Hi Emtnicki,
Melissaandcrew gave you excellent advice. There were a few papers published that concluded lower protein diets decreased certain types of aggression. In my opinion there were some problems in how the studies were run and I don’t think the results were really valid. If you want to continue with lower protein foods you may want to take a look at “senior” diets as many companies lower the protein in their foods marketed to that age group.
In general when working with resource guarders if the item is not dangerous to the dog and not vitally important to you then let the dog keep it. Only remove the item after the dog has abandoned it and it and there is a solid barrier between you and the dog.
You don’t want the dog to pair getting cheese or hot dog or a walk etc with stealing and possessing an item. This is why Melissa recommended establishing the cue “let’s get cheese” independent of when the dog has something. There should be many “let’s get cheese” cues without needing to recover an item compared to using it to recover an item.
For professionals to assist you I’d look to see if there are any veterinary behaviorists in your area
http://www.dacvb.org or Karen Pryor Academy trainers https://www.karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer
In my opinion it is not the total amount of protein in a food but rather the quality of the protein (the bioavailibility — how much is used by the body and how much becomes waste (aka blood urea nitrogen)). Speaking as the owner of a dog born with kidney disease I know that high quality protein creates less nitrogen for her kidneys to have to filter (and thus less in the urine). And my dog with kidney disease actually eats a HIGH protein raw diet — ranging from 45 to 54% protein. In fact, I have 8 dogs all eating high quality kibble with raw and high protein canned toppers or exclusively high protein raw. I don’t have brown spots on my lawn — 8 dogs-high protein-no brown spots.
Additionally, they know that senior dogs actually need as much as 50% more protein than adult dogs as they are not as efficient at digesting their food.
I know you don’t want supplements but a trick used by those with dogs with kidney disease (and confirmed by science to work) is feeding probiotics and foods for those probiotics called prebiotics. This causes a “nitrogen trap” and routes some of the nitrogen in the blood through the colon instead of the kidneys. Gets pooped out instead of peed out.
Currently feeding our two dogs (ages 5 1/2 and 6) a grain free diet rated at 24% protein. We are getting burn spots and I am considering switching to a lower protein (still high quality) brand that might help reduce burning by lowering nitrogen in the urine. Both dogs are in very good health, but are close to the age where we also want to consider moving to a senior formulation in conjunction with low protein (if available).
Any recommendations on brands or experience with this welcome.
PS – we do not want to go down the road of supplements. My research indicates no proof they work and no controlled scientific studies otherwise.
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This topic was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by
billdoe.
Hi Skippy5761 –
You should check out the Raw Diet thread. I have three bloodhounds – including a senior – that all eat raw ranging from 45% – 55% protein at each meal. My senior is in excellent health. Senior dogs actually need up to 50% more protein than adult dogs, they just need high quality protein which you would get with a raw diet. Some believe high levels of protein stress the kidneys of older dogs but this isn’t true, low quality protein (like the rendered, high processed proteins in kibble) stress the kidneys.
Here is an article by Dr. Becker titled “Why 84% of Pet Owners Don’t Know What to Feed Their Aging Pets.”
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/05/surprising-findings-from-tufts-study-of-37-senior-dog-foods.aspx
Here’s a video from Dr. Becker titled “The Nutrient Your Pets need More of as They Age.”
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/04/26/make-this-mistake-with-your-pets-food-and-you-could-destroy-their-kidney-and-liver.aspx
Here is an article on the effects of a high protein diet on renal function:
http://files.championpetfoods.com/Effects_of_High_Protein_on_Renal_Function.pdf
Hope that helps 🙂
Wow, that’s a good question!! ACV won’t hurt the dog — it actually helps with digestion (especially in senior dogs). All of my dogs get ACV, with their food, regularly. BUT, I don’t know if it will momentarily shift the skin ph. My guess is yes it would — a dog’s skin is alkaline and ACV is definitley acidic. But, because it is also antiyeast, antibacterial etc I think the temporary ph shift would be of no concern.. Hopefully others will post if they disagree or have relavant info..
PS — Toxed is right!!! I use garlic like your mom uses ACV :)…
Hi poochie1059 — I agree with everything Hound Dog Mom wrote. Many better quality foods are appropriate for puppy, adult and senior dogs.
I wanted to add, MANY of us here on DFA, including Dr. Mike, believe in rotational feeding. We switch our dogs food regularly. Some switch daily, some with each new bag of kibble, some every other month and so on. If you start when the dog is a puppy and feed the same quality of foods you can switch between foods without having to “transition”. Dogs should be able to eat whatever (that is appropriate) you put in front of them. By only feeding one food we actually create sensitive tummies.
I rotate with every new bag of food and buy the smaller 5 and 6lb bags. I rotate proteins as well as brands. I use a variety of 5 star “all life stage” foods for all the dogs in my home including the foster puppies the adults and the seniors (I have 8 dogs and foster for Boston and Papillon rescue). The foods I use include Acana, Orijen, Brothers Complete, Merrick, Earthborn, Nature’s Variety, Nature’s Logic etc.
Additionally, many of us put “toppers” on our dogs’ foods. The topper can include canned foods, dehydrated, commercial raw, sardines, raw or lightly cooked egg etc. All these add extra nutrition and variety — sardines as an example are a great source of extra protein and omega 3 fatty acids.
Good luck with and best of health to your puppy!!!
Hi Sophia – both of my allergy prone dogs use Nutrisca which is grain and potato free. They both have environmental allergies and one has a potato sensitivity, and one has pancreatitis. Grains and potatoes both aggravate allergies and feed yeast. I have used both the Salmon and Chicken varieties. I also use Orijen for another dog but it may be too rich for your pup – unless it’s the senior formula. Honestly, my girl is 10 and has suffered since she was a puppy and she has done measureably better on Nutrisca – and I have spared no expense trying to find the right food for her – including a home cooked diet.
~Tracey
Thanks, Labs! I wasn’t surprised at the cases in my area, South La. I’ve seen dogs come in to the Humane Society that I worked – tested positive for HW.
These dogs were mosty outside dogs and throw aways. Mozart was picked up off the streets, a senior deerhead Chi. Poor thing had rotten teeth, dry skin, a broken shoulder that was healing and heavy heartworms.
I treated him and he peed on all of our beds and pillows. I don’t think he had EVER been inside a home.
Oh and badley abused and neglected. Had him 4 yrs. now.
Sister our Boston mix…I grabbbed her off of a busy road as a puppy. Come to find out she was only fed bread and very neglected. But I got to her before she was able to get heartworms. She would have NEVER been able to been an inside dog…with the idiots that had her! She’s been w/ us 5 yrs. now.
Have had Honeybee 9 yrs. Since 6 wks. old. And he’s HW free. Like I’ve said…I’m just torn on what to do. Figured I would put back oh HW prevention…but Honeybee has me scared. I think it would do him more harm than good. Mosquitoes are gone right now…so at least that’s giving me some time to think, research more and decide.
I know first hand the horrors of heartworms in pets…it’s horrible! But then again, what about the side effects of the pill?
It all has me worried and scared.
My senior dog developed stomach & skin problems about 3 years ago. Vet put him on Hill RX D/D after ruling out parasites, bugs, dry skin , etc.
It did seem to do the trick for him. No more itching and no more upset stomach. However, it is very expensive, I can only get it at the vet, and I noticed it had a very low rating. Any suggestions for a replacement food?
I used Wellness Core’s reduced fat to help a dog we adopted lose weight but it’s above your price range. Good luck.
Hi,
I’m very interested about the Solid Gold Seameal. Looked at reviews on Petco…and all 5 stars.
I’ve read that my Chihuahua needs Glucosamine & Chondroition for his collapsing trachea.
Right now he’s having a coughing spell and I’ve given him his Albuterol and put him under the misting tent.
What can I give him that will build up his trachea? Mine are seniors and looking into the product HDM mentioned also.
Also, why did I have to sign on a different name and not the same one under when I posts on dogfood reviews?
I’ve also had success with weight loss just by increasing the protein and decreasing the carbs of a grain-inclusive food by mixing it with a higher protein grain free food, ie Merrick Wilderness or Turducken (discontinued formulas) cut with Blue Buffalo Wilderness. For me, at any age, the increased protein and decreased carbs helped the dogs with weight loss. There are some high protein grain-inclusive foods as well, such as Merrick Classic and Acana Classic, and foods designed for puppies generally have a higher protein content as well (but not always) like Nutrisource Large Breed Puppy. I would chose the Nutrisource Performance formula over the large breed puppy formula for weight loss and yes for your senior. It is rated for all lifes stages. You would of course be able to feed a lesser amount.
I have heard Victor Grain Free is reasonably priced. I also use Nutrisource in rotation on my fosters and it is $51 for a 30 lb bag. Give it some time. A reduced feeding portion and exercise should help. Right now I have a senior foster who is eating just canned food and raw food and has lost 5 lbs in one month. But I’ve also had fosters on grain free kibble that have lost weight also.
I typed a response out and then lost it — user error UGHHH
I think its a good idea to look for a higher protein food as seniors need more protein than adults and protein is shown to help with weight loss. I’d also suggest trying a potato free food. Potatoes are known to aggravate arthritic issues in some. The protein in nightshade plants, like potato, bind with the fluid in the joints which causes inflammation. This may not be an issue for your pup but better safe than sorry in my opinion. Marie made a wonderful list of grain and potato free foods. It’s in the ingredient forum if I remember correctly.
Some of the foods in Marie’s list may not be high enough in protein but if they are better for the budget you can always add lightly cooked egg whites (high in good quality protein and no fat), boiled chicken, sardines packed in water, high protein canned etc as a topper to whatever kibble you chose.
My girlfriend started her senior dog on a product by Nutromax called Dosaquin. I really dislike some of the ingredients in it but she feels that the benefits are outweighing the negatives for her old lab mix. She’s seen noticable improvement.
I’ve seen a product for joints on Mercola Health Pets that looks great. I’d try this one before the Dosaquin if it were one of my pups. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/pet-joint-supplements.aspx
I would also suggest organic turmeric and the enzyme bromelain. Both have been shown to have a positive affect on arthritic cases — both are anti-inflammatory. Turmeric is relatively inexpensive and well tolerated by most.
Also, check with your vet on the exercise. I had a girlfriend with a similar case with her lab mix. Turns out the extra exercise was doing more harm than good for her pup. Ended up having to do water workouts with him — great exercise but easier on the joints.
I use Wysong Arthegix 5 days per week for my senior male. It contains boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. That’s interesting about the Solid Gold Seameal, I had no idea seaweed was good for the joints – but then again I give my dog sea cucumber and that’s supposed to be good, so I guess it makes sense?
Hi Jess,
I think you are really wise to look for a higher protein food. Senior dogs need more protein than adult dogs. I’d also like to suggest that you consider a potato free food. Nightshade plants, like potato, have been shown to aggravate some cases of arthritis. The protein in potato (called a lectin) can actually bind with the joint fluid causing inflammation in the area (may not be a problem for your furkid but better safe than sorry in my opinion).
Adding organic turmeric (the spice) to whatever food you feed can be very helpful too. Turmeric has been proven to be a powerful anti-inflammatory and quite effective in arthritic cases (needs to be organic as non-organic can be irradiated which damages the spice). The enzyme bromelain has also had positive results.
And, my girlfriend is using a product called Dasuquin by Nutromax for her elderly lab mix. She says she has seen noticable improvements while on it. I’m NOT AT ALL crazy about the ingredients in it but in her case she feels the good outweighs the bad in her senior pup..
Lastly, Mercola Healthy Pets has a joint supplement that looks really interesting. Personally, I’d try this one over Dasuquin. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/pet-joint-supplements.aspx
I’m not sure if any of the foods listed in the link below are within your budget, and amounts of protein vary, but these are all grain and white potato free. (Thanks for making the list Marie!!) /forums/topic/grain-and-potato-free-dog-foods/
If a slightly lower protein food is better on the budget, you can always add lightly cooked egg whites (high protein and no fat), sardines packed in water (good source of anti-inflammatory omega 3 and will increase protein), high protein canned foods etc as toppers to the kibble.
Check with your vet on exercising. My frined had a similar issue to yours and found out too late that the extra walking did more harm than good for her pups joints. She ended up having to use water therapy (great exercise without causing negative impact on the joints).
Hi Sedlypets ~ I agree with the others that a higher protein food is very beneficial with weight loss. I like the protein amount to be 36 or more if able. I would also supplement the food with a high protein complete and balanced canned food — subtracting kibble to compensate for the canned.
If you continue to think that it might be a medical issue I’d have her thyroid tested using Dr. Jean Dodd’s lab. Her lab is much more individualized — is the animal male or female, spayed or intact, senior or puppy etc. She has diagnosed thyroid issues in pups that other labs have missed.
Hi all,
I am overwhelmed by all the dog food options out there and need some help. I have a yellow lab who will be 8 in February. He is currently 95 lbs and needs to get down to 85lbs asap, as he has developed arthritis. The vet said losing weight is the best thing to make it better. To address this, I have cut his food down to 1.5 cups, 2 times a day, adding greenbeans at night, and walking him several times a week.
He has been eating Purina ProPlan Senior food, but the research I’ve done shows it’s not a good food. However, I can’t spend $60+ dollars per bag on dog food, I simply don’t have the money.
Does anyone have experience or suggestions that may help? I would ideally like to find a grain-free food, as he’s had problems with allergies for several years, but I know those are pricey. I’d like a high protein, low fat, low calorie food that is designed for senior dogs.
Any help is greatly appreciated!!
Thanks,
Jess
I have 2 rescue Samoyeds. Currently I feed Nature’s Recipe Senior Lamb & Rice but I have heard a lot about homemade feeding. I’d be willing to put in the time, not too interested in saving $$$, because I figure good ingredients will be required to produce a decent product. I’ve skimmed the titles available on the subject. Not sure where to start, any ideas? Want to keep it simple, please, or I will probably just keep on with the commercial kibble, as the vet hasn’t said they have any food related problems.
