Homemade Cancer Diet: Supplement Question

Dog Food Advisor Forums Homemade Dog Food Homemade Cancer Diet: Supplement Question

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  • #27116 Report Abuse

    My mom has a 7 year old neutered male rottweiler (Dozer) with lymphoma. He has been undergoing chemo treatments and is doing well. He was diagnosed in February and here we are 8 months later. He has been eating The Honest Kitchen Embark and Thrive. I’ve been making homemade food for a topper so he doesn’t get bored on the two formulas. His last chemo treatment was a little rougher than the others and he didn’t want to eat his THK. I found the cancer diet by Dr. Dressler and made that for him. He loved it! We’ve been feeding him that for the past two weeks because he had one treatment that only lasted for a week and then needed another treatment that will least 3 weeks before he needs to go back to the vet. He’s doing much better now so I’m thinking about reintroducing THK to see if he’ll eat it again.

    The vet put him on a multivitamin that they make to make sure he was getting enough iron. My question is: Is the multivitamin from the vet adequate for making the homemade food complete and balanced?

    The Cancer Diet Recipe:
    2.5-3 lbs lean meat, simmered with water on low heat
    1-2 lbs cooked brown rice or oatmeal
    0.5-0.75 lbs veggies cooked and pureed
    0.5-0.67 lbs chopped, cooked liver
    1-1.5 cups cottage cheese
    2 skinless chicken necks, chopped and boiled (I used gizzards because I had them on hand)
    0.75 tsp salt substitute
    4-5 grams oyster shell calcium (I’ve been using calcium acetate at 800-1000mg Ca/lb of meat)
    16,000-18,000mg EFAs (krill or fish oil)*

    *Note: he hasn’t been getting any additional EFAs. My mom gets flustered having to add so many things to his food but I’ve convinced her he needs them. I ordered Carlson’s Salmon Oil Complete from Swanson’s per HDM’s recommendation. How much should he be getting per day? I’ve read differing opinions. He weighs 110lbs. I also just started giving him canned sardines in spring water with no salt added (New Brunswick brand). How many times per week do you think I should give them to him? I mixed in a 3.75oz can with his dinner last night and he loved it!

    I’ve also been adding 1 tsp of flax oil per pound of meat because all Dozer will eat is chicken or turkey. He doesn’t tolerate beef well. He throws up if he eats too much of it.

    He is also getting 2 capsules of Dr. Langer’s probiotics daily because he is getting 2000mg of cephalexin (2-500mg capsules 2x day). He has been on antibiotics for the last two weeks and will be on them until we see the vet again in two more weeks.

    Analysis of the Multivitamin: per 1 soft chew. Dozer gets 2 per day.
    iron (amino acid chelate): 3mg
    copper (copper acetate): 0.1mg
    manganese (manganese sulfate): 0.25mg
    zin (zinc oxide): 1.4mg
    vitamin D3: 150 iu
    vitamin A (as acetate): 1500 iu
    vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol): 15 iu
    vitamin B1 (thiamin mononitrate): 0.24mg
    vitamin B2 (riboflavin): 0.65mg
    pantothenic acid (calcium d-pantothenate): 0.68mg
    niacin (niacinamide): 3.4mg
    vitamin B6 (pyroxidine): 0.24mg
    folic acid: 50mcg
    vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin): 7mcg
    choline (choline chloride):40mg
    biotin: 15mcg
    vitamin C (ascorbic acid): 3mg
    vitamin K1 (phytonadione): 4mcg

    I think I should be giving him more vitamin E right? Anything else I should add supplement wise? He shouldn’t need anything else if I start feeding this with THK again, right?

    Thank you in advance for the feedback. I appreciate it.

    -Caroline

    #27162 Report Abuse

    I know this is a long post with a lot of information, but does anyone have any feedback for me? My vet is pretty useless when it comes to food advice/nutrition.

    #27163 Report Abuse

    Cyndi
    Member

    I posted a link to this thread in the review section for Shawna. She is one of the very knowledgeable people on here that could probably help.

    #27165 Report Abuse

    Thank you very much Cyndi! I really appreciate it. 🙂

    #27166 Report Abuse

    Cyndi
    Member

    No problem at all. I don’t believe Shawna “comes into” the forum section and Hound Dog Mom, one of the other experts, has been really busy with school and doesn’t come online much anymore. There are a couple other people on here that may be able to help, Pattyvaughn being one of them, but maybe one of them will see and help you out. Good luck! 🙂

    #27168 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Cyndi and RescueDaneMom,

    Usually I’m not able to log in to the forums but it let me today so….. 🙂

    I REALLY like Dr. Dressler but really don’t like grains in a dog’s food.. I’d much rather see you feeding THK and adding high protein meat or canned toppers. If you want to add extra vitamin E I personally would use red palm oil as it has a form of vitamin E that is been researched to be more cancer fighting than alpha-tocopherol. You can buy the oil or can buy a supplement that utilizes the oil. HOWEVER, I’ve also read that high amounts of vitamin E can be detrimental in certain types of cancer. UGHHH Lymphoma seems to be one that supplemental vitamin E provides benefits for though (those that may read this dealing with other types of cancer need to check for their specific type of cancer) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8272150

    There are foods that are known to kill cancer cells as well — garlic, turmeric and the enzyme bromelain from pineapples induce apoptosis and causes rogue cells to commit suicide as an example (because of the sugar content of pineapple, I would give bromelain as a supplement (away from meals) instead of pineapple itself). Turmeric is inexpensive but do use ONLY organic turmeric if you decide to use it as many spices are irradiated damaging the benefits. Turmeric can be added to other powdered supplements and sprinkled right on the food.

    Certain foods also are known to cut off the blood supply to cancers and thus starving the cancer to death (this is called antiangiogenosis). Turmeric, garlic, blueberries, apples, certain mushrooms and more can all do this.. The more foods you feed that are antiangiogenic the better the outcome as they are believed to be synergistic and work better together. This is a list of foods that cause antiangiogenosis http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ (some are not appropriate for dogs (like grapes)).

    If you are interested at all in more data on antiangiogenosis, human oncologist Dr. William Li has an EXCELLENT Ted TV video on it. The title of the video is “Can we eat to starve cancer.” It can be found here http://www.ted.com/talks/william_li.html

    PS — I’m in the group that think “synthetic” vitamins have minimal positive affect on the body. I’d much rather see foods high in nutrients and, if needed, whole food vitamin supplements be used. I don’t think the supplement your vet gave you will hurt, just don’t think it will help as much as those found in food. I would also give an enzyme supplement with each meal.

    Dozer is certainly in all our prayers and thoughts for a speedy and full recovery!!!!!!

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by  Shawna.
    #27169 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Oops, meant to add this… I’d also consider adding a few high quality organic “raw” eggs to Dozer’s diet every week. Raw eggs have a precursor to what is referred to as glutathione. Glutathione is the “master antioxidant” of the body and helps the liver remove toxins from the blood. The below linked research article discusses how glutathione helps after the toxicity of chemotherapy. In the research they are discussing glutamine supplementation but raw egg is even better than glutamine (an amino acid found in protein) alone. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1234593/

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by  Shawna.
    #27174 Report Abuse

    WOW! Thank you so much for the detailed response, Shawna! Great information and very helpful!

    -Caroline

    #27175 Report Abuse

    Cyndi
    Member

    Awesome! 😀 Thanks Shawna! Good luck with Dozer, Caroline!

    #27176 Report Abuse

    Thanks Cyndi! We’re going on 9 months and Dozer is still responding very well to the chemo. He is also loving his Honest Kitchen and whatever else I make him! 🙂

    #27177 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    I have no horse in this race but thanks for helping, Shawna!

    Caroline, what Honest Kitchen do you feed?

    #27178 Report Abuse

    Hi Marie-

    For Dozer I rotate between Embark and Thrive. He has had a box of each so far and we just started another box of Thrive. I’ve been hesitant to add Love because he doesn’t tolerate beef well. He’s fine with pieces of meatball but he’ll throw up pieces of steak. He turned his nose up at some homemade food I made with ground beef but I think that could have been because of the tomato I put in it. However, I just ordered a box of Love for my Dane, Max, and I was going to give Dozer a little to see how he does with it. Max used to eat Keen but I’ve switched him to Embark as well and want to rotate with Love. I just found out he has arthritis so I’m keeping him lean and on a grain free diet. So far so good!

    -Caroline

    #27179 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    I currently have Thrive, Zeal and Embark opened here. The only ones I’ve never fed is Verve and Preference. I don’t like Force, too low in protein, IMO. You mentioned arthritis; keep in mind that potatoes can be inflammatory so Max might not do as well on that as it has white potatoes.

    I just filled out a survey by THK on FB about what ingredients we’d like to NOT see in future foods. White potatoes was one I chose.

    #27180 Report Abuse

    Thank you for the input! I’ve tried Preference. Dozer was on that before the Embark and Thrive. I think we went through about 3 boxes before we started trying others.

    I did get a small box of Force for free with my UPCs. I used half the box before I knew Max had arthritis. He loves it but I don’t want to add to his inflammation so I’ve stopped feed it.

    I filled out the THK survey too and said the same thing!! I would love if Max would eat the Thrive because it doesn’t have white potatoes but he doesn’t like that one. It’s weird too because he likes quinoa when I make it in homemade food. I think it may be because it’s not cooked in the Thrive. That’s the only thing I can think of because he likes and has eaten all of the individual components in that food yet he turns his nose up at it.

    #27181 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Hey Caroline,

    Glad the info I posted is helpful :). Another thing you could do if so inclined is to use The Honest Kitchen Preference premix and meats you purchase. Example, Bravo has a bone/calcium free venison as well as a buffalo that could be fed either raw or cooked (since they are bone free) with the premix. Might be a red meat option to the beef he doesn’t seem to do well on.

    If you decide to give the eggs a try, don’t whip or blend or otherwise disturb the egg as doing so breaks down the glutathione precursor (will still be beneficial just not quite as much). Just crack the egg open and put the whole thing on top of his HK (decreasing the amount of HK to compensate for the egg calories of course). You can add the egg shell back in if you wish (calcium source). Some will say not to feed raw egg whites because they bind with the vitamin B called biotin.. It is true that they do BUT if you include the yolk you will be okay as it is HIGH in biotin and will offset what is bound up in the white.

    Green tripe (either canned or raw) is a food that most dogs can’t turn away from — they LOVE it.. It is high in protein and has lots of nutrients (especially the raw) and can make a wonderful topper for the HK Thrive etc. I like the Tripett canned product and raw can be found locally in many cases or online. Most tripe is sourced from beef but dogs with issues with beef muscle meat are usually very tolerant of beef tripe. If not, Tripett also makes a lamb and a venison canned tripe.

    Thank you Cyndi and Marie!!! You guys ROCK!!!!

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by  Shawna.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by  Shawna.
    #27183 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    PS — turmeric and bromelain (bromelain fed away from meals) are also quite handy as anti-inflammatories and will not only help with Dozer’s cancer but are also good for Max’s arthritis.. 🙂

    #27184 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Caroline, I’m too lazy to add meat to the food, thats the only reason I never fed the Preference! Zeal has no white potatoes but it’s costly. I belong to the “concierge club” and you get a discount and free shipping which makes it cheaper than buying online elsewhere and no one within an hours drive carries it.

    #27186 Report Abuse

    Shawna, thank you again for the info! I will give those Bravo meats a try when we run out of Thrive. There’s a really great independent pet store 30 min drive from me that carries THK, Bravo, Primal, and other great brands.

    My parents are usually the ones feeding Dozer. I don’t think they’ll go for the raw egg. I don’t know if Dozer would eat raw egg. We’ve given him eggs cooked over easy and he wasn’t overly thrilled. Max, on the other hand, LOVES eggs.

    I just bought six cans of Tripett the last time I was at the store. Max loves it. Dozer does too. We gave Dozer some of the green beef tripe with duck and salmon to entice him to eat his food and pills after a rough chemo treatment.

    I just started to try different supplements for Max’s arthritis. In addition to his Glucosamine, MSM, Chondroitin, & ASU combo, he is getting an herbal supplement that has boswellia, cat’s claw, tart cherry, and white willow. I was going to try a bromelain/curcumin combo next.

    Marie, I didn’t know there was a ‘concierge club.’ I’ve ordered it from Chewy and Petflow. Recently I’ve been getting it from a reseller who also carries the Primal frozen grinds. She emails me when she’s ready to order and I give her my order and I get it the next week. It’s been pretty convenient. Plus her prices are better than the independent pet store where I used to buy it from. No overhead I guess as she sells it out of her house.

    Thanks again for all the feedback. Y’all are awesome!!! 🙂

    #27189 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    The Consierge club is what replaced their auto ship program. Because Zeal is so expensive and I can’t buy it locally, it’s cheaper to be on their autoship. It’s free shipping if you spend $95 I think, Zeal easily qualifies for that. You get a discount as well and they keep tract of your purchases for their rewards program. I know I can get autoship from Chewy but I don’t think it counts for the rewards. At the cost of THK, a free box is important. Ask your resaler about the THK new rewards. Their old one stops this week.

    #27191 Report Abuse

    Oh! I never did the autoship so that’s why I didn’t know about it. I’ve never been a frequent buyer until recently. I used to use it as a topper for kibble. Now I’m using it as the main food and topping it with raw and other fresh foods. Good to know! I will ask her the next time I pick up food. I think I saw the new envelopes for the rewards the last time I was in but I didn’t ask about it. My thought is if you’re going to buy it anyway you might as well get a free box every now and then. Thanks again!

    #27227 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    I never did autoship either until I started using Zeal for one dog. With the price and my lack of being able to buy it local, it’s smart for me to get it from them. Might take a look at the program.

    #59698 Report Abuse

    Marta W
    Member

    May i ask what is the cheapest you guys buy HKThirve at? i am going to get it for my cancer fighting dog now every month and would love to get it cheaper somehow, i bought 10lbs on amazon for $70 is it comparable to other sources?

    #59701 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    Marta W:
    Earlier today on the review side of DFA under “Best Grain Free Dog Foods” a poster, Michelle, wrote she found the best price at PetFoodDirect.com by signing up for auto delivery.

    #59702 Report Abuse

    Marta W
    Member

    I can get it for a little less than $63 there with autoship,hmm,too bad the other foo i get is more expensive here than on chewys where i get it at the moment

    #59705 Report Abuse

    Bobby dog
    Member

    Oh well, hopefully someone else will stop by with another site to check out!

    #68055 Report Abuse

    Jan C
    Member

    could someone tell me….. do you just mix all the ingredients together after they are cooked?
    When do you add the cottage cheese?

    #68134 Report Abuse

    Hi Jan,

    The detailed recipe and directions are located here: http://dogcancerdiet.com/pdf/DogCancerDiet.pdf

    If the link doesn’t work for you just google the dog cancer diet by dr. dressler and you should be able to find it.

    I hope this helps.

    #86695 Report Abuse

    Diane P
    Member

    PLEASE!!!!!
    DO NOT USE GARLIC OR ONIONS IN HOMEMADE FOOD. THEY ARE POISONOUS TO DOGS AND CATS. I’LL POST A LIST OF INGREDIENTS THAT ARE NOT GOOD FOR DOGS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE – BUT YOU CAN GOOGLE A LIST OF FOOD THAT ARE POISON TO DOGS.

    #86708 Report Abuse

    InkedMarie
    Member

    Diane P: you would need an enormous amount of garlic to harm a dog. Many of us use some form of garlic for fleas/ticks.

    #86714 Report Abuse

    anonymously
    Member
    #90881 Report Abuse

    Ashley T
    Member

    RescueDaneMom, did you ever get an amount to feed your dog while on the cancer diet? My 90 lbs lab was just diagnosed last week and I want to try all options when it comes to treatments and his food intake. Please post if you or anyone on here knows the correct amount to feed him on a daily basis.

    Thank you,
    YellowBrookRoad

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