[wolff]

They may have been allergic to the grains etc. in NutriLife All Gold (Brown Rice, Pearled Barley, Oat Meal, White Rice, Brewers Dried Yeast, Alfalfa Meal).

Possibly so, though more likely than if they were from the same litter, they are from two completely different breeders and lines and 2 weeks apart in age, one is short coated and the other is long coated.
I’m not sure how I feel about the brown rice, I know I’ve read that rice in general is often contaminated with trace amounts of arsenic, and that brown rice has a higher level than white.
This might offer some insight into this issue:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/01/how-much-arsenic-is-in-your-rice/index.htm

“How much arsenic is in your rice?
Consumer Reports’ new data and guidelines are important for everyone but especially for gluten avoiders
Published: November 2014
We looked at data released by the Food and Drug Administration in 2013 on the inorganic arsenic content of 656 processed rice-containing products. We found that rice cereal and rice pasta can have much more inorganic arsenic—a carcinogen—than our 2012 data showed. According to the results of our new tests, one serving of either could put kids over the maximum amount of rice we recommend they should have in a week. Rice cakes supply close to a child’s weekly limit in one serving. Rice drinks can also be high in arsenic, and children younger than 5 shouldn’t drink them instead of milk.
Brown rice has 80 percent more inorganic arsenic on average than white rice of the same type. Arsenic accumulates in the grain’s outer layers, which are removed to make white rice.”

Wellness CORE Grain-Free Puppy Formula is a great choice. Orijen Puppy Large Breed Grain-Free Dry Dog Food is outstanding. But as I said, it’s all trial and error until A) you like what you’re buying & B) you see outstanding stools & weight formation that’s appropriate.

I saw the Orijen, but the price was out of my range, if I was feeding a Beagle or small dog it wouldn’t be bad, but the $79 price and the even smaller bag yet than I normally buy that’s a double hit- higher price for less in the bag.

If you’re not already, spread out the meals as evenly as you can during waking hours, small portions equal to the daily amount (or what they’ll consume) 3 to 4 times per day. It’s easier on their tummies.

Jiggs came when he was 6-1/2 weeks old, I fed him 4 times a day until he was 8 weeks and then Hachi came shortly after and he was 8 weeks, and by then both are on 3 feedings a day

[wolff]

I don’t know what the problem is, I can access every other thread but the one I started, when I try to read it or anything it keeps asking me to log in, obviously I AM logged in or I wouldn’t be able to even read this premium area I paid for..

crazy4cats wrote:
Hi Wolff-
I agree wich zcRiley, you should stick to a puppy or an all life stages food with the appropriate calcium level for your new large breed pups.

Also, I would have a fecal test done to rule out parasites. Giardia and Coccidia are sometimes hard to detect and regular dewormers do not get rid of either one of these conditions. They both also can cause intermittent loose stools or diarrhea and they are both fairly common in puppies.
Wellness Core is an excellent choice. Good luck

Hi,
Well the thing is I haven’t bought puppy food for many years because much of it is an American advertising gimmick, they create a “need” with consumers where none existed, this is an American phenomenon you don’t (or didn’t) see in Europe. I’ve been in dogs since 1982, used to show, and always had an average of four dogs concurrently. I’ve always fed an adult premium feed for slow steady growth.
But now with Nutrilife I’m not seeing the smaller firm stools I used to even in my two adults, it’s almost as though they suddenly changed the formula to more filler or a different supplier.
I have had only one puppy with cocidia many years ago, he got it when I visted “my” breeder and we went to a show together with her dogs and my adult, we put my puppy in one of her kennel runs that had a dirt/gravel floor, when we came back my puppy had excavated holes while we were gone.
Shortly after that he started getting foul smelling bloody diarreah and sure enough it was coccsidia.
My puppies don’t have diarreah as in squirting liquid, and it’s not foul smelling or the like, it’s just soft very poorly formed stool that comes after going once and having a more firm stool, and a few minutes later going again to finish and it’s soft and doesn’t pick up cleanly.
Remember what I said earlier- the Nutrilife bag suggests about 4-3/4 to 5 cups for giant breed puppies, 12 weeks/30# and they are getting 7-1/2 cups and still pretty thin, so to me it’s more of a loose stool from eating too much feed along with possibly a formula change. They clearly are not doing well on this brand.

We’ll see what happens on wellness.

[wolff]

Hi,
I normally never fed puppy food to my St Bernard puppies, I’d normally feed them an excellent adult food and they never had any problems with lameness, HD or other maladies the big guys often have, but now with two puppies 12 and 14 weeks old on Nutri Life All gold which I have been using for the past year and a half after switching from Canine Caviar, the puppies just rarely seem to get decent stools.
The stools often wind up being reasonably firm to start with and then finishing up more like heavy whipped cream, not liquid like diarreah, but very messy to clean up.
So I decided tonight to switch them over to the Wellness Core which is in the current editor’s choice list and we’ll see if makes a difference.
Both puppies have been wormed multiple times, but the loose stools is almost what one expects to see from feeding too much food at once, yet they are not putting on the fat/weight they should.
The Nutri Life all gold is an excellent food, but now I’m beginning to wonder if they have changed something in it because my 14 month old seems like her stools are not like they used to be either, my 9 year old seems to fine on it.

The feed is $2 more than my long time supplier but from this site I found another company who ships dogfood and they have free shipping on the amount I would order each time, so that saves me about $14 as my current supply place charges $17 to ship via Speedee.
So it looks like I’ll be switching dog food AND suppliers at the same time!

[Tiffany K]

What are thoughts on proportionate sized frozen raw chicken legs and thighs? Just plain and given frozen?

I have done this with success after doing a lot of research. I feed them in the fenced in back yard so they are not smearing chicken bacteria all over the house (they would head straight to my bed) and monitor everyone (4 dogs). I check their stool, no problems and it really knocks off any tarter and plaque. Most importantly, they love them. It is a HIGH value treat to them.

Am I playing with fire? They are so many conflicting accounts of feeding raw that I can’t find the thread of truth.

Another treat I am using more and more are human grade low sugar peanut butter granola bars. Again, broken in half for the little guys. But I am skeptical about all dog “treats” at this point. I am going to real food every time.

My Shih Tzu has been “tricked” to believe that a carrot is the height of dining, as I have given him lots of fruit and veg since he was a puppy. I am skeptical about all dog “treats” at this point. I am going to give them whole, human grade food every chance I get.

[Courtney K]

Hello,

First of all, I’d like to say what an awesome service- $15.00 a year to make sure we’re feeding our pets quality food. Finally someone trying to look out for the well being of all pets!

The reason I started this off topic thread, is because my 7 month old pure bred Blue Pitt, has developed odd little white bumps on her inner thigh. It started with one small one, now there are three our four. I’m praying it’s just warts, or something common, and google has me a little freaked out at the moment.

Any advice, input would be great, thanks!

[losul]

Hello Aimee
I’m glad my pup raising days (and child raising days) are long past 🙂 or I’d have to study all over again to get enough confidence to homemake even then half of a pup’s food properly. I think it’s very important to start off a pup on good foundation to health early for the proper build of health throughout life. And then to think that someone could be using an exclusive food (most of us regulars here on DFA never would ) through gestation, nursing, puppiehood, and adult hood, one should be even more careful. if I did ever aquire another puppy, not at all likely, but I’d definitely want to see that at least some wholesome rawness was a part of the diet, but I’d also want to make certain it was properly formulated, and well rounded with wholesome ingredients, whether formulated by myself or someone else. Getting the macronutrients right at the VERY least, and not dependent to any large degree on any one formulation.

But I also think many raw maunufacturers face a dilemma, do they add a bunch of vitamins/minerals, many of them perhaps needlessly, and some perhaps harmfully,
in order to be able to put that AAFCO label on them? I think AAFCO guidelines were
designed for and are a must for heavily processed foods, the most so being kibble,
and even much more so when low grade, questionable, and inadequate ingredients are
used. I can’t imagine how nutritionally devoid most kibbles would be without rather
heavily added vitamins/minerals.

But, if you take vitamin E for example. It gets used up with time, processing, and
natural peroxidation/oxidation of fats, especially the sensitive, unstable fats.
What vitamin E added when a kibble is made, needs to be sufficient throughout the
manufacturing process, the time that the kibble is stored, and then throughout the
time someone is feeding the bag. Probably if measured at the time a kibble is fed,
it would be a very small fraction left of the original vitamin E included
originally, but hopefully it would still retain at least some smaller amount. I
think the AAFCO guidelines likely allow for these losses.
Whereas a raw, minimally, but properly processed diet, fed immediately, or that is
frozen in well sealed packages is going to retain most of the original vitamin E.
The food/fats is still going to undergo some peroxidation, albeit at a much, much
slower rate. I believe to much vitamin E can be very harmful, just like to much
much of many other added nutrients. Even AAFCO is concerned with overnutrition.
“Maximum levels of intake of some nutrients have been established for the first
time because of concern that overnutrition, rather than undernutrition, is a bigger
problem with many pet foods today.” I’m satisfied that Allprovide has more than
sufficient of vitamin E in that food for MY dog, with the added wheat germ oil.

Another example, I think you know of the importance of vitamin D in regulating
uptake of calcium and some other minerals. Probably you also know the detrimental
effects of to much vitamin D in supplemetation, including possible hypercalcemia.
And we have both seen how many raw foods, both homemade recipes and some
commercially prepared, appear to be “deficient” in vitamin D when going by AAFCO
guidelines.
I found this study interesting, “Some Observations on the Dietary Vitamin D
Requirement of Weanling Pups” and the conclusion; “Dogs fed diets with and without
supplemental cholecalciferol did not differ in growth rate, food consumption or
selected serum or urine values. Likewise,there were no differences between the two
of response to added cholecalcifrol was probably due to adequate levels of calcium
and phosphorus in the base diet and possible synthesis of vitamin D. However, it is
possible that some vitamin D could have been present in one or more of the
ingredients of the basal diet. It has been suggested that dogs may only require
additional vitamin D when there is a mineral deficiency or imbalance in the diet
(11). However, one study reported canine rickets in diets containing 1.2% calcium
and 1% phosphorus (6).It has been reported that carnivores may not possess the
mechanism of vitamin D synthesis in the skin (7). Another study demonstrated that
dogs fed a nonpurified diet without added vitamin D under conditions of total
darkness did not exhibit bone defects (Kealy,unpublished data). Previous reports
did not record the ultraviolet light status of the environment. It is not
understood at this time how the dog acquires sufficient vitamin D for metabolism.
Part of the explanation appears to be related to a very low vitamin D requirement
in the presence of adequate dietary mineral balance.The observation that large
breed dogs raised in indoor-outdoor kennel runs do not require added vitamin D is
important <b>because supplemental vitamin D, calcium and phosphorus are frequently
recommended and used at levels in excess of the nutritional require
ments of the dog, presumably to enhance bone growth and development. The data
reported here suggest that supplementation of nonpurified, commercially available
dog foods with vitamin D may not be necessary.</b>

http://www.2ndchance.info/homemadediet-Kealy1991.pdf

Aimee, I know you’ve expounded about the blatant abuse of some other raw manufacturers in applying the AAFCO label of completeness on their foods, and I largely agree with many of your points, especially when it comes to all life stages/puppy, and especially the macronutrients Ca,P. etc.

I never expected you to approve of this one either. But for us, the puppy blend, good quality balanced proteins and well balanced fats, The meat, bone and beef organs in the proper proportions, and it’s other rounded whole food additions, and it’s 95% of the way there for us. I have a few more questions to ask, but as it stands for now, when my food supply runs down some, I intend to buy some Allprovide puppy blend and use at least as a sometimes meal/topper for my adult. It can replace some of the to expensive canned foods we’ve been using for the second meal of the day. I see it as a step up and less money too. The first meal will still always be raw homemade, or another solid commercial brand raw. If I did see a long list of added synthetic vitamins/minerals, for me, I’d likely just pass on this food. I’d still really appreciate someone (Dori?) to take a visit to them and report back.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by losul.

[Ellen D]

I think I have decided what I would like to do in terms of feeding my puppy. Background: he’s about 25 lbs, labradoodle, 14 weeks, should be around 65 lbs full grown. He is a picky and light eater, so I’ve been trying to do 4 meals per day but he just isn’t that interested in food so now it’s 3 meals.

This is what I’d like to do in my perfect world. Can anyone tell me if this would work or help tweak it?

–AM meal – either homemade or pre-made raw. I have a trusted recipe for homemade when I have the time to make some. Pre-made would either be Darwin’s or Allprovide, depending on which he prefers.
–Lunch – this is where it gets trick. He goes to day care 3 days per week, and they will only feed kibble. They will not mix anything with water, open cans, etc. Has to be non-perishable something. And if he doesn’t eat lunch, he will sometimes vomit, not to mention he is already bordering on underweight. So he needs something. The other 2 days my sister in law serves as our dog walker and can feed him anything I ask her.
–PM meal – I would like this to typically be RMBs, such as chicken backs/necks/wings to begin with and progressing from there. He already gets a raw chicken wing a couple times a week and loves it.

In order to figure out portions, would I just take each meal separately and divide it in 1/3? So give 1/3 of what would be a total day’s worth of food of each the pre-made/homemade, kibble, and RMBs? I would add his supplemental items either at breakfast or dinner – organ meats, probiotics, and sardines/fish oil/yogurt, etc.

I have looked into things like a “better” kibble – ziwipeak was the only thing I could find that seemed to fit the bill. However, their maximum calcium level in their “kibble” is like 2% which is way too high for a largeish breed puppy. Do you think I could get away with giving this at lunch and then having dinner on those days be meat without bones? Does it balance out like that, or is the calcium ratio a per meal type of deal?

[Ellen D]

Hello –

I have a 3 month old labradoodle puppy. He was 20 lbs a week ago, so I’d think he’s between 20 and 25 now. He’ll be about 65 pounds full grown most likely.

I’m currently feeding him Nature’s Variety Instinct Large Puppy kibble, which I’ve now realized is even too high in calcium for him. He gets some Stella & Chewy meal mixer in with breakfast and I always give him either a scrambled egg, cottage cheese, pumpkin, or some plain meat chunks with dinner – lunch is plain kibble, as that’s at the day care most days. He gets a raw chicken wing or thigh as a treat a couple times a week right now.

I’m going to plead ignorance and admit that I thought I was doing a great thing by getting him “fancy” kibble and only realized a week into having him that there’s much, much more to dog food than dry kibble.

So my dilemma:

–I need to provide him with some form of kibble or dry-fed food for various reasons – the day care can’t mix his food, I do travel from time to time on business so he may need to be boarded 3-4 days per month, and I’m afraid if I stop kibble altogether he might refuse it while I’m away and be a very hungry boy when I return. However, this doesn’t have to continue to be a significant portion of his food. I am happy to keep it just to stuff Kongs/food toys so he stays used to it, but I need to have some on hand. I’ve narrowed this down to – Annamaet Salcha, Avoderm Turkey, or Fromm Beef Frittata.

–I am very interested in a raw diet for him, but I can’t decide what to do here. I’d like to have some freeze-dried product on hand (narrowed down to NRG Maxim and THK Love) for convenience. But ultimately, once he’s down to 2 meals per day from 3, I’d like to go as full raw as I can do – whether it be commercial or homemade or a combo. I have found what I am confident is a very good and versatile homemade recipe (from Ottowa Valley Dog Whisperer – are we allowed to post links here?). My one and only issue with this recipe is I need to sit down and do some maths and figure out what to add in terms of calcium – if I need to alter the recommendation in the recipe based on having a largish breed puppy.

–I am also interested in supplementing with raw meaty bones, as my dog really enjoys his chicken wings and chews them very nicely. Is it okay to just use rmbs as a supplement/treat kind of deal? Could/should I give him one daily or just a few times a week or is it better to just replace a whole meal with them? I would vary the meat/bone source often.

I’m trying to do the right and best thing for my puppy, and I’m 100% open to suggestions and criticism about my plans. I welcome any and all advice, as I’m new to this and my head is just spinning. Added to this is that my wife travels 5 days a week, I work full time outside the home, and we have a 4 year old (human) daughter as well as 2 cats and about 200 fish haha! So I’m a single parent 5 days a week. I’m really at the mercy of convenience. However, I can manage an evening cooking session once a week or a couple times a month and can freeze portion sized amounts. It’s just a matter of figuring out that pesky calcium balance. The recipe calls for powdered eggshell or bone meal. OR I can add whole prey meat to the recipe – I assume I would grind this – and omit the eggshell.

If I were to make the homemade diet, I feel like I would probably feed that for 2 meals per day and continue with kibble for 1 meal. And then when pup’s down to 2 meals, perhaps full homemade with kibble in the kong or as hand fed treats so he stays accustomed to it.

Last question – there doesn’t seem to be a lot of question/issue with feeding raw meaty bones or prey model diets to large breed puppies. Does the nature of a raw diet negate the need to watch the calcium levels so closely?

[Dori]

I just went back onto their site and looked over the foods again. I agree with you that the only one that I could see feeding is the puppy formula. But, as I mentioned, I’m uncomfortable not knowing about antibiotics and hormones. For my husband and myself I try to buy organic as often as I can and always make sure that there are no hormones or antibiotics as best I can. Another issue that I have with their other formulas is that I don’t like that they have more than one protein. If a food says it’s beef, I’d like not to see chicken. Same with their other formulas. I think the puppy is the only one that is one protein source. One of my dogs is highly intolerant of all things fowl.

As far as the AAFCO statement, I really don’t pay much attention to it. That they have slapped that statement on so many foods that are so not AAFCO equivalent is appalling. So how can you believe any of it. There’s no one guarding the hen house. I’m a commercial raw feeder and all the companies that I feed are only ones that use human grade ingredients. Now, of course, I don’t know that to be a fact because I’m not an eye witness in their manufacturing facilities but I’m doing my best to take care of the girls as best I can. I’ve attempted to do my due diligence. If I remember correctly AAFCO figures were done for kibble, possibly canned too. I’ve read somewhere that they are suppose to be coming out this year with their new figures a bit more in line with the EU guidelines. They’re still not talking commercial raw foods into account so it’s not going to affect me or my dogs one way or the other. I would possibly be more concerned about the AAFCO statements on dog foods if I fed highly processed dry foods or if I only fed my dogs one food and never rotated. That could lead to a problem which is why we are always trying to get people to understand that they should research and implement rotational feeding. The FDA is their own little story unto itself in my eyes. The way they recommend or abolish products has no merit in my eyes whatsoever.

[losul]

Basically I think if they are putting an AAFCO label of nutritional completeness on their foods, i doubt they should be doing so. On the other hand, for me, AAFCO guidelines hold much less relevance for well rounded quality whole, foods, and really become much more relevant the more heavily processed foods. kibbles, etc. I don’t like to many excessive and uneccessary added vitamins/minerals to raw diet.

I’ve not seen guaranteed analysis of their products. The analysis they show is a bit confusing, especially the way they have broken certain items down.

I think I can assume that fat means total fat, carbs mean total carbs, it wasn’t at first plain to me from their analysis. But the total calories still don’t quite reconcile?

Going by what i can here’s the best I come up with on the puppy blend. I hope this comes out looking like a spreadsheet, never has for me before on the review side anyway 🙁

Analysis % %Dry Matter Approximate % calories from?:
——————————————————————————————————-protein 14.02 46.6
fat 7.58 25.2 about 51% ?
carbs 6.57 21.8
water 69.92
ash/other 1.91 6.3
——————————————————————————————————-
100 99.9

Going by those figures, the fat doesn’t look out of line, particularly since the product has added coconut oil and salmon oil, already. I might give consideration feeding the puppy blend (to my adult) on a supplemental basis. I’d be interested in how the veggies, particulary the kale, are processed to make more digestible., and if the mung and adzuki beans are cooked in addition to, or simply just sprouted.

Edit: yeah it didn’t come out looking like a spreadsheet, at all. I’ll have to try doing something about that later.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by losul.

[losul]

I agree Dori, it would cost alot more to get the best specifications. I wrote the guy a couple times, and he seemed open and honest. they don’t have a nutritionist , and I wouldn’t consider it to be all balanced. They do use typical grocery store type feedlot beef, like IBP, or something, and also typical grocery store type chicken and turkey, they use all the skin with the poultry, something I never do, I remove it all. it’s not grass finished, or free range. I think the beef would could possibly have used antibiotics, maybe hormones? but I was thinking those were outlawed in chicken? turkey? I’m not sure. I don’t think there would be any worries about 3D or 4D beef in it.

I don’t think there’s so many dog foods that do use free range and grass fed without really busting the wallet for so many, and think it could still be much better than almost any kibble or canned foods, could be a decent option for occaisonal use, or to use for toppers, It wouldn’t be what I would feed as a staple to my dog though, and the fat levels do appear too very high, not as bad in the puppy blend though.

[losul]

Allprovide looks like (or at least initially) it could be a good, very economical food option 2 feed on occaison. The proteins are mixed in the varieties. Not a big deal for me though, for some might be. The poultry varieties all use beef organs, which is good really, they are more nutritious than chicken organs, probably why they do that. The beef variety uses chicken bones. And all the varieties appear to be high in fat as in the case with so many commercial raw diets. But alot of the numbers don’t numbers seem 2 jive either, and calories per 100grams? The first thing thats fairly easy 2 pick out is the inverted calcium phosphorus ratio in the turkey variety. I think it’s going to fall short in some of the numbers, but trying to reconcile these numbers gives me such a big headache even trying, i give up. Aimee’s is great with processing the numbers, maybe she would see this and lend a hand to it?

Personally, the only variety that I would be interested tin is the puppy blend, but not for a puppy, for my adult. It has 2 major proteins, chicken and beef heart, and the fat levels are lower, or should be.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by losul.

[Kristin C]

Google it and there’s plenty of info. My new pup could not keep Blue Puppy down a little over a year ago, barfing and endless diarrhea. I had been feeding my older dog Blue Wilderness at the time and switched them both to raw. Last year my older dog had a heart murmur. This year it is barely audible (I have also been feeding her extra raw heart). Kibble is like feeding processed food at every meal. Research and pick the best one you can afford.

[Eliseo M]

Hello everyone. My English bulldog puppy, Tyson, is now 8.5 Weeks old. We got him on 29 March. They gave us Royal Canin. I read up on Royal Canin and also found this site which led me to purchase Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice Recipe for puppies. This is kept in stock on base (I am stationed at USAG Yongsan, South Korea).

Over the last 2 weeks his stool has been more pudding diarrhea than solid. Thankfully it hasn’t been uncontrolled (he almost always poops on a pad). It also isn’t “brown water”. He has had no vomiting. He drinks a normal amount of water. He is still active and playful and is putting on weight.

We played with his amount of food and now he gets more solid stools (still has a pudding diarrhea towards the end of the day). However, we noticed he began tearing a lot, to the point he is getting small stains. He also recently began scratching at his ears.

Today we had his 3rd round of vaccinations. The vet looked at his ears, face and eyes. She also looked at his paw pads (between toes). She said he may have a small allergy to the food.

We bought Royal Cannin Hypoallergenic food at the vet office. There is nothing on base and our options at the time were limited.

How do we best go about figuring out this food allergy?

How long should I feed him the hypoallergenic food?

Also, once I am ready to switch back to a puppy food I was thinking of going with Wellness CORE Natural Grain Free Dry Dog Food for Puppies. My thinking is this is a 5 star food and is also grain free which he may be having an issue with.

Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance 🙂

[Karen G]

Has any one heard of SOJOS? Our Goldendoddle is 6 months old. Rough start with severely infested giardiasis and round worm. That is no longer an issue, thankfully.
But puppy’s soupy diarrhea continued. Tried several recommended puppy kibble no no avail.
Then I met a shopper at the pet store and she suggested I try SOJOS or at least go to the pet specialty shop and get the sample they offer. Shopper also commented on how poodles had sensitive digestive system and some people swear by this food. Mentally I wasn’t willing to give up on kibble but did pick up the sample. After another week of distressing diarrhea I was at my wits end. I gave our sweet puppy the sample. By the following day he produced a formed poop. I was estactic. For months our puppy was off and on a kibble thought to be the answer to his problem. Always had to go back to the boiled chicken and long grain rice.
SOJOS is working. However, puppy is now 40 pounds. I’m feeding him four times a day. Starting at 5 am ending at 7 pm. He is very slender and full of happy energy.
This latest dog food success is quite pricy. Raw freeze dried turkey mix. Only a handful of ingredients compared to the kibbles. Have to add water. Puppy is not picky but there is a definite joy when he discovers I’m preparing this food compared to chicken and rice.
I’m hoping to eventually switch to a kibble once I feel confident things are settled.
Our daughter has the brother litter mate and other than the parasite infestation she had no issues with her puppy. The breeder offered to take our puppy back or give us a refund ifhe test positive for a genetic issue. That cost $200. I’m seriously thinking I should do this. Of course we will not give back our boy. I can see how people give up on their animal if they have issues such as ours. Our puppy’s care is 24/7. Only two accidents in our home.
Any suggestions or comments out there?

[Shelly A]

OK so everyone says check this thead or that thread, some say trust then vet. others say trust the breeder…… then you read up on all the different dog foods that are out there and discover all the recalls and melamine etc found in certain foods. Some vets say if “the food is AAFCO approved then great”… yet the internet indicates that AAFCO does NOT police any dog food that is manufactured in the states, instead it says “AAFCO doesn’t test, approve, certify or regulate pet foods. Its stated goals are to provide protection for consumers, safeguard the health of animals and humans, and provide “a level playing field of orderly commerce for the animal feed industry.” So one of my last vets push to buy Royal Canin and the breeder is using a cheep brand fromm Peavey mart and is insisting on no more than 22% protien and no more than 10% fat…..Doesn’t a dog than big growing that fast with thbat much muscle require more protien than that? God who do I believe? I just want to feed my puppy to help him stay healthy and grow well and at a safe rate but none of this is helping there seems to be too many camps and it is turning into a crap shoot!
Frustrated and at a loss.

[Ashley M]

Hello,

I have a six month old lab puppy who seems to have food allergy or food intolerance. We started him on Nature’s Balance Large Breed Puppy and he would get awful tummy aches to the point of curling up on the floor and crying in pain for extended periods of time.

After several trips to the vet along with x-rays, blood tests, and an ultrasound trying to figure out what was wrong and being told repeatedly by the vet that it was not food intolerance or allergy I asked her to please recommend a starter food that they would give a dog who does have food intolerance. She went ahead and prescribed Hills Science Diet Branch I/D. Its been two months and Jaxon (my puppy) hasn’t had any of those awful tummy aches since.

That said, Jaxon is still not on the right food in my opinion. I feel in the long run Science Diet is a poor brand of food (the ingredients don’t strike me as high quality) and the ID formula isn’t right for a large breed puppy. I am terrified to transition him to anything else though and don’t know where to begin. My vet of course recommended Science Diet or Royal Canine Large Breed puppy. After thoroughly reading about both recommendations on this website I definitely do not want to feed Jaxon either of those. Can anyone give me a recommendation of other foods to research for a puppy who has a sensitive tummy or food allergy even though I have not been able to determine what exact ingredient causes this? Or possibly point me to a website that has more information on how to navigate through feeding a puppy with food issues? Thank you!

[merleGDgirl]

The time is almost here, I’m down to the last month before our gorgeous baby pandora comes home. We’ve got almost everything in place. Giant crate? Check. Collar? Check. Toys? Check. Great trainer lined up? Check. Food? umm….. about that…

Okay I’ll cut the melo dramatics. I fell in love with Danes years ago when I first laid eyes on the sleek giant but because of high school then college then grad school then marriage then children I have been unable to commit to what my heart really yearns for a GD fur baby! Well finally, the time is here.

As many pet parents I have done about six months of research on proper dane nutrition found some EXCELLENT information but… It is ALL contradicting. Some say high protein is fine others say it is fatal some say it doesn’t matter, others are more concerned with calcium and phosphorus levels others shun the thought of giving puppy food at all to a dane, to all of you I say….. Your giving me a headache.

Will someone, (preferably with a giant breed dog that can speak from past experience OR factual scientific information) please help me decide.

At the moment raw food diet, albeit good, inaccessible and unaffordable because our family doesn’t have the time or the massive amount of extra money it would take to feed a dane raw.

The plan is wellness CORE puppy. My sister has a Neapolitan Mastiff female who was fed wellness core puppy from the time she could eat kibble and did excellent on it. She has been moved to the adult line and rotates between core flavors.

I wont hear anything about blue buffalo because well…. You know diamond is a joke and I wont even entertain the idea.

I want the best for my new family member. She has the best toys, crate, trainer, the best kinda love but the food is so crutial and im at my witts end with the conflicting information!

Thanks.

[Rachel M]

Hello! I am very new to the raw dog food world, and I’m finding it to be overwhelming! But… I want what’s best for my dog child, so I need some help please 🙂 I will fill you in on the details first, since I’m not sure what you all need to know. My canine child is a 1 year 3 month old Doberman Pinscher. His health is normal. He is currently on Fromm Gold Large breed dog food. He eats 5 cups a day, 2 1/2 in the morning, 2 1/2 at night. He was previously abused, so he has some problems with eating quickly *or at least I assume the abuse was a huge factor*. I have given him raw turkey neck before as a treat *AFTER I searched to make sure it was safe*, and he loved it. I started looking more into it, and that’s when I found all these things about raw feeding and how it’s great for them. I can’t afford to feed him entirely raw, so I’m looking to supplement. I was thinking of switching him to Taste of the Wild, but I am wondering if this would be a wise switch as well. We tried the puppy pacific stream formula when he was young, (3-5 months?), but that was right after we had picked him up from a situation where he wasn’t being fed. The food was too rich for him at the time, and he had mushy poo’s. We ended up trying a few different foods, but went with Fromm, as it seemingly fixed his poo problems. I’ve been reading that Taste of the Wild is a good food, but I wasn’t sure if I should try it again.
I am also always looking for long lasting chews for him. I made the terrible mistake of giving him a beef knuckle bone when he was young, and he ground his canine teeth down a little bit 🙁 I will feel terribly guilty for the rest of my life for that. Regular rawhide scares me, so right now he gets Digest-eeze and pork chomps. These are not enough. He FLIES through these.
SO BASICALLY, I am wondering
A. If I should supplement his kibble with raw? And if so, how should I do this? How much raw? How much of a kibble cut back? And how often should I feed raw? Is this something I should mix WITH his kibble every day? Or feed raw in the am, kibble p.m? I am so lost!
B. Is mixing a kibble while also feeding raw going to hurt him?
C. If I should switch his food to TOTW? Is this worth trying again?
D. ARE THERE ANY CHEWS OUT THERE THAT WILL LAST LONGER THAN 10 MINUTES FOR MY DOG THAT AREN’T GOING TO HURT HIM?!?!
Haha! Crazy dog mom essay over. Thank you in advance for your help, and I apologize for all of the questions! I am just totally overwhelmed!

[Naturella]

Kota, hi. I fed Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy to my dog for a few months after we first got him. He did very well, if I must say, but honestly, I would probably not feed it again… Too many other good, more affordable foods out there for me to want to pay for a questionable food like that.

[LabsRawesome]

Hi Michelle, congratulations on your new puppy, she sounds adorable. I love puppy breath. lol. It seems as though you have made her crate very comfy. 🙂 I do have a suggestion tho. When my pups were 9 weeks they had to go out A LOT. Like every 20 minutes. I remember being so excited when they made it to the half hour mark. 🙂 I know it seems excessive, but just imagine how tiny her bladder is right now. And they do poop more often at that age too. In a few months when her body and organs have had a chance to grow, she won’t need to go out as often. I’d also like to suggest rotational feeding, for a healthy gut, and less chance of allergy/ intolerance. Find 3 or 4 different foods, with different protein sources, and also made by different manufacturers. You can feed her puppy or all life stages foods. Good luck with your little girl, puppies are a lot of work, but their also a lot of fun. 😀 Here’s some info on diet rotation. /frequently-asked-questions/diet-rotation-for-dogs/ I personally rotate foods by using up one bag of kibble, and then starting a new bag from a different manufacturer/ protein source. I also add canned and fresh protein into the mix. I don’t know if you’re interested in using canned only for her, but that would be a great option as well.

[Dog_Obsessed]

Hi James,
Congrats on your new puppy! I don’t think you need to switch to a lower protein food. The myth of high protein causing kidney disease in dogs has been disproven, and high protein should not be a problem in puppies, with the exception of large breed puppies, who have special requirements. Wellness Core is a great food, however no food is absolutely perfect. For this reason, me and many other “regulars” on DFA support rotational feeding. Learn more about that here: /frequently-asked-questions/diet-rotation-for-dogs/

Remember to always transition slowly between foods. Adding a digestive enzyme or probiotic can help if your dog has a sensitive stomach. Also, until she is around 6 months old, make sure all of the foods you are feeding are listed as “puppy” or “all life stages.” Good luck!

Edit: Just saw the part about her not liking her food as much. Rotation could help with this, if she is getting bored of the same stuff. Also, adding a small amount of wet food, or even water with some dogs, can help make the food more palatable.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Dog_Obsessed.

[James K]

Hi,

I’ve been feeding my 17 weeks old Maltipoo puppy Wellness Core Puppy since he’s 8 weeks. He’s 6 lbs now and full of energy (too much sometimes). He used to gobble down the food within a few minutes, but lately he has been less enthusiastic about his food. I was wondering should I switch to dry food with less protein? Wellness Core is at no less than 36% protein. Any other recommendations for small breeds?

Thanks in advance.

James

[kevin w]

My pup has had very loose stools for a week. I’ve had him and stool samples to the vet and all is well. I changed his food from Wellness to Fromm and he was good for a couple of days now his stools are loose again. Feeding the recommended amounts. Any suggestions? The foods are large breed puppy foods too. I would be more than to try some other food.

[Rosy R]

I been feeding my Dachshund since she was a puppy BB. We started with the life protection formula and now feed her the Freedom Grain free. But I want to soon switch her to a healthier brand with better ingredients but still stay within my price range. She is currently 10.6lbs. I feed her 3/4 cup a day divided into 2 meals.

I been doing some research and know that Orijen is the best but it’s currently too expensive for me, so next best thing or so I have read is Acana. But which to choose? Any suggestions or recommendations? Any dachshund owners out there?

• This topic was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Rosy R.

[DogFoodie]

There are only two AAFCO nutrient profiles for dog food; they are: growth and reproduction; and maintenance. Foods labeled “puppy” are growth and reproduction foods. Foods labeled “all life stages” are also growth and reproduction foods. Growth and reproduction foods generally have a higher standard of nutrition. Foods that don’t meet the growth and reproduction profile may still be allowed to be labeled adult maintenance. Growth and reproduction foods frequently have more protein and yes, they’re often more calorie dense. Just monitor the portion control.

I feed my adult dogs growth and reproduction foods, including those labeled for “puppies” or “all life stages” exclusively. I feed them a variety of kibble, canned and fresh whole foods. I rotate brands, proteins and binders after each bag of kibble. I buy smaller bags that my dogs will finish within a couple of weeks to avoid rancid days as much as possible.

[Diana B]

Kristin-every time I research that question, I find so many answers. I think it depends on the size of your dog, how large they will be as an adult. Smaller dog breeds mature quicker and can be on puppy food for shorter periods of time. I have heard Giant breeds should stay on puppy up to 18 mos. Since I feed the smaller end of “Large Breeds”-Golden Retrievers, I think about switching around a year. Oliver was a little over 1 when I transitioned to adult food.

I know that puppy food has different nutrients and is usually more calorie dense so weight gain and more can be a concern. One source said when they reach their adult height, (about a year for my Goldies, and then they fill out) is a good time to transition.

There are many more knowledgeable folks on this forum, so I know they will have more input! What kind of pup are you feeding?

[Eugene L]

Hi guys,

This is my first post. Greetings to all.

I have an Akita which have a pretty sensitive stomach. We have tried some “high range” dog food and BARF. There are some pros and cons between the two.

commercial dog food : consistent nutrition amount, easy to feed and storage. But you have no control on the source of the raw product or additive.

BARF : total control of the source and raw product. But making consistent nutrition value each meal is not easy, feeding is more messy and storage is a huge problem as all the cooking, freezing, thawing creates complication on contamination and rotting. Bones are sometimes not recommended if your puppy do not chew properly.

I am thinking of a solution that have the best of both world.
First Dehydrating the meat, bone and veg product that rots easily. Then mill them to fine grains so each meal can be a cup of meal mix and 1/4 cup of veg fix or something like that. mix the powder with rice or pumpkin puree when feeding. Is it a good idea?

So comparing to BARF, no more freezing and thawing, you just need some rice/pumpkin available which is much more easier. Less chance of contamination as very low water content and can be easily stored. All we need to do is dehydrating a large batch of ingredient and milling them like each month.

Any thoughts on that?

[CircaRigel]

Just as people with different activity levels have different nutritional requirements, the same is true for dogs. The amounts you mention actually seem quite reasonable for the dogs you listed, especially if they are as lean as you say, and are active. You might be going a bit high on the two puppies, but not by much.

Of course, how much you feed also is going to depend on the water content and calorie content of the foods. Calorie dense foods should be served in smaller portions than lower calorie ones, and wet foods tend to have fewer calories than dry, dependent on water content.

The amount you’re feeding the Cane Corso/Mastiff is similar to the amount I feed my Shiloh Shepherd puppy, but as Galen is training to be a service dog, he gets more exercise than many puppies (He was born 11/20 and is around 44 lbs). Anywhere I go, he goes too. He’s expected to be 115-125 lbs full grown.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by CircaRigel.

[marco]

Hi Brian, the problem we had with my two boys was not colitis, but my vet here in Italy (he is professor at the University of Perugia told us that he had been working on a research showing that any pet food formula that includes meat obtained by intensive farming, contains a residue that can really harm pets. If you have the possibility, try and feed your dog with homemade puppy recipes for a few days, if this is the case, you should see improvements within a week. Good luck!

[Bobby dog]

Hi puppypiles:
I think your name is cute. Very lucky kitty! I would love it if my cats would only eat wet food, but they do crave their crunchies. So I try to stick with foods with lower carbs for UT health. I mostly have finicky cats, they seem to forget what life on the streets was like. My main rotation is Wellness Core Duck & Turkey, Precise Naturals GF Chic, Grandma Mae’s GF cat & kitten, Fromm Duck Ala’ Veg, and NVI GF Healthy Weight. On my list of kibbles to try I have Annamaet GF and grain inclusive, Nutrisource Country Select, and Pure Vita GF chicken.

Here are others I throw in the rotation:
Beyond Superfood Herring, Beyond Chic & Whole Oatmeal, EVO Turkey & Chic, Innova Nature’s Table GF Chic & Turkey, NVI GF LID Turkey, Simply Nourish Source GF Chic & Turkey, Wellness Core GF Kitten, and Pure Balance chicken.

Budget wise Pure Balance (Wal-Mart) and Beyond are the best for me. They are a little higher in carbs than I like, but feeding on a rotational basis works for us.

[David P]

TOTW is the cheapest of the somewhat-acceptable foods out there. It’s good you have enough love for your dog to purchase that. TOTW is what I started my three dogs (6 lbs, 24 lbs, & 68 lbs) on.

I’ve had to economize in OTHER AREAS OF MY LIFE in order to feed these 3 hounds properly.

TOTW is BARELY acceptable. On this site, you’ll see the owner/moderator mention Steve Brown of “The Canine Ancestral Diet”; Steve Brown was an MIT graduate who started studying this as a sideline and eventually veered off into the topic of “pet nutrition” full-time.

Holistic Veterinarian, Dr. Karen Becker had two YouTube interviews with Steve Brown… I am somewhat RETICENT about asking you to ACTUALLY SPEND MORE MONEY but you quite obviously have already MADE THE COMMITMENT to ensuring that your puppy gets “quality nutrition”.

So…..

You need to add one of the pre-mixes to supplement TOTW (I use Sojos Green… 8lb bag is $62)… the 6 lb Chihuahua gets one tsp. per meal. the 24 lb spaniel bred to look like a mini-Rottweiler gets 1 1/2 tblsp per meal, the 68 lb American Bulldog gets 3 tblsp. per meal. Dr. Becker provided the rationale that the diet of canids (dogs, wolves, etc.) in the wild is 70% moisture and greens from the stomachs of their vegetarian prey (rabbits, squirrels, chicken, etc.) The best that even the higher-quality grain-free dry dog foods can do is 12% moisture.

Do not OVERFEED your puppy; this resulted in a “mini-rebellion” bordering on “insurrection” by the 3 dogs in my household teaming up on me to complain when I instituted “measuring cup” proportional feedings. You’ll find that WITHOUT the “fillers/excipients” in the grocery-store brands, the recommended TOTW and Champion Dog Food (Orijen and Acana) Guidelines seem rather “stingy.” I compromise since a part of the rebellion staged by these 3 was to begin eating cheetohs and french fries that the truckers drop where I walk my dogs by the Walmart.

I measure each dogs recommended portion per day and SPACE OUT the meals to four servings which sates their initial hunger pangs; the COMPROMISE is that I don’t count the calories from the pre-mixes towards their daily caloric intake; the rationale being that these are HIGH-ROUGHAGE FOODS and since dogs have very short intestinal tracts, I’m getting the INTERNAL CLEANSING of the INTESTINAL WALLS that I desire; there is ALSO water-soluble fiber from the apples, etc CLEANSING THEIR BLOODSTREAM and keeping their RENAL SYSTEM (Kidneys) healthy.

This “may” or “may not” another TOUGH PILL for some to swallow; Steve Brown pointed out in the Karen Becker YouTube interview that THE FATS in even the best of the dry foods are intact in the air-sealed environment before the bag is opened but that these same fats degrade once opened. You need to go to a dollar store and buy $1 tupperware storage containers and refrigerate/freeze the balance of the bag once opened. Humans, dogs and all mammals need a variety of high-quality fats (which are EVERY BIT AS IMPORTANT as proteins).

Going to what I call “minimally-appropriate quality” dog foods does involve some “financial sticker shock”; you came here because you got a great puppy dog, Zane H and you were clever enough to sniff out the necessity of going “grain free”; Blue Buffalo is to be credited with instituting a national advertising campaign and there has been an understandable backlash against Purina and other brand providers to where they sheepishly and quietly have begun acknowledging that “corn,” “soy” and “wheat” are poisoning your pets.

You came here because you love your dog, Zane H and you were faced with some tough choices; I too don’t make a lot of money at my job as a CNC Lathe Operator.

You’ve got a puppy so you have a chance to have a healthy dog.. I’d recommend going to YouTube and search for Dr. Karen Becker and Mercola Healthy pets. Here is the link to her two-part series on Best-to-worst dog foods.

This the dry I feed my dogs; Orijen is 75%/80% whole prey protein to 20%/25% fruit and vegetables (found in the stomachs of the prey that dogs/wolves eat in the wild). Princess is 68 lbs and closer to “wolf size” than either Shadow (24 lbs) or Mary (6 lbs) so she gets the higher-protein + 3 tblsps. of the sojos green per meal.

I like the LESS EXPENSIVE Acana for Shadow and Mary since it is what is contained in the other 50% that I like (The DHA and EPA). I’m thinking of switching Princess over to Acana as she ages into her 13th year of life. She and Shadow are the same age and they have been active, healthy dogs who have the puppy chihuahua to entertain them.

Dogs REALLY NEED “fresh water” every day EITHER filtered through your tap with Britta or purchased in gallon bottles (“drinking” or “spring” only not “distilled”) from Walmart.

I also use the Honest Kitchen “Preference” pre-mix and sparingly add in the Grandma Lucy’s PureFormance pre-mix to get in some of those low-glycemic chickpeas.

Acana and Orijen have won numeorus awards for their low-glycemic qualities which keeps your pets healthy in the first place so that they don’t get system failures from having bodies with their pH-levels out of whack.

You need to change your dogs water daily and also add in a Tropicana breath freshener liquid to keep their teeth clean.

It is somewhat DEFLATING to come here and discover that it don’t get any cheaper than what you’re already doing…

…but you are here and you obviously love your dog.

[Cecile R]

Hi Doglovers and forum members,

I live in Sri Lanka and feel that it is very difficult here to get quality advise on dog nutrition (or on dogs in general). I have a 4 months old Ridgeback/Great Dane mix (Tequila) and have done some research on the internet about how I should feed her and feel like the info is very different to what the vet here has recommended me to feed my puppy, so I was hoping that somebody could give me some feeding advise? It is fairly difficult to get proper pet food here, basically the only thing that is available is Pedigree and Eukanuba dry food and this is also really expensive.
We have 4 more dogs who are all strays in different ages which I have picked up from the street and adopted and they are happy to eat almost anything and don’t like the dry food much also, so I would cook for them brown rice with pumpkin or carrott and in the mornings chicken liver and in the afternoon the same with fish filet, sprats, or meat off-cuts form the butcher.
For Tequila I’m a bit more concerned as in no case I want her to get any hip problems later (especially as I feel the vets are differently qualified to Western ones)
Our vet has given me 3 different vitamin supplements with high Calcium content, but from what I have learned can a diet with high Calcium be harmful for large breeds – alright, I just stopped giving her those.
Up to now I have been feeding her the Pedigree Puppy dry food (Calcium approx. 1.1%) but will change this now to the Eukanuba Puppy for large breeds (Calcium approx. 0.96%). So far I have been feeding her 2 smaller servings of this in the morning and always mixed this with milk powder as advised by the vet and chicken liver. In the afternoon she’s getting the same food as the adult dogs as described above. Any opinions if this makes sense?
Tequila was fairly small and skinny when we got her (32cm and 6kg at 8 weeks), but looks healthy now to my opinion. She’s approx. 55cm high now and weighs about 16kg (she’s a bit more on the Ridgeback side, so I think this is okay for her age?)
Since she’s my first large breed I’m very concerned of doing anything wrong as I just want her to grow up healthily and would appreciate any comments and advise of people who are more experienced!
Thanks a lot in advance

[Zanes Mom]

I too love the Acana products. I have a local pet boutique that carries it but I order from Chewy.com when traveling and their customer service and delivery times are outstanding and prices as good or better than local. I just like to support local business when I can.
For canned food my personal favorite is Hound & Gatos. I use it as a topper and it is for all life stages. I have a 150 lb Bullmastiff and we went through plenty of room clearing gas before finding the right combination for him. And it really is about finding a good quality that works best for your pup. As you mentioned Acana is a little pricey but I feed four cups a day as compared to the six plus cups I would be feeding of some of the others so things tend to balance out. Good luck, I love puppy breath!!!

[GSDsForever]

Congratulations on your new puppy! Good for you in wanting to provide a good diet & care for him.

When feeding a large or giant breed, particularly one especially prone to structural development problems, I would exercise extreme caution in diet & exercise/movement restrictions during growth and make that my priority.

French Mastiffs (or Dogue de Bordeaux) have a rate of more than 50% of individuals having hip dysplasia, per the OFA. This is one of the highest of all breeds.

Most of this is genetically inherited, and so much of your risk depends upon the breeder of your puppy & the 4-5 generation pedigree behind him (& their littermates), the percentage OFA’d (or given a similar non-U.S. normal rating).

So I would look for foods like on HDM’s DFA list that have appropriate total calcium & calcium to phosphorous ratios. You also want to carefully avoid over feeding, feed to keep your pup on the skinny side & with frequent weight checks to ensure that your pup does not grow too fast. But I would also recommend to you that you get in touch with breeders of your breed who have been breeding a long time & have had an excellent track record of producing dogs with normal hips & feeding for normal hips. Beyond diet it will be important to take care with the type of exercise and amount — again following successful breeders’ recommendations and researched guidelines.

Good luck and welcome!

[LabsRawesome]

Hi Natalie, welcome to DFA. 😀 My favorite kibble is Victor. It’s a 5 star grain free food, without the usual 5 star price. I buy it locally, it’s just under $45 for 30lbs. The food is available in small bags too. Here’s Victor’s site. Click on their “Find a dealer” for stores in your area. http://www.victordogfood.com/ I recommend a rotational diet. Pick several different foods to try, different foods/manufacturers. Then rotate through different proteins- Chicken, Beef, Salmon, Turkey, Lamb, ect. Explore other options as well. Since you only have 1 small breed dog, you might want to feed canned food. Canned is more species appropriate then kibble. Because canned food is moisture rich and the food is closer to it’s original state, it’s much less processed than kibble, and uses no preservatives. Also, with just 1 small dog you could feed a human grade canned food. 😀 My 3 love Merrick canned once in a while for a treat. It smells and looks so good, I’m tempted to try it myself. lol. 🙂 Unfortunately I cannot feed Merrick exclusively as I have 3 dogs so I have to go with more budget friendly canned foods. If you’re interested Merrick is sold at Petco. I hope your puppy does well on the foods you try. Good luck! 😀

[Brian K]

Hello everyone:
We have been feeding our 5-month old puppy Reggie, a cocker spaniel mix presently weighing in around 25 lbs, a mix of Orijen Puppy, Wellness Core Puppy, and Wellness Complete Health Puppy. Over the past six weeks he has showed symptoms of colitis. A round of pills (antibiotics, I believe) from the vet made things better temporarily, but within a few days of stopping he was back to very loose stools with some mucous (no blood) and bowel control problems including his first poop in the house since he was under 10 weeks old. He also vomited a few times this time around which was new…

So, we went back to the vet earlier this week and she told us to switch him to Iams Intestinal Plus Puppy, put him back on another round of antibiotic, and also probiotics. As with last time, he was doing significantly better within 36 hours, but who’s to say if it’s the food, the pills, probiotics, or some combo thereof? I am willing to be open-minded to the idea that the Iams food may be what my dog needs, but I really don’t like the ingredients. If he does well on the Iams food once his antibiotic treatment is through, I will keep him on it, but eventually want to work in something with higher quality ingredients and nutrition. Any suggestions on foods to try or how to handle this situation in general?

Thank you

[aquariangt]

Welcome to DFA! First and very foremost, I want to see puppy pictures ASAP

Wellness and Nature’s Variety are personally the only foods that you listed that I would feed. As far as price goes, the Nature’s Variety Instinct will be cheaper than the raw boost as well, but still all are less than Orijen. Acana is more reasonable.

Where are you shopping? From the list you posted, I’d guess PetSmart or PetCo? Wellness CORE and NVI are the two best brands there probably, though at Petsmart they also have Nulo which is nice, and Simply Nourish Source-which I’ve used but I’ve heard a few things about some of their storage issues lately, its been a while since i’ve used that at all. There is also Freshet and Nature’s Variety Raw there if you were interested in going that direction however, Champion foods would probably be cheaper.

Now, on to other stores:

Fromm Gold Puppy i like a lot, and they just came out with Fromm Gold Grain Free. Fromm 4Star Grain Free is also suitable for all life stages-my most recommended and favorite brand.

Earthborn’s Grain Free line is all life stages and I like that a lot as well.

Go! Has a nice puppy food as well. Victor as well. There are many others that are great, just a few i like.

I would start with getting a bag of pro plan, whichever the breeder is on. Feed at least a week if not two of just that, don’t mix anything. Let the puppy get acclimated to your house and you. After a few weeks, start mixing in something new. After that, transition to yet another brand/protein. With puppies, if you start them on a rotational diet, they will be able to transition cold turkey in not too long, which is great, as a rotational diet is the best way to go.

[Natalie O]

Hi everyone!

I’m new to this site & need some advice. I am bringing home a Boston Terrier puppy in 2 weeks and am trying to figure out the best food to begin feeding him. The breeder currently has him on Purina Pro Plan but I plan on transitioning him slowly to a new food. I’ve heard wonderful things about Orijen and Acana – but I was hoping to find a food with the same quality as those, but a little less pricey.
I’ve heard Boston Terriers are prone to being gassy, so something to help with that would be great. I’d like to stick to a grain free food because of that as well. Right now I am between Wellness CORE, Nature’s Valley Instinct Raw Boost, Blue Wilderness, and Merrick Grain Free.

Can anyone offer any suggestions of which of those foods you would recommend?
Also, please feel free to suggest any other foods!!
I want the best for my pup 🙂 Thanks in advance!

[Dori]

Hi John. Firstly I just wanted to post about Marie’s suggestions. She want be upset with me as she’s a friend of mine and is fabulous at helping others with their canines.

California Naturals does have a Kangaroo grain free but the protein is incredibly low. 21 % to AAFCO standards.

Natures Logic Rabbit contains turkey meal, chicken fat, chicken liver, dried egg product and egg shells (for calcium).

Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance (their grain free line) is freeze dried food. Their foods that do not have any poultry or beef are: Rabbit, Goat and Lamb. (Be forewarned…fairly large poops on Grandma Lucy’s but it does have a good reputation with a lot of feeders).

On to the questions you just asked of me. Since you are already feeding your dogs a raw diet, transitioning to a commercial raw diet will be very easy for you and your dogs if, in fact, that is the route you want to take. Transitioning to raw is much simpler and quicker especially with dogs that are already eating raw. Also because you already feed grain free that will make it a bit easier as their guts are in better and healthier conditions than dogs fed their entire lives on foods that contain massive amounts of carbs and lower quality foods. Now, I’m assuming at this point that the only known allergens are poultry and beef. I would stay away from any and all poultry (all fowl….anything with feathers). Since you say that Bella reacted violently to Bison after only a few hours you’ll be able to tell fairly quickly if a new food is going to bother her. Typically when I first started out with rotation feeding I could tell within 3 days how Katie was doing on it. If she was going to have loose stools or vomitting, scratching, gas, bad breath and everything else that goes along with food sensitivities it would happen fairly quickly so I stopped feeding that food and went on to the next. In your case I would probably tell you to start with one food and if they do well on it then feed only that food for two or three months just to give their guts a bit more healing time and “detoxing” as it’s called. At that time you will already have bought the next food you want to try within that brand if there is another protein without any allergens that your dogs may have. If that brand doesn’t, then move on to the next brand. If all goes well I would then feed that food and start looking for the next protein within that brand you want to try. Every time you are done with one bag you move on to the next. Every time with a different protein within the same brand. Keep a detailed list of the foods you have tried and what, if any, reactions they had. Once you’ve exhausted the different proteins in your first brand then you move on to the next brand and start rotating through their proteins that your dogs can eat. Then you move on to the next brand. Before you know it you may be able to have 4 or 5 foods that your dogs can eat and do well on. You can then continue to rotate within these brands and proteins every time you have to buy a bag of food. You can then start rotating with the different foods you have in the freezer every day, every couple of days, every meal as I do, whatever. I rotate as often as I do because Katie can’t tolerate anything for more than a meal or two. She probably can at this point but since I’ve been doing it this way for so long and they’re all just fine with it and because I wouldn’t eat the same thing for breakfast and dinner I figure why should they. I also can’t afford for her to become allergic to anything more than she already is. In rotating foods if some ingredient bothers her a little or there is a pro-inflammatory ingredient in the food (which I try my best to avoid but not always possible) then she’s only getting it for one meal. Rotating foods for all dogs is, in my opinion, the healthiest way to feed canines but especially for canines with food intolerances.

Please keep in mind that the log (list) is very very important. In keeping a list it will also better inform you if your dog is having an issue with the protein or is it another ingredient in the food. If you feed rabbit and Bella has issues with it and then you move on to goat and the same thing happens, then you have to compare the ingredient labels of both those foods and see what other ingredients do both foods have in common other than the protein. When starting to gather foods for dogs with allergies it’s easy to assume that it’s the labeled protein in the food and keep moving from food to food thinking your dog is intolerant of every single protein. Typically that’s not the case. It’s that we forgot that they could be allergic or intolerant of any other ingredient in the foods. So it’s important…..keep a log of foods you feed and the ingredients in the foods. You can print out the ingredient list from their web sites or you can take a picture of the ingredient label on the bag itself for reference purposes.

“Toppers” by the way is just a term that’s used meaning anything that you would put on top of the food you already have in their bowl. I would suggest you not use any of them at all until you have some foods that you can easily feed to your dogs with no allergy symptoms. You’ll confuse the issue if you start adding other things. You won’t know which or what is causing the symptoms. I do add things to my dogs foods but I did not in the beginning. Had to find the foods first. Then started adding little things to see what the affect would be.

Plain Kefir (you can buy it in grocery stores) acts like plain yogurt in that it contains friendly “probiotic” bacteria that helps the gut. I will add here that my allergy girl, Katie, cannot have kefir, yogurt or cheese. Actually I’ve yet to find a probiotic that doesn’t contain something (yeast, or whatever) that she doesn’t have issues with. She’s too intolerant of them and the craziness starts all over again. Not saying that your dogs will react, but owners of dogs with food sensitivities have to be very careful of every single thing that eat. Their immune systems are pretty much in a weakened state especially until their immune system improves on better foods, less toxins and carbs to deal with. 70% of the immune system is in the gut.

Allergy symptoms can be skin issues and/or digestive issues as is the case with Katie. Once I cleared up all her food issues her digestive and skin issues all disappeared.

Once on line please check out all pro-inflammatory foods, fruits and veggies. Allergies are an inflammatory based issue so you need to avoid those foods as best you can. It’s not always easy to eliminate each and every single one but do your best to avoid as much as possible. That’s also a good reason for rotation. If one of your foods does have pro-inflammatory ingredients your dog will not be getting them for too long a time.

If you find, eventually, that your dogs are not allergic to sardines then you can give them sardines packed in water with no salt added (canned in the grocery store) two or three times a week (as a “topper”) on top or mixed in with the food in their bowls. Sardines are an excellent form of Omega 3 which most foods are lacking. Most foods have plenty of Omega 6’s and not enough Omega 3’s to balance them out. That is true most especially in kibble foods. On the days that I don’t give my dogs sardines I keep a bottle refrigerated of Nature’s Logic Sardine oil. Oils go rancid fairly quickly so it’s best kept refrigerated and also says it on the bottle I believe. Anyway, once I’ve put their meals in their bowls, and on the days I don’t add sardines, I splash a little of the sardine oil on top of their food in their bowls and promptly put the bottle back in fridge and immediately give the dogs their bowls of food. I believe the oil has the dosing on the bottle. Please do not give your dogs salmon oil as we already know that they had issues with the salmon food. Also, salmon and tuna have the most amount of mercury in them due to their long lives. I don’t feed either because of those reasons. Sardines and krill have the least as they have very short lives and very short digestive tracks.

Just for your info I realize that I didn’t tell you what type of dogs I have or anything other than Katie’s allergies. So, Hannah (my avatar) is my 15 1/2 year old Maltese. Katie is my 5 1/2 year old Maltipoo and Lola is my 5 1/2 year old Yorkipoo.

One more thing. I no longer have my dogs vaccinated. I do the titers on the core vaccines. Rabies vaccine in my area is only required every three years. Though recently I’ve learned that the county I live in will accept rabies titers. Very few counties in the country are on board with titers for rabies. I don’t believe that any dog should be vaccinated unnecessarily. Dogs with allergies shouldn’t be vaccinated. Of course, I am in favor of doing all the initial puppy vaccinations spaced out as they should be. Each vaccine should be done separately and not the three in one type. It’s too much of an overload on their systems. After those initially puppy shots which, if memory serves me, ends when they are about a year old. After that having your vet do titers to check their antibodies to the core illnesses will let you know when and if they have to be vaccinated again.

[John P]

Dori:
I think rotational food might be my best bet at this stage in the game, but I have a few questions/comments for you:
1) How would you recommend introducing the new foods I’m researching to make sure Iggy (and Bella, my other Wheatable) can tolerate them before I rotate in a second, third, and fourth food (and so on)? It usually takes a little while for the itching to show up in either Iggy or Bella. On the other hand, I learned very quickly that bison was too closely related to beef for Bella (she has violent reactions to beef). Within hours, she was incredibly sick. So, I guess my question is how long would you wait before introducing each food and how many foods would you feed at a time when you’re trying out a new one? Would you switch to it exclusively for a short period?
2) I have always made my own treats. This started when I rescued Iggy as a puppy. He was extremely malnourished but wouldn’t eat much of his puppy food at a time. Bella, who is two years older, has never had any problems eating (especially if it’s bad for her — haha), so I had to find ways to get get nutrition into him throughout the day when he felt like eating without necessarily leaving food out all day long. I worked with my super awesome vet to come up with some “recipes”, I played with them to Iggy’s liking, and Iggy and Bella have been enjoying them to some extent ever since. They have always been anti-inflammatory, grain-free, and high-protein, with a good fat-to-protein ratio. I don’t use treats very often, but when I do, they’re always from my own kitchen.

crazy4cats:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a “topper”?

Pam P:
This is great information! Like I said, I’m new to this site and new to the dog food world beyond what I have found in the aisles of my local pet supply warehouses. Please bear with me as I bombard you with questions/comments as I did with Dori. Here goes:
1) What is kefir? I’m afraid to leave this page in my tablet to go Googling for fear of losing everything I have typed so far, plus I’m betting your summation will be far more knowledgeable than anything I can find on Wikipedia.
2) How exactly do you find out if a company uses synthetic vitamins and minerals? Does a limited-ingredient brand such as Acana use them? I’m guessing something like that would be on the ingredients list, but is there a separate list as one might find on a cereal box? I tried to play around with Editor’s Choice the day I joined, but I couldn’t find the purported ingredient benefits of membership. That could be both a limitation of my browsing device and a limitation of the short amount of time I had available for browsing.
3) Do you mix the oils directly onto the foods before feeding? How do you know how much to give per kg/lb — does someone have a guide somewhere online? Again, this might be something I could search online. My Wheatables both have the soft blonde hair of the Wheaten breed, but it doesn’t have the luster it had when eating the Organix. I realize that could be due to many things besides just what I fed them at the time. I know when I first rescued Bella and before I got Iggy, my old vet introduced me to Dr. Udo’s pet line of holistic products. Do you have any experience with those? I believe he has a vegan oil blend (with several of the oils you mentioned) designed to do just what you said. The only reason I bring it up is it would have dosing guidelines. My worry comes from the fact that Iggy is at risk of being underweight (always has been), and Bella is at risk of being overweight (always has been), so I want to be sure and dose exactly according to what they should be getting.

InkedMarie:
Thanks for the hints! You saved me a lot of headache and searches by pointing me in the right directions. If I can use Dori’s rotational recommendations, I’ll need some novel proteins because so many have already been eliminated due to established allergies and intolerances (mainly poultry). I really appreciate the help!

Melissaandcrew:
Okay, I own several books on Wheatens. They are adorable, but that very adorableness is their downfall, which is why I have rescued two. However, I haven’t ever encountered specific literature on (nor have any of my vets told me about) skin conditions due to intestinal problems. I know about the inheritable digestive enzyme-related diseases. Do those also cause skin problems? If so, what kind? I will Google this further as soon as I can. However, your first-hand perspective would probably help me more than anything else.
Also, thanks for telling me you are also a proponent of rotational feeding, although to a more relaxed extent than Dori. This helps me decide that some form of rotational feeding is the next move for our pet family. I wish I had thought to do this sooner.

Pam P:
Nice to see you again! Thanks for the advice on the vaccines. Iggy and Bella missed their last routine vaccinations because they were extremely inflamed at the time, and the vet didn’t want to risk it. I will mention everything you said to my vet, and we will go from there. She has been extremely good to work with me so far. She got out of vet school right about the time Iggy joined our family, so she knows our history well, and she seems to be more flexible than some older vets.

Thanks again to everyone! I’m sorry I wasn’t more concise. I just have so many questions. If you don’t feel like answering but just want to send me to a website, a link is fine too. I’m off to do all of that Googling I promised to undertake. This community is amazing!

[Naturella]

Hey, Dana, and welcome to DFA.

First off, I really think that getting your dogs off of the Science Diet is a wonderful decision! I also know what shopping on a budget is like, so what I can recommend is emailing/facebooking companies to ask for coupons (Nulo would send you some, it is a brand sold at Petsmart and online too), and sign up for coupons from Merrick/Castor and Pollux/Wellness. They will send you coupons as well. And if you order online, websites such as chewy.com , petflow.com , wag.com are great places to look for deals on.

Also, feeding a rotational diet will help with scooping out deals and sales – basically you will be able to rotate to different foods that are at a good price at the time of purchase.

Now, I can recommend you several brands that are mostly affordable (without coupons), and are available online. Earthborn Holistic, Dr. Tim’s, Annamaet, probably NutriSource (not affordable in my area though), Victor (available at sportdogfood.com), and if you don’t mind Diamond as a manufacturing company (lots of recalls, not handled well), Taste of the Wild and Canidae Grain Free Pure would be good options.

Most of these foods are pretty calorie-dense so you would also feed less and possibly have smaller stool. And I can actually give you an almost-personal example – my roommate used to feed the same Science Diet formula as you, and he fed it for almost 5 years to his dog (except he did feed her the puppy version when she was a pup). Then he switched to Nulo Lamb and Lentils (a grain-free, high-animal-protein food) and his dog lost weight, actually enjoyed eating her food, and her coat looks a lot better. I am not sure about stool size though. And now she eats Blue Buffalo Wilderness Red Meat. She seems to be doing well although many report issues with Blue so I wouldn’t really recommend it. Plus, it is pricy as heck.

Now, I can’t really help with the gas issues. Maybe someone else can give you direction with that and you can see what food matches others’ recommendations from the brands I suggested, and other brands others may suggest. Good luck!

[Brian K]

Hello everyone, I’m a new Editor’s Choice member and this is my first post here…

I’ve found a lot of conflicting information out there about when we should transition our dog from “Puppy” formula food to adult food, so I thought I’d ask for advice here. Our puppy, named Reggie, is a 20-week old rescue “farm mutt.” The only breed in his ancestry that genetic testing returned with any confidence was Cocker Spaniel (1/4), with a highly mixed cocktail including 3 different terrier breeds, greyhound, shar-pei, and havanese all potentially in the mix. At just under 25 lbs now @ 20 wk we’re expecting him to reach an adult weight of approximately 35 lbs.

We have been feeding him a mix of Orijen puppy, Wellness Core Puppy, and Wellness Complete Health puppy sometimes supplemented with Wellness Complete Health puppy wet food or plain cooked chicken. We want to work some more variety in, but he’s a pretty finicky eater (he will even separate individual kibbles of foods he likes from those he doesn’t, which he neatly deposits next to his bowl), so if I’m going to spend money trying some new things for him it might as well be age-appropriate. So I’m wondering when the right time to start feeding him adult food is, either entirely or as part of his mix? Thanks in advance for the advice.

[Akari_32]

Of the foods you’ve listed, I regular use Wellness CORE, of all varieties, and usually the puppy food. My guys love all of them, and I’m very happy with the company.

The only one I personally would not feed on your list is Innova (and their other brands, EVO and California Natural). They use to be owned by Natura, which was a great company, then they sold out to P&G, where they promptly had a major recall when their 3 year contract to keep the recipes the same ran out, and now just recently, they have been sold to Mars. Mars makes foods such as Iams, Goodlife, and Pedigree, and of course they make candy. I’ve already noticed the recipes of EVO have dropped their protein levels by about 10%, and have loaded them up with more legumes.

[Kelly P]

I have a 8yo Newfie/Golden mix who was dx with hypothyroid approx 4.5 wks ago and started on soloxine. things were going great….he was acting like a puppy again!! Then we ran out of dog food….we were planning on switching from Kirkland Nature’s domain grain free formula after the “recall” issues in Nov….but life got away from us and we had to scramble and he was on another brand grain free for 4 days and then switched him to Whole Earth Farms (Merrick’s entry level food) beef formula. 5 days on the Whole Earth farms….he stopped eating. Today is Wed eve….he hasn’t eaten since last friday. Took him to vet on Mon and had full blood panel sent off. The first vet put him on 1mg soloxine BID…..blood test came back showing he was still hypothyroid…and they want to increase his soloxine to 1.5mg BID. Despite the fact that he is exhibiting ALL the hyperthyroid s/s…like arrhythmias…27lb weight loss in 4.5 wks…etc. We finally force-fed him tonight. I started reading the forums on here….and despite asking my vet if (like humans) there were food restrictions when giving soloxine….i was told he can take with food. Either way….at my witts end. Apparently his CBC and Chem 12 and UA came back normal….and T4 or TSH (not sure what they ordered) came back as hypothyroid. Have not gotten copy of results yet.

Am i dealing with complicated thyroid issues or a food issue? clearly changing his diet has a big part in this….curious about experiences with the Whole Earth Farms brand (got 4.5 stars here). is this just a thyroid replacement issue combined with increase in nutritional quality??

Any feedback appreciated…. I am a nurse educator for an emergency department….I see a homeopathic physician for my own health…..I get human and dog health stuff….but am stumped and broken hearted right now…..

Thanks!

[Heather H]

I took in a stray yorkie mix just before christmas. She was in heat and running with a pack of large dogs who were fighting over her. I took her in to protect her and she is the sweetest girl. I have been feeding her and my other dog iams healthy naturals chicken and barley recipe which has 4 stars. I am on a fixed income and have low funds. She is about 10 lbs, not a toy dog and she had her puppies last friday. She had 6. Overnight she became skin and bones. She may have been underweight pregnant and I didn’t notice as her stomach was so large. Her coat is long silky and healthy and she is fine on energy but when I pet her she feels like a skeleton under all the fur. I get money on friday and in the meantime I boiled a pork roast with a lb of ground beef fresh green beans and carrots and added lentil and quinoa to try to get her extra calories. What I need to know is what is a good reasonable puppy food to try to put weight on her as she will have to eat a separate food from the other dog and I can’t spend more than $30 for the month on her and puppies, other dog has very sensitive stomach and the iams is the only food where his coat doesn’t get patchy and he doesn’t have poo storms:)

[james y]

Hello newb here looking for a little info.

First a little background
My 9 month old pitbull, maple has recently been having problems. She undoubtedly had worms and was scratching alot and losing hair. At first i was feeding her purina dog chow and she was doing fine. Then the wife brought home pedigree and thats when the hair loss started. So i instantly thought the dog had mange and began treating her for it. I also read that a raw diet would boost the immune system so i did that too. I fed her venison mostly, with raw eggs and gave her vitamins everyday. She cleared up and we started back with the unused portion of pedigree. Well she broke out in hives!

Ok so the dog is allergic to dog food…just my luck. A vet friend told me to try bil-jac frozen food so i did for a couple weeks. She was doing great on it! we got rid of the worms and shes putting on wieght and her coat is awesome! Although the frozen food isnt very convenient so i just googled best grain free dog food and found this site. I came across a name i recognized “blue buffalo” and this very site said it wss a five star food. So i purchased 20 pounds of the grain free wilderness red meat puppy food. It was pretty pricey, as a matter of fact i figure i could buy hamburger for $3 a pound but its so much easier than having to refrigerate or prepare raw food.

2 days into feeding and she seems to be doing just fine. I dont monitor poo, so i cant say anything about it.

Anyhow now im seeing all this bad stuff on the web about blue dog food….and something about a lawsuit with purina?? Is there any truth to these claims about the food hurting dogs or is it maybe a bunch of hired posters or something? If the stuff wasnt $60 a bag i would just throw it out and go back to the biljac.

[MariaRobotnik]

Hello all, I’m new to this forum and new to the idea of feeding my dog anything better than the most fancy-healthy looking bag of food Safeway has to offer. It’s strange because I get my own food on the internet most of the time, but I still felt the need to haul 10 pounds in the snow for a limited selection of food for the dog. So any of your advice or experience that could help me pick the best choice for my fuzzball would be so very appreciated.

The hungry pup in question is Laika, a tiny 1 year old, <10lbs pug mix with shiny black fur and a white paw. She seems hungry all the time because she’s always trying to eat every tiny thing that can fit in her mouth. I can’t let her go free on the floor unsupervised. She is super energetic and attached to people. Her favorite chew toys are human fingers and toes. She cries a lot like she wants something but i don’t know what. Does she need more food? Different food? Should she still be eating puppy food? How does one feed such a small creature?

[Aspen A]

Lovemypuppy, I am with Steve’s Real Food, a raw pet food company (for full disclosure). Well done on switching your pup to raw, it is so much healthier for him than even the highest-end kibble. Any dry product is not going to compare in health benefits and easy digestion compared to raw. It is always good to rotate the food – we don’t expect our children to eat one thing every day for their entire life, but if you only feed a kid ice cream and cherrioos their stomachs are going to have a hard time eating apples and spinach. I hope your pup is doing well!

[Dog_Obsessed]

I always joke with my family and friends that Lily is a very “deprived puppy,” because she doesn’t get the turkey sandwhich that she oh-so-sweetly requests each day at noon. 😀 I don’t really know if I spoil her or not, though I do have the constant urge to keep buying her new toys. Basically, a new toy for her is a new toy for me. 🙂 I enjoy “online window shopping” for dog stuff, which means adding all sorts of random fun stuff to my cart that I really don’t need. I usually end up getting her at least on treat/toy per order lol. I don’t know when her actual birthday is, I assume it is sometime around September or October. Her gotcha day is August 13th, 2014, which I will definitely celebrate! I’ll probably feed her a meal of Weruva canned food or something, and then let her run zoomies at the park!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Dog_Obsessed.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Dog_Obsessed.