[Spy Car]

@JS, I wondered if the Calcium to Phosphorus mineral balance might be different for a cat food vs a dog food, but it isn’t. There are some dog foods, like Victors Ultra Pro, that have higher protein and fat percentages (42/22) which is a decided positive, despite the misinformation you are getting from some sources.

I feed my dog a PMR style raw diet. No Carbs. Best thing ever. Better teeth, better coat, better energy (while also calm), great muscle mass with no body fat.

Cats fed PMR eat exactly the same way dogs do, with the exception being that cats need an adequate source of dietary taurine (as they can’t synthesize their own). I feed regular amounts of taurine-rich beef heart in any case to my dog.

I can’t say (having never investigated the question) whether there are any nutrients in cat food that are not balanced for dogs. I’d want to do due diligence on that question.

But the idea that cat food is too high in protein and fat is a total falsehood. The fewer carbs in the diet the better. Carbs add no essential nutrients to a canine diet. None. They also don’t belong in a feline diet.

Bill

[Susan]

Joanne
I just read this on Rodney Habib f/b page…
Super Scary!
Study reveals 93% of brands tested showed limited ingredient diets (for pets with problems) were labeled wrong!
Of the 40 analyzed products (9 dry NPDs, 22 wet NPDs, 6 dry HPDs and 3 wet HPDs), ten presented a content that correctly matched the label, while five did not contain the declared animal species, twenty-three revealed the presence of undeclared animal species, and two had a vague label that did not allow the evaluation of its accuracy. The most frequently contaminants identified in both dry and wet pet foods were pork, chicken and turkey. The presence of undeclared animal species was higher in dry than wet pet foods; furthermore, a lower number of contaminating animal species was identified in HPDs than NPDs (4 vs 10), and a lower number of contaminated HPDs (6 out of 9, 67%) than contaminated NPDs was detected (24 out of 31, 77%). Thirteen out of 14 brands tested presented at least one mislabeled product.

Conclusions:

Mislabeling seems to be a widespread issue in pet foods used as elimination diets. Contamination can occur in all types of products used for the purpose, although dry NPDs are the main issue. Due to the high risk of contamination, particular attention should be given to both the selection of raw material suppliers and the production process.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6020431/

[Chloe B]

Hi, I have a very happy 10 year old corgi who has been diagnosed with colitis — she has gone through a lot of tests to rule out other things, but at this point we’re not sure what is causing it –she’s a rescue and has had it since she was rescued. We’ve had her 3 months. I’m wondering whether anyone else has their dog on a food that they’ve had good luck with? I don’t want to feed her raw diet. I’d love to hear about your experience and what has worked, thank you.

[Susan]

Hi Nate,

Yes Annamaet Lean kibble is VERY high in legumes, high carb diet..

People recommend to feed a low-protein diet for a dog with pancreatitis. However this is not correct. By decreasing protein in diet then the carbohydrate content increases which is the greatest aggravating factor of pancreatitis in dogs in the first place, or increase the fat, which is no good considering the illness..
I was feeding Patch a low protein around 25%, low fat diet then realised the carbs were so high & my dog always had his stomach/pancreas pain, whinging crying, wanting me to rub his pancreas area, at least once a week but since he’s been eating “Wellness Core” Large Breed formula, that is high protein around 34%, low/med fat-13% Carbs-30% he’s been doing really well & he has not had 1 whinging episode in 7 months where he wants me to rub his pancreas, then he has to be put on Metronidazole when Pancreas/stomach pain doesn’t go away after 2 days….He can’t take Predisone/steriods..

Here’s
**Wellness Core Raw Rev Turkey Dehydrated its low in fat 10%
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-rawrev-healthy-weight-100-raw-turkey

** Wellness Core 100% Turkey- 10% fat
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-100-freeze-dried-turkey
Here’s the Whole Wellness Core range… click on the Chicken & Turkey formula’s they’re lowest in fat..
You could fed 1 of their meal the Hills I/d formula & for dinner they have a meal thats higher protein, lower fat & lower carbs, take baby steps & see how your dogs do eating the Higher protein meal, meat protein is easier to digest then a bowl of carbs…

The Honest Kitchen has a few new formula’s
HOPE –
% Protein-25.0
% Fat-7.2
% Fiber-6.0
% Moisture-8.0
*Per dry cup.
THK- Kindley – Grain Free Fat is 10% Fiber is 8.5%
THK- Preference – Grain Free fat-10.5% Fiber -8%
THK- Verve – Organic Beef- Fat-8.5% Fiber-5.8%
THK- Zeal – Grain Free- Fat-8.5 fiber 5.8%
the fiber % is higher in some of the Honest Kitchen formula’s over 6%….

Here’s The Honest Kitchen range- https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/meals

Are you on Face Book here’s the “Canine Pancreatitis Support group” link
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
Join group then post a post asking what are people feeding their dogs, I know there’s a few people who feed low fat, premade raw diets, so they may know of a freeze dried/Dehydrated brands you can feed that are low in fat.
also look in the “files”
there’s “A recipe for home-cooked food”
there’s “Pancreas Low Fat dog foods.pdf”

[Laura R]

@joanne l
When I first got him in April 2017 at 9 weeks, he was on Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy Lamb & Rice formula. After age 6? months Aug 2017?), I switched him to Canidae ALS. Then we started having this peeing problem in April/May 2018. So that’s when I tried the Health Extension GF Venison diet, after the vet said “change the food.” But he wasn’t on Health Extension very long (less than a month / half a bag) because we saw no improvement and the vet qualified his “change the food” statement to specify Iams or Science Diet. So he has been on Science Diet Small Breed Healthy Mobility since early July 2018. And when I looked at those ingredients plus being frustrated with lack of improvement over many months, I started doing my raw diet research and I added raw food in mid-July.

[LIZ R]

HI LUCY, I HAVE TO USE CAP DUE TO MY EYESIGHT! MY ZOEY HAD SURGERY YESTERDAY, SHE IS A 10 YEAR OLD CHIHUAHUA. WE HAD ULTRA SOUND DONE LAST WEEK NEVER SHOWED THE TUMOR TO BE LARGE. WELL WHEN VET WENT INTO THE BLADDER THE TUMOR WAS SO LARGE HE COULD NOT REMOVE IT ALL! SENT TUMOR OUT TO LAB, WILL NOT KNOW ABOUT RESULTS UNTIL NEXT WEEK. NOT SURE WHY THIS GOT SO OUT OF CONTROL, NOT SURE IF VET KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING! THIS IS MY BABY, I HAVE HAD HER SINCE SHE WAS 3 WEEKS OLD! NOT SURE WHAT TO DO! I CANT STOP CRYING! IM RESEARCHING RAW DIETS! NOT TOO MANY CHOICES OF VETS WHERE I LIVE, BUT I WILL GO ANYWHERE I NEED TO, TO HELP MY SWEET FUR BABY GIRL!!!

[I love Dogs 2]

@ Anon101 you write

“For instance, pet owners often send messages asking AAHA to recommend a shampoo for a “stinky dog.” Often, the dog’s problem is not a “stinky” body”

What a load of BULL, when my dog smells its not her ears or teeth as she eats a raw diet & she has BEAUTIFUL teeth, she smells from her yeasty smelly skin caused by allergies & she needs a medicated shampoo to have a bath..

Sometimes a dog health problem has a simple fix cost $10-$40 to fix & you DO NOT need to see a vet & waste their time..

Why are you here on DFA harassing posters & answering their post? if you think people should be seeing a vet & not come onto sites like DFA???

[Laura R]

I have an 18 month old Australian Shepherd male who is reluctant to pee. Someone is home with him all day, so he goes out often enough. The vet has not prescribed any antibiotics as he sees no evidence of infection. He is convinced it is the food and recommended regular Science Diet or Iams food (not an rx formula). When I asked why he thought it was the food, he just seemed to think it was a function of his metabolism.

The best I can figure out he recommended these foods because they are low in phosphorus. My dog had previously been on Canidae All Life Stage and when that didn’t work I tried Health Extension GF venison, which still didn’t work. Most dog foods do not list their phosphorous content or do so in a vague “min” quantity when
I need a max quantity… I did find one website which listed low phosphorus commercial foods, but it was very out of date and inaccurate.

So after going through chronic kidney failure and a raw/homemade diet with a previous dog, I decided to try a balanced raw diet (see Dr. Karen Becker’s diets on YouTube). But for a 40# dog it is not cheap or easy and I have only been doing it as half his diet along with the Science Diet (because I think this is crappy food). I also added Nutramax Crananidin, additional ascorbic acid, and calcium in order to boost the calcium:phosphorus ratio closer to what other sources recommend to be 2:1. Since this dog does not drink water at all (despite having bought a purifier and all), I also put a cup of water/broth on his food both am and pm.

I just feel like I am at my wits end. In the afternoons/evenings, his urine pH runs around 7.5. This morning, I tested it and it was a lovely 5.5! Additionally, we have taken samples to the vet for analysis and we get different results on different days/times with crystals and no crystals present.

All this leaves me feeling like I don’t understand what is working and why, and a dog that is miserable! We are going to add a little broth to his water today to see if that will get him to drink during the day, but if anyone else has suggestions or insight, I would be greatly appreciative.

[Patmae B]

Also make sure you are eliminating wheat gluten from the diet. Stop feeding kibble and make food if you can. Or feed a high quality canned read ingredients no by products or gluten. Start out with canned toss in some cooked meat and cooked vegetables slowly. Incorporate raw goats milk once daily your dog will love it ! The gut will improve over a couple weeks. In a month you should see a huge improvement.

[Susan]

Hi Sydney,
you need to see a Vet Specialist, that specializes in IBD, you would have just been going around in circles seeing different vets, thats what happened with Patch & me until the 4th vet specialized in Intestinal problems, IBD, IBS & Skin Allergies etc, then finally I was told to do a cooked elimination diet & to find a nutritionist to help with this & was given 2 names of 2 good Nutritionist but they were both in different states, so we did everything via phone & email, to work out what foods Patch was sensitive too & did a raw elimination diet to work out what was causing his paws to go red & what foods causing him to have IBD flare & react, you wouldnt believe it, his environment allergies play a very big part aswell not just the food, this is why we go around & around in circles, at the end of last year & beginning of this year he had a really bad IBD flare (Stomach), his immune system was working over time vet said cause of his environment allergies, the immune system — attacks the body’s own healthy tissue, this is called an immune response, resulting in autoimmune disease, IBD… he had no diarrhea or sloppy poos this time, it attacked his stomach & Esophagus, I had already worked out what he could & couldnt eat thru elimination diet we did 2, elimination diets, first cooked diet then the following year a raw elimination diet…as he reacted to vet diets like I posted we think from the binders in the vet diets..
If you have found something that agrees with your girl still try & find another brand of dry kibble just is case she starts to react to an ingredient as Patch has done in the past….at the moment I only have 2 dry foods Patch does OK on & 1-2 wet can foods vet diets that are pork he does really well on pork dry & wet dog foods but not cooked pork??..
it all does your head it & I think it was you who posted all you seem to do is research dog foods..

[Susan]

Hi Sydney,
have you ever done a food elimination diet with either raw or cooked ingredients?? 1 meat & 1 carb??
this is the only true way to know 100% what foods your dog is sensitive too..

In the beginning one of Patches vets put him on Royal Canine Hyproallergenic vet diet but Patch was still getting his red paws 20mins after he ate also the fat was way too high at 19% also his afternoon poos was very sloppy, So we tried the Hills Z/d Ultra & the same red paws after he ate the Z/d dry kibble, I think it was the Corn Starch in the Hills Z/d formula.. as the meat proteins are broken down so the body doesnt recognize the meat protein in these Hypoallergenic vet diets, so it has to be the binders they are using to bind the hypoallergenic vet diets the dog s react too….
.. In the end I did a raw elimination diet & finally worked out what ingredients he reacts too..

I read one of your post in someone elses post & you wrote your dog is better now on a vegan dog food, when the cooler weather starts to come around when environment allergens arent as high I would now add 1 meat that isn’t too expensive & you can buy like pork & see does your dog start to react?? do an meat elimination diet & I bet you you will find a meat that agree with your dog..

Here’s Farmina dog foods there’s a few formula’s to look thru..
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop-d-Dog-food.html

[anonymous]

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/08/grain-free-diets-and-heart-disease-in-dogs/ excerpt below, click on link for full article and comments:

Dr. Jennifer Larsen, a nutritionist at UC Davis, has written an excellent summary of the nuances of this issue, and she has agreed to let me share some of it here:
Taurine is not required to be present in dog foods. Taurine is an amino acid that is not nutritionally essential for dogs; however, there are dietary factors (such as protein source, fiber type and concentration, and cooking or processing methods) and individual dog characteristics (such as breed and calorie needs) that impact how efficiently taurine may be made and used by the body. The sulfur amino acid content and bioavailability in food is important though. The problem with dietary deficiency-related cardiac disease is multifactorial and is not just seen in goldens.
1- in many grain free diets, legumes are used to provide the carb (starch) but also protein and fiber – you cannot tell which ingredients are providing various proportions of nutrients from an ingredient list
2- legume protein is low in sulfur amino acids (methionine and cystine- the precursors for taurine synthesis)
3- some fiber types/concentrations increase fecal taurine content and promotes bacterial degradation of taurine (dogs and cats must use taurine to conjugate bile acids) so taurine recycling is not as efficient and more is lost
4- dogs need an adequate supply of precursors and to be able to make taurine fast enough to replace obligatory as well as excessive losses. When Newfoundlands and beagles were compared (during the Investigation into the lamb and rice issue with DCM in the 90s), it was found that Newfoundlands made taurine more slowly, so there are differences among breeds and probably individuals
5- dogs with lower than predicted calorie needs (“easy keepers”) also might not eat enough food and therefore enough protein to supply adequate precursors
6- some grain free diets (and other types of diets), are not high in protein (and therefore sulfur amino acids) since they use more expensive exotic or uncommon sources.
Any of these or a combination may impact taurine status in the dog.
There have been recent cases seen in our hospital and elsewhere of dilated cardiomyopathy secondary to taurine deficiency in dogs that have been associated with commercial diets containing certain ingredients (such as legumes – beans, lentils, and peas – and root vegetables – white and sweet potatoes). Data collection and interpretation is ongoing for these recent cases.
In the past we have also seen cases of dilated cardiomyopathy and taurine deficiency in dogs eating home-prepared diets (with either cooked and raw ingredients and those with and without meat), and other commercial diets with various ingredients and nutritional profiles. Some of those cases and investigations have been published (others can be found on PubMed):

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by anonymous.

[CatahoulaLove]

“The vet is putting you on the wrong track IMO.

You are using one of the best kibbles available (despite my strong preference for PMR raw, as a disclaimer).

Other formulas are going to increase calories from carbohydrates which is a huge negative and will directly de-condition your dog as a result of the dietary change.

The “only working dogs require protein” argument is a fallacy.”

That PMR raw site is amazing. I’m pretty sure my family would vomit during every feeding. Seriously though, going from 17% carbs to more than double, if not more, is not the direction I want to go with Harper. I wouldn’t mind eliminating the peas altogether, but they are a little further down the ingredient list for Victor, and I’ll likely have to compromise protein or fat content. My vet did recommend Natural Balance L.I.D, while not truly horrible, is a step back. Glad she didn’t recommend Hill’s…because I like the practice and would hate to leave it. Thanks Bill, I appreciate your insight.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by CatahoulaLove.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by CatahoulaLove. Reason: Using that English degree

[Spy Car]

The vet is putting you on the wrong track IMO.

You are using one of the best kibbles available (despite my strong preference for PMR raw, as a disclaimer).

Other formulas are going to increase calories from carbohydrates which is a huge negative and will directly de-condition your dog as a result of the dietary change.

The “only working dogs require protein” argument is a fallacy.

Bill

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
Im not against grain pet foods, I believe you should rotate with 1 good grain free dry kibble then rotate with a grain kibble or I like the dry kibbles that will have a few good grains instead of Legumes & have sweet potatoes, veggies & fruits a variety….

Whenever Patch eats a grain kibble that has Barley, Oats & Brown Rice he does big smelly sloppy yellow poos, but when he eats a grain kibble that has White Rice & Sorghum he does nice firm poo’s so he must be sensitive to Barley, Oats & the Brown rice is probably too high in fiber put them all together & we have bad poo’s, so it may not be 1 ingredient it might be when they are all together?…. alot of these grain formula’s have replaced their corn with peas & barley. I prefered corn instead of the peas & barley, corn firms up poos, most intestinal health vet diets use corn in their vet diets for this reason..

Chicken: I don’t think your dog is sensitive to chicken, it could have another ingredient or it may have been the Fish or the Duck but read what were the common ingredients besides meat proteins?
My Patch does excellent on Chicken with his IBD, BUT when he eats cooked or raw chicken his paws go red within 20mins of eating the cooked or raw chicken when I did a elimination diet BUT when he eats a kibble that has chicken in it he doesnt get his red paws sometimes or not as bad?? so I’d say its cause the chicken in a kibble gets broken down while being cooked at such high temperatures & Patch isnt reactionthe the chicken as bad aswhen he eats fresh raw or cooked chicken?..
I asked a Hills Vet Nutritionist, why does Hill’s wet & dry formula’s all have chicken in them?, she said, it’s cause chicken is the easiest meat to digest, this is probably why Patch does well with his IBD…

Have a look at “Farmina” grain formula’s.. they look very good for a dry kibble..
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop-dog/dog-food/11-n&d-ancestral-grain-canine.html

Be careful the Purina Pro Plan Salmon & Rice formula was tested again & did really bad again, it keeps coming back high in Heavy Metals, By-Product Contamines – Poor & Ingredient Quality – Poor…
If your dog does well Purina, the last test were just done, the testing gets done every 3 months…But certain Brands formula’s are staying on the bad heavy metals & contaminates list & are not moving when they are re tested, so these pet food companies are still using the same bad suppliers.
These Purina Formula’s did really well got 5 stars
Purina Pro Plan Bright Mind Adult Turkey & Rice Formula Dry Dog Food
Purina One Smart Blend, Lamb & Rice, Healthy Weight, True Instinct Turkey and Venison, Chicken and Rice & Small Bites Beef & Rice Formula’s are cleaner kibbles also Purina Beyond Superfood Blend Salmon, Egg and Pumpkin Recipe Dry Dog Food, Purina Beyond Simply 9 White Meat Chicken and Whole Barley Recipe Dry Dog Food…

[Susan]

@ Joanne,

click on the link Crazy4cats has posted above, read thru & scroll down to-

“Dogs And Taurine”
Studies are showing that there are likely dietary factors associated with the taurine deficiency in dogs such as dogs that eat rice, lamb, high-fiber, and/or very low meat protein diets. This can point back to the preparation and/or processing methods used, or that many dog foods include meat byproducts, rice, legumes, and soy which are not sources of good meat proteins or any meat protein at all, which means they are not good sources of taurine.

“Why is Taurine Missing”?
In addition, meat byproducts, rice, and plant-based proteins are not good sources of taurine. If your pet food has high quantities of these types of items, it likely means your dog is not getting the taurine it needs to be healthy.
With so many foods going grain free, manufacturers are substituting the grain with things like lentils, soy protein, and chickpeas. These types of foods do not provide taurine to sustain good health.

“Taurine Naturally in Foods”
Muscle meats contain higher levels taurine; the more work the muscles do, the higher the taurine level. Dark meat of chicken and turkey are naturally high in taurine.
Shellfish, white fish, and cold water fish such as salmon or sardines are also very high in natural taurine.
Taurine is not found in fruits, vegetables, rice, corn, oatmeal, rye, wheat, or barley

* You have to remember a dog has a short digestive tract made to digest meat, not heap of grains & legumes…

Patches IBD Vet Specialist told me this.
A dog has a short digestive tract, made to digest meat & when a dog eats any off meat it’s quickly passed thru the stomach into small bowel then large bowel so no bacteria can start to breed……. On 1 of our visits to see Patches IBD vet, Patch had vomited a few times in 1 week, I was worried but Patches IBD vet told me,
When a dog vomits it’s not a bad thing Susan, it’s very common with wild dogs they regurgitate their food, it’s very easy for a dog to have a vomit, due to the short digestive tract, especially if he is feeling unwell in the stomach also when the dog eats something thats bad & doesnt agree with the dog then the dog can bring it back up himself…

Meat Protein is easier for a dog to digest then any grains….DFA post this in the Food Review section…
Raw meat is easier for a dog or cat to digest, then cooked meat, when you cook meat you kill the digestive enzymes, cooking kills lots of good things..

[Jen T]

Hi, our Westie has been battling TCC (bladder cancer) for almost a year now. Our holistic vet switched her diet to dehydrated raw (Stella & Chewy’s and Primal) which she was doing well on. Recently, she is not interested in any dehydrated food/treats but will eat homemade foods (http://westierescueoc.com/the_westie_diet). We’re not looking to feed her this for long but since she’s been diagnosed with TCC, she’s had issues with crystals and bladder stones as well. Up until last year, she has been the healthiest dog with no issues other than skin allergies.

Does anyone have suggestions on a wet/canned food that is low on carbs for a dog with cancer and who is prone to bladder stones? She doesn’t digest chicken or lamb very well, and has rather soft bowel movements when the protein is too high (from what we’ve seen). It’s been hard trying to get the right food for her due to her soft bowel movements, cancer, and bladder stones. Thank you so much!

[Spy Car]

Hi Aimee,

I think that it is you who had made the classic mistake. You take the absence of evidence as evidence. That is not a valid approach.

Unfortunately, veterinary studies are almost always funded by pet food companies and they have no interest in proving the superiority of a PMR diet in maintaining healthy teeth vs a commercial diet. So there are no studies.

Many will then attempt to argue that “there are no studies that show…” as if that proves anything (when all it shows are lack of studies).

Meanwhile, there are many thousands of well-networked PMR feeders who raise dogs, see with their own eyes all the advantages (which include, but are not limited to, cleaner teeth) and we take our dogs to veterinarians for examinations and get great reports on oral health.

In contrast, 70-80% of kibble fed dogs have periodontal disease by the time they are three. Three-years-old. And it only gets worse. Feeding kibble diet is a virtual guarantee of developing periodontal disease.

It is not the case with a PMR diet. We don’t see that in our community. A community made up of avid dog trainers and some of the most experienced handlers of elite canine athletes. People who know dogs.

It is not true that dogs with periodontal disease won’t show signs as all one need to do is look at the gums for signs of inflammation and health to have a pretty good clue.

The “studies” you referred to are not relevant.

As to tooth damage or tooth wear, it is certainly possible to cause wear or fractures/breakages by feeding hard weight-bearing bones from large animals. That’s why many PMR feeders (like myself) advocate for eliminating so-called “recreational” bones from the diet.

Soft-edible bones (like chicken bones) virtually eliminate both risks to teeth and impactions issues, but anti-raw activists like to focus on items I personally don’t feed as if that’s the only option.

Of course, the visible portion of the tooth is whiter in PMR fed dogs. It is the same at the gum line and below. My vet confirms this at examination time. No hint of the periodontal disease most kibble fed dogs have at his age.

I’m afraid that the improper use of non-germaine studies and the error of the absence of evidence as evidence has put you on the wrong side of gauging the reality of the dental health of kibble-fed dogs vs PMR fed dogs. You are simply dead wrong on the issue.

Feeding a PMR diet using soft-edible bones (while avoiding risky weight-bearing bones) maximizes canine dental health. The alternative virtually guarantees periodontal disease.

There are few areas in dog rearing, canine nutrition and health where the contrast between the dreadful consequences of kibble-feeding and a PMR diet is starker. Yet you attempt to accuse me of a non-scientific worldview? Please. Spare me.

You are on the wrong side of all the very clear evidence.

Bill

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Spy Car.

[Susan]

Hi Gabrielle,
You wrote, I have a German shepherd mix of some kind that was “rescued off the streets”. When you rescued her what condition did she come in & was she wormed then wormed again 2-3 weeks later?? she may of had the hook worm when you rescued her?

I rescued a English Staffordshire Bull Terrier in very poor condition, weeing blood then pooing blood, he had Stomach & bowel problems but I didnt know about his intestinal problems till he ate certain foods & was doing sloppy, jelly poos with blood streaked thru his poo & then he’d have like your girl had Diarrhea he couldn’t control from Food Sensitivities… Lentils & boiled Rice, boiled rice irritates his bowel, he does best eating Sweet potatoes & Potatoes as main carb in dry kibbles…also Boiled sweet Potato with his pork rissoles I make or I buy a dog food in pet fridge section that is Lamb, Coconut & veggies balls & it has sweet potato….he eats these foods for lunch..

I put my cat food up on a scratching post/tree now, the scratching post thing has ground level, a middle level & a top section where there’s a big shelf, I have put a big ceramic tile there & I feed Indy all her foods on her scratching post shelf this way Patch can not get tempted & eat any of her food & then have one of his IBD flares.

Has your vet put her on Metronidazole for 21-28 days? Metronidazole is excellent for inflammation of stomach & bowel & bad bacteria over growth, I think she needs more then the probiotic to help heal her intestinal tract. My vet writes Patch repeat scripts of Metronidazole to keep at home so when I see he’s becoming unwell again I start him on Metronidazole x 200mg tablet every 12 hours with a meal for 21 days…

I would change her diet & would start her on a dry food that has just 1 novel protein & 1 carb, has medium protein % around 28-34% & is medium in fat around 12 to 15% fat & low in carbs 32% less or start her on a Hypoallergenic vet diet & do a food elimination food diet to work out what foods she might be too?? the vet diet she is eating at the moment could be making her Intestinal tract more inflammed if she is sensitive too certain ingredient in the vet diet she is eating, ask your vet can put her on a 21 day course of Metronidazole & can you change her vet diet? not all vet diets suit all dogs health problems, my boy tried all the Hills & Royal Canine Intestinal vet diets, none of them helped him till we tried Eukanuba/Iams Intestinal Low Residue dry kibble, this helped his IBD, then after 9 months when his bowel had healed I started introducing a grain free dry kibble that had Lamb only protein & Sweet Potatoes, Potatoes, Egg & Peas & he did really well with his skin & intestinal tract…..
Are you feeding 3 smaller meals a day, divide how much she should eat a day & split into 3 meals, so stomach/bowel works less digesting smaller meals, I feed 4 smaller meals a day 7am- under 1 cup dry kibble, 12pm-at lunch time Patch gets a small wet meal about 1/2 a cup, 5pm – under 1 cup dry & 8pm-1/3 a cup dry…..

Patch is doing well eating “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula, it is low in Kcals-345per cup, this is what you need to look at, how high are the Kcals per cup & stay under 360 Kcals per cup, the higher the Kcals the more dense the dry kibble is, so more work on stomach & bowel to digest…also the lower the fat% & lower protein % is, the higher the carbs will be….
I asked Patches vet to do an Endoscope + Biopsies on Patch December 2013, you need the Biopsies so vet knows what is wrong & treat with medications if she still isnt better after 1 yr…. the first Endoscope & Biopsies Patch had 1 yr after I rescued him, Biopsies show he had moderate chronic lymphocytic gastritis with a lymphocytic nodule present in the deeper mucosa of one section, variable numbers of spiral bacteria present, (Helicobacter-Spiral bacteria) Some gastric pits are mildy dilated. He was always hungry & had dirrahea on & off..
Then Patch had another Endoscope & Biopsies done January 2018 this year when he went down hill real quickly after we moved, he stopped eating his favorite kibble & the whole time I’ve owned Patch he never refuses any food, only when he has his rumbling, grumbling loud bowel noises early hours of the morning, then he doesn’t want to eat, which isnt a bad thing, dogs are smart & they know when to rest their stomach & bowel… this time his poos were firm, then the next day sloppy, then diarrhea & he was eating the same dry food, he kept swolling & swolling wierd noises, he had bad acid reflux, crying with pain & wasn’t his happy go lucky self, he had a sore throat, I thought he had bowel or stomach cancer this time, biopsies showed he had mild lymphoplasmacytic and eosinophilic gastritis with spiral bacteria again…
but in the “Comment” section the Veterinary Pathologist wrote,
Sections of the small intestine could not be fully assessed because of inadequate sampling..

Patches vet said the flap between the stomach & Esophagus isnt closing properly so his stomach acids are washing back up into his throat & his wind pipe was badly inflammed & there’s nothing he can do to fix the flap, Patch was put on 21 day course of triple therapy meds… & I kept trying all different dry foods that wouldnt make him swollow as much, the Nutro grounded rice & lamb kibble work best but the kibbles that had grains were causing “big” sloppy poos or diarrhea, he needed to eat a grainfree diet without Lentils & Chickpeas which is very hard to find a grainfree dry kibble that are Legume free, finally in Australia we are getting new dry Kibbles that are Legume free which will be good for Patch but some are high in fat around 16-18% fat, this causes bad acid reflux.. 🙁

Once you find foods/ ingredients she can eat then she will get better, she needs ingredients that will not irritate her stomach & bowel more, sounds like her bowel is inflammed & she needs medication to help heal, a good diet that’s easy to digest so everything can heal…
Think back what was she eating & was doing really well on?? try that again or something similiar & feed 3 smaller meals a day, see does she settle down, also keep a diary just incase over the years she developes IBD & keeps having flares….
also becareful with weight loss/weight management dry kibbles as they are higher in fiber & carbs…around 12-14% fat isnt that high for a dog, when they eat raw diet its normally around 30-50% in fat… look at Freeze dried diets they’re heaps better then dry processed kibbles..

[anonymous]

Why does my dog need dental work if I only feed a raw diet?
“Raw food diets are often based on uncooked meats, bones and vegetables. Some people report that their dog’s teeth appear “cleaner” and have less tartar when fed a raw diet. This is probably because of the increased chewing action which does provide some benefit. However, the incidence of fractured teeth increases in dogs that are eating bones. Periodontal disease can also develop hidden underneath the gum line, even without tartar on the teeth, where it will not be seen until your pet is anesthetized for a full examination and dental cleaning”. excerpt from: https://vetdentistrynm.com/about-us/faq/

[aimee]

Spycar,

Not a lot of research but so far what has been published hasn’t shown a protective benefit of a “natural” diet. The following is an excerpt from “Impact of Nutrition on Dental issues in companion animals” Chandler 2014

“Proponents of natural foods or of feeding raw bones have claimed this will improve the cleanliness of teeth in pets; further claims are sometimes made that feeding commercial pet food contributes to the high prevalence of periodontal disease in domesticated cats and dogs.
However, a study in foxhounds fed raw carcases, including raw bones, showed they had varying degrees of periodontal disease as well as a high prevalence of tooth fractures (Robinson and Gorrel, 1997).
The skulls of 29 African wild dogs eating a “natural diet”, mostly wild antelope, showed evidence of periodontal disease (41 per cent), teeth wearing (83 per cent) and fractured teeth (48 per cent; Steenkamp and Gorrel, 1999).
A study in small feral cats on Marion Island (South Africa) that had been eating a variety of natural foods (mostly birds) showed periodontal disease in 61 per cent of cats, although only nine per cent had evidence of calculus (Verstraete et al, 1996).
In a study in Australia of feral cats eating a mixed natural diet there was less calculus compared to domestic cats fed dry or canned commercial food, although, again, there was no difference in the prevalence of periodontal disease between the two groups (Clarke and Cameron, 1998)

These studies show a natural diet, or one containing raw bones, does appear to confer some
protection against dental calculus, but not against the more destructive periodontal disease. There is also the risk of fractured teeth”

[Patricia A]

Reese maybe we should copy n paste our posts on the dog food nutrition forum, diet and health or dog food ingredients. Think it would fit under those forums better and maybe get some help with this. I’m also trying to figure out if the Stella chewys Rabbit is less fat then Primal. My brain is fried from trying to figure out these labels. Why do WE have to do it. All I know is that when I look under the reviews of advisor he puts under the raw lets say high protein/average fat/low carbs and when I look under same brand with same protein but freeze dried he has a different review of maybe high protein/HIGH fat/low carbs. Maybe that’s why my chubby is not losing weight since switching to freeze dried. Maybe I’m giving her MORE fat then when I was giving some Fromm kibble and canned? Will call Primal tomorrow and Stella’s also and pin them down about this.

[Susan]

Hi,
Doodles are known for skin allergies, are you on facebook? join this group a few Doodle owners are in the group, “Dog Allergies, Issues and Other Information Support Group”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DogAllergiesIssuesandOtherInformationSupporGroup/

The only true way to test what foods your dog is sensitive too is to do a food elimination diet & do it in the cooler months, not Spring & Summer when pollens, flowers, allergens are high…
These Blood, Salvia & Hair/Fur test give false positives. My vet told me when some of her clients push to have the blood test done even thought she has told them you’re wasting your money, my vet said she has found the foods the dog is eating at the time will come up as a positive… When your dog had his blood test was he eating any of these ingredients rice, pork, peas & potatoes etc that came back positive?? if you do the blood test again it will come back with different food allergens & not the same ones, this is why it’s not realiable…. also as the dog ages their allergies get worse, my boy suffers with Seasonal Evironment allergies (Only bad Spring & Summer )& food sensitivites, he’ll be turning 10yrs old Nov & 2017 Summer till now which is Winter in Australia has been the worst year I’ve had with him, his vet told me it will get worse & wants him on Apoquel before Summer comes in a 4months, he reacted really bad last Summer Dec 2017 & had a really bad IBD flare which attacked his Esophagus, I nilly put him too sleep in Febuary this year but his vet begged me to please wait another month for Summer to finish…..Finally in April he started to get better after I started to feed him “Wellness Core” Large Breed dry kibble…

I’d say your dog is suffering from Environment Allergies in the Summer months & has food sensitivities, keep a diary & you will start to see a pattern as the seasons & years pass, he’ll be worse thru the hotter months, he’ll do better in the cooler winter months as long as he isn’t eating anything he’s sensitive too, it’s best to change foods etc when Winter is approaching when outdoor allergens aren’t as high & won’t interfer with your food elimination trial…

Have you tried a Hypoallergenic vet diet? you can do elimination food diet with these Hypoallergenic vet diets…once your dog is doing well on 1 of the Hypoallergenic vet diets & doesn’t have any skin problems this is when you introduce 1 new ingredient to his diet & introduce 1 of the foods that came up positive in his blood test, start him on Potato or rice, boil some potatoes & add 2 spoons potatoe with his vet diet meals or give the boiled potatoe or rice as a treat & see does he start reacting, it can take from 20mins up to 6 weeks for the dog to start reacting to an ingredient when he’s sensitive, my dog reacts within 20mins after eating an ingredient he’s sensitive too.. you fed either the rice or potatoes for 6 weeks only stop feeding if he reacts to the potatoe..
Its not the starches in the food he’s sensitive too its the protein in the food he’ll react too….
I nilly forgot “BATHS” weekly baths or as soon as he is itchy, rolling rubbing on grass, carpets, licking scratching give him a bath twice a week is best thru the hot months…
Baths wash off all allergens on skin paws face etc I use ” Malaseb” medicated shampoo its relieves itchy skin & paws..

Have you looked are “Freeze Dried Raw formula’s instead of dry kibbles?

* “Ziwi Peak”
https://www.ziwipets.com/catalog/ziwi-peak-dog-nutrition

* “Farmina” Natural & Delicious or the other Farmina formula’s
https://www.farmina.com/us/d-dog-food.html

* “Canidae” Pure Ancestral Raw Grain Free coated formula’s..
https://www.canidae.com/dogs/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-fish-formula-with-salmon-mackerel-pollock-whitefish-tuna/

Just make sure any grain free kibbles you feed are under 20% in Legumes or are Legume free.. Until FDA finds out why Lemuges is blocking Taurine….

[HoundMusic]

“I would like to know who funded the article. UC Davis has done studies in the past that turned out to be inaccurate (feeding raw) and they frequently have Science Diet, Royal Canin and Purina products in their pictures. It seems like with cat food issues years ago why advise against grainfree and simply add taurine? Makes me wonder if certain companies want to stop the hype of healthy food.”

It’s not inaccurate simply because you don’t believe it. UC Davis found nutritional deficiencies in 200 raw food recipes that were collected from published recipes, and advised owners to consult with a nutritionist before feeding home prepared diets. That’s it. There were actually no inaccuracies in the statement, however, a website called “Truth About Pet Food” claims they overestimated how much of certain nutrients a dog required; ergo, in their version of logic, UC Davis made an error. If you believe UC Davis’ advice to seek out a Veterinary nutritionalist before going into a raw diet makes them disreputable, your definition of the word must be very narrow.

BTW, I’m so sick of hearing that there is some Veterinary agenda to keep pets sick to line their own pockets, and quite honestly, I’ve had so many bad Vets that I’m no fan of the profession.

[Lisa T]

Hi all,

I have an 8-month old puppy who weighs about 16.5 lbs. We have had him for 6 months, and this is my first puppy…so please be patient with me 🙂

About a month and a half ago, Milo had diarrhea. After 2 days, I took him to the vet. The vet gave him Flagyl, and told me to feed him boiled chicken and steamed rice, perhaps with a little canned pumpkin mixed in. This firmed up the stool so that it was “soft” rather than true diarrhea. The fecal test came back negative.

We continued the diet as suggested. Then it seemed like there was a day and a half where he would strain/squat, but nothing came out. We went back to the vet, and this time, they gave us an antibiotic, and also a probiotic (both a paste and capsules). We finished those, and the stools seem to firm up a bit…but as soon as we add even a little bit of kibble in (originally Diamond Naturals Chicken & Rice, then Stella & Chewy Raw Coated, then and now TOTW that doesn’t have chicken in it)…it goes back to soft serve ice cream consistency.

Milo is a happy camper. He does not seem sick at all. He still only poops 2-3 times per day, and never has accidents.

I am worried that so many weeks on chicken and rice is not good for him. The vet has now suggested I bring him in for an expensive malabsorption blood panel.

Could it be a chicken allergy?
Could it be the flea medication he took a couple of days before this all started?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thank you!

[Patricia A]

LOL Anon. Just can’t win. My dogs were on Fromm for years and did great. I switched to Stella and Chewy’s because I thought the hype about it being BAKED and less processed of course would be healthier .I don’t know but my three love the kibble. It’s also a smaller bag and now that I use very little as a base to freeze dried it stays fresher. But now I look at the ingredients on their small breed red meat and peas are their third ingredient. On their f/b page this is their reply to all the concerns regarding this: “we are aware of the FDA release dated July 12 regarding a potential association between reports of canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs, and certain pet foods containing peas, lentils, other legume seeds, or potatoes as main ingredients. We have no indication that any of our products are involved in FDA’s investigation. We work closely with veterinarians and nutritionists to ensure that our diets are complete and balanced and meet AAFCO requirements. Please know that our freeze-dried raw and frozen raw diets are free of peas, lentils and potatoes, and contain less than 1% of the legume seed fenugreek. Also, we do add taurine to our raw and kibble diets. We continue to be confident in the safety and nutritional quality of all of our diets. We appreciate the work that FDA does on behalf of pet parents, and will monitor this investigation as it unfolds.” Stupid response when the problem possibly IS regarding legumes. lol
I do like the ingredients of that Fromm recipe though. Like I said I only use it as a very little base to the freeze dried. I think will switch it up again with the Fromm that doesn’t have all the peas regardless of the beet pulp. Thank’s for sharing that.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[Susan]

Hi
I think people are confusing these health problems caused by Legumes with Potatoes aswell…
Earlier this month, the Food and Drug Administration announced that it is investigating a link between these newer Exotic protein, high Legume Grain Free diets with a common type of canine heart disease, DCM.
FDA also mentioned Potatoes awell but I think Potatoes were only mentioned cause these newer grain free kibbles have Peas, Chickpeas & Potatoes, or they’ll have Peas, Green Lentils, Red lentils & Sweet Potatoes….
So Potatoes were mentioned on the FDA report??…
“Guilit by association”
I have seen NO proof that it’s potatoes blocking taurine & causing heart problems in dogs?
If anyone has any proof that potatoes are blocking taurine causing deficiency of Amino Acid Taurine in Dogs.
Please post this proof..

When G/F kibbles first came out years ago they all had Potatoes & Sweet Potatoes & there were NO health problems in dogs..
There’s kibbles that have healthy grains & potatoes, these kibbles have caused no health problems, these health problems happened since these newer G/F kibbles were very high in Legumes…
Types of Legumes
Chickpeas.
Beans.
Peas.
Lentils.
Lupins.

Royal Canine & Hills make vet formula’s that contain Potatoes but they do not have any vet diets containing Legumes..???

Potatoes are not related to Legumes.
Legumes are the fruit or pod of the botanical family Leguminosae. The potato tuber (Solanaceae family) is actually the greatly enlarged tip of the underground stem of the potato.
Potatoes are a Tublr plant with notable tuberous roots include sweet potato, cassava….

If you’re looking for a new kibble look for kibbles that have Sweet potatoes, Rice, Oats, Potatoes, Blueberries, Butternut Squash, Pumkin, healthy grains etc as long as your dog doesn’t have any food sensitivitives to certain grains & ingredients…
Make sure there’s no more then 20% legumes (peas) in the dry kibble, if the kibble has peas just make sure the peas are further down the ingredient list, 5th 6th 7th ingredient & peas are NOT 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th ingredient…

Here’s a kibble ingredient list that I’d avoid, this formula is very high in Legumes….

“Kangaroo, Kangaroo Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flour, Sunflower Oil (preserved with Citric Acid), Flaxseed, Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Pea Protein, Natural Flavors, Salt,”

*There’s Red Lentils, Green Lentils, Chickpeas & Peas, all these Legume ingredients make the protein % higher with Plant Proteins, Kangaroo is expensive so there’s more plant proteins, then meat proteins also look at ingredient spliting with peas? peas are 3rd ingredients, then again Pea Flour is 5th ingredient, then pea protein is 11th ingredient, if they didn’t split the peas up then the peas would probably have been 1st or 2nd ingredient…

also rotate your kibbles with different brands, so your dog has variety in his diet, if 1 brand of kibble does have something wrong with it, your dog isnt eating this brand long enough to cause any health problems cause your rotating his diet….

Look at Freeze Dried raw aswell, there’s some good freeze dried dog foods, the freeze dried ingredients are not cooked at very high temperatures like kibble is made so the nutrients stays in the ingredients….

“Ingredient spliting” is a trick these Pet Food Companies do, they split the peas up, in the ingredient list, pea flour, pea protein, pea fiber, when you see these ingredient avoid these dog foods as they are full of peas, the peas are really the 1st ingredient but cause they have split the peas into pea flour, pea protein, pea fiber, then the peas move further down the ingredient list but really the peas are 1st ingredient & your meat protein is probably 3rd ingredient….
Ingredient list are written when ingredients are raw, not cooked, these pet food companies know all the tricks & cons so we buy their foods, we just have to be smarter then them & learn how to read an ingredient list..

Please post kibble brands & their formula’s that are legume free or 20% or less in legumes, to help people that dont know what to feed till we get more answers..
Please no nasty posts…

[Lisa G]

YES! I started transitioning my dogs & sons dog & a family members dog(his dog was living with us for about 8mos) from RR chicken kibble & they all had issues. I did it slowly as we should but didnt matter. I believe its whatevers in it or what they took out, who knows. My family members dog Ranger got HORRIBLY sick off of it & did a google search myself- its not uncommon for dogs to have this reaction to RR gain free kibble & many dogs just dont tolerate grain free. My opinion based on experiences is unless your pet has an allergy to grains, a grain free diet isnt good for them.My dogs, sons dog, Ranger & even my cat have had reactionary issues with grain free foods.As soon as I realized they were alll getting diarrhea, nausea , some vomitingl, ethargic I took them off it and put them on striclty RR chicken kibble, as they were. Within a 1/2 day to a day they were all getting better.They recovered fairly quickly. It took Ranger a few days to recover(he had it the worse because hes a bigger dog so maybe because he had the most??? I dont recall the ingredients but I will never feed any of my pets grain free, especially RRs. I did write to the company & after a long drawn out exchange of emails they sent me a coupon to replace the bag as we didnt use very much. It wasnt cool how they treated me but in the end they did give me a coupon to replace the bag & my dogs enjoy RR so Ive stuck it out lol

[Bobby dog]

Hi Lauren H:
For most of my dog’s life (7+ years old) the main part of his diet has been kibble w/ toppers and some home cooked meals a few times a week. I use commercial raw for some of his toppers with no issues and he loves it. I feed some kibble recipes from Pro Plan, Fromm, Exclusive, Purina One, Wellness, and Annamaet.

[Lauren H]

Pitlove,

That’s great to hear, thank you. I’m leaning towards a mix of raw and kibble just to make sure that they’re getting all of the nutrients needed in their diet. This is what my vet recommended and feels like the best choice for me and my family. My vet recommended Wysong adult dog food. Does anyone have a favorite kibble that they like to mix with raw? I’d imagine most raw feeders are strict and only feed raw but would be curious if anyone here mixes the two.

Pitlove, thanks again!

[Eve M]

Honestly, I am concerned. I try not to overreact to this constant barrage of new info regarding dog food ingredients, but I’m bothered.

I emailed Stella & Chewy’s about the RAW BLEND – red meat, freeze-dried, baked kibble with freeze-dried raw. Peas are the 3rd ingredient and lentils are 4th. Below is what looks like an automated email response which did nothing to instill confidence.

ALSO, to pile on… if you go to Clean Label Project, foods like ORIJEN get 1 star for contaminants which I’m sure relates to the inclusion of fish. Don’t think Orijen includes peas or lentils.

“I and LOVE and YOU, Lamb and Bison” scored low on CLEAN LABEL PROJECT’s contaminants and high on ingredient quality. Lovely, until I actually read the ingredients… 4th peas and 5th lentils.

All of this feels like literally, PICK YOUR POISON. For some reason, clean label project is being scrubbed by dog food advisor. HMM.

Good luck everyone.

Evelyn

STELLA & Chewy’s email….
Thank you for your email. We are aware of the FDA release dated July 12 regarding a potential association between reports of canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) in dogs, and certain pet foods containing peas, lentils, other legume seeds, or potatoes as main ingredients. We have no indication that any of our products are involved in FDA’s investigation. We work closely with veterinarians and nutritionists to ensure that our diets are complete and balanced and meet AAFCO requirements. Please know that our freeze-dried raw and frozen raw diets are free of peas, lentils and potatoes, and contain less than 1% of the legume seed fenugreek. Also, we do add taurine to our raw and kibble diets. We continue to be confident in the safety and nutritional quality of all of our diets. We appreciate the work that FDA does on behalf of pet parents, and will monitor this investigation as it unfolds.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Eve M.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Eve M.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Eve M.

[Acroyali]

I have no idea on your location but I would personally skip supermarket meat and go to a dog food co-op or find a farmer or butcher you trust with all your heart if you want to keep feeding raw.
Go to a local big box store or grocer that often has meat on sale, take note of the return area, and you’ll probably see meat left in carts in un-refrigerated conditions.
If your dog is having health problems, food quality matters. Most grocers handle meat meant for human consumption as just that–meat that will be cooked to a safe temp.
Most healthy dogs can handle meat that wasn’t stored very well. But with Addisons, I’d be extra careful in making sure this meat was frozen immediately and kept that way until you thaw it in your own kitchen.
If you’re worried, look into cooked diets. At least until she’s what you’d consider stable.
Balance it has a great site for this. Dog aware does too, with guidelines for preparing a cooked diet.
If you’re 100% stuck on raw…(and I say this as a raw feeder myself!!!)..
Find a co op or a distributor. My Pet Carnivore, Hare Today, and We feed Raw (google search) are all apparently good companies with good track records for quality foods with good handling. MyPetCarnivore delivers to parts of the USA, Hare today and We feed Raw offers delivery and the shipping chargers may be more than expected (insulated boxes aren’t free) but it might be a good potential solution to look into.
Another option is seeking out training or kennel clubs and asking the people there is anyone feeds raw and where they get their food. Conformation and sport people are usually looking for an edge, and can direct you to a local co-op, a good company like Hare Today etc., or a reputable butcher shop.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Acroyali.

[Lauren H]

Hello,

My dog, Tarzan, a 6 yr old 75 lbs lab mix was just diagnosed with Addison’s disease last week. I had been noticing signs of a decline in energy and overall health with him for the past year. I switched to raw 6 months ago hoping that would help. He did improve for awhile but he later declined in overall health and energy after a few months. Luckily we found the cause and he is acting like a puppy again! So happy to have my boy back.

I’d like to continue to feed him raw as I believe it does a better job keeping him properly hydrated and feel like it is the healthiest diet for him. My vet believes in a raw food diet but he thinks the food should come from a trusted dog food company that has been specifically processed for dogs to eat raw. Previously, I’ve been feeding my dogs based off of the prey model and adding about a tbsp of veggies to their meals. Sometimes, I’d even feed Tarzan whole rabbits, fur and all, which he happily ate, no problem. My vet doesn’t think this is a good idea to buy whole rabbits or to buy my food from a grocery store even though I buy high quality, organic, grass fed or pature raised meat. He’s worried that since my dog has a weakened immune system that his body might not be able to handful the potentially harmful bacteria that resides on grocery store raw meat.

I’m really not sure what to think. I want to do the best thing for my boy but there is so much conflicting information out there. Does anyone have experience feeding raw to a dog with Addison’s? Do you worry about their immune systems not being able to process all the bacteria that an average dog would have no problem with? How much veggies do you like to add?

Currently I’m buying either vital essentials or small batch prey model patties or chub and adding Sojos premix, about 2-3 tbsp per meal. He also gets turmeric, green mussel and fish oil each meal as well. This has become quite expensive and I’m not sure how long my husband will allow this to carry on….I could be spending half the amount I am now if I could go back to feeding him the whole rabbits, grocery store meat and fish.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Kelley H]

Hi, my name is Kelley and I am new to the forum. I work for CountryPet Naturals, and this post was recently brought to my attention by one of our customers. I would like to clarify some of the points mentioned above as they are not an accurate representation of our pasteurized frozen dog and cat food rolls. I see the original post has three main concerns, so I will address each of them below.

1. Our website and product packaging accurately list all ingredients that go into the food as required by the FDA. Our food contains muscle meat (including heart), offals (organs such as lung, liver and kidney), small amounts of ingredients to bind the meat together (such as pea fiber, tapioca starch, vegetable oil), and vitamins & minerals which are required by the AAFCO to ensure a complete and balanced food for dogs and cats of all life stages. The minimum meat content in any of these recipes is 92%.

The protein and fat contents vary slightly depending on the recipe, but we are required to publish the minimum levels of protein and fat that may be found in our food. As a small family-owned company, we are conservative with our minimum values, with lab testing consistently showing levels higher than we publish. If we look at the dry-matter basis of our Lamb Recipe Dog Food, for example, the protein comes out to a minimum of 38%, fat is a minimum of 34%, fiber a maximum of 3%, and ash a maximum of 16%. The remainder is known as Nitrogen Free Extract (or carbohydrates), which comes out approximately 9%. In reality, the protein and fat content is higher than what we state on the packaging, and the ash and carbohydrates are lower, but we always stay on the conservative side and have never in our history had to recall a product from the market.

2. To the best of my knowledge, our food has never contained Menadione and is certainly not an ingredient included in any of our recipes. All ingredients are posted on our website and printed on the product packaging.

3. None of our foods are raw, and we do not advertise the product as raw. However, some of our customers mistake the product for raw due to the high meat content and texture. Instead of offering a completely raw diet, our Naturally New Zealand line is pasteurized to help keep our customers’ pets and family safe. Raw meat can carry dangerous bacteria such as Salmonella and E. coli, which cause food-borne illness. Again, we choose to do this to avoid recalls, the likes of which have plagued companies that do offer raw diets.

Overall, the ingredients that go into our pet food are 92%-plus sourced from human-grade animal products, and those animals are pasture-raised in New Zealand and free of hormones, antibiotics and grain diets. Our goal is to provide a safe, high-quality product that we can be proud of, and I strongly believe we have accomplished that goal with this dog and cat food. Here’s a link to product reviews posted to our website by happy pet parents.

Please let me know if there are any questions and I’ll be happy to provide answers.

Thank you,
Kelley

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Kelley H.

[lynette w]

I would like to know who funded the article. UC Davis has done studies in the past that turned out to be inaccurate (feeding raw) and they frequently have Science Diet, Royal Canin and Purina products in their pictures. It seems like with cat food issues years ago why advise against grainfree and simply add taurine? Makes me wonder if certain companies want to stop the hype of healthy food.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by lynette w.

[William D]

I feed my ladies the raw dog diet

______________________________________________________________
There are no solved problems; there are only problems that are more or less solved.
All the best,William [url=https://diceus.com/]Diceus[/url]

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by William D.

[Susan]

Hi Di F,
sounds like he was feed a cooked diet, you might have to cook for him, feed him what you eat as long as it has no onions, no ingredients dogs can’t eat..
join face book groups, like Monica Segals group called “K-9 Kitchen”
Lew Olson f/b group called “K-9 Nutrition”

*Judy Morgan DVM here’s her Pup loaf very easy to make & is balanced.

*Here’s Dr Judy Morgans face book page. ‘Like’ & follow her, there’s lots of good information..
https://www.facebook.com/JudyMorganDVM/

He’ll be healthier eating cooked diet instead of dry or wet dog food.. He’s a Smart dog & can tell the difference from a fresh cooked meal & processed meal…

You could look at at Freeze Dried raw & Air Dried raw..send “Ziwi Peak” email & explain what is happening & ask for some samples of their air dried formula’s, make sure you include your address & ph nb..
“Ziwi Peak” – https://www.ziwipets.com/catalog/ziwi-peak-dog-nutrition
Do the same with “Kiwi Kitchen” – http://www.kiwikitchens.nz/dog-food/freeze-dried-dog-food/

[Spy Car]

Feed him a Prey Model Raw diet. He will love it and be much healthier as a result.

A dog who refuses to eat so-called “dog food” is a smart dog. Dogs were not shaped by evolution to eat a cereal-based diet.

Bill

[Acroyali]

@Kathleen Q,
We have the old version of Lew’s book. “Raw and natural nutrition.”
Despite what others here say, a good diet is not homeopathic nor anything close to it. This poster does not understand what homeopathic medicine is. It has nothing to do with diet.
If they would take 15 minutes to educate themselves, they’d see that but sadly they won’t.
Lew has a blog that might be helpful at b naturals dot com. Search “heart healthy”.
Our guy lived for years past the vets expectations with the help of this person, despite their “homeopathic” (LOL) ways 😉
This is not a raw friendly site unfortunately. If you’re after help in raw feeding, this is not the site to visit. Sad that the support that existed 5 years ago has disappeared.

[William S]

We have small mix breed and she had episodes about 1-2 times per week and found the raw food diet now we only feed high fat raw with freeze dried raw liver as treats it has been very successful she has episodes maybe once every couple months and when she does they are very mild relative to before ( her diet is mostly beef with 1 raw frozen chicken wing per week it with 80-90% calories coming from fat )

[Cathy B]

Hi Lori, here is a recipe from Dr. Judy Morgan’s book on a heart healthy diet.
1lb beef cubed or ground
1lb beef heart cubed or ground
3oz beef liver cubed or ground
2 eggs without shell
4oz carrot grated or processed
2oz kale finely chopped or processed
1TBS fresh ginger root grated or processed
Add 2 (canned) sardines at time of feeding

This diet can ground and mixed together, baked at 325 for 30-45 min in a loaf or square baking dish, cooked on low 4-6 hours in a slow cooker, or fed raw.

Good treats for dogs with heart disease include pieces of freeze dried heart, green tripe, or liver, carrots, hard boiled eggs and baked kale chips.

Raw goat milk is high in Taurine and makes a great addition.

Add 1/2 tsp finely ground egg shell to every pound of meat

Her wed site has LOTS of info on how to treat and keep your pets healthy.

Her new book has a lot of info on heart disease and recipes

[Patricia A]

Thank you Bill for the info and reassurance to stick with the raw. I have a base of Stella Chewy’s Kibble but it a VERY small portion of their diet. I rotate with Primal duck, rabbit, turkey Sardine and venison. They only like rehydrated freeze dried. Stella’s I only give the chicken and salmon cod. They also get a little egg in morning. When we have steak or salmon they get lucky and have that as a topper. I have three chihuahuas’. One being 16 who is still very spunky. She took a liking to the Stella’s kibble small breed. I switched from Fromm because I thought it was a better kibble. So it’s great to have all three on the same one.As said it’s only used as less then 1/8 cup . The 16 year old will not eat any of the raw. She lovers a topper of wellness core chicken/broccoli only. I just hate the carrageenan in it but at 16 I’m glad she eats enthusiastically. Trying hard to get my slightly chubby eight year old to lose some weight. She gets a lot of exercise and eliminated the origen treat for her. Cut down on everything but still not losing. Primal shows lower then average carbs as well as Stella’s.. I have yet to find a freeze dried that has NO carbs. Suggestions appreciated.
Crazy4cats I think your’e right. I’m thinking of all the crappy dog foods sold at supermarkets that have very little meat and this taurine deficiency was not a problem. Hope we find out the link soon. Until then legumes, potatoes, pea protein etc. should be far down the list of ingredients just in case.

[Susan]

Hi Blkdoodle,

Buy tin sardines in spring water/olive oil from supermarket, check that the salt % isn’t too high, (compare with all the different sardine brands) drain out all the spring water/olive oil, put the tin sardines in a air tight glass container put in fridge, then add 1-2 spoons sardines a day to 1 of your girl meals & the Sardines will balance her diet with EPA,DHA, Vitamin, minerals, calcium, taurine etc…
I’ve been posting Steven Browns recommendations for years now, add 1-2 spoons of sardines to 1 of your dog daily meals…
Steve Brown posted for kibble feeders who were worried the Omega oils had gone rancid in kibble after it had been opened.
Steve posted
Add to 1 kibble meal a day 2 spoons of Sardines in spring water or Olive Oil, for raw feeders also add 1-2 mussels & a pinch of kelp…
for a 40lb dog add 1/4 can of sardines 1 serving a day.

Sardines contain some of the highest concentrations of EPA and DHA omega-3s of all fish, making them an excellent dietary addition, and they also contain taurine and vitamin E, another potent antioxidant.

[Spy Car]

@Patricia A, the article is misinformed. You want a raw diet with high fat and protein, No carbs. No plant products. 10% edible bone, 10% organs.

Calories from fat should be in the 50-60% range *remembering fat has 2.25 times the calories per gram than protein (or carbs).

When you get a dog off carbs they metabolize fat as their primary energy source, and do so with great efficiency. Far metabolism proves steady and almost unlimited energy and improves a dog’s aerobic capacity in a dramatic fashion.

The fat in a balanced raw diet is necessary and healthful.

Bill

[Patricia A]

So in further research I found this article that I think makes sense to me. What I took away from it is that it’s both grains AND starches that displace quality protein that intern causes amino acid deficiencies. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Now I’m feeding some kibble with topper of freeze dried raw. But trouble is according to article raw with high fat means they are not getting enough protein from the raw diet. I wish I can find a raw that’s not also high in fat. I am just exhausted from my daily dog food research already and now this new worry about grain free. My take is that when companies got on the band wagon of touting “NO CORN, NO SOY etc” they just replaced it with other cheap fillers and fooled everyone into thinking all grain free recipes are outstanding foods.

[Susan]

Hi,
I would look for a limited ingredient single protein dry kibble, this Victor Active has 4 meats, excellent for a dog who has a healthy Intestinal tract..
My boy has IBD I had to start with a vet diet, then once we found a vet diet that agreed with him & firmed his poos & was doing 2 small firm poos a day “Eukanuba Intestinal” Low Residue formula he had to stay on Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet for 6-12months to strengthen his immune system (Gut), then after 9months, I started trying a new dry kibble but it had to have 1 single meat, limited ingredient kibble & he finally did well on Taste Of The Wild Pacific Stream, Smoked Salmon but in Australia our some of our TOTW formula’s do NOT have any Peas, Lentils Chickpeas like the America TOTW, we still get the old TOTW formula’s.. he did really well on the peas free TOTW Pacific Stream Salmon formula except he started vomiting back up the dry kibble, now I’ve learnt to stay away from any fish kibbles as they are higher in Contaminates & Toxins, I changed him over to the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula it just has Lamb as meat protein & he did really well, no skin problems & firm poo’s, then I started introducing other foods in his diet so he’d get use to different ingredients, I even went thru a Animal Nutritionist & put him on a raw elimination diet, Kangarro & blended veggies, his poos were beautiful BUT he kept regurgitating back up water & some digested raw, then he was getting bad acid reflux & after regurgitating the raw the acid burnt esophagus so I put him back on dry food & started to cook the raw diet & feed it for Lunch & feed 4 smaller meals thru the day..

I would take baby steps, you will know once she has stopped taken all her meds…
Why does your 4-5 month old pup have UTI’s, she is so young?? also the pancreas test, you’d know if she had Pancreas problems, she’d be vomiting sometimes, eating grass & having pancreas pain & maybe sloppy poo’s, but her Pancreas would young & healthy??
I really think she is too young to be having problems with her Pancreas??..
What colour are her poos?? if her poos are yellow, smelly & sloppy look into Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth, S.I.B.O……while she was taking Metronidazole (Flagyl) were her poos better? sometimes they need to take the Metronidazole for 21-28 days to kill any bad bacteria in stomach/small bowel.. this is what Patch ended up having SIBO & Helicobacter-Pylori, it took a few years to get everything healthy aagain, now I can feed him any foods as long as he’s not sensitive to those ingredients, he does well on Chicken for stomach & bowel BUT not for his skin, he gets red yeasty paws & red skin around his mouth after he eats Chicken, Barley, Oats, Tapioca, Corn & cooked Carrots make his ears itchy…

If you can afford a vet diet that’s where I’d start, as Intestinal Vet diets have FOS, MOS, Inulin, Vitamin B, Beet Pulp, everything to help make the Intestinal Tract healthy, then once she is stable on a vet diet for at least 6 months then start her on a premium dog food that only has 1 meat protein & a few carbs..but slowly start introducing over 2 week period if you see her poos going sloppy while introducing new food, then stop new food & go back a few steps & stay on what she was doing firm poos on & keep a diary write everything down, food, ingredients, flea med, worm meds etc just in case you needs to remember certain things….I wouldnt give her any of those Flea chews yet, just use the spot on flea repellents for now till you work out her stomach bowel problem, just in case she has a very sensitive stomach/bowel, I just read a post on a Staffy f/b group, the lady gave her dog a Bravecto chew will the vet gave her dog the Bravecto chew & he’s been in vet hospital on a drip now for 1 week, dont ever vaccinate, worm & give flea chews all at the same time some vets do this on vet visits I know teh rescue vets do this & some dog can not cope always leave 1-2 weeks inbetween meds vaccination & flea repellents etc
How much does the bag of kibble say to feed her for the weight of your pup? maybe feed 3 smaller meals a day, thats what your suppose to feed a puppy 3 meals a day then they go to the 2 larger meals as they are older.. also have you tried boiled chicken or turkey breast & some boiled potato or try boil rice & see are her poos firm?? maybe for lunch over weekend try a small cooked meal, or a wet can vet diet the Royal Canine Intestinal low fiber is really good, some vet diets are formulated for growning pups your vet will know which ones Im pretty sure the Hills I/D Digestive Care wet & dry is formulataed for growing pups this way you”ll see does she do firm poos over a 2 week period? or try the single meat limited carbs next & see if poos are sloppy then try a vet diet.. Keep us informed with what happens with Zanya’s health….

[Amelia Z]

Yes, you are correct. I have a call into the sport dog company. Don’t know how a “non” sport dog will do on this food. Not sure if it is too rich.

I haven’t feed grains to my dogs. Auggie was tested for food sensitivity and he is sensitive to corn. In general I don’t think grains are good for dogs. Dogs are carnivores, so the main source of protein in their diet should be meat. Grains are inferior sources of protein. Diets with higher grain and carbohydrate content can lead to weight gain, allergies and other potential health problems. I believe grains can become moldy as well. Not to mentions they are sprayed with pesticides. The problem is pet food manufacturers need a filler in the foods, so it’s either grains or legumes. Very few kibble is free of both of these.
As far as Purina and Royal Canin. just look at the ingredients, junk! I don’t trust either of these companies, it’s all about the money. Purina who makes Beneful, shouldn’t be on the market.
Royal Canin 1st two lines of ingredients: (doesn’t sound like something I would eat)
Brown rice, chicken by-product meal, oat groats, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, wheat, chicken fat, natural flavors, powdered cellulose, dried plain beet pulp, fish oil, wheat gluten, dried tomato pomace, vegetable oil, sodium silico aluminate, calcium carbonate, potassium..
The 1st ingredient in food should be a named protein (chicken, beef, pork etc) NOT rice in my opinion. My older golden who is 7, always had yeasty ears. The past couple of months I am only giving them kibble one meal, their other meal I am giving them freeze dried-Orijen regional red. I use to clean his ears every other day. Now, no yeast in 3 weeks. Coincidence, I don’t think so. I do believe that kibble is the worse type of food to feed, so I have been researching other options. I know the big push is to go raw, but I just can’t do that yet, which is why I am giving one meal freeze dried. Although, it’s getting pretty expensive.

[Patricia A]

Dr. Becker wrote …Unfortunately, some processed pet food advocates are using the link between grain-free dog foods and DCM to try to push pet parents back in the direction of grain-based diets. Don’t be fooled. The problem with grain-free formulas isn’t the lack of grains! It’s the high level of starchy carbohydrates coupled with the extreme high-heat processing methods used to produce these diets.
So would I be safe to assume a commercial raw as I’m feeding is safe? What about low carb kibble? Very confused.

[Patricia A]

Just like to share this. By Dr. Karen Shaw Becker

Thirty years ago, researchers at the School of Veterinary Medicine at University of California, Davis discovered the link between taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM), a heart muscle disease in cats.1 According to Morris Animal Foundation, “The veterinary community was stunned” by this news, in part because the UC-Davis researchers were able to prove that DCM was reversible when cats received the amount of taurine they needed in their diet.2

Of course, most holistic veterinarians and others knowledgeable about veterinary nutrition and who understand the link between diet and disease weren’t surprised. Taurine, which is an amino acid, is found in meat, and cats, as meat-eating obligate carnivores, haven’t developed the ability to make their own taurine.

This means it’s an essential amino acid for cats — they must get it from their diet, and 30 years ago when UC-Davis veterinarians made their discovery, we were well into the age of processed pet food, having made cats (and dogs) almost entirely dependent on humans for their nutrition.

Pet food formulators often guessed at the effects of extensive processing on nutrients. This is especially true for pet food (feed) that blends leftover pieces and parts from the human meat processing industry with other sources of questionable nutrients before they are rendered and cooked at high temperatures, depleting the nutrients that existed before processing, as well as altering the chemical composition of ingredients (and often creating toxic byproducts along the way).

Are Dogs With DCM Taurine-Deficient?
As soon as the UC-Davis researchers published their findings in cats back in the late 1980s, veterinary cardiologists began looking for taurine and other nutrient deficiencies in their canine patients with DCM.

No direct cause-and-effect relationship could be established, since the vast majority of dogs with DCM weren’t taurine-deficient. Taurine is not considered an essential amino acid for dogs because like many other species, their bodies have the metabolic capacity to manufacture taurine from the dietary amino acids cysteine and methionine.

To further confuse the issue, while the disease is inherited in certain breeds, for example, the Doberman Pinscher, in other breeds it is indeed linked to taurine deficiency. In the mid-1990s, UC-Davis conducted a study of American Cocker Spaniels with DCM and found low taurine levels in many of the dogs. The study authors wrote in their abstract:

“We conclude that ACS [American Cocker Spaniels] with DCM are taurine-deficient and are responsive to taurine and carnitine supplementation. Whereas myocardial function did not return to normal in most dogs, it did improve enough to allow discontinuation of cardiovascular drug therapy and to maintain a normal quality of life for months to years.”3

A 2003 study showed that some Newfoundlands had taurine deficiency-related DCM,4 and two years later, another study was published about a family of Golden Retrievers with taurine deficiency and reversible DCM.5 As veterinary cardiologists continued to encounter cases of taurine deficiency-related DCM in dogs, and continued to search for a common link, diet was thought to play a major role in development of the disease.

UC-Davis Is Currently Conducting Research on Taurine Deficiency-Related DCM in Golden Retrievers
The dogs receiving the most focus right now due to escalating rates of DCM related to taurine deficiency are Golden Retrievers. Veterinarian and researcher Dr. Joshua Stern, Chair of the Department of (Veterinary) Cardiology at UC-Davis, and owner of a Golden Retriever Lifetime Study participant named Lira, is looking into the situation.

He’s collecting blood samples and cardiac ultrasound results from Goldens both with DCM and without the disease. Stern agrees diet plays a role, but he also suspects there are genes at work that increase the risk of the condition in the breed.

“I suspect that Golden Retrievers might have something in their genetic make-up that makes them less efficient at making taurine,” Stern told the Morris Animal Foundation. “Couple that with certain diets, and you’ve given them a double hit. If you feed them a diet that has fewer building blocks for taurine or a food component that inhibits this synthesis, they pop up with DCM.”6

Dr. Stern has written an open letter to veterinarians and owners of Goldens that you can read here. In it, he briefly explains his research and recommends a four-step process dog parents can undertake if they believe their pet is at risk for, or is showing signs of DCM:

1. If you believe your dog is at risk for taurine-deficient Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) and wish to have taurine levels tested, please request a whole blood taurine level be submitted (lithium heparin tube) for analysis. The laboratory I recommend can be found here.

2. If you believe your dog is showing signs of DCM already, please seek an appointment with a board-certified cardiologist to have an echocardiogram and taurine testing obtained simultaneously — do not change foods, do not supplement prior to the appointment.

3. If you receive taurine test results that come back as low, please seek an appointment with a board certified cardiologist to have an echocardiogram performed to determine if your pet needs cardiac medications and the appropriate supplements to be used (DO NOT SUPPLEMENT OR CHANGE FOODS UNTIL YOU HAVE THE CARDIOLOGY EVALUATION COMPLETED).

If you live in close to UC Davis, we can arrange research-funded cardiology evaluations for your dog if you contact at this email address.

4. If you receive cardiologist-confirmed DCM results, please take an image of the food bag, ingredient list and lot number. Please also request a copy of the images from the echocardiogram from your cardiologist (ensure that you have full DICOM image copies on a CD). Please download and complete the full diet history form found at this link.

Please email the image of food bag, a three-generation pedigree, diet history form, copies of the taurine level results and medical record to this email address. A member of our laboratory team will contact you to discuss our thoughts and possibly request additional information, food samples or blood samples for further testing.

Stern wants to get to the bottom of this issue as fast and as medically appropriately as possible. He hopes to publish his initial findings soon and offer scientifically based guidelines for Golden parents regarding diet and DCM. If you’re interested in published research on taurine deficiency and canine DCM, Stern also created a collection of files you can download at this link.

A Particular Brand of Grain-Free Kibble Is Implicated in Some Cases of Diet-Related DCM in Goldens
Although Stern doesn’t discuss specific diets in his letter linked above, according to Dr. Janet Olson of Veterinary Cardiology Specialists:

” … [T]he majority of cases [of taurine deficiency-related DCM in Golden Retrievers] they [Stern and his team] are seeing at UC-Davis are from grain free diets that are high in legumes, like ACANA pork and squash [kibble].”7

Other sources, including a Golden Retriever owner in Mountain View, CA who contacted us, also mention the same food — ACANA Pork and Squash Singles Formula limited ingredient kibble made by Champion Petfoods. According to my Mountain View source, Dr. Stern has been following a group of Goldens with DCM who had been eating the ACANA formula, and a year later, after changes to their diet, taurine supplementation and in some cases, the use of heart medications, all 20+ dogs either fully or significantly recovered.

Consumers who’ve contacted Champion about the issue receive a response stating that taurine isn’t an essential amino acid for dogs, and ACANA and ORIJEN diets are formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for all life stages. (Since taurine isn’t considered an essential amino acid for dogs, AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles establish no minimum requirement for taurine.)

Champion acknowledges that a taurine deficiency may contribute to the incidence of DCM in genetically susceptible dogs, but states their diets aren’t formulated for dogs with “special needs.”

Are All the Starchy Ingredients in Grain-Free Kibble to Blame?
Since grain-free dry dog food is a relatively new concept, it’s quite possible there’s something about the high-starch (carb) content in these diets that depletes taurine levels and/or makes the taurine less bioavailable. The problem might be related to a chemical reaction (called the Maillard reaction) between taurine and a carbohydrate during the extrusion process that depletes the digestible taurine level in the food.

And while legumes are being singled out as the potential problematic ingredient, grain-free kibble is often higher in both whole carbohydrates and purified starches (e.g., pea starch, potato starch and tapioca starch) than grain-based dry dog food. The higher the starch level in any pet food, the less protein is included.

In a study published in 1996 on the effect of high heat processing of cat food on taurine availability, the researchers noted, “These results suggest that Maillard reaction products promote an enteric flora that favors degradation of taurine and decreases recycling of taurine by the enterohepatic route.”8

Said another way: The byproducts of the chemical reaction between amino acids and sugars (carbs) in dry cat food alter the microbiome (gut bacteria), causing degradation of the taurine in the food, reducing its availability to the cat, and also preventing the taurine from being efficiently recycled by the cat’s body.

An earlier study published in 1990 that looked at taurine levels in a commercial diet that was fed heat-processed to some cats and frozen-preserved to others drew the same conclusion. The researchers stated ” … processing affects the digestive and/or absorptive process in a manner that increases the catabolism of taurine by gastrointestinal microorganisms.”9

Other Factors That Influence the Taurine Content of Pet Food/Feed
A 2003 study published in the Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition looked at taurine concentrations in the ingredients often used in both home prepared and commercial pet diets, as well as how cooking influences taurine content.10

The researchers reported that animal muscle tissue, especially marine animals, contains high levels of taurine, whereas plant-based ingredients contained either low or undetectable amounts. Also, the amount of taurine that remains after cooking is somewhat dependent on the method of food preparation. When an ingredient was cooked in water (e.g., boiling or basting), more taurine was lost unless the water used to cook the food was included with the meal.

Food preparation that minimized water loss (e.g., baking or frying) retained more of the taurine, however, it’s important to note that heat processing in any form destroys anywhere from 50 to 100 percent of taurine present in raw food. In addition, extended periods of storage of processed pet foods, and freezing, thawing and grinding of raw pet food also depletes taurine content.11

Another UC-Davis study published in 2016 evaluated the taurine status of large breed dogs fed low-protein diets (lamb and rice formulas), since they are now known to be at increased risk for taurine deficiency-related DCM.12 The researchers specifically looked at the ingredients rice bran and beet pulp used in many of these diets, and determined that while rice bran didn’t seem to be a primary cause of taurine deficiency, beet pulp may be a culprit.

Both rice bran and beet pulp bind bile acids (bile acids should be recycled, which effectively recycles taurine) in the small intestine, and increase excretion (which is undesirable) because it depletes taurine by interfering with the enterohepatic recycling of taurine-conjugated bile salts and lowers total body taurine levels.

Grain-free/”low-protein” commercial diets are very high in carbohydrates, which displace amino acids. They also contain anti-nutrients (e.g., saponins, trypsin inhibitors, phytates and lectins) that may interfere with taurine absorption. When you add in the high-heat processing used to manufacture kibble, it’s hardly surprising these diets aren’t an adequate source of taurine for many dogs.

How You Can Protect Your Dog
Those of us who are passionate about animal nutrition have been having a painful awakening for some time now about just how nutrient-deficient many dogs and cats are today. The taurine-DCM issue in dogs is yet another example that animals need much higher levels of bioavailable amino acids from a variety of sources than most are consuming.

Unfortunately, some processed pet food advocates are using the link between grain-free dog foods and DCM to try to push pet parents back in the direction of grain-based diets. Don’t be fooled. The problem with grain-free formulas isn’t the lack of grains! It’s the high level of starchy carbohydrates coupled with the extreme high-heat processing methods used to produce these diets.

Until we have much more information on the subject, my current recommendation is to supplement all dogs with high-taurine foods, no matter what type of diet they’re eating. An easy way to do this is to simply mix a can of sardines into your pet’s meal once a week. You can also find the taurine content of many other foods on page two of this study and also in this Raw Feeding Community article.

If you have a breed or breed mix known to be susceptible to DCM (e.g., Golden Retriever, Doberman Pinscher, Cocker Spaniel, Boxer, Great Dane, Scottish Deerhound, Irish Wolfhound, Saint Bernard, Afghan Hound, Dalmatian, Portuguese Water dog, Old English Sheepdog, Newfoundland), especially if you’ve been feeding grain-free kibble, or if for some other reason you’re concerned about your dog’s heart health, I recommend following Dr. Joshua Stern’s four-step process outlined above, starting with a visit to your veterinarian.

[Katie K]

I’ve heard about this twice within the past week and tried researching it. It sounds like the majority of people in this thread read the same article that I did. To me, it was very unclear. What makes them Think certain foods are causing this? Is it simply because the number of dogs with heart problems have gone up and more and more people are feeding their dogs grain-free? I would think that they would want something more conclusive before spreading this belief. What if a new vaccine is causing it? Or something environmental? Or it could be genetic, with the amounts of dogs in puppy mills. And the way it talks about taurine… A lot of dogs with a heart disease are deficient in taurine. But then again, a lot of them aren’t…?
My dog does have sensitive skin. He has allergies to some things. I feed him grain-free. He does great with the food I have him on. Is he allergic to grain? I don’t know. I do know that when his skin is irritated, he chews. When he chews, moisture gets into his skin and yeast starts to build up. Grain feeds the yeast and causes it to spread. A grain-free food won’t worsen the problem. If you feed a grain-free food with the right balance/amounts of probiotics, it actually fights the yeast. If, for some reason, his food were to cause a taurine deficiency, I would rather give him a supplement than switch him to a food that causes him to be itchy all the time.
This article isn’t just recommending to stay away from grain-free foods. It also says that “boutique” foods can cause heart problems. That term, “boutique foods” is kind of vague, no? So grain-free foods, “boutique” foods, and a raw diet.. According to this article, they’re all no good. Well, what does that leave us with? Hills Science Diet? This article talks about a vet who is researching this whole grain-free causing heart problems. Morris Animal Foundation is funding his research. Who started this foundation? The same person who started Hills Science Diet. What kind of food are vets recommending we switch our dogs to? Hills Science Diet.
Vets have been recommending and selling this food for decades. The more they sell, the more perks they get from the company. This food is so unhealthy but was very popular for a very long time because people trusted their vets. Now that we have the internet, more and more pet owners are educating themselves and making informed decisions on what to give their dog. I am sure Hill’s sales have dropped dramatically. It sounds to me that they are desperate to get back on top.
In my opinion, if your dog is doing well with the food s/he is eating, don’t change their diet. ESPECIALLY to Hill’s Science Diet. If they ever have proof to back this theory, of course I will take it seriously. But for now, it seems to me that they’re trying to take advantage of our love for our dogs to line their pockets.