[RescueDaneMom]

Here are some more…

Canine Caviar Open Sky Grain Free Duck and Chick Pea Dry Dog Food
INGREDIENTS: Duck Meal, Chickpea, Duck Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Menhaden Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Culture, Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Culture, Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Culture, Sun-Cured Kelp, FOS (prebiotic), Calcium Proteinate, Sodium Chloride, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Parsley, Fenugreek, Peppermint, Taurine, Selenium, Whole Clove Garlic, Vitamin E, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin C, Papaya, Rose Hips, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Niacin, Beta-Carotene, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin D3, Biotin, Vitamin A, Riboflavin, Vitamin B-12, Potassium Proteinate, Folic Acid.

Canine Caviar Wild Ocean Grain Free Holistic Herring and Split Pea Dry Dog Food
INGREDIENTS: Herring Meal, Split Peas, Borage Oil, Menhaden Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Sun-Cured Alfalfa, Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Culture, Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Culture, Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Culture, Sun-Cured Kelp, FOS (prebiotic), Sodium Chloride, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Parsley, Fenugreek, Peppermint, Taurine, Selenium, Whole Clove Garlic, Vitamin E, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin C, Papaya, Rose Hips, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Niacin, Beta-Carotene, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin D3, Biotin, Vitamin A, Riboflavin, Vitamin B-12, Potassium Proteinate, Folic Acid.

Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Duck Meal Dry Dog Food
INGREDIENTS: Duck Meal, Tapioca, Peas, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Natural Flavor, Montmorillonite Clay, Coconut Oil, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Vitamins (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Panthothenate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite), Choline Chloride, Green Tea Extract, Rosemary Extract.

Great Life Dr E’s Limited Ingredient Grain Free Duck Dry Dog Food
INGREDIENTS: US Duck, Tapioca, Yams, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Blueberries, Freeze Dried New Zealand Mussel, Freeze Dried Kale Sprouts, Freeze Dried Red Clover Sprouts, Inulin, Enzymes (Amylase, Protease, Cellulase, Pectinase, Lipase, Phytase, Xylanese, Hemicellulase, Alpha-galactosidase, Invertase) Probiotics in a micro-encapsulated complex (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated,Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Vitamins (Dl-methione, Lecithin, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamone Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid) Minerals (Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate, Selenium), Wild Salmon Oil

Great Life Dr E’s Limited Ingredient Grain Free Buffalo Dry Dog Food
INGREDIENTS: US Buffalo, Tapioca, Yams, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Blueberries, Freeze Dried Buffalo Liver, Freeze Dried Kale Sprouts, Freeze Dried Red Clover Sprouts, Inulin, Enzymes (Amylase, Protease, Cellulase, Pectinase, Lipase, Phytase, Xylanese, Hemicellulase, Alpha-galactosidase, Invertase) Probiotics in a micro-encapsulated complex (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated,Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Vitamins (Dl-methione, Lecithin, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamone Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid) Minerals (Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate, Selenium), Wild Salmon Oil

Castor and Pollux Ultramix Grain Free Duck Sweet Potatoes and Whole Peas Dry Dog Food
INGREDIENTS: DEBONED DUCK, TURKEY MEAL, LAMB MEAL, SALMON MEAL (SOURCE OF OMEGA 3 FATTY ACIDS), SWEET POTATO, PEAS,
POTATO, DUCK FAT (PRESERVED WITH MIXED TOCOPHEROLS), POTATO PROTEIN, PEA PROTEIN, NATURAL FLAVOR, BANANAS, CARROTS, APPLES, CRANBERRIES, BLUEBERRIES, ORGANIC ALFALFA, SALMON OIL, MINERALS (SALT, ZINC AMINO ACID COMPLEX, ZINC SULFATE, IRON AMINO ACID COMPLEX, MANGANESE AMINO ACID COMPLEX, COPPER AMINO ACID COMPLEX, POTASSIUM IODIDE, COBALT AMINO ACID COMPLEX, SODIUM SELENITE), VITAMINS (CHOLINE CHLORIDE, VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, D-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, VITAMIN D3, NIACIN, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT, BIOTIN, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, FOLIC ACID, THIAMINE MONONITRATE), DRIED CHICORY ROOT, YUCCA SCHIDIGERA EXTRACT, DRIED LACTOBACILLUS PLANTARUM FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED LACTOBACILLUS CASEI FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED ENTEROCOCCUS FAECIUM FERMENTATION PRODUCT, DRIED LACTOBACILLUS ACIDOPHILUS FERMENTATION PRODUCT, ROSEMARY EXTRACT

Unfortunately, the restrictions you have limits your choices. The foods I have posted I found through a quick search on petflow.com for grain-free foods. I looked at the descriptions and ingredients. Most times if one formula in a line has flax or eggs in it then the rest do too (though not all the time). This is by no means an exhaustive list but just the ones I found quickly that I would feed if I were in your position. Again, I hope this is helpful. Chicken-free, grain-free, yeast-free, flaxseed-free foods DO exist but they are all on the pricey side and may be costly to feed to several big dogs. If you aren’t opposed, it might be cheaper to make a homemade diet that you would have complete control over the ingredients.

[Beach Dog]

Hello. I live on an island in the Caribbean, and have a 4 year old, 75lb, female mutt. Two days ago she was diagnosed positive for heartworm…and yes, I cried. Luckily, she is in the early stages with no obvious symptoms of coughing, weight loss etc. I sought the advice of different vets and have been presented with 3 options. (1.) Do the 2 day adulticide treatment. (2.) Do a split treatment, where one dosage is injected and then a second and final dosage is given 3weeks after. (3.) Give her heartworm ‘preventative’ medicine over the next year, and assess if that reduces the quantity of adult worms present. While I make my decision, we started her on the “Pet Life Endolav Plus” pills. (She had not been given any heartworm pills prior).The pills were also given to my other dog, which is a 5 month old male mastiff. So my questions are:

1. Which option is the safest, while being most effective (I’ve gotten different responses from different vets).

2. For those living in climates where mosquitoes thrive all year round, what are the best heartworm preventative medicines and also methods? (I’ve noticed comments on this forum that advise against topical bug repellents, but mosquitoes are rampant here.)

3. Is there anything I can do to help prep my dog for treatment? Whether through addition of vitamins or a special diet? She currently doesn’t take any supplements. She was rescued as a puppy, and for the past 3 years has been fed Alpo/Pedigree/Beneful along with occasional cooked meals of rice and meat. I wasn’t aware this was potentially bad until recently, and have luckily found someone on island that distributes Sportsmix, ProPac and Earthborn Holistic Primitive. I went with the propac because it had lower calcium levels, which is seemingly better for the puppy. (Getting foods rated higher than 2 star here is challenging). I’ve started cooking meats and muscles to add to the kibble, and when I have the time on the weekend I cook full meals, including organs. (Still experimenting, as this is still new to me, having only just ditched the supermarket brands a month ago).

Grateful for any advice. She’s honestly the sweetest dog we’ve ever owned, and I badly want her to survive this. I would hate to have rescued her, only to have this as her fate. I also want to ensure that the 5 month old remains healthy.

[theBCnut]

Even when I’m doing 20% I want the calcium/phosphorus at least close to balanced and I still add a vit E stabilized fish oil or oily fish.

For a dog that is entrenched in the habit of gulping it’s food, I would not feed whole bones, unless it was in something that was too big for the dog to swallow it. I would use grinds or premixes and boneless meats. That being said, I believe a dog can be trained to eat properly, but you have to be willing to take the time.

[RescueDaneMom]

Soprano1-

I am by no means an expert. I would suggest checking out the dogaware website at dogaware.com/health/kidney.html. I haven’t figured out how to post links yet so bear with me.

According to my research on dogaware, dogs with early stage kidney disease only need slight diet modifications. The following text is copied from the website:
“Early Renal Insufficiency: In general, creatinine values up to about 2.0 (177 µmol/L) are indicative of mild, or early stage, kidney disease (or early renal insufficiency, as my vet terms it). In cases like these, it may still help to make dietary modifications to reduce phosphorus if blood phosphorus level is above 4.5, but these reductions do not need to be as drastic as when the values are higher, and it is probably not necessary to do other treatments at this stage, such as sub-q fluids (unless your dog is drinking so much that she is having trouble staying hydrated, such as getting up during the night to drink). Adding calcium to each meal if you are feeding a home made diet (to act as a phosphorus binder) would be advisable, and possibly antacids, particularly if your dog is showing any signs of inappetence or gastric problems. I would also give fish oil supplements (body oil, NOT liver oil), at the rate of 1,000 mg (300 mg combined DHA and EPA) per 10 lbs of body weight, along with Vitamin E (50, 100 or 200 IU for small, medium and large dogs), and discontinue any Vitamin A and D supplements (including cod liver oil) added to commercial foods. Additional recommended supplements include a B-complex vitamin and CoQ10, which may be beneficial for dogs with kidney disease.”

There is a table on the website for commercial foods with phosphorous amounts listed. There is only one blue buffalo food on there and it has too much phosphorous. See dogaware.com/health/kidneynonprescription.html

I looked up your previous food (Purina NF) on the same site. It says that food is for Late Stage Kidney Disease. The protein content is 15.9% on a dry matter basis. There are prescription diets that are better suited to Early Stage Kidney Disease. I don’t know why your vet wouldn’t have put your dog on one of those. I think Patty was right and the food was doing more harm than good in your case.

You report that your dog is doing well on Blue right now and you have a recheck in November. If it were me, I would continue to feed Blue and see what her values are at the recheck. If her creatinine and BUN are slightly elevated, I would consider switching to one of the foods on the list of non-prescription foods. My choice would be the Wellness Complete Health Super5Mix Chicken Recipe and/or Wellness Complete Health Super5Mix Whitefish & Sweet Potato.

I hope this is helpful. Again, I would really recommend checking out the dogaware site. There is so much information available. I would read through it before going to your recheck in November so you can be prepared.

[S. Monique]

SCROLL TO BOTTOM FOR NUTRITION INFO

Activa is a dog food brand manufactured in El Paso, TX and sold in that area. I’m looking for a more affordable grain free dog food and according to the website their brand is comparable to high end brands. It claims it is lower in price only because it “cuts out the middle man”. Right now my 1yr old (40lb) small pit mix is on BB Wilderness.

I would appreciate a more informed person’s opinion on their grain free line. The link below directs you to their list of formulas. Click on a formula and ingredients as well as a complete nutritional analysis is provided for review.
http://www.petsbarn.com/store/#!/~/category/id=3996285&offset=0&sort=normal

(Also it would be awesome for this food line to have official review article on the website! Anyone know how I can suggest that?)

Here is direct information of the formula I’m considering. Thank you! 🙂

Activa Brand Dog Food
Grain Free Turkey & Potato Formula

Ingredients: Turkey meal, dried potatoes, potato flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), dried beet pulp, flaxseed, natural flavor, sunflower oil, salt, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid), minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, calcium carbonate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, iron amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, zinc amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate, ethylenediamine dihydriodide), choline chloride, mixed tocopherols, taurine, rosemary extract.

Guaranteed Analysis
Protein 25.0% min
Fat 14.0% min
Fiber 5.0% max
Moisture 12.0% max
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.28% min
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.53% min

• This topic was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by S. Monique.
• This topic was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by S. Monique.

[koa’smom]

Sippmanir, Thank you for the link, but I already have seen it and that is what prompted me to switch to Wellness Core Puppy, but now I’m faced with an issue that, according to the vet, is requiring me to feed a low calcium AND low protein food. I’m just not sure what to feed because most foods have protein content of 30% or more, even the all life stages food. Earthborn Meadow Feast states no less than 26% protein , but what does that really mean? To me it means that it it is likely higher than 26%.

Another thing I find confusing is the protein content in the raw foods. For example, under the food analyisis of Primal Raw frozen, it gives a dried protein content of 47% and a protein content of 15%. What do I go by? I don’t know how to interpret that.

Sorry for all the questions, but I just want to get my dog kn the best food possible ASAP.

[karink]

On your list provided of dog food, (unsure if it applies to Large Breed Puppies), I found
Blackwood, Grain Free Salmon (Puppy to Adult Formula) as well as Annamaet Salcha. Are either of these good for large breed puppies? Also, don’t see the calcium/phosphorus/protein listed on the Blackwood food. If they work, would prefer the Blackwood because of the lower protein level 28%. Please help!!!

[K6RBS]

Hills SD Killed our pug Abigail.

5 years old, history of bladder stones.
Started with a UTI, vet x-rayed her, put her on antibiotics and Hills SD (to dissolve the struvite stones). I gradually weaned her on to the SD (took a week). In the mean time the vet got the urinalysis tests back and the stones turned out to be calcium oxylate (?sp). I had 2 cans of SD left so we decided to leave her on it for a couple more days.
Next morning she is lethargic, vomiting and off her food.
She died a horrible death 5 days later due to pancreatitis followed by other organ failure caused by the fat content in the SD. I pleaded with Hills to put a warning on their cans and send a strong warning to the vets – they refused. Search the web – Abigail is not the first victim of Hills SD Dog food.

https://www.facebook.com/abigail.pugsly

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by K6RBS. Reason: Added URL to Abby's FB page
• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by K6RBS.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi RescueDaneMom –

There’s no need to add additional muscle meat to Primal grinds – all have balanced C:P ratios except for the beef and buffalo which actually have more phosphorus than calcium and thus should be fed with some RMBs. You would want to add vitamin e, vitamin d (such as cod liver oil), omega 3′ and a whole food supplement. I would also recommend feeding some canned oysters once or twice a week (high in zinc and selenium) and some ground nuts or seeds (like sunflower seeds or pumpkin seeds) a few times a week (high in manganese). Yogurt or kefir is rich in probiotics and can make a good addition as well. Cod liver oil is rich in vitamin a but there’s really no need to worry about vitamin a levels – if the dog is getting liver (which it will be if its eating the grinds) and fruits/vegetables it will be getting plenty of vitamin a. Also keep in mind that the vitamin d requirements are 500 IU per kg (or approx. (227 IU per pound) on a dry matter basis – one lb. of raw food will provide around 0.3 lb. dry matter. Therefore, you would need around 68 IU per pound of raw food (minimum). I give my girls each a capsule of Carlson Cod Liver oil daily which has 250 IU vitamin d per capsule – they also get a some lower levels from beef liver, eggs, dairy. A glandular isn’t necessary, I think it can be beneficial though.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for this wonderful thread, most of all Hound Dog Mom for her great knowledge, research, and unbiased advice.
I have brought home a puppy from the rescue, it looks to be a lab/greyhound mix, it might become large, it might turn out to be medium, but I opted for the safe bet and I am feeding it low calcium.
I have recently moved to America from the Netherlands, and fed my GSD raw, but over there I can go to the butchers and get cuts and special dog-food easily. Here I have to find out anew where to go and what to buy. But I am impressed with the many different brands of quality dog food.
And tripe in a can! Brilliant!

I have learnt so much on this thread! I have read everything and printed HDM’s list so I have no questions, just:
Thank you all very much! Especially Hound Dog Mum.

[julez4you]

Help! My 4 month old GD pup is off to a bit of a rocky health start and I need some advice. When I brought him home from the breeder he had just finished his 1course of antibiotic from a case of puppy acne. He was being fed Purina- so my 1st objective was to get him switched over to a better food- but given my experience with Danes and their sometimes sensitive tummies- I played it safe and switched him to GO! which has acceptable calcium levels but is not very high in protein.

About 1 week after he came home he had a horrible episode of blood in his stool- so vet put him on Metronidazole and bland diet while tests came back. Turns out he had worms (dont recall which one but it was long and white when it came out in stool- so she treated him with dewormer.)

During this this time I was also trying to transition him to a higher protein food slowly and tried adding in HK Love or high meat cans. Both ended up producing loose stools even in small quantities, so I decided to try and do a slow switch to a higher protein kibble such as Canine Caviar. After 2days of adding in only a little bit of the new kibble (1/4 of overall quantity) it was like a water hose. At first I thought maybe it was just something in the formula- so I tried NV LID Turkey (again- only tiny amount) and he had nonstop diarrhea that brought us back to the vet and once again, back on Metronidazole and bland diet.

At this point I’m petrified to try anything new in his diet. He’s currently on straight GO! Duck formula and daily probiotic and enzymes. I eventually want to switch him to raw- but with my older dog 100% raw fed, the expense of having a growing Dane pup on raw too is a bit much.

2 weeks ago, he also broke out with a bad skin infection around his genitals- red, pussy, scabby bumps which I’m sure are the end result of his multiple immune suppressant treatments- and fearful at the thought of yet another antibiotic treatment, I’m trying to treat with medicated shampoo at the moment.

I also want to help boost his immune and digestive health more and have a great organic canine wellness blend from a local herbalist, but since I noticed that one of its benefits is joint/ mobility and it has horsetail and oat straw in it- now I’m wondering if I need to be concerned about added calcium this my be contributing? Any thoughts on whether or not I should continue giving it to him?

Also- if you have any tips on diet or skin problems- I’m all ears. I’m trying to do the best for him but seems that for every good intended actin I try to take- I just end up causing him more problems. 🙁

And at 4 months he still hasn’t had his 3rd distemper or rabbies vac because he’s had something chronically going on since.

Please help! Julie and Bentley

[VictorR]

I have been using their Miracle Pack probiotics/enzymes and Spectrin For Dogs liquid vitamins on both my dogs for over a year now with terrific results.

I initially got the probiotics/enzymes for my 12 year old Pit Bull who had 9 months of recurring diarrhea from having been on antibiotics for 2 months as the result of an infection. It seemed like she couldn’t digest any kibble, no matter how expensive. I then moved her to steamed rice/sweet potato and grilled chicken or canned tuna. Even that eventually stopped working. Eating just white rice and chicken, he stool was runny and orange.

Within 2 weeks of adding Nusenta’s products to her food, she was back to normal. I now feed her Sojos grain-free dog food mix with cooked ground hamburger or turkey for a more complete source of nutrients. Sojos is a fantastic product, nothing but freeze dried vegetables and fruit and a few other natural ingredients to aid health:
Ingredients:
sweet potato, carrots, broccoli, celery, apples, whole egg, cranberries, tricalcium phosphate, flax meal, parsley leaf, carob powder, dried kelp, dried alfalfa, ginger root, garlic, sunflower oil, vitamin D3

[apriliamille]

this is hound dog moms calculation just saying so it dont look like im stealing credit
saved one of her posts on her calculations into a notepad doc on my computer

To calculate grams of calcium per 1,000 kcal. do the following:
1) Calculate grams of calcium per kilogram – Multiply the actual percent calcium by 1,000 grams (it’s very important that you obtain the actual level of calcium from the company, don’t use the minimum stated on the bag as foods often contain much more than the stated minimum).
2) Divide grams of calcium per kilogram by calories per kilogram (calories per kilogram can generally be found on the product packaging or website).
3) Multiply the grams of calcium per calorie (obtained in step 2) by 1,000 calories.

For example, if a food states that the actual level of calcium is 1.2% and there are 3,500 calories per kilogram: 1,000 grams X 0.012 = 12 grams of calcium per kilogram. 12 grams of calcium per kilogram/3,500 calories per kilogram = 0.00343 grams of calcium per calorie. 0.00343 grams of calcium per calorie X 1,000 calories = 3.43 grams of calcium per 1,000 calories.

I evaluated the Taste of the Wild Formulas when I created the list and none had appropriate calcium levels for large or giant breed growth.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Whitney –

I’m not sure if the calcium levels in 4Health Grain-Free or Pure Balance are okay or not – I didn’t look into these foods because they’re only rated 3.5 stars and therefore didn’t meet the criteria of my list. So if you want to feed these I would suggest contacting the companies to obtain the calcium levels. If she’s still a pup and already experiencing pain I would discuss this with your vet – while it could be an injury it is likely Pano or severe HD (it would have to be pretty severe for the dog to be showing symptoms at such a young age). I would recommend supplementing with some natural anti-inflammatories such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric (curcumin), bromelain, omega 3’s, tart cherry, or white willow and/or high doses of omega 3’s. Now may also be a good time to start a joint maintenance supplement such as glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hyaluronic acid, green lipped mussel and/or esterified fatty acids. I’d also suggest avoiding grains entirely as grains are inflammatory.

[pugmomsandy]

“What are good options to implement (such as veggies and fruits)?”

Toppers can be scrambled egg, sardines, raw meat, canned food, whatever you like it to be but the general rule is to not use more than 20% as a topper and try to use species appropriate toppers. As for veggies or fruit, use these in small amounts as dogs don’t need too much of them but they do contain nutrients and antioxidants, etc. Fruit has a lot of sugar so I don’t use much. When I make a homemade batch of food I don’t use more than 5% fruits, and 20% veggies. And actually my last batch of food, I didn’t put in any veg/fruit.

“What is the ratios?”

When talking about ratios, a couple things come to mind. First, the calcium to phosphorus ratio is important for large breed puppies. This affects their bone growth. Secondly, the prey model diet ratio of 80/10/10 of meat/bone/organs. Some recipe books have varying ratios.

“Generally how many times a day do people feed their kids?”

I feed twice a day, occasionally once a day. Some will fast their dogs one day a week.

“Are dairy products like cheese bad for dogs?”

It depends. If your dog is lactose intolerant, then yes. If it’s cheese from a cow that had antibiotics and growth hormones, yes it’s bad. I suggest a goat product like goat milk or goat milk kefir or cow product that came from free range cows that did not receive antibiotics or growth hormones. Products like full fat, no artificial sweeteners or colors yogurt has live cultures of beneficial organisms so it can help some dogs with digestive problems. Cottage cheese can be a good source of protein and is low in lactose (I think).

“What is the advantages of “bully bones/or marrow bones” vs rawhide bones?”

Rawhides are hard to digest and can cause blockages and the way they are processed can be problematic. Sometimes chemicals are used. And I think many of them come from China. Marrow bones aren’t processed and once the marrow has been taken care of, you can reuse the bone by stuffing it with something else and freezing it and giving it as a treat. Bully sticks can cause blockages too if they are gulped down. I usually take them away when they get small but gnawing on them helps clean the teeth. Cow hoof is another item that my dogs like to gnaw on.

[Bill Rogan]

Hello!!! Beagleowner? Hope you feel better than before because your dog is gradually progressed.

You should bring diversification in you dog food menu. You should ensure that the diet you feed meets your dog’s requirements. It’s important that the diet you feed your dog is “complete and balanced,” meaning it meets all of your dog’s nutritional needs. It is not important, however, that every meal would be completed and balanced, unless you feed the same meal every day with little or no variation.

Following are the guidelines for feeding a raw or cooked homemade diet to get a healthy dog. No single type of food, such as chicken, should ever make up more than half the diet.

You should keep the followings in your consideration while cooking your dog food. Proper balanced dog food includes:

Meat and other Animal Products:

Raw meaty bones (optional)
Boneless meat
Fish
Organs
Eggs
Dairy

Fruits and Vegetables:

Starchy vegetables
Leafy green and other non-starchy vegetables
Fruits
Grains

Supplements:

Calcium
Oils
Fish oil
Cod liver oil
Plant Oils

Other Vitamins and Minerals:

Vitamin E
Iodine
Green blends

Hopefully you be benefited. Best of luck of you with your beloved dog.

[MandySim]

My husband and I suddenly lost our 2 Labrador Retrievers this summer within a week of each other in July 2013. Both were healthy 9 year old male labs. Our yellow lab was seen eating wild mushrooms on a walk on a Tuesday near our home in Massachusetts. This was the same day that my husband opened a new bag of his Royal Canin Renal MP Modified dog food. My dog had minor kidney damage and was recommended this low protein food by out vet this past spring. By Wednesday, our yellow lab was acting lethargic and starting throwing up his food. We thought that it was the mushroom he ate, so we were monitoring him thinking it just upset his stomach. On Thursday he was extremely lethargic and started having seizures. We took him to the vet straight away who immediately sent us to the local animal hospital since his liver and pancreas were failing. We had him treated with everything the vets recommended and gave him 2 rounds of blood transfusions to try and flush out the toxins. He did not respond at all to any of the treatments and was euthanized Friday evening. With broken hearts and many tears, we simply thought this was mushroom poisoning.

Our chocolate lab was home being his normal energetic and crazy self! On Sunday, we combined the rest of the Royal Canin food with our chocolate lab’s Eukanuba dog food. On Monday evening, our chocolate lab threw up his food. On Tuesday morning, our food obsessed dog did not eat his food (1/2 Royal Canin, ½ Eukanuba). We thought that perhaps he realized our yellow lab was not coming home and he had a case of doggy depression. We added some ketchup to his food to make it more fun for him to eat. He finally ate it late Tuesday night. We also noticed him being a little sad. Again, figuring it was just him mourning his “brother”. We said if he threw up the food, we would take him to the vet to be checked out. Sure enough, Wednesday morning he threw up the food and did not touch his breakfast. We went straight to the vet who said his kidneys were failing. We are now back at the animal hospital who was doing everything they could to save his life. His kidneys simply could not recover and all the IVs they were giving him were not coming back out of his system. He was euthanized early Thursday morning.

We had the vets do an autopsy and toxicology screening to see what happened to him. We also called Royal Canin right away since we knew both dogs ate that food. We never saw our chocolate lab eat a mushroom, he was never interested in them. The autopsy and toxicology screenings came back with normal levels for everything they tested for – viruses, bacteria, heavy metals, anti-freeze, all of the “normal” tests they run on dogs were all within normal limits. The only thing higher than normal was his calcium levels. Our vet said this is something they see with the anti-freeze, but they confirmed again it was not that. Royal Canin said they did their own test of the dog food which was also normal for everything. We are looking at having the food tested ourselves.

Everything shows that it was some kind of toxin that killed our dogs – mushroom, food, something else? Has anyone heard of anything similar happening with their dog or a friend’s dog dying unexpectedly? We are just trying to see if there are any other cases out there to try and help us figure out what happened to our canine companions and to make sure it does not happen to other animals if we can help it.

[beagleowner]

Hi Hound Dog Mom. Need some input. Still making Henry’s food. We switched to ground turkey and read that the ratio between protein and vegetables should be 2 to 1. We are mixing ground turkey, carrots, sweet potatoes, frozen peas, kale 3 eggs with shells, apples and spinach, baking it in a slow oven for 90 minutes. We make enough for 3 was and freeze weekly amounts. We do the 2 parts turkey to 1 part combined vegetables, feed 1capsule of Aller G-3 bought and suggested by our vet. It is 1000 mg fish oil, o.1moisture, 400 iu vitamin A, 100 iu vitamin D3, 4 iu Vitamin E. we feed 2 cups a day, estimating caloric intake of 750 to 800 cal/day. We also give him 2 Gkucosamine chewables a day which provides 500 mg Glucosamine, 200 mg Chondrotin Sulfate, 100 mg MSM, 50 mg Vitamin C, and 5 mg Manganese. It does have inactive ingredients Brewers dried yeast, diacalcium phosphate, glycerin,iron oxide, magnesium sterate, silicon dioxide and steric acid.

Henry has lost 3 lbs over the past 5 mos. we weigh him at the vet every month. he is now at 45 lb and the vet would like to see him close to 40.

Henry has one very large lipoma which I had mentioned in a previous post (about melon size) and another smaller (baseball) one. I discovered a site called Pawhealer out of California and their product Dissolve made with various herbs. They also on my next order created a Custom Dissolve. He got 3/4 tsp twice a day. The vet measured his lipomas when we started the herbs. When he measured them at our last visit they were slightly smaller and they are now a soft mass. The vet said that something was working, either the Dissolve, or the food, or a combination of both. He is not on Dissolve any longer because Pawhealer suggested discontinuing the Dissolve for now and suggested a kidney formula. My husband didn’t feel comfortable with this and so we did not order.

Bottom line. Henry is losing weight, and the lipomas are decreasing very gradually. But I am wondering if I should again begin the herbs. You are so very knowledgeable I wanted to get your thoughts and opinion. There are so many sites that address diet and lipomas it makes your head spin. Sorry for this looooong post but I wanted to give a full history so you could offer feedback. Thanks for all your knowledge.

[jamie_aa]

Hi there.

would you recommend a lower calorie diet for my Saint Bernard? I will be getting her in 4 weeks and she will be 8 weeks old. I am looking between two dog foods, and one has 328 kcal/cup and the other has 409 kcal/cup. I have done the calculation on calcium and they both are 2.8 per 1,000 kcal which i like, but now its just deciding on if she needs those extra calories or not??

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Little Pea –

While I can’t say that oatmeal, fruit, legumes and wheat germ would be my first choice of foods to feed a dog, if this is what you want to stick with because it’s working then I would suggest adding a multivitamin daily. A human one-a-day (low calcium or calcium free) multi would be fine – 1/4 capsule for small dogs, 1/2 capsule for medium dogs, 3/4 capsule for large dogs, 1 capsule for large dogs (assuming the human dose is one capsule). Oats and legumes do have a skewed calcium to phosphorus ratio (more phosphorus than calcium) and if they’re comprising a large portion of the diet the ratio (which should be between 1:1 and 2:1 calcium to phosphorus will be off) you will want to add about 200 mg. calcium per cup of legumes or oats fed. I would also suggest trying quinoa (sprouted, if you can get it) in place of the oatmeal – it has a more favorable amino acid profile.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Little Pea –

While I can’t say that I oatmeal, fruit, legumes and wheat germ would be my first choice of foods to feed a dog, if this is what you want to stick with because it’s working and I would suggest adding a multivitamin daily. A human one-a-day (low calcium or calcium free) multi would be fine – 1/4 capsule for small dogs, 1/2 capsule for medium dogs, 3/4 capsule for large dogs, 1 capsule for large dogs (assuming the human dose is one capsule). Oats and legumes do have a skewed calcium to phosphorus ratio (more phosphorus than calcium) and if they’re comprising a large portion of the diet the ratio (which should be between 1:1 and 2:1 calcium to phosphorus will be off). You will want to add about 200 mg. calcium per cup of legumes or oats fed. I would also suggest trying quinoa (sprouted, if you can get it) in place of the oatmeal – it has a more favorable amino acid profile.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe’s Dad –

The calcium percentages listed on the website/package are lower than what I stated because websites an packaging typically (as is the case with Earthborn) state the guanteed minimum level of calcium (this is why it says “min”) – not the actual level of calcium or maximum which is what is important. The actual level is often quite a bit higher than the minimum. For all the foods on my list I contacted the companies directly to obtain the actual amount of calcium (from lab analysis).

It’s not necessary for a canned (or dry food) to be labeled for large breed puppies – it just needs to have appropriate calcium levels and be approved for growth/als. If you’re just using the canned food as a topper (20% or less of the diet) I wouldn’t worry about calcium levels.

Weruva is a great, high quality food. I believe their dog formulas are approved for adult maintenance only – this is fine if you’re just using the canned as a topper but it wouldn’t be appropriate as a sole diet for a puppy.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Aussie Mom –

Homemade raw is actually much cheaper than pre-made raw. I spend just under $200 a month to feed my girls a homemade raw diet – for comparative purposes it would cost me nearly $800 per month to feed Darwin’s (based on the average cost of all of their formulas). There are many ways to keep costs low when feeding a homemade raw diet: 1) Utilize raw meaty bones (chicken backs, turkey necks, etc.) – they are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat and if fed in appropriate quantities will eliminate the need for a calcium supplement; 2) Use heart, gizzards and green tripe for the muscle meat component of the diet – these items are cheap and nutritious, dogs have no need for expensive cuts of meat such as boneless skinless chicken breast or beef sirloin; 3) Buy in bulk. I purchase my meat from a wholesaler that supplies restaurants and grocery stores – nearly every item I buy is under $1 per pound; 4) Purchase supplements from a human nutritional store, in bulk when possible – this is much cheaper than buying supplements marketed towards pets. I purchase all supplements for both myself and my dog from Swanson’s – best prices I’ve seen. I make my own green supplement by purchasing the ingredients I want in 1 lb. bags and combining them.

Hare Today is great – I do purchase a few things from there (mostly Green Tripe). Their products are not human grade as they contain things like green tripe, ground bone, fur/feathers (for whole prey grinds) that are not suitable for human consumption (but very nutritious for animals) and the products aren’t processed in a human food facility. Using Hare Today grinds may be slightly cheaper than pre-made raw but if you really want to cut costs you need to do it from scratch – many butchers will sell RMBs and offal cheaply as they’re not desirable for humans or hook up with a supplier like I did.

If you’re interested in homemade raw I would highly recommend purchasing “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. It’s wonderful book for beginners and includes AAFCO compliant recipes that are easy to make and utilize easy to find and cheap ingredients. Dogaware(dot)com is also a great online resource.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi SandyandMila –

As long as you’re following the instructions on the box (which I believe is 1:1 – 2:1 boneless meat to Preference) the calcium to phosphorus ratio will be balanced.

[kobe]

HI,

I am a new member and need advice on my bernese mountain dog pup in NYC
unfortunately, he was sent to me from he west coast with giardia intestinal infection–the good news is that after multiple courses of metronidazole and fenbendazole,i think this parasite is gone—the pup is 5 months old this week–i am starting to slowly transition him off the Hills I AND D—i was recommended the natures variety-large breed puppy kibble which i have been adding slowly—–BUT THE COMMENTS I HAVE READ ON THIS FOOD AND COMPANY ON THIS WEBSITE HAVE NOT BEEN THAT POSITIVE!!!

I KNOW I NEED to limit the calcium but i am confused by what i should be feeding him—regular kibble vs raw food vs ziwipeak?

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!

[Duke The Boxer]

Okay hound dog mom. Thank you for your response. I was talking to dr Tim and he said it was okay for puppies and it had a pretty low calcium %. I just got in the mail today wellness core puppy formula and I will follow up in a couple weeks to say how duke responds to the food. One question I have is that he has been kind of itchy lately even though he has no flees or ticks; I also saw some scratch marks under his arm from him scratching himself, can the dryness of his skin be because of the chicken based nutro that I have been feeding him?

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI k9cancer –

Most dogs will overeat if given the chance – especially when they’re being fed a highly palatable diet (such as a raw diet). It’s very important to keep large and giant breed puppies lean during the growth phase as excess weight can increase the chances that the pup will develop an orthopedic condition. If his weight looks good do not feed him more. Just adjust his portions based on his weight – feed more if he looks too thin, less if he looks to heavy and keep portions as they are if his weight is healthy. The product packages are a good starting point for determining serving size but they aren’t always accurate – this is why it’s important to be constantly evaluating body condition. If he gets diarrhea again I’d recommend adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and supplementing with probiotics, if he’s fine now you could also start adding a little plain yogurt or kefir to his meals daily to start building his gut strength. If you want to provide him with food that has a “crunchy” texture for his enjoyment I’d recommend opting for raw meaty bones rather than kibble. The raw meaty bones will provide him with crunching a chewing pleasure as well as dental benefits – you may also find that he feels more satisfied after eating RMBs. You could replace a few meals a week with RMBs such as turkey necks or chicken backs. You can feed the RMBs with a bit of boneless meat or whole offal (hearts, gizzards, livers, etc.) to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio.

[Lagotto]

Hi Shawna, my 10 weeks old Lagotto has just been diagnosed with serious kidneys problems her BUN is way off chart her urine is almost as clear as water . She drinks over a liter of water a day. I have her for 21/2 weeks she hardly gains any weight. She is taller but very thin. The breeder offered to take her back and put her down. Apart from excessive drinking and urinating and not put on weight she is full of energy and really playful.I decided to keep her,the vet didn’t recommend any diet plan for her just told her to let she eats normal food, she eats puppies musli mix with raw met and let nature take it course. Her musli comprise of roll oats, dehydrate pea, carrot, bone meal plus all essential vitamins and minerals. Since she has been diagnosed I stop feeding her those food and go on low protein, low phosphorus, low sodium,. She got her appetite back with the meal I made which is 1 cup cooked white rice with one whole egg, two eggs whites, a spoonful of low fat ground beef. Cook in 1 Tb coconut oil. I sprinkle one capsule of fish oil, and grind 900mg of calcium carbonate to it. She has been eating this food for 3 days. Her weight is up for almost 200 g. I am not sure this diet is good enough for her growth. I ask the vet or phosphorus binder and start to sprinkle on her food. The vet now recommend pediatric junior digest & dental 29. I mixed a little of the dry food into home cooked . Her water intake is almost double her usual high intake. Your Audrey story is really inspiring . What do you feed Audrey? Home cooked or dry food.what is your strategy with Toilet train?

Many thanks, Lagotto

[Anonymous]

I have just had similar experiences as that on page 2 of the thread where Swissy Mix talks about her Bernese/Greater Swiss mix throwing up on Taste of the Wild puppy food. I have an almost 8 month old Bernese male who is right around 80 lbs. We got him at 8 weeks old and started him on Blue Buffalo and then as I researched how to feed larger breed dogs, I decided to switch him to TOTW. They have puppy formulas now that are 1.4% calcium / 1.0% phosphorus, which I thought was in line with what he needed. I’ve been alternating between the 2 varieties now for around 4 or 5 months without any issues.

As of the last 3 days though, Walter has also thrown up his food 3 separate times right after eating. I tend to think it is because the kibble is too small for him and he’s not chewing like he needs to. The end result of his vomiting makes it clear that he doesn’t need to bother chewing his food. I tried feeding him in a larger, more shallow bowl so he can’t inhale and we have stopped feeding him right after he comes in the house and is all hot. I thought the problem might be a combination of being too hot, eating too fast, not chewing enough. However, this morning right after he woke up he did it, so I guess it is either just the not chewing issue or the food itself. I don’t think it is a puppy issue, because he seems perfectly fine otherwise.

So my questions are as follows:

1. Does anyone know of a good food that has larger bites and still stays in the recommended ranges of cal/phosphorus? I guess it may have to be an all life stage or adult formula. I hate to be a stickler on price, but I feel like I’m already spending a lot on what he is on to make sure his food is higher quality, so I’d like to stay in line with TOTW, which is about $50 / 30 lb. bag.

2. How do you tell proper weight of a dog as hairy as a BMD? His weight is right in line with what he’s always averaged (about 10 lbs. / month), but he has such long, wavy hair, it struggle to tell if I’m feeding him enough or too much. I’ve been staying within the guidelines recommended on the bag, but it’s kind of hard to tell for sure. Any tips?

3. Any suggestions for getting him to slow down on his eating? He doesn’t have to compete with any other dogs, so there’s really no need for him to eat like he does.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi neezerfan –

Once thawed raw food should be used within 3 days. I’m only aware of two pre-mixes designed to balance a bone inclusive diet – one is the whole carcass formula sold by Feline Instincts and the other is CarnivoreRAW without Calcium sold by Young Again Pet Food. A much cheaper route would be to just add a low calcium or calcium free human multi-vitamin, some veggies (or a fiber supplement) and omega 3’s. You could also learn to balance a recipe completely from scratch with whole foods (this is what I do) but it’s a bit more time intensive and takes a bit of research. Rabbit is high in bone (as are most smaller prey animals) but the calcium to phosphorus ratio is still balanced so it’s not necessary to add more meat. If you find that your dog is constipated you can certainly add more more (high levels of bone can cause constipation for some dogs) but I honestly don’t think it will be an issue. The rabbit heads should be fine for your dog, you’ll have to try them out and see though.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi gsdmommy89 –

Good question. If you read the criteria at the beginning of the list you’ll notice that I’ve included all appropriate foods that are rated at least 4 stars. The two Victor formulas you mentioned are rated 4 stars. I personally wouldn’t feed them to my dogs due to the low protein content. I’d also prefer to see someone feed a higher protein food to their pup. However, if I were to have only included 5 star foods on the list (the only foods that would have protein levels high enough for my preferences) there wouldn’t have been enough options and it could also be prohibitive for those on a budget. The 4 star foods listed with lower protein levels are by no means bad foods, I would just prefer more protein.

I prefer the grain-free Earthborn formulas over the grain-inclusive. The puppy Vantage is not appropriate for large breed puppies. I was told the actual calcium level for the Puppy Vantage formula is around 1.56%. I did email the company last year about the grain-free formulas and was told the actual levels are generally close to the minimum – I have re-emailed the company to verify the information I received last year but have not yet received a response.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[polyxen]

I’m about to get a 2nd Vizsla here, my first one was grown on a low quality food, full of grain, rice, meal etc etc… stools were really really really softs if not liquid… but that’s what my breeder uses so I let her on that.
I use Acana Pacifica right now for my Vizsla and wow … she’s athletic, hard dry stools once a day, eat 2cup a day .. I think it’s a really good dog food for that kind of dog.

I wanted to know if the Orijen puppy was suitable for this king of puppy, with all I’ve read on calcium, protein level etc… !

Need advice please !

Thanks !

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi glavoie –

I personally recommend keeping dogs on either a “growth”/”all life stages” food for life. There are a few quality foods labeled for “maintenance” (likely due to simply to the company’s marketing preferences), but the best foods are generally going to be growth/all life stages formulas. Maintenance formulas tend to be too low and protein and fat and there’s no reason the quality of a dog’s food needs to be reduced just because they end the growth phase. Once your pup is around 8 – 10 months or so you can, however, stop monitoring calcium levels so closely – at this age pups are through their most rapid phase of growth and gain the ability to regulate calcium absorption.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi lemdem –

Glad you found this thread helpful 🙂

Nutro Max LBP and Whole Earth Farms are both too high in calcium for a LBP. I have no idea about the Purina/Pedigree products, I’ve never looked into them as they’re not something I’d ever recommend. I would assume that a “large breed puppy” formula manufactured by Purina would have appropriate calcium levels though, so if someone wanted to feed a cheap brand I’d probably (reluctantly)recommend going with a Purina LBP formula. However, I honestly doubt that anyone considering feeding their pup something such as Beneful or Pedigree would have any concern for proper growth and prevention of developmental orthopedic disease. I wouldn’t ever recommend feeding an adult food to a puppy – an “all life stages” formula is fine, but not a formula labeled for “maintenance” (check the AAFCO statement on the bag because some “adult” foods are actually approved for all life stages” – meaning that they’re essentially a puppy formula). Maintenance foods are generally too low in protein and fat for a puppy (and also – imo – for adult dogs) and can be too low in certain vitamins and minerals for a growing dog. Due to the lower calorie content found in most adult formulas (in comparison to puppy or all life stages formulas), a pup may actually end up consuming more calcium per calorie even if the calcium percentage by weight is lower. Very young puppies could also have difficulty meeting their energy needs on a low calorie adult formula.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi londoncalling1996 –

That’s too bad your store didn’t carry any of the foods. 🙁 If you’re not opposed to online ordering there are many sites that sell a wider variety of foods than you could find in a store and they also typically have lower prices – most also offer free shipping with no weight limit when you spend a certain amount of money (usually orders over $49). I’d recommend checking out wag.com, chewy.com, petflow.com and naturalk9supplies.com. Also the new lists should give you many additional options to choose from.

I definitely feel that, if it’s financially feasible, non-dry foods should be fed as a sole diet or at least in addition to kibble. Dry food is actually the worst thing to feed a dog – however to to budget and time constraints it, understandably, comprises the bulk of most dog’s diets. I urge you to check out this article Dr. Marty Goldstein (one of my all time favorite veterinarians) posted on his blog, it ranks the different types of food from best to worst: drmarty.com/what-should-i-feed-my-pet-for-best-health/

If you add wet food you should count account for this in her daily food intake – just monitor her weight and if she’s gaining too much start feeding a little less. One of my all time favorite wet food toppers (especially for large breed puppies) is Tripett. I like Tripett for several reasons: 1) high protein/moderate fat/low carbohydrate (ideal); 2) it has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but very low amounts of each, so it can effectively be used to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio in any food fed to a large breed puppy without the risk of throwing off the balance and 3) dogs go absolutely nuts for it (people hate it – if you feed it you’ll see why – but they love it). The only thing I want to note with Tripett is that it’s not a complete and balanced food (it’s just canned green tripe) so if you do feed it make sure it doesn’t exceed 20% of the meal or you could throw off the nutritional balance. Some other more balanced canned foods that I like that could account for over 20% of the meal are: ZiwiPeak, Addiction, Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Merrick. Dr. Mike has a great compilation of high quality canned foods over on the review site as well. If you’re looking for a quality yet budget friendly canned food (canned food can be quite pricey, especially when feeding a large breed puppy) I’d recommend checking out 4Health (available at Tractor Supply, $0.99 per can), Pure Balance (available at Walmart, $1 per can), Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (available at Costco, $0.79 per can), Whole Earth Farms (available at many online retailers about $1.50 per can) – these foods are all 4 – 5 star quality. Some other toppers you could use are dehdyrated foods (i.e. The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.) – these foods are about the same consistency as a stew type canned food when rehydrated, a balanced frozen or freeze-dried commercial raw food (freeze-dried rehydrates to canned food consistency) or fresh toppers such as sardines, eggs, plain yogurt or left over lean meat or steam veggies from your dinner.

Digestive aids aren’t necessary, but many feel they’re beneficial. Many of the regulars here supplement with probiotics and enzymes. I don’t supplement with either because my dogs eat a raw diet (naturally occurring enzymes) and consume raw green tripe (rich in enzymes and probiotics) and kefir (rich in probiotics) on a regular basis. If feeding cooked food only (like kibble and canned) I do feel that enzymes and probiotics can provide benefit.

[londoncalling1996]

Hi Hound Dog Mom, I REALLY appreciate all you research and hard work compiling all the information on what to feed Large and Giant Breed Puppies, in our case, our 11 week old Bernese Mtn Dog. I printed your recommendations and took the list to our local pet and feed store. I was leaning to Fromm because it’s one of the lowest in calcium. The Fromm website listed our local pet and feed store as carrying two of their lines. Not only do they not carry Fromm, they don’t carry any of the foods on your list except Canine Caviar, which you said in a recent post that you are taking off the list. I can see this isn’t going to be so straight forward! I did call a pet store about 20 miles away and they carry Fromm, so I will go tomorrow and pick some up for LUX. Can you please tell me if feeding her just the dry food is good for her? Or should I add some protein? What about the green tripe? What about digestive aids? Should I add of of those to her diet? I do put a little wet food into the end of her kong and freeze it to give her a treat when I put her in her crate at bedtime. Should I count that as food and subtract some kibble in one of her daytime meals? Also, what do you recommend as a wet food to use in the kong and/or as a topper occasionally on her kibble? I want to do the best I can for her in her life and especially in the coming formative months! Thanks so much!!!! Cheers, Jules

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi julez4you –

The calcium levels in this particular formula are appropriate for a large breed puppy and it is an all life stages food however – imho – it’s way too low in protein and fat. If you do feed it, I would definitely recommend topping with a high protein canned food or adding some fresh meat/eggs/etc. I definitely feel high protein is preferable. I’m a big fan of THK and, in fact, my two year old was weaned onto THK and ate it until she was 8 months old – Love was a staple in the rotation.

I completely understand where you’re coming from with the raw thing. Commercial raw is very expensive – especially for large dogs. I could never afford commercial raw for my two given the amount that they eat. I’m able to do homemade fairly cheaply but it does get quite time consuming.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DellUSN –

Yes – I feel that the sooner a rotational feeding program is implemented the better. There are several reasons foods should be rotated – there is no “best” or “perfect” food so switching brands will help to mitigate the shortcomings of feeding any one brand for an extended period of time, feeding a variety of foods helps to foster a strong and diverse population of microorganisms in the gut and by having several “go to” foods you’ll be able to make a quick switch in the event of a recall or formula change. Some also believe that rotating foods helps to decrease the risk of the dog developing a sensitivity to a particular ingredient later in life.

Initially, you may need to gradually transition your pup when switching brands. You would do this by feeding 25% new/75% old for a few days, then moving to 50/50 for a few days, then 75/25 for a few days, then transitioning entirely to the new food. If your pup is experiencing loose stools during the transition a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and/or probiotics may help. My two dogs were both started on a rotational feeding plan upon coming home at 8 weeks old and neither experienced any digestive upset – but it does depend on the dog.

As far as which brands to feed, for the next four months or so I would recommend keeping him on a controlled calcium food. Any of the kibbles on my list would be comparable to Wellness CORE. I’m currently in the process of updating the list and by the end of this week or beginning of next week I should have a revised grain-free list, a grain-inclusive list and a raw list posted.

There really is no rhyme or reason to rotational feeding – everyone has their own method. I haven’t fed kibble quite a few years but for my last dog that ate kibble I got a new brand with a new protein source at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned food and/or fresh food “toppers” daily. When I got Gertie (currently two years old) I rotated between The Honest Kitchen’s (dehydrated) Love, Embark, Thrive and Zeal formulas and fed a different variety each day, I also mixed in a can of Tripett with her breakfast and gave her either a raw egg, a tin or sardines or plain yogurt at dinner. When she was 8 months old I switched her to a raw diet. Mabel (my one year old) transitioned to a raw diet as soon as she came home at 8 weeks. On their homemade raw diets my dogs get something completely different at each meal.

I would highly recommend adding “toppers” if you’re feeding kibble as the sole diet. Toppers will boost the “species-appropriateness” by adding some extra protein, moisture and providing your dog with some fresh, less processed food. Some people believe canned foods are unhealthy, however they’re actually much healthier than dry food – they’re less processed, higher in protein/lower in carbohydrates and have a high moisture content. The same applies to dehydrated foods and raw foods. If you’re adding a balanced canned, dehydrated or raw food you can top with as much as you want. “People food” is great too – any left over lean meat or veggies from your dinner, eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, kefir and cottage cheese are all cheap and very healthy foods (just keep unbalanced extras such as these to 20% or less of the meal or you could risk throwing of the nutritional balance of the kibble).

Hope that helps! 🙂

[spaniel39]

Hi, AL
well, I received a reply from Canine caviar AND
(I had sent the info to Petflow/wag/Mr Chewey)
from Mr Chewey, who had contacted the company and received a reply that they forwarded to me.

Follow me?
I got a reply from Canine Caviar
I got a different reply from Canine Caviar that was sent to dog food distributor Mr Chewy
who forwarded it to me.
Sound good?
NOT!
Two different explanations and I truly believe some sort of cover-up
Not a very bright one as they have admitted putting the large breed food, into bags
that have different mineral (calcium/phosphorous) levels posted.
This is not minor.
A large breed pup fed a calcium level of 2.3 and phosphorous of 2 definitely
will adversely affect the pups health and growth and definitely cause skeletal
agonizing deformities (as any vet).
That is why the large breed brands have calcium no more than 1-1.3% and phosphorous
around .95-1%. There is a medical/scientific reason for this.
Anyway, both Mr Chewey and Canine caviar offered to replace my bags
(although it’s been 2 days and haven’t heard back from Canine, which is really irritating)
I mean, they know/knew about this and did not tell any of their distributors, no one!
What does that tell you?

[Hershy]

Hello, again, HDM,
Still searching for the best food to meet quality for a price I can afford. Have ruled out the Kirkland-wasn’t happy with many reviews I read. Wellness Core Puppy is on your list of favorite foods in the “grain free” list.
Do you know yet if Wellness Large Breed Puppy will be on your Grain inclusive list? Calcium (min) is nice and low. I’m leaning toward this one for now. Also wondered what the asterisk comment means relating to food quality. “Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO…” – do they mean these ingredients are of no benefit for the puppy, and a waste to add, or maybe amount of it not enough of to do the job? I realize they are not the bare bones nutrients a dog needs, but why do they put this on the bag? Seems the comment would be more useful on the bag that does NOT have these ingredients? ; ). I think I’m giving this way too much thought..

Ingredients:
Deboned Chicken, Deboned Whitefish, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Peas, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Salmon Meal (a natural source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Salmon Oil (a natural source of DHA – Docosahexaenoic Acid), Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Salt, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Choline Chloride, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products
Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein (min.) 26.0%, Crude Fat (min.) 12.0%, Crude Fiber (max.) 4.5%, Moisture (max.) 11.0%, Calcium (min.) 1.0%, Phosphorus (min.) .90%, Vitamin E (min.) 150IU, Omega 6* (min.) 2.5%, Omega 3* (min.) .50%, DHA .137#37;, Beta-Carotene* (min.) 5 mg/kg, Lycopene* (min.) .25 mg/kg, Taurine* (min.) .09%, Total Micro-Organisms* (min.) 20,000,000 CFU/lb. *Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

Thanks!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hershy.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hershy.

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI alanysrayne –

The calcium guidelines apply to wet food as well if it’s going to be comprising a significant portion (>20%) of your pup’s diet. If you just plan on using a small amount as a topper don’t worry about it too much. As long as you’re keeping it to 20% or less of the meal I’d highly recommend Tripett – it’s a great topper for large breed puppies as it has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but low levels of each and dogs love it! It’s not a complete and balanced food though which is why I’d only recommend it as a topper.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dogmom –

As Patty stated I’m currently in the process of updating the grain-free list and creating a grain-inclusive list. I have already sent inquiries to all companies that have 4 and 5 star puppy foods and am in the process of waiting for the responses to come in. I can tell you, however, none of the Acana formulas are appropriate for large breed puppies. The new Orijen Large Breed Puppy formula is lower in calcium than the previous formula but will not be included on the list – it’s still a tad high. But, to give my honest opinion, if you add 20% or less of an all meat topper or all meat canned food (like Tripett) I think it would be fine.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom –

Unfortunately that supplement wouldn’t be safe for a dog. It contains green tea extract which contains caffeine, caffeine is toxic to dogs – this was actually the main reason I asked for the ingredients list, most “green” supplements for humans contain green tea extract. It also contains grape extract – grapes are toxic to dogs (grape seed extract is okay though).

If you’re feeding an unbalanced diet and want some extra nutritional assurance I’d go with a basic one a day type human multi that has no calcium or that is low in calcium (<5% dv) so you don’t throw of the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the meal. For a small dog I’d give just 1/4 of a human tablet. No, the green supplement I have posted wouldn’t be a substitute for a multi, it will however provide trace nutrients and immune boosting effects and would be great to give in addition to a multi. You could use the glandular supplement as well – you can give this as daily if you want or just a few times a week (my dogs get a capsule of a glandular three days per week).

[Shihtzumom20]

So I am trying to get myself organized to start feeding Dawson his raw meal in the pm. I saw Hound Dog Mom’s simplified recipe and I would like to start with that. Is there a certain multi-vitamin that would be better? Could I use the Green’s multi-vitamin? Here is a link:
http://www.nutritionhouse.com/greens-multi-507g-p-251.html#.UdiqkPlO_jA

I was also looking at the Swanson’s glandular and concentrated multi-fruit complex, could I use a mixture of these things? or would I still need a multi-vitamin? I like using krill oil for him anyways, but he does like sardines, could I feed him a sardine for a meal a couple times a week and that would be ok? Or would it just be best to use the krill oil?
He also hates vegetables… He picks the carrots out of his grandma Lucy’s and he just isn’t a fan of vegetables in general. Any suggestions?
I would follow Hound Dog Mom’s 1Ib boneless meat+1/4 cup cooked vegetables (unless you could suggest an alternative)+multi-vitamin (could I use the Green’s for this? if I could and then maybe need to add one or two things that would be nice. Or another multi-vitamin you like)+calcium+krill oil, or the sardines? Or would the sardines just be an “extra” that he would get?
I would like to start him by next weekend if all goes to plan!

[spaniel39]

Hi,
anyone have a suggestion for a new food for my giant breed puppy.
IS on hightly rated artemis fresh mix large breed puppy but stools are very loose
all the time (like pudding/soft serve). Tested for giardia,etc and all is fine plus
was wormed twice for 5 days on Panacur just to be sure.
she may have a chicken allergy so was going to try Solid Gold Wolf cub but seems very
grain heavy. Would be wonderful to find a 4 or 5* food that produces firmer stools.
I know Hounddog lady (think that’s her name) has a list of grain free with lower calcium and
phosphorus, but I’ve been told by so many breeders, vets, etc that although grain free
is best for adults (both my spaniels are on Acana and Wellness core ocean)
Pups should not be deprived of grains first 9 months-1 year.
Would welcome any advice
Thank you
Michael and Samuel the Spaniel and Sophie the Komondor

[spaniel39]

Hi,
anyone have a suggestion for a new food for my giant breed puppy.
IS on hightly rated artemis fresh mix large breed puppy but stools are very loose
all the time (like pudding/soft serve). Tested for giardia,etc and all is fine plus
was wormed twice for 5 days on Panacur just to be sure.
she may have a chicken allergy so was going to try Solid Gold Wolf cub but seems very
grain heavy. Would be wonderful to find a 4 or 5* food that produces firmer stools.
I know Hounddog lady (think that’s her name) has a list of grain free with lower calcium and
phosphorus, but I’ve been told by so many breeders, vets, etc that although grain free
is best for adults (both my spaniels are on Acana and Wellness core ocean)
Pups should not be deprived of grains first 9 months-1 year.
Would welcome any advice
Thank you
Michael and Samuel the Spaniel and Sophie the Komondor!

[Boerboel Daddy]

Hi

I’m not sure if you have answered a similar question before as i haven’t read through the entire thread.. but here it goes

I have a 2,5 yr old Boerboel ( South African Breed similar to a English Mastiff) who has just mated a week ago. I am currently feeding Eathborn Primitive natural (2.4% Calcium). I will natural feed the pups one of the other Eathborn Foods you have already recommended due to the lower calcium content… (thanks for that info by the way)
.Other articles I’ve read warned against feeding too high levels of calcium to pregnant dogs and recommend switching to a puppy food of a quality dog food. (it had something to do with the contraction of the Uterus)

Finally the Question…: can I keep her on Earthborn Primitive natural (2.4% calcium) or should I switch to another Earthborn product (1.2 – 1.3% calcium) until after she has given birth and continue with primitive natural then?
also if I give her a calcium ascorbate supplement, does this affect the amount of calcium in the diet?

Any advice give will be appreciated, My girl Jordan and I thank you in advance

[sbrooker]

Hi Hound Dog Mom

I have a 5 month old Rhodesian Ridgeback. He has been fed Natures Variety Instict Raw Boost Chicken dry kibble since he could eat solid food. Is this item not on your list because it contains too much Calcium? He really enjoys his food, but I have noticed his stools are sometimes very runny. I attributed this at first to him eating grass and such, but am now wondering if his stomach is reacting to something in his food? Should I consider switching to the Natures Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Turkey that you have listed in your low calcium document?

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by sbrooker.

[jewlz2121]

Hi everyone! I’m brand spankin new here, so hello. I am adopting a 4 and a half month old American Bulldog/Boxer-Hound puppy who currently weighs 41lbs. He’s estimated to be 80 plus lbs as an adult. He has been fed a petsmart store brand dry food up until now. For obvious reasons, I want to change this and feed him something much better. I have looked through the 10 page awesome large breed puppy thread as well as the created doc file on the best foods with lower calcium. Cost is a factor for us. We wanted to go with a Dry Kibble that was able to be bought at a pet store or easy delivery service. From the list, I was leaning toward Wellness Core Puppy and the Kirkland brand. However, I don’t have a Costco membership so that might be a problem! Can anyone help point me in the right direction to make sure puppy has a better finish to his puppyhood than he started out with? He’s currently eating 2 cups in the a.m. and 1 cup in the p.m. – seems like a lot??? How long to stay on a puppy food? Thank you SO MUCH!

[theBCnut]

Tripe is usually only lightly rinsed so your dog is getting a good amount of greens(depending on what the cow ate last), probiotics, and digestive enzymes as well as protein and fat. It’s the other things you might want to add.

Also, if you are feeding a meal that you know is high in calcium and phosphorus, but pretty well balanced, you can add tripe to lower the overall amounts, but not throw off the balance.