Bravecto (chewable flea and tick)

Dog Food Advisor Forums Diet and Health Bravecto (chewable flea and tick)

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  • #86948 Report Abuse

    Yes, C4D. Giving this feature a test drive. The only problem so far appears to be that “nested” replies are indented so much that they can be challenging to read on a mobile phone. At least, when the phone is held in regular portrait position.

    In any case, that problem can be remedied by holding your phone sideways in landscape position.

    Let’s give this feature a try and see how it goes.

    #86951 Report Abuse
    crazy4cats
    Member

    Test Post!

    #86954 Report Abuse
    Connie H
    Member

    I had three Standard Poodles, two 5-year-old females and a 15-year-old male, who kept up and played with the two five year olds. I gave each of them a dose of Bravecto on Wedneday 6-1-2016. The older dog got lethargic after his dose, and this morning (Saturdày, June 4) he was not feeling well and had blood dripping out of his penis. I rushed him to the vet and they did a CBC blood test on him that showed he had no platelets in his blood and his blood would not clot — so he was basically bleeding out. I did not want him to suffer, so i had them put him to sleep. I know it was the right thing to do, but it is still so hard (my dogs are like kids to me and they have better lives than most people). Has anyone had any adverse reactions to Bravecto? I am not sure if Bravecto was the issue with my dog but it was the only thing that was different and he was a very healthy dog with no health issues before I gave him the Bravecto. I am very interested to hear if anyone else has had any significant issues. I will never give Bravecto to any of my dogs àgàin.

    #86956 Report Abuse
    Susan W
    Member

    Connie H, I hope you see this. I am so sorry for your loss. Sadly you are not alone! Please go to Facebook and type in the search bar “Does Bravecto Kill Dogs”. This is a group with about 12,000 members worldwide. Numerous reports of problems after Bravecto. Please join and share what happened to your dog and please report this to Merck. The group can help you do this.

    #86958 Report Abuse
    C4D
    Member

    I am so sorry for your loss. :'(

    #87190 Report Abuse
    cheryl w
    Member

    I lost my dachshund after her second dose of Bravecto. She was hospitalized months after her first dose with kidney and liver failure, but after a long fight, we got her home. I administered a second dose of Bravecto at the end of February 2016. (not having made a connection with the product and her illness) Within a few days Thula started showing signs of being ill. She stopped eating and had severe diarrhea, which had blood in the stools. She was rushed to the vet. She suffered for 5 days from kidney and liver failure, severe anemia and despite attempts to save her, she died in early March. My daughter in law had read some of the adverse effects of this product after her dachshund suffered from dry itchy patches on her skin and said that many reports were showing the same adverse reactions as Thula had. It was only after her death that I found out about Bravecto.
    My eldest dachshund was also treated for dry itchy patches and a rash on her tummy after her first dose. After researching the product, I examined her carefully only to find out that she had developed the same skin condition that she had experienced after her first dose. She is now fully recovered.
    My ridgeback is currently in hospital. She has been seen by three different vets, all giving different diagnosis. She stopped eating suddenly and only after large doses of cortisone, would she take very small portions of soft food. MRI and CT scan, scopes and medication were administered. The scope has revealed ulcers and inflammation in her stomach, we are waiting for the biopsy taken for further information.
    READ THE FACEBOOK PAGE DOES BRAVECTO KILL DOGS FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

    #87367 Report Abuse
    Midge M
    Member

    I, also lost my dog after receiving a prescribed dose, with 22 hours he was dead. I would strongly urge people not to use this drug.. What a horrible way to find out your pet is not tolerant to Bravecto/Fluralaner . I did join FB Does Bravecto Kill Dogs and I did report to Merck and FDA.

    #87375 Report Abuse
    Katerina C
    Member

    Yes and our dog became seriously ill after he got Bravecto from the vet. He stopped eating and felt so unwell that he couldn’t walk down the stairs. We thought he would die. It took good two weeks before he improved. His liver nearly failed. And it’s surely damaged to a certain level now. I can’t believe that any vet can recommend such a crap. I would like to know how many animals (any) had to die in clinical trials for such “medicine”. This product needs to be outlawed and am surprised that the company is not prosecuted yet.

    Please let know as many people possible and tell your vet to update the knowledge on this product.

    There’s a petition on FB page Does Bravecto kill dogs? that you all can sign.

    Kat

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Katerina C.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Katerina C.
    #87690 Report Abuse
    Cathy B
    Member

    I’ve been giving my two dogs (a 110 pound male and a 50 pound female) bravecto for almost two years with no problems to date but because I’ve been following this thread I’m considering getting them off of it. I live in swampland basically, on 40 acres of wooded and watered land where my dogs roam and come in and out of the house. Pills are the only thing I’ve ever found that works on the level of fleas in deep East Texas near Louisiana. Trust me, dips and sprays do nothing to phase fleas in seriously hot and humid climates. Our winters often don’t have freezes and the fleas never die. I have an indoor cat with flea allergies and will not risk ANY fleas getting in my house. Before Bravecto they took a type of pill that I can no longer find. Three different vets I called, the answer was all the same, Bravecto is the only flea pill they sell. So here is my question, do I have any flea pill options if I try to get off of Bravecto? I need the type strong enough that a vet sells them so if none of my local vets carry anything else what are my options?

    #87691 Report Abuse
    anonymously
    Member

    I understand your dilemma, I lost a dog to Lyme, so I now use the lowest dose of pesticide products I can, that are effective. It’s a delicate balance. The natural stuff doesn’t work.

    I have found some good information here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/
    He does answer questions. Hope this helps.

    #88777 Report Abuse
    Cameron R
    Member

    I have read almost all of the posts. I personally am a big fan of Nexgard. We have always had success with Frontline but the thought of a chewable that was tasty for my dog was nice. The vet informed me of Nexgard and Bravecto but was confident that Nexgard was the superior. It is monthly. Bravecto was 3 months so that was a huge red flag because that is triple the medicine in one dose. He assured me that Merial has never had a product in 33 years that has ever had issues. Bravecto was labeled in Europe but some studies were not done here.

    Nexgard started killing the fleas quickly and was 100% effective. There are no fleas, keeping my dog on it monthly will prevent another infestation. I would not feel comfortable with Bravecto but swear by Nexgard.

    #88781 Report Abuse
    Becca
    Member

    Look up the studies on those products, as well as the reviews. Dogs are given human medicine all the time, do you think we could take those products

    #88914 Report Abuse
    Lisa W
    Member

    I gave my 14y/o 35 lb. mutt Bravecto. He was scratched for 3 weeks, had lethargy so bad I thought he was going to die and he lost his hearing. His 3 months were up 8/1/16. He got his pep and energy back, but is still deaf. This is a dangerous medication and would strongly urge anybody contemplating using this medicine not too use it.

    #88915 Report Abuse
    anonymously
    Member

    You have to be extra careful with seniors (age 7 and above) regarding flea/tick control, vaccinations.

    Maybe try a topical or a tick collar, minimal vaccinations (if any). If you can, keep them out of woods and tall grass. Bathe frequently, groom and check nightly for ticks, continue heartworm testing/preventive according to how your vet advises for your specific pet.

    #93720 Report Abuse
    Kate M
    Member

    This is another site I’ve registered on to help get the word out on Bravecto. Our perfectly healthy Old English Sheepdog received 2 doses of this drug: May 24/16 and Aug 21/16. Symptoms starting appearing in June (diarrhea, increased eliminations, hair loss- basically symptoms of poisoning) and we never connected it to this drug, otherwise he’d have been on a detox program immediately. Now we are at the point where his system has been so destroyed by the Fluralaner, that we have to put him down. He is 10 years old and this breed has a life expectancy of 10 – 12 years. We just cannot handle watching him suffer any longer and we are devastated over this. Please, please keep posting your stories and get the word out. I have written to Merck Animal Health Canada and posted on “Does Bravecto kill dogs” and “Is Bravecto safe” facebook pages and signed all petitions that are out there, to remove this drug from the market. Stats so far to July 15/16: 8,520 reported ADE’s (adverse drug events) and from the EMA: 682 deaths.

    #96592 Report Abuse
    Fred C
    Member

    Hi boys and girls
    I have been giving my 18 lb Pomeranian Bravecto for 2 1/2 years and she seems fine. Hasn’t had any fleas since I started and only an occasional tick walking on her not biting . Also bravecto seems to last atleast 6 months on my dog with prescribed dosage given. I wouldn’t suggested you do this but I was curious, and kept a daily watch on her, because we spend at least four hours a day in the park/ woods. Four years ago my dog caught Lyme disease while I had her on Frontline and several other dogs had the same experience. I even had the Lyme shot plus the booster shot and she still got it. Anyway Bravecto works for me and others at the park/woods. Only bad I hear is on the internet, even my vet has heard of no bad results from the product. That’s my two cents . We all got to do what we feel is right for our littl friends , and I’m glad you are all taking the time to research.
    🐾💕👣

    #97060 Report Abuse
    Charles O
    Member

    Nice to hear that the product is working. But i will suggest to you this product also and i know this would help also your dog to get risk of fleas and ticks.Just visit this site.
    http://www.fleatreatmentfordogs.org/

    #99169 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    My vet gave me Bravecto for my 25 lb Cocker Spaniel…I just lost her best buddy another cocker gal due to IMT ( its a immune disorder …rapid onset and destroys the platelets…she basically bled to death after 4 transfusions and over $5000 spent).

    I was very concerend about what set of my gal’s immune disorder and the vet said we never know…allergies, pollen, infection, virus BUT make sue your other gal has a safe flea med.

    I heard many bad things about Bravecto and many good things…I researched this in vet journals and I am now pretty sure that all the stories one hears about how Bravecto wrecked the dogs liver or kidney or caused cancer ..are pure rubbish. The reason…Bravecto is not metablized in the liver or kidneys…instead it is excreted through the instestines and it has the exact same chemical composition going out as it does going in the mouth. Furthermore, science says it passed right through the liver and kidneys…this means your dogs body is not straining to metablize this drug..ad it does not get broken down into waste.

    I’m very sorry to hear all the sad pet owners by I listen to science not conjecture…my guess is all the dogs in the sad stories had something wrong long before being given Bravecto and it is just pure chance the symptoms showed up when they did. Also…having lost my great gal just last week I know for 100% certain that us owners are always looking for a “cause” …what caused this disease or death BECAUSE we don’t want to feel guilty that maybe we missed something earlier…also some owners throught guilt want to blame themselves…oh no I shouldn’t have done this or that.

    Its our human nature as doggie parents. I haven’t yet given the drug to my dog but I am planning to do so later today…and I promise to report back if there are any negative side effects

    #99170 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    oops…forgot to say in my post above…now what I will do to be extra safe is I looked up the effective dosage..my dog at 25.4lbs requires about 150mg less dosage than the 500mg given in the one sized pill for a 25lb spread…you know the if your dog is between 20 to say 50 pounds you give this sized pill.

    It is a chewable tablet so I will best guesstimate giving about 1/3 less trying to err slightly on the side of caution allowing a slightly greater doasage just to be sure but definitely slightly less than the full 500mg tablet.

    can’t hurt and can only help if my dog ends up having ill effects

    #99312 Report Abuse
    Becca
    Member

    That is so not true everything that enters the dog gets filtered through liver and kidneys

    #99314 Report Abuse
    anonymous
    Member

    @ Cameron M
    I wouldn’t advise dividing the tablet (even if scored) the medication is not evenly distributed within the tablet, so that could result in too little or too much medication being consumed.
    Check with the vet that prescribed the medication.
    “Equal distribution of medicine in split tablets is questionable. Studies have shown that the actual dose in each half of a split tablet often is different. So while the two halves may look the same, they don’t necessarily contain equal amounts of medicine. Even if the tablet is scored with a line that runs down the middle, one half may actually have more medicine than the other”.
    Above is an excerpt from:
    http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm171492.htm

    #99315 Report Abuse
    Becca
    Member

    Everything given to the dog goes through stomach , intestines, liver, kidneys , that’s a fact the liver and kidneys acts as filters. Anything put on the skin goes into the bloodstream, and still goes through liver and kidneys. That’s a fact. Those companies make multi millions of dollars per year, the vet get plenty too.

    #99366 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Excellent observation and great advice. I was not aware of the possibility of uneven distribution within the tablet.

    Too late this time as I did chop a littel less than a third off ( saved it and can still administer though). It is a soft tablet so I felt it was safe to cut because it didn’t crumble as a hard tablet would do. However if the med is not even distributed thanks to you I now know I was wrong.

    Thanks!

    #99375 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Yes…I agree…of course everything given orally goes through the Liver and Kidneys…so what? Your statement is as basic as saying all oxygen carried in red blood cells is distributed through out the body.

    My point is that Bravecto is NOT METABOLIZED by the liver or kidneys…it passes through unchanged. This means it is not passed by urine and instead its excreted through the stool with the exact same chemical composition exiting that it has entering the body.

    Your statement leads me to believe you have no knowledge of disease, the endocrine system, metabolisim or how the body reacts to and processes chemical wastes.

    By no means am I saying Bravecto is safe…I truly don’t know yet . BUT I am saying that on paper it makes total sense…the fact that my baby ( Coco) isn’t fighting or trying to break down the chemical seems much safer than any other flea med which results in the dog’s liver or kidneys trying to break down and excrete in the urine. In my mind other flea meds cause a …shal we say “load” on the body when the body tries to rid itself of the chemical.

    Bravecto slowly is released via capilaries in the instestines into the stool…then is passed without the body giving a second glance.

    I do not disagree that any foreign substance in the body is a potential for concern…I am almost 100% organic…my garden…my house and my food when I can control it.

    I also agree that that any flea med has risks BUT I do not like topicals because they are basically the same as roach spray and I worry about the dog ingesting ( and the resulting…here is that word again..metobolizing…the poison to rid it…the stress on the liver and kidneys).

    I used Sentinal before and now that I understand the process I again think of the stress on the liver and kidney.

    Since I live in FL I have to have good flea control…I also have a house in VT where there are many ticks. The bottomline is I weigh the risks vs benefit and in this cause …again on paper since my gal has only been on it for a day plus a few hours…It makes sense to me to use this drug. At least during the worst of flea and tick season.

    If you have a proven and highly effective alternative for me I ask you please let me know…of course I would go organic if given the choice ( if it works)

    #99378 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Sorry…but no…nope you are 100% wrong. Look I don’t sell this…I am not a vet and yes I am concerned since my gal just went on it ( seems fine so far).

    Bravecto is not excreted via urine ( means zero liver or kidney involvement) IT IS SOLELY EXCERETED VIA THE STOOL and I may add it is excreted in the exact same chemical form as it had when administered.

    If you know anything about the body you would immediately know that the liver and kidneys have absolutely no part in this.

    If you have other facts please provide…facts other than conjecture.

    Thanks and my gal Coco thanks you as well

    #99380 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Oops …forgot to say…I do not mean to sound arrogant…I love my dog and sadly just lost my other gal though IMT ( which I mentioned earlier). I am crushed …I also know I need flea prevention because I live in FL…I also need tick prevention because I have a house in VT and my 150 acres has many …many ticks.

    I totally stand with organic…my garden…my yards and my house and my food when I can control. I hate processed chemicals…even vitamins because I know they are not in the natural form of being eaten. Meaning yes a carrot has lots of vitamin A BUT it also has lots of other chemicals which whe haven’t yet looked at and my view is those other chemicals all play a role in the benefits of vitamin A vs just popping a tablet which lacks a carrot’s other beneficial chemicals.

    This drug seems the least harmful…please note my wording…least harmful vs 100% healthy …wohoo ..lets go healthy. To me the benefits are greater than the potential harm and much more so than other meds on the market.

    #99381 Report Abuse
    Susan
    Member

    Hi Cameron M, my vet doesn’t recommend Bravecto especially when you have elderly dog or a dog with health problems….. Bravecto doesn’t just leave the dogs system after 3 months, in Australia some vets are seeing too many side effects & recommending to give dose every 4 months, or just the once for the Summer months, ticks are still being found dead after 5 months after taking just 1 Bravecto chew dose…
    *Bravecto stays in the body way tooo long, I wonder, dogs that are given Bravecto in 5 yrs what health problems will these poor dogs have or what health problems they will be dying from??
    Found this when I googled Bravecto so I copied & paste….

    Susana Wahs shared a link to the group: “Does Bravecto Kill Dogs”?
    Long term side effects. Still finding dead ticks months after last dose ? Some disturbing facts I have found as to why.
    I was researching as to why my dog has had 10 months of lack of appetite following his last dose of Bravecto, my vet came up with all the usual excuses, it is summer, it is warm, dogs eat less in summer, i told them it is Bravecto, my dog was 5 he has always eaten in summer, the house has air conditioning, he lives inside. This lack of appetite carried on through the winter, a full 10 months of putting his meal out for him at 9 am and him not touching it until 9 pm if he bothered at all some days, he always ate two meals a day 12 hours apart before he had his serious adverse reaction to Bravecto. Many days i have had to feed him by hand to encourage him to eat something.
    I was also looking into why at 6 months after his last dose i found Dead attached ticks on his stomach, even though he was not taking any tick and flea treatment, then this April, i found 2 more dead attached ticks on him, 12 months after his last dose, I check him daily for ticks and fleas. Many other people have reported still finding dead attached ticks on their dogs upto a year after the last dose, i wanted to know how it could be and how long can this carry on for ?
    So i started researching to see what the levels of Fluralaner are in the dogs plasma. I found some of the trials which mention the dogs had blood drawn to measure the levels, Fluralaner was quantifiable in plasma for up to 112 days after single oral dose ( they have not published any testing for levels of fluralaner after day 112 for us that are in Countries where we should give Bravecto every 3 months/ 90 days) so from this we know Bravecto is still efficient enough and quantifiable in the plasma to be still killing upto 112 days.
    So then i start to look into the Bravecto Australia, which must be the same ingredients as they refer to the testing trials the same, the only additional testing carried out for its use in Australia was how effective it is against Paralysis ticks, which was an additional test to all the others we see. Australia is sold Bravecto that is to be taken every 4 months/ 120 days as it is still efficent to kill paralysis ticks for 4 months. Flualaner was quantifiable in plasma for up to 143 days after a single oral dose ( they have not published any testing for levels after the 143 days) Results: Fluralaner treatment efficacy against I. holocyclus was 100% at 72 h post treatment. Following re-infestations the efficacy remained at 100% at the 72 h assessments for 115 days and reached 95.7% at 143 days.
    So still 100 per cent efficacy at 115 days ……… And still 95.7% at 143 days. ( Almost 5 months )
    So what would the levels be at say 6 months, 7 months, 8 months, a year, 2 years ?
    It does not just leave your dogs system at the 3 month marker, this is probably how we are seeing long term side effects. What have I done to my dog. He is still not fully recovered 15 months after his dose of Bravecto.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24606874
    http://us.bravovets.com/published-studies-resources.aspx
    http://www.bravecto.com.au/…/bravecto_technical_detailer.pdf

    Pharmacokinetics of fluralaner in dogs following a single oral or intravenous administration. -…
    Parasit Vectors. 2014 Mar 7;7:85. doi: 10.1186/1756-3305-7-85. Randomized Controlled Trial
    NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV|BY KILP S , ET AL.

    Pharmacokinetics

    #99382 Report Abuse
    pitlove
    Member

    Hi Cameron-

    The dog in my avatar is predisposed to seizures and has a variety of allergies and food intolerances, so I have to be careful what I give him. I’m in the south too and have been using Bravecto for a good while now with zero issues. I feel it’s a good product comparatively.

    #99390 Report Abuse
    Jane L
    Member

    This is clearly explained in Dogs Monthly magazine April issue. Part explained the numerous seizures which are a listed possible reaction to the ingredient Fluralaner on the new topical though not added to the oral stil.

    Regarding liver and kidneys it says :-

    “Fluralaner will in fact pass through both the liver and the kidneys but is not metabolised by either and is excreted in the faeces in the same form. I concede that the drug is not metabolised by the liver and kidneys but this does not mean that the organs are not affected. The liver will try very hard to break down the foreign substance or toxin and in doing so damages its performance. The enzymes levels rise dramatically as it attempts unsuccessfully to destroy fluralaner. It would seem, as resilient as a liver can be, there are examples of the liver failing. Similarly with the kidneys, They do not metabolise fluralaner but this does not mean the kidneys do not try to rid the body of the nasty toxin which kills insects. As a result the kidneys are in some cases severely damaged and can fail. Some of the other symptoms reported could be because the drug is circulating in the body round and round trying to find a way out. Pancreatic metabolism could be affected as well. It is reported that the drug is only excreted in the stools. In order to get there, once absorbed into the blood stream, it can only go via the liver and the biliary system, so it’s not surprising it takes a long time to be eliminated.”

    Also in this article it says the main route of elimination is likely to be hepatic.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4886404/

    “For fluralaner, the main route of elimination is likely hepatic because the high plasma protein binding [4] indicates minimal elimination via renal filtration. Plasma clearance can therefore be assumed to be equivalent to hepatic clearance. The clearance of fluralaner is low with only 0.14 L/kg/day in dogs [4] and 0.23 L/kg/day in cats. Considering a physiological hepatic blood flow of approximately 44.5 L/kg/day in the dog or 38.6 L/kg/day in the cat [15] and assuming hepatic clearance of fluralaner of 0.14 L/kg/day and 0.23 L/kg/day, respectively, the hepatic extraction ratio for fluralaner is estimated to be low (0.3 % in dogs [4] and 0.2 % in cats). The low clearance may be due to the high protein binding of fluralaner, which limits the unbound fraction of fluralaner in the vascular system that can be presented to clearing organs and/or due to a low intrinsic hepatic capacity to metabolize fluralaner [16–18].”

    #99391 Report Abuse
    Jane L
    Member

    Be very careful as they state the ingredient can cause seven in animals with no history or seizures. This is on the new topical and not added to oral still in spite of hundreds of seizures reported. In Australia a veterinary nurse said they are told it must not be sold to dogs with seizure history. I have seen many videos of seizures though, some starting within minutes of them taking it and not always after the first dose. Several have ended up having to be euthanised. Some are offered settlements on signing waivers.

    IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION (CATS):
The most common adverse reactions recorded in clinical trials were vomiting, itching, diarrhea, hair loss, decreased appetite, lethargy, and scabs/ulcerated lesions. Bravecto has not been shown to be effective for 12-weeks’ duration in kittens less than 6 months of age. Bravecto is not effective against American dog ticks beyond 8 weeks of dosing. For topical use only. Avoid oral ingestion. The safety of Bravecto has not been established in breeding, pregnant and lactating cats.
    Use with caution in cats with a history of neurologic abnormalities. Neurologic abnormalities have been reported in cats receiving Bravecto, even in cats without a history of neurologic abnormalities.

    IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION (DOGS):
The most common adverse reactions recorded in clinical trials were vomiting, hair loss, diarrhea, lethargy, decreased appetite, and moist dermatitis/rash. Bravecto has not been shown to be effective for 12-weeks’ duration in puppies less than 6 months of age. Bravecto is not effective against lone star ticks beyond 8 weeks of dosing. For topical use only. Avoid oral ingestion.
    Use with caution in dogs with a history of seizures. Seizures have been reported in dogs receiving fluralaner, even in dogs without a history of seizures.

    #99392 Report Abuse
    Jane L
    Member

    If that was true would the ADE reports on the liver failure deaths be assessed as probable and possible cause and would their letters to owner of one dead dog describe it as an idiosyncratic responce to the ingredient? The necropsy finding even pointed to two previous assaults on the liver could tie in with the dogs first two doses where she had just been sick for a day or two. It was dose three that caused almost immediate serious reaction and death only days later which has happened many times.

    #99393 Report Abuse
    pitlove
    Member

    Hi Jane-

    Not sure if any of your comments were directed at me, but my seizure predisposed boy is doing great with Bravecto. None at all for the whole year and a half he’s been on it. I’ll continue to use it, but thanks for your concern.

    #99394 Report Abuse
    anonymous
    Member

    I think it is important to add, that if you give any prescription medication other than exactly how it was ordered by the prescribing dr.
    Don’t be surprised if it is not effective.

    #99395 Report Abuse
    Becca
    Member

    it must get broken down by the liver and kidneys so it circulates to the skin with enough poison to kill fleas and ticks

    #99396 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Hi Susan,

    Thank you for the excellent information! Yes, I am concerned about all these aspects..my plan is to use sparingly. Just one dose from now through Sept. then switch back to Sentinal. My dog splits her time between FL and VT…Fleas are a non issue in VT but ticks are a huge issue.

    We are in FL at the moment and fleas are horrible this year because we didn’t have a heavy frost this winter ( normally my part of FL..St Augustine..gets 1 or two hard freezes a winter).

    I plan on keeping a close eye on Coco.

    As to your observations about Bravecto remaining in the body for too long…I did read a medical study which stated that trace amounts were found in the blood at 111 days but that the effective dosage ended roughly at the 90 day mark…this is an overlap of 21 days and like you I am concerned about build up if given on a regular basis.

    With that said …the flip side is that if you think about it – even using a monthly medicine has the effect of keeping the dog under load too. Every month you administer a monthly dose the dog always has the drug in its system…right?

    I don’t really see a difference…giving 3 pills of Sentinal over 3 months is the exact same as giving one pill of Bravecto over 3 months.

    Therefore my main concern is the overlap and build up relating to proper dosage schedules as discussed above vs. concern over having the drug in the dog’s body.

    I guess the real question is …” is it safe or not” If the drug is really safe ok…if the drug causes cancer or other illness then I wouldn’t use it period.

    I also agree with you that with any new drug one has to worry about long term side effects which don’t show up in the studies…ones that only start cropping up after 5 or 10 years.

    We just don’t know yet with Brvecto…BUT in theory I do like the fact that it doesn’t load the liover or kidneys…that part is very good. In addition the studies to date indicate far fewer adverse reactions than other standard and older medicines…that part is good too.

    Then we have the fact that boy…it is working great on Coco so far regarding fleas…has the potential to kill ticks within 2-4 hours after being bitten ( I think lyme disease requires the tick be attached for 24 or more hours)..so that is also a plus.

    My pan…keep a wary eye…use a sparingly as possible…AND most importantly take Coco off the med for long breaks when neither fleas or ticks are an issue…maybe even just giving her one dose a year.

    In a perfect world without fleas or ticks I wouldn’t giver her any medicine. I HATE ..ABSOLUTELY HATE that I have to medicate my gal…but since I do I am going to keep researching which medicine is the safest then give as little as possible.

    Thaks again!

    Cameron
    P.S. I wish our pets had the ability to help make a choice…by saying hey you dope…don’t give me that junk…it makes me feel woozy…or bad. That is the single hardest part about having pets…we have to observe and use our knowledge to guess what is best and how our babies feel. To everyone reading…please – get to know your pets!!!

    #99397 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Jane,

    Kuddos to you…I lie how you spend the time to research scholarly research vs making decisions based on conjecture or Facebook posts.

    I am glad I joined this site…it is good to discuss various issues and concerns with others who have researched the question!

    Cameron

    #99398 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Thanks for your observations…it is good to get feed back from others who use Bravecto. My plan is to administer it as sparingly as possible giving long breaks inbetween. I am also going to keep a close eye on my gal.

    Jane has made a few logical observations…her comments about the potential for the liver to try to metabolize the drug only to fail in being able to do so does raise concerns for me.

    Since I have a pretty good track record of Coco’s liver enzemes rating before administerig this drug I plan on having her tested again in a month to see if her liver enzemes did indeed rise as Jane fears is a potential…I want to see exactly what is going on with my dog before deeming this 100% safe.

    For now I am thinking that it is safe…lets see what I think after tests down the road. If it is causing elevated liver enzemes I’ll never give Coco another dose and I highly doubt that I will have damaged her through administering a single dose ( this might not be true with other dogs/breeds)

    When thinking about this I sugest that we realize the effects of medicines varies greatly in humans. Some of us can guzzle wine with no ill effect…others take one sip and get headaches or suffer ill effects from alcohol. Same with aspirin… I might take it and be fine…you might take it and have severe stomach problems.

    The trick in life is finding what works best for us individually…what foods to eat …what meds to take and what allergies we may have…I think the same holds true for dogs or any animal for that matter.

    As they say in the Navy…keep a wary “weather” eye on this!

    Cameron

    #99399 Report Abuse
    anonymous
    Member

    You are not a dr. You are not a scientist. Sorry, but it is true, if you are, I apologize, lol.
    Even then, health care professionals are advised not to treat their own (pets, family, friends) as they can not be objective.
    The best person to advise you regarding heartworm/flea/tick preventives is a veterinarian that you have a good relationship with and that has examined your dog, knows the area you live in and the level of risk involved.
    Blanket statements do not work. You can look up medical articles all day long……the information is not specific to your dog.
    Find a vet that you trust and listen to him. Good luck

    Ps: Once the lab values are off, it is often too late, the damage is done.

    #99400 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Hi Jane,

    I do see your logic regarding the effects on the liver…I am posting an portion of a research study…please note the extremely high dosages given to the rats…400mg per Kg body weight a DAY…a DAY. Wow…my gal got about 11.4 mg per pound for 3 months ( (roughly 23.6 mg per kg per 90 days!!!)

    Jane…anything to excess is dangerous. Drinking to much water at once can literally kill you…does than mean water is toxic. Well yes…sure it is toxic if you are stupid enough to drink 3 or 5 gallons at once.

    How about baby aspirin..yep..thats toxic to in some people. If I listed all the side effects of just plain old aspirin and didn’t tell you the drug name there is no way you would ever pop another aspirin again. Yet rarely do any of us ever actually realize any negative effect from aspirin and there are many studies that support aspirin has numerous beneficial effects at low dosage…from preventing heart disease to preventing some cancers.

    Some people don’t seem to have comon sense…they read a “study” and don’t really have the expertise to understand the study then they get freaked out.

    Please…do go read all the horrible…super scary possible side effects of aspirin…but you know what…I’m not concerend at all and I think it makes perfect sense to take a daily low dose of aspirin…the logical benefits are far better than the risks.

    But yes…see my other posts…keep an eye on this…know your dog…get proper blood tests done and see how your pup is tolerating this new drug.

    Please see below post from PARASITIPEDIA.net:

    LD50 acute, rats, p.o. >2000 mg/kg
    LD50 acute, rats, dermal >2000 mg/kg.
    In rats the main target organ in the repeated dose toxicity studies was the liver. Increased organ weight, hepatocellular fatty change and effects in related blood parameters were observed mainly in the highest dose groups, thus at large overdoses relative to recommended/proposed use in the dogs. At the dose of 400 mg/kg bw/day effects on thymus and adrenal weight and microscopic changes in lung and thymus were observed. Comparable effects were reported after dermal administration at very high doses.
    In Beagle puppies treated at 1x, 3x and 5x the maximum recommended dose (= 25 to ~60 mg/kg bw) three times with a 56 day interval, fluralaner was well tolerated. There was no evidence of product-related effects in food consumption, body weight, clinical parameters or physical examination variables, or clinical pathology findings.
    In a pivotal reproductive study Beagle dogs were treated up to 3X the recommended dose 3 times at 8 weeks intervals starting 12 weeks (males) and 4 weeks (females) before expected mating. Treatment continued until the females had whelped (males) or the puppies were weaned (females). No adverse reactions were observed in adult dogs and no detrimental effect on reproductive functions, number of puppies and puppy survival was detected.
    Safety data collected during field studies with the tablets for dogs in Europe and the USA showed that the product was in general well tolerated. In the European field study mild and transient diarrhea, vomiting, lack of appetite and drooling were recorded in 1.6% of dogs in the first days after treatment.

    #99401 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Not sure you are directing this to me…well yes..actually I do have a doctorate but no offense taken.

    And yes…my vet whom I trust HIGHLY reccomends Bravecto…nontheless I am doing my research as well just to make sure.

    And I add that there are some out there who love a good scandel..even when I say my vet reccomended the drug they scream…aah the vets are making money off this…they are part of the quote “system” as if there is this huge shady group of people lying about research and killing dogs just so they can make a buck.

    Really, in today’s world you can’t win…you say you agree with a research study and the opinion of a trained vet and they jump on you…you say you don’t trust a study and the otherside jumps on you.

    What I do is listen to experts..look at all sides and decide the issue solely on science. To date I have not read a single research article which supports all the dire side effects that some here are claiming.

    Now will admit a few here do make a logical case for longer term and presently unknown side effects. Such as yes…how does the liver react over 10 years to this drug.

    Medical doctors today now realize that minor but constant inflammation in the human body can cause cancer…20 years ago they would have laughed at the notion that some minor little thing would kill you 15 years later.

    For now I feel safe in the short term usage of Bravecto…BUT I am not certain I will want to use this for the next 5-10 years? I’ll get back to you on that question!

    #99435 Report Abuse
    Jane L
    Member

    US Adopted Name “fluralaner” is: 4-[5-(3,5-Dichlorophenyl)-5-trifluoromethyl-4,5-dihydroisoxazol-3-yl]-2-m- ethyl-N-[(2,2,2-trifluoro-ethylcarbamoyl)-methyl]-benzamide (CAS RN [864731-61-3]).

    The liver produces and secretes bile into the intestine where the bile assists with the absorption and digestion of dietary fat. The liver aids purification of the blood, by altering potentially harmful chemicals into harmless ones, and then: either secretes them with the bile for elimination in the stool, or back into the blood, where they then are removed by the kidneys and eliminated in the urine. The typical non-specific symptoms of degenerative liver disease (loss of appetite, nausea/vomiting, lethargy, etc.) are common first “symptoms” of “adverse reaction” to Bravecto®.

    The dog’s pancreas (endocrine and digestive system) produces insulin hormones (regulates the flow of glucose/sugar) and enzymes that break down fat and proteins to aid in the digestion of foods. When overburdened, the pancreas becomes inflamed, and the flow of enzymes into the digestive tract is disrupted; the enzymes may be forced out of the pancreas and into the abdominal area. These digestive enzymes will begin to break down fat and proteins in other organs… (the body begins to digest itself). Because of their proximity, the kidneys and liver are prime targets of this progression.

    Enterohepatic Circulation that leads to hepatic toxicity/

    And as a side note would it be under investigation by the EMA as well as Sweden, Germany, Netherlands if there were not serious concerns?

    #99436 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Jane,
    Thats enough now…you are straying deep into the weeds and you lost me when you referenced investigations by Sweden (and others) but failed to post a link.

    #99437 Report Abuse
    aimee
    Member

    Hi Cameron,

    I just wanted to say I enjoyed your posts and got a chuckle from your “straying deep into the weeds” comment.

    #99438 Report Abuse
    Jane L
    Member

    How many would you like. Here is the EMA announcement of targeted PSUR’s. Some decision in June is mentioned.

    Official German statement and one from Sweden. There are also publications news reports from Netherlands, Beguim. Poland and more. You can find them all online including the 30 minute documentary from Holland.

    http://www.atl.nu/lantbruk/fastingmedel-granskas-efter-larm/

    http://www.bvl.bund.de/DE/05_Tierarzneimittel/05_Fachmeldungen/2017/2017_01_24_Fa_Bravecto.html

    The MAH was asked to provide a targeted PSUR that should include an extensive analysis and review of all serious reaction reports with neurological disorders, skin and appendages disorders, hypersensitivity/immune mediated reactions and hepatopathy, also with death and death by euthanasia. This targeted PSUR will be assessed by the CVMP and depending on the outcome additional measures will be taken.
    In addition, during the last period of surveillance “lethargy” has been identified and the MAH was requested to update the SPC to include this term in the SPC.

    http://www.ema.europa.eu/…/Newslett…/2017/02/WC500222245.pdf

    Articles from Sweden, Poland, Russia, here is one if you want to translate.

    http://www.ed.nl/binnenland/onderzoek-naar-dodelijk-middel-tegen-vlooien-bij-honden~a7592e05/

    #99439 Report Abuse
    Jane L
    Member

    Yes “straying in deep weeds” might be risky. Pick up a tick and you might need to trial the Bravecto instead giving it to your poor dog 🙄

    #99440 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Thanks Jane,

    Supports what I have been saying…this is a direct copy and paste from the LINK you sent to me…notice the “so far we have not seen any connection?:

    In Sweden Bravecto launched in May 2014. Since then, the MPA has received a total of 152 adverse event reports related to the agent.

    – I know it is a big concern and that many have their eyes on Bravecto. We look at each report and an assessment of whether it is probable, possible or unlikely that there is a connection between what happened and medicine. So far we have not seen any connection to Sweden, says Susanne Stenlund, veterinarian at the MPA.

    #99447 Report Abuse
    Jane L
    Member

    Yes that’s Sweden. Not been there that long. If really interested just get a report which I have. Many cases are listed as probable cause or known reaction. Many cases are vets own dogs. Some happened in vets offices. One 5 month old puppy dead in 30 minutes.

    On my latest report dated 7/03/2017 from the EMA (European Medicines Agency) there are now 3988 reports / 972 deaths.

    This is up from January 9th when there was 3,668 reported serious adverse events including 874 deaths. So an increase of 320 reports / 98 deaths in the two month period.
    1647 reports /486 deaths are in the USA.

    If you are happy to risk it that’s you choice. I hope for you dogs sake you don’t regret as so many do.

    I hope the June announcement is that it is withdrawn. At least the dog topical has not arrived still so maybe the fact that the human adverse reactions jumped from 33 to 74 in just a few weeks on the arrival of the cat spot on and they were unable to prevent cross contamination even in the laboratories maybe that is shelved.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Jane L.
    #99449 Report Abuse
    Doodledude
    Member

    Hi Jane! Thank you for your input . If you don’t mind, i’d like to go along with you but on a different tangent…So here’s my two cents…I’m not much of a gambler and much less so when it comes to the well being and health of my boys. Unless you are an expert in the field of Pharmaceuticals, it all boils down to trust. “Merck” the manufacturer of “Bravetco” has a documented and factual history of having disregard for human life when it comes to profit. I bring up the topic of “Vioxx” one of Merck’s “wonder” drugs for which they knowingly ignored trail data for profit! Now , I may not have a doctorate, but can say with a bit of common sense, that if a pharmaceutical co. tries to get away with such on people, it isn’t far fetched to assume that they wouldn’t do the same for animals. I’m not saying that they have of course, but thru a bit of due diligence, research this company and Vioxx and then tell me that you trust giving one of they’re products to your loved dog. there are plenty of long standing and proven alternatives that work just as well and have a lot less possible side effects and controversy around them and they’re manufacturers. I am a firm believer that NOT ALL, but a lot of respected Veterinarians including my own, know about as much about “Bravetco” as their drug sales reps. do. Anyone with that expertise and knowledge on any given drug would more than likely not be on the road as a sales person. I am NOT in anyway knocking valuable sales people …Just my two cents and i know this is not about the drug specifically but about trust in a lucrative manufacturing sector. Please do google for yourself Merck/Vioxx. This should get you started…http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/05/14/mercks-adhd-drugs-unsafe.aspx

    #99450 Report Abuse
    Jane L
    Member

    Oh I can assure you I am fully aware of the Vioxx case and full rap sheet. Yes sadly it took over 60k human deaths in the 4 years they dragged their feet before Vioxx was withdrawn.

    Do you know this part?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-created-hit-list-to-destroy-neutralize-or-discredit-dissenting-doctors/

    I actually know many vets. Some warn strongly against its use. Some have seen what it has done to clients dogs. It’s still a mystery what exactly is going on. Many deaths are days after dose three. Some cases the dogs react in minutes. Some still appear to be ok after over two years.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Jane L.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Jane L.
    #99456 Report Abuse
    Cameron M
    Member

    Stop.

    Your arguemens make no scientific. Instead you use conjecture and emotion….ano NO you don’t have to be an expert as t=you claim. All you have to do is read the reports and think. Prettty simple stuff.

    This drug apppears to be safe…over 35M doses administered and something like a 1%…actually I think it far less than 1% reported problems…and many of them were relatively minor.

    You guys are just starting a baseless fearmongering which isn’t based on real facts or science.

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