So my 8 year old dog is currently getting the following for every meal (fed twice a day):
8oz patties (sliced from 5 lb. Armillenos K9 raw tube.. either beef, chicken, duck, or turkey.. and contains 70% meat, 30% bone)
Salmon Oil (by Bravo that supposedly has vitamin E in it)
Multi vitamin from Pet Naturals
Chondrotin treats X2 from Pet Naturals
+ A little bit of veggies mixed in.
He is doing fine on this, but I feel I am missing something. His energy level is lower (meaning he doesn’t like to run a lot, but can do long walks with out a problem).. He seems to need to urinate on everything, even if nothing comes out…His coat is OK (maybe I need to add more salmon oil..?)..
What species of dog and are you feeding him the recommended amount?
Raw should be about 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs(half should be liver). I also add fish oil, superfoods, and a whole foods vitamin supplement. An easy way to get started balancing your raw is to get a premix.
Hound Dog MomParticipant
Hi Bigcoco –
1) 30% bone is way too much. As Patty said, bone should comprise 10% of the diet. The calcium to phosphorus ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 (ideally around 1.2 – 1.3:1). When the diet is 10% bone, 10% organ meat and 80% muscle meat the calcium to phosphorus ratio is right within that optimal range. A diet of 30% bone will be throwing that ratio of balance.
2) I checked out the product website and I can’t see where organs are included in the mixes? All I see is where they state 70% meat and 30% bone. If organ meat is not included in adequate quantities in the 70% “meat” you’ll need to feed organ meat. Organ meat should comprise 10% of the diet – 5% being liver and 5% being other organs (kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc.). Organ meat provides crucial vitamins and minerals that aren’t provided by muscle meat.
3) I can’t find where the level of vitamin e in the Bravo salmon oil is stated on their website and often the amounts added to fish oils are too low. I checked out the Pet Naturals of Vermont Daily Best supplement and there is little vitamin e in that either. Small dogs should get 50 – 100 IU per day, medium dogs 100 – 200 IU per day and large dogs 200 – 400 IU per day. Vitamin e requirements increase when fish oil (omega 3’s) is being supplemented, if adequate quantities are not received with omega 3 fatty acid supplementation the dog will eventually develop a vitamin e deficiency.
4) It’s also possible your dog could be deficient in certain trace nutrients – it’s hard telling without a nutrient analysis but because the Pet Naturals supplement is designed to be fed with a complete and balanced commercial food the amounts of vitamins and minerals are very low (as they are with most pet supplements). To ensure your dog is getting all the trace nutrients he needs I’d recommend either supplementing with a human multivitamin – base the dosage off a 100 lb. person (i.e. 25 lb. dog gets 1/4 human dosage, 50 lb. dog gets 1/2 human dosage, 75 lb. dog gets 3/4 human dosage, 100 lbs.+ gets human dosage) – or adding whole food supplements. I prefer to avoid synthetic supplements for my dogs so I feed a variety of nutrient-dense whole food supplements like kelp, alfalfa, bee pollen, spirulina, wheatgrass, glandulars, sprouted nuts & seeds, etc.
“Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a fantastic resource for raw feeding. It’s a really great book for beginners – short and easy to understand and includes AAFCO compliant recipes. You may want to checkout this book. It was a constant resource for me when I first started feeding homemade raw.
Thanks so much everyone! Really great stuff!
We feed an organ mix that is separate from the 70/30 meat feeding.
I will work harder on getting more meat into the meal.. Right now, I am giving about half to a quarter for the 8 oz pattie of the 70/30 minced meat, and placing chicken breast that I picked up at the store… atleast for the time being.. trying to figure out what would be the most cost effective way to supply the added meat I am supplementing with the Armelinos to help correct the calcium/phos ratio.
I will try and find a better way to get the true trace nutrients into his diet since the pat naturals isn’t doing the trick. I don’t want to go synthetic either, so will be looking for the ingredients you just mentioned above… Is there a mix you get? Or do you just go to the grocery store and pick up the kelp/alfalfa/ wheatgrass..etc?
I will check out that book too.
I also just bought some “happy hips” that has vitamin E (100u) inside.. should this do the trick then? I am looking into the quantity included in the salmon oil. What is the rule with vitamin E and salmon oil/omega 3? i.e. how often to give the vitamin e..
My pup is a terrier mix (have no clue.. he looks like a benji mixed with an irish wolfhound..) He is 50 pounds.
Hound Dog MomParticipant
If you check out the recommended raw menus thread you’ll see some of my menus. My most recent menu (located near the end of the thread) had a full nutrient analysis done and it exceeds the AAFCO nutrient standards for all life stages. You can check out what types of things I’m adding to supply trace nutrients. I make my own whole food supplement my mixing equal parts kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, wheatgrass and bee pollen – they come in powder form that I order from Swanson. I also add things like sprouted nuts and seeds, dairy, oysters, sardines, cod liver oil, etc.
I find that the cheapest way to add muscle meat is gizzards, hearts and green tripe. Although not very appealing to people, these are all quality sources of nutritious and cheap protein for dogs. I have three large dogs that, combined, consume over 6 lbs. of meat per day. About 90% of their meals are raw meaty bones, organs and things like gizzards/heart/tripe – I’d never be able to afford feeding them if they were getting things like boneless skinless chicken breast and lean ground beef as the main component of their meals on a daily basis.
Assuming you are talking about the Happy Hips jerky made by Dogswell, they do not contain 100 IU vitamin E per strip – they contain 100 IU vitamin E per kilogram. Meaning your dog would have to eat over 2 lbs. of treats to get 100 IU vitamin E. Also – just a warning – while I haven’t heard of any issues with the Dogswell brand specifically, a lot of dogs are getting very sick by eating jerky treats made in China and the Dogswell treats are made in China. Just be careful. I personally give my dogs a human vitamin e supplement. My dogs are all large (ranging in size from 68 lbs. to 110 lbs.) – I divide 2-400 IU capsules between their daily breakfast mix so each dog gets about 267 IU per day. I would say you could give your dog a 200 IU capsule daily or a 400 IU capsule every other day.
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