[betsycam]

My sister has an older dog with the same kinds of problems and I suspect he has had a chronic systemic yeast infection for years. She feeds Taste of the Wild and the dog has not gotten better.

My dog is raw fed but he is old and he developed a systemic yeast infection for while. I started him on the Nzymes.com skin program, and took note of their food recommendations. Since sugar feeds yeast and carbs/starch are sugar, it is very important to eliminate those carbs! I discovered that one of the Bravo Blend formulas I had been feeding my dog contained sweet potatoes, and Nzymes discourages feeding grain-free foods that use sweet potatoes or even potatoes as an alternative carb source. I cut out that formula and fed a raw diet with no grain or starchy veggies, and he cleared up!

The other thing I did was give him a thyroid med that includes T3 in it (dessicated pork thyroid gland). This is trickier to do since vets will usually prescribe thyroxine which is just T4. My dog’s thyroid had been tested by hemovet.com’s lab (Dr. Jean Dodds) and his T4 was normal and his T3 was at the very low end of normal. The vets said he wasn’t hypothyroid, but I went ahead and used an over the counter porcine thyroid pill which I believe also made a huge difference. I would have this dog’s thyroid tested at any rate.

Go over Nzymes.com’s recommended food list for their skin program – they do recommend some diets that aren’t as difficult as feeding raw!

[pugmomsandy]

If you look at the ingredient lists, they are at the FAR OPPOSITE ends of the spectrum. It’s almost like for someone who hasn’t eaten meat in a long time, and then they eat a big bowl of chili or a big steak. Not saying that Beneful doesn’t have meat, but it’s not anything like the meats and organs and fish in Orijen and now it has a bunch of legumes. A dog has gut flora that adjusts to eating certain foods. Right now, he has the ones most adapted to Beneful. So it might be quite a shock to go to Orijen. Also Orijen has quite a bit more fat. I would put it in the high fat category. This also might possibly cause some digestive upset. But I’m just being cautious! You won’t know how your dog will do until you try it. And also try several foods. A rotational diet is (IMO) best. Find a couple kibbles, some canned foods, some raw foods, etc. Back a few years ago, I weaned mine off Beneful with regular Merrick (the old recipe with gravy) and Blue Wilderness mixed together.

http://urbanpawsmagazine.com/archives/59

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[sippmanjr]

Hi Hound Dog Mom ( or other who know what to do )

I have decided to wean the wean the litter onto wellness core puppy. It was one of your 5 recommendations and they have been great to send puppy packs with samples for everyone. I will be rotating my dog with the NV instinct as well as Earthborn. My question is… How do I safely add sardines and eggs into their diet and my girls diet without changing the amount of calcium they will be getting. I have looked at nutritionals on sardines and it seems they do have a solid amount of calcium. Also what other raw natural foods do you think I should be adding into her diet and how do I go out about that. Obviously the base of the diet will consist of dry but I definitely want to add natural raw in as well as often as I can and as early as I can. I want to be able to have recommendations for all the new owner so they can continue these puppies on a healthy lifestyle. Thank you all for the info. This has been a great forum!

[ellgee]

This is my first post although I have been an avid reader of DFA for a long time.

I am at my wit’s end with my French Bulldog’s allergies. I do have an appointment with a vet allergist/dermatologist on 11/1, but I just don’t want him suffering until then.

He has been on several 4 to 5 star foods over the years and is currently on Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost (chicken) which I add some of the raw bites (duck) too. Yesterday I came home to soft stinky poop in the house! He hasn’t had an accident since he was a pup! I know he must have GI issues because we have to wipe his bottom after every poo and this isn’t anything new.

His skin is very red with crusty spots, he is losing tons of his hair. I am bathing him twice a week with Douxo chlorhexadine shampoo. Last time I took him to the vet, he told me that in looking over Dudley’s records, this happens at the same time every year leading us to believe these are environmental allergies. And due to a weakened immune system, he gets these skin infections and staph. Last go round, he was on antibiotics and steroids. I do NOT want to use steroids long term if I can help it. He is on a daily Benadryl which doesn’t do much as far as I can tell.

I was reading on the Supplement Forum and my head is spinning. So much information.

My question is since we don’t believe it to be food related (but who knows???) should I try to boost his immune system? Should I feed him an elimination diet?

Help!

[DieselJunki]

I actually know exactly whats in my dogs food. Chicken, Beef, Turkey, and Pork, including all their bone (well except for most of the beef, to dense), and organ! No euthanized pets in my dogs food! But then again I feed big chunks of raw meat and not kibble. I have watched that youtube video. It is very disturbing but something that will never stop until more people really start to care and research their CARNIVORES dietary NEEDS.

[Cyndi]

My Bailey is 50lbs. and has been on a raw diet for 5 months. I give her a half a turkey neck, along with gizzards or heart and liver, 2 or 3 nights a week for dinner. She has never had any problems with them. A turkey neck is basically one long bone with a lot of meat on it, not a bunch of little bones. I think they would be totally fine for a smaller dog. It would take a bit longer for them to eat it, I would imagine, but I’m sure they’d do fine with them… Good for cleaning teeth too!

[Sully’sMom]

Duke the Boxer: this is what they’ve told me so far:

“The rabbit protein we use in our canned and raw diets is from China. We employ a U.S. educated food scientist in China to oversee our rabbit sourcing. All rabbit protein is tested before shipment from China and again after it arrives in the U.S. for processing into our diets. We are very confident in how we handle our sourcing from China. We source most of our ingredients from the U.S. and turn to other locations only as needed. We are very stringent on our sourcing and have good relationships built with our vendors for quality ingredients.”

I replied that I was asking about the kibble and have not heard back. Personally, if the canned and raw diet rabbits are from China, I personally would likely not order the rabbit kibble….(aren’t there US rabbits??)

[Akari_32]

If I didn’t have such a mixed lot of dogs, I wouldn’t see a problem with it, but since I do, I’d like to ask and see what you all think. Prepare for super long post of stuff!

We have three dogs, one my moms, and two are mine. Mom has an 8 pound, 1 year old, Jack Russell/Maltese. He’s got a super high metabolism. Eats a whole cup of food, yet remains slightly (by less than a half pound) under weight, by my best guess, seeing as he was only supposed to weigh 4 pounds to begin with. It’s hard to keep any meat on him because he’s such an active nut. On top of regular food, he gets a couple treats a day (Zuke’s Hip and Joint and Denta Sticks), and every month or so, all three dogs get a raw meal replacement (turkey neck/back, pork hock, etc).

My dogs, 9.5 year old 130 pound Rottweiler/Austrailian shepherd, and 10.5 year old lab/retriever mix, are outside dogs, much to my dislike. I sneak them in a few days a week when moms working out of town. As soon as money starts looking better, I’ll be getting my own place, where they will be indoors, always. Haley, the lab mix, does have trouble keepig weight on when fed according to the bag these days, but is otherwise healthy. I’ve been feeding her about 5 cups, as aposed to the 2.5-3 she used to get, and that’s doing the trick. Dweezle, the rott mix, also eats 5 cups, for perspective. Neither of these two are very active, but I have recently taken to taking Haley and Bentley (the puppy) on nightly walks, because that dog can drive just about anyone up a wall! He drives poor old Haley nuts LOL Dweezle, do to his dog aggression, can’t be taken out often. He absolutely hates the neighbors dog (in his defence, no body in our neighborhood likes that dog), and has gotten in some trouble with them (thankfully they didn’t press charges…). Can’t risk running into them on a walk.

Because money is currently tight, I do coupon for my dog food. I try to keep the bulk of it Wellness Core (Original), but recently got a great deal on Racheal Ray Zero, so that’s what most of their food is right now. I also got paid to coupon for Purina One Smart Blend (both chicken and lamb for something different), so I have tons of that, as well. Because I do not want the Purina to make up the bulk of the diet, and I’m running low on the Racheal Ray, I need to buy either some more Wellness or more Racheal Ray. I have great coupons for both, so I just need to do some math and decide which is cheaper at the moment.

I have been trained over my research of dog foods to avoid reduced fat type foods because they are typically lower quality (those in my price and couponing range, anyways). Curiosity got the best of me, and i checked out the Reduced Fat Core on this site as well as a few others, and was surprised at how good it actually was, better, IMO, than the other Wellness foods. My concerns, though, are that with two outdoor dogs, and Florida’s “winter” creeping in on us, as well as a feisty littler terrier puppy, would the reduced fat formula be a suitable staple for my dogs?

As far how feeding time goes, I mix all three dogs food in a large bowl with a large can of Pro Plan (coupons for one free can, so I’ve got tons!) and an egg. Haley has some problems digesting large quantities of dry food, and Bentley has trouble eating lager kibbles when they aren’t a little wet (when he doesn’t get fed at the same time as the other two, he gets his food wetted with water). Their dry food is currently 6x 6 pound bags of RR Zero, 2x 6 pound bags of RR Just 6, and 3x 3.5 pound bags of Purina One (and 4 more bags of RR and about 30 more bags of the Purina stored). Their diet can also include, but is not limited to, Blue, all other kinds of Wellness, Hills (SD and Ideal Balance– neither ever in bulk), and anything else that gets store coupons to mix with manufacturer coupons (not usually much else, though).

Any thoughts on the reduced fat Core would be great. If you don’t think it’d be a good choice for my case, please feel free to suggest something else! I’m open to anything. Shoot all your ideas my way!

[RescueDaneMom]

I tried to post this in the supplements forum but it wouldn’t acknowledge that I was logged in.

I was looking through Starwest Botanical’s products on amazon for ingredients to make HDM’s superfood supplement. I came across a “GreenPower Blend” that they make.

Ingredients:Organic Barley Grass Powder, Organic Wheat Grass Powder, Organic Spirulina, Organic Spinach Powder, Organic Alfalfa Leaf Powder, Organic Kelp Powder, Organic Dulse Leaf Powder, Organic Barley Grass Juice Powder, Organic Orange Peel Powder, Organic Beet Root Powder, Organic Dandelion Leaf Powder, Organic Lemon Peel Powder, Organic Ginkgo Leaf Powder & Organic Wheat Grass Juice Powder

Would this be an acceptable whole food/ green supplement to add to a homemade raw or cooked diet? I wasn’t sure about the ginko leaf powder. Thanks!

• This topic was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by RescueDaneMom.

[pugmomsandy]

This video may help you:

/choosing-dog-food/karen-becker-best-worst-dog-food/

And some more articles:

http://b-naturals.com/index.php?main_page=index&main_page=newsletters

http://thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

You can feed any kind of food any time. Kibble one meal, raw for one meal, dehydrated for another meal, canned food the next, etc. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

[laurieangel64]

does anyone know anything about raw diets?are they good?bad? can they be used in rotation or as a supplement with dry kibble?i have 2 dogs at the moment.an 3month old shitzu and a 1&1/2 year old poodle,peke,pom&american eskimo mix(lol,i know).they are both currently on a dry kibble rotation diet,2brands,3 varietys.iam considering the benefits of a possible raw diet but have some concerns as i know nothing about it.i did feed my 1&1/2 yr old raw goats milk from answers for 1st few weeks as he came 2 me young and wasnt ready 2 be weaned yet.but am a little leary of raw meats etc.if it is a good diet can it be used partially as in some raw ,,some dry kibble?or does it have to be one or the other only?thankyou in advance for any help/direction in this area

[pugmomsandy]

The review of Tucker’s Raw Frozen was just posted yesterday. It has very few ingredients. Might give it a try. Do you use canned food currently? I’ve fed Sojo’s, The Honest Kitchen and Addiction dehydrated foods so far and no problems with those. Stuart Raw Science and Wysong Uncanny are two other foods I’d like to try. There are lots of options to use to avoid and a kibble-only diet.

[KiraLynB]

Hi, we have been feeding our bichon puppy raw food since we brought her home at 8 weeks. She has had some diarrhea problems here and there, and her stools are pretty much always soft. How long is the transition period for her tummy to get used to her new diet?
It is very messy! lol
We were feeding her Stella and Chewy’s frozen raw Duck, Rabbit
BARF store was out this week so now she is on Vital Essentials Rabbit.
She is also on EBarf from barfworld as I read somewhere it would help. I’m not sure if it is helping at this point.
Is it okay for me to switch from Stella and Chewy’s to Vital Essentials? The store owner told me it was fine.. but I’m assuming she said that because she was out?

[Melissaandcrew]

I have been reading that recently as well, especially pertaining to a raw diet. However, I have never been told to supplement E when using fish oil, when feeding a commercial diet. So, I am not sure if this is the case or not.

[Melissaandcrew]

Hi Huskymom-

Owning rescues, I have several with bowel issues. The one that is most severe is one of my dober gals. After years of trying every food I could think of, I discovered she did best with a lower fiber diet. She eats commercial raw, Victor grain free ultra pro, and Abady granular. Anything else and we are back to the squirts and weight loss.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi jimmianne –

There’s no such thing as a single “best” food. The less processed the better – so raw would be the best option, followed by fresh cooked, then dehydrated or freeze-dried, then canned, with dry food being the worst option. With whatever you feed, variety is key – don’t stick with the same food. Rotating foods helps to strengthen your dog’s gut by fostering a diverse population of microflora, gives your dog a variety of nutrients and give you options in the event of a recall. If you’re going to feed a dry food as the bulk of your pup’s diet I would add a quality “topper” – such as raw, dehydrated, freeze-dried, canned or healthy fresh foods (i.e. eggs, lean meat, plain yogurt or kefir, cottage cheese, tinned sardines, etc.). Canidae looks good on paper but I personally wouldn’t risk feeding – the majority of Canidae’s products are manufactured by Diamond who has very poor quality control and numerous recalls. Unless you live in the same state as Canidae’s plant or in a neighboring state you’re probably getting product manufactured by Diamond.

As far as supplements, some good supplements to consider would be probiotics, digestive enzymes, quality fish oil and whole food supplements (with “super foods” like kelp, spirulina, bee pollen, etc.).

[Hound Dog Mom]

I think the increased stool volume has to do with how the ingredients are processed not the quality of the ingredients. The Honest Kitchen and Grandma Lucy’s both use human-grade ingredients. I believe it’s the fact that the vegetables are in larger pieces and (at least with THK) raw that causes the poor digestibility. Dogs don’t produce cellulase so they are unable to breakdown the cellulose in plant-based ingredients unless they are cooked and processed. With my dogs’ raw diet I cook and puree all their vegetables.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Wow Melissa, I’m so happy to hear you’re going the homemade raw route! I don’t think you’ll be disappointed in the results. 🙂

I would suggest getting as many different varieties of organ meat as possible (remember, hearts and gizzards are considered muscle meat not organ meat). Liver should only comprise 5% of the diet and 5% should be “other” organs – the more organs you can get to make up the “other” portion the better. Ask for items like kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc. If you can get gullet and trachea these are a great source of naturally occurring chondroitin (good for the seniors’ joints) – not organ meat though. Obviously if you can get green tripe go for it (muscle meat).

The Nupro would be okay to use for a trace nutrient supply but it wouldn’t completely balance the meals. You’re going to want to be sure to add a source of vitamin e and vitamin d (I use cod liver oil for vitamin d). You’re going to want to add some ground nuts/seeds for manganese (I use a combination of sprouted pumpkin seeds/sunflower seeds/flax/chia). I think it’s a good idea to feed tinned oysters once in awhile as they’re a great source of trace minerals like zinc, copper and selenium. I’m also an advocate of small amounts (10% – 20%) of fruits and veggies (I most often use organic greens, butternut squash, broccoli, cauliflower and berries – be sure to puree) for antioxidants and kefir or yogurt for probiotics. Cage-free eggs are a great source of omega 3’s, have a great amino acid profile and will contain some of the b vitamins, vitamin d and vitamin e – I recommend feeding eggs at least once a week. I mix in various fresh herbs like parsley, garlic and cilantro. I also add coconut oil and apple cider vinegar to every batch. The most important thing to keep in mind is that variety is key!

If you are looking for a supplement to “balance” the diets, I’d recommend Steve Brown’s See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix. It makes AAFCO compliant meals and it’s really cheap in comparison to other pre-mixes plus there’s a quantity discount when you order several bags at one. I don’t use pre-mixes too often but it’s my favorite to use when I do. He also advocates adding various fresh ingredients (up to 20%) so you have the freedom to customize a bit while being assured that the dogs are getting a balanced meal. If you want to make your own supplement – buying the ingredients separately definitely is the cheapest route. The pre-made supplements like Nupro are much more expensive. Check out Swanson’s, they sell all the ingredients you’d need and everything is super cheap and you can often get bulk packages (I use a lot of the Starwest Botanicals items in my whole food supplement).

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi sippmanjr –

I personally prefer raw (my dogs eat a homemade raw diet) and in terms of the best – I believe raw is as good as it gets. I would also give preference to dehydrated, canned and freeze-dried foods over kibble. However assuming you’re looking for a kibble, if I had to choose my “top 5” they would probably be (in no particular order): Annamaet (Aqualuk, Salcha or Ultra), Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, Nature’s Variety Instinct (LID Turkey or Rabbit), Wellness CORE Puppy or Earthborn (Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast). I love Orijen foods and their new large breed puppy formula is an improvement over the previous formula (the old formula was way too high in calcium) but it’s still slightly high in calcium for me to recommend. Don’t feel that you need to pick one food and stick with it, rotating is healthier and it’s good to get puppies accustomed to a rotational diet as soon as possible. If you feed kibble, I’d also recommend topping the kibble with a quality raw, canned or dehydrated food or healthy fresh foods (like eggs, tinned sardines, lean meats, or plain yogurt or kefir) as often as possible.

[princeismine]

Hello,

I have a three year old Frenchie who I need feeding advice for. I have been feeding her Taste of the Wild Kibble (TOW) for the past year and a half or so with no problems. I don’t think a healthy diet consists of kibble only, so a few months ago I added Small Batch Raw Patties (SB) to her diet (gradually over a week). She was getting TOW in the morning and SB in the evening for about a month or so then she started to get an upset stomach. She’d wake me in the middle of the night to go out and eat grass (feverishly) and sometimes her stomach would gurgle VERY loudly. I stopped giving her SB and went back to feeding her TOW only and no problems. Within the last month, I introduced Answers Raw Goat Milk (probiotic), which I’d give her just before giving her the kibble with no problems. About a week ago, I reintroduced SB (again, gradually) and last night and EARLY this morning she cried to go outside and began eating grass. Her stomach was also gurgling quite loudly. I’m really trying to avoid feeding her a diet of kibble only, but am at a loss as to what brand(s) of raw, dehydrated or moist foor to try next. Any suggestions from breeders or owners who have Frenchies that are doing well with their food would be GREATLY appreciated. Please note, I don’t have the time to cook her meals, so I’m looking for a pre-packaged suggestion.

Thank you!

Heidi

[Molzy]

Awesome, thanks. I wi definitely give it a try. I have a dog who I think needs a more liquid diet, I have him on canned food now but would prefer to support a company like honest kitchen. Eventual goal is raw, but might not be affordable at the moment. I’ll give the thrive a shot once he is doing ok for a month.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’m like Sandy, I group dehydrated/freeze-dried/air-dried all into the same category.

I find that freeze-dried foods tend to not rehydrate well – the only exception being Grandma Lucy’s.

As the for best dehydrated type foods, my favorites are The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s and Ziwipeak. I also really like Addiction’s dehydrated in terms of ingredients and digestibility (for my crew it digested better than a lot of other brands I tried, poor digestibility is a common problem with dehydrated foods) but if you feed Addiction I’d highly recommend mixing it with a high protein canned or raw food because the protein levels are too low for my tastes. I also like Wysong’s Uncanny but it’s ridiculously expensive and as far as feeding as an exclusive diet, I don’t believe it’s complete and balanced (could be a good mix in for a lower protein food like Addiction though!).

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Pugsonraw]

I took my two pugs that have seasonal allergies off their daily Benadryl dosage. They are normally quite itchy year round despite eating a raw diet daily, immune supplements, super greens, anchovy and sardine oil, coconut oil, probiotics and digestive enzymes… etc. I really check out all products and ingredients before giving them anything new.

Decided to try to Skin-eze for them, not really expecting to get any major results and it seems to be working. They have been on it for about a week and definitely less itchy than when taking Benadryl.

I was looking to see if any of the ingredients are harmful. It appears they are all natural, but wanted to get some opinions.

Here is the link…. http://www.allergicpet.com/products/skin_eze.

[bruno]

I think you may be interested in a formula that would be a compromise between the raw diet and commercial (kibble) pet food. I have one that is Brown rice, pearl barley, dehydrated raw carrots, red & green peppers, brocolli, garlic including a packet of high-end vitamins and minerals. This one takes the time to cook a pot of rice (20-30 min), you add your choice of fresh meat and it makes about 2 weeks worth of food. The other formula is Rolled Oats plus the veggies and so forth. This one takes one-minute to hydrate. Both would eliminate dealing with raw meat and eliminates all the cons of processed food–meat contamination, lack of nutrients from processing and questionable ingredients. If you or anyone is interested in seeing/reading about these formulas please visit California Gold
P.S. I disagree with the responder that stated that raw veggies are not good for dogs. I haven’t had any problems with any of my dog’s customers in over 13 years and raw is good!

[Melissaandcrew]

Okay, question for the raw feeders here. I was out pricing meats today at various supplier throughout the area, and they all seem to be big on selling chicken necks for dogs. I will not give whole bones as I have too many dogs to feel confident that someone will not gylp it down just to try to steal anothers. So, can these somehow be utilized as a ground product? For example, Sandy had posted a starter recipe and it said 5.25 lbs chicken with bone. What cut of chicken? Can the necks be used as this? And, would that suffice as the “bone/calcium” source in the diet, or would a calcium supplement still be needed?

[Cyndi]

I have a question for any raw feeder that would like to help. I have had Bailey on raw for just about 5 months now. I give her raw garlic and use different flea sprays, Mercola’s being one of them, so I’m 99% sure she doesn’t have fleas. I check her all the time too. It’s been maybe over a month now, not sure, but she’s been scratching and biting at herself and licking her front legs. The leg licking is like frantic leg licking for like 5-10 seconds and then she’s done and goes about her business. The itching and scratching isn’t constantly and just about every time she does it, I check her over and I find nothing. So, I’m thinking she maybe allergic to something she eats. In the mornings I give her the ground beef, ground tripe and ground organs for 2 or 3 days and do whole carcass ground rabbit for 2 or 3 days, with either sardines or eggs or veggie blend baby food alternated & right now I’m using the See Spot Live Longer mix on the beef days. For dinners I rotate between a chicken back/feet/heart/gizzards/liver or turkey neck/gizzards or a large rabbit piece & a rabbit head.

So, I know how a typical “elimination diet” goes, but I’m wondering if I just cut out something from her diet for a while, if that would work? & what should I start with? Is chicken the likely culprit here? I wish I could pinpoint when her itching and biting started, but I have no clue. Any help, as usual, is greatly appreciated!

[Melissaandcrew]

Have a quick question re See spot live longer. Now that winter time is coming to NY, I expect to have more time on my hands, lol, and think I will finally try some premixes and catch up on reading some home made raw diet books. Question is how much to order..Can any one tell me what the recc feeding guidelines are? I mean after mixed with the one lb of meat, how much am I feeding each dog? Please and thank you: )

[pugmomsandy]

Are you saying you want to switch them to a boneless meat & veggie diet? Because meat & veggies is not a good diet for long term use. If you do just want to feed meat and veggies, then I would suggest the recipe book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Karen Becker/Beth Taylor. It has boneless recipes (meats and organs) and gives you the amount of calcium supplement or bone meal to use along with a vitamin mix recipe. Your dog needs a source of calcium if you’re not feeding bones. Another option is to use a premix where you just have to add boneless meat and some oil like Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer, The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s.

[Jens]

A quick question. I add a fair amount of fresh meat as topper to their kibble. The two pups are almost 1 year old and I was thinking to switch to raw. I guess they would probably need about 3.5% to% of their body weight in meat. Does it matter what meat you feed? With that I mean the weight including a bone or so. Although I am a very good cook, I would prefer to keep it simple by just cutting up the meat for them. All meat has roughly the same calorie content and I was going to add maybe 20% of veggies to the food, like peas, cucumber, carrots or apples. Any thoughts?

[Chip]

I have two dogs, both German Shorthair mixes… one is an older male (11 years old), the other a younger (5 years) female. I love them both very much, both were shelter/rescue dogs. When we adopted the younger dog, we switched from feeding her Hill’s Science Diet (which is what we were sent home with from the shelter) to some sort of Purina Dry Kibble, since she wouldn’t eat the Hill’s. Since then and after finding this website (my knowledge about dog food and their ingredients greatly increased), her menu evolved from the low quality kibble to a mixture of Honest Kitchens dehydrated raw food (a company that I love) mixed with Blue Buffalo Freedom. I consider both of these foods to have above average to excellent ingredients and I feel good when I buy it for my two dogs. The problem is is that they both have very sensitive stomachs… when we started with the HK and BB it seemed to FINALLY fix the problem with terrible diarrhea that they both were experiencing with all the foods we tried (Castor and Pollux, Nature’s Recipe, and so on). Their bowl movements (I feel strange talking about this) were FINALLY healthy… fluffy yet firm, regular, didn’t stink. It was a miracle. Unfortunately, after about two years of eating various styles/flavors of HK mixed with BB, the younger dog “Jessie” decided that she absolutely didn’t want to eat it anymore. I got tired of preparing it only to have to dump it out (it’s very expensive) and then wash her dish (as I did after every meal since it’s a part raw diet). So, we tried some different brands thinking that it would add a bit of diversity to what they were eating. We went with Wellness Complete Health kibble and canned but soon found out that the diarrhea had returned (we introduced these foods slowly). We tried going back to the old food but she couldn’t shake the diarrhea (the older fella was having some problems as well, but not nearly extreme). We finally took her into the vet, which I dread doing because I know exactly what’s coming… a fecal exam (which is always negative), a bill for $100, and a lecture about how the food I feed them isn’t quality/adequate because it wasn’t “formulated” by veterinarians and pet nutritionists (in their words) as Hill’s Science Diet is. I don’t have a problem with giving the HSD Prescription i/d gastrointestinal a try… my problem is that the ingredient list is full of low quality foods and chemicals, yet they charge more per can/bag than the food with (what I consider to be) high quality ingredients that I was feeding my dogs. I’m sick of being treated as though I’m being insolent because I actually question what it is specifically about Hill’s that is supposed to calm my dog’s stomach. Is it the corn? The iodized salt? The food coloring? I know it sounds as though I’m being snippy right now, but this has been an ongoing problem as I’ve brought the dogs to the same vet in the past few years every now and then with small bouts of stomach problems and am told the same thing every time and mad to feel as though I’m an ignorant and irresponsible pet owner for not switching to Hill’s and I’m sick of it. I don’t have any other options to switch to a different vet, so that won’t solve anything. It has been three days and there hasn’t been any improvement so far on the HSD and, sorry it has taken me so loooonnnnngggg to get to the point, here is my question: Does anyone have an alternative to HSD i/d that actually has quality ingredients? Or, does anyone have any useful advice about what our next course of action should be? I thought I read something in one of the comment sections a long time ago about how German Shorthair Pointers are sensitive to a certain ingredient that is fairly common in most dog foods… does anyone know anything about that subject? And, is it just me, or do veterinarians actually know anything about dog nutrition, or do they just espouse what they are told by the salespeople from Hill’s? I don’t doubt that Hill’s probably does make some important prescription foods that certain dogs need, but the i/d just looks like crap to me. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

[LisaLynn]

I am adopting a mini aussie pup and will be bringing him home next week (he will be 9 weeks). I’ve had standard aussies, border collies, shelties and lab mixes in the past and I also have a 4 yr old chi but always bought food that was suggested by the person/breeder I adopted the pup from. Now it’s been a while since I had a pup and I want the best for him! I don’t swallow what vets recommend anymore. But I am so confused about nutrition; namely breed-specific percentages of protein, fat, carb, sodium content and calcium. I’m considering mixing Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (Dry) with *Abady granular (*not rated on this site and I understand why), some occasional raw meats, yogurt and organic antioxidants. Could someone please explain in simple terms what the appropriate ratio is for a mini aussie (appx 30 lbs adult size) and a 7 lb adult chi as far as dietary percentages? Thank you for any feedback!

[Molzy]

Thanks Patty. I guess I had been thinking I would completely eliminate kibble, but perhaps I will leave a little in, just to give us that option when traveling or boarding. But it wouldn’t be 50%, so I guess I’ll still need to balance the raw.

I ordered two of the book I see mentioned on here a lot, the canine ancestral diet and the dr. Becker’s one. They should arrive Friday, so I know what I’ll be doing this weekend!

For the premixed, would I just buy ground meat at the store then? Without any organs or bone?

Thanks again, sorry for all the questions!

[Chuck]

I think for now I am going to mix something like primal patties and her Wellness CORE kibble and start to add in things like people suggested, chicken necks etc until I feel more comfortable making meals for her.

Does that sound like it would be an adequate diet / nutrients in the interim over just dry kibble?

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by Chuck.

[theBCnut]

I understand that for areas that have affected deer, you have to be careful what parts you feed raw, so do research before using anything. I have heard that it is brain, spinal cord, and some organs that you have to be leary of, but I really don’t know for sure. The Honest Kitchen Preference, See Spot Live Longer, and Urban Wolf are all premixes that are good, and I believe that you can add cooked meat to them as well, if there is a worry about your venison. Darwin’s and Aunt Jenny’s have great commercial raw diets. Check out Grandma Lucy’s products too. If you want to order grinds that are not balanced and add your own stuff, Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore are great.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by theBCnut.

[Molzy]

Hello all,

I am considering switching my dogs to a raw diet. We have two 1.5-year-old Australian Cattle Dog Mixes. They are both rescue dogs. We adopted LoJack last October, and Quincy came home with us in July. Both of them came to us eating Science Diet, which we pretty much immediately threw out. I worked in a high-end pet store for years, and I am kind of a food snob when it comes to my pets. My cat, Ralph, has been on Nature’s Variety frozen chicken for over a year now, and does amazingly on it (for him, it has helped with his urinary tract infections). The dogs have eaten a variety of Nutrisource Grain-Free Salmon, Pure-Vita or Merrick dry kibble. My boyfriend and I are big on “Eat Local” and both of these companies seemed pretty good for commercial dog food. Now that we have graduated from grad school, we can start entertaining the idea of paying a little more to feed raw. When we just had LoJack he would also get raw meaty bones once in a while for his teeth, we haven’t tried giving Quincy those due to some digestive issues we’ve been struggling with.

Anyways, I am thinking of originally starting with a pre-made raw, and possibly slowly adding in some other stuff. My boyfriend hunts, so hopefully we will have some venison this year for them, and we also live in the country so there is the possibility of contacting local butchers for organ meats and stuff. We already own a hand grinder for the meat (though we may invest in an electric one if we end up going with raw!).

Anyways, what are your recommendations for pre-made diets? At this point, we would like to stick with a grind because of Quincy’s issues with chunkier food (I want to make sure that raw works before trying chunks, then slowly add chunks in to make sure we don’t cause issues). I am considering doing Nature’s Variety since it is balanced for cats and dogs, which would be nice, but it is also a little expensive, so I figured I would see if anyone else has any suggestions. I would also consider a pre-mix with ground meat.

One last question – can they have venison bones? We saved a bunch from the deer we got last year and froze them, but I got worried about chronic wasting disease, so we have never tried them. They are thinner than the beef/bison bones we normally feed, so I worried about him swallowing chunks as well.

Thanks!
Molly, LoJack and Quincy (and Ralph the cat)

[pugmomsandy]

1. Is it better to get a premade mix of raw food online or buy meats from the supermarket or meat market? Or is it better to have a mix?

As a newbie to raw, I think it would be better for you to feed a food that is complete and balanced whether that is commercial frozen raw like Nature’s Variety, Primal, Bravo, Stella & Chewy’s, Darwins, and others, or dehydrated/freeze dried raw (but more expensive) food like Orijen freeze dried, Primal, Stella & Chewy’s. Meat by itself is not a good diet. For beginners, I would buy a commercial raw or use a Premix such as Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer, Grandma Lucy’s, The Honest Kitchen. You add meat and some oil and that’s usually it. No additional vitamins needed. You can make these in advanced in big batches and freeze in serving sizes or a couple days worth in one bag/container. You can feed up to 20% of an unbalanced food without having to worry about additional vits/minerals. For example, topping kibble with some meat or scrambled egg (but not more than 20% of the meal). As you become more comfortable with raw you can give homemade a try but be sure to use a recipe book.

2. Is ground or whole better? Your dog might like the texture of some chunks, versus ground. But in any case, raw meat has enzymes that also helps keep teeth clean. The ripping of the flesh and tendons from the bone cleans the teeth too. I have small dogs so I use a coarse ground. My dogs don’t have a preference for meat sizes. They eat it all.

3. I keep seeing people talking about feeding bones, including chicken bones… I was always told that chicken bones are dangerous? This is going to be the one that the hardest to get my wife on board with.

Raw bones are edible. The cooked bones are dry and splinter. Also there are recreational bones versus consumable bones. Most small animals can be consumed whole (chicken, rabbit, quail, turkey). But dense, weight bearing bones from larger animals are for gnawing only (marrow bones/leg bones). For heavy chewers, they can break teeth. For instance, my small dogs eat chicken legs, turkey and duck necks and feet and pork baby back ribs. They gnaw on beef/bison rib bones and marrow bones/femur for the enjoyment and it keeps their teeth clean. I feed these outside and don’t worry about cleanup when the weather is nice. You can train your dog to eat bones in the house on a towel, blanket or tarp. This winter, I’ll be feeding my small dogs in a crate or I could feed them on the bathroom tile and mop.

4. Do you need to add supplements to these meals? If so are they included in the premade mixes or am I adding them?

If you use a complete and balanced commercial premix, no additional supplements are necessary. Although there are a lot of people who give whole food supplements like supergreen foods (chlorella, kelp, barley grass, etc), bee pollen, and herbs, a complete vitamin E.

5. What is the best site for ordering?
I’ve heard Chewy.com is good. I’ve always used Petflow and amazon.

6. Does someone have a schedule or process I can literally follow to the letter?
Sorry, I am sure this has been answered over and over again but I would really appreciate the help. I am not too concerned about the cost as Wellness and Core are not cheap, however if I can pre-make these and feed her in the morning because we are often in a rush and it’s so hard to get her to eat kibble before we leave.

At my house, they eat raw if I have it thawed out. If not, they get other foods (kibble, canned, freeze dried). Darwins comes in convenient packaging and serving sizes and most commercial products come in patties or small bite sizes or chubs (which are the least convenient for me). You just have to remember to thaw! You can put 3 days worth out to thaw in the frig. I also use dehydrated foods (The Honest Kitchen, Addiction) where I just add water and let sit. I make some ahead of time and put it in the frig. But these are not raw.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Molzy]

Thanks for the advice everyone! So far he’s been ok on canned foot, I am currently working on switching him over to Chicken Soup cans, and if that works I will start considering raw.

Aimee, I have heard that it may be seizure related, or allergy induced seizures. I will ask my vet about it. I’ve found I can talk him out of an attack if I catch him at the beginning. The wet diet seems to be helping a lot.

Thanks again for your advice!

[losul]

PrincessPiper,

If you happen to live in one of the areas where chronic wasting disease (a prion disease similar to BSE in cows or scrapie in sheep) is prevalent in wild deer/elk/moose populations, as a precaution, you might want to avoid feeding (or eating yourself) these tissues- brain, spinal cord, eyes, spleen, tonsils, lymph nodes, no matter raw or cooked.

Its now spread to parts of at least 21 states and 2 Canadian provinces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_wasting_disease

[Hound Dog Mom]

Cut it open and squeeze it out. Use gloves – you may also want a gas mask. 🙂 Then just be sure to freeze it for a few weeks prior to feeding.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi PrincessPiper –

XCaliber isn’t a balanced food but could safely be fed for a few meals a week if being fed in conjunction with a balanced diet. As long as the fat level doesn’t cause loose stools and she isn’t prone to pancreatitis it should bother her. I’d recommend checking out Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” if you’re interested in making homemade raw meals – it contains easy to make, AAFCO compliant recipes.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi sparkysgirl –

If you’re feeding one meal per day of a balanced commercial food I think it’s fine to feed a muscle meat/organ meat/bone blend (called a “grind”) for the other meal. If you want to feed an entirely raw diet you would need to either feed a balanced commercial product or learn how to properly balance a “grind” or completely homemade meal.

[theBCnut]

I’m not HDM, but…
When the deer/elk is being gutted, you want to seperate the stomach from the intestines as cleanly as possible. That means it is better to lose part of the stomach to keep any contamination from the inestines out of it. After you have the intestines removed, seperate the esophagus, then you can cut open the stomach and lightly rinse the insides. You can feed the esophagus, the trachea, lungs, heart, liver, kidneys, spleen, basically everything that comes out of there except the intestines.

[PrincessPiper]

HDM…I have a question about collecting the tripe. Our family has 4 elk permits and our granddaughter has an elk and deer permit. God willing we will all harvest and I would like to save all the good parts of the gut but I have no idea how to collect the tripe!! Do you just cut the stomach open? LOL…my hubby said, “good luck with that and don’t even ask me to do it!” I have a fairly weak gag reflex so I’m sure I will probably puke when I do it but I’m willing to try!!

[theBCnut]

PrincessPiper
Don’t worry about freezer burn unless your dog does. Just because it is freezer burned doesn’t mean it is bad, it just changes the taste and dogs don’t seem to mind that. Partial defrosting, repackaging, and refreezing is common practice among raw feeders.

Sully’sMom
Canned tripe is not raw since the canning process requires high heat, so it loses some of it’s positive traits. But the canned green tripe is still very smelly, so it makes an excellent topper. Some of them are not balanced, so they should not be more than 20% of the diet.

[Molzy]

Hello! I’ll apologize in advance for the length of this post.

We adopted an Australian Cattle Dog (Quincy) at the end of July. He is a year-and-a-half old neutered male, and we were told he was given up due to not being housebroken. I am beginning to suspect that the real reason may have be what I can only describe as his gulping disorder.

For the first two weeks at home he was totally fine. We switched him from Science Diet to Merrick Lamb and Rice, which he gets twice a day. We did have to board him about two weeks after adopting him due to a family wedding, and it was after this that he started his first episode of gulping/swallowing. Usually at night, he will begin frantically swallowing and gulping. Quincy will frantically search the house for carpet fibers to pull up, and will eventually vomit and then re-eat his food if we don’t get to it in time. This went on for about a week the first time – we brought him to the vet, they said he looked fine, and that it was probably just all the changes in his life. I did give him a gas-x one night, because he was swallowing so much air I was concerned about bloat. He ate some carpet this first time, when I fell asleep with him out of his kennel (he normally sleeps in bed with us, but when he is having these bouts I have learned to kennel him so that he can’t get into anything). He threw the carpet up about 3 days after that.

At that point, we thought he just had a sensitive stomach. So, when we switched his food again (our other dog has an iron stomach, and had done well with us rotating food, so we already had a bag of grain-free salmon from Nutrisource), we weren’t all surprised when the symptoms started up again. This time I gave him a couple of doses of pepto-bismol to ease his tummy troubles, and about 6 days later he stopped vomiting. I should note – when he vomits, it seems associated with these bursts of gulping/swallowing/licking. I thought it was him having an upset stomach and panicking about it, but the vet thought it was odd that he is willing to eat his vomit right away, and that a nauseous dog wouldn’t do that? I am beginning to think that the actual issue is the gulping/swallowing, and the vomiting may be a side effect of that, rather than the other way around.

I switched him to rice and boiled chicken, and he seemed to get better. We put him back on Merrick (chicken and rice this time, because they were out of lamb and rice), and he did fine for about a week. Then last week, he threw up again (he had had a minor bout of swallowing, but nothing like he normally gets). We fasted him for 36 hours, and brought him to the vet. Again, his stool and activity is normal. The vet gave him an anti-nausea shot, and sent us home with some anti-nausea pills and canned science diet ID (for gastro-intestinal health). He was fine for about 3 days, and then last night had one of his worst bouts of swallowing/gulping yet. He didn’t throw up at all (that I know of, I did fall asleep for a little while), but did try to eat a rope toy. I kenneled him for the night, and this morning he ate grass like crazy.

His bouts tend to start at night when we’re going to bed, and he works himself up into a frenzy. Once it starts, it tends to last for multiple days, and kenneling him seems to work to calm him down a little. Our other dog (LoJack) has been totally fine through all of this. They are never outside without my supervision, and he doesn’t get human food (except for the two occasions he has stolen it off of the counter). I haven’t been feeding treats for a few weeks now, but tonight had to give him some zukes at training class. The only other thing would be that he did start HeartGuard and Frontline, but both of those started after his initial attacks. One last thing I should mention is that he plays a LOT with my other dog, and they usually wrestle and play tug of war every night before bed, but will often stop for >2 hours before going to bed. I haven’t felt like there was any correlation between them playing and one of these attacks. When we walk he is on a gentle leader or harness, but he is on his collar when on his tie-out in the yard. I remove the dog’s collars when they’re wrestling so that they don’t hurt each other.

Has anyone dealt with similar symptoms? What did you do? My Internet searches have found that others have this issue but I haven’t found anyone who has solved it. We will probably do blood work and an X-ray next to rule out anything normal, but I want opinions from others on possible nutritional changes that could help. I refuse to switch to science diet unless I absolutely must. I’m considering trying raw, but currently scared of anything that might upset him, since I’ve been cleaning vomit for the past month it seems! I do natures variety raw with my cat, and our other dog has been on grain free nutrisource or merrick for the past year.

Thanks for any advice, I appreciate it!

[BlackandBlue]

Ooh nasty anal gland problems (thank goodness my dog hasn’t gone there). For now I’m going to “bask in the glory” (thx Freeholdhound for that quote) of Wellness Whitefish & Sweet Potatoes. Never thought I’d say that about a 3 1/2 star dog food. Cause I can’t tell you how many food trials I’ve done with my dog, including raw medallions, dehydrated, and homemade. And you’re right Somebodysme, peas could be a problem for my dog and food with peas will be avoided.
At the vet, they suggested my dog go back on Royal Canine Potato and Whitefish veterinary diet. Yes, my dog did OK on it, except for really goopey eyes that disgusted my kids (caused by white potatoes). So, I refused the food and found the Wellness Whitefish. Anyway, there’s some Royal Canine Veterinary Diets that are only available in Canada that may work for my dog. Such as the RC Catfish kibble. I don’t know why they don’t sell that in the US? (Sorry I’m stooping so low as to be seeking out Royal Canine dog food but I’m in ear infection fallout.)

[theBCnut]

Then about 12 oz of raw. Plan on having to adjust that amount. Actually what I do is feed the amount or raw that suits me and adjust the kibble up or down. I find that easier than having a few ounces of raw left in the fridge. It’s about cup of kibble to a half pound of raw. It’s not anything like exact, since your raw may have more or less fat on any given day and your kibble may have more or less calories than mine. I hope I’ve made this clear as mud, I mean clearer for you. LOL!!

BTW, my favorite book is Steve Brown’s “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” and my second is Dr Karen Becker’s book that I alway say the title wrong, something like “Real Foods for Healthy Dogs and Cats” Sorry, I’m not at the bookshelf for the exact title, but you should be able to find it. I got mine on Amazon, I believe. Oops, nevermind, you were asking about other premixes, not books, that was from the OP.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by theBCnut.

[bodzio]

We just got our 10 week old Eskie from the breeder and needles to say, he’s on Purina Pro program :(. I have been reeding these forums for information about nutritional needs of our new family addition and must say you folks are amazing with the amount of usefull information.

I had a couple of dogs in the past and never fed kibble, but rather raw/scraps/veggies to them. but that was 20 years ago or so. this time I am really looking into well balanced nutritionaly raw food diet.

Could you please recommend the best way of weening our Eskie of purina and should I still provide some kibble to balance his diet with raw food?

[albertboh]

We only use raw-food with our bulldog now. She was having a ton of issues with the grain-filled dog foods that my mom typically bought her (gas, bloating, infections/rashes). I tried all sorts of stuff to change it up too, like adding probiotic supplements to her diet, as well as digestive enzymes. There are a few brands out there are specifically for pets and not just human-grade stuff. We also mixed yogurt in with her dog food helped to help with some yeast issues issues we had. It’s our own special “cocktail” but it seems to work for her brilliantly. It took us forever to find the right mix, but now we are thrilled and she seems much happier. :O)

[BeachMiles]

We are heading out on a 10 day trip, including cross country air travel. Gracie is on a frozen raw diet. We pack it in DRY ICE.

I have found , through experience , that you can carry a cooler with up to 5 pounds of Dry Ice on board.