[anonymous]

I lost a dog to Lyme disease, kidney damage had occurred by the time it was correctly diagnosed (the symptoms were subtle and the first vet or two assumed they were age related).
Two years of hell trying to keep that poor dog comfortable.
The best solution is to find a vet that you trust, ask questions and evaluate your options, negotiate.
The natural stuff doesn’t work, it’s all a scam.

[Alexander A]

I know most people turn up their noses at it, but Pedigree has worked wonders for my older dog who had so many health issues going on at the same time, one contributed to the worsening of another, until he was diagnosed with kidney disease about three months ago. He had chronic (i.e., daily) diarrhea, abdominal pain, and was urinating blood at one point. After the diagnosis of kidney disease, he was on Hill’s k/d canned and a specially tailored home made diet for renal patients. It was expensive, time consuming, and honestly, even on boiled chicken and rice he had issues with soft, frequent bowel movements 🙁

At the recommendation of our Vet, we substituted the k/d for dry Pedigree Lamb & Rice.

Moose’s problems started around December of 2015. From that point until late January of 2017, he hadn’t had a single normal bowel movement. He was going quite often, but the first day we mixed in Pedigree with some home cooked, he went the entire day without having a poo accident in the house. When he finally did go, his stool was normal, hard and formed, passed without any pain.

He’s been to the Vet since starting out on it, and his BUN & blood creatinine levels drastically improved.

The Lamb & Rice food is 21% protein/10% fat/0.8% phosphorous. I know the ingredient list isn’t fancy, but the food is made from American sources and has an excellent balance of nutrients. I’ve since switched my other dogs to it. The 10 year old with allergies and very bad problems with reverse sneezing has seen a DRASTIC reduction in breathing issues. Her tear stains are not gone but visibly lessened, and an old ear infection that never responded to antibiotics has cleared up. Needless to say, I’m very happy with the quality of this brand, even though it’s something I wouldn’t ordinarily have tried.

[Alexander A]

My 8yr old Jack Russell terrier was diagnosed with chronic kidney disease in December. He’d been having intermittent diarrhea/loose stools for 10 months and was prescribed three different antibiotics during that time. His condition, just from the frequent & loose stools, deteriorated over the summer to such an extent that I considered having him euthanized. When he started urinating blood, I took him to a different Vet who made the diagnosis and put him on Science Diet k/d canned food, which was too expensive to be permanent.

He improved on that food, though, and I started cooking for him using Dr. Pitcarin’s Complete Guide To Natural Health For Dogs & Cats. He has some good recipes in there but only two or three for kidney disease. He was urinating less (he was going copiously & frequently) on the combination of canned/home made, but he was rail thin and nothing we could do kept weight on him. His stools were less frequent but still very soft.

When we ran out of the prescription food, I asked the Vet if we could substitute for one of Science Diet’s OTC low protein formulas. He told me there was no need and recommended Pedigree Lamb & Rice instead.

So we started him on Pedigree very slowly, mixing a handful of kibble with rice and boiled liver on Saturday morning about a month ago.

I am sorry for rambling on like this, but the difference was just unbelievable from that first bowl. When I walked him later on, he was frolicking in the snow, jumping over snowdrifts, and being happy to be outside. His personality was back full force; rolling on the couch, showing interest in toys, and that night, after two small meals of the Pedigree, he had his first normal bowel movement in a year.

A month later, and his last blood test showed SIGNIFICANT improvements in his BUN and blood creatinine levels. He has gained enough weight that he has “substance” again, not just a rack of bones with a bit of fat on them. He has muscle mass and energy. His potassium levels are normal. He had been chronically dehydrated before, even to an extent on the canned k/d.

So, yeah. This is my very long winded way of saying if you are looking for a low protein, fat, and moderately low phosphorous food, IMHO, Pedigree is a VERY good option.

[Amy S]

My vet diagnosed our 11yr Wheaten with beginning stages of kidney disease. She said, at this point he doesn’t need meds and said a new dry food with low protein would work fine. She suggested Royal Canine. I think it’s a prescription food. My dog was eating Acana dry and loved it. I looked at Neo but it wasn’t rated very well. Recalls and foods “made” in China concern me. Can anyone recommend a dry food for me? Prefer something I can get without a script but will consider something that does. I just want a good food. Pricing is not really a concern because I’ll be willing to give my pet the best.

[Brenda G]

veza2017 I’m sorry to hear your pet is sick. Kidney disease is a wide variety of levels so you need to look at the words the vet used. “acute” means early so if the vet said Acute Renal failure it means that your dog is showing “early” signs of kidney (renal) failure. I wrote a long message just above explaining how I chose my dogs dog food to help with what was termed “Acute Renal Failure” It means the dogs numbers are showing that the kidneys are not preforming at 100% but doesn’t mean the dog is headed for the rainbow bridge. It also doesn’t mean that your dog is a lost cause. There are products on the market that can promote healthy kidney behavior. I never used them with my dog I used a brand of dog food with low phosphorus and low protein. So this is the question… Did your pet eat something like wild onions or antifreeze? Or is this a case of your dog is getting older and starting to decline in heath. Each dog is different so the signs of your dogs kidneys might not be the same signs as my dogs problem. Most dogs that are in renal failure are very thirst but not really hungry. My dog was both thirsty and hungry. So heres the flat out straight forward response from petmd.

“PetMD notes that several indicators of chronic renal failure are often observed by the veterinarian upon examination of the dog and are often present in the dog’s blood tests and urinalysis. Elevated blood pressure in a dog is an indication of kidney problems since kidneys regulate blood pressure. Blood tests that reveal the dog has anemia may indicate kidney issues. Indicators found during urinalysis of the dog’s urine include abnormal electrolyte levels, elevated levels of protein enzymes, such as creatinine and high blood urea nitrogen.
If the urine is neither concentrated nor dilute, then the kidneys are not processing urine correctly and likely are failing. Since kidney failure often causes kidneys to shrink, observation via X-ray or ultrasound imaging that the dog’s kidneys are abnormally small may point to kidney failure, according to PetMD.”

Your vet should have preformed several tests. One being a blood test to indicate kidney function second should have been a xray and third should have been a urinalysis or fecal exam. Also age and breed play a part in this. If your vet didn’t do these tests seek a second opinion immediately because it could be something like a hernia or something simple that can be fixed but if not fixed in time it could cost you and your dog.

[veza2017]

Need help Im lost the vet hasn’t explained to me what to expect just to give low profile diet I refused the hill diet they were so heavily trying to get me to buy. She was diagnosed yesterday with kidney disease I took her in I though the bone someone gave her punctured her pancreas she had thrown up and runny poop. I’m lost

[anonymous]

If the odor of urine is emanating from the dogs body and breath, the dog needs medical attention. Uremia is indicative of end stage kidney disease.
I would take the dog it the vet.

[anonymous]

I can’t read your post, however, just going by your “topic”
Has the dog had lab work done lately?
The only dog I ever had that smelled like urine was suffering from uremia, a symptom of kidney disease. She had kidney damage due to Lyme disease that was not diagnosed in time. Go to the vet.

[Laura L]

I need advice for my 15+ yr old Affen. I’m new; please forgive me if I’m asking you to repeat advice given previously- I feel like time is of the essence, & I can’t process everything I’m researching all at once. Donald has heart murmur/ recent trip to heart dr/ received good report. She said discontinue enalapril or switch to benazepril. He also takes VetMedin; Lasix; Denamarin. He also has Cushings & was taking Vetoryl until last week.
11/23 was first blood work in a while- I didn’t realize the signs of kidney disease earlier. We also moved recently & had to find new vet. 11/23: BUN 88/ CREA 2.6. SubQ fluids. Acupuncture 11/29 (for arthritis) & holistic vet gave me homemade food recipe, which I fed that Tues/Wed/Thurs. D smelled like ammonia after food. BUN went to >130; CREA 2.0. Then went ER vet for iv fluids (careful to watch heart condition.) He started canned kidney diet. On 12/03, BUN 97; CREA 1.7. SubQ fluids 3x / week & BUN & CREA decrease: 65 & 1.9; 57 & 1.7. I added Azodyl somewhere around this time. 12/15/16: heart dr says discontinue enalapril & clears D for teeth cleaning. Had urine protein test at this time/ it was good (like 2, on a scale to 5.) 12/22: BUN 37 & CREA 1.4. 1/06/17: BUN 41/ CREA 1.3 (I think at this pt we had moved to fluids 2x/ week.) 1/13/17: BUN: 49 CREA 1.3. (Note: D had acupuncture again.) The next week D vomited bile on Wed & Sun and wouldn’t eat. We stopped Vetoryl (I know NOW that it’s bad for filtration & bad with ace inhibitor & with diuretic.) Ate a little rice; broth; chicken but would vomit it. 1/18/17: BUN 90 CREA 1.8. 1/20/17: BUN 107 CREA 1.6. Back to ER vet for iv fluids. 01/21/17: BUN: 83 CREA 1.9. 1/23/17: BUN 70; CREA 2.3. He’s had phosphate binders during both ER trips. I’ve ordered a renal supplement, B vitamins, & omega 3s. What else can I do? Would you feed Darwins even though it has high phosphates? Doesn’t Darwins have a binder in it? Would you try homemade? – I’m hesitant since my only attempt sent his BUN off the charts. Do you think accupuncture could have helped cushings enough to cause an overdose effect since he was taking Vetoryl? Apologies for the long post- Would love any thoughts- it’s a hilly, scary road, & I need you, fellow travelers. Much love -le

[Angie S]

Hi Shawna
I need advise regarding my dog’s kidney issues please

Is sweet potatoe safe to give? He’s been losing weight due to both kidney n heart disease and I would like to add some carbs in his diet.

Currently he’s on hills prescription KD canned food.

May I know how can I buy the standard process supplements? I wrote to them and was told that they are only available via Vet’s office and I can’t buy from them directly

But I’m really desperate to find them. Any advise for me? Thanks

Angie

[David H]

Yes, organic cold pressed has numerous heath benefits. High purine foods, and dry foods are what is hardest on your dogs kidneys. Fat gives them extra calories that do not work the kidneys. A side note. Feed your dog the moistest food as possible. The problem with kidney disease is they can not drink enough fluids to keep the kidneys flushed. I had a golden that had kidney disease from age 10 on. She lived to be over 15 yrs. I gave her coconut oil for as long as she would eat it. Good luck!

[Roberta A]

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could recommend a gravy or sauce. I have a 16 year old Yorkie who has become very picky. She is on a raw diet, has been since she was 5. Anything that is dry and crumbled she will pick it out of her food and leave the food so must be a something that coats her food. My criteria is: It must be human grade, must be made in USA, and not full of chemicals, dies or the unexplainable bad stuff companies use in pet food.
I have been making my own broth but it is quite labor intensive for only 2 tablespoons over her food when in 2 or 3 days she’s over it and I’m forced to find something different. Currently I’m using human gravy from a jar it comes in several favors but the sodium isn’t great but she eats. She will go days without eating and that makes me more nervous than the sodium.
She is on Standard Process renal support 1/8 tsp Am and Pm in her food and she absolutely hates it this is what has caused her to become picky, but she has to have it her kidneys are showing signs of kidney disease Standard Process is making a difference. Can you suggest something?

[anonymous]

“Also, do you think that adding Vitamin C will help with getting rid of her Giardia?”
It would be best to consult your vet before adding any supplements, you have already indicated that your dog needs pediatric dosages of medication due to her size.

Risks Associated with Vitamin C
Even promoters of vitamin C recognize the risk associated with too much vitamin C. Excess vitamin C is excreted through the kidneys, but too much can cause flatulence and diarrhea. This level varies with a dog’s age, size and breed.
Critics contend that feeding a healthy dog vitamin C is equivalent to feeding thyroid medication to a dog with a healthy thyroid and predict problems with the kidney and liver associated with vitamin C overdose.
The National Resource Council ran 24 tests on vitamin C in dogs in the 1980s, and all concluded that vitamin C should not be used to supplement a dog’s diet. One of the studies linked supplemental vitamin C with skeletal disease in Labrador retriever puppies. However, the the American Association of Feed Control Officials (AAFCO), designated the governing body for the pet food industry, labeled these tests invalid in 1994 on the basis that they are too old. (excerpt from https://www.vetinfo.com/vitamin-c-dogs.html)

[Jake T]

I was given hill’s K/D by my vet but I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions for other options that I could feed her that might be a little cheaper or better. I’m not a huge fan of science diet. Any other suggestions you have would be appreciated I just found out she had kidney disease recently so I’m new to all of this. I have a 44 pound Irish terrier she is about ten years old.

[zcRiley]

Urinary tract infection or kidney disease is usually the cause of very strong urine smells emitting from a pet’s skin/fur. It’s not from food. Time to run those tests at the vet.

[anonymous]

I can’t respond in the “Members Only” section as I am on a fixed income and can’t afford the $15 membership fee at this time.

I do want to suggest that you take your dog to the vet for a checkup asap, if you haven’t already. Lab work and an examination should be done to rule out kidney disease and other medical causes for the abnormal body odor.

[anonymous]

I think it would be best to ask the veterinarian that is treating your dog, dogs that have kidney disease tend to be nauseous. Food supplements often interact with prescription meds.
Your dog has a history of medical problems, plus he is a senior. Coconut oil is high in fat and calorie content. The younger dog may tolerate it, but the older one, not so much.
Hope this helps:

Coconut Oil for Pets?

[Patti S]

I have a golden who will be 13 in Feb. He has CKD. I just bought some coconut oil and am giving it to my younger golden but want to know if I can give it to him even though he has kidney problems. He is on enalapril for his kidneys and thyrocare for thyroid..
Thank you very much…

Patti

• This topic was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by Patti S.

[anonymous]

By IV treatments I assume you mean sub q fluids. I went through this with a dog that had kidney damage due to Lyme disease that was not diagnosed in time.
Anyway, I gave her sub q fluids once a day, and it helped as it is similar to dialysis.
Kidney damage can’t be reversed. She lasted a couple of years this way, some good days, some bad days. Prescription food helped, but most supplements are a scam in my opinion.
Listen to your vet, beware of homeopathic vets, there are no miracle cures. Pain meds prescribed by the vet were helpful.
Some science based information here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/

[Daisy F]

Hello All,

On Monday, of this week 10/17/16, I received the call from the vet, after determining blood results, that my beloved mini schnauzer Lily (12.5 years old – and have had her since 3 months) is diagnosed with in the beginning stages of chronic kidney disease. She has the physical symptoms of excessive drinking, excessive urinating inside, and lost of weight (stable 16.5 lbs down to 12 lbs). Her appetite is still there; however; as the vet encourages me this is still a good sign for her.

I am not resorting to putting on diapers for her as, she is my baby, and has always been spoiled; and it makes me sad to have to resort to diapers in order to prevent urination on our wooden floors, but an easy 30 second clean-up I do not mind doing.

Anyway, here are her important blood results:

BUN 38 (normal range 7-25)
PHOS 7.0 (normal range 2.9-6.6)
CRE 1.7 (normal range 0.3-1.4)

Vet instructed to start providing her Hills k/d canned food diet, and as I looked on the reviews online; all are fantastic (low sodium, low phosphorus, low protein) diet, although vet said reducing her protein is not necessarily suggested at this point because her protein levels are fine. So I guess my question is what sorts of fresh homemade food am I able to still provide to her in combination of the Hills k/d diet? Keeping in mind her sodium levels and phosphorus levels need to be given in low amounts? What foods are these? Ive researched but become overwhelmed with the information given and then it feels like its contradicting to other materials and feel lost and confused and not as confident about providing the nutrition she needs; without going broke on my end. Money is not a huge issue for me; but with the prescribed canned diet; alone- it will be difficult to manage that on itself.

Lily also started taking prebiotic and probiotic supplements to aide. Any other supplements I should know about? I am taking her back to the vet today after work; since the vet also suggested starting her on fluid therapy to help keep her hydrated. She will be instructing me how to do it at home and Lily wouldn’t need it all the time; but would need to keep an eye on her.

She went in for her first IV treatment yesterday (as the first step towards her supportive care) and started her prescribed diet. Her personality is still all there; and I know she is getting much older; I would just appreciate anything descriptive resource/link that would help me in this difficult process and definitely a new lifestyle change for my babygirl.

I took the day of work yesterday, since I was still in tears finding out about her disease and how serious it could get so I was able to do my own research.

I have found this website http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneymedical.html#acidosis to be helpful as well.

If you have any questions for me about her condition; I will certainly answer them; any information helps 🙂

Momma Daisy

[Theodore L]

I wrote to ZiwiPeaks about their food since we have a dog with IBD. The following is their email to me: Hi Theodore:
Thank you for your inquiry. We are thrilled that you are looking into feeding ZiwiPeak. We are passionate about pets, and strive to produce the best foods available for our furry friends! Many pet parents with dogs (and cats) suffering from IBS / IBD have found ZiwiPeak to be the perfect diet for their fur babies, due to the lack of fillers, preservatives, grains and other ingredients completely unsuitable to a carnivore’s digestive system. One of the ingredients that is included in ALL ZiwiPeak recipes is cold-washed green tripe. Green tripe is a powerhouse of nutrients, is extremely digestible and palatable and contains probiotics/prebiotics and digestive enzymes which help establish a healthy gut. I will be asking our Office Assistant to mail you a sample packet, and I’ve attached a guide for transitioning your dog. Please refer to the feeding calculator on our website’s homepage for the recommended daily serving. http://www.ziwipeak.com

Here’s some basic information about ZiwiPeak:

All ZiwiPeak recipes and formulas are complete and balanced as a daily diet for ALL breeds, and for ALL life stages. To determine your pet’s recommended feeding amount, please use the feeding calculator on our website’s homepage: http://www.ziwipeak.com

ZiwiPeak gives your pet the equivalent of a raw, wild prey diet and is made from over 95% raw meat and organs, including natural fat and bone. Our food contains no rendered meats or meat by-products. We add no artificial colors or flavors, no carrageenan, no chemical preservatives, no grains or potatoes, and no added salts, sugars, gelatin or glycerines or cheap filler ingredients. These ingredients cannot be efficiently utilized by a carnivore’s digestive system and can contribute to various health issues, including skin & coat problems, itchy skin and ears, yeast infections, allergies, obesity, kidney disease, IBD/IBS and diabetes. ZiwiPeak cuisine is over 95% digestible and extremely palatable to even the most finicky dogs and cats.

ZiwiPeak uses free-range, grass-fed meat raised on traceable, approved New Zealand farms, and seafood caught using ecologically-sustainable practices under New Zealand’s stringent, government-controlled, fish-management system. All meat and seafood we use must be free from added hormones, antibiotics, growth promotants and GMOs. Our added vitamins and minerals are sourced from reputable, traceable suppliers in the USA, Europe and New Zealand and Japan. We do not source any ingredients from China.

We add New Zealand Green-Lipped Mussel to all ZiwiPeak formulas to provide high levels of natural glucosamine, chondroitin, and omega 3 and 6 essential fatty acids, and cold-washed green tripe, which provides important vitamins & minerals, digestive enzymes and probiotics needed for healthy digestion. We are relentless in our commitment to quality and care, operating under the most stringent health and safety standards. Every batch of ZiwiPeak must meet both our own in-house specifications and the highest international benchmarks. All ZiwiPeak products meet or exceed industry standards.

Please let me know if I can be of additional assistance,
Regards,
I did not write her name since I don’t have her permission. I have been transitioning one healthy guy to this food. I am not ready to do the IBD guy yet since he just had a setback and the Vet (Internist does not want any changes). I received a very fast response – I liked it!

[InkedMarie]

There is someone with kidney disease experience; I messaged her so hopefully she will read.

[Don B]

My 12 yr old pug has early stage kidney disease my vet believes still waiting on tests.he just gave me a supplement for arthritis called phycox Ha. It has creatine monohydrate 90 mg in it.i know with kidney disease it is bad to have high creatinine levels in their blood.will this supplement with creatine raise her levels of creatinine which would make her kidneys work harder and be bad for her.im nor sure and will have to ask the vet but need someone to help now.thanks

[Don B]

Hi I have a 12 yr old pug female who has been diagnosed with kidney disease probably early.Her creatinine blood levels weren’t too bad I think I am waiting on further reports from a urine test.My vet gave me a supplement for her arthritis called phycox ha which I noticed has creatine monohydrate 90 mg in it.she also is on a kidney care diet hills prescription food.we are not sure what stage her disease is at but would that supplement harm her kidneys by working harder with the creatine in it therefore increasing her creatinine blood levels which I thought had to low with kidney disease.i don’t know what to do but if anyone can help I’d appreciate it.I will have to ask my vet but thought maybe someone could give me help with this or any other foods tips on what I gave feed her thanks

[Erin N]

Hi Shawna,

I have a 10 year old Rhodesian Ridgeback that has been diagnosed with stage II kidney disease. I have ordered the Standard Process Renal supplement and working on implanting some raw into her diet. I am very curious about the Nitrogen trapping. Do you have a suggested guideline for how much to give a dog per weight? Mine is ranging from 90-100 lbs (trying to get some weight back on her, currently 95 lbs, but always been 100-105).

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

[theBCnut]

It isn’t common for dogs to retain water unless they have kidney disease or congestive heart failure. However, I just learned from my diabetic brother that people retain about 4-5 pounds of water for each pound of glycogen stored, so maybe dogs do likewise.

As far as Dr Tim’s, it is a good quality food. Any low fat food will have higher carbs. There is no way around that. Fiber is reported as carbs, so you may want to also be aware of fiber content in any food you look at.

[Shawna]

Hi Elyce M,

You are right to question this. There has been LOTS of science over the last 20 years that proves protein is not only not damaging to kidneys but the science has shown that protein does not further damage the kidneys of dogs that HAVE kidney disease. Protein does increase BUN in the blood and if BUN gets too high it makes puppy not feel well but it has no ill effects on the kidneys whatsoever. My favorite source of scientific information on this is “Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function” by Dr. Kenneth Bovee http://www.championpetfoods.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Myths_of_High_Protein.pdf

Something as simple as dehydration can cause elevated BUN but if creatinine is high on the blood work than that is an indicator of kidney disease. Elevated BUN AND creatinine won’t show up on blood work until the kidneys are about 75% damaged so an elevation of both should be looked at more closely by doing more testing – urine specific gravity as an example.

If your pup really is in the beginning stages of kidney failure than lowering protein isn’t necessary but feeding “high quality” protein can be very beneficial. It is also advised to feed a wet food over a kibble. It is also beneficial to look at foods that are lower in phosphorus than your average diet as phosphorus can begin to build up in the blood and once it does it CAN damage the kidneys further.

For what it’s worth, my puppy had kidney disease from birth and ate a HIGH protein raw diet (between 45 and 54% protein) her entire life. She lived to almost nine years of age and passed from complications not related to normal progression of kidney disease.

Seven years of age is not old for a Shih Tzu but they also now know that senior dogs require a diet higher in protein than their adult counterparts due to a decreased ability to digest. This is taken from Purina’s website
“Protein for senior dogs. Healthy senior dogs require increased dietary protein in order to maintain lean body mass. We formulate our senior dog foods to contain more dietary protein (compared to adult maintenance formulas) in order to ensure that your dog gets the appropriate levels of nutritious protein he needs.” https://www.purina.com/dogs/understanding-dog-food/is-a-high-protein-diet-best-for-my-dog

Most better quality diets already exceed the minimum suggested for seniors of 25% (minimum not suggested amount) but this is a science based paper discussing the increased needs of protein in senior dogs. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18656844

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Shawna.

[Elyce M]

Took my Shih Tzu age 7 for physical and his blood test showed little high on protein for his kidneys. The Vet wants me to change his diet to a lower protein diet. He has done so well on the protein diet I hate to change him but don’t want to hurt him either. I have read many articles that state not to change them that there is not enough evidence to show that it damages the kidneys unless they have a kidney disease.
Has anyone experienced this situation and what did you do? Elyce B

[Nancy H]

Mike,

Thank you.. I looked at the list. if you could give me your top 5 I would appreciate it.

Shar Pei’s need grain free for allergies. I had my last two on Orjens freeze dry and they had no problems until my male got kidney disease and I lost him a couple of months ago..
🙁 and my female has a sour stomach so I have to feed her Royal Canin Intestinal dog food from my vet. I also have to give her an anti acid 2 times a day and Benadryl for her allergies. I also give her 5 bites of plain yogurt that seems to help with her stomach too.

So any help would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Nancy Horkey

[crazy4cats]

Here is an article written by a vet that was included in my Petcurean newsletter:

CATS | DOGS | HEALTH & NUTRITION | APRIL 8, 2016
The Great Grain Debate: Should pet foods avoid grains?
Dr. Jennifer Adolphe
BY: DR. JENNIFER ADOLPHE
Dog in the woods
Grain-free diets are becoming much more commonplace in the pet food aisle. There are a number of reasons for this growing trend, such as the belief that grains are harmful for pets or that grain-free diets are more appropriate for dogs and cats from an evolutionary perspective.

Also, gluten — a protein found in wheat, barley and rye — has been touted as a substance to be feared in many popular human nutrition diets, and pet and human nutrition trends usually go hand-in-hand. With so many grain and grain-free options available, what do you need to know about the great grain debate?

Grains are an important source of complex carbohydrates, which have three or more sugar molecules joined together so they are more slowly digested than simple sugars that only have one or two molecules. Although carbohydrates are not considered essential nutrients in the diets of dogs and cats, and are often considered “fillers,” they do play a critical role in your pet’s body.

In particular, carbohydrates provide a highly digestible, readily available energy source. Foods rich in complex carbohydrates are also an important source of essential nutrients. The shape, texture and density of kibble depends on the carbohydrate (starch) content of the food. This is important, as mouth feel and the structure of the kibble help to determine palatability.

Recent genetic research suggests that one of the important steps in the domestication of dogs was their adaptation to a diet high in carbohydrates relative to the diet of carnivorous wolves. Carbohydrates are often considered to be detrimental to cats, but research suggests that moderate amounts may actually be beneficial in promoting insulin sensitivity.

Some of the grains commonly found in pet foods include barley, corn, rice, oats and wheat. Whole grains include all parts of the grain, while refined grains have the nutrient-rich germ and bran layers removed.

Whole grains promote digestive health since they are not only an excellent source of complex carbohydrates, but are also rich in fiber. Dietary fiber is a unique type of carbohydrate that cannot be digested by your pet’s digestive enzymes, but nonetheless provides many benefits.

For example, oats and barley contain a special type of fiber called beta-glucan, which has been shown in numerous human studies to fight heart disease and diabetes. Beta-glucan may also be beneficial in pet foods to control blood glucose and prevent obesity.

Grain-free does not mean carbohydrate-free, as complex carbohydrates can be sourced from nongrain ingredients such as peas, lentils, chickpeas, tapioca, potatoes and sweet potatoes. Some pets may have allergies to one or more specific grains, but it might not be necessary to eliminate all grains.

Gluten-free diets are necessary for humans diagnosed with celiac disease or nonceliac gluten sensitivity, but this is not a common problem in pets and most tolerate gluten without any difficulty. The exception is some Irish Setters with inherited gluten sensitivity.

Many grain-free pet foods are higher in protein than conventional diets and, while extra protein is typically not a problem for most healthy pets, it can be problematic in certain medical conditions such as kidney disease. Since all foods contain a balance of carbohydrates, fat and protein, decreasing the amount of carbohydrate in a food will increase the fat and/or protein content.

What are some of the benefits of grain-free carbohydrate sources? Peas are an excellent source of carbohydrates, fiber, vitamins and minerals, and provide most of the essential amino acids required by dogs and cats. Peas also provide an added environmental benefit in that they are used as a tool in sustainable agriculture to add nitrogen back into the soil.

Tapioca does not contain protein, so it is not considered a potential allergen or source of food sensitivity. This is especially important in limited ingredient diets that are designed for food hypersensitive pets.

Potatoes are a rich source of vitamins and minerals, particularly vitamin C and potassium. Sweet potatoes are a major source of vitamin C and beta-carotene, which act as antioxidants, as well as manganese and potassium.

One of the primary benefits of grain-free diets is the increased variety of new and unique pet food recipes available. This allows pet parents to choose a diet with or without grains that works best for their dog or cat.

This article originally appeared on Multibriefs.com

Hope this article helps!

[Shawna]

Hi Bev A,

Glad to hear Little Bit is doing well!!!!!! You mentioned “still dealing with kidney problems” so I just wanted to make sure you know that once the kidneys are chronically damaged they don’t repair themselves.

I’m not aware of anything that brings down creatinine but 1.6 isn’t bad for a dog with chronic kidney disease. Some of the papers I’ve read state that it isn’t until creatinine gets to about 4.0 (and BUN to about 80) that you even start to see symptoms. At times my Audrey’s creatinine was even worse than Little Bits but still had a long, for a dog with KD, and good quality of life.

At 14 she is doing fabulous!!! GREAT JOB!!!

[Shawna]

Christopher E,

I would agree that the amino acids requirements of the canine can be met without meat in the diet however there really shouldn’t be any questions in anyone’s mind that a fresh food diet is worlds healthier than a highly processed diet. We would absolutely laugh at our pediatricians if they told us to only feed our children fortified cereals as their primary diet let alone only diet. I believe it would take a very knowledgeable and dedicated person to create a vegan fresh food diet for canines.

Additionally certain carbohydrates (all grains, legumes and vegetables from the nightshade family) have lectin proteins that, in susceptible people and pets, can cause a wide variety of disease. Potatoes and wheat, as an example, are known to aggravate, or even cause, rheumatoid arthritis. In humans, wheat has been shown to influence a form of kidney disease called IgA nephropathy and recently has been shown in Border Terrier dogs to cause a type of “cramping” syndrome. Prolamins like the gliadin protein in wheat and the zein protein in corn have been shown to cause gut permeability. If the gut is permeated a whole host of diseases can result. In humans the cognitive decline associated with Alzheimer’s disease is being linked to insulin resistance in the brain and high fat ketogenic diets are being looked at and used as treatment.

I’m not suggesting that every dog, or human, will have an issue but it is relatively common and the illnesses that result are often not attributed to the food eaten.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

laconrad,

I spent an hour creating a post last night only to have it disappear. I’m guessing it was all the links include so in this post I’m only going to include a few links but I most certainly can provide them if wanted.

I definitely agree that dogs shouldn’t eat nothing but meat, or even meat and bone exclusively but it is an absolute fact that they have no physiological requirement for carbohydrates. Waltham is a reliable source of info on this —
“Cats and dogs can sythesise their own blood glucose from amino acids.
Carbohydrate, therefore is not an essential macronutrient. However,
if provided in their diet, cats and dogs can utilise carbohydrates and
they are used in pet foods as sources of energy and dietary fibre.
Carbohydrate levels tend to be higher in dry pet food than in wet
pet food.” https://www.waltham.com/dyn/_assets/_pdfs/waltham-booklets/Essentialcatanddognutritionbookletelectronicversion.pdf

In fact, the AAFCO (as of 2008 at least) doesn’t have any requirement for carbohydrates in the canine diet. There’s a minimum for fat and a minimum for protein but no required carbs. Many complete and balanced canned foods have no added carbs at all.

For the record, I do think certain vegetables and fruits are beneficial in the canine diet but protein and fat should not be displaced with any carbs. I personally have no use for most grains but I do utilize foods with millet or quinoa sometimes (to mix things up).

Dogs have been eating kibble for less than 200 years. Evolution doesn’t happen in 200 years. Yes, I would agree that my dogs ancestors probably got some carbs as table scraps however carbs in kibble is not the same as carbs in fresh, albeit possibly cooked, carbs. From my understanding grains weren’t processed in the manner we process them today either. Not to mention GMOs, glyphosate / etc and hybridization to increase the protein content wan’t a thing back then.

Ammonia is not toxic unless the liver is damaged and I’ve never read any research (even in humans) suggesting excess protein caused cirrhosis. Yes in cases where the liver is excessively damaged, or a shunt, limiting protein and feeding certain kinds, like dairy, helps alleviate ammonia from building up but it doesn’t damage the liver. I would agree that 78% of the amino acids in certain meat proteins is all that is used but the bioavailability of commonly used plant proteins aren’t any better and often worse.

Excess fiber in the diet can actually bind up minerals and prevent their absorption. Grains and legumes have anti-nutrients like phytates and enzyme inhibitors as well as lectin proteins which in susceptible persons and pets can lead to illness including some pretty nasty disease (even autoimmune disease). Although possibly not “nasty” I recently read research suggesting gluten as a cause for “Canine epileptoid cramping syndrome” in Border Terriers. In humans these lectin proteins from certain carbohydrates is also considered a factor in IgA nephropathy (a form of kidney disease) as well as type 1 diabetes (the kind dogs get).

Protein absolutely does not “cause” damage to the kidneys and some reports suggest dogs with kidney disease actually have an increased need for protein. They now know that “senior” dogs actually have an increased need as well – “as much as 50% more protein” and minimums for seniors is suggested at 25% — “minimum”. My favorite source of info on protein as a cause / contributing factor to kidney disease is “Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function” http://www.championpetfoods.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Myths_of_High_Protein.pdf

There are two papers published in the Journal of Nutrition suggesting that overweight dogs, even “obese” dogs, lose just as much weight (albeit slightly slower) on a high protein diet, 56% protein, as those fed higher fiber diets without the “muscle wasting” that is often seen in lower protein fed dogs. The body will break down muscle when it’s amino acid requirements aren’t being met through diet.

[Shawna]

laconrad,

Although I do feel small amounts of fresh fruits and vegetables are quite healthy for dogs, carbohydrates aren’t a necessary requirement – even in the modern dog. Yes, when properly processed, they can utilize them but they still aren’t a necessary macronutrient. Waltham is a reliable source of information on this – they state “Cats and dogs can sythesise their own blood glucose from amino acids. Carbohydrate, therefore is not an essential macronutrient. However, if provided in their diet, cats and dogs can utilise carbohydrates and they are used in pet foods as sources of energy and dietary fibre.
Carbohydrate levels tend to be higher in dry pet food than in wet pet food.” https://www.waltham.com/dyn/_assets/_pdfs/waltham-booklets/Essentialcatanddognutritionbookletelectronicversion.pdf

In fact, carbohydrates aren’t even required in complete and balanced foods. There is a minimum protein requirement, a minimum fat requirement but no minimum on carbs. AAFCO guidelines as of 2008 http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=662

They now know that the MINIMUM protein requirement for senior dogs is actually 25%. ” Protein requirements actually increase by about 50% in older dogs, while their energy requirements tend to decrease. When insufficient protein is provided, it can aggravate the age-associated loss of lean body mass and may contribute to earlier mortality. Older dogs should receive at least 25% of their calories from protein, typically provided by diets containing at least 7 g protein/100 Kcal ME.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18656844

It’s also a myth that higher protein amounts have a negative impact on a dog’s kidneys. In fact, dogs WITH kidney disease can safely eat a higher protein diet as long as phosphorus is watched. Here’s my favorite source of info on this “Mythology of Protein Restriction for Dogs with Reduced Renal Function” http://www.championpetfoods.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Myths_of_High_Protein.pdf

The bioavailability of the protein is every bit as important as the overall amount. The more bioavailable the protein the less blood urea nitrogen is created. So the better the quality of the protein the more that can be fed. An ounce of protein from beef, as an example, will be better utilized, leaving less waste, than an ounce of soy protein. Additionally raw protein will be better utilized then it’s cooked counterpart due to amino acid loss lowering bioavailability.

I have never read any literature suggesting protein as a cause of cirrhosis however I would agree that lowering protein would be advised if the liver is already severely damaged. NOT because the protein is further “damaging” the liver however the ammonia not being converted is quite toxic. Even in this article relating to humans they don’t suggest excess dietary protein as a cause https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000302.htm

Excess fiber in the diet has been shown to act as an anti-nutrient. I just this week read a research paper on this but I bookmarked it at work and don’t have access right now.

You’ve mentioned the liver and kidneys several times so I thought I’d add a little more research on the kidneys. “Long-term renal responses to high dietary protein in dogs with 75% nephrectomy. These results do not support the hypothesis that high protein feeding had a significant adverse effect on either renal function of morphology in dogs with 75% nephrectomy.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3702209

Purina Veterinary Diets
“A University of Minnesota study revealed renal aging does not occur in geriatric dogs, at least to the extent that it has been reported in people. When fed a diet of 39% protein and 15% fat (dry matter basis), geriatric dogs maintained relatively stable glomerular filtration rates and had no greater incidence of glomerulosclerosis than those dogs in the protein-restricted (19% dry matter basis) diet group. These and other studies indicate no need for restricted dietary protein, fat, sodium or phosphorus to help minimize renal disease progression in healthy geriatric dogs. Still other studies have shown high dietary protein alone will not cause the development of kidney disease. In addition, research has shown that older dogs may actually require more protein than younger adult dogs, just to maintain normal protein turnover, and to support lean body mass and normal immunocompetence.

Obesity has been associated with arthritis, cardiovascular disease, diabetes mellitus, neoplasia and decreased survival. Therefore, efforts to maintain ideal body weight and body condition are far more important and appropriate than protein or phosphorus reduction for maintaining health in geriatric dogs.” https://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/research/senior-dogs-do-old-kidneys-need-new-diets/

Interestingly, at least two papers published in the Journal of Nutrition have shown higher protein diets to be beneficial for weight loss in dogs.

“High-Protein Low-Carbohydrate Diets Enhance Weight Loss in Dogs” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/8/2087S.full

“Weight Loss in Obese Dogs: Evaluation of a High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet” http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1685S.full

[Shannon D]

I am so glad I found this thread!!! I have a 1.5 yr old American Staffordshire Terrier named Lola. In January I noticed she wasn’t looking/acting normal so I took her to the vet. She always drank a ton of water. At first the vet kinda touched her back and said she may have pulled a muscle and that they could do a panel to check her cell count. Or he said they could do a full panel to get more information. I opted to do the full panel. Come to find out it was a good thing I did. Her results were:

BUN 130 mg
CREA 7.5 mg
PHOS 15.7 mg

They weren’t sure if she had got into toxins or what. I left her at the vet so they could give her fluids and antibiotics. That was on a Monday. They re-tested her on Wednesday.

BUN 90 mg
CREA 5.2 mg
PHOS 8.2 mg

So, she stayed. They re-tested on Friday:

BUN 85 mg
CREA 7 mg
PHOS 10.7 mg

At this point they weren’t sure what was going on. So they did an ultrasound. The vet said her kidneys were abnormal and it was probably something she was born with. They also told me there isn’t anything else they could do at this point, take her home and re-test in a week.
They offered me nothing. Just told me to take her home and make her happy. Put her on the Hills K/D diet and make sure she gets water. I asked about subq fluids and the vet told me they only do that for cats. That it would be too much fluid under the dogs skin.

I researched on my own and found an internal medicine specialist. I was able to get an appointment within a couple days. They re-tested everything and re-did the ultrasound.

BUN 85 mg
CREA 7.0 mg
PHOS 10.7 mg

She is also has alot of protein in her urine and high blood pressure.

He agreed that she was probably born this way and diagnosed her with Stage 4 -Chronic kidney disease (CKD)- most consistent with congenital kidney disease. He said she won’t make it to 5 years old. That we are on borrowed time. He told me that he wasn’t sure how she was up walking around with the numbers she has. She acts completely normal! To look at her you would think there is nothing wrong with her. They advised to keep her on the Hills K/D. They put her on blood pressure medication, along with a probiotic Azodyl and a phosphorus binder, and Epakitin. Said to re-test in a week.

Re-test after adding everything:

BUN 80 mg
CREA 8.6 mg
PHOS 11.4 mg

They then added another phosphorus binder and we know do 500ml of subq fluids a night. She doesn’t drink nearly as much water as she used to. If she starts to drink everyone stops and is really quiet to make sure we don’t bother her. Like watching an animal in the wild. 🙂

Fast forward to her latest test results as of 3/16/16

BUN 72 mg
CREA 8.3 mg
PHOS 8.8 mg

They wanted us to recheck in a month. But my husband and I discussed it and decided to wait because if her numbers are better they will say continue what you are doing or if they are worse or the same, they will say continue what you are doing. I pay about $200 every time they test.

They offer no hope, no suggestions of supplements or anything else we can do. Just take her home and keep her happy.

She has good days and some bad days where she doesn’t want to eat. But most of the time she looks and acts normal. You would never know she has kidney disease. Expect that she is now alittle aggressive toward our other dogs and we can’t have them together anymore. I’m not sure if that is because she doesn’t feel good or just being moody.

I have tried to research foods, supplements etc. It is so overwhelming!!! I don’t want to give up hope for our pretty little Lola.

Thank you for listening.

[Marjorie M]

You are narrowing your search too far. Just research “dog diet for liver disease” or better yet, “low copper diet for dogs”. There are dog foods for dogs with liver issues.

Are you also supplementing periodically with a high quality vitamin B complex as well as E, K and C? Although it is risky to give zinc all of the time, it is a good binder for copper.

You can also provide turkey and chicken but NOT duck. We use hard boiled eggs which are put into a food processor (or blender) and ground up, shell and all because calcium is a good phosphorus binder and eggs are an excellent protein source. I also supplement magnesium for my kidney disease dog to balance the calcium.

[Marjorie M]

There are 2 foods that we purchase. The moist food is ordered directly from the Robert Abady company which makes a low phosphorus/lower (but good) protein foods for both dogs and cats. For my 7 year (recently adopted) Lab with kidney disease we use Beef-based formula for maintenance & stress for adult dogs.
The kibble we use is a Blue Basic Limited Ingredient Senior which is also low phosphorus/low protein. That is not the only food he gets but the rest is a meal regimen which is all fresh food.
Yes, aside from baby carrots and lettuce, he is given 2 different dog treats which are seem to be within the acceptable range.
He is also given supplements daily as well as probiotics and occasionally digestive enzymes along with certain protein in an attempt to keep the BUN levels withing normal range. BTW, his last CBC showed everything in the normal range!

[C4D]

Hi Diane S,

The only food I’m aware of is Dave’s restricted diet can. It’s phosphorus level is .17% as fed and has a G/A minimum/maximum of .02%-.22%. Almost every other commercial food adds phosphorus to meet daily requirements.

Here’s a link to Dave’s:

http://davespetfood.com/product/%EF%BB%BFrestricted-diet-protein-phosphorus-chicken-dinner-dogs-13-oz-can/

When you’re dealing with kidney issues, you should feed a wet diet (as opposed to any kibble) to help keep the dog hydrated properly. Home cooked diets are often the best option. The balanceit website will work with you vet and your dog’s particular numbers to provide homemade recipes. Another helpful resource is dogaware:

http://dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html

Good luck with your pup. I’m not sure what type of kidney disease you’re dealing with, but I wish you the best.

[aimee]

Hi Diane,

If you need a low phosphorus food for your dog’s stage of kidney disease all of the foods sold in stores OTC will be higher than what is desired. AAFCO requires 1400 mg/1000 kcals and kidney diet are formulated with levels of about 1/2 that.

Your options are to use a therapeutic food formulated for kidney disease sold only under vet supervision or to home cook

[Diane S]

I am looking for a quality dog food with low phosphorous for my dog with kidney disease.

[laconrad]

Somehow the notion that dogs are pure carnivores has permeated through internet chat forums, among some non-medically trained people working in the pet industry (groomers, trainers, etc.), and those that take their information seriously. This notion is based by in large on the multiply erroneous notion that dogs are essentially wolves, and since wolves are pure carnivores, then dogs necessarily should be fed as wolves would eat.

I stated multiply erroneous notion because the true fact is that EVEN WOLVES ARE NOT PURE CARNIVORES! While it is true that wolves generally require and eat a high level of protein in comparison to dogs, they also consume a significant amount of vegetable matters instinctively, as doing so is necessary for optimal physiological balance and gastrointestinal health in the species. Wolves consume vegetation from routine grazing on grasses and by tearing open the stomachs of their herbivorous prey and eating the contents.

The other true fact is that dogs are not wolves, but differ from the wolf in DNA structure by about 0.8 %. That may not seem like much, but only a 1.2% difference in DNA separates us from the chimpanzee. Few would suggest that we should model our diet around that of a chimpanzee.

Thousands of generations and selective breeding that made domestic dogs more adaptable to life with humans was responsible for the evolution that today differentiates dogs from their ancient ancestor. Among the most prevalent difference between dogs and wolves that resulted is gastrointestinal physiology and how it impacts overall gastrointestinal and other organ health. In the process of canine domestication, humans essentially their early more wolf-like canine companions what they ate, and over successive generations, the species adapted to a more omnivorous diet.

Dog owners jumping on board with feeding their dogs nothing but meat, essentially a pure protein diet, is fraught with potentially serious health consequences. All one has to do is understand protein metabolism to see the problem.

Before protein can be absorbed into body’s cells and tissues for metabolic and physiological purposes, it must first be broken down into small chains of proteins called peptides, and in some cases broken down to the individual molecular protein building blocks, amino acids. Once absorbed by the gut, amino acids and peptides are then repackaged and utilized by the body.

It all sounds lovely, but protein metabolism does not come without a price, as it generates a toxic waste product called ammonia. In fact, many common meat protein sources are as low as 78% utilized by the body with the rest represented as waste. Luckily, like us, canines have a liver that converts ammonia into a less harmful molecule called urea, which is then excreted by the kidneys in urine.

However, the liver and kidneys over time become overwhelmed with a diet heavily laden with protein, because these organs are constantly burdened with detoxification. Over time, if excessively taxed in this manner through diet, these organs become compromised, leading to degenerative disease, chronic renal failure in the case of the kidneys, and cirrhosis in the case of the liver.

Physiologically, dietary protein for the average adult canine should not exceed 25% of the total daily nutrient intake. In high performance dogs, such as those that participate in in field or agility competition, that requirement may be increased to 27%. Beyond this level of protein the dog suffers deficiencies in other key nutrients, such as soluble and insoluble fiber and anti-oxidants to name a few, while unnecessarily taxing his liver and kidneys with excessive protein metabolic waste.

Canine owners that feed raw are the biggest offenders with regard to overloading their dogs with protein, many feeding nothing but a raw meat diet. For these pet owners that are committed to raw feeding, if they are feeding their dogs nothing but meat, I would urge them to integrate fresh or cooked vegetables to represent at least 50% of total dietary intake. Green beans, carrots, broccoli, celery, and spinach are all healthy vegetable sources for dogs. It is also a good idea to integrate complex carbohydrate sources, such as brown rice and sweet potato, as well as some canine safe fruits like cantaloupe, apples, and pears.

What is most troublesome to me is that some commercial pet food companies are taking advantage of the canine pure carnivore hype and creating diets that are heavily laden with protein, even going further to validate this false notion in their promotional tactics. I was actually inspired to write this post after having seen a TV commercial two nights ago from a large, well known pet food company touting its newest diet as having one of the highest protein percentages in the industry.

I caution all canine owners to not buy into the hype, not listen to non-medically trained people that recommend a dietary regimen without understanding that over time it does damage to the liver and kidneys while denying the canine other essential nutrients; and reject pet food companies touting false claims, who clearly value sales far more than the well-being of their canine consumers. If in doubt, talk to your veterinarian to help you sift through what is best to feed your dog.

Dr. Roger Welton is the President of Maybeck Animal Hospital and CEO/Chief Editor of the veterinary information and blog online community, Web-DVM.

[katyandjewel]

I have not experienced kidney disease with my sibi, but she was concently getting struvite stones and we switched her to bottle water because our tap water is so hard, and that took care of her stones. Has your holistic vet suggestions on this to you. So sorry to hear about your baby.

[anonymously]

Just curious, was he diagnosed with Lyme? I had a dog that wasn’t diagnosed in time so even with the maximum antibiotic treatment she was left with kidney damage.

PS: I would consider consulting an Internal Medicine Specialist regarding an aggressive approach to treatment. Supplements are not medication.

Example: “These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.”

[Pittiemama]

My 5 1/2 year old Am Staff has recently been diagnosed with kidney failure. His BUN has been normal, creatinine was at 2.2 (our lab normals show high normal at 1.6) and urine SG 1.019 (it’s never been higher than that and has been as low as 1.014).

I adopted him from our local shelter a couple of years ago and he came with a myriad of problems, one of which was drinking a ton and with my knowledge of vet med, I had a feeling something was up but wasn’t sure what yet. It didn’t take long to show in the blood work. Naturally I was concerned and super sad about it. He’s a love!

Anyhow I went to see a holistic vet who is really great. We talked about different things and he got acupuncture and she started him on Rehmannia 8 (AKA Bawei Dihuang Wan). So this is my question, has anyone used this for kidney disease?

Thanks!

[Marjorie M]

Although it is a small company, I’d like to suggest The Robert Abady Company which makes a canned food which we’ve found very helpful for our recently (within the last 7 months) adopted dog with kidney disease.
As I recall, I found this food because of the contribution of someone on this site.
Although our most recent CBC results were not entirely based upon the Abady Complete Beef-based formula for Maintenance & Stress, life has been less stressful for me knowing that this food has only a maximum of 0.51% phosphorus and uses “good” protein sources.
Having both his creatinine and BUN levels fall to within normal range has made it easier to stick to a 3 meal a day schedule which includes supplements, egg, sweet potatoes, beans and probiotics.
BTW although he is only about 7, because of the kidney disease he was started on Blue Basics Limited Ingredient Senior before we adopted him. That is the kibble he is still devouring.

[Jenn H]

Mary H I just reread your post. I’m glad I did. It isn’t too different from my GSD’s battle with this disease. We’re more than a yr in and still battling its effects. (Hopefully we are finally winning.)
It’s an awful disease that some vets don’t take seriously, don’t consider, don’t understand and/or blame every future problem on.
If a dog has Lyme and comes down with other issues the body usually overreacts in its immune response and this can make matters worse. At the time of a Lyme flare up their bodies are busy fighting that bacteria that they can often get something else.

Anonymously Lyme can cause a condition in the kidbeys called glomerulonephritis. This destroys the kidney’s ability to cleanse the blood.
What happens is the body drastically increases antibody molecules to fight the Lyme proteins. These molecules get trapped in the filtering mechanism of the kidneys.
If you suspect this have your vet test the protein/creatinine ratio in the urine. This is called an ERD test.

[anonymously]

How about when Lyme gets into the kidneys? It’s an ugly disease. I find the vets routinely check for Lyme now when you do the heartworm test these days. Annual testing is the minimum, some people test their dogs every 6 months if they are at high risk….best to catch it early.

[Shawna]

Epikitin is used primarily as a phosphate binder in chronic kidney disease. From what I’ve read, the main ingredient, chitosan, is the phosphate binder but is also a mild prebiotic (shown to work better than FOS but I haven’t seen studies as compared to acacia fiber).

I have some concerns about epikitin – it has hydrolyzed soy protein – soy does not have a high bioavailability. Additionally, soy is high in glutamic acid and when freed by hydrolyzing, and used chronically, it can become an excitotoxin/neurotoxin in susceptible people/pets. There may not however be enough freed glutamic acid (and aspartic acids) in the product, at the recommended dose, to be problematic but it is still a concern for me. In my opinion, the hydrolyzed soy is added as a flavor enhancer and flavor enhancers, like MSG, have been scientifically shown to cause various disease states in those susceptible.

I’m not sure if phosphorus builds up in acute kd so by feeding a diet already lower in phosphorus AND using a binder you may not supply enough for the body and create symptoms of low phosphorus. If you’ve had a CBC done and it shows high phosphorus than epikitin may be beneficial.

Epikitin is often recommended with Azodyl (which is a probiotic formulated specifically for kd). I chose to use Primal Defense over Azodyl because PD has a wider variety of beneficial bacteria not just the ones for uremia. On the lower protein diet with the inclusion of Primal Defense I don’t know that Azodyl would benefit Faith but it could be something to look in to? I personally wouldn’t replace PD with it but use it in conjunction with.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Shawna.

[Pitlove]

Hi Louis- I second what anonymously said. Also wanted to add that consumer reviews are terrible way to select a food for your dog. It’s far too overwhelming to sift through the good and bad reviews and even at the end of it all you still aren’t sure if the food is good or not.

Looking to what professionals in the field of nutrition have to say about what criteria to use when selecting a dog food and company to use is a much more direct and simple way of choosing a food.

Here is Dr. Susan Wynn DVM (also a nutritionist) guideline for how to choose a food:

1. Does the company employ a veterinary nutritionist? If they simply use consultants as needed, I question their dedication to keeping up with new knowledge in animal nutrition.
2. Has the company a decent track record or are they only a few years old?
3. Do the ads or company representatives make absurd claims about extending lives or preventing cancer and kidney disease, unsubstantiated by clinical trials?
4. Does the company provide clear contact information on the bag or can so that you can easily call them if there is a potential problem?
5. Does the company add to our knowledge of nutrition by conducting ethical research in veterinary nutrition?
6. Is this food appropriate to my pet’s flavor preferences, life stage, lifestyle and environment?
7. Can I provide this food consistently (i.e. am I grossed out by the odor, or is the product consistently available, or is it too much trouble to open cans, etc)?

There are other nutritionists out there with similar, but varied guidelines. I know one of the regulars, Aimee, has a couple other examples so hopefully she’ll post that.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Pitlove.

[Shawna]

Yeah, I think there definitely could be a connection between the yawning and anemia. There are different supplements that can be used depending on what the cause of the anemia is.

The cause is likely due to her kidneys BUT the antacid could be exacerbating it by impeding intrinsic factors action on B12. Standard Process has a human B12 supplement (that is suitable for dogs) that has porcine intrinsic factor right in the product. I would personally start my own on this if experiencing the same things. I would give it away from meals and the antacid being used. There is another form of B12 that I have had excellent results with but it is given intranasally and likely won’t be well tolerated. I’d try the Standard Process or a similar product.

Inappropriate bacteria in the gut can utilize iron being consumed so if that was a potential factor, being on the probiotics will address that with continued use.

Chlorophyll is considered a “blood builder”. It is chemically just like blood except magnesium replaces iron. Many holistic practitioners use it in cases of “blood loss”. Audrey became anemic and HIGH doses of Standard Process Chlorophyll Complex Perles given over a weeks period did the trick for her. The maintenance dose for humans is two perles per day. From memory I was giving Audrey six to eight per day. The first few times I gave it I had to coax her to take it but after that she was almost frantic to get them when I even grabbed the bottle. After she was back on track I started her on a maintenance dose (for financial reasons) of a high quality Chlorella supplement. I tried three different brands before I found one that really worked well for her.

I found this, in my opinion, really cool article on supplements for renal disease that may be helpful. I haven’t had a chance to read the whole thing but here’s the section on “Kidney-associated anemia”.
“Renal Disease in Small Animals: A Review of Conditions and Potential Nutrient and Botanical Interventions
Susan Marie Pollen, DVM, CVA

Kidney-associated anemia is characteristically normocytic, normochromic, and nonregenerative.18 Anemia may cause tachycardia, lassitude, and cold and exercise intolerance.17 Erythropoietin must be given. In addition, nutrients that benefit RBC production, including water-soluble vitamins B12 and folic acid, are especially important when vitamins are lost in isosthenuric urine. Also useful are eggs, raw beef liver, liquid chlorophyll, kelp,63 and supplements containing vitamin C for optimal iron absorption, vitamin E for antioxidant protection of RBCs, vitamin A, and iron and copper for hemoglobin synthesis. Supplementing branched-chain amino acids (valine, leucine, and isoleucine) and glutamine is also useful if nephrogenic anemia is accompanied by amino acid deficiency. 61” http://www.anaturalhealingcenter.com/documents/Thorne/articles/RenalDiseaseSmallAnimal.pdf

Standard Process Chlorophyll Complex is fat soluble but worked like a charm. Not sure why the recommendation for “water soluble” but most chlorella supplements contain water soluble chlorophyll.

Obviously the addition of animal proteins (eggs and liver) would need to be evaluated for the amount of protein and phosphorus they add. The Standard Process Renal Support supplement has many of these suggested nutrients without adding a significant amount of phosphorus.

I truly hope all of your hard work and dedication shows wonderful results with the next lab work!!!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Shawna.