[pugmomsandy]

Thanks HDM. I’m been wanting to reconcile my supplements! Seems I’ve got too many! I’ve been thinking of some whole food vits too. I’ve started using Garden of Life Raw Meal and it’s a bunch of sprouted grains/nuts/seeds, probiotics, enzymes, greens. I’ve been giving him 1 teaspoon with his meals. http://www.vitacost.com/garden-of-life-organic-raw-meal-vanilla-2-5-lbs
I’m also feeding him canned food and a little bit of kibble. When hubby feeds he just does kibble. He still gets around for his age! Still uses the doggy door!

My 3 pug mixes I have right – they’re a wee bit cra-cra!! Absolutely bonkers! I’d rather have a dozen old full pugs!

[pugmomsandy]

Hi all!

As I am a hoarder now of dog foods and supplements, I was wondering what yall thought about a diet/supplement schedule for my 14 yr old foster. He’s blind, deaf and has arthritis.

[rileydog22]

Our Coton De Tulear has liver disease and he is only 7. His liver is extremely small and he is going downhill. We started feeding him Science Diet for Liver but it is a poorly rated dog food.
We also are giving him milk thistle, Xanex for discomfort, lactulose and Ursodiol to unblock the bile ducts.
Is there no better dog food out there for a dog with a failing liver? We were feeding him an home-made food, but are concerned that there are no supplements that he may need. We also were giving him Fromm Whitefish and Potato but he can no longer handle it.
Any advice would be helpful. We don’t want to lose him and have heard that liver can be reversed!

[pugmomsandy]

Blurose,

Usually 2-3% of your dog’s body weight per day and adjust for his activity level. I have small indoor dogs so they would eat just under 2% if they were just eating raw but they eat a variety of foods. Hounddogmom has a list of supplements she gives in the raw food menus thread I think. Maybe she will see this post and chime in. I do give a supergreen supplement and fish oil.

[blurose]

I an thinking about switching my 70 pound Golden Retriever to a raw food diet. How do you determine the amount of food to give each day? I am planning on using frozen raw with bone already incorporated. Also, would I need to add any supplements? Thank you for your help.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m not a vet, but when my Shih-Poo, Desi…rip, had an attack of pancreatitis the food that worked best for him was Wellness Core Reduced Fat. There are some very good enzyme supplements on the market. The Mercola brand uses animal based instead of plant based and are considered very good. They also make a probiotic supplement with multiple strains. Go to mercola.com in the pets section to read about them. Some sources to read about pancreatitis are: dogaware.com, b-naturals.com and askariel.com to name a few. You could also ask your vet about the enzymes….my vet gave me some when Desi had his attack.

[maddymoiselle]

my 10 yo golden retriever was hospitalized over the weekend for pancreatitis. she is home now and just starting to eat small amts of boiled chicken and rice. tolerating it well:) any suggestions for commercial food for down the road with low fat, high fiber and protein. also, can anyone recommend any supplements(enzymes) for dogs prone to pancreatitis.any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Bigcoco –

1) 30% bone is way too much. As Patty said, bone should comprise 10% of the diet. The calcium to phosphorus ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 (ideally around 1.2 – 1.3:1). When the diet is 10% bone, 10% organ meat and 80% muscle meat the calcium to phosphorus ratio is right within that optimal range. A diet of 30% bone will be throwing that ratio of balance.

2) I checked out the product website and I can’t see where organs are included in the mixes? All I see is where they state 70% meat and 30% bone. If organ meat is not included in adequate quantities in the 70% “meat” you’ll need to feed organ meat. Organ meat should comprise 10% of the diet – 5% being liver and 5% being other organs (kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc.). Organ meat provides crucial vitamins and minerals that aren’t provided by muscle meat.

3) I can’t find where the level of vitamin e in the Bravo salmon oil is stated on their website and often the amounts added to fish oils are too low. I checked out the Pet Naturals of Vermont Daily Best supplement and there is little vitamin e in that either. Small dogs should get 50 – 100 IU per day, medium dogs 100 – 200 IU per day and large dogs 200 – 400 IU per day. Vitamin e requirements increase when fish oil (omega 3’s) is being supplemented, if adequate quantities are not received with omega 3 fatty acid supplementation the dog will eventually develop a vitamin e deficiency.

4) It’s also possible your dog could be deficient in certain trace nutrients – it’s hard telling without a nutrient analysis but because the Pet Naturals supplement is designed to be fed with a complete and balanced commercial food the amounts of vitamins and minerals are very low (as they are with most pet supplements). To ensure your dog is getting all the trace nutrients he needs I’d recommend either supplementing with a human multivitamin – base the dosage off a 100 lb. person (i.e. 25 lb. dog gets 1/4 human dosage, 50 lb. dog gets 1/2 human dosage, 75 lb. dog gets 3/4 human dosage, 100 lbs.+ gets human dosage) – or adding whole food supplements. I prefer to avoid synthetic supplements for my dogs so I feed a variety of nutrient-dense whole food supplements like kelp, alfalfa, bee pollen, spirulina, wheatgrass, glandulars, sprouted nuts & seeds, etc.

“Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a fantastic resource for raw feeding. It’s a really great book for beginners – short and easy to understand and includes AAFCO compliant recipes. You may want to checkout this book. It was a constant resource for me when I first started feeding homemade raw.

[theBCnut]

I bought their bugs off garlic for my horses and got free stuff for my dogs for years. I love their spirulina and fresh factors.

[momtopoms]

Thanks. I will give them a try.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m assuming you mean Springtime, Inc. And yes, I’ve heard of them and have used them off and on for many years. I really like them. I’ve used their Fresh Factors (great whole food vitamin which I like because Lucy hates most things mixed into her food) and I’ve used their Joint Health and their new Advanced Joint chews. They worked great for my deceased Shih-Poo, Desi, who had both rear luxating patellas. And the Advanced Joint worked when Lucy hurt herself once. I’ve also used their Omegas 3-6-9 and liked them, as well as their Bug-Off Garlic chews for fleas. Love the stuff and they always have b1g2 deals…and if you buy so much you can try free stuff.

[momtopoms]

I got a catalog from them in the mail. Has anyone tried any of them? The joint supplements look interesting. Thanks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi cashmyhorse –

If home cooking for your dog is something you’re willing to do and can afford, I strongly feel that a balanced homemade diet utilizing fresh, low glycemic ingredients would be the best option for your dog.

Here is some information on diet and diabetes:

dogaware.com/articles/wdjdiabetesdiets.html

As far as balancing the diet, there is a company called “Balance IT” that has vitamin/mineral supplements designed to balance a homemade diet. There is a recipe generator on their website in which you can enter information about your dog, including any health issues such as diabetes, and a recipe will be created to suit your dog’s needs – check it out at balanceit.com. There are also some pre-mixes with low glycemic ingredients that would be suitable for a dog with diabetes – The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance and Birkdale Petmix. With the “Balance IT” supplements and pre-mixes generally all you need to add is meat and water, all the vitamins the dog needs are in the mix. If you want to feed a completely made from scratch diet, invest in a good book with recipes that conform to AAFCO nutrient standards. My favorite book is “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. Another great book is “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker. Dog Aware has some great tips on homemade diets as well.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Rambo and Fancy –

Another “prescription” option that would be much higher quality than the Hill’s prescription food is one of the formulas from Rayne Clinical Nutrition. They have a low protein formula for dogs with liver issues. The ingredients are: sweet potato, water, egg, butternut squash, canola oil, sunflower oil, vitamin and mineral mixture, fish oil, calcium. It’s 11.2% protein on a dry matter basis. The foods come in trays, probably similar in texture to a canned food, and are made using human-grade ingredients. I have no idea what the prices are (not cheap, I’m sure), but if it’s something do-able for you it’d be something to talk to your vet about. I’m not sure if you have your dog on a support supplement – but Standard Process has some good supplements that are available through veterinarians only. They have a “Canine Hepatic Support” supplement that utilizes herbs and glandulars that are known to support the liver. Just some more things to think about.

[texasniteowl]

All right…at this point, this post might belong in the supplements area…but it is due to this thread, so staying here. I blame all of you for the $100+ order I just made at Swansonvitamins. OK, mostly for me but also for Wilson…I ended up choosing to go with:

Probiotic: Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s Probiotic. Since it was Buy One Get One, that is a bottle for Wilson and a bottle for me to try.
Enzymes for Wilson: NOW Foods Optimal Digestive System. A human “serving” is 2 capsules (per meal), but Wilson will probably get 1 per meal. I also ordered the NOW Foods Plant Enzymes. It would also be suitable for Wilson it looks like so we’ll be sharing these 2.
Omega 3 for Wilson: Carlson Salmon Oil softgels. Omega 3 for me but which would also work for Wilson: Carlson Elite Omega-3 Gems.

6 other items on my list, but all for me ;>

[InkedMarie]

Thanks Sandy and Patty!
This class was mostly a joke, I’m so thankful it was only 2hrs long. I couldn’t even leave because Steve had dropped me off. When she started talking about alpha dogs, I wanted to be out of there. She never talked about raw foods but instead talked about cooked foods. Had Pitcairns (sp) books there so that was a good thing.
Someone brought up constipation in dogs and she mentioned chia seeds. She also mentioned psyllium but said some dogs don’t like the taste. I don’t know if you gals remember a couple weeks after we adopted Gemma, she was “stopped up”. I still don’t know if it was from eating a stone, from too much or too big bone in the Darwins she ate at the time or what. She has not had that problem again but it does take her awhile to poop. No straining but she does stand in the poop pose, for usually a couple minutes, before she goes. Stool is not hard, not soft, nicely formed. No idea what causes this but I wondered if the chia seed might be worth trying. She eats The Honest Kitchen’s Embark in the morning and Bravo Balance pre made raw in the afternoon. Gets various supplements and a dollop of pumpkin on top of her meals.

[texasniteowl]

Thank you both Patty and Hound Dog Mom for your input. I recognize that RAW may be best but it seems intimidating and/or time consuming and/or expensive…and prepackaged/prepared *is* expensive. (Wilson weighs a little over his target weight of 62lbs…we’re currently at 66lb and going down slowly.)

So we do need to stick to dry kibble…at least for now.

I guess I’m leaning towards sticking with the bag of Earthborn Great Plains…at least to finish it…don’t know that I will buy it again. I do have some pumpkin I can add to his meals so I hope that will help with the alternate straining/soft movements. (Also, for what it’s worth, the Great Plains has a guaranteed protein of 34%…lower than the primitive at 38% yes, but much higher than the Fromm’s he was on (27% iirc).)

I will start looking at the options again to try to figure out which to try next. Also, I *am* open to using a topper…either freeze dried or canned. I suppose I just need to account for the calories, right? The rough calorie spot for Wilson’s kibble is 950-975 calories/day. He’s not extremely active…we do around a 1 mile walk daily and he doesn’t get all that many treats. On the Fromm’s, this target had him losing very slowly so I could cut it slightly a bit more, but I’m OK with the extra 5-6 lbs coming off slow.

I have been planning to add fish oil…or Omega 3…supplements. Am confused on amount…do I worry about the amount of epa/dha individually or combined? Example, one product I am looking at has a serving of 2 capsules. That serving contains 360 epa and 250 dha (with the two combined being 610). Is that enough for a dog his size or should I be looking to double that?

I had also been starting to look into Probiotics…HDM I see you listed several human probiotics…no problems with these? I had been looking at Nusentia’s Probiotic Miracle or NWC Naturals Total-biotics but the Swanson for example would be much less expensive.

sigh…apparently I can write novel like responses as well as original posts ;>

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi texasniteowl –

You may want to get your boy on some supplements that will help his allergies – quercitin, nettle, burdock root and perilla leaf, omega 3’s, bromelain, papain and coconut oil are all supplements shown to help ease allergy symptoms. Aunt Jeni’s sells a supplement called “Enhance Allergy Aid” with vitamin c, burdock root, quercitin and biotin. Vet’s Best sells a supplement called “Seasonal Allergy Support” with bioflavinoids, nettle leaf, vitamin c, perilla leaf and quercitin. You may want to consider purchasing one of these or a similar supplement and giving him some fish oil and coconut oil daily.

If your he is indeed allergic to your grass you should bathe him frequently in an herbal shampoo (avoid oatmeal-based shampoos) and have a foot soak ready to use after he’s been outdoors (you can make a solution using 1 gal. water, 1 c. hydrogen peroxide and 1-4 c. white vinegar or you can mix povidone iodine with water). Soak his feet every time he comes indoors so he’s not tracking the allergen through your house and vacuum frequently.

You should make sure his food is low in carbohydrates as high carbohydrate diets are “pro-inflammatory” and can worsen allergy symptoms. Your best bet, as Patty mentioned, would be a balanced raw diet. If that’s not possible a high protein canned or dehydrated food would be the next best option. If you must feed kibble keep it high protein. My top picks for kibble would be Orijen (38-40% protein), Nature’s Variety Instinct (35 – 42% protein), EVO (42-52% protein), Solid Gold’s Barking at the Moon (41% protein), Artemis Maximal (42% protein) Earthborn Primitive Natural (38% protein) or Wysong Epigen (60% protein). If you can at least top the kibble with balanced raw or a high quality canned or dehydrated food, this would be better than kibble alone.

Supplementing with probiotics is known to help allergies as well. I would recommend adding a high quality multi-strain probiotic to the food such as Mercola Probiotics, Garden of Life Primal Defense, Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS or Swanson’s Soil-Based Organisms. Probiotics may help firm up his stool as well. Some other ideas to help firm him up would be adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplementing with digestive enzymes.

Remember it may take several weeks for things to clear up. Good luck!

[brooklynp221]

My holistic vet told me to use the Ask Ariel probiotic because he has had several cats and dogs with diarrhea that did well with it. Brooklyn is really picky about supplements, and this is easy because I can just open the capsule and put it in her food.

http://www.askariel.com/product-p/81.htm

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi JillMcN –

Please be aware that using a pre-mix will not necessarily ensure that your dog is getting all the nutrients it needs. There are a few pre-mixes available that meet AAFCO nutrient profiles when prepared per instructions (The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, U-Stew, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix), but many have no claim of meeting the AAFCO’s nutrient standards and many of these – like Sojo’s, for example – don’t appear to be conplete and balanced when prepared according to the instructions. These unbalanced pre-mixes would be fine to use intermittently, but to feed long term you would need to know what supplements to add in order to balance the recipe. So if you’re planning on using a pre-mix long term, please make sure it meets the AAFCO’s nutrient standards.

The recipe you posted actually appears to be quite balanced, only a few things that I’d tweak. I’d cut the liver from 8 oz. to 4 oz. and give 4 oz. of another organ (kidney, lungs, spleen, etc.) I’d add another whole food supplement (such as alfalfa or wheatgrass) in addition to the kelp. I’d also highly recommend rotating in red meat for the poultry 50% of the time – this will help balance the fats as poultry is high in polyunsaturated fats (particularly linoleic acid) while red meat is high in saturated fats and low in polyunsaturated fats. Red meat is also much higher in iron and many micronutrients than poultry. There are several books available that contain complete and balanced recipes that are AAFCO compliant. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite – the recipes are for raw food but could easily be converted to cooked by substituting muscle meat for any RMB’s and adding 800-1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat.

[JillMcN]

If only the softest bones were removed and processed separately into mush… maybe. OK.

I’ll still remove all the bones this time and continue to add egg shell powder until I decide on which supplements should be added to the above.

Or could someone weigh in and tell me whether I should just get a pre-mix and add my own meat?
I won’t be feeding raw. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi nectarmom –

I wouldn’t be too corncerned about your dogs eating grass. Canine herbalist Juliette de Baircli Levy says that dogs bring on deliberate internal cleaning by eating grass, the grass helps to expel bile, mucus and other impurities. It’s not a strange thing for a dog to be eating grass and it doesn’t ncessarily mean they’re trying to make themselves vomit. If this becomes an ongoing issue, often if you add cereal grasses to their diet the behavior will lessen or cease completely. You can grow your own with a sprouter or buy a grass kit (they sell some specifically for pets). You would take the fresh grass sprouts and mice them and mix with your dogs’ meal. You can also buy grass supplements – wheat grass, barley grass, kamut grass, etc. Cereal grasses rich sources of several nutrients including chlorophyll, enzymes, amino acids and various trace minerals. I include wheat grass in my dogs’ whole food supplement and I grow fresh grass for my cats to nibble on.

[RDandSQ]

9 year old 75 pound dog’s lab work showed dilute urine specific gravity (1.007) and slightly high creatinine (1.7 vs. range of 0.5 – 1.6 mg/dL). Other kidney numbers were good. This dog often drinks a lot, leading to lower specific gravity. The vet suggested going to a Senior Food to get a bit less protein, so his kidneys have less work.

My dog is on Ziwipeak dyhydrated raw food (it’s not raw once dyhydrated) with “quality” protein and no grains etc. It’s pretty much all meat. He get’s 6 scoops per day, with fish oil and some other supplements (Missing Link and Sea Meal). I was focused on the percent protein (36%), but not on the total quantity. Doing the math it seems he’s been getting 122 gm protein per day!!

I now understand the guideline for older dogs is about 2 gms/ per kg (or about 1 gm/ pound), which is slightly more than for adult dogs. Based on this he should be getting about 75 gms/day.

I’m thinking rather than going to a commercial senior dog food with grains and other things, why not just give him less Ziwipeak and augment with vegetables? More so, as he seems allergic to meats other than venison. I was thinking of going down to 4 scoops (about 80 gm protein) per day, which is the recommended amount, and giving him vegetables such as pumpkin, sweet potato, or cauliflower or a combination to make sure he gets the same amount of food he is used to (he’s on the skinny side of normal)

Does that make sense? Other suggestions?

[Tuckers Mom]

Hi HDM: Thanks for your response and all the research you’ve done. I’ve ordered Swanson Mobility one of the supplements on your list and it has boswellia in it. I’m also switching to Earthborn Holistic since its time for some rotation anyway. I can’t get into the Vet until the end of the month. We walk every nite but most of his discomfort seems to come after a trip to the doggie park but he enjoys it so much I hate to take it away from him.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

You only want to use one calcium supplement. You can stick with one or rotate every so often. I’ve actually never used bone meal as a calcium source, but the thing to keep in mind if you want to use bone meal is that it contains both calcium AND phosphorus so you’ll have to add more bone meal than you would a pure calcium supplement (such as calcium citrate) to get the ratio in balance. Most bone meal has a 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio but it can vary by brand. Dr. Pitcairn’s book “Natural Health for Dogs and Cats” contains a guide guide for balancing recipes with bone meal, I’m sure there are a lot of websites out there that explain it as well. If you’re using a pure calcium supplement, the general rule is about 800 mg. per 1 lb. muscle meat and 1,000 mg. per 1 lb. organ meat – as long as you follow that general rule the end result should be balanced. Sometimes slightly more or less can be used depending on the type of meat – i.e.) fattier meats will be lower in phosphorus and thus require less calcium than leaner meats. In my boneless beef recipe above, after the nutrient analysis I found that I only needed 1,400 mg. calcium to get the ratio where I wanted it. The tripe didn’t require any calcium as tripe naturally has a balanced C:P ratio, 85% lean is a little fattier and contains less phosphorus than extra lean meat and my offal blend contains trachea and gullet which only have slightly more phosphorus than calcium. There really wasn’t any reason behind my choosing calcium citrate other than it was available in powder form – I prefer to use powdered supplements when possible. You could certainly use another calcium supplement such as eggshell calcium, calcium lactate, etc. Just make sure the supplement contains ONLY calcium – some add other vitamins and minerals which, if not accounted for, could over-supplement your dog’s meal. I’ve heard that certain calcium supplements are better assimilated than others, but I really wouldn’t worry too much about what type you’re using as long as you’re getting the amount right.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi BakersMom –

Unfortunately, if he has hip dysplasia there’s no reversing it. At 11 months old he’s already been through his critical growth phase and reducing calcium levels won’t help. Not feeding a puppy formula wouldn’t have caused this – but all of Taste of the Wild’s formulas are technically “puppy” formulas anyways (they’ve all met the AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages). A variety of factors are involved in the development of hip dysplasia – genetics (probably the biggest factor), over feeding, calcium intake during the critical growth phase (about the first 6 months), activity level (high impact activity during growth can cause hip dysplasia) and probably numerous other factors we aren’t yet aware of. If you do find out your pup has hip dysplasia it’s not the end of the world, there are several actions you can take to help him live a long and comfortable life. If the dysplasia is severe, your vet may recommend surgery – most orthopedic surgeries have a high success rate. Surgery is expensive, but if the dysplasia is severe it will be cheaper to get surgery rather than pay for expensive supplements and medications for the rest of his life. If the dysplasia is more mild, often the deterioration of the joint can be slowed by supplementing with GAGs and pain and inflammation can be controlled with natural supplements such as boswellia, turmeric, omega 3’s, white willow, yucca, tart cherry, etc. It will also be important to keep him active so the muscles around his hip stay strong, making the hip less likely to luxate. Low impact activities like walking and swimming are great for dogs with joint problems. Human supplements are generally cheaper than pet-specific supplements – I would recommend going for something with glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM and also supplementing with an anti-inflammatory such as turmeric or boswellia. Adjust the human dose depending on his weight – for example give a 25 lb. dog 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog 1/2 the recommended human dose, etc. Give twice the recommended dose for the first two weeks and if you see improvement reduce the dose to half and discontinue the supplement for two consecutive days each week to help keep him from building a tolerance to the ingredients.

[theBCnut]

Don’t worry about the veg unless you see something going on that makes you suspect a real problem. My personal feelings on adding veg and fruits is that I like knowing that mine are getting a variety of antioxidants, just in case. They may not digest every speck of it but they are getting a variety.

I feed twice a day, so 20% of that is about 3 meals, so I feed bones 3 times a week and don’t worry if they don’t eat the usual supplements in those meals. Some people feed raw meaty bones once a day and then for the other meal they make sure that all the days supplements are mixed in.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Guys!
I just wanted to give an update on how Dawson is doing on his “real” raw diet! So far he has loved and therefore devoured every meal he has had, which is something for him! He bounces and dances until I put his bowl down. He has loved all the proteins, so far he has had chicken, turkey, duck and beef. What a change for the better! I have also noticed that his eyes are nice and clear and he doesnt have constantly wet “cheeks”. His fur is so soft! It is so nice to have him eat with such vigour instead of throwing his meal all over the floor.
I have a question though, there are carrots in the “dinners” , but I noticed they look the same coming out as they did going in! I was thinking about changing to the 100% meat blends that dont include veggies, or should I not worry too much about carrot pieces? If I do switch to the 100% do i have to worry about more supplements, he gets krill oil, vitamin D and vitamin E. He is getting locally pre-made raw Big Country Raw. Plus I am wanting to add more things like turkey necks, and he Loves beef trachea (so far it is dehydrated), I believe that you guys said it could be up to 20% of his diet, is that right?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shawna –

There aren’t any Mercola products that I don’t support – I think they all look great actually. Concerning the joint supplement I feel that while it’s a good supplement, a human product can be purchased with the same or similar ingredients that would be cheaper per dose . Also, the poster that was inquiring about it has a puppy, I feel that the Mercola joint product contains a lot of ingredients which would be FANTASTIC for an older dog or a dog that already has arthritis, but a bit of an overkill for a young dog with no joint issues. I think for a young healthy dog frequent RMB’s or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement is plenty and a joint product like Mercola’s would be an unnecessary expense.

Concerning Mercola’s overall supplement line – no issues other than price. Coming from someone with large dogs, quality supplements can get VERY expensive. I’m always looking for ways to cut costs and always evaluate supplements on a cost per dose basis. Concerning all “pet” supplements in general (not just Mercola’s), I find that they’re overpriced and the equivalent product can be purchased in “human” form for much cheaper. I’d love to support Dr. Becker’s products but, for example, it would be $105 a month for me to give my three her probiotics and enzymes and it would cost me $10 a month to give my three Swanson’s supplement which has 15 strains of probiotics and 5 digestive enzymes (going off the recommended dosages on both products’ labels). I just don’t have that kind of money for supplements and I’m sure many others don’t either.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Janet –

If you’re sure the “scooting” is not due to anal gland issues I would bring a stool sample to the vet to check for parasites just in case (certain worms – such as tapeworms – can cause “scooting”).

To help with the stools and the transition to a new food I would add a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes (there’s no need to buy a “pet” supplement, something from the health section for at the grocery store with suffice and likely be cheaper). You can continue the pumpkin and supplements permanently if need be.

Grain-free foods are, unfortunately, pricier than grain-inclusive foods. Earthborn is probably one of the most budget-friendly grain-free foods available. Some other options would be Nutrisource, Taste of the Wild, The Source, Victor, Authority and 4Health (note: Taste of the Wild and 4Health are manufactured by Diamond). NutriSource, Taste of the Wild and Source run about the same price as Earthborn while Victor, Authority and 4Health are slightly cheaper. Authority Grain-Free is available exclusively at Petsmart. The Source and 4Health are available exclusively at Tractor Supply. Earthborn, Taste of the Wild and Nutrisource can be found at most high end pet specialty stores and online. Victor will likely be the most difficult food to locate – I haven’t been able to find an online retailer and it’s not sold in my area but if you can find it, it looks like a fantastic food and it a great bargain.

You’re correct that dry food doesn’t really clean teeth, that’s a myth. I wish it wasn’t though – I’d eat potato chips and cookies all day and use the excuse that it’s for my dental health lol. 🙂 Canned food is actually healthier and more species appropriate (higher moisture content and higher protein levels) so if you can afford to occasionally buy some quality canned food (4Health has some grain-free varieties that are a bargain at only $0.99 per can) that would be great for your dog. Healthy “people food” is good to add to kibble too – eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean meat, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, low glycemic veggies, etc.

I think raw bones are best for dental health. My dogs eat a raw diet and get raw bones daily – beef ribs, pork necks, turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. If you’re going to buy something from the store I’d go for “natural” chews (make sure they’re made in the US) such as dried tracheas, bully sticks and pig ears – these are species-appropriate (high protein, grain-free) and great for dental health. As far as “treats,” I’d go with high protein meaty treats such as jerky (made in the US of course), grain-free biscuits or freeze-dried raw foods. I’m a big fan of Nature’s Variety Instinct dog biscuits, EVO biscuits and Darford Zero-G biscuits (although I’m not sure if the Darford biscuits are being made anymore 🙁 ). I also feed freeze-dried raw (such as NV Instinct and Stella & Chewy’s) as treats.

[Mom2Cavs]

I have some favorites:
Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Ark Naturals Gentle Digest (pre/probiotics)
Fresh Digest or Optagest (same product, different name, prebiotics/enzymes)
Mercola Probiotics
Vetri-Science Mega Probiotics (pre/probiotics)
Hoistic Solutions (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Naturvet (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Nature’s Farmacy has some good supplements, too, that I like

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hwballew –

If you go to the review section of DFA and read the reviews for Purina and Iams you’ll see that they are all very low quality foods. Dry food is definitely more convenient, but a balanced home prepared food is the healthiest. By type – from worst to best: kibble < canned < dehydrated < commercially prepared fresh food < balanced home cooked < commercial raw < balanced homemade raw (granted the foods are rated the same). If you want to stick with kibble for convenience reasons, I'd recommend picking out 2 or 3 (or more) 4 or 5 star dry foods and rotating – top the dry food with a quality canned food, raw food or healthy "people" food (eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean cuts of meat, etc.). Canned foods, dehydrated foods and commercially prepared cooked and raw foods would be a step up from kibble and wouldn't require the time and knowledge that a home-prepared diet requires. These options are more costly than dry, but if cost isn't an issue they'd be a big improvement over dry food. If you do want to home prepare her meals, research first. It's not difficult to prepare a balance diet but it does take some research. There are many great books available with recipes formulated by veterinarians and nutritionists. Dogaware.com is probably the best online resource for homemade diets. The homemade food and raw food forms here have some useful information – my dogs' menus are posted on the suggested menu thread in the raw food forum.

For digestion problems I would supplement with a high quality probiotic supplement, enzymes and a little bit of plain canned pumpkin. Remember, because she's eaten lower quality foods for so long she may experience some digestive upset when you switch foods. These supplements will help a bit – make sure to do a gradual transition.

Is she on a joint supplement? I just posted some supplement recommendations to another poster on the "Mercola Joint Supplement vs. Others" thread under the "Dog Supplements" forum.

Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Liquid and powder supplements are harder to come across with human supplements. I’ve seen a few liquid human joint supplements, but nothing I’ve been overly impressed with and they cost about twice as much per dose as non-liquid supplements. I’d recommend powder-filled capsules when buying human supplements (that’s what I get for my dogs). They’re easy to pull apart and you can just sprinkle the powder into the food – you also don’t have to worry about measuring, just count the capsules.

For older dogs already experiencing arthritis, I think a supplement with both joint maintenance properties (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) and anti-inflammatory/pain relief properties (boswellia, yucca, white willow, etc.) will provide the most relief.

Some of my favorite joint supplements:

1) Joint Care Rx – Manufactured by Advance Physician’s Formulas. Available direct from the manufacturer’s website and on Amazon. $25.95 for 120 capsules. Contains: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, cetyl myristoleate, boswellia, cat’s claw, devil’s claw, grape seed extract and sea cucumber.

2) Wysong Arthegic – Manufactured by Wysong and available on their human supplement website. $32.89 for 90 capsules. Contains: boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. For extra support, could be given in addition to Wysong’s Joint Complex which contains cartilage and MSM. Wysong offers quantity discounts.

3) Swanson’s Mobility Essentials – Sold by Swanson Vitamins. $10.99 for 180 capsules. Contains: Vitamin C, Zinc, Manganese, Glucosamine, MSM, Boswellia, Bromelain, Chondroitin, White Willow, Curcumin, Devil’s Claw, Quercetin, Sea Cucumber and Yucca.

Starting on any joint supplement, I’d begin by giving her twice as much as she should get for about 2 – 3 weeks. If you see improvement drop the dosage down to what she should be getting and give the supplement 5 days on/2 days off. Taking two days off per week will help to keep her from building up a tolerance to the effects of the supplement. You can also give extra omega 3’s daily to help with inflammation.

I’m not sure how bad her arthritis in, but you may also want to consider a systematic enzyme supplement such as Wobenzym or Medizym. These are just digestive enzymes but they’re in a specially coated capsule so they aren’t broken down in the stomach. You give them to the dog on an empty stomach and the enzymes help ease pain and inflammation and also boost the immune system.

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
I also was going to ask if you have had a fecal test for giardia. My pups had runny stools when I first got them. They also were eating their stools. Very gross! I kept thinking was caused by food and switched a few times and did not help. Their poop was a weird color, however. Often green or yellowish. Turns out they had giardia after a fecal test. They had to have 3 or 4 rounds of metronidazole and panacure to get rid of it. Tough to get rid of with two of them. After so many rounds of meds it took a while to get their stools back to normal again consistently. I used vetri-probiotics bowel defense for dogs. It contains a prebiotic, probiotics, enzymes and ingredients for diarrhea. My vet also recommended DGL plus to soothe their digestive tract. I found helpful supplements on Thorne supplements website, healthy pets site and Amazon’s site as well. Also many helpful tips on this site, such as adding pumpkin and healthier foods for them. I regret to say that I had never read an ingredient label with previous pets. Now I’m obsessed with it lol! One more site that has much info for digestive issues is dogaware.com. Good luck! I know it is frustrating and stressful.

[InkedMarie]

Thanks HDM. My dogs don’t ever turn up their noses at anything in their food. Ever. The last dog that did was Tucker when I got a free bag of Natures Variety medallions.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

I’d say 1/4 C. would be fine. I generally give my guys 1/4 C. each on the days they have green tripe and 1/2 C. each on the days they don’t get tripe. It would be a great addition to kibble meals – you could use it to make a “cereal” and add moisture. Most dogs tolerate it very well as it’s very low in lactose.

[InkedMarie]

Hi ladies, thanks for the info! Patty answered the question, i think, that i was going to ask. Mine rarely get tripe because I forget about ordering it. I do have a certain amount of beef coming, with tripe, from Hare Today but they won’t be getting beef daily. I was going to ask what to do about the fact they won’t be getting beef daily but I think Patty answered it: 1/2 dose a couple times a week. Gemma will still get them as she is on Bravo Balance for part of breakfast and THK in the evening.
Regarding the kefir, HDM: whats the dosage? I have two 30 pounders and one 22 pounder

[theBCnut]

Back to the OP, I only feed tripe once a week as an entire meal and I have a dog with issues, so I still use probiotics 1/2 dose about twice a week. I do the digestive enzymes 1/2 dose with kibble for him. I’m not sure he really gets any benefit from them, but I’ve got them from when he was really having issues and I’m going to use them up. I got the 3 jar deal from Mercola and I’m still on my first jar, months later.

[DogFoodie]

My dad used to make yogurt. Something makes me think making yogurt is a heckuva lot easier than making kefir.

Lifeway kefir it is, HDM!

Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Betsy –

I buy my kefir. My Hannaford carries Lifeway and Evolve brand – I get the Lifeway because it as 12 strains of probiotics (versus 11 in the Evolve) and more vitamin d. I eat it myself as well – it’s great in granola. I’ve never looked into making kefir but I’d imagine it’s similar to making yogurt, a lot of people make homemade yogurt.

[DogFoodie]

OK, in a nutshell, my question was about kefir. I’m interested in it for myself and my dogs and recommended it to a friend recently for her dog ~ kefir made with goat milk as her dog is allergic to cow’s milk, which she could pick up at a nearby health food store. It doesn’t sound like making kefir is easy though and I wondered if you made your own or bought it and if it’s difficult, etc.

[DogFoodie]

Hey… where’s the rest of my post? Weird.

[DogFoodie]

Pardon my hijack, Marie!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Glad to hear you’re ordering from Hare Today! Their stuff is awesome, you’ll love it. I don’t think probiotics and enzymes are necessary for a raw diet, especially not if the dog is getting green tripe. I don’t supplement with enzymes or probiotics. My dogs get green tripe every other day and kefir daily. With that said it’s certainly not going to hurt anything to add probiotics and enzymes, it would just be an unnecessary expense imo.

[theBCnut]

Hi Jan

It was the first homemade recipe I tried and the reason I went ahead and started feeding raw. It was easy enough to follow and really easy to tweak as I learned more. I rotate everything including supplements, so I still use DinOvite every few days. I’ve also been buying grinds from Hare Today that work really well with whichever supplement mix I want to add. DinOvite plus SuperOmega plus a grind is super simple.

[InkedMarie]

After exchanging a bunch of emails with Tracy and talking to Alexandra via FB, we decided to try getting some grinds from Hare Today. We ordered chicken, beef, turkey and duck. They all have ground meat, bone and organs and the beef has added tripe. Tracy from Hare today said I don’t need to continue to use probiotics and digestive enzymes: what do you all think of that? Do you use them if you feed raw?

[DogFoodie]

Thank you so much, Sandy! I was hoping you’d also chime in. : ) Those are all great recommendations.

I’m so glad my friend is willing to switch foods. I think what she’s feeding actually contains some of the allergens that are problematic for her dog. Thank you both, Jan and Sandy, so much for your help!

I also happened to read this, posted by Hound Dog Mom recently to someone else whose dog has yeast issues and thought it would be great advice for my friend as well:

“I would recommend adding a high quality multi-strain probiotic – probiotics are “good” bacteria that will help keep the “bad” bacteria (like yeast) in check. I would also add a supplement with natural anti-fungal, anti-bacterial anti-parasitic and anti-viral properties. Some good options would be coconut oil (organic virgin), oil of oregano or fresh minced garlic (make sure you give an appropriate amount of garlic and don’t give for more than 3-4 days consecutively, take at least 2 days off after every 3-4 day cycle). If your dog has yeast on her paws (or any other area, such as the ears) they should be disinfected daily. Soak the paws in a solution of 1 gallon water, 1-4 cups of white vinegar and 1 cup of hydrogen peroxide. Clean the ears with 3 parts white vinegar to 1 part witch hazel. If the whole body is infected with yeast bathe the dog in a natural anti-fungal shampoo – I would look for a tea tree oil shampoo, avoid oatmeal shampoos as the oatmeal acts as food to the yeast. ”

I think those supplements are easy enough to add to her dog’s diet ~ easy enough that I think she’d actually do it!

[Mom2Cavs]

Wow, veggienut, that sounds terrible! I don’t know if it’s the food, but I do know a couple of people with Yorkies and they both feed high protein foods to them and they do fine. Foods like Acana, Fromm grain free, etc. And I’ve been feeding Acana Duck for about 2 weeks now and my dogs are doing well on it. I’m also topping with either Primal FD or Stella & Chewy’s FD and adding probiotics (which I do to any food I feed). I do believe that some dogs may need certain percentages of things or certain supplements depending on their overall health issues but, I’m sorry, I don’t think certain breeds need foods made for “Yorkies”, “Poodles”, etc. For instance, I have Cavaliers and they’re known for heart problems so I sometimes supplement with things that benefit the heart, like coq10, hawthorn, taurine, l-carnitine, etc. I have an old mixed breed and she has bladder problems so I give her a urinary supplement. If certain breeds need to eat certain brands/foods made just for them, then where is the “Cavalier” food? I’m not trying to be rude, just my opinion. Also, you state your Yorkie needs carbs in his diet and Acana has none….it really does, because all kibble has to have some carb binder to hold it together. Some may have more than others, and of course there are different kinds of carbs to use. The fact is that not one food will work for all dogs, so I just think that Acana may not work for your Yorkie. Perhaps in the future, when his digestion settles down, you can find a different food to try for him that is better quality than RC.

[Hound Dog Mom]

doggiedog –

No single food meets all of a living thing’s needs and whole food derived nutrients are far superior to synthetically added vitamins and minerals. I “supplement” my dogs’ food – but not with synthetic vitamins and minerals. They get super foods such as spirulina, chlorella, bee pollen; healthy fats such as fish oil, coconut oil, etc.; foods rich in enzymes and probiotics; healthy herbs like turmeric and garlic; etc. What I feed my dogs is so naturally rich in vitamins and minerals that I don’t need to add anything synthetic. I don’t trust a dog food company to add everything needed to keep my dogs’ immune systems in peak condition – because there is no dog food that does this. Chemically synthesized vitamins and minerals are more likely to be tainted, pose a greater risk for overdose and aren’t utilized as efficiently by the body – in whole foods, nutrients work synergistically with hundreds of other compounds and many of these compounds have different forms in nature and can only be found in whole foods. Synthetic supplements have been linked to increased risk of cancer and increases in lifestyle diseases in people – why wouldn’t it be the same for our pets? Many medical organizations advise against the consumption of synthetic vitamins and minerals for humans. This is why foods should be rotated so a dog isn’t overexposed to anything. Your statement that different breeds need different foods isn’t accurate – or at least shouldn’t be accurate if a dog is eating an appropriate food. “a bulldog, which is prone to digestion issue, excessive gas, and weight gain” – probiotics and enzymes address digestive issues and gas, if a dog were eating a fresh species-appropriate diet rich in natural enzymes and probiotics this wouldn’t be an issue; dogs that are overweight don’t need a special food, they need their portion size (calories) reduced, weight loss is based on calories in and calories out not fat content or caloric-density of a food. “Poodle, which is prone to cataracts, dementia, and has a fully curly coat” – again, if eating a high quality species-appropriate foods the chances of any of these “tendencies” causing an issue would be greatly reduced. High quality foods have balanced ratios of quality omega 3 and 6 fatty acids for the coat health and whole food antioxidants help with health issues such as cataracts and dementia. Low-grade foods like RC, SD, Purina, etc. have to add supplements because their base ingredients are so low quality and nutritionally devoid. Luckily for these companies there are tons of people out there like you and veggienut that actually believe synthetically supplemented corn puffs with a picture of your breed on your bag are the best thing to feed.

[DoggieDoc22]

“It’s better to buy a good adult food and then add supplements to that. Most dry dog food makers add supplements to their food before cooking, and the food is cooked at such a high temperature that the supplements are all but gone.

Besides, wouldn’t you and/or your vet rather control the amount of supplements in a dog’s food, rather than having somebody else do it for you?”

Or you could feed your dog a complete and balanced diet so that there would be no need for supplementing. By supplementing the food that you give to your dog basically what you are saying is that the food you have chosen to feed them isnt providing all of the nutrients that they need so you are then going to go out and spend MORE money to buy a supplement, rather than just feeding them something that met all of their needs in the first place.