[AlexandraY]

New to this forum, I’m just skimming as I’ve been feeding and researching vegan dog foods since I decided to try V-Dog about 3-4 years ago, as there was a sample at the shelter where I volunteer. What I heard from UC Davis veterinary school is that dogs are OMNIVORES. Although related to wolves, they’ve been a separate species for MILLENNIA. They generally do not hunt, so they don’t get the vegetables and grains (and by-products, btw) wild canides get when they eat the entire animal they’ve killed.
Again, according to Davis & several sources ,including Nestle & Nesheim’s “Feed Your Pet Right,” dogs are biologically capable of digesting animal proteins.
I could cite many other sources, although there are veterinarians who disagree. But the facts are facts. Meat does not contain better “quality” protein; it simply contains complete amino acids. If you combine properly and add B12 and a few other supplements, the food is complete.
What I’ve found, in reading the arguments against, is that people have a ‘feeling’ dogs should eat meat for health because they are descended from wolves. But that’s a cultural bias, not a biological one.
Forgive me if I’ve repeated; I just skimmed for now.
Will give more citations on request!

[Duke The Boxer]

Unfortunately rescue Dane mom I also tried the dr langers probiotic but it didn’t do anything for duke. Within a day or two of giving him the terra biota his stools firmed up more. Also he stopped having room clearing gas. But with dogs it’s just like humans some medicine and supplements work better than others.

[Spiritpaws]

The super green foods are alkalizing, so if your dog’s pH is 8.5 which is extremely alkaline, you would want to add more acid foods: apple cider vinegar, beef, organ meats, salmon, sardines, turkey, flax oil, cheese, blueberries and cranberries (to name a few).

[dogspotindia]

Are u seeing any problem with your Dog health if yes than you try any thing else, if no than why are you so worried about your dog diet. Once your vet says that their is no need of anything added to his food.

[Duke The Boxer]

Hey gang i know this subject has been beat to death but i want to get a more current and updated list of the different omega supplements that you are giving your dogs. My local vet bottles his own supplement but i want some variety. Please comment guys. Ive seen Grizzley Salmon Oil mentioned a couple times.

[chrisalcor]

I agree with Patti – I raise rottweilers have push protein whenever possible. I use all life stages most often – and lots of grain free. Don’t forget lots of raw meaty bones. It increases the calcium, supplements with the chewing needs and the protein in the marrow is great for their skin, coats and muscle growth.

[InkedMarie]

Plavoie,
Go to the dog food ingredients forum here, on top, you’ll see a stickie with grain and white potato free foods. That might be a good place to start. Keep in mind, you’ll need to watch everything your dog eats, including treats & supplements. With one of mine, I have to be very careful….he gets one type of salmon oil because most others have preservatives that I don’t know if its soy based (he can’t have soy).

Also, you mentioned not wanting to go to the vets because they’ll put him on steroids. You are the dog owner, you can say NO.

[Mom2Cavs]

Yes, my Cavalier that has allergies has anal gland issues as one of her symptoms. She can’t have poultry, at least chicken, but just to be safe I’m staying away from all poultry. I am using grain free, poultry free dry and canned foods. I also make sure any supplements or treats don’t contain offending ingredients. Since I’ve done this her symptoms are gone.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.

[Heartsong7]

We started using Dinovite for our 14 yr old Chihuahua who was scratching excessively and developed bald patches on his skin. He also had moderate arthritis. After using the supplements, his symptoms got worse. I noticed his stool was very runny the first two weeks of use. I contacted a rep at the company and was told to try cutting back on the fish oil. I did. It helped his stool a little, however, his overall health progressively got worse. He has developed red bumps on the inside of his hind legs, and he recently started as his front paw is in pain. The bald spots still remain with no change. Took him to the vet last week and he said he has a staff infection, his arthritis has worsen, and he has warts. Lately, he’s not wanting to eat his food. Our little man has always had a very healthy appetite with a fair amount of energy. We have given these supplements a chance to work and it seems that our dogs overall health since using this product has decreased. Something is not adding up here. I think we should take him off the supplements for about a week or so and see if there is any positive change. Our little guy needs help.

[pugmomsandy]

Check into Missing Link and Nature’s Logic (supplements), and See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mixes and The Honest Kitchen Preference (Premixes that when combined with meat are complete and balanced). Of course adjust your fat amount.

[pugmomsandy]

Yes, I give my dogs table scraps. And it does vary from “good” to “bad”! Because frankly, my dogs eat better than I do. Their pantry is full of 4-5 star foods and my pantry happens to be full of the equivalent of 1 star products, unless I’m making steak and veggies or fish and veggies! They get pizza crust and chinese take-out. They usually get a bite or two of what I’m eating. I also make their homemade raw but of course with appropriate “dog” ingredients (meat/bone/organs/oil/supplements). There is actually a Paleo cookbook for dogs! LOL! Tonight will be a meat & veggie dinner to share.

[DogManDan]

good to hear that they have found out whats causing the problem…. hopefully they will recover soon. About the apple cider vinegar, i’ve been reading all about it online and it seems a good alternative supplements. any brands that you would recommend? I think i read some saying that the best one’s must be fermented and unfiltered. I Don’t think mine loves pumpkin too 🙂 they would just sniff on it and walkaway.

[pugmomsandy]

I ended up mixing foods because I couldn’t decide what food I wanted to use since there’s a million kinds out there! So after 3 years of trying things out, my staples are Nutrisource (grain free and small/med breed puppy), Nature’s Select (local) only the grain free or Hi-Pro formulas, Brothers Complete, Merrick (local), occasionally Nutrisca (some issues with their chicken from China and possible farmed salmon) so I just get their Lamb food, Vital Essentials freeze dried nibblets and I’ve thought about Victor because they are local too (made in Texas). For cans, I use Merrick, Wellness Stews, Weruva, Nature’s Logic, Hound and Gatos and sometimes Nutrisca lamb. Dehydrated foods I use are The Honest Kitchen, Addiction (with Big Dog Natural), Sojo’s (with Big Dog Natural) and I make my own raw food with duck, goat, tripe and organs and supplements and they eat whole raw sardines and sometimes RMB (raw meaty bones) like necks, pork ribs and chicken legs. All foods have their pros and cons and not all dogs do well on certain foods. For me, these work. I am thinking of boycotting Dogswell though. Too many issues with their treats and they use chinese chicken. Actually, I think I’ll scratch them totally off my list now… and Sojo’s uses some dried veggies from China so that’s going to have to go too when my bag is gone. It is frustrating sometimes trying to find good foods with good ingredients. I’ve probably used about 20 different kibbles in the past 3 or 4 years (my dog is 6 now). He’s such an inspiration for me to make homemade!! I lub him so much!! He has his own freezer full of goodies!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

I have several dogs. I have 2 or 3 bags open at once. So technically, they are eating 2 familiar foods when I open a new bag. I used to only have 2 bags at once, but with fosters, they allow me to open 3 bags (I use about 300 cups a month). Even using only 2 foods, you wouldn’t need to transition since one of them will always be something “old” when you add food #2 because I’ve never had 2 bags of food go empty at the same time, there’s always one “old” food in there. I usually make a “mixture” so I can make it how I want – the amount of “old” food and the amount of “new” food. It’s like always being in transition, I guess. When I’m too busy to make a “mixture”, they get a scoop directly out of one bag so that would be just that food, no mix. I also have fosters so they don’t get a food transition at all. I give probiotics/enzymes, ground psyllium for loose stools and they just have to eat what I give them which is 4.5 to 5 star foods. I just don’t want you to be discouraged if there is tummy troubles. A switch can be done, quickly or slowly. And poor quality foods can have sugar and MSG or other addicting ingredient which can make transitioning difficult when they refuse to eat the new food! You can do a mix of our old food with some new food until they can get off of the old food. I can’t seem to give up Ramen noodle with at least 5 sources of MSG in it!! Bad, I know!! My dogs have been eating mixes for at least 2 years so they can eat single foods any time. They actually eat different kibbles, different canned foods, raw food, dehydrated food, anything, no problem. That is (hopefully) what you can achieve by starting to rotate. I even got a 13 yr old foster that was eating Hill’s W/D when I got him and I put him straight to my regular food, supplements and he’s fine. He’s 14 now and still eats 4.5 to 5 star kibbles and wet food (canned, dehyrated). Seniors should get more wet foods BTW. Sometimes I give ground psyllium or chia seed with canned foods to make the stool more formed (solid formed vs soft formed). I have 5 fosters right now who did fine with no transition. BUT some dogs do have trouble with it.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by pugmomsandy.

[dzdubz]

Hi,

I have a beautiful 5 month old German Shepherd puppy, that has consistently had very soft stool/diarrhea since I got her. I was feeding her Orijen large breed puppy formula, and recently switched to Acana LBP, with no noticable change to her stool.

I’ve searched for advice but have not found an answer anywhere. My dog walker thinks her diet is too high protein and that Shepherd’s have sensitive stomachs. On her advice I’ve tried adding white rice and carrots, but neither has shown any effect.

Could you please help me with any suggestions for food or some kind of supplements that I can give her? Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Dave

[Mom2Cavs]

BRT….Sounds like you have a good plan. Mine don’t seem to like the taste of pumpkin lol. I tried ACV years ago with my 2 mixed breeds and Lucy WOULD NOT take it in any way, so I gave up. Haven’t tried it since. I used to have to give my boy mixed breed, Desi, a joint supp. due to both rear luxating patellas. I gave Springtime Joint Health chews and they worked great for him. I like all Springtime supplements. But, Lucy doesn’t like Longevity at all lol. So I just use their chews and their Omega 3-6-9 (when I use an omega supp., that is). I started adding a little of the Beef Frittata in and so far, ok. But I am so worried it’s not gonna go as well as I hope with the Fromm. They really do well with the Pacific Stream, though I think Lucy is not doing as well as the Cavs with it. It could be the fish protein with her. My cat, Princess, does really well with Earthborn, Fromm, Tiki Cat canned food and loves Instinct, Orijen and/or Acana dry. I just bought a bag of Fromm Gamebird for cats and she is loving it! She is fed canned am and pm and the dry is left out for her to graze on.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.

[pugmomsandy]

If you want to incorporate some raw into the diet, then adding 20% of it is ok without worrying about added vitamins and such. If you’re dog eats 2 meals and day then 2.8 meals (or 3) can be a RMB and maybe some organs (heart/gizzard/a little bit of liver). More than that, you’d need to balance the raw meals better. Make them closer to 80% meat/10% bone/10% organs (5 of that liver) and added supplements or give a premade raw. There are some sample recipes in the Raw Food topic. Another option is to make sure he eats a whole chicken (with heart/gizzard/liver), not just the back.

[InkedMarie]

For me, it’s not who likes what. I’ve had lots of dogs, usually three at a time. I’ve never had a dog not like a food except one dog, years ago, who wouldn’t eat a NV medallion. They eat any kibble, canned, raw and dehydrated in their bowl. All meds /supplements go in the food as well and all gets eaten. I personally think some people cause their dogs to be picky but that’s another topic.

Anyway, I have one dog with allergies, another with no teeth and the last can eat anything.

[RescueDaneMom]

Shawna, thank you again for the info! I will give those Bravo meats a try when we run out of Thrive. There’s a really great independent pet store 30 min drive from me that carries THK, Bravo, Primal, and other great brands.

My parents are usually the ones feeding Dozer. I don’t think they’ll go for the raw egg. I don’t know if Dozer would eat raw egg. We’ve given him eggs cooked over easy and he wasn’t overly thrilled. Max, on the other hand, LOVES eggs.

I just bought six cans of Tripett the last time I was at the store. Max loves it. Dozer does too. We gave Dozer some of the green beef tripe with duck and salmon to entice him to eat his food and pills after a rough chemo treatment.

I just started to try different supplements for Max’s arthritis. In addition to his Glucosamine, MSM, Chondroitin, & ASU combo, he is getting an herbal supplement that has boswellia, cat’s claw, tart cherry, and white willow. I was going to try a bromelain/curcumin combo next.

Marie, I didn’t know there was a ‘concierge club.’ I’ve ordered it from Chewy and Petflow. Recently I’ve been getting it from a reseller who also carries the Primal frozen grinds. She emails me when she’s ready to order and I give her my order and I get it the next week. It’s been pretty convenient. Plus her prices are better than the independent pet store where I used to buy it from. No overhead I guess as she sells it out of her house.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Y’all are awesome!!! 🙂

[Beach Dog]

Hello. I live on an island in the Caribbean, and have a 4 year old, 75lb, female mutt. Two days ago she was diagnosed positive for heartworm…and yes, I cried. Luckily, she is in the early stages with no obvious symptoms of coughing, weight loss etc. I sought the advice of different vets and have been presented with 3 options. (1.) Do the 2 day adulticide treatment. (2.) Do a split treatment, where one dosage is injected and then a second and final dosage is given 3weeks after. (3.) Give her heartworm ‘preventative’ medicine over the next year, and assess if that reduces the quantity of adult worms present. While I make my decision, we started her on the “Pet Life Endolav Plus” pills. (She had not been given any heartworm pills prior).The pills were also given to my other dog, which is a 5 month old male mastiff. So my questions are:

1. Which option is the safest, while being most effective (I’ve gotten different responses from different vets).

2. For those living in climates where mosquitoes thrive all year round, what are the best heartworm preventative medicines and also methods? (I’ve noticed comments on this forum that advise against topical bug repellents, but mosquitoes are rampant here.)

3. Is there anything I can do to help prep my dog for treatment? Whether through addition of vitamins or a special diet? She currently doesn’t take any supplements. She was rescued as a puppy, and for the past 3 years has been fed Alpo/Pedigree/Beneful along with occasional cooked meals of rice and meat. I wasn’t aware this was potentially bad until recently, and have luckily found someone on island that distributes Sportsmix, ProPac and Earthborn Holistic Primitive. I went with the propac because it had lower calcium levels, which is seemingly better for the puppy. (Getting foods rated higher than 2 star here is challenging). I’ve started cooking meats and muscles to add to the kibble, and when I have the time on the weekend I cook full meals, including organs. (Still experimenting, as this is still new to me, having only just ditched the supermarket brands a month ago).

Grateful for any advice. She’s honestly the sweetest dog we’ve ever owned, and I badly want her to survive this. I would hate to have rescued her, only to have this as her fate. I also want to ensure that the 5 month old remains healthy.

[Shawna]

Hi Cyndi and RescueDaneMom,

Usually I’m not able to log in to the forums but it let me today so….. 🙂

I REALLY like Dr. Dressler but really don’t like grains in a dog’s food.. I’d much rather see you feeding THK and adding high protein meat or canned toppers. If you want to add extra vitamin E I personally would use red palm oil as it has a form of vitamin E that is been researched to be more cancer fighting than alpha-tocopherol. You can buy the oil or can buy a supplement that utilizes the oil. HOWEVER, I’ve also read that high amounts of vitamin E can be detrimental in certain types of cancer. UGHHH Lymphoma seems to be one that supplemental vitamin E provides benefits for though (those that may read this dealing with other types of cancer need to check for their specific type of cancer) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8272150

There are foods that are known to kill cancer cells as well — garlic, turmeric and the enzyme bromelain from pineapples induce apoptosis and causes rogue cells to commit suicide as an example (because of the sugar content of pineapple, I would give bromelain as a supplement (away from meals) instead of pineapple itself). Turmeric is inexpensive but do use ONLY organic turmeric if you decide to use it as many spices are irradiated damaging the benefits. Turmeric can be added to other powdered supplements and sprinkled right on the food.

Certain foods also are known to cut off the blood supply to cancers and thus starving the cancer to death (this is called antiangiogenosis). Turmeric, garlic, blueberries, apples, certain mushrooms and more can all do this.. The more foods you feed that are antiangiogenic the better the outcome as they are believed to be synergistic and work better together. This is a list of foods that cause antiangiogenosis http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ (some are not appropriate for dogs (like grapes)).

If you are interested at all in more data on antiangiogenosis, human oncologist Dr. William Li has an EXCELLENT Ted TV video on it. The title of the video is “Can we eat to starve cancer.” It can be found here http://www.ted.com/talks/william_li.html

PS — I’m in the group that think “synthetic” vitamins have minimal positive affect on the body. I’d much rather see foods high in nutrients and, if needed, whole food vitamin supplements be used. I don’t think the supplement your vet gave you will hurt, just don’t think it will help as much as those found in food. I would also give an enzyme supplement with each meal.

Dozer is certainly in all our prayers and thoughts for a speedy and full recovery!!!!!!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[Embodz]

My 8 1/2 year old labradoodle Boe was diagnosed with a Hepatic Carcinoma this past summer. It was operable so they removed the tumor and the right lobe of her liver (the left side of the liver was not yet impacted by the tumor). It’s been nearly 4 months since the surgery and she has recovered well, although her energy level is not quite where it was prior to her illness. I have two concerns. First, I am concerned that the food we are now feeding her is not the best option for her. Her vet has prescribed Hills Prescription L/D for hepatic health. Are there better, more wholesome options for her? I am concerned about the quality of ingredients and it doesn’t seem that the prescription food is satisfying her hunger. We feed her the recommended amount based on her ideal weight but she is constantly hungry. She is also experiencing some joint stiffness, probably associated with age but I am afraid to give her joint supplements because I don’t know if they may impact her liver function. Prior to her surgery, she was a very active dog. She would run on average 3 days per week (only 3-4 miles ea.) with us but she is too stiff and sore to really run any distance at this point. Any suggestions would be appreciated

[Whitney]

I want to get my puppy off of Proin. Does anyone know if cornsilk is good? She has spay incontinence.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Aleksandra,

Make sure you don’t make the same mistake I did. I bought this big, beautiful jar of lovely organic coconut oil, only to find out that it’s refined and as a result, basically worthless.

You want extra virgin or unrefined coconut oil.

Here’s some good reading on coconut oil and some other “alternative” supplements from what will be in the November issue of Whole Dog Journal, starting at page three (3): http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/16_11/features/alternative-treatments-updated_20861-1.html?pg=3

[2dogmom]

Scott is great about returning emails too. He explained so much to me, I’m confident I made the right choice in picking Nature’s Logic for my new puppy.

Don’t feed added supplements and watch any other foods you introduce into their diets. It’s that combination along with combining certain minerals that throw off the chemical balance that cause levels to spike or exceed “standards”. I am glad there is no added D3 in NL which as stated above could result in over absorption. I get it.

Thanks everyone.

[RescueDaneMom]

I think any incorporation of raw or fresh foods is a good thing. I’ve just started adding raw to my dog’s diet. I think it’d be easier for you if you stick with the 20% rule. You can add up to 20% (by volume I think) of additional fresh foods without throwing off the balance of nutrients in commercial kibble. That way you don’t have to worry about adding extra supplements and such to make the food complete and balanced. I think it has also been said that you can feed one meal of raw and one meal of kibble and still be ok with vitamins/minerals.

I add the following things to my dog’s food (not all at the same time): lightly cooked eggs (over easy), cottage cheese, kefir, canned sardines in water, and canned pink salmon. I will also add some canned tripe by Tripett.

I also add commercial raw, either Primal or Stella and Chewy’s. Lately I’ve been using the Primal grinds (muscle meat, organs, and bone) which are not complete and balanced. If you used more than 20% of this in a meal than you would need to balance it. You can get Primal from an independent pet store. See primalpetfoods.com for more info. Also a bonus, the bones in the grinds are ground up so small that there is no hazard of choking!

If you are interested in learning more about raw food there are two books that are always recommended: “Real food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Taylor & Becker and “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. They have recipes for raw and cooked foods. I have made one batch of raw using Taylor & Becker’s recipe. I wasn’t too difficult but I had to go to two different stores to get what I needed. It is easier for me right now to use the Primal grinds instead of making my own raw food.

In my opinion, commercial raw food is a good compromise if you don’t want to go full raw. Yes it is still processed, but very minimally and much less than kibble. It is also convenient for those that are busy or simply don’t have or want to take the time to source raw meats and make their own raw food meals from scratch.

These are just my opinions. There are others here that have way more experience than I do such as HoundDogMom, Pattyvaughn, and pugmomsandy. They may have more feedback for you.

[Oceans11]

Your Pugs are adorable! I thank you and appreciate your comments. I made the mistake of going in and reading the comments on supplements – too much information for now! If I feed our puppy Raw Instinct Bites and alternate with an all meat kibble (Fromm perhaps??) and give him a bone every 3 days or so, won’t this be enough for a happy healthy pup? Doesn’t the Raw Instinct and kibble have the right mix of all the nutrients they need?

Also, have you any experience with using Diatamacious Earth as a preventive for ear mites?

[pacer1978]

I’m sorry if these questions were already asked. There are so many posts, that I feel it may just be faster to ask instead of reading through every topic on the forum. I am mostly a kibble type since that is convenient and fast, though I do feed my dogs premium kibble: NV, NP, Earthborn Holistic, and Fromm for instance.

Here are my questions. If I do incorporate raw into their diet, how do I go about doing that? Where do you purchase this from? Is there a butcher you go through? How much does it cost typically? I have stayed away from raw thinking it would be unsanitary and very expensive. Plus, I try not to give my dogs bones since they inhale their food and seem to cough and gag a lot after eating one. My thought is that it gets stuck in their throat. Not to mention, I will come home to a pile of bile with sharp bones in the mix and that freaks me out. I’m afraid the sharp bones will do damage to them. Sometimes I will purchase the NV raw patties and freeze dried food and sprinkle or chop that up into their food, but probably don’t do it often for it to make any difference. I’m sure that their raw food is not the same anyway since it is probably still processed in some way.
I know many of you here believe 100% in the raw diet, but I remember when I first investigated it, I had read articles that didn’t support it. One lady explained how she switched to raw and her dog ended up extremely sick with contamination. Any ideas on that? I feel right now with supplements, treats, and premium kibble I am spending so much on their food as it is. I want the best for my dogs, however. I feel you shouldn’t take them on if you can’t provide for them the best you can. Who knows…maybe the raw is cheaper than what I’m spending right now. On the other hand, I’m the main person that handles the feedings in my house. I doubt on the nights I’m at school my husband will have the patients or agreeableness to feed and deal with raw food. Anyway, just looking for your thoughts on some of these questions. I always thought raw was too difficult to feed since there really isn’t a place for me to purchase this other than my grocery store. For some reason, I figured most people purchased it another way. Thanks for anyone reading!

[RescueDaneMom]

Soprano1-

I am by no means an expert. I would suggest checking out the dogaware website at dogaware.com/health/kidney.html. I haven’t figured out how to post links yet so bear with me.

According to my research on dogaware, dogs with early stage kidney disease only need slight diet modifications. The following text is copied from the website:
“Early Renal Insufficiency: In general, creatinine values up to about 2.0 (177 µmol/L) are indicative of mild, or early stage, kidney disease (or early renal insufficiency, as my vet terms it). In cases like these, it may still help to make dietary modifications to reduce phosphorus if blood phosphorus level is above 4.5, but these reductions do not need to be as drastic as when the values are higher, and it is probably not necessary to do other treatments at this stage, such as sub-q fluids (unless your dog is drinking so much that she is having trouble staying hydrated, such as getting up during the night to drink). Adding calcium to each meal if you are feeding a home made diet (to act as a phosphorus binder) would be advisable, and possibly antacids, particularly if your dog is showing any signs of inappetence or gastric problems. I would also give fish oil supplements (body oil, NOT liver oil), at the rate of 1,000 mg (300 mg combined DHA and EPA) per 10 lbs of body weight, along with Vitamin E (50, 100 or 200 IU for small, medium and large dogs), and discontinue any Vitamin A and D supplements (including cod liver oil) added to commercial foods. Additional recommended supplements include a B-complex vitamin and CoQ10, which may be beneficial for dogs with kidney disease.”

There is a table on the website for commercial foods with phosphorous amounts listed. There is only one blue buffalo food on there and it has too much phosphorous. See dogaware.com/health/kidneynonprescription.html

I looked up your previous food (Purina NF) on the same site. It says that food is for Late Stage Kidney Disease. The protein content is 15.9% on a dry matter basis. There are prescription diets that are better suited to Early Stage Kidney Disease. I don’t know why your vet wouldn’t have put your dog on one of those. I think Patty was right and the food was doing more harm than good in your case.

You report that your dog is doing well on Blue right now and you have a recheck in November. If it were me, I would continue to feed Blue and see what her values are at the recheck. If her creatinine and BUN are slightly elevated, I would consider switching to one of the foods on the list of non-prescription foods. My choice would be the Wellness Complete Health Super5Mix Chicken Recipe and/or Wellness Complete Health Super5Mix Whitefish & Sweet Potato.

I hope this is helpful. Again, I would really recommend checking out the dogaware site. There is so much information available. I would read through it before going to your recheck in November so you can be prepared.

[Dfwgolden]

I have a 16 week old purebred Border Collie puppy out of working stock lines.
He’s an amazing pup in every way, intelligent, lively, loving, and very social.

However….

Ricky has since I got him had very loose stools. We have three other dogs two Golden Retrievers and a Chihuahua (Shh, don’t tell him I called him a dog!)
None of our other three ever had loose stools, Ricky also poops a lot!
Not like 4-5 times like some puppies do but like 8-10 times a day.

His potty training has been an extreme difficulty and is not progressing as it should.
We’ve tried changing foods and adding supplements.
He just has show no signs of improvement.

I am a big fan of the raw diet but am not currently able to feed that with my finances.
He is currently on Diamond Lamb and Rice Large breed puppy.
My other dogs eat Diamond with no problems what so ever, they have a nice shiny coat and have never been in better health.

What do I do about this? I just am all over the board here and don;t understand why he poops SO MUCH and why it is so loose.
He is 100% healthy (had a blood panel done and everything) he is on Revolution for fleas and HW.
He gets feed in the afternoon around 12:00pm and at night around 6:00pm
Then gets a small snack of food before I leave for school around 7:00am of so.

He is very active and shows know underlying issues what so ever. His coat is beautiful! No smelly breath, or itching ect.

I just am baffled.

[RescueDaneMom]

Thank you both for the suggestions. I’ve never thought of using horse supplements. I found that Actiflex makes a K9 formula too. Do you think the Actiflex 4000 is better than the Actiflex K9?

[RescueDaneMom]

I rescued my Dane when he was 2 as well. He was only slightly underweight. He was 140 and now weighs 160 at 7 years old. Max is my first Dane and I followed the advice of The Great Dane Lady at first. I like the supplements that she recommends. I use the “Filling in the Wholes” and Nzymes granular supplements which can be purchased from firstchoicenaturals.com. You can also get probiotics and digestive enzymes from them. My mom’s rottweiler that is undergoing chemo treatment is on the 4 in 1 probiotics.

When I first got Max, I put him on a diet of high quality kibble (one of Great Dane Lady’s suggested) and used The Honest Kitchen as a topper. He loved it. It was also a great improvement over the Diamond food he was being fed. I have to agree that she suggests too many kibbles with grain that have high carbs. I would also agree that the licking and chewing at his butt and hips could be a food intolerance. Chicken is the most widely fed protein so it might be worth it to try a different protein. My Dane loves turkey and duck. Earthborn Holistic has affordable priced grain-free foods.

I wish you the very best of luck with Bauer. Great Danes are awesome, quirky dogs with so much personality. I think you will really fall in love with the breed. Keep us updated on his progress!

[Katie]

Thanks for all the advice y’all. I appreciate all the feedback.

As far as the chewing goes – I have been trying to distract him whenever I catch him chewing his nails or licking/chewing his legs, hips, or butt with chew toys, rawhides, bones. Bauer doesn’t really care for toys – but man on man he absolutely loves bones and antlers. If I am holding it for him, he would chew and chew on them for hours. He gives up faster if he’s having to hold them between his paws on his own. They have really helped clean his teeth a bunch too. His teeth were HORRIBLE when I first got him. I have been trying to brush them, but nothing has worked as well as the antlers have in cleaning those back teeth up. The plaque/tartar build up was disgusting and black when I first got him. It’s so much better now. As far as the bones/antlers go – the redirect seems to work whenever I catch him in the act of licking/chewing to switch out for the bone or antler. But it’s when I am not home during the day and can’t reprimand and redirect – that’s when it’s the worst. I come home and he’s got a new raw spot, or the one he had is now even worse. I try to not let him be home alone for more than 4 hours at a time, but I do believe that some of it is just boredom. I take him on a long walk in the morning to try and wear out some of his energy too. I think I am going to have to diaper him if he doesn’t leave his back legs and butt alone.

As far as his weight issues go, I have another vet appointment on Tuesday so I am going to ask her to do a lab work up on him. It worries me that he hasn’t gained weight. I am definitely going to be switching to a grain free dog food (I know Sor recommended Halo) and I am going to the meat store in a bit to pick up ingredients for Satin balls. I have been giving Bauer fish oil supplements as well as glucosamine/chondroitin pills just bc my goldens always needed it for hip/joint issues and I figure that even though he’s severely underweight and still young right now – hopefully he will eventually gain weight and he won’t always be young – so preventative measures are always best.

Katie

[theBCnut]

Just wanted to let you know that some people use horse joint supplements for their large dogs with great success.

[pugmomsandy]

It depends on the cuts of meat you’re using for the homemade raw and if it’s regular, free range, grass fed, antibiotic free, etc. You probably don’t want the regular chickens that have been injected but rather get some that are less processed, no antibiotics. You can find discount prices when the sell-by dates are coming up. At the health food store, I can get a package of turkey neck with giblets for around $1.49/lb. But duck necks are about $2.69/lb. Ground beef 80/20 is less than $1/lb and containers of heart and gizzard are under $2/lb. I guess it also depends on your area of the country. There is an initial investment of freezer space and a meat/bone grinder but they are well worth it. Or you can use boneless meats and supplement with bone meal or other source of calcium. The recipe book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Karen Becker/Beth Taylor has simple recipes with and without bone. I would say my average (guessing) would be $2.20 a pound and my dog would eat 6 oz per day = 11.25 lbs per month = $24.75 per month PLUS supplements. Kibble would be $15.60 per month for me ($79 for 100 cups). I don’t ever use the $0.39/lb bag of chicken thighs!! But yes, you can get homemade to be real cheap. Let’s say a combo of ground beef 80/20 or 70/30 and chicken heart/gizzard and some supplements would be cheap, in rotation with the Core. I think it would work out. You can also join a local raw feeding group and order in bulk with them. I like to buy tripe which is $2/lb for me. I also feed raw sardines which I bought on sale for $1.19/lb. You can also add up to 20% of unbalanced raw food to his diet without having to worry about extra vit/min supplementation. Maybe give him a chicken wing, a heart and piece of gizzard a couple times a week.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[RescueDaneMom]

That happened to me with the Supplements forum. I went back to it the next day and it was fine. Very bizarre. Must have been a glitch as it has resolved itself.

[abby13]

I have an english bulldog that is 1 1/2 years old. She has spina bifida and is completely incontinent. Sometimes I have to assist her with the number 2s. Changing her diapers gives me the excellent and horrific view of her poops. Sophie has an EXTREMELY sensitive stomach. I am very well versed in dry dog food but am extremely incompetent when it comes to supplements. I have read nearly every thread on here and it seems like information overload! I currently feed Sophie Nutrisca. That is the only kibble that hasn’t made her bowels completely crazy. I work at a pet food store, so I have tried nearly everyone. Anytime I remotely try to switch her, its diarrhea, pure liquid. She gets dehydrated quickly and that scares me! She has done well on the Nutrisca, however I am interested in switching her to a commercial raw diet. Again no matter how slowly I try to transition, its pure diarrhea, liquid and I am changing diapers every 5-15 minutes. Poor baby. So the Nutrisca we have stayed on, however, now even on the Nutrisca her bowels switch from rock solid I have to help her excrete them to pure liquid. I have her own cranberry extract powder, and salmon oil. Occasionally I give her raw eggs. I am looking for a digestive enzyme or SOMETHING to help keep her number 2s more consistent. Pumpkin doesn’t work. Haven’t had much luck with yogurt. Anytime I take her to the vet (who delivered her and wouldn’t put her down when the breeder wanted him to due to the SB and who is an expert on SB and has pooled his resources all over the country for Sophie’s SB) he suggests switching her back to Science Diet which is what he had her on when she was living with him before I adopted her. Yes then her poops where normal, no problems but I absolutely refuse to put her on that and I refuse to go to another vet, not many in my area are spina bifida literate. There has to be a supplement of some kind to help her. I don’t hear a lot of tummy gurgles. Like I said she goes from being constipated to diarrhea by the day. Any suggestions for my poor baby?!

[robertdee]

Interestingly enough, my girlfriend when I just met her (now my fiance), had a Yorkie with luxating petalla. I remember spending hours walking around pet stores, talking to vets and doing research online. A friend of mine has recommended me to look into Pooch & Mutt products (really popular supplements company in UK) as they have started selling directly in the US through http://www.bestdogremedies.com

We were skeptical, but after trying everything else, we have realized that there was nothing to lose. We have ordered some Mobile Bones and Bella has gotten a new lease on life.

[EnzymesForPets]

The amount of enzymes you are giving between food and supplements will not harm your dog. Enzymes are just proteins- if they don’t have anything to act upon, they themselves will just get broken up into amino acids. Even at very high doses, there should not be any “overdose” effects from the enzymes. 🙂

[EnzymesForPets]

You are correct, animal-derived enzymes are generally active in a much narrower pH range, so they will only work in the environment with that pH. Additionally, they can become denatured and not work at all if they are in an environment which varies too much from that pH. Microbial and plant-derived enzymes tend to work under a wider range of conditions. This is why they are usually the preferred choice for digestive supplements. Especially when a supplement includes a range of enzymes, they can be active throughout the pH changes of the digestive tract. The stomach has a very low pH, but the pH in the small intestine is much higher. Many animal-derived enzymes may be active in one or the other, but will not work in both (and may get denatured in the acidity of the stomach, therefore never even being active in the small intestine).

[pugmomsandy]

I’m a proponent of using different supplements (or rather not relying on just one) so I would use it if I had it, but also rotate it with other supplements. I’ve used Dr Harveys Ortho Flex (with devils claw) but also have Actiflex 4000, cetyl-M, and tumeric. I also like plain old green lipped mussel as well. Wysong Arthegic looks good too.

[pugmomsandy]

The Honest Kitchen also has Perfect Form. It contains slippery elm which helps sooth the GI tract.

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

[Mom2Cavs]

weezerweeks, THK Invigor is a whole food supplement. Other good ones, imho, are Longevity from Springtime, Inc. and Dinovite, and Missing Link, along with Nature’s Logic. Springtime has chewables that I love that are whole food based called Fresh Factors. I’ve used them for years, off and on. Oh, and I forgot another favorite of mine, Wholistic Pet Canine Complete. I order my Wholistic Pet supplements from k9power.com. They have quite a few good whole food supplements on the site.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by Mom2Cavs.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[weezerweeks]

HDM is hk invigor a whole food supplement?

[pacer1978]

Can a dog overdose on enzymes? I give my dogs enzymes with each meal since I feed them kibble. I didn’t realize that some dog food already have enzymes in the food such as Nature’s Variety and Nature’s Logic. So, should I still give them enzymes with their meals when I feed them that brand? I switch brands now every few bags as recommended with the understanding that each brand may use specific nutrients, minerals, and vitamins more so than others. So, by switching the brands it ensures my dogs are getting a variety of those things. If I switch between brands, but maintain the same supplements and dosages, could I potentially overdose them on anything?
This is what they get:
Daily: Nordic Naturals Fish Oil for dogs, Swanson’s joint supplement for their hips, coconut oil, enzyme with each meal, and 1 TBS supergreens
Every other Day: Probiotic and Tart Cherry (as part of their superfood). I sometimes will give Mattie a probiotic every day depending on how her ears are…she is kind of “yeasty”.

[pugmomsandy]

One site I looked at said a 10 lb dog should have 300 mg glucosamine daily. So if you go by that, he can have the dosage on the bottle – 2 tabs for the loading period and then 1 tab per day. Cetyl-M has 250 mg glucosamine. It has bromelain in it as well. So taking this on an empty stomach allows the enzyme to work systemically rather than acting to digest food.

http://www.glucosaminefordogshq.com/glucosamine-dosage-for-dogs/

[weezerweeks]

Pugmomsandy I decided to try the cetyl m tablets. I received my bottle today. It says initial period 2 tablets per day 25 lbs. my dog weighs 7lbs. What amount should I start with and what amount to maintain. It also says on empty stomach.anybody can answer

[theBCnut]

I don’t know if HDM will see this, but I think it sounds great. The thing that a lot of them add that is a deal breaker is green tea, since it has caffeine in it. I don’t know specifically about ginko powder for dogs. I’ve never heard anything against it.

ETA: I just googled ginko supplements for dogs and got a study that showed it helped and some supplement info, so I believe it is ok.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by theBCnut.

[RescueDaneMom]

I tried to post this in the supplements forum but it wouldn’t acknowledge that I was logged in.

I was looking through Starwest Botanical’s products on amazon for ingredients to make HDM’s superfood supplement. I came across a “GreenPower Blend” that they make.

Ingredients:Organic Barley Grass Powder, Organic Wheat Grass Powder, Organic Spirulina, Organic Spinach Powder, Organic Alfalfa Leaf Powder, Organic Kelp Powder, Organic Dulse Leaf Powder, Organic Barley Grass Juice Powder, Organic Orange Peel Powder, Organic Beet Root Powder, Organic Dandelion Leaf Powder, Organic Lemon Peel Powder, Organic Ginkgo Leaf Powder & Organic Wheat Grass Juice Powder

Would this be an acceptable whole food/ green supplement to add to a homemade raw or cooked diet? I wasn’t sure about the ginko leaf powder. Thanks!

• This topic was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by RescueDaneMom.

[kimberley]

Mom2Cavs – Okay, the Diatomaceous earth is commonly used in cat litter, as it’s a binding agent. Dinovite also has Montmorillonite Clay (another binding agent) that can be toxic because of dioxins…. the FDA recommends it being tested before use in any animal feed, however it’s not regulated. Main issue with this is that things like oil seeds and grains can absorb this material, then the dioxin is ingested, so care is recommended when feeding something with this supplement in it. It’s frequently used in livestock feed with supplements (with no or little issues noted). The aspergillus products are a type of fungus, commonly used in Asia as sexual supplements (????), as well as for digestion in animals. Hope this answers your question. 🙂