[pugmomsandy]

I’m a proponent of using different supplements (or rather not relying on just one) so I would use it if I had it, but also rotate it with other supplements. I’ve used Dr Harveys Ortho Flex (with devils claw) but also have Actiflex 4000, cetyl-M, and tumeric. I also like plain old green lipped mussel as well. Wysong Arthegic looks good too.

[pugmomsandy]

If you look at the ingredient lists, they are at the FAR OPPOSITE ends of the spectrum. It’s almost like for someone who hasn’t eaten meat in a long time, and then they eat a big bowl of chili or a big steak. Not saying that Beneful doesn’t have meat, but it’s not anything like the meats and organs and fish in Orijen and now it has a bunch of legumes. A dog has gut flora that adjusts to eating certain foods. Right now, he has the ones most adapted to Beneful. So it might be quite a shock to go to Orijen. Also Orijen has quite a bit more fat. I would put it in the high fat category. This also might possibly cause some digestive upset. But I’m just being cautious! You won’t know how your dog will do until you try it. And also try several foods. A rotational diet is (IMO) best. Find a couple kibbles, some canned foods, some raw foods, etc. Back a few years ago, I weaned mine off Beneful with regular Merrick (the old recipe with gravy) and Blue Wilderness mixed together.

http://urbanpawsmagazine.com/archives/59

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

How long has he been eating it? Some will say just do a cold turkey switch (that’s what my fosters get), and some will say to do a transition period. It all depends on your dog’s gut health. Things that might help with transition tummy troubles: canned pure pumpkin puree, ground psyllium, probiotics, digestive enzymes.

Also, one suggestion is to go from Beneful to a quality grain-inclusive food before transitioning to a mod-high protein grain free food. I like only gluten free grain foods like Nature’s Logic. Solid Gold Sundancer is like that also. Not sure which manufacturer makes Sundancer though.

I will say that my fosters eat Nutrisource grain free Lamb, Nutrisource Heartland Select, sometimes Nutrisource small/med breed puppy (has rice), Brothers Complete Beef and Turkey, and Nutrisca Lamb. It’s all mixed up together in varying amounts and they get probiotics and psyllium.

Frankly, I wouldn’t go from Beneful to Orijen. But that’s me.

[pugmomsandy]

The Honest Kitchen also has Perfect Form. It contains slippery elm which helps sooth the GI tract.

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

[pugmomsandy]

I believe so. I bought some from the grocery store and there is not alot of meat on them at all. My little dogs ate them fine and pooped normally.

[pugmomsandy]

I would give him a low fat, cooked homemade food for a week or two like chicken and quinoa. And do a follow up blood test. And then if he’s feeling better, very slowly add in his regular food.

[pugmomsandy]

Did they have a medical condition resulting in a sensitive stomach or have you come to a conclusion that they have a sensitive stomach and how so? What do they do? Do you give them probiotics? Have you always fed them rice? How long have they been on this food or a previous food? You’ll find that there are alot of canned foods to chose from that have limited ingredients and yes, you should use canned foods or freeze-dried or dehydrated foods (rehydrated of course) as all of those are better than kibble. There is no “best” food so pick a couple foods that they do well on. Apologies for all the questions, not trying to be rude. I just haven’t had a dog yet with a sensitive stomach and I have 3 of my own right now but I’ve had 205 fosters that I’ve never had to feed a special diet to. Just good old, regular, full fat, various proteins, various carbs, occasionally rice but I give them probiotics and digestive enzymes in the beginning and they do just fine after a few days. I have no idea what they were eating before (well, one did come with a bag of Kibbles & Bits!) they were rescued and then ate vet food for a few days or week or two until coming to my home. You might want to work on building up their “guts” and making them stronger and healthier with probiotics. Of course, that’s not the only thing that effects gut health, there’s other toxins and actual food ingredients that can damage the gut.

http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

There won’t be anything good in a food that costs $14 for a 44 lb bag.

[pugmomsandy]

Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diets, California Natural (grain free: Salmon Meal and Peas, Kangaroo and Lentils, Lamb Meal, Venison and Green Lentils), Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance, Great Life Dr E’s Grain/Potato free Limited Ingredient Diets, Great Life Grain Free Salmon and Buffalo, Back to Basics Pork and Open Range High Protein formulas, Innova Prime Beef & Lamb and Salmon & Herring formulas, Only Natural Pet MaxMeat Beef or Lamb & Cod, Smack Salmon, Ziwipeak, Canine Caviar Grain Free, Natural Balance LID Legume and Duck Meal.

Horizon Legacy Fish and Horizon Pulsar Fish (have egg product), Nutrisca Salmon (eggs), Epigen Fish and Venison (chicken fat), EVO Red Meat and Herring and Salmon (eggs), Avoderm Revolving Menu (chicken fat), Dogswell LiveFree Lamb (dried eggs), GO! Senisitivity and Shine grain free Turkey (dried egg).

There’s more choices if you look at canned foods.

[pugmomsandy]

Is chicken fat ok since it doesn’t have protein and what about eggs, duck, turkey?

[pugmomsandy]

You can add some oil (coconut, pumpkin, or other, I have fish and Udo’s oil) to the food for added calories and also add in some Abady granular food to the one who needs to gain weight. It has around 800 calories per cup of food. If you needed to add 100 calories, that would be about 2 tablespoons.

[pugmomsandy]

I’m using in no particular order Sojo’s, The Honest Kitchen and Addiction. Actually all 3 products are open! I haven’t noticed frequent big chunks of Sojo’s in the dogs’ poops but they’ve been on it for a couple of bags. They get probiotics and digestive enzymes sometimes too. I had to add (as a preference) some protein to the Sojo’s and Addiction since they are not as high as I’d like. And I’m not sure that I would buy Sojo’s in the future as I believe the celery (or some of the dried veggies) is from China. But, they don’t eat it every day either. I have so many different foods around here.

[pugmomsandy]

Mine love gnawing on beef rib bones. They don’t seem fatty either.

[pugmomsandy]

One site I looked at said a 10 lb dog should have 300 mg glucosamine daily. So if you go by that, he can have the dosage on the bottle – 2 tabs for the loading period and then 1 tab per day. Cetyl-M has 250 mg glucosamine. It has bromelain in it as well. So taking this on an empty stomach allows the enzyme to work systemically rather than acting to digest food.

http://www.glucosaminefordogshq.com/glucosamine-dosage-for-dogs/

[pugmomsandy]

This video may help you:

/choosing-dog-food/karen-becker-best-worst-dog-food/

And some more articles:

http://b-naturals.com/index.php?main_page=index&main_page=newsletters

http://thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

You can feed any kind of food any time. Kibble one meal, raw for one meal, dehydrated for another meal, canned food the next, etc. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

[pugmomsandy]

!#&%@!! Well, crap!! I guess it’s a sign…I don’t have any on my shelf right now. I’ve been meaning to email Hound and Gatos to see where they are canned. Keep forgetting! Anyone know?

[pugmomsandy]

somebodysme,

Animal Essentials has a plant based enzyme and probiotic:

Animal Essentials Plant Enzymes & Probiotics Digestive Powder for Dogs & Cats

[pugmomsandy]

The review of Tucker’s Raw Frozen was just posted yesterday. It has very few ingredients. Might give it a try. Do you use canned food currently? I’ve fed Sojo’s, The Honest Kitchen and Addiction dehydrated foods so far and no problems with those. Stuart Raw Science and Wysong Uncanny are two other foods I’d like to try. There are lots of options to use to avoid and a kibble-only diet.

[pugmomsandy]

I like Wellness Stews, Merrick Classic and 96%, Tripett, Weruva, Addiction, and dehydrated foods like The Honest Kitchen.

[pugmomsandy]

In addition to what Patty uses, we use Nature’s Variety Instinct, Back to Basics and Nutrisource grain free and Amicus. My mom’s 7 or 8 yr old bichon eats Merrick currently with various grain free canned foods.

[pugmomsandy]

Tripett is $28-$33 per case!

[pugmomsandy]

The pate type canned foods I like are Core, Tripett, Addiction and Whole Earth Farms and Merrick 96%. I haven’t checked their case prices lately.

[pugmomsandy]

The Arthroplex ingredients look good.

[pugmomsandy]

I think E (especially all 8 forms of E) is hard to get from the diet. But HDM has said something about it I think in regards to giving it along with another supplement.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

There was a post from someone that said his dog did better on the EVO small bites that he had accidentally bought instead of the regular size.

[pugmomsandy]

I think Nzymes is just plant based. Nzymes.com And you might look at Garden of Life brand too.

[pugmomsandy]

I think smaller kibbles digest better than thicker kibbles since the dog digestive tract is fast.

[pugmomsandy]

I think swapping the muscle meats and necks will be ok. Since I have beef and chicken heart, I mix those up too, and I use tripe for muscle meat too. I use chicken or duck necks in all the recipes. I don’t think it would unbalance the calcium/phosphorus. My last batch was duck neck, tripe, duck gizzard, chicken heart.

[pugmomsandy]

Glad it’s working! Might have to get some for the fosters. Some come with bad skin!

[pugmomsandy]

Actually, the fact that a food contains rice isn’t part of the rating system. It’s the amount of meat that affects the score. Just as an example, Canidae Single Grain Protein Plus received 5 stars although they are no longer making that particular food.

[pugmomsandy]

The Nutrisource grain free Lamb is xsmall. The Nutrisource Heartland Select is a little bigger and flat and round (small, but bigger than Lamb).

[pugmomsandy]

Cetyl-M, chewable, easy to break apart. Not super strong like Glycoflex 3 Chewables.

http://www.responseproducts.com/advanced-cetyl-m-joint-action-formula-for-dogs-120-tablets/

[pugmomsandy]

While the FDA says the levels are low, I still wouldn’t feed a rice-based food everyday. Has there actually been a study done on dogs that have eaten rice long term? I love rice but only eat it once or twice a week now. I’m too scared to eat it any more than that. So much of our food is so bad for us now 🙁

[pugmomsandy]

justme2,

Look at page 1 and 2 of this thread for the food recommendations. There’s a google doc link in there.

[pugmomsandy]

Justme2,
If the shepherd is a “large breed” then he needs a food with a special calcium level and calcium:phosphorus ratio for proper joint development and to avoid too fast growth of bones and orthopedic disease till he’s at least 18 months old. There’s a section here in the forum for “large breed puppies”. Check it out for sure. As for the yorkies, the smallest kibbles I’ve used are Nutrisource Small/Medium Breed Puppy, Nature’s Select Hi-Pro, Amicus (for toy breeds, grain free) and Nature’s Logic. These are ok for pups and adults and all of them are gluten free last time I checked. Then the next size up kibble but still very small is Nature’s Variety and Brothers Complete, Nutrisca, and Nutrisource grain free Lamb. I’ve used all of these in my house. I’ve fostered over 200 pugs now! On a side note, as Patty mentioned a possible grain mite issue, Purina did have a recall for mold in the recent past. How do you store your kibble? Do you keep it in the original bag and in an air tight container in air conditioning and preferably roll the bag down so there’s not much air in it? Or do you pour it out into a container? Do you clean the container before you refill it?

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

Dr Becker’s book. “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” 3rd Edition. It also has some organ meat and some liver in there too, along with the necks and boneless meat. Can’t find it right now. It’s like a scavenger hunt around here after the cleaning ladies come! I just used it a two weeks ago.

[pugmomsandy]

You don’t have to feed just one food for life. Try out several and rotate through a couple that you really like. And you don’t have to try just 5 star foods either. Try some 4 star foods too. Some dogs just can’t handle a 5 star food right off the bat. Nutrisource, Fromm, and Victor have both grain and grain free foods and so far, no recalls and they’re mid-priced. Maybe try a grain-inclusive food but with better quality ingredients like the brands I just mentioned since your dogs are currently eating grain food. Some 5 star grain foods are Merrick and Nature’s Logic. I’ve probably fed 20 different foods before keeping a few “staples” on hand and I still try out new foods as well but always rely on my staples. My fosters who get no transition time eat Nutrisource and Nutrisca.

[pugmomsandy]

The problem in Texas is we rarely get a hard freeze to kill everything!

[pugmomsandy]

Diamond is one of the biggest kibble makers in the USA and they make soooo many brands of kibble that it is more than likely (make that inevitable) that they will have future recalls as they’ve had a couple in the past already. Just look up “Diamond Recalls”. You’ll also find out how they used broken equipment as well.

http://www.petsitusa.com/blog/?p=5159

[pugmomsandy]

The savings is going to be awesome with all the dogs you have. With my grinder, grinding over 100 lbs takes 10 or 15 minutes. It’s the packaging that is time consuming. Best to do that with a helper or 2. And get that freezer!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

Oh, and there’s also Stewart Raw Science Science. I might have to try Uncanny with Addiction. Seems like a good mix. I like using brushtail as a protein.

[pugmomsandy]

Well, I mix the DE in their food instead of on their fur, and there doesn’t seem to be any side effects from that. I’m using Flea Free Supplement (garlic and vinegar liquid) right now – about 1 teaspoon per day (not every day). In my other room, I give the other dogs Bug Off garlic chewables. I use Halo Herbal Dip for flea/tick spray. For the yard, I use Neem Oil spray, Cedarcide spray and AntiDOTE brand nematodes (not all at once). I foster and haven’t had any flea problems since last year when I started these products (except Bug Off is a new product around here).

http://www.wolfcreekranch.net/flea_free_food_supplement.html

http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs

http://shop.halopets.com/Grooming-Supplies/Herbal-Dip-5oz

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

LOL! You know lots! 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

I put freeze-dried and dehydrated and air-dried in the same bucket since their water has been removed – the mechanism doesn’t matter for me. Grandma Lucy’s is freeze dried, not dehydrated.

[pugmomsandy]

Generally, meats are acidifying and increasing the protein in the diet can help with struvites. Try using meat treats like Stella & Chewy’s Carnivore Crunch or Kisses, Vital Essentials freeze dried nibbletts, Fresh is Best dehyrated meat treats, Pure Bites, or some safe jerky. But you also want to increase fluid intake with these dried treats and overall to flush out the bladder. A wet food diet might be better. When her UTI is gone and she’s on regular food, give her urinary tract supplements. There is one called Wysong Biotic pH- and Clear Tract or Berry Balance, etc.

http://www.wysong.net/products/ph-dog-cat-supplement.php

http://www.wysong.net/pet-health-and-nutrition/urinary-problems.php

[pugmomsandy]

It looks interesting. I definitely don’t know herbs enough to say if any are harmful. Have you tried Herbsmith?

[pugmomsandy]

Ziwipeak, Only Natural Pet Max Meat, Smack, Vital Essentials, Addiction.
As far as ingredients go, look for named meats, named fats, real veg/fruit, superfoods, and protein at least around 30% dry matter. Because just like kibble, there are high and low protein dehydrated foods. 30 is just around average. I don’t think Ziwipeak and Vital Essentials absorb water well so I would use those like kibble. You can use rehydrated foods like you would canned foods. They can be given any time as a meal or as a topper to kibble. My senior gets mostly wet food.

[pugmomsandy]

There’s info at http://www.earthworkshealth.com/pets-animals.php

Be sure to use a mask as you don’t want to breath it in while applying it around the house and bedding and be careful applying it to the dogs as well. You can find it at most garden supply places and be sure to get “food grade” DE (don’t let the picture on the can scare you especially if you don’t get one marketed just for pets). I feed it to my dogs. As for fleas, I use essential oils, garlic and vinegar. I’ve been meaning to make a facial scrub with it but keep forgetting and keep buying commercial products from the store.

[pugmomsandy]

The recipe used chicken necks and additional muscle and organ. I can look it up when I get home.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

There are ingredients put into dog food to enhance the flavor and taste and those things can be addicting and make it hard for owners to change their pet’s food. If you ever pick up an issue of Pet Food Industry magazine, you might be surprised to see all the products and chemicals and mixtures advertised to enhance taste in a dog food. I foster dogs so they never get a transition whatsoever and I can tell you, they do just fine after the usual transition period. Some might not eat for a day or two, nearly three and I might need to mix in some canned food, but then they get over it and eat like every one else. You might just take longer to change her food out, even if it takes over a month or two. Feed 90/10 for at least a week and until she has no problem with it, then 80/20, 70/30, etc. You might even start with a 3 or 4 star food and work your way up to 5 stars foods or even feed a rotation of 4 and 5 star foods. I took my dogs off Beneful (that has corn and sugar and propylene glycol and probably tastes great and made by Purina) and won’t look back even if they loved it and scarfed it down and would choose it in a bowl to bowl taste test just like I would not rely on a bowl of cereal even if it were 100% complete and balanced for every meal of my life. For the Pro Plan, in the long run, I would be worried about the effects of the corn products being that 95% of corn is now a GMO and so is some wheat. GMO’s fed to test animals cause health problems and believe me, there haven’t been any human trials or research to their long term affects on our health. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6OxbpLwEjQ Then, I just don’t prefer companies that use feeding trials.

“The protocol requires six of eight animals complete a 26-week feeding trial without showing clinical or pathological signs of nutritional deficiency or excess. The cats’ or dogs’ general health is evaluated by a veterinarian before and after the test. Four blood values (hemoglobin, packed cell volume, serum alkaline phosphatase and serum albumin) are measured after the trial, and the average values of the test subjects must meet minimum levels. No animal is allowed to lose more than 15% of its starting weight” from wikipedia.

25% of test subjects can be taken out of the test for any reason including illness and not be reported in the final outcome and the food can still pass!

Then I would worry about problems arising from being fed gluten every meal of her life http://dogtorj.com/what-is-food-intolerance/gluten-intolerance/ and getting menadione. Not to mention there’s 4 grain ingredients in front of the poultry by-product meal.

There are just so many other foods out there that do offer you more for the money. Nutrisource and Dr Tim’s and Victor are a few.

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