[Naturella]

Welcome to DFA! It can be overwhelming, yes, but sometimes the best way to learn is just by trying some of the different ideas people post that appeal to you, see how it works with your dogs, and tweak the thing or choose something else.

I just posted the below info for someone else, lol, but it is altered to fit your questions. I am not a professional or anything, I can just tell you what I think and do:

I think that no single dog food is perfect, and different foods have varying amounts of protein, carbs, and fat, but Victor is a high-quality food and all the flavors within it seem pretty good to me. If you want, you can also rotate both within a brand (basically switch up the Victor flavors), or rotate the Victor brand with other good foods, like Dr. Tim’s, Earthborn Holistic, and Annamaet, among others – this will offer your dogs a variety in the formulas, tastes, vitamins, etc. The kibble sizes in most of these foods are pretty viable for a Chihuahua to handle, but I am not sure about Dr. Tim’s – the kibbles may be a bit big for a 4-lb dog.

If you choose to rotate brands, give it at least 10-14 days, adding a little bit of new food to the old at a time, and watching the stool – if stool is good for 2 days or so, add more new food, take more old food out, and so on. If stool is not good, back down the amount of new food, up the old food. When they get used to rotating, you can switch brands with every big bag (what I do, but with small bags, lol). For now, you can switch to a brand, then exhaust most of the flavors within the brand just so they don’t have too many changes at once, then go to another brand. Also, you can add canned plain pumpkin to aid their digestion in the process, or a supplement called Perfect Form by The Honest Kitchen (THK). I swear up and down by it – anytime my Bruno has an upset tummy, it tightens him back up in a snap! But don’t overuse the Perfect Form – use it only as needed, and the amounts to feed are on the package, as well as on THK’s website. Which leads me to…

… if feeding Perfect Form with kibble, you will need to add some water to it. It will look like a greenish soup of kibble, lol. But, with that said, extra moisture added to dry kibble is always good for the dog. You can add plain lukewarm water, yoghurt/kefir, coconut oil and water, or canned food (and water). Any mix of kibble and canned is fine as long as the dog’s tummy is ok with it and as long as you adjust the amount you add and remove the appropriate amount of kibble so that the caloric intake stays about the same. So introduce the canned slowly, and not while transitioning between brands. You can also add dehydrated/freeze-dried/air-dried foods and water to kibble as toppers too, canned sardines (no salt added, in water only), fresh vegetables and meats, some fruits, and the above suggestions. Make sure you add NO onions or any grape products (grapes, raisins), some mushrooms.

For my 15-lb terrier mix I feed 1/4 cup of dry kibble twice/day, each time with some different topper from the ones mentioned above. I use coconut oil (twice/week), raw egg (once/week), The Honest Kitchen dehydrated foods (4 recipes, each one once/week), Big Dog Natural air-dried food (once/week), yoghurt/kefir (twice/week), 1/2 of a 3.5-oz can of sardines (once/week), 1/2 of a small can of dog food (right now either Weruva or Wellness, twice/week, no kibble at said meal), and a raw meaty bone once/week. All toppers minus the egg, sardines, can of dog food and the RMB I give a teaspoon of. And I add warm water to the mix in all meals. The dehydrated/air-dried foods kind of require it, lol. Bruno loves his “soups” (that’s what kibble and water and toppers look like) and he is slim, but muscular – his body condition is great, his coat is great, and he loves meal time.

So you can implement some, all, or none of the suggestions, or tweak them to fit your dogs’ needs. Good luck, keep us posted, and let us know if you have any more questions. 🙂

[Naturella]

Oleanderz, thank you for the kind words! You are such an eager-to-learn doggie mommy, it is awesome! 🙂

Ok, let me first say that I completely second Dori’s suggestion to NOT start rotating foods before she is well recovered from the surgery and back to normal, stool included. Sometimes stress, or the pain meds, can affect the stool, so if you had just started introducing a new brand of food, you wouldn’t know what’s causing the stool change.

But, after she has fully recovered from her surgery, you can start introducing and transitioning her to a new food of your choice. I think that no single dog food is perfect, and they do have varying amounts of protein, carbs, and fat, but all 4 brands are high-quality foods and will offer her a variety in the formulas, tastes, vitamins, etc. Like Dori said, if she’s gaining weight, feed her less, exercise her more; if she’s losing weight, feed her more, and still exercise her – she will be gaining muscle mass, which is healthy.

Now, for the rotation – it really depends on how her tummy’s taking it. Give it at least 10-14 days, adding a little bit of new food to the old at a time, and watching the stool – if stool is good for 2 days or so, add more new food, take more old food out, and so on. If stool is not good, back down the amount of new food, up the old food. When she gets used to rotating, you can switch brands with every big bag (what I do, but with small bags, lol). For now, you can switch to a brand, then exhaust most of the flavors within the brand just so she doesn’t have too many changes at once, then go to another brand. Also, you can add canned plain pumpkin to aid her digestion in the process, or a supplement called Perfect Form from The Honest Kitchen (THK). I swear up and down by it – anytime my Bruno has an upset tummy, it tightens him back up in a snap! But don’t overuse the Perfect Form – use it only as needed, and the amounts to feed are on the package, as well as on THK’s website. Which leads me to…

… if feeding Perfect Form with kibble, you will need to add some water to it. It will look like a greenish soup of kibble, lol. But, with that said, extra moisture added to dry kibble is always good for the dog. You can add plain lukewarm water, yoghurt/kefir, coconut oil and water, or canned food (and water). Any mix of kibble and canned is fine as long as the dog’s tummy is ok with it. So introduce the canned slowly, and not while transitioning between brands. You can also add dehydrated/freeze-dried/air-dried foods and water to kibble as toppers too, canned sardines (no salt added, in water only), fresh vegetables and meats, some fruits, and the above suggestions. Make sure you add NO onions or any grape products (grapes, raisins), some mushrooms.

Finally, where to find Victor dog food: sportdogfood.com Victor GF and Farmina N&D GF are the best options, but Farmina is on the pricy side. Victor is pretty affordable.

Oh, and for the boxes – hope she gets some flying discs in her BarkBox or whatever other boxes she gets! 🙂

Ok, sorry for the novel… Good luck, keep us posted, and let us know if you have any more questions! 🙂

[Tracey U]

So far, I’ve been impressed with Life’s Abundance. I’m curious if this would make the favorites list. It has quality protein and other ingredients and seems to be a high quality food that is much more cost effective than some of the other top choice dog foods.

[jakes mom]

Ron, I’m a little late to this topic but I suggest you start slowly when you change the food. Some dogs can’t handle an abrupt switch of a low quality food to a better one. Some people suggest going from a 1 or 2 star product to a 3 star and work up to 5 star food. Hope your girl is doing well!

[Mike Sagman]

Holly and Jeffrey,

Wellness dry food products do not appear to contain corn or soy — the 2 most likely dog food ingredients to contain GM materials. Yet due to cross contamination found in the supply chain of many pet (and human) foods, making a guarantee for any food product to be 100% GMO free would be technically misleading.

Unlike the European Union, the U.S. government does not yet address this topic from a regulatory standpoint.

When interviewing Wellpet, I found the representative to be completely transparent about this topic. And it was apparent to me the company was sensible in the way they address questions about the GMO nature of their products.

I found this FAQ question and answer posted publicly on the company’s website:

Why does the new packaging no longer say “GMO-Free”?

The Wellness Quality team has worked very hard to remove GMO ingredients from our Wellness dry dog and cat foods and nothing is changing in our recipes.

As the discussion about GMOs has continued in the pet community, we’ve made a conscious decision not to make a broad non-GMO statement until there are definitive regulatory standards to guide such claims in the pet food community.

So, I remain confident in our inclusion of Wellness dry dog foods on our non-GMO list.

[Kimi_forever]

I’ve heard some not so great things about them which disappointed me as i wanted to try some of their treats as they seemed interesting and i was particularly intrigued by their use of buffalo over beef as i personally feel buffalo is a superior protein source to beef. I would not personally trust meat from india, even if it is human grade. But then again i wont feed weruva to my dog because its made in thailand, but some people see no problem in this because its done at a human food processing plant, so if trusting india is a judgement call on your part i say no but someone else might say different.

One other thing to keep in mind about this company is that i learned evangers does the canning for their canned foods back when i was thinking of using their canned food as a topper for my dog. And like i saw one regular poster here say, “if they dont see the problem with having evangers can their food then i have a problem with that and i dont trust their judgement on any product they make given this”. I mean if these people don’t think doing business with evangers is a problem then where do they draw the line? i personally would return whatever i had from this company asap, but thats just me and i’m very picky and there arent many brands i approve of, so it’s really your call…

EDIT: one other thing about this company that i saw someone who reviewed their products point out which i felt was a good point. is that they focus their marketing a lot on unsubstantiated claims such as the food is good at fighting cancer instead of focusing on what is actually good about the food and why it’s a superior product. i just think they are shady all the way around and use a lot of clever marketing to sell products instead of focusing on quality…

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Kimi_forever.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Kimi_forever.

[Jamie H]

Greetings giant breed owners,

My current Dane is 10.5 years old and looks and acts like he’ll be around for a few more. He’s happy and and alert and active for his age. My buddy eats “Paleo” right along with me. Mostly Protein, (often red Pacific wild salmon–we live in Alaska) mixed with quality rice or root vegetables drizzled in olive oil and baked, carrots and celery (his fav) for snacks. He was boarded for a while when I couldn’t keep him and his caregiver gave him about 1/4 of fish oil in his dry food and and plenty of rawhide to keep him busy. When I got him back he was panting a lot and I assumed a heaet condition. X-ray showed a slightly enlarged heart. I did some research and discovered dry food is lacking in Taurine, L-Carnitine and Acytel L-Carnitine, among other critical amino acids and nutritional components. I started supplementing with the three amino acids, and adding squirts of liquid B-complex. His panting decreased and his eyes became focused and alert and his energy level increased. I abandoned my conventions on the focus of food “brands” and the idea of consistency. How boring. What do animals in the wild eat for dinner? Who cares? Its what ever gets them to the next meal! Variety and fluctuation is normal in the wild, and in fact stimulating for an animal. I mix table scraps with dry food. Dinner always taste different, what a pleasure for an animal whose sense of is also a form of communication! some days he doesnt get the dry food at all. Just after I started the supplemts I decided to feed him raw. I bought grass fed buffalo and he got 1/4 to 1/3 pound, give or take, twice a day. I’d recomend not using any grain fed meat for the reason it is sometimes 10x higher in the inflammatory Omega-6’s which is why we humans should avoid grain fed beef like the plague as well. Grass fed free range livestock has the balance of O-6’s to O-3’s that our paleo brethren grew up on and adapted to. But the most IMPORTANT thing one can do is treat your large breed friends as if they were your own grade school aged children. Get outside with them. Play with them outside like your own child. They DO have vocabulary you know. Just because they don’t show it in reciprocal speech doesnt mean they wouldn’t love to hear you talk to them about your activities. Label things when you are on walks. My buddy loves clover. When I get ready to drive him to a nearby trail i always ask if he wants to go smell “clover” or do you want to drink some water from the “stream”, excitement and anticipation dripping from my words. I don’t always know his choice but I always to to keep things varied. Satiate your large dogs with human interaction and variety. You’ll get more out of your companions than any top brand food can make a difference.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
Your such a great wealth of knowledge, my little & i mean little experience with foods rotation is basically kibble with a lightly cooked topper of different proteins. I never fed canned.
i am sorry i am picking your brain so much, i really don’t know how to go about all this and then add in my fear well you can guess-
I used to feed Pepper a sardine every day until she couldn’t handle them, then I gave her fish oil-i would puncture a pill, she got beta glucan for her immune system coq10 for her heart 3x a week a Vit C, folic acid also-all human supplements just scaled down to her wt.
now with Millie I don’t want to overload her at this point because she is a puppy, i had planned to introduce the sardines a few times a week soon I think she needs the omega 3.
You know even though millie is eating a high quality kibble Orijen, Horizon legacy, I am starting to think she needs to get away from all kibble.
I have noticed,( funny that you mentioned this )Pepper’s stool has no smell since she has been eating THK, yet Millie’s does & I can only attribute it to the kibble.
I give Millie both the Orijen & Legacy mixed and she is ok with that.
I know she is ok with the orijen freeze dried (that’s what she gets for lunch alone)
I guess I made the mistake of giving her the HK with her kibble & chicken at nite.
I should have introduced THK alone with her protein as a topper.
Dori I will get this, i won’t be bothering you for ever, I am a Leo ,and we are perfectionists (that’s why I suffer from migraines) so i have to get this correct-poor Millie to have me for a mom 🙁
I did create a new topic on Puppy’s and supplements-i just haven’t had a puppy in ages & according to Millie’s breeder she needs nothing ( i don’t agree) but don’t want to go overboard.
I realize you don’t feed kibble but i saw a post where tripe is now made into kibble-petkind.com, I wanted your opinion, I have read here a lot of posters feed canned tripe-that it is good for them, I see that more of the large breed posters feed it, I just didn’t know if breeds like schnauzers would benefit. After all Pepper & Millie are not what you would call “working dogs’ Pep is in retirement & Millie is unemployed

[Cait Y]

Ok so I have lurked here for a little over a year, and recently started making my own raw cat food via Lisa A. Pierson, DVM because one of my boys almost died after getting into the Dry food AGAIN and his whole GI system blocked up because he cannot handle the lack of fluids in dry food. He is such a picky eater that I had put off the raw diet dreading that he would turn his nose up at it like he did the other high quality raw/semi cooked food I tried buying him. He LOVED the home made food, he even batted off his BFF to eat his food too!
HoundDogMom, other raw feeders please bear with me I know that the whole shebang I know as of now it is 6 pages long. I am trying to paint the whole picture with the dogs, their special needs and what is causing me confusion with the Raw feeding books I have read. There is so much going on right now in my personal life that I am having a very hard time understanding this and if anyone could help point me in the right direction or even a book or website or from experience I would be so very very grateful.
The biggest reservation I have about feeding Raw to the dogs (who LOVED the scoop of homemade cat food I gave them as a test) are the bones and sadly the limited ingredients I can use for my Special Needs Hound.
I have a 14 yr old Walker hound (Forest) who has like no teeth left and was just diagnosed with cushing’s disease but has some pretty abnormal liver tests because of the damage that was done while he went undiagnosed. His liver is so enlarged it displaces his stomach sideways and upwards which makes EASILY digestible food a must. He cannot have food high in phosphorus, copper or ammonia which means little to no red meat and lots of poultry, eggs and pork. He also has problems with chronic Constipation so I would have to be VERY careful about the amount of bone I add to his diet but I also want enough in there to give him the nutrients he needs. Since he is older he also burns a LOT of calories, He is on Vital Fresh pet Turkey or Chicken and gets 1.5 lbs a day. I don’t know what is causing him to burn so many calories except for old age or maybe his body is trying to repair itself – all he does is lounge in the lawn and do his hound dance for food – people or animal whichever he can mac on at the moment lol
My 3 yr old yellow lab (Nova) is also a high calorie burner but she is super active, we do scent tracking, retrieving, and lots of walking/running on the grass. She will go until she drops which I have never seen before, so now I watch her very closely for signs she is over heated. She eats up to 2 lbs of the above dog food a day but is still losing weight on occasion when her activity jumps up again. She has always had double the amount of Eosinophils in her blood that she should at a “normal” rate. She has been checked for parasites so the best I can come up with is that she might have GI issues going on intermittently – she doesn’t transition food gracefully and really doesn’t tolerate even high quality kibble (after research it’s not such a mystery anymore) which is in part what turned me onto Freshpets Vital.
To top it all off I have a Four month old female lab puppy (Ellie) that is still growing. I have her on 2 lbs of Freshpets vital but I am worried that she is not getting something in her diet as well. She has three white lines running across her nails – each nail on every paw. In my experience when the horses have white lines or even indents it means either they were very very sick or have a mineral/vitamin deficiency of some sort. I know when Ellie came to us she had a severe infection of hook and round worms. Her infection was so severe at 8 weeks old that the vet said she would have died untreated – thank you OCD and taking her to the Vet the same day she was brought home lol. They were resistant to the normal worming meds and for 2 months we battled with getting them under control and gone. If Dogs are like horses that would cause the lines because of how sick she was during this (Great going Lemon law Florida) yet I also worry because I know parasites in small animals or even large can cause a huge system imbalance with nutrients which hinders growth.
OK Limited ingredients – because of Forest I have to stick to Chicken, Turkey, and Eggs as a main protein source due to his liver problems and because Rabbit in completely unviable to me unless I want to raise them myself. I have no local butcher – the closest one is three hours away so Chicken and Turkey liver will have to do for organ meat – sometimes I can get chicken hearts once in a blue moon. For Fats I have to choose VERY easily digestible fats from an animal protein because with Forests Liver problems his biliary system can be overloaded very easily and that would be disastrous. Maybe I can add some duck occasionally to his diet?

Copper Issues:
If ammonia restriction is required, feed less red meats and organs since they produce the most ammonia. You may not want to eliminate them entirely though, as they have important nutrients that help with liver function.
Instead, cut back. Feed more poultry, fish, eggs, and pork. If feeding red meat, even in small quantities, buy the absolute best quality you can afford. Preferably grass fed, antibiotic, and hormone free.

Meats generally low in copper are:
• Beef (muscle meat, not organs)
• Eggs
• Turkey (white meat)
• Chicken (white meat)
• Rabbit
• Fish
Meats generally high in copper are:
• Lamb
• Pork
• Pheasant or Quail
• Duck
• Goose
• Salmon
• Organ Meats
When feeding organs for copper issues, some animal livers contain more copper than others. Beef liver is higher in copper than chicken or pork livers. Regardless, the zinc and b vitamins in liver help to reduce the risk of copper toxicity. Though if your dog has an issue with copper, opt for chicken or pork liver. (http://primalpooch.com/raw-feeding-guidelines-dogs-liver-disease/)

I have read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health of Dogs and Cats. I have some major issues with either of the books, UtCaD is so absolute – if you feed this protein then you need this oil. First of all Canola Oil? Corn Oil? Soybean Oil? Walnut oil? Flax and hemp seed oil? I own horses and I would NEVER give them Corn oil with the GMO crap going around I don’t trust Corn or Canola at all. If I am not comfortable feeding to my strict Herbivores I am definitely not OK feeding it to the other animals. By the way the 2,000 lbs animals have had major GI upset from Canola, Corn, Soybean and Flax seed oil. I’ve given it to them in small amounts – 3 tablespoons a day and I have seen a massive systemic effect that made me take them off of it immediately. It was supposed to give them the right ratio of Omega’s 3 and 6 plus help my older guys move and keep weight on since it was winter. The recommended Ratio of 6 to 3 fats are 10:1 to 5:1 for dogs – I have read that small fish or Krill are the best to supplement dogs with because of the low contamination rate and it should not carry Salmon Sickness. Soybean oil is also something I would never give my dogs or humans or anything because of the way it can mimic hormones and interrupt the function of the Thyroid. Also Kelp is recommended a lot, but there are so many negatives that came out during the feeding kelp to horse’s fad that I will not touch the stuff. If it can affect the horses with the amount of iodine to the point horses became toxic I don’t trust the manufactures. It was not that kelp was being fed in large amounts there was absolutely no regulation on what type they harvested or what it contained. Missing link for dogs is a product I am familiar with and they do make it for dogs with trace minerals but it is flax based. Won’t this completely mess up the balancing? Does anyone here feed this instead of kelp?
The Missing Link Ultimate Skin & Coat:
Active Ingredients (per tbsp)
Flaxseed Dried Kelp
Glucosamine Hydrochloride (Vegetarian) Zinc Monomethionine
Freeze Dried Beef Liver Lecithin
Blackstrap Molasses Chromium Yeast
Rice Bran Selenium Yeast
Primary Dried Yeast Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)
Sunflower Seed Niacin (Vitamin B3)
Dehydrated Alfalfa Garlic Powder
Dried Carrot Yucca Schidigera Extract
Shark Cartilage Powder* Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Freeze Dried Fish Protein Powder Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1)
Freeze Dried Oyster Powder Folic Acid
Barley Grass Leaves Powder Cobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Guaranteed Analysis Amount
Crude Protein (not less than) 18%
Crude Fat (not less than) 28%
Crude Fiber (not more than) 15%
Moisture (not more than) 10%
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 450 mg
**Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1000 mg
**Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat/Dog food nutrient profiles.

Also if everything is so precise that does not leave room for error such as what if the chickens were raised on Florida soil which is heavy in limestone and deficient in other areas – rather than let’s say somewhere in the bread bowl what about if they were fed a corn based feed and another batch was fed free range? If the meat analysis is different it throws everything off and we all know that meat from south Fl is very different than meat from MI or IN – same principle goes with growing vegetables even organic. How much of a God Factor is there for the abundance of some micronutrients and lack of others? UTCAD also has an abundance of some nutrients way over the NRC guidelines – are dogs different in the fact that they can rid themselves of excess things very easily? I know in humans and horses Vit E and Selenium can be deadly because it builds up in fat and the body doesn’t flush it out like the water-soluble vitamins?
Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health has a lot of oat meal, rice, beans?! Half and Half milk, whole milk, whole wheat bread corn? That sounds not so great for dogs and especially not for cats like it says it can be. What about kidney beans? With feeding my dogs I have learned they do OK on rice occasionally when they have an upset GI but if they are on a diet with rice too long they get backed up. Also the beans – the dogs seem to have issues with digesting them like people sometimes do – why are there so many carbohydrates? Why cannot I do sprouted microgreens or carrots or even baked potatoes because I know the dogs tolerate those vegetables very well. Also Brewer’s Yeast? Isn’t yeast as a whole bad? It’s in everything and I know Nova already is prone to yeast infections in her ears and when she gets a UTI – Also can Brewer’s yeast cause or attribute to bloat? Milk – isn’t milk products bad if they are in large amounts such as 2 cups milk plus 2 cups rolled oats and 2 eggs and calcium powder? Everything to me seems so skewed.
Also RMB are out of the question – Forest cannot eat them and Nova and Ellie are gulpers – they came from a large litter and it would be just my luck to end up in emergency surgery with one of them. I have a grinder to which I can grind the bone up with the meat and I know the purpose of the bone was for dental health but if I make Meat Jerky and other goodies can I replicate that without worrying about emergency surgery or broken teeth?
Since I own a grinder already for cat food why cannot I grind bones to supplement their food with? So far in my research the basic recipe and consensus I have come across is as follows:
16% Organ meat
10% – 25% Bone
The rest of the food would be muscle meat and muscle meat
Meat is very high in phos and the bone is high in Cal which means the Cal to Phos ratio should be 1.2 to 1.5:1 although 1:1 to 2.5:1 is ok as well. I just need to make sure the dogs consume more Cal than Phos but the question is do I need to add bone meal or can I grind my own bones to supplement?
Here is what the Article analysis the bone content to be in prey animals:
Bone Content In Raw Foods
When sourcing bones for your dog’s diet, it’s a good idea to know the approximate amount of bone in commonly sourced foods. Here is a quick guide to help you keep your dog’s bone content in the right range; between 10% and 25%.
Chicken Whole chicken (not including the head and feet): 25% bone/Leg quarter: 30%/Split breast: 20%/Thigh: 15%/Drumstick: 30%/Wing: 45%/Neck: 36%/Back: 45%/Turkey/Whole turkey: 21%/Thigh: 21%/Drumstick: 20%/Wing: 37%/Neck: 42%/Back: 41%
Pork Feet: 30%/Tails: 30%/Ribs: 30%
Beef Ribs: 52%
Rabbit Whole rabbit (fur and all): 10% Whole (dressed): 25-30%

From this can I remove the proper amount of bones or add more bones in to balance or would you suggest a bone meal powder? Also I have yet to factor in the percentage of vegetable/fruit/microgreens in the recipe – I am just so lost so if HoundDogMom could help or someone else could chime in I would be so grateful. I am trying very hard to learn as much as I can but between the animals and two sick family members and special needs animals by the time I have a moment to sit down I am out like a light for the night or my brain is so frazzled everything looks like it was written in French. Am I over thinking this? I just don’t want to screw Ellie up – she has already had such a bad start with the worm infection – and Forest needs nutrients to rebuild his liver correctly and I wanted to see if this change in diet would help Nova’s Eosinophils come to a normal level. Also has anyone ever seen white lines on every toenail that grows parallel with the skin? Any help would be so appreciated there is just not a lot of room for error with Forest right now with his liver Alt levels 4 times what they are supposed to be. They cannot stay on the Freshpet much longer because to feed the dogs its 19 dollars a day and that’s not a very good long term solution.
Thanks so much everyone~!~ I Hope everyone had a great New Year and wonderful Holiday
`RedMare

[David G]

Mike Sagman – Thanks for the reply. That article was one of the first things I read here and it was awesome. Always looking to gain more knowledge on the topic. Just need help finding one that fits the criteria and our budget..

crazy4cats – Thanks crazy4cats! I’m going to go down the list and check the websites that were recommended and go with it. The Kirkland puppy food isn’t specific for large breeds so poor little Tanky’s stool is consistently soft/loose. Trying to fix the situation asap!

DogFoodie – While I understand the logic, if that were applied across the board there’s very few companies I’d use in life. Keurig, Coca Cola…I can’t say I’m surprised Costco/Kirkland didn’t reply, and don’t want to rule it out based on that. I would just say it’s icing on the cake for the companies that did respond.

Edit: I see Kirkland Signature Nature’s Domain on the list actually. We may just go with that since we’re familiar and have had a good experience. I’ll double check.

InkedMarie – I’m going to do that right now. We want to get something that’s affordable, but above all else provides the nutrition and quality. Definitely not trying to cut corners when it comes to his health and growth. Thanks again.

-Dave

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by David G.

[Dori]

Hi Barbara. Sorry I haven’t chimed in sooner, it’s been a very busy day. As I’ve mentioned to you before, it has been a very long road to achieving a quality to Katie’s life. My favorite and most trusted commercial raw foods are: Primal Raw Formulas (the formulas are the only one of their foods that are complete and balanced), Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Foods, Answer’s Detailed Raw Foods (a bit difficult to find but any pet store that carries their raw goats milk should be able to order in the food for you), OC Raw, Stella & Chewy’s (I go back and forth with my feelings about the taste of their food for my dogs but as a company they are top notch), Vital Essential Raw, Nature’s Logic Raw. With all of this said I continue to always be on the look out and continue to tweak Katie’s diet. The companies that I mentioned are the ones that I feel very confident and comfortable with feeding to my dogs; but you always have to be on the look out that if any of these foods you feed to your dog don’t agree with them, look for different ingredients in the foods that may be the culprit. Katie cannot have any fowl whatsoever. Sometimes a food may be labeled “bison”. Please make sure that there is no other animal protein in the food. Sometimes some companies will add chicken fat, turkey fat, or some poultry to up their protein requirements for their label. Also some companies may have an over abundance of peas or some other ingredient which may bother your dogs. I have not found that to be the case with any of the above mentioned companies and foods. I do have to be careful which foods from these different companies I feed my dogs because Katie cannot have poultry of any sort, duck, lamb, quail. I stay away from all those. The only kibble that is fed to my dogs on very rare occasions is Nature’s Logic Kibble. They are not strictly a grain free food because their formulas contain millet which is a pseudo grain. For some bizarre reason Katie, who cannot tolerate any grain whatsoever, doesn’t seem to have any reaction to millet. It started out as an error on my part. I thought Nature’s Logic was a grain free food. It wasn’t after some time that I found it contained millet which I didn’t realize it was grain free. I was looking for a kibble that she might be able to eat because my husband who, on the rare occasion has to feed my dogs, is very squeamish and hubby is a bit on the lazy side, and just wants to be able to scoop a food and pour into their bowls. It doesn’t happen often because I don’t like feeding them kibble. Anyway, if I can be of further help please ask away and I will do my best to answer any and all questions that I can.

Just a quick add on to my post is that I do rotate brands, proteins within brands, etc. etc. My very favorite of all commercial raw foods is Primal. Without a doubt I have no qualms about recommending Primal Formulas. Primals Pronto Formulas are also an easy way for you to transition into commercial raw feeding because they are small little bits that you can scoop out frozen and put in bowls and wait till they soften (approx. 15 minutes) and then feed. I have three dogs…..5 lb. Yorkipoo, 6 lb. Maltipoo and a 7.3 lb. 15 year old Maltese. They have been eating these high protein, moderate to high fat, low carb foods for approx. 3 years. None have developed any issues from eating high protein, moderate to high fat foods. Many will scare people into believing that some foods have too much fat to feed dogs. It’s not the quantity of the fat or the protein for that matter, it is the quality of the fats and proteins in the foods. Huge Huge difference. As I’ve said, I have spent years figuring all this out, researching ingredients, companies, supplements in the foods and I’m very confident that I feed my girls high quality foods with high quality ingredients from companies that I trust implicitly and companies that, to my knowledge and investigation, have never had recalls.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by Dori.

[Akari_32]

I would suggest you take up couponing. It’s easy, as long as you can do a little math and spare some time to search for deals. I get a lot of high quality food for $1 a pound and less. It’s a great way to take advantage of sales. Check out the thread i started on that. Everyone shares good coupons they find, and we all share our shopping sprees.

/forums/topic/coupons/

If you don’t have the time for that, Pure Balance is a pretty good food, as is Purina Beyond (a bit more expensive, but it’s higher calorie, so you feed considerably less), Rachael Ray Zero Grain or Simply Nourish (available only at PetSmart). There’s also Nutrisource, Dr Tims and Victors if you can find them, and Wellness isn’t too bad with the coupons they usually have right on their website if you don’t mind buying several small bags.

Momma dog will need to be on a good puppy food, and she will need to eat more than usual. I also urge you to get her spayed after her puppies are weened, and also ensure the pups are placed in homes where they will be spayed and neutered as well. They will live longer, healthier lives when spayed and neutered 🙂

As for the cats, it’s best to get them on canned food, but not all cats will eat it. Go for as high protein and low carb as possible. A pretty good “rule” to go by: if they make good dog food, they make good cat food. Here is another thread of mine, dealing with cat foods:

/forums/topic/cat-food-recommendations/

[crazy4cats]

Recently I read a great interview by Dr. Becker with Dr. Lisa Pierson, feline guru. The topic was feline nutrition. She stresses three important factors for a healthy diet:
1.) moisture
2.) protein from animal sources
3.) no or very low carbs
While I thought I was following these guidelines pretty well, one of my male cats ended up with a urinary tract blockage due to Struvite crystals that caused bladder spasms. Very scarey! After a 2 1/2 day stay at an emergency clinic and a huge bill. He’s doing really well.
I’ve been feeding him prescription food and his crystals and blood in the urine are gone so far. He was also on a muscle relaxer for the bladder spasms and an anti anxiety med. He’s off the muscle relaxer, but might keep him on anti-anxiety long term.

When reading the interview, I learned that Dr. Pierson recommends using DL-Methionine as a separate supplement rather than prescription food. She states that it is better to acidify the pH with this pill and feed a higher quality diet that is healthier for the cat.

Does anyone have any experience or opinions on this medicine? I think I’d like to ask my vet about it, but fear I’ll be met with resistance. Any thoughts, anyone?

Btw, I’d like to note that this condition is much, much more common in male cats than females or dogs of either sex due to their internal plumbing. Don’t want to scare anyone!

[Douglas E]

I have read this entire thread as well as similar ones. Look, other than broad brush strokes, animal nutrition has been much ignored for the majority of pet-human history. Heck, the same can be said for HUMAN nutrition. Only within the past 40 years has our nutrition become the topic of serious scientific inquiry. This has been a natural development in thought from deeper insights into cellular biology, biochemistry and immunology. The science of human nutrition is quite new.

How then can we expect to understand other species’ specific nutritional needs? We hardly understand the human organism yet in that regard. If human nutritional science is in its’ infancy, canine nutrition is only embryonic. That research it further complicated by gross breed differences, historically poor food quality diets, congenital and/our genetic weaknesses from severely poor breeding, medical thought that simply treats symptoms and a new problem- canine geriatrics.

A dog in the wild would typically have a life expectancy less than half of our pets’. Nutritional deficiency plays a major part in that mortality. And no, an all raw and only carnivorous diet is not what a dog would get in the wild. While dogs are highly adapted to having a majority of the diet be animal proteins, they have a much greater variety. Even from only consuming prey animals, they will eat the contents of those animals’ intestines and stomach(s) which would include “probiotics,” yeasts (naturally occurring intestinal fauna,) and various vagetation such as primitive grains. Those grains would be partially digested, yes, so raw gains would likely be less digestible. Canines would also eat the high fat organ meats, hair, skin and bone. It is important to note that the high need of calcium, as well as other bone minerals, for dogs is well noted these days. It is necessary nutritionally for Canines to occaisionally consume vegetable, or even mineral, matter. Not only must they do so to enable gut function, they must do so for biological need. Not all needs are met by prey. This is why in the absence of adequate herbivorous prey, dogs will suplement by what pet owners would consider pica.

All that being said (now that I have presented myself in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral the Very Model of a Modern Major General, ) the answers are not simple. But the guidelines are.

1. Use common sense, canine nutrition is imperfect at best
2. Do not presume to be an expert, or that human remedy necessarily applies
3. Do not rely on diet to cure medical conditions that may really be microbial or parastic infections, disease or biological defecit aside from nutrition
4. Realize that isolating an immunological response, whether from allergic reaction or not, is a difficult and time consuming process
5. Use keen observation when using any new food source or additive, including veterinarian recommended treatments. Don’t simply go with the flow thinking that treatment course is the fix-it for sure (OK, preaching to the choir I think there…)
6. Each dog is as different biologically as we are. If it does improve health in some, it may not in others or it may actually be detrimental
7. A business, or product, that is intentionally or negligently harmful will not survive. Caveat Emptor
8. etc. etc. etc…

Here’s hoping great health to all you and all your furry families

D

[Dog_Obsessed]

I wouldn’t recommend the Purina food or the Milk Bone treats. Both are quite low-quality. Look around the site for some 4-5 star foods, pick one available close to you, and start there. You can add some “extras” such as eggs, sardines, or 4-5 star canned food to make the food more palatable. Make sure you transition to any new food slowly and that unbalanced toppers don’t make up more than 20% of the diet. I’m sure other users will have suggestions on more toppers you could add. Good luck!

Edit: I forgot, a good thing is to feed variety. Change kibble or canned food from time to time, and mix up the toppers. Again, make sure you never transition faster than your dogs can handle, usually about a week is good but some dogs require more time to avoid stomach upset.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dog_Obsessed.

[DogFoodie]

Your dog very likely has a food intolerance, Jordan. All it took was feeding a different food, one that didn’t contain the offending ingredient, for the symptoms of food sensitivity to stop. Please take a look at the ingredients in this Outlaw food again, they really are extremely low quality. This is not at all a healthy food for your dog to be eating every single day of his life.

[RebelRunner]

To all….

In need of some serious help and would like your assistance.

I have a 7month old doberman. He has always had loose stool and is on the lighter weight side, 42 pounds. He is a fun, happy, and loving dog.
At the time the breeder was feeding him Authority. In an effort to improve his nutrition choice and based on some of the information and reviews here I gradually switched him from Authority to Dr. Tim’s Kinesis.
In the last 4 months he really has not had solid stool; it remains mostly loose. I’ve fed him as per the packaging and sometimes less just to increase slowly in case it was too rich for him. Regardless of my efforts, he continuously has soft stool.

I’ve taken him to the vet to get checked out for worms and other things and they stated nothing was wrong with him. Additionally, my vet has little to no knowledge of any of the quality dog foods commonly discussed in this forum.

So, the ultimate question is should I continue to try to feed him Dr. Tims in some other method I am trying or should I stop and move to another food ( I was told you should not change puppy food until the dog is one year old? If so, is there any recommended one or just pick one from the list?

Any good word would be appreciated.
Ellis

[Pluto.the.St.Bernard]

Hi, all this information is so helpful, but just a tad overwhelming for me (so many opinions). I am curious about your opinion on a few things, I have a male st. benard pupp just about 20wks, been feeding him Natures Variety Instinct Dry($$$), and honestly looking to switch to something with less of a price tag, but without loosing quality as I want him in the best shape inside/out. His weight is good, looking/feeling healthy. I noticed the other saint owner was inquiring about Wellness Core Puppy, I am also curious about this brand of food –>> “Orijen product line includes six dry dog foods, five claimed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages and one (Senior) for adult maintenance”. Noticed it wasn’t on your list of approved large/giant breed foods, would you recommend (I’ve read pretty good things)? One last question what toppings would you suggest if not homemade food recipe ?
Hope none of this confuses you, thanks.

[Bryan C]

Hi Folks, we live in Massachusetts and just picked up an order from Top Quality Dog Food This past Saturday @ Kmart Parking lot and tried the mix with bone and my guys won’t eat it. I have 3 logs of the Antibiotic Free ground Turkey with Bone and 4 logs of the Bell and Evans Ground Chicken with Bone.

If anyone in the area is interested that feeds this to their dog/cats at a reduced rate. Paid $37.00 for (4) of the 5 Lb logs of the Bell and Evans ground chicken with bone .. will sell the ( 4 ) logs for $28.00 . I Have 3 logs of the Koch Antibiotic free Turkey with bone .. paid $35.00 will sell the 3 logs for $20.00
email me @ [email protected]

[InkedMarie]

Hi Gloria!
Head over to the review section (click reviews in the red line above) and read the as ince a Diet Reviews. Have you read stuff on the review side? There is a lot of information on how to spot a good dog food. Science Diet wouldn’t be one of them.
I agree about dog food changing over the years. I used Eukanuba when I got my first dog & it was top quality then.

[melissa m]

Hello! I am new to this forum and am seeking some help. 3 years ago we switched our bulldogs to Taste to the Wild to help with skin/allergy issues, and have had nothing but great success. We have raised a number of foster puppies on TOTW, encouraged friends to switch, and bragged on the product. However, at the end of this summer 2 of our dogs developed horrible allergies resulting in itchy raw skin and hives. We have tried everything from switching laundry detergents to cortisone shots and prednisone — and nothing seems to help. Yesterday when I was at my local pet store the owner told me that he had been receiving a lot of complaints about TOTW because they had changed their formula, now using fewer quality ingredients and more “filler” or low-quality items. He said the change occurred in late July, which coincides almost exactly to when my dogs allergies began to escalate.

However, I haven’t been able to find any reference online to anything other than a change in the probiotic they use that would suggest a big different in allergens control.

Before I spend the time and money on switching my dogs off of a food I had loved for years to another I would like to know if you have found any differences in TOTW recently. I was a little surprised not to see it on your list of favorites as I thought it was a top food. Now I’m really concerned. Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi Amy, Im just reading Lew Olsons PhD, Raw & Natural Nutrition for dogs again, its a good book to have lying around, it has easy home cooked & raw recipes in the book she says this about Epilepsy: While the connection between grains & seizures is still being researched a number of studies suggest that feeding carbohydrates can increase the risks of seizure activity, either by making blood sugar level fluctuations more extreme or by causing allergic reactions due to gluten intolerance. The best defense is a fresh-food diet with low to mediun levels of fats, high levels of animal protein & few carbohydrates….

Supplements: Fish Oil, Vitamin E & digestive enzymes are all good supplements for dogs suffering from Epilepsy. Additionally adding a quality B complex vitamin has proven to fight seizures in both humans & animals. DMG made from a derivative of glycine has also shown promising results in slowing down or stopping seizure activity. For dogs the liquid form given by dropper in the gum line appears to work the best..
If you don’t mind making a few cooked meals she has 4 different Low-Fat Low Glycemic Diets for Epilepsy & what Supplements to add..

[Bobby dog]

I am glad you stopped by with an update! It sounds like you are doing everything within your means to help these dogs. Other than a change in diet and seeking medical attention for their teeth, I still recommend probiotics if it is feasible. I listed some suggestions for them in my previous post.

Were the dogs able to transition to Pure Balance without any digestive upsets?

Does she have yeasty skin or just itchy from allergies?

What is the can size of the sardines you are feeding? About how many cans/week are you feeding each dog?

Healthy teeth and gums are very important for all of us; when they are unhealthy it can lead to other diseases. I would certainly address the situation in my dog. The only suggestion I have are for the owners to seek medical care ASAP. Do they have trouble eating kibble? Are the dogs given anything to chew?

I really recommend Steve Brown’s download, “See Spot Live Longer the ABC Way.” It will help you with what you are trying to achieve for these dogs economically. More importantly, it is specific as to the quantities/types of fresh foods to feed and keeping the diet balanced; it would also benefit your dog regardless of the quality of kibble he currently eats!
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

Here’s a DFA thread about adding toppers:
/forums/topic/toppersadded-nutrition/

Too many raw egg whites can interfere with the absorption of biotin; egg whites contain avidin which binds with biotin preventing dogs from absorbing it. Lightly cooking some of the eggs you feed or just the whites can remedy this. Dogs the size of Labs should probably be fed about 4 – 5 eggs per week depending on their body condition and weight. Check out this thread for some suggestions from theBCnut on feeding eggs:
/forums/topic/how-many-eggs-shell-or-no-shell/

Other canned fish you can feed is mackerel or wild pink Alaskan salmon; avoid tuna due to possible contaminates. Be sure to feed only fish packed in water with no salt added.

You can try foot baths & rinses. Below are links to several different baths & rinses that would help with skin and coat issues. If you decide to try the povidone iodine solution foot bath or rinse, since the dogs go outside, rinse with clean water afterwards because it makes the skin sensitive to the sun:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/10/25/dog-foot-bath.aspx
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/03/eating-these-foods-can-make-your-dog-itch-like-crazy.aspx
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/12/16/thirty-seconds-to-relieve-your-pets-itchy-paws.aspx
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_01/features/Pet-Uses-Of-Apple-Cider-Vinegar_20435-1.html?pg=3

Ol’ Roy is definitely not my choice for a healthy food, but it sounds like it’s your uncle’s. Keep encouraging him to rotate and hopefully feed a better food. Other places to look for affordable dog food are whole sale clubs, hardware, large animal feed, and garden supply stores.

If your uncle will not invest in better food, maybe you can try to research some kibbles that are in the same price range that don’t contain as many undesirable ingredients, chemicals, and dyes. One brand that comes to mind is PMI Nutrition; they make three grades of dog food. I often read comments from people on hunting dog forums recommending their Red Flannel line, their lowest grade of food. I don’t recommend this food, but perhaps it (or another similar food) could be considered the lesser of two evils.

Here is PMI’s website with a store locator:
http://www.pminutrition.com/main.html

DFA review:
/dog-food-reviews/red-flannel-dog-food/

[Tiffany K]

What ideas does anyone have to make dry food more appealing and tasty that are budget friendly? I have been targeted as a “dump” site and am currently feeding eight dogs. Feeding them all Wellness is bankrupting me. I wanted them to have quality meals.

I have added hot water to their kibble to make a gravy, and and have also made them oatmeal on many occasions to keep things interesting. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[patvl246]

Sorry for not posting the name of the company.
“Top Quality Dog Food” is the companies name. Thanks all

[Kristin C]

Yes and OMG sorry because I have never heard of it. Just thought you might be looking for a Top Quality raw food. On first glance, it’s not a food I would feed my dogs. As far as I’m concerned, top quality is where you know where it comes from and prepare it yourself.

[patvl246]

Does anyone have information on this company. My main concerns are the quality of the food and the sanitary conditions of their preparation site. Think they are located in Maryland

[Bobby dog]

Travis:
Here’s a great download from Steve Brown that I always recommend “See Spot Live Longer the ABC Way.” It helps you improve any kibble diet affordably by adding fresh foods from the grocery store. There is a menu plan you follow according to the quality of kibble you feed and the size of your dog. I add fresh foods as toppers for several meals rather than feeding in one day. Check it out:
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

[JeffreyT]

Our very picky little dogs love all the freeze dried they’ve tried so far…Stella and Chewys, Primal, Orijen, Big Dog Natural, Healthy Pet Products (both the freeze dried and frozen, it’s the only frozen food they gobble up..but since it has garlic we limit to a few times a week). They like Addiction, which is crumbly like Big Dog Natural, but Big Dog Natural is way more palatable.

They go crazy for Vital Essentials but it needs to be soaked overnight in fridge. We soak it in water along with some pumpkin, pureed veggies, Animal Essentials Green Alternative or Dogzymes Cornucopia fruit/veggie mix for added fiber and nutrition since this food has no fruits or vegetables. In the morning each piece is cut in half or thirds then put back in water where the rest is quickly absorbed. Once reconstituted it becomes chewy-like which gives it a novel texture and won’t turn to mush. We make a few days worth and take the chill off by placing stainless steel bowl with food in a hot pan with some water for a few minutes.

Even though their favorite is freeze dried and the bulk of their diet, they also eat Ziwi Peak, non-gmo small breed kibble and dehydrated. They will only eat Grandma Lucys or Honest kitchen if we add some cooked meat along with other enticing toppers like cheese, egg yolk or crumbled Origen or Stella and Chewy treats. We buy sample packs so it’s easier to augment with these foods.

NRG has quality ingredients but they wouldn’t eat it…reminded me of Sojos which they wouldn’t eat either.

Good to know you pup likes Stewarts b/c we’re trying that next. Dogs for the Earth looks good as well…it’s organic dehydrated patties but I believe meat is cooked first. We were also going to try Smack when it’s available again in US.

[crazy4cats]

The BCnut was hardly being rude. She is giving the exact same advise and information that HDM would give. She has just as much or more knowledge. She has already completed school and has much experience in the field. HDM would tell Kim to feed her dog variety. Do not feed the same food everyday forever. Yes, Fromm is a recommended food, but it is best to rotate with other kibble as well. She would also advise that a high quality canned food is healthier than kibble as it is less processed and has less carbs. Her first recommendation for dental health would be to brush his teeth, secondly give raw meaty bones such as turkey or pork necks, chicken backs or quarters, or chews such as bully sticks or pig ears. Third choice she has a few dental treats she recommends. A few are Zukes ZBones, Newman’s Own Organics Dental Bones and Nature’s Recipe Dental Chews. HDM is awesome, but she doesn’t participate as much in the forum anymore. I suspect she is extremely busy. I believe it is best to start a new topic under the appropriate category and get as much advise and information from as many posters as possible. Kim, I truly hope you can get your dog to eat and maintain his dental health. I feed my dogs kibble with several different types of toppers such as canned food, eggs and sardines. I give them bones, necks and dental chews. I hope HDM pops in and helps you out, but in the meantime maybe you could use some of our advise as well. As I have learned a lot of this from her and the BCnut.

[Bobby dog]

The supplements the Vet suggested should help with her anemia, poor thing.

I have a healthy, younger pup and supplement with MSM daily, kefir for probiotics, garlic 3x/wk, fish oil capsules 3x/wk when I don’t feed sardines, coconut oil 3x/wk, and vit E 1x/wk. For fresh foods I feed some vegies, fruit, lightly cooked fresh meats (he does not have a taste for raw), and a 1 minute poached egg 1-2x/week which helps keep his skin and coat beautiful. I know their are some wonderful commercial supplements out there that would help with healing her immune system, but I don’t have any suggestions for a dog with her health issues. I do recommend looking into digestive enzymes and probiotics for starters. Some probiotics recommended by regular posters are Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms (I believe this might also contain digestive enzymes, not sure), and Mercola complete. Here is a link to Dogaware for a starting point that might help you find info on supplements for her and some other topics as well.
http://dogaware.com/diet/supplements.html

Info on kefir and coco oil:
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/05/foods-rich-in-probiotics-beneficial-for.html

http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html

I will throw this out to you which may or may not interest/help you to improve her kibble diet if that is what you are going to continue to feed her. I follow Steve Brown’s “ABC Diet.” It is an easy menu plan that helps you improve any quality of kibble following a simple menu and according to the dog’s weight with fresh foods (raw or lightly cooked meat) you can buy at the grocery store.
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

[Bobby dog]

Hi Victoria W:
I understand your budget constraints and hopefully I can offer some more suggestions in addition to the ones you have received. You are very kind to give your relative’s dogs the extra attention they need!

It is surprising they would continue to pay for office visits and medication without trying a new diet as well. However, it sounds like she has an infection and needs antibiotics at this time.

Buying a 50 lbs. bag of food is convenient for large dog owners. Throw in a price of about 45 cents/lb. and it’s hard to talk someone out of buying it. In the future, if you are able to convince them to try another food they should expect to pay at least $1/lb. for a food with more meat protein; about $10 – $15 more per bag. If they would agree to this price point you could find some decent kibbles for them in 40-50 lbs bags.

If you decide to add a new food or supplement be sure to add slowly and in small portions building up to the desired amounts.

If your relatives will only shop at Wal-Mart for dog food and are adamant about feeding Ol’ Roy, maybe you could suggest they try adding other brands to their dogs’ diet along with Ol’ Roy. Here‘s a thread with kibble & canned foods available at Wal-Mart with decent ratings:
/forums/search/Wal-Mart/

There is a PDF download from Steve Brown, “See Spot Live Longer the ABC Way.” It will help you improve any quality of kibble with the addition of fresh foods (eggs, tinned fish, fresh meat, vegetables) you can get at the grocery store. There is a menu that walks you through the amounts of each food to add according to the quality of kibble being fed and the size of the dog. I feed anything from a 3 to 5 star kibble and this download helps me to improve my dog’s diet very easily and affordably. I add the fresh food over several meals rather than feeding it in one day.
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

I don’t always have sardines on hand for my dog and when I don’t I supplement his diet with CVS drug store 1000 mg fish oil capsules 3x/week. I also supplement vitamin E once a week regardless if I feed sardines or CVS fish oil. Here’s a link to more info on supplements, it’s also a great site with lots of other info:
http://dogaware.com/diet/supplements.html

As far as mercury or chemical contamination, smaller fish are not usually high in contaminates due to their short life span and the depth of water they live in. Herring, menhaden, and sardines are some smaller species. Here’s a site with some more info on contamination in fish and a link to a wallet card with a list of fish and the degree of contamination they may have:
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/

I think adding some probiotics to her diet would really help with her skin issues; it helped tremendously with healing my cat’s skin. This would also help keep the antibiotics from destroying the friendly bacteria in her digestive system. An affordable way to do this is to feed unflavored kefir; most grocery stores sell kefir and it has a very long shelf life. I add it to my cat and dog’s food daily. Here’s some info:
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/05/foods-rich-in-probiotics-beneficial-for.html

Other probiotics recommended by regular posters are Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms, and Mercola complete.

Coconut oil would be another food that would help with her skin. I add it to my dog’s food 3x/week, more if he has skin issues. I also apply it directly to his skin when it’s irritated. Unfortunately, he loves it so much I have to be sure I have time to supervise him so he doesn’t lick it off before it’s absorbed. Only use unrefined organic. The best price I have found for it was at BJ’s or Costco; Wal-Mart also has a good price just in a smaller jar. Here’s some info on the benefits and dosage:
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html

After a bad experience with my cat and steroids when my dog developed a skin infection I was more than willing to put in the work I needed to help him heal. Bathing with medicated shampoo and applying antibiotic cream regularly was integral in healing his infection. The active ingredients in Malasab shampoo is 2% Miconazole Nitrate and 2% Chlorhexidine Gluconate. There are some generic alternatives that might be more budget friendly. Look for my post on page 3 from June 9, 2014 at 6:40 pm for info on some alternatives and for some ingredients to look for in medicated shampoos.
/forums/topic/maybe-its-time-for-a-diet-change/page/3/

I don’t have any experience with a dog that has hip dysplasia, but I think you are on the right track with a glucosamine supplement. Here are two threads that might be helpful:
/forums/topic/joint-health/
/forums/topic/budget-friendly-supplements-for-14-year-old-dachshund/

And here’s a coupon thread that might help with your pet food budget. The first page is an intro and the last page has the most current info posted.
Page 1:
/forums/topic/coupons/
Current page:
/forums/topic/coupons/page/15/

[Naturella]

Victoria,

I feel for you! A few of us here have had our fair share of stubborn dog owners who just refuse to get the facts and do what is truly good for their companion…

That Ol’ Roy is crap, you obviously know… I guess, if you can, try to get a small bag of Walmart’s Pure Balance/Pure Balance Grain Free (two of the more decent foods sold at Walmart), and maybe entice the family to try and add some to Ol’ Roy, see how their dogs like it. When I added some of the food I feed my dog to the food of the dog of the family for whom I babysit, she did not want to touch her Kibbles ‘N’ Bits anymore at all! Lol, she knew the good stuff! Maybe this will help them – plus, Pure Balance is ALSO sold at Walmart, where Ol’ Roy is.

Another thing you could do, is just add some good canned food as a topper to their meals, or a raw/lightly cooked egg here and there, some canned sardines, coconut oil if you have/can afford it, and some plain yoghurt and canned pumpkin (plain, not the pie-filling stuff). That’s what I do even with better-quality kibble and I believe it helps. If you can throw some raw/lightly cooked meat in there, or raw meaty bones here and there, it should help improve their diet a TAD, but really do try to get them off of Ol’ Roy…

Good luck, and know that many of us have been there too!

[Julian R]

Hi Kristin,
I adopted my chow/akita mix almost two years ago and I started feeding him raw meats more or less after a month of his arrival. I started slow, mixing ground beef with canned wet food. I eliminated kibble right away or should I say he rejected it once he was presented with an alternative diet. After about a month of a raw/canned mix, I just fed him raw meats. Once I have made the full decision of a raw diet I searched for commercially available raw meats (http://www.darwinspet.com) but it was not a cheap option. I turned to my local meat markets and bought chicken (breasts, necks, hearts, thighs), turkey legs (cut in pieces), pork neck bones, beef kidney and heart, and ground beef. I followed the advise from (http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjhomemade2.html) to understand the proportions needed (lean meat:bone:fat:organs).
Now let me provide potential answers for some of your questions.
How much raw food per day should I feed him? Raw diet is more nutritious than kibble and canned food so there is not need to feed them as much. Based on your dogs desired weight I would estimate 3-3.5 oz daily.
Should I start out getting packaged raw food? It tends to be more expensive and if there are good meat markets in your area with a good selection, you can buy what you need at a lower price.
Should I just give him the bones or grind them up? Most dogs can handle bone (make sure they are uncooked) but one has to be careful since choking can still happen. Avoid chicken necks since they can cause choking in small dogs. Pork necks are a good option since they are meaty and dogs can easily break them (at least medium-large dogs). Now since you have a small dog you can give him small pork neck bones but not too small that he will try to swallow it whole. Supervision is key here.
What meats can he eat? chicken, beef, pork, venison, rabbit, turkey, duck, lamb, etc
What should his daily, weekly, etc… diet consist of? The article in dogaware.com provides a very straightforward guide to establish your weekly dog diet, in summary it states that it should be 30-50 % meaty bones, 45-65 % lean meat (including eggs and dairy products) and 5% or less of organ meat.
How slowly should I introduce him to raw food? Start slow mixing 3/4 of of his usual food with 1/4 of raw. Increase slowly over a 2-4 week period.
What meats are good to introduce/start out with? Chicken is usually a good start and lean ground beef is also good. Do not feed him chicken with the skin since it will be too rich for him.
What things should I get to start out with(what kind of meat grinder, what kind of storage containers, etc…)? I don’t use a meat grinder and most likely you can ask your local butcher to do the grinding you need. I ended up buying a freezer for his food and I thaw enough for 2-3 days inside the refrigerator. I keep thawed food in a closed large glass container inside the refrigerator.
How should I handle the meat? I have a cutting board, knife and other utensils to handle his food which I do not use for anything else. I wash everything with plenty of dish soap and hot water. I obviously I wash my hands thoroughly after handling raw meats. How much will this cost per month? For my 62 pound, I spend in average $70 a month. What veggies and fruits should I include in his diet daily, weekly, etc…??? About 6 months ago, I found out about a dog raw food vendor that distributes a great variety of raw food in NJ, CT, MA, NH, and VT. (http://www.topqualitydogfood.com/). They don’t mail so one has to picked up at specific services areas where they stop and it is once a month only. Anyway, they have meats mix with veggies and fruits which I give to my dog. You can see more information about giving vegetables and fruits to your dog. Keep in mind that vegetables should be preferably cooked and give as a puree mixed with meat for better absorption. How much low-fat cottage cheese, veggies, etc… should I feed him daily, weekly, etc…??? Cheese is as an occasional part of his diet but I dont feed him daily perhaps once a week but not too much.
What kind of fish can he eat? most fish except salmon or trout fromPacific Northwest. I feed my dog Chilean Salmon.
Should I add fish oil or probiotics or whatever else to his daily, weekly, etc… diet?? It is recommended to complement his diet with fish oil. I am not sure about probiotics, though.

I advise you to take a look at the books recommended if you can or at least check the websites. Also, try to connect with owners of small dogs that feed them raw. I strongly believe it is the best diet for dogs but it requires some learning from the owner.

[Nancy M]

Hello again Carol……thanks again for such information, however, right now, I’m so discouraged to say the least. I just came back from the vets office and having another 350cc drained out. Through the night, my dog has stopped laying flat out on either side; will only lay upright, with both front legs spread apart some. He looks and acted very uncomfortable, with labored breathing, which really hasn’t improved much since draining the 250cc on Saturday. When he only ate about 1/3 of his food this morning, and acts pretty lethargic, it was time to take him back in. X-ray doesn’t show any improvement and my vet is not encouraging me with hope. Needless to say, I’m very sad;actually devastated. And I don’t know what to do. I’m fighting the temptation to give up and make sure my dogs quality of life and comfort doesn’t suffer more than it already has. This latest situation has risen so suddenly and seems to be going downhill just as quickly. However, if I knew or could find someone who is knowledgeable and capable of doing the port, I would at least try it. I might just get on the phone with the vet hospital in Oklahoma (they never got back to me) and see what I can find out or do. I’m afraid that losing him could be as close as over the next few days, if I don’t do something. I’m just lost in this…….awful feeling, as I’m sure you know, many times over probably.

Thanks for writing. I sure do appreciate it! You are very kind!

Nancy

[Paul B]

The problem with beef is not enough bone and then possible diarrhea. I only do this one time per week. You can find raw meat groups that will sell whole ground chicken but the fat is to high so I use turkey necks. The raw meat groups are popping up everywhere. Check out topqualitydogfood this is the type of place that come monthly and people get great deals on raw meat.
Take care
Paul

[Daria S]

Hello all, Hello HOUND DOG MUM 🙂

Speaking about Ca:P ratios – I’ve just received response from First Mate pet foods according to their actual Ca:P ratios. On their pages and on the internet the figures are really really high (1,9:1 for Pacific Ocean Endurance/Puppy which made it to the HDM list). Here are the figures I received by them:

Pacific Ocean Fish Original 1.44:1
Pacific Ocean Fish Endurance/Puppy 1.50:1
Pacific Ocean Fish Large Breed 1.45:1
Pacific Ocean Fish Weight Control/Senior 1.40:1
Chicken with Blueberries 1.85:1
Australian Lamb 1.78:1

The ratios are lower than shown on their pages BUT still high for any large breed puppy because of too little Phosphorus. It’s a shame, I really liked the company and the food so now I’m thinking about Orijen Puppy Large (new formula since January 2013).

Orijen CS couldn’t give me answer about actual Calcium level and kept saying the same info as on the pages – Ca is between 1,2 – 1,5. The best i got from him is “The minimum calcium and phosphorus contents that are listed on our guaranteed analysis are reflective of the typical content.” Kcal is 3800/kg. So while 1,3 would be acceptable, 1,4 is too much. Now I really don’t know. I have a 3,5mths GR puppy and as everyone here I want the best for him. I like high protein in Orijen and quality ingredients.
Also I heard that Orijen is being too high in iron – I still need to analyse this topic.

Any thoughts here?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Daria S.

[Deborah M]

Sheryl,
You just have to do your own homework and really research the food you’re using. I had a lot of trial and error, even with the the best quality foods. But, just because your breeder recommended a food, doesn’t mean it’s the best. Even with champion dogs. My breeder is excellent. Produces top notch puppies (many champions) and takes superb care of them prior to them leaving her home. I would NEVER go to another breeder. However, I also would not feed my dogs what she does – I won’t mention the food, but it’s an inferior food. After all of my mistakes, and pulling my hair out, I ended up switching to a freeze dried raw that is: 1) excellent quality, 2) sits very well with my dogs, and 3) they LIKE!!! I won’t go back to kibble. I would recommend that you just start out with the 5 star foods on the Editors list, and go from there. Btw, in terms of transparency, I’ve been able to take a virtual tour of my manufacturer’ facilities (very very clean), and making the food, showing the ingredients, mixing it up into various batches, and packing it. I’ve been able to talk to people at the plant personally because I had a lot of questions about switching to raw and they are always extremely responsive and helpful. Of course not suggesting you go raw, but just to expect no less from the manufacturer for what ever you choose.
Good luck.
Deborah.

[DogFoodie]

Try topping it with some quality canned food, tripe or goat’s milk.

All of which, the majority of dogs find irresistible.

[Nancy C]

A couple of thoughts: My 10 yr old Golden R will eat about anything but not in a gobbling it up sort of way. HOWEVER, I have just lately been adding TO the bowl some sample packs of The Honest Kitchen flavors (which they sent for free in a box) and I have mixed that tog with Fromm’s Four Star Salmon, Dr Tim’s Kinesis GF, and Acana Grasslands, and she has LICKED every food molecule out of THE BOWL every time! Each pack has about 100 calories, so I reduced the calories in the dry kibble to make room for the HK food. THK food is wet such that it will coat all the kibble in a nice way if you stir it. also, I have added Coconut Oil to the food, putting little dollops on top of the food. Both my dogs LOVE coconut oil and it is SO GOOD for them. (The substitute mailman just commented yesterday how beautiful the Golden’s coat is — that it is noticeably thicker and prettier. I told him I’ve been giving her coconut oil. He said it has made a difference.) Dr Becker recommends 1 tsp per day for every 10 to 20 pounds of weight. It’s like CANDY to them and I think makes contents in the bowl more interesting and tasty. I sometimes snip large fish oil capsules and drop the drops on the kibble. Also just bought some very high quality Norwegian Salmon Oil. The woman at the pet boutique said several pumps of this on top of kibble really upgrades the flavor.

[Mark G]

I am new to DogFoodAdvisor and am surprised to see Evanger’s canned food rated a 5 on your list not listed on the recall list. We used Evanger’s for a couple of years because of the variety of all meat foods they offered. One of our pets Anna, a female blue heeler would throw up her food on a regular basis. This is a dog that I rescued out in the wilds of the Texas Panhandle who was emaciated and near death. She has always eaten anything fed to he with exuberance. I began to search on line and discovered articles about the quality of Evanger’s, recalls and problems. Some of these from former employees. I stopped feeding her the food and the throwing up stopped. We now use Halo rated a 4 by your site and never recalled.

[Bobby dog]

Tindaisy:
They sound like beautiful kitties and I really love the names too! I love it when they all get along. All of my dogs got along with cats and it’s always good for a laugh when they play with each other.

FYI – I feed 4Health products to my dog and cats and really like them; not to mention they are very budget friendly! 4Health is reviewed well on DFA. I would also like to let you know about who manufactures them so you can make an informed decision about the products if you choose to feed them. If you are aware of who manufactures 4Health products and their history, you can stop reading this post now. lol

Some of the grain free kibble dog foods and GF cat food are made by Ainsworth – GF turkey, GF beef dog foods, and the GF cat food. The other kibble recipes are manufactured by Diamond – GF whitefish, GF duck, GF pork, all grain inclusive dog foods, and the grain inclusive cat food. Diamond also manufactures Taste of the Wild kibbles. Many of their products are sold at TSC and other places as well.

Diamond has a history of repeated recalls and I believe they just came to an agreement in settling one case against them. Any food can have recalls, kibble, canned, or raw, and you can only hope they take care of the issue responsibly, Diamond in my opinion did not. You can read more about Diamond recalls on the review side under the recall tab and various other websites. I personally have not knowingly bought a Diamond product since around 2007. I was not aware of pet food companies outsourcing the manufacturing of their foods until I came to DFA. So I have fed products manufactured by them, but I now keep track of who co-packs the food I feed.

I think the east coast factory is the one that was involved in the recalls. If I lived on the west coast I would consider and probably would feed Diamond products. They have several factories on the west coast and I don’t think they have been involved in any recalls.

I won’t completely rule them out for the future. They really look like good recipes to me and have a great price point, but I live in a region that more than likely would be supplied by the east coast factory. Hopefully they have addressed their issues and will be producing quality pet food in the years to come. So for now my choice is not to feed any products manufactured by Diamond.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Tindaisy:
I love some classic Tom and Jerry! Those must be pretty persuasive cats to turn you into a cat lover and wishing for more strays. I’ll say it again, lucky kitties. You and C4c have something in common, the love of cats by a few strays stopping by your homes.

If you have a Tractor Supply Store local their brand 4Health is a very budget friendly food with decent ingredients; 46 cents/5.5 oz or 99 cents/13.2 oz, co-packed by Simmons. Only one of my cats will eat 4Health, wish they all would, what are you going to do. I have ordered from Chewy.com a few times, excellent prices and service. Many posters on DFA recommend them as well. Here are some other sites to check out; sign up for e-mail/newsletters from these sites so you can receive info on sales and free shipping offers:
http://www.amazon.com/pet-supplies-dog-cat-food-bed-toy/b?ie=UTF8&node=2619533011
http://www.petco.com/
http://www.petflow.com/
http://www.petfooddirect.com/
http://www.petsmart.com/
http://www.wag.com/

I have my Vet to thank for the journey to learn more about pet nutrition. About a year ago she sent out her monthly newsletter discussing common health issues that could have been avoided by proper nutrition and feeding species appropriate foods. She invited anyone who was interested to stop by for a list of pet food she compiled for cats and dogs. I thought to myself what I was feeding had to be fine since they were name brands that are advertised often, but I’ll stop by and see what she has to say. After I read the information she compiled I was off to the races to research more about pet nutrition. I talked further about nutrition with my Vet, read some books, magazine articles, and visited many sites. The criteria I follow regarding pet nutrition constantly changes and grows the more I learn. I like catinfo.org and DFA because of the simplicity they use to present information to their readers.

Catinfo.org is probably the most popular cat site for the regulars on this thread, but there are several others that are very helpful with current information on feline nutrition and care as well. Here’s another site: http://www.littlebigcat.com/
Both of these sites are run by Vets and I am sure others will chime in with their favorite websites as well. Here’s some links to check out regarding cat nutrition:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-dry-food-is-bad-for-cats-and-dogs/

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

On this thread we all share are trials and tribulations about getting our cats to transition to quality foods and other stuff too. Most of mine will eat a premium brand canned food a few times a week and I have a couple that will eat some commercial raw once a week, but most of mine are addicted to kitty crack. Most of my cats are 15+ and I am not going to push a drastic diet change on them at their age. They are now eating mostly canned food with a little GF kibble on the side. I can always hope for more, but I am happy to have transitioned them this far with no issues.

Fish is a concern for all of us farmed or wild caught. Although the quality of fish that is included in pet food might be questionable the same could be said about the quality of meat. So I focus on minimizing exposure to fish and try my best to get quality food in them when they will eat it. My cats’ revolt if they do not get fish a few times a week so I mix in sardines packed in water with their canned food. Sardines typically do not have as much mercury or contaminates that other fish may have. If it were up to me I would not feed fish at all.
From Dr. Pierson:
“I do not feed fish to cats for the following reasons:
• high allergy potential (manifested as skin allergies or inflammatory bowel disease, and possibly asthma)
• toxin/mercury contamination
• PBDEs (fire retardant chemicals) – PBDEs are potent thyroid disruptors
• often high in phosphorus and magnesium
• highly addictive – the cat will not eat anything else”

Thanks for sharing tips on transitioning food. The crazy thing is I thought I would have the most problem with changing their kibble. They always ate canned food with no problem so I thought that would be the easiest. The opposite occurred with mine. I rotate between several kibbles with no transition. It was the Friskies they were addicted to. lol I can’t tell you the money I have spent on quality food only to have them sniff and walk away. I have one cat that pretty much will eat anything and if all else fails Bobby dog is more than willing to clean the cats’ plates. All is good though, they are happy and healthy fur babies.

Akari started this thread and another one about coupons and sales we all share with each other if you are interested. Here’s a link to the coupon thread:
/forums/topic/coupons/page/11/

Stop back and let us know how your guys are doing!

[Barbara O]

You are so welcome. Please realize that I’m not that smart…it’s called being older and learning from experience and reading…asking questions like you do…and using common horse sense when ruminating over the answers that people give you. I give a great deal of credence to people who have been around the block a few times and who spend time reading between the lines…Remember…anyone can put stuff in print on the internet…I love books that are the printed word. When Toby developed pancreatitis, between my vet and a book I have on hand, we pulled him through. I wouldn’t be without the book…It at least tells me what to do at home while I’m waiting to get an animal to the vet’s office…and some good tips after I go…I learned that we have to keep them hydrated but at the same time keep the pancreas still and not taxing itself….It was Christmas Day when Toby got sick…so we’ve come a long way and we’ve had no more problems…and it was my fault that he got sick. I had fixed a standing rib roast for Christmas and left the pan on top of the cabinet…the grease cooled and rose to the top…I had put water in the pan…I had a sick rescue Dane and hadn’t washed the pan…Toby got on top of the sink….genets can climb anywhere…and swished his tail in the pan, covering his long, long tail in the grease…these animals are fastidious..so he immediately went to cleaning it… When i finally set down after getting Mandy the dog stabilized and medicated…she had a UTI…he jumped into my lap and i felt the wet, greasy feeling tail….he had consumed all that grease…too, too much for a little 3 to 4 lb animal….The next morning he was lethargic…we saw the vet that day and he was started on meds…then we went back and they had to put 50 ccs of fluid under his skin…it took three of us to hold him down in a tube that was meant to do this…it was then i learned how to give him a teaspoon of water every hour on the hour to keep him hydrated, interspersed with a teaspoon of blended food….several times a day….My husband and I had tried to keep him hydrated with 10 ccs subcu but couldn’t hold him down….strong little cuss…first animal I haven’t been able to hold down…As I said, he can be a little Tasmanian devil….I hydrated the Dane with no problem….

Every day I learn something new…that’s why I love sites like this…It helps me tweak what I do for my own animals and it also helps me know what I’m doing right, that has worked for years and years…when something works, your animal is healthy and happy…don’t change what you’re doing…Our animals are individuals…I can’t eat wheat…developed a problem with it…causes horrible arthritis in me…I also know this hasn’t always been the case…same way with chicken…developed something called polymyalgia…docs sent me to rheumatoid clinic at our teaching hospital here…not rheumatoid arthritis so they gave it this fancy name…found out it was being caused by chicken…I was eating it almost every day…I was the one who found the connection…not the docs, just me…case in point….you know your animals better than anyone else…I told one person I won’t feed Purina…had a bad experience with it…not the quality I want for my animals…but that doesn’t mean that others have the same results…From my animal science degree, the various vet courses I’ve taken, and from working with various animals and exotic vets across the US, I have learned a great deal….All I can do is try to put together what I’ve learned to care for what the animals I’ve been blessed to have…I’m seeing too many animals with allergies…something is going on…and I’m seeing these allergies in animals on kibble, raw diets….etc…It’s so hard for me to believe this is a permanent situation….I would start questioning the surrounding environment…not something an individual may be doing but what the animal is coming in contact with that’s not food related…that’s how my allergies started…I cleaned up my environment, cleaned up my diet, starting building my immune system, and now my allergies are almost non-existent. Hopefully, this will happen to the animals out there that are suffering…

[Bobby dog]

Hi Barbara O:
A few of us on this thread have been weening our cats off of kitty crack…this may never happen, but we do our best. I also try not to feed fish to my cats, tuna especially. Moisture is critical for a cat’s UT system. Currently I am now down to feeding each cat approximately two tablespoons of dry GF food a day. Hopefully, I can ween them off of dry food as well. Again, that may never happen.

I would love to feed my cat’s quality food consistently however they are finicky and after many years of cheap canned cat food, they like what they like. Sometimes they get half Wellness (or other quality canned food) and half Purina, sometimes straight Wellness, and sometimes just Purina when they turn everything else down. I would rather feed Purina then have health issues due to a cat not eating food.

I do think Halo’s recipes look great. I have fed it in the past to my dog, but stopped when I contacted them and asked who co-packs their food and they would not disclose that information to me. I believe one of the regulars on this thread feeds it to their cats with great results.

Regardless if a cat is a stray or not dry food is not an ideal diet for a cat and I do not consider canned cat food, meat, or raw food a treat for them; I consider them healthy foods for a cat regardless of the quality. Please check out catinfo.org for information on what is important in a cat’s diet. There is an abundance of information on this site about nutrition and other subjects concerning cat care that I am sure you will find interesting! 🙂

[DogFoodie]

Hi Tabitha,

I tried it for a couple of canned foods and I used a number of 3% for the ash and those numbers seemed right. If I left it at 8%, the numbers seemed very off and I ended up with a negative percent for carbs.

I had been wanting to figure out these numbers because my food intolerance dog has turned into my picky dog. There are some raw foods that he refuses to touch, but he loves canned food. I thought I’d start using a larger portion of canned, but still use it as a topper for kibble to keep things affordable.

Isn’t a canned food with protein at 36.6%, fat at 58.8% and fiber at 4.6% on a calorie basis way too high in fat? I’d never feed a kibble with that much fat.

I put in several different quality canned products that I have here and the numbers are similar.

Am I overlooking something?

[Deborah M]

I would try the Venison, Chicken, or the Green Tripe. The lamb and the beef are pretty high in fat. The green tripe is disgusting … it smells like an elephants stall. But … my dogs LOVE LOVE LOVE it. And I’ve read so many beneficial things with regard to the green tripe. And it’s very easy to prepare. My dogs have always been really finicky eaters since they were puppies. I’ve tried dozens of top quality brands, this is the ONLY food that actually causes them to beg at meal times. I am very happy with the quality of the ingredients, the ease in preparation, and the fact that my girls absolutely love it. It is on the expensive side, so I feel bad for those with large breed dogs who want to go this route. My two are only 11 lbs each, so its a little more affordable for me. I buy it in bulk at either Amazon.com, or Chewys. Both offer free shipping and no tax options. The local pet store is more expensive, plus I have to pay tax. Hope this helps.

[USA]

Hi MastiffMomma

I know you are worried about calories but I feel that calories can always be adjusted by the AMOUNT of food you feed. For me it’s all about the carbs for a dog with Diabetes. Diabetes can be a devastating disease in people and dogs so my top priority would be to cut carbohydrates to below 15%. Commercial dog food companies have taken a different approach. Because starch is cheaper than protein they will try to use low glycemic starches and fibers to slow down the absorption of the carbs and avoid a spike in blood sugar (glucose). That would be fine if dogs needed a lot of carbs to survive. Since they don’t it makes much more sense to cut the ingredient that ALL diabetics have a problem with, SUGAR in any shape or form!

There are only 3 basic nutrient groups, Protein, Fat and Carbohydrate so a food that is low in carbs will be high in protein and fat. This is okay for MOST dogs. Some dogs will have a problem with high fats and some dogs will have a problem with high protein.

I would always unless there is a medical issue with fat or protein try a ultra-low carbohydrate food first. Without a doubt carbohydrates are the enemy to a dog with diabetes and cutting carbs can increase both the quality of life and the length of life for a diabetic dog.

Dry food kibbles need starch to hold them together so the lowest you can go in carbs is about 15% and most kibbles are MUCH higher. I estimate that the dry food he is eating now is 50% carbs. Dry foods can also tax the kidneys because they are so concentrated and low in moisture. Kidneys are one of the first things to be affected by diabetes so dry foods are not my first choice. I have listed a couple of dry foods because whatever food you choose to feed has to fit your lifestyle as well as your mom’s.

/dog-food-reviews/evo-dog-food-dry/
http://www.midamericapetfood.com/victordogfood/pdf/Brochure-GF-Ultra%20Pro.pdf

Canned foods do not need starches to hold them together so they can go all the way down to 1% carbohydrates on a caloric basis. They can also be of a higher quality due to less processing and and a more natural moisture content. The canned foods I have listed below are all below 10% carbs but their fat content is high.

/dog-food-reviews/evo-dog-food-canned/
/dog-food-reviews/wellness-dog-food-core-canned/
/dog-food-reviews/tripett-dog-food/
/dog-food-reviews/by-nature-95-percent-meat/
/dog-food-reviews/castor-pollux-ultramix-grain-free-canned/

Remember that any changes in diet will require a change in the amount of insulin your Mom’s dog will receive. Lowering Carbs will require you to lower the amount of insulin your mom’s dog gets on a daily basis. Changes should be made slowly and gradually and with the help of a VET. Home monitoring of the dog’s blood sugar will greatly help you to manage the dog’s diabetes.

It’s nice that you are looking out for your mom and her dog!!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Zach –

Primal’s raw formulas could certainly be used as a topper to boost the quality of kibble. You could also use tinned sardines and fresh veggies. The benefits of using the Primal would be that it’s a complete and balanced food so you could add as much as you wanted and it’s raw however, canned sardines and fresh cooked veggies would still be a good boost and would certainly be cheaper. If you go with the Primal, like I said, you can add as much as you want because it’s complete and balanced – just be sure the reduce the amount of kibble he’s receiving accordingly. If you’re feeding sardines and veggies, it should account for no more than 10% of your dog’s calories.

[Jennifer H]

My toy poodle, Milo, had Pancreatitis the end of May. A few years ago he was diagnosed with Wheat Allergies and our vet at the time recommended Natures Recipe Grain Free Dry Dog Food. He had been eating that food for years without any issues. He is prone to occasional ear infections. He has been seeing his current vet for less then a year. When he came home from the hospital after the pancreatitis, the vet sent him home with Royal Canin dog food and the tech at the vet said that after he was finished eating the Royal Canin they sent me home with, that he could go back to eating his regular pet food. He just need to not eat anything that was high in fat or salt. My poodle is big. He weighs about 17lbs. He is not overweight for his size, just a big poodle. A neighbor was feeding him pig ears without our knowledge so I thought perhaps this had caused the Pancreatitis. Anyway, I tried to put him back on his regular food and he refused to eat it. It was a dry kibble. I brought this to the vets attention and at that time they said they wanted him to remain on Royal Canin. I purchased a case without reading the ingredients first and I couldn’t believe I was feeding this to my pet. Milo has changed eating this food. He is constantly hungry. He begs for food, pesters you until you give him something more to eat and he has begun to scratch non-stop. He has been getting non-stop ear infections, biting and licking his paws and has very loose stool. I have left dry food down for him to eat, but he will not eat it. The symptoms he shows with the ears and biting/licking are usually signs I have seen in him in the past when he had food allergies. I returned to the vet and they did not think this was a big deal. The vet tech actually commented that it sounds like my dog likes the Royal Canin. (um, no I don’t think so either) They gave me more prednisone and told me to give him 1 Benadryl, twice a day, every day.
On the Benadryl, all Milo does is sleep. He acts spaced out. He is still scratching like crazy. I have read so much information on so many topics that my head is spinning. I feel so bad for my little guy and I am at a loss as to what to do for him. I have looked into different pet foods, but most of the high quality foods that are grain free are loaded with starch or fat. Any advice anyone could give me would be so much appreciated. I have tried diluted vinegar rinses and it seems to help for the night, but the next day he is back to scratching non stop. Is there any foods out there that are low fat, with no starch and no grains? I have tried a few brands that have quality ingredients, but I have found they have a lot of starch (potatoes, sweet potatoes, in gravy) and while he has enjoyed the food, it is not helping with the itching. I would prefer ingredients that are ok for human consumption (I don’t want to eat it, but I want him to have the best). I have tried MyPerfectPet, but it is loaded with potatoes and he has scratched even more. I have read so much that my head is spinning and I am at a loss. I just want him to be happy and healthy. Thanks again in advance.