[MaggiesDad]

Give the guys at http://www.allprovide.com a call – they got in to developing and setting up a raw food business after a change to a raw diet solved their puppy’s problems – which included excessive scratching, feet chewing, and bowel issues. Bad advice from a number of different vets (who prescribed steroids for the rest of her life!) cost their puppy an ear before someone suggested a change in diet. She’s no longer on any steroids, doesn’t scratch and has a new lease of life. They ship for free too!

[zcRiley]

Yes, please let us all know Nef’s biopsy results. You’ll get sound advice from the forum folks.

I have two pit mixes that had a slew of issues over a two year period. My recommendations come from not wanting to spend too much time second guessing ingredients when I needed to make a change fast. I needed clean results with a clean food. If your dog doesn’t eat it, it can’t affect her, can it? So I subtracted a lot of iffy ingredients with the following:

For budget: Zignature Zssentials

For raw without the thawing/mixing: ZiwiPeak air dried

It was the best risk I ever took. I said goodbye to Orijen.

[JeffreyT]

Dori..I am very sorry to hear about your son.
I would consider Standard Process as my maltese gets older..especially after seeing how well your beautiful maltese is doing at 16 years…inspirational really.

And Lazaro, I feed mostly commercial raw and give a whole food multi every other day and give joint support on alternate days. I rotate between Mercola, Dr. Peter Tobias, Nature’s Farmacy, Animal Essentials and Wholistic Pet Organics. All these companies focus on whole foods, use a lot of certified organic ingredients and limit gmo’s.

I also give enzymes/probioitcs with meals, fish oil and ubiquinol most days, and bladder support every other day for my maltese prone to stones.

Here is Dr. Karen Becker explaining the importance of Spirugreen…Mercola’s pet multi.
http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/spirugreen/

[Dori]

Hi James S. Well, first before contemplating anything relating to the cost of foods you’ll need to get the results of her tests. If it is not any type of cancer, and I sincerely pray it’s not, then I would advise you to make the leap and switch Nefertiti to commercial frozen raw diets. I think it is the healthiest and most appropriate species diets that are out in the market. I’ve been feeding them with my three for over 3 1/2 years. Yes, initially they may seem more expensive than kibble but in reality they are not. You feed less raw than kibble. They are more able to utilize raw than kibble. Vet visits have dwindled down to once a year for their physical. Hannah goes twice a year because she’s has hypothyroidism and blood has to be checked. That’s it. They always eat their meals, they love meal time and are always happy playful dogs. I feed high protein, moderate to high quality fats, and low carb diets. The easiest way to accomplish that, and the healthiest way, is with raw diets. I go the commercial frozen raw diet route rotating brands and proteins. Quite frankly, I’m too lazy to put raw diets together myself nor do I wish to. It’s also not how I want to spend my time. I sign up to all the raw food companies that I use to their email newsletter program and they email me coupons which helps a little with the cost. Oh, also with commercial raw diets in rotation the only dog that I need to add supplements to, and it’s not a need just a guess on my part, is Hannah who will be 16 in September. Things slow down and don’t quite work as appropriately as they did when they, and we, were young. Let us know the results of tests please. Praying for Nefertiti and the rest of your family.

[Emily W]

I have a Miniature Schnauzer that goes to our clinic and has allergies. One of the allergens he needs to stay away from is beef. Do Tartar Shield Rawhide chews have beef in them or are they alright to give to this dog? Also allergic to Egg, Chicken, Milk, Wheat, Rice, and Turkey. Thank you

[Dori]

Lazaro. If you are feeding a high quality dog food from a company you trust then no, I see no reason to add any vitamin supplements to their food. If you have a dog that is a senior or ill, then the only vitamin supplement that I would recommend is from Standard Process. Canine Whole Dog Supplement.

I’m a commercial raw feeder to my three dogs. The only one that gets a vitamin supplement daily is Hannah, my Maltese. She’ll be 16 years old in September.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Dori.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Wendy J-
I try to avoid it for my dogs also. I’ve never seen a list, but I have noticed that most canned stew type foods usually don’t have it whereas a lot of the pate styles do. The only problem is you get a little less bang for your buck with stews due to containing more water. I try to stick to budget friendly stews such as Pure Balance, 4Health and Kirkland. The other topper I use if on sale are frozen raw meat nugget, such as NW Naturals, Primal or Nature’s Variety. They do not contain carrageenan. Good luck!

[Leslie K]

Mille’s Woflheart!!! My youngest (3 year-old border collie / corgi rescue mix) has ALWAYS had problems. In addition to being generally picky and a selective eater, she has HORRIBLE skin allergies. Without fail she ends up with flare-ups and skin infections several times a year, and to ease her discomfort I switched to feeding raw.

While I loved feeding them raw, it has been costly, time-consuming, and honestly just complicated. I have always wanted a reliable, high-quality kibble, but felt like I had no options I could feel good about. Most of the (allegedly high-end and expensive) kibble I’ve researched has kind of questionable meat content, with a lot of protein coming from pea flour or other vegetables. They’ll also tout “all natural” ingredients……. and then contain a laundry list of weird chemical ingredients, vitamin packs, preservatives, and so forth.

Millie’s is by far the best answer I have found to this problem. My collie LOVES it, and the high omega content help her skin and coat look great… even through allergy season! I still feed some raw components with her meals, but Millie’s is our go-to base.

[Susan K]

Hello,

Two weeks ago I switched my 5yrs old shar-pei/beagle mix and my 4 month old puppy to all raw food, but my 5yr old refuses to eat food with added supplements mixed into it. Can I give them store bought vitamin/mineral chews, and if yes, since I feed them ground meat/bone/organ will I be giving too much calcium?

[jakes mom]

Thanks, Dori. I knew Hannah had some medical issues. Glad to hear her liver enzymes are lower now. I have been giving Jake some raw food and RMBs but only 2 of the cats will eat raw. Fresh or the freeze dried. Not the frozen, brats! Julie likes raw meat, Dustin will eat freeze dried. I was just curious, as I said, if supplements were used more as treatments or preventives. You mention milk thistle for Hannah, but do you give it to everyone after a dose of Sentinel? I’ve seen a few posts lately about milk thistle after hw meds.

[Dori]

Hi jakes mom. I give all three of my girls 1/4 tsp. once a day of organic virgin coconut oil (I like the brand CocoTherapy best). I’ve seen big differences in their skin and coat with the coconut oil.

Once a week or so I split a can of sardines packed in water with no salt between the three of them. Hoping to help balance out or at least give them a little extra omega 3’s.

Hannah who will be 16 in September gets Standard Process Canine Whole Body Support, Standard Process Enteric Support, SP Canine Hepatic Support, and SP Flex Support once a day. I can’t really say that I see all the benefits from these supplements but I know at her age things may be starting to break down or at least not as efficient as they once were. The Enteric and Hepatic are for liver and kidney support.

Vitamin E soy free (Mercola). I give Hannah 200 i.u. every morning in her breakfast. Katie and Lola get 100 i.u. Monday, Wednesday and Thursdays. I pinch the capsules and squirt on their food. The vitamin E was suggested to me by one of her specialists. Figured it couldn’t hurt the other two girls to get a little three times a week now that they are 5 1/2 years old.

Hannah is also on Denamarin once a day approx. 1 – 1 1/2 hours before her dinner meal. Also for liver support. (Denamarin is a chewable and it’s a combination of SamE and Milk Thistle also prescribed by two of her vets. (In case you don’t remember Hannah has a tumor in her bladder and a mass on the lobe of one of her lungs…both inoperable not that we would have put her through it at her age anyway). Her liver levels as of last months blood work are back to normal. High end of normal but at least not sky high as they were last year.

I believe that these supplements, and most especially, her commercial raw frozen diet in rotation with brands and proteins is what has kept her symptomatic to these cancers even though she was diagnosed and confirmed by two other specialists a little over a year ago.

I also diffuse a few different essential oils in the house that are suppose to be good for tumors and cancers. Are they really working???? Don’t know. But they certainly can’t hurt her. Neither of the tumors have grown since they were diagnosed. She likes to lay near the diffusers so at least she likes the scents.

Sorry for editing so many times but I just remembered that you asked how old our dogs are. Hannah is 7.3 lbs., Katie is 6 lbs. and Lola is 5 lbs.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Dori.

[susan h]

My 15-year old dog (small mixed breed – about 13 pounds – she’s lost weight) has developed a significant case of yeast-based dermatitis. She’s always had sensitive skin, but this reaches new heights. My new vet had her on prednisone and Baytril, which seemed to provide her some relief, and I’m using a special shampoo (though not regularly 2x/week – must correct that behavior on my part). She has large hairless patches, scabs around her face, and a good case of itching (though that has improved). I was reading this morning that carbohydrates in the diet can exacerbate this condition. I typically feed a selection of foods: her current favorite is Whole-Earth duck stew. Also provide a bit of kibble. She regularly gets probiotics, too. I am going to check the labels (and the Dog Food Advisor reviews) to ascertain the composition of her regular foods. Any responses regarding experience with withdrawing — or at least minimizing — carbs in her diet would be appreciated.

[zcRiley]

Cathy M – She’s young, start rotating food, she’ll luv it! Food has a lot to do with EVERYthing about your dog, however, not so much for the grass. If you’re willing to change the food & shampoo cold turkey (if there isn’t a medical issue), you can have results by the end of the week, really. I speak this way because an ex-vet of mine had me fearing all kinds of sudden changes like it were death. There’s precaution then there’s pill pushers.

First, you could train your dog to pee/poop in a sectioned off area of the backyard (maybe a hidden area or put up a small fence). I’m sure you thought of this though.

Second, drop these allergy prone ingredients found in Wilderness (Potato Starch, Potatoes, Alfalfa Meal, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Barley Grass, Dried Kelp). Look for chicken free, potato free, egg free kibble. Try Zignature Zssentials (3 proteins with simpler ingredients, the most “free” of just about everything in kibble form). Or try ZiwiPeak raw/dehydrated (no need to freeze or mix). The latter has a clean ingredient list and superb to digest (I’m so thankful I took a risk with it!). Or mix both if you’re on a budget. BTW, ZiwiPeak makes a Venison/Fish Formula if you don’t want to mess with extra pills/gels/squirts etc.

Use an all natural dog shampoo/conditioner (meaning you could use it if it weren’t PH balanced for dogs). Drag her to the tub and use Aroma Paws Shampoo, Honeysuckle Jasmine Formula. Just trust me on this one, we had dandruff city over here, LOL.

[C4D]

I use the Vital and the Vital Raw every few months. I used to use the Vital in the package with pieces of meat for an older dog that wasn’t eating well. The only problem I’ve ever had was that 1 bag turned very sour smelling 2 days after opening. The customer service was very good and I was contacted by a rep within a few days. So I’m thinking it might be the distributer or the way it was handled. Just my 2 cents.

[Anonymous]

If you decide to do allergy testing, it’s best to make an appointment with a specialist/dermatologist. I think your vet will agree, that will give you the most accurate results.
I am vegetarian too, I find stuff like chicken tenders, chicken breasts, sandwich steak in the reduced price section of my market. Cost effective, and it will keep in the fridg for a few days or you can freeze it.
I just chop it up a little, put it in a casserole dish add a little water and stick it in the oven at 350-400 for about 40 minutes to an hour. Or, just stir fry (medium heat) with a little water in a skillet. You can freeze individual portions.
But, don’t refreeze raw after it’s been thawed unless it’s cooked first.
Then I just add a tablespoon to their kibble mix and add a little water. I add a fish oil capsule too, good for itchy dogs.

[Pitlove]

All dogs no matter what breed in order to maintain proper weight and dietary needs as long as they are healthy with no known medical conditions usually do best on a food that is high in protein, moderate in fat, and low in carbs.

I’m sure if you gave us more info as to your situation (e.g income, how much access you have to pet stores, do they have a wide selection, do you prefer to order online) we could help you out a lot better.

Yes, typically canines do better with a grain free food, however, like most people on this site who are regulars will tell you, just because it’s grain free does not mean it’s species appropriate for a dog. A lot of companies that have gotten on the “grain free” bandwagon have replaced the corn, soy, wheat and rice in their foods, with high carbs like potatoes into order to bind the food together. So you need to pay close attention that the protein is not less than the carbs and the fat % is not too high either. Also, you need to pay attention to where the protein source is coming from. For example, a food that has 30% protein but you don’t see a whole meat or meat meal listed as the first second and third ingredients. That means they are using plant based proteins, which are not species appropriate protein sources as dogs are carnivores.

A few brands that meet these needs that are not avaliable at a commercial pet store like Petco would be Orijen, Acana, Wysong. Some brands that commercial stores do carry are Merrick, Nature’s Variety and Wellness CORE.

These are just ones I can think off the top of my head and that are apart of my dogs rotation. Most of us also use a canned wet food for the added moisture content and many people on here do raw homemade meals too. However if you think about going that route please do your research on how to create a balanced raw diet for a dog before just slapping together some chicken and veggies and calling that a meal.

edit: here’s the direct link to the google.doc aquariangt was talking about
https://docs.google.com/a/selu.edu/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit
these are foods that have the proper calcium levels for large breed puppies

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

bdog- i appreciate what you said a lot. and i really hope you didnt take my inquiry into the health of your cats as an implication that you are feeding them wrong. that was not my intention!

i agree with you 100% about by-products, they are in a raw diet which i would feel comfortable feeding my kitty and puppy if i had the time and better resources. like you i hate the anonymous meats as well. i was thinking about only using those products if it is an extra hard month money wise and i can’t afford an expensive food for her. they sell grandma mae’s near my work for .95$ a can and 4health GF is .69$ at the Tractor Supply near my house so those are also cheap options for me.

I also live in a state that is very humid in the summers and I haven’t had problems with fleas on my AmStaff yet. My kitties have always been indoor only. I used to live in a city and in an apartment so i didnt ever have an option to let them outside so i just grew up having indoor cats. my kitten right now is indoor as well, though i take her on her harnass in the yard and let her walk around sometimes. despite living in a feral colony for the first few months of her live on a college campus she does not seem to enjoy being outside lol. i’ve taken her on walks with us when we walk our AmStaff and she just cried the whole time and clung to me. poor girl.

[Jennifer H]

I think it’s a little odd that all the veggies look basically whole and raw. I can see many dogs just picking through and only eating the things they like.

[Bobby dog]

pitlove:
You have to do what you feel comfortable with, they are your pets and in your care.

As I wrote in a previous post, “My cats have passed all wellness visits (blood work included) over the last several years and the couple that were chubby have lost the extra weight. Paying attention to the recipes regardless of the quality of the brand has made a significant difference in their health.” I can’t say that was the case before I started providing a better diet.

I have a cat that has been diagnosed with a hyper thyroid about five years ago. I believe the terrible food I fed him helped contribute to his condition. In order to renew his Rx each year blood work is required. Over the last year he gained a pound which he needed and his coat has filled in beautifully. He had bald spots due to dry skin and he used to be almost bald due to scratching his face so much, it was terrible. He still has some dry spots on his back, but nothing like he had two or even one year ago.

I contact companies all the time. I only do so in writing; my professional experience has taught me to get things in writing. I don’t know what the legalities are for any company for any product in regards to honesty when responding to consumer questions. I have found from professional and personal experience that most people are not willing to put things in writing that can come back and haunt them.

I have no issue with by-products, homemade raw diets contain them. I would rather have named meat sources too; as I wrote, they all contain ingredients I don’t like. But, it is what it is for me and my kitties.

Edit: Last year was the first year I did not have to use any sort of flea or tick protection for them. I live in an area that is humid in the summer. They are outdoor cats and are brushed daily to check for parasites. I hope to do the same this year, no topicals. Hopefully, their immune system is as healthy as it was last summer.

[Bobby dog]

Pitlove:
Here’s my list of grocery store foods. There are other recipes in some lines that fall into my criteria; this list only includes food my cats will eat. All have ingredients I don’t like. None contain soy, wheat, or corn, some contain fish, but are not fish based recipes, and if starches are included most are either rice or potato. Most carbs are 12% and under DMB some are a little over; %’s are in parenthesis using info from the company’s site.

Fancy Feast – Turkey and Giblets Feast Classic GF, no fish (7), Tender Liver & Chicken Feast Classic GF, no fish (7), Tender Beef & Liver Feast GF, no fish (7)

Pro Plan line:
True Nature – Chic & Liver Entree Classic GF, no fish (2)
Savor – Beef & Carrots Entrée Classic GF (10), Chic & Spinach Entrée Classic GF (10), Turkey & Veg Entrée Classic GF (10)
Focus – Chic & Beef Entrée Classic GF (5), Kitten Chic & Liver Entrée Classic (2)

Friskies – Poultry Platter (11), Special Diet Classic Pate’ Turkey & Giblets Dinner no fish (9), Special Diet Classic Pate’ Beef & Chic no fish (8), Classic Pate’ Turkey & Giblets (14)

Beyond – Chic & Sweet Potato Pate’ GF (11) and Chicken & Brown Rice pate’ (10)

Sheba – Turkey Pate’ (7), Chic & Liver (7), all Sheba recipes are grain free and fish is only in the recipes with seafood in the title.

Iams – chicken (13), chicken & liver (13), beef (14) pates’

Purina One – Classic Turkey GF, no fish (7), Classic Chic GF (7), Classic Beef GF (7)

My seniors have not taken to a rotational diet, they are 17 and like what they like. I am always on the lookout for new foods to try. My current rotation includes a few Wellness CH recipes, Innova cat & kitten, CSCLS, Cali Nat’l, BB kitten pate’, Grandma Mae’s, Nutrisource, Triumph turkey, Weruva Marbella Paella or CITK Fowl Bowl & Chic Frisk a’ Zee, Tiki Cat sardine or shredded chicken recipes, and my senior female likes Pure Balance GF Chic & Turkey. A few times a month the seniors will also eat NV raw chic or beef medallions, Primal FD Turkey, and Stella & Chewy FD Chicken Dinner, but they all still demand their kitty crack.

I contacted Purina and asked what types of meat they source and if they use any 4D or 3D meats in any products. Here’s their reply:

“Thank you for contacting Nestlé Purina PetCare Company.

We appreciate the opportunity to address your inquiry. Our Company is extremely committed to food safety and quality control. Keep in mind that our products are formulated by professional pet nutritionists and veterinarians and are produced under strict quality standards. To learn how we ensure this quality, please visit: https://help.purina.com/answers/how-does-purina-ensure-the-quality-of-its-products.

Purina only uses high quality meats. Nestlé Purina PetCare Company purchases its meat from suppliers who process meat for human consumption under the supervision of a U.S.D.A. inspector. All meat used in our pet foods comes from facilities certified by the U.S.D.A. where the animals are inspected by a U.S.D.A. inspector. These suppliers are carefully selected by Nestlé Purina PetCare Company, which provides detailed ingredient specifications to those suppliers to help ensure the integrity of the meat it purchases. We do not utilize dead, downed, disabled & diseased meats in our products.

We hope that this information is helpful and that you will contact us again should you have additional questions.

Again, thank you for contacting Nestlé Purina PetCare Company.”

Regardless of their reply I would never risk their health by only offering foods they won’t eat, however this reply was a bit of a relief for me.

weezerweeks:
I checked my cat food list. The only brands that I have fed that come in larger cans are Friskies, 4Health (Tractor Supply Co. & Del’s Feed house brand), Wellness, EVO, and Innova. FYI, Fromm’s canned dog foods contain taurine. I have not fed it to my cats, but I used to feed NV canned dog foods to my cats before they reformulated it and took taurine out. At least I think it was NV, it was before I kept a cat food list. 😉

[InkedMarie]

I have no experience in anal gland issues but have you tried a wet diet (canned, dehydrated or raw)? Just curious if that would help.

[Pitlove]

As the title states are they? I got a free sample of sojos turkey dehyrated raw and I’m wondering if (when rehydrated) these can be fed alone in place of kibble (with or without a canned food as well). I gave my dog the sample tonight mixed with 1/2 cup of warm water and he loved it. He is not a fan of his kibble regardless of how high quality of a kibble I feed him (currently Orijen).

[Susan]

Hi here’s just a few Limited Ingredients foods in the “Dog Allergy International groups” files that may work for dogs with food sensitivities… also when on a limited ingredient diet no other foods are given, nothing, no treats, no peanut butter to give meds nothing just their limited ingredient diet for 3 months, then if dog is doing real well then add a new ingredient & see if there is any reaction with new food..
Petcurean GO Sensitivity limited ingredients Venison.. Michele Dixson from Petcurean is in group & helps dogs with allergies..
Farmina Vet Life Hypoallergenic Fish & Potato
Performatrin Ultra Limited ingredients
Lily’s Kitchen Recovery recipe wet food limited ingredients
Canidae Grain Free Dry & Wet
Rayne Maintenace Diets
Addiction Nutri-RX Allergy HS
Natural Balance limited ingredient Dry& Wet
Zignature limited ingredient formulas
Merrick limited ingredient Dry & Wet
California Natural Hypoallergenic limited ingredients dry & wet
Darwins Raw
Ziwi Peak

[Pitlove]

Bdog- Thanks so much for sharing all the info. I have read through catinfo.org and I do agree with Dr. Pierson about wet vs dry (my cat is on all wet). My cat is my champion eater. She is not picky at all so thats not my problem. I have an odd work schedule and don’t have the time to feed all raw for both my dog and cat like I would love to, so for the kitty I do all wet to at least make an attempt at feeding her right. I change her canned food all the time. She’s eaten Merrick, Nutro, Nature’s Variety, Grandma Mae’s and I just got some clearance cans from PetSmart of Max Cat and Innova to tid her over til my shipment of Tiki Cat and Weruva come in for her. Just always looking for new brands to try her out on. I would love those lists if you want to share!

[Dori]

Darwin’s is reviewed. Check on the review side under raw foods. If you are looking to see Darwin’s on the Editor’s Choice list, I doubt very highly that it will ever show up there because Darwin’s is not readily available to all. It has to be ordered from their web site on an auto delivery service and not everyone can afford the delivery fees which are not outrageous for a raw frozen food but when added to the cost of the food it’s a bit high for most. But anyway, Darwin’s cannot be bought in stores.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Dori.

[Bobby dog]

Labs:
4 Health is a decent food for cats, however mine don’t care for the brand. My one senior female will eat the GF Whitefish and Chicken dinner occasionally, but I really don’t like feeding a fish based food wet or dry too often. If I do, I prefer smaller species because they are likely to contain less contaminates. Wellness and Tiki cat have recipes that use either sardines or menhaden that I prefer.

pitlove:
This is a long thread and you would have to have the time to read through our trials and tribulations of transitioning our cats to a more species appropriate diet. The regular posters on this thread have written about spending several years trying to transition to other foods. We mostly have dry food addicts; not a healthy form of food for kitties. My cats grew up eating grocery store foods and like what they like. They are 7, 10, 12, and two are 17 years old. It is very dangerous, even life threatening, for cats to go on hunger strikes. I for one am not willing to risk my cats life if it comes down to a hunger strike. So rather than dwelling on the negatives of Purina I keep my cats eating consistently for good health and keep searching for other foods to try. As far as Purina products go I have a list of a few recipes from different lines I feed that IMO have the least offensive ingredients for my cats. Some have little or no fish, none have glutens, most have no added colors, some no grains, all are under 11% carbs for UT health, and probably other things I have forgotten about. Since wet foods make up a majority of their diet any food I feed must be 12% DMB carbs or under for their UT health.

A quote from Dr. Pierson, DVM of catinfo.org:
“…I would much rather see a cat eat any canned food versus any dry food – regardless of quality level of the canned or dry food. This includes Friskies, 9-Lives, Fancy Feast, etc., canned options.”

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

My cats have transitioned to about 3/4 of their diets being canned foods. Wet foods are the healthiest for cats. My cats have passed all wellness visits (blood work included) over the last several years and the couple that were chubby have lost the extra weight. Paying attention to the recipes regardless of the quality of the brand has made a significant difference in their health.

I feed them a variety of commercial raw, canned, and dry foods. I only have one cat that is not finicky so my dog gets any leftovers from a new food that does not go over well with them. If you would like my list of what I call my cats’ “grocery store foods” just post and I will be happy to share. I also have a list of premium foods wet/dry/commercial raw if you are interested. And, welcome to the Cat Rec thread. The cat lovers on DFA post here about any cat topic!

Here’s my favorite cat sites:

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

Home

http://www.naturalcatcareblog.com/
http://www.felinecrf.org/
The last site is for a specific feline health issue; I have found the site helpful in regards to foods to try.

[Pitlove]

Kind of sad that Joe B couldn’t actually stick around and have a back and forth conversation like an adult about this topic. He came here simply looking for someone to agree with him which I find really sad and unnerving especially for the health of his dogs.

Obviously the vast majority of us here do understand the new research that developed that dogs are in FACT scavenging carnivores, not omnivores. Doesn’t mean we can’t be civil and have a conversation.

I was raised from the time of birth as a vegetarian because my mom was. I was never given a choice as to whether or not I wanted to eat meat and it never bothered me until I got older and wanted to have some control of my life. I could never imagine forcing a diet on my cat (especially my cat) or my dog just because it was my diet.

I was thinking about it the other day because I work at a pet store that sells live mice as feeders and everyone always thinks its so gross. But I sat and thought about it and was like wow you know what ya sure I love all animals and I feel some sympathy for the mice but it’s amazing that the only creatures on this earth that we allow to eat the diet they are meant to eat are reptiles, fish (when they are given feeder fish), some birds (i think). Yet when it comes to a dog eating his ancestral diet (raw MEAT) we freak out. People have told me that other pet stores have tried to make them feel guilty for feeding live mice to their snake or would not sell them live mice. I told them I think it’s fantastic.

Truly I do wish people could see the importance of this concept for dogs and cats too.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Pitlove.

[Susan]

Hi, you just need to find that right diet, join this Face Book group https://www.facebook.com/groups/dogallergyinternationalgroup/ look in the files there’s so many limited ingredient foods also Salvia & Hair Testing kits “Glacier Peak Holistic” test for 100+ Environment allergies & 200+ food for $85….
I would not remove anal glands, once you work out what foods she is intolerant too & avoid, the bum surfing & ear infections will stop, I was feeding pumkin, I have just stopped, I found the pumkin was making Patch itch & bum surf, I’m feeding Quinoa at the moment + tin salmon spring water + a gluten dairy, sugar free fish kibble …… look in the files there is so much information & a lot of experienced people who have dealt with food sensitivities/intolerances, environment allergies.. Patch is seeing a Naturopath Jacqueline Rudan Tuesday & is going on a raw diet + Enzymes + natural meds to help with the gut & nausea, his vet also put Patch back on the Metronidazole/Amoxicillin again for 3 weeks, so I’ve had enough at least the bum scooting has stopped when I stopped the pumkin but the nausea & eating grass hasn’t stopped… also look at DigestaVite Plus 100g Patch will be starting a small dose when it comes. http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/skin-allergies.html

[Karen B]

My Lab has been on raw boost for over 5 months (duck & turkey) and does very well on it. I am just starting to mix it with the new line they came out with (something Protein).

[Reed R]

I need some suggestions on a good nutritional quality dry food to use as a 10% supplement to the 90% of a Veterinary prescribed dry food(Royal Canin Calm) I am feeding her which supplements her meds. She is about a 5-6 year old Spitz/Border Collie mix that was a feral dog living on the streets. We have had her for 5 years. Ultra smart but also can get pretty wild. She eats all types of raw fruits and vegetables that are suitable for dogs and during gardening season right form our organic garden (sometimes when she not supposed to she just helps herself). I have been looking at Fromm’s & Taste of the Wild. When we first got her we were feeding her Canidae until her attitude issues made the shift to her current food. Our Vet/Behaviorist is letting us try supplementing to start 10% of her current food with another brand. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Richard S]

I’ve been feeding my giant schnauzer 3 pounds of raw (hamburger, heart, liver, chicken, green tripe) per day. Now she won’t touch it. Can someone please recommend a raw-food product from whom I can purchase a pre-packed, complete, raw diet that I can thaw for each mea? Thanks.

[InkedMarie]

Ellen,
do some google searches on Blue Ridge beef. One, the guy who owns it also owns a rendering company; that alone makes me suspect. Two, its very cheap food. Thats a red flag for me. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

look at Reel Raw Dog. Good prices & free shipping. Depending on where you live, you get free shipping if you buy in 30lb or 50lb increments.
Hare Today is also good but no free shipping.

[InkedMarie]

Grandma Lucy’s has a goat food. You can feed a raw diet. I feed a ground raw, one of the companies has novel proteins that I doubt your dog is allergic to: goat, llama, quail, rabbit and more from Hare Today. I’m kind of surprised a naturopath vet is ok with a vegan diet.

[Ellen D]

I’m hoping there is a simple answer to this question. I have a very picky 15 week old labradoodle puppy. Right now, the only foods he will eat are Darwin’s raw beef recipe and my homemade food (following the Ottowa Valley Dog Whisperer recipe).

I’d like to get into 100% homemade, but I don’t have a meat grinder currently and would like to be sure of everything before I invest in one. I also don’t always have the time to sit and watch him eat his bones, so I’d like to have ground options for times when he doesn’t have my 100% undivided attention.

So, if I order chubs of pre-ground meats (such as Blue Ridge Beef, etc.) that has the correct ratio of meat to bone to organs, and mix that with my own fruit/vegetable and supplement blend (assuming I offer the correct supplements at correct dosages and add no additional calcium), then the inclusion of the ground bone should provide for the appropriate levels of calcium and phosphorus in the correct ratios, yes?

Last question – does any one have experience with Allprovide premade raw food? It looks to me like the puppy mix ha the appropriate ca:phosphorus ratio and has quality ingredients. It has 2.33g of calcium and 2.09g of phosphorus per 1,000kcal.

[pugmomsandy]

What do you feed them regularly? Kibble? Homemade? If you’re currently feeding them a balanced diet, then you can give raw meaty bones (RMB) or other unbalanced food for no more than 20% of their diet and not have to worry about balancing the diet out. If you feed twice a day then you can give 2.8 meals as unbalanced such as the chicken legs and thighs. Of course that depends on the size of your dog whether or not a drumstick or thigh is enough for one meal. I do feed raw bones thawed though.

[Anonymous]

Helpful article below:
By Klaus Loft, DVM
Angell Dermatology Service

Anyone who suffers debilitating environmental allergies tied to changing seasons, pet dander or household dust mites knows first-hand the misery of a scratchy throat, itchy eyes or painful rashes.

Not everyone knows, however, that our pets can experience similar allergic reactions — and other very bothersome dermatological issues. But our pets need not suffer in silence. Modern veterinary science has evolved such that advanced, comprehensive treatments are now available to treat a range of skin conditions.

Top pet dermatological issues

Our four-legged friends suffer from some of the same skin issues as we do — and several that we do not. The most common conditions we see at Angell include:

•Parasites, such as mites, fleas and mange (scabies)
•Infectious diseases, such as Staphylococcal pyoderma (“Staph”) skin infections, yeast and fungal infections and skin fold infections
•Systemic diseases, such as autoimmune diseases
•Skin cancer, such as Squamous cell carcinoma, cutaneous lymphoma, Mast cell tumors
•Allergies, such as flea allergy dermatitis, adverse food reactions, environmental allergies, etc.

All of these conditions can become serious and, if untreated, dramatically reduce quality of life. But the tremendous strides made in veterinary innovation, however, is very good news for our pets. Specifically, the testing and treatments for allergies now rivals human healthcare in its sophistication, quality of care and long-term health outcomes.

Unlike humans, dogs and cats cannot tell us about their dermatological health issues. So we as pet owners must look for the signs. The most common indicators that a pet is suffering from some kind of allergy involve frequent episodes of ear infections, red raised or open sores on the skin, constant licking or biting of paws or groin — sometimes causing wounds that will not go away.

Allergies present a particular challenge because there can be hundreds (even thousands) of potential allergens that impact pet health, from foods to pollen from grasses, weeds, trees, dust mites and more. Today’s specialty veterinary hospitals have access to the very latest diagnostic tests to get to the bottom of what’s ailing our pet. Among these tests is the Intra Dermal Test (IDT).

IDT is generally considered the gold standard of testing for identifying allergens that cause pets to suffer from chronic skin and/or ear diseases. IDT involves injections of a series of concentrated allergens into the skin to determine which of them generate allergic reactions in a given animal. The use of fluorescein — a chemical that illuminates the inflammation caused by the injected allergens in order to visualize the strength of individual reactions — is key to accurately diagnosing pet allergies, and is just one of the many ways veterinarians use new technologies to improve care and diagnostics.

The results of IDT (as well as a review of the pet’s medical history) can then inform comprehensive immunotherapy treatments to relieve suffering. Veterinary dermatologists rely on IDT to build customized treatment plans for patients called Allergen Specific Immuno Therapy or “ASIT” for short.

ASIT involves a series of injections specifically created for the allergic animal’s skin. These injections, of diluted allergens, are designed to make a pet less sensitive to their allergens over time. In most cases these injections must be continued for life to reduce symptoms, but they are highly effective. Seventy to 90 percent of pets experience a reduction in symptoms as a result of ASIT treatment. These treatments can be delivered even more easily via droplets under the tongue, perfect for pet owners who are squeamish about giving injections to their pet.

This treatment is very new to the North American field of medicine (both human and veterinary) and underscores just how far innovation in veterinary medicine has come.

When it’s time to see the vet

Many pet owners are understandably concerned about taking their animals to the veterinarian because the cost (to say nothing of the fear some animals experience when going do the doctor) may outweigh any perceived reduction in suffering. To help pet owners know when it’s time to bring Fido to the doctor I’ve compiled my “Top Ten” list of dermatological symptoms that should never be ignored:

•Intense itching of the skin (head shaking, running the face into the carpet, furniture, etc.)
•Biting at the skin that creates red, raw crusting areas of the skin
•Multiple ear infections (head shaking, odor from ears, scratching at the ears with hind legs)
•Paw licking or chewing and frequent infections of the skin in the webbed skin of the paws
•Staining of the fur of the paws and nails on multiple feet
•Reoccurring skin infections in the groin, under the shoulders, perianal areas (on or under the tail)
•Greasy scaling skin and/or fur with odorous skin
•Hair loss, or thinning of the fur
•Dark pigmentation of the skin that is chronically infected
•Sudden depigmentation of skin

Allergies and other dermatological issues can be as frustrating for pet owners and their veterinarians as they can be for pets. I encourage any pet owner whose animal is experiencing any of these symptoms to consult with their veterinarian.

[Donna G]

Hello Mike,
I see that Earthborn is one of the 5 star foods on your site but I don’t see it listed as one of the Editors Picks.
Can you give me the reasoning behind that decision?
And yes I do feed that for my choice of kibble with a raw diet as well.

[Susan K]

Thank you! Since I have 3 dogs the amount of food is perfect for me, but a week ago I switched my 5yrs old shar-pei/beagle and a 4 month old puppy to raw foods, my 3yr old min schnauzer refuses to eat raw and since he, like most schnauzer, has a tommy troubles ( after spending 2 days in a hospital was diagnosed with gastritis) I don’t push it. So, I still have to cook some food, and keep it as part of a rotation for the other once.

P.S…..Their recipe is very good. The first time it was made I left it on a stovetop to cool down, my daughter came home, and before I could say a word deposited a hefty spoonful into her mouth…said it was good but needed a bit of salt…lol. I just kept quiet!!!

[Paula D]

Yes, I used it when my Bruno developed late-in-life kidney disease and the vet recommended a more medium protein and –more important— low phosphorus diet instead of the raw I had been feeding. Easy to understand recipe, using the food processor it didn’t take long to chop up everything, and both my hounds liked the cooked food. My two “negatives” we’re that the recipe made a lot of food and so you needed freezer space and it was expensive. Their treats are also excellent!

Good luck.

[Tiffany K]

What are thoughts on proportionate sized frozen raw chicken legs and thighs? Just plain and given frozen?

I have done this with success after doing a lot of research. I feed them in the fenced in back yard so they are not smearing chicken bacteria all over the house (they would head straight to my bed) and monitor everyone (4 dogs). I check their stool, no problems and it really knocks off any tarter and plaque. Most importantly, they love them. It is a HIGH value treat to them.

Am I playing with fire? They are so many conflicting accounts of feeding raw that I can’t find the thread of truth.

Another treat I am using more and more are human grade low sugar peanut butter granola bars. Again, broken in half for the little guys. But I am skeptical about all dog “treats” at this point. I am going to real food every time.

My Shih Tzu has been “tricked” to believe that a carrot is the height of dining, as I have given him lots of fruit and veg since he was a puppy. I am skeptical about all dog “treats” at this point. I am going to give them whole, human grade food every chance I get.

[DogFoodie]

I’m not sure which FreshPet formula you’re referring to in particular, but in general, I like the product very much. I use it occasionally in my rotation and would use it more frequently if my wouldn’t be so expensive to feed it to my big dog. My dogs like it, and their stool quality is excellent when they eat it. I prefer the Select Grain Free bag meals (as opposed to the chubs) simply for convenience. I’m eager to try their new Vital Raw Patties. I’ll occasionally pick up a big to mix things up a bit for a day.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes I buy the beef marrow bones. You can boil one bone for 3-4 hours and have about a gallon of beef broth, just skim the fat off of it the next day after it’s been in the fridg overnight. Then freeze it in smaller containers. I add the fatty cooked marrow to their food….it’s high in calories, but it’s an occasional treat.

I still let them chew on a frozen raw beef marrow bone about once a week, they love it, but be careful. They can break a tooth, and my poodle mix had stomach upset, had trouble digesting the ground up bone. They have to be supervised.

[InkedMarie]

Sherrie,
I had a dog with struvite crystals, not stones. I didn’t put him on a special diet. I would not use the food your vet recommended, I’d find a holistic vet to work on a diet with. If you don’t have one close enough to you (do a google search, the website will come up), there are many who will do phone consultations.
I do know that moisture is very important for your dog. Raw, pre made raw, canned are much better than dry.

good luck!

[tt w]

I’m getting a St. Bernard puppy soon ,and have been researching possible diets. Of course I’m aware raw-feeding is the best option, but for an adult st. bernard, it would cost close to 300 dollars a month! Are there any good alternatives either kibble or wet food that are mostly protein, grain-free, and suitable for large breeds? I’m also in Canada, so anything available here would be great!

[Dori]

Thank you losul. I’m hoping to get something of an education out of the experience. I’ve never done anything like this before seems silly for me to say and admit to since I feed commercial raw diets, but I’m hoping I don’t embarrass myself and break down into tears as I’m also pretty sensitive as to how the dead are handled in making food for others to eat. It’s a bit contrary on my part with my very opposing feelings on this issue. I just can’t save the world, just those in my cars.

Thank you for the compliment earlier. I do my best by my charges. That’s what we’re suppose to do so I do my best.

[losul]

Hi Dori, you’ve done an amazing job with your dogs! And great to hear about Hannah still doing so well!

Yeah, I doubt AAFCO will ever do anything positive for the the raw dog food industry, after all AAFCO is so largely geared to and even controlled by the major dog food giants. Be nice though if the raw food manufacturers would join together/invest in some sort of alliance in studies, and maybe their own guidelines. Though I find that doubtful also.

The discussion on the review side reminded me. The owner of Allprovide has gone to lengths to say how they their poultry is human quality, they take it home to eat themselves, etc. And that their beef comes from a USDA inspected plant. I would still need to make sure the beef is USDA inspected and passed, not just inspected. So I still have questions. I’m not crazy at all about feedlot beef anyway or other CAFO animal feeding operations, and I don’t use them in making homemade.

Thanks for your willingness to visiting their facilities!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by losul.

[Andrea H]

She liked the Backcountry dry, I mixed probably about 1/8 cup in with her regular and of course she picked that out first but ate the rest as an after thought. Silly dog. So, for now I’ll mix the small bag I got in with the big bag and we’ll go from there. If I do go with canned added it will only be a couple tablespoons at a time, I’m frugal, lol! I’m thinking what she really enjoyed in the backcountry food is it has soft bits in it (that must be the “raw” they are talking about). Wish it wasn’t so expensive…we’ll see! 🙂 And yes, I’ll share pics of the cartwheel if it happens! 🙂

[Robert H]

How about “Merrick Backcountry Raw Infused Great plains red recipe”?

Thank You

[Dori]

losul. I’ll be checking out their facility with my husband one day next week. I’ll report back on this thread.

Like your post very much and I can now also see the benefit of using All Provide (after visit to their facility) as a possible replacement periodically for one of the girls meals a day and the other commercial raws as their other meal.

It would be really nice if AAFCO some day would do a profile on commercial raw dog foods. As I doubt very highly that they’ll be doing that anytime soon, I will continue with my rotational feeding and ignore whether a company is really entitled to use “meets AAFCO guidelines” on their product. It doesn’t pertain to commercial raws in any way that I can see. I’ve been feeding commercial raw foods in rotation for the past 3 1/2 years maybe a little longer and all three girls are doing well. Well, except for Hannah who is 15 years 8 months old and spent the first 12 years of her life eating kibble. Bad mama, I didn’t know any better at the time. All things considered for her age and have a couple of forms of cancer she’s doing pretty damn well. Her doctors are still stunned that she remains asymptomatic to either cancer. Her only real issues pertain to geriatric decline. Hard of hearing, night blindness, a little arthritic, stuff like that, that we, even as humans, come down with.

I’m still not thrilled that Allprovide has no issue with the possible inclusion of antibiotics or hormones in their proteins but as I don’t feed anything feathered it may not apply to my situation.

[losul]

Hello Aimee
I’m glad my pup raising days (and child raising days) are long past 🙂 or I’d have to study all over again to get enough confidence to homemake even then half of a pup’s food properly. I think it’s very important to start off a pup on good foundation to health early for the proper build of health throughout life. And then to think that someone could be using an exclusive food (most of us regulars here on DFA never would ) through gestation, nursing, puppiehood, and adult hood, one should be even more careful. if I did ever aquire another puppy, not at all likely, but I’d definitely want to see that at least some wholesome rawness was a part of the diet, but I’d also want to make certain it was properly formulated, and well rounded with wholesome ingredients, whether formulated by myself or someone else. Getting the macronutrients right at the VERY least, and not dependent to any large degree on any one formulation.

But I also think many raw maunufacturers face a dilemma, do they add a bunch of vitamins/minerals, many of them perhaps needlessly, and some perhaps harmfully,
in order to be able to put that AAFCO label on them? I think AAFCO guidelines were
designed for and are a must for heavily processed foods, the most so being kibble,
and even much more so when low grade, questionable, and inadequate ingredients are
used. I can’t imagine how nutritionally devoid most kibbles would be without rather
heavily added vitamins/minerals.

But, if you take vitamin E for example. It gets used up with time, processing, and
natural peroxidation/oxidation of fats, especially the sensitive, unstable fats.
What vitamin E added when a kibble is made, needs to be sufficient throughout the
manufacturing process, the time that the kibble is stored, and then throughout the
time someone is feeding the bag. Probably if measured at the time a kibble is fed,
it would be a very small fraction left of the original vitamin E included
originally, but hopefully it would still retain at least some smaller amount. I
think the AAFCO guidelines likely allow for these losses.
Whereas a raw, minimally, but properly processed diet, fed immediately, or that is
frozen in well sealed packages is going to retain most of the original vitamin E.
The food/fats is still going to undergo some peroxidation, albeit at a much, much
slower rate. I believe to much vitamin E can be very harmful, just like to much
much of many other added nutrients. Even AAFCO is concerned with overnutrition.
“Maximum levels of intake of some nutrients have been established for the first
time because of concern that overnutrition, rather than undernutrition, is a bigger
problem with many pet foods today.” I’m satisfied that Allprovide has more than
sufficient of vitamin E in that food for MY dog, with the added wheat germ oil.

Another example, I think you know of the importance of vitamin D in regulating
uptake of calcium and some other minerals. Probably you also know the detrimental
effects of to much vitamin D in supplemetation, including possible hypercalcemia.
And we have both seen how many raw foods, both homemade recipes and some
commercially prepared, appear to be “deficient” in vitamin D when going by AAFCO
guidelines.
I found this study interesting, “Some Observations on the Dietary Vitamin D
Requirement of Weanling Pups” and the conclusion; “Dogs fed diets with and without
supplemental cholecalciferol did not differ in growth rate, food consumption or
selected serum or urine values. Likewise,there were no differences between the two
of response to added cholecalcifrol was probably due to adequate levels of calcium
and phosphorus in the base diet and possible synthesis of vitamin D. However, it is
possible that some vitamin D could have been present in one or more of the
ingredients of the basal diet. It has been suggested that dogs may only require
additional vitamin D when there is a mineral deficiency or imbalance in the diet
(11). However, one study reported canine rickets in diets containing 1.2% calcium
and 1% phosphorus (6).It has been reported that carnivores may not possess the
mechanism of vitamin D synthesis in the skin (7). Another study demonstrated that
dogs fed a nonpurified diet without added vitamin D under conditions of total
darkness did not exhibit bone defects (Kealy,unpublished data). Previous reports
did not record the ultraviolet light status of the environment. It is not
understood at this time how the dog acquires sufficient vitamin D for metabolism.
Part of the explanation appears to be related to a very low vitamin D requirement
in the presence of adequate dietary mineral balance.The observation that large
breed dogs raised in indoor-outdoor kennel runs do not require added vitamin D is
important <b>because supplemental vitamin D, calcium and phosphorus are frequently
recommended and used at levels in excess of the nutritional require
ments of the dog, presumably to enhance bone growth and development. The data
reported here suggest that supplementation of nonpurified, commercially available
dog foods with vitamin D may not be necessary.</b>

http://www.2ndchance.info/homemadediet-Kealy1991.pdf

Aimee, I know you’ve expounded about the blatant abuse of some other raw manufacturers in applying the AAFCO label of completeness on their foods, and I largely agree with many of your points, especially when it comes to all life stages/puppy, and especially the macronutrients Ca,P. etc.

I never expected you to approve of this one either. But for us, the puppy blend, good quality balanced proteins and well balanced fats, The meat, bone and beef organs in the proper proportions, and it’s other rounded whole food additions, and it’s 95% of the way there for us. I have a few more questions to ask, but as it stands for now, when my food supply runs down some, I intend to buy some Allprovide puppy blend and use at least as a sometimes meal/topper for my adult. It can replace some of the to expensive canned foods we’ve been using for the second meal of the day. I see it as a step up and less money too. The first meal will still always be raw homemade, or another solid commercial brand raw. If I did see a long list of added synthetic vitamins/minerals, for me, I’d likely just pass on this food. I’d still really appreciate someone (Dori?) to take a visit to them and report back.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by losul.