[Shawna]

Hi Pittiemama,

Hopefully I can help you here. My puppy had kidney disease right from birth. It is believed her kidneys just weren’t able to develop (she was the sixth puppy, the runt, for a 12 pound Chihuahua / Boston Terrier mix). The breeder had to had feed her, due to a collapsing trachea, raw goats milk and egg whites to keep her alive. She had symptoms (excessive drinking and urine) at just six weeks of age. She was officially diagnosed at one year and given a year to live. She lived to eight years and seven months old and then passed for reasons not directly related to kd.

A little background on me, my father is a naturopath. I did consult with him when I got Audrey’s diagnosis but being raised by him, I was able to mostly formulate the plan of attack myself.

Audrey’s numbers, when she was diagnosed, were right around the same as your babies — and she lived almost seven more very very healthy and happy years. It could happen for your baby too.

The first thing I would suggest is to keep up on his dental health. You won’t want to use anesthesia for dental cleanings so RIGHT now start doing anything and everything you need to keep his teeth clean. It was actually bacteria likely from a dental infection that got into Audrey’s kidneys and ultimately took her life. Use fresh garlic in his meals. Use an enzyme supplement in his water, Dr. Melissa Shelton’s essential oil called Dog Breath is very effective and a drop can be added to his water dish or you can mix with water in a spray bottle and spray right on teeth. http://www.animaleo.info/dog-breath.html I would also recommend a product made by Green Pasture’s called Infused Coconut Oil. It’s high in vitamin K2 (which has been shown to have great benefit for teeth) and has other wonderful nutrients. All of my dogs get it but I found it when Audrey’s teeth were already needing some extra support. 🙁 http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm

I HIGHLY recommend Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a food based supplement that “feeds” the kidneys but also has a product called a protomorphogen (which is the RNA/DNA of the kidney cell) that helps prevent inflammation to the kidneys. It is the one supplement she never went without. I also used their SP Canine Hepatic Support when I thought she needed a little liver support — helps with allergies too. I also used their Cataplex B and C as water soluble vitamins may need to be added due to the large amounts being urinated out.

ONLY give filtered or other forms of “clean” water. I would avoid tap water at all cost. Lower sodium mineral waters with good amounts of calcium and magnesium have been shown to be beneficial for dogs with kd. I like Evian water because it is high in calcium bicarbonate. I didn’t give it all the time but made sure (at least in the beginning) to give it regularly — I got lax in the later years and I truly believe Audrey would still be with me if I had not. She was doing so well though and my life got busier..

I HIGHLY recommend getting some Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotic and Garden of Life Acacia Fiber supplements as well. These are used as “nitrogen traps” and as BUN begins to build up the bacteria consuming the fiber will cause some of the nitrogen to be routed through the bowels freeing up the kidneys from having to deal with them. I gave probiotic foods (like green tripe, fermented veggies etc) frequently but when I noticed she was feeling a little lethargic, depressed, not feeling well etc I assumed nitrogen was building up and I’d give her the probiotics and prebiotic for several days. Always worked like a charm. Will be quite important as the disease progresses and he starts getting symptoms. This also allows for a higher protein diet. The protein doesn’t damage the kidneys but it does, due to BUN, add to symptoms. Oh, I forgot to mention. Audrey ate a HIGH protein raw diet up until the last six to eight weeks of her life. Audrey never had a problem with phosphorus but as your puppies disease progresses you may have to watch the amount of phosphorus in the foods you are feeding. The golden rule is to limit phosphorus but it’s obviously not always necessary. That said, phosphorus can damage the kidneys if it gets too high in the blood so either monitor it or feed the right amounts of phos for the stage your pup is at. Right now while phosphorus isn’t as big an issue, I like the Honest Kitchen Brave. To that I would add a raw egg a few times per week and give Answer’s raw goat milk regularly as well. Both raw eggs (if not whipped etc) and raw milk can easily increase the “master antioxidant” in the body called glutathione. This will obviously help out everything. Later, when phos needs to be more restricted, you may not be able to give the whole egg (as the yolk is higher in phos).

Supplements —
1. Organic Turmeric is good as it is anti-inflammatory but it also is anti-fibrotic (prevents scar tissue). Audrey didn’t tolerate turmeric well so she didn’t get it but in general it would be quite helpful for a dog with KD.
2. Spirulina, chlorella and pumpkin seed oil are all high in chlorophyll and supplies lots of other nutrients. Dogs with KD can be at risk for anemia and chlorophyll is awesome for anemia.
3. Burdock root is a prebiotic and of the herb world is considered to be the “blood cleaner”.
4. Milk thistle helps spare glutathione and is a good detoxer.
5. Distilled water (given once in a while) and food grade activated charcoal are good detoxers too.
6. Copaiba essential oil is great for pains and inflammation plus more. A therapeutic grade, like Dr. Sheltons, is the only kind to use on pets. Can be given in food or rubbed into the skin over the kidneys as an example.
7. Braggs brand apple cider vinegar can help with indigestion or tummy issues. Audrey didn’t need it often but when she did I would mix it 50/50 with water and syringe feed it. She hated it but within seconds would burp and feel better.
8. Therapeutic grade peppermint oil, ginger extract or Dr. Shelton’s GI Joe essential oil work great for tummy issues as well. I got sick to my tummy and used the GI Joe to help. Kept me from vomiting and soothed my tummy.
9. Learn about essential oils if you don’t already know. If you have a Facebook account, join AnimalEO’s page and sign up for Dr. Shelton’s Friday Fun Facts. I didn’t know about them early enough to be much use with Audrey (specifically Dr. Shelton’s oils) but I sure wish I had.

DON’T do ANY more vaccinations – not even rabies if you can at all avoid. Audrey was legally exempted from having to get the rabies vaccine for life. She wasn’t protected either as she only got her first shot (at six months) before diagnosis was made. No heartworm, flea/tick or anything like that either.

I know there’s things I’m forgetting but hopefully this is enough to give you a good jumping off point.. 🙂 Hugs to you and your baby boy!!!!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Shawna.

[Pittiemama]

So I’ve never posted here before but have read and looked around a lot. I have a fair amount of knowledge regarding canine health and have had dogs for 25 years. Right now I’m facing a sad situation. My 5 year old rescue American Staffordshire Terrier has kidney failure. I adopted him nearly 2 years ago from our local shelter without knowing he had health issues but honestly I would’ve taken him no matter what, you know how that it is. I fell in love on sight! Anyway, he’s always had a questionable USG and it was at 1.019 when I adopted him as I had baseline blood work and urine done right after getting him. It fluctuates between 1.014-1.019. Since it wasn’t super low all the time and his other blood work looked normal no one really knew but had suspicions, as he was a big water drinker, much more so than my previous dogs. Now I’ve had him almost two years and his creatinine is creeping up. His BUN is 23 and creatinine is 2.2, it was 1.7 a month ago and 1.4 when I got him so it was never really, really low as the high end of normal from our laboratory is 1.6. His BUN is fine so far, thankfully. He had an ultrasound for a UTI he had about 8 months or so ago. It showed a kidney that looked a little weird but nothing to write home about, needless to say he a urinalysis, culture and a couple of rounds of antibiotics to kick it and be sure that if it was a pylonephritis the antibiotics would kill all the little bacteria that may be hiding, this was a suspicion as his creatinine was creeping up. If you looked at him, you wouldn’t even know he had an issue. He’s beautiful with a gorgeous coat, good weight, eats like a champ, good energy for a big, lazy pittie 🙂

Anyway, long story kind of short, here I sit broken hearted. He is a lovely animal with a ton of life ahead but I know how these things can go. He also has allergies so prescription diet isn’t the answer and you know it has some ingredients that I’m not thrilled about but the diets have their place and can be very important (this is solely my opinion that I don’t wish to debate at all nor pass judgement on anyone really as it’s not even an option.)

I’m very fortunate have an amazing team of veterinary professionals whom I know both professionally and personally who I love and deeply respect in my corner which is worth it’s weight in gold.

Here are my questions to you all, have any of you used supplements to support kidney function? He’s currently not taking any. Food? He eats dehydrated food, Brave by Honest Kitchen and really loves it. Have you worked with a Naturopath for kidney disease? I worked with a herbalist for one of my pitties many years ago who had mast cell cancer. Along with my vet, this may helped by dog live for 21 months instead of the 3 months we were given with him so I’ve seen how it can really help prolong a healthy, happy life. I have also worked with an acupuncturist for skeletal pain in a couple of my dogs. I’ve, happily, not had the experience working with a Naturopath for kidney disease until possibly now so frankly my experience in that arena is limited to the more traditional western side.

It’s long but if you got to this point, thanks and I look forward to hearing about your experiences 🙂

[Tanja A]

My ten-month old cockapoo is such a picky eater and is not a fan of commercial dog food. I began preparing homemade food for him but I want to make sure he’s getting all the nutrition he needs. My vet recommended using Balance It mixed in his homemade food but the strong smell of the powder makes his food unappetizing and he won’t eat it. I found a liquid supplement called Licks in various formulations, one of which is a multi-vitamin and feeding aid. He LOVES the taste of this supplement so it’s been really easy to administer – he simply licks up every drop, hence the name of the product. I was wondering if anyone has used this product and if so, what is your opinion? My vet is not familiar with this product line and I haven’t learned much about this on the Internet. I want to be comfortable giving this to him. Any information about this supplement would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[El]

Hi Kelly P

I would recommend these 2 books as part of your research into feeding a properly balanced raw diet to your pup.

“Ok I have not yet gotten my puppy I have about 4 weeks still. She will grow up to be around 100lbs, so I’ll probably feed her about 2lbs a day.”

Here are the feeding guidelines from Primal, I think they are pretty accurate. Puppies need more than 2% of their body weight daily.

Feeding Percentages
1.5% Weight Loss
2.0% Non-Active
2.5% Maintain Weight **
3.0% Slight Weight Gain
3.5% Significant Weight Gain
4.0% Kittens/Puppies (8 weeks-1 year)
4.5-8.0% Kittens/Puppies (4-8 weeks)
4.0-8.0% Pregnant/Lactating

“We will be training too with treats so I need to be sure they level each other out. I have done a lot of research as I’ve been preparing for the past 1-2 years. What I found so far is the following.
Feeding anti-oxidants or some sort of cooked veggies is a good idea.”

I would puree the veggies. Cauliflower, broccoli, spinach in moderation, green beans, peas in moderation…

“Feeding organic eggs, shell and all, is good at least once a week. Egg shells provide a lot of calcium.”

I would suggest free-range organic eggs. I know that people feed finely ground egg shells as a calcium source, but I don’t know about feeding whole egg shells. I would do a little more research specifically on the calcium requirements of large breed puppies if I were you. She will be getting calcium from bones, egg shells, spinach and ?

Feeding a whole fish once a week is good because of the oil it provides, be sure not to feed tuna because of the high mercury levels. Cooked Tripe is great and so is a some coconut oil. I figure I can saute the veggies in coconut oil.

In general, I would feed small fish, they usually have softer bones and less toxic buildup. I would not cook the tripe. One of the benefits of feeding “Raw Green Tripe” are the enzymes, and any processing or cooking will destroy those enzymes.

“As far as percentages I have read a few different things but my research has come up with the below.
Version 1
75% Muscle/skin (i.e chicken breast)
10% Edible Bone
5% Liver
5% Non liver organs
5% Anti-oxidants/Veggies
Version 2
50% Meaty Bones
35% Muscle/Skin (i.e chicken breast)
5% Liver
5% Non liver organs
5% Anti-oxidants/Veggies”

I feed my dogs a homemade lightly cooked diet. Version one looks pretty good. Since I lightly cook my guys food I would replace the 10% edible bone with 5% more pureed veggies and 5% supplements to balance out the diet.

“My main questions are about bones.”

This is good because I see bones as the riskiest part of your diet plan and I would carefully consider both sides of the argument so that you can make the most informed choice possible. Also, regarding Wolves and bones, research has shown that larger pieces of bones are excreted from wolves wrapped in the fur of the animal they ate, maybe as a way of protecting their insides from the bone fragments.

Good Luck with the new addition to your family 😉

[EmilyAnn]

Hi All!

We FINALLY successfully got all the weight off our dachshund mix (it was TORTURE). Our vet suggested we supplement the dog food with pumpkin (or green beans, but he hates green beans) while he’s losing weight, so he has been getting a rotational raw frozen commercial diet with roughly 1-1 1/2 tbsp pumpkin at every meal. I would like to diversify his diet with some other vegetables, and here are my questions:

1. What are the best Low Glycemic Vegetables to feed a dog on a daily basis?
2. Is it safe to continue to give him pumpkin every day?

He also get fish oil every day and coconut oil every other day.

Thanks for your time!
Emily

[Cory C]

Hi I just joined and saw your post. I’m not sure about all of those supplements. I have four little Yorkies that have been on a raw a diet and doing exceptionally well for about four years now. The only supplements that I give them other than the correct amount of raw they should be on is Alaskan Fish Oil and Cranimals for their teeth and other health benefits. I have tried so many other products for their teeth but this is the best by far.

I truly think that a raw diet is so beneficial for their overall health and immune system.

I’m sorry I don’t know about the other supplements you mentioned but have seen many of Dr. Becker’s videos on Youtube and think she’s so knowledgeable.

Take care and I hope others respond to your thread as well

[Keira L]

Sorry just read over that, 😁and didn’t mention I have a calcium supplement powder that we have for her but not using as much until we completely ween her off the commercial food, which has calcium in it 👌
We get more results on Wednesday, it will be 3 months until she was first diagnosed. I m really anxious about it even though she herself is just great! Energetic , happy … It’s the tests that are that dark cloud . But positive thoughts X ❤️

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Keira L.

[JeffreyT]

Congratulations!

We have maltese and rotate between the freeze dried and dehydrated 5 star foods. Good rule of thumb is to add 1-2 tablespoons of water to each patty or brick. These foods are easy to break into smaller pieces, nutrient dense, species appropriate and healthier than canned.
The following are in our rotation.
Primal
Stella and Chewy (and their treats)
Dogs for the Earth (one of their favorites)
Orijen (and treats)
Stewarts Bison
Dr. Harveys
Honest Kitchen (we purchase their sample packets and use in their rotation)
Nutrisca
Northwest Naturals
Chewy.com has a lot of these foods

We also feed Tru Dog, Vital Essentials and Only Natural Niblets but I would avoid feeding to a tiny puppy.

I don’t like regular kibble because it’s so overly processed… plus mine don’t like it. The only dry type food they get is air dried from Real Meat Food Co, Only Natural Max Air Dried or Ziwi Peak. Meats are grass fed, free range, gmo/anti bitotic/hormone free. I keep this under 25% of their diet due to lack of moisture. They love air dried.
http://shop.realmeatpet.com/Introduction-Dog-Cat-Food-Trial-3-Pack-FD3PACK.htm

We also do some home cooking and use Dr. Harveys finely ground premix.

I highly recommend reading Scared Poopless which is specifically for small dogs…excellent info on how to avoid cancer and other diseases.

Also, Dr. Karen Becker’s newsletter is very informative. She offers great nutrition info and I use many of the supplements she suggests. I would definitely think about adding probiotics and enzymes to meals for optimum digestion and immune support, and to avoid stomach upset as you transition and rotate new foods.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/

Good luck.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by JeffreyT.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by JeffreyT.

[Jenn H]

I heard back from Solid Gold again today. They have been nothing less than forthcoming as far as I can tell.
After the 2012 recall they began implementing the “Positive Release” program. Which means they have an independent third party test a sample from every single batch and await for negative results before distribution.

I feel good about adding this to the rotation. Especially for the puppy. It’s almost impossible to find a large breed puppy food that doesn’t go over 1.5% calcium.

As for their supplements…they come from a company in CA that specializes in supplements. I haven’t really put a lot of effort into finding all the details on this side of the business because I don’t use a lot of their supplements and those aren’t usually recalled.

Hope this helps anyone considering Solid Gold.

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to ask some advice of you knowledgeable people! Over the course of 5 months we have successfully made the switch to an entirely raw, homemade diet. With the exception of some confusion with Vitamin E and Fish Oil supplementation, I feel pretty good about her diet being balanced! Thanks for all the advice you all have offered so far. In conjunction with Dr. Karen Becker’s book, I feel confident she’s getting the nutrition she needs.

Anyhow-

I am confused. In place of krill oil or fish oil my 60 lb active dog has been getting one large raw whole sardine per day at the evening meal, which makes 7 full sardines a week. These are from Hare Today Gone Tomorrow. Is that too many?

Second question is- how much Vitamin E do I supplement her with? Do I need to fiddle some more with my amounts in order to get the ratio of fish oil to Vitamin E properly in order?

I have already placed an order for Mercola’s Spirugreen Superfood and Dr. Harvey’s Herbal Multivitamin and Mineral Supplement. Would the Vitamin E be included in the Vitamin Supplement?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Jenn H]

Wendy that was an incredibly kind response.
Admittedly I sometimes get discouraged and angry when I think about the lifestyles and feeding of the dogs we had growing up and how hearty and healthy they were compared to the dogs I’ve had as an adult.
The dogs I had growing up ate food from the market and lived outside pretty much 24/7/365 and all but 2 lived on the east coast. (Not my choice. They would’ve lived inside and come everywhere with me. They were never just pets/working dogs in my mind.)
Now we know more about nutrition and treat our dogs as family and appreciate the truly wonderful beings they are.
I spend hours every week looking for the exact right food, treats, supplements, activities, etc to extend their life with quality, health and happiness. Sometimes it seems all for not.
Eventually I come to my senses and know that it’s all worth it and to stop fretting and enjoy them now.

[ovcharka]

I’ve had my dogs on homemade for years and they’re incredibly healthy. Get a strong meat grinder (at least 1hp), I use LEM #22. Grind up whole roaster chicken, bones and all. Remove some of the skin & fat first. Also grind hard boiled eggs, shells too. Get a good food processor to puree a variety of veggies, including leafy greens (I use kale). Add some ground flax seed (coffee grinder works here) and some powdered/granular kelp. I also add oatmeal, but that’s optional. I use no synthetics, no supplements. I make big batches and freeze. I have the healthiest dogs on the planet!

[Jenn H]

As with most things follow their lead. Waiting until 6 months was just the advice I had been given by vets, my dog food merchant, other people more experienced than me. Figured it can’t hurt. He was being fed a much better food than he was weened onto and it was agreeing with him. “If it ain’t broke…”
However, if the food suddenly seems to be less agreeable then by all means find something else.
Even when my dogs are puppies I give them tiny amounts of other things that they’ be given throughout their lives. Pumpkin, goat milk (which he was supplemented with as a puppy anyway), green beans, carrots, bananas, chicken liver, etc.
Diarrhea loves puppies so I always have the right probiotics on hand.

After 30+ years of having GSDs I have learned to take in all the advice & info from those I trust and ultimately go with MY gut. No 2 dogs are exactly the same. Even if they are littermates and raised similarly.

When transitioning I take forever. Usually at least 2 wks. Every single day all the dogs get pumpkin. Since adding that I haven’t had any case of diarrhea. Not from the pup or my dog that has Lyme which has reeked havoc on her body and the antibiotics for it had caused a lot of GI issues.

To sum up this ridiculously long post…
Follow your dog’s lead.
Always have probiotics and pumpkin at the ready.
Transition slowly.

[Jenn H]

I heard from Solid Gold yesterday. They were so prompt and forthcoming in their answers. That’s huge to me.
Before I share where everything is made, I think it’s important to let you know that they test samples from every batch prior to distribution. The tests are done by an independent third party.
I just asked how long they have had this practice in place.
When Diamond has had recalls I discovered Solid Gold has also voluntarily recalled their foods despite testing negative for salmonella. Again I think that’s huge. They are willing to err on the side of caution even though it’s monetarily costly.
I cannot believe how much research I have to do these days go avoid feeding my dogs something that may harm them.
Onto the answers…
Solid Gold Manufacturers:
dry dog food distributed from Diamond in Missouri
-Wolf King
-Wolf Cub
-Hund-N-Flocken
-Wee Bits
-Buck Wild
-Lil Boss
-Star Chased
-Sunday Sunrise
**all other dry dog foods and their dry cat foods are distributed from Crosswind in Kansas**
all canned foods are distributed by Simmons in NJ
treats from Mountain Country in OK
-Cinna-bones
-Cinna-bits
treats from Mountain County in Utah
-all jerky treats
****I think it’s important to mention that most of the recalls were from the South Carolina plant.****
I am awaiting a reply as to when they began implementing their independent testing and where the supplements are manufactured/distributed.

I am as convinced as I can be that Solid Gold is proactive in preventing illness from their foods. I’d feel loads better if they stopped using Diamond all together.

[Shawna]

Hi Keira,

So sorry to hear about your baby!!

Diagnosed as stage 4 but has no symptoms other than urinating inappropriately? That’s odd. It would be really helpful to know the results of the original blood panel (before starting the prescription diet) when discussing foods and supplements. As the BUN and creatinine get more elevated you need to start limiting phosphorus (as it can build up in the system and damage the kidneys) and protein (as it contributes to symptoms – but NOT to damaging the kidneys)). Example – in the later stages of the disease egg yolks should be increasingly limited because of the higher phosphorus content in them. Ask you vet for a copy of your pup’s blood work if you don’t already have it and then let us know the values.

Nitrogen trapping is helpful at any stage of renal failure but becomes the most noticeably beneficial when you start seeing symptoms – vomiting, inappetance, possibly lethargy or depression etc. In order to create a nitrogen trap you absolutely need a probiotic (however I’m not sure which bacteria is involved in nitrogen trapping so I recommend using one with a WIDE variety of beneficial microbes – one like Garden of Life Primal Defense (human product)). When my Audrey was diagnosed with KD at age one (she was also given a year to live but lived to just shy of age nine) I tried multiple different fiber sources (which are also considered prebiotics – feed the microbes in the gut). Some of the prebiotics (such as apple and grapefruit pectin or the fiber in the grain barley) had a negative impact – the pectins made her symptoms worse and she had a food sensitivity to the barley. I ended up using acacia fiber for her from age one and half(ish) to when she passed. Garden of Life has an acacia fiber product as well but NOW brand makes one and there are a few others.

“Standard Process Renal Support” is the one supplement that my girl NEVER did without. It helps in many many many ways including giving the kidneys the nourishment they need to preventing inflammation from damaging the kidneys further. The Standard Process brand have specific products (called protomorphogens) that help with inflammation. There are other things I used for Audrey or would recommend – such as turmeric bombs / balls, Evian bottle water (lower in sodium then some others and a type of calcium very easily used by the body), activated charcoal, spirulina, chlorella and so on.

Your current diet doesn’t have a source of calcium listed which is VERY important.. If you can give us her actual info from the blood panel we can more easily recommend the right diet for you.

[Deanna S]

Has anyone ever checked the analysis and credentials of Healthy Dogma products available online and home store in Lake Orion, MI?

[Keira L]

Hey there, I have boxer called Lola, she was diagnosed with congenital renal failure 2 months ago, she is at stage 4, she turns 2 in feb so she is a bubba ❤️
She is not sick, still energetic, very very hungry , we just noticed her weeing in the night and it got progressively worse, to where she was weeing every night. Since a diet change she is a lot better, maybe has a little accident 2-3 times a week at the most.
Our vets gave us hills KD and pretty much just said there’s nothing you can do just give her a happy life for what she has left?? They gave her 1 yr or more , prob won’t make it to 5.
No supplements, no advice or any other information, we asked a million questions and did our research and asked them about raw and supplements etc which they didn’t really like I don’t think. We were really sad about the lack of help, as help or advice/information, as we have loved our vets to date.
Our second vet visit after upping her food a bit she put on weight which I though was great, 2kg I thought. But I still feel our vets feel like there is no hope, am I crazy for thinking that there is?? And that there are some positives surrounding her at the moment.
-energy-appetite-weight gain

I have been researching endlessly, it s very overwhelming, I have decided to go onto a raw /vegetable diet with supplements, again very overwhelming as there are a lot of options and conflicting information.
I wanted to know some advice on good veggies for her? We were adding sweet potatoe, carrots green beans- egg yolk and lean hamburger mince to her diet. I opted for lean meat as she had pancreatitis as a very young pup and heard that they shouldn’t have high fat after suffering from that.
Raw chicken breast good option?
Anyway I love my girl so much I would love some ideas on food to give her? Any advice for stage 4 renal failure??
She is now getting renal support, fish oil, coq10, pro and prebiotic – and was looking get her on a gentle fibre as I was researching nitrogen trapping. Does that conflict with pre and probiotics??
Sorry I’m typing fast hope this makes sense haha
Any positive stories or advice would be amazing!
Thank you so much :)))
Keira 😀😀😀

[Howard J]

UPDATE: So Coco is now 16lbs. She lost 3.2lbs in just over a month. We have been giving her supplements, including Pancreatrophin PMG and an Enteric powder as well. We still feed her boiled chicken and/or beef with rice occasionally. However, around a week ago we have been feeding her Honest Kitchen Zeal meal and she really likes it. She also has a super amount of energy, she is a completely different dog!

There’s a problem. Her stools are back to normal, they are formed and brown, yet, I noticed after a rainstorm that her poop seemed to still have all of the pieces of food found in the zeal meal. It’s as if she is not absorbing the nutrients. I’m not sure though. She also has blocked anal sacs, so we are trying to figure that one out.

[anonymously]

I have been using this product (dry and canned) for 4 years now for 3 dogs (2 with issues)
with good results.

Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea http://www.chewy.com/dog/dogswell-nutrisca-grain-free-salmon/dp/35033

Salmon, Menhaden Fish Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Salmon Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Eggs, Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Carrots, Cranberries, Apricots, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Iron Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Rosemary Extract

PS: It looks like chewy carries the dog food you mentioned http://www.chewy.com/dog/victor-yukon-river-salmon-sweet/dp/120706

[zcRiley]

Purchase a small bag of ZiwiPeak lamb from Chewy.com. Once you get it, start feeding it immediately. Stop everything else, the Purina, the additions, the antibiotics, the supplements. Your pup was just born and her system is being overwhelmed, plain & simple. Make sure she doesn’t chew or swallow the ice cubes. After 2 weeks, go to another vet, the other one should be fired. Keep her warm & have lots of play time. I cured a dog of crystals I was baby sitting this way. Plus my own pups used to have a slew of issues the vet couldn’t help with.

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Andrew B,

Thank you for the advice. We have now successfully moved to 100% raw (prey model 80/10/10 with added veggies, whole food supplements and oils), and I have seen a great improvement in her weight. She is slowly putting more on and is back up to a healthy 60 pounds. A recent vet visit confirmed her weight is in a very healthy range so I am hoping we continue to have more success! You are right about the salmon, however. Healthy fats have helped us in our weight gaining journey. She’s a huge sardine fan 😛 Thanks for all the help!

[Cotons mom]

I am looking for a well balanced, easy to make raw diet recipe for my cotons. They both get primal, S&C, Vital and I want to learn to make it myself. Suggestions on where to get whatever supplements that need to be added would be also be great. I have a meat grinder so at least I have one thing going toward this adventure ;.))

Thanks

[anonymously]

Ask your vet if a prescription med would be helpful, they are often used in stubborn cases.
I’m not talking about supplements or otc meds.
It would depend on the type of stones, of course, and requires a prescription from your dog’s vet. For example: Uroeze, Allopurinol…..

[anonymously]

There is NO magic supplement. The trick is to add water to each meal 3-4 small meals per day soaked in water, don’t measure, just fill the small bowl, the dog will lap it up to get to the food.
The dog must be taken out to void (pee) ideally every 2 hours during the day. At bedtime and first thing in the morning. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
There is nothing wrong with Royal Canin Urinary SO. If you get the dry, soak it in water overnight then add water too. Once the dog is stable, few months to a year, you can talk to your vet about adding something tasty to the prescription food, like cooked chopped up chicken breast or some other lean meat.
Did you check the search engine here /forums/search/bladder+stones/
Read my posts, you may find some helpful tips
Some info at this site you may find helpful http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=bladder+stones

[InkedMarie]

go to th diet and health issues forum, under this one. On top, in a yellow stickie, is a long thread on feeding large breed puppies. You may find a problem with your budget. With everything, actually. Large breeds will cost you more for food, supplements, grooming, some medicines, crate etc.

[JeffreyT]

Hi Craig,
DogFoodie gave you some great suggestions.
We have two very picky maltese, one with a sensitive stomach.
After a lot of trial and error with many types of foods, we found the freeze dried is the most palatable, easily digested and tolerated by our pups. I suggest starting with freeze dried that is pathogen-free (HPP process removes bacteria, salmonella, parasites, etc). Add filtered water and let soak in a few minutes. Rotating foods keeps them excited about mealtime, and is healthier than eating only one type of food. The following are some of the pathogen-free freeze dried mine will eat.
Stella and Chewy
Primal
Northwest Naturals (pretty sure it’s HPP)
Stewarts
Nutrisca
Dogs for the Earth (it’s already lightly cooked using all organic ingredients).

Honest Kitchen makes a great food. I wish mine liked it. You can order sample packs online.

I always add probiotics and enzymes to food which helps strengthen gut, digestion, immune system and vitality….we alternate between Dr. Peter Tobias, Mercola and Animal Essentials….all source non-GMO, pure ingredients. We keep Perfect Form by Honest Kitchen on hand in case of loose stools, but we rarely need to use anymore. I always start any supplement at a much lower dose than suggested and slowly build up.

When your pup gets stronger you may consider adding freeze dried foods that do not go through the HPP process since it’s less processed, like Orijen. Ours are crazy for the crunchy freeze dried like Tru Dog, which uses grass fed, free range meats, Only Natural Niblets and Vital Essentials. The only dry type food we give is an air dried, grass fed, minimally processed food from Real Meat Food Co. We buy the 3 pack sample bags for our rotation. They love this it and it’s easy to serve when in a hurry.

FYI, we use toppers on meals to entice our picky eaters. When feeding cooked food like Dogs for the Earth we add a cooked topper such as Dogs for the Earth liver and parsley treat, egg yolk, a sprinkle of parmesan, some lean meat or Lakse Kronch Wild Salmon Treats, etc. When feeding the raw freeze dried we top it with a few freeze dried treats (Stella and Chewys or Orijen). I try to add cooked toppers to cooked food and raw toppers to raw food to make it easier on digestion.

[Steven H]

There meal recipes came from The Healthy Dog Cookbook. Meat and Potato Patties (treats), Doggy Delicious Omelet, Spring Chicken Dinner and Thanksgiving Dinner (minus the cran and turkey sauces, ingredients in those not good).
Then of course the supplements, Canine Plus, Omega 3,6, 9 and Seaweed Calcium.
I have just this week introduced them to Merrick grain free chicken and sweet potato. Vets both agreed that it is a good idea for teeth cleaning and having a plan C, plan B is the Whole Earth Farms Hearty Chicken and Hearty Turkey grain free stew.

Going forward it was suggested to me to give them the hard kibble 4 meals a week with the rest being home cooked…. They get two meals a day, morning and evening and of course the home cooked treats during the day…..

[JeffreyT]

After doing a lot of research on purity and effectiveness, we alternate between Dr. Peter Tobias, Mercola and Animal Essentials.

For a multi vitamin mineral we’ve been alternating between Mercola’s Spirugreen and Dr. Peter Tobias’ green superfood multi-vitamin and mineral….both whole food, mostly organic. They’re easily digested and well tolerated by our small picky maltese.

We make a paste out of it, add probiotics (alternate between Mercola, Animal Essentials and Peter Tobias) and other Mercola supplements. They’re really picky but they lick this off my hand like it’s an appetizer.

You may also want to add enzymes to food to help it digest easier and for overall vitality. We alternate between Mercola, Animal Essentials and Peter Tobias.

Standard Process Whole Body Canine Support is another multi I would like to add to the rotation at some point.

For stomach issues we found our pups do best with the freeze dried food to which we add water. We rotate foods as well to keep it varied, healthy and interesting.

Good luck.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Craig,

Have you been giving your dog some sort of multi-vitamin supplement since you acquired him?

I have to say, the diet you posted in your other thread concerns me quite a bit, but I’ll post my thoughts there.

If you’re feeding a complete and balanced diet, you don’t really need a multi-vitamin. Some folks like to add whole foods as supplements such as: lean, unseasoned meats from your dinner; pureed dark leafy greens; eggs, either raw or lightly cooked; some cottage cheese; kefir; etc. These are mostly considered toppers. You could also add a fish oil supplement, preferable salmon or krill.

[anonymously]

I no longer use a lot of supplements. I do add a fish oil capsule once a day to meals, I add water to the food, especially a senior male small breed, as they are vulnerable to developing bladder stones, UTIs, take out frequently to urinate….at least every 4 hours.
Exercise/long walks as tolerated.
If you are feeding a decent diet, they don’t need multi-vits….unless your vet has recommended such. The liver has to detoxify all this stuff.
I’m just sharing what I have learned over the years.
BTW: shih-tzu’s have lousy teeth, if the vet that examines your dog recommends a cleaning and extractions, I would get it done. Then daily brushings (see YouTube for how to videos) may help to prevent any more professional cleanings being needed.
My dogs do well on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea (canned and dry) as a base. I often add a tablespoon of cooked chicken or lean meat or scrambled egg…you get the idea.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=supplements

[Craig K]

I was wondering what is the highest recommended multi-vitamin and probiotic supplement I could give my 7 year old male Shih-Tzu?

Thanks for your help! 🙂

[anonymously]

My dog had both types of stones (struvite and calcium oxalate). I would give no supplements unless approved by the vet that has examined your dog and is treating him.
You could make the situation worse.

It takes weeks (sometimes 2-3 months) to see a change in PH after diet changes and increased water added to the diet, so testing PH at home is not accurate. Just go by what the veterinarian recommends
/forums/search/bladder+stones/.

[Elena B]

Hello crazy4cats-

Thank you for your reply. She was on metronidazole for 10 days and thats what helped. I actually have the Perfect Form supplement and it didn’t make a difference for my puppy. 🙁
I will call me vet and see if we can specifically test for Giardia and Coccidia. I don’t think she was specifically tested for that if that is something that the vet does seperatly.

I’ll keep you updated.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Elena B-
Sorry about the troubles with your pups’ digestion. My pups started out with the same issue. It was very stressful. I switched foods several times as well only to find out that they had Giardia and Coccidia. Has your vet sent a sample out to a lab and specifically tested for either of those? They are both pretty common in puppies. Sometimes it is hard to detect as they shed the parasites intermittently.

Was it metronidazole that they were on that helped? It’s an antibiotic that is often given in combination with panacur to get rid of parasites. Supplements with slippery elm also helped my dogs tummies. Check out http://www.dogaware.com and click on the digestive disorders tab. There is so much helpful info on that site. One of my favorite supplements is Perfect Form made by The Honest Kitchen.

Of course, none of this info helps if it is a food allergy. Sorry, I don’t have any experience with that issue, thank goodness. But there are a couple of others that frequently post on this forum who might be able to help. There is a site that helps create home made diets called balanceit.com, if you are interested. Good luck to you. Please report how your pup,is doing!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Kristin S]

Has anyone heard about this supplement? What do you think?

[Crow M]

Congratulations on your new family member!

I went through the same ordeal last year with a very elderly and underweight rescue; how to put on weight safely, finding the balance between feeding him enough but not too much, so that his weight gain wasn’t too quick and his system wasn’t overwhelmed with too many fats.

I second the advice above – if at all possible, feed him 3 or 4 small meals a day instead of 1 or 2 big ones. I fed a good-quality puppy food mixed with a good-quality adult food* starting with a 3:1 ratio. As he came close to his target weight, I gradually changed the ratio to 2:2, then 1:3, and then finally all adult food.

Supplements: don’t over-do it. I’d give him probiotics and maybe a joint med, but really, good food is going to wonders all by itself.

*Earthborn Holistics Puppy Vantage, Earthborn Holistics Great Plains Feast, Earthborn Holistics Large Breed (all dry); Wellness Complete/Core Puppy, Wellness Complete Senior and Canidae Large Breed (all canned). I mix up what I feed my dogs; variety is a good thing.

[anonymously]

I would be more worried about the dog surviving the heartworm treatment, that is a priority.
Otherwise I would go by your vet’s suggestion, maybe a high quality puppy food (canned and dry). I might add a tablespoon of chopped cooked chicken or chopped cooked chicken liver, add a little water to meals. I might feed 3-4 small meals per day instead of 2 regular ones. I would not add any supplements unless your vet advises so, just more junk for the liver to deal with. I would not give raw food to an old sick dog.
You don’t want rapid weight gain, too stressful, just a gradual increase.
Also, see what your vet advises regarding the flea allergy, frequent baths? Be careful about vaccinations and pesticides with a senior dog like this….
Walks/activity as tolerated, keep him moving.

[anonymously]

I don’t know, are they concerned about bladder stones?
“Phosphates are used as dietary supplements for patients who are unable to get enough phosphorus in their regular diet, usually because of certain illnesses or diseases”.
“Phosphate is the drug form (salt) of phosphorus. Some phosphates are used to make the urine more acid, which helps treat certain urinary tract infections. Some phosphates are used to prevent the formation of calcium stones in the urinary tract”.

Just a guess…. You could ask your traditional vet for his opinion, leave a message for him to call you back when he has a minute, just to ask him a quick question.

You may find that homeopathic vets and traditional vets often don’t agree on treatment modalities. Then you will have to decide which one you want to believe.

[Howard J]

Hi!
She is starting to feel a lot better. Her stools are formed although they still are slightly yellow and mucusy. We brought her to a homeopathic vet and nutritionist today, she said she likely suffered from acute pancreatitis from the blood works and symptoms that we gave her. She also said she has symptoms for textbook Cushing’s disease and our other vet, thought this could be the case as well. She said to feed her chicken and rice for a few more days and she will help guide in the right direction regarding diet. She gave us PMG pancreatrophin, Paraplex and Enteric all whole food supplements. Here hormones are out of whack and she believed it stems from her pituitary gland.

[3pupmom]

So had another recheck today. No calcium oxalate crystals. He’s back to struvites. No UTI. No infection so they’re sterile stuvites. Stopping all supplements and putting him on Purina Pro Plan UR which has a s/o profile like Royal Canin. He won’t eat water soaked kibble. Is also picky abt kibble soaked in unsalted chicken stock. He goes out to urinate every 2-3 hours. There is fresh water everywhere. Let’s see how his next follow up goes. Paws crossed.

[Howard J]

Thank you so much. I’m going to bring her in to see a nutritionalist vet on Monday. Her poop is still watery and yellow. I’m also going to try the Honest Kitchen dog food and see if that works for her. I’ll give her mashed sweet potato and chicken breast tonight. If I were to give her cooked food I would have to supplement with amino acids and vitamins. DigestaVite Plus 100g looks great and will probably help put good bacteria back in her system. However, I don’t know where to buy it? The site doesn’t have a checkout and I looked on amazon and it said it would ship between january 5-February 8, which is a long time from now. It’s obviously not an American company.

What fruit and veggies do you recommend? I know that they most likely have to be pureed or boiled for easy digestion. I just don’t want to overwork her pancreas that’s why I want to give her pancreatic enzymes, they are just expensive.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Howard J.

[aimee]

Hi crazy4cats,

I’d agree that if the diet is formulated to meet AAFCO then levels shouldn’t be toxic. Primal makes products that are formulated to meet and others that are for supplemental feeding.

Excessive nutrients was the only reason I could think of as to why the OP vet was “horrified”.

[April F]

Thank you everyone so much! Yes, this year has been rather difficult, to put a very long story short I was supposed to be moving last December so I had saved up $2000 for moving and for emergency money until I got a job. In January my 4 year old chihuahua was taken to the vet because he was shaking and wouldn’t move. The next time he was x-rayed and diagnosed with IVDD he’s now on anti inflammatory and pain medicine as he needs it. My oldest girl was taken in because she couldn’t stand up and was diagnosed with arthritis and put on medication for a short time. It’s been like that off and on all year so my $2000 is now down to $118. Rein has already had one infection and was on antibiotics for that. I’ve been selling everything I can and since I was supposed to be moving still I haven’t had a job. Now that I’m looking again I can’t seem to get hired so care credit is off the table I’ve been staying with my mom and she was denied for care credit also. I’ve kept a very close eye on Rein’s urinating she doesn’t seem to strain we have 4 bowls of water through the house and one outside. I’m going to set an alarm over night to get up and take her outside if she will go. She’s always held her pee for abnormal amounts of time until she absolutely has to go and I’ve never been sure why. I’ve started a gofundme page but being around the holidays my brother has been the only one to donate. I’ve just asked everyone else to send the link around and put it on their facebook pages. I was going to put the link in the pets section of Craigslist but apparently that’s banned. I’m waiting for a call back on her latest culture sensitivity test I should get the results today or tomorrow. I’ve informed my vet about my financial situation and they said if I could pay $1000 up front than they would set up a payment plan for the rest. I am in the process of reading through the link and looking at the food and the supplement. I do have a toothbrush that I use for them (she is by far the easiest one to get her teeth brushed) so if switching to a wet food will be better for her than that’s fine with me.

[Jenn H]

Wysong also has a supplement called Biotic pH-. It’s for this kind of problem. With any luck and diet changes maybe you can avoid surgery all together.

[anonymously]

Per the search engine at this site, a lot of information here. I think you will find answers to your questions.
/forums/search/bladder+stones/

Most veterinary clinics have payment plans/credit arrangements you can apply for. If she needs surgery she must be uncomfortable, stones are painful. I wouldn’t postpone. I would get that done first, per recommendation of the vet.

Oh, and dry food doesn’t really do anything for the teeth. Brush the teeth every evening, I use a medium adult brush and Petrodex tooth paste, see YouTube for how to videos.
I have found daily brushing takes about 5 minutes and is very effective, scrub the sides and back and try to get the inside areas where the tartar and plaque tend to build up.

Post surgery: As you can see by using the search engine (bladder stones) and checking the various posts and threads at this site. The most important thing you can do is increase water intake, add water to all meals, 3 or 4 small meals per day instead of 1 or 2.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate, observe for normal flow/amount/stream. Keep the bladder flushed to avoid stagnant conditions conductive to stone formation.
Otherwise I would defer to your vet regarding diet and supplement choices, at least till the dog has been stable for a while….then discuss changes with the vet.
Some types of bladder stones tend to recur, there is a genetic component to consider.

PS: Wysong has a prescription food, ask your vet if it would be appropriate….if you like the ingredients better http://www.wysong.net/veterinarian/

[anonymously]

What does a prescription food have to do with his age? I don’t understand.
Ask your vet, but I believe a medical condition takes priority. Just add a little cooked chopped up chicken breast to it (for example) if you want more protein.

Supplements, if they do anything at all, depend on the type of stones your dog is making.
I give my dog this item, but I have cut down to only 2 tabs a day. I am not sure it does anything, but I keep giving it just in case it is helping….his struvite cleared up after antibiotics and increase in water, calcium oxalate stones are a different story (genetic).
K-Plus™ Potassium Citrate Plus Cranberry

[Sunny-Saje]

I am in a very different situation with ToW. Where I am living overseas now it is, when I can get it, the best dog food based on DFA reviews. I have an unusual breed not seen much in the US. He is a Blue Picardy Spaniel. The other choice of dog food, sold here without prescription is, Hills Science Diet Active Adult. My dog is 3 years old. I supplement his dog food with vegetables and prepare a stew from a book a friend gave me, The Whole Pet Diet (Andi Brown).

My concerns about US dog foods sold here, is are they the same formula as that sold in the States. I have not yet written to ToW, because until yesterday, I hadn’t seen their product for months. I bought 3 30lb. bags (Wetlands, Sierra, Pacific-only one bag of each was all that was available.) I wanted to check here first about that issue and also, a combining issue.

I try as much as possible to not radically switch between dog food brands, gradually introducing the new one in increasing proportions. I have two huge containers to store the food in so it doesn’t become infested with bugs or any effects from exposure to air. So now, I am wondering, to ease in storage, is there any reason why I can’t mix all three varieties of ToW as I begin transitioning away from HSD? The ingredient lists after the flavoring differences, are basically the same.

Finally, regarding the food I use to supplement, vegies and the chicken stew, are there other ingredients or other recipes I should add in to balance the ToW?

Thanks for any input!

[MAUREEN W]

The dog had surgery 2 weeks ago to remove the stones so she is doing wonderful now. The dog was on poor cheap dry food only & locked outside for several hours at a time all summer so Im pretty sure poor diet & likely not enough water was the main cause for this. Of course I want to avoid it at all again & why i am looking for help but I dont believe for a minute prescription dog food is the answer, (have you read the label on that stuff), nothing of nutritional value in it at all in my opinion. The cost of the food is not a concern, grain free & healthy diet are what i look at for my pets. She is drinking water all day & pees alot too so just want to do whats best.
I take one of my dogs to get acupuncture & last thing she says to do is Royal Canine or the rest of the prescription foods. Im not one to take meds myself unless its vitamins& supplements & want to avoid that in dogs too. I am only used to giant breed dogs & having 3 Saint Bernards & 2 lived to almost 12 & 13 & one i have still is 11. I feel I have done something right in their health & well being to live that long. I like to research everything & glad i came across this form. I appreciate all the help & concerns. I have only her best interest at heart. I plan on getting her regular xrays to make sure shes not getting stones again. but hoped to be able to do something daily to help prevent. Maybe someone reading this had the same problem & found a good answer. Ive been told by several people whos dog had stones, to feed wet food mainly in which I have done since rescued her. Thanks

[Jenn H]

You may have luck with Biotic pH-. It’s a supplement for dogs with this condition by Wysong.
I have used their Innoculant and it was a miracle. My friend is using the one for teeth/oral health. Her dogs love the stuff, but it’s too soon to tell if it’s working yet.
I’ll admit I do have a bias to this brand. I’ve had a lot of luck with the products I’ve used from them and their customer service has been wonderful. They answer questions quickly and thoroughly and their suggestions have worked out well.

[Jenn H]

I just contacted a company that was suggested to me by an alternative caregiver of the horses at my barn. It’s called Herbs for Life and they have organic pet supplements. I’m hoping they will be suggesting something for GI problems and the issues my baby girl has been having.
Another thing I wanted to suggest you try is something from Wysong called Innoculant. That’s a great probiotics. I have Wysong in my food rotation and love it. I’m about to transition my girl to Fundamentals for a while.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Jenn H. Reason: Suggested a different supplement