[Holly C]

Now that it’s almost fall, my family has been eating more meat (beef, chicken, etc.) and I’d like to utilize scraps in any way I can. By the way- I am using fully cooked meat. I don’t want to do any organs or raw meat, because it’s not easily accessible for me, or affordable. I was thinking of using the leftover chicken, stock, vegetables, and rice from our dinners to make some food. I have a food processor to make this. Does anyone want to share some ideas for ingredients and tips? What meats are good for canned food? Which vegetable provide the best vitamins? Should I add any vitamins or oils? Which foods should I avoid? I’m not feeding this alone, but instead on top of his food. Also, I heard somewhere that you should never can with rice, is that true?

[DogFoodie]

While I can’t say that this is the case with every food that contains synthetic vitamins and minerals, but those that do use them are far more likely than not to contain ingredients sourced from China. Taurine in particular, from what I’ve read.

If you truly want China free products, you might take a look at Farmina, Nature’s Logic, The Honest Kitchen or Primal (Primal sources Taurine from Japan).

[Sallynova]

Hi! Just want to tell you that proper nutrition should be your ambition. It’s dog food and it has to have all the minerals and vitamins they need because it’s the only way to be sure they stay healthy. Everyone in our neighborhood uses the same food now – it’s called Dogs For The Earth. It’s dehydrated so there is no processing and it’s Organic – every ingredient is organic and the whole list of ingredients is on their web site. They tell you why each ingredient is in the food – what is does for dogs and they are owned by a scientist who is an animal nutritionist. We had dogs around here with so many allergies and problems and my sisters’ yorkie was the worst picky eater but now she runs into the kitchen whenever she hears the bag! After you read on their web site you’ll understand! http://Www.dogsfortheearth.com I try to tell everyone about this food because it’s pure and natural and dogs love it. But more importantly I’ve seen first hand how that makes such a huge difference.

[Susan B]

Apologies in advance if I’m not doing this correctly – I’m new here! 🙂
Regarding Nature’s Recipe dry dog food: Was feeding grain free salmon, sweet potato formula. Realized the bag did not say “made in USA” and that prompted a call to the 800 number. This company uses “some” vitamins and minerals from China and other countries. They claim they are “unable to get them in sufficient quantities in the US.” This is a MAJOR concern for me given the amount of damage Chinese ingredients did to some of our pets.

Obviously, I will not continue feeding this food (although my dog likes it). I am curious to read others comments and opinions on this topic. I’m seriously disturbed by the lack of what I perceive to be “honesty” in this company not noting on their bags that some ingredients come from China. Not a legal issue, but a moral issue, IMHO.

Thank you and I’ll check back next week for any comments. (I won’t have computer access until then).

[Nancy C]

I speak with no authority however, have reviewed in detail and have come to the same conclusion. Have talked to Scott the owner and he is very informed and I think they are committed to making a superior food. I like the “no synthetic vitamins.” He does not commit to GMO and I asked him WHY. Answ was that there is no established definition of exactly what that is and how one can claim to be GMO (I am paraphrasing) and until there are set definitions of it he is not claiming it. However, they strive toward the best. I was going to use it in my rotation until I decided to try Raw. Should that not work NL will def be in my rotation.

[William S]

I have been very please with dry, grain free, Natures Logic. One reason I like it is that the company does not use any chemically synthesize Minerals or vitamins. What do you think?

[aimee]

Carpet chewing could be due to any number of things. Off the top of my head in that age bracket I’d consider investigative chewing, attention seeking behavior, separation distress, barrier frustration and medical/pica.

Details as to when it occurs what you do when it occurs what areas are being targeted can all give you clues. I wouldn’t necessarily equate carpet chewing with a vitamin deficiency.

I’ve seen Nu vet… wasn’t impressed. I think it is a multi- level marketing venture???. I’ve seen breeders not guarantee their pups unless you buy the vitamins using a code that credits them for the sale. Really rubs me the wrong way.

[Lilmonster]

Unfortunately, I don’t have the space or budget for a grinder right now, so I have to stick with buying pre-ground. Trying to figure out how to use bone-in grinds with Dr. Becker’s recipes because it’s so much more affordable than boneless grinds. I guess a more simplified version of my question would be, if I use MPC’s bone-in grinds for the meat staple, add Dr. Becker’s veggie mix and her vitamins & minerals supplements, would that be balanced?

[pugmomsandy]

This one is a very tiny capsule and usually on sale!

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-16-strain-probioticwith-fos-60-veg-caps

Probiotics are fairly widely available at box stores and pet boutiques. I just look for a product with at least 10 strains of organisms.

[Stewart]

Thank you everyone. I really need to look into cost and break it all down. Is it much of a savings making it myself? I’m not sure. Especially considering how much I spend on my own veggies, vitamins and eggs… I probably just need to be a better bargain hunter.

Also thank you for the name of that other premix…I have to take the time to look into it a little more but it does look like a less costly alternative.

[Lilmonster]

Hi all,

Lily has been on Dr. Becker’s boneless recipe for about a week now (slightly modified – I’m using the SSLL dinner mix in lieu of Dr. Becker’s vitamins and bone meal for now since I still had the SSLL) and she’s doing great. She has stopped scratching completely, her coat gets shinier by the day, and her stools are perfect. While I would love to keep her on this permanently since it’s working so well, it’s not affordable because I’m using antibiotic-free (I don’t really want to compromise on that) ground meats from the grocery store at the moment. I’ve been waiting for MPC’s next delivery date to my area, and it’s finally coming up soon.

So I’m about to place my first MPC order, but I have a question – if I get the bone-in grinds, can I substitute that one to one for the boneless ground meat in Dr. Becker’s recipes and just omit the bone meal addition? I was thinking it would be ok since the bone-in grinds are balanced, but then I noticed that for the same protein, the muscle meat:organ proportions for Dr. Becker’s bone-in recipes are different from that of her boneless recipes (about 1 lb more heart, liver, and gizzards in the boneless version, and less muscle meat). The reason for this is probably obvious to some of you so forgive me for my lack of knowledge, but if someone could let me know whether or not it would be ok to use the bone-in grinds in Dr. Becker’s boneless recipes I’d be super grateful.

Also – looking at the MPC grinds, if I get the Ground Chicken Supermix that has 1/3 additional hearts, liver, and gizzards, I would need to tweak the Dr. Becker’s recipes since that would be too much organ meat, right? Any advice on this?

And if I want to add green tripe to her Dr. Becker’s meals, how much should I be adding? Does the “you can change up to 20% of her diet without upsetting the balance” rule apply here? So, if she’s eating 1 lb of meat per day then I can add up to 3.2 oz of tripe per day? How often should I give her tripe?

Just when I think I’m getting a hang of this, I think of more questions and I start feeling confused again lol. As always, Lily and I thank you all in advance for your help!

[Akari_32]

Wellness CORE is my go-to grain free food. Here is some info on where they get their ingredients. It does appear they get some of their vitamins from China, but they haven’t had a recall that I know since splitting off from Diamond however many years ago. Over all, it’s my favorite brand.

http://www.dogfoodscoop.com/wellness-dog-food.html

[pugmomsandy]

I started out using “Real Foods for Healthy Dogs and Cats”. It has boneless recipes along with a veggie mash recipe and a vitamin recipe to balance everything out. There are also guidelines for omega-3 and other supplements. It’s actually easy once you do it for the first time. You initially have to buy some vitamins and grind these up and either use bone meal or dried egg shells if you like.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Nancy –

I haven’t tried K9 Natural but I have tried Darwin’s and Answer’s. A lot of posters here use Darwin’s and like it a lot. I think Darwin’s is a good product and I don’t have any issues with recommending it but it doesn’t meet the needs of what I look for when choosing a food for my dogs. I have large, highly active hounds and Darwin’s is just too low fat/low calorie. I love Answer’s, it’s probably my favorite brand of commercial raw. I love that there are no synthetic vitamins and minerals and the fat to protein ratio is perfect for my dogs. I’ve spoken in depth about the product with Jacqueline Hill, the Vice President of Operations and Product Development, and I was very impressed with the ingredient and manufacturing standards. I don’t feed pre-made raw too often because it’s so expensive, but when I do Answer’s is one of my go-to brands.

[Barbara O]

Nature’s Variety is wonderful food. Their dry is great…You might feed it and then add a little of the raw…My friend’s dog is medium size and she feeds one of the large packages of raw duck a month. She crumbles up just one of the patties and mixes it in with the kibble, adding water to make it a little soupy…If the dog has no egg problems, crack a raw egg and mix it into the feed…after all, it’s the perfect protein….How many cups a day does your dog eat? The only reason I like to feed the kibble is because my dog is so big that I want to make certain he gets the vitamins….and oils she needs…If you start building the immune system, many of the allergies will subside…Also..there’s yeast and there’s yeast…

I can see the problem with lamb, chicken, and bison, as they are what is called “hot” foods..and chicken is a food I even have to curtail for myself as it can cause inflammation in the body. I am surprised with beef…Duck is not a hot food…it is more neutral…maybe you could purchase a 5 lb bag of Nature’s Variety Instinct…their dry kibble…grain free…and feed it to him…buy a very small package of the frozen and add only one small patty, this is for a little boost in protein and for flavor….I sometimes give Roger several of the genet’s Primal, thawed and mixed into his kibble….It’s not expensive this way…oh…he still gets an egg each feeding…I think Primal and Nature’s V are about the same in cost…Nature’s Variety has had sample frozen packages…you might try them as they’re cheap….Toby’s 3 lb pkg of Primal is $16.00…and it lasts about a month. He gets 2 of the little rectangles a day, along with his precious shaved, preservative free turkey meat…people lunch meat…He will eat the beef but he loves the turkey…I like the Primal because it has veggies in it along with the supplements they need…And…if you found two foods he really likes, you could mix them together….What does he eat, 2 cups per meal?

[Barbara O]

I got several posts on the subject of Primal..I feed the Primal frozen…It is raw meat and veggies…with supplements added. It is manufactured in a facility that passes inspection for human food manufacture…The product is wonderful. I have a small spotted genet that eats it daily. I have mixed it in cat kibble and dog kibble…My friend has a dog that is very picky and it is a big dog…she mixes the duck with the kibble and the dog eats it like candy… I travel with it frozen. If you order it frozen…order as much as you can afford…that way the shipping will be cheaper. Check your local feed stores…those that carry dog and cat food…Also…check with any of your pet shops. I’ve found it in odd places when we travel. When they ship it, it is packed in dry ice…I order organic, grass fed beef for my husband and me and it is shipped from the midwest to hot Arizona in July…always comes completely frozen…ready for my freezer. By adding the Primal to the diet, you are assured of getting everything your animal needs…and you can add your own fruits and veggies to the food…I am assured the kibble, even if it is plant based, meets my Dane’s and genet’s needs…and they both are shiny and healthy. Have been raising and caring for animals longer than many of you have been alive…have a heavy background in animal nutrition in my undergraduate degree plus a few vet courses under my belt as well as human food chemistry courses…have tried to stay up with the research…Don’t believe everything your vet tells you…any vet that tells me how good Science Diet is, I run away from….Am fortunate I have a vet that has taken care of all my exotics and will call over the US getting answers to questions we might both have…have raised raccoon, ring tails, Fennec foxes…had some of the oldest in captivity…due to diligence in diet….both were spoiled pets….a animal fed a well balanced diet with added good oils and digestive enzymes, etc., is one who’s immune system is going to keep them healthy….Remember…corn, wheat and soy are not good for dogs…and raw bones to gnaw on are a blessing…cleans teeth and gives them B vitamins they need….They don’t have people stomachs…they have a straight tube so don’t give them too much variety at a time….They are a carnivore….not a cow…they have teeth for tearing…not for grinding…And….when the diet is high in protein and low in carbohydrate, the back yard is much easier to clean…

[Akari_32]

Ok, so I heard back from Purina on two flavors. I asked if they were going to look in to the others I had asked about as well. We’ll see what they say about that lol

Purina® Pro Plan® brand Dog Food – Select™ – Classic All Life Stages – Natural Chicken & Brown Rice Entrée – Plus Essential Vitamins and Minerals Dog Food – 3.80% carbohydrates as fed.
Purina® Pro Plan® brand Dog Food – Select™ – Classic For All Life Stages – Natural Beef & Brown Rice Entrée – Plus Essential Vitamins and Minerals – 3.10% carbohydrates as fed.

So either of these could be an option, I think. I asked for as fed, and then just now also asked for a dry matter basis. Just to see how it really stacks up.

[David T]

I am considering switching my 2 year old IW food (Blue Buffalo Large Breed) to one of the editors choices recommendations. I think Blue Buffalo has been giving my IW infrequent (1-2 times every couple of months) diarrhea. I have heard that Blue buffalo mixes there vitamins separately which can cause abnormal dose in the dry food. I like Blue because of the low calcium <1.5%. However, I have noticed that a lot of the editors choice brands have very high Calcium levels in their food. From what I have read, (on this site) it is recommended to stay below 1.5% Calcium. Are there any dog food brands that are high quality and tailored to large/giant breeds?

[losul]

Good Morning all!

Steve Brown replied to me this morning. He didn’t reply directly to my second message, and to be honest, i don’t remember exactly the content and what I asked on the second. Probably he went into depth enough on the first to satisfy the second.
—————

Comments: Hi Steve. There has been some questions about using your
dinner mix with muscle meat and with or without various organ
meats,(liver, kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, etc.) but especially
liver. I was under the impression that it was designed to be balanced
without addition of any organs, using just all muscle meat, no liver,
etc. But then a poster on DFA wrote that you had replied to his
question as the following; ——————– Is it okay to feed
muscle meat AND organs when using your dinner mix? Yes, its okay to
add muscle meat and some organ meat, but please dont add a lot of
liver. Keep the liver to less than 10% of the total meat.Adding up to
20% hearts is fine. Steve Brown ———————- Now it’s
unclear to me. SHOULD liver and other organs be added (on top of
muscle meat) to your SSLL mix in order to make a meal balanced? I
have been keeping your dinner mix on hand for those times when I
didn’t want to fully home prep, or if I just had plain meat handy, no
organs, and I always made sure NOT to use the mix with liver. So
now my question to you is, does the mix make a complete balanced
dinner without using organs meats? If so, then does using organ meats
with it pose any danger of oversupplementation of any
vitamins/minerals? Thank you in advance Luv your C.A.D. book.

—-

“Thanks for the really good questions and the clarifications.

YES. When blended according to directions, using just lean meats and, if just feeding beef, some proper oils, the dinner mix will meet AAFCO and NRC standards.

But adding small amounts of organs can help provide more depth to the nutrition. A little bit of liver can help, but no more than 10% of the meat, while heart, which, as you said, some consider to be a muscle meat, can be a much higher percentage. For poultry, the percentage heart can be a little higher, but for beef, I’d prefer less liver (5% range) and heart (10-15% range).

I am a little wary about adding other organs, such as the spleen, pancreas, and so forth. These organs can be very mineral rich, and I’ve not analyzed the dinner mix using these organs. My intuition tells me that if one can get these organs, the dinner mix will not be needed, except for perhaps calcium, phosphorus, iodine and manganese. As I think this through, if one can get these organs, a much simpler nutrient blend would be better.

I hope this helps.

Steve Brown

—————————————–

[losul]

Your welcome Cyndi.

Again, hyperthyroid maybe a more remote possibility, just thought it should mentioned as one.

Good, you aren’t using bone in grinds with the pre-mixes.

Looks like you are already using a good amount and assortment of organs which are already rich in certain vitamins/minerals, using those pre-mixes with them could make the meal as a whole overly rich in those same vitamins/minerals, not sure how much could become a problem. I think if you were to inquire to Steve Brown, he would likely be responsive to any questions.

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Read your post and sorry to hear about Bailey’s problems. This might be far-fetched, but I’m going to put it out there anyway.

After reading what you are feeding and reading others initial thoughts about thyroidism brought something to my mind. Hypothyroidism, is more often the case and Hyperthyroidism (high thyroid) is pretty rare in dogs. I’m not knowledgeable about thyroid problems, but after some research, I found indications that hyperthyroidism can cause hair loss just as can hypothyroidism.

Awhile back, Aimee (thnx Aimee) brought up a study in which certain dogs that were fed raw diets developed hyperthyroidism-high thyroxine levels (dietary hyperthyroidism). It turns out that these dogs were either eating tracheas and gullets or eating other meats that had the thyroid glands inadvertently ground up with them. Anyway that study much impacted me, and it would never have occurred to me if Aimee had not brought it up. At the time I was feeding MPC’s beef tripe supermix sometimes (it kind of sounds like you are using it, and as a staple?). Anyway, MPC’s ground beef tripe supermix has 10% trachea and gullet in it. I was concerned enough that I inquired to Paul about it a couple of times, wanting to make sure they were careful not to include the thyroid gland in the supermix. I wasn’t reassured that it didn’t have thyroid gland in it, so I quit feeding it. I still buy some things from MPC, but nothing with trachea or gullet, and not chicken products for other reasons. Just got a new order Friday, it even included goat gonads ( ouchee).

At first this study might sound like another raw feeding bash, but I see no real apparent conflicts of interest in it., it has happened with humans also, “Thyrotoxicosis factitia, as this is called in human medicine, has been reported in people eating hamburgers containing ground beef thyroid or eating excessive amount of sausages containing thyroid hormones (Malvinder and Sturge 2003, Conrey and other 2008, Hendriks and Looij 2010).”

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2011.01189.x/full

As I said, it might be far fetched, as it seems like other symptoms might be present if it were hyperthyroidism, maybe even weight loss and hyperactivity. But if you were to get her checked, and it would turn out to be HIGH thyroxine levels….. Also know that if it were dietary hyperthyroidism, it is easily reversable.

Cyndi, there is another possible problem I can see. Are you using the pre-mixes such as SSLL with a complete grind- meat, bones, organs and tripe? Those pre-mixes are really designed to use with muscle meats only- no bones or organs. Alot of folks would say that the MPC beef tripe supermix (if that’s what you are using) is (or should be if in right proportions) completely balanced by itself. I would say it should be very close to balanced, and shouldn’t ever have the full supplementation that you are adding with the pre-mixes, IMO. The pre-mixes add all the vitamins/minerals needed in absence of bone and organs. For just one thing an overabundance of calcium/phosphorus, if you are using bone in grinds with the pre-mixes. You aren’t using cod liver oil also, I hope? I think excessive calcium, especially along with excessive vitamin D, can be a cause of hypercalcemia. Parathyroid and thyroid glands attempt to regulate blood calcium/phosphorus.

Whatever it may be, I hope Bailey gets better very soon!

[Regina D]

Sue: So many good ideas. Thank you for taking the time to share. I am going to print your suggestions and try to incorporate them into Alf’s diet. I want to give the vet’s prescription a trial for a couple more weeks. So far no diarrhea, and gurgling only 1 day in the last 10. I have figured out he doesn’t like to eat in the morning. I was feeding him 3 times a day. I have cut back to twice. I will definitely try the toast & honey next time he has gurgling. I am also continuing Pepcid every AM. That is on recommendation from a friend. If he returns to being ill, I will try wetting dry kibble as you suggested. I am adding a small amount of boiled chicken and rice to his canned Iams. He loves chicken and rice. I may try adding that to dry kibble. I don’t mind cooking for him, but think I should be adding vitamins and minerals if I feed homemade and I’m not sure how to do that.

[Lilmonster]

Never mind about my first and second questions everyone, they’ve been resolved!

FYI to any other newbies out there feeling lost or thinking about buying one of the recommended raw books, Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs & Cats just arrived in the mail today, and taking a quick flip through it I already feel so relieved. I was on the fence about buying it because I had already read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and still felt confused, so I was worried that getting another book with more information would just add to the overwhelmingness. Fortunately, it’s really well organized and gives menu plans that are easy to follow, as well as detailed information about essential and optimal vitamins and minerals. While Steve Brown’s book is also very informative, it wasn’t quite as straightforward, at least to me.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lilmonster –

Raw meaty bones have a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio, it’s just really high. You can certainly try feeding boneless meat with the See Spot Liver Longer Dinner Mix in the morning and raw meaty bones in the evening – as long as your dog doesn’t get constipated it should be fine. You can also feed a little boneless meat along with the raw meaty bones or alternate between meals of raw meaty bones and something like tripe to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio. I know my girls get constipated if they eat an entire meal of raw meaty bones so I usually throw in a handful of hearts or gizzards. Also, if you’re only feeding the dinner mix for one meal a day and feeding raw meaty bones for the other, I’d highly recommend using the guidelines for puppies (4 tbs. per pound of meat versus 2 tbs.) to ensure that your dog is getting all the nutrients he needs.

I use the Twinlab Daily One with iron. The AAFCO minimum for iron is 80 mg/kg and the maximum is 3,000 mg/kg. So with 10 mg. per capsule, the Twinlab Daily One with Iron poses no risk of overdosing the dog on iron and it provides extra insurance in the event that a meal is too low in iron (which is a distinct possibility if the dog isn’t getting much red meat and/or organ meat). There is little to no risk of overdosing on vitamins and minerals from whole food sources, especially fruits and vegetables. The amount of calcium in the Twinlab Daily One isn’t high enough to affect anything.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Corinne M]

Oh – one more thing: you said above that some of the foods you found so far looked promising but you were concerned maybe still too high in fat. I remembered something when I read that…somewhere online years ago I found an article written by Mary Straus that I have kept in my files. It talked about how to calculate “low fat” vs. “very low fat”, etc. and also explains that dogs need *some* fat in order to digest fat-soluble vitamins. I was able to locate the original article again online ( it’s from 2008) and here’s a link to it…it’s a good article. http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/11_12/features/Healthy-Low-Fat-Dog-Foods_16088-1.html

[Lilmonster]

Hi everyone!

Another lurker here eager and (almost) ready to make the switch to raw. Like other newbies, I have so much respect for everyone here for not only committing so much time and effort to their fur babies, but also taking the time to answer endless, potentially stupid questions from nervous dog moms like me! I would never even have known about raw diets, let alone been able to work up the nerve to take the plunge if it weren’t for this forum, so thanks to all of you!

Some background info: My fiancé and I just adopted our little one, Lily, two months ago from a rescue. She’s 41 lbs and the vet estimates her age at around 1, much younger than the rescue thought – her teeth were pretty yellow when we first got her but presumably because she wasn’t given anything to chew on to clean plaque, so they thought she was 2 yrs 8 months (!), which leads me to think she sadly may have been malnourished as a puppy since they were feeding her as an adult. As soon as we gave her bones and chew toys her teeth became pearly white. Anyway, we switched her to Fromm’s Surf and Turf kibble when we got her, but we noticed she started itching more and more. Took her to the vet to ask about the itchiness as well as a suspected UTI, but the diagnosis for the itching was understandably vague. We’re not sure if it’s a food allergy or environmental – she doesn’t have fleas, and we’re pretty sure it’s not a yeast issue. She doesn’t smell yeasty at all and I think the vet would have picked up on that. So after a recent bout of diarrhea due to too many high fat treats after a training session, I figured it would be a good time to begin the transition to raw after her system cleared up. I fasted her for a meal then fed her a mixture of white rice and pumpkin for two meals, which brought her poos back to normal, then began feeding her a 50-50 mix of ground turkey and pumpkin with the See Spot Live Longer mix added in. The vet is holistic and also trained in Chinese medicine, and she suggested that I switch to beef instead of turkey since chicken and turkey is considered “hot” and could be contributing to the itchiness, so yesterday I made the switch to ground beef and her poo was still fine this morning. But then I remembered reading somewhere (I think on preymodelraw) that it’s not recommended to start with beef, but I think for the time being I’ll stick with it just to avoid changing her diet too many times (unless anyone here would strongly advise against starting with beef?). At the moment, her daily food (divided into two meals) is 1 lb 90% lean ground beef + 2 tbsp SSLL + 1/2 tsp hempseed oil + 1 tsp coconut oil (just started adding it) + 1 human probiotic. She is also currently on a one week course of antibiotics for the urinary problem.

I have Steve Brown’s Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet, ordered the Dr. Becker’s book, and have read through many of the threads on this forum but like other newbies I’m getting lost in all the information and feeling as overwhelmed as Cyndi was in the thread where she first started, lol. I’m thinking of sticking to the ground boneless meat with the See Spot Live Longer mix for a bit while I figure out all the supplements that are needed and place my meat orders. A few questions that I’d really appreciate if someone could help out with:

– I know you can’t add the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix to bone-in meats, but am I also correct in assuming that if I begin adding RMBs in the PM and continue to feed boneless ground meat + See Spot Live Longer mix in the AM that it would be too much calcium? Ideally I’d like to continue using the SSLL simply because it’s the easiest way for me to not have to worry that her nutrition is unbalanced while I’m still learning to balance her meals myself. I did see the most recent topic mentioning CarnivoreRaw but that’s a bit out of my budget. Hound Dog Mom, do you use the Twinlab Daily One with or without iron? Also, I noticed the Twinlab does have calcium in it, does that not matter because the amount is so low? If I choose to go the multivitamin route, can I then add other things like fruits and veggies and such without worrying about overloading on a specific vitamin/mineral or will I have to be careful with what I add?

– This may be a bit much to ask, but if one of the veterans has the time to respond I would be so grateful. Could someone make a list of the essential vitamins/minerals (or alternatively, foods that will provide those vitamins and minerals) that MUST be added to a diet that consists of boneless meat in the AM and RMBs in the PM, and the approximate amounts? This is the part I’m feeling especially in over my head with. Vitamin D, vitamin E, fish oil, manganese, so many different things I’m seeing that they need, it’s hard to not feel kind of scared to do it all from scratch, which is my eventual goal. I think I’m having a hard time figuring out what is absolutely necessary vs. optional but ideal.

– So from what I’ve read so far it seems to be a good idea to start her on chicken backs and quarters, then begin alternating boneless meat every other meal. How many meals should I feed the backs and quarters before I begin incorporating boneless meals? Also, should I already be giving her supplements during this time, or should I wait until she adjusts then begin adding supplements. As for stuff like organ meats, heart, and green tripe, how long should I wait before beginning to incorporate those? I promise I have read the other threads, but I’ve seen a few different recommendations on timelines so I thought I’d pose the question again just so I can be clear about it.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time to answer my questions!

[losul]

Lisa, I’ve been thinking about Chewy. Hopefully you have started to be able to keep badly needed nutrition in him now?

Some questions about his umbilical hernia, large or small? Has it gotten larger over the last several months? Is it painful to the touch for Chewy? I’m wondering if for some reason, perhaps financial, you had delayed the procedure, because in general a vet would do it by 5 or 6 months if they were pushing the time frame out to allow for spaying/neutering at the same time, otherwise probably earlier, and especially if it was causing problems or growing in size. From what I can determine Chewy is now about 9 months old. With a very small hernia, it might be only a bit of fat that pokes through the hole in the abdominal wall. With a larger hole, a loop of the intestine might drop into the sac and cause restriction which could definitely make Chewy vomit. Worse, a more severe restriction could even strangulate the intestine with much more dire consequences. Occaisonally the hole may even begin to close on it’s own by about 6 months. If the intestines are outside of the abdominal musculature structure and it begins closing……

This would be a large umbilical hernia, and no doubt the intestines have dropped into the sac. This one might be large enough not to substantially restrict or strangulate the intestines, depending on the actual size of the hole. It’s still quite dangerous.

http://www.faqs.org/photos/hernia-2773.jpg

“The symptoms associated with a hernia, like the one pictured in Figure 1 and 2 may initially relate to the inability of food to pass through this constricted section of intestine. Muscles within the wall of the intestine are responsible for moving food and water through the organ. Waves of contractions called peristalsis propel the contents along the length of the intestine. When an obstruction is encountered, like the one described, the peristaltic waves reverse direction and move the food backward through the entire digestive tract. This results in food and water being vomited.”

http://www.americananimalcare.com/pethealth/hernia_surgery_dogs_cats_umbilical_diaphragmatic_irguinal.html

I don’t know what is causing Chewy’s vomiting, but it’s really serious stuff to be vomiting everyday for many months, and a pup at that. You really must work on getting to the cause and very soon.

BTW, if Chewy’s case even has anything to do with acid production, low acid production can cause the same symptoms as too much acid production. I’d think thrice about self medicating with acid inhibitory drugs, especially at inspecific dosages, and remember he’s ONLY an 8 to 9 lb malnourished pup. 1/2 or 1/3 of an adult human dose???? Stomach acid is even more important to the dog, a carnivore. Acid is needed for proper digestion, especially protein digestion, acid is needed for the stomach to empty correctly, and failure to do so results in GERD. Stomach acid is a defense against bacterial infections and fungal infections, certain vitamins and minerals also require acid to be absorbed such as calcium, magnesium, zinc, copper, iron, selenium, B-12, etc. Improper digestion of foods can lead to to large of particles getting into the lower digestive tract and causing allergies, diarrhea, pathogenic bacterial fermentation, etc. Acid stimulates pepsin to be released into the stomach for digestion, and for pancreatic enzymes and bile to be released into the small intestine to further digest carbs, fats and proteins. I could keep going on and on. Proper overall health begins with proper acid production. Improperly diagnosing, and prohibiting or shutting down acid production with zantac, prilosec, etc. could be the start of a vicious circle and downward spiral of, helicobacter overgrowth/ infections leading to ulcers, other pathogenic infections, colitis, gastroenteritis, IBD, pancreatitis, allergies, diabetes, malnourishment, inability to digest all but the simplest of foods (hydrolyzed), dependence on inhibitors, evermore drugs to staunch the symptoms (like metronidazole and steroids) and mask the root cause, and ever declining health. Be very careful….. and best wishes Lisa.

I wonder why acid inhibitors are some of Pharma, Inc’s. biggest blockbusters of all time?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by losul.

[Corinne M]

Hi Jennifer,
I completely feel for you – it can be overwhelming trying to digest all the information out there when you just want to make your pup feel better! I had a Golden Retriever who had a bout of pancreatitis, and I learned a lot in the process – maybe some of it can help you.
First I had some concerns about Milo reading your post – and I want to address them without sounding preachy or condescending, so please understand that I am approaching this as if you have the level of knowledge that I had when it happened to my dog (very little knowledge). So forgive me if some of this is just plain simplistic and maybe obvious.
I never learned what caused the pancreatitis in my dog – there are theories, but the best experts I talked to said it could have been just plain old bad luck. What there seems to be agreement among the experts is that, once a dog has a single an episode of pancreatitis, everything changes – dietary needs, vaccine protocol, immune support, medication sensitivity, everything… FOR LIFE. That sucks, right? But it’s assumed that the pancreas is now more fragile or less efficient than it once was, and the goal becomes avoiding another bout of pancreatitis.
So you’re already working on the first step – which is diet; low protein, highly digestible, etc. etc. Essentially, a diet that doesn’t stress out his pancreas.
A compromised pancreas essentially means a problem in the digestive tract, which is why I wanted to respond to you. Digestive problems are often tied to things you are describing in Milo, like food sensitivity, itchy skin, loose bowels, yeast infections & immune deficiency. A healthy pancreas releases digestive enzymes into the digestive tract which then help to breakdown the good food you feed him so that his body can utilize all those wonderful nutrients. So the first step that you are already tackling, “what high quality food can I use?” is critical! Unfortunately, I don’t know – I feed homemade – but I trust that you will get some wisdom from this site & through your research will get that answer. But the NEXT steps are equally important, and here’s where I hope my experience can help you.
Part of the dietary changes you must make is supplementing with pancreatic enzymes. Ask your vet or do some research. I used a formula that was specifically recommended for my dog based on tests run by his endocrinologist – and my dog was a 90 pound, 14 year old Golden – so I can’t tell you what’s right for Milo. However, I can tell you that minimally, Dr. Pitcairn’s book says just pick up a human grade digestive enzyme from the vitamin store and give ½ capsule with each meal. That would be better than nothing.
Without proper food digestion, the best, highest quality diet won’t give Milo the nutrients he needs. So don’t skip this step.
Next, vaccine protocol. Dogs with compromised pancreas should follow a more “minimal” vaccine protocol. Ask your vet, or google Dr. Jean Dodd’s vaccine protocol to get additional information.
Immune support: here’s where I think Milo really would benefit from your research and discussions with your vet. The food symptoms you describe (itchy skin, loose stools, yeast imbalance, etc.) sound to me like two things going on: 1) problems in the gut – which will be dealt with thru diet & supplements; and 2) a weak immune system. The skin is a wonderful organ for telling us when our dogs’ immune systems are struggling. A dog with a healthy immune system will be pretty resilient when it comes to yeast & other skin flare ups. A balanced complete diet, fully digested with the help of enzymes may go a long way toward giving him relief – but you probably need to look into some immune support supplements to help him recover initially. Ask your vet, or look into having his immune system tested at http://www.hemopet.org the lab report will include a review by Dr. Dodds who can suggest a specific immune support protocol for Milo. I used Moducare (Thorne Labs) plus other specific herbs & vitamins.
Medication sensitivity: And here is where you are not going to like me…Prednisone is not something I would give to a dog 30 days after pancreatitis. I absolutely understand why it was prescribed (to make your itchy dog less miserable), and frankly, I don’t know of any substitute that will do the trick. The problem is, Prednisone is a corticosteroid and can actually trigger a bout of pancreatitis. It is absolutely not safe for Milo right now…sorry. Google it or ask your vet if this seems like questionable advise – but I can’t stress enough, NO PREDNISONE.
I hope you take this in the spirit offered – advice from a fellow pet owner who adores her pets. And hope Milo is on the mend soon!
Corinne

[magnoliasouth]

Hello all! My daughter works for a vet and can get Royal Canin at an enormous discount. She has her dog on Satiety right now and I have to admit that she’s doing very well on it, despite the ingredients it lists. But that’s not my question. lol!

My dog has severe skin allergies. To be honest, food changes haven’t affected it in the least. I’m thinking she’s actually allergic to grass. Still, the vet wanted my dog to go on the RC Anallergenic food and until now, she had been eating Wellness Ocean Formula.

The problems are the ingredients listed in the Anallergenic food.

Corn starch, hydrolyzed poultry by-products aggregate, coconut oil, soybean oil, natural flavors, potassium phosphate, powdered cellulose, calcium carbonate, sodium silico aluminate, chicory, L-tyrosine, fructooligosaccharides, fish oil, L-lysine, choline chloride, taurine, L-tryptophan, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], DL-methionine, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), histidine, trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.

How weird is it to have corn starch as the primary ingredient? What exactly is “hydrolyzed aggregate”? I thought corn and mystery “poultry” are allergens?

Now my daughter did ask about the hydrolyzation and was told that it has something to do with processing it to remove allergens. Not sure how true that is.

The thing is that I’m a human nurse. I know full well that just because a vet’s office sells a particular product, doesn’t mean it’s the best product. It’s all in what they get out of it. Sadly a lot of people don’t know this. I swear I think it should be illegal. It’s the same thing as lobbying, which I think also should be illegal. Decisions should be based on opinions, not money. Sorry, I accidentally launched into rant mode… and I digress.

I’ve asked my daughter to speak to the RC sales rep. In fact, this is specifically what I texted her:

Subject: Questions to as your RC sales rep. 1. Why do they use meat by-products? 2. Why aren’t meat products the primary ingredient in any of their foods? 3. Why is a corn product the primary ingredient in the Anallergenic food, when corn is a primary allergen? 4. What does “hydrolyzed poultry by-product aggregate” mean and define “poultry”? If “poultry” means chicken, why is that (also a primary allergen) in the Anallergenic food too? I have more, but we’ll stop there for now. Just tell her I’m not trying to grill, I’m trying to understand and give her a chance to explain it to me.

Perhaps someone here knows the answers already or can make suggestions or whatever.

[tapiskootskiyas t]

Hi Glen B.
As my user name implies, yes I am a musher.
I can only speak from my own experiences so please keep in mind I “ain’t no perfeshnl”.
That in mind, I can see you truly want to honor this responsibility you’ve accepted.
Lotsa KUDOs to you.

I can honestly say tho that as humans we have a tendency to overfeed our dogs and sadly with too often the wrong types of food.
Why???…. because we think they are always hungry.
Not really the case.
I can go around my kennel with 10lb chunks of meat feeding as I go.
If I have any left and any of my dogs see that they will act as they are starving.
They will go so far in their starving act as to stash their meal and go argue with their brother or aunt or…just to try muscle away some more.
I feed fat more only towards fall and during winter. Just raw, unadulterated fat.
Beef, moose, pork, deer, all kinds of foul….you name it.
I use it mainly as a source of heat energy for my dogs.
Matter of fact, I do the same for myself. More butter, fatty cuts of meat, nuts, fish.
And more amino acids. Don’t, repeat Do Not feed raw egg to your dog. It depletes their amino acid levels. 1 scrambled egg per day is great. Yes, in the wild they would eat them if they found them. But they would also instinctively know where and how to increase their amino acids to balance.
I am 56 years young, smoke 1-8 cigs per day, 5’9″ tall, weigh 180, wear sz32 pants(with long johns under) & 44-46 jacket, snowshoe my trails(pack them for my team)…..
I can go on for quite some about my activity level but…
My point is, if my dog seems happy and healthy I would assume he most likely ain’t sick and suffering. Dogs don’t lie.
Also, if the vet couldn’t find worms or any other affliction your dog is most likely good to go.
It takes time to build lean, strong muscle. Fat builds up a lot quicker.
Point in question, I have seen but 1 “over weight” runner in many years following the marathons, sitting on my couch watching the TV, NOT!!.lol
Most chicken today is raised ii intense farming methods. They are butchered young, about 6-8 weeks of age. Older chickens have a higher level of amino acids. Hence the more wholesome flavour in soup made from a worn out layer or an open-range grazed, 6 month or year old.
Most beef are slaughtered on their second year, even if they are “feedlot beef”. Also, yes, beef is higher fat content. Since you get your chicken cheap, maybe ask a butcher for some beef and/or pork fat trimmings. Probably get it free. I do.
My dogs get extreme trotties from milk and milk products. Just about killed a whole team once. “watered” them with watered down baby formula thonking “energy”…. went mushing away in the bush miles from home. If they weren’t loyal to me and follow me, I wouldn’t have had the heart to go on without them…. wouldn’t be telling this big long story to you today.lol
My (approx)recipe for active working dog from 50-80 pounds, daily, in winter 4-7 lbs red meat, about 8-16 oz raw fat, cook 1 tbsp rice(I use WildRice), I cooked egg, 1 tsp raw veg oil, 1/8 tsp doggie vitamins, and always fresh water.
The red meat has liver kidney, heart and lung in accordance with whole animal weights.
Actually, I now feed my dogs whole animal diet. Viscera, epiderma, skeletal, the whole works, including(not excluding much of anything) goose, duck, pork, moose, fish, deer, elk, etc., etc..
Cheaper and easier, and yes, healthier .
However, my dogs are pure northern spitz breeds of sled dogs. For all intensive purposes, practically domesticated wolves.
I won’t and can’t promise all this info will work for Pitbull, but I can ascertain to you that all domestic dogs are 90%-99% wolf DNA.
Please reconsider the raw eggs. It is actually cuts down on the body’s ability to convert food to usable energy, not very healthy for dogs.
Whole raw fish is an excellent diet. Just cut off thorns, horns, barbles form the likes of catfish.
I am truly sorry if my “novel” has bored, offended, angered, insulted, or hurt you in any way.
My intention is to assist other dog lovers assist their dogs to have a healthy, long life.
Please take what you can use.
HAGD
Musher.. out for now

[Naturella]

Daryl,

For my after-bath rub, I use chamomile oil that is sunflower-based and the three-vitamin oil (I got those from Bulgaria where I’m from), but you can make your own by boiling dried chamomile in sunflower oil and draining out the flower bits, and get the three vitamins in capsule form and just mix them up. I also had about 5-10ml left of a Garnier Triple Nutrition oil spray (the one with the avocado, olive, and shea oils), so to that I added 10ml chamomile oil, 20ml olive oil, 20ml melted coconut oil, and 20ml three-vitamin oil in the spritz bottle of the Garnier oil. Shake really well to blend and before each use.

I usually wash Bruno and towel-dry him and then spritz some oil on my hands (2-3 spritzes is plenty for a small dog) and rub him down while still a bit wet. If he looks greasy in any spots, I just hive him a quick brush with the boar bristle brush. Works wonders. 🙂

He gets about 1 full shampoo and oil bath per month and if he gets a little dirty he gets just a water shower. But you can do the oil thing weekly after a shower if you want, for a wire coat. Also, the mix is great for conditioning human hair too. 🙂

[Naturella]

What Sandy said! 🙂
Fish-based food and coconut oil have done wonders for my Rat Terrier mix Bruno’s coat. Also, after a bath, I rub him down with a mix of sunflower oil with vitamins A, D, and E, and olive, coconut, chamomile, avocado, and shea oils. It makes him extra him soft and shiny! 🙂

[loopoo]

Trying to find a food without a soy based vitamin, like pulling teeth. Unfortunately Natures logic has alfalfa( dogs are allergic to that… anyone know any other brands? stinks as I phoned a few raw food suppliers that had a balanced mix, even Darwin, their vitamins are soy sourced( so far Honest Kitchen is the only soy free one i know, but had hoped to add another to the mix….

[Debbie L]

I think I’d add a little more than just potatoes and peas. The apples and oatmeal sounds good. Perhaps some egg as well.

Many years ago my aging female Collie had a terrible time with fleas, as her immunity was down due to age. I started feeding Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover’s Soul and within about a month on that the fleas all but vanished. I looked at the ingredients, and unfortunately your dog may be allergic, but the oatmeal and another item listed were high in B vitamins and I believe that’s what helped to repel the fleas.

If you Google it there are many natural homemade dog food recipes on the net. You can supplement the dog’s diet with dog vitamins. To be safe I would if I were making my own dog food recipe.

Another suggestion would be to occasionally give the dog some probios paste, pronounced pro-bee-ose. Your farm and ranch store will know what it is. Very high in vitamins and minerals. Just takes a small bit at a time. Or sprinkle some powdered milk for baby animals on the food. Also at farm and ranch. High in vitamins, minerals and also calcium animals need.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Debbie L.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Debbie L.

[macsmommy]

I have been feeding my dogs Blue Ridge Beef mixed with Sojo’s dehydrated veggies for 5 years. Sojo’s is a mixture of vegetables with added vitamins and I buy it at doggiefood.com for a low price with free shipping. However, I have recently switched from Blue Ridge to Primal Raw because I had recently noticed my dog’s feces looking really black and soft and was somewhat concerned. At that same time, I read some comments on Dogfoodadvisor.com that Blue Ridge Beef’s Owner, Steven Lea, owns a collection facility that picks up dead, diseased, and dying animals. The name of the company is Lea Way Farms. The mailing address is the same for both companies. I was mortified when I read that. So I did some research and found more information regarding same. So then I contacted Dee at Blue Ridge Beef’s office and she could not adequately put my fears to rest. She told me that “anyone that has common sense would realize there would be no future in us selling diseased food to our valued pets.” Now, mind you, I have been a customer of theirs for 5 years!! She did not directly address my question regarding rendered meat being in their products other than referring to what my common sense should tell me which was quite offensive and infuriating. To me, owning a pet food company and a collection facility for dead, diseased, and dying animals is a HUGE conflict of interest. In addition, apparently the owner, Steven Lea, applied for a permit to build a Rendering Plant, but the city commission was not keen on the idea, so Steven Lea withdrew his application. Needless to say, I am not feeding my dogs Blue Ridge Beef anymore. I have switched to Primal Formula. They have a freeze dried formula that my dogs love. It is 100% human grade raw meat and I feel safer with this product. It’s a little more expensive, but well worth it.

[macsmommy]

Dane H, I have been feeding my dogs Blue Ridge Beef since they were puppies and I have always mixed their food with Sojos Dehydrated Veggies. You can’t just feed meat to them, you should feed them a balanced diet. There are vitamins included in Sojos as well. You can buy a bag Sojos for a good price, free shipping, at doggiefood.com. They’ll email you discounts as well.

With that said, I have however recently learned that Blue Ridge Beef’s owner, Steven Lea, also owns a collection facility that picks up dead diseased, and dying animals. The mailing address is the same for both companies. I was mortified when I heard this. So I contacted Dee at their office, and she could not adequately put my fears to rest. She told me that “anyone that has common sense would realize there would be no future in us selling diseased food to our valued pets.” Now, mind you, I have been a customer of theirs for 5 years!! She did not directly address my question regarding rendered meat being in their products other than referring to what my common sense should tell me which was quite offensive and infuriating. To me, owning a pet food company and a collection facility for dead, diseased, and dying animals is a HUGE conflict of interest. Apparently, the owner, Steven Lea, also applied for a permit to build a Rendering Plant, but the city commission was not keen on the idea, so Steven Lea withdrew his application. Needless to say, I am not feeding my dogs Blue Ridge Beef anymore. I have switched to Primal Formula. They have a freeze dried formula that my dogs love. It is 100% human grade raw meat and I feel safer with this product. It’s a little more expensive, but well worth it.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by macsmommy.

[gmcbogger38]

I would just like to get some opinions about a dog food made locally (within 10 miles) around where I live. The food is a limited ingredient diet and they have different protein levels. Lowest is 21% protein and highest is 28%. I can’t copy and paste (dang phone), but I will list ingredients exactly as written on their website: Meat and bone meal (beef/pork/bone), whole corn, chicken fat, mineral and vitamin packet. It lists all of the minerals and vitamins, but I didn’t want to write those all. Now, I know “meat meal” listed as ingredient is not necessarily good because you don’t know what it is, but this does list beef and pork, so technically it’s not an unnamed meat meal. I don’t know much about bone meal, but why is that considered a bad ingredient? Raw fed dogs eat bones. I’m not too worried about the corn, as my dogs have done fine with corn in foods. The reason I would like to get opinions about this food is because I am on a tight budget until I am finally done with college (less than 10 mths). I have not contacted the company about the price, but from what I’ve heard (couple years old) the food is 50lbs for around $20, which they do no advertising, besides website, and have plain bags. I know it is not the best food and I am doing a rotational diet, but I just need to find some more affordable foods to rotate with, for now. Thanks for any input!

[pugmomsandy]

No, it would not be too much fish with added sardines. Just like it would not be too much chicken if you added some real chicken as a topper for a chicken kibble. As far as the large portions are concerned, that’s where a big freezer comes in handy and a grinder. You could purchase various meaty bones and cases of organs and muscle meat and then use them according to the recipe you choose. X lbs of necks, X lbs muscle meat, X lbs organs, etc. Or you could start with a Premix where you only add in muscle meat (ground chicken or beef or pork, etc) and the Premix and some oil. The Premix has vitamins. When I order by the case, I prefer 2 lb chubs over 5 or 10 lb chubs but I have small dogs.

[Judy M]

The probiotics need to be vegetarian, made for dogs, not humans. I like Rx Biotics by Rx Vitamins. Don’t use Fortiflora – it has Animal Digest. YUCK

[Jenn F]

She had a tooth pulled that was bad last Tuesday, we though that once that bad tooth was gone she would eat normal again….nope!!! We have been mixing canned in & it helps but she always leaves some. We tried yogurt, coconut oil, & doggie gravy (vitamins made to look like gravy) as toppers & she’s not a fan of any.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Jenn F.

[Katie J]

I’ll definitely pick up that book you’re suggesting this weekend. We’re planning a puppy outing at our local town center that has several pet friendly stores.

My little guys are pretty active. When they aren’t napping, it’s full on puppy mode for both of them! Plus we make trips about 5 times a week to where I board my horses, and spend several hours playing and exploring. I figure once the pup is full grown, we’ll be going through about a pound a day between the two of them. But I have no idea how big the pup will get. I could be underestimating. The co-op I plan to purchase from estimates about $1.50 a day to feed a 40 lb dog, and I think we will be under that weight between the two of them. I can get behind that! I am a little overwhelmed with their offerings as a lot of it is large portions. I’m not sure how to feed it all. I guess those books would answer that for me!

Next I want to look into supplements for their raw diet. I gather that they can have human multivitamins. The only draw back is that I have to make sure it’s safe for dogs and the mix may not be optimal, right? I know that Hound Dog Mom buys things separately. But I’ll admit her list of supplements confuses me quickly!

[Cordell N]

Hello,
I home cook for my three dogs. A 7 month old Australian Shepherd, a senior Boston Terrier and a senior Bassett Hound. I make their food in a crock pot twice a week.
I use a combination of meats which usually include chicken thighs or chicken quarters and ground beef and chicken gizzards. I also add ground lamb if I can find it in the discount area.
I throw in carrots, green beans and other vegetables from my garden like squash and tomatoes. If I have some fruit that needs to be eaten I throw that in also. I add some water and cook until done. I remove the everything and debone the chicken and mash with a potatoes masher and mix well. I then cook my carbs in the liquid. Sometimes rice, potatoes, lentils, oats or barley. I least that cook until very well done add a can of pumpkin and mix it all together. I would estimate that the meat comprises about 75% of their diet.

I add a supplement I make at feeding that includes ground egg shell, nutritional yeast, kelp powder, lecithin granules, ground multivitamins, salmon oil, yogurt, apple cider with the mother and Brazil nuts. I also put a cube or two of cooked beef liver or canned sardines on top a couple of times a week.
I would like to add some raw food and bones to their routine.
I bought the following at the Asian and Mexican markets.
Chicken and turkey necks
Pork neck bones
Beef feet cut up
Pork heart.
My questions are can I give a neck a couple of tomes a week as a treat?
Are raw pork neck bones and cut up raw beef feet safe as treats?
Should I cook the pork heart in the crock pot with my other meat or serve a small portion raw on top of their cooked food?
Thanks in advance for your help!
Cordell

[DogFoodie]

Excellent thoughts James!

I remember many years ago, I had to board my Black Lab at a kennel where I lived in Florida. I told them that she must be met out of the kennel as she would only go to the bathroom on the grass. I was so excited to see her that we hopped in the car and headed for home as soon as I picked her up. Within minutes, I thought she had had and when I turned around to look, the poor thing had just pooped a week’s worth of poop on the back seat. They obviously never let my poor baby out of the damn kennel the entire time she was there. I was furious.

Oh, and Wellness is GMO free. They may source some synthetic vitamins and minerals from China. Many synthetic vitamins and minerals are from China.

[USA]

Hi Richard D

Low fat and high protein diets are the standard of care for Lymphangiectasia. It looks like supplementation with the fat soluble vitamins A, D, E and K is also recommended.

I would also speak to my vet and do my own research on supplementing your dog’s diet with digestive enzymes to help with the absorption of protein.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Eli,

I think I’d add protein (like fresh lean meat), rather than veggies, if you’re concerned about weight. Also, you need to keep the extras to no more than 20% of your dog’s diet or he won’t be getting the correct amount of vitamins and minerals intended for the kibble you choose.

[Michele N]

I’ve done my research with my dog for the past 5 years, as he’s had issues since I’ve had him. I KNOW how to read a label, and believe me, I’ve spent more time doing that than anyone I know. I am not an idiot that doesn’t know how to read ingredients, and I am offended at Dinovite, who sent me an ingredient list, of a dog food, that is NOT even what I feed my dog. Maybe THEY should do their research before sending out an email of an ingredient list of a completely different dog food then what I feed my dog. It’s pretty ignorant if you ask me. I have the privilege of knowing pet nutritionist, holistic vets, and have come to my own conclusions, that feeding raw is the very best option, especially if you use your own human food, because then you know exactly what your dog is eating. Unfortunately I cannot afford to feed him this on a daily basis, nor do I always have the time to prepare it for my 3. I am lucky to have 2 excellent pet food stores, not big commercial chain stores, that actually do their research and buy high quality dog and cat food. I switched to grain free years ago, but until I found a brand that used a very limited amount of ingredients did my poor allergy sufferer get any true relief and his skin infection cleared up,and all of his fur grew back. I also think taking him to an allergist and having him tested for every ingredient in dog food, is not only ridiculously expensive, but it’s a huge waste of money. The fact being that the dog food companies use fillers with their mix of vitamins, some of which come from China and India. This is NOT listed on the ingredients on any package including this Dinovite stuff. So that being said, none of us REALLY know every single ingredient in dog food, or premixed vitamins, like Dinovite. Who knows where they get the fillers used to bind the vitamin mix. Who knows for sure what is truly in it? Fact is, my dog is allergic to the outside environment and there isn’t anything I can do to prevent that, which is partly why I wanted to try this Dinovite to help him with this time of year, as they claim the vitamin mix helps dogs with yeast and allergy issues. But instead of helping him, it made him break out with red bumps all over his body, and now we have to deal with a skin infection. There is obviously something in this product that he is very allergic to. So my question is, why is this company putting ingredients in their product, that could cause these severe allergic reactions in dogs that already have immune suppressed systems? Why are they telling people to put their dogs on a yeast free, and grain free diet, yet put those ingredients in their supplement? It seems highly irresponsible of this company to CLAIM to help these dogs, only to make them worse. I can use my own supplements in my dogs food, which is what I was doing, without issues, so I guess, yes , I should’ve known better. Any product out there that CLAIMS to be a cure all, is really a SCAM! I have learned to trust my better judgement, and know that most of these pet products are full of crap. Literally! Also explain to me why when I emailed Dinovite, telling them since putting my dog on it, he is itchier, that,they told me that I need to keep him on it longer because I haven’t given it enough time to do it’s work? Maybe they need to hire some reputable people that give out good advice instead of just caring about their pocket book. Maybe they need to put a disclaimer on their product, stating that this supplement may actually make your dog sicker than he was before starting him on it, and may require you taking him to the vet and paying out enormous vet bills to fix the problem that our product may cause your pet. This product may have helped other dogs that don’t have poor immune systems that can handle the crap they put in this product.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dawn –

If you’re feeding a balanced raw diet, it’s not necessary to add any supplements. However, there are many supplements that may be beneficial. Probiotics are a great way to support gut health – you can purchase probiotic supplements or mix in some kefir or plain yogurt with his meals. Omega 3’s are a wonderful way to support a a healthy skin and coat, provide ant-inflammatory benefits and support the immune system – you can purchase a high quality fish oil or feed tinned sardines and/or cage-free eggs a couple times per week. There are various nutraceuticals that have various health promoting properties you may want to consider – I personally like to make a “blend” of items such as bee pollen, spirulina, kelp, chlorella, turmeric, etc. Swanson Vitamins is a great site to shop for supplements, I do the majority of my supplement shopping for both my dogs and myself there. They’ve got a lot of great stuff and the best prices I’ve found.

[Akari_32]

How do these look?

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-16-strain-probioticwith-fos-60-veg-caps

Or this one?

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-probiotic-complex-120-veg-drcaps

Ooh, look at this yeast one!

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-condition-specific-formulas-yeast-defense-essentials-120-caps

[Akari_32]

I was looking around for some probiotics on the clearance shelf the other day, but couldn’t find any. Just a bunch of vitamins and stuff lol I may try the kiefer. I like that idea. I always forget about it lol how much should I give him?

Yep! We have also have PetLand if you go a bit more north, and various shops. My favorite shop just closed down because PetCo moved in down the street and took a lot of their business 🙁

[Susan]

Hi Small, I never gave Patch no Prednisone, I read alot & its a quick fix that doesnt get to the root of his real problem, It has helped a few dogs with real bad IBD but not all…I rung the new vet & told him that I still havnt given Patch no Prednisone..he said thats OK, then I said Im stopping his boiled chicken in the morning then he said if you elminate chicken I have to change his eukanuba Intestinal as its chicken & turkey, so I bought the wellness Simple Duck & Oatmeal the duck has the lowest fat% 11%, I swapped his chicken with Tuna in springwater he only gets half a small can drained then mixed with pumkin on 1 slice of toast to keep it down, as he was burping up the chicken & pumkin, he seems better on the Tuna we just had 2 days that he had his pain in his stomach, Ive read a few of Dr Beckers post & she said that some dogs dont make enough stomach acid, thats probably why when he took the Losec it made things worst as the Losec would of stopped all stomach acids & Carafate never helped, I thought the Zantac was helping but maybe not as when things work he lets me give them to him like his Probiotic I mix with 10ml water & he loves drinking it but when he sees me get his Zantac he’d run & start playing try & catch me mum I dont want that pill….I hate changing kibbles I always worry will he get diarrhea like once before, so Ive just been giving him some Simple Duck kibbles as treat & some mixed in with his lunch time kibble, but his hive like lumps on his head that he was getting are gone so maybe he cant tolorate chicken, but his Intestinal has Chicken unless the way its cooked for kibble in the end there’s not much chicken at 23% protein, if I increase his protein he get his stomach reflux & pain, all I know is when he gets whatever he gets, he’ll sit near me lift his front right paw & I have to rub his tummy & he starts doing his licking his mouth like he feels sick..I ask him do u fell sick & he’ll start to lick me as if to say yes…
May I ask Small what vitamins & minerals do you give, Im in Australia & I cant order the Mercola or Berte products they dont have a distributor for Austraila they need someone to export their products.. Ive looked online for digestive enzymes & I cant find none, so Id say Id have to get from the vet as they can order in stuff we cant..