Nitrogen Trapping

Dog Food Advisor Forums Diet and Health Nitrogen Trapping

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  • #63485 Report Abuse

    Kim S
    Member

    I was reading an old forum where Shawna was talking about Nitrogen Trapping. I was hoping to get some more information from her on some of the things she does for her dog that is in chronic kidney failure.

    #63487 Report Abuse

    pugmomsandy
    Moderator

    She doesn’t frequent the forums often. You might try to send her a reply on the Reviews side. That might get her attention. There’s quite a discussion going on right now in the Bil Jac Dry review.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by  pugmomsandy.
    #63492 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Kim S,

    Pugmomsandy sent me an email letting me know you might have some questions for me. Thanks Sandy!!

    Nitrogen trapping has been very very useful in helping to keep Audrey feeling well. When her breath gets a bit funky or she seems depressed I give her Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotics and Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber as the probiotic (both are products marketed for humans). I tried other “fermentable” fibers (like barley, apple pectin etc) but Sprinkle Fiber had the best results.

    The product I absolutely MUST have for her however is Standard Process Canine Renal Support. She’s been on it for over seven years. I can explain why I feel so strongly about this product if you wish — kinda technical.

    Some other things that I rotate in her diet are spirulina, chlorella, food grade activated charcoal, burdock root (another really good fermentable fiber (but she got tired of the strong taste)), milk thistle and more. I mix five or so super foods/supps with an equal amount of enzymes and sprinkle on most of her meals.

    Turmeric would be very beneficial for dogs with kidney disease as well but sadly Audrey doesn’t tolerate it well.

    Giving ultra clean (like RO) water is important too. Evian water is both clean and a good source of a specific kind of calcium called calcium bicarbonate. Mineral waters higher in calcium (and lower in sodium) have shown some benefits for kidney disease.

    I would recommend raw to any that can feed it, gently home cooked if raw is not an option or canned if raw and home cooked are not options.

    Absolutely no chemicals like flea/tick or heartworm meds and no vaccines (including rabies).

    I’m not sure how much info you’re wanting so sorry if I went overboard. 🙂 There’s tons more I can tell you if interested (like keep oil soluble chlorophyll on hand in case of anemia).

    #63495 Report Abuse

    Kim S
    Member

    Shawna thank you so much for replying! I have a dog that I rescued in July and she is about 1-1 1/2, has chronic ehrlichiosis, demodex and is in chronic renal failure due to renal dysphasia. She has survived longer than expected and seems to have a strong will to live. I have been researching quite a bit and have started acupuncture. I am working on trying to get her on a better diet but the vets are not crazy about the raw diet because she has such a poor immune system. They are researching the diet from Just For Dogs Food. I have started her on the Standard Process Renal Support and I am having a plumber install a reverse osmosis water filter system. She is on a pro-biotic also. She takes pressure meds and I put aluminum hydroxide powder in her food along with Nordic Omega 3. Her Potassium was normal this week but her BUN is back up to 57 and her phosphate is 8. I saw that the sprinkle fiber helps with the nitrogen. How much do you give her? Any other suggestions for the phosphate?

    #63501 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    When tested at the time of diagnosis, Audrey’s BUN hovered around 57/58 and got as high as 77 when I was experimenting with her diet. Interestingly her creatinine went down when her BUN was up that high. She eats a high protein (45 to 54% dry matter) diet so not unusual for her BUN to be a bit high to begin with. Her phosphorus has never been high when checked so she’s not eating low phos or taking binders. Dogaware.com would be a good place to get some additional info on binders etc.

    Your puppy is lucky to have found you!!! Some other things you can try is eliminating as many of the chemicals in your home that you can. When I first learned of Audrey’s illness I looked at the ingredient lists of all the items I used in my house and then check the CDC and/or Material Safety Data Sheets for the products. If they gave any warning about the kidneys — they were gone.

    Supporting the liver can help too. I’ve had Audrey on Standard Process Canine Hepatic Support off and on as well as the Renal Support.

    Interesting that they use lamb and spinach in the Just food for dogs kd food. I’ve read (and had discussions on DFA) about lamb being the hardest protein to digest. And Veterinary Nutritionist warns against feeding spinach to dogs with kidney disease (I believe because of the high amounts of oxalates). http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

    My brain is shutting down so I best head off to bed.

    Wishing you and your baby wonderful results and optimal health!!.. Please ask any more questions you might have and update me, if you think about it, on what you decided for her and how she does with it!!!

    #63504 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Small afterthought — Dr. Smart also recommends the avoidance of beets in a kd diet while Dr. Royal includes beets in the Darwins kd diet — soooooo……..????

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by  Shawna.
    #87972 Report Abuse

    Erin N
    Member

    Hi Shawna,

    I have a 10 year old Rhodesian Ridgeback that has been diagnosed with stage II kidney disease. I have ordered the Standard Process Renal supplement and working on implanting some raw into her diet. I am very curious about the Nitrogen trapping. Do you have a suggested guideline for how much to give a dog per weight? Mine is ranging from 90-100 lbs (trying to get some weight back on her, currently 95 lbs, but always been 100-105).

    Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

    Thank you!

    #87973 Report Abuse

    Shawna
    Member

    Hi Erin N,

    I would start by giving the good probiotic for at least for several days and then add the fiber at just maybe 1/16 to 1/8 tsp. Increase the amount over a few weeks. You can possibly use the human dosage given on the product you purchase as a guide but I would err on the side of less is more till you can judge how your pup is doing. Fiber 35 is no longer made but NOW and Garden of Life both have an acacia fiber supplement.

    I wish I could give you exact amounts but I simply haven’t seen any reference. It is now easier to find data overall — they now refer to nitrogen trapping as enteric dialysis but I still have yet to see recommended dosage amounts.

    This website has some info about how it works about halfway down the page. They are pushing low protein (which we know is not necessary) but it is the best source of info I’ve found on how nitrogen trapping actually works. http://todaysveterinarypractice.navc.com/nutritional-management-of-renal-disease-an-evidence-based-approach/

    I’m happy you are starting the Standard Process Canine Renal Support!!!!

    Wishes for your baby to have as much success with these products as my Audrey did!!!!!!

    #88930 Report Abuse

    Bev A
    Member

    I have done the nitrogen trapping that Shawna talks about and it works great. My little dog had a BUN of 77 and as of Friday it is down to 44. Still too high but so much lower than it was. The only change I made on it is instead of probiotics I switched her to a teaspoon of Kefir a day. It really started bring it down in bigger amounts. I researched the benefits of Kefir and how much to give a dog and went from there. I do half a glass of it as well. It is good for so many things. Good luck.

    #93223 Report Abuse

    Angie S
    Member

    Hi Shawna
    I need advise regarding my dog’s kidney issues please

    Is sweet potatoe safe to give? He’s been losing weight due to both kidney n heart disease and I would like to add some carbs in his diet.

    Currently he’s on hills prescription KD canned food.

    May I know how can I buy the standard process supplements? I wrote to them and was told that they are only available via Vet’s office and I can’t buy from them directly

    But I’m really desperate to find them. Any advise for me? Thanks

    Angie

    #102924 Report Abuse

    Monika S
    Member

    Hello Everyone, My 13yrs old Pom kidney’s are failing..its paired with pancreatitis. I envy you all that your doggie actually eat. My Pom wont eat anything but cooked salmon. I am not even sure its good for her since the phosphorous content. Her BUT is 200 which improved slightly with the IV she got at the vet. Her last lab test showed that her red blood cells count is lowered in 4 days. I just so sad that she would not eat the right food for her.

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