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Hi Dori & C4C,
She had 2 incisors pulled after finding pockets in the gums. I was concerned only about the potential bacteria from raw. As you probably already know, I normally feed 1 meal raw & 1 canned/kibble mix. I can easily just feed canned food for several days. I was looking for others with experience in this situation.
While we’re at it, any thoughts on natural anti-inflammatory? I do have turmeric.Yeah, pitlove, you are wise to have chosen another vet. In my case my dogs were rescues with the spay/neuter already out of our control. We have literally spent thousands of dollars on surgeries and rehabilitation. This is not in a typical family’s budget, which often results in those dogs ending up back in a shelter. :'(
pitlove, I absolutely agree! I was going to bring it up since, as you might know, I have had a lot of early neuter/CCL problems. Unfortunately, it’s(neuter) already done. 🙁
Udi W, since the subject has already been brought up, please choose a food wisely since the hip displasia and CCL tears are a very real possibility!
Hi Udi W,
There is no such thing as “neuter dog food”! It’s disappointing that your vet is trying to sell you on Royal Canin. 🙁 I’m not a personal fan of TOTW, but I dislike Royal Canin more. If you search on this forum there are a lot of discussions and recommended foods for feeding a large breed puppy to prevent joint/bone disorders. You could pick a food recommended from that list. The one thing you are going to have to watch is the calorie intake as you don’t want your puppy to grow too fast and I would definitely suggest feeding 2 meals per day as opposed to one.
Red has given you some good suggestions. I have/had labs myself. My current ones are over 10 and somewhere in the 5-7ish range, male & female, both altered. I’ve never fed a “neuter dog food” and they are both in excellent shape because I watch the calories and they get lots of walks.
I’ve had a bit of experience with this very issue. Growing up, dogs and cats were not neutered. None of the family dogs had issues. With our own dogs if they were neutered, it was in adulthood, over 2 years old. We had no issues. About 18 years ago, we got a puppy from a local shelter who was neutered @ 8 weeks old. He was a large breed male(80 lbs). He tore his first cruciate @ 2 years old when he was in fantastic shape and very active. He tore the second one a year later. We have another rescue that we found in a kill shelter (stray with no known history) that was about 8 months old, female, large breed who had been spayed at some point in her life prior to being in the kill shelter. She tore her cruciate @ 5 years old and on the other knee there a partial tear at some point after this.
As a result I’m strongly against pediatric neutering. I have a current dog that I foster failed who was at least 3 years old (maybe 5) that was intact male until I got him. He has great muscle and really solid bone structure. The problem is I foster and the groups are now doing pediatric neutering. I understand that they don’t want more unwanted puppies, but I feel the dogs and the owners (financially) often end up suffering because of this. On the flip side, many large dog breeders are no longer guaranteeing sound dogs if you neuter before 18 months. The research is also pointing to less of the early benefits regarding cancers, etc. that were originally touted. If I had the choice today I would do a sterilization, like a vasectomy in humans. Here are some links:http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx
http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498
http://www.dogsports.com/rethinkingspayneuter.html
Good luck in your decision!
Hi Miss Koa,
First let me say I am not a fan of skeptvet. I do feed raw but I use a commercial raw to feed my dogs. Most of them are HPP processed, especially on the poultry to reduce the possibility of salmonella. If you are feeding your own prepared Raw Diet you do need to be very careful to balance the nutrition properly. If you’re doing this I would research online to get some balance recipes. Many people are simply throwing their dogs some raw meat and calling it a raw diet but that’s nutritionally wrong. theBCnut did give you some good advice and Aimee is correct on some companies using the HPP process and that it can be and is found in kibble and treats. If you research the commercial raw websites, they generally will tell you which are/are not or if all products are HPP processed.
If you are really uncomfortable with feeding raw, you could cook fresh meat and use a premix (Grandma Lucy’s, Sojos, The Honest Kitchen, etc) to feed a fresher diet. I do this on a regular basis in my rotation as well.
I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but the dirtiest/germiest thing in your kitchen is you sponge (if you use one). I microwave my dishrag for 2 minutes every morning and sometimes during the day. I’ve never had any issues with Salmonella since raw feeding. I also have 2 sets of bowls for my dogs and they go in the dishwasher every night.I’m including some links on homemade raw diets and salmonella from the CDC:
Whole Dog Journal:
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_7/features/Home-Prepared-Dog-Food-Nutritional-Information_20568-1.htmlCDC Salmonella, general info:
http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/Some cleaning tips:
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/safe-food-handling/cleanliness-helps-prevent-foodborne-illness/CT_Indexhttp://www.livescience.com/1248-study-microwaves-kill-kitchen-germs.html
Hi Chris!
Everyone here has given you some great advice. I’ve used several of the brands mentioned here. I’ve never had a problem with Nutiva and the company has great customer service when I called with questions. I’ve used the Costco brand, Nature’s Way, Barleans and PLNT (I think it’s Vitamin Shoppes brand). Just make sure it’s unrefined and virgin. I looked up Virgin vs Extra Virgin before I bought coconut oil and that seems to just be a marketing term.Pitlove, Here are a couple of links about coconut oil for cats:
http://bostonstreetvet.com/2014/12/12/10-uses-for-coconut-oil-for-pet-health/
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html
I’ve had really good luck with petfow and wag. A lot of people like chewy but I haven’t used them yet.
I use THK, Grandma Lucy’s and Sojos in rotation. I normally use the premix and add fresh cooked meat to them. I also occaisonally use the meat inclusive and will sometimes add fresh cooked meat or raw eggs to these to up the protein level. My dogs love them all. 🙂
Unfortunately, there is no “one chew fits all”. One of my dogs is a very aggressive chewer and has broken teeth resulting in some very expensive dental bills. She did it on a thick bully stick. I use a variety of hard rubber type chews along with pig or bison ears, trachea, snouts. They don’t last as long, but they’re safer in preventing any more breakage. The frozen stuffed Kongs Aquariangt suggested are a great choice.
Honestly, he’s probably shedding because of the diet. The RX diets are not nearly the quality of what you were feeding him. You might want to think about switching him back to a well rated wet food. Eating a diet with a lot of moisture is your best friend in combatting bladder stones.
I have a 10+ yo lab with arthritis for over 5 years due to injury and we walk a couple of miles almost every day. I use human fish oil and glucosamine pills, but with a guy that little you might want to check out doses that would fit his size. The vitamin shoppe has dog specific fish oils. I know some of the people here use nordic naturals. You could use them independently. I use human fish oil & glucosamine in seperate forms. Here’s a site that might help, it’s Dogaware:
http://www.dogaware.com/health/arthritissupps.htmlIt seems that soy is often used as the Mixed Tocopherol Vitamin E source. I called Nature Made about it. I still use their fish oil pills since the double strength has double the EPA & DHA in each capsule. My dog hasn’t had any problem with it & I like the fact that Human Grade is more purified.
The sardines and mackeral are the source of the EPA & DHA, not vitamin E. They are actually a safer source than salmon as the mercury contamination is minimal, if any. As far as I know, sardines and mackerel are wild caught and not farmed either.You can feed cat food to dogs but be careful. They often use Menadione Sodium Bisulfate complex (Vit K3) in cat foods as it’s allowed. It’s in many cat foods, including Weruva & Stella & Chewy’s Freeze Dried!
I use human fish oil for my dog that has arthritis in both hind knees due to old CCL tears. It’s really helped for over 5 years. She has very minimal arthritis and walks well.
Here’s a link to VA which is very mainstream. They seem to prefer fish oil.
http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/flax-seed-oil/458I’m sure some of the “raw” regulars could answer your question better, but here is my experience. I started my older lab mix on raw when he was about 11. He didn’t really have any issues(a bit of loose stool at first) with it but since he had spent so many years eating “cooked” food he didn’t really like the raw unless I warmed it to a medium rare temperature. If your Lab is in good health, you could try it very slowly. If he has any immune compromised issues, I would probably not do raw. Another option is using a premix raw (The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, Sojos, etc) and adding fresh cooked meat to it. This might be an easier transition for him. I do this on a regular basis for my dogs in addition to rotating it with raw, and a canned/kibble mix.
I have a 10 yo chocolate lab that I used to feed a blend of 5 star kibble & canned mixed. We did raw about 3-4 nights a week for the last 6 years & raw or fresh cooked with a “raw” premix for dinner for over a year now. I have 2 large dogs and usually large dog fosters so I need to keep costs down or I would do raw or fresh all the time. We noticed an energy increase in our already energetic 10 yo since we’ve increased the raw.
I use the Vital and the Vital Raw every few months. I used to use the Vital in the package with pieces of meat for an older dog that wasn’t eating well. The only problem I’ve ever had was that 1 bag turned very sour smelling 2 days after opening. The customer service was very good and I was contacted by a rep within a few days. So I’m thinking it might be the distributer or the way it was handled. Just my 2 cents.
Just thought I’d chime in again. We didn’t have the anal gland issue until the antibiotics & a run of diarrhea. Now that we changed her diet all is well. I do feed a bit of pumpkin for fiber & add kefir as a probiotic daily. BC is right, if the stool is too soft or small it won’t squeeze the gland to empty it. I’m glad losul included Dr Becker’s link.
I don’t know if you’ve seen this link, it’s Peter Dobias. He suggests some specific supplements for anal gland issues. It might be a help. I have a foster that has those problems, but only intermittently. The interesting thing is when we had to put her on a round of antibiotics for her allergies, the anal gland issue flaired up and went from no apparent problem to abcess within a few days. Fish seems to be her allergy. We have her on NV Limited Ingredient diets and so far turkey and rabbit have been successful. Here’s the link:
http://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11014181-holistic-approach-to-anal-gland-problems-in-dogs
I’ve watched The Dog Whisperer. How would you know if the dog’s aggression was actually fear based? The problem with the show is even though it has the disclaimer, everyone suddenly thinks they can do the same techniques with their dogs. I feel that’s where the problems begin.
I don’t use any of these types of chews as have a very aggressive chewer to the point of broken teeth.
Earthborn, Zignature, Canidae Pure, Fromm, Orijen, Acana – there are many brands that have poultry free formulas.
Hi Andrea,
Everyone has given you great tips. Just a couple of foods that get good ratings and are reasonably priced are Earthborn and Whole Earth Farms. I also agree that adding some fresh or canned food is really one of the best things you can do for your dog. Dogs aren’t being picky when they want fresh food. You would never eat or feed your family completely dehydrated food (kibble). I always add canned when feeding kibble and there are some very good canned foods at very reasonable prices.
I’ve been through ACL/CCL surgery and rehab with 2 dogs. The most important thing you can do after surgery is some rehab and you will have to supplement for the rest of her life. We did not do it as rigorously with our first dog and he ended up with joint stiffness. We have done it with our current dog and she is doing very well 5 years later. We did rehab & supplements and she is very active in spite of arthritis in both knees. The arthritis is unavoidable regardless of surgery, so the more proactive you are, the better and more successful the recovery. Good Luck with her!LOL Susan! My fear aggressive dog would walk every day with me and if anything was out of place, he would immediately bark at it to “chase it away”. The change of seasons and yard decorations were often a crazy time for him.
Labs is suggesting the exact way to desensitize the dog. Just remember to keep it really slow and don’t push. You have to work under the dog’s threshhold. If you are not really familiar with the dog’s stress signals, it might be best to wait until your trainer can work on this with you. The shaking is a definite signal of stress. If she is at that point, she really should be removed from whatever situation you are in. Here’s a service dog link listing stress signals that might help:http://servicedogcentral.org/content/signs-of-stress-checklist
It’s in my area and several places are not boarding. The sad thing is I know someone who had their dog kenneled @ a vet’s boarding facility while on spring break and when they came back it had caught something during the stay and died. :'(
I use Bravo on a fairly regular basis. I use the balance most often as it is complete and balanced. When I use the blends, I generally add some type of dehydrated premix (Sojo’s, Grandma Lucy’s, The Honest Kitchen, etc., not a lot) to it to get the vitamin balance.
Aj K, I used Derramax years ago because I had a lab mix and knew the issues with labs and Rimadyl. Even though I used small occaisonal doses and was careful, it did a number on his liver and ultimately his kidneys. The adequan is a very good choice and I realize the dog is senior, but Tramadol (more of a morphine like based pain killer but no damage to liver or kidneys) might be a better choice. We switched to that when the kidney failure set it. Fish oil supplements would be helpful and Dori offered some supplement suggestions that could be useful. Good luck with your baby!
Sam, I would always assume the worst. Any dog can bite, even the friendliest, sweetest dog in the world. And unfortunately, you’ve only had her a couple of months, so it’s best to err on the side of she might bite.
D_O is right. If you are only doing class lessons, a few private lessons with someone familiar with reactive dogs (if your trainer is not) and positive reinforcement is always helpful.
agt, I forgot to mention that my little girl made it all the way through Canine Good Citizen! We’ve had her since she was about 8 months, and had no training except she appeared house broken when we got her. So it’s a happy ending!
Sam, she should be able to work out for you, but your trainer will be the best to judge. Do you always bring really good treats with you? It doesn’t always work because I have a current dog that shuts down completely when extremely stressed, but is not aggressive. He would not respond to treats in a really stressful situation. So, again after working with a trainer I slowly desensitized him by starting below his threshold, always carrying treats and slowly working up. There are still things we need to work on, but we have come a very long way.
When you find your dog in that type of situation, probably the best thing to do is walk her away and focus on something else. Sometimes even throwing a treat to the floor and letting her “find it” can refocus her energy. But again, you might need to work with a trainer who is familiar with reactive dogs. A good thing to do is really focus on her body language. Sometimes it is very subtle and/or very quick. Every dog has different thresholds. I don’t know how familiar you are with stress signals in dogs, but here’s a link:
http://www.liamjperkfoundation.org/stress.htmlThere are many of these on the internet. You do need to learn to read your dog. Then you will see the triggers more quickly.
Michael Saull, are you a behaviorist or a trainer? I think not as you are not even aware that fear aggression is probably the most common behavior seen by trainers and behaviorists when people are seeking help with their dogs. Your posts are wrong and dangerous if people read them and try this. Nat Geo’s Dog Whisperer has made a whole lot of people watching the show think they’re dog trainers.
I’ve have/had fearful and fear aggressive dogs. Of course, I have/had very balanced dogs too, but the fear aggressive one taught me the most about dogs. It took a very long time to socialize and counter condition the fear aggressive one to where he was a wonderful dog that people loved. When he passed on a few years ago, many people posted on how much they would miss him and that he was one of the best, most character filled dogs they every met. We took him through so much training and a behaviorist that I now have 2 personal friends that are trainers and behaviorists (and I’m not talking the Petsmart kind of trainers). We also knew the very few triggers we couldn’t counter condition that would set him off, but they were Vet related.
The best way to deal with dogs that are fearful and have some aggression issues are desensitization and counter conditioning. Here’s just a quick link to ASPCA on this topic:
https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/desensitization-and-counterconditioning
Sam Koch, I don’t know what kind of service dog you were going to use Honey for, but I would seriously consider consulting with a very good trainer. The service dog trainer may work. I can’t say exactly, but she was probably reacting to the girls raincoat as it was foreign to her. The problem is you are still in the “honeymoon” period of rescue. She may get better or worse. It’s hard to say. Some dogs are just fearful and will react when pressed. I have a Lab we got in a kill shelter that had tapeworms, her ears and forehead and cigarette burns in them, has a damaged trachea that the kill shelter thought was bordatella, and yet she is the most confident, easy going dog you would ever know. Everyone loves her. My fear aggressive dog (a lab mix) was an 8 week old puppy that had never been abused, beaten, etc. that so many rescuers think is the problem with the dogs that are fearful. He came to the rescue from a normal family. Just as in people, all dogs are different. Good luck with it. Keep us posted!DO NOT DO THIS!!!
That’s the Ceasar Milan “Dog Whisperer” technique that shouldn’t be used, especially if you aren’t a dog trainer. I’ve seen so many people do this that shouldn’t.
I’ve had fearful & fear aggressive dogs but I can’t give some input until later. I’m not a trainer, but I have a good amount of experience. I’m the foster that is often asked to take the problem dogs.Petflow has 30% off Nutrisource today only! I don’t use it, but it looks like all varieties for those who do!
Interesting article L M. Having 2 dogs with ACL/Meniscus tears in both knees, I’ve done a ton of research on this for many years. I do agree with most of the article, but find they’ve missed what seems to be a big problem that is only now becoming mainstream knowledge. Early spay/neuter is a HUGE reason for this. Here’s a UCDavis link:
http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10498There are many more, but this just gives you some insight. My first early neuter boy was very young, healthy and athletic, but was an adopted dog and was pediatric neutered @ 8 weeks. My chocolate was rescued @ about 8 months and was already spayed. We found out when the vets (not my normal one) opened her up to spay. He did have surgery (fishing line) and it was successful, but he slowly became forever stiff as we were not as familiar with supplements and therapy back then. Our chocolate went through rehab therapy prior to surgery per my vets recommendation and did so well, she did not require surgery. We have kept her on fish oil and glucosamine supplements for over 5 years and kept her on the slim side. While she has diagnosed arthritis in both knees, she is still very active (walks up to 2 miles almost daily) and we continually do strength exercises on her. She is 10 and with the exception of a sloppy sit (which she’s always had since we found her) you would not be able to tell.
So, I really feel that the most important part of recovery is therapy along with continual supplementation of fish oil and glucosamin/chondroitin. I use human supplements.Hi Trevorpup,
Having 2 Labs myself it does seem hard to believe there is such a thing as a fussy Lab! LOL!
Labs & C4C have given you some great advice. Victor and Earthborn are both reasonably priced dog foods. Have you tried adding just a bit of wet (canned) food mixed into the food. That might make it more enticing since he loved the raw food. Anything that tastes more like real food will usually attract a fussy dog. I have 2 Labs and fosters on a regular basis so I need everyone to eat all their food and bowls are cleared. I always mix some canned food and warm water into the kibble. It allows the kibble to absorb the flavor of the canned food and it’s always been a success for me.
Congratulations on your pup and thanks for rescuing! From a foster point of view, it allows another one to be saved! 🙂I’m lucky enough that my vet is a dental specialist. Of course he is on the expensive side, but well worth it as he can use very special anesthetics for dogs with special issues. The vet clinics that offer the specials do not have this option, but for people who would not or could not do the dental, often due to a lack of funds, I think the low cost dental clinics is a good opportunity to help the dogs that wouldn’t receive the needed dental work otherwise. The whole point behind them in my state is to get dogs treated that wouldn’t be due to owners not having the funds to get treatement for their dogs.
Totally right, InkedMarie! I always do bloodwork first! My Lab’s bill was $2K, but we did a root canal and a couple of extractions as a preemptive due to deep fissures on the opposite side. Normally my vet is around $300, but he is a specialist and it’s money well spent. Many of the issues as a dog ages can be directly related to poor dental health.
We are now doing a dental on a foster I have as she had very high liver ALT. I’ve brought it down so she is on the schedule!
Many states or areas (mine does) have low cost dentals. We have a local group that does it as a special for $99 plus blood work @ $35. Such a low cost for such a valuable procedure!I haven’t read all the posts, and I haven’t been on very often before recently, but I’ve tried to help Akari too, though not on the forum side. I have a Min Pin foster that needs and is going to get a dental since I’ve brought her liver numbers down to normal using the Sam-e and Milk thistle I was advising her on. I was trying to save her some money since it’s less expensive than using Denamarin and it seemed that cost was a serious issue. My vet did say that part of the reason for the high liver enzymes was very possibly due to the teeth (they are not rotted and no gingivitis but have had some serious tartar). I am the one paying for this dental.
I did find her posts strange as they all seemed to contradictory. At any rate, I do agree with the recent posts. When my dog blew his ACL years ago, I worked out a plan with my vet to pay for it monthly since we couldn’t afford it. When my Lab needed rehab, it was out of our budget, but I came up with the money. When she broke a tooth on a chew, I spent the money we saved for a patio (we really needed it since the deck decayed and we tore it out) we used the patio money and again, some monthly payments to pay for the root canal dental bill. We could have pulled the tooth for a bit less, but she loved to play ball so it was my suggestion and decision to save the tooth (my vet is a dental specialist). My point is you are their caretakers. If you take on the responsibility of a dog, you need to take care of it properly.
It’s funny, but I have several dog friends that are shocked when I’m crockpot cooking a whole pork loin for my dogs. They always think dogs shouldn’t eat pork. I trim any excessive fat and they just LOVE it! I totally agree with BC on the pig ears and small dogs. I have large dogs and they get them in a rotation and haven’t had a problem. I did try pork for my foster that seems to have some allergy issues, but it didn’t seem to work for her. She’s on a limited ingredient Turkey canned/kibble & raw turkey and seems to be doing well.
I can’t relate to not dogs wanting food. I have Labs 😉 & fosters that are all underweight.
Thanks for the Costco info DF! I make roasted chicken similar to you, Aquariangt, except I do sage instead of rosemary. Dogs get crock pot chicken with organic celery & carrots. My dogs & family are never sure who I’m cooking for! LOL!Oceans11, just another thought. After the diarrhea is cleared up you could follow InkedMarie and C4C’s suggestions. If you gently boil a bit of chicken on the bone (added flavor) and mix it with a commercial premix, that might work. Just remove the meat from the bone before using. I make whole chickens in the crock pot, pull all the meat off and mix it with a premix for my dogs. They love it!
C4C, I’ve never tried See Spot Live Longer. Is it similar to THK, Grandma Lucy’s and Sojos?
I know you said it’s out of production right now, but is it only available online? I’d love to try it.I used to use Zuke’s when they were a private company. They were purchased by Nestle Purina in January 2014. 🙁
I hope everything works out well for your senior girl. It’s always tough when they get to the geriatric stage. We had a 15 year old Husky mix that started urinating at night. Have you thought of putting a doggie diaper on her just to keep her dry and clean? Also I think you mentioned that she had arthritis. Have you tried adding just a bit of fish oil to her diet or some of the commercially available arthritis dog meds like cosequin? Adequin is a vet prescribed injection that you can be taught to use by the vet. There is always turmeric (my own preference) if you want to try a more natural approach. Easing the arthritis pain has helped my older dogs and while it might not help with the incontinence it could make her more comfortable. The only thing I never recommed are any of the NSAIDS. We used them in very small and occaisional doses and ended up with liver issues and quite possibly the kidney failure that occurred. Good Luck with your girl!
I’m chiming in on this. Has she seen a vet recently? If not, I think a vet visit with a complete blood panel is in order. I do them every year on my dogs. It could be any number of things and I’ve dealt with many, especially when a dog is older. Please do a vet check ASAP.
EDIT: I may have read this as 11 years as opposed to 1. I still like to have a vet check my dogs just in case.UGH! C4C, My original foster failure had giardia too. The rescue insisted that he was fine and just had a nervous tummy and I told them that even on boiled chicken, rice, pumpkin and slippery elm I only got stools that had to be hosed down, not even firm enough to scoop. 🙁 The only thing that finally got him through it was Metranidazole. I use probiotic Kefir and pumpkin in every breakfast on everyone and all the new rescues, and found Diatomaceous Earth on a rotational basis to be a godsend.
