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  • #140747
    Patricia A
    Participant

    I have a 17 year old chihuahua with heart disease and several tooth extractions. At this point the only thing she will eat enthusiastically is super shredded boiled chicken mashed into some Fromm Pate chicken or lamb flavor. I’ve been through a dozen canned brands and happy she will eat this for the nutrition so far. You can try also Stella and Chewy’s freeze dried. They are easy to break up and then just add a little warm water to make a gravy and hydrate. I know from their f/b site many people with senior or picky dogs are very happy with this brand.
    https://www.facebook.com/stellaandchewys/

    #140664

    In reply to: Purina dog food

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Anon have you ever read articles from the Whole Dog Journal? I don’t believe you have because the site contains a lot of useful up to date articles of all kinds for us pet owners. , if you’re thinking for example they are against vaccinations for example and advocate “”GO HOLISTIC” and no shots you are wrong. I’m just giving an example of what some people think holistic means. It’s also making me annoyed that now they are showing commercials for sedatives for your dogs if they are restless in the car.. Do you agree that now your dog should be drugged for car rides ? Is this science based or profit pharmaceuticall based. Now they’re making the public think we actually NEED to give this to our dogs? Or just maybe instead of giving your dog drugs a more”holistic” approach would be in the best interest of your pet. Maybe this can be an option: https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/training/dogs-riding-safely-and-calmly-in-cars/
    This is one of hundreds of informative articles also . See below’s articles in Whole Dog Journal is doesn’t sound like voodoo science to me.

    Physical Exams for Senior Dogs
    Senior Dog April 17, 2018 0
    There are a number of ways that we can stay on top of health issues that creep up on our dogs with age. Annual veterinary visits are a staple in every healthy pet’s life. A comprehensive physical exam from nose to tail is step one in picking up clues to underlying concerns at every age, but it becomes even more important in the senior years.
    Below is article I was originally referring to with the AAFCO
    :https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/19_10/editorial/Ask-for-AAFCO_21528-1.html

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
    #138989
    Elizabeth D
    Member

    Since I’ve written this, I’ve transitioned to Purina Pro Plan Large Breed puppy for my lab pup and my golden is eating senior Victor and I’ll likely transition him to Bright Minds. I’ve also tried to become more informed on the whole grain free, DCM issue and I do not believe the issue is grains as much as it’s that in the grain frees the peas, legumes, potatoes, etc are blocking taurine. I also don’t know that I’ve seen that Fromms Classic is at issue, but I’ll likely switch out my young lab anyway if anything else, for some variety.

    #138659
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Anon Whole Dog Journal’s article regarding DCM sounds pretty science based to me. There are also articles in Whole Dog Journal regarding the negative effects of yearly vaccinations for our pets . Holistic is not voodoo science anyway. Where some vets will push everything the drug salesman brings to their practice, holistic vets questions the need and the worth of giving certain medications when at times the side effects are worse then the problem . Example flea and tick medicines. Some have devastating effects on the health of our pets and the vets don’t find out till it’s too late. Below is full Whole Dog Journals article .
    DCM in Dogs: Taurine’s Role in the Canine Diet
    What is taurine-deficiency dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM), and how can dog owners prevent it? (Hint: It involves more than just grain-free foods.)

    By Linda P. Case – August 15, 20180

    TAURINE FOR DOGS: OVERVIEW

    Taurine Is Needed For:

    1. Healthy heart function
    2. As a component of bile acids
    3. Retinal function
    4. Reproductive health

    Dietary Risk Factors for Reduced Taurine Status:

    – Low-protein diet (limited taurine precursors)
    – Heat-damaged or poor-quality protein sources
    – High dietary fiber (i.e., rice bran, beet pulp, cellulose)
    – Lamb and rice diets (speculated)
    – Plant-based protein sources (peas, lentils, legumes) (speculated)

    Possible Risk Factors for Taurine-Deficiency DCM:

    BREEDS
    American Cocker Spaniel
    English Setter
    Golden Retriever
    Labrador Retriever
    Newfoundland
    St. Bernard

    SIZE
    Large-breed dogs
    Dogs with slower metabolic rates

    DIET
    Factors that reduce taurine production
    Factors that increase taurine-degrading microbes in the intestine
    Factors that reduce bile acid production

    In mid-July 2018, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) released an alert to veterinarians and pet owners regarding reports of increased incidence of a heart disease called canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM). This disorder is characterized by weakening of the heart muscle, which leads to a decreased ability of the heart to pump, and if untreated, to cardiac failure. The reported cases occurred in breeds that are not considered to be genetically predisposed to this disorder.

    Further, a significant number of the dogs were found to have reduced levels of circulating taurine in their blood and have responded positively to taurine supplementation. It is speculated that these cases are related to the consumption of foods that negatively affect taurine status, leading to taurine-deficiency DCM. Foods containing high levels of peas, lentils, other legume seeds, and/or potatoes were identified by the FDA as potential risk factors. These ingredients are found commonly in foods that are formulated and promoted as “grain-free.”

    As these things go, there followed a lot of hype and a fair bit of hysteria in response. Let us avoid this type of reaction and instead look at the evidence: What do we currently know about the role of diet and taurine in the development of DCM in dogs – and how is it that “grain-free” foods have been recently targeted as a possible dietary cause?

    grain free dog food concerns
    Signs of Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) in Dogs

    DCM is a disease of the heart, which causes the heart muscles themselves to weaken, which, in turn, reduces the ability of the heart to pump blood through the dog’s body as it should. The heart becomes enlarged and flabby, and fluid begins to accumulate in the dog’s lungs. As this condition progresses, it causes congestive heart failure.

    Early signs of DCM may include:

    – Lethargy, decreased energy
    – A persistent cough
    – Difficulty breathing, rapid or excessive breathing, or seeming shortness of breath
    – Episodes of collapse
    – Anorexia (chronic loss of appetite)

    By the time these signs appear, the disease may already be fairly advanced. That’s why it’s important to make an appointment to see your veterinarian right away if your dog displays any of these signs, or more than one of these signs. Often, owners of middle-aged or senior dogs think that their dogs’ symptoms are “just old age,” but a quick diagnosis and treatment can restore an affected dog’s quality of life to nearly normal – and extend the dog’s life far past an untreated dog’s prognosis.

    Treatment usually involves medications that help the dog’s heart to contract, slow his rapid pulse, help control the accumulation of fluid in his lungs, and dilate his blood vessels – all actions that will improve the heart’s performance.

    What is Taurine? Why Do Dogs Need Taurine?

    The nutrient taurine is a unique type of amino acid, called a beta-amino sulfonic acid. It is not incorporated into proteins but rather is found primarily as a free amino acid in body tissues and circulating in the blood. Taurine has many functions, but two that are important for this discussion involve its role in normal heart function and its presence as a component of bile acids, which are needed for fat digestion. Most animals obtain adequate taurine to meet their needs by producing it endogenously (in the body) from two other amino acids, methionine and cysteine.

    This means that while most animals require taurine physiologically, most do not have a dietary requirement for taurine. The exception to this rule is the cat. Cats (but not dogs) always require a source of taurine in their food. If they do not have it, one of the diseases that they can develop (and possibly die from) is – you guessed it – DCM.

    taurine structure
    Taurine-deficiency DCM is well documented in cats. We also know quite a lot about the dietary factors that contribute to this disease in that species. In contrast, dogs (usually) do not require a source of dietary taurine. However, we know that some dogs still develop taurine-deficiency DCM. Why does this happen? The history of DCM in cats can help in untangling what may be occurring in dogs.

    Taurine-Deficiency DCM in Cats

    Looking back, I cannot avoid a sense of déjà vu. In the early 1980s, veterinarians began reporting increased incidences of DCM in pet cats. By 1987, a role for dietary taurine was suspected. In a seminal study, a veterinary researcher at UC Davis reported low plasma (blood) taurine levels in 21 cats with clinical signs of DCM. 1 When the cats were supplemented with taurine, all 21 recovered from the disease. This discovery led to a series of controlled studies that supported the existence of taurine-deficiency DCM in cats who were fed diets that contained sufficient concentrations of taurine.

    What was going on?

    It has to do with bile acids. Another role of taurine in the body is that it is necessary for normal bile acid function. Taurine is linked to bile acids in the liver to form bile salts. During digestion, these compounds are secreted into the small intestine, where they function to aid in fat digestion. Animals are very efficient at conserving the taurine that is secreted into the intestine by reabsorbing the bile salts back into the body further down the intestinal tract. This occurs through a process called “enterohepatic reutilization” and prevents a daily loss of taurine in the feces.

    Herein lies the problem for cats with DCM: If anything happens during digestion that causes the degradation of the bile salt taurine or that inhibits its reabsorption into the body, more is lost in the feces. If this happens consistently, the cat will experience an increase in his or her daily need for dietary taurine. Simply put – if anything causes the cat to poop out more taurine-bile acid complexes (or their degraded by-products), the cat will be in danger of a taurine deficiency if a higher level is not provided in the diet.

    This is exactly what was happening in the cats with taurine-deficiency DCM – and is possibly what we are seeing today in dogs. The difference is that we know what diet factors caused taurine deficiency in cats during the late 1980s. These factors are not yet fully understood for dogs (but we can make a few guesses).

    What We Know About Diet and Taurine Status

    The studies with cats found that several dietary factors influenced taurine status. These were the level and type of dietary protein, the amount and type of dietary fiber, and the degree of heat that was used during food processing. These factors could affect taurine status in three ways:

    1. Bile Acid Binding

    Certain fibers and peptides (small protein chains) in the food can bind with bile salts in the small intestine and make them unavailable for reabsorption into the body. This results in an increased daily loss of taurine in the feces and a subsequent increase in daily taurine requirement to replace that loss.

    2. Increased Microbial Degradation

    Thermal processing of protein (extrusion or canning) can lead to the production of Maillard products – complexes of sugars and amino acids that are poorly digested in the small intestine. The undigested complexes travel to the large intestine and provide an intestinal environment that favors increased numbers of taurine-degrading bacteria. An increase in these bacterial populations reduces the proportion of taurine that is available for reabsorption and reuse by the body.

    3. Reduced Taurine Availability

    Taurine is found naturally in animal-based proteins but is not found in plant-based protein sources. Therefore, providing diets that include a sufficient level of high-quality animal proteins (that are not heat damaged) should ensure adequate taurine intake.

    However, protein that is of low quality or that has been excessively heat-treated will be poorly digested, reducing the availability of taurine and of its precursor amino acids, cysteine and methionine.

    In the early 1990s, in response to this new information regarding the interaction of dietary factors and taurine status in cats (and their relationship to DCM in cats), the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) increased the recommendations for dietary taurine in extruded and canned cat foods.

    Taurine Deficiency in Dogs

    Unlike the cat, dogs who are fed diets containing adequate levels of protein should be capable of synthesizing enough taurine from cysteine and methionine to meet their needs. Therefore, a requirement for dietary taurine has not been generally recognized in dogs.

    However, there is evidence – evidence that we have had for at least 15 years – that certain breeds of dogs, and possibly particular lines within breeds, exhibit a high prevalence of taurine-deficiency DCM. Genetically predisposed breeds include the American Cocker Spaniel, Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, Saint Bernard, Newfoundland, and English Setter.  Although the exact underlying cause is not known, it appears that some breeds have either a naturally occurring higher requirement for taurine or a metabolic abnormality that affects their taurine synthesis or utilization.

    A second factor that affects taurine status in dogs is size. There is evidence that a large adult size and a relatively slow metabolic rate influences the rate of taurine production in the body and may subsequently lead to a dietary taurine requirement. It is theorized that increased body size in dogs is associated with an enhanced risk for developing taurine deficiency and that this risk may be exacerbated by a breed-specific genetic predisposition.

    There is additional evidence that large and giant breed dogs have lower rates of taurine production compared with small dogs. Ultimately, studies suggest that certain dogs possess a genetic predisposition to taurine depletion and increased susceptibility to taurine-deficiency DCM and that this susceptibility may be related to the combined factors of breed, size, and metabolic rate.

    Taurine in Dog Food Diets

    The recent spate of cases and media attention to taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs suggests that this is a very new problem in dogs. However, it is not new. A connection between diet and DCM in dogs was first described in a paper published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association in 2001. What is new is the sudden focus on certain pet food ingredients and the target that appears to have been placed upon the backs of all “grain-free” pet food brands by some bloggers and veterinarians.

    Not to put too fine a point on this, but the 12 cases of taurine-deficiency DCM described in the 2001 paper were collected between 1997 and 2001, years before grain-free dog foods had arrived on the pet food scene. Rather than disparage one class or type of dog food (or pet food company), it is more important to look at specific dietary factors that may be involved in DCM in dogs.

    Generally speaking, these are expected to be the same as those identified for cats, including low protein levels, poorly processed or heat-damaged proteins (leading to Maillard products), and the inclusion of a high proportion of plant-based protein sources such as peas and legumes.

    Over the past 15 years, reduced taurine status in dogs has been associated with feeding lamb meal and rice diets, soybean-based diets, rice bran, beet pulp, and high fiber diets. As with cats, there appear to be multiple dietary (and genetic) factors involved.

    For example, it was theorized that the perceived (not proven) association between lamb meal and taurine status was due to low levels of available amino acids present in the lamb meal, or to excessive heat damage of the protein, or to the confounding factor of the inclusion of rice bran in many lamb meal-containing foods. To date, none of these factors have been conclusively proven or disproven. However, the most recent study showed that three types of fiber source – rice bran, cellulose, and beet pulp – all caused reduced plasma taurine levels in dogs when included in a marginally low protein diet, with beet pulp causing the most pronounced decrease.

    Complicated? You bet. This is why it is important to avoid making unsupported claims about certain foods and brands. Taurine-deficiency DCM has been around for a while in dogs and continues to need study before making definitive conclusions about one or more specific dietary causes.

    Current Considerations of Taurine in Dog Food

    We know that any dietary factor that reduces the availability of taurine precursors, binds taurine bile salts in the intestine, or causes an increase in the bacteria populations that degrade taurine, can reduce a dog’s ability to synthesize taurine or will increase taurine degradation and/or loss in the feces. These changes could ultimately compromise a dog’s taurine status (especially if the dog was genetically predisposed) and affect heart health. In extreme cases, as we are seeing, this can lead to taurine-deficiency DCM (see “A Few Things to Know About Taurine” above).

    The FDA report identified foods that contain high amounts of peas, lentils, legume seeds, or potatoes to be of potential concern. The FDA also stated that the underlying cause of DCM in the reported cases is not known and that at this time, the diet-DCM relationship is only correlative (not causative). However, this has not stopped various bloggers and even some veterinarians from targeting small pet food companies and/or grain-free brands of food, and implying that these foods, and these foods alone, are causing taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs. Their reasoning is that peas and legumes are present in high amounts in foods that are formulated and marketed as grain-free.

    However, the truth is that many companies and brands of food include these ingredients. More importantly, there is no clear evidence showing that a particular dog food type, brand, or even ingredient is solely responsible for taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs.

    Rather, it is more reasonable and responsible to speculate that one or more of these ingredients, their interactions, or the effects of ingredient quality, heat treatment, and food processing may play a role. Furthermore, the underlying cause could be the protein, starch, or fiber fractions of these ingredients. As plant-source proteins, peas, lentils, and legumes include varying amounts of starch (both digestible and resistant forms) and dietary fiber. These protein sources are also generally less nutritionally complete and less digestible than are high quality animal source proteins – additional factors that could influence a dog’s ability to both produce and use taurine. Potatoes, in contrast, provide a digestible source of starch in an extruded food but also contain varying levels of resistant starch, which is not digested and behaves much like dietary fiber in the intestinal tract.

    Conclusions on Grain-Free Food and DCM

    Because any or all of these dietary factors could be risk factors for taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs, and because peas, legumes, and other ingredients identified by the FDA report have not yet been fully studied, the heart of the matter is that no conclusions can yet be made about the underlying dietary cause or causes of taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs.

    But given what we do know, we recommend feeding a diet that contains sufficient levels of high-quality, animal-source protein, does not include plant-source proteins as primary protein sources, and does not contain high levels of dietary fiber.

    If you are worried about your dog’s taurine status or heart health, whether due to his diet history or physical signs that are of concern, see your veterinarian for a complete physical examination and, if needed, to measure plasma levels of taurine. 

    Cited Studies

    1. Pion PD, Kittleson MD, Rogers QR, et al. “Myocardial failure in cats associated with low plasma taurine: A reversible cardiomyopathy.” Science 1987; 237:764-768.

    2. Earl KE, Smith PM. “The effect of dietary taurine content on the plasma taurine concentration of the cat.” British Journal of Nutrition 1991; 66:227-235.

    3. Hickman MA, Morris JG, Rogers QR. “Effect of processing on the fate of dietary taurine in cats.” Journal of Nutrition 1990; 120:995-1000.

    4. Hickman HA, Morris JG, Rogers QR. “Intestinal taurine and the enterohepatic circulation of taurocholic acid in the cat.” Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology 1992; 315:45-54.

    5. Freeman LM, Rush JE, Brown DJ, et al. “Relationship between circulating and dietary taurine concentrations in dogs with dilated cardiomyopathy.” Veterinary Therapeutics 2001; 370-378.

    6. Backus RC, Ko KS, Fascetti AJ. “Low plasma taurine concentration in Newfoundland dogs is associated with low plasma methionine and cysteine concentrations and low taurine synthesis.” Journal of Nutrition 2006; 136:2525-2533.

    7. Ko KS, Backus RC, Berg JR, et al. “Differences in taurine synthesis rate among dogs relate to differences in their maintenance energy requirement.” Journal of Nutrition 2007; 137:1171-1175.

    8. Fascetti AJ, Reed JR, Roger QR, et al. “Taurine deficiency in dogs with dilated cardiomyopathy: 12 cases (1997 – 2001).” Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 2001; 223:1137-1141.

    9. Delaney SJ, Kass PH, Rogers QR, Fascetti AJ. “Plasma and whole blood taurine in normal dogs of varying size fed commercially prepared food.” Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition 2003; 87:235-244.

    10. Torres CL, Backus RC, Fascetti AJ, et al. “Taurine status in normal dogs fed a commercial diet associated with taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy.” Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition 2003; 87:359-372.

    11. Ko KS, Fascetti AJ. “Dietary beet pulp decreases taurine status in dogs fed low protein diet.” Journal of Animal Science and Technology 2016; 58:29-39.

    Linda P. Case is the owner of AutumnGold Consulting & Dog Training Center in Mahomet, Illinois. Linda is the author of Dog Food Logic, has a new book, Dog Smart, and writes The Science Dog blog.

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    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.
    #136376

    In reply to: Grain Free (Topic 3)

    anonymous
    Member

    We have been pleased with Fromm and our vet approves. Here are some formulas you may like:

    https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-reduced-activity-senior-gold-food-for-dogs (368 calories per cup)

    https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-classic-mature-adult-dog-food (360 calories per cup)

    https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-weight-management-gold-food-for-dogs (334 calories per cup)

    I like the Blue Homestyle Chicken as a canned food/topper. It’s reasonable and I can find it at the local market.

    #136372

    In reply to: Grain Free (Topic 3)

    Goldens4ever
    Member

    PS, I’m trying to pick a food that is under 400 kcal/cup as he could already lose 3-5 pounds and now we’ve been told no walks other than potty breaks until further notice. But they don’t have a healthy weight senior one.

    #136365

    In reply to: Grain Free (Topic 3)

    Goldens4ever
    Member

    I’m really anxious for answers to this. My Golden was just diagnosed with DCM and has eaten grain free Blue Buffalo Wilderness all his life. I have changed his food to a non-grain free food, but now I’m not sure what I picked is good enough. It’s paralyzing when you feel like you’ve already given your beloved dog a death sentence and you’re conditioned to think corn is “bad”.

    And to anyone who thinks their dog is fine on grain free, mine was fine until he wasn’t. He passed a senior physical to have his teeth cleaned in October and this week he was diagnosed with advanced DCM. I know it didn’t happen that fast, but unless they develop a heart murmur or start gagging like mine did or faint, you’re probably not going to know it’s happening until it’s too late or nearly so. They seem fine until they aren’t with this. It’s why heart disease is considered a silent killer.

    #135147

    In reply to: Grain Free (Topic 3)

    haleycookie
    Member

    Because there is no definitive proof grain free is the main and only cause at this point.
    The reason to avoid carbs (grains and potatoes, peas, etc) is because dogs are facilitative carnivores. Meaning they can eat a small amount of carb but it’s not really necessary. So meat based diets are the most healthy. Meat based foods will be rated higher on this site for that reason.
    I would consider 20lbs+ over small breed requirements.
    Some Boston’s are quite small and would fall into that category. I’m sure at the end of the day if you feed a proper diet “smallbreed” or not won’t matter much. Just feed the correct amount of calories for your dogs ideal weight and you’ll be fine. “Senior”, “small breed” , “healthy weight”, etc are gimmick words for the most part to charge high prices for a “special” food when in reality senior foods have such a small amount of glucosamine it’s not even close enough to be effective, small breed foods typically are just smaller kibble, and weight loss foods are foods where meat is taken out and replaced with a carb, not the best idea for a carnivore looking to loose weight lol.

    #134865
    anonymous
    Member

    “She isn’t a senior, she’s only four”

    That is even more concerning. I am sorry but you just don’t get it. Blood in the stool is not normal.

    GO TO THE VET. What did her last annual exam reveal?

    Peace out

    PS: An 8 pound dog is not a wolf, they are delicate animals, please discuss with your vet, prescription food may be the way to go at least till she is stable.

    “There are many people that have been doing it for decades and their dogs have never been healthier”
    BS Where is the research? You are talking ragtime.

    #134863
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    She isn’t a senior, she’s only four. If the bone was the problem she would be having problems not just when I give her something new. I doubt it is that, when she does just fine when she’s eating her usual food. I’m sorry you had a bad experience, but there are numerous things that could’ve gone wrong. Just because one person has a hard time does not mean the diet in itself is bad. There are many people that have been doing it for decades and their dogs have never been healthier.

    #134857
    anonymous
    Member

    “dehydrated bones”

    That is bone, it can calcify in the gut and turn into a cement like substance and cause a blockage, GI upset at the least.

    Obviously you have been listening to the homeopathic crowd. Your info about raw food is wrong.
    ” Dogs aren’t built like us and are designed to be able to handle it. As long as your dog is healthy and doesn’t have any underlying problems they should be just fine.”

    Good luck with that.

    BTW: Your dog is a senior, has she had labs done recently? My advice still stands. Take her to the vet. I would have an x-ray/ultrasound done to rule out.

    If you think I am blowing smoke, I am not. I have experience and knowledge in these matters. Find out the hard way, I did.

    Please provide an update after your dog sees a real vet (not the internet).

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Kimberly A Yes my bad I miswrote. MEANT to write that not all ENLARGED HEARTS are caused by DCM. So just wanted others to know that if you have a senior small breed dog enlarged hearts are normally caused by a predisposition for some to have DMVD which can eventually in older years lead to the enlarged heart with symptoms associated with.
    Thank you for posting and your concern Kimberly. Hannah is doing well now with cough suppressant for her cough(trachea collapse also). She’ll be getting ultrasound next weeks also.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi Jamie,
    My boy suffers with IBD, I feed kibbles that have Potato & Sweet Potato works best for him, as soon as he eats Hills, Purina or Royal Canine we end up at the vets needing a course of Metronidazole, he doesn’t do well on grains..
    Your best off doing an elimination diet to work out if she has food sensitivities??…
    Get a kibble that has just 1 meat protein & 1-2 carbs like “Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato” kibble then once your dog is stable & doing really well start adding 1 new ingredient over a 4-6 week period & see do the poos get sloppy & keep a diary.. Does she mouth lick & swallow, gulp (Acid Reflux) when she vomits is it yellow??
    I’m wondering does she have the Helicobacter?? It’s a bad bacteria that lives in the stomach walls, does she act like she is starving all the time?? this is 1 of the symptoms you have when you suffer with Helicobacter + vomiting & acid reflux this is what Patch suffers with, Best to do Endoscope + Biopsies if it vomiting continues..
    or ask vet can prescribe the Triple Therapy meds to kill the Helicobacter, meds are – Metronidazole, Amoxicillin & Omeprazole taken for 21 days given every 12 hours with a meal the 20mg x Omeprazole is just given of a morning once a day…

    When Patch was eating a kibble that was Lamb or Fish he was vomiting, so I don’t know were these kibbles higher in contaminates, heavy metals & toxins?? cause since he’s been eating Wellness, Canidae the vomiting has all stopped now he does take an Acid blocker called “Pantoprazole” 20mg of a morning now Vets normally prescribe 20mg- Omeprazole.. when they have acid reflux – gulping, mouth licking, swallowing, grinding teeth, vomiting early hours of the morning yellow acid vomits..
    also are you feeding 4 smaller meals a day, don’t feed 2 large meals a day, its too much work on the pancreas & stomach.
    I feed at 7am-1 cup, 12pm-1/3 a cup, 5pm-1cup & 7.30pm-1/4 a cup some lunch days Patch doesn’t eat kibble he eats cooked meal boiled sweet potato, no rice as rice ferments in the gut or freeze dried “Frontier Pets” has human grade ingredients.

    These foods Patch does really well on

    Wellness Core Large Breed Adult Chicken & Turkey
    Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato
    Wellness Complete Health Grain Free Chicken
    Canidae Pure Wild Boar
    Canidae Pure Meadow Senior Chicken & Turkey
    Nutragold Turkey & Sweet Potato

    I rotate his Grain Free kibbles as soon as the kibble bag is running out, I buy another brand that has Sweet Potato or Potato lean white meats are best to stay away from fish as main protein as fish is higher in toxins & contaminates.
    Then I rotate old kibble & mix in the new brand kibble over 1 week, then do the same as the new kibble starts ending make sure you have enough kibble for 10days to introduce a kibble she was doing well on or another brand you want to try.. best to have at least 3 different brands you know she does OK on..
    My boy starts to react if he eats the same dry kibble month after month also rotating foods strengthen their gut & immune system, you should start her on a good probiotic so her gut gets healthy… Wellness & Canidae have the Probiotics sprayed on the kibbles to strengthen gut.

    A really good product called “Adored Breast Healthy Gut”
    If you want to try something natural Adored Beast is getting great reviews from people who have a dogs suffering with IBD & IBD..
    Have a look at “Adored Beast Gut Soothe” & “Adored Beast Love Bugs”

    “Adored Breast Healthy Gut”
    https://www.adoredbeast.com/collections/all

    Julie Anne Lee – “Adored Beast Love Bugs” – Probiotics & Prebiotics
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBJf7htldh8

    Have you joined the “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disorder IBD” on facebook
    it’s a really good group when you need help…
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/11164787803/

    Also after she vomits or 20mins before she eats have you tried Slippery Elm powder made into a Slurry it soothes the esophagus, stomach & bowel..

    I use the Slippery Elm Powder made into a slurry, go to health food store buy slippery elm powder not the capsules. Health food store sell the Slippery Elm powder..
    add 1/2 a teaspoon into a cup, boil the jug & slowly add the boiling water & stir quickly till you get a thin paste/slurry you pull up into a syringe 4ml & give 20mins before a meal.. I cover the cup with foil put in fridge & take out when needed again, it turns into a jelly then boil the jug & slowly add boiling water & stir till you have a slurry again & use then I throw out & make a new batch the next day..
    Slippery Elm powder soothe the esophagus, stomach & bowel, good for nausea, acid reflux, rumbling grumbling gasses going thru the bowel – loud noises.. also helps firm poos..

    #133707
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi Patrica,
    Wellness is a really good brand, I feed the Wellness Core Large Breed Adult cause it has lower fat & lower Kcals then the Wellness Core Small Breed…
    I also Feed Wellness Complete Health Grain Free, Canidae Pure Wild, Canidae Pure Meadow Senior is really good aswell… also Wellness has been around nilly 100yrs so they’d know what they’re doing.

    These brands are the only brands Patch doesn’t react too with his IBD when he stays on these brands longer then 3 months, maybe they use better quality ingredients + he’s eating the proper ingredients listed on ingredient list, when I feed other brands he starts to react after 2months?? 🙁
    If you scroll down you can click on “Contact Us” you can talk with Dog Food Advisor – Mike Sagman
    address your post to him & ask him why was the Stella & Chewy freeze dry Review changed??
    it mighten have anything to do with DCM??

    Tamara B
    Member

    As a Dog Trainer . . . I recommend my clients ALWAYS closely check the ingredients and manufacturer information on ALL dog products because they are NOT regulated by the FDA like human products–this having been said . . . the ingredients listed on Diamond Natural Senior dog food and Kirkland Mature dog food are very similar but not exactly the same and listed in a different order, which everyone knows what the order of ingredients means on all products.
    Therefore–I DID “check for myself” and need more information!
    I cannot get a straight answer on the above comparison and a couple of other questions I have when comparing both dog foods. . . .
    Most pet owners that go to the trouble of participating in these type forums read labels but are asking for more detailed information . . .
    People should ALWAYS read ingredients and manufacturing information on ALL dog products because they are not regulated by the FDA! . . . everyone should closely monitor ALL things they give their pets due to this fact!!

    anonymous
    Member
    Tamara B
    Member

    I need to know if Diamond Naturals Senior Dog Kibble has the same exact ingredients/ contents as Costco’s Kirkland Mature Dog Kibble? I cannot seem to get a straight precise answer ?? Please advise because I have a Senior Husky that has Epilepsy and very sensitive and wondered since I now belong to COSTCO can I substitute the COSTCO Mature for the Diamond Naturals Senior food? There cannot be ANY difference in ingredients to substitute his Diamond Natiural for the COSTCO brand!! I hope you can finally give me a precise answer if they are EXACTLY the same food/ingredients/content!!

    #133668
    Beth C
    Member

    Any new ideas? I have an senior 8 pound dog who had all his teeth removed. I’m trying cooked ground turkey which I then grate mixed with The Honest Kitchen fruit and vegetables based mix. I also grate the THK base mix so there will be no chunks. He doesn’t really like the base mix that much but eats some blended with the turkey. He is not getting enough base mix yet. I haven’t tried the FreshPet refrigerated food that someone mentioned above. I think I might give that a try. The canned dog foods all seem to be the wrong texture for my toothless doggy. He spends so much time trying to eat without his teeth. It is a very slow and hard process for him., no matter what I try. But canned dog foods seem to have no appeal and their textures all seem difficult for him and he just walks away from them.

    #133558
    Patricia A
    Participant

    I have a senior also. She will be 17 in June. At this point she won’t eat anything but my cooked food. She will eat only dark meat boiled chicken. I throw in low salt green beans and canned carrot pieces. I buy lean cuts of london broil and shred into tiny pieces. I bought a bag of Purina Pro Plan . It has very tiny kibble and I tried to push the meat in it to get the taste but she just picked around and only ate the meat. So I gave up on any kibble. When we have salmon I broil for her and she loves that also. I give low salt natural peanut butter. Oatmeal mixed in with shredded mini wheats(found this on tufts heart diet treats since she has mitral valve disease-low in salt). She used to get a hard boiled egg in morning or even scrambled but she puts her nose up at that now also. Please try Bixbi Rawbbles. They are very tiny crunchy pieces of freeze dried. I get chicken/salmon and I am happy that she at least eats a few of those for proper nutrition. It must have a good taste to her because she won’t touch any other freeze dried. So maybe you can get a small bag and give that a try. Not sold at petco only pet supply stores. My stores always takes back if they won’t eat. The very least they’ll give you a credit. Hope this helps. I know how hard it is when they get picky as seniors. I sleep better when I feel she eats good that day.

    #133487
    Lilli S
    Member

    Hello everyone! I am new to this website, but I see so much good information here so I was hoping you could help me!

    I have scoured the internet (with all different search terms) to try and figure out how much I should be feeding my pup (my “Pup” who’s 12!)? We rescued him last year, and he was an owner surrender (she had to move and they wouldn’t allow pets – breaks my heart because he was 11 at the time, and he was definitely treated very well).
    I’m sorry I digressed!! He has never liked his kibble – and I have tried EVERYTHING. The vet isn’t concerned about his weight – and as long as he’s doing well, she wasn’t concerned about the kibble.

    I decided to cook for him and so far, he loves everything! But I dont know if I’m giving him the proper amounts of food (trust me, I searched and searched). Right now his proteins are chicken, ground lean beef (or a little steak if we have it for dinner), brown rice, mashed sweet potatoes, mashed up fresh carrots, some spinach. I’m sure you all have experience with other food that you can suggest. AND what I really want to know about are these supplements I see that are pretty much whole foods and you just add a protein.

    This is all so confusing for me. I was at the point where I was going to buy kibble and grind it up to sprinkle on his food, but then I saw these products (ie. The Honest Kitchen dehydrated food). I’m sorry I’m all over the place, but any of you can decipher my book, I’d be so appreciative!

    Just a note – He’s a maltese, 12 years old – very spunky! He just can’t go for long (or even semi short) walks etc. because he has disc issues in his back, and needs to be on rimadyl or he can’t go up the stairs 🙁 .

    Thank you so much! Looking forward to any and all suggestions!

    Patricia A
    Participant

    I think the regulars on this board know I have the three Chihuahuas’. My Hannah Belle has been coughing for a few months now. She will be 17 in June. Initially diagnosis was collapsing trachea and she was given cough meds. It was impossible to get the drops in her. Hiding little drops in appealing food to her did not work. Would not eat it. At one point her cough got so much better. Just a little before sleep. Vet said on our second visit that she did have a heart murmur caused from the mitral valve and how that’s contributing to the cough. He said X-ray with ultrasound was necessary to give meds. He suggested not to put her through all this. Her cough got worse and I took her back today. We started with an X-ray which did show enlarged heart contributed not from diet but age. I asked for pill form of cough suppressant since he said the coughing is causing the heart to work harder. He said good news is she does not have any fluid on lungs. So he said ultrasound will be very beneficial in determining what heart meds she needs.I will do anything to make her more comfortable and just maybe my Hannah will have more time with us in comfort. She eats well. At this point only fresh food. Loves her steak, salmon, chicken etc. She still is alert and will even walk around backyard recently now that it’s sunnier and on a warmer day. I feel she still has quality of life left.
    Now this is the problem. My vet has a traveling ultrasound guy. He said he’s a pain because he wants all dogs there by 7am but might not show up till 11. I asked if he can call me when he gets there and take other dogs and i’ll be there in less then 10minutes since I live close . He said no because he might only have one other dog that day and will not wait. I said i’d be willing to sit with Hannah even two hours in office if I can have approximate time he’ll be there. But since he goes from vet office to vet office they can’t tell me when he’ll pop in. So I might be waiting for hours. I just HATE letting Hannah at her age sitting in a cage for hours. I am torn now whether to get the ultrasound. I’m so scared her heart won’t take the stress from this. Does anyone have experience with enlarged heart in senior dogs and if they make symptoms better? Please I need encouragement.

    • This topic was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Patricia A.
    #132674
    anonymous
    Member

    My dogs are doing well on Fromm Classic Adult. Most vets(in my experience) approve of Fromm.
    This formula has 5.5% fiber https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-reduced-activity-senior-gold-food-for-dogs

    Some of the grain-free formulas have more fiber but until the FDA finds out if there is a correlation with cardiac problems/DCM I would avoid grain-free.
    Unless your vet recommends and feels that the benefit outweighs the risk for your dog.

    #132664
    Christie B
    Member

    I’m pretty good with making sure that my dogs see the vet annually for general checks and to make sure their up to date with necessary vaccinations. I was due to go back towards the end of 2018, but it completely slipped my mind.

    My 9.5 year old American Bulldog mix has 1 front bowed leg. He’s always had it and he walks and runs fine (he looks gimpy when walking, but it’s how he’s always been and it causes no discomfort). He’s also had issues with food and the environment around him, although we’ve never been able to pinpoint his exact sensitivities. I’m sure you can go back and see my many posts and responses related to his “excessive drooling” and allergies posts.

    So I noticed the other day when he was laying on his side (with the bowed leg up) that there appeared to be a large lump behind the leg. I never noticed it or just attributed it to the structure of his frame with the odd leg. So I went back to some old pictures I had, and I didn’t see the lump.

    Concerned, I contacted the vet’s office on Saturday to make an appointment to look at the leg, as well as have his annual exam. The receptionist asked what doctor I deal with there. I told her the name of the practice’s owner (Dr. B), who also was the one who I discussed his allergies with (which was something I wanted to ask him about while I was there since the drooling episodes persist at irregular intervals). The earliest appointment was Monday 5:30. I rushed out of work that afternoon, let my dogs out, put the one in the car (I left the other home alone for like the 2nd time ever in the 4 years that I’ve had her)

    When I arrived at the vet, I could see other dogs in the lobby. My big guy is loud and disruptive when he sees other dogs that he wants to meet. So I called and told them I was outside to call me when the room was ready. Nearly 30 minutes pass (we walked laps around the building) before we’re ushered into the hottest room ever. The vet tech asks me why we’re here. I explain about the lump and that I want to have his annual exam, etc.

    So then we wait even longer and my poor dog, recognizing where he is is now panting and barking and crying. So the door opens and this women walks in. Never met her before, but she certainly wasn’t the vet I booked the appointment with. One of her arms wasn’t through the armhole of her cardigan and instead stuck out of the bottom. So something was up with her. She introduced herself, asked what I was here for.

    Now, I understand my dog can be intimidating at first glance. He’s 119 pounds and has a giant pit head. But I never interacted with a vet who wouldn’t approach my dog. Even after telling her he’s 1000% friendly (and mind you I was holding him next to me), she made sure to keep the metal exam table between her and us.

    So a vet tech comes in to ‘hold the dog’. The doctor looks at the lump and tells me, without touching it, that it’s a lipoma. I say “are you sure”, then she hesitantly approaches and feels the lump for about 10 seconds and says yes. Then says it’s obviously hampering his movements. I tell her he’s always had the bowed leg and cued up a video on my phone from him running, jumping and playing with my other dog the day before. So she then says it’s not hampering him, but it should be removed. And unfortunately it’s so big that they probably shouldn’t do the surgery and should have a specialist come in to do it. Then she did said that he’s young enough to warrant doing it (like I was automatically going to say no because of the expense). I she knew me like the other vet did, then she would know the well being of my dog is my priority. I ask her to get me an estimate.

    I then ask if we can do a needle aspiration to make sure it’s not cancer. Why would I put my dog through a surgery, only to find out it may be cancerous and then make him go through treatments? If it’s cancer, he might still have to have surgery, but maybe they could try other methods to shrink it or kill it first. She says we can “for peace of mind”. And then tells me 30 seconds later that needle aspirations on lumps are highly inaccurate. The sample they take might not have cancer, but it can still be there.

    Peace of mind, indeed.

    Then she tries to dissuade me from the procedure by saying it will be expensive (but specialized surgery isn’t?)

    I tell her to go ahead and do it.

    While they try to formulate the price, she sells me on their “wellness package” which includes standard blood labs, urine and stool labs and heartworm test. Other than her 10 seconds spent feeling the lump and listening to his heart with a stethoscope, she didn’t touch my dog. The vet tech felt my dog’s body for lumps. Found a hard one in his chest. Doctor edges closes and feels for 1 second…”not concerned”. I tell them he has a lot of little lumps on his belly along with a bunch of skin tags of various size and color. She wasn’t interested in seeing them.

    I’ve had wellness exams every year. The vet normally checks my dog’s ears, mouth, teeth, runs his hands over the dog to looks for lumps or abnormalities, checks over his legs and makes sure his joints are ok, listens to his heart, listen to his lungs/respiration, asks me what he eats, asks about his energy level, talks about any sort of supplements he takes, sometimes takes his temperature and checks the anal glands.

    But this lady had her tech do the most cursory exam feeling for lumps on his back and sides and that’s it.

    So she leaves the room to get started with prepping for the needle aspiration. Time passes (so much time) and she pops her head in and says that Dr. B (the practice owner) has to be the one who does it because she just had shoulder surgery (thanks for finally telling me) and unfortunately he still has two other patients to see, so can I come back another time? I turn around and tell her that I work every day and I switched my schedule around to be there that day and not for nothing but my appointment was supposed to be with Dr. B in the first place. So she says that she hopes that I wasn’t disappointed in having her treat my dog (I should have said something, but I didn’t). But I made the point that had I had Dr. B like originally scheduled, I wouldn’t have had to wait for him to finish with other people in order to do this test because he would have done the exam and the test and finish with me before seeing anyone else.

    I wound up waiting. My poor dog, already traumatized by the blood test puncture was panting and crying and barking. At first, I kept shushing him. But then I just let him bark it out, because maybe they’d be so sick of hearing him that they’d hurry up. Dr. B finally came in, did the needle aspiration and left. In and out in less than 5 minutes.

    I had hoped that he was going to come in alone so I could give him a tell him how disappointed I was with the exam and the doctor. But she had come in with him and with the vet techs in the room holding the dog down, I didn’t want to speak in front of them.

    It’s been 3 days and I’m still annoyed. I didn’t get to discuss the drooling episodes (she was not interested at all in discussing it since it happens so randomly and the Benedryl and Pepcid help manage it). Who knows if the other lumps are lipomas or something else? I wanted to discuss senior nutrition (but not with her at this point).

    I didn’t want to say anything until all the lab tests were in. Everything was good (Cholesterol and Total Protein levels a bit high, but she wasn’t concerned) and the biopsy came back likely to be fatty deposit lipoma.

    Anyone else have inadequate vet exams?

    And yes, I could have made a separate appointment to do the wellness exam and focus this one on the lump. But my vet knows these visits aren’t cheap and always makes a point of asking if there’s anything else I want to address while I’m there so I don’t have to pay for another visit. This new vet couldn’t be bothered…how do you expect to go to work to thoroughly examine a pet when you only have the use of 1 arm?

    #131987

    Topic: ph balance

    in forum Diet and Health
    Beth H
    Member

    Hi all: I have recently had my chocolate lab’s urine tested and have been told that he has crystals in his urine. She has recommended four dog foods that will provide a good ph balance that may solve the problem, rather than putting him on medicines and invasive testing.

    I am curious to see if anyone has any suggestions for a great dog food that is:

    for seniors: he’s 12 but active
    chicken and grain free (he breaks out from too much chicken)
    nut free (allergy)
    strong in providing a solid ph balance

    Currently, he is on Nautral Balance vegan formula (dry), with a scoop of 100% pure pumpkin and some beef canned dog food mixed in. He also is on glucosamine, fishoil and three prescriptions.

    I appreciate anything that anyone share!

    Beth

    #131737

    In reply to: Senior Foods

    Sanne
    Member

    No problem! Yes adding those separately is a great idea. It really is quite overwhelming as there are hundreds of brands out there, some offer senior foods, some do not. Currently, there are no requirements that a food has to meet in order to be labeled a senior food. You will see all senior formulas will say something along the lines of “formulated to meet all the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO for adult maintenance”. That is the exact same thing an adult food will say. It may say for All Life Stages in place of Maintenance which means it also meets the minimum requirements for puppies.

    There are established requirements for puppies and adults but not seniors so feel free to use an adult food or all life stages food. What I typically look for for my older dog is 25-30% protein, 10-16% fat, 3-6% fiber, phosphorus preferably no higher than 1.5%, sodium around 0.3% no higher than 0.4%. These are just some levels I find works for my older dog and the levels I have talked over with my vet. These protein, fat and fiber levels are just what works personally for my dog, yours may need higher or lower.

    The reason I do not like to see high phosphorus for an older dog is because it can be hard on the kidneys and it is not exactly rare for older dog’s kidney health to decline. I stick to foods that do not have too high of sodium to keep the heart healthy as heart health also often declines with age. My dog now has a murmur so I am careful about that.

    And I am rambling lol hopefully that little guideline will help you find something suitable for your dog that is reasonably priced. I find having an idea in mind on what to look for in a food can help narrow down all the options

    #131735

    In reply to: Senior Foods

    Christina T
    Member

    My budget is a little lower (teacher salary) than I like so thank you for that. I have been looking for a food with glucosamine and chondroitin because I didn’t know about the food levels being too low. I’m ordering that separately. I haven’t heard of Victor Senior. I’m learning a lot from you! Still overwhelmed and not sure why this site doesn’t list for seniors unless it IS because, as you say, they don’t require it. You are MUCH appreciated. I’ll check out Victor Senior, too.

    #131734

    In reply to: Senior Foods

    Sanne
    Member

    I don’t know about sites as I do not follow what any ratings say, that is just not how I choose my dog food.

    Everyone has different budgets so it is hard for me to say what is affordable without knowing yours. An adult food could work for your dog though. Seniors don’t really have special dietary needs. Some less active ones could do with less fat and calories but there are also adult foods that are not high in those. Glucosamine and Chondroitin added to most senior foods is pretty useless. The amount the dog would have to eat just to get a reasonable amount is ridiculously high.

    That said, Victor Senior is IMO a pretty affordable food with a good nutrition analysis. Good level of protein for a senior, lower fat without being too low (not enough could cause skin problems), phosphorus and sodium levels are good, good amount of L-Carnitine, and calories are quite low.

    #131733

    Topic: Senior Foods

    in forum Diet and Health
    Christina T
    Member

    I need a list of quality, affordable senior foods and am incredibly overwhelmed. I trust THIS site. Can someone recommend a reputable site since this one doesn’t list senior foods?

    #131707
    Teagsmom
    Member

    My chi mix just had her annual exam. She’s a senior so I have a complete CBD panel done along with some other tests. Everything came back fine except her ALT count (liver enzyme) was sky rocket! Normal is 21-121 and hers was 501. Naturally I freaked out because she has zero signs of anything being wrong. She had a bile acid test, ULtrasound and the vet tested for Lepto just to rule out everything. Ultrasound came back clear (thank goodness) but vet said bile acid test showed a tad of inflammation. She said this could be due to a food allergy. I had been feeding her Primal raw at night and Instinct Raw Boost with Stella and Chewy meal mixers in the morning. The Stella and Chewy meal mixers are her FAVORITE even though I prefer Primal.

    My vet suggested that I start feeding ONLY duck to rule out a food allergy. I didn’t realize how many companies add turkey and/or chicken with Duck. Primal was easy because they make freeze dried duck. I purchased Zignature Duck and ordered Natures Instinct LID Duck. I also got some goat milk and can food to add more moisture. I purchased Rawz Duck and Rawbble Duck can wet food. Both are comparable. This is where my questions come in……has anyone experienced this before and the result was a food allergy? What food do people prefer (Zignature vs Instinct and RAWZ vs Rawbble wet)?

    My neighbors had the same thing happen with their small dog. They switched from ZiwiPeak to a low protein kibble and the ALT went down from the high 500’s to normal range. MY vet said high protein food would not cause the liver enzymes to go up or down. If this is true, I’m not sure how to explain my neighbors situation. Since adding more kibble vs solely raw at night, my dog poops at min 3x a day. When on raw, it was 1-2x times a day and much smaller. I will have more info once we test her levels again in a few weeks but am curious if anyone has experienced this and/or has any recommendations. Btw my dogs behavior hasn’t changed. If it’s a food allergy I will be surprised bc her stools have always and continue to be firm. She’s never had Diarrhea- knock on wood. Thanking you in advance.

    #131259
    Carla B
    Member

    I am also questioning Hill’s Science Diet. I had two Chihuahua’s. Not related, and one was a year older. Widget died in Sept. 2017 from rapid onset Canine Dementia. She went from “perfect” mean little Chihuahua to an empty shell of a dog within one month. She was 12 years old. Our other Chi, Miss Pepper was fine and was 11 years old. EXACTLY one year later, the same thing happened to Pepper. The ONLY thing they had in common was diet. They ate Hill’s Science diet from the time they were 8 weeks old. They had the puppy formula, and the adult formula and then the Senior formula for “Small Breed”. How is it that they both suffered the same disease, but were not litter mates or related in any way? I honestly believe it was the dog food that killed my two little girls.

    #130962
    Sanne
    Member

    Absolutely not bad to try it at all! Don’t beat yourself up over it, some dogs are just soo much more sensitive than others and there isn’t much we can do about it. Honestly, the ingredients do not look awful in that food at all. It may be a little low in meat but dogs do not NEED high amounts of meat to be healthy. I would have no problem trying this food if my dog was miserable on everything else. If it works, it will be oh so worth it to see your dog have relief. Trust me, if it works any guilt you have about feeding it will be gone. The “best food in the world” is garbage at the end of the day if your dog’s system is not happy on it.

    A few years back, I tried to feed my dogs some 40% protein 20% fat grain free type foods. I was dead set on feeding my dog these kinds of foods because they are supposedly so high in meat which is supposedly the only way to feed a dog. So much wasted time with my dog being miserable, gassy, huge loose stools, itching. I finally said F it and started from scratch. Dumped the high protein food, stuck with something between 25-30% protein 11-16% fat and rice, millet, or barely for the starch since this is kind of similar to what she was on as a pup. What a difference. Such small firm stools that took a maximum of 20 seconds to pass. No nasty residue left behind. It may not have the highest meat content but who cares?? My dog is like a normal dog, no poop or skin issues, no stressing about what might happen next on this food lol. As an example of what I like to see in a food, while I was in the States I fed my dog Victor Senior and that worked so perfectly for her. The brands I feed now here in Europe all have very similar ingredients/analysis.

    Geez I let this get very long, sorry sometimes I ramble on 🙂 I just wanted to let you know I know where you are coming from and do not let the guilt get to you over the brand/ingredients. Both you and your dog will be happier for it

    #130820
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi
    has your dog been checked out for acid reflux? as we age with don’t make as much Hydrochloric acid in stomach, this is called Hypochlorhydria (Low Stomach Acid) & this can cause acid reflux…
    Dogs become fussy cause the foods they are eating are causing bad acid reflux, start feeding “lean cooked” white meats – turkey breast, chicken breast & lean pork cooked meat, boil Sweet Potato, Google “Judy Morgan Pup Loaf” I make into rissoles & freeze & add sweet potato, Sweet Potato soothe the stomach & bowel so after your dog vomits thaw a piese of sweet potato mash on plate & serve warm & dog will lick off plate, my cat & dog love sweet potato..

    Buy tin Salmon in spring water look for the tin salmon with teh lowest sodium/salt% drain spring water put salmon in air tight container put in fridge, boil Sweet Potato pieces & freeze in sandwich clip seal plastic bags put in freezer, if Sweet Potato pieces stick together when frozen just hit sandwich bag on sink & sweet potato pieces will separate. Take out as needed..
    Feed 4 small meals a day, for lunch get a bowl add 2-3 spoons of salmon & add 2-3 small pieces of boiled sweet potato, it thaws in microwave if frozen -15sec, mix with salmon & serve, warm not cold, your dog will love this..

    Look at “Canidae Pure Meadow” Senior kibble, get a small bag from pet shop, Canidae has palability guaranteed money back so if your dog wont eat it take back get refund.
    Canidae Pure Meadow is small size kibbles & has everything needed for an senior dog, only serve about 1/4 a cup with some salmon & sweet potato mixed together mixed thru the kibble….

    Also you said your dog vomites talk to your vet about taking an ant acid reducer like Zanatc or Pepcid to begin with, if you see your dog seems better when takes Acid reducer 20mins before Breakfast & Dinner then the ant acid reducer isnt working no more talk to your vet about putting your dog on something stronger an acid blocker – “Omeprazole” or I use 20mg “Pantoprazole”
    Trial for 3 -4 days then stop & see was there an improvment in those 4 days with your dogs eating while taking the ant acid blocker??
    You can buy at chemist, best given first thing in morning once a day 20mg, can be given before or after food but best as soon as dog wakes up then feed breakfast.. but you can not just be stop acid blocker once dog has taken for more then 21 days, needs to be reduced slowly if been on the acid blocker more then 21 days..

    #130745
    anonymous
    Member

    If that is too much work for you, boil or scramble an egg (no milk) and add to his kibble meal with a splash of water.

    Has he had a senior checkup? Lab work? Kind of important. He may have a medical condition that will respond to treatment.

    Find a vet that you like and trust, then listen to him.

    #130743
    Thomas B
    Member

    Hello everyone, I’m a newbie here. So, my 11 years old senior dog started losing weight. The only food that he eats is not full of good nutrients also.. I don’t know what to do… I searched for a specific food that helps a dog to gain weight, but I don’t want to waste money on foods that are not helpful at all. I found an article about that and it looks like there might be something that I need. Here is a link to this article if you have the same problem https://petshotspot.com/dog-foods-for-weight-gain/. So what are your recommendations? I tried to feed him with raw food but he vomits a lot and I guess it is hard for him to digest it.

    #130644

    In reply to: Wet food vs Dry Kibble

    Christie B
    Member

    Hi Susan,

    Thanks for the recipes. I’d prefer to make my own toppers and put my crockpot to use. If I don’t put anything on their kibble and leave it out, they’ll eventually get hungry enough to eat it. Today, I really confused them. I was running late to work so I put a whole large carrot in each bowl as both a “topper” and a daytime “treat” and I just peeked in on them 2 hours later on my petcam and neither bowl has been touched yet.

    I bet by the time I get home later tonight, there will be carrot bits all over my carpet.

    I used to boil (which I’ve been told time and time again kills the nutrients) skinless, boneless chicken thighs, but my big guy has food intolerance. I find a food that’s 5 star rated, and they hate it and refuse to eat it. I go back to my least favorite Blue Buffalo kibble and they gobble it right up. So I decide not to fight it, because there are worse foods out there. And both dogs devoured it up , no toppers needed. I was amazed. I went through a bag of Chicken. But I wanted something senior or large breed for my 10 year old, and they have a Senior Large Breed but it’s chicken and if I stay too long with one protein, issues arise. So I tried their Large Breed Adult Lamb and their regular Adult lamb. Dogs loved it for a few days, but then didn’t show much interest. Had to add a topper. Now not even through 1/4 of the bag, the itching starts. It’s a big bag. Is it the lamb? Ugh. It’s a never ending cycle of trial and error. I’m watching him for the next few days to see if it’s a fluke.

    If it’s not and I have to switch him to another food, maybe fish this time, how terrible would it be to feed my smaller dog the large breed bag of lamb so I don’t waste it all? She’s about 45-50 lbs. (though she should probably be 35-40 at ideal weight).

    Any brand have a senior large breed fish kibble? The BB senior and large breed guaranteed analysis % were similar, I just went with the large breed for the extra chondroitin and glucosamine

    #130539
    Christie B
    Member

    Are there advantages, other than price, in feeding dry kibble over wet food? I’m not trying to debate commercial feeding vs. raw. More like Brand A kibble formula vs Brand A wet food.

    If I understand correctly, on average, wet/canned food has more protein, more fat and less carbs than its kibble counterpart. https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/canned-or-dry-dog-food/

    I know a lot of people, myself included, mix a small amount of wet food in with kibble to make it palatable for picky eaters. And I’m going over my current pet food shopping list: adult kibble for 1 dog, senior or large breed adult for my other dog, canned food as a topper for both, wet food for adult cat w/ history of urinary blockage, and dry food for cat 2 who flat out refuses to eat wet food. I also use shredded chicken thighs, canned salmon and sardines as toppers.

    The worst is the days when I mix in a topper (could be the same can that I used the meal before that the dogs loved) and the dogs are now not interested and I’m left with half eaten mixed kibble that has to be tossed. Or even better, when my smaller dog licks the topper off of the kibble, eats a few pieces of kibble once the bowl is cleaned of the topper and then abandons the bowl.

    The average kibble feeding guideline for my 120 lb. dog is 5-6 cups of kibble a day. And I know those values are high and my vet even told me to aim for about half of that if I add some wet food as a topper. My dog seems happy with 1.5 cups twice daily.

    But looking at the same brand’s wet food product, it says” Feed ½ to 1 can for every 10 lbs. of body weight per day. That’s 6-12 cans of food! And since wet food is higher in fat, isn’t that even more unhealthy?

    The price alone is crazy. How do people with 100+ lb. dogs feed wet without going broke? Or do you just feed kibble?

    • This topic was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Christie B.
    #130478
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi,
    I was feeding TOTW my boy did really well with his IBD & Allergies then about 15months ago my boy went down hill, I dont know if it was the food but he stopped eating TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb his favorite & Patch eats “everything” then finally after feeding “Wellness Core Large Breed Adult” Patch finally started to get better & was his happy self again, you dont need to feed much, its high protein, low/med-fat & is low in
    carbs good for losing weight Kcals are 345 Kcals per cup, also is high in Glucosamine
    Patch is 10yrs old acted like a pup on Wellness Core Large Breed Adult…
    Wellness have a few different formula’s with grains with out grains with both..
    Here’s Wellness site – – https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food

    Canidae is another good brand…
    Canidae – https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
    Canidae Pure Meadow Senior” on page 4 is really good…

    #130444
    Christie B
    Member

    Hi madima,

    I have a 120 lb. 10 year old American Bulldog mix and 4 year old 45-50 lb. Catahoula mix. Like your two dogs, they have different nutritional needs. I’ve tried to find a food that both can eat (since they literally will investigate each other’s food bowls during feeding time).

    My senior dog had had issues with chicken and it’s really hard to find a Large breed Senior formula that doesn’t use chicken. And the ones that do are grain free and tend to use lentils or chickpeas in the first 5 ingredients and my dog winds up with stomach issues when he eats food with those ingredients. He did okay on CANIDAE Grain-Free PURE Meadow Senior Formula for a while.

    I haven’t had a puppy in a while so I can’t recommend any large breed puppy formulas.

    As for toppers, I rotate between canned salmon or sardines, eggs, boiled boneless chicken thighs or sometimes canned dog food [type that’s 96% *insert protein form*] when it’s on sale… not too much of it because I’m trying get these guys to lose some lbs. I used to buy Stella & Chewy’a meal mixers or Instinct Rawboost mixers, but they were just too expensive in the long run.

    madima
    Member

    Hello! I have a 7-8 year old Golden mix (he could be older, but they said he was 3 or 4 when we got him) who is around 75lbs, but needs to lose some weight. I also recently adopted a Great Pyrenees/hound or pointer mix large breed puppy. He is 3 1/2 months old and 35lbs.
    I have been feeding my older dog Taste of The Wild for a year or two now, and recently found out the things going on with the brand. I also currently have the puppy on the puppy formula, though I’m looking to change them both to something else.
    I’m sort of looking for full suggestions about feeding both of them, whether that be brands, supplements or toppers. I’m willing to top with natural things (vegetables, fruit, some meat, oil, etc.) or canned food, which I top my older dog’s food with for dinner. I have a feeling he has so orthopedic issues, which we’re going to the vet for tomorrow.
    I know the puppy needs a certain amount of calcium; not too much, not too little. I’m also aware my senior needs extra protein. I’m planning on asking about his diet when I go to the vet, but I wanted some advice on some dry food, wet food and toppers/supplements for both dogs. I’m not very educated when it comes to dog nutrition. I would appreciate any suggestions or advice. Thanks in advance! 🙂

    #130108
    Christie B
    Member

    @susan, I walked through Petco and looked at practically every bag of food they had. All the large breed formulas were chicken based. Almost all of the senior formulas were chicken based. The only one I could find is Nutro lamb based senior food.

    What kind of issues did your dog have with Nutro brand?

    And would you choose a large breed formula over a senior formula?

    Petco’s resident “food expert” asked what I was looking for when I went there the other day. I told him that I’m trying to transition away from chicken for the next rotation. They didn’t have a senior formula that wasn’t chicken based, but he showed me a Merrick bag that was high in protein and had 1200 mg/kg Glucosamine and 1200 mg/kg Chondroitin. I bought a small bag, just to see. I mixed a tiny bit in with their regular food. Neither dogs were interested at all, but eventually ate some of it. They literally turned away from the open bag.

    But the gas was bad afterwards…both of them. So bad. I think it was too rich. Most of the “senior” formula labels had proteins at around 22-26% and fat at 10-12%. Merrick’s was 38% protein, 17% fat. I liked that it had the Glucosamine and Chondroitin, but I think the fat content was too high.

    I’m not even going to bother continuing with it.

    #130094
    Katie G
    Member

    What is considered a good amount/low in kcal and fat for canned dog food?
    Any pancreatitis canned food recommendations?

    I’m thinking of switching my 15 lbs inactive senior (9 year old) neutered miniature poodle, but want to keep him on a “diet” plan so he won’t gain weight since he’s inactive.

    #130034
    Sanne
    Member

    I use Farmina Light for my older dog who needs less calories. Fat is around 11% I think. My dog does great on it

    Victor Select has a Senior/Weight Management food that also looks really good. Fat is around 12%

    Those are the only two I’m familiar with enough to recommend

    #129981
    crazy4cats
    Participant

    I’m so sorry to hear about your dog. Are you thinking of having the food tested or a necropsy done? I’m not sure if you realize that TOTW is made by Diamond. As huge as they are, I do not think they have veterinary nutritionists on staff or do feeding trials. Did she have any other symptoms besides not eating? Was she a senior?

    Again, I’m sorry for your loss and I hope your other dogs make a full recovery. Best wishes. 💔

    #129923
    Christie B
    Member

    @Susan Thanks for the advise. So far so good with his mobility. He still runs around and is pretty agile for a 10 year old large breed. I worry mostly about his front right leg, which is bowlegged. It doesn’t cause him any pain to stand or walk on it and he runs fine. I give him a senior Mobility Bites and Turmeric Curcumin supplements by zesty paws as a preventative.
    The Mobility bites have 450mg of glucosamine HCL, 100mg of chondroitin sulfate and 5mg of hyaluronic acid per chew and he takes 3 per day.

    My dog get sick whenever lentils or chickpeas are in the first few ingredients, so it’s hard finding a food that works (that he’ll actually eat). It was the biggest reasons I switched to Blue Buffalo. Most of the grain free recipes have chickpeas or lentil as a main ingredient.

    I guess I could always try to feed the two dogs in two different rooms, but every single time they leave like 1/4 of their food and then sniff around and eat each other’s.

    I’m trying to rotate proteins because we start to have issues once we stay on one too long. We’re just about done with chicken and I see the Pure Meadow lists chicken as the first ingredient.

    I literally walked through Petsmart on Friday and read every label. So many grain free formulas listed lentils or chickpeas within the top four ingredients and when I found one that listed something like sweet potatoes, the main protein was chicken.

    I was hoping to find something like lamb or duck. I know Merrick makes High Protein formulas, but I’ve heard some not so nice things about the brand. It rates good on this site. And I thought Merrick was going to run it’s operation independently from Nestle Purina. But I could be wrong. The internet is filled with conflicting stories. But at this point, if the food is decent and it’s working for the dogs, I should give it a try, right?

    I hear horror stories about Blue Buffalo and Merrick on this site. I’d love to find a food that can be found in a local store like Petco or Petsmart (I live near both).

    #129917
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi
    I prefer to feed diet for age of my dog, a pup eats puppy formula, an adult 1-7 eats an adult formula & a senior dog eats a senior food, senior food have all the supplements for aging dogs joint, bones etc & have lower fat, higher protein, well it depends which brand you feed, I like “Canidae Pure Meadow” Senior formula, its high in Omega 3 fatty acid, has Glucosamine but its not as high as the Wellness Core Large breed Adult formula, Ive found the the Large Breed formula’s are higher in Glucosamine & Chondroitin then most senior foods.. I was going to try Wellness Core Senior but it has Lentils Patch gets diarrhea from lentils & bad wind pain, gas farts..
    https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-meadow-dry-formula

    I dont know if your 10 year old American Bulldog Pit mix has Arthritis, he probably does??
    Have you tried “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult Grain Free dry kibble?
    it’s low Kcals-346kcals per cup, high Protein-34%min, low/med fat -13%max
    Carbs-30% scroll down to “Nutrient Profiles”
    then click on the “GET THE PDF” link it will give you all the max “Dry Matter Basis %”
    https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed

    My boy 10yr old Staffy – 40lbs suffers with IBD, Food & Environment Allergies & he has this 3-4cm bone thing growing out of his left hip bone, vets said they have never seen anything like it, the vet said he was probably born with it…
    anyway around age 9 he started running on 3 legs, letting his left back leg to hang while running, then last year in December – January he went down hill with his IBD then in March he was really sick with his stomach he had bad acid reflux, I started introducing Wellness Core Large Breed adult formula, it had the right fat%, Low Kcals, low carbs & high protein % also was high in Glucosamine was not less than 750 mg/kg
    Chondroitin Sulfate was not less than 250 mg/kg…
    After 3weeks of eating the Wellness Core everythng got better his stomach his acid reflux stopped 🙂 his back leg, he stop running on 3 legs, he ran on all 4 legs & started acting like a young pup again… His vet, the Pet Shop man, everyone couldnt believe what a big difference after eating the Wellness Core Large Breed Adult formula had made.

    Now I rotate his dry foods, between Canidae Pure Meadow Senior, Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato formula & an Australian made brand Frontier Pets Freeze Dried for lunch,
    cause Patch became so unwell in Dec -2017-Jan-2018 after eating TOTW & Nutro, I’ve kept feeding Patch his Wellness Core Large breed formula for 8-9 months never rotated with any other dry kibbles except at lunch time he gets a small wet meal, then Summer came & so did Patches environment allergies bad so I thought I’ll rotate & change his dry food to Wellness Simple Turkey & potato formula cause he did so well on the Wellness Core also the Wellness Simple is formulated for Skin problems & is high in Omega 3 fatty acids…
    About 2-3 weeks after I stopped feeding his Wellness Core Large Breed formula & was feeding him just the Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato formula, his IBD = firm poos & his Skin & coat was beautiful & shinney, he stopped alot of his scratching & being itchy from allergies, I also bath him twice a week or weekly depends on how itchy he gets, baths wash off all the allergens off his skin & paws, BUT he started running on 3 legs again 🙁

    The Wellness Core Large Breed is higher Glucosamine & Chondroitin Sulfate it must of really helped with his arthritis in his lower back pain….So I bought the Glucosamine Chrondroitin, Vitamin C & Maganese Powder to add to his dry meal, I couldnt workout teh dose as it wasnt like the tablets dose + it taste AWFUL yuk I couldnt drink it, it says to add to fruit juice, its yuk no way Patch will take it.. so I quickly put him back to 1/2 Wellness Core Large Breed kibble & Wellness Simple kibble, now he’s getting “Cartrophen Vet Injections” he gets 1 weekly injection for 1 month then you stop, today was his last injection, Cartrophen Vet has really helped his lower back pain the thing is he’s a nut & he jumps up to say hello to visitors & this is when he hurts his lower back more..

    You need a diet HIGH in Omega 3 fatty acid not high in Omega 6 fatty acid, Omega 3 is anti-inflammatory & tooo much Omega 6 is no good for inflammatory problems, Omega 6 is an inflammatory….
    The body needs a healthy balance of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. Excess consumption of omega-6s can trigger the body to produce pro-inflammatory chemicals.

    When a dog diet is not balanced properly & is too low in Omega 3 & way to high in Omega 6 alot of dry/wet can foods aren’t balanced properly, this can cause skin problems with dogs…. Omega 3 should be nilly 1/2 of what the Omega 6% says..
    Wellness Simple is excellent for dogs who have Skin/Stomach problems
    Omega 3 Fatty Acids-1.13%, the Omega 6 Fatty Acids-2.30% max %.
    Click on the PDF page
    https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/simple-limited-ingredient-turkey-potato-recipe

    Instead of adding 2 tble spoons of wet can food start adding some Tin Salmon in spring water, drain the spring water, put salmon in small air tight container put in fridge..
    Omega-3 fatty acids are found in salmon, sardines, eggs, almonds, and other anti-inflammatory foods. Add 1-2 spoons of tin Salmon or Sardines to each meal..
    Sardines can be a bit rich for some dogs I have to feed the Salmon + swet potat instead with Patch..

    What I do when changing to a new dry formula same formula, first I check is it the same Use By Date, same Batch?? then I put 1/2 new kibble & 1/2 old kibble in an air tight container & mix thru, my boy use to be very sensitive but now since rotating between a few different brands he does really well, his immune system has become heaps stronger..

    Boil Sweet Potato pieces & freeze them in those clip lock sandwich bags, Sweet Potato freezes & thaws really well, I put 1 frozen piece Sweet Potato in the micro wave 15-25sec etc then I mash teh Sweeet potato piece on a plate & let Patch lick it off..
    Sweet Potato & Potato firm poo up & is excellent when dog has upset stomach/bowel, start adding 2 spoons of Sweet Potato & Salmon with dry kibble, its healthier & cheaper then wet can foods..

    #129804
    Sanne
    Member

    Usually a large breed formula is only truly necessary for a growing large breed puppy. The calcium and phosphorus levels are usually balanced better in large breed puppy food, ensuring proper growth. Not sure about the guidelines for adults though, never had huge dogs

    Studies have shown that senior dogs need more protein per kg of body weight than an average adult dog, up to 50% more. Senior dogs on low protein foods had weaker muscles and more muscle tearing. There is no beneficial reason to lower a healthy senior dog’s protein intake.

    As a general rule of thumb, my vet tends to recommend around 2g of protein per kg of body weight for a healthy adult dog and 3g of protein per kg for a healthy senior

    #129803
    InkedMarie
    Member

    I can’t comment about the large breed or not but senior dogs need more protein, not less.

    #129802
    Christie B
    Member

    @InkedMarie, I’m not exactly a fan of BB myself, but it seems to be the one brand that causes the least issues with my dog.

    Over the past 10 years I’ve tried many of the brands recommended from this site: Wellness, Merrick, TOTW, Canidae, Acana, Instinct, Whole Earth Farms, Nulo…

    Blue Buffalo is the only one they seem to want to eat. It drives me a bit crazy. But considering my vet keeps pushing Purina Pro Plan, BB seems like a step up from that.

    My big guy isn’t overweight but losing a few pounds couldn’t hurt. The rep was saying that Adult formula has more protein than Senior food and as dogs age they require less protein. And since he’s over 100 pounds, he should be on a large breed formula.

    Susan
    Participant

    Hi,
    Have a look at limited ingredient formula’s if you think it might be food sensitivities, best off feeding a single meat protein & 1-2 carbs…
    I rotate between 2-3 “different brands” that agree with my boy, I dont feed the same brand 24/7, year after year, if something is wrong with a certain brand of dog food, heavy metals, toxins, contaminates etc then that’s all your dog is eating 24/7 causing health problems down teh track…
    Join this f/b group “Dog Allergies, Issues & Other Information Support Group” on face book
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/DogAllergiesIssuesandOtherInformationSupporGroup/
    Dogs who have thyriod problems normally suffer skin problems aswell so it might have nothing to with diet? But I’d still change his food brand, sounds like he has been eating Kirklands for a while, feed him a variety of different foods, chicken & turkey seem to be the cleanest meats when pet foods were tested for heavy metals toxins & contaminates.

    I feed “Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato & “Wellness Core” Large breed Adult. my boy suffers with IBD & Environment Allergies.
    Here’s Wellness Simple formula’s look to your right & you’ll see the different Simple limited ingredient formula’s to choose from…
    Here’s Wellness Simple Healthy Weight LID formula.
    https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/simple-limited-ingredient-healthy-weight

    I also rotate & feed “Canidae Pure” formula’s, Canidae “Pure” formula’s has limited ingredients.
    https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
    Scroll down a bit & look to your right & you’ll see all the pages of Canidae formula’s
    VIEW ALL << 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 >>
    I feed the Canidae Pure Wild Boar & Canidae Pure Meadow Senior formula..

    I would stay away from all fish pet foods, some can be very high in heavy metals, contaminates & toxins….
    The “First Mate” Chicken Meal & Blueberrries formula looks good & it’s Legume free, the rest of the First Mate formula’s are high in fiber -7%….
    https://firstmate.com/product/chicken-meal-with-blueberries-formula/

    #129294
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi Ruth,

    the ingredients look good BUT for the price yes its a rip off, there’s cheaper supplements around that are just as good maybe better to fix a dogs gut/immune system.

    I would stick with Probiotics Supplements made by companies who specialize in this field..
    Nutra Thrive advertise Holistic Vet Dr. Gary Richter, he might be a really good holistic veterinarian but he would have been paid alot of money to advertise Nutra Thrive, this is probably why it’s so expensive, there’s nothing special with ingredients to cost $187.97 for 30 scoops for 1 month supply…

    If you’re looking for a GOOD probiotic “Purina Forti Floria Probiotic powder,
    When they did a study & tested 10 popular dog probiotic’s, out of the 10 dog probiotics only 3 probiotics came back with live microorganisms.
    Purina came top 3 probiotics.
    https://www.proplanveterinarydiets.com/products/fortiflora-dog-probiotics/
    or
    Can you get “Blackmores Paw” Dog & Cat range in the US?
    Look at
    “PAW DigestiCare 60™ Probiotic” it has great reviews & suppose to be very good, my vet likes Paw supplements & the owner of the vet practice only stocks healthy foods, supplements & healthy treats that he knows his customer said worked & helped their dogs health problems..

    If your dog has skin problems give a dog probiotic you think is good & have a look at “Paw Dermoscent® Essential 6® spot-on for Dogs” you put on skin, back of their necks, my boy can’t take fish/salmon oil capsules, so this Dermoscent Essential would be very good for him, I’ve been told Krill Oil Capsules are better for people/dogs who have sensitive stomachs.
    https://www.blackmores.com.au/products/pet-health/skin-and-coat-health/dermoscent-essential-6-spot-on-for-dogs

    I’m going to also try “PAW Complete Calm” Chews so Patch has a better sleep now he’s getting older he’s been having restless sleeps some nights, someone wrote in reviews on the online pet store i use, she wrote, she gives her dog a 1 x Calm chew before bed her dog has Dementia & the Paw Calm chew settles her little dog down……

    I was at the vets yesterday cause Patch has been getting “Cartrophen Vet injection for 4 weeks & I seen “Paw Senior Vitality” powder
    ingredients
    Contains key antioxidants, vitamins and nutrients such as DHA, Lutein, Vitamin C, Vitamin A, Vitamin E, Vitamin B6, L-Carnitine and Selenium to help support brain, eye and immune health.
    I’m going to try this Paw Senior Vitality Powder next, make it in a bowl with water & Patch can drink it, it says its chicken flavour.

    I like supplements that are either Chews or Powders, with Patches Probiotic powder I was adding 10ml water mixing in a small bowl & Patch was drinking his Probiotic from bowl as a treat…
    It’s best to take Probiotic when stomach acids are low, so give either first thing of a morning then wait 1 hour before feeding Breakfast or I gave probiotic inbetween meals I gave around 10am inbetween breakfast & lunch meals…

    I read all the reviews & Paws has some really good reviews, best to look on the online Pet Stores & read their reviews cause its not the retailer adding peoples reviews, it will be people just like you & me who have tried a product then we give a review & the Online store just posts the reviews the good & teh bad reviews..

    I know you mighten have an order dog who’d over 7yrs old but look what you can get for $99, a Senior Pack, it’s not bad everything they need for skin, joints, gut & brain.
    https://www.blackmores.com.au/products/pet-health/pawfect-senior-pack

    Nutra Thrive reviews look shonky?? I read thru a few & normally when you read reviews there’s always 1-3 bad reviews – “my dog didn’t like it”, “my dog got diarrhea” etc but this Nutra Thrive his all 5 stars reviews??
    I wouldnt pay all that money $188.97 that is very very expensive probiotic, Nutra Thrive are praying on pet owners who are vulnerable wanting to fix their dog health problems… Nutra Thrive wont fix dogs skin problems, might fix gut health (maybe) but if dog has a skin problems need to find out why what is causing the problem??

    * Food sensitivities? – change diet,
    * Environement allergies? – Bath twice a week to wash off allergens.
    * Diet is Low in Omega 3? – add 1-2 spoons of tin salmon/sardines in spring water to each meal or add 1 x Krill Oil Capsule helps inflammation
    * Strengthen immune/Gut give Probiotic.

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