[Codex]

I’m looking for recommendations on probiotics, oils, digestive enzymes and glucosamine & chondroitin supplements. I have a 20 pound dog with no known allergies besides possibly vaccine(s).

So far this is what I’ve picked up for my dog but I’m looking for advice. I’m new to supplements. Any and all advice is welcome!

Digestive enzymes–I got really yucky smelling digestive enzymes but apparently the smell is normal. I already opened the bottle so I guess I’m stuck with that. I haven’t used any yet…I’m letting the bottle air out.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

Coconut oil–Planning on adding 2 tsp every day to morning meal. Right now she’s getting 1/4 tsp.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-organic-certified-organic-extra-virgin-coconut-oil-54-oz-1-53-kilograms-solid-oil?otherSize=SWF035

GLUCOSAMINE & CHONDROITIN–Natrol Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM (She’s going to get 2 tablets daily for the first seven days. After that she’s going to get 1 tablet a day.)
http://www.natrol.com/p-50-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm.aspx

Probiotic–Lifeway Kefir–About a tablespoon added to meal every other day.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Codex.
• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Codex.

[weezerweeks]

My vet gave me samples of platinum performance complete joint care today. Has anyone used this. It’s in a powder form. I showed him my bottle of mercola joint tablets and he said they looked good but he wanted me to try platinum.my little yorkie had to have injection today and meta am for 4 days. He has luxating patella. Just wondered if anyone had used these.

[InkedMarie]

I use human joint supplement from SwansonVitamins.com. It’s called joint mobility plus. It has all kinds of stuff that is important for joints. Salmon oil is also good. I assume you’re feeding grainfree; am I correct?

[aquariangt]

thanks Marie. Any opinion on hip and joint supplements? I’m pretty green in the world of supplementing. I just bought some Fish Oil, and am getting some Probiotics, but don’t know much about the hip and joint ones

[crazy4cats]

Yes, Mom2Cavs, that is what I dislike about ordering online also. I like to check the bags for tears and expiration dates before I purchase. It’s so difficult to return food online if there is a problem. You most likely just have to “eat” the costs. Plus, it’s nice to support our local pet stores if possible. I have gotten some expired or close to expired supplements when ordering from Amazon. But, so far, I’ve had great luck ordering dog food from Amazon, Wag and Petco. I am going to be trying rocketpetz in the next week.

[Naturella]

I am so happy you are already seeing improvement in your boy, Fatcakes! 🙂
Good food, chews/treats, and supplements really do work wonders on our beloved pets from the inside! 🙂

Keep us posted on how his dandruff issue goes!

P.S. I am about to switch my Bruno to fish-based food in about a month or so, so good to know my apartment will smell like an aquarium as well, LoL!

[aquariangt]

Just curious as to some opinions on dry foods with close to 40% protein analysis. The sheltie is getting fairly active (agility) but the other two are mostly house dogs- not much more than walks, though I have a yard so they can run.

I do like to keep them on the same food, but would the high protein food be unhealthy for the others, or is it not going to cause too much unhealthy weight gain? Also- hip and joint supplements, yay or nay? Vet said she should with her agility stuff, but of course, I rarely pay attention to them re:nutrition

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by aquariangt.

[Mom2Cavs]

Ooohh….Cavaliers! I have 2 right now, older girls. Congratulations on your new baby. If it were me and I had another puppy I would probably feed Fromm Gold Puppy, or Wellness Small Breed Puppy. I also like all-life-stage foods like Annamaet, Fromm 4Star, Dr. Tim’s. I also top my dogs’ food with canned food for more variety and moisture. A good probiotic/enzyme supplement, a whole food vitamin/mineral, and omega 3’s in the form of fish oil are some things to consider in the future, as well. I also admit I used to feed Greenies and Dentastix but discovered the ingredients aren’t that great and they can be a choking hazard, as well. Now, I like to use The Honest Kitchen Beams. They are dried fish skins. I’m sure others will have recommendations for you soon. 🙂

[Fatcakes]

This is great, thank you all so much. My house smells like an aquarium now but totally worth it. We have gotten rid of all treats, etc that have chicken, and also are switching the cats to Orijin. Origin and THK treats, with some egg, pumpkin, sardines, and coconut oil rotated in here and there as well (not all of this has been implemented yet for the sake of his digestive tract and my carpet). I don’t think he has a fish allergy as the only improvement I saw was after starting the fish oil supplement. Love the spreadsheet idea, too! He loves his Beam treats and new food. I can’t wait to see if this fixes the dandruff. I swear his fur is already getting softer…

[Newfs]

Hello,
I recall to my question.
Very counting on your answers.
Regards
Newfs
” Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ? “

[Shasta220]

Sounds like you’ve already got some ideas for foods to try – I don’t know that many brands personally, so I usually say it’s safe to go with 4-5 star brands.

As for the skin. I wouldn’t expect a bath to help much, as soaps tend to strip the coat even more, unless they’re medicated and designed for dry skin (when my dog is super dry, I use an oil-based organic shampoo. Sometimes it’s almost too much though, and my dog doesn’t feel clean at all).

Some things to look into: possibly tests for food allergies? As almost all skin problems have something to do with food, sadly. It could be chicken, grains, tomatoes, fish, the list goes on. I’d try getting him on coconut oil – organic extra virgin cold pressed, about 1tbsp per 30lbs. That stuff has been known as a miracle worker around these parts! Salmon oil is very good, too. Keep that up, 🙂

Fiber additions – most people add a big spoonful of pumpkin (canned is fine) to their dogs food. If there’s no improvement in his morning routine, then possibly try some probiotic supplements as well.

[Fatcakes]

Thank you so much! How often do you rotate your boy’s food? I just got back from the pet store(s) and have a bag of Orijen Six Fish. I’m blending that with the Innova Prime to switch him over and will continue the fish oil supplement and research. I would like him to have more than 18% fat but we’ll see how he does after getting off the Innova first. I’m very interested in the Victor as well. I hadn’t heard of the Honest Kitchen until just now, and it looks like Beams are sold at the same store I just got the Orijen. haha fish-averse hubby is about to rue the day I found this website. 😀
Thanks again!

[Sheltie_Pom]

I am considering the option of feeding/supplementing my dogs with homemade food and I was wondering what all meats/veggies do I need to give them to make sure they get all the right nutrients.

BTW: I have 4 dogs, a almost 3 year old 21 ib Sheltie female (Rosie, a 1 and 3 month old 20 ib male Sheltie (Mickey), a 4 week old male Sheltie (Shiloh, he is still with his mom.) and a 5 week old Pomeranian male (I won’t have him for 3 more weeks).

Thanks everyone.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sheltie_Pom.

[Fatcakes]

Hi all. In December I got a healthy, active, 9 yr old male German Shepherd. he was eating Pro Plan Sport, the 30/20 kind. He had terrible gas so I switched him slowly to Innova Prime Chicken and Turkey. He has developed dry, flaky skin along his back and sides. Bathing actually aggravated his skin terribly. He is now also supplemented with fish oil (for people), 1200-2400 mg per day. I’ve seen improvement from that, but he’s still really dandruffy along his back. I’m brand loyal to Innova as that’s what we fed during the first China food disaster; my in-laws pets sickened and died on vet-prescribed food, but our pets were fine.
What should I try next? He is extremely active and lean; he doesn’t need any calorie reduction. He could use more fiber in his diet, I think, as sometimes it takes him a long time to finish his morning constitutional. I’m open to trying a different brand of food, although I have a hard time believing he’s not getting what he needs from the Innova Prime. I’m also open to mixing different foods if that would help. What do you think?

[Lori]

I was wondering for those who know about homemade dog foods if you could comment on the Puppy Stew recipe? A lot cocker owners make this for their good. Is it nutritionally sound, or would their need to be extra supplements added in? Thanks!

http://www.cockersinneed.com/puppystew.html

[crazy4cats]

I also have labs with digestive issues. The supplements that I have used with success that have similar ingredients are: Gastriplex by Thorne, Vetri Probiotics BD by Vetri-Science, Phytomucil by Animal Essentials and the Perfect Form by Honest Kitchen. Good luck all. This is not a fun issue to deal with.

[ForBlackjack]

I agree dealing with Colitis is hard and it seems like every dog reacts differently. My 8 year old Lab mix has had issues for the last couple of years and I have tried many different diets, some better than others, the biggest help we found is the consistent use of supplements that help his digestive system. We use 2 things we order online from this place called askariel.com, called Soothing Digestives Relief and Power Probiotics. http://www.askariel.com/dog-and-cat-IBD-p/163.htm They seem to help a lot, of course it helps if he doesn’t garbage dive too.

[Shasta220]

I have no help to offer, but I’m just following this threat pretty much for the heck of it. I have a form of IBS, (ironically, diarrhea is not involved, phew!) so I totally feel your doggie. The only things I’ve been told for mine is, obviously, to avoid certain foods, which it sounds like you’re already doing.
I guess you could say I might just have to try eating whatever kibble/supplements that’s helping your pooch out? LOL, not seriously.

Best wishes! 😀

[Shasta220]

I’ve never done home made diets, so I’m terribly sorry – I’m not much help. I completely understand though, I have a cat who is ultra picky. She will not touch ANY type of commercial food (we’ve tried dry, canned, flaked, pouched, refrigerated, you name it, she’s turned her nose up at.). We tried offering her nothing but cat food for a week straight, and she probably would have completely starved herself, she would NOT touch it.

She’s picky about her food now even, so she doesn’t get the nutrition she needs, and it’s showing sadly… I’m jumping on this thread to see what some suggestions might be.

The only way I could think of hiding extra nutrition into their food is by grinding it. I know organ meats and raw bones are important in a balanced diet. Maybe buying a supplemental powder (just general vitamins probably) and try adding that, maybe start with just 1/2 day’s worth, as many animals can detect the smell of it and refuse. Omegas are always one of my favorite additions. My dogs get it with fish oils (salmon, sardine, krill, I think even algae would work), and raw eggs – your dogs may prefer the taste of cooked.

Just play around with how much you can get in there without it being too detected. Possibly try coconut oil as well, it has tons of benefits. Try offering them a teaspoon of organic extra virgin cold-pressed coconut oil. It’s great for their skin, fur, teeth, digestion, and pretty much everything else! Most dogs like it, too.

Hopefully you’ll be able to figure out something that works out perfectly. Have you tried commercial dehydrated, refridgorated, or raw foods? They already have balanced nutrients, so you wouldn’t need to worry about many supplements.

And yes, dog nutrition is very very confusing. Research and reading forums seems to make it worse, as everyone has their own opinions and experiences… Plus, every dog is different, so what works miracles for my dog might do absolutely nothing for yours. Just keep trying to gain information though, I’m sure you’ll slowly start figuring it out. (I’m new to nutrition myself, but the more I’m on here, the more I learn!)

[blizhagan]

We are seeking help! Our dogs have progressively been having worse and worse stomach issues.

We adopted our 1.5 year old Chocolate Lab in October 13 and we also have a 25 pound 3.5 year old Basenji Mix. We wanted to put the dogs on great food when we got our lab. Our Basenji previously had been on Trader Joe’s Lamb and Rice Formula. He has been fine on that since we have had him however when I researched the food when we got our lab I was disappointed by the quality. Our lab was adopted from a family who could no longer care for him and he was on Kirkland Lamb and Rice Formula.

First we tried out the Kirkland with the dogs but both dogs were constipated and were having hard stools. Our lab was also going through 5-6 cups a day.

So we went to a local natural dog food store and they sugguested for our budget and needs to put the dogs on Diamond food and they said to rotate the flavor every bag so that their stomachs will strengthen.

Well our lab was flying thru the Diamond food and looked like he was losing weight so we were supplementing with wet food for more protein for him. The basenji still had constipation.

So we decided we need to go to Blue Buffalo for all the ratings. They have been on Blue Buffalo since mid November. We feed the Basenji 3/4 cup of food twice a day and the Lab (80 pounds) 2 cups twice a day.

They did ok with the Adult Lamb and Brown Rice and the Adult Salmon and Sweet Potatoes however they had the occasional diarrhea and or constipation. Now we got the Chicken and Brown Rice formula and every day for the past week both have been either throwing up or having diarrhea. They aren’t lethargic or have any other symptoms. They are both very active still and their coats look great except our lab has a bit of dandruff.

I am wondering what other food should we try? Would going grain free or getting the wilderness blend be better? Or should we switch brands entirely? Is switching the flavors what is causing this even when we transition the foods? Just looking for some advice.

We live in the mountains and this time of the year they have to be inside while we are out so their stomach issues are much harder to deal with and I just want them to feel better!

Thank you in advance!

[Shasta220]

I honestly don’t see why it’s so nessicary to get a small-breed food, other than the fact that the Kibbles will be smaller. I don’t really think breed-specific food really changes the formula much. I really would try to avoid Purina, even the best-rated “Pro Plan” is mainly fillers, which your little doggie definitely doesn’t need! Iams food is alright, but still not as good as the commercials make it seem.

If none of your dogs have super special needs, then you could possibly switch them all over to one specific food. I have an old lab, a young herder, and a middle aged mutt (happy birthday, Shasta!). They are all on the same food. I admit, I do add different supplements to suit their needs.

[robertdee]

I had the same problem with my puppy and we have used this with great success in the past: http://bestdogremedies.com/product/bionic-biotic-condition-and-digestion-supplement/

[robertdee]

One way to help your dog with allergic reactions is to improve the efficiency of your dog’s digestive system by increasing the amount of friendly bacteria in the gut. I would recommend to use a product such as this one: http://bestdogremedies.com/product/bionic-biotic-supplement-to-stop-itching-and-scratching/

[robertdee]

Here’s the thing:

At the first glance it appears that there are a lot of things that cause weight gain in dogs, but the reality is that just like with humans it’s all about energy balance. Dogs gain weight simply because their daily caloric intake is greater than their daily caloric output. In simple terms they either eat too much or they don’t move enough.

There’s no dog food that will make your dog lean, but I would recommend you to look into supplements for example: http://bestdogremedies.com/product/w8-off-weight-loss-aid-for-dogs/

[robertdee]

All of you say that X food is better than Y food, but what we all need to keep in mind is that dogs are different. A Rottweiler has a completely different nutritional needs from a Pomeranian puppy and in order to get the best results you’ve got to constantly experiment with different foods to see what works for your dog.

My puppy was suffering from colitis and after spending a considerable time on the forums on the members on here recommended to look into a supplement called Bionic Biotic made by a leading English dog supplements company in the UK. They sell in the US: http://bestdogremedies.com/product/bionic-biotic-condition-and-digestion-supplement/

Anyway, after giving it ago colitis has gone away in less than three weeks. Maybe it was this supplement or maybe not, but it worked for Rocky.

[Shasta220]

If you’re not opposed to cooking for him, I’d highly recommend getting into a raw diet. I believe there are several brands of raw foods on here which already contain the proper amount of nutrients/supplements. The Honest Kitchen is one that I’m thinking of right now… I’d definitely check out the raw forums on here so you can get an idea. It’s very very overwhelming and confusing at first, but after a few days of researching and then a few weeks of perfecting your recipes, you’ll be good to go!
My favorite part about the raw diet is you know /exactly/ what goes into it. No more looking at long ingredient labels, or wondering “hmm…where was this protein sourced from?”

[Sharon Buchanan]

In the numerous raw topics and posts here on DFA and in particular, this topic on recipes, great attention is paid to supplementing raw meats/poultry with veggies, vitamins and others. In reading articles elsewhere on feeding whole prey, we’re told that dogs don’t eat veggies (of course, I’ve never seen a dog take down a cow either), so making sure they get the whole chicken over time or the whole rabbit over time, among others, should provide them with a balanced diet. These two diet/recipe concepts seem contradictory.

Now, I do supplement with coconut oil, curcumen, a c-complex and garlic for reasons I’ve stated elsewhere, in addition to the obvious ones. I’ve taken the advice of Patty and finally found a grocery that carries kafir (which may be hard to continue because the smell gives me indigestion and Mystery reeks of it all day), and I give Mystery a whole egg occasionally – cracked over a coarse grind with the shell.

If I may, I’d like to list the raw meats I have on hand and get some suggestions on the best way to combine them, add to them, improve something or another. I’m hoping to get half a cow in a few weeks from a local farm, but until then I’ve been ordering from MPC. So here’s what I have right now:

Ground Beef Tripe Supermix
Ground Whole Young Beef
Coarse Ground Whole Rabbit
Coarse Ground Whole Chicken
Whole Turkey Necks – they’re huge
Duck Necks
Chicken Feet
RMBs – emphasis on RM
Marrow bones from my local grocery

Mystery’s adult healthy weight averages 85 lbs. (UK Kennel standards (not AKC) for English Creme Golden Retrievers). I had to take my kitten to the vet yesterday and took Mystery with me to get his weight 56.4 lbs – exactly what he weighed at the beginning of January. He’s grown longer as his breed would but his ribs, while not visible, are easily felt. He’s 11 months old. Talked it over with the vet and she wondered if he was a runt – we wondered together. I’ve been feeding him just under 3 lbs. a day over two meals.

So, I guess what I need to know is how to balance the foods listed, whats missing from my raw “pantry”, as well as any ideas on how to bulk him – not a lot, but more than he is. I expect him to reach full growth at about 18 months.

Thanks in advance! Seems the more I know, the less I know.

[Sharon Buchanan]

I just posted this on another thread as part of a larger response. Thought I’d add it to the discussion here.

I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

Patty ~ what’s a supergreen? 3? Is it important to find a bee pollen that is local the way one could get relief from seasonal allergies by eating local honey, or is any bee pollen good for the immune system? Since Mystery is on a full raw diet now, would whole herring, anchovies and sardines be better than the oils (note, I am considering krill oil but only if I can’t find a good source of raw fish)?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
Just a bit of additional info on some of the ingredients I mentioned that I look out for.

1. Rosemary Extract – Our oldest Golden started having seizures when she was about 3 years old. As Sunset got older her seizures increased so our vet put her on Phenobarbital, a dosage I eventually decreased as she seemed dazed most of the time. When I started researching food for our newest Golden, I discovered an article on the relationship between rosemary extract and increased seizures in humans that have them. If rosemary extract can exacerbate seizures in humans, it goes that it would do the same in a dog with seizures. I immediately got ahold of my husband in Korea and told him to stop feeding Blue Wilderness. Unfortunately, he’s at the mercy of the commissary and they just don’t have any quality foods. As it turned out, she died from cancer at the end of January, she was almost 11. Some dog foods list rosemary, others list rosemary extract. I avoided all extract recipes when I was trying to find a better food for Sunset. There was no indication that rosemary extract causes seizures so it isn’t a concern with Mystery nor the Golden my husband recently adopted. If either started seizing, then rosemary would be a concern again.

2. Canola Oil – We love our Goldens. In the United States, about 69% of all Golden Retrievers over the age of two will die from cancer. Our Sunset joined that 69%. Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever. Both of his parents are from Russia. European Goldens have a cancer mortality rate of about 36%. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation Lifetime Golden Retriever Study on cancer. They have told me there are a few other English Cremes in the study and they’re hoping to find out why there is such a disparity between the two types (having lived in three different European countries, I suspect environment and food are most likely). I feel it is my responsibility to ensure my pup dies from old age, not cancer so it is important to me to avoid even a breath of a link between an ingredient and cancer. Canola is one of those ingredients. This article: http://cancercompassalternateroute.com/diet/avoid-canola-oil/ will tell you more about the relationship between GMOs, rapeseed, canola oil and cancer. It’s not the only one, but it’s clear.

3. Garlic – One I didn’t mention, but there are enough conflicting views on it that I took time to look it up last year. Just like onions and chocolate, I don’t give my babies fresh garlic. I do however, add it to his diet as a garlic supplement because I believe that in the correct form and amount, it has benefits.

As to your most recent post regarding sources for raw food – I moved my answer over to the LBP topic at the raw forum since it’s more appropriate there. You can find it here: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33978 It’s only one of seven pages of topics on feeding raw that you’ll find helpful.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
In answer to your question from the Large and Giant Breed Nutrition forum about raw sourcing:

I decided a few weeks ago that the best diet for Mystery would be raw. Having made that decision, I didn’t think I should wait just because I didn’t have a local source for meat so I started pounding around the raw food thread and large breed raw thread. I asked questions about how to start, what to feed… I knew I wasn’t interested in freeze-dried or frozen patties – my boy is going to eat “manly” meat, where I could find a reliable, trustworthy online place to get meat and poultry and any other essential real food to get me through a search period. Based on recommendations here, I chose My Pet Carnivore (MPC).

Since I would have to wait for my first shipment, I headed to the grocery store, picked up a non-GMO, organic whole chicken as well as some meat with bones in them. I pulled out my German meat cleaver and a cutting board with grooves and discovered an expensive knife and cutting board does not make one a butcher. Next time I’m just going to give it to the meat department and tell them to hack it up for me.

Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list). I may be able to get half of a cow in a few weeks at $2/lb. So, I have a 20 cu.ft. freezer arriving on Saturday and I continue to look at local resources including a dairy farm where they usually put down male calves, as well as chicken, goat and other natural farmed animals. Until then, I’m happy using MPC for all of my meat. I received my second shipment from them today, thank goodness – twice what I ordered the first time and I feel better about the balance of foods. MPC sells a number of balanced grinds – chicken, tripe/organs/etc. They also sell fine ground meats (I assume for small dogs), as well as coarse grind.

So, the answer to your question is – yes, you can buy from a reputable market. It’s cheaper in the long run since you don’t have to pay high shipping fees to ensure frozen mean doesn’t thaw before it arrives. (If you live near MPC they have pickup points.) The first local meat market I called not only couldn’t tell me whether the meat they sell is GMO free but they seemed irritated that I asked. Not going there! I’m also looking for a co-op of folks who are feeding raw but that is turning out to be more difficult to find than I expected.

As for supplements, I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

In addition to all the help you’ll get here, if you go to mypetcarnivore.com, whether you intend to buy or not, they have some links to some great articles on feeding raw – right side, about half way down the homepage. If you sign up for Dogs Naturally Magazine, they email you a link to download their Raw Food Primer.

There are folks here who are much smarter about all of this than I am (which is why I’m here), and they have been really helpful during my transition to raw. Keep asking those questions!

[SnorkletsMom]

Hi! I have read most of this site and a lot of other sites, I have spoken to our vet…now I’m looking for opinions or tips for our puppies. They are 6 months old, one male, one female, probably 60 lbs +/- they are half Golden Retriever, half St. Bernard. Their breeder fed them Purina puppy chow, which I refused to continue. We have tried a few brands, some with terrible results. The best so far has been Purina Pro Plan Focus Large Breed Puppy. But as I’ve looked around, it does not seem to be a suggested good food. I’d like to find the best I can, but hopefully not the highest price, money is tight right now. Calcium, phosphorus, protein, etc. can be confusing after a while! Our vet is fine with the Purina, but I’d like your opinions. Also…should we be giving them any supplements? And exercise…a lot or not? (Vet said not) All tips are welcome, I’ve never had giant dogs before. Thanks!

[Newfs]

Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ?

[InkedMarie]

Hi Jeff,
It’s best to feed a variety of proteins, even in raw. So, next order, get a mixture. As for supplements, I don’t think you have to add much, I’d suggest salmon oil & eggs a couple time a week. Some give digestive enzymes & probiotics which aren’t necessary but sure can’t hurt. Darwin’s has good customer service, give them a call!

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
No one can tell you definitively what to feed your puppy. We all have opinions based on our limited or extensive research and experience. When we brought our first Golden home, we fed puppy food – I don’t remember exactly what but it was easily available in the commissary so probably just junk. She required double-hip surgery before she was two.

When we decided to add another Golden – Mystery, I spent two months researching large breed nutrition, even before we decided on him. I read every article that HDM has conveniently posted on page one here (though I found them independent of this site), created my own table of foods, listing proteins, fats, calcium/phosphorus ratios/percentages, grains/no grains and so on. Based on that initial research I chose a food. I continued my research, signed up for newsletters, magazines, etc., and eventually chose a different food. As my research continued, I switched my cats to better foods as well. And I continue researching ways to feed my babies the best ways possible.

I appreciate so much all the advice I get from everyone in the DogFoodAdvisor forums, but the decision to purchase food A or food B is ultimately mine. Any suggestions from anyone are not taken blindly – I still go to the manufacturer’s website, look at their ingredients, lookup an ingredient I’m not familiar with, check to make sure there are no known controversies or issues with those ingredients (for example: the link between rosemary extract and seizures in humans, canola oil and cancer, synthetic vs. natural supplement sources), where they come from, how they’re processed, what temp they’re cooked at. All of this is taken into account before I purchase anything.

Now, I understand if you don’t have that kind of time. But you’re here for a reason – you want to feed your dog the best that you possibly can (which is why you’re considering raw!). So, find a just bit of time to look at some of the kibble recommendations that folks have made. I haven’t seen anyone say that Purina or Iams or Science Diet or Royal Canin or Blue are acceptable foods so the recommendations you do find here are all going to be good to excellent choices. I’ve stated my preference a number of times – Orijen, but that doesn’t make Earthborn or Wellness or Canine Caviar bad foods. Open up a few separate browser windows and do a side-by-side comparison to see what you think is best, check Chewy.com prices and you’ll make the right decision for you and your pup.

Now, if you’re wanting to find out more about raw, there’s plenty of information here – I’m already smarter about feeding Mystery raw for the time I’ve spent asking questions and reading responses. But I’ve also signed up for a weekend-long web conference being hosted by DogsNaturallyMagazine.com at the end of this month called Raw Roundup. Experts in the field will be presenting any number of topics on feeding raw and I have started a list of questions to ask in case they are not addressed during the sessions.

You can do this!

[Lablubber]

Rick Rankin

So can somebody make it simple for me and please tell me on the kibble end of it. If you were just starting out with a lab puppy and wanted to feed him the best kibble… What is the best overall choice. Orijen, Acana, Annamaet, Earthborn Holistic, Go! Fit & Free, Wellness or Dr Something or whatever for a 13 week old Lab puppy. I have read to oblivion on what is best. I have read every persons articles about what is recommended and I am even more confused now and becoming quite desperate watching my grow and hopefully do well.

As I said I tried to switch over to a good food and switched to Blue Lg. Breed Puppy and then only to find out that it too was too high in calcium after all the 20 days of transitioning to another food.

I do plan to slowly work over to some raw diet when I feel knowledgeable enough to do so…Mainly on his evening meals and I have tried some of the stuff PattyVaughn recommend for him as well as adding it to his kibble as toppers to his food to see how he reacted to it and so far so good. But for me and my lack of knowledge, I am just afraid that to jump off completely in the Raw scene because you also need to know that I take this dog with me 24/7. He goes everywhere I go and I also take him to work with me as well. Plus he is already training hard every day with all of his retriever work and obedience training. So then with the very limited knowledge that I have on this subject and the conditions that I am involved in, a totally raw diet would almost be impossible for me to do right now….Plus I am afraid I would not have enough knowledge to give him and provided everything that he needs as far as supplementations that go along with it for a lg. breed growing puppy. Especially when I want to be extra careful on the calcium end of it and then again saying that… I also don’t want to under nourish him in anyway whatsoever either.

So could I just plead for someone’s mercy and wisdom in this situation and please recommend the best kibble for a 13 week old lab puppy and then if you don’t mind, share with me where the best place is to order it…. Because as most all of you warned me….My local pet stores carry very little healthy lg. breed puppy food and all the local vets carry is Science Diet and Royal Canin or something like that and when you read their ingredients, none of them meet the requirements…

So then…Could someone please come to my rescue and help someone in a pinch here, because I am down to about the last 8 # of the food that I have and so now would be the time to transition to another one. I have learned tons from all of you guys but for me time is of the essence because I want this pup to have the best I can get for him with the limited amount of knowledge that I do have on board.

Thanks Lablubber

[Shasta220]

I’m not exactly sure how much of the extra supplements you should add. Try maybe 1-2tsp? I’d start with using one product at a time, to see which one is/isn’t seeming to work. If the bully sticks seem to help, maybe cutting back on the kibble and adding some meat (raw or cooked) to his delicious-sounding doggie soup?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Saw the coconut oil issue and came to see what others were saying. Discovered a few great suggestions in the process!

Patty~
As always, I learn something new every time I read one of your posts. I’ve been damp dusting with water (I don’t care for oily sprays that seem to attract fur, not repel it), for years but never thought to add anything to my wet cloth. Do you think just adding a touch of lemon juice to the cloth would work as well as lemon oil?

Typhoon ~
Just to confirm what Sully’sMom said, Dogs Naturally Magazine also recommends starting with 1/4 teaspoon per 10 lbs to begin with.

My Mystery had a severe skin flaking problem when I first brought him home. Literally, a dense layer of skin in and outside his crate every morning. We tried omegas for a month with no difference noted, then it was a special shampoo (that turned out to have a carcinogenic ingredient in it), and the breeder suggested canola oil (more cancer, no thanks).

I came across this article: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/. I started giving Mystery about a teaspoon in the mornings only to be sure he didn’t have loose stool problems in the night. Within a few weeks his skin flaking had completely stopped. He’s about 60 lbs now and I’m giving him about a tablespoon (I eyeball the measurement), and because it seems to be enough, I still only give it in the mornings – he never did have any stool issues, thank goodness.

Coconut oil seems to have a variety of benefits and while I’m taking supplements (I can’t stand the texture of solid coconut oil), in the hopes it will help with my eczema, I wouldn’t give a supplement to Mystery. Shasta220’s recommendation to just get a jar of it is best, organic, extra virgin, cold pressed, and I would add non-GMO. You can see my review of the brand I use here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2U61OLT76XK5I/ref=pdp_new_read_full_review_link?ie=UTF8&page=1&sort_by=MostRecentReview#R1YWGCBPDX00JI

I’d like to emphasize Shasta220’s suggestion about giving LOCAL honey to help with allergies. We live in an area called Apple Valley, for obvious reasons – lots of apple farms, local apple festival every year…, so there are fruit stands everywhere. These are the best places to find local honey.

[Sharon Buchanan]

loobija and vaarde ~
You need to read the articles that HDM has posted on page one of this thread. If you’re going to feed dry to your large breed puppies, you need to be feeding a low calcium/phosphorus kibble. Those articles, will tell you why. If you don’t want to read all of them, at least read Dr. Susan Lauter’s paper (#1), Dr. Henry Baker’s paper (#3 on the list), as well as Dr. Karen Becker’s article and watch her video (#5).

HDM also posted a list of Large Breed Puppy food here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit, to make it easy for you to research the best LBP food for your dog (and wallet). You can also Google Large Breed Puppy Food to find more. Your puppy is worth a little bit of homework.

Look for a food that has a minimum calcium content of .8% with a maximum around 1.2% (and don’t get hung up on AAFCO standards for calcium – they’re still behind the power curve when it comes to LBP nutrition). HDM’s list only provides minimum calcium content, you’ll need to go to the manufacture’s website to see if they list the maximum – some don’t, call them if you’re considering their food.

vaarde – Dr. Clauder’s adult food for LB “junior” dogs contains maize (corn), corn meal, rice, beet pulp, powdered egg, mussel powder. Filler grains, sugars and in the case of those two powders, nothing but dust. They also use sodium selenite as a source of selenium when they could be using a natural source – selenium yeast. Compare those ingredients with NRG Maxim for large breeds, or Canine Caviar, or…

loobija – you have a puppy, not an adult dog. Do not feed your LBP adult dog food and be very careful about feeding your puppy any “all life stages” food as well. Please read those articles. There is a reason why you need to select a formula designed specifically for large breed puppies. I do not like Authority’s LBP formula for some of the same reasons I don’t like Dr. Clauder’s and their minimum calcium is 1.3% when that is higher than what I would consider as a maximum amount.

Personally, having read all the articles that HDM posted links to – and I found them independent of this fantastic forum, (be sure to thank her for making your research easier), I believe the closer you can stay to .8% calcium the better. LBP kibble formulas will have the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio (1.2:1).

Look for foods that have named meat “meals” (chicken meal, salmon meal, etc.) in many of the first five ingredients as possible. Avoid unnamed anything (meat meal, fish meal, poultry-by-product), grains and fillers (wheat, corn, glutens), and sugars and starches (beets, potatoes). Try to find foods with natural supplements and no preservatives. If you don’t don’t what an ingredient is, look it up. For example: menadione sodium bisulfite complex (synthetic vs. natural Vit K), sodium selenite (vs. selenium yeast).

Kibble is a mine field. Make sure you subscribe to DogFoodAdvisor’s recall alerts: /dog-food-recall-alerts/. You can also find a wealth of information regarding pet food manufacturing practices (what they’re doing right, mostly wrong, how the FDA and the AAFCO really aren’t concerned about what goes into your pet food, recalls, etc.), at truthaboutpetfood.com.

Finally, I would recommend you read just the few pages that have been started in the forums here on feeding raw to large breed puppies: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33708.

[Mom2Cavs]

I posted back in Sept. and wanted to update what I’m doing now that’s working. For about a month now the dogs have been eating Annamaet Option for their kibble. Before that it was Fromm Salmon a la Veg and that was working fine, too. I’ve been adding as a topper canned foods. Mostly Wellness, either 95% Salmon, Lamb or Beef and Beef Stew. I also use Instinct Healthy Weight cans and Mulligan Stew Salmon and Fromm 4Star Beef or Pork. I use enzymes and pre/probiotics each meal. The ones I rotate with are Fresh Digest, Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus, Vetri-Science Mega Probiotics. Lucy gets a Maitake mushroom supplement from Vetri-Science for her cancer. Sometimes, actually rarely, I’ll add in a 3/6/9 supplement from Springtime, Inc. They also get a Fresh Factor chew from Springtime, Inc. in the morning. Recently, I tried substituting the morning meal for premade raw, but after about a week Laverne started having mild pancreatitis symptoms so I’ll probably stop doing that for now….I’m thinking about doing 2 morning premade raw meals a week and try that, instead of every morning. Maybe Tues. and Fri. I’m also thinking of actually trying some Annamaet Lean kibble….I know it’s chicken based, but I just want to see how Laverne does on it. I should be able to tell rather quickly if it’s bothering her. If it does, the others can eat it with no problem. I would also like to try Victor kibble (we may have it locally soon). Dr. Tim’s looks great, but I just don’t know, yet, if I’m up to trying it.

[theBCnut]

Coconut oil for its antibacterial, antifungal, gut health, coat health, and a few other properties. I generally stay away from salmon oil and use herring, sardine, or anchovy oil instead because of the heavy metal contamination worry with larger fish. I always feed a supergreen or 3, but I rotate through a few different ones. I always give bee pollen for immune health. And I regularly give a vit E supplement that has all 8 types of vit E. I make my own veggie supplement and I always rotate veggies for it as well as throw in a handful of some kind of berries for antioxidants.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thank RDM and Patty.

I guess I should didn’t explain well enough. I used the veggies as an example. Since that proportion was off from what I had read elsewhere I wondered if it meant I was mis-reading the recipe and should’ve been dividing the meat by three but using other veggies/supplements in the AM meal ‘per dog’ which would then affect the calcium etc. But it sounds like I’ve been following them correctly so I feel better on that score. The Becker diets do seem heavy on the veggies but until I really feel better about my own calculations, I feel I need to follow some recipes. And trying to figure out amounts is still a struggle. But thanks to this forum I can at least ask questions and feel confident in the answers!

[RescueDaneMom]

Sue’s Zoo,

I’m not 100% sure but I think that HDM doesn’t feel the need to give her dogs a lot of fruits/veggies. I think that’s why there’s a big difference in the amount of veggie mix in HDM’s recipes versus Dr. Becker’s. I don’t think you’re going to throw off the calcium/phosphorous with the differing amount of veggies. I imagine you could feed them more or less veggies depending how their systems handle it and if they like it or not. The main component of calcium/phosphorous in the meat/bone. I believe the supplements in HDM’s recipes are for 3 adult dogs in the 65-75 pound range (I think, going by memory here). If you are unsure about the amounts of supplements you should be giving for your dogs’ weights just ask. I know I wrote it all down once.

Hopefully more people will chime in. I’ve only been doing raw for about 6 months now so I still consider myself new at it. Good luck!

[mountainhound]

I’ve been feeding raw for about 5 years (mostly pmr and some premade). I’m always rotating protein sources since my dog doesn’t have any digestive issues and tolerates it well. I also like to add fresh whole foods for variety which depends what I have on hand. I tend to stick with certain staples though that I add daily which includes salmon oil for omega 3’s and seameal blend for trace minerals. I also recently started using olewo carrots and beets which have been a huge hit and seem to benefit his skin/coat and prevent counter surfing. He also gets fresh egg couple times a week for additional vitamins or as a treat.

Curious to see what other raw feeders supplement with. Any product you absolutely swear by and why do you use it?

[Sue’s Zoo]

So I’ve been doing this for about 2-1/2 weeks now and I’m still concerned that I’m not balancing the calcium/phosphorus ratio for my large breed pups. Trying to follow (as closely as possible) a couple of HDMs meal plans from early in this topic but at various times I’m substituting which makes me uncomfortable. Anyway, one question I have, after a lot of reading, etc., particularly Dr. Becker’s book, is whether or not I’m following the earlier recipes correctly. HDM lists a morning mix, she divides between three dogs. Is it just the meat that is divided or the whole thing? The reason I ask is that the veggie mix is quite a bit lower than Dr. Becker’s suggested diets if I divide one cup between 3 dogs per day. So is it one cup per dog per day? And if that’s true for veggies, what about other supplements?

This would be so much easier if my dogs were adults and at a relatively stable weight, without special large breed and puppy needs :/ Every time I think I have a good grasp and things are going well, I just come up with more questions.

Thanks in advance.

[mountainhound]

If you like the vet, next time just say “I’ve done my research and I feel that this is the best nutrition for my dog, but thanks for your concern”. If the vet keeps bugging you, switch vets. I also agree with Patty, try some type of seameal supplement, I use solid gold brand mostly and occasionally swap around with couple other brands like dogzymes norwegian kelp

[Leah12345]

Thanks TheNaturalDog! I will research Merrick. Also, can you explain the canned food like pumpkin to aid digestion? I keep reading about supplementing with canned pumpkin or sweet potatoes when I am scanning threads, but don’t have any information. What is the purpose of doing it? Do I add it to her food when I feed her or is it separate? Is there a ratio or rule of thumb for how much to give her? I am guessing the pre-and pro-biotics will have directions so I am not so worried about that. Thanks for the guidance. Being a dog-mama is trickier than I remembered. Leah

[gmcbogger38]

Years ago we had a Jack Russell who had terrible skin problems. We tried Dinovite and it completely cleared up her issues. Now, I have a Saint Bernard who has been having chronic ear problems and she has a odor that won’t completely go away when bathing her. Now she hasn’t had a bath in a couple months and she smells even worse. I have tried expensive high quality grain free and potato free dry foods and even raw (homemade with no grains, etc) and nothing has worked for her. I am finishing up a grain inclusive food right now and so far I have noticed improvements in her from being on grain free (seems opposite of what should happen). I will be putting my dogs on Victor dog food, since I have read some good reviews about it. I will give the food about a couple months and if I haven’t noticed her ears and eyes clearing up I have thought about trying Dinovite again. Now, my hesitation with it is the cost so I am wondering if anybody else has a suggestion of a supplement similar to Dinovite that might be cheaper please let me know. Thanks.

[Mom2Cavs]

I would think that any high quality food that agrees with the dog would be good. If you are doing agility you might want to also consider supplementing with glucosamine and chondroitin for joint support. You could look at Acana Regionals, or other foods that are for sporting dogs like Annamaet, Dr. Tim’s. Earthborn has good food, as well as Nutrisource. In fact, if it were me, I’d look at this list of 4 and 5* rated foods, find those that meet my criteria, that I could easily get, and pick a few to try. Good luck to you! I know others will respond soon with their suggestions. 🙂

[ExplEngineer]

Thank you for your answers. Yes, I agree that both portion, and intake must be controlled in these larger [OK, Giant] breeds of dogs.

I am curious as to why there is an objection to “Hot Dogs” as the supplemental meat? And this is an honest inquiry, not a challenge or in any manner intended as being disrespectful. I am just a bit surprised that an all meat product of turkey, beef and chicken (I avoid the ones that contain pork, as it is my understanding that pork can be a trifle difficult for a dog to digest). When the steer is headed for the freezer, there is always ground beef (minimal fat content) or the type of chunks of beef that I use in chili or stew. When I come up on them in the supermarket I will pick up chicken breasts or thighs to add to their food, and of course the lads love cheese omelets for their weekend breakfast (they were given raw eggs in their prior home and seemed to thrive on them, but I hate to leave any raw egg product down on the floor for more than just a very few minutes while the cooked eggs remain edible for the better part of any hour. I do have to admit to throwing in an occasional strip of bacon as a treat, but it is not in any way included in their dietary schedule or as meeting any portion of their daily requirements for nutrition.

Actually, on occasion, I will even eat one or two of the hot dogs that I feed to them so I don’t see that there should be a qualitative or a food safety issue, but I assume that there must be something about them about which I am neither aware of, or I would not even consider feeding them to the lads. Trust me on that, both of my kids tell me that if for some reason they are involved in an accident, their last and most important wish is to come back reincarnated as my dog (& they are both >30, college educated, and in good career positions so they are neither deprived,nor underprivileged).

I am in my 47th year of owning and raising Mastiffs, but I still feel the need to seek out better ways of doing so. Now being semi-retired, they are with me virtually 24/7/365, and members of the family and the last thing that I would ever want to do is to raise them in a sub-optimal environment.

Tomorrow is annual inoculation day for my older one, and I shall be using a new, but highly recommended Veterinarian, and I will make a point of having this discussion with him as well, but as with physicians and psychologists, all health care professionals are equally skilled in all ancillary facets of animal health and as with human patients, a wise physician will consult with a dietician in constructing an omnibus treatment team, so I looking forward to integrating all available sources of information, and their recommendations, into our daily routine.

TIA to both of you for your input, and for adding resources to my knowledge base.

[A.Sandy]

Hi,
What You have is giant breeds lol! The biggest mistake is overfeeding this breed because they suppose to look bulky, but the truth is it’s bad for their hips it puts stress on them.
and please STOP feeding that grocery store junk it will mess your pups up. You can feed a all life stages food for both just feed according to energy level to avoid overweight pets. look in the 4 and 5 star pet foods here at dog food advisor. Try something with no corn, wheat or soy and nothing from china(including treats) Always portion control to prevent from their bones growing too fast and having bowed legs.(believe me I went through that with my dane when he was younger)try buying from a feed store or sometimes hard ware stores have great deals on great food. Avoid vitamin/mineral and calcium supplements that will affect their nutrient absorption. good luck!

-Ana
pet nutrition expert/advisor
@pupfacts
pupcatnutrition.com