New to raw…question re: safety?

Dog Food Advisor Forums Raw Dog Food New to raw…question re: safety?

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  • #74599 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    Hi there! New to the forum and new to raw feeding. I had a question re safety….(I’m sorry if it’s been asked before…if it is a repeat, could someone direct me? Thank you in advance.) I was just curious, where do you feed your dogs? When they have raw juices like chicken juice on their paws and all over their mouth, is that safe and also safe to run around the house after eating? I have to admit, I’m paranoid about salmonella in the house. At first I started to feed my pup in her crate and then after, carry her straight outside. The weather has been good lately so I started to feed her outside..not in the crate because she would whine and not eat. Then she started to run into the garden with her chicken, which scares me because I know some plants can get salmonella. Lol! My husband thinks I’m paranoid about nothing. That may be so, but I still don’t like the thought of chicken juice paw prints all over the house, clothes,toys and on our bed. I wipe down the kitchen area after handling raw meat…I guess my main concern is about transference of salmonella onto things after she eats. Obviously I won’t let her give kisses or anything like that right after she’s eaten. Hahaha. Do you wash their paws? Or do nothing? Thanks in advance! πŸ™‚

    #74600 Report Abuse

    Anonymous
    Member

    You may find this site helpful http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

    #74602 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    Thanks for your input, Red. I will think about this some more. πŸ™‚

    #74605 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    If you are so worried about germs, then I would suggest feeding grinds. Dogs eat them like canned food with no reason to get the juices all over their legs. If you are feeding whole pieces for the dental benefits, then you could feed those weekly outside and rinse their legs off afterward. My dogs wash like cats and I don’t worry about it. We have robust immune systems here. I wouldn’t risk it with a small child in the house or an immunocompromised family member though.

    #74607 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    Thanks, theBCnut! Good points. Yeah, the bone thing is mainly for the teeth. We’re all pretty healthy here too. I guess I’m just more anxious. We had dogs before (one just recently passed on at 17!) And they were on kibble. My husband wanted to try the raw diet for this one…..but I’m the one doing all the work!! So it’s all very new to me. I still have lots to read on balancing out nutrition etc. I’m glad I found this forum though! Thanks again for your input! πŸ™‚

    #74608 Report Abuse

    Anonymous
    Member

    Brush the teeth every evening, check youtube for how to videos.
    It makes a big difference.

    Have you used the search engine here? Best of luck.

    #74609 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    Thanks again, Red! I love YouTube! Using it now for tips on clicker training. I haven’t used the search engine on the site. I just joined so still working my way around. πŸ™‚ Thanks!

    #74638 Report Abuse

    aimee
    Member

    Hi Miss Koa,

    Bacterial transference is a concern, not only from the material on her mouth and legs but also from the other end too. Salmonella can be a hardy bacteria and a simple wash down after eating is unlikely to eliminate it.

    I had a reference, and may still have it, just don’t have time to look, in which the contents of the vacuum cleaner was cultured from homes with raw fed dogs in them, 10% cultured positive. However, homes without raw fed dogs cultured positive as well. It was a much smaller number but statistically there wasn’t a large enough sample to be significant. The stuff gets around. Avoiding raw altogether doesn’t eliminate risk completely as kibble occasionally tests positive and raw protein “treats” are a source as well ( dehydrated chews ie pig ears)

    Salmonella is more common in poultry products so you could just avoid those. Another option would be to use a commercial high pressure pasteurized product. Both options would reduce risk. Some companies test and hold their products.

    theBcnut summed it up nicely. If there are immunocompromised people in the home, children and I may even add adults on acid reducing medications the risk will be increased that transfer could happen to the individuals in your home. I decided raw wasn’t appropriate for my household. Not just for Salmonella but for other reasons as well.

    For great clicker training videos see kikopup on youtube. Her website is dogmantics dot come.

    #74640 Report Abuse

    C4D
    Member

    Hi Miss Koa,

    First let me say I am not a fan of skeptvet. I do feed raw but I use a commercial raw to feed my dogs. Most of them are HPP processed, especially on the poultry to reduce the possibility of salmonella. If you are feeding your own prepared Raw Diet you do need to be very careful to balance the nutrition properly. If you’re doing this I would research online to get some balance recipes. Many people are simply throwing their dogs some raw meat and calling it a raw diet but that’s nutritionally wrong. theBCnut did give you some good advice and Aimee is correct on some companies using the HPP process and that it can be and is found in kibble and treats. If you research the commercial raw websites, they generally will tell you which are/are not or if all products are HPP processed.
    If you are really uncomfortable with feeding raw, you could cook fresh meat and use a premix (Grandma Lucy’s, Sojos, The Honest Kitchen, etc) to feed a fresher diet. I do this on a regular basis in my rotation as well.
    I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but the dirtiest/germiest thing in your kitchen is you sponge (if you use one). I microwave my dishrag for 2 minutes every morning and sometimes during the day. I’ve never had any issues with Salmonella since raw feeding. I also have 2 sets of bowls for my dogs and they go in the dishwasher every night.

    I’m including some links on homemade raw diets and salmonella from the CDC:

    Whole Dog Journal:
    http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_7/features/Home-Prepared-Dog-Food-Nutritional-Information_20568-1.html

    CDC Salmonella, general info:
    http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/

    Some cleaning tips:
    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/safe-food-handling/cleanliness-helps-prevent-foodborne-illness/CT_Index

    http://www.livescience.com/1248-study-microwaves-kill-kitchen-germs.html

    #74644 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    Good morning! Thank you Aimee and C4D for taking the time out to reply! It is pretty overwhelming… Interesting study regarding the vacuum contents. I had no idea! So my fear isn’t THAT irrational then. Lol! But yeah, I’m trying to figure out if this is right for me or not. I appreciate any input for and against raw feeding…I rather be well informed than just go into it thinking “people say it’s best, so it must be true” kind of thing. Thank you C4D for the links! I have heard about the sponge thing and was told to throw them in the dishwasher once in a while, but I like your idea of nuking them for two minutes. Thanks for the tip!
    I am looking at recipes and nutritional information and feel overwhelmed a bit. My husband is one of those people who figures all they need is meat and sometimes some organs. He’s very stubborn. >:(
    Also, I am in Canada, so I don’t know if I can find the same brands of commercial raw dog food here. Do you order online or do they sell them at pet stores or? Chicken and meat in general is expensive here, but we also want what’s best for our dog. πŸ™‚ Thank you again for all your input! So much to read, so much to learn! πŸ™‚

    #74647 Report Abuse

    Anonymous
    Member

    I don’t know if you saw this when/if you used the search button, you may find some useful tips http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

    I like The SkeptVet, I was listening to the homeopathic vets and some of what they say just doesn’t make sense to me.

    I find The SkeptVet”s opinions to be to be more science based. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2013/11/raw-diets-for-pets/comment-page-1/#comment-111864

    #74672 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Hi Miss Koa-
    I only regularly feed my dogs fresh once per week. I buy fresh ground turkey or beef and lightly brown it and add a commercial premix to it for the proper vitamins and such. I’m not that worried about salmonella in the meat, but I just cannot bring myself to feed it totally raw. But, it does get pinker and pinker every week. Hope you find a comfortable solution that you both agree on.

    C4D-
    Good tip for dissinfecting the “wipers”!

    #74684 Report Abuse

    Kristin C
    Member

    Hi Miss Koa-I feed both my dogs raw, mostly homemade and raw meaty bones, no more than 2-3 kibble meals per week. The ratio between homemade raw and commercial raw I feed depends upon the time of year. Right now, I will buy more commercial raw since the summer gets busy and it’s also easier to feed RMBs. I also buy raw nuggets from Steve’s Real Food For Dogs. It’s not HPP treated though, which I prefer. I also order grinds and RMBs from Reel Raw in Maine, and occasionally get turkey necks from a grocery store. When I make homemade food it’s a combo of muscle meat and organs plus a supplement. When I feed RMBs I make sure I add matching organs in proportion (this is cheaper I am finding). I also add some fish oil and vit E a few time per week (or sardines) plus a raw egg and cottage once or twice per week.

    I have not found feeding raw to have any contamination issues. When I make the food I take the same precautions as if I was making food for me and my husband. Children,and the ill, I would watch out for though as others have mentioned. I only feed raw grinds inside, I feed in small mason jars. RMBs I feed outside, but my dogs don’t use their paws.

    The final thing I can add about feeding raw is that I think it’s great IF it works for your dog. It is definitely a process. I have changed how I feed my dogs several times in the last year, keep reading and form your own opinions on what works for your dog and household.

    #74687 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    Thank you Red for the PDF. I hadn’t searched it. It has very interesting info. I appreciate that! I like that I can refer to it on my tablet because I have it with me all the time. πŸ™‚

    Hi, crazy4cats! Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I know, the thought of raw meat kind of gives me the heebie jeebies. πŸ˜€ Where can I find this “commercial premix” stuff? Is it expensive? Is it sold in regular stores or do I have to order it online? Right now I’m doing a raw chicken in the morning and kibble in the evening…at least until I can figure stuff out. πŸ™‚ At least my husband isn’t complaining….yet. πŸ™‚

    Hi Kristin C! Thank you for your reply! What is “homemade raw”? Do you grind the muscle meat, organs and supplements together? Also, do you feed it at the same time with the raw meaty bones or are they separate meals? I’m glad to hear that you haven’t had any contamination issues. That’s my main concern. I am very diligent about keeping my kitchen and work area very clean. ( I’m a bit of a germaphobe…lol! ) I was concerned more like if my dog ate her chicken, then she walked around the house, would it get on my socks…then if I went to lie down, will it transfer from my socks to the bed….that kind of thing. πŸ™‚ Maybe I’m over thinking this too much.

    I agree. It is a process and I can’t say for SURE that this is the best diet…still researching…but I also feel that I like the idea of feeding my dog food that I know is not filled with unnecessary chemicals and fillers.

    Thank you everyone for your opinions and input. I appreciate all the help I get! πŸ™‚

    #74688 Report Abuse

    Kristin C
    Member

    Yes, I grind the meat and organs and add a supplement. I put the grinds in mason jars and freeze. It’s easy to thaw and feed inside.

    I feed the RMB plus organs as a separate meal. I only feed these outside. My dog’s don’t touch the meat with their paws so we don’t have contamination concerns. I also watch them as they eat no matter what so I think that helps

    #74711 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    That’s a neat idea to freeze them in Mason jars! How handy! I’ve had to feed my dog the chicken in an extra crate because she started to take it into the garden beds and tried to bury it or she would follow me with it. So now I have to stay put and watch her eat. πŸ™‚
    Thank you for the tips!

    #75475 Report Abuse

    C4D
    Member

    Hi miss koa,

    I’m not sure if anyone answered this, the commercial premixes are the ones you add meat to make a complete meal. There are several. I’m most familiar with Sojos, Grandma Lucy’s & The Honest Kitchen, but I think there are others.

    #75889 Report Abuse

    Jonathan S
    Member

    I’m going to say this and it’s going to make me sound like a jerk, but I had to get over the bacteria scare thing too and this is how I did it…

    Dogs eat poop.

    Dogs eat cat poop, squirrel poop, raccoon poop, even their own poop. They step in poop, and they pee on their own feet. Salmonella and ecoli are regular things for them and their systems handle it differently than ours do. What else do you suppose they’re stepping in and tracking into your house?

    Yes, they could be getting salmonella and e-coli from the food you give them, but as long as it’s human grade food it’s far less likely than you may think. Besides, if there’s enough chicken juice on their paws to worry you, don’t you think they’ll lick that right off?

    For me, just handle the meet in a responsible way, the same way you would for your family. Be sensible and clean up properly, then let the dogs be dogs.

    #75892 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    Thank you C4D re: commercial mixes. I didn’t know that. I thought it was actual meat already mixed like sometimes you see those ones in a roll? I was thinking it was those. Thank you for clarifying. πŸ™‚

    Jonathan S – lol! Nah, you don’t sound like a jerk. It is what it is, and you are right. My pup’s eaten goose poop, cat poop, picked up (but not eaten, thank goodness!) dead mice etc. So yeah. I see your point. πŸ™‚
    Plus, so far, we are all still alive. Lol! I have been feeding her raw chicken in the evenings.

    I guess I was overly concerned because I bake cookies as a side “business” of sorts, and of course I make sure everything is clean and sanitized….even before we started the raw diet… But was scared mostly about transference…like say, if my husband or child had played with the dog earlier, then came to the kitchen and their shirt rubbed onto the counter or something and I didn’t know…then started baking…etc. Just was wondering the risks. Maybe the risk is very low, but I just wanted opinions. I wouldn’t want to sell salmonella cookies! Lol!!!

    Thank you again for taking the time to answer my question! πŸ™‚

    #75920 Report Abuse

    Jonathan S
    Member

    I would say you are exponentially more likely to put salmonella in your cookies from the way you crack your eggs than from transference from your dog. Keep clean, be responsible, and stop worrying.

    Remember, your dog can tell when you’re worried… if you’re worried about their paws they could pick up on it. I didn’t catch what kind of dog you have… I have Border Collies and they become obsessive very easily. If I started cleaning their paws on a regular basis I would worry that they would chew them off!

    #75963 Report Abuse

    Miss Koa
    Member

    Jonathan S: Yeah, that’s true about the eggs too. I guess I’m just a natural worry wart. haha. Ever since I had a kid, I’ve become more of a germaphobe and developed anxiety issues. In retrospect, I know my mom left meat on the kitchen counter for hours to defrost and we still lived. πŸ˜€
    I have a jack russell terrier. I do my best not to show how anxious i am about it since I am not allowed to leave, apparently, when she eats. lol. I’m not sure how or why, but ever since we got her, when I feed her, I must stay with her or she won’t eat the raw chicken. If I leave her, she will carry it around and follow me or try to bury it. So since then, I have always sat in a chair and waited for her to eat. When I feed kibble, she doesn’t seem to mind too much if I go about doing chores. I used to feed the chicken in her crate, but then she would lie in the juices when she wanted to change position or whatever. That just made it worse for me, so I started feeding her outside. That worked better. She just stayed in one spot under the chair I was sitting in and she was happy, I was happy.
    Thanks again for your input! I appreciate it.
    It’s a learning process, that’s for sure. πŸ™‚

    #75964 Report Abuse

    crazy4cats
    Member

    Oh Miss Koa, I assure you, you are NOT alone! LOL! I have one cat that wants me to stay by her when she eats too. But then….I have a psycho dog that I CANNOT look at while he eats. He’ll keep on looking at me looking at him if I stick around.

    The things we do for these guys! πŸ˜€

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