[Rox B]

I realize this post is old, but I wanted to comment anyway for those who see it and become fearful of feeding raw. There is a lot of information missing here to determine why this dog got sick. I have seen this happen before with other people, and the problem is not with the raw diet. Here are some reasons for failure…People are feeding kibble and raw food together which can cause illness. Pancreatitis is from eating too much fat and is rare in dogs, it can be caused by underlying issues or a high fatty meal. Many commercial pre-packaged meals contain organs. Organs should not be fed when transitioning from kibble to raw. ONE PROTEIN should have been introduced first. Too bad this person did not have a holistic vet to help teach her how to feed raw properly. Completes have organs which are a fatty and a no, no when starting raw. I prepare my own raw food and follow PMRD guidelines 80/10/5/5. This way I know how much my GSD is eating in the way of raw meat, raw bone, raw liver and raw secreting organ. As far as salmonella poisoning I am going to say I don’t believe it. This dear person told their non-supportive, non-raw friendly, conventional vet, that she was feeding raw and so he assumed the dog had salmonella poisoning. I’ve heard this many times before.

[Cotons mom]

I am looking for a well balanced, easy to make raw diet recipe for my cotons. They both get primal, S&C, Vital and I want to learn to make it myself. Suggestions on where to get whatever supplements that need to be added would be also be great. I have a meat grinder so at least I have one thing going toward this adventure ;.))

Thanks

[Susan]

Hi Debbie, sounds like Environment Allergies, pollen, dust, trees, mites etc have you tried an antihistamine? & wiping him down when he comes back inside? here’s the raw diet my boy was put on, I went thru a Animal Naturopath Jacqueline Rudan in Australia she does consults over the phone & Skype, first I just sent her a few emails asking for help & what could be wrong with Patch, she emailed me back & said we need to strengthen Patches stomach his immune system… Patch was put on the Maintenance Diet, he has IBD & Skin Allergies or you can scroll down & click on the Skin Allergy Diet, pick 2 proteins, feed 1 meat for breakfast & the other protein for dinner pick 2-4 veggies & 1-2 fruits, make sure you peel & cut up all veggies & fruit then put thru a blender & then I was freezing 2 spoon sections of the veggie/fruit mix, I was adding 1/2 capsule human Probiotic to each meal, the probiotic was gluten & dairy free, 1/2 teaspoon DigestaVite Plus 100 & Jacqueline omega 3,6 9 oil…I added all this very slowly into his diet cause of his IBD, for a 18kg -30lb dog, I was told to feed 1 cup raw (protein) twice a day, I picked low fat meat, kangaroo & 2 spoons blended veggies/fruit twice a day, I picked chicken for dinner I picked broccoli, celery, zucchini, apple & carrot…..now I cook this diet minus any bones, Patch kept regurgitating & burping up the raw diet.. 🙁
Is he taking omega 3, 6 & 9 oil? a lady from a Face Book Group “Dogs issues and other information support group” contacted Jacqueline & her dog was lacking omega 3, 6 & 9 in her diet.. http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html

The Face book group “Dogs issues, allergies and other information support group” Petra one of the Admin ladies has a Beagle with bad allergies as well….

[Debbie K]

I have a 9 year old beagle diagnosed with and currently being treated for hypothyrionism. He has also been suffering from allergies. We’ve tried allergy shot that no longer work and tried changing to different kinds of dry dog food. Now we’re trying the raw diet. He loves it, however I’m unsure of what protein and or grains he should be eating. He is miserable and I’m trying everything I can think of. I appreciate any help.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Craig,

Have you been giving your dog some sort of multi-vitamin supplement since you acquired him?

I have to say, the diet you posted in your other thread concerns me quite a bit, but I’ll post my thoughts there.

If you’re feeding a complete and balanced diet, you don’t really need a multi-vitamin. Some folks like to add whole foods as supplements such as: lean, unseasoned meats from your dinner; pureed dark leafy greens; eggs, either raw or lightly cooked; some cottage cheese; kefir; etc. These are mostly considered toppers. You could also add a fish oil supplement, preferable salmon or krill.

[bob b]

Hi im new here and just had a quick question. I’m thinking about getting a Boston terrier and honestly haven’t done much research on dog care yet (so I don’t know too much about dog diet and all) but there’s a few things from what iv read that I feel I want to incorporate into my dogs diet. First I want some of the food to be raw. Also im thinking of rotating my dogs diet daily with different dogs food in order to add variety. Lastly my main goal is to feed food with no synthetic ingredients at all(which is hard because from what iv seen even the best foods are loaded with synthetic vitamins and minerals). Furthermore the only foods Iv been able to find that fit into the above criteria are:carna4,Nrg raw one, answers straight+ maybe urban wolf, and smack raw(I know natures logic and natural variety are also okay also but im going to avoid these because of some controversy about montmorillonite clay. So my plan is to rotate between some of the above foods daily in order to insure it gets better nutrition. So does this sound okay for my diet plan?

[Coonhound Mama]

I’m sorry to hear about this 🙁 I would strongly recommend trying bone broth for your girl while she’s still having issues with nausea and vomiting. It’s got many beneficial vitamins and minerals in it that will be easily digestible to your dog. You can buy bone broth from some specialty pet stores already made (popular brand Honest Kitchen makes some) but it’s really easy to do yourself! It’s not a complete and balanced diet, but starting your dog back onto regular food isn’t always easy and this is a solid, nutritious start. Regarding raw, I disagree with the previous poster in that raw isn’t good for a dog in this condition. I think you may just want to keep her fat intake to a minimum. Darwins is notorious these days for high fat levels so if you’re looking for a brand with a lower fat content, try Natures Variety Instinct Frozen Raw.

Here’s a link to bone broth!

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/reasons-your-dog-love-bone-broth/

[anonymously]

What does your vet recommend? I would keep her diet simple. My senior does well on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea (canned and dry) 3-4 small meals a day with water added, kibble soaked overnight.

Homemade diet recipe and tips: http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

PS: I would not give a dog with the issues you describe, raw food, in any way, shape or form. Especially not a senior.

[jewel0247]

Hi all,
My doggy had a pancreatitis episode 2 weeks ago and was hospitalized for a day. She made a good recovery. Placed her on bland diet sweet potato and puréed chicken breast and transitioned to raw primal venison (she loved it! She was on darwins before). We ended up at the vet Monday with vomiting… She vomited undigested food 6 hrs after her dinner :/ and then vomited several more times even water the next day. The vet thought she ate too fast or she maybe was over fed? I think her pancreas is still upset and she couldn’t digest the food or too high in fat?

I’m at a loss what to give her now. We’re back on sweet potato and puréed chicken doing fine (of course on nausea med). Trying a sample of zeal here and there but she’s not crazy about it. She’s a very picky dog.. Will go on hunger strikes and vomit bile. :/ scared to give her primal.

Looked for homemade recipes but it seems complicated and I’m not sure what to portion out for a 12 lb dog :/.

Appreciate any input!!

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Kelly,

I’m afraid I would not be much help as far as balancing food nutrients requirements with homemade diets, but you may be able to buy a bag of freeze dried raw food (guaranteed to be balanced) just for these certain times. I don’t know if this is any easier, but I use premade raw when we travel (Stella and Chewy’s and Nature’s Variety) simply because it stores easier than a whole mess of odds and ends does. Of course that doesn’t eliminate the issue of cold storage. Check out some of the 5 star freeze dried bag foods though if you are looking for convenience.

[Jonathan S]

I’m up against a similar issue as I’m getting one of my dogs into K9 Search and Rescue. When/if we deploy I’m expected to pack 3 days of food for myself and my dog. Obviously my frozen raw mix isn’t going to work with this scenario.

I’m still researching, but my intent is to find a good, freeze dried raw food (I found one that comes in flake form, so I think I’ll be going with that) that can be reconstituted quickly with water. That’ll keep the weight down in the pack as well.

Just remember, as long as you keep it to a quality food that you trust, you shouldn’t have to worry too much about variance from your dogs regular food as (I’m assuming) you won’t be changing their diet up for a really long time.

Finally, and this is just my two cents, it seems to be easier for adult dogs to switch back and forth on food, while puppies need to be transitioned over a week or so. If it were me, I’d try to stay consistent until the pup is older, ie, no trips for a bit.

[Susan]

Hi Kim, when I rescued my boy 3 years ago he was weeing blood, he needed to be desexed within 1-5 days of receiving him, so when the rescue vet desexed him they did an ultra scan & the vet seen crystals, he was put on antibiotics & Royal Canine Vet Diet S/O Urinary wet tin food & dry Kibble for 6 weeks, he had to only eat the Royal Canine S/O wet & kibble for 6 weeks, so his crystal would dissolve, he had an ultra scan after 6 weeks & all the crystals had dissolved, then the vet said put him back on his normal diet, cause I had just rescued him I didn’t know what to feed him so I ended up contacting an Animal Naturopath cause he had other health problems…. Here’s her diets, it’s raw but I cooked the diet, minus any bones, if you scroll down click on the health diets he needs…. Diabetes diet & a weight reduction diet, work out the common foods between both diets & try feeding some cook meals for him, he will lose weight when he starts eating either a raw or cooked diet & the weight loss will help with his arthritis…Kibble isn’t good for bladder problems, wet foods are the better…… http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html

[Mom T]

I was given a 10+ yr. old, very neglected, St. Bernard/Husky mix male dog for Christmas! He is so sweet and fits well in our family. After a couple of vet visits he is overall healthy with a few issues being heartworms, severe flea allergy and mild hip dysplasia. He also roughly half his weight at 65 lbs.

The more I read, the more I am confused on how to best put weight on him. The vet recommended puppy food. With his age I am concerned about pancreas issues feeding him a high fat diet. What would you recommend for…
Wet and dry foods?
Additives to food such as raw eggs, oils?
Vitamins…Pettabs?

Thanks for your help!

[Jenn H]

I’m very sorry for your loss.
It sounds like he had a hemangiosarcoma. It’s a very very very sneaky disease. My 8 y/o GSD died from a hemangiosarcoma on his right aorta. And I have 2 friends who had dogs with it on their spleen as well.
The thing about this cancer is usually the bleeding of it that kills them, not the actual cancer cells.
SHEP (my 8 y/o) was being managed very well by the holistic treatment. It was the anesthesia that he had to have to be tapped that his heart couldn’t take.
My first friend whose boxer mix had this was put down a few days after diagnosis. I think he would’ve had a better outcome if she had a better vet and/or sought out a second opinion.
My other friend’s Rhodesian Ridgeback lived for years with his. She fed him a low carb high protein diet. Mainly dehydrated raw. He had to take Pepcid. She never did the surgery because of his age.
It’s a disease more commonly found in some breeds than others. GSDs tend to have it on right aorta. Having the niece of my dog who passed I am in constant fear that she will have the same fate.
My sympathies are with you. I know how devastating it is to lose a dog. Especially so suddenly.

[Howard J]

Good news. We received her blood work and her liver enzymes have dropped into normal range. Everything is excellent, except for slightly high calcium levels. Apparently she had colitis as well as bad bacteria in the small intestine, probably from the raw diet we were feeding her. They gave her Metronidazole and an anti-acid and she is doing better. Still feeding her chicken and rice/potatoes. We are going to to see a nutritionist on Monday.

[Natalie R]

Thank you both!

A friend offered today for us to borrow her vitamix to blend raw chicken after hearing about our problems. We plan to try out what you suggested, Coonhound Mama; it’s reassuring for us, too, that our dog isn’t the only one with trouble eating bones. I read some raw food vets say that it’s okay to give recreational bones like beef knuckles that still have meat attached for teeth-cleaning purposes. Our dog does very well with her deer antlers (doesn’t chew too vigorously and hurt herself), so we may add that to make up for lost jaw exercise and hygiene if grinding works out.

To anon, thanks for the resource! I don’t think grains will work for our girl because she reacts so badly to even oatmeal shampoo (we can feel how inflamed her skin becomes through her thick coat), but the bone meal guide is useful. Every dog is different, so I know some would thrive on that diet plan. I will bookmark it for its produce and vitamin references especially.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Natalie R.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Natalie R.

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Natalie R,

I am so sorry to hear of your issues but on some level it does comfort me to know that my dog (60 lb Coonhound) is not the only one who experiences great difficulty in digesting bone. Although it doesn’t provide any dental benefits, I would highly suggest moving your Westie’s diet over to a raw ground diet. I feel confident in doing this after many many attempts at feeding whole bone and having my dog vomit just the way you described with yours. Didn’t seem sick, didn’t seem abnormal, just seemed to vomit up bone. We have transitioned to fine and coarse ground raw chubs in every protein variety imaginable from Hare Today Gone Tomorrow (bone, meat, organ blends) and this seems to have cleared up nearly all of her issues. I would strongly advise checking this out for your dog too if you don’t want to compromise on the health benefits of raw. You’ll have to keep up with the teeth brushing with the loss of the RMBs, but other than that I think you will find a significant difference and improvement in GI upset and digestibility.

[Natalie R]

Thanks! Yes, we are aware of those issues and are keeping an eye out for discomfort or unusual behavior. So far, the vomiting I described was not alarming because she acted well before and after and we could easily figure out the cause and avoid it in the future.

We would like to exhaust our resources for raw before trying something else, and we refuse to give commercial dog food (even high quality stuff) after reading several scientific studies about it. We chose raw over cooked homemade food because bones provide calcium in what should be an easily digestible form. Since she does digest bones when she chews and doesn’t digest ground eggshell, we aren’t sure if we could use many alternative calcium sources for a cooked diet.

[anonymously]

I hope you will rethink the raw diet thing, raw doesn’t agree with all dogs.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
/forums/topic/rectal-issues/
Just a couple of examples.

[Natalie R]

Hello, everyone! I’ve had some trouble getting responses from other raw groups, so I though I would try here.

We started our nearly 7-year-old Westie on a raw diet about a month ago. She eats chicken thigh meat, occasional eggs (without shell because we dry and grind them sometimes and she doesn’t even digest THAT well), chicken wings, liver, gizzard, and veggies (the veggies aren’t included in her meal calculations and are purely extra. We have fed them to her since she was a puppy and know what she digests flawlessly).

She does not digest bones well. With wings, she will often have extremely mucusey poops with long chunks of undigested bone (she gulps). If we give her larger bones (drumsticks) every other day instead of small ones everyday, she vomits for 24 hours. We tried neck bones early into the raw feeding process, and she just threw up undigested bone, so we thought they were too dense.

She never seems ill until she vomits, her coat is softer than on kibble, and she has lots of energy, but we really don’t know what to do. I know vomiting is sometimes part of the process, but it doesn’t seem healthy to vomit two meals in a row because of one.

Does anyone have any advice? She’ll happy eat anything (except thawed liver – we have to give it frozen for textural reasons), so all suggestions are possible.

Thank you very much!

• This topic was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Natalie R.

[Susan]

Hi, have you joined the “Canine Pancreatitis Support ” group on face Book ? someone on the site might know good low fat wet tin foods with good ingredients cause I live Australia I don’t get a lot of the American foods, we get all the Well Pet range Wellness, Holistic Select, Eagle Pack, Earthborn Holistic range & all our Royal Canine Vet diets have different ingredients to the Americian Royal Canine vet diets the Australian R/C has a bit better ingredients cause we have very strict custom laws…..

My boy was eating theVet Diet Royal Canine Gastrointestinal Low Fat Kibble, but it has wheat & barley & Patch started to smell real yeasty & scratch & had bad fermenting breath smell so I changed kibbles again, he couldn’t eat the R/C Gastrointestinal Low Fat wet tin food cause it has rice in the Australian Royal Canine, there’s also Hills Vet Diet I/d Low Fat Restore wet tin food, it has digestive enzymes but it has rice so Patch can’t eat it… http://www.hillspet.com.au/en-au/products/pd-canine-id-low-fat-canned.html

I understand about the raw having enzymes but when a dog has a compromised immune system they can’t fight the bad bacteria in the raw that’s why I went thru a Naturopath Jacqueline Rudan from “Natural Animal Solutions” & she would not let Patch eat any of the commercial raw diets, she said I’ve seen them all being made & they all have very low grade meats & veggies, so I had to buy raw human kangaroo, fresh chicken breast & fresh veggies & make my own raw, it was pretty easy & soooo fresh, I had to put her digestive Enzymes 1/2 capsule & a human Probiotic that is dairy free gluten free 1/2 capsule with every meal to help Patch digest the raw & not get diarrhea.. but he kept regurgitating & burping up the raw even with the Digestive Enzymes & Probiotic, so I cooked the raw & stopped the Digestive enzymes & stopped the Probiotic Patch doesn’t do well on Probiotics he does better on Prebiotics… here’s her site she answers all emails & only cost me $60 for 1 hour phone consultation, she does Skype for overseas customers, every now & then Patch gets bad pain right side chest area under front paw, stomach pancreas area, he comes to me lifts his right paw whinges & wants me to rub his chest after eating certain kibbles that are high in protein over 25% protein, Jacqueline told me Patches Pancreas isn’t doing its job & working properly, all vet test came back OK but he gets all the symptoms of Pancreatitis, vets said it IBD & Helicobacter-Pylori he had Endoscope & Biopsies done 1 year ago, we tried every vet diet none worked for Patch but that’s cause of the boiled rice cause when I was first buying the Hills I/d Low Fat Restore the wet tin had no boiled rice, when we read the ingredients we must of missed rice & when I opened the tin I couldn’t see the rice he was doing really well on the I/d Low Fat Restore wet tin food, then I must of bought a different batch when I opened the tin the top was full of clumps of boiled rice, I rung Hills & said whats happening she said the I/d Restore is made at 2 different places, it sounds like the rice wasn’t grounded & has clumped all together, do I know the Batch numbers of the I/d Low Fat wet tin foods he was doing really well on, I said NO but I have the Batch numbers of all these tins full of rice, so I had to take them all back to the vets for refund, I was so disappointed even though, I hate Hills it worked & you start to not worry what the ingredients are when they start gaining weight & doing better, I tried feeding the i/d wet tin with the rice & scoping out most of the boiled rice but he started having his yellow sloppy smelly poos again farting rumbling bowel noises that you could hear in the next room, his breath stunk so his vet put him back on the Metronidazole for 3 weeks & gave me 3 repeat scripts for when it happens again I don’t have to keep seeing her just for some Metronidazole, the Metronidazole clears everything up I can’t believe how good it is the vet wanted to keep Patch on the Metronidazole she said she has a few dogs like Patch & they are on a low dose of Metronidaole once a day, but I just use when needed I have found since Ive been cooking chicken breast, sweet potatoes, broccoli, zucchini & kangaroo some days & using 1/2 spoon of the Natural Animal Solutions DigestaVite Plus-100 Patch is slowly getting better……I can’t believe it all these years I thought he couldn’t eat cooked food but it was the stupid rice it ferments in their stomach & was iratating his bowel….he can eat grounded rice in kibble just not boiled rice.. I contacted Jacqueline the Naturopath for help naturally.. her diets are under “Information” you pick 1 to 2 proteins I started with just the 1 protein Kangaroo now I feed chicken more then you pick 2-4 veggies & 1-2 fruits, I picked apple when he was eating raw but now I cut up watermelon & give as a treat or Paw Paw, Paw Paw is suppose to be excellent for the somach it has natural digestive enzymes..I freeze inice cube tray, its Summer here in Australia
http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/intestinal-flora-imbalance.html

[Howard J]

She does not take Metronidazole. We gave her Royal Canine low fat wet food a few hours ago, the ingredients are horrendous but she seems to be doing better. Probably will never give it to her again. Still looks like she is losing weight though.

Her breath does not smell good. Smells like putrid throw up, although it has gotten better. Her butthole seems to be inflamed too. I’ll try the mashed potatoes.

I’ll refrain from giving her a raw based diet, also I mine as well buy the Honest Kitchen food looks great! My only question is the Fromm wet food I have been feeding her has 44.63% Protein on a dry matter basis of 100 grams and 10.24% Fat on a dray matter basis of 100 grams. I can only imagine the fat content of Natural Instinct’s Venison Raw.

For Honest Kitchen the Zeal Dog food profile says Protein is 38.40% on a Dry matter basis and Fat is 9.25%, which is less than the Fromm wet food. However, it does not say the amount of grams, which would be my only concern. If its 100grams then she would likely do better on this food, in part because of the low protein and fat content and the better ingredients. The Fiber is much lower than Fromm’s wet food however the carbs are higher, not sure if that is good or bad for pancreatitis.

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/media/wysiwyg/AAFCO/ZEAL-nutrient-profile-1.pdf
http://frommfamily.com/products/four-star/dog/can/shredded-chicken/technical-analysis/

Also, the As-Is Basis of fat per 100 grams of the Fromm is 2.10, which is lower than the As Received (8.5%) as well as the As Served Hydrated (4.25%). Yet, Fromms dry matter basis of 100g, the fat % is higher than all the categories in the Zeal Dog Food Nutrient Profile.

Really confusing!

[Susan]

Hi Howard, did she take Metronidazole (Flagyl)? its an antibiotic for the stomach & bowel, also smell her breath does it smell & what of?? that’s how I know what’s happening with my boy when I smell his breath, when my boy starts doing the yellow mushy poos I have a few scripts of Metronidazole the vet has given me & I put Patch on the Metronidazole with food for 10 days & change diet, also I cook potatoes instead of rice, boiled rice can irritate the bowel…. Australian vets are using boiled potatoes now instead or the old fashion boiled rice..
When Patch has had the gurgling pinning bowel noises it was either from the boiled rice or an ingredient he was sensitive too, then over the years I found he has food sensitives…. He has had Pancreatitis when I first rescued him, vet put him on a vet diet for his skin allergies & the fat was toooo high at 19%…..now I cook chicken breast, potatoes, broccoli, zucchini, sweet potatoes, it depends some days I add Kangaroo rissoles some days or I add salmon in spring water drained, I put it all thru a blender for a few seconds….
I cant get The Honest Kitchen in Australia if I could I’d be feeding Patch the “Zeal” the fat is only 8.50% its low in carbs & limited ingredients & fish as protein so easy to digest, for the days I’m lazy…..http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/zeal

I wouldn’t be feeding a raw diet with those symptoms, or if you do want to feed a raw diet, I went thru a Naturopath cause Patch was diagnosed with IBD & needs low fat diet & has Skin Allergies the raw worked for his skin but not his stomach (IBD) he kept regurgitating & burping up the raw Kangaroo & blended raw veggies but when I bake the kangaroo into rissoles & boil the same veggies, he’s OK, so I cook instead now & freeze meals…..

Sounds like you just haven’t found the right diet yet or she may do what happens with Patch, he needs his foods changed every month when I feed kibbles or he starts reacting to an ingredient, I posted a link about this I’ll try & find it, he cant stay on the same kibble too long he starts doing yellow sloppy poos….
Go supermarket get a couple brown potatoes, 1 small sweet potatoes, 1 zucchini & a small broccoli head, peel boil & put in containers in the fridge also maybe change the chicken to turkey or try the chicken & potato & see if there’s any gurgling pinning bowel noises & yellow mushy poo, if its still making loud noises change the protein, no chicken…maybe at first just do the chicken & potato & see if there’s improvement in stools, if there is then add some zucchini wait 2 days look at poos if poos are firm then add broccoli or whatever you want to add, then after a couple of weeks start adding some tin salmon in spring water drained to get all the healthy omegas & vitamins from the salmon, I add 1/2 a small tin per meal but you could make a few meals for a couple of days having a smaller dog… if you do see vet ask for a script for some Metronidazole its good have in cupboard when this happens, she may have too much bad bacteria in the stomach/bowel (S.I.B.O) & needs the metronidazole to fix everything up again….

[Howard J]

Seven months ago the vet discovered that my 11 year old cairn terrier had multiple nodules on her pancreas. They said that it was either a tumor, benign or malignant or hyperplasia of the pancreas, which is common in old dogs. A month ago she was acting lethargic, depressed and had a seizure like episode. They prescribed her doxycycline after she tested light positive for anaplasmosis and from here on she got much worse. She threw up yellow, foamy bile every night. She’s always had GI PROBLEMS but the doxy made her feel very sick, she refused to eat anything, and lost 2.5lbs in the process.

We brought her back in and they took her off the doxy, they gave her an anti-nausea injection and prescribed various medications to treat her stomach and pancreas. A few weeks later her blood test seemed to have improved, her ALKP at the time of the crisis was over 6000!! However, it went down to less than 2000 with all other liver enzymes in the reference range. Everything else was normal, including the blood count, except for slightly high calcium and BUN levels.

Any who, they compared her pancreas photos from seven months ago and the nodules have not changed at all. They said they are ruling out cancer, and it is most likely something that shouldn’t be worried about. However, they are saying her liver enzymes are still high and they want to do a liver biopsy to figure out what is the problem, in order to give us a better diagnosis and to implement a treatment plan. We refused and instead opted to give monthly urine samples, as well as administrating milk thistle into her diet.

MY QUESTION: What should her diet consist of? After the supposed pancreatitis episode we introduced her to chicken and rice, which she seemed to do okay on. We then introduced her to Fromm grain free, shredded chicken and Natural Instincts frozen raw venison. She absolutely loved it, and seemed to be doing great. We fed her a small amount of the medallions. I know raw diet, especially natural instinct has high fat content, so maybe it isn’t good? She is back to Fromm with some boiled chicken and rice and her symptoms of pancreatitis seem to be coming BACK!

Her stools are muscusy, yellow, greasy diarrhea, which are signs of pancreatitis and/or too much fat in her diet. She has also been dry heaving occasionally. These symptoms have developed after we stopped giving her Natural Instinct. Today we fed her just chicken but her stools are the same. Pungent, yellow diarrhea.

Should we give her ENZYMES and/or probiotics, it seems that she isn’t digesting her food properly and the vets aren’t really helping diet wise. Is it wise to give dogs with pancreatitis raw diets and if so which brand is the best for this condition. If not, what food is appropriate for her condition?

I would greatly appreciate the input!

John

[Cathy C]

Hi. I am currently feeding my dog the Darwin Raw Canine diet and I would like to know if this is a good choice. I don’t see this product in the Editors Choice section. Please advise !!

Cathy

[Margie R]

The raw diet primal lists lamb liver as its second ingredient. My vet was horrified. Any comments?

[Susan]

Hi Sunny,
I feed cooked chicken, broccoli, sweet potatoes, zucchini for breakfast, then for dinner I feed kibble, I change foods, I don’t feed the same food everyday… I have frozen cooked kangaroo rissoles that I made the other day, so today I added 2 small kangaroo rissole with Patches chicken & veggies & less chicken only 1/2 cup chicken instead of 1 cup chicken cause I added the Kangaroo, the next morning I add salmon with the chicken… they love sardines or salmon mixed thru a meal…

Have you tried feeding a balanced raw diet, your dog may prefer a raw diet, my dog loves raw, but he regurgitates the raw when he burps then he gets his acid reflux, he has IBD so I cant feed raw….I don’t think you need to see a vet he’s just becoming a fussy dog, maybe a bit spoilt, so be careful when he refuses to eat something put it in the fridge after 10mins of it sitting on the floor & him not eating it & bring it back out 1-2 hours later when he’s hungry & see if he will eat it…. I always warm my boy food in microwave but once you heat it they have to eat it, you cant stick it back in fridge….they know how to do the sad puppy eyes & look at you real sad, so you feel guilty & give them what they want & he’s a pup, so he’s working out what he can get away with…

What are you feeding him?? maybe its yuk or he ate it,then felt sick,I had a boxer & my old cat, they would eat something once maybe twice then if the food made them feel sick & or have diarrhea then they wouldn’t eat it again….

[Dori]

LadyJane. Glad to hear all you are doing. I stop flea, tick and heart worm meds quite some time ago. I also no longer have them vaccinated. They are all on raw healthy diets and are all healthier than they ever were. Blood tests always come back great. My three are homebodies also. Their excursions to the outside world are on our own property and on occasion to the vet where I carry them in and out.

[Susan]

Hi Raquel, my boy has IBD & suffers with the Helicobacter-Pylori on & off, we found this all out thru Endoscope & Biopsies 1 year ago, the only why to diagnosed Helicobacter in dogs is thru Endoscope & Biopsies….. he was put on triple therapy meds Metronidazole, Amoxicillin & Zantac for 3 weeks…. the vet that did the Endoscope & biopsies recommended prebiotics when the antibiotics were finished, he doesn’t believe in probiotics for dogs but Patches other vet does…..I have found diet plays a big part when too much bad bacteria takes over….
My problem is probiotics & prebiotics seem to make Patch worse, he feels sick, nausea, wants grass etc after having his probiotic, it’s like the probiotics has a party with Patches bad bacteria & make everything worse, then I joined a group on Face Book called “Fast Tract Diet” run by Dr Norm Robillard, then I read about the die off period when you take probiotic & how you can feel real sick also Norm Robillard say’s you should take probiotics on empty stomach when your stomach acids are low, so either first thing in the morning or night before bed all by themselves, not with food, when we are eating our stomach acids are real strong & kill the live probiotics….
Do you know anything about the die off period, Patch was taking a real good animal probiotic called “Protexin” a live probiotic that’s kept in fridge….in the Fast Tract Diet group Dr Norm Rollibard has a book & what foods to eat & not to eat starchy Carbs as they are the worst especially potatoes most dog grain free food have Potatoes, I haven’t bought his books yet, but Patch gets worse after eating potatoes he gets his bad fermenting breath back, he starts his whinging his stomach hurts, so I put him on the Metronidazole for 2 weeks & he’s all good again…I’ve been trying to work out his diet, I know raw is the best but he burps & some of the raw food comes up & then he get acid reflux, the Raw seems to digest real quick & then he regurgitates the raw… Do you have any research that probiotics are working & helping dogs?? cause I know a few other ladies from a IBD group & their dogs can not take probiotics either their dogs get sick with vomiting & the probiotics seem to make everything worse…..I know antibiotics are being over prescribe & are bad, here’s a link “Antibiotic Over Use” that was on the Fast Tract Diet Group site… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240113/

[Bobby dog]

Hi Chris S:
I agree, this diet as written is not complete. I feed a kibble based diet along with commercial raw, canned, and homemade meals. Variety works well for my dog and most of my cats; sometimes it doesn’t for some.

If you are interested in making some or all homemade meals I purchased this download written by Dr. Susan Lauten a few months back that has grain free and grain inclusive recipes for healthy adult dog maintenance that are balanced to both AAFCO requirements and NRC recommendations. The supplements to make the recipes balanced can be found on the Internet or in drug and health food stores:
http://petnutritionconsulting.com/susan-lauten-phd/
http://backtobasicspetcare.com/

[InkedMarie]

The best food you can feed her is NOT dry: raw, canned, dehydrated….If you must feed dry, please go to the review side & look for a 3 star food. Once she does well on that, you can upgrade to a 4 or 5 star if you wish. Her current diet is a very low quality food. Be prepared for diarrhea when you transition. Transition over a week or so. If you have to feed dry, add some high quality canned and water to her food. It is very important that she get water.

It is also very important that she has ample opportunity to urinate.

Good luck!

[Dori]

Kevin R. One of my girls, a Maltipoo, was riddled with food intolerances, sensitive and allergies and also environmental issues. Her dermatologist/allergist here in Atlanta, Ga. at Blue Pearl Georgia Veterinary Specialists suggested that I not do that particular testing nor the skin testing and shots. He told me it would be a very long process and the duration of the injections would probably be long term as she was such a mess. He advised me that the very best way to deal with her situation was to attempt to either do an illumination diet or try to figure out and eliminate ingredients in her diet and also to remove all, or as many, toxins in the home environment. I no longer burn candles, no air freshener sprays, no plug ins. I switched to natural type cleaners. Never ever any type of carpet freshening powders that are then vacuumed up. Hardwood floors are cleaned with a solution of vinegar and water. I also wipe her paws (all three dogs actually) when she comes in from out in the yard. I switched to a landscaping company that only uses organic products. I removed all the lawn in our patio/back area where they play and potty to stone, gravel and flower gardens….annuals and perennials. Just early on this year I had two types of testing done solely out of curiosity on my part because I had spent years “fixing” her issues to see what they would come up with. I did the Nutriscan Saliva test by Dr. Jean Dodds first and I believe the cost was around $250.00. If memory serves me that tests for 20 items. Though the test was informative as it did have things that I had already eliminated from her diet I did find that the test showed that she was sensitive to one of the few foods she actually does very well on. I then heard about a test called Glacier Peak Holistics on an allergy group I’m on. That tests for 200 including food and environment which cost $85.00. It is a food and saliva test. I that test was spot on for every single thing that through the years I had eliminated from her diet. The food that she does well on was not something that came up as a sensitivity on that test. It did come up with with food ingredient that I was not aware of and that was cucumbers. From time to time Katie would itch, not a lot but it was there. Turns out that they must have coincided with times that I shared cucumbers with the girls. I eliminated the cucumbers and she’s never scratched again. I feed all three of my dogs commercial raw frozen diets rotating brands and proteins with the exceptions of the ones that Katie cannot tolerate. For treats they get fresh fruits and veggies. I’ve been feeding them this way for a little over 4 1/2 years. Switching to the raw frozen was how I was able to eliminate her food issues as it was the quickest way to eliminate soy, grains, all fowl, corn, white potatoes, tomatoes, white rice, all night shade plant ingredients which are all pro inflammatory. I got Katie at the age of 9 weeks old and at that early age she was an allergy sensitive mess. It took me two years to go through the elimination process with her. She is now 6 1/2 years old and a happy camper. Quite comfortable and happy in her own skin. I continue to wipe all three toy dogs privates and paws with warm clean wash cloths. I should mention that I also have a “no shoes” policy in our home. No one, including repairmen, etc. enters our home with shoes on. It would defeat all I’m doing by dragging in environmental stuff that’s on the bottom of their shoes. Everyone is perfectly happy to go along with my wishes and as a matter of fact through the years more and more people that I know have gone with the “no shoes” in the house policy. I also purchased one of those iRobot Roombas that is programmed to go on daily and then I do a deep in the wall vacuuming once a week. It sounds like a lot but when it all comes together it’s all really easy and has changed her and our lives around.

Edit: I will add that there are some people that do not believe in the allergy tests that I have had done on Katie nor their efficacy. All I can say is that they really were spot on with Katie’s issues. Both companies will send you the kits that you need to do the testing with detailed instructions, you send everything back to them and typically in a week or so you’ll get an email with the results. You can then call them and they will go over the results in detail with you.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[jamie h]

My 7 year-old girl (rescue so it’s really a guess),Twiggy, has a grade 3/4 heart murmur and I don’t want to put her on pharmaceutical meds. Anyone suggest a good mix of supplements? She has been on a raw diet before, but switched to kibble/canned mix for financial reasons, but would be willing to do it again, if that’s best. Also, I didn’t have to think about health conditions before. I was looking at Swanson’s raw heart pills, but wondering what else I should do. I also noticed a bit of harsh breathing, but it could be from the murmur? Thank you for your time!

• This topic was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by jamie h.

[dendad]

More about Science Diet and why I’m glad I found out about it before getting more dogs.

/dog-food-recall/hills-science-diet-dog-food-market-withdrawal-november-2015/

[Mike Sagman]

Hi Dori,

As a matter of policy, I never publish any recall announcement unless it can be officially confirmed.

Since this particular event has not (yet) been posted by the FDA and cannot be verified by the company (over the weekend), I had to personally travel to a PetSmart retail store to capture a photograph of the announcement.

I then had to manually convert the photographic lot information to HTML text format, write and format the article, share it on Facebook and write and broadcast an email for our subscribers. So, sorry for the delay.

Here’s a link to our article:

/dog-food-recall/hills-science-diet-dog-food-market-withdrawal-november-2015/

Hope this helps.

[Dori]

Hill’s has removed certain cans of their Science Diet Food. Wondering why it hadn’t appeared anywhere here yet so I thought I’d post the info. If you click on the link you can see which formulas.

Voluntary Withdrawal Hill’s Science Diet Canned Pet Food

• This topic was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Jennifer Y]

Hi Kristine,
Sorry to hear about Koji. I unfortunately don’t have much advice for your situation. Since posting about Nimbus’ Nutriscan results, we’ve done a bit of trial and error on raw meat proteins with her diet, but my situation wasn’t as dire as your’s. I can’t imagine what you’re going through right now.

I personally take the Nutriscan results with a grain of salt. She does fine with most of the food she’s apparently reactive to according to Nutriscan. I’ve been giving her Kefir and plant-based digestive enzymes to help break down her food as well, because I do believe she has a sensitive stomach. Maybe try adding those to Koji’s meals?

Regardless, I hope you find answers soon and some extra cuddles for Koji!

[Shawna]

Hmmmmm? Creatinine is only a little high… Something doesn’t jive here. I’m sure there are exceptions to the rules but creatinine is a better indication of how well the kidneys are actually functioning (from everything I’ve ever read). Maybe newer data is suggesting different but data on this site, veterinary medicine dvm360, published in 2011 still agrees “A serum creatinine concentration is the most commonly used measure of severity of renal dysfunction and is the basis for staging chronic kidney disease (CKD) (Table 1). To optimize accurate staging of CKD, serum creatinine concentrations should be evaluated on two or more occasions when the patient is well-hydrated.” http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/laboratory-evaluation-kidney-disease?rel=canonical

Based on a BUN of 77 and a creatinine of 1.6, I personally wouldn’t do low protein but rather moderate amounts of “high quality” protein.

Does your girl have large amounts of very dilute urine? Was there any protein in the urine? Was any other tests done? Is there any other medical conditions? Did you get a second opinion? She doesn’t want to eat often but you said this is just her normal. Does she have any other symptoms such as vomiting, depression etc?

This may help… My Audrey was diagnosed when she was just 13 months old but had symptoms when she was just 6 weeks old. Within the first year of diagnosis I made dietary changes and then had her blood work done every three months. On December 18, 2007 (the second blood work done after the dietary changes) her BUN was 77 (6 to 25 normal) and her creatinine was 1.9 (0.5 to 1.6 are normal ranges for this lab). Audrey didn’t eat a lower protein diet for another almost 7 years.

They also now know that senior dogs actually require MORE protein than adult dogs because they are less efficient at digesting it. Even toy breed dogs – I had a 4 pound Chihuahua live to age 19 eating a HIGH protein diet.

Please take some time to read the articles on this website. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

Okay……..YES – I would highly recommend starting her on Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It’s pricey up front but will last a long time for a four pound little girl. I’ve never used Five Leaf but others I’ve directly talked to felt it helped. The Primal Defense and Acacia Fiber will help lower BUN. I personally would look at feeding foods with higher quality and amounts of protein and getting rid of the cream of wheat and gravy. See if you can find canned tripe — a brand that is just tripe. There is one out with quinoa but I’m not sure how much phosphorus is in quinoa so not sure it is suitable? It may be, I just don’t know. Tripe itself is higher in protein with moderate amounts of phosphorus. Most dogs really really like it too. You can continue the goat milk (best if it’s raw in my opinion). Eggs are a good option but the yolk is higher in phosphorus so, recommendations vary depending on stage of the disease, you might want to feed more cooked whites then whole eggs (maybe a one to one ratio – one whole egg with one white only). I would also suggest against feeding homemade as it is really important to get the phosphorus to calcium ratios correct and to limit phosphorus to appropriate amounts for the stage of the disease (which is early stage based on the numbers you mentioned—unless your lab normals are way different than mine?). There are recipes online if you want to home prepare. Dr. Meg Smart has a recipe – you would want the one for “early to moderate stage” http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

There’s lots more you can do but you mentioned you have a budget so start with these and then if there’s more for other things you can add on as able–such as herbs that can be helpful.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[Susan]

Hi, yes the starchy carbs Potatoes & peas would be causing the yeasty skin problems, I use Cortic-Ds 1% cream (Hydrocortisone acetate 10mg/g cream) from chemist & every night before Patch goes to sleep, that’s if he has red paws & red under chin & around bottom of his mouth…. I look at his paws & if they’re red I get cotton tip & put the Cortic-Ds 1% cream in between his toes & up his paw very lightly, then if Paws are still bad thru the day I bath in Malaseb medicated shampoo…. Malaseb is excellent kills the bacteria on the skin I try & leave the Malaseb on Patches paws I put a face washer on the bath edge & lift his 2 front paws up on the bath edge & then massage his body in the Malaseb shampoo as long as I can, it says leave on for 10mins but 5 mins does the job if you have a dog that hates baths….I’ve been bathing every 5-7 days again now spring is here..

I’ve been cooking for Patch for Breakfast & Dinner, I’m looking at starting K-9Natural Freeze dried, you just add water or they have the Frozen raw, I’ve been giving the K-9 Natural “Green Lipped Mussel” snacks..
Can you feed a raw diet cause that’s the best, as soon as I started Patch on a raw diet all his skin problems went away in 3 days but Patch kept regurgitating the raw into mouth then swallowing it then he was having acid reflux from burping up the raw…I’m making Sauerkraut tomorrow, its a natural probiotic they need a healthy gut once they have more healthy stomach bacteria they wont have these yeasty skin problems as bad…. or Kefir if you can get some kefir for his stomach & get the healthy bacteria to take over….

[Shawna]

Hi Bev A,

I don’t come on DFA, and especially the forums, that much any more so didn’t see your post. Betsy alerted me that you had asked me a question. Thanks Betsy!!

Probiotics and certain prebiotics do help lower BUN – even the Merck Vet Manual agrees “feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” Unfortunately it seems most vets don’t know this yet. 🙁 http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

How high is your baby girl’s creatinine? Creatinine is more indicative of how the kidneys are doing. BUN can be elevated for additional reasons besides the kidneys. Example — feeding kibble (even KD prescription kibble), while simultaneously not getting enough water, can increase BUN. Does she have unlimited access to water and does she drink often? If you are feeding KD kibble, I would HIGHLY recommend switching to Science Diet’s KD canned foods — they have three of them (one is egg based, one is chicken based and one is beef based). Mixing up the canned food could keep her eating better based on her history. IF her creatinin is on the low side of high AND you can get the BUN down by feeding canned food and giving probiotics/prebiotics, you can also consider adding some higher protein, lower phosphorus toppers to her food and see how she does. The Merck Vet Manual has some info on this too. “In addition, research in dogs is also showing that higher protein levels than what are typically used in most therapeutic renal diets is beneficial as long as the diets are phosphorus restricted. Energy should be supplied primarily via feeding relatively more digestible fat and carbohydrates.” As stated, most of the “energy” in the diet should be fats and appropriate carbs but adding the right kinds of protein can help as well as being more appealing. For now, while the BUN is high, don’t mess with adding anything with protein, including treats, to the diet. If she likes organic, extra virgin coconut oil you can add small amounts of that to each meal and blend it in well so she doesn’t pick it out. It won’t add to the BUN. Oh, and I do like raw goats milk.

Changing from a kibbled diet to a canned KD diet should help reduce BUN. Adding a GOOD quality probiotic (I like Primal Defense by Garden Of Life or the product at Mercola Healthy Pets website) and the right prebiotic can help further reduce BUN. Adding the wrong prebiotic (fermentable fiber is another term) can make things worse as they ferment in the wrong part of the digestive tract apparently. The product I found the most beneficial for my KD girl is called acacia fiber. NOW brand makes one. http://www.nowfoods.com/Acacia-Fiber-Organic-Powder-12oz.htm

If she’s never been on probiotics and prebiotics before then I would introduce them slowly over several weeks period. My Audrey was 9 pounds and I gave her 1/2 of a Primal Defense and 1/8 tsp of acacia fiber in her food as needed (when I noticed she seemed off). To start out I would give maybe 1/8 of the probiotic for a few days. Then continue that dose but add a pinch of the fiber for a few more days. Then increase the probiotic to 1/4 but leave fiber at 1/8 for a few more days. If you don’t see any symptoms you might be able to go a little quicker. If you do see symptoms you might want to decrease the amounts being given a bit. Given to quickly to dogs not used to them, probiotics can often have diarrhea as a symptom as an example.

Let me know if you have any more questions for me and let us know how things are going.

Good luck to you and your baby!!!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[Coonhound Mama]

Coonhound Dad! 🙂
Glad to see another Coonhound parent on here. Curious as to what kind of Coonhound Maggie is and how long the pea-related carbohydrate problem went on before you solved the issue. We’ve got a rather itchy (no dandruff or any kind of large-scale discomfort) Bluetick and Treeing Walker mix who eats a partial raw and partial kibble diet (kibble containing pea protein).

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Ryan Y:
I’m new to raw feeding so I will stick to quoting the tried and true veterans of the field, but I do know that you have to be careful balancing phosphorous and calcium ratios as well as avoiding too much Vitamin A (often found in liver and fibrous carbohydrates like pumpkin). An older post in this forum written by Hound Dog Mom on the topic of Raw Feeding has a wonderful recipe she’s come up with (and also tested against AAFCO standards) that seems easy to make and is balanced as a full vitamin and mineral mix. Reminder that these are vitamins and minerals in their dietary form and not their tablet or pill form if that makes sense. I’ll post it here for you as I’ve copied it for my own use and don’t have time to hunt around for the original post!

Hound Dog Mom’s Whole Food Multi-Vitamin/Mineral Supplement (for her large dogs):

4 oz kelp powder
4 oz alfalfa powder
4 oz wheatgrass powder
4 oz spirulina powder
4 oz chlorella powder
4 oz bee pollen powder
4 oz turmeric powder
2 oz garlic powder

I know she also uses apple cider vinegar, cod liver oil, Himalayan crystal salt, calcium citrate, coconut oil and various mixed tocopherols tocotrienols in her dogs’ diet, but these would vary with dog size, age, weight and of course the other food items being fed at the time. Again, if you look through the forums, you should be able to find some of her outstanding dietary advice.

[Jenn H]

Ah puppies & diarrhea. There’s a million causes.
Given that he’s been having to adjust to new environments in his short life I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that it’s just stress/excitement.
To help him symptomatically make sure the rice you give him is white rice. Brown can be more difficult to digest. When you make the rice save the water it’s boiled in and pour it over food and/or give it to drink.
Pumpkin is a great help in relieving diarrhea. 1 tsp/10 #s.
I have also had great luck with probiotics. An easy 1 to get a hold of is Nutri-vet Food Transition. It’s at Petco & comes in packets or tabs. It’s not expensive. Works great.
Then there’s my all time favorite thing and that’s raw goat milk.
When giving probios or goat milk wait 2 hrs before or 4 hrs after meals if on an antibiotic.
If you think he has a chicken allergy you can try giving him organic ground beef w/ the least amt of fat you can get. Boil it like you would the chicken.
I usually get i/d cans when my dogs need to be on a bland diet. It’s a prescription food. But it makes me feel better to add the rice, chicken/beef to supplement the food because then I know it’s balanced. This is obviously a diet that isn’t meant to be fed for too long. Especially with a growing pup.
Ask the vet to hold off on vaccines until his immune system isn’t busy fighting something else or he’s less stressed. Also I personally prefer to spread out vaccines at least 2 wks apart. I don’t do combos. (Except the parvo. It only comes that way.) It’s easier on the immune system and if there’s a reaction I can know which was the cause. And I only do the core vaxx. Understand that I am not an anti-vaxxer. Just not an over-vaxxer. It took me 30+ yrs of raising dogs and other animals to figure out that they don’t need a lot of the stuff we shoot them up with. And the difference between vaccinating and immunization. And what the shots do when an animal isn’t in optimal health at the time they receive them.
Sometimes dogs lick their paws because they have a fungus. That’s not always a sign of allergies. So if eliminating chicken doesn’t help, try looking into that.
Good luck with your new puppy. Congratulations!

[Jenn H]

Everything I have learned about diet for dogs w/ cancer is high protein, low carbs. Not the easiest foods to find and/or afford (if on a tight budget).
Whenever I’ve had dogs with cancer I head right to the integrated vet. He’s great at mixing & matching treatments, diets, supplements, etc using holistic (not necessarily homeopathic) and convential medicine. If you can find a good vet like that it’s worth a try.
Some vet hospitals also have nutritionists that do consults. For a fee of course.
I’m really into raw goat milk. Check out the Primal or Answers site for info on its benefits.
Good luck & good health to your dogs. I hope they all stay healthy & have long wonderful lives. I feel for you.

[Vicky T]

P.S. He is not on any prescription food and wouldn’t eat it if he was
The vet did not recommend anything other than the sub q saline treatments.
When I asked him if there was any meds he could prescribe he said yes but that none would help that much, so we’re kind of on our own helping our little guy feel comfortable.

Prior to being diagnosed he was on a high quality grain free kibble (wetted with water) mixed with a grain free canned dog food but he started refusing to eat that so I’ve been feeding him people food like eggs, cottage cheese, canned salmon and mackerel, chicken and venison. He also likes cooked and raw carrots.
I have some dog probiotics I’ve been giving him and the supplement he’s on is:
Pet Wellbeing Kidney Support Gold…just something I found on the internet.

I will have to look into the homemade kidney disease diet ASAP.

[Jonathan S]

I had that worry the first time I gave turkey necks… my boys swallowed them in big chunks, though luckily there were no problems. I tried giving bigger, solid bones, like lamb shanks, but the amount of fat bothered them a bit.

My solution has been to incorporate ground meats that include bones in their raw diet… specifically ground duck and turkey necks, ground chicken backs, and ground bone it rabbit. I also leave the big, cow femur sections for them to gnaw on during the day.

Hope that helps!

[Coonhound Mama]

Hello all!

I’m a new raw feeder and although I’ve done loads of research on here, in books and around the wide web, I’m still at a loss for how to keep my girl at a proper weight. When we adopted her she was 62 pounds and has swiftly gone down to 57 despite calorie counting and a medium-level fat diet. She is very active (1-2 hours of vigorous cardio per day) and we have a hard time keeping weight on her despite plenty of healthy fats and a partial kibble diet (she’s a 5 year old rescue new to us as of 3 months ago, so we are transitioning slowly).

If anyone has similar experience with large breed athletic dogs and keeping weight on them healthily, please feel free to respond as I am looking for some advice.

[anonymously]

I stopped feeding my dogs raw bones after we ended up at the emergency vet x2 for GI blockages.

Give a Dog a Bone (Not!)–FDA warns of dangers of feeding bones to dogs

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet
Also, check the search engine here, example /forums/topic/rectal-issues/

[Jenn H]

I have to say that raw unpasteurized goat milk has been a lifesaver. I wish I knew about it years ago. It’s considered a super food. And I never really thought it was all that it was cracked up to be until I had was so desperate for anything to work in a particular situation.
If you have a certified organic farmer that sells it near you or at a farmer’s market get it. That’s the least expensive.
If you can’t find it locally try a small mom & pop pet store that sells raw diets. That’s where I end up getting it most of the time. My store sells Primal brand.
Online you can try The Honest Kitchen Pro Bloom. It’s dehydrated. More reasonably priced than Primal.
If you look on the Answers website they have tons of info & links about the million benefits of raw goat milk.
Like I said I didn’t believe it til I tried it. Now I swear by it. Since giving it to my dog with Lyme she hasn’t needed any anti-inflammatory drugs and her stomach didn’t get upset from the antibiotic this time.
The puppy has been having diarrhea off & on for some unknown reason. Since giving it to him daily no more diarrhea.
Every morning about 20-30 min before breakfast I give them pure pumpkin mixed with raw goat milk.
It has been a miracle. I really can’t say enough about it. I suggest trying that before spending a ton of money on nutritionists. I really think you’ll find improvement pretty quickly.

[Jenn H]

I have no poblem with vegetarian diets for dogs (that are nutritionally balanced of course). I had a dog that couldn’t breakdown animal proteins. (If there were enzymes available for it then I would’ve given him that instead). He was a vegetarian. But still got his protein from eggs. Which is a food that has the highest biological value. Eventually it was realized that a lot of dogs were having difficulty with the most common meats in dog foods because of the sources & inbreeding of the animals, etc. He did fine with kangaroo & rabbit.
Anyway, vegetarian and vegan diet are NOT the same thing. Dogs have been close companions of humans for 45,000 yrs. You bet they have evolved. They are more omnivorous than ever and actually do best on a diet of plants, grains and MEATS. While they can adapt to a WELL-BALANCED vegan diet, they do best with a diet of animal fats & proteins.
Vegetarian & vegan diets require adding synthetic amino acids. Dogs cannot produce these very important elements themselves. Make sure none of that is sourced from China.
If you go to certain parts of the world you will see lots of dogs on the streets surviving on whatever they find. While that shows they can adapt, I wouldn’t exactly say they are thriving.
As for the dogs that have lived well into their 20s on vegan diets I don’t believe they aren’t getting appropriate proteins somewhere. I would bet they eat other animals. Mice, birds, whatever they hunt unknowingly to their people.
The cattle dog you mentioned admittedly wasn’t vegetarian. But I also have to say that I doubt Guiness followed that dog through its whole life. Who’s to say it was 29? Were they able to prove it by means other than a birth certificate? I couldn’t find any other means used to prove the ages of the oldest dogs. It appears they were (assuming their ages were real) the exceptions. Miracles really.
We all want our dogs to live as long as us with the best quality of life. Sometimes that means not anthropromorphizing them, doing/feeding things that are disgusting to us, but necessary to them. Or making difficult choices that will break our hearts, but will relieve them of pain. They are dogs. They are not humans. We have a great responsibility & are privileged to provide them with everything they depend on.
I only want what is best for anyone’s animals.
It is incredibly selfish to insist that your dog should be vegan because you are. Even if you supplement appropriately it isn’t the same as getting nutrients from the right food source. “Let your food be your medicine.”
I understand some dogs need to be vegetarians for health reasons. I have been there when other options weren’t available until later in his life. As soon as I discovered other choices I tried them. Because he was a dog. I didn’t love feeding him kangaroo or rabbit (we have rabbit pets. His best friend was a rabbit.) But he didn’t know he was eating cute animals. He only knew & cared that he was eating and not feeling bad afterward.
I should mention that I have only ever had GSDs my entire life. None of them that I raised developed arthritis or hd. Others I have adopted/fostered improved almost instantly once given an appropriate diet & exercise for that individual dog. Right now I have 3 dogs and 5 different foods because all of them need different things at the moment.
My point is just do what is best for the dog. Don’t push your beliefs on them. They don’t care. Feed them meat products. Even if it’s just eggs and raw goat milk. But make sure they get a balanced diet. If they live to be 20+ that’s awesome if they are healthy, happy, pain-free. If they live to be a happy & loved 10 year old without any suffering, then you’ve done your job.
Their time with us flies by. Enjoy them fully. Love them completely.