[aimee]

Hi james,
You have it correct in your first example . If the Fat to protein ratio is 60 % that would be equivalent to 6 parts fat / 10 parts protein. How this would play out then is for a food with as fed 24 % protein the fat content would be 60% of that
24 x .6 = 14.4 the ratio would 14.4/24 = .6 expressed as a percentage 60%

In the examples that Pugs mom gave you Wellness Core reduced fat 11% fat / 37% protein = 29.7% which is why she said ~ 30% The percentage of calories from fat is about 25% when those numbers are plugged into the balance it converter.

For B/D 19% protein and 16% fat the FTP ratio is 16/19 = .84 or84% However the % calories from fat are not 84%, she misspoke, the percent calories contributed from fat using the balance it converter is ~34% calories

For the Wellness dog food review the 42% fat to protein ratio was calculated using their avg fat content of 16% and their avg protein content of 38% 16%/38% = .421 or 42%

What does it mean? Well the higher the fat to protein ratio is, it can mean that the % of calories that are coming from fat may be higher than expected and percent of calories from protein lower than you might expect when looking at the GA or dry matter basis alone. For example a food with 35% protein and 40 % fat a ratio of 1.1 it may appear to be a high protein food but 25% of the calories are coming from protein and ~70% from fat.

Hope that helps

[aimee]

Hi Antonia,
Hopefully you have some more information to guide you.

I’m guessing the Royal Canin is canned diet which is why the protein looks so low.. To Copare diets you need to compare on a calorie basis… what percent of calories comes from protein… fat … etc.
Here is a tool to do that https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gaconverter/

Your vet may be able to create a recipe for you from the site Balanceit.com. It is run by a vet nutritionist and has appropriate supplements to balance the diet.

What food was your dog eating before she became ill? Know what she was on in the past can help you decide how to modify going forward.

[aimee]

Hi Antonio,

I’m sorry that your dog isn’t well. If your dog needs both controlled protein and fat then a homemade diet from a veterinary nutritionist may be the best option.

Did your dog have an ultrasound to diagnose pancreatitis? The reason I ask is because decreased kidney function can make the pancrease tests increased in the blood due to the decreased filtration. In that case the dog doesn’t actually have pancreatitis. However, , if your dog was dehydrated the pancreas could have been inflamed secondary to dehydration and may be more fat tolerant then a dog sensitive to dietary fat.

Alternatively, if your dog had pancreatitis dehydration from that will increase the kidney values, but once rehydrated those should have come back down if kidneys were OK. Or your dog could have underlying kidney disease and then got pancreatitis .

It can be tough to get it all figured out as one influences the other. Have you discussed your concern regarding the fat content with your vet?? G/D, may be a compromise in managing the two situations. Your vet is the best to guide you .

[aimee]

Lindsy,

What crystal type was your dog found to have?

The increased drinking and urination is what the diet is designed to do so I guess that doesn’t surprise me that you are seeing that effect.

[aimee]

Hi RRLover,
This is an something I looked in to. As I now understand it there are to types of carrageenan degraded and undegraded. Food grade carrageenan is undegraded carrageenan. Degraded carrageenan (poligeenan) is a known to be problematic. The problem is in some of the early studies degraded carrageenan (poligeenan) was simply called carrageenan.

After reading a lot on the topic I can say I’m comfortable with it, where as in the past I avoided it,

[aimee]

Hi Howard,

Food ratings on this site are based solely on label information. There is an inherent flaw in rating foods this way and this is addressed in various articles on the site. I agree that at this time, there is very real and very concerning information regarding diets of certain types. Until more is known, I’d agree with your veterinarian that it is best to avoid feeding suspect diets/ingredients and instead feed diets with well tested and understood ingredients.

Because diabetes in dogs is not diet related, except perhaps in relation to fat contributing to pancreatitis, and cancer has not been linked to any particular diet type it is immaterial that more dogs have been diagnosed with those conditions than diet related DCM.

Currently a lot is unknown and it may be years before diet related DCM is understood. In some ways the current DCM situation parallels the vaping situation. With vaping there is a correlation to presence of Vit E acetate in the vaping product, in diet related DCM there is a correlation to certain ingredients and grain free diets. In both situations other factors may also be in play and the definitive cause isn’t yet known.
As of Jan 21, 2020, according to the CDC, 60 deaths have occurred. Total number of death from DCM is unknown as mandatory reporting isn’t in place but certainly exceeds 60.
Some people may say only 60 people have died, vaping has been popular for decades and there is no reason not to vape. Others will find the risk of death from a product without any benefit unacceptable. The diets associated with DCM have no clear benefit and appear to carry a risk of death. Stores are taking the initiative to ban products. Veterinarians , to use your word “outlawed” grain free.

People will still vape and people still feed grain free because they evaluate risks differently.
I stick with companies that have demonstrated a vested interest in the nutritional health of all dogs through their continued feeding and monitoring of dogs in their diet research centers and contributions to nutritional research . Consulting with a veterinary nutritionist for a diet formulation or passing a feeding trial is not enough in my opinion.

[aimee]

Hi Korrin,

I’ve had Labs for the past 33 years. I’ve found I’ve gotten the best coats with Purina Pro Plan. I’ve tried other brands in past and after about 8 weeks my dog would develop “dandruff” and had increased shedding. It would take about 6-8 weeks after changing back to Pro Plan before the coat would recover.

It sounds like you’ve already asked your vet and the advice was to give it more time on the new diet. In my experience two weeks is too short of time frame to see any appreciable change if the coat problems are nutritional.
If you haven’t had the vet actually examine your dog you might want to do that to make sure what you are seeing is compatible with a nutritional cause.

[aimee]

Hi Donna,

From you post it isn’t clear to me if you your boy is on K/d because he his kidney are not working well ( kidney insufficiency?failure) or that he was placed on KD to control stone formation or both?? Does he currently have stones in his kidneys? Was the surgery to remove stones that were in the bladder and urethra or were they really in the kidneys ?
What was the stone composition?

How much K/D is he currently fed compared to the label recommendations? K/D should not be used for weight loss.
If he needs a diet for weight loss and kidney insufficiency and stone formation that looks to be a tricky combination and appears that a home cooked diet tailored to his specific problems and formulated by a veterinary nutritionist would be the best plan.

I agree with anon that you need to work through your veterinarian or seek another veterinary opinion. Personally i wouldn’t be keen to return to a grain free diet until more is understood about diet related cardiomyopathy.

[aimee]

Ashley,

What percentage of calories are currently being fed as fat? How many grams of fat are being fed a day?I think you have to know what your baseline is to know how to modify the diet.

I would approach this by getting a baseline fasted lipid profile, decreasing the fat grams fed/ day by whatever percentage your vet recommends and then retesting a fasted lipid profile in the time frame your vet recommends.

[aimee]

Hi Katherine W,

I don’t think there is a straightforward answer, which is why you can find various advice on the matter. Omega 3’s have been shown to be beneficial in pancreatitis in other species. Not sure that there is research done in dogs. I think having Omega 3 as part of a low fat diet can potentially be beneficial.

Is supplementation is safe for your dog? I think that depends on the total fat content of the diet, how much fat is added as an Omega 3 source (this will vary depending on the concentration of the supplement). and how fat tolerant/intolerant the patient is

Adding together all sources of fat how many grams of fat/day is your dog consuming? What percentage of calories is coming from fat? What is the current EPA/DHA intake?

It sounds like your vet wants to trim down the fat content in your dog’s overall diet. It may be that moving to a lower fat food an appropriate supplement could be used, and still be lowering the fat content overall.

These are all things that could be discussed with your vet. (A bit of nutritional number crunching will be needed here) It could be that your vet has taken all this into consideration and for your dog thinks the risk outweighs the benefit.

[aimee]

Hi AlexT11,

Gelatin melting temps do vary a bit but all well below the temp of boiling water. The addition of starch to gelatin does raise the melting temp too. but again not too different from baseline on the combinations I found referenced. There is actually papers written on gelatin/starch films properties. All very complicated and fascinating.

Papers also written on Gummy candies that made of gelatin and starches along with sugars.

The Ole Ray packaging I have states “product of China” Buy a pack and check them out. i found them very different from the other chews I’ve looked at.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 6 months ago by aimee.

[aimee]

Hi AlexT11,

I hadn’t seen the Sam’s club rawhide free rolls before. They have the same ingredient line up and Guaranteed Analysis as Dentley’s rawhide free retriever rolls. The Dentley’s product ,like the Sam’s club product, is labeled as being a product of Mexico. Maybe they are the same????

The Dentley’s product looks like a roll but after soaking I can’t unroll it. I suspect it is an injection molded product made to look like a roll. It eventually breaks down in boiling water whereas the Ole Roy product dissolves quite quickly. I wonder if it could be that the Ole Roy product has a higher gelatin content than the Dentley’s( min 60% protein in the Ole Roy vs min 20% in the Dentley’s ) Gelatin melts at about 95 degrees.

[aimee]

Hi Bobby dog,
Good post!

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

As I said before “Boarded Veterinary Nutritionists are all pretty united on the mantra that you can not judge the quality of a diet by looking at an ingredient list. ” including those educated in “holistic” medicine. From Dr. Susan Wynn DVM, CVA, CVCH, AHG, DACVN”… you can not judge a pet food by the ingredient listing-period”

I noted the none of the reviewer in the post are veterinary nutritionists, instead they as a group seem to hold a lot of tenants that are not based in science.

[aimee]

Hi Haleycookie,
It appears you do not understand what a kickback is.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

Personally, I think if you asked those questions of a Boarded Veterinary Nutritionist you’d get a puzzled look back in return.

The questions reflect your understanding of diet selection/nutriiion which is very very different from how a boarded veterinary nutritionist or even a regular DVM would likely approach the subject.

It is meaningless to ask what percentage of the diet should each vitamin or mineral be when you didn’t define the energy basis.
Boarded Veterinary Nutritionists are all pretty united on the mantra that you can not judge the quality of a diet by looking at an ingredient list. So yes I’d say that the boarded veterinary nutritionist hypothetically sitting across the table from you would inform you that are indeed “way off” as you put it.

Finally, veterinarians do not receive any type of “kickback” on each bag they sell.

[aimee]

Hi Jill,

I just want to clarify that the dog that passed was in the same room with the owner and was lying right next to the owner at her feet and was being watched. Th owner acted immediately.

When I read things like “supervise” I wonder what does that mean? For example, it is oft recommended to supervise all child and dog interactions. yet many bites occur while the child and dog are being “supervised”. This is because the person supervising hasn’t been educated on what types of interactions are inappropriate or on recognizing canine signaling that indicates the dog is uncomfortable.

There are plenty of child /dog videos posted by well meaning individuals in which the child is clearly in danger but the person filming doesn’t see it. Similarly, I’ve seen plenty of videos of dogs chewing on chews and the person filming their dog doesn’t “see” the danger present.

For me, my rules are that my dog can neither get the entire length or width of the product into the mouth if it is made of a material that is not expected to easily fracture into many small consumable pieces. The dog owner team must have an impeccable “drop” cue in the “toolbox” so that recovering a chew is not stressful to the dog or owner.

[aimee]

Hi Connie,
Fromm large breed adult is marketed as an adult food but it is formulated for growth meaning the company could market it it as a puppy food or all life stages food but chose not to. Nutritionally though it is the same as puppy food.

If however the nutritional adequacy statement said the food was only formulated for maintenance I would not consider it appropriate for growth.

I prefer during growth to use foods from a company that has fed the food to a large/giant breed throughout the entire growth period and monitored the dogs development.

[aimee]

Hi Nadia,

The only accurate test for food reactions including allergies is with a food trial. Blood tests, saliva tests, hair tests etc are not helpful as your dog can test positive for food they are not reacting to and negative for the food that is causing the problem.

[aimee]

Hi Adrianne,

If food is being poorly digested for any reason the resulting feces can be more attractive to the dog.

When I fed my dog THK the food came out pretty much looking the same way it went in unless I cooked the diet.
At that time I had asked THK if they did digestion trials. They had not and they reported it is “normal” to have 4-5 stools a day on their foods. I considered that excessive and discontinued feeding THK.

[aimee]

Hi joanne l,

You bring up a very good point. Most cases of DCM have not been reported to the FDA. If DCM follows other types of adverse event reporting the percentage of cases reported is really quite low. In reality the 560 cases that have been reported are likely the tip of the iceberg. Please encourage your neighbor and mothers friend to take the time to report

[aimee]

Hi joanne,

As I recall when I talked to Purina years ago I think they said it is 3-5 years from concept to sales of a product. Similar for Hill so if products are coming out they were in the works for some time.

Hill’s Ideal balance line was discontinued and their Bioactive line launched. Brands and products come and go.

The DCM faebook group is full of heartbreaking DCM cases… tissue needed

[aimee]

Thanks!

[aimee]

Hi pugmomsandy,

Thanks for posting this. The new marketing tagline gave me a giggle. Wonder if other companies will pick it up
Do you have any idea when this labeling was introduced?

[aimee]

haleycookie,

I read through Champion’s response and in my opinion it is very reminiscent of and just as unbiased as the response of the tobacco industry when the first link was made between smoking and cancer. : )

In my opinion, very cleverly written to model after the response of the tobacco industry, “our science found no concerns” but as I read it I find that what they are reporting is very vague and appears to be poorly done.

For example what is “long-term feeding trials with enhanced DCM protocols” In regards to length was it 2 days, 2 weeks, a month, 2 months?? Considering it isn’t yet know how long is may take for dietary DCM to become apparent how are they confident that their trial would have been long enough to find any abnormalities.

What are “enhanced DCM protocols”. The only takeaway I got from their response is that perhaps they measured taurine. Considering most cases have normal taurine levels it seems silly to me to sound an “all clear” based on that test.

Champion likes to point out that dietary DCM appears to be uncommon. The true incidence isn’t known. But I think it is fair to say that not every dog/cat consuming a problematic diet becomes ill. In the Melamine crisis huge numbers of dogs and cats that were exposed didn’t become ill. Same with the association between renal disease and chicken jerky or between grapes/raisins and renal disease. So for illustration sake let’s say that for problem “X ” 1 in a thousand becomes ill. Is testing several dogs relevant? I would say it is not. And Champion hasn’t said what number of dogs participated in their trials. Hmmm

Let’s look at this statement…
“In the recipes Champion makes, we emphasize fresh and raw meat with total animal-derived ingredients ranging from 60 to 85 percent of the finished product. Legumes are not a significant feature in Champion’s recipes, and never have been.”

Take the finished product Acana Free Run Poultry chosen at random GA is 29% protein 17% fat and 12 % moisture and I’ll toss in 3 % ash. 100-29-17-12-3= 39% min plant based nutrient.

Looking at the ingredient list and removing the animal based ingredients , and discarding the ingredients after salt leaves us with whole green peas, whole red lentils, whole pinto beans, , chickpeas, whole green lentils, whole yellow peas, lentil fiber,

Those ingredients, except for the fiber, are in addition to being sources of carbohydrate are also sources of protein From USDA nutrient database an average of 1 part protein for every 3 parts carb. So of that 29 % protein 10 grams may be from the legumes.

Total plant content 39 % + 10% and you get 49% plant based ingredients which I consider a “significant feature”
Total animal based 19% + 17% fat for a total of 36%

In that example I made assumptions as I am using the GA which is just min values therefore the results are not completely accurate but it is very different from the claim of 60-85% animal derived content in the finished product.
Personally, the only thing I can figure that may be 85% animal content finished product would be some of the treats.

Several years ago I asked Champion if they did AAFCO feeding trials. They answered affirmatively. On further inquiry as I recall I asked how long they were for and they replied a few weeks. Hmm more questions and they report they test for palatability, digestibility and stool quality. Most would assume by an AAFCO feeding trial they were talking about a trial for nutritional adequacy but that is not the response I got.

I see this response from Champion as nothing more than a marketing piece . I urge caution whenever looking at any statements made by any food manufacturer in regards to their product.

Perhaps if Champion really wanted to contribute to the knowledge base they should hire veterinary cardiologists and hold free echo screening for DCM for dogs who have eaten their food as their primary source of nutrition. With all the frequent buyer programs it shouldn’t be too hard for retailers to track Champion’s customers.

[aimee]

Hi joanne l

Keep in mind that DCM can be a silent killer. In other words a dog ‘s heart may sound normal on a dog’s annual exam but the dog has DCM. Echo is the only way to assess function.

[aimee]

Hi joanne,

If I’m understanding you, your concern with oat groats is in regard to the fiber content and feel that oatmeal is a better option. However, from the USDA nutrient data base the total dietary fiber of oat groats is the same as oatmeal ~ 10 grams /100 grams. Unlike rice or wheat oats are rarely refined. Oat meal is simply flattened oat groats… same nutrient profile : )

The nutritionist you spoke with seems to be under the impression that the bran is removed when making oatmeal. However I haven’t found this to be the case .
“Unique among the most widely-eaten grains, oats almost never have their bran and germ removed in processing.”
https://wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/easy-ways-enjoy-whole-grains/grain-month-calendar/oats-%E2%80%93-january-grain-month

From a nutrient standpoint it appears that oatmeal and oat groats are interchangeable . Perhaps by “easier to digest” ,”harder to digest” you are referring to rate of digestion. The smaller the particle size the faster the digestion.

What fiber level and type works best for each individual is unique to that individual. In general higher fiber levels are recommended for colitis.

[aimee]

Hi joanne l

It seems to me oat groats is just another word for whole grain oats so yes the bran, germ and endosperm are included. From the USDA nutrient database it appears that the total dietary fiber for oat groats is similar to other whole grains.

Human nutritionists seem to agree that whole grains are more healthful than their refined counterparts. so it surprised me that the nutritionist you talked to seems to be advising against them.

In regards to digestibility I found one comparative study done in dogs and oat groats had high digestibility. on par with other grains commonly used in dog foods. Not sure what exactly you mean by “hard to digest”, I’m guess you mean low total digestibility. Perhaps you can post a link to the study that reported that.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9fdb/1bb6f38f99956f823489c7980024aebfd216.pdf

from the abstract:

“Most dry dog foods are based on cereals, but very little published information and few comparative studies are available on the nutritive value of various cereals in dogs. To determine the apparent nutrient digestibilities and feed values of five different autoclave-processed and ground cereals: oat groats, barley, wheat, corn and rice, a digestibility trial was carried out on twelve adult huskies ac-cording to a 6 × 4 cyclic changeover design. Total tract organic matter (OM), crude carbohydrate and gross energy (GE) digestibilities were higher in rice than in all the other cereals. Apparent crude protein (CP) and acid hydrolyzed fat digestibilities of rice (80% and 94%, respectively) were as good as for oat groats (81% and 93%). However, oat groats had higher OM, CP and GE digestibilities than barley, wheat and corn. The amount of digestible crude protein (118 g kg-1 DM) was higher in oat groats than in the other cereals. Digestible energy contents (MJ kg-1 DM) of oat groats, rice, corn,wheat and barley were 17.1, 16.0, 15.7, 15.6 and 15.5, respectively. The quantity of excreted wet faeces increased and the percentage of dry matter (DM) in faeces decreased when oat groats, barley,wheat or corn were supplemented to the basal diet, in contrast to rice, which had the opposite effecton wet faeces excretion. Oat groats are good substitutes for rice or other cereals in dry dog foods.”

[aimee]

Wow! Here are my thoughts regarding Peter Dobias’s recommendations…

Heartworm DNA testing. Dobias wrote “This test has virtually no false negatives, which is great news for your dog.”

PCR tests in general are very sensitive and so that statement may be technically true. But the manner in which he is applying the test I think false negatives will be the norm. The test is based on DNA which is in a cell’s nucleus. Heartworm larva migrate in the sub Q tissue. How is it that larva cells can get from the sub Q into the circulatory system? They are too big to cross vessel walls. The larva do leave the sub Q and enter the circulatory system and at that point I’d expect they can be detected. However the dog is now infected with young adult heartworms. The time frame to prevent infection has passed.

Preventatives are effective against young larva, the older the migrating larva are the less effective the kill rate. Even if this test can pickup migrating larva, by only testing every 4months, the infection cold be four months old and difficult to arrest at that point.

His temp data doesn’t look accurate. Heartworm development in the mosquito progresses with warmer temps. Units referred to as heartworm development units. need to accumulate. Sustained high temps are not required.

The reason for extending prevention beyond exposure dates is that it is documented that one dose of preventatives doesn’t always prevent infection. In one study one does didn’t prevent infection and three doses a month apart from each other did.

In my opinion the alternative program as outlined by Peter Dobias is reckless at best.

[aimee]

Hi joanne,

I’ve fed Purina for for about 20 years now and have never had insect infestation in any of the bags I’ve purchased over the years.

On the other hand it wouldn’t surprise me that you’ll get many hits if you search “Purina and worms or bugs” because of the large volume is sold. If there is a one in a million problem and 100 million units sold that makes for 100 problems vs a company with smaller distribution of 500,000 units will only experience the one in a million problem once every 2 years.

Insect activity is a post production problem often related to storage both at the distribution center and in the home.

The same reasoning applies to reports of illness. The greater the population using a product the more reports of illness which may or may not be related to the product will be reported.

[aimee]

Hi joanne,

I’ve fed Purina for for about 20 years now and have never had insect infestation in any of the bags I’ve purchased over the years.

On the other hand it wouldn’t surprise me that you’ll get many hits if you search “Purina and worms or bugs” because of the large volume is sold. If there is a one in a million problem and 100 million units sold that makes for 100 problems vs a company with smaller distribution of 500,000 units will only experience the one in a million problem once every 2 years.

Insect activity is a post production problem often related to storage both at the distribution center and in the home.

[aimee]

thank,
You are welcome !

[aimee]

Hello thank,

The information is taken from the guaranteed analysis. Carbohydrate is calculated based on 100% – (protein +lipid+ash+moisture+fiber)

Some assumptions are made as the guaranteed analysis reports minimums and maximums. Calling the company and getting actual levels is more accurate.

You can use this calculator https://secure.balanceit.com/tools/_gaconverter/

[aimee]

Hi joanne

When I read the Cooking light article like you I thought Yuck! But when I read the actual FDA report that the article is based on I came away with a whole different perspective.

Yes, there was plastic in the food traced back to incoming fresh frozen beef by products ( spleens lungs and gullets) Not sure why Cooking Light reported it was from broken equipment at that plant. The Company did change out their plastic to blue to distinguish it from the white plastic that apparently was not uncommonly found in raw materials.
By doing so they would know for sure where to focus their efforts if additional plastic was found and be able to confidently go back to the supplier and say it was from them.

Yes they had roaches. The 99 instances of pest activity were over 7 plus months not 72 days and in most cases were for a single roach. The company had employees self report if they saw any pest activity. Frankly, I think it was a wise guy employee that wrote “millions of roaches” The most the pest control company reported finding was a one time report of 250. The company had ongoing pest control and when the problem wasn’t eradicated hired an entomologist. So yes roaches were found and the company was addressing it.

I’d encourage anyone to read the original report and make their decisions based on the original report. https://truthaboutpetfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/MarsEIR2017.pdf

[aimee]

Hi Christine V,

I’ve been a member for month and have a very different experience. What I see is a very dedicated group of people who are committed to fact based material. On that basis, it wouldn’t surprise me if posts stating my dog has DCM from brand X are removed unless the poster providers verification of DCM .

I have read posts stating ‘My dog has DCM” in which the poster then describes a process unlike DCM,so iI think honest mistakes can be made. but I’m also open to the idea that some people may post inaccurate information on purpose. If the clerk from the boutique pet store I spoke to joined and posted that Purina is causing DCM I think the post should be pulled and she should be banned from further posting.

It wouldn’t surprise me if such people, once banned, would then move on to other sights and vent.

Eye’s wide open… no blinders on , critical thinking skills and healthy skepticism intake. I think the best we can do when feeding commercial foods is to feed foods with ingredients that are well tested and understood and from companies that have a long track record of having a vested interest in animal health.

[aimee]

Christine V
Your take on on the Facebook DCM groups etc is about as plausible as the nonsense that the boutique pet store employee told me the other night. She said Purina is sending people out to identify pet owners whose dogs are eating “good foods” like they sell. Purina is then giving those dogs DCM to make it look like DCM is associated with “good foods” I said ‘You mean to tell me that Purina is responsible for killing hundreds of dogs by giving them DCM?” and she said “Yes! ”

Wow !! I was shocked! Unbelievable !! The stories people come up with never cease to amaze me.

[aimee]

Denis S,

Any chance that your dog was diagnosed as having perianal fustula? My friends shepherd had this many many years ago and at that time it had just been identified that adverse food reaction could be a component of the problem. Her dog was placed on a vet therapeutic diet along with medication and eventually was maintained on diet alone.

Here is some information on that condition https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20536692
https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=19239&id=4952922

Only the vet therapeutic diets are specifically made for treating adverse food reactions as OTC foods often have proteins in them that are not on the ingredient list. Home cooking is a alternative using items your dog hasn’t eaten in the past. Ask your vet for advice.

[aimee]

Hi Bobby dog,
I haven’t seen those before, but have found a number of chews marketed as Rawhide free. Indeed labeling products as rawhide free is a popular marketing tagline!

I found some labeled “Not Rawhide” that look just like untanned cattle skin. When I asked the company what tissue the chew was sourced from they said it is sourced from skin but it isn’t rawhide because it is skin from the head of the cow whereas hide comes from the body of the cow. Apparently you can have your cake and eat it too!

[aimee]

Hi Linda,

I don’t think there are any perfect chews. There is risk in everything and what may be suitable for one dog isn’t for another.

That said my preferred chew items are food stuffed kongs. For my own dogs I’m not a fan of vegetable chews like carrots or dehydrated potato. Of the available animal based options I choose flat rawhide “chips” larger then the dog’s mouth and trade them out when the dog can get it into the mouth.

I shy away from bone shaped rolls etc as they can break teeth.

I understand that many are uncomfortable with rawhide. Certainly if large pieces are attempted to be swallowed it can result in obstruction. In regards to all the bad press regarding chemical containment, after learning that the same “lime splits” used to make rawhide are used in human food production I’m comfortable with the processing agents used in production and the steps taken to remove them.

As with dog food companies ,there are certain rawhide manufactures with whom I’m comfortable and others that I’m not.

[aimee]

Hi Lisa,

Thanks for contributing. Curious, I microwaved rawhide and it shrunk considerably and curled. I microwaved a different brand rawhide and saw no change. Maybe it has something to do with the amount of moisture in the product or different processing. I can’t say I noted much of a smell in either product.

[aimee]

Anon,
Thanks for posting this. I believe there was a similar problem in the past as well

[aimee]

Hi Lisa,

I’m a fan of stuffed Kongs. I had ten of them when raising my last dog! She pretty much ate 50-75 % of her daily food from them. When tired she would become crazy mouthy a Kong and her crate and she would soon fall asleep : ) At first made the puzzle easy.. didn’t freeze them but as she became skilled in emptying they were frozen.

[aimee]

Hi Ann H,

Please keep in mind that there is no accurate way to test for food allergies. While tests exist, dogs will test positive to foods they have no allergic reactions to and can test negative to the foods that they react to.

For information on food allergies and how to diagnose and treat them go to veterinarypartner(dot) com and search on food allergy

The only way to diagnose food allergy is through an elimination food trial. A food specifically made for this purpose can be acquired through your veterinarian. Home cooking is also an option.

Limited ingredient diets often contain protein sources not listed in the ingredients and are not suitable to use as a test diet.
Best of Luck!

[aimee]

Hi Merrick W,

AFFCO definitions really do not tell you much about the ingredient except from which it is sourced. Beef could mean a high content of muscle tissue or it could be very little muscle and a lot of skin and fat.

Nor does the ingredient list give you information about the quality of the ingredient or if the food was formulated or processed appropriately.

So to play devils advocate you wrote “But the most offensive to me is the Poultry By-Product Meal. ANYTHING from the chicken or turkey that is not used to make what is sold commercially (e.g., leg, thigh, breast pieces, skin) can be used in by-product meal, including feathers claws, and beaks, all ground down, and I don’t even want to take a chance with giving my dog such unknown and questionable ingredients. ”

I’m going to apply the same type of reasoning to Alaskan Pollack Meal :But the most offensive to me is the Alaskan Pollack Meal. ANYTHING from the fish that is not used to make what is sold commercially ( fillets) can be used in Pollack meal, including scales, fins, and tails, all ground down, and I don’t even want to take a chance with giving my dog such unknown and questionable ingredients. In fact there doesn’t have to be any actual muscle tissue in Pollack Meal. It could just be a bunch of ground fish cuttings.

I look at and interview the company when making dog food feeding decisions. If there is a particular ingredient I want to avoid I will look at the list but other than that I haven’t found it all that helpful.

[aimee]

Ok Now I see it next to reply once I posted… disappears after a time frame has passed.

[aimee]

Hi anon101,

Glad Pro Plan is working out for you. It can be a bit unnerving to try something so different from what you’ve previously fed. My Labs have always done well on that brand. My girl was in the ribbons every time I showed her.

I’ve never seen an edit option button on the forum side only “report abuse” where is it?

[aimee]

Hi anon,

I’ve had posts get hung up.. they appear but just delayed I always figured it was because of the links. I’ve never edited a post.. never found the way to do that.

See if this works, I
https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/44951774/Effects_of_dietary_carbohydrate_fat_and_20160421-16818-13tz74c.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1544120694&Signature=%2FQZ0GlN9RurtlVvv3tFI%2BGVsUWA%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DEffects_of_Dietary_Carbohydrate_Fat_and.pdf

[aimee]

Hi jill b,
Spycar makes some bold statements without any references. Here is what the science says

Dogs eating 62% carb calories had body fat levels of 21+/-2.1% (25% protein calories, 13% calories from fat and 62% calories from carbohydrate) The dogs eating 0-1% carb had 27.1 +/-1.8% body fat ( 24% protein 76% fat calories and 0 carb calories), 27.5 +/-2.7% body fat f ( 48%protein calories, 52% fat calories and 0 carb calories) and 29.5 +/-1.6% body fat (44% protein calories, 55% fat calories and 0 % carb calories)

replace the word dot with a . after the word amazonnaws

https://s3.amazonawsdotcom/academia.edu.documents/44951774/Effects_of_dietary_carbohydrate_fat_and_20160421-16818-13tz74c.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1544112009&Signature=80mvsXfKSU13Jg8FGSk7O%2B6%2B2sk%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DEffects_of_Dietary_Carbohydrate_Fat_and.pdf

All studies have limitations but from this you can see that dogs eating a high carb diet had less body fat than those eating very low to no carb diet calling into question Spy Cars fears that feeding your dog carbohydrate would result in obesity. All dogs are individuals and what macronutrient profile they do best on may be inherent to that individual. For my Labs feeding the Pro Plan weight management formula worked best.
Hope you find what works for your dog!

[aimee]

Spy car,
Again with the grandstanding and no citations. You made the statement you should provide the citation. When something in published in a peer reviewed journal the reader isn’t told to use Google to find article to support what they are saying. You are the author of your statements and you need to provide the citations. Besides I need to know I’m reading what you are reading.

After the field trials go checkout all those obese crippled greyhounds eating a 42% energy from carb diet 😉

“These studies concluded that a dry food based diet, which contained 42% of the energy from carbohydrates, 33% from fat and 24% from protein, provided the best dietary
balance to optimise speed and performance over a standard 500 metre race distance. However, greyhounds on this diet were slightly heavier in body weight compared to greyhounds fed a diet containing higher protein and fat, with a lower content of carbohydrate. This difference in body weight was attributed to a greater muscle bulk in greyhounds fed on the medium protein diet.9”.

Interesting stuff!

replace the word dot with a (.)

http://www.greyhound-data dot com/dir/806/Feeding_a_Racing_Greyhound.pdf

[aimee]

Spy Car
And once again no references.. it seems you just make this stuff up as you go.

Funny how all those Labs that are “de tuned” and “crippled” from eating a carb laden diet keep winning National field trial championships. You probably should go to National field trial and “educate” all the handlers on how crippled and obese all their dogs are. I’m sure it will go over real well : )

Sometimes posts can get hung up if you had links in them.. At least that has happened to me and now when i want to post a link i will replace the (.) with the word dot and then they seem to go through.

[Author]

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