[Susan]

Hi Brenda,

IBS IBD is an awful disease, my Staffy Patch has IBD diagnosed thru Endoscope & Biopsies..
Are you seeing a vet that specializes in IBD/IBS??

You have just posted what my Patch was like when he took Predisone…

Predisone made my boy WORSE vomiting, nausea, Diarrhea, slept all thru day, my happy go lucky Patch became worse, I knew it was the Predisone, when his vet first prescibe it the first time I said NO NO, so we tried Metronidazole again which really helps him but then Patch kept having his stomach/pancreas pain, he was lifting his right paw & wanting me to rub his stomach so I thought it was his Pancreas that was sore but test result kept saying his Pancreas was good & healthy then the vet said its his stomach from the IBD 🙁
My vet suffers with IBD which is really good cause she knows all the symptoms..
Then I released he was only whinging & lifting his paw after eating certin dry kibbles…
his dry kibble can not be higher then 360 in Kcals per cup or high in fat this is when his stomach hurts…
I’d reduce his predisone over 2 weeks, then reduce again over 2 weeks etc & stop you’ll probably see he getting a bit better, reduce slowly if he’s been on Predisone more then 2 months, google side effects dogs taking Prednisone…
When Predisone works their poos firm up, the dog start getting better, they drink & drink water but that’s nothing compared to them being ill with IBD symptoms, my Patch didnt get better while taking predisone only worse & we started on a low dose 10mg twice a day for a 18kg/40lb dog, vet reduced down to 5mg a day, 2.5mg with breakfast 2.5mg with dinner still Patch wanst his happy self & his sloppy sloppy poo continued, vomiting stopped but he was feeling very sick & mouth licking eating grass, then once I stopped the Predisone Patch got better within 2-3 days.. Talk with your vet or start reducing the Prednisone yourself, then just explain to your vet & if you get a better result the vet normally says Ok then & my vet wrote on Patches chart he can NOT take Prednisone… Something isnt right with your poor boy nilly 2 yrs he should be getting better…

Here’s a good F/B group to join
“Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disease IBD – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support” group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/292537937935806/
I know it says “raw feeding” but there’s people in group that cook, give vet diets etc

Also go on “Judy Morgan DVM” F/B page & look thru her Video’s scroll down, down till you get to around August 2017 look for her “IBD Diet” I cant find it, but I am scrolling quickly
Here’s her “Pancreatitis Diet” June 4 2017 you can leave out some ingredients it gives you ideas.. https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/videos/1347288501986822/

I buy lean 5 star human grade pork mince 1kg, You can buy Turkey breast mince just make sure they’re lean minces, no hamburger minces as they are very high in fat…
I add to 1kg/2.2lbs 1 egg whisked, some fresh chopped parsley about 1 teaspoon, some broccolli heads only a few little heads chopped up broccolli heads, mix all together, later I added 1 small peeled grated carrot but that was after I knew Patch could eat the bland pork rissoles, then I started adding more ingredients but at first only add a few ingredients just incase he has food sensitivities & make the rissole balls into 1/2 cup size rissole balls & bake on foil lined baking tray, bake for 15mins in oven, take the pork rissole out & drain any fat water, then turn over the rissole balls & bake for another 15mins take out, drain any fat/water & look in middle of rissole balls are they cooked & reading, I aslo buy 1 sweet big potato, I peel & cut up into small pieces boil then cool & I freeze the sweet potato pieces & I freeze the pork rissole separate to the sweet potato, then I add 1/2 cup sweet potato & the rissole bals are 1/2 a cup, you mash the sweet potatoes thru the cut up rissole balls or I put all in a blender & blend……

Are you feeding 4 smaller meals a day?
also what dose of Omeprazole is your dog taking?
My Patch just took 20mg Omeprazole in morning when he took twice a day he seem unwell & got a fermenting smell in his mouth so vet said just give the 1 x 20mg Omeprazole in morning but this March I changed his Omeprazole over to Pantoprazole x 20mg after Patch was taking the Omeprazole for 2 yrs, the Omeprazole didnt seem to be working no more & I knew the Pantoprazole works better for me as I take it..
There’s a few PPI sometimes you need to find the right one, dont just stop the Omeprazole, never just stop a PPI, it needs to be very slowly reduced, if he’s taken Omeprazole twice a day then you can be reduced to just the 1 tablet a day thats OK its when you completly stop a PPI..

Make sure you only do 1 new thing or reduce 1 med at one time over 1 week, then the next week you can try something else new, so if he does reacts you know what its from…
I’d be reducing the predisone as it sounds like it isnt helping him & might be making him worse..

There’s Hills I/D Digestive Care Stews Chicken,Vegetables & Rice low fat can food this smells really good it smells like baby food.. another thing you can try is buy the tin Salmon in spring water small tins, drain all water & add 1/2 sweet potato put in air tight container in fridge & give small meal for lunch, dogs normally love fish…Sweet Potato soothes stomach & bowel & firms up poo..

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,

Yes FRESH raw byproduct meats are great if you’re a raw feeder, but when By Product meats are in pet foods I dont think you really know what your dog or cat is really eating as you’ll see if you watch the video Ive posted maybe it will explain a bit more…

It’s best if you buy some raw beef hearts lightly cook them & slowly introduce a little bit of heart as a daily treat, I’ve been thinking of doing this as treat thru the day for cat & Patch, I always see all the organ meats reduce in supermarket, 1/2 price around 50c to 1$….
Best not to cook the raw organ meats, cooking destroys up to 2/3 of the taurine content in foods. So lightly cook..

Beef heart is incredibly rich, so feed it as an organ meat not a muscle meat in a raw diet.
Only add about 1 oz per meal for a 70 lb dog. Do not overfed it as it can cause diarrhea When you cook the raw organ meats it destroys up to 2/3 of the taurine content in foods.

Poor Patch learnt the hard way when he ate heap of very big Liver Treats, when I first rescued him…the rescue group had given me the liver treats & Patch decided to steal them & eat the small bag..He had diarrhea all night the poor thing…

By Product meats these Pet Food Companies get & use wouldnt be separated so the good bits are probably mixed with all the rotten bad meats & other things..
Chicken would probably be the best in dry kibbles & in wet can foods, to fed & be fresh & a good qualitity…also chicken is very cheap…so these pet food companies wouldnt really need to buy by product chicken…. if you watch the link below I’ve posted Dennis the Whistle blower talks about saving 2 live chickens after then survived the chop at the meat plant… same thing happened when my X husband brought home a chicken that he found running out onto the street of a factory she missed being killed, I gave her to a neigbour & her daughter took her she lived out her days on a farm & was a good egg layer once she became healthy…
I asked a Hills rep one day, why does all the Hills premium & vet diets only have Chicken as the meat protein, (this is in the Australian Hills formula’s), she said cause Chicken is the easiest meat to digest & chicken is cheaper….

Watch this video when you have a spare 8mins
Dennis a whistle blower tell the 7.30 Report ABC whats in our pet foods we feed our pets
“Plastic and other bits of rubbish put into pet food, insider reveals”
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/plastic-and-other-bits-of-rubbish-put-into-pet/9887958
When you see ingredient list that read like this
Meat and Meat meals (chicken, beef, lamb and/or pork)…..

But I cant understand how are these meat meals separated into Lamb Meal, Chicken Meal, Kangaroo Meal, Salmon Meal, Pork Meal… I know we have about 5-6 big Meat Plants in Australia maybe some of these other big meat plants sell the separate meat meals to pet food companies, Here’s another video, when pet foods were tested they were not the meat proteins it said in the ingredient list.. If Patch could eat a raw home made or cooked diet, Id feed a home made raw this way I know what he is eating..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020431/

Your question about Kangaroo meat, about 1yr ago a representative from Zignature was answering people questions on DFA Review Zignature section cause Anon101 had taken over Zignature Reviews & wreaking havoc, I thought I will emailed Zignature & I asked Zignature who does Zignature buy their kangaroo from, a man from Zignature email me back, he said Zignature sends over their own American hunters to kill our wild kangaroos & they bring back the dead wild kangaroo’s, straight away I knew this is a BIG lie you cant come into Australia & kill our wild life then take it out of the country?? He’s been watching too many Crocodile Dundee movies, lol
The only company that exports raw Kangaroos is “Marco Meats” in South Australia or the only other way Zignature would get their Kanagroo is to buy it in meal form which I think this would be the best way for dry kibbles then the pet food companies add Lentils or chickpeas to push the protein % up so people think they’re getting more kangaroo meat…

There’s a really good Kangaroo dry pet food called “Vetalogia” Kangaroo Adult, I know Vetalogica was lauched Superzoo 2017 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
you’d be getting more Kangaroo meat cause its Kangaroo meal then Chicken meal, contact the American Vetalogica- https://www.vetalogica.com/
ask for samples, just say your dog is very fussy eater & does Vetalogica have sample you can try & see what they say..
I tried the Vetalogica about 3 months ago, I think Patch can’t eat Tapioca he starts dragging his bum on carpet rug & scratching when he eats any dry kibble that have tapioca in it them….. here’s the ingredient list for the Vetalogica Kangaroo Adult formula.. https://www.vetalogica.com.au/collections/vetalogica-naturals-grain-free-dog-food/products/copy-of-vetalogica-naturals-grain-free-lamb-adult-dogs

[Linda K]

Thank you, Amelia. I couldn’t find the turkey recipe on Chewy. The beef recipe is probably more popular, and after I get my boy all weaned to the new food, I’ll order some beef recipe too. The turkey recipe is $13.35 cheaper for 10 pounds on PetGuys than on the Real Meat Company web site. Somewhere I read not to feed “exotic” foods like kangaroo, and I don’t think his belly or his skin like chicken. I do mix in some organic fruits and veggies sometimes. He really doesn’t seem to care for blueberries or apples, but he’ll eat bananas and cantaloupe. He loves green beans, broccoli, and cauliflower, but they give him horrendous gas, so I usually stay away from those. He loves carrots, so I often buy the diced bags and soften them in the microwave before I feed them to him. I hope he likes this new food, too. He has an annoyingly snooty history of refusing to eat that which would make me very happy!

Probiotics have been a source of much consternation to me. My vet, of course, swears by a Purina brand, Fortiflora, but I’ve never been terribly impressed with Purina in general, or Fortiflora specifically. My daughter has a black lab, and she swears by Fido-vite flexx, but I am not impressed with the ingredients. But she also feeds Purina Pro Plan sport, and says “everyone” where she lives feeds Purina Pro Plan to their black labs. I’ll try the probiotics brand you suggest and hope we like it better.

What is the difference between taurine whole blood value and the taurine value my dog had? Is the normal range breed-specific or size-specific, or is it an entirely different value?

Thank you for the reminder to SLOWLY wean. I am so eager to get him off the Zignature, that I might plunge headlong into the new food and miserably regret it.

I feel quite sure your Golden is OK. For all the reasons you mention, and because you know your dog, and you know what to watch for. Please keep me posted.

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
this happened with Patch at all the local parks in our area, the council men would spray the grass & weeds at all the parks every 3 months & they only put up their weed spraying signs saying they are spraying & have the name of the weed killer poison that they were using at each end of the walk ways, then when they were finished they take down their weed poison signs & leave so if you came a few mins or hours later you wouldnt have a clue there’s poison every thru the park where the dogs walk on the grass & sniff & this poison gets absorbed thru their paws or they lick their paws 🙁

Did you end up trying a new dry food or you were going to re feed Pro Plan Lamb & Rice formula but you were worried to retry it again??
What dose was he taken when he took the Metronidazole? with Patch I have to do very low dose 200mg with a meal twice a day every 12hours then after 4-5 days I just give him 1 x 200mg Metronidazole tablet at night with his meal then he goes to sleep…

I’m looking thru Patches IBD note pad, I use to write things down when another dog in the IBD group had similar IBD problems like Patch had…
here’s other drugs that are used for dogs with IBD but the dog reacted to Metronidazole & dog can not take the Metronidazole.
Sulfasalazine
Olsalazine
Secnidazole or Tinidazole
Doxycycline,
but my vet told me there is NO drug the same as Metronidazole that has an anti inflammatory & antibiotic in it?

Holistic meds instead of using Metronidazole.
“Colloidal Silver” from health food store, Colloidal Silver is suppose to help anything bacterial, fungal or viral, upset stomach instead of giving the dog Metronidazole or there’s L-Glutamine, Licorice root but Ive never tried the Holistic meds, Lew Olson swears by L-Gutamine she has her “K-9 Nutrition” F/B group, I never tried the holistic meds cause Patches vet ended up talking to another vet & he said to re try a very low dose Metronidazole for a 17kg dog & said to give Patch 250mg Metronidazole twice a day every 12 hours with a meal, so now when needed I just give 1 x 200mg Metronidazole tablet twice a day when Patch first starts the Metro then I reduce in 3-5 days to just 1 x 200mg Metro tablet Patch poos dont go good straight away, his poos are yucky for 5-10 days then after I’ve stop the Metronidazole he starts to do 2 perfect poos again…
I found this really good information, research done on small & large breed dogs the other day in the files of my”Dogs With Inflammatory Bowel Disease” – Raw Feeding & Holistic Support ” F/B group..

when you have a quiet 15mins read thru all this
REVIEW ARTICLE
Digestive sensitivity varies according to size of dogs:
a review M. P. Weber, V. C. Biourge and P. G. Nguyen
Royal Canin Research Center, Aimargues, France..

After reading the review I now I understand why Patch who is only a medium size breed dog does really well on “Large Breed kibbles” they are made for a large breed dogs stomach & bowel, to prevent large breed dogs getting bloat & other intestinal problems…

Have you ever tried a Large Breed dry dog food that was grain free & had Potatoes, no Lentils or Chickpeas? the “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula is really good or another dry food that has similiar ingredients & has high Protein, low/med Fat, Fiber & low Carb % low Kcals per cup, I was always scared to try over 30% for Protein but Patch seems to d better with less carbs…
I hope this link works it explains why small breed dogs & large breed dogs need different dry diets. here’s a bit of the Review.

For a large breed dog, the general goal is to limit any ingredient that could increase the level of fermentable undigested residues and, in fine, exacerbate colonic fermentation. Highly digestible sources of proteins and starches are therefore strongly recommended to maintain an optimal digestive tolerance…
Fermentable fibre sources (i.e. beet pulp and FOS) must also be used in limited quantity in their diet. Conversely, the incorporation of non-fermentable fibre (i.e. cellulose) appears useful to increase their stool quality. It’s a really good read, I hope this link works, it worked when I posted it on f/b for another lady whos dogs is pooing too many poos & is doing sloppy/jelly poos….
Patch didnt do well when Patch was only eating the Purina Pro Plan OptiDerma, I had to put him back on the Wellness Core Large Bred & the next day perfect poos..

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Digestive%20Sensitivity%20and%20Dog%20Size.pdf?token=AWxdS0LAtYflktKtk13bU2vfu6buTNCdW6HuK-ODXVMRA1UBaouyR1S_TfaVGEbXbIpp2p6fRZXdmszsoTwQZGhNeoDyb0W9R_0CvuF-OKim0TaYxFpqxeGUiMAul6fOw942a71TqDuB7PAfHWAjeqQEF40Ftp4UF-2VFrylY3uo-A

[Susan]

Hi Sarah,
Doesn’t sound like he is aggressive or needs ANY anxiety drugs these drugs can make some dogs anxieties worse…
He needs to see a Animal Behaviourist they’re normally at Vet practices, the behaviourist will teach you how to react & what to do & help correct his behaviour, also you need to read all the signs before he has a full on anxiety attack & runs across a road & gets hit by a car… they will teach you how to relax him & reassure him that everything is OK, speak to him in a calming voice, he’s like a scared little 3yr old boy…
Softly touch & caress around his ears & head this relaxes a dog, when you see he is becoming uncomforable remove him from the situation, walk him away & tell him, “Abe it’s Ok we are going home now, it’s Ok”, home is his safe place or if you drove in car somewhere, then the car is his safe place, my boy runs to the car when he feels scared or threaten but Patch always runs to the wrong grey car lol…
When Patch was taking low dose of Metronidazole for more then 1 month he started acting very scared, having anxiety attacks, he was real paranoid, scared of his own shadow…it was awful watching this happy out going friendly dog become so scared, now he can only take very low dose Metronidazole no more then 21 days..

“Routine”, I read you take him for walks, he needs to be in a stricted routine, dogs are very routinal they feel safe when they know what is instore for them daily…Feed same times, walked same time, go to bed same time etc.

When he goes for his daily walks, make his walkies, happy time avoid any of his triggers, its good he’s getting out & about, walk him the same time & walk the same route or have 2 routes,so he gets to know everything on these walks, he will feel safer & confident & get to know all the same dog smells etc & he’ll probably pass the same dogs everyday, when you see another dog or human approaching you both, watch him to see when he sees the other dog approaching, then start reassuring him, tell him “Just keep walking, its OK Abe, its all OK”, before you pass the other dog or human, then if he was a good boy then reward him with a treat, reward his good behaviour in a happy excited voice telling him he’s a good boy, for treats just bring some of his dry kibbles if he eats dry dog food use these as treats, then tell Abe, in a very happy voice, “GOOD BOY see it was OK, your OK Abe” always reassure him, then when you see he feels OK walking past a certain dog that he sees daily & he doesn’t tuck his tail inbetween his legs or lowers his head no more, then ask owner next time they pass each other can they quickly met as long as the other dog is a calm dog, then let these 2 dogs met while walking side on, for a quick 10-20sec a quick sniff then thats it, as Abe may start to get anxious, but before they meet, you say to Abe “do you want to Say Hello Abe” always use these words “Say HELLO Abe” then he learns when you say ” Do you want to Say Hello Abe” it will be OK, everything is alright as long as things turn out good all the time, he needs to gain his confidence, he has no coinfidence….
I rescued a Boxer she was 18months old & she had NO confidence, on her pound notes it stated, Can NOT cut her tail & must go thru RSPCA animal behaviourist training, NO male owners… The animal Behaviourist will met Abe & you at your home or at the vet office which ever is best for Abe so probably home & go for a walk with Abe she/he will teach you what to do & say & what not to do & say to Abe… never touch a dogs head or body when they have done something wrong, bad, touching is rewarding & your rewarding bad behaviour only touch & caress when the dog has done something good, then touch the dogs head face & tell them what they have done that was good in a happy tone voice, when he is very scared & needs to be relaxed make him sit & caress his ears & head & tell him “its OK Abe” but when he is barking at someone do not caress his head or body do not touch him as this is bad behaviour barking take him away from the situation ASAP, I see it all the time at the park, a dog will be barking or go to bite another dog while walking past & the owner touches their dog head & says no, this is confussing to the dog, he is getting mixed messages from his owner.. the Animal Behaviorist will teach you all this…
Humans give their dog mixed signals & confuse the dog from right & wrong, you need to learn what a dogs “Dogs Body Language meanings” you can google it..
also never scold your dog for any bad behaviour specially when he is having a anxiety attack & feels so scared & threated, calm him, massage his ears & head & speak calming to him….

Here’s 2 f/b groups where you’ll get some support..

“Treating Separation Separation Anxiety In Dogs”
https://www.facebook.com/SeparationAnxietyDogs/?__tn__=HHH-R

“Canine Separation Anxiety Support Group”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/553897281459012/

[pacer1978]

Hello,
Sorry if this is too much detail, but I’d really like to explain the issue from beginning to end. Please bear with me.

I’m a pet owner that believes in overall health of my dog, which includes dental cleanings. I have a Weimaraner that has gone under anesthesia in the past, including other dental cleanings. Though the day of the surgery, she showed some anxiety and “dopiness” coming out of the anesthesia, she handled it well and was usually back to normal the next day. Recently, as of Monday 8/27, at 9 years old, she underwent another dental cleaning. Because of her age, we did do a blood panel. Monday we picked her up and she did have some pacing and whining as she probably still had some lingering affects of the anesthesia. She ate dinner (1/2 can of wet food, Costco Kirkland grain free). By night time she was pretty much fine and slept the night through. The next morning, we had our usual routine of using the bathroom, feeding, then me getting ready for work. She was completely fine from what I saw between 5am-7:00am. Her breakfast was a little dry kibble and 1/2 can of wet food (I alternate cans between two different brands so this was American Journey). She ate about 6:45-7:00. When I left for work, about 7:45, I noticed she was pacing downstairs, lightly drooling, and panting. This is not normal behavior because she usually stays in the chair asleep upstairs until my husband goes to work. A little odd and abnormal from her day to day behavior, but nothing too alarming. I did let my husband know of her behavior and asked him to check on her in a few minutes, but then left for work. Within about 30 minutes, he called to say he felt something was definitely wrong with her because she seemed to have jumped on the bed, but then seemed confused on how to get down. She seemed a bit glassy-eyed and disoriented. He stated that she was walking in circles. The panting and pacing continued, along with her drooling. He called the vet and we decided to drop her off there for observation, with the understanding that it could still just be the effects of the anesthesia, even though it seemed the night before she was OK.

Fast forward…her condition didn’t change while at the vet, but they looked her over and didn’t find anything wrong with her. They felt that it was just anxiety. We took her home Tuesday night and she ate dinner like normal (dry kibble mixed with some wet canned, I think this was back to the Kirkland brand). I was able to get her calm until bedtime, and she then slept like a rock. The next morning she seemed back to normal.

Fast forward…last night. She seemed quite fine all day Wednesday, but right when we were about to go to bed (10-10:15pm), she had the same issues. She was on the ottoman in our bedroom and couldn’t figure out how to get down. The pacing ensued, with light drooling (not really much), glassy eyed, and panting. She was just restless. She finally went to bed and laid down about 11pm. She slept all night and seemed fine again this morning (Thursday) when I woke up. Again, our typical morning routine of letting them out and feeding them. This morning she only had dry kibble. But again after I left this morning, she had some of the same issues. Not too much of the panting and drooling, but the weird pacing and restlessness.
Has anyone experienced these issues after anesthesia? It should be completely out of her system by now so I’m wondering if it is another issue. On the other hand, she was perfectly healthy with no issues before the cleaning on Monday. Right now, my husband is telling me that she is sleeping hard and is calm. By the way, she has bowel movements, so no problem there. I feel like she is eating a bit more ravenous than normal, but from missing a meal then only receiving a smaller meal than normal after the cleaning, I figured that may be why. I’m at a complete loss as to what to do. Could anesthesia trigger neurological (if that is what this is) issues in a dog? Or could there have been something underlining going on? We had already had our vet look her over after the cleaning only to say it is anxiety. When we touch her all over, she doesn’t whine or grimace in pain. Any ideas?? Sorry for such a long post and thank you for anyone that is still reading!

[joanne l]

Hi, Angela it seems that the foods you mentioned are grain free, try a grain in diet with less fiber. I don’t know what protein the dog is on, but there is holistic select you can try ask your vet about that one. Look on their web site and see the formulas it is for digestive health and you can also review it on chewy. For right now try adding some white rice to her diet. Oh and ask the vet about probiotics. There is one called Forti flora on chewy’s web site read about that. I am using that right now and it works. Hope it works out for you.

[Angela S]

i posted on here a couple of months ago about my dog. she often has soft poop that is difficult to pick up out of the grass. a reader on here suggested upping the fiber content. i did that; i am feeding her american journey salmon and rice with 6% fiber. it does not seemed to have helped. i want to change the food anyway, because it has peas and pea protein, and i want to get away from beans after the stories I’ve heard about the possible relationship with heart issues and beans in diets. Before this food, she was eating whole earth farms chicken and turkey grain free. her poop was still pretty soft on that. before that, she ate royal canin SO (crystals in urine causing blood in urine and sometimes issues with holding urine), which i took her off of after feeding it to her for 8 months. the vet said i could try her on the SO food for a while and take her off to see how she does. she’s been off of it since june 2017 and has not had issues with her bladder. any suggestions as to what could be causing the issue with the poop? we have a vet appointment in September, so i’m definitely talking to my vet about this, but wanted to get feedback from folks on here with their experiences/suggestions. thanks!

[haleycookie]

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with feeding a dog cat food except the reasons already stated. Size of the food and especially the price. You said “dogs” with an s right? Well rememeber quality cat food rarely has bags bigger than 12 lbs. I see fromms biggest bag of cat is 15 lbs. for 50$. Thats a lot of mouths to feed for 50$. If you have dogs and cats you’ll be burning through that bag within a week. Maybe week and a half. The average 22-30 lbs bag of regular quality dog food costs 50$. If you have the money for it then go for it. But I would email them first about vitamin levels. Dogs and cats require different things so they might have different vitamin levels which is something I’d be worried about. Especially since vitamin deficiencies can be really dangerous and usually don’t show until it’s too late.

[Patricia A]

I give both Stella Chewy’s and Primal freeze dried as a topper. I used canned as a topper before I started with the freeze dried. I could never give any recipe with beef because it resulted in diarrhea after the second day. Same thing happens with a little topper of steak if it happens to be a fattier cut of meat. So I conclude that it’s too much fat . Don’t want to take any chances with the freeze dried so I just stick to lean proteins such as Rabbit, duck, venison. No problem with Stella’s Salmon and cod topper either. I don’t bother with any chicken recipes since I buy antibiotic free, organic for what it’s worth and shred that as a topper twice a week.
I was always confused by the advisors reviews with giving some recipes of the same brand a 5* rating and others like 2. But if you read further he always states that SOME recipes might not be suitable for every dog because of their fat to protein ratio. So that is what I go by when I pick the proteins. Always the 5 stars that are lower in fat.
As for affordability it doesn’t break the bank since they’re chihuahuas . My sixteen year old will not touch anything besides home cooked, when I have it and her canned Health extensions in chicken as a kibble topper. Kibble being Fromm or Stella’s small breed. Also with the freeze dried, being a very dense food, I believe if I gave the amount they suggest on their feeding guidelines they would be very fat.So it will last longer since a little does go a longer way then believed. . I do want to try Bixbi Rawbble in duck. Very expensive but after going through enough canned food that the one picky one wouldn’t eat and wasting so much each day I think I’m actually SAVING money now with the freeze dried.
Would like to go one day all freeze dried but just haven’t gotten there yet. I do give less and less kibble as a base though.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[doginlaw]

Thank you! I’m glad your dog is feeling better on the wet food! I talked to the vet about possible allergies and I still want to get him tested for them eventually. The other thing the vet mentioned was that the last time he had blood work done, his thyroid levels were low but they couldn’t tell if that was due to hypothyroidism or something else. (He’s also had some difficulty losing weight, even with a reduced amount of the Nulo senior food, but again it’s hard to tell if that’s his thyroid or he just hasn’t been active as much because of his hip dysplasia.) They took some blood for a thyroid panel so we’re waiting to hear back about that. I have heard that hypothyroidism can cause skin issues in dogs as well.

I unfortunately didn’t get a chance to ask about the best time to give him the taurine supplement, but the vet did recommend 1000 mg twice a day and mentioned “adding taurine to his meals” so I’m guessing it’s OK to give with food. (As an aside, something I’ve learned working at Pet Valu is that they do test the nutrient levels in their private brand, Performatrin, and they add taurine to their dog food if it doesn’t already contain a certain amount. We’ve had a few customers come in worried about grain-free food and heart disease and that was the company’s answer, so I thought I’d share that too in case it’s useful to anyone.)

The other thing the vet recommended was keeping him on a fish-based food because of the omega-3s. He’s crazy about anything with fish, so hopefully no problem there. 🙂

[Susan]

Hi Chloe,
Best to get her into a strict routine, eat same times, walk same times etc, dogs love routine & she’ll start to stress less & start to relax more, have you heard of “Rescue Remedy” drops? the human & the dog drops are the same, put 1-2 drops on her tongue morning & night, my Patch is a stress head & stresses himself out, he was diagnosed with Colitis when I first rescued him Nov 2012, age 4yrs old, he was pooing sloppy poos, jelly poos, poos with streaks of red blood thru the poo, he was put on vet diet Royal Canin, Hypoallergenic HP dry food, but it didn’t seem to help his stomach & bowel made his coat nice shiney, then after trying Hills I/d Digestive Care dry formula’s, we tried “Eukanuba Intestinal” Low Residue dry kibble, it firm up Patches poos, nice small poos, the Eukanuba is low in fiber but the Eukanuba Intestinal made him have itchy, smell yeasty skin problems….
Patches vet said Colitis can be from food sensitivities & all the vet diets we had tried had Chicken, Rice, Oats or Barley etc vet told me to look for a grain free limited ingredient food. I read on IBD f/b group alot of dogs were doing really well “Taste Of The Wild” Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon, this was before TOTW added the Chickpeas to their formula’s, Patches poos were beautiful & firm but he was vomiting up the TOTW Smoked Salmon once a week, back then I didnt know to stay away from fish dry pet foods as they are high in toxins & contaminates, so I started Patch on “TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb” formula & he did great on the TOTW Roasted Lamb formula still does great on the TOTW Roasted lamb formula…..I live Australia & we do not have all the Chickpeas & Lentils in our Salmon & Lamb TOTW formula’s, Legumes can cause Intestinal stress with some dogs who have IBS, IBD & EPI….

Have you tried a limited ingredient dry kibbles that just have 1 meat protein with Sweet Potatoes or Potato?. Potato & Sweet Potatoes seem to firm up poo’s
Have a look at
* “Natural Balance” Potato & Duck LID” it is lower in Fiber -3% has NO peas, No Pea Protein, no chickpeas, no lentils, or there’s “NB Sweet Potato & Bison LID” it is 4%-Fiber & just has Pea Protein or “NB Sweet Potato & Venison LID” it has 5% fiber & has the Pea Protein cause Venison & Bison are both expensive meats, so they add either pea protein, or lentils or chickpeas to up the Protein %, its better feed lean white meats like Turkey Chicken or Pork for dry pet foods & white fish if you’re cooking but no fish in a pet food…..Chicken isnt expensive like other proteins Kangaroo, Venison, Bison, Goat, you’re getting more meat protein & not more plant proteins in your dog food, or “NB Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Small Bites LID” 4%-Fiber, has no peas or pea protein but it has Rice Bran, out of all the NB LID formula’s the Potato & Duck formula seem best, then the Sweet Potato & Bison or Venison formula’s, You wont know until you try one of teh formula’stry & find a Pet Shop who sells the NB or Wellness Simple formula’s, so you can take it back & return, exchange for another LID if she has sloppy poo/diarrhea, I just say to pet staff, Patch is havinngbad gas then diarrhea & now he won’t eat it no more & as long as the kibble bag isn’t empty, pet shops have a Palability money back guarantee…

There’s also the Natural balance LID wet can food, the NB Chicken LID formula has the lowest fat at 3.5%min, you will have to email N/B & ask can you have the max fat % after it’s converted to dry matter, it should be around 10%min-14%max fat, just becareful with wet can foods that aren’t low fat vet diets as the pet shop wet can foods haven’t been converted, so when you see 4% min fat or 5%min fat, when you convert the 5%min fat that’s around 17%min to 26% max fat %…
https://www.chewy.com/natural-balance-lid-limited/dp/33199
Here’s the Natural Balance dry formula’s & ingredients..
alot of dogs who have IBS, IBD do very well on the Natural Balance formula’s the fat & protein isn’t high & N/B has LID…
https://www.chewy.com/s?query=Natural+Balance+LID&nav-submit-button=

My boy does well on this ” Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula.
& this “Wellness Simple” Turkey Meal & Potatoes
https://www.chewy.com/s?query=Wellness+Simple++dry+dog+food&nav-submit-button=

She mighten have been feed a dry food, she may have been feed cooked food what her owner ate?? have you tried lightly boiling Chicken or turkey breast & some boiled Sweet potato or potato & some boiled pumkin? feed 1 cooked meal for 1 of her meals & a dry LID food for her other meals also feed her 3-4 smaller meals thru the day….
Is she in good condition or does she look like she is in bad condition for a 10yr old dog? is her coat nice & shiney, does she have all her fur, no bold patches, does she still have all her teeth, are her teeth still nice & white?

[anonymous]

You can click on the user’s name and then click on “Replies Created” to read posts, you can sometimes pull up “Topics Started” individually by putting the thread title in the search engine.
Otherwise to be a member go here /editors-choice-temporarily-closed/

[Stefanie F]

not sure this is where to post this but I am brand new to website.

How do I become a FULL member so I can read the locked section such as Pet Food Lawsuits and Other Internet Noise?

• This topic was modified 4 years ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[Susan]

Hi,
I just read my emails & I saw Luey Photo’s, if you click on the links in the email that DFA sends then the instagram link works…
He’s BEAUTIFUL, he’s all white & he has small black patch like my Patch has on his left eye & a bit of black on his right ear the same as my Patch has, I watched his video playing & he’s wearing his nappy & purple doggy pants, he looks so cute, soft & cuddly….

I wanted a Frenchie last year so I ran it by Patches vet & she told me, Oh no Susan not that breed, they have way too many health problems, she said you have been thru so much with Patch I wouldnt want you to have to go thru it all over again, she said this breed suffers with Environment Allergies, Food Sensitivities, Stomach & Bowel Problems, Breathing Problems cause of their short snout, becareful on hot days make he’s breathing OK…
My vet said the problem is inner breeding & breeding Frenchie who have health problems, greedy back yard breeders continue to breed sick Frenchies cause they can get $3000 in Australia….My vet said if you do still want to get one go thru a proper registered breeder who isnt breeding sick French Bulldogs…

In 2015, Frenchies were the fourth most popular registered dog in the United Kingdom and in the U.S. the sixth most popular AKC registered dog breed.They were rated the third most popular dog in Australia in 2017.

You posted.

“I was also making him white rice with chicken breast carrots peas spinach and zucchini. That actually constipated him for 2 days then it was back to the soft pieces of poop”.

did you continue to fed the white rice with chicken breast carrots peas spinach and zucchini when he was constiped?? and his poos went back to the soft pieces of poop? or did you change his diet & feed him something else cause he was constipated & you wanted him to poo??
You may have answered your own question, you might have to do elimination food diet with cooked ingredients & do not feed any dry kibble at all & see if you add less white rice can you just get the meal right where he does 2 firm poos?? not constipated & no pieces of poo…
You need a vet who knows alot about Intestinal problems… In Australia we don’t have Specialist vets like in America, our vets who have a passion for certain health problems continue to study about certain health problems & then we pay the same price to see a vet that knows more about a particular health problem, when you ring to book a vet visit we are asked why does your dog need to see a vet? then the lady says Oh I’ll book you in with such & such vet cause he knows about Intestinal health or Skin allergies..
You need a vet that wants to learn more & becomes very interested in whats wrong with Luey & helps him…Like what happened with my Patch…

[Sharlene S]

Hi Acroyali,
Thank you for your kind words and advice. I just measured his little bump. It’s really tiny about 1 inch from the base to the tip. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s because his tail is too short. He’s not a picky eater he’s a vacuum! His nickname is actually piggypup because he tries to eat everything and he snorts a lot! I’ve given him canned pumpkin but no much with that either. I was also making him white rice with chicken breast carrots peas spinach and zucchini. That actually constipated him for 2 days then it was back to the soft pieces of poop.

Susan: hi… I’m a bit confused about his anal muscles. Some vets said they felt muscle tone and some said that they didn’t feel any. I don’t know what to believe! As for how’s many times a day he goes… constantly. When I take him out to talk j I’m the mornings there is already poop I’m his crate. Not sure if he does it while he’s sleeping. Then he lets out a few pieces when he walks. Then later in the evening there’s poop on the floor in his room and he does it again on his second walk.
I’m not sure if frenchies are built to swim. They are too heavy. I looked at the muttscout link you sent me. Thank you! I will contact them first thing tomorrow.
Here is are a few pics of Luey just so you can put a face to him.
This is his first vet visit: https://instagram.com/p/BPNjkJdgBkI/
https://instagram.com/p/BPOH17KgDj9/

Luey a few months later:
https://instagram.com/p/BQGdxplF63t/

This is my favorite pic:
https://instagram.com/p/BSrM3XShuyZ/

[Mike Sagman]

According to Wikipedia, an internet troll is “a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community…”.

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The “Report Abuse” button was installed to help guests alert our moderators about spam or threatening behavior only. It was never intended to serve as a push-button shortcut to expect our moderators to act as your own personal umpire.

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Please don’t feed the trolls — the “others” with whom you find yourself repeatedly arguing. For the “troll” you blame for all your troubles here may actually be YOU.

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[anonymous]

Below is an excerpt from https://www.aaha.org/pet_owner/lifestyle/why-theres-no-substitute-for-advice-from-your-own-veterinarian.aspx

If you’re reading this, chances are, you love your pets—and you know that panicked feeling when you think something might be wrong. Why is he whining? Why is she limping? Is he in pain? Is this something serious? What should I do?
We all want answers fast so it’s tempting to look for clues online. In fact, AAHA receives many, many private messages through Facebook (and sometimes in the comments section of PetsMatter articles) requesting medical advice for a pet. But the response is always: “Ask your veterinarian.” Why?
It isn’t a cop out. Seeing your veterinarian about an issue your pet is having is the best way to care for your dog or cat, says Heather Loenser, DVM, AAHA’s Veterinary Advisor for Professional and Public Affairs. Loenser practices in several specialty, emergency, and general practices in the New York metro area, and lives with a number of rescued dogs, cats, turtles and five pampered hens (Peep Peep, Frofro, Cookie, Arabelle, and Golden, who were named by a 4-year-old girl).
“Without examining a pet and carefully questioning an owner, the advice given over the Internet could be inaccurate and potentially life threatening,” Loenser says. “Although many pet owners are experts in their pets’ day-to-day routines, favorite activities, foods, and toys, they are not experts in their medical conditions. It is not uncommon for a pet owner to make misdiagnoses and ask questions based on said misdiagnoses.”
For instance, pet owners often send messages asking AAHA to recommend a shampoo for a “stinky dog.” Often, the dog’s problem is not a “stinky” body, but a painful—and smelly—ear or dental infection that needs to be treated by a veterinarian.
Reputable online sources for general veterinary advice
When you don’t have an urgent medical situation or a question specific to your pet, but want general information about pet health care, here are some reputable sources to consider:
• AAHA’s Pet Health Library
• Veterinary Partner
• ASPCA Poison Control
• Pet Poison Helpline
• AVMA Pet Care
• American Association of Feline Practitioners – Cat Care
• ePetHealth
• Cornell Feline Health Center
• Indoor Pet Initiative – The Ohio State University
But of course, when in doubt, make an appointment to see your veterinarian. “If your veterinarian is not available, seek care at a local emergency hospital,” said Heather Loenser, DVM. “If you need help finding an AAHA-accredited veterinarian, please use AAHA’s hospital locator tool.”
“Another common question is what medication is best to treat a pet’s seizures. Diagnosing a seizure can actually be quite difficult and there are many other causes, including fainting from heart disease, serious liver disease, or difficulty regulating blood sugar,” Loenser says. “Veterinarians are trained to identify the many causes of a problem that is noticed by a pet owner, make an accurate diagnosis, and communicate the treatment options.”
When you consult the Internet, aka “Dr. Google,” instead of your veterinarian, it can be a challenge to find recommendations based on fact rather than fiction. Online health “remedies” could be ineffective, costly, or even dangerous.
There are also important ethical and legal reasons why a veterinarian shouldn’t give medical advice about a dog or cat they’ve never examined. In fact, AAHA requires a strong veterinarian-client-patient relationship (VCPR) in order for practices to provide quality care for animals.
“Veterinary medical ethics require veterinarians to have a valid veterinarian-client-patient relationship,” says Loenser. “Currently, our profession does not consider online consultations a valid way of establishing a VCPR. Once a veterinarian has examined a pet and is familiar with their care, it is not uncommon for communication to occur over the phone and via the Internet.”
Until that relationship is established, veterinarians cannot respond to online questions about a pet. As Loenser pointed out: “Without a valid VCPR, it is unethical and in many cases, illegal, for a veterinarian to dispense advice.”
If you have questions about something you read on the Internet, don’t hesitate to ask an expert who is truly invested in the health and happiness of your pet, Loenser says.
“It’s what we were trained to do,” she says. “It’s why we went to school. It’s why we get up every day. It’s why we become bonded to our patients and clients, grieving and celebrating with them, throughout a pet’s life.”
Award-winning pet writer Jen Reeder is grateful AAHA has such high standards of care because she wants the very best for her beloved Lab mix, Rio.

[Susan]

Hi Sydney,
have you ever done a food elimination diet with either raw or cooked ingredients?? 1 meat & 1 carb??
this is the only true way to know 100% what foods your dog is sensitive too..

In the beginning one of Patches vets put him on Royal Canine Hyproallergenic vet diet but Patch was still getting his red paws 20mins after he ate also the fat was way too high at 19% also his afternoon poos was very sloppy, So we tried the Hills Z/d Ultra & the same red paws after he ate the Z/d dry kibble, I think it was the Corn Starch in the Hills Z/d formula.. as the meat proteins are broken down so the body doesnt recognize the meat protein in these Hypoallergenic vet diets, so it has to be the binders they are using to bind the hypoallergenic vet diets the dog s react too….
.. In the end I did a raw elimination diet & finally worked out what ingredients he reacts too..

I read one of your post in someone elses post & you wrote your dog is better now on a vegan dog food, when the cooler weather starts to come around when environment allergens arent as high I would now add 1 meat that isn’t too expensive & you can buy like pork & see does your dog start to react?? do an meat elimination diet & I bet you you will find a meat that agree with your dog..

Here’s Farmina dog foods there’s a few formula’s to look thru..
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop-d-Dog-food.html

[Reese B]

Hi Joanne,
I heard from somewhere about Zignature being one of the brands dogs were eating too.(Nothing official, just the rumor mill.) I also read an article about a dog eating a “pork and squash recipe” who got DCM too. To me, that sounded like Acana.

I know it’s not definite prove of what brands are part of the investigation, but it’s enough for me to stay away from them until this is cleared up.

[CatahoulaLove]

I’m terrible at titles, but this website and forum have been such an amazing resource for me over the past few years, so here we go:

I have a 16 months old Catahoula-mix female, Harper, neutered, and active/less active lifestyle. Currently I feed her Victor Ultra 42 dog food, which is high kcal and protein content. Our vet recommended that we lower our protein content because she is not a working dog. So, I’d like to find a food that avoids lower quality grains, limit or eliminates legumes, limits carbs, and limits overall ingredients. After some obsessive research, I am trying to choose between Earthborn Holistics Venture Turkey and Butternut Squash 340 kcal/cup and Canine Caviar’s Open Meadow 541 kcal/cup. I would prefer Canine Caviar based on my readings and ingredients, but I’m concerned that my dog will be starving at getting only 2 cups per day on average with her activity level. With Venture she would eat near 4 cups, split into two servings. Daily requirement to maintain weight determined at 1100 calories from maths at Petnet based on weight, size and activity level.

So, Community, am I missing something important, or am I on the right track? I’d like the food to last as long as possible, but not at the expense of Harper’s health or mental state. Can the higher kcal become more filling without adding too many carbs etc, or is a lower kcal the way to go? I’m not looking to plump up the dog, but rather give the highest ingredients I can afford with the most all around efficiency.

Is there another option aside from RAW, BARF, freeze dried that I am missing with pea/legume free, (mostly) grain free, moderate protein, low carb, no filler, high quality dog food? I live in an area with access to nearly any brand, with online ordering options as well.
Thank you all for reading, and I look forward to reading your thoughts!

[anonymous]

“Please be advised that we not veterinarians. For this reason, this website was never meant to be used as a substitute for sound professional advice”.
“Because the health of your dog can be directly affected by what you read here, you should always consult with a licensed veterinary professional before taking any specific action”.

excerpt from /disclaimer-and-disclosure/

[crazy4cats]

A week or two ago, Anon, you said the FDA alert was BOGUS. Followed up by Legumes Rock! Of course the post has been deleted along with many of your other posts on the review side of this site. It’s not a rumor, Acana was named in a report from UC Davis and I saw Acana and Zignature along with several other foods on the Diet & Taurine Table. Actually a few dogs fed Fromm are also on the table as having low taurine.

http://mckeevervetderm.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/543/2017/09/TaurineDef.Goldens.pdf

Susan K- If you join the Taurine-Deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy FB group, you will see the most up to date spreadsheet for the Diet & Taurine Table. I know someone posted it on this site, but they ask not to republish it. It has been updated since it was posted here.

They are not saying the food has caused the low taurine levels yet. They are just collecting data so far. You might be right, it could just be Goldens tendency to have it. Or could be coincidental that a lot of dogs are just eating grain free foods these days. Who knows?

It’s always been thought that dogs made their own taurine from other amino acids and didn’t need supplementation like cats do. I wonder what is going on with these dogs??? I hope they figure it out soon!

[susan k]

I think some of our alarm over this may be premature. Most of the dogs who’ve presented with DCM are Golden Retrievers. A few others are in the mix who aren’t typically prone to DCM like Goldens are, which is what triggered the alert. The common thread seems to be grain-free and/or exotic diets (kangaroo and quinoa, things like that). I considered home cooking with a good vet-approved supplement, but home diets aren’t ideal — it’s hard to get them right. Most vets recommend AGAINST home cooking and ARE recommending a big-brand grain-included food (Royal Canin, Iams, Purina, etc.) — but 1) most of those foods do have pea/legume ingredients and/or potatoes somewhere in the mix, and 2) most of the cases of DCM (though not all) have taurine deficiency. Low taurine has been pinpointed as the culprit in DCM in cats for many years, and many dog foods now have added taurine. It’s important to note that most dietary taurine comes from meats, not grains — it’s not the lack of grains that’s the problem with grain-free foods, though added potatoes and/or legumes may block or diminish taurine absorption. I feed Wellness grain-free Core (chicken variety) and Koby and I both like it — it’s not full of chemical additives like the big-name brands are (which may be carcinogens), its protein level is high, Dogfood Advisor gives it 5 stars, and it does have added taurine. I have just had Koby (who shows no signs of heart failure or any other health problem) tested for taurine — I don’t have the results back yet but they should be in this week and I will post them. In the meantime, while we wait for more information on what’s really going on here — and unless Koby’s taurine level comes back low or he shows signs of DCM — I’m continuing to feed Wellness Core because it’s AAFCO tested, human grade, good protein level, taurine added, and Koby likes it and has always been very healthy on it. He’s about 4 (he was a rescue and a stray before that) but I’ve had him over two years and he’s been on this food since I got him (and when he was in foster through Cairn Rescue he was on another grain free, don’t remember which) — so he’s been grain-free for quite a while.

One or two of the Goldens with DCM in the UC Davis study were on Wellness Core — but Goldens are much more likely to develop DCM than most other breeds. I don’t recall whether these Goldens were taurine-deficient. Someone on this thread posted the link to the spreadsheet from that study, or at least I think I got it from this thread, but I can’t find it now. I would very much like to find it again — if anyone out there reading this is the one who posted the link, PLEASE post again!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Joanne-
I have fed a lot of grain free WEF, Victor and TOTW along with some Purina, Fromm, Eagle Pack, Iams and Authority with grains. I’ve never thought grain free was necessarily better, but my dogs seem to do better poop wise with a little higher fiber. They had a rough start with parasites when they were pups and tend to have loose stools ever since.

Fromm Gold weight control is not grain free, but is fairly high in fiber and now am wondering if that is an issue now too. I am planning on switching to their reduced activity recipe instead which is a little lower in fiber.

It’s hard to know if there truly is a grain free concern since there is such a small sample of dogs so far. But having two lab/golden mix dogs, I’m going to play it safe. Both breeds are mentioned often in the different reports I’ve read.

I feed my cats about half Royal Canin kibble and half various canned food. RC is a little too expensive for our pet budget for two large dogs, however.

It doesn’t sound like your dog is sensitive to chicken. It’s so hard to tell with kibble because there are so many ingredients. Also, if your dog is anything like mine, they get into things they shouldn’t. Also, environmental allergies can also be an issue. The only way to know for sure is to do a true elimination diet with a hypoallergenic Rx dog food.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Ryan K]

Thanks for getting back! I am still somewhat holding out hope that this is reflux and not neurological. The vet said it could be either but without further testing she wouldn’t be able to say for sure. I am doubtful of them being seizures only because he seems like he knows what he’s doing and he reacts to me. I don’t know though. The gulpies seem to be common and people have such similar stories. :/

His food does concern me though. I feel like this all started happening around the time I decided to start him on a trial of rx science diet ZD for his skin. He got very lethargic and off while on it. I then mixed it up and went over to hills hydrolized protein and he was the same. Kind of acted strange and although both helped his itching…I could tell there was something up with the food effecting his overall well being. It sounds weird but I can’t really explain it. I then started trying new foods and this was when his problems got worse and worse. The Nulo has been good as far as his allergies go but maybe the fat content IS too high? 18% might be too much. I read that dogs with GERD should have low fat. I don’t know how low but 18% is probably too much if it does wind up being GERD. I also noticed that his last attack happened about an hour after I had fed him one of the wet Nulo packets but in chicken and duck. I typically just give him the chicken and salmon or chicken on it’s own but maybe the duck triggered it?? I actually have been thinking back and feel like I had fed him this same packet the previous time he had an incident. Of course, I could be wrong but I feel like I did. Duck sensitivity??

So, no concrete diagnosis. She triggered coughing by rubbing or palpating his neck. She said he is borderline overweight but she said it wasn’t to any point where she would tell me to put him on a diet. She leaned towards neurological as what her gut was telling her his problem would wind up being but she said I could trial him with sulcralfate and cerenia as well as the ID rx food. Hopefully he doesn’t have any attacks soon. I am keeping notes from now on as to when he has them so I can maybe get some solid sense of how often they are happening. I am going to start looking this upcoming week for a more hands on vet that seems more into the animals then the money. I have to figure this out. He can’t keep having these attacks. I hope if it is seizures that I can somehow medicate without expensive mri testing. :/

Fingers crossed.

[anonymous]

Did you ask the vet why a prescription diet was prescribed? I would feed him soft food only if there is an issue with his trachea. Or presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridg.
What other health issues does he have? Did the vet give you a diagnosis?
If the problem is neurological then the food won’t make a difference anyway.

I would stop focusing on dog food ingredients. Just find something that agrees with him.
Ask the vet if you can mix the prescription stuff in with the food that he likes?
Leave a message for the vet to call you back when he has a minute. Have a list of questions ready. As far as I know, most vets don’t charge for phone calls.

PS: Ask for a complete copy of all your dogs records, this is better than having them faxed. You should keep your own records anyway.

You can bring a copy of them with you to the new vet.

[Acroyali]

Also, I’m no expert but I did give a glance to the (http://westierescueoc.com/the_westie_diet)
and I would be OK feeding these diets short term but not long term, as there’s no real balance, no calcium, and a lot of stuff is optional so I do think you’re doing a good thing by noticing a not so well balanced long term diet when you see one.
We wish you and your Westie all the best. I wish I had ideas for canned foods but I don’t. I’m hopeful that some more seasoned members here will add to your thread.
All my best…!

[Susan]

@ Joanne,

click on the link Crazy4cats has posted above, read thru & scroll down to-

“Dogs And Taurine”
Studies are showing that there are likely dietary factors associated with the taurine deficiency in dogs such as dogs that eat rice, lamb, high-fiber, and/or very low meat protein diets. This can point back to the preparation and/or processing methods used, or that many dog foods include meat byproducts, rice, legumes, and soy which are not sources of good meat proteins or any meat protein at all, which means they are not good sources of taurine.

“Why is Taurine Missing”?
In addition, meat byproducts, rice, and plant-based proteins are not good sources of taurine. If your pet food has high quantities of these types of items, it likely means your dog is not getting the taurine it needs to be healthy.
With so many foods going grain free, manufacturers are substituting the grain with things like lentils, soy protein, and chickpeas. These types of foods do not provide taurine to sustain good health.

“Taurine Naturally in Foods”
Muscle meats contain higher levels taurine; the more work the muscles do, the higher the taurine level. Dark meat of chicken and turkey are naturally high in taurine.
Shellfish, white fish, and cold water fish such as salmon or sardines are also very high in natural taurine.
Taurine is not found in fruits, vegetables, rice, corn, oatmeal, rye, wheat, or barley

* You have to remember a dog has a short digestive tract made to digest meat, not heap of grains & legumes…

Patches IBD Vet Specialist told me this.
A dog has a short digestive tract, made to digest meat & when a dog eats any off meat it’s quickly passed thru the stomach into small bowel then large bowel so no bacteria can start to breed……. On 1 of our visits to see Patches IBD vet, Patch had vomited a few times in 1 week, I was worried but Patches IBD vet told me,
When a dog vomits it’s not a bad thing Susan, it’s very common with wild dogs they regurgitate their food, it’s very easy for a dog to have a vomit, due to the short digestive tract, especially if he is feeling unwell in the stomach also when the dog eats something thats bad & doesnt agree with the dog then the dog can bring it back up himself…

Meat Protein is easier for a dog to digest then any grains….DFA post this in the Food Review section…
Raw meat is easier for a dog or cat to digest, then cooked meat, when you cook meat you kill the digestive enzymes, cooking kills lots of good things..

[Reese B]

Hi guys,
This will be a long post.
So, with the new “grain free scare” I’ve been thinking about trying raw or freeze dried raw. I was looking at primal products but couldn’t figure out why the nutrition profiles were so different from their raw vs. freeze dried. On the website they state that their freeze dried is exactly the same as their raw except the moisture is removed. So I wrote them to find out more. Below is my e-mail exchange so far….

ME:
I’m new to raw and looking for a lower fat option. I’m on the fence between raw frozen and freeze dried and was looking over the products on your website to see if any fit the bill of what I was looking for.
I noticed your frozen raw rabbit formula was low fat at 17% protein and 5% fat.
I then looked at the freeze dry formula and was surprised to see the protein is listed at 50% and the the fat is 28%.
When I did the math to convert the frozen formula to a dry matter basis I got that the protein should be 58% and the fat should be 17%

17 / 29 x 100 = 58% for protein

5 / 29 x 100 = 17% for fat

Did I do the math wrong? I don’t understand why the protein and fat is so different on for your frozen vs freeze dried rabbit formula if the ingredient are the same.
If you could explain, that would be greatly appreciated.

PRIMAL’S REPLY:
Thank you for contacting us. I can see how the math can get confusing. The nutritional values on our site are listed on an as-fed basis. Of course you’ll see that when you compare the guaranteed analysis of our freeze-dried formula to our raw frozen formula, the protein and fat levels in the freeze-dried varieties appear to be elevated at first glance. However, the key to understanding this difference lies in the moisture content. Since the moisture has been removed in the freeze-dried product, this causes the protein and fat levels to increase. For best feeding results, we recommend rehydrating with water. The weight of a freeze-dried nugget weighs less than that of a raw nugget because moisture has been removed. Nutritionally, a raw nugget is the same as a freeze-dried nugget when rehydrated or consumed with water.

ME:
I understand that the values are listed on as fed basis…but my question is regarding why the math doesn’t add up from your raw to freeze dried formula. If you re-read my original email you’ll see I’ve done the math to convert you raw formula to a dry formula and the values don’t match what is listed on the freeze-dried product.
If you convert the raw rabbit recipe into a dry matter basis, the protein should be 58% and the fat should be 17%. However that’s not what’s listed on the product. So I’m wondering how did you determine the values for the freeze dried formula?

(EDIT: I didn’t get a reply to the above email, so I wrote to them again.)

ME:
I haven’t heard back from anyone regarding this. Maybe I’m not asking my question in a way that makes sense. Let me try to explain…
I understand that freeze dried food will always have higher nutritional values because the moisture is removed making it a higher concentration, however, the values on your freeze dried product don’t make sense compared to your raw frozen product from a mathematical stand point.
For example, your frozen raw rabbit has a 17% protein and 5% fat. If I convert these to dry matter based on the formula on your blog (https://primalpetfoods.com/blogs/news/guaranteed-analysis-what-does-it-mean) it should be 58% for protein and 17% for fat.
% guarantee ÷ dry matter x 100
17 ÷ 29 x 100 = 58% for protein
5 ÷ 29 x 100 = 17% for fat
However, on your freeze dried rabbit nuggets the protein is listed as 53% and the fat is listed as 28%.
There is no way the fat in the freeze dried product should be that high if it’s the same ingredients/formula as the frozen raw. I’ve noticed several other of your freeze dried formula’s are listing fat at a much higher percentage than it should be.
Please explain to me how you are getting the values for your freeze dried products.

PRIMAL:
I apologize for my delay in response but greatly appreciate your patience! Please see below for assistance with your conversion:
1. The Protein/Fat content printed on the packaging is usually the exact lab result, and may depend on the source and part of the rabbit tested*.
2. Approximate average figures are generally 3 X Frozen values:
PFF Calculated Frozen : Protein (17), Fat (5) – Approximate – Calculated Freeze-dried : Protein (51), Fat (15) – Approximate
– PFF Actual Freeze-dried : Protein (50), Fat (28) – Actual lab results*(Variability in raw source)
– Customer Calculated Freeze-dried : Protein (58), Fat (17) – Approximate
We suggest using PPF calculated amount to make the final decision.

ME:
Thanks for your response. I’d like to make sure that I understand this correctly. When the lab tested both the raw and freeze dried, they got different values for fat and protein for both formula’s (even though they are the same), because different or fattier parts of the rabbit could have been used in the freeze dried batch?
The approximate average figures are generally 3x the frozen value, but it this case it’s 6x the fat. ( 5% fat in the raw rabbit vs 28% fat in the freeze dried rabbit.)
Do you lab test each batch for protein and fat content, as it seems it can vary considerably.
On the freeze dried product it states that 28% is the minimum fat content, meaning it could be higher, but not lower.
This is where I’m confused because if the raw frozen and freeze dried are essentially the same product (just with moisture removed) the freeze dried variety had a much higher fat content than the raw…meaning different batches have different fat content. So it’s impossible to say that the minimum fat in the freeze dried rabbit is 28%, right? There are batches that could have less fat depending on the source and part of the rabbit tested.
Please let me know if this is correct.

PRIMAL:
While we are required to list guaranteed analysis information in terms of minimums and maximums, the values we’ve chosen to post are not actually a minimum or a maximum. We list the actual values that we receive from our lab tests.

ME:
That doesn’t make sense to me. You’re required to list guaranteed information in terms of minimum and maximum, but you’re choosing not to? I’m not trying to be difficult, I just genuinely don’t understand. Should I disregard the minimum/maximum values on your packaging?
YOU didn’t answer my other questions. Do you test each batch for fat/protein content? How did you decide what is listed on the freeze dried package in terms of protein and fat? Did you test multiple batches and give an average or did you only test one batch and print those results on all of the packaging?
Based on your previous emails I’m assuming that the fat content on the freeze dried product is much higher than the fat listed on the frozen raw product because of “the source or part of rabbit.”
But that being said, in other batches of food a leaner rabbit source could be used making the fat content lower. So am I correct in saying the 28% fat is not the definite minimum and could be much lower in other batches depending on the rabbit source?

(I sent that last e-mail to primal on Aug 2nd, and I have not gotten a reply back since.
Does what they’re saying make sense to anyone? I thought they were required to list minimum or maximum values….any thoughts?)

[Spy Car]

Aimee,

Thanks for the laugh. I do my part for canine health by having my dog get regular exams. My traditional (and very outstanding) vet is exceedingly happy with my Vizsla’s condition.

She is particularly complimentary of my dog’s dental health. It stands in very marked contrast with what she generally sees, and she’s said as much.

And yes, in answer to your question, our vet does thoroughly probe and measure the space between the teeth and the gums looking for any pockets and does a thorough exam of the gums. She says the results couldn’t be more outstanding. There is no sign of periodontal disease.

You are defending a type of feeding where there is massive evidence of a problem. At the same time, you attempt to suggest that those who are feeding diets that promote good dental health (which is clear and demonstrable) are unscientific in their reasoning and you are not. LOL.

It is topsy-turvy, I’m afraid.

I don’t think self-funded studies started by self-selected individuals are the way science works. LOL.

In the meantime, I chose to believe my own eyes. There is no comparison (and I mean none) between the dental health of PMR fed dogs and kibble fed dogs. All the greenies in the world won’t change that.

We already know that 70-80% of kibble-fed dogs have periodontal disease by the time they are THREE. THREE YEARS OLD. That is a horrifying statistic and it can only get worse as dogs become seniors.

Sorry, but you are attempting to defend a losing proposition.

Bill

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Spy Car.

[Diana B]

I’ve always fed my dogs Acana because I came to feel that there were just too many recalls of American-made pet foods and too little oversight of ingredient quality. When the last one died, I went a year before adopting a new dog and just bought Acana for him out of habit. Tonight I had to go get a new bag of food and when I got home, I started reading the package information since the store didn’t have the formula I’d being using. I guess I’ve been out of the loop too long because I didn’t realize Acana had been bought by an American firm and is using mainly American-sourced ingredients.

This is exactly what I don’t want. I frankly do not trust American-made dog foods nor American-sourced ingredients. For my confidence level, there are just too few regulations for pet foods in the U.S., too many recalls of American-made pet foods, and too much factory farming in the U.S. to have confidence in American-sourced pet food ingredients.

So, are there any pet foods still being made in Canada of Canadian-sourced ingredients? And if not, are there any American-made pet foods that I might have reason to trust? Thanks for any advice you have.

[Spy Car]

Hi Aimee,

I think that it is you who had made the classic mistake. You take the absence of evidence as evidence. That is not a valid approach.

Unfortunately, veterinary studies are almost always funded by pet food companies and they have no interest in proving the superiority of a PMR diet in maintaining healthy teeth vs a commercial diet. So there are no studies.

Many will then attempt to argue that “there are no studies that show…” as if that proves anything (when all it shows are lack of studies).

Meanwhile, there are many thousands of well-networked PMR feeders who raise dogs, see with their own eyes all the advantages (which include, but are not limited to, cleaner teeth) and we take our dogs to veterinarians for examinations and get great reports on oral health.

In contrast, 70-80% of kibble fed dogs have periodontal disease by the time they are three. Three-years-old. And it only gets worse. Feeding kibble diet is a virtual guarantee of developing periodontal disease.

It is not the case with a PMR diet. We don’t see that in our community. A community made up of avid dog trainers and some of the most experienced handlers of elite canine athletes. People who know dogs.

It is not true that dogs with periodontal disease won’t show signs as all one need to do is look at the gums for signs of inflammation and health to have a pretty good clue.

The “studies” you referred to are not relevant.

As to tooth damage or tooth wear, it is certainly possible to cause wear or fractures/breakages by feeding hard weight-bearing bones from large animals. That’s why many PMR feeders (like myself) advocate for eliminating so-called “recreational” bones from the diet.

Soft-edible bones (like chicken bones) virtually eliminate both risks to teeth and impactions issues, but anti-raw activists like to focus on items I personally don’t feed as if that’s the only option.

Of course, the visible portion of the tooth is whiter in PMR fed dogs. It is the same at the gum line and below. My vet confirms this at examination time. No hint of the periodontal disease most kibble fed dogs have at his age.

I’m afraid that the improper use of non-germaine studies and the error of the absence of evidence as evidence has put you on the wrong side of gauging the reality of the dental health of kibble-fed dogs vs PMR fed dogs. You are simply dead wrong on the issue.

Feeding a PMR diet using soft-edible bones (while avoiding risky weight-bearing bones) maximizes canine dental health. The alternative virtually guarantees periodontal disease.

There are few areas in dog rearing, canine nutrition and health where the contrast between the dreadful consequences of kibble-feeding and a PMR diet is starker. Yet you attempt to accuse me of a non-scientific worldview? Please. Spare me.

You are on the wrong side of all the very clear evidence.

Bill

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Spy Car.

[Linda K]

Thank you, Nadine H, Heidi L, and Crazy4cats! I just spoke to a vet nutritionist who is the daughter of a friend of mine. She said stuff we already know about this issue, including that the FDA as a body really knows nothing about dog food and its ingredients. They are concerned primarily with making sure that what the manufacturer says is in the food is actually in the food, so vets and nutritionists are not really concerned about this admonition from the FDA. However, she added that if AAFCO had made the same possible connection conclusion, “the veterinary world would be on high alert.” In addition, she said that all the dogs affected with DCM that brought about this announcement from the FDA are from the same state, so it is thought that perhaps there was something amiss within that state’s supply. She recommended that I continue to feed my dog Zssentials, at least until more definitive conclusions could be made. She said it might make me feel better if I were to ask my vet for a taurine test, but she said most dogs are “OK” with taurine, and few companies add taurine to the dog food because most dogs don’t need it. It is deficient in cats much more frequently. I shall look into Nature’s Logic. A local pet store gives samples of all the dog food they carry, so I can try it and see if my dog, Mr. Persnickety himself, will even eat Nature’s Miracle. As crazy4cats suggested, it is difficult to make a change when we finally have found a food he will eat, not throw up, AND make his poop textbook perfect.😏

[Hope F]

Anyone out there that is feeding their Diabetic dog something other than the Vet recommended dog food for Diabetes. My vet only says Royal Canin or Hills and I would never feed my dog either brand if he was not sick and now to be forced to is burning me up. I read the ingredients and cringe. He started eating it ok but now does not like the wet Royal at all and the only way he will eat the kibble is with roasted chicken in with it. I would like to switch foods to something with better ingredients but it seems so hard to find out the caloric numbers for foods. they all give you ingredients and analysis but no one can seem to find me the Caloric amount per cup or whatever. So hard to balance it to the 14 units of insulin twice a day they have him on. He is doing ok but it is a fight with a vet who does not want me mixing things with his food to get him to eat it and a dog that will not eat or takes hours to finish. I work and travel for work so having dog sitters have to jump through hoops to get him to eat is a pain. He loves food just not this one. I was looking at like an Orijen Fit and Trim or Merrik . Any sugguestions would be a great help!

[Lori H]

Hi Linda,

My dog Buddy has been through a lot, much like your dog. He is now 11 and during his life he has had surgery on his spleen, surgery for bladder stones, been diagnosed with Diabetes and I was told by my vet that he was suffering from liver failure and was preparing me for the fact that Buddy was going to die. The liver failure diagnosis was over two years and today, he is healthy, happy, looks amazing and has so much energy. I just had him into the vet for blood work and his numbers are almost perfect (350 is perfect, he is sitting at 351)! It has been an amazing turnaround so I know how you feel. I basically had to get him healthy myself. My vet did not support my decision to do what I did, but he is healthy and that is all that matters!

I now believe wholeheartedly that most vets know nothing about nutrition. They are told to carry a line of food in their offices by one of the large pharma/dog food companies because most of these companies go out and recruit at the vet universities across the United States when vets are in school and provide them with a kickback when the sell either Science Diet or Royal Canin in their clinics, up to 40%. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my vet, I just don’t believe he knows much of anything about nutrition. He has been great to me, my dog Buddy and my three cats. He is good at what he does, diagnose and perform much needed surgeries and procedures. He did Buddy’s bladder stone surgery which has complications.

I was at my wits end as well and thought that I was going to lose Buddy, but I was not willing to give up so I did a Google search and found an amazing person who brought Buddy back to the healthy dog he is.

Buddy is on a very special diet and he has made huge strides in the last 10+ months. He is a very healthy dog to what he was 6 months ago.

I worked with a man named Rick Scheyer. He has an amazing website http://www.doglivershunt.com He has helped many dogs with liver shunt, kidney disease, bladder stone problems and much, much more become healthy dogs again. I would suggest reaching out to him for a free consultation. It might be the answer you need.

If you choose to go with his program, it is not cheap, but I believe that over time, I will save money by not taking Buddy to the vet time and time again because I don’t know what is wrong and having a battery of tests run and racking up bills in the thousands, I have been there!

He was slowly weened off of his processed food Science Diet U/D and placed on a diet of fresh veggies and meat based on a very slow transition to follow with Rick’s help.

Buddy’s diet is a balance of ¾ veggies to ¼ meats. Dogs with liver issues do not need as much protein as you would expect. He gets lots of yellow veggies (squash, tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, celery, carrots, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, etc.) along with hemp oil and nori blended with goat yogurt into almost a smoothie consistency. I then add meats, liver is great as it helps to detoxify the liver (funny that you feed liver to a dog with liver issuesJ) and then he gets a variety of supplements. He receives three gut supplements in the morning (Acidophilus, Bifudus and a Spectrabiotic) along with an Enzyme and something called Whole Body. In the evenings he gets the Enzyme, Whole Body and a Mushroom supplement. The process to make his food is not that time consuming and if you are at your wits end like I was, I was ready to do anything.

He also gets to have as much goat yogurt as he wants with coconut oil. He also gets sweet potato chews and coconut slices.

He is also allowed to eat fruits, not during his morning and evening meals since they digest differently than veggies, but he has not yet warmed up to them yet. I don’t know if he ever will.

He is doing great! He has so much energy and the numbers don’t lie! I got a glucose meter and I am going to start checking his levels daily. I would really like to get him off the insulin if I can. I believe the medicine is what causes the blindness, not the actual diabetes, my vet believes otherwise.

My vet has not said much of anything. I explained I was taking him off the prescription food and putting him on this program and he never responded. When I took him in the last time for blood work, I think he was surprised Buddy was doing so well, but did not ask me further about what I was doing. He is a pretty straight and narrow vet and I don’t think he looks outside the box. If Buddy’s glucose numbers continue to decline, I will take him back and back off on the number of units he is given. Now it is just maintenance and keeping a spreadsheet and monitoring how he is doing.

I suggest reaching out. I think Rick saved Buddy’s life. I took him to the vet in October to have blood work done and he is perfectly healthy!

Let me know if I can be of anymore help.

Good luck on your search and reach out if you have further questions or concerns. It was hard to take the jump and trust someone other than my vet with my dogs nutritional health, but I am so glad that I did.

Lori

[Susan]

Hi MJ E,
Sounds like Envrionment Allergies, our weather has gone mad & so have our dogs with bad Allergies, my vet said, she is seeing more & more dogs come in with Environment allergies these days…
The best thing you can do is stick to a strict routine, bath twice a week or weekly baths when skin is good not itchy, bath in a medicated shampoo like “Malaseb Medicated shampoo, the days I don’t bath I use baby Wipes, Huggies Cucumber & Aloe baby wipes & I wipe down Patches stomach area then I get a new baby wipe & wipe his head,mouth, then new wipe & wipe his paws etc when he’s been out doors & on walks.

Another thing that helps my boy are creams, I use “Sudocrem” its an Anti-Bacterial, Anti-Fungal, Healing cream for Eczema, Dermatitis, Nappy Rash & it relieves itchy skin & paws & also protects skin & paws from allergens… at night before bed I check out Patches paws, stomah etc wipe him down with a baby wipes again, then I apply either Sudocrem or a Cortisone 1% cream on any itchy red areas…

Have you tried Cytopoint Injections yet? they’re the best less side effects for environemnt allergies…

“How CYTOPOINT helps reduce itch and allow damaged skin to heal”

CYTOPOINT is different from traditional drugs that treat itch. It is a biological therapy—a type of non-pharmaceutical treatment that works like your dog’s immune system. CYTOPOINT contains engineered antibodies very similar to natural dog antibodies. Antibodies are what an animal’s immune system uses to defend the body against infection or disease.
In this case, the antibodies in CYTOPOINT have been designed to specifically target and neutralize one of the main proteins that sends itch signals to your dog’s brain.
This helps reduce scratching so the skin has a chance to heal.
CYTOPOINT is an injection that your veterinarian gives your dog once every 4 to 8 weeks, as needed.
In studies, after one injection, CYTOPOINT started controlling itch within 1 day, and kept itch controlled for a month or longer. CYTOPOINT also helped damaged skin begin to heal within 7 days…

I live Australia & we are still waiting for Cytopoint to be approved here in Australia, hopefully Cytopoint will be here for this Summer.. Im worried about trying Apoquel with my boy, he has IBD but my vet said she is finding some of her IBD dogs who have Skin problems aswell are doing really well on Apoquel, she said it also helps their IBD when dog is having a bad flare….

If you on f/b search for “Canine Skin Solutions” f/b site is run by Dermatologist Karen Helton Rhodes, pop in & have a read…
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1563654607200747/

Here’s one of her links a Skin Sympton Checker
http://www.healthyskin4dogs.com/skinsymptomchecker/

Keep us posted what ends up helping your dog.

[Angela S]

someone on this forum told me to try upping fiber in my dog’s diet. my dog was having the same issue-she wasn’t having diarrhea. Her poop had shape to it, but it was too soft, would stick to the grass and it was difficult to pick up. i switched to a food with 6% fiber. she has been eating american journey salmon and brown rice. she’s only been on it for a month or less. her poop seems to be firm now most of the time. of course, now i’m wondering if i chose the right thing, because one of the main ingredients is peas, and i’m worried about what peas can do, as I’ve been reading there is a possible connection between peas in the diet and heart issue. i’m upset that there are so many controversial ingredients and no one can agree on what a good food is. it makes you wonder what is really good for our dogs??

[HoundMusic]

Since this old thread has been resurrected I’ll add in my two cents. I am not someone who blames food every time the dog gets a sniffle, nor am I of the belief the trendy, “holistic” foods are inherently better than the supposedly low end brands. In fact, I started feeding Science Diet around 2009, after a disastrous stint with Wellness. Early in 2013, the bags/formula changed, and, long story short, from about April-July of that year I had five dogs suddenly develop terminal diseases. Four cancers, one degenerative myelopathy. Five mostly unrelated dogs getting sick in a three month period is not coincidence.

[Susan]

Hi
I think people are confusing these health problems caused by Legumes with Potatoes aswell…
Earlier this month, the Food and Drug Administration announced that it is investigating a link between these newer Exotic protein, high Legume Grain Free diets with a common type of canine heart disease, DCM.
FDA also mentioned Potatoes awell but I think Potatoes were only mentioned cause these newer grain free kibbles have Peas, Chickpeas & Potatoes, or they’ll have Peas, Green Lentils, Red lentils & Sweet Potatoes….
So Potatoes were mentioned on the FDA report??…
“Guilit by association”
I have seen NO proof that it’s potatoes blocking taurine & causing heart problems in dogs?
If anyone has any proof that potatoes are blocking taurine causing deficiency of Amino Acid Taurine in Dogs.
Please post this proof..

When G/F kibbles first came out years ago they all had Potatoes & Sweet Potatoes & there were NO health problems in dogs..
There’s kibbles that have healthy grains & potatoes, these kibbles have caused no health problems, these health problems happened since these newer G/F kibbles were very high in Legumes…
Types of Legumes
Chickpeas.
Beans.
Peas.
Lentils.
Lupins.

Royal Canine & Hills make vet formula’s that contain Potatoes but they do not have any vet diets containing Legumes..???

Potatoes are not related to Legumes.
Legumes are the fruit or pod of the botanical family Leguminosae. The potato tuber (Solanaceae family) is actually the greatly enlarged tip of the underground stem of the potato.
Potatoes are a Tublr plant with notable tuberous roots include sweet potato, cassava….

If you’re looking for a new kibble look for kibbles that have Sweet potatoes, Rice, Oats, Potatoes, Blueberries, Butternut Squash, Pumkin, healthy grains etc as long as your dog doesn’t have any food sensitivitives to certain grains & ingredients…
Make sure there’s no more then 20% legumes (peas) in the dry kibble, if the kibble has peas just make sure the peas are further down the ingredient list, 5th 6th 7th ingredient & peas are NOT 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th ingredient…

Here’s a kibble ingredient list that I’d avoid, this formula is very high in Legumes….

“Kangaroo, Kangaroo Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flour, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Citric Acid), Flaxseed, Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Pea Protein, Natural Flavors, Salt,”

*There’s Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Chickpeas & Peas, all these Legume ingredients make the protein % higher with Plant Proteins, Kangaroo is expensive so there’s more plant proteins, then meat proteins also look at ingredient spliting with peas? peas are 3rd ingredients, then again Pea Flour is 5th ingredient, then pea protein is 11th ingredient, if they didn’t split the peas up then the peas would probably have been 1st or 2nd ingredient…

also rotate your kibbles with different brands, so your dog has variety in his diet, if 1 brand of kibble does have something wrong with it, your dog isnt eating this brand long enough to cause any health problems cause your rotating his diet….

Look at Freeze Dried raw aswell, there’s some good freeze dried dog foods, the freeze dried ingredients are not cooked at very high temperatures like kibble is made so the nutrients stays in the ingredients….

“Ingredient spliting” is a trick these Pet Food Companies do, they split the peas up, in the ingredient list, pea flour, pea protein, pea fiber, when you see these ingredient avoid these dog foods as they are full of peas, the peas are really the 1st ingredient but cause they have split the peas into pea flour, pea protein, pea fiber, then the peas move further down the ingredient list but really the peas are 1st ingredient & your meat protein is probably 3rd ingredient….
Ingredient list are written when ingredients are raw, not cooked, these pet food companies know all the tricks & cons so we buy their foods, we just have to be smarter then them & learn how to read an ingredient list..

Please post kibble brands & their formula’s that are legume free or 20% or less in legumes, to help people that dont know what to feed till we get more answers..
Please no nasty posts…

[Lauren H]

Bobby Dog, thanks for the feedback. There aren’t a whole of people mixing the two, so it’s good to hear that someone is having success with it with their own dog.

Pitlove- I’ve heard some good things about Victor and will look into that brand, thank you! I recently read an article about the possible link between grain free kibble and DCM in dogs. Scary, will definitely be staying clear of the grain free until they can figure out what’s causing it.

Thanks again everyone!

[Lauren H]

Thank you so much for all the replies!! Great to get others opinion and experience. I still go back and forth on feeding raw but have seen so many improvements with all three of my dogs in doing so. I’m receptive to veterinary ‘science’, but I also understand that there is a lot of influence and funding coming from these commercial foods as well. Also, most vets have very minimal training in nutrition. My vet is actually an advocate for raw, just wants it to be from a well known and trusted raw dog food company, but even he said that he’s no nutritionist. Sounds like maybe I just need to bite the bullet and pay for quality raw to be safe.

acroyali- thank you for taking such time to write such a detailed response. I was ordering from hare-today but after their shipping prices increased for the summer, I stopped buying from them. I started ordering from raising-rabbits.com instead. Have you or anyone else heard about them or their quality?

Like I said earlier, I’ve seen huge benefits to feeding raw. In my lab mix with Addison’s, before raw, he was drinking a ton of water and I mean a ton! He had horrible breath and he had a lot of tartar on his teeth. My shiba mix would eat about 2 meals worth of kibble and then quit eating eating it either because he was bored or just didn’t like the taste, no matter the brand, protein, etc- we tried it all. My shiba seems to be less anxious too. Our 5 month old puppy was the first dog that we started on raw from 8 weeks raw, she’s done great on raw. No bouts of diarrhea, never gotten sick, and has been a dream to house train.

My vet said that I could mix kibble with the raw to help with the costs. I’ve read a lot of conflicting information on this, any thoughts? I’m certainly open to switching back to kibble but would be hard pressed to go all the way back since my dogs are clearly doing so much better on raw. There isn’t a whole lot of scientific proof on raw feeding but who’s funding these other ones saying that raw is harmful for dogs? Just to be safe though, I think I will stop feeding them grocery store meat and stick with the ones I can buy at a pet store. I’ll check out mypetcarnivore as well. How much veggies do you all like to add?

Sorry this ended up being so long but again, I greatly appreciate your time and responses.

[Eve M]

Honestly, I am concerned. I try not to overreact to this constant barrage of new info regarding dog food ingredients, but I’m bothered.

I emailed Stella & Chewy’s about the RAW BLEND – red meat, freeze-dried, baked kibble with freeze-dried raw. Peas are the 3rd ingredient and lentils are 4th. Below is what looks like an automated email response which did nothing to instill confidence.

ALSO, to pile on… if you go to Clean Label Project, foods like ORIJEN get 1 star for contaminants which I’m sure relates to the inclusion of fish. Don’t think Orijen includes peas or lentils.

“I and LOVE and YOU, Lamb and Bison” scored low on CLEAN LABEL PROJECT’s contaminants and high on ingredient quality. Lovely, until I actually read the ingredients… 4th peas and 5th lentils.

All of this feels like literally, PICK YOUR POISON. For some reason, clean label project is being scrubbed by dog food advisor. HMM.

Good luck everyone.

Evelyn

STELLA & Chewy’s email….
Thank you for your email. We are aware of the FDA release dated July 12 regarding a potential association between reports of canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs, and certain pet foods containing peas, lentils, other legume seeds, or potatoes as main ingredients. We have no indication that any of our products are involved in FDA’s investigation. We work closely with veterinarians and nutritionists to ensure that our diets are complete and balanced and meet AAFCO requirements. Please know that our freeze-dried raw and frozen raw diets are free of peas, lentils and potatoes, and contain less than 1% of the legume seed fenugreek. Also, we do add taurine to our raw and kibble diets. We continue to be confident in the safety and nutritional quality of all of our diets. We appreciate the work that FDA does on behalf of pet parents, and will monitor this investigation as it unfolds.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Eve M.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Eve M.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Eve M.

[Acroyali]

I’d keep swimming him and ignore the odd comment suggesting people think you should starve him.
Swimming is low impact, which is excellent on oddly shaped joints, and muscle building.
Building muscle while removing fat is critical here. Swimming will help this along but his stamina will need built which can take a few months, but can certainly be done.
Swimming helps MUCH than walks for weight loss/muscle gain, and is way more fun for most water dogs.
(Don’t go by the scale alone. Take pictures and date them, and take pictures every 2-3 weeks if you have to. One of his entire body side view, and one viewed from above..his back/waist, etc. GOOD weight loss is slow and steady til a plateau hits. Bad weight loss is rapid and is usually water/muscle loss, not what you want with a dog with poor hips. Good muscle supports poor joints.
It may be so gradual that you won’t notice, but in 6 months you may see the original photos and be shocked.)

Most serious dog people who have performance dogs swim them for these reasons.
Think of human PT and physical rehab. Most start with swimming because of the low impact for injured/unwell joints and muscle/calorie burning properties, vs. taking a walk or 30 minutes on a treadmill.
Letting him self regulate as you’re doing IMO is one of the best things you can do. When he’s tired, let him quit, then see if he wants to go again in another hour or so. He’ll build endurance.

[lynette w]

Check the ingredients. They may already include Taurine.

I contacted Wellness as I feed Wellness Core. I am leery of any research done by UC Davis as their studies are often funded by Science Diet, Purina or Royal Canin and they have also had studies regarding petfood in the past hat have been inaccurate.

Here is the letter from Wellness:
ear Lynette,
Thank you for taking the time to write to us about our Wellness® CORE® Dry Dog Food.
We are aware of some research conducted by the FDA on grain-free diets that contain high levels of legumes. Wellness has added supplemental Taurine to all dog diets since 2004 as a precautionary step following similar research that was published relative to the use of lamb and brown rice in diets. Currently Taurine has yet to be considered a requirement for dogs, and we add twice the minimum level of Taurine required for cats since it is a required nutrient for cats. It’s also important to note that unlike cats, which are dependent on their daily diets for their Taurine, dogs can synthesize (produce) Taurine given the proper precursors in their daily diets.
Please also know the FDA has contacted the makers of the offending foods, and we have not been contacted by the FDA but continue to watch the situation.
As always, our Consumer Affairs Team is available to talk with you if you have any additional questions. We can be reached at 800-225-0904. Please click the link at the bottom of this email, which will send you to our Follow-up page, where you will be able to continue your conversation with us and attach any requested/necessary pictures or documents related to your contact.
Thanks again for contacting us.
Sincerely,
Melanie
WellPet
Consumer Affairs Representative
000545098A

[Amelia Z]

They are adding it to the ancestral grain formula. The grain free already has:
fiber vegetable of peas. Although I prefer grain free, I was getting desperate so I was going to try the ancestral grains and they said they are coming out with a new formula that will have pea fiber. I looked into sport dog that has no peas but thought it might be too rich since it is for sporting dogs. Although my goldens are a sporting breed, they are not SPORTING. But they are out of stock because of the issue of taurine and peas. So now that’s out. The more I read about kibble it really is the worse food we can give them. I am continuing to give them honest kitchen and wean them off the Acana. They seem to like it. I may give them that one meal and Grandma Lucy’s artisan Chicken for the other. This will definitely cost alot more but if it is better for them, I will do it. It certainly is worth my sanity. I can’t research any more. This is been going on for months and I am at my wits end!
Here’s some interesting info:
https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2015/11/08/best-to-worst-pet-food-types.aspx
https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/dog-food-ten-scary-truths/

[Patricia A]

Thank you Lee. Also from NY here. I have the opposite problem with my picky one who ONLY wants to eat kibble topped with home made food such as boiled chicken, salmon, steak etc which I don’t always have available. On days when she only gets the kibble topped with freeze dried she holds out eating so I feed her later. She realizes she better start eating because kitchen is closing for the day.lol And it’s NOT the taste of the food because I’ve been through so many different canned foods and all the different proteins of the stellas and Primal that I could open up my own Pet Supply store. Even tried human grade Stella chewys new stews which again she turned her nose up too.
I actually bought Rawabble Beef thinking it might be better for my eight year old Chihuahua who loves all food but is a little chubby. It was right next to the Primal and Stellas.But then took it back same day because didn’t read enough people on this board feeding it and thought I better stick to a the Primal and Stella’s until I get more feedback that it’s a good quality freeze dried.
Running out of the Primal turkey/Sardine so will pick up a bag of the Rawablle beef which shows AVERAGE fat. I could never feed the beef with either Primal or Stella’s because of the high fat with that recipe. Maybe my picky one will even love the beef .Thank’s again for your feedback on this food.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[Kathleen Q]

I found it, believe me, there is a lot of replies on this subject. I live in a rural area with only 2 grocery stores. I cannot find beef heart or Liver, unless it is a big package. I was told too much liver is not good. Sardines at the time of feeding, meaning do not add them until your dishing out the rest? I think I would vomit at the smell of sardines. I love Dr.Harvey’s Veg-to-Bowl, it is easy and loaded with many natural veggies. On his site if you read the ingredients it has the best natural veggies and other ingredients that are healthy including dandelion. I find mixing a couple scoops of that to boiled chicken, or Turkey, is good for Molly. She does not seem to like beef as much. Also due to her age she will not eat food with a squirt of good Salmon Oil anymore as she is getting older and we get a little fussier.

[judy w]

Scherry, others, Zack’s behavior isn’t so systematic that i can confidently predict anything .
After i wrote the above, he to into his eating mode where i helped him eat from his bowl and he ate a full portion. i think poops were softer than normal but formed. staying tuned.

i gave the Clavamox around 10:30pm last night after he finally ate. i drug my feet on the Galliprant but gave that to him about 12 midnight after giving him a small amount of treat to put something new on his stomach. Then there were the symptoms i reported, panting all night, not the usual snoring.

Now this morning after refusing food on the earlier offering, he has just eaten a normal serving, and so, i then gave him the 2X a day Clavamox. I feel safe with that. The Gallaprant wold be late tonight if i give it to him. i don’t see why he has to have it daily and regular, in the sense that antibiotics need that to prevent resistant organisms from thriving and multiplying. NSAIDs are used in many cases as over the counter as needed. so if i skip tonight or give a half dose, i don’t see any harm.

Today, he is slightly subtly more perked up, ok, just in the sense that he attempted to jump up on the couch, and he did that yesterday too, so i don’t think but can’t know, if the Gallibrant might be helping the pain so that he would feel more able to do such things.

Thank you again for the reply, i saw a some other replies too and appreciative of you guys giving me people who care to talk it out with, instead of all on my own, so much better. i haver an appointment in 5 minutes and want to reply and read more later, thank you.

about the panting, He has been panting a lot, hard , the part 2-3 weeks, and i thought probably pain, but also, the weather was in a heat wave , my house is well cooled so i don’t know, but also he has the Mitral valve disease and some pre-heart failure symptoms including unusual amount of panting, as well as something called ‘air hunger’ when they get up from sleep and take in breaths fast, it’s not panting.

Anyway, so now, he’s back to where he was with the panting, his new normal . in fact, the main thing different about last night’s panting was that it was all night instead of him snoring and sleeping. i am definitely considering not giving him Galliprant last night, or giving him 1/2 pill. Unless i learn of what the harm would be in giving a lower dose or skipping every other day. If it spares him pain, i will need to weigh risks and benefits and i don’t know where that ends up right now, but i am so glad to have found a holistic vet that i like/trust last week. because Zack had been so healthy for so long, the only vet he saw was the cardiologist. Suddenly needed a holistic vet and it was a stressful week searching and hitting deadends. I’m in major metro area, Los Angeles, there are many but i found they were all booked up, until i found this place, which is farther than i wanted to look at at first but it’s not a bad drive at all and i am really glad to find them. i have appointments with a couple of others in August, earliest they had. Some are not seeing new patients. that’s good, the more people find benefit in it, the more will be available , the more choices. i think holistic and regular med compliment each other well, and holistic vets are licensed vets with plenty of experience. Broader perspective that way, as so many illnesses are not cut and dried in how to figure them out and safely treat them

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by judy w.

[Cathy B]

Hi Judy, My 15 Y/O Chihuahua that weighs 5 lbs was just put on Galliprant for severe Arthritis
in his spine and legs last Wed.

Only difference I’ve noticed is he’s woke up for water prob 6 times last 2 nights and not sleeping well through the night. Hasn’t really helped his arthritis either. Could be too early to tell I don’t know.
Had he started panting like yours though, I’d be VERY worried about that.

I’ve decided last night was his LAST dose of this medicine. Reading all the mixed reviews has
me scared to death to keep giving!

I took him to his vet of 15 yrs 2 wks ago and decided then to walk away from there and not go back.

So took him to a vet an hour away and x-ray showed the arthritis. After driving home I realized Galliprant was the one on here I read mixed reviews about.
I gave for the few days but no longer am.

I’m into more natural remedies for this sweet boy so will be researching what safe product(s) I can give to help him with this.

So sorry your dog is having such trouble. It breaks our hearts to see them in pain.
Please keep us posted how things go.