[pugmomsandy]

BalanceIt.com sells a supplement to go with homecooked food.

[anonymous]

I lost a dog to kidney disease many years ago. This is a very serious condition. You should be working closely with a veterinarian.
My dog needed sub-q fluids almost every day the last 2 years, prescription dog food (canned) and plenty of water, nothing else. No supplements! Just prescription meds. Discuss with your vet.
He doesn’t want to eat because he is probably nauseous, in pain, hence the vomiting. I would not try to force him to eat.
The next thing that will occur after kidney failure, if it hasn’t already, is uremia. The dog smells like urine 24/7. It emanates from his pores.
Difficult decisions ahead
Your dog needs the expertise of a veterinarian, not the internet.
Good luck

[organic n]

Hi all, I’ve been researching a lot about what to do with my dog with kidney problems. He had acute kidney failure 2 years ago, and has since been doing well but often has episodes where he is not hungry and throws up. Usually clears itself up within the day, however. He also gets pancreatic problems when exposed to things high in fat (learned that the hard way).

I don’t have his bloodwork levels with me (I was actually going to see if i could get a copy from his vet in the next few days for my own records) but I do remember his BUN being higher than normal but the vet never said anything about it in terms of lowering it, but I feel like my vet doesn’t really see it as a problem despite him having high values.

Anyway, he is a few months shy of being 16 years old, and he is a 6-7lbs dog. We stopped feeding him dry kibble for many many reasons (around a year ago), and now we make his food at home. I don’t do raw meat (I don’t feel like trying out the raw meat thing at his age and conditions is worth it), his meals consist of:

Lean ground turkey cooked with white rice, carrots, peas, and green beans. I use a vitamin supplement (Only Natural Pet® Senior Ultimate Daily Vitamin Powder). After reading however, I will make some changes to his food by swapping out the peas (heard they are high in phosphorous) for some other veggies. And maybe switching out the turkey for ground beef 10% fat. He does get treats too – and if he is willing fruit as well particularly apples.

Also, I would like to start my dog on some more supplements – particularly green food supplements (have heard kelp is high in sodium though and the ones i’ve looked at contain many types of kelp..hmm), switching out the vitamin powder to VetriScience Renal Essentials Kidney Health Support Dog, adding salmon oil, and adding pre/probiotics to my dog’s diet.

Is the salmon oil necessary if I use the VetriScience kidney support tabs?

Can someone who is knowledgeable with kidney disease in dogs advise on the supplements I would like to add to my dog’s diet? I know the best thing is to consult my vet, but perhaps someone on here who has gone something similar can advise.

[Sue H]

My vet suggested: Purina Fortiflora Canine Nutritional Supplement Box, 30gm/30 Count, which I can buy on Amazon.com for Crystal’s GI issues. I also use a teaspoon or so of canned pumpkin (not the pie mix). Both helped Crystal with diarrhea. Hope things work out well for your dog!

[Melissa O]

I’ve been getting a ground turkey meal delivered to my house for my goldendoodle, Koda, for almost a year now. Unfortunately, something changed with the company’s recipe and Koda has refused to eat the meal (it actually doesn’t look like ground turkey anymore but more like a mushy mix consistency). I’m going to start cooking for Koda again (ground turkey and beef with veggies) and need a topper to mix in which is good quality, not chicken based, great vitamins and does not have the consistency of mush.

Any recommendations?

Thank you,
Melissa

[Susan]

Hi Robyn.
I like his name Toto, ask vet can you try Hills Urinary Care, C/d Multicare wet tin Chicken & Vegetable stew, its not rubbery, it’s a nice stew meal & has better ingredients then the S/d original wet canned formula, Hills have brought out a few new stews for dogs that stay on these type of diets & the fussy eaters, google, Hills Verterinary Prescription Diet site if you want to read up on the C/d Urinary Care Chicken & Vegetable Stew you can also email Hills & a Veterinary Nutritionist will call or email you back they know more about their vet diets then the vets do, the Chicken Veggie Stew might help with his constipation having a few veggies or add 1 spoon boiled pumkin…
Hills C/d Multicare wet
INGREDIENTS LIST

Water, Chicken, Pork Liver, Carrots, Rice, Green Peas, Corn Starch, Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Potassium Alginate, Wheat Gluten, Calcium Chloride, Guar Gum, Dicalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed, Potassium Citrate, Fish Oil, Calcium Lactate, Calcium Gluconate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Choline Chloride, Taurine, minerals (Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate), L-Carnitine, Beta-Carotene.

[Anita L]

Kind of interesting that anon101 dismisses “homeopathic” (actually holistic, not homeopathic) sources of information and their own source happens to be quite biased too. The availability of vets who are aware of kibble-alternative diets may depend very much on where you live. Where I live, there are many holistically trained vets do not use only traditional veterinary knowledge, as helpful as that can be for many people.

A well-researched post about transitioning from a brick & mortar organization specializing in raw pet foods: https://sfraw.wordpress.com/2017/02/09/transitioning-to-raw-sfraw-recommends/ Hope it’s useful!

You can get the meats & bones at any butcher you would go to for your own meats. Bones are really inexpensive – just get small bones such as chicken necks, feet, to begin with, and avoid weight-bearing bones.

Personally, we give our 15 lb dog at least 2-3 meals of meaty chicken bones a week. We just approximate her usual 1/2 cup serving size from how big the bone looks. This is as a supplement to high-quality kibble and homemade (cooked) food, using Dr. Richard Pilcairn’s recipe. You may find his book helpful if you wish to learn more about alternative diets.

We have also fed prepackaged foods such as Primal brand, which comes in frozen patties. If you are open to freeze-dried, Stella and Chewy’s is also great. Ziwipeak is air-dried and an amazing food for the money (considering you can use it as a treat since it comes in little squares and is apparently delicious). All are more expensive than feeding raw sourced from grocery stores but those are premium brands for minimally processed food.

[anonymous]

Also, if the dog is overweight, get the extra weight off, increase walks/exercise/activity.
Work closely with your vet, when the dog has been stable 6 months to 1 year then you can talk about diet changes.
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Per the search engine: /forums/search/urinary+tract+infections/
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266
Good luck

[Robin B]

I just spent 4 hours and $800 at an after hours emergency veterinary clinic with my rescue mutt. He was unable to pee, straining with leg up for ages, repeat. Then he started leaking in dribbles. This appeared to come on suddenly. Examination, urinalysis, X-ray, ultrasound: struvite crystals in urethra, stones in bladder. He had a catheter flush & sent home with prescription canned Hill’s S/D. It looks disgusting but he will eat it. We’ll see our vet at our regular clinic next week to check for progress on dissolution of crystals & stones.
He had been eating quality kibble ( no grain, limited ingredients etc.) enhanced with Wellness canned food (beef, turkey, chicken, lamb in rotation. Who doesn’t like a little variety?) Good news: we might be closer to guessing his breed combo (a little schnauzer in there, they tend toward this problem) and he started peeing the morning after his procedure & the prescription diet is temporary. Unlike me, he’s not a big drinker and he seems to have a bladder that will hold forever, likely one source of the problem.
So, I think I have deduced the cause: not enough water & infrequent elimination breaks both easily remedied although he only likes to pee on his walks.
My plan is to resume his regular diet when I get the “all clear” from the vet, add water to his kibble/canned meal combo. Introduce vitamin C & cranberry supplement. Offer homemade broth in addition to water to keep him hydrated. (I’m cheating and already making & giving the broth).
My question: do I wait until he is crystal clear before adding supplements & broth to his prescription food?
Your question: I’m new to the journey but hope I’m on the right track, commercial food with quality locally sourced ingredients, combo wet & dry (quality wet alone is too rich for my budget), water or bone broth added to food, lots of water available & broth if pup won’t drink water, frequent opportunity to pee (I think that was our downfall).
Good luck & advice is welcome.

[poodaddy]

For anyone interested, KevinB included, made some time to do some modifications, for”other than raw food”, to the Canine Nutrition application (in development) and the below is the output. Note that since I have still been unable to get a response from the manufacturer of Prosense Vitamins (Dale) (see above), I have not included any contribution to the diet of KevinB’s menu. Here is the output. What is not included below is a comparison of the menu to a standard, such as FEDIAF Nutrient Guidelines Canines or AAFCO Nutrient Requirements for Dogs as such, the below stops short of “analysis”. Copying data from Excel into this web page is problematic. Perhaps someone can instrucvt me on how to do it so the data stays aligned and tabular. Each of you can assess the menu now based on the nutrition science data for the food groups listed. All data was taken from nutritiondata.com which uses the USDA tables as the foundation. I have not yet found an instance where nutritiondata.com foods did not align with the USDA testing/data. I have QA-checked about a hundred (80%) and so far 100% checks with USDA databases.

FOOD GROUP Weight g %
ORGAN-MARROW 226.7960 3.89%
MUSCLE MEAT 3095.5520 53.16%
VEGITABLE/FRUIT 2501.1560 42.95%
OIL (Supplement) 0.0000 0.00%
MACROMINERALS (Supplement) 0.0000 0.00%
MACRONUTRIENTS g per day % per day
Prot 73.3489 53.40%
Carb 41.8999 30.51%
Fat 22.1016 16.09%
kcal (449 calc) 650.3830
kcal (ref calc) 670.3673
MACROMINERALS mg per day % per day
Calcium 220.2701 3.78%
*Phosphorous 490.8865 8.43%
Magnesium 114.1447 1.96%
Potassium 536.6109 9.21%
Sodium 152.5461 2.62%
Chloride 0.0000 0.00%
MICROMINERALS mg per day % per day
*Zinc 17.9585 0.31%
*Copper 0.6985 0.01%
*Iron 7.6319 0.13%
*Selenium 0.0901 0.00%
Iodine 0.0000 0.00%
Manganese 1.8323 0.03%
Chromium 0.0000 0.00%
Cobalt 0.0000 0.00%
Fluorine 0.0014 0.00%
Molybdenum 0.0000 0.00%
Silicon 0.0000 0.00%
Sulfur 0.0000 0.00%
VITAMINS mg per day % per day
Vitamin A 1.4918 0.03%
Vitamin B1 (Thiamin) 0.2384 0.00%
Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) 0.6905 0.01%
Vitamin B3 (Niacin) 6.6424 0.11%
Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) 2.8011 0.05%
Vitamin B6 (piridoxine) 0.7010 0.01%
Vitamin B7 (Biotin) 0.0000 0.00%
Vitamin B9 (Folic Acid) 0.0328 0.00%
Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin) 0.0014 0.00%
Vitamin C 1.9644 0.03%
Vitamin D 0.0003 0.00%
Vitamin E 1.8694 0.03%
Vitamin K 0.0220 0.00%
Choline 243.2345 4.18%
FATS & FATTY ACIDS mg per day % per day
Polyunsaturated Fat (Omega-3) 439.6228 7.55%
Polyunsaturated Fat (Omega-6) 5010.4205 86.04%
Saturated Fat (g) 6.8897 0.12%
Monounsaturated Fat (g) 5.7914 0.10%
Polyunsaturated Fat (g) 6.1491 0.11%
Cholesterol 425.9580 7.31%
DATA & METRICS
Dog weight units lb
Dog weight 27.5
MERF 1.4
RER (kcal/day/dog) 464.5593
MER (kcal/day/dog) 650.3830
kcal/batch 8130.6591
Days/dog/batch 12.5013
Weight Batch g (no bone) 5823.5040
Weight Bone g 0.0000
Batch g per day per dog 465.8303
Ca:P 0.4487
Fat:Prot 0.3013

[Susan]

Hi a c,
thank-you, yes Australia is a beautiful clean country, I haven’t been to NZ yet but my sister & my daughter have been to NZ & said it’s beautiful but smells a bit when the sulphur smell comes up out of the ground, people often say us Australian & Kiwi’s are very friendly layed back people…The other day a lady stopped Patch & I while on our walk, I live in town & near the beach, so we get a few tourist who come & stay or work & she asked me, can I please pat our dog she’s here on holidays from the UK & misses her Staffy, she said aussies are such friendly people then she said even our dogs are sooo friendly, I said, yes Patch is very friendly & has to stops & say’s hello to everyone he passes, he loves getting a pat…

Yes that’s why I like giving Patch the freeze Dried Green Lipped Mussels cause of his IBD & he also gets Pancreas & stomach pain after eating certain foods, so far he’s been OK with his freeze dried Mussels, they haven’t cause any problems, the fat is low & the fats in mussels are healthy fats, omega oils & the mussels are all natural & freezed dried in their original natural state, I prefer to feed healthy foods then give supplements especially when they have stomach, pancreas or bowel problems. I hope the mussels work for your 2 Schnauzers you will see an improvement & you have a 6month old Schnauzer puppy as well, that’s what I’m thinking of getting another dog that’s around 18-24 months old, a rescue pound dog that hasn’t been desexed yet then when she goes thru rescue she’ll get desexed & hopefully be an adult.

[Susan]

HI
PLEASE see a vet, when a dog is being picky with food this is a sign the dog may have digestive problems…. Yorki’s are prone to Pancreatitis & need a lower fat diet, feeding a higher protein, higher Kcals diet nornally has higher fat as well & may cause more problems.. I’d be seeing a vet to do blood test to see why your dog is losing weight……Have you tried cooking some chickem Breast & Sweet Potato & freeze small meals? “Dr Judy Morgan” has some really good easy recipes you can make & freeze…

Have a look at “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior, it has supplements for aging dogs, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Omega 3 & its low in fat-10.80%, Protein is 28% & the Kcals are 409, she will gain weight on this formula, if she doesnt have any health problems & she wont be getting the higher fat in her diet another really good dry food “Annamaet” Lean dogs do really well on but if she is fussy I’d be joining this group on face Book “Canine Pancreatitis Support Group” then look in the “Files” click on 2nd link “Low Fat Food” scroll down a bit & look at all the wet tin foods & the fat has been converted to Dry Matter (DM) heaps of good low-normal fat wet foods…..

[crazy4cats]

Hi weezerweeks-
I’m sorry your pup is having such a hard time. I know it is stressful. Have you told your vet that he has diarrhea now that he is on the new meds?

My cat was put on an antibiotic a few years ago when he had a high fever and not doing well. He started having diarrhea and the vet thought it could very well been from the antibiotic and switched meds for him. The diarrhea stopped and he eventually got better.

I’m not sure it was clavamox or not. But, just to let you know that certain meds can actually have some bad side effects and should be switched to something else.

I’d keep his meals very simple right now and discontinue any of the supplements until he gets better. Good luck. I hope he gets better soon.

[weezerweeks]

Anon he’s under a vets care. Susan thank u so much for your suggestions. Bailey is a 7 lb 9 year old rescued yorkie. I’ve had him for 7 years. I give him preference pre mix by THK and veg to bowl premix by Dr. Harvey. I rotate these 2 and I add the protein. I change the protein every week. Turkey, chicken, ground round, version, salmon, tuna etc. for treats he gets freeze dried tripe, the honest kitchen treats. One of these a day.I rotate them. I also add yogurt to his meal at night and a teaspoon of kefir at night. I add a joint supplement because he has luxating pettalar(not bad a 1) I was also giving him foriflora probiotic when he got sick. I also rotate them springtime, mercolas. He also gets Nordic natural fish oil and 3 times a week coconut oil.I also give him a digestive enzyme(prozyme) This is the first time he’s had direahea. He usually has nausea. My vet at this time does not want to do a scope but if needed he will send me to UGA vet school.He also walks a mile every morning with my husband and at night I walk around the block with him. He loves to walk and sniff. I know that he’s 9 1/2 now but that’s not old for a yorkie. Thanks for ur input. I will ask Dr. Mac about the losec and Zantac.

[anonymous]

The food supplements (not regulated by the FDA) mentioned are not medication. Read the fine print on the bottlle.
https://www.vetsecure.com/veterinarymedicalclinic.com/articles/136

[Brenda F]

My 14 year old golden retriever Amber has been on 120 mg of Galliprant daily for past two months.The 100 mg’s are not available, the company continues to say they are out of stock which makes this med. even more expensive now. Amber just started having daily very loose stool and I suspect from this new med. She has been on Metacam in past and I am thinking of returning to it again. It seems like as more people review Galliprant that stool problems are being observed. I thought this was the solution as Galliprant is supposed to be gentle on the organs…but it certainly does not appear gentle on the gastro area. She is on many natural supplements but still needs an nsaid unfortunately due to hip dysplasia and severe arthritis.

[poodaddy]

Hi Virginia D and others. Here is our story on this specific issue of dog gas. I hope it reveals some aspects of the nutrition side. First, the advice about exercise can be 50%+ of a solution with any dog since all dogs are to some degree “athletes” that NEED exercise; exercise is not just cardiovascular but also depending on the breed can resolve many other issues that do not “seem” to be related, such as anal gland functionality. Now, I am neither a vet, nor a certified anything, but I have been a field dog handler and student of canine performance for a very long time, now using some skills to start my understanding of canine nutrition science.

Before my current two cockapoos, I had a yellow lab raised from birth as a field dog (and household pet). He lived a long healthy life and I want to share with you and others on this posting, the experimenting I did with my yellow lab AND recently (less than a year ago) with my two cockapoos. I decided to figure out in both cases (my yellow lab diet) and the two poos diets, what would happen to their digestive tract, specifically in the generation of gas, if I kept all other factors as constant as possible. What I did was figure out what percentage of their diet was protein from their kibble and then I moved them into a kibble/raw diet and stabilized the protein at 50% for a while. We raised the protein percentage in about 5% increments starting at 50% until noticeable gas started, then we leveled off to ensure it was constant. Then I increased it more until just shy of 80% and the gas creation (making sure all other things were held constant) was amazing (from a biological view). I had some old notes from my yellow lab days that I needed to convince myself of with the two poos and the results compared favorably. The nutritionist readers will have LOTS of variables that contribute to this and I would probably agree with them all, such as some combinations of foods work together to control the chemical processing in a digestive tract. For this little experiment we did, we simply wanted to know how did our dogs’ digestive tracts react to protein percentage (period) nothing more sophisticated. And we found that percentage for our specific cases that correlated for one yellow lab and two cockapoos. That result was when we reached 80% protein % from raw meat where raw boneless chicken was 60% and raw red meat was 30%+ (the remainder of protein was from other non-meat ingredients), the gas production increased rapidly.

For the testing period, and menu stablization, we used these macro goals: Protein 60%, Carbohydrate 20%, Fat 20% and then increased the protein using boneless chicken until gas started and then continued increasing it to see if there was more production and there was a correlation. By the way, body builders and most human athletes have a similar issue with protein in their diets.

So, the other comments made about overeating are on solid ground if feeding a yellow lab from kibble where the lab will eat whatever amount is placed in front of them. My reading suggests that some canines will eat low protein foods until they get the protein they need which some authors suggest that this contributes to canine obesity. The point is, some of the comments above are right on in that there may be a correlation with your lab and the amount of bulk he/she is intaking compared to feeding times and exercise.

For this post though, I wanted to share with you that for one small item in a controlled environment, we proved that changing one item (protein % using raw chicken as the variable in an otherwise balanced diet), caused the onset of gas and continued to increase as the protein % increased. Here is the makeup of the most recent raw diet our two dogs are on. These ingredients are part of an integrated nutrition model that is in development. This the first time I have shared this data but it is nearing time to engage the nutritionist forum posters. I am providing this data primarily so you know the above is not some quacked out post. This was a real experiment and perhaps the results and posts will help you (and others) where gas is an issue. All numbers are in grams weight.

Raw Chicken heart 1252
Raw Chicken liver 765
Raw Chicken gizzard 2106
Raw Chicken Marrow 315
Organ 10.8% by weight

Raw Eye Round Roast 6000
Raw Whole chicken”fryer”/deskin/grd bone 16200
Whole XL eggs 2232
Raw Bottom Round 2000
Muscle meat 64.3% by weight

Shredded Carrot 500
Raw Zucchini 484
Boiled Sweet Potato 3500
Raw NAPA Cabbage 953
Boiled Raw Edamame 800
Boiled Green Beans 1000
Raw Butternut squash 459
Raw Whole Apple 921
Raw Baby Spinach 400
Kelp Powder 100
Yellow Squash 423
Vegitable/Fruit 23.2% by weight

Coconut Oil 600
Oil Supplement 1.5% by weight

Sea Calcium 65
Macromineral Supplement 0.16% by weight

Notes:
1. The Sea Calcium is used to force the CA:P ratio to 1.2 in this menu.
2. This made 60 days of food each for two dogs, one at 13.5 LBs and one at 15.5 LBs.
3. The menu planned cost for food was $0.94 per day per dog.
4. The final results after shopping with same %s design was $1.10 per day per dog.
5. Energy analysis resulted in 306 g per day and 339 g per day for each dog.
6. Custom MER factor used as 1.4 (based on iterations over 6 months of menus).
7. 1,260 g contribution by weight due to bone.
8. 2.5% contribution on the organ side due to chicken marrow, based on my own experiments.
9. Energy required per day: 381 Cal for 13.5 LBs and 423 Cal for the 15.5 LBs poos.

Results of this menu are outstanding in all measured areas. Am in the process of peeling back “supplements and vitamins” for what they really are or aren’t. Hope this detail helps you or others. More to come from our quest for canine nutrition knowledge and practical applications.

[Randy D]

Look at the Hero formula. A little lower fat, higher protein, grain free with joint supplements. Another suggestion is Performance. It’s 26/18 protein and fat, has some grain, and also has joint supplements.

[poodaddy]

Does anyone have more complete /consistent data for the Prosense Vitamin for dogs? It seems a bit strange to me that a portion of the nutrients are listed in a % and others listed in mg.

Here is the manufacturer’s link for nutrition data: http://www.prosensepet.com/solutions/vitamin-solutions-for-dogs.aspx. What I need is the following:

(1) What is the standard that the %s listed below are applied to? I need to derive or get the mg Protein 16%, Carborhydrate (not listed) and Fat 0.3% … and mg associated with the percents shown for Calcium 6%, Phosphorous 5%, Magnesium 0.1% , and Potassium 0.3%?

=== Prosense Vitamin Data per tablet ===
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
PER TABLET (MINIMUM VALUES UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED)
Crude Protein……………………………………………………….…16.0%
Crude Fat…………………………………………………………………0.3%
Moisture (max.)……………………………………………………….10.0%
Linoleic Acid……………………………………………………………..0.005 %
Calcium…………………………………………………………………….6.0%
Phosphorous……………………………………………………………..4.5%
Potassium………………………………………………………………….0.3%
Magnesium………………………………………………………………0.1%
Iron………………………………………………………….…………….1.5 mg
Copper……………………………………………………….…………0.03 mg
Manganese………………………………………………….………….0.07 mg
Zinc………………………………………………………………………..0.8 mg
Iodine…………………………………………………………………..0.05 mg
Vitamin A……………………………………………………………….1200 IU
Vitamin D3………………………………………………………………150 IU
Vitamin E…………………………………………………….……….…….6 IU
Thiamine (Vitamin B1)……………………………………..………0.8 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)…………………………………………….1.5 mg
Niacinamide (Vitamin B3)…………………………………..…….9.5 mg
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)…………………………………..……..0.06 mg
Vitamin B12…………………………………………………….…….2.0 mcg
Cobalt*…………………………………………………………………0.01 mg
Ascorbic Acid* (source of Vitamin C) ………………………….25 mg

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles

Calorie Content (calculated)
2,550 ME kcal/kg  (6.9 ME kcal/tablet)
This product is intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding only.

DIRECTIONS AND DOSAGE

<10 lbs……………….½ Tablet Daily
10-50 lbs………………1 Tablet Daily
>50 lbs……………….2 Tablets Daily

[Saireah]

Hi there!

I have two dogs — Riggs (5 year old mastiff/shepard mix — 90 lbs) and Quinn (6 year old vizsla/lab mix — 43 lbs). Quinn has hip dysplasia and gets a Cosequinn pill each morning and both receive a fish oil supplement. I’ve had them on Dr. Tim’s Pursuit for quite some time, which is a 30/20 food. I wanted to give Victor a try, just because it’s a reputable brand and also comes in larger bags (40lb vs. Dr. Tim’s 44lb). If it doesn’t work out well, I’ll probably go back to Dr. Tim’s, but I wanted to see if Victor would help with their shedding a bit.

My question is — is the Hi-Pro Plus plan the best formula for me to pick? My dogs are fairly active, but I’d consider them a normal active level vs. high-performance. They’re in excellent health and weight. They’ve done great on Dr. Tim’s, so I assume that changing them over to a similar high-protein formula would be all right? Any concerns to go down to a 26% protein formula given that they’re getting a bit older?

Just wanted to get some guidance. 🙂 Thanks!

[Justin A]

Hi Michael, I’d sure be keen to chat. Been searching for a guide to help design a diet that doesn’t require a proprietary supplement. I’m no nutritionist but let me know if i can help out if n any way.

[poodaddy]

Ahhh, it is the weekend again and time to post good stuff. A lot of the above sounds soooo familiar with our situation for our both dogs, plus we had many other simultaneous symptoms occurring with our dogs, inconsistent stools, anal gland flare-ups, tooth/gum issues, we had been “fighting” the symptoms for so long it seemed we were destined for either living with it or changing the outcome. We were at the 4-year mark with our two cockapoos and I had enough of the personal ignorance and following everyone’s prescriptions including our Vet’s. So,… the long road on research and learning began (and it still continues), discussions with our Vet at a far more informed level (or at least the level I could study to), lots of webinars listened to given by licensed Vets with pet nutrition specializations, and reading reading reading. Talking to senior GOV nutritionists including the USDA, talking with pet consultant business owners, etc – you get the idea now that this was a lot of figuring out stuff that I could find in one condensed place. The secret we eventually (over an intense investigation period of months) came to was that we needed to take charge of the food data and get it done (science-based input = good results/output). The bottom-line in our case is that until we went to a complete raw food diet (this means really knowing first-hand what we were doing), we were destined on a course of mediocrity or worse and chasing symptoms which I (we) had enough of. The addition of ground bones and connective tissue with the raw diet addressed many issues (but that is just the beginning of the solutions). The experience, learning, demystification of misinformation, disinformation, and anecdotal information that is “out there” is staggering. This whole experience of ours is one that is very enriching and I am on a quest to tell everyone I can about the lessons learned, the solutions put into practice, the observations and iterations to make tweeks to the raw diet, etc needed to take control. On the money side, we have avoided thousands of dollars and or lots of worrisome situations with our two dogs. Because cost comes up regularly, our food cost ranges from an average of $1.00-$1.25 per dog per day (13.5 lb and 15.5 lb) not including time to plan, design, iterate, shop, prepare, manufacture, bag, clean up. And our Vet just smiles at us when we go in for the check-ups and tells us congratulations, you have broken some barriers of ignorance and have the data to back up your “program”. So, we are on the quest to get this project done and share the nutrition model (and all that goes into it) with those who want or need to start where we are and not have to recreate it. The model is in the final phase of designing the menu analysis section for supplements needed (or not needed) but it is based on nutrition data. Disclaimer: the model does not address any aspect of diet for treating diagnosed disease(s). The model is about proper diet and maximizing probability of prevention of problems that can be avoided by applying nutrition science.

[anonymous]

Regarding cranberry supplements. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry. (excerpt below)
Bottom Line
Despite some promising laboratory studies suggesting cranberry supplements might help prevent or treat urinary tract infections, the evidence of studies in clinical patients has been disappointing. Conflicting studies in humans suggest, on balance, that there is probably no significant benefit. And now a high-quality clinical trial in dogs has failed to find any effect, even in the the of infections the pre-clinical research most strongly suggested there should be one.

While the risks of cranberry supplements are probably negligible, pet owners should understand, and veterinarians should make in clear to their clients, that there is no good reason to believe they have any real value in preventing or treating urinary tract infections.

[Noelle M]

This is a hot topic for me lol
I have a dog with struvite stones and chronic utis.
Of course when we were given this diagnosis we were recommended a prescription diet from our vet. I immediately cringed at the ingredient list that was majority corn. There was no way I was going to feed my dog what was essentially corn meal with chicken fat half way down the list for the rest of his life. So I began my very long, very draining journey into finding a decent food that wouldn’t cause a flare up.
First I had to figure out WHY the prescription diets worked. Right on the Hill’s website they explain that the food contains controlled levels of calcium, phosphorus and magnesium to manage the development of stones.
So I took the calcium, phosphorus and magnesium levels from the prescription food and started comparing them to other foods. SO many foods. Many of which I had to email the company directly because they didn’t have those levels available online.
Essentially I looked for food with calcium and phosphorus levels below 1%, the lower the better. There are actually quite a few to choose from!
My boy has been on Performatrin Ultra Grain Free Senior for the past number of months, his meals are floated in water and I add a cranberry supplement. His condition has been kept 100% under control and he is doing wonderfully overall on this food.
Generally I have found that senior or large breed formulas are more likely to have sub 1% calcium and phosphorus.

Some of the brands I have found that could work are:
Performatrin Ultra Grain Free Senior
Nutram Sound Senior and Large Breed
Diamond Naturals Grain Free Chicken and Sweet Potato

I give bonus points to foods that contain cranberry already, though I continue to supplement it.

Bottom line is the prescription foods WILL work to treat a specific condition, but I personally could not bring myself to feed it long term based on the ingredient lists. There ARE decent quality foods out there that match or come close to matching the analysis of the prescription diets that should manage the dog’s symptoms and are generally much healthier overall. Look for subzero levels of calcium and phosphorus, float the food in water and consider a cranberry supplement.

Obviously I cannot gaurentee that any of these foods will work, but it is definitely worth a shot imo and has worked beautifully for my dog who had pretty severe and chronic symptoms.

Good luck!

[Cherie G]

I’d like to thank “crazy4cats” and “anon101″ for the information and websites you have suggested I look into.
This has taken me to a better understanding about
Struvite stones and dog food ingredients and diets. I, like many others just accept what my vet had said as far as what to feed her. She has now been on Royal Canin SO for over a year. She was a rescue so the sample of the stone wasn’t analyzed to see if it was Struvite or Oxylate. I do intend to do this since I have it. She doesn’t appear to have urinary track infections, and goes pee 3-5 times a day. The stone was 2” and oval like an egg in a little 19# Bischon mix. After reading the ingredients in RC…..Brewers rice, corn, chicken by products, chicken fat etc…….I’m thinking she may not be having enough protein? RC=crude protein 14.0%, crude fat 145.0% crude fiber 4.% moisture 10%. I do supplement her with cooked chicken and sometimes other meats, however, not every day. After reading about chicken by products……..I’m not sure if I want her to have that! ANY COMMENTS???? I also always give her water in her kibble.
I am looking for a new dog food……that is about the same price or less. I’ve been dealing with Chewy so far. THANKS AGAIN SO MUCH!!!!! Cherie

[Susan]

Hi Debbera,
Please be careful feeding fish dog foods, the brands & formula’s you have mentioned have tested 10 times higher the recommend dose for toxins & contaminate’s when these fish formula’s were tested both times the is yeay April & August both fish formula’s have come back very high in toxins & contaminates…..google “Toxins in pet foods” & the **** links will come up…
brands like Trudog, Great Life, “Canidae”, Dogswell, I & love & you, Pet Pride Kroger, Buckly Liberty all rated very well in both pet food testings…. it was their chicken, lamb & Beef formula’s…. The Fish formula’s seems to be very very high in toxins, no good for a dog with IBD, IBS or any health problems…

This happened with my IBD boy, his vet & I couldn’t work out why Patch was doing really then after I being introduced to American fish formula’s then around 3 months while eating these fish formula’s he would go down hill with all 3 different American fish brands he was eating, they didn’t have any ingredients he was sensitive too so it wasnt food intolerances cause I had done an food elimination diet the 12 months before & knew what ingredients he was sensitive too & avoided these ingredients, so we couldn’t work out what was wrong, then this year I read about some fish pet food being very high in toxins & seen these 3 brands/formula’s in the worse top 10 formula’s first & second testing list, they were 10 times higher the recommended amount for toxins & contaminates, I felt so bad I was poisoning my boy slowly……..now the only fish Patch gets is human grade Australian caught or NZ fish that I eat & his “K-9 Natural” freeze dried green lipped Mussels from New Zealand, he’s been doing heaps better with his IBD now & hasnt had another IBD flare since I’ve stopped feeding American fish kibbles……

When a dog is having mucus bloody soft poos normally means she is sensitive/intolerant to an ingredient in the formula she’s eating, Patch was doing condom poos I called them, looked like a condom was wrapped around his poos, or jelly poo’s, no vet diets worked for him, alot vet diets are higher in insoluble fiber & very low soluble fiber making poos slop cow pattie poo’s, later I worked out this is why some of these vet diet formula’s were not working & helping Patches IBD, vets don’t really know whats in these vet diets, I knew more then all of Patches vet knew about the vet diets they were recommending, then finally I read TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon formula’s were working for a lot of IBD & EPI dogs, these formula’s both are lower in fiber at 3%max but the TOTW Salmon formula kept making Patch vomit straight after he ate the salmon kibble then he was eating it again, I didnt know this cause I wouldn’t be home some times but I kept seeing a wet patch on the carpet then the cat dob him in one day she was burying nothing on the carpet that’s when I clicked, vomit was there & Patch was quickly eating the un digested kibbles back up leaving a wet spot on carpet, his poos were excellent within 2 days nice firm solid poos, then this year I seen this fish brand foods that made him vomit was on the highest toxins 2nd list testing & finally worked out why Patch was going down hill when he ate fish kibbles..

If you keep having problems with your girl then a cooked diet is probably best to feed even if 1 meal is cooked & 1 other meals are kibble, a few of the IBD/EPI groups the dogs are doing really well the “4health” Sensitive Care, Sensitive Stomach formula it has just Egg & Potato so very easy to break down & digest or the 4Health Sensitive Skin formula it has pea flour & hydrolzed Salmon, so the hydrolyzed salmon has been broken down for the dog, so very easy to digest good for diogs with IBD, in both formula’s the fat & protein isn’t really high, alot of dogs with IBD need lower fiber & protein diets & 4Health has all this… worth a try if your girl still not well, also the “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior is really good for senior dogs & has all the supplements needed for aging dogs.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[anonymous]

@ Charles B
Please do not apply anything to the skin or give over the counter meds intended for humans or give supplements unless instructed to do so by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
You could make things much worse and increase the risk of infection.

[Susan H]

Does anyone here own a Norfolk Terrier? I got a 10 week old last Saturday and want advice on what puppy food works well for their systems. The breeder was using blue buffalo puppy food but said she was probably going to switch back to Fromm. She stopped because chewy stopped carrying it.

I know as in other small breeds there is a risk for obesity and for heart issues (I plan scrupulous dental care).

I lost my nearly 17 year old miniature schnauzer a month ago and want to give this new pup the best life I can.

Any suggestions for food, supplements would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[anonymous]

Vitamin C strikes (out) again

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/things-holistic-vets-say-about-cancer-that-should-make-pet-owners-run-the-other-way/ (excerpts out of context below, click on link for full article and comments) Nothing is being sold. Science-based veterinary medicine.

Things Holistic Vets Say About Cancer that Should Make Pet Owners Run the Other Way
Posted on July 5, 2016 by skeptvet
Cancer is a common and frightening disease, and many pet owners will have to face making decisions about cancer care for their pets at some point. While there are many therapies that can improve quality of life for a veterinary cancer patient, extend life, and even cure cancer in some cases, the painful reality is that there is much we don’t know about cancer. Often, cancer will be life limiting despite the best care possible.
This unpleasant reality leads many to seek alternative therapies for their pets with cancer. Unfortunately, those alternatives are almost never proven to be safe or effective, and many, such as homeopathy, are unquestionably nonsense. Yet despite the lack of evidence to support many alternative cancer treatments, and the evidence that shows some such treatments can cause real harm, some vets will try to frighten and mislead pet owners into avoiding scientific medical therapies and grasping at the various straws they offer, from homeopathy to acupuncture, from supplements and magical diets to outright magic such as so-called “energy medicine.”

“In the face of the ubiquitous unreliable information from holistic vets such as these, it can be hard to sort out which information is truly useful. Here are some resources that are a good bit more trustworthy”.
Veterinary Cancer Society (This group also has a tool for finding a board-certified veterinary cancer specialist.) Here are some of the links the VCS recommends:
ACVIM Foundation
American Animal Hospital Association Healthy Pets
American Association of Feline Practitioners
American College of Veterinary Radiology
Animal Cancer Center at CSU
Animal Cancer Foundation
Animal Clinical Investigation, LLC
Boo Radley Foundation
Brazilian Society of Veterinary Oncology
C3O: Center of Clinical Comparative Oncology
Canine Health Foundation
Cornell’s College of Veterinary Medicine “Consultant”
ESVONC (European Society of Veterinary Oncology)
Magic Bullet Fund
Perseus Foundation
PubMed
QuitDay.org
Morris Animal Foundation
The National Cancer Institute
UC Davis Comparative Cancer Center
University of Pennsylvania’s “Oncolink”
Vaccine Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force
Veterinary Center for Clinical Trials at the University of California-Davis
Veterinary Society of Surgical Oncology
The Veterinary Cancer Center

[poodaddy]

Well, you have my contact information. When you are ready to start planning (say about two months out from doing it yourself), let me know. I plan on helping a lot of folks get a first-hand view into the equipment needed, what it is really like to plan a menu, iterate on the nutrition metrics, set up the specific controls for dog weight, activity level, age, etc, and take control of their individual dog’s food requirements, but, … not until the model is completed and checked by a seasoned pet nutritionist. There are two actions to complete the model: (1) input the Daily Nutrition Requirement by micro and vitamin into the model which will automatically show the variances in each micronutrient and vitamins from the menu, and (2) determine the source(s) of supplements needed (if any) to balance the variances to an optimum. Getting VERY close!

[MATT C]

Wow! That sounds like quite the project and quite the commitment. Since my wife is now working more hours (away from the home) we decided that this was not going to be the right time to transition Jasper’s diet. We’ll be looking for a time when I will be home for a stretch to deal with any digestive “issues”.

On a separate note, one of the major revelations regarding his gut issues came about a few weeks ago. We finally realized that his “flare-ups” (as we call them) have been coming a 4-5 days after his heart worm meds. So in an effort to reduce the number of things changing we are keeping his diet the same and we will omit this medicine. With luck, making this change will prevent his issues and eventually allow us to transition him to a natural diet.

We also found a fairly local raw food provider. Fortunately, we have a retailer in our area.

http://abbyschoice.com/home.html

This product (along with some supplement) will be fairly high on my list when looking at raw options 🙂

[george h]

I joined to share our experiences and suggest additional OA options because we found a vet that stays on the cutting edge of treatments.

Our 14 yr old golden retriever had mild hip dysplasia when we rescued her, so our vet recommended feeding an rx diet with high fish oil and glucosamine content. After more than a decade, our golden has only mild arthritis in her lower spine and mild stiffness/weakness in her rear legs. Now Doggo’s ancient for the breed, perhaps it’s an outlier in general.

Nevertheless, when the rx food manufacturer switched to rancid fish oils, Doggo (and the others) refused to eat the rx food. While researching new dog foods, we started feeding Doggo human grade (aka “my”) fish oil and glucosamine/msm supplements daily with a primary protein grain free diet. After four months, Doggo’s mobility/cognition was better than when eating the rx food. (Btw- Rancid fish oils actually cause inflammation in the body instead of reducing inflammation.)

And because Doggo was moving better, Doggo was playing to the point of excess. The vet recommended a short course of rimadyl, but Doggo experienced a personality change on rimadyl. The obedient without fail Doggo refused to stay in the yard or come when called. It was terrifying.

Our vet found the rimadyl side effect unusual, ran bloodwork (normal liver with slightly elevated kidneys) and offered newly available pentosan injections that lubricate the joints to relieve OA pain– without affecting kidney or liver function. We were told it may not alleviate all the pain, but Pentosan has worked wonders! We learned how to inject it (subcutaneously) so Doggo doesn’t have to endure a long ride for a maintenance dose, and at $20-$30 per dose, it was worth trying.

But Doggo played to excess again and instead of rimadyl, the vet prescribed galliprant. At first galliprant didn’t seem to be as effective as rimadyl but it didn’t cause the personality changes rimadyl did. After a few days on galliprant though, Doggo was feeling better. The dose is just enough to provide relief without allowing Doggo to play as hard as a puppy.

Again, Doggo may be the exception not having any GI issues with either rimadyl or galliprant– btw, wrapped in American cheese slices and given before the morning meal. Glucosamine and fish oil supplements (and/or pentosan injections) may have negligible effects in other dogs. The other supplements may or may not be helping: recently, we started giving Doggo vitamin C and cholodin supplements, in addition to a human Nicotinamide Riboside with Pterostilbene supplement. Perhaps even minimal dietary supplements/changes are cumulative– our current theory. Whatever the case, we hope someone else can benefit from knowing what we’ve found effective with Doggo.

[Susan]

Hi,
I posted a post the other day but it’s not here now??.. Yes go back to just feeding the Natural Balance kibble, what meat protein is in the NB formula he’s eating??
When I rescued Patch he had just turned 4yrs old, I didn’t know what he could eat & what he couldn’t eat & in the end that’s why his 4th vet put him on another vet diet that finally worked & firmed up poos but caused itchy smelly yeasty paws & skin, cause he cant eat Chicken his stomach & bowel is OK eating chicken but he gest Yeasty itchy paw & skin & carrots cause yeasty, itchy, smelly ears, you know Atlas does well on the Natural Balance formula & you know he can eat Chicken & Potatoes so that’s a pretty good start, so he Defently has food intolerances, if his gut was un healthy then he’d be like Patch was when I first rescued him, no matter what he ate he do OK poo’s then he was doing poos with jelly on them or like a condom over the poo (Food Sensitivities), then he was doing sloppy yellow poos (S.I.B.O) that smelt awful, that’s how a “GOOD” vet knows if the dog has either S.I.B.O, IBD, EPI, Food Intolerances…..when their poos are yellow it’s their small bowel that’s not working properly…Patches new vet said lets try the vet diet Eukanuba Intestinal low residue formula it wasthe only vet diet Patchhadn’t tried & finally he was doing smaller firm poo’s & only 2 or 3 poos a day then his vet wanted him to stay on the Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet for 9-12months to let his stomach & bowel heal as he probably has been doing sloppy awful poos most of his life, that’s why he ended up at a pound I’d say, his owner just didnt care, probably when Patch was Atlas age his owner didnt bother trying to work out what was wrong with him & just kept feeding him ingredients he was sensitive too & that has now caused IBD one of Patches vet said…..

I would just feed the Natural Balance for 1 month NO Kefir as this could have caused the
in-balance in his stomach & bowel, S.I.B.O, this is why you only add 1 new food or supplement at 1 time maybe every 1-2 weeks then you know 100% it’s the new food or supplement you’ve added to diet causing sloppy/diarrhea poo’s…
Look at the ingredient list in the “Kirkland Nature’s Domain” I would start doing an Elimination Food Diet start adding peas to his cooked meal start off slowly under 1/4 of a cup for 2 days then increase the amount of peas if he doesn’t have sloppy poos diarrhea in the 2 weeks chances are he can eat peas, then I would stop the peas & start adding boiled peeled Sweet Potato also for treats start making jerky treats, you know he can eat chicken so make Chicken Jerky, if he can eat sweet potato make sweet potato jerky as well or I was making Pork & beef rissoles, I was buying very lean grounded pork mince or beef mince adding 1 whisked egg & 1 teaspoon chopped parsley mixing all together & making small Pork rissoles balls or making separate beef rissoles, I’d foil lined a baking tray & bake them in the oven, they only took about 10 mins on 1 side then half way I would drain any fat & water & turn the rissoles over then cook another 10mins after you cool the rissoles I freeze, then break up a few rissoles & give as treats or I mashed a few rissole balls with some boiled sweet potato for lunch….
It does take time doing an elimination food diet but in the end you will know 100% what he can & cant eat…

The only other thing you can do is if you see a vet ask the vet can he write you a repeat script for some “Metronidazole” a few months worth to keep at home so if Atlas becomes unwell again or when you start introducing a new kibble you put Atlas on the Metronidazole tablets for 2 weeks while intoducing the new kibble, a few dogs in the Canine IBD group see IBD Specialist & this is what their vet specialist has told them to do, same as Patch in the end I had to so I could change his vet diet, I couldn’t handle him smelly & scratching from the chicken in the vet diet, I’d start him on a new kibble he’d be doing really well, good poos then around 2 & 1/2 months later his poos went yuk & soft again, the vet didn’t know what was wrong was his gut bacteria going out of balance too much bad bacteria again?? vet couldnt work out what was happening was it food sensitivities/intolerances as they can take anywhere from 1 day to react up to 6 weeks to start reacting, but this was 2 months later, this is why your better off starting an elimination food trial & start with adding the ingredients in the Kirkland Turkey & Sweet Potato formula or a kibble you want to feed, I’d start with adding boiled Peas, then Sweet Potatoes, blueberries as treats add to his cooked meal & see how he goes, it will be 3 steps forward 2 steps backwards in the beginning, so make sure you keep a diary, I always look back on Patches diarys when I need to rememeber something……
Patch was doing really really well most of 2016 while eating the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble & having a cooked meal Pork Rissoles & sweet potatoes he was drinking heaps of water maybe 2-3 times a week, vet did all these test they showed nothing was wrong, so vet said it could be pain related so I had introduced “Canidae Pure Wild Boar” then he started whinging after 2months of introducing the Canidae, his poos were bigger & softer on the Canidae in the beginning but got better as the weeks went by plus he was eating TOTW for his bigger meals breakfast & 1st dinner, Canidae was givin for Lunch & a second dinner the Canidae were smaller meals, he was geeting his pain right side Stomach/Pancreas area I thought the Canidae was too high in Kcals it was over 400 Kcals per cup this has happened before with another kibble so I started to introduced a new kibble Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Digestion Lamb then his poos went real sloppy again & smelly he had been eating the same kibbles all Spring & Summer TOTW Canidae no poo problems until the I added the Purina Digestion, Sensitive Stomach cause Patches pain right side, Patches American vet Sue had recommendd I try Purina months before so this is why I tried the Purina, the vet Sue blammed environment allergies & said his immune system has gone into over drive from his allergies & he’s reacting but I think it was more from when I started to add Purina Sensitive Stomach kibble to his diet it had Barley in it, I dont think he does well when the kibble has barley in it or he had an imbalance in the bowel S.I.B.O & they get abnormal amounts bacterica accumulate in the small bowel making their poos go yuk again, something he was eating put his gut/bowel floria out of wack again & causes too much bad bacteria then he starts doing very sloppy poos again, that’s what happens with Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth (S.I.B.O) it happens in young dogs, they can’t put on any weight they stop growing, maybe Atlas has a few Intestinal problems, he has his Food Sensitivities & he might get SIBO as well & the Kefir set off the SIBO again, Metronidazole gets rid of the S.I.B.O & then the gut/bowel is balanced again…..

It’s very hard working out your dog what agrees with him & what doesn’t, I’ve learnt more thru people in canine IBD groups who have been thru all this, there’s a good small F/B group called ” Irritable Bowel Disease & G.I Related Diseases In Dogs UK” group on Face Book, the Amercan Canine IBD group the lady who runs it just pops in & tells everyone to go & see your vet & the poor people have been & seen their vets & they still have no answers what’s wrong with their por dog, I’m noticing over the years there’s a few bad vets in America, I dont think a vet in America has to study as long as an Australian or UK vet does?? cause Patches vet Sue is American & she said when she came to Australia in the late 80’s she had to do another 2 years study to work as a vet in Australia & also in Australia vets have to follow up with yearly courses… Patches really good 2nd vet Simon he did Patches Endoscope & Biopsies, he’s very busy & very hard to see he’s always operating etc he knows heaps about the stomach/bowel, he’s the vet that isnt really into giving dogs PRObiotics to dogs, he said there’s no real scientific proof about PRObiotic work in dogs, but if you think your seeing an improvement he said then give Patch the Probiotics but make sure it’s a dog probiotic that are stored in the fridge, “Protexin Soluble”, I said Probiotics seem to make Patch feel sick, he starts his mouth licking & swollowing but only some days this would happen, then Simon said when it comes to PREbiotics he said yes he has found Prebiotics did help & work on some of the dogs he’s treated… I never saw any real improvement with Patch but I did when he was on “NAS, Digestavite Plus” Powder, its a dog prebiotic with vitamins that balances raw or cooked meals he was eating, I went thru a Naturopath with Patchto put him on a raw diet in te end before I found the TOTW & Canidae kibbles, his vet referred Patch to a Holistic Vet but shewas very expensive $180 a hour, so I saw a Animal Naturopath Nutritionist instead, she cost $60 a hour, she makes the “Natural Animal Solutions” products, the Digestavite Plus Powder has Glutimine, Inulin, Spinach leaf powder, Parsley leaf, Beetroot powder, Broccoli, Green Tea, Grapeseed extract, Ginger, Slipperly Elm, Stem Bark, Milk Thistle, Acacia Powder, then Vitamin B1, B2 B3, B5 B12,D3, Patches poos were beautiful & firm when he has the Digestavite Plus Pawder over his cooked & raw meals….
You can ask the vet about weekly Vitamin B12 injections, the B12 really helps dogs that keep having diarrhea slopping poos..
Just see how Atlas goes just eating the Natural Balance for 1 month then introduce 1 new food to his diet nothing else. Good-Luck he’s your special boy.. I’m rescueing another dog soon, Patch is turning 9yrs old, 20th November…I’m going to make sure she does NOT have any Allergies or Stomach/Bowel problems. sorry about the long posts but there’s too much information to leave out..

[Susan]

Hi Dana,
Scroll up to the 2013 posts, read “Hound Dog Mom” post, she recommends cheaper joint meds that are good..
Go on Chewy site & get some “K-9 Natural” Green Lipped Mussels 50g, they’re freeze dried excellent given as treats 1-2 mussels a day, the shell in the mussel has Glucosamine & Chondroitin, the mussel meat is high in Omega 3, low fat & wont cause any stomach pain/acid reflux like alot of these joint meds can cause… If you ask vet or vet nurse they may know of a human grade supplement that has same ingredients as Dasuquin Advance, read ingredient list to the Dasuquin Advance write it down then take to a few Pharmacist/Chemist & ask the Pharmacist is there a joint supplement that has these ingredients….. Green Lipped Mussel are excellent to give especially when your dog has Panreatitis IBD stomach problems….

[anonymous]

@ Dana

Thanks. I often encourage posters to check the search engine at this site.
Example: /forums/topic/senior-chihuahua-mix-needing-joint-supplement/
But, I think folks are maybe hoping for some new and fresh ideas.

Can your Yorkie have an occasional bite of cooked skinless lean chicken breast?

[anonymous]

Per the search engine: /forums/search/bladder+stones/
See my posts
Also regarding prescription food:

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

I have used Royal Canin SO for a dog for a dog with bladder stones with good results.
Zignature is a quality food, copy the ingredient list from Chewy and show your vet, maybe the dog could have that? Or, 1/2 and 1/2 with the prescription food? Check with your vet.
Whatever you feed, add water and maybe soft food, presoak kibble and add water.

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection

[Susie]

I want s to add, maybe your pup is low in vitamin b and or folate? It can cause or be the cause of GI issues. My boy was low and he is doing better after supplementing. We did a GI panel thru Texas A&M.

[InkedMarie]

Do a google search on your subject. A few years back, the Whole Dog Journal had an article with supplement suggeststions. At the time, Neutricks worked for the senior dog I had.

[poodaddy]

This thread is old (2014) then jumps to 2017. If anyone is tracking on this subject, and wants to collaborate in a specific “area” of this site, who can help understand how to manage a forum or subject, concerning the pursuit of and finishing of a raw dog food system that is complete from create the menu, crunch the numbers, determine the supplements (from the science of nutrition), let me know. I am into this in a big way, have been cataloging the personal journey from knowing nothing to gaining 100% control of the data, have the background in model development, and have the interest in using science to demystify it all. And it is all driven by my love for my two cockapoos and nothing else.

I am on a quest to find a group (of one or more) who have this interest as I am at the 90% stage on completing the project.

[poodaddy]

Here is my “3 cents” on the “raw dog food” subject: (1) there is the observation aspect of positive change in stool, gland secretion, in some cases behavior, athletic performance noticeable by all those I am associated with in the transition of commercial to raw (not cooked), (2) there is the science aspect of knowing through nutrition science what the menu actually is from researching/collecting the food data and analyzing it for macro, micro, vitamin, fatty acids data, and (3) there is the analytical aspect of comparing the menu results from (2) above to industry standards for minimum daily requirements adapted to your dog’s lifestyle/function and supplementing the raw menu to meet that standard.

I have completed (1) and (2) in an open Excel system and am working toward (3) at this time. I am interested in collaborating with a group of people who are highly interested in the above, and in so doing move the raw food discussion to a far higher level.

[poodaddy]

Michael B,

For about 5 months now, I have been developing an integrated system using Excel as a complete nutrition model specifically targeted at total visibility of all elements/variables for raw dog food preparation. This initiative is not for commercial sale, is for my use to control every aspect of planning, designing, shopping, manufacturing, and feeding my dogs. The system has two items remaining to be complete before I am comfortable starting to share my knowledge, and the software development: (1) industry recognized source of canine MDR (wet) or MDR (dry with conversion methodology to wet) for all micro-nutrients and vitamins and (2) sources for concluding my research into supplements to finish the balancing.

So,… if you want to start a dialog on this, let me know.

[Susan]

Hi Atlas,
slow & steady in the beginning with Patch, I used the new kibble as treats for 2 days then on the 3rd day I only added under 1/4 of a cup for 3 days to 1 cup old kibble then if poos looked good then I started to add 1/4 of a cup, I gave 1/4 cup with each meal for 3 days, the I added 1 heaped 1/4 of a cup for 2 days & just kept look at his poos making sure poos were good, then I stay on 1/2 new kibble & 1/2 old kibble for 1 week before I introduce any more of the new kibble… 3-4 years ago 1 year after I rescued Patch he was having skin problems from the vet diet kibble he was eating for his IBD his poos were firm but it wasnt grain free & he must of been sensitive to an ingredient causing itchy yeasty smelly paws & skin so I tried a vet diet Eukanuba FP Fish & Potato, all I added was under 1/4 of a cup for 2 days to his other kibble then 2nd night Patch was up all thru the night with really BAD diarrhea every 2 hours the vet & I thought he cant eat potatoes & for 2 yrs I couldn’t try any kibbles that had Potato, then one day I was at a pet shop & the lady at the pet shop said why can’t he eat potato, I’ve never heard a dog getting diarrhea from potatoes, I’m a breeder I breed Border Collies & show them, I had a dog with IBD & potato firmed up his poo’s, she was a very pushing lady lol then I told her what had happened & she said it could have been the fish or a supplement in the Eukanuba FP kibble you dont really know, she said start adding a little cooked boiled potato with Patches meal cause he might be able to eat potato & he was fine, so I went back to the pet shop & tried the TOTW & Patch did really good firm poos the first time in 2 yrs his poos stayed firm & didnt go soft some days, like they were doing on teh vet diet the vet wanted him on & now after seeing Clean Label Testing I think it could have been the fish, it was probably high in toxins or something else was wrong with the Eukanuba FP kibble, I have never seen Patch that bad since he had pooed blood all night & vet said stop all food for for 24-36hrs & let his stomach bowel rest, then he was put on another vet diet with Metronidazole for 21 days that made his skin itch & smell.. Sometimes some vets don’t have a clue & just put the dog on vet diets & meds (steriods) I didnt have a clue & thought they’re a vet they’d know more then me about diarrhea, now finally Patch has 2 really good vets one the lady vet is more a holistic vet & the other vet he specializes in the stomach/bowel & does Endoscopes biopsies & few other things..

My vet told be it’s OK if their poos are softer some days as long as they don’t stay sloppy/diarrhea… If Patch is eating the same brand kibble & I’m not introducing a new kibble & he’s was doing well on his old kibble then all of a sudden his poos startéd to go sloppy I wait 2 days & see if poos go good again & if on 3rd day Patches poos still look sloppy smelly awful I put him back on the Metronidazole tablets for 14-21 days, something has put his good bacteria out of wack & he has more bad bacteria then good bacteria….

[Susan]

Hi Erik,
have a look at “Canidae” Pure Formula’s, Petite Pure formula’s & the All Life Stages formula’s rotate between a few different formula’s with different proteins, all the kibble size are nice & small & as soon as teh dog bites the kibble it crunches & breaks, breaks very easily..
I do the kibble test for my boy cause he has IBD he needs an easy to digest kibble, no hard kibbles that just sit in his stomach & don’t digest then he vomits them back up 6-8hours later, you get a glass/cup of warm water & drop in about 2 kibbles in the glass of water, a good easy to chew & digest kibble will float to the top of water & only take about 15-40mins to go soft all the way thru, Canidae only take 20mins & the kibble swells & is soft all the way thru…
if your other dog is around 7yrs old the Canidae Pure Meadow Senior is a really good kibble it has 3 meat proteins, 1st ingredient-Chicken, 2nd-Chicken Meal, 3rd-Turkey Meal, then 4th-Sweet potatoes + all the supplements needed as they age…or look at Canidae’s other “Pure” formula’s, click on link below scroll down a bit & on your right you’ll see “View All” click on the pages…
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[Susan]

Hi Darlene,
He sounds like he has a lot of life left in him & has a exciting little life, going on daily walks, chasing squirrels, I’d say the Wellness Core Small Breed isn’t agreeing with him anymore it’s way to rich now for an older dog….Wellness Core Small breed is higher in fat & protein, probably causing bad wind pain like my boy gets when he eats a kibble that doesnt agree with him, he wakes up & is up & down thru the night & just walks around the common garden area then he comes back inside, I’d say he’s farting then feels better then my boy comes back inside goes to bed then he’s up again wanting to go out again, see how he goes after eating the Hills I/d wet tin food see if he settle down, cause he’s normal thru the day isn’t he??

I’d feed the Hills I/d low fat Restore wet canned food & also a Senior kibble like “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior if he still wants a few dry kibble bisuits to chew & crunch on, Canidae Pure Meadow Senior formula is GF very easy to chew & digest, only has 10.80%max fat & has all the supplements older dogs need for their joints, skin, brain, heart etc, I’d start feeding smaller meals thru the day/night, I feed 4-5 meals a day 7am, 9am, 12pm, 5pm, 8pm….easier to digest smaller meals then 2 bigger meals.
You could feed 1-2 meals a dry kibble like the “Canidae” Senior kibble & the rest of his meals he gets the I/D Restore wet tin food & see if he gets better thru the night. Ask vet about “Gabapentin” capsules, it helps them sleep at night, helps any joint or nerve pain & doesn’t cause any stomach/bowel problems, if your on facebook, put “Canine Pancreatitis Support” group in the “search” bar, join then on ur left is their “Files” click & then click on the first link “Low Fat Foods” then scroll down a bit till you get to all the wet tin foods, the fat has been converted to dry matter (DM) fat (Kibble) on your right, then he can have a few different flavours & see which one he really likes best..
Here’s Canidae’s site to look at the dry formula’s but the wet tin foods haven’t been converted & probably will be too high in fat for him, when you see say 5%min fat on a wet tin food after it’s converted to dry matter 5%min fat is around 20%min -25%max fat that’s way too high…
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[anonymous]

Follow the dog around when he is due for a bowel movement. Scoop and discard immediately. Out of sight, out of mind. After a while they stop turning around to look for it.
You cannot leave these dogs alone with their feces.
The supplements don’t work. They are expensive and you would have to treat every dog in the household.
Do not free feed, if you feed twice a day it will be easier to predict when they will have a bowel movement.

Per the search engine here: /forums/search/coprophagia/

[carol s]

I lost Harley to what was determined liver failure. PJ has been sick with itchy festered ears and itchy skin and diarrhea for over a year off and on. No meds or treatment took it completely away. PJ’s blood work comes back he is fine but he is not. I took PJ off the Rachel Ray Nutrish and grain less foods that I periodically but recently exclusively feed them, thinking it was healthy. In fact I took him off dog food completely 2 days ago. I realize I missed the pattern that when I fed them Rachal Rays Nutrish or grain less dog food is when the problems would begin. In the two days of PJ being off the food he is almost cleared up. I have fed him nothing but my own cooked meats and vegetables. Yes, I am using meds and ear solution and bathing him with special shampoo as well. However, he has been on these meds in the past and not responded this quickly. I now truly believe this dog food killed my Harley and has made my PJ sick. After reading all the reviews of people whose dogs had all the symptoms mine had, I am saddened that I didn’t think to look into it sooner. While I can’t prove anything I am convinced Harley would still be with me today if I had never fed food this to him. If your dogs are eating this dog food I highly suggest you stop. The symptoms are not easily noticed in the beginning they can become less active because they are not feeling well. Which is what I realized Harley was going through at first. Other symptoms are diarrhea, blood in stools, vomiting black which is blood, Itchy to severe rashes. I kept taking them both to the vet and in the past year I have spent over $2,000 on medications, special shampoos and skin supplements when all along I believe it was the food I was feeding them.

[Mary G]

I am so sorry you are going through this with your beagle. I also have a beagle with health issues. It could be your doggie is allergic to some of the ingredients of the food. If you can, find a vet that also knows about homeopathy and natural diets. I was feeding mine dry kibble but he had two health scares with his heart and high glucose. I went to a homeopathic veterinarian and nutritionist and am now giving him natural foods (with recipes provided by the vet) and of course following his instructions as far as supplementing him with powdered bone and multivitamin. He is doing wonderfully well. Of course it is more work because you need to cook the ingredients and then mix it daily but I am happy to do it if it means he is healthier and is getting less preservatives. Sometimes the dry kibbble is not for most dogs and something in them makes them sick. That would be another option where you control what you give him and they prefer natural food anyway. Try taking him to another vet and ask about that. On a side note, Royal Canin and Proplan have recipes for doggies with digestive issues but you must first determine what he might be allergic to. Hope this helps!

[anonymous]

What about Pro Plan? https://www.k9ofmine.com/best-low-sodium-dog-food/ excerpt below

1. Purina Pro Plan Focus Sensitive Skin & Stomach Salmon & Rice Formula
About: Pro Plan Focus is a salmon-and-rice-based recipe that is designed for dogs with stomach sensitivities or food allergies. Salmon and rice are typically not allergens and most dogs are able to digest this food easily.
Price: $$
Features:
Salmon is the first listed ingredient.
Made with antioxidant-rich ingredients to help promote immune system function
Fortified with omega fatty acids to ensure joint, skin and coat health
Made without any artificial colors, artificial flavors, corn, wheat or soy

PROS: Purina Pro Plan Focus has the least sodium per calorie of any of the five foods recommended here. Most dogs appear to love the taste, and it may also provide some relief from food allergies.

CONS: Additionally, Pro Plan is made without any probiotics to help regulate intestinal function; however, it does include prebiotic ingredients, which can help support any beneficial bacteria already present in your dog’s digestive tract.
Ingredients:
Salmon, Canola Meal, Brewers Rice, Barley, Oat Meal, Fish Meal (Source of Glucosamine), Animal Fat Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols, Salmon Meal, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Natural Flavor, Inulin, Fish Oil, Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite. J-4449.
Sodium Content:
50 milligrams / 100 Calories

[aimee]

Hi Barry C,
Anon isn’t the only negative review see Cannoli’s post. I also not a fan of NuVet. I don’t see that it would harm … just don’t see that would do any good when added to a complete and balanced diet. Maybe things have changed since I last inquired, but the company would not provide me with a nutrient analysis of the product. This is always a red flag for me. Can they not provide it because they don’t know? And if they don’t routinely test their product to be able to provide a average nutrient analysis what else aren’t they testing?

Mainly I see it as a supplement for people …. it supplements their income when they get others to buy it: )

[anonymous]

Just because you don’t believe in science based medicine, you don’t have to attack those that do. Most supplements are scams and most people that have medical backgrounds know that, they just have to read the ingredients and the disclaimer on the bottle to confirm.

Homeopathic views are very different than traditional medicine. If that’s what you choose to believe. Good luck.