[marie d]

Hi, im trying to get some advice for taking my boy off kibble and putting him onto raw please. Im so nervous to get it wrong and cause him any harm so would really your help. A little background on him, he is a 9 1/2 year labrador that has been on kibble his whole life. I stupidly thought that as we were getting him the expensive kibble we were feeding him the best. He has been on royal canin gastro for the past 2 years due to him having gastro issues sll his life. The vet came to the conclusion he has an intolerance to fat so needs to be on the low fat diet which has worked for him as we havent had any gastro issues for 2 yr now whilst on this food. Whst he has though is cancer now twice in the past 18 months, both mast cell tumours which led us to start looking into whats in his food. We really want to get him off kibblebas strongly feel that this has contributed to him getting cancer. Ive red so much conflicting info on how to change from dry to raw and am so confused as to what will be best for him. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post 🙁

[Ryan K]

Thank you for the advice. I wonder why they attack dying pack members? That’s interesting. Is it a survival of the fittest type thing? Kill the weak? Hmmmm. My other dog is such a wimp that I could never envision him doing anything remotely close to that though. He has never even “play bit” at me…even when he was a 9 week old puppy! I thought something was wrong with him cause he was so mellow and has never even licked me unless I have something actually ON me that is worth licking. But, anything is possible.

I’m really not liking my senior dog’s behavior right now. She has been getting up and going for water every few minutes. I take her out and she wanders the yard aimlessly and has foam coming out of her mouth. I’ve never seen her like that before. It’s too late to do anything now since my vet is closing in a half hour and I have no car at the moment. I wonder if I should call them to ask if the foaming and excessive drinking is normal? 🙁

[anonymous]

Sorry, I was afraid it might be to late for the aquatic therapy. I have a young adult terrier that I sneak over to the lake for swimming (mild arthritis) and it seems to be helping him.

I recently had to say goodbye to a 16 year old small breed, he had spinal degenerative issues and did well on rimadyl for a while, but the side effects (diarrhea) put a stop to that. Anyway, the dementia was even harder to deal with. They are worse at night. Funny thing though, he loved to eat…… at the end he was on an antipsychotic that had strong sedative effects.
All you can do is try to keep them comfortable for as long as you can. With seniors you need the guidance of a good vet to help you decide how much treatment you want to put the dog through. Care and comfort vs aggressive treatment.

PS: Make sure you know where the nearest 24 hour emergency veterinary clinic is, in case she takes a turn for the worse and your regular vet isn’t available. Peace

[Ryan K]

My 14 year old Old English Sheepdog is pretty much at the end phase of her life and we are all heartbroken over it. She has been fairly sick over the last few weeks with a lack of appetite and her hind legs giving out. Our vet has said that she has nerve degeneration in her spine that is causing her back legs to gradually slide out from under her. With a small dog this is a bit easier to handle with carrying them and getting them around but with a 65 pound dog it’s not that easy. I wondered if there was any supplement that people have given their dogs for aiding the nerves in regenerating or getting better? I read that the mushroom Lion’s Mane is great for humans but haven’t heard how much a dog could tolerate. I would love to keep my dog going cause she’s so vibrant despite her age and these new hindrances. We love her so much and this has been a rough couple weeks with thinking the end is near. Is it a waste or stupid to try new supplements at this point? I brought her in to the vet today thinking it was the end for her after a long night of heavy panting and only eating canned food that she KNOWS has no pills in. She has suddenly become a detective with finding her meds hidden in wrapped treats and spits them out and it’s just crazy! But, he said that although she is old and not feeling well he thinks she looks good and can go a bit longer and he didn’t recommend euthanasia which was a relief. I don’t want to prolong her pain or make her stick around just to avoid that decision.

Any recommendations for senior dog supplements for the nervous system would be great. Also, she is allergic to brewers yeast so I have to avoid that ingredient. Thanks!

[anonymously]

Why does the dog need supplements?

I would take the dog to a vet, has he had a senior workup? Labs, exam etc. If not, that is where I would start. Get him diagnosed and then evaluate the treatment options presented.
Supplements are not medication.

[Natalie M]

I was buying ideal balance and just heard it is being discontinued. I was having it auto shipped through chewy.com need a good food to replace it with. I have one senior, one adult and one that is sensitive to high protein diet and got sick off ones too high in protein (like blue buffalo) or too cheap (like nibbles and bits) HELP

[anonymously]

“Thank you for posting so that I can see a neurologist and have knowledge”.
@ Susie:
I would start with a regular veterinarian, find one close to home, ask dog owners in your community who they go to/recommend.
She needs a senior workup, labs and exam to begin with.
What you describe sounds neurological, it is not recommended to give a dog with a neurological condition any vaccine, so just decline and remind them she is a senior and she is not medically stable if they bring it up.

Do not give over the counter meds or supplements to your pet unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined her. You have no idea what you are treating and could make the situation worse. Especially with medications that are intended for humans.
First thing is to get her diagnosed by a veterinarian and then evaluate the treatment options that are presented. I wouldn’t make any diet changes right now either.

[InkedMarie]

This is an updated list of grain & white potato free foods. I included dry food only, no wet, raw, dehydrated or freeze dried. I included no part of white potato. Some foods on the prior list have been discontinued and a couple I can’t find ingredient lists for. I used the foods websites, not a pet food sellers website.

ACANA-Meadowland Regional
Wild Atlantic Regional
Appalachian Ranch Regional
Heritage
Heritage Freshwater Fish
Lamb & apple singles
Pork & squash singles
duck & pear singles
Wild Mackerel singles
Grasslands

AMICUS-small & mini breed adult
small & mini breed senior & weight management
small & mini breed puppy

ANNAMAET-Salcha Poulet

ARTEMIS-Osopure salmon
Osopure bison

AVODERM-senior health
joint health grain free chicken
Revolving Menu-all

BACKWOOD-buffalo & field pea
chicken & field pea
salmon & field pea

BROTHERS COMPLETE-all

BY NATURE-grainfree turkey & sweet potato
grain free ocean whitefish & green peas

CALIFORNIA NATURAL-all grain frees

CANIDAE-PURE Land
Pure Wild

CANINE CAVIAR-grainfree puppy
Leaping Spirit
Open Sky
Wild Ocean

CHICKEN SOUP-grainfree beef
grain free lamb

DAVES-both grain frees

DOG FOR DOG (formerly Freehand) both grainfree’s

DOGSWELL-Live Free salmon
Live Free chicken
Live Free turkey
Live Free lamb

EARTHBORN-Great Plains Feast
Meadow Feast
Large Breed
weight control

EVANGERS-grainfree whitefish & sweet potato
grain free chicken
grain free Meat Lovers Medley

EVO-all

FROMM-4 Star lamb & lentil
4 star pork & peas

GO! Sensitivity & Shine LID Duck
Sensitivity & Sine LID salmon
Sensitivity & Shine LID venison
Sensitivity & Shine grain free turkey

GRANDMA MAE’S COUNTRY NATURALS-grainfree only

GREAT LIFE-Dr E’s LID buffalo
Dr E’s LID duck
buffalo
salmon
chicken

HALO-Vigor turkey, chicken & salmon

HEALTH EXTENSION-grainfree buffalo & whitefish
grain free venison & chickpea
grain free duck & chickpea
grainfre salmon, herring & peas

HI TEK NATURALS-lamb, sweet potato & herring
chicken & sweet potato
Alaskan fish

HOLISTIC BLEND-Marine 5

HOLISTIC SELECT-grainfree adult health

HORIZON-Pulsar: fish
chicken
turkey
Legacy: salmon
adult
puppy

I AND LOVE AND YOU-salmon & trout
Nude: Simply Sea
Poultry Palooza
Red meat medley
Naked Essentials-lamb & bison
chicken & duck

KASIKS-Wild Pacific Ocean
Free Range lamb
Free Run Chicken

LOTUS-oven baked grain free turkey

MERRICK-grainfree rabbit & chickpea
grain free venison & chickpea

MUENSTER-grainfree all life stages

NATURAL BALANCE-Wild Pursuit: Trout/Salmon/Tuna
chicken/turkey/quail
lamb/chicken/guinea fowl
LID: legume & duck
legume & Wagyu Beef

NATURAL PLANET-rabbit & salmon
duck & whitefish

NATURAL PLANET ORGANICS-all grain frees

NATURES RECIPE-grainfree chicken, sweet potato & pumpkin

NATURES VARIETY-Instinct: all

NRG-Optimum line

NULO-all

NUTRISCA-all grainfree

NUTRISOURCE-grainfree chicken & pea
grain free seafood select
grain free lamb & pea
grain free small breed chicken
grain free Prairie Select

ORIJEN-all

PET BOTANICS-Healthy Omega chicken
Healthy Omega salmon
Healthy Omega lamb

PET KIND-all

PINNACLE-grainfree trout & sweet potato
grain free duck & sweet potato
grain free chicken & sweet potato

PIONEER NATURALS-all grain free

PRECISE-both grain frees

SOLID GOLD-Mighty Mini
Lil Boss
high protein with duck

SPORT DOG FOOD-Elite Beef
Elite whitefish
Elite chicken
Elite venison

TASTE OF THE WILD-Appalachian Valley
Pine Forest
Southwest Canyon

TUSCAN NATURALS-Ocean

UNDER THE SUN-All grain frees

VICTOR-grainfree active dog & puppy
Yukon River
lamb
chicken
Ultra Pro
Hero

WELLNESS-Core Wild Game
adult chicken
Tru Food: adult salmon & turkey
adult lamb
adult chicken
puppy

WILD CALLING-Rocky Mountain Medley-all
Western Plains Stampede all
Xotic Essentials-all

WYSONG-Epigen 90

ZIGNATURE-LID trout & salmon
LID kangaroo
LID turkey
LID lamb
LID duck
LID whitefish
Essential multi protein

ZOIC-all

4 HEALTH-puppy
small breed adult

[Jenn H]

Follow the usual protocol.
For whatever reason these past couple yrs I have known so many dogs with HW. Until then never knew any.
They followed the advice of their vets and all dog are back to normal. It’s a long treatment that can cause discomfort, but it’s a situation where you have to weight the risk/reward. Suffering with the disease will be much more uncomfortable.
Personally I would go with what is known to work and ask the vet how to alleviate any discomfort from side effects.

As for future prevention ask your vet about NOT giving a monthly preventative and opting for fecal testing every 3-4 months. That way your senior dog isn’t being fed pesticides/antiparacitics when she doesn’t need it.

You are great for adopting an older dog. And one with an illness not less. I wish you many years of health & joy with her.

[Alecka S]

I’ve got a papillion/chihuahua mix named Coco Bean that is 18 years old (yes, 18 years old), &I was wondering if there is a good food out there for extremely senior pets like mine? It’s got to be something soft, her teeth are bad now and she can’t crunch up hard kibble anymore.

Right now I have her on FreshPet rolls and cans of Solid Gold (I normally feed her FreshPet but have been transitioning her to Solid Gold to see if she likes it). She’s eating fine any is somewhat active, I don’t have any issues with the food I’ve been giving her but I still wanted to ask and see if there were any brands of dog food that would be better for her since she is as old as she is..

*NOTE:* Please don’t start to tell me about how hard food is much better for her because it helps clean her teeth etc, etc. I know that, but her teeth are really bad and it wouldn’t be safe to put her under at this point in life to attempt to clean her teeth.

[anonymously]

Another thought. Have you tried adding a little plain homemade chicken broth or warm water to the kibble? Make sure she is drinking adequate amounts of water, especially if she is a senior or you don’t see her go to the water bowl often.

[Kristi G]

Does anyone know if there is any connection or validity to high protein food increasing kidney levels in senior dogs?

[Kristi G]

Thank you for your input! We were actually on Wellness Core Reduced Fat and my vet told me that high protein foods were bad for seniors. Her kidney’s levels were slightly up and asked me to switch to a lower protein food. I’m starting to wonder if my vet could be wrong. Bella looked and seemed to feel healthier than ever on it. Any one know if there is any validity or connect to high protein food and senior kidney levels?

[Kristi G]

I am having a problem with my 12-year-old Yorkie, we have a weight problem.

She should be at 7-7.5 pounds but we are pushing 8.5-9 pounds. I was feeding her Wellness Core and that nipped the problem in the bud. Her weight was down, she loved the food, and felt healthier than ever. Then, the vet said her kidney levels were a little high and advised me to not feed her a high protein food and feed her a senior food instead. I then used the site again and started using Blue Wilderness Senior Grain Free, she was back up in weight in no time. We don’t do treats or bones so no culprit there. Pet Smart recommended Wellness Complete Health Senior, but she won’t eat the food so I can’t tell if it will work or not. We are still in the process of switching. She’s not typically a fickle eater and is usually quite the opposite-always ready to eat. But she turns her nose up to Wellness Complete Health Senior.

I want a dry (teeth are good), 5 Star Senior Food that won’t make her fat and will keep her at a Healthy Weight. Anyone have any recommendations? I’ve been trying to find something right for her for almost 2 years now and am desperate to find the right thing for my baby.

[InkedMarie]

Nutro is a lower quality food & Blue isn’t one we recommend much around here.
Look at either Annamaet lean or Wellness Core reduced fat. You don’t need a senior food; with the exception of Orijen senior, most are too low in protein.

[Jason R]

My Golden Retriever just turned 10yrs old and he is about 12-15lbs heavier than the vet would like. He was diagnosed about three months ago with Cushing’s disease. I’ve been waiting until we found the right medication/dosage to treat the Cushing’s before I made any dietary changes.

For the last few years, he has been eating Blue FREEDOM ‘Healthy Weight’ dry food. He also has been getting 1/3 can of wet BLUE Freedom Senior Chicken as a topper. The more I learn about BLUE, the less I like them. Their food is also overpriced when there are foods of similar or better quality available for less.

We finally got the Cushing’s medication to the necessary level a few weeks ago. At that point, I had researched a lot of foods and decided to switch to NUTRO. In particular, I’m feeding him NUTRO Lite Chicken flavor dry food and NUTRO Large Breed Adult Weight Management canned food (again, as a topper). I also supplement his food with green beans, green peas and sometimes half of a sweet potato as a treat.

I’m curious if anyone else here uses NUTRO and, if so, what is their opinion of it?

[anonymously]

I don’t doubt that over-vaccination is real. After puppyhood, I give nothing but the rabies as required by law, if I could avoid that too, I would after the initial 1st shot and booster.
Also, I will avoid giving the rabies vaccine to a senior or a dog with a medical condition.
Some states will consider a medical waiver, as your dog probably has, or a titer.

I hope you get some answers, by the way, SkeptVet is a real vet and tends to answer most questions even if it’s an old article. Maybe he could offer some insight?
I lost a dog to hemangiosarcoma a few years ago (no treatment options) and she had minimal vaccinations. I’ve never gotten a straight answer as to what causes this except there tends to be a genetic link and it tends to appear between ages 8-10.

[InkedMarie]

With the exception of Orijen senior, I think most senior foods are too low in protein. They need a higher protein quality food.

[anonymously]

Nutrisca has small kibble, check chewy.com reviews. I presoak my senior’s kibble overnight in the fridg, using water or plain homemade chicken broth. Some of these seniors don’t drink enough H20.

[pitlove]

Hi Jo C-

AAFCO does not have a nutrient profile at this time for a senior dog. Senior dog formulas are simply an adult maintenance diet, usually with lower protein, fat and calories. Many here, including myself do not use a senior formula for their senior pets. For my 8 year old Lab, I simply monitor his calories closely and make sure that he maintains an ideal weight.

Keeping senior dogs (and really any dog of any age) at at 4/9 on the Purina Body Condition Score, is of uttmost importance. This keeps stress off their joints, bones, heart etc. According to research done by Purina, a dog kept at ideal weight can have their life extended by 15% (1.8 years). I would say this is one of the most important things to help keep senior dogs healthy.

What are you feeding currently? Is she healthy? Good weight or overweight? Good bloodwork? 13 is a very good age for a pitbull. It sounds to me like whatever you have been doing thus far is working well.

[Jo C]

HI,

I was looking on a couple post about senior dogs and dry dog food. Some people say to feed a senior dog my baby is 13 years old a higher protein food. Does the carbs and fats matter as when I’m looking up dog food to see what they are rating at. When I look the brands up I see the percentages and I usually see 22-25 % range for protein but the carbs and fats are high, basically I don’t know what to look for as a proper diet for her she has no digestive issues or anything like that.

[Bobby dog]

Hello again wendy w:
Sounds like you are on top of your pups health!!

I understand the changing digestive systems of seniors all too well lately. I have a horse in his mid 30’s, two 18 year old kitties, my dog and other cats are considered seniors as well, but you would never know it so I won’t label them yet. I just recently sorted out a new feeding regimen for my sr. horse due to digestive issues.

If you don’t find what you are looking for at Balance IT another option would be to consult a Vet Nutritionist. Here’s the ACVN site for boarded nutritionists:
http://www.acvn.org/directory/

[anonymously]

You have to be extra careful with seniors (age 7 and above) regarding flea/tick control, vaccinations.

Maybe try a topical or a tick collar, minimal vaccinations (if any). If you can, keep them out of woods and tall grass. Bathe frequently, groom and check nightly for ticks, continue heartworm testing/preventive according to how your vet advises for your specific pet.

[Robyn O]

We lost our beloved chihuahua Piper almost 6 weeks ago and I’m still torn up about it. She was just the best dog and she is so missed.

We got her from a family friend who had to go to a nursing home. Piper was 10 years old at the time and lost the only home she’d ever known. I knew she’d need extra care and to be spoiled and that’s what we did. I was battling cancer at the time and I think she knew I needed extra care too. We became immediate, fast friends. I loved learning that even though she was a senior dog, she loved to play. She was silly and goofy and loved people. She could be a little shy at first but once you were her friend, you were her friend for life.

She became my comfort during my treatment and the pain that followed. She would comfort me when I cried and made me laugh every single day. Some days, she was the only thing that kept me going. I didn’t give up because of her and I owe her my life to her!

She was diagnosed with congestive heart failure at 13. We nursed her back to health and she was doing so well on her medication!! The doctors thought she could live for several years, she responded so well. But In late June, everything changed. She was fine on Tuesday. On Wednesday, she was running into walls. By Wednesday afternoon, she’d lost the use of her front left leg. We rushed her to the vet and they kept her overnight to monitor her. They told us she’d gone completely blind and that they hoped it was a stroke. She could recover from that. She continued to go downhill and they advised us that it was probably a brain tumor. We (and the vets) couldn’t believe it!! Her condition was grave but she was stable so we decided to bring her home. We had the most wonderful weekend with her. She rallied for us and even began to walk again. She was blind but knew we were there for her. We didn’t leave her side all weekend. We honestly thought the vet had made a mistake. That she’d recover. But by Monday morning she wasn’t eating. That evening, she began to have uncontrollable seizures. We couldn’t watch her suffer anymore.

The second seizure had made her scared but when we brought her to the vet I just think she knew it was time and calmed down immediately. That wasn’t normal for her. She was ready. I wasn’t. But I tried to be calm and I held my best friend through the whole thing. It was a peaceful end for her. I’m grateful for that.

I’ve been devastated ever since. She gave me so much more than I could ever have given her. She was kind, funny and sweet. She knew my heart and I knew hers. She was my companion almost 24/7 and I love her more than words can ever say. I do believe that dogs go to Heaven and that I’ll see her again. Until then, I cry tears for her every day. I’ll see you again, sweet Piper, my little love!!!!

[Susan]

Hi I started to feed Patch “Holistic Select” Senior the fat is only 10% fat & the fiber-3.50%, Holistic Select fat & fiber is lower then the Wellness Core, Wellness Core reduced fat is too high in fiber at 8.5% fiber, maybe that’s the problem, the Holistic Select Senior fiber is 3.50%…….
Wellpet makes Wellness, Holistic Select & Eagle Pack, maybe try changing brands also I feed Kibble for breakfast & I make rissoles, I buy the lean pork mince & add some chopped parsley & make 1 cup amount size rissoles & make into a long rissole, not round & bake in the oven so any excess fat comes out, I freeze the rissoles & also boil sweet potato or pumkin & freeze the sweet potato & pumkin in section….. For dinner I feed 1 rissole (1cup) with 1/4cup sweet potato & the weight fell off Patch & I didn’t want him to loss weight 🙁 so only feeding 1 meal kibble & the other meal a cooked meal is better then feeding 2 means with kibble….
http://www.holisticselect.com/

[Robin F]

Thank you Anonymously! We did have senior exam done just days ago. She does get walked 3-4 times daily. Morning 6am, noon time when my husband comes home for lunch, 6pm when he gets home from work and then just a short walk to urinate at 10/11. We have two dogs, so feeding multiple times in the day is almost impossible.
I did purchase the very lean beef I mentioned. They both seem to be only eating the wet food and leaving most of the dry. I think for a few nights I will not add anything. I’m afraid she will not be nourished properly.
I appreciate your advice. Thank you so much!

[anonymously]

I am assuming medical issues have been ruled out for the weight gain, senior workup etc. Check with your vet before making any drastic changes to the diet.
Best of luck

[Robin F]

As Anonymously suggested, the best thing to do is have a senior dog exam. Once you know exactly what is going on, then you can check out the holistic solutions. You definitely will want to give a low fat diet as not to put excess weight on your pet. I myself have an overweight senior girl with arthritis and now a fatty tumor. She is already on medication that I hate for her to be on. I have been hearing about turmeric from friends and family members, but you have to be careful with that as well. So, take your baby to the vet for full senior exam and then do your research. You will know better what you need to do.

[Robin F]

Hello Everyone,
My Natasha is almost 10 years old and weighs 125 pounds. She has arthritis and has a fatty tumor which I was told should shrink when she looses weight. I finally trained the husband not to give table food or cook chopped beef to mix in food! She is eating Wellness Cores Reduced Fat dog food. She hardly never eats all of what she is given (2 cups once a day) which I do top with half a can of one of the stews from Blue since the chopped beef is gone! Does anyone know if there are supplements to help the weight loss, but without her getting diarrhea or having to go potty all the time? She is limping quite a bit and is already on pain meds (Tramadol and Rimadyl).
Thank you, Robin

[anonymously]

You may find some helpful information here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/
See: “More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets”
Posted on July 20, 2016 by skeptvet

PS: Canine environmental allergies get worse with age, consider consulting a board certified veterinary dermatologist regarding “skin problems”.
/forums/search/allergies/

Also, has he had a senior workup, labs, etc? If not, I would start there.

[Bonnie G]

Regarding Merrick Ltd Ingredient food – I have fed my 8 1/2 yr old boxer/lab Merrick since he came to us at 6 months of age. He had a very touchy digestive system when we got him & had to try several foods before we got one that agreed with his stomach. He eats Merrick dry chicken & sweet potato supplemented with Merrick 96% Grain Free canned. The vet just this week advised me to put him on a senior version. Hope this helps and good luck with your pup!

[Val C]

Hi Amateria,
I have a photo of the hair in the Sunday Pets Deliganics (for Senior) dog food.
How do I post it in this forum though?

I’ve asked the pet shop (in Singapore) who sold me the food and it seems like there’s been multiple complaints before of the same issue.
The pet shop was nice enough to allow me to exchange for another product.
The response from Sunday Pets to the pet shop was that those are part of the herbs ingredients. Those little short strands of black & white “hair” certainly do not resemble any herbs I know of, in my view. It brings me to wonder what animal and what was the process of producing the food. With a very imaginative mind, I see the image of whole animal parts (with fur / hair etc.) being thrown into a grinding machine! 🙁

[anonymously]

Hi, Marika M

At the age of 8 your dog is due for a senior workup, a physical, lab work and whatever else your veterinarian determines is necessary.

No one on the internet, no matter how much they consult Dr Google can tell you what is wrong with your dog or advise you accordingly.

Only a veterinarian that has examined your dog and reviewed it’s history can diagnose and give you an educated guess as to how to proceed with the care of your dog.

If I were you, I would select a veterinarian close to home and make an appointment, today.
All of the maladies you mentioned are possible, all require the care and treatment prescribed by a veterinarian.

Please try to listen….I have learned these things the hard way.

PS: Obtain a urine sample if you can, use a clean empty prescription pill bottle….sounds like it could be crystals. If you can’t, don’t worry about it. The vet can strait cath, it only takes a second and does not hurt the dog. It actually provides a more sterile sample.

[Jennifer R]

Does anyone know of a dry dog food that has absolutely no form of legumes or poultry but that has a rating of 4 or 5? I’m probably looking right at it, but I can’t for the life of me find one.

I have a senior Akita who has liver and gallbladder issues and food intolerances. He’s refusing homecooked food and canned food (refusing as in not eating for days). He will eat kibble right now, but I’m having a hard time finding a quality kibble without legumes and poultry. He’s also sensitive to corn, soy, and goat, but he really can’t tolerate any form of legumes or poultry.

His vet recommends Royal Canin, which has chicken fat and causes gas. I was ready to try Natural Balance LID or California Natural but then I saw the ratings. At this point I realize grain free foods are out because they replace grains with legumes, but isn’t there a quality meat-based kibble that uses grain not legumes? Are all kibble with grains plant-based?

Any ideas would help! It’d be great if the kibble were also low fat while still being high in protein, but I’ll settle for meat-based, above 4 stars with no legumes or poultry of any form.

Thanks!

[C4D]

Hi Kyle E,

That seems to be Merricks new marketing tool. Your dog would have to eat roughly 1 kg or 2.2 pounds of food to get a 1200mg dose of glucosamin and chondroitin on the Backcountry Game Bird and Great Plains recipe. The other 2 formulas have 800 mg/kg(2.2 lbs). Most joint supplements have a higher dosage than that and when you have a dog that already has joint or hip issues you definitely need separate supplementation. It doesn’t necessarily have to be from the vet. Some of the supplements Susan mentioned could be a good possibility. I use a supplement that has Green Lipped Mussel. I haven’t used the Turmeric Golden paste yet as my dog hasn’t showed any symptoms of pain. Anonymously is right about the senior blood panels and feeding a lower calorie food if your dog is getting on the heavy side. I do yearly blood panels on my dogs. It gives you a heads up on possible issues before the symptoms appear or have progressed too far.

I also have an almost 12 year old Lab that has bad knees due to torn CCL’s several years ago. I have been supplementing with fish oil (human) and joint supplements for years now. She does well, even though she has diagnosed arthritis in both knees. She goes for a brisk 1-2 mile walk daily, with her choosing to jog most of the way. The other most important thing you can do is to keep your dog on the lean side and daily walks to keep the joints from getting stiff. If you haven’t been walking or exercising your Lab on a daily basis, start very slow.

Edit: I don’t know how much 1 cup of Merrick weighs (I couldn’t find it on their website) and all dog foods are different, but as an example, I use Earthborn in my rotation and it states on it’s website that an 8oz cup of Great Plains holds 4.8 oz of food. So, if Merrick’s weight is comparable and if I did the math right, that would be feeding over 10 cups of food to get the 1200 mg dose of supplement. That’s a LOT of food.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by C4D.

[Susan]

Hi Kyle, I think your better off adding a joint supplement to the diet, there’s a few out there I’ve been looking at “Rose Hip Vital Canine” its suppose to work very well but when I spoke with the rep he said America doesn’t have the Rose Hip Vital Canine yet but will be getting it very soon. it comes from Denmark & imported to Australia, the human Rose Hip Vital is the same as the canine Rose Hip Vital, I was going to take it myself, send them a email asking when it will be in America, its for treating inflammation, maintaining healthy joints takes away inflammation pain, they are finding its helping people with Crohns Disease as well that’s why I’m interested in using it on Patch cause he has IBD & it will help him with his inflammation of the stomach as well as his joints..
http://rosehipvitalcanine.com.au/

There’s Sasha’s Blend is another good joint supplement invented in Australia for a dog called Sasha, I’m pretty sure you can buy in America….
http://www.sashasblend.com.au/cb_pages/what_makes_special.php

Turmeric Powder you make “Golden Paste” Turmeric Powder, Coconut Oil & Black Pepper, join the Turmeric Users Group on Face Book the recipe is in the files, people swear by Turmeric Powder https://www.facebook.com/groups/415313751866609/

I’ve just ordered a bag of the “Holistic Select Senior” kibble, it has 750mg/kg of Glucosamine but I was still going to add either the Rose Hip Vital Canine powder to meal or try the Turmeric Golden paste as well… but I’m pretty sure kibble with added Glucosamine is not as strong as the supplements for joint problems/Arthritis they have more Glucosamine & Green Lipped Mussel then kibble…
Some one my know more about Senior kibbles…..

[anonymously]

First, has the dog had a senior workup? Exam and lab work. If not, I would start there.
Supplements are not medication. I would find a veterinarian that you trust and that your dog likes, and go by his recommendations.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=glucosamine
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/

“The internet is no substitute for talking with a vet who knows you and your pets about their specific needs.” copied from a response to a question: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/things-holistic-vets-say-about-cancer-that-should-make-pet-owners-run-the-other-way/comment-page-1/#comment-119501

PS: It doesn’t hurt to go with a higher quality food, however, some of the better foods are higher in calories, so, if you have a senior inactive dog, that is something to keep in mind.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by anonymously.

[pugmomsandy]

Foods do not contain a therapeutic dose of joint supporting supplements so that shouldn’t be a deciding factor for choosing a wet (or dry) food. I would check into separate powder, liquid, capsule or chewable joint/senior supplements. And if you haven’t already, check to see if she has any dental or gum issues and have a check up with blood work.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/arthritis.html

[Kyle E]

My good Labrador friend is getting old and beginning to have problems with her joints and energy level. She’s also not eating very much of her food anymore, even though I buy her the expensive Taste of the Wild dry food. I want to switch to wet canned food to see if that improves her appetite. Does anyone have information on a quality, healthy, and tasty canned food that is formulated for all the problems senior dogs have, especially aching joints?

[anonymously]

I do a gentle ear cleaning with a mild solution once a week, that seems to help.

PS: I might try to avoid vaccinations for a dog that has a medical condition, especially if they are a senior.

[Susan]

Hi Shannon, Shawna has a good point maybe the new food digests better & look at the poo size?? another thing I have found with some weight management & senior less active kibbles they put more carbs & less protein, if they put the percentage % of the protein meats & the Percentage % of the plant proteins you’d see a different in the analysis…I always look at the fiber % if its over 4% fiber I don’t feed….. When we read the protein % that’s plant & meat proteins, not just meat proteins…..if kibble companies were honest we would see percentage on the meat & the percentage on the carbs, % on everything… We need to start asking these companies what is the percentage on the meat proteins… some kibble companies write the meat % in the ingredients next to the meat…..another thing Duck isn’t a lean meat where salmon is more lean but when I looked the fat % was the same 16% but that’s min fat.. I wonder what the max fat % is… I always email the kibble company & ask what is the max fat%… I know when I buy a kibble with lower fat 8-11% the weight just drops off Patch…maybe try another kibble that’s lower in fat…..Was the Simply Nourish pea heavy?? eg; pea fiber, peas, chick peas, pea flour?? peas, potatoes & chickpeas all boost up the protein %….

[Shawna]

Hi Katie C,

There definitely is LOTS of opinions on right from wrong with raw feeding. I think there are three really important factors and everything else is just opinion — 1. No matter what you decide to feed, minimally processed food is always going to be an improvement over highly processed food. 2. The diet MUST be balanced. That said, except for calcium/phosphorus, the balance can happen at every meal or over a weeks time. 3. Variety in the diet (even if feeding commercial prepared, balanced foods) is absolutely a must.

I’ve been feeding raw to about 35/40 dogs over the last 11 to 12 years (my own and foster dogs). I’ve weaned pups onto raw and fed 19 year old seniors raw. I personally don’t feed grains or many starchier vegetables but if the pup isn’t having specific issues these can help keep the diet financially friendly. 🙂 I personally DO like small amounts of fruits (about 5% of total diet) and veggies (about 15 to 20%). They are not necessary, I will totally agree, but they do add a lot of nutrient bang for the buck when properly processed. Since our pups live in a somewhat toxic environment those extra antioxidants etc can only be beneficial in my opinion. I live pretty clean but my pets are exposed to formaldehyde in a few pieces of particle board furniture in my house as well as the anti-stain coating on furniture and rugs. I don’t spray my yard but my neighbors do. Then there’s car exhaust and………

I mostly feed commercial raw, right now I have more money than time. But I do buy meat on sale and use a premix to help balance it. I also have freeze dried raw, and even kibble, on hand for those days I literally run in to feed the dogs and run back out, or maybe I’ve got the flu and don’t even want to get out of bed let alone dish up meals for seven dogs.

There are recipes in books and online that you can use but, as mentioned, I don’t think it’s good to rely on one recipe all the time. Dr. Karen Becker has a book with recipes called “Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats”. She uses a few supplements but, in my opinion, it’s better to use supplements (even synthetic ones) than to omit that vitamin / mineral from the diet all together because of a bias. Balance IT website is another place where you can create recipes using ingredient you chose and then use their supplement mix to balance the diet. You also DEFINITELY CAN balance over a week but you have to be way more committed to finding and using harder to find ingredients/foods.

To recap, best thing you can do is not get too wrapped up into what is wrong or right and just strive for balance using whatever fits best into your lifestyle, price range and belief system.

[anonymously]

Okay, then. If possible increase activity/walks. Don’t free feed, measured amounts twice a day. Maybe decrease amount…. or 3 small meals a day, sometimes seniors do better with that.

[pitlove]

Hi Jennifer-

To answer your first question, those numbers are the recommendation from the NRC (National Research Council) which in conjuntion with AAFCO, sets the minimums for the nutrient profiles in all dog foods. As far as I know there is no legal obligation to NRC for companies unlike AAFCO, however they influence AAFCO greatly and are a good rule of thumb. These are nutrient guidelines you would want to consider in preparing homemade and raw diets as well.

For number 2, my best advice is what you already know. Keep them lean, all throughout life. I find that I can still feed my older large breed (8 year old 75lb Lab) high calorie foods, but still keep him at a good weight, so long as I consider his activity level and any extras that he gets. I also do prefer leaner meats like chicken, turkey and fish. The other thing that certainly helps their metabolism is them being intact. It’s going to be much different with neutered/spayed dogs, as their energy requirements change. It’s said now, with some of the new research, that senior dogs require more of a high quality protein because of their inability to metabolize protein as efficently as their adult counterparts. Some still argue that high protein damages the kidneys etc. Others argue that processing excess protein is a passive process of the kidneys and has no effect on a healthy dog.

[anonymously]

Has he had a senior workup (labs, exam) to rule out medical causes for the sudden weight gain. If not, I would consider that first and schedule a visit to the vet.

[shannon J]

Thanks! The Pet Wants less active senior food is actually the same calories as the Simply Nourish (I think)…it’s listed as 348 kcal/cup..? That’s why I don’t understand how the old dog would gain 5 pounds eating the Pet Wants.

I did notice Pet Wants is higher in calories for their grain free selections than the Simply Nourish Salmon and Sweet Potato – the younger dogs aren’t gaining weight though. A lab and a labradoodle.

[Jennifer H]

Ok so I have two questions to pose for my fellow Large/Giant Breed folks:

1 – In the article “How to Choose the Best Large Breed Puppy Food and Lower Your Dog’s Risk of Hip Dysplasia” it states:

“Yet fortunately, there’s general agreement among the experts that any food intended for large breed puppies should not only meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for growth, it should also contain:
◾3500 to 4000 calories (kcal) per kilogram of food14
◾3 grams of calcium per 1000 calories of food. That value should not exceed the safe upper limit of 4.5 grams15
◾A calcium-to-phosphorus ratio between 1:1 and 1.5:116
Although most AAFCO compliant puppy foods are suitable for small and medium breeds, only a few meet these special guidelines and can be considered safe for large breed puppies. ”
I am in complete agreement on the grams of calcium and the calcium to phosphorus ratio, but can’t help but wonder about the recommendation to have what I would consider high calories per kilogram of food? Please share your thought and opinions on this as it has me scratching my head:)

Ok, for question 2 — this is a great sharing of information regarding the nutritional needs for Large/Giant breed puppies but I am wondering once your BIG PUPPY reaches adult status and is now a BIG DOG, what is the general opinion/consensus of nutrition needs for the adult or even the senior large/giant breed?

[shannon J]

Hi,

There’s a food called Pet Wants that’s locally sourced and made in Cincinnati, OH (where I live) that we’ve switched our dogs to. Now I’m wondering if it’s really as good as they say. It’s made in small batches and you only buy enough to last 1 month so that your dog has fresh food each month.

Well, we have 2 younger dogs that eat the grain free whitefish and duck flavor and a senior dog (dachshund) that eats the less active senior formula. The dachshund gained 5lbs over the last couple of months and my sister insists it’s the Pet wants food. When I look at the ingredients/nutrition of this food and the Simply Nourish limited ingredient salmon and sweet potato they were previously on they seem about the same to me.

The Pet Wants website is: http://www.petwants.com/

Just looking for some more opinions. The other dogs haven’t gained weight, so. I’m just not sure what to think. We are going to switch the old dog back to Simply Nourish and see what happens, though.

[Elizabeth A]

This is my first post so I’m hoping I’m posting in the correct area.

I’m fostering a dog that’s about 26lbs and has severe skin issues. I was feeding him Nutro Ultra which I was feeding my other dogs. He didn’t seem to have too many problems or maybe he did I just didn’t notice at the time because he was dealing with a severe skin infection. I bought the Senior Small Breed food to give him a more tailored food a few days ago and immediately noticed more chewing and itching so I discontinued and today bought some Merrick Limited Ingredient Salmon + Sweet Potato (dry) and canned just to wet his food down a little.

I’m going to try this food and see if he does better on (he is NOT picky and eats almost anything but all the foods he’s had have been salmon based so we stuck with the Salmon). Has anyone tried it and had good results with Merrick Limited Ingredients diets?

I don’t know how much to feed him. He should be about 15-17 lbs, though some has said around 13 lbs. I’m just trying to get him below 20. Here’s the guidelines from the bag in the relevant ranges:
IW Cals Feed (IW=Ideal Weight)
10lbs 342 1 cup
15lbs 464 1-1/3 cups
20lbs 575 1-2/3 cups
30lbs 780 2-1/4 cups

I don’t want to starve him so do I feed him for the 20lb guide until he hits 20lbs and then go down from there? Or do I feed him for the end goal weight? He’s always looking for a snack, but I don’t want him to be too hungry or starving. Can someone help with what I should start to try and feed him?

Thanks

• This topic was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Elizabeth A.
• This topic was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Elizabeth A.

[anonymously]

It may not be about the food, I have a senior peke who needs help to have a bowel movement. The anal sphincters sometimes don’t work as well as these small breeds age.
I have a medical background so I deal with it, I realize that not everyone can.
Have your vet examine the dog and advise you.

Add water to the food dish, they will lap it up to get to the food, this may help.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals per day, and increase exercise, even a couple of 10 minute walks around the block every day can make a big difference.

Just my opinion, but I would stop all supplements including the coconut oil, unless the vet advises you differently.