[Hound Dog Mom]

What is your budget? Unfortunately – while healthier, as Patty pointed out – most dry food alternatives (dehydrated, freeze-dried, canned and raw) are much more expensive than dry dog food. If it’s not possible to feed an entirely raw, dehydrated, freeze-dried or canned diet you can “top” the kibble with these foods or alternate (i.e. raw for breakfast and dry for dinner). Healthy leftovers like lean meat, steamed veggies, eggs or plain yogurt are also a cheap way to dress up kibble and boost the species-appropriateness – just keep the addition of unbalanced toppers to 20% or less of the meal. Unfortunately dehydrated, freeze-dried and commercial raw foods would probably be off the table for someone on a budget but there are some quality budget friendly canned foods. Walmart sells a food called Pure Balance which is rated 5 stars and costs $1 per can, Tractor Supply sells a food called 4Health which is rated 4.5 stars and costs $0.99 per can and Costco sells a canned food called Kirkland Cuts & Gravy which costs $0.79 per can. Home cooked and homemade raw can be done fairly cheaply – but homemade diets do take some research. I agree with Patty about the lack of dental benefits with dry food as well – it’s just a myth that dry food cleans the teeth. The only way to assure dental health is to brush your dog’s teeth regularly or have regular dental cleanings at your vet. Raw bones can aid in dental health to a certain degree, but they’re no substitution for teeth brushing.

[FreeholdHound]

Since I’m limited on my kibble options for Harry but I do want to rotate his diet (using Natures Logic & raw at this point) I ordered some of the See Spot Live Longer premix. I like that I can control the protein & avoid chicken/turkey. I looked into the Urban Wolf and HK Preference but both contain sweet potato. Any other suggestions for adding variety?
Jeanne

[sparkles1962]

I have a Jack Russell that I have had the same issues as the Mini-Pin. Had bladder issues years ago, and vet put her on urninary so. For years was throwing up on the food, not an issue for the vet. Then last year started with the pancreatitis. We have been working with a holistic vet, acupuncture, and herbal/homeopathic remedies. Amazing results. But, still working on it. I am now making her dog food. That really helps. I used Darwins raw food/chicken and duck. The only issue I had with that is the small bones, she was throwing those up and it was too costly.

My dog has a duality of chronic inflammatory pancreatitis that is creating damp phlegm in her kidneys and hence bladder stone issues. This is what the holistic vet is working on. It surprises me, that the regular vets don’t even know this. However, I am looking for a good nutritionist vet, for making the appropriate raw diet myself. There is someone online, that you can pay for this service (but I’m a little leary to give my personal info online)! Here is the information I found online, if you are interested. She had some good things to say, such as me feeding a natural diet that included sweet potato is not good for my dog because—if the stones she is forming are calcium oxalate, you should not be feeding sweet potatoes due to their content of oxalic acid. It is also vitally important for kidney health to have sufficient calcium in the diet to 1. meet the dog’s needs and 2. bind excess phosphorus, and in typical, supplemented diets this is usually severely deficient.
Looking online at dog diets with pancreatitis….is overwhelming!!!
— Sabine Contreras
Canine Care & Nutrition Consultant
Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines
BetterDogCare.com – DogFoodProject.com

[pugmomsandy]

I bought Epigen from the Wysong website. I use various canned foods as toppers. As far as foods for weight loss goes, I’ve never fed low fat, just normal. I have pugs so they gain weight easily and I get obese fosters too but they still lose weight on regular (5 star grain free) kibble and regular fat canned foods and even home made raw food in which I leave the skin on.

Also I wanted to point out (if you didn’t know yet) about the “body condition score”. You should take this into account as well, not just weight alone. That being said, my pugs are heavy but not fat. They are very strong and muscular. They look like some of my other fosters that weigh 17-20 lbs. They gained weight when I started feeding them higher protein kibble and raw food.

This one is 23 lbs but does not need a diet! For me, I only go by body condition. And he’s been wearing that harness for a couple years whether he was 18 or 23. That photo was last year so he does have new harnesses!

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_2697640x479_zpsbe52d943.jpg

[julez4you]

Help! My 4 month old GD pup is off to a bit of a rocky health start and I need some advice. When I brought him home from the breeder he had just finished his 1course of antibiotic from a case of puppy acne. He was being fed Purina- so my 1st objective was to get him switched over to a better food- but given my experience with Danes and their sometimes sensitive tummies- I played it safe and switched him to GO! which has acceptable calcium levels but is not very high in protein.

About 1 week after he came home he had a horrible episode of blood in his stool- so vet put him on Metronidazole and bland diet while tests came back. Turns out he had worms (dont recall which one but it was long and white when it came out in stool- so she treated him with dewormer.)

During this this time I was also trying to transition him to a higher protein food slowly and tried adding in HK Love or high meat cans. Both ended up producing loose stools even in small quantities, so I decided to try and do a slow switch to a higher protein kibble such as Canine Caviar. After 2days of adding in only a little bit of the new kibble (1/4 of overall quantity) it was like a water hose. At first I thought maybe it was just something in the formula- so I tried NV LID Turkey (again- only tiny amount) and he had nonstop diarrhea that brought us back to the vet and once again, back on Metronidazole and bland diet.

At this point I’m petrified to try anything new in his diet. He’s currently on straight GO! Duck formula and daily probiotic and enzymes. I eventually want to switch him to raw- but with my older dog 100% raw fed, the expense of having a growing Dane pup on raw too is a bit much.

2 weeks ago, he also broke out with a bad skin infection around his genitals- red, pussy, scabby bumps which I’m sure are the end result of his multiple immune suppressant treatments- and fearful at the thought of yet another antibiotic treatment, I’m trying to treat with medicated shampoo at the moment.

I also want to help boost his immune and digestive health more and have a great organic canine wellness blend from a local herbalist, but since I noticed that one of its benefits is joint/ mobility and it has horsetail and oat straw in it- now I’m wondering if I need to be concerned about added calcium this my be contributing? Any thoughts on whether or not I should continue giving it to him?

Also- if you have any tips on diet or skin problems- I’m all ears. I’m trying to do the best for him but seems that for every good intended actin I try to take- I just end up causing him more problems. 🙁

And at 4 months he still hasn’t had his 3rd distemper or rabbies vac because he’s had something chronically going on since.

Please help! Julie and Bentley

[Hound Dog Mom]

You actually don’t want to feed vegetables raw. Dogs can’t digest the cellulose in vegetables very efficiently and for this reason they should be cooked and pureed to in a sense “pre-digest” them prior to feeding. The meat, bones and organs are what you would feed raw with a raw diet but if you’re not comfortable with feeding raw meat that’s certainly understandable. A cooked homemade diet is still much healthier than commercial pet food. My favorite books of those Sandy mentioned is “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” – while this is more aimed at raw feeders there are many principals discussed that are common to both raw and home cooked diets. The recipes could also easily be converted to cooked by omitting the bone-in meat, adding boneless meat and supplementing with 800 – 1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat fed. My favorite pre-mixes are See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix and Urban Wolf. BTW – GOOD choice on going homemade. As Sandy said, it’s not something to be taken lightly but if you do your research and properly prepare the meals you will be setting your dog up for a long and healthy life! 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

For easy homemade, use a premix like Urban Wolf, Grandma Lucys, The Honest Kitchen, and there’s another one by Steve Brown – can’t remember what that one is called. All you add is meat and some oil.

For some recipes, get “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr Karen Becker/Beth Taylor or Steve Brown’s “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet”. “Real Food…” has cooked and raw recipes and a vitamin mix recipe and when made to recipe, it exceeds AAFCO/NRC guidelines.

For something simple, there’s http://homemadedogfood.com/easy-cooked-dog-food-recipe/ It uses a vitamin/mineral supplement and a fat supplement. Although I wouldn’t feed this single recipe forever. I’d give some variety.

You don’t have to stick to one product or recipe long term either. Try Urban Wolf and some other brands for variety.

Homemade food cannot be taken lightly. Although it’s the best, without proper vits/minerals/EFA’s, a poorly balanced homemade diet can be harmful. Do alot of research. I would say use some of HoundDogMom’s raw recipes, but since your’re a little squeamish of raw…that probably wouldn’t work out! She ran her recipe through a nutrient analysis and it is complete and balanced.

When I started raw, I used “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats”. And I have dog food grinding parties at my house!

[sfranklin]

I am trying to figure out where to start with the whole homemade food idea. My dogs itch non-stop and I really believe it is from their commercial dog food. Any suggestions on supplements to make sure I have a balanced diet? I saw on Amazon something called Wizpet dog food supplement, I haven’t been able to find anything about it. If anyone could point me in the right direction as to where I can find out more information on supplements that would be wonderful. I am leaning towards the cooked dog food, my dogs now love all raw veggies and fruit (the ones they are allowed to have) so that I don’t have a problem with, I just don’t know if I can do the raw food personally, I may be a little squeamish. Could I do cooked (rare) protein and then raw everything else? I have been reading so much on here I think I am in information overload and am lost as to where to start. Thanks for your time!

[aimee]

I recently found a reference regarding the digestion of cassava starch ( tapioca) which was done in the dog. In an uncooked state (raw) 57.6% is digested before reaching the colon. In the cooked state ( as would be found in kibble) 97.4% of the cassava starch is digested before reaching the colon.

Recueil de Medecine Veterinaire (Mai-Jun 1998)
Foecal and ileal digestibility of diets rich in wheat or tapioca starch in the dog.
Wolter, R. (Ecole Nationale Veterinaire d’Alfort, Maisons Alfort (France). Unite Alimentation Nutrition); Pereira do Socorro, E.; Houdre, C.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Switch the dog to a species-appropriate, low carbohydrate diet. A raw, home cooked, dehydrated or canned diet free of any grains or starches is ideal. If you must feed kibble look for a high protein (>30%) grain-free/white potato free kibble. If kibble is necessary, I think somebodysme made a good suggestion with Nature’s Variety Instinct.

I would also highly recommend starting the dog on a high quality, multi-strain probiotic supplement and an enzyme supplement. Probiotics are “friendly” bacteria that will help to get the body’s microflora back in balance (a yeast infection is an imbalance of microflora). Enzymes will help to rid the body of toxins that can contribute to yeast overgrowth and help the dog to more efficiently digest the food.

Yeast infections can also be caused by deficient levels of IgA and German Shepherds are prone to IgA deficiencies. If there is an IgA deficiency the probiotics and enzymes should help and you may also wish to consider an immunoglobulin supplement (such as IgG 2000 DF or colostrum) and coconut oil (the lauric acid in coconut oil is beneficial to immune function). You vet could test for an IgA deficiency.

You should also regularly disinfect the parts of his body that are yeasty. You can use a solution containing 1 gallon water, 1 C. hydrogen peroxide and 1 C. white vinegar. You can also bathe him using an herbal shampoo (such as tea tree) – avoid oatmeal shampoos as oatmeal feeds the yeast.

Good luck! 🙂

[somebodysme]

I’m in the same boat so maybe someone will pipe in. A light bulb finally came on with my dog. What I thought was all caused by food allergies are partly allergies and partly yeast. When I get her on a food that she’s not allergic to, the rash on her back clears right up but her feet flare up. The feet are yeast and the back rash is food allergies. Or at least this seems to be what we are figuring out. On a low carb food such as Nature’s Variety, the feet heal but her back flares. On an brand new meat such as lamb and/or rabbit, the back heals right up but the feet flare because the only food I tried was too high in carbs. SO now I will try lamb Nature’s Variety but the problem is that it’s not readily available and she has some stool issues with NV.

So if yeast is your only issue, I’d suggest giving Nature’s Variety LID a try. Of course, most people will suggest you need a raw or cooked diet. I haven’t crossed that bridge just yet…HA!

[shelties mom]

This sound to be a yeast problem, no. 1 thing to do is to address the diet, preferrably an anti-inflammatory raw diet with no grains. Adding a probiotic supplement will help since antibiotics destroy all good along with the bad bacteria, so these drugs often make a bad situation worse.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/03/eating-these-foods-can-make-your-dog-itch-like-crazy.aspx

Be sure not to over-vaccinate or over-medicate.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/08/17/stop-using-pet-steroids-until-you-read-these-disturbing-truths.aspx
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/12/23/environmental-allergies-and-your-pet.aspx

Use natural flea control products:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/03/31/dangers-of-flea-and-tick-problems.aspx

Have you tried this product for his ears?

[Melissaandcrew]

I have a Doberman with horrible stomach issues. Her culprit seems to be higher fiber and rice. After dealing with it for years(meds, restricted diets etc) her diarrhea and weight loss resolved on Abady granular, Natures Variety raw and Victor Grain free Ultra Pro.

[rileys mom]

I currently feed my Sheltie puppy (Riley) Earthborn Holistic Grain Free – Meadow Feast. I am very happy with the food but I have been reading a lot about the benefits of a raw diet. I can’t afford to have him on a completely raw diet, but I would like to add some raw food to his kibble. I have been looking at Primal and Nutrisca freeze dried raw food. Would it benefit Riley to have a little bit of raw added to his kibble?

If I do add raw how much of his kibble should I replace? I am currently feeding him 1 cup a day split into 3 meals. He is about 10lbs and 6 months.

Thanks

[kaoconnell]

My 9 1/2 yr old irish wolfhound mix was diagnosed with IBD after numerous tests and a endoscopy 1 week ago. Just got the results back and they put him on prednisolone. He is also on Cipro, Sucralfate, pepcid ac tramadol and metoclopramide. He is not eating very well. I have tried many different canned foods (evo..wellness ..prescription gi ones from the vet) but he is picky also. I have also done home cooked and raw. The vet wants his belly to heal up before we do a allergy blood test to see if that is the cause. Im at my wits end trying to get him to eat.. any ideas?? He usually weighs 114.. last vet visit..102. So I’d like to get his weight up also.

[jamie_aa]

Hey I have a question for HDM

I wanted to see if you knew anything about the calcium levels in the Nature’s Variety Raw Frozen Diets. My local pet store started caring this and i wasn’t sure if the calcium level would be ok for my Saint Bernard puppy? I was originally just going to buy the BARF Raw dog food online and have it shipped but I would rather go get the food myself.

[beaglemom]

Hi everyone… one of my pups has fallen into the “late summer itchies” stage and I’m at a complete loss for what to do for her because nothing works. Her only symptom is paw licking/chewing – intermittently. She’ll go for hours seemingly fine and then have a serious itchy paw attack, primarily the front paws. Her ears seem fine, and though she occasionally scratches at them I’d say it’s 10% or less of the time. She’s been getting us up in the morning… will sleep until ~4-5 am and then it’s up chewing the paws.

What does this sound like? She eats an incredibly varied diet, primarily raw so food allergy is last on my list of suspicions… but I can’t rule it out I guess. Stools have been perfect though. We’ve tried rinsing off her feet every time she comes in from outside in either water/baking soda, water/iodine, and recently I picked up some Epsom salt but I’m not even sure it’s worth trying. The foot rinsing does not seem to have an effect, though. I’ve also been giving her half a Benedryl (12.5 mg) OR half of a Zyrtec (5 mg) with meals but neither seems to offer her any relief.

Any input or suggestions are greatly appreciated. It may come down to allergy/blood tests at the vet but they’re my last resort just because of the money… however, I hate to see her suffer like this. If it is a seasonal thing, we’re still at least a month away from first frost. Thanks in advance.

[pugmomsandy]

“What are good options to implement (such as veggies and fruits)?”

Toppers can be scrambled egg, sardines, raw meat, canned food, whatever you like it to be but the general rule is to not use more than 20% as a topper and try to use species appropriate toppers. As for veggies or fruit, use these in small amounts as dogs don’t need too much of them but they do contain nutrients and antioxidants, etc. Fruit has a lot of sugar so I don’t use much. When I make a homemade batch of food I don’t use more than 5% fruits, and 20% veggies. And actually my last batch of food, I didn’t put in any veg/fruit.

“What is the ratios?”

When talking about ratios, a couple things come to mind. First, the calcium to phosphorus ratio is important for large breed puppies. This affects their bone growth. Secondly, the prey model diet ratio of 80/10/10 of meat/bone/organs. Some recipe books have varying ratios.

“Generally how many times a day do people feed their kids?”

I feed twice a day, occasionally once a day. Some will fast their dogs one day a week.

“Are dairy products like cheese bad for dogs?”

It depends. If your dog is lactose intolerant, then yes. If it’s cheese from a cow that had antibiotics and growth hormones, yes it’s bad. I suggest a goat product like goat milk or goat milk kefir or cow product that came from free range cows that did not receive antibiotics or growth hormones. Products like full fat, no artificial sweeteners or colors yogurt has live cultures of beneficial organisms so it can help some dogs with digestive problems. Cottage cheese can be a good source of protein and is low in lactose (I think).

“What is the advantages of “bully bones/or marrow bones” vs rawhide bones?”

Rawhides are hard to digest and can cause blockages and the way they are processed can be problematic. Sometimes chemicals are used. And I think many of them come from China. Marrow bones aren’t processed and once the marrow has been taken care of, you can reuse the bone by stuffing it with something else and freezing it and giving it as a treat. Bully sticks can cause blockages too if they are gulped down. I usually take them away when they get small but gnawing on them helps clean the teeth. Cow hoof is another item that my dogs like to gnaw on.

[AJs4leggedkidsx4]

Hello!

I have read tons of your topics and responses. I must say that I have seen the light! My “Kids” are my world and I def have been doing them an injustice!

I hear about food fillers/kibble toppers I need more information.

What are good options to implement (such as veggies and fruits)?

What is the ratios?

Generally how many times a day do people feed their kids? (I feed mine a breakfast snack, but they do not eat dinner until I do in the afternoons) I should note that I have 4 kids, corgi/blue heeler/, TWIN German shepherd/pitbull mix and a applehead Chihuahua. The Chihuahua is on a calorie controlled diet. My kids are active and lean. I feed them 2 to 2 1/2 cups at meal time.

Are dairy products like cheese bad for dogs?

What is the advantages of “bully bones/or marrow bones” vs rawhide bones?

I am sure that I’ll more questions, but right now I need to get the basics down of a healthy diet.

Thank you all for your help!

AJ

[JLezinsky]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,

We have been wanting to switch our pup to a raw food diet for a while now. We have been doing tons of reading on this forum and research and decided to start with a pre-made raw mix while we figured out how to add more from scratch.

Last weekend at our local pet store the owners of Sirius Raw Dog Food (a small company from Ruby, NY) were out front talking about their product. I was wondering if anyone has heard or more importantly used their food? We decided to give it a try and start or 8 month old Catahoula (40 lbs) on it. We switched her cold turkey without any problem, in fact she went crazy for it. However, the more I read on this form the more excited I get about making good food for her, but at the same time the more overwhelming this starts to seem. Our biggest concern right now is that she is getting the proper nutrition and the correct amounts of food. Sirius told us that she will be good with 2% her body weight, about 1lb a day. And that everything she needs is in the food. We started giving her ½ lb twice a day. It has only been a few days and it is hard to tell if she’s hungry or just wants more because it is so good. Yesterday we increased her feeding to ¾ lb twice a day. Since she is only 8 months should she be giving her more than 2-3%? Sirius told us that she was considered an adolescent. I just want to get your opinion.

Also, should we be using any additional supplements while we stay on the Sirius pre-made mix? Should we be concerned about the calcium while on this?

I figured this was the best place to get answers. I appreciate any help you can give us.

Thanks,
Jon

There is not a lot of information on their site so I attached the nutritional info. that they had emailed to me. They have a few blends, a chicken, a beef, a turkey.

beef blend….Ingredients: Beef, Chicken Bones, Beef Heart, Beef Liver, Sweet Potato, Carrots, Zucchini, Romaine Lettuce, Spinach, Cilantro, Parsley, Ginger Root, Garlic
Guaranteed analysis: crude protein, min 16.00%; crude fat, min 14.00%, crude fiber, max 00.30%; moisture, max 64.00%

http://www.siriusrawdogfood.com

[bkagel]

Hi all. I have been using dog food advisor for quite some time. Here’s the deal. I have an 8 year old pap and I think she has ibs. She’s sensitive when it comes to grains and overly processed foods. The last dry food she was on was Merrick’s grain free buffalo. She was doing okay on that kibble but she get’s seasonal allergies. She was one yeasty dog! I slowly took her off the Merrick and put her back on her raw food diet. With a lot of baths, and her adjustment to her old raw food diet I thought we were good to go. Unfortunately she started having serious diarrhea, so she just ate cooked chicken with pro- biotics from Nature’s Farmacy. I cooked her a low residue food and then I started adding 1 tablespoon of acana per meal thinking I could switch her to acana. No way. I thought I was going to pass out from her second poop. Talk about foul smelling!!

She does well with a protein ratio of 28-32% and a carb ratio the same or lower level. I really liked brother’s complete, but realistically, I can’t afford it. I have two fur babies and while they are small I don’t know if I could afford them. At least with a 50 lb bag of Acana, I would be set for a good 4-5 months.

This is what I’ve tried over the years that hasn’t worked or I didn’t like:
back to basics-diarrhea city too much protein
Evo, Innova, California Naturals-she didn’t do so well on those as a puppy. Ibs flare ups etc.

Having written all of that, is there some grain free, potato free (or at least low potato) food I can get my dogs that I can get a sample packet(s) I can afford. It used to be that the stores would give you a sample packet. Pet people charged me $10.00 for a sample packet.

I live in Columbus Ohio. I usually go to Petco or Pet People because they tend to have the better foods in stock.
Please tell me there is help for this situation. She’s on the prescribed low resolution and she’s taking “their” probiotics. It’s only a matter of time 2-3 days until she’ll be back to normal. I have NO clue what to give her that I can afford for both of them.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Weight loss is based on calories in and calories out – your dog has to create an energy deficit in order to lose weight (in other words, the dog needs to burn more calories than it’s consuming). Weight loss can be achieved on any food as long as the portion size is controlled appropriately – although it’s definitely easier on foods that are less calorically-dense. Personally, if I had a dog with weight issues I would definitely avoid kibble. Kibble is very low in moisture and for this reason much more calorically dense than higher moisture foods (raw, canned, dehydrated). To give you an idea – a large can of food (~13 oz.) will contain roughly the same number of calories as an 8 oz. cup of dry kibble. Dehydrated foods contain roughly the same amount of calories per cup as a quality kibble (sometimes slightly more), but they are re-hydrated with – usually – 1 part food to 1.5 parts water which results in about 2 1/2 C. of food for roughly the same amount of calories as 1 C. of kibble. A raw diet formulated with lean meat will be very low in calories – generally only 250 – 300 per cup of food. If you do decide to go with a kibble, my recommendations would be Annamaet Lean, Wellness CORE Reduced Fat or Acana Light & Fit. Be sure to reduce portion sizes accordingly.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[somebodysme]

OH yes, sounds just exactly like my dog with allergies too. She’s a “lab mix”…AKA no one knows!

The vet did the same thing. What I did was go with a limited ingredient diet. I have her on Nature’s Variety LID Turkey which is doing an adequate job of keeping it under control. Remember that everything he consumes can contribute, not just their dog food. Treats and rawhide etc. even vitamins and supplements. People food…it can all cause problems.

Really the antiboitics help heal it up but then it just will come right back because they are killing the dog’s immune system.

I chose the NV food because it had the least amount of ingredients and not potatoes of any kind. I don’t even want her on sweet potatoes either.

Does he stink like strong cheese? If so that is yeast too so you don’t want a food with too many carbs or it will get worse. You’d also want to give a probiotic.

Just out of curiosity, what are you feeding him now?

[Bill Rogan]

Hello!!! Beagleowner? Hope you feel better than before because your dog is gradually progressed.

You should bring diversification in you dog food menu. You should ensure that the diet you feed meets your dog’s requirements. It’s important that the diet you feed your dog is “complete and balanced,” meaning it meets all of your dog’s nutritional needs. It is not important, however, that every meal would be completed and balanced, unless you feed the same meal every day with little or no variation.

Following are the guidelines for feeding a raw or cooked homemade diet to get a healthy dog. No single type of food, such as chicken, should ever make up more than half the diet.

You should keep the followings in your consideration while cooking your dog food. Proper balanced dog food includes:

Meat and other Animal Products:

Raw meaty bones (optional)
Boneless meat
Fish
Organs
Eggs
Dairy

Fruits and Vegetables:

Starchy vegetables
Leafy green and other non-starchy vegetables
Fruits
Grains

Supplements:

Calcium
Oils
Fish oil
Cod liver oil
Plant Oils

Other Vitamins and Minerals:

Vitamin E
Iodine
Green blends

Hopefully you be benefited. Best of luck of you with your beloved dog.

[dogmom2]

Patty, I was thinking about the age factor in the coarseness of his outer coat. And it has been almost 2 years since our “food epiphany” and their introduction to raw, and the like. (they were on innova before..with canned innova.). This last year has been the best coat Hank has ever had, and I attribute it to the change in diet to better more natural foods.
He really is pretty healthy, and happy overall. It has just been a crazy amount of hair on the lawn after evening brushing and all over the house. We vacuum every day as it is, but holy moly!!!

Hdm….you are right. I will watch and wait before I panic!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by dogmom2.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi beagleowner –

I’m glad to hear that Henry is having some progress. 🙂

As far as the diet goes, there are a few recommendations that I would make. First, I would recommend rotating through a variety of proteins rather than feeding just turkey. It would probably be a good idea to work in a red meat protein source occasionally or if you continue to feed predominantly poultry add 1 tbs. ground flax or 1 tsp. flax oil per pound of meat to help balance the fats. The ratio of protein to vegetables doesn’t have to be 2 to 1 – I personally feed much more protein and much less vegetables than that, about 85% – 90% meat/bone/organ to 10% – 15% plant ingredients (vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc.). It’s fine to feed the amount of vegetables that you’re feeding though – anywhere from 50:50 to 90:10 meat to vegetables is okay although I recommend keeping towards the higher end of the meat ratio. Based on what you’re feeding I think it would make much more sense to omit the vitamin a, d and e and add a multivitamin – any one a day type multi formulated for humans with 10% or less DV calcium would be fine, I would give a dog his size one half the recommended human dosage per day. It is possible to balance the diet with whole foods alone but it’s a lot trickier – I do this with my dogs’ recipes which are posted in the raw menu thread. How much meat are you using per 3 eggshells? You want to be providing between 800 and 1,000 mg. calcium per pound of boneless muscle meat to balance the calcium to phosphorus ratio. When using eggshell calcium you want to add about 1 tsp. finely ground eggshell per pound of meat. Why did your vet suggest a kidney formula and not suggest using the “dissolve” supplement that you were using previously? I’m not familiar with the dissolve supplement and don’t know what’s in it so I can’t offer any input but if it was working and it’s something your vet supports you may want to go back to it. I’ve heard good things about the use of turmeric (or curcumin) for dogs with lipomas – combining with bromelain can increase the effectiveness. I’ve also heard good things about IP-6 and Inositol for treating lipomas.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Tigerlily]

Well that is quite frustrating that I was given incorrect information.

I am quite familiar with standard poodles and all too aware and educated on the genetic predispositions in my breed. Also, in general, those of us who are knowledgeable and involved in the breed consider them to be a “medium to large breed” and we are careful to promote slow and steady growth to avoid orthopedic issues. I have always been careful to feed foods with moderate calcium levels to my puppies. That said, because poodles are closer to the “medium” end of the spectrum (or should be, in my opinion), I am sure that my precautions are just that – precautions.

I am not going to entirely rule out the two Acana formulas, but I am pretty happy with Dr. Tim’s at the moment so I may consider the grain inclusive version of Kinesis for the puppies. If puppy owners are reluctant to order online, I can suggest they feed Fromm Chicken a la Veg. Or, heck, maybe I’ll just raise the puppies on the Fromm. 🙂 A large percentage of my of my poodles’ diet is raw, but at this point I do plan to raise the litter on kibble.

On another note, does anyone know how to add a photo above my name?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom –

I must have somehow missed your previous posts, I just saw them today.

Because Dawson is getting the Ziwipeak for one meal a day I wouldn’t get overstressed about whether or not his raw meals are completely balanced – any minor deficiencies will likely be covered by the Ziwipeak. Your recipe looks really good! If you were to feed 1/4 tin of sardines per week, in addition to the cod liver oil, his DHA/EPA needs should be covered. If you can’t get him to eat fruits and vegetables this should be okay seeing as he is getting a green superfood supplement (just make sure to rotate ingredients often). You may, however, want to add an ingredient with some fiber for the meals where he’s not getting bone if he’s not eating fruits and veggies either – some flax meal would work and it would also have the added benefit of helping to balance the fats in his predominantly chicken diet. I would still include a small amount of organ meat in the diet even though he’s getting the glandular supplement. I would suggest about an ounce or an ounce and a half of liver every week and an ounce or an ounce and a half of kidney (or another organ, if you can get it). If you’re concerned about his weight and want to keep fat levels low 95% lean should be okay, I wouldn’t go any leaner than that though. You could also use heart and gizzard as part of his muscle meat component – very lean and also pretty cheap. The only other suggestion I would make is to incorporate some nuts or seeds occasionally (I like sprouted pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, chia or flax) and possibly a few canned oysters as well. The nuts/seeds will provide trace nutrients such as manganese and the oysters are rich in copper and zinc. You should also add a very small amount of salt. This aren’t additions that need to be made daily, but occasionally to help fill the gaps. Variety is key.

[DogFoodie]

You know, you’re making me think I need to check into another local source I have before I jump into Hare Today grinds. There’s a local butcher that has been in my town for years and years and I noticed a while back when I was poking around in the freezers at the pet store that they make their own “chunk” dog food. They don’t have a website, but here are some links I found online about them:

http://www.fluffydog.net/product.sc?productId=138

http://www.joeyspetoutfitters.com/News/tabid/67/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/446/New-JJ-Fuds-raw-diets.aspx

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by DogFoodie.

[beaglemom]

Hi again FreeholdHound!
Like you I’m not super impressed with his menu but feel the prices can’t be beat (plus no shipping). I started off with a box of the Chick/Turk/Lamb Medley since my dogs don’t have a lot of lamb in their diet but wish I hadn’t… I just wish he wouldn’t combine so many proteins in those medleys. I mean BeeTurDuckenLamb? A little overboard. But anyway, the veggies are ONLY collard greens… which is minimal compared to most other premade raws. Plus he does have whole ground chicken and whole ground duck by itself (no veggies). I don’t know. I’m going to try him again next month one more time (with some “simpler” items… no blends) just because like you, it would nice to have a local supplementary source for raw (no shipping cost is a huge plus). At this point I’m still thinking Darwin’s and Hare are going to remain my primary raw sources though.

[InkedMarie]

Betsy, it kind of depends what kind of raw you want to feed, prey model with just meat/bone or a barf type of diet. I have a group on fb that is strictly prey model. They know what variety I feed, while they don’t agree with it, they respect my choice.

Tracy may be right about the veggies; if I could afford to feed Boone just Hare stuff, I’d be curious to see if the paw licking stopped.

[gmcbogger38]

Ok, so I currently feed a prey model raw diet to my 3 dogs and they are doing great on it and their teeth are getting so clean it is amazing. Well, one of my dogs wouldn’t eat her raw and this went on for 3 days. I know I should have given her some more time and made her eat the raw, but I decided to just buy a small bag of Orijen kibble just so she would eat something. Of course, she ate the kibble no problem. I love feeding raw, but the fact is it is costing me more money right now because I don’t have a separate freezer to buy in bulk like I would need to to make it cheaper for 3 dogs. If I decided to put my dogs back on kibble and gave them a raw meaty bone 2-3 times per week or so, would that make me a terrible dog owner? lol. I want the benefit of cleaning their teeth, but I’m going broke because of it due to my current situation. I am also a full time college student and work a full time job, so I barely have time to go buy the food and then bag it all up for the week and a half that it lasts (that’s all I can fit in my freezer/fridge at the moment).

[jamie_aa]

HDM…

Ok i think now i am switching my food choice again… Please Help me! I was going to do a mix between petcurean and Fromm thinking it would be the best for my puppy, but again the more I read the more I am learning. You have so many to choose from on your list so I wanted to see what your top five choices might be? I will be adding 20% percent of my homemade raw diet to it a day. Again I will have a Saint Bernard 8 weeks old puppy and i just want her to have a great start on life. I just dont want to be spending a lot on a bag of dog food “Petcurean”, if there is an even better one out there that i could be giving her for the same price of even cheaper. I am willing to order the food online if i have to….

[Gmcwy]

I live in Wyoming and there are no holistic vets without driving 4 hours to Fort Collins, if there is one there. I had her on a Raw diet which she did fantastic on but I can’t feed her anything with hormones so it was horribly difficult to get enough wild game and free range without going broke. I think I’m going to try the Avoderm Lamb and rice, it has a 4.5 rating on here and is designed for sensitive stomachs. And I have learned the importance of finding a high quality breeder sigh…

[EHubbman]

Also not Patty, but along with what Marie was saying, it also works well to keep your dog’s gut active and able to adjust to changes more, is something I’ve found in the past.
No food is ever complete, so rotating also helps to balance a diet, and keep it interesting for your pups. (I wouldn’t like eating the same thing every day for my entire life, I know that!)

Marie/anyone- You say you rotate with pre-made raw and grinds; do you keep a certain amount of time between kibble/raw? I’ve been reading a few things that you need to wait XX hours between kibble/raw because kibble slows the gut down, which can let bad bacteria from the raw cultivate in the gut. Then others say that it doesn’t matter so much. Your thoughts?

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by EHubbman.

[beaglemom]

SandyandMila/HDM… haha I just had to comment on this (though I know it was awhile ago). HDM you must never have joined the “rawfeeding” yahoo group! They are “interesting” to say the least… I definitely come here first but here’s the lessons this list wants you to believe: dogs need zero supplements, ever; all dogs need to eat is meat meat meat (and a little bone and a little organs); bones don’t clean teeth, tearing at meat chunks does; necks of any sort have no place in the diet unless attached to the animal; ground meat is evil; veggies and fruits are evil; tripe is useless. LOL. I will join the “thank goodness i found this site” crowd and also to tie in to the topic of this thread, I am expecting my first Hare Today order on Wednesday and can’t wait!!! (And it includes duck necks!!!) 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

I vaccinate my dogs as puppies (8 weeks, 12 weeks and 16 weeks) with the core vaccines. I’ll then get another booster for the core vaccines one year after the final series of puppy boosters. I do not vaccine again after this (aside from rabies every three years which is required by law). I never vaccinate for non-core vaccines such as lyme, bordetella, etc. It’s known that these core vaccines provide immunity much longer than a year and even much longer than the three year intervals that some vets are starting to recommend. Through challenge it has been proven that most of these core vaccines provide immunity for at least 5 to 7 years and it is believed that they may even provide lifetime immunity. Rather than re-vaccinating yearly (or even every three years) it’s much smarter to have a titer – a blood test which measures the dog’s immunity. If the titer shows that your dog is immune there’s no reason to re-vaccinate – re-vaccinating provides no benefit (or increased immunity) it only puts your dog at risk for the negative side affects that may be caused by vaccines. I would highly recommend checking out this series of videos in which Dr. Becker interviews Dr. Ronald Schultz. Dr. Schultz is an immunology specialist in the Department of Pathobiological Sciences at the School of Veterinary Science at the University of Wisconsin – Madison. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/31/what-your-vet-didnt-tell-you-about-all-those-puppy-and-kitty-vaccines.aspx

I do not use any chemical flea or tick preventatives. In my opinion, when it comes to fleas and ticks the best defense is a strong immune system. I have a SNAP 4DX test done on my dogs every 6 months to test for tick transmitted diseases. I comb my dogs with a flea comb daily during flea/tick season and have never found any fleas or ticks (and they’re hounds that spend quite a bit of time outdoors). Since switching to a species-appropriate raw diet I haven’t had any parasite issues (internal or external). I do use some natural-oil based topicals and shampoos and give them an herbal flea and tick tincture from Earth Animal (formulated by Dr. Goldstein).

Concerning Frontline and which contains the active ingredient “fipronil”:

• Dr. Dobozy of the EPA’s Pesticide Division has found that the active ingredient (fipronil) in Frontline remains in a pet’s system with the potential for nervous system and thyroid toxicity. Tests on laboratory animals resulted in thyroid cancer and altered thyroid hormones, liver and kidney toxicity, reduced fertility and convulsions. Frontline’s web site creates the impression that the product stays in the oil glands of the skin. But Dr. Dobozy’s study showed that, in fact, it does enter the body and the organ systems.
• This investigation determined fipronil residues on gloves worn while petting dogs after Frontline application. Frontline contains 9.8% fipronil, which controls fleas and ticks on dogs for at least 30 days. Frontline (1.34 ml) was applied topically on adult household dogs and gloves worn for 5 min during pettingwere collected 24 hr and 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 w post-Frontline application for fipronil residue determinations using GC/MS. The highest concentration of fipronil (589.3 +/- 205.7ppm) was detected 24 h after Frontline application and was undetectable in the gloves collected at 5w. Repeated exposure to such contamination can pose human health risks. [“Human Exposure to Fipronil from Dogs Treated with Frontline” can be found on Pubmed]
• Journal of Pesticide Reform Factsheet: Fipronil:
1. In tests with laboratory animals, fipronil causes aggressive behavior, damaged kidneys, and “drastic alterations in thyroid function.” The fipronil containing product ‘Frontline’ caused changes in the levels of sex hormones.
2. The offspring of laboratory animals exposed to fipronil during pregnancy were smaller than those of unexposed mothers. They also took longer to mature sexually.
3. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency classifies fipronil as a carcinogen because exposure to fipronil caused benign and malignant thyroid tumors in lab animals.

Imidacloprid (active ingredient in Advantage) and Pyrethrins (active ingredient in Biospot) have been found to have similar negative effects.

Concerning heartworm prevention. I do use heartworm prevention, however I’m very conservative with it. My dogs get an ivermectin-based preventative every 45 days during hearworm season. The FDA approvals cite that Heartguard, Interceptor and Revolution provide protection beyond 30 days. I use preventatives that contain heartworm prevention only – I avoid the preventatives that also contain wormers, flea preventatives, etc. I’m in northern NY so I usually end up administering the first dose in early May and the last dose sometime in November. Starting the day after my dogs receive their preventative I give milk thistle daily for one week to help protect their liver from the damaging effects of the ivermectin. The SNAP 4DX test I have done every 6 months also tests for heartworms. Dr. Becker has an article about heartworm prevention here: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/08/03/why-havent-pet-owners-been-told-these-facts-about-heartworm.aspx . This website also has a wealth of information concerning heartworm prevention: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjheartwormprevention.html .

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would only use flax if you’re feeding a lot of poultry – 1 tsp. oil or 1 tbs. ground flax (preferably sprouted) per pound of poultry fed. Poultry tends to be high in polyunsaturated fats (particularly linoleic acid) which red meats tend to be lower in, for this reason you want to avoid fat sources that are high in LA and, instead, add a fat source such as flax (or chia) which is lower in LA and higher in alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). I don’t agree with using “fish oil or coconut oil or flax oil” as flax oil and coconut oil are not a replacement for a quality fish oil. Fish oil supplies bioavailable omega 3’s in their long-chain forms – docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). Flax oil (and some other plant-based oils) do supply omega 3’s but they’re in the short-chain alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) form. The body has to convert ALA to EPA and DHA and this process is very inefficient (I’ve read that in many cases less than 15% of the ALA is converted). Coconut oil, while a very healthy addition to the diet, does not contain omega 3’s – it contains saturated fat, predominantly in the form of medium chain triglycerides (MCTs). I would recommend for a dog Mila’s size (she weighs around 50 lbs, right?) adding 1 capsule of a high quality fish oil daily or 1 tin (3.75 oz.) of sardines packed in water per week, up to 2 1/2 tsp. coconut oil per day and 1 tsp. flax oil or 1 tbs. ground flax per pound of poultry if she’s eating a lot of poultry. Hope that helps!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Aussie Mom –

I would recommend “See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix” – it’s a combination of whole foods and vitamins and minerals designed to balance a boneless raw meat diet. You add 2 – 4 tbs. per pound of meat and it supplies everything you need (in terms of vitamins, minerals, fiber and balancing the calcium to phosphorus ratio). I’m actually planning on utilizing this mix part time this fall when I go back to school to save me some time – as much as I love doing everything completely from scratch it can really take up a lot of time. You could use this while you’re researching how to do things completely from scratch. There are some other “pre-mixes” out there as well (Urban Wolf, Prefereance, Birkdale, Grandma Lucy’s, Sojo’s, Dr. Harvey’s, etc.). You will still need to add omega 3’s – either in the form of a quality fish oil, fatty fish, cage-free eggs or some combination of these.

If you’re concerned about a correlation between fish oil and prostate cancer I’d suggest reading this article by Dr. Mercola:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/31/omega-3-fats.aspx#!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[dog34747]

I have an 8 year old male, retired racing greyhound with a very sensitive stomach and allergies. He’s had severe ear infections, nasal congestion, compulsive licking and digestive problems. He is also hyper allergic to flea bites, with them even turning in to mini staph infections at each bite. Over the past 3 1/2 years I have tried nearly every brand on the market from Purina on up to Orijen. If it’s sold anywhere between the specialty boutique shops and PetsMart, I have probably tried it. I’ve tried grain-in, grain-free, corn-free, soy-free, gluten-free, chicken-free… etc. etc. I have tried chicken, turkey, fish, lamb, beef, bison, and I think one even had ostrich or something. Basically I’ve tried everything. I have even tried the high-end frozen raw diet food, he just simply won’t touch it. He does not appear to be allergic to chicken specifically, I’ve tried poultry based foods and foods with absolutely no poultry of any kind and the result is the same.

Every single grain-free food causes, horrendous breath, loose stool and severe gas. No amount of pumpkin, yogurt, supplement pro-biotics or pre-biotics seems to fix it, sometimes those relieve things for a day or two but never permanently. It seems directly linked to the percent of protein, above a certain point and these issues start. He seems ok around 22% but usually anything in that range is not grain-free.

The grain-in foods (and treats) increase his nasal congestion (like a kid sucking the snot in vs. blowing his nose, not the same as a reverse sneeze) and the obsessive licking, and they also exacerbates the ear infections. He has had the ear infections recurring, or perhaps even continually but low level, since I got him. He was on a grain-in food when I got him and I immediately switched to grain-free but the ear never fully cleared up even on grain-free. The ear is finally cleared up (for now) after lots of meds though I’m worried his diet will bring it back.

I have tried some raw foods and veggies but they seem to pass through him without even being digested at all.

Any kind of food with potato as a major ingredient seems to act as an immediate diuretic, causing him to be constantly thirsty, panting and drinking and therefore needing to go out 7+ per day every few hours and even having accidents in the house which otherwise he has never had before. This includes all those limited ingredient foods because they all seems to be potato based.

The only time I have had any luck with a food is with Iams Sensitive Naturals Ocean Fish. Yes, I know it doesn’t rank highly and many people here are against it, but it was literally the only food that stopped the breath/stool/gas problems in their tracks, nearly overnight. I’ve heard others say they had similar good luck with Iams and attribute it to the beet pulp, not sure if that’s really true but I can say it worked for my dog. He went about eating it with no digestive issues for 9 months or so but the silent ear infection got worse and worse and the nasal issues got worse. Then we tried Eukanuba Wild Salmon/Rice and the ear/nasal continued to get worse and the licking started. The only benefit to the Eukanuba was his coat was suddenly full, fluffy and soft and the traditional greyhound bald spots were even filling in. I was bothered by the increase in allergies so I’ve gone back to looking for something else.

So I’ve since re-tried several other grain-free foods and the Biljac Sensitive formula, all produce the same old problems. Re-tried a limited potato food, same problem.

I’d like to note he has been tested repeatedly for worms, giardia, heartworms, etc. and all negative. He has had bloodwork taken regularly and it is all absolutely perfect, including thyroid. His teeth have been cleaned by the vet recently and are good. He has absolutely no medical issues outside of the allergies and stomach sensitivities. Also, several vets and others suggested giving him claritan or benedryl to relieve the nasal and skin related reactions but it seems to do nothing for him.

I’m sorry this post is so long, thanks for reading all of it, I was trying to give the full background so folks know what I’ve already tried on this great food adventure. I’m looking for any suggestions, advice, testimonials, whatever on food and treats. I’m willing to try any food to get him to be comfortable, as long as it doesn’t require a second mortgage to pay for it. Thanks in advance!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Aussie Mom –

Homemade raw is actually much cheaper than pre-made raw. I spend just under $200 a month to feed my girls a homemade raw diet – for comparative purposes it would cost me nearly $800 per month to feed Darwin’s (based on the average cost of all of their formulas). There are many ways to keep costs low when feeding a homemade raw diet: 1) Utilize raw meaty bones (chicken backs, turkey necks, etc.) – they are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat and if fed in appropriate quantities will eliminate the need for a calcium supplement; 2) Use heart, gizzards and green tripe for the muscle meat component of the diet – these items are cheap and nutritious, dogs have no need for expensive cuts of meat such as boneless skinless chicken breast or beef sirloin; 3) Buy in bulk. I purchase my meat from a wholesaler that supplies restaurants and grocery stores – nearly every item I buy is under $1 per pound; 4) Purchase supplements from a human nutritional store, in bulk when possible – this is much cheaper than buying supplements marketed towards pets. I purchase all supplements for both myself and my dog from Swanson’s – best prices I’ve seen. I make my own green supplement by purchasing the ingredients I want in 1 lb. bags and combining them.

Hare Today is great – I do purchase a few things from there (mostly Green Tripe). Their products are not human grade as they contain things like green tripe, ground bone, fur/feathers (for whole prey grinds) that are not suitable for human consumption (but very nutritious for animals) and the products aren’t processed in a human food facility. Using Hare Today grinds may be slightly cheaper than pre-made raw but if you really want to cut costs you need to do it from scratch – many butchers will sell RMBs and offal cheaply as they’re not desirable for humans or hook up with a supplier like I did.

If you’re interested in homemade raw I would highly recommend purchasing “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. It’s wonderful book for beginners and includes AAFCO compliant recipes that are easy to make and utilize easy to find and cheap ingredients. Dogaware(dot)com is also a great online resource.

[losul]

Hy Cyndi!

By now you have maybe already looked it up. I don’t see any serious problem with what you did. In fact I sometimes do the same with small quantitities to be used fairly quickly. Sometimes it’s just not very feasible to do any other way. I guess I mostly just used the opportunity to plug Steve’s book again, lol. While I don’t consider it to be the absolute gospel, I do think he gives a solid foundation to start, so I highly reccomend to folks thinking about starting a raw and/or fresh diet, balancing foods, and/or improving a dogs processed food diet with minimum effort, along with other good tips and advice, and interesting tidbits like gross inaccuracies of professional laboratory analysis testing.

The only thing he hypothesizes about about mixing in vegetables with ground meats before freezing, is that it can further degrade nutrients in the meats and shortens the shelf life because of additional ice crystal formation further damaging the cell walls and making even more exposed to oxidizing agents. It could be a consideration if prepping and freezing for longer periods, or for commercial raw foods that already contain veggies. He says to insist on knowing the production date and then determine yourself the quality shelf life, not just on some of the manufacturers proclaimed 12 month expiration date.

Other things about frozen storage;

for frozen at constant 0 degress, ground meats and whole poultry giblets, USDA only determines to be considered quality that they are used in 3 to 4 months. Whole meats, roasts, poultry, etc., up to 1 year.

Once frozen, and especially ground meats and fish, or especially those with delicate polyunsturated fats, oxidation, degradation, enzyme activity, etc continues, albeit at a slower pace. Ice crystals also grow steadily, increasing damage to cell walls.

I’ve tried to get one friend interested in feeding her (health problems)dogs better, and I had left the book for her to read. She will still have nothing to do with raw, but I thought I had some of it sinking in until visiting recently I saw she again had a large bag of kibble standing wide open in her too warm laundry room. I scolded her carefully(again), closed the bag and brought it in, went and got my book and insisted She read right then and there the section on kibble storage.

I’m convinced that many of todays illnesses are caused by rancidity, nutrient degradation, molds and mycotoxins, and infestatations, from kibble stored too long or under inadequate conditions, especially with the move away from toxic, but more effective, chemical preservatives, and the move towards more delicate fats, and presumably much less toxic, but also much less efficient natural preservatives. I currently feed only about 25% kibble, majority raw, and the rest canned. Probably in the near future I will go to 100% or near, home prepped raw.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi soccermom7 –

Do not add Preference to a balanced kibble. Preference is designed for the addition of boneless meat. Meat is high in phosphorus but has negligible amounts of calcium (dogs need calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio) therefore pre-mixes such as Preference are very high in calcium to compensation for the addition of meat, kibble already has a balanced C:P ratio so adding Preference would potentially throw it off. Additionally, if anything you should be adding more meat to kibble not fruits and vegetables – kibble is too high in plant matter as it is.

As far as a kibble replacement for THK – there is not kibble replacement. The Honest Kitchen is a minimally processed food and about as close to a raw natural or home cooked diet as you can get with feeding commercial food. THK even has some enzymes still intact. Kibble is highly processed. I can understand wanting to cut costs because THK is pricey (I used to feed it) but, unfortunately, going to kibble is going to be a huge decrease in quality.

My recommendations would be to consider a homemade diet (raw or cooked, whatever you’re more comfortable with). There are many books available with balanced recipes. Homemade diets can be done very cheaply. When I was feeding two of my bloodhounds THK I was spending over $500 per month. I’m now feeding them a homemade raw diet, which is even healthier than THK, and spending just under $200 per month. You may want to check out Grandma Lucy’s – it’s another dehydrated type food similar to THK and is a bit more reasonably priced. Another option would be to feed kibble for one meal and THK for the other or to “top” the kibble with some rehydrated THK. You could also look into canned foods – many canned foods are expensive however there are some really reasonably priced quality canned foods available. Pure Balance (available at Walmart) it is rated 5 stars and costs between $1 and $1.25 per can. Costco sells Kirkland Cuts in Gravy which is rated 5 stars for $0.79 per can. 4Health which is rated 4.5 stars is available at Tractor Supply for $0.99 per can. If you added an enzyme supplement to one of these foods it would be nearly as good as THK and much better than kibble. If you do find that you need to go with an entirely kibble diet, I’d pick a 5 star kibble, rotate brands often for variety and add some fresh foods whenever possible (leftover meat, eggs, yogurt, tinned sardines, etc.).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yeah – basically Steve just talks about how frozen raw foods should be used within three months. If foods are frozen longer than that fats can go rancid and antioxidants can oxidize. This shouldn’t be an issue for your purposes. I’m always going back and re-reading things, especially Steve’s book. Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet is my go to.

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Do you by chance have the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet”? If you do, pages 90 and 91 (2010 edition) gives very good info on frozen storage and quality concerns. The rest of chapter 7 “Storing Foods to Retain Quality” gives excellent info for storing dry foods

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Patty. When I used to feed kibble I switched to a new brand with a new protein source after each bag (every few weeks) and I rotated canned or fresh food toppers (yogurt, raw eggs, sardines, leftover meat, etc.) daily. Now my dogs eat a homemade diet and get something completely different at every meal.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shilohsure –

Pre-made raw food is very expensive and Primal is probably the most expensive brand of all. Pre-made raw really is financially impractical for large breed dogs and multi-dog households. If you want to feed raw I’d highly recommend researching homemade raw and learning to make your own. Homemade raw is higher quality than pre-made raw and it’s much cheaper. I’m currently spending under $200 per month to feed my two girls raw – they’re both around 70 lbs. and they each eat about 2 lbs. of meat/bone/organ + extras (eggs, kefir, veggies, supplements, etc.) per day. If you go to the raw food forum there’s a thread with recommended menus, you can check out what I feed my girls there. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a great book for beginners getting started on homemade raw.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[WhippetsGo2]

I am posing this situation for a whippet friend in our club. Their 3 year old whippet was not been eating regularly starting beginning of this summer. Tried different foods and such to no avail. Just recently he refused to go on a walk and at the same time the owner noticed that his breathing pattern was off. He was taken to the vet and they discovered through a chest x-ray that he had fluid in his lungs. They drained the fluid, sent it out for testing and it came back as being chylous. They were told, in layman’s terms that means he has trouble digesting fats. He was put on a prescription low fat diet and eating again but 12 days later his breathing symptoms came back and he was rushed to the vet where they extracted even more fluid from his lungs. The vet wants to give the low fat diet a chance to work but if the fluid should return a third time, he wants to do an ultrasound to see if there are any heart issues associated.

In my rudimentary searches, the appearance of fat is expected in chylous fluid. Anyone have any experience? Onset of heart disease? Want to help my peeps ask the right questions.

Brian
4 x Whippets for racing, coursing, agility & show
Feeds raw, supplements with 6 Fish and Stella’s Freeze Dried for the road.

[emchide]

Hi everyone, and thanks for such an informative site with a lot of informative posts by those willing to share their hard-learned experiences. I’ve been poring over a lot of the discussions and digging in to the facts presented, and I’m trying hard not to duplicate questions already asked.

One manufacturer I came across seems not to have a presence on this website yet – it’s listed in the topic, GreenTripe.com. What particularly intrigues me are their various formulations using trachea, gullet, and pancreas, among others. What do you experienced raw food people think of this variation? At a glance, it looks like shipping costs might be somewhat prohibitive unless ordering in serious bulk.

I’m thinking my best bet to start is simply checking with the local grocers for various RMBs and organs on the cheap and using those as well as eggs, yogurt, and so on as a topper for grain-free kibble (currently rotating among Halo Puppy Salmon, Halo Surf and Turf, Nature’s Variety Instinct Duck, and Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit with canned toppings like Wellness Core and Solid Gold Green Cow Tripe). Ideally I would eventually transition to all home-prepared ingredients but I definitely need to read up more on vegetables and supplements for a while first.

Oh, and my dog is a four-month old boxer/pit mix – he’s growing like a weed and I’m slightly concerned we’ve been using a few too many treats for training in addition to his three meals a day as he’s gone from 13 lbs on June 12 when we adopted him to 32 currently, but he seems healthy as a horse and has great energy. The only issue seems to be some scratching and itching which has somewhat receded as his flea treatment has kicked in (I still find fleas on him but they seem unwell and are easy to catch and crush), but he came home on SD of course from the SPCA so I am hoping that dietary improvements might eliminate any potential skin issues if they exist.

I look forward to gleaning a lot more valuable knowledge from these discussions, and thanks again for expending the energy to inform more people – I really appreciate the love-driven data!

• This topic was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by emchide.
• This topic was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by emchide.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I second MPC – great stuff. I wish I was in their delivery zone. I order from them sometimes but usually end up going with Hare Today because Hare Today is closer and has cheaper shipping to NY. I highly recommend MPC’s green tripe supermix and their ground lamb supreme. Just keep in mind MPC only sells meat/bone/organ “grinds”, tripe, offal, RMBs, etc. – this is not complete and balanced raw and if it’s going to make up a significant portion of your pup’s diet you’ll need to learn how to properly balance it.