[Tina]

My Golden Retriever will eat just about anything. I worry about her because I lost her best friend to lymphoma at 5 years old. My Cocker Spaniel will eat anything but at around 2 years old had the first and the worst colitis attack ever. All of my dogs have had nothing but chicken their entire lives. My Corgi had a colitis attack at 2 years old but she has a great stomach but I’ve been dealing with her weight for years. My large breed mutt has had a sensitive stomach, picky eater and really low immune system.

[Amy S]

Well now I don’t know what to do! Was just reading research on Bloat, and saw that the risk increases 100% in high risk breeds if one of the top 4 ingredients is fat. The 4th ingredient in Whole Earth is chicken fat, and I have a German Shepherd which is an at risk breed.
I am surprised to see very little discussion on bloat.
I am thinking about rotating Nutrisource (need to check prices) and Grandma Lucy’s with fresh meat. With 2 large breed dogs I just can’t afford the raw route, and husband gets the willies lol.

[Tina]

My Golden Retriever is 7 years old and she’s on Nutro Large Breed Senior
Chicken, Whole Brown Rice & Oatmeal Formula. She has a sensitive red, dry skin and dry coat, a little overweight and hip and joint issues. My Cocker Spaniel is 8 years old and she’s on Hill’s® Ideal Balance™ and Nutro WHOLESOME ESSENTIALS® Senior
Chicken, Whole Brown Rice & Oatmeal Formula.
Natural Chicken & Brown Rice Recipe Mature Adult. She has colitis, bad eyes and ears, bad teeth, sensitive stomach, dry skin and coat and hip and joint issues. My Pembroke Welsh Corgi is 5 years old and she’s on Hill’s® Prescription Diet®
Canine Metabolic Advanced Weight Solution. She has bad hip and joints, over weight, no energy, dry skin and bad teeth. My Large Breed Mutt is 1 year old and is on Hill’s® Science Diet®
Adult Large Breed. He has a weak immune system, dry skin only and high energy.

[annie]

Hi, I have a beautiful 6 month old cane corso/pitbull named Sadie. I have been feeding her orijen large breed puppy and recently switched to Fromm grain free and adding stella and chewys freezed dried which she likes but her butt is always red .iIhad them expressed by vet and was given powder but i feel so bad to have to keep having her go through that, as it seemed so uncomfortable she cried and i felt so bad ,does anyone have any experience with this issue? and any suggestion on diet or supplements that may help.
Thanks

[Tina]

I have four dogs with four different needs, ages and lifestyles. Gidget is a 9 year old Black Cocker Spaniel with colitis and dry itchy skin. Angel is a 7 year old Golden Retriever with bad hip and joint issues and dry itchy skin. Shadow is a 1 year old large breed mutt (German Shepherd, Australian Cattle Dog, Belgian Shepherd) with skin and coat sensitivities, stomach sensitivities and very low immune system. Ginger is a 5 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi with a weight problem and dry, itchy skin. I’m looking for a Budget Friendly dog food that I can find in South Florida. There are many different pet stores all around me including Petco, Pet Supermarket and Petsmart. What can you recommended for me?

[Shawna]

Hi Gina,

My toy breeds (I have eight) and foster dogs (Boston Terriers and Papillons) all get raw or some raw. Between my own and my foster dogs, I’ve had more than 30 dogs on raw and never had a problem with even one of them to date. I actually have had two foster dogs that could not digest kibble well at all but did fantastic on raw.

For the record, I do have one dog that I will not feed raw edible bones to as she is a gulper and has choked on chew treats before. If she tries to swallow a chew treat that is too large she is likely to try to swallow a bone that is too large. I mainly feed ground, commercial raw but wanted to mention that..

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Boerboel Daddy –

You do not want to put mom onto a low calcium food. Growth of the fetuses during gestation and providing the pups with milk during lactation requires massive amounts of calcium. During the final 35 days of gestation, requirements for calcium and phosphorus increase by around 60%. During lactation, depending on litter size, bitches may require between 2-5 times as much calcium as is required for adult maintenance. When you wean the pups you can place them on an appropriate large breed puppy formula. So I’d say it would be fine to stick with Acana for now.

[Shawna]

LOL, Thanks Shasta!! 🙂

I actually have eight small and toy breed dogs ranging in size from 4 to 14 pounds. Five of the eight get raw with a little canned topper for variety. (I’ve been a raw feeder for about 10 years.) The other three get a quarter cup of kibble with a large teaspoon of canned and a large teaspoon of raw. All but one of mine are adopted–one from humane society, two rehomed to me at six months of age (both ill) and the other four came in as foster dogs and never left. 🙂 The one we got from the breeder has had kidney disease since birth and reacts to beef bone, beef tripe and barley (or gluten) which I was giving her for her kidneys (long story). I feed a lot of bison, venison, salmon, lamb, pork, rabbit, eggs, no bone-in beef etc.. Mimi, one that gets kibble regularly, seems to react to lamb so I only give her very small amounts of raw lamb infrequently.. The others may have issues with certain ingredients too(?) but I rotate so frequently that if they do they aren’t on the food long enough for symptoms to appear.

Luckily, none of my pups are finicky or the least bit picky. They all eat anything I put in their dishes. 🙂

PS — all my current babies are small breed but my heart dog is the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. My goal is to have another Staffie (grew up with one) at some point in my future.

[Boerboel Daddy]

Hi Hound Dog Mom.

My Vet shop recently stopped stocking Earthborn in favor of Acana. I loved the Earthborn but how good is the Acana grainfree formula? and is it suitable for Large breed pups?

I am currently feeding Earthborn Primitive natural. can i keep feeding my pregnant female this formula (2.4% calcium) until the pups are born and then switch to one of the low calcium varieties. What i asking is When do i switch to the lower calcium formula? she is Three weeks into her pregnancy

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Boerboel Daddy.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Melissa –

I’d recommend heading over to the large breed puppy forum. It’s the second topic in the “Diet and Health Issues” forum. I think you’ll find most of your questions answered there. But, no, a large breed puppy food does not need to be (and in fact shouldn’t be) low in protein. A low calorie food is not necessary either assuming portion sizes are controlled and the dog is kept in optimal body condition.

[Susan]

Saiq..If u Email Black Hawk you get their pamplet with all the Guaranteed Analysis with the sample Kibble + box.. I just looked the Chicken & Rice, Lamb & Rice Calcium is 1.45min Phosphorus 0.8%min..The Lamb & Rice Puppy, Fish & Potato-Calcium is 1.0%min Phosphorus 0.8%min.. In the Nutro Natural choice the large Breed Puppy, Chicken & Rice Puppy & Large Breed are the only ones that have Caluim & Phosphorus Calcuim-1.8%max & Phosphorus-1.3%max..

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

First, I hope more people will chime in here with helpful advice. Now, to get to your questions as best I can.

It looks like your family is adding a lot of new members to the family. How great for all of them to be able to grow up and play together – and be fed raw. Looks like you’ll have your own little support group!

1. From all my reading on forums and Facebook, finding green tripe can be tricky. Some places ban the sale of it directly to consumers while others seem to be able to get it locally. I’m currently getting mine from MyPetCarnivore.com. I’m hoping that when I find someone who will sell direct, that they’ll also be able to provide the tripe. You’ll just have to ask and if they can’t, perhaps they’ll know where to get it.

2. Sure, you can grind necks. They aren’t terribly meaty, but they’ll grind easily enough. You should be able to start giving them whole when your pup gets a bit older. Chicken necks are tiny and I give them whole to my seven month old cat. I’ve been giving whole duck and turkey necks to Mystery since I started raw, he was 10 months at the time – he’s getting a turkey neck as part of his dinner tonight.

Different nutritionists/homeopathic vets will have various opinions on what, when, how and why to feed certain ingredients. I tend to lean toward Kymythy’s advice at the moment. She raises Newfies and feeds them raw as early as four weeks. The proof is in the health of her pups and adults.

3. I’m still not feeding veggies or “super” greens. Not a “purist” or anything but I wanted to first be sure I was feeding correctly the balance of meat/bone/organs and then get a blood panel or hair sample analysis – I’ll be scheduling that next week. Mystery’s only issues are a skin flaking problem – solved with coconut oil, and motion sickness – I’m still working on that and hoping he’ll grow out of it. So, until I get an analysis that says he needs more of this or that, I’m holding off on supplementing. I do give Mystery garlic for natural pest control and I also supplement with curcumen and vitamin C because Goldens have a high cancer mortality rate. I know a lot of people use “super” this and that as well as create their own veggie mashes. I would lean toward making my own purees since I believe nutrition from the source is best.

4. Most fruits have a lot of sugar in them. I would avoid most or feed them judiciously. I’ll share a banana with Mystery from time to time as well as give him apple slices, but not as a regular part of his diet. Here’s a basic chart that lists not only veggies and fruits that are toxic to pets but also plants as well as symptoms to watch for: http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/toxic.htm. And of course, you’ll find other sites that list fewer or additional foods.

5. Ah, SWEET potatoes. I haven’t read anything that shows a good reason to add most starches. That includes potatoes, peas, some beans. Many of these veggies convert starches to sugar when cooked. I used to give a tablespoon of pumpkin when our Sunset would have loose stools, but Mystery has had no problems there – and especially not since going raw.

6. I must defer to Kymythy on adding anything at all to an eight week old puppy’s diet. If you’re balancing 80/10/10 your calcium/phosphorus ratio is in perfect sync. Adding anything may not only increase the amount of calcium but may throw off that balance. Mess with that ratio and excess calcium can be deposited on the outside of the bones causing a number of issues. We had no idea that there was an issue with LBPs and calcium when we got Sunset 11 years ago. Before she was two, she required double-hip surgery. We got her from a backyard breeder (another ignorant move on our part), didn’t know much about hip scores and fed her what surely is on the one- or two-star lists here at DFA. I’ve been ultra focused on calcium since before I got Mystery.

An excerpt from Kymythy’s book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
By the time the young are ready to go to their new homes, they should be eating whole necks and regular meals with all the extras, and you may discontinue the enzymes and probiotics (although they may help counteract the digestive stress a youngster endures when going to a new home). Youngsters may be fed three times per day from eight weeks until four to six months old, then twice daily from four to six months old until one year of age, and once daily after one year of age. Giant breeds of dogs may need to be fed twice daily occasionally during growth spurts from one to three years of age. Either feed two complete meals or one complete and one of meaty bones (bones with ample meat) only. Observe your pet and adjust amounts accordingly. Do not feed so much that the stomach becomes overly extended. Do not let your pet become obese. A very thin layer of fat over the ribs is healthy, but too much weight puts extra stress on growing bones, joints, and hearts. A healthy wild animal is a lean animal. If your pet needs to lose weight, reduce its food intake. If it needs to gain weight, increase its food. Keep in mind that growing youngsters will eat more per pound of body weight than adult animals.

Schultze, Kymythy (1999-10-01). Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats (p. 67). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Note the information on probiotics and enzymes is directed toward breeders who feed and wean pups to raw. If your puppy has been weaned to kibble, you might want to add some kefir to his diet for a time.

7. See #6, but I will take a look at the three products you mentioned for future use. I am not trying to discourage the use of any supplementation, just use caution and be sure you’re feeding only what is essential and beneficial.

8. I’m assuming you’re referring to the products in question 6 and maybe 7, not 8. LOL! I couldn’t find a guaranteed analysis of the Urban Wolf Balancer so I would be very wary of adding it. They do provide a recipe that uses their products with an analysis and it looks good. If you feel a strong need to supplement… Questions regarding their recipe ingredients might include, where do they get their fish oil from; is it guaranteed not to contain any toxins; if you use “canned” fish, do the cans contain BPA; if natural ingredients are better, why so many dried/powdered ingredients in their mixes? This is the hard part for me – giving my money to companies that sell premixes and toppers when I can just hit the market for fresh ingredients.

9. When you’re deciding on recipes, remember that your eight week old puppy is capable of handling chunks of raw meats, organs and bones. Even if he’s been weaned onto kibble before you get him, there should be no need to transition him as he hasn’t developed an addiction to the sugars and starches yet. I’d been feeding my kitten a kibble diet for about five months when I decided to transition the cats. Since he’d been stealing raw food from the dog, I went straight to raw with him and he jumped all over it, including chicken necks and other appropriately sized bones. I feed grinds only when the weather’s so bad that I can’t even put Mystery on the screened deck, usually when it’s too cold. The cats get fed in the tiled bathroom since they don’t feel the need to drag food all over the place – yet!

Any time you freeze or cook food, you’re going to lose a bit of nutritional value. Most of us have large freezers because we buy in bulk so frozen it is. Be sure you thaw foods and try to bring them to room temp before feeding. As Alpha in my house, I pull food from the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter until I’ve finished my coffee – then they get to eat. I know some people feed frozen foods but I wouldn’t do that to a puppy. Ever get brain freeze from drinking a shake too fast? Imagine a puppy’s digestive system trying to warm up frozen meat. There may be other opinions out there on this, but I would definitely feed three times a day for the first six months and then move to twice a day until he’s at least a year old. You should be feeding him 10% of his current weight until that exceeds 2-3% of his target weight.

I love Mercola. There is a chart floating around that shows who is fighting GMO labeling and who is supporting it in WA. I use it when I go shopping and yes, some of the products I’ve purchased in the past come from companies fighting WA. Let me know if you can’t find it. I get that having to label a product 50 different ways could put a hardship on business so I would support a federal label that is nothing less than FULL disclosure. That said, I don’t trust the FDA or any other governmental agency to have my best interest at heart. I’m a big fan of personal responsibility. The government assumes I’m ignorant…, I believe it’s a choice. (Whoops, gone political.)

I’m glad you were able to find a farm so quickly to meet your raw needs. Don’t forget to pick up chicken feet, green tripe, testicles, heart, kidneys… Go for goat and rabbit as well as chicken, turkey and beef. Something that I would have gotten wrong is differentiating between what are considered organs and what is not.

Organs: Liver (5% of the diet), kidneys, spleen, brain, thymus gland, panaceas and testicles (the other 5%)

Not organs: Heart, Gizzard, Tongue, lung, trachea, green tripe (all considered as part of the 80%).

Another site for learning more about feeding raw is here: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=116. It’s a culling of articles from a variety of sources.

I better turn my attention to the vacuum and washer now or I’m going to be overrun by tumblefurs. I look forward to seeing you on Facebook soon.

[JASTECH]

Cyndi, the dogs are not starving and subject to eating their dog house. My Kangal is the biggest on the yard, he is healthy and does not eat his house. He does dig up rather large tree roots to play with or dumps his 55 gal drum bottom water bowl and plays with it, chewing act but not eating. Some breeds will tear up their house no matter what you do except to remove the house, and I will not do that. I have replaced many houses over the years, that is why I started designing a custom house for winter or summer that is more difficult to damage and replaceable sections. Any more questions? Copy of monthly delivery of pallet of Fromm to show the yard is not starving? Don’t think Judges at shows give the dogs ribbons & trophy’s for looking starved or I’ll treated.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove’s Questions transferred from /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/66/

Hi Sharon! I will be looking into the facebook group after we get our puppy, Zeus is his name :), cause our teens don’t know about it yet and adding that group to our facebook will certainly give them a hint lolll
Someone wrote (i think it was you!?): “Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list)”
What were you told?

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.
1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?
2- Can i grind necks?
3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?
4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)
5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?
6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!
7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?
8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?
9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?
*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good Great Dane breeder. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Arlosmom]

Hello, I’m looking for some advice and hope to find help here. I’ve read through the wealth of info on LBP nutrition here – thank you to all contributors! I just picked up our new Boxer pup (expected to top out at approx. 80lbs or so based on parents) and have had him home for just a couple days shy of 1 week. He is 9 weeks tomorrow. The breeder had the pups on Fromm Gold puppy supplementing with rice, beef, sardines, yogurt, pumpkin. Upon bringing him home, I thought I’d keep him on the food for a couple of weeks and the same regime. I have added toppers of Wellness and Trippet – just a spoonful. I planned on switching to Large Breed puppy Fromm and also wanted to pick another food from HDM’s list. I discovered yesterday that he is knuckling over – more pronounced on his left front than right but both seem to be effected. What I think it might be as that upon getting him home I instituted 2-3 very short walks each day (5-10 minutes max.) I have 3 other dogs so he has also engaged in play and my floors and the ground outside that he is on are all hard surfaces. I thought I should discontinue the walks immediately and have done so. Any advice is welcome – should I change foods right away? Information is conflicting – I’ve read that when this happens protein should be reduced and vit. C introduced?? Do you think the short walks contributed/caused this?? I can send pics as well but would need direction on how/where to post. THANK YOU in advance.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Tina,

Here’s the most recent list of foods with appropriate Calcium levels for large and giant breed puppies: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/preview?pli=1

You’ll want to call the manufacturers to find out about the Sodium levels.

[Jackie B]

/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/ Here is the direct link to large breed puppy foods. I hope your pup lives a long and happy life.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Tina –

Protein does not contribute to developmental disorders in large breed puppies, calcium does however. Therefore it’s not necessary to restrict protein but it is necessary to ensure that the calcium levels are controlled. I’d urge you to head over to the large breed puppy forum area. There you will find links to several articles written by veterinarians explaining appropriate nutrition for large breed puppies and also a list of appropriate 4 and 5 star foods. In order to obtain the sodium levels you will likely have to contact the companies directly though. Unfortunately most companies don’t list sodium levels on the product packaging or website.

[Tina Sharp]

I was told that because of the type of breed it is you need to be careful about bone development. The larger breeds grow faster than the smaller breeds.

[Tina Sharp]

I have a 10 week old english bulldog that has a stage 2 heart murmur. I need a dry large breed puppy that has low salt, low protein and low calcium food. Does anyone have an idea on a large breed puppy that meets this criteria? Thank, Tina aloveoflabs

[D C]

Looking for Large Breed Grain Free, without chicken would be great. Budget friendly would be helpful, we have 4 dogs, the biggest being a Great Pyrenees and he needs large food and alot of it! Some of the regular size food we have tried seem small to me, and it just falls out of his mouth. One of the dogs, a Boston Terrier seems to scratch non stop on everything for the last year. I thought it might be the chicken, switched to duck and he still scratched. Poor thing spins like a top and has no hair on his tail. We currently are using Blue Buffalo Large Breed Salmon. It seems ok so far, looking for other ones to try. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

YAAY for you, more so for your dog!!! In addition to Dr. Becker’s book, get Kymythy’s book too. Amazon has it on Kindle so you can start using it right away.

If you’re going to go raw, I’d just go for it. Pups aren’t addicted to kibble the way adult dogs who’ve been raised on it are. There will be no need for a transition period. When I decided to transition Mystery to raw, I thought I’d feed raw in the morning and kibble at dinner. A couple days later it occurred to me, if he’s eating the raw in the morning, why not just feed raw for dinner too? I pitched the kibble. So far, I haven’t had any problem feeding Mystery any kind of meat. Unless there’s something inherently wrong with your pup (what’s his name?), everything should be considered fair game (NPI), just keep an eye on him as you introduce new food. Supplementation should be done on an as needed basis.

Since he’s a pup, keep it as simple as possible. I fretted over all sorts of stuff – for no good reason. Mystery’s first few meals consisted of an organic whole chicken that I brought home and cut up myself. It was about five pounds and lasted two days. The liver, neck and gizzards were included so he got those as well. You’ll hear a lot about “balancing over time”. This simply means that you’re to feed 80% muscle, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organs (the balance) over a period of a few days or so. You don’t have to make sure every meal is balanced, just perhaps the week’s meals are.

Mystery’s first couple of weeks weren’t entirely balanced at all while I was trying to locate sources of raw food. When I finally made the decision to go raw, I knew I didn’t want a bunch of frozen patties and chubs. I wanted to feed whole slabs of meat. I’m still working out local sources for purchasing a half a cow here, 20 chicken there, some rabbit… A number of folks here suggested a company that ships whole foods so I started there but the shipping is expensive which is why everyone needs local sources. Do some Google searches for raw food co-ops in your area.

The cost for raw food is definitely more expensive than cheap kibble, however, the tradeoff is that you won’t have as many vet bills to pay because your dog will have an awesome immune system. You will learn though, to shop for deals, look for co-ops, find a friend to share a cow – yeah, you might want to start looking for a freezer so you can spend less by purchasing in bulk.

I could go on, but I’m going to suggest a few more places you will find helpful. One is the LBP raw thread (just two pages), where you’ll find some newbie questions answered: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/. I would also point you to Facebook, something I had no use for until our eighth grandchild was born – okay, the kids kept beating me up about joining, but I now use my page mostly for raw nutrition exchanges with others who are likeminded. There are a number of raw feeding groups – search “raw feeding”. Some are better than others. Search for me – I’m currently using the same image of Mystery for Facebook that I use here, and I’ll share my opinion on which I like and which I don’t. I’ll also check with some Canadian “friends” to see if they’re near you and can help you resource food.

What I’m sharing with you is nothing more than what I have gleaned from forum members here, a weekend-long webinar on raw feeding featuring holistic vets and nutritionists, and folks who attended the conference that have been feeding anywhere from a few months to over 30 years. Just wanted to be clear that I’m still new at this too. And if folks who’ve been feeding raw for 30 years still feel like they can learn something new, I’m happy to be in their company. The raw community is amazing!

[MastiffLove]

Sharon,

Thanks again for your reply!

After talking about all the dog food kibbles and other food types we can give to our puppy and reading and watching videos on http://healthypets.mercola.com/ (thanks HDM) me and my wife decided that we will go raw! It might end up being more costly in the end but at least we will know for sure what is precisely in his dog food and we can have a better control on his diet plus it just makes sense to feed him that way …you don’t find kibbles in the wild!

I’ve ordered Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats Cookbook, Probiotics, Krill Oil and Spirugreen Superfood, that way i’ll have everything on hand for whatever needs our dog has. (just mentioning what i bought so far, still more to come for a complete diet like Coconut Oil and such).

I am currently researching for a meat manufacturer that provides food stores to get the best price, luckily for me there are several in my area.

We have bought the breeders kibble (1st Choice Large pup) for the first 3 weeks, then i was thinking of switching him to Orijen (i know the calcium lvl is a bit high) for the next 2 weeks to get him on a better kibble. Then mix Orijen and Raw to finally end up to only raw.

Should i switch 1st Choice and mix it with raw after the first 3 weeks and increase the raw dosage and skip Orijen entirely?…i don’t know, it would be a faster way to get him on a better and proper food balance but he would be on 1st Choice longer and honestly i really dislike the ingredient in that kibble.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~
Don’t try adding too much to the kibble you feed. All those toppers add to nutrients already in whatever kibble you decide to feed, including perhaps calcium/phosphorus – which should be your primary concern until your Mastiff is at least six to twelve months old. Not saying you shouldn’t add anything, just be mindful of what they’re adding to the diet.

When feeding kibble, it’s unlikely that you’re going to find the perfect food for a large breed puppy. When I brought Mystery home, I’d already done several months of research on food. Although I would have preferred grain-free, I couldn’t find it with an acceptable calcium percentage. I put him on Innova LBP (which has since changed their formula and I’m not sure I’d recommend it now but it’s still better than Pro Plan, Science Diet, Iams and others). I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP when he was about nine months old and able to process excess calcium properly. Orijen will tell you that they shoot for their minimum percentage but as long as they think their maximum is acceptable (and they do hide behind the AAFCO guidelines), I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it in those early months.

Mystery is now a year old and has been on a raw diet for about two months. We’ve transitioned two more Goldens in Korea with my husband and I’m working on four cats (the kitten didn’t need transitioning). If I were to get another puppy today, she’d go straight to raw where calcium/phosphorus is perfectly balanced among protein and organs in a whole-prey diet. And still I don’t add a lot to his diet. He gets coconut oil because of a skin condition, vitamin C and curcumen because of the high cancer mortality in Goldens (though the raw diet and minimalist vaccine schedule will help that as well), and garlic for pest control. I haven’t started adding any fruits & vegetables as I’m still researching their benefits (or lack thereof).

Good to see your note about not feeding RC!

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~
No, no, no – do not feed Royal Canin Giant Puppy just because it has a low calcium. I agree that the calcium should be lower than 1% to start but the food needs to be at least of decent quality. Royal Canin Giant Puppy has virtually no protein whatsoever and only junk fillers in the first five ingredients:
Brewers rice, chicken by-product meal, wheat gluten, corn, corn gluten meal

You need to look over the list of foods that HDM put together at the beginning of this thread. If you’re going to continue feeding kibble, after six months of age you can move your pup to Orijen. In the meantime, find the lowest calcium, grain-free (or limited) giant/large breed puppy food you can. If a company doesn’t list their maximum calcium percentage, call them and ask.

Better yet, go raw!

[MastiffLove]

Hello everyone!

I would love some help in figuring what would be the “best” diet for my dog. Alot of you here seem to have alot of knowledge about this subject and i want to give the best diet to my dog so he will be in top health, shape and growth so he can live a great life without issues due to his diet.

On the 9th of April i am getting my Englsih Mastiff His dad is 220pounds and his mom is around 185 pounds he will be 8 weeks old he is one of the biggest of the litter. I am mentioning this so we can have an idea on an average he could possibly weight once adult and i want to promote growth and size without risking ANY health issues due to exessive or poor feeding.

I’ve been reading for quite awhile and theres so much information to consider that i’m getting overwhelmed with info lolll.

He is currently being fed with First Choice Puppy Medium and Large Breeds (4stars on the reviews here) and i will switch him to Orijen Puppy Large once i feel he feels confortable in his new home (most likely after 3 weeks he’s been here) .

I have read on here that mixing a puppies diet with diferent brands and types of food is a good thing also mixing dry kibbles with canned food is good and/or adding home food to his meals will supplement for whats missing.

But here are my questions:

1.Should i keep him on Orijen after his “switch” has been done until he reaches a certain age/weight or should i right away start “mixing things up” to best his diet?

2. Would any supplements or additives be used as a mixing ingredient to his kibbles?

3. Orijen has a Calcium (min/max) of 1.2/1.5% as wirtten on the 13kg (28.6pnd) bag enough or too much calcium? And could it be clarified, is it per portion served, over the whole bag, in one kiddle alone and such…how does those precentage work? so i can in the furture know what i’m dealing with.

4. Could someone give me a good idea on how to proceed thrue all of this like weeks old you do this, at a certain weight (considering hes not over or under weight and such) you start adding those kind of things…so on and so forth.

I understand theres alot of factors to consider like activity levels, too fat too skinny, etc. and so i will be monitoring his weight and growth weekly thrue his first year so i can spot anything different at a certain event like using a certain type of food or supplement etc. So try to be positive in giving as much detail as you can…i want to learn and i love precise and detailed info.

P.S. I live in Canada Quebec both parents are American living here in case you wish to suggest some food brands please consider i might not have access to it other then by shipping.

Sorry for the loooong post i’m french and i try to be clear on what i’m concerned about.

[LoDoVilla]

Actually I’ve had Charlie on Fromm Gold large breed puppy and it has been amazing for him. We did find out according to his vet that he had a slight case of Giardia which may have accounted for the loose stools. We are also adding pumpkin to his food and the stools are forming nicely now.

[Gina S]

I’m a long time lurker who has a similar issue with my dog. Due to an arrhythmia, mitral valve problem, enlarged heart & pancreatitis issues my dog must be on low sodium, low fat food. At first I had him eating one of the hills prescription diets, but it became too expensive coupled with all his meds (he’s a bit guy who eats a lot). So I began searching for a new food. Here’s what I found:

Wellness dog food: I emailed them recently so this is current
Chicken .14% Sodium 12% fat
Lamb .23% sodium 12% fat
Healthy Weight .11% sodium 6% fat
Senior .11% sodium 10% fat
Simple Grain-Free Salmon 0.29% Sodium 12% fat
Simple Grain-Free Turkey 0.24% Sodium 12% fat
Simple Lamb & Oatmeal 0.20% Sodium 12% fat
Simple Duck & Oatmeal 0.08% Sodium 11 % fat
Core Original 0.53% Sodium 16% fat
Core Ocean 0.69% Sodium 16% fat
Core Reduced Fat 0.50% Sodium 10% fat
Core Small Breed 0.23% Sodium 16% fat
Core Puppy 0.37% Sodium 18% fat
Core Large Breed 0.22 % Sodium 12% fat
Core Wild Game 0.22% Sodium 16% fat

California Natural/Innova/Evo all info about fat & sodium can be found on their website
http://www.naturapet.com/brands/evo
Some of the foods that I do have info on some california naturals
Grain free chicken .34% sodium 12% fat
Grain free kangaroo .26% sodium 11% fat
Chicken & brown rice weigh man. .2% sodium 7% fat
Lamb & brown rice weight man. .24% sodium 7% fat
Chicken & brown rice Senior .19% sodium 8% fat

Tufts University also has a list of dog foods
http://vet.tufts.edu/heartsmart/resources/reduced_sodium_diet_for_dogs.pdf

The food we settled on was Natures Logic Sardine Meal 10% fat and .33% sodium. Their other food while low in sodium are higher in fat.
I’m sure there are many, many more that fit are low fat, low sodium my advice would be to visit their websites and if sodium isn’t listed call or email them. Hope that helps.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Patrick. I don’t have experience with GSD’s specifically, but I do know that large breed puppies have specific dietary needs. You have to have the correct amount and balance of calcium and phosphorous in the food or they could develop orthopedic issues. Also, you must not overfeed. Slow and steady growth is best. The large breed puppy nutrition thread is a great resource.
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/
Hound Dog Mom, a very knowledgeable member made a list of foods appropriate for large breed puppy growth. All foods on the list are 4 or 5 stars. See here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit

There are some affordable 4 and 5 star foods that won’t break the bank. You can get the best selection and price by ordering online. I like Chewy.com and Petflow.com. Both ship free with a $49 order. The most affordable foods with grain from the list are: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, Nutrisource Large Breed Puppy, and Victor Select (Chicken & Rice or Lamb & Rice). The most affordable grain-free is Earthborn Holistic (Meadow Feast or Coastal Catch). Other grain-free foods I would consider are Wellness Core Puppy and Nature’s Variety Instinct Turkey. Grain-free foods are more expensive but you can offset the cost of feeding grain-free by alternating with grain-inclusive foods as long as your dog tolerates both. It’s best to rotate through different foods and not feed the same thing all the time. I hope this helps. Someone else may chime in and give you more specifics about GSD’s specifically.

[theBCnut]

Long haired chihuahuas have shorter hair than some shorthaired large breeds, so you can’t just go by length. A shorthaired toy breed should have hair under 1 inch, so he might be medium haired. Both JRTs and Rat Terriers can be wirehaired which is longer than shorthaired. You will have to be the best judge for our purposes. Even a medium coated breed would benefit from the rubber kong brush, they just grab long hair too much, of course that may be what you need at this point.

If he is very sensitive to flea bites, to the point where he has given himself sores in the past, that could be the cause of the dander. He could have very sensitive skin and have a mild allergic reaction to flea bites. Unfortunately with bite allergies, one bite can trigger a reaction that doesn’t completely go away for a week or more.

As for what is too much dander, at any given time, I can see a couple flakes on my completely normal dog, but it would be odd for me to see enough to be sure where it was coming from, or to see more than just a few flakes at one time on his whole body. BUT, some dogs do naturally have more dander than that, so if you aren’t seeing a bunch of flakes every time you rub his fur the wrong way, then your “expert” may just be overreacting.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by theBCnut.

[Patrick E]

I have a question for those out there who have experience with German Shepherds. I have a 12 week old male German Shepherd, and he is very active. I would like some feeding advice on habits, frequency, and brand advice. I’ve seen some negative comments here on the manufacturer of Diamond, unfortunately for me the breeders have fed the puppies nothing but straight up Diamond brand Lamb and Rice. They have also told me to keep the bowl full at all times, which I already knew was bad advice. I just want to make sure that my Dodger is going to be as healthy as possible. Problem is all these 5 star rated dry foods that I have been seeing range from $60-$70 per 20lb bag. Hence the frequency and amount for puppy. Is the bag going to last me a week? 2 weeks? Just some friendly advice is very welcome!

[jenirose123]

I have a 2 1/2 year old American Bulldog, 115lbs at last vet visit,
who has so many issues with food. When we try to change him he has such tummy issues
that we really try not to unless we have to. When we got him the breeder had him on Royal Canin, that caused him to have repeated ear infections and loose stools as well as on occasion he would lick his paws and legs from itching. So we switched to Nutro Natural Choice Sensitive venison and rice which solved all issues except it caused a new one, he was now gagging and vomiting a lot because the kibble was tiny. So after one bag we stay with Nutro but switched to the large breed lamb and brown rice as the sensitive does not have a “large breed” option. He is doing fine as to the stools, ear infections, and licking. The vomiting is less but still present and omg the gas he has will clear a room! I know or at least I’m pretty sure these issues are due to the fact that he gobbles the kibble it is still so much smaller then what the Royal Canin was, even with the large breed. We have tried putting a blocker in his bowl but really he doesn’t gobble so much as swallow whole they are just to small. So really what I’m asking for I guess is either another idea on how to make this food work or suggestions on a similar food with larger kibble size. Thanks!

[LoDoVilla]

Aah, that would explain why Pet Supplies Plus had all the Acana Regionals and not Large Breed. There are a lot of great pet stores in my area, I’ve come to find, and they all recommended Fromm. I just started adding pumpkin to the Orijen I have now to help.

I am an absolute NUT when it comes to dog food 🙂 The Chinese takeover of human ingredients is bad enough, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to allow my dog to eat it.

[Mom2Cavs]

Yes, their regular line is not available in the USA. Don’t know why, really. Merrick would be a fine substitution if your dog tolerates it. I personally like Annamaet or Dr. Tim’s, or Victors. Wellness Core is good, too. Lots of people love Fromm. I do, too, except I use their grain inclusive foods. We can get the Acana LIDs, or Singles, here in the States so if they’re suitable for a large breed pup then maybe you could try one of those. We can also get the Regionals, but I’m not sure about large breed pups. Remember, too, that the Singles do contain oatmeal.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[LoDoVilla]

Well, while Charlie adores his Orijen, his stools do not. My vet has recommended a much lower protein content, so we decided on Acana Large Breed Puppy…which I can’t find. Anywhere. Any other suggestions? Merrick?

Thanks!

[Jackie B]

/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/
This existing post is VERY long but should answer most any question on large breed dogs/pups.

[Naturella]

Ever since I was little and saw the movie “Fluke”, I have been in love with Irish Setters. I adore their coat color (copper-ish, looks like a shiny Fall leaf, it is gorgeous). Also, as of recently, I like Australian Shepherds – really pretty dogs! I am noticing an affinity in me toward longer-haired, flowy, copper-ish/brown/golden coats. I have never owned a setter or an Aussie, yet, and maybe won’t ever (I would MUCH rather adopt a mutt in need than buy a pure-breed), so I can’t speak as to their personalities, but beauty-wise, those are my picks.

As for character, of course, I love my furry baby (not a baby anymore – he is a big guy at 13 lbs and around 1 year old now) Bruno. I would rarely choose a small breed over a medium or large breed, but he stole my husband’s, and then my heart too. We love his face, muscular body (yes, he is STRONG for a 13-lb pup. One of his nicknames is “muscle-pup”), soft fur, pied pattern, everything about him. Because of him, I notice more Rat terriers/Jack Russells and have a positive view of them. But unless another little one steals our hearts again, I would like a bigger dog for our next friend.

I have noticed, at least locally, when I take Bruno to the dog park, we enter a dilemma – he loves to play and rough-house with big dogs, so we put him in the big dog pen, and sometimes owners of larger dogs get nervous for the little guy and pull their dog away when they start roughing it with Bruno. So sometimes he can’t even play much because of his size. On the other hand, when at the small dog pen, a lot of small dog owners freak out at the slightest grunt (he is a vocal one… Never aggressive, just likes to snort, grunt, growl, and sneeze a ton during play) or hump from Bruno because they fear for their little yorkies or chihuahuas. So he doesn’t get to play much there either… I feel like often he just doesn’t like to play with small dogs period. So thank goodness he has some good small and big furry friends to schedule play dates with and rough-house galore! 🙂

[goldenmom]

I know elk antlers have calcium in them so are they ok to give my large breed puppy?

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Newfs,

Where are you located? I believe no one has responded yet because these dog foods aren’t available in the US where most of us are. The Farmina brand has been reviewed on this site but only the grain-free varieties. They received 5 stars. /dog-food-reviews/farmina-nd-grain-free-dog-food/

As Patty said, your dog is old enough now that you don’t have to worry about feeding a food appropriate for large breed puppy growth. This is what I look for in a good dog food: 30% or more protein with named meat or meat meals (ie chicken and chicken meal) and grain-free (some grains are ok if your dog does well with them, I still wouldn’t feed grains all the time).

The Enova food that you posted the analysis for looks good. The two Farmina links you posted look like good foods too. All 3 of those foods have 30% protein or higher. I prefer higher protein foods. I don’t like the Sam’s Field foods because they are lower protein. I would not feed the Fitmin foods. The Salmon & Potato has WAY too much potato (40%) and low protein. The first and major ingredient should be protein not carbohydrate. The Fitmin Rabbit & Rice has the same problem but to a lesser extent. It has 28% rice and 25% meat. Still to much carbohydrate and low protein. I would avoid foods with that much carbohydrate.

Bottomline: The Enova and Farmina foods look good. If you want to feed more variety, look for foods similar to those. Stay away from foods that have more carbohydrates than protein.

I hope that answered your questions and was helpful.

[Newfs]

Hello,
I recall to my question.
Very counting on your answers.
Regards
Newfs
” Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ? “

[Lori]

Does anyone on the forum have an American Cocker Spaniel? I’m feeding him the same food as my Lab. Should I be feeding 2 separate foods (large/small breed). He also needs to lose a couple of pounds. I’m feeding them both Whole Earth Farms (not the grain free) for the past 2 weeks. This food seems greasy to me, but I don’t know if that matters or not. The other food I have is Premium Edge Healthy Weight I and Fromms Pork and Applesauce.

[Akari_32]

Hey guys!

I had a little bit of time to kill (yay for 3 am…?), so I went through and refined my list to 25% protein and above, and 450 calories per cup and above. There are also three that were close and cheap enough for me to maybe one day consider, which are separated at the end. This really helps me narrow down my food choices! There were so many I really didn’t even know where to begin, other than with Nutrisource because it’s available locally now. Anyways, heres my list!

Dr. Tim’s Pursuit Active
Merrick Classic Puppy Real Chicken, Brown Rice and Green Apple
Healthwise Chicken Meal and Oatmeal
Nutrisource Performance
Nutrisource Super Performance
Nutrisource Small and Medium Breed Puppy Chicken and Rice
Nutrisource Grain Free Chicken
Nutrisource Grain Free Lamb

Precise Endurance Formula
Precise Small and Medium Breed Puppy
Eagle Pack Power

Also on my mental list is Diamond Naturals and Grain Free (BIG maybe. That one will depend on finances, really), Wellness Small Breed Complete Health Toy, and Wellness Small Breed Complete Health Puppy. I plan on going to the local pet store tomorrow and seeing what of these they can order, and how much they would be. I also have to go to Pet Supermarket and confirm that they have the two Wellness foods, and their prices for the small bags (which I will only purchase with coupons, given the price), because their website SUCKS.

Why is it that small breed foods always look better than large breed ones? Dog food should be dog food, I’m just sayin’!

[Shasta220]

I feed my dogs Diamond Naturals, solely because it’s the most affordable 4-star food we have around here. I really hope your dogs do well on it. My younger ones are doing great on it, the older lab is starting to get a bit of extra grease again. She did better on other foods, but we just can’t afford them anymore.

If you have a Costco nearby (assuming you’re able to get the bigger bags), and your dogs do well on Diamond Naturals, then try looking into their Kirkland food. It’s made by Diamond, and the ingredients are very similar. About 25-30$ for a 40lb bag, and DN for me is about 33-40$ for a 40lb bag – very affordable 🙂

Ah good, I’m glad dchassett agrees with me that toy breeds do NOT need the breed specific food.

Come to think of it, DN foods are 4-star, then Extreme Athlete and Small Breed Puppy were 5-star (I haven’t looked at the ingredients to compare with other varieties yet). I wouldn’t see what would be wrong with feeding the puppy formula to other dogs, even larger adult dogs – if all the ingredients are quality and the nutrition is balanced.

[Dori]

My three dogs are toy breeds. I have a Yorkipoo, Maltipoo and a Maltese. I have never fed, nor would I a specialized food for toy dogs. My Maltese is 14 years old she averages between 7.6 and 8 lbs., My 4 1/2 year old Maltipoo averages 7 – 7.3 lbs, and my 4 1/2 year old Yorkipoo is 5 lbs. I do not have large dogs nor have I ever. Toy breeds do NOT need a special dog formula. Pet Food manufacturers just market it that way to get the toy breed market. It is typically more expensive and there is no need for it. Science Diet, Iams, Purina and Pedigree are some of the worst worst foods you can feed your toys. I don’t believe you will find to many people disagree with me. Yes, are there people feeding there dogs these foods? Absolutely. But in the long run (sometimes not so long), their nutrition will pay the price. If finances warrant that you don’t buy some foods because of the price than you look for a quality grain, rice, white potato, soy free food food. There are so many out there and there are also sites that are always having sales. I would encourage you to never buy the large bags. Toy breeds do not eat a lot and the oils in the large bags will go rancid before the bag is finished. 60 lb. bags are a helluva lot of food. The money you will save, and you will, by not having to spend your time and money at the vet because of many issues that can be attributed to nutrition will allow you to have your dogs on a better food. I’m sorry if I sound like I’m dictating what you should feed your dogs but I guess I am. I can say all this through trial, error and many many years of experience. I am 65 years old and have had dogs (all toys) since I was quite young. Just trying to help. I have no stock or relatives working for any dogs foods I’m just an obsessed dog lover and want the very best for all of them not just mine. We’re a group on dogfoodadvisor that believe that our dogs are our family members.

[InkedMarie]

Go to, I think, the diet and health forum here and read the stickie on feeding large breed puppies. I think the list of appropriate foods is on page 15 but maybe someone will post the link for you (I’m on my iPad & can’t)

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
Just a bit of additional info on some of the ingredients I mentioned that I look out for.

1. Rosemary Extract – Our oldest Golden started having seizures when she was about 3 years old. As Sunset got older her seizures increased so our vet put her on Phenobarbital, a dosage I eventually decreased as she seemed dazed most of the time. When I started researching food for our newest Golden, I discovered an article on the relationship between rosemary extract and increased seizures in humans that have them. If rosemary extract can exacerbate seizures in humans, it goes that it would do the same in a dog with seizures. I immediately got ahold of my husband in Korea and told him to stop feeding Blue Wilderness. Unfortunately, he’s at the mercy of the commissary and they just don’t have any quality foods. As it turned out, she died from cancer at the end of January, she was almost 11. Some dog foods list rosemary, others list rosemary extract. I avoided all extract recipes when I was trying to find a better food for Sunset. There was no indication that rosemary extract causes seizures so it isn’t a concern with Mystery nor the Golden my husband recently adopted. If either started seizing, then rosemary would be a concern again.

2. Canola Oil – We love our Goldens. In the United States, about 69% of all Golden Retrievers over the age of two will die from cancer. Our Sunset joined that 69%. Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever. Both of his parents are from Russia. European Goldens have a cancer mortality rate of about 36%. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation Lifetime Golden Retriever Study on cancer. They have told me there are a few other English Cremes in the study and they’re hoping to find out why there is such a disparity between the two types (having lived in three different European countries, I suspect environment and food are most likely). I feel it is my responsibility to ensure my pup dies from old age, not cancer so it is important to me to avoid even a breath of a link between an ingredient and cancer. Canola is one of those ingredients. This article: http://cancercompassalternateroute.com/diet/avoid-canola-oil/ will tell you more about the relationship between GMOs, rapeseed, canola oil and cancer. It’s not the only one, but it’s clear.

3. Garlic – One I didn’t mention, but there are enough conflicting views on it that I took time to look it up last year. Just like onions and chocolate, I don’t give my babies fresh garlic. I do however, add it to his diet as a garlic supplement because I believe that in the correct form and amount, it has benefits.

As to your most recent post regarding sources for raw food – I moved my answer over to the LBP topic at the raw forum since it’s more appropriate there. You can find it here: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33978 It’s only one of seven pages of topics on feeding raw that you’ll find helpful.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
In answer to your question from the Large and Giant Breed Nutrition forum about raw sourcing:

I decided a few weeks ago that the best diet for Mystery would be raw. Having made that decision, I didn’t think I should wait just because I didn’t have a local source for meat so I started pounding around the raw food thread and large breed raw thread. I asked questions about how to start, what to feed… I knew I wasn’t interested in freeze-dried or frozen patties – my boy is going to eat “manly” meat, where I could find a reliable, trustworthy online place to get meat and poultry and any other essential real food to get me through a search period. Based on recommendations here, I chose My Pet Carnivore (MPC).

Since I would have to wait for my first shipment, I headed to the grocery store, picked up a non-GMO, organic whole chicken as well as some meat with bones in them. I pulled out my German meat cleaver and a cutting board with grooves and discovered an expensive knife and cutting board does not make one a butcher. Next time I’m just going to give it to the meat department and tell them to hack it up for me.

Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list). I may be able to get half of a cow in a few weeks at $2/lb. So, I have a 20 cu.ft. freezer arriving on Saturday and I continue to look at local resources including a dairy farm where they usually put down male calves, as well as chicken, goat and other natural farmed animals. Until then, I’m happy using MPC for all of my meat. I received my second shipment from them today, thank goodness – twice what I ordered the first time and I feel better about the balance of foods. MPC sells a number of balanced grinds – chicken, tripe/organs/etc. They also sell fine ground meats (I assume for small dogs), as well as coarse grind.

So, the answer to your question is – yes, you can buy from a reputable market. It’s cheaper in the long run since you don’t have to pay high shipping fees to ensure frozen mean doesn’t thaw before it arrives. (If you live near MPC they have pickup points.) The first local meat market I called not only couldn’t tell me whether the meat they sell is GMO free but they seemed irritated that I asked. Not going there! I’m also looking for a co-op of folks who are feeding raw but that is turning out to be more difficult to find than I expected.

As for supplements, I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

In addition to all the help you’ll get here, if you go to mypetcarnivore.com, whether you intend to buy or not, they have some links to some great articles on feeding raw – right side, about half way down the homepage. If you sign up for Dogs Naturally Magazine, they email you a link to download their Raw Food Primer.

There are folks here who are much smarter about all of this than I am (which is why I’m here), and they have been really helpful during my transition to raw. Keep asking those questions!

[SnorkletsMom]

Hi! I have read most of this site and a lot of other sites, I have spoken to our vet…now I’m looking for opinions or tips for our puppies. They are 6 months old, one male, one female, probably 60 lbs +/- they are half Golden Retriever, half St. Bernard. Their breeder fed them Purina puppy chow, which I refused to continue. We have tried a few brands, some with terrible results. The best so far has been Purina Pro Plan Focus Large Breed Puppy. But as I’ve looked around, it does not seem to be a suggested good food. I’d like to find the best I can, but hopefully not the highest price, money is tight right now. Calcium, phosphorus, protein, etc. can be confusing after a while! Our vet is fine with the Purina, but I’d like your opinions. Also…should we be giving them any supplements? And exercise…a lot or not? (Vet said not) All tips are welcome, I’ve never had giant dogs before. Thanks!