So I am going to be switching to completely raw here shortly as I just bought a chest freezer (best investment ever). I was wondering if you all could help me out in figuring out what kind of muscle meat/organ meat/bone I would need to get for a whole month if I were to order it from a site such as MPC.
My dog Moose is around 7 months old and I usually feed him about 1.5 cups of honest kitchen 2 times a day. Right at the moment he is being boarded for a couple weeks and when I get him back I’ll double check his weight but I’d say he weighs 50lbs or so right now.
Now if I were to feed 3% of his body weight I would be feeding him 1.5lbs of food a day. If I were to say I needed a months worth of food (30 days) I would need 45lbs of food . That doesn’t really split it up between what I would need for organ meats, muscle meats, and bone. I am not so good with math and was hoping you guys could walk me through the process of figuring this all out! I would very much appreciate it so later on I can do the calculations myself.
From reading around it seems if your not feeding a whole prey model diet you should go with food consisting of 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ meat, 5% of which must be liver over the course of 1 week. But from my understanding you don’t have to feed it balanced everyday. You could feed straight muscle meat one day and then maybe a few turkey necks or something (I understand they are mostly bone) another and then give them some liver or other organ meats. So long as by the end of the week you met the 80/10/10 percentages.
From MPC, you can get whole ground animals. They will have the right amount of meat, organs, and bone. The tripe supermixes are good too. About every third day, I give raw meaty bones. Feed about 2/3 raw meaty bones and 1/3 meat to get the bone to meat ratio right. An example would be feed 1 lbs of turkey neck plus 1/2 lbs of turkey meat. I have heard you should try to keep the calcium/phosphorus balance correct daily, it’s the other stuff that you can balance over time.
If you want to do RMBs every day you need some thing like 30 lbs of raw meaty bones and 15 lbs of boneless meat.
Now since I have a large breed dog though don’t I have to watch out for how much bone I put in there? I thought I needed more boneless meat then I would bone? Bone only accounts for 10% and meat accounts for 80% and organs another 10%. This is all very confusing.
RMBs have meat on them, that’s the M part. That’s also why I don’t feed them every day(even though I don’t have large breed dogs anymore, I’m still paranoid), you can afford to have 20% of your meals unbalanced, if you don’t get the calcium exactly right. Remember also that bones are not 100% calcium.
I was reading around and heard that watching your dogs poop is the easiest way to tell if your giving to much bone (or organs). If your are feeding to much bone the poop is hard and white, feed to much organ and it’s runny and soft.
I’ve also read in many places where people that are experienced with raw just say “do it.” Just start it and make adjustments as you go. It just makes me so nervous because I want to be sure I am not making a mistake that would harm him you know.
I also read that if you feed grinds that they don’t get the benefit of a teeth cleaning that tearing into a chicken leg or whole chicken would be. I wouldn’t think that would be a huge issue if you were feeding some turkey necks or something mostly whole once or twice a week right?
I believe to start off Patty I might order those grinds from their site. I have 2 weeks to really make up my mind and get my act together before he gets home from being boarded. At least it will give me piece of mind knowing he’s getting what he needs and until I get completely comfortable with it. Until then, more research! 😛
I started introducing raw with commercial frozen patties. I gave them a few bites a day and that was it and slowly increased it to a whole feeding. Then one day I decided to try chicken wings a couple times a week. As they did well I increased the types of raw I fed like legs and necks and ribs. They were also eating kibble. Then I bought the recipe book by Dr Becker. Actually I bought that book and read it and thought it was difficult so it sat around for a couple months until I decided to do it – make my own grinds. So after my first batch (and purchasing a grinder) I decided it was easy like 1 – 2 – 3. Just go at your own pace and what you have time for and maybe keep some backup food. I still feed kibble as I’m the only one in the house that feeds the dogs raw so when I’m not home, they eat kibble. Also good to have when going on trips or leaving the dogs at home for a pet sitter.
I started by googling homemade dog food and went with the yeast starvation diet since it only needed a very limited number of things added to it. That gave me time to do more research. I started out using raw as a topper to their kibble and then I moved to feeding one meal raw, the other kibble. like Sandy, I’m the only one in the house that is willing to give raw meet to the dogs so mine or also still on kibble too, just in case.
Hound Dog MomParticipant
I feed grinds for breakfast because it’s easier to incorporate the vegetables and supplements. For dinner they get RMB’s – usually a pork neck or a chicken back with some hearts, gizzards, eggs, etc. I think as long as at least a few meals a week are RMBs the dog will be getting the dental benefits.
When my dogs get too much bone sometimes their poop is almost a powder – it’s really light colored and they’ll go and it’ll just crumble into a powder. When they get a meal of organs their poop it usually darker than normal, never runny though.
Ok so I think I got what I want to do down.
Moose is 50lbs (Just weighed him). Feeding him 4% of his body weight to start off I think and will adjust from there (He got really underweight at his boarding kennel, his hip bones are exposed, I’m pretty angry about it, someone could have called me and told me so I could tell them to up his food. Grr). I have decided to start off I’m going to do what HDM does and feed a grind in the morning and then an RMB at night which will probably be turkey necks.
If I were to feed 1lb of the chicken grind from MPC in the morning and then 1lb or turkey necks at night for a whole month does that sound like a pretty balanced diet for a 7 month old large breed (American Bull Dog) puppy? It’s the whole bone/calcium thing that kind of scares me.
Since coming back from his boarding kennel (I brought his food with him so he has been on THK since he has been there also) he has been super gassy and he poops 5 times a day at least and they are very very soft. I have upped his feedings to 2.5 cups in the morning and 2.5 at night to try and put some weight back on him so he doesn’t look so emaciated. I really am angry they allowed him to get that skinny. Really kicking myself for boarding him there, but they had excellent reviews and we even did a puppy class with the trainer and it seemed like a wonderful place. Can’t wait to get him right again.
Hound Dog MomParticipant
Hi DieselJunki –
If you’re feeding turkey necks at night I would recommend feeding a red meat grind in the morning. Dogs should get an even mix of red meat and poultry. Poultry is high in polyunsaturated fats, particularly linoleic acid (an essential omega 6 fatty acid) and a poultry only diet could easily supply an over-abudance of omega 6’s – omega 6’s are essential but they need to be balanced in the correct proportion with the other essential fatty acids. Red meat tends to be high in saturated fats and low in polyunsaturated fats – this means that a red meat only diet won’t meet the dog’s dietary requirements for linoleic acid (an essential omega 6 fatty acid) and alpha linolenic acid (an essential omega 3 fatty acid). Feeding red meat for one meal and poultry for another will help to ensure your dog receives essential fatty acids in the correct proportions. I also feel that the bulk of the organ content of a raw diet should come from ruminant sources as there is a much wider variety to choose from – the only poultry organs I’ve ever seen available for purchase are livers, for ruminants it’s possible to purchase liver, kidney, lung, pancreas, spleen, etc. Red meat and poultry also have different amino acid and mineral profiles so feeding both will help to fill in the gaps. Because you’re ordering from MPC and because calcium levels are a concern at this point, I would recommend feeding the Green Beef Tripe Supermix 5 mornings per week (This mix will have a low, but balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio due to the fact that it’s comprised of 50% green tripe. It also contains 40% whole ground young beef and 10% trachea and gullet – trachea and gullet are rich in glucosamine and chondroitin and good for the joints). The other two mornings I would feed their Ground Beef Organ Mix – this is 50% heart, 30% liver and 20% kidney (so, because heart is considered a muscle meat, this mix is 50% muscle meat and 50% organ meat). Feeding organ meat two mornings per week will ensure he’s received the appropriate amount of organ meat in his diet (if you are only feeding turkey necks for dinner the necks should balance out the high levels of phosphorus in the organ mix). To get him to gain weight, try adding a tablespoon of coconut oil to his grind every morning. Good luck!
- This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
Thanks HDM. I will start the coconut oil everyday as you said. It’s embarrassing to take him out as I feel people look at me like I am a horrible owner and starve my dog! Ahhh.
You really have a ton of knowledge on this stuff. I think you should make a website or write a book on it! I’d buy it!
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