[beaglemom]

SandyandMila/HDM… haha I just had to comment on this (though I know it was awhile ago). HDM you must never have joined the “rawfeeding” yahoo group! They are “interesting” to say the least… I definitely come here first but here’s the lessons this list wants you to believe: dogs need zero supplements, ever; all dogs need to eat is meat meat meat (and a little bone and a little organs); bones don’t clean teeth, tearing at meat chunks does; necks of any sort have no place in the diet unless attached to the animal; ground meat is evil; veggies and fruits are evil; tripe is useless. LOL. I will join the “thank goodness i found this site” crowd and also to tie in to the topic of this thread, I am expecting my first Hare Today order on Wednesday and can’t wait!!! (And it includes duck necks!!!) 🙂

[FreeholdHound]

Inkedmarie- I believe I did lol. I am LOVING this stuff for Harry, ahemmm…. Excuse me, HARRY is loving this stuff :). After a year of kibble hell to find Natures Logic and get all the help I’ve gotten from this AMAZING forum it feels like Christmas!!! My family is convinced I’ve gone off the deep end but they never had to walk a dog with paper plates in hand instead of poop bags BLECH

[InkedMarie]

Freehold, so it was Natures Logic? LOL, I wasn’t sure, I just know when I saw it, i thought, hey, I know them!

[SandyandMila]

beaglemom: I know! On that group they practically scold you for asking questions. It seems a lot if dog parents need help because their dogs are getting ill on raw, well maybe if they’re being instructed to feed it the right way (with organ meat, tripe, veggies/fruits, supplements) they wouldn’t be getting sick. I just started switching to raw a little over a month ago after getting Mila spayed and vaccinated. Her skin and coat really took a hit by the weakening of her immune system. I joined that group in hopes of getting some help, finding suppliers, maybe shared recipes. I officially left that group the other day. People on here are so helpful. They take time out of there busy lives to help educate us on proper nutrition for our dogs, they’re not rude even when others have been rude to them. A lot of us newbies have no clue what to do or where to start they help us to point us in the right direction. Mila’s skin and coat is starting to look a lot better and she’s long, lean, and muscular and I know it’s because of their help. Mila begs for her food now (just had her first raw dressed rabbit this morning) , she never did that before with commercial food, and that was some of the best stuff out there. So I’m very pleased. Which Nature’s Logic do you use? I only feed kibble one meal a week and am trying Annamaet right now and will probably switch to Nature’s Logic when the bag is done.

[FreeholdHound]

Right now I’m using the NL Beef formula & will be trying out the Sardine one next. I’m experimenting at the moment. I feed kibble in the AM & a mix w/ raw PM. Harry can’t have quite a few things in his kibble but so far he can if its raw. Turkey and chicken being the top 2. I’m trying to avoid those plus Salmon, venison white fish, sweet potato, & oatmeal in kibble- Natures Logic is just about the only kibble that has none of the ingredients that I’m trying to avoid. Miraculous. I am excited that he had the turkey neck w/no ill effects – turkey in kibble was his primary problem & turkey necks are something I’ve really wanted to use to help keep his teeth clean.
Inkedmarie- I think I left a review on Hare Today. I wrote an email to NL thanking them for such a great product. Maybe they posted it? I haven’t looked.

[SandyandMila]

Great, thanks! I have to travel a little to find Nature’s Logic kibble, it’s not sold at the pet stores I usually go to. 🙁 Going to start with the Hare Today turkey necks tomorrow, just portioned them out last night with the turkey hearts. And will also be getting pork necks for the first time this week. We’ll see how it goes.

[FreeholdHound]

Natures Logic isn’t available by me either- I ordered it from Wag.com. Since it was my 1st order I got 20% off and free shipping. I’ll keep checking around to see what else I can find & compare prices online. I believe Amazon has it also. 🙂

[SandyandMila]

I don’t mind the travel, I traveled just to find her a particular supplement yesterday. lol I order online if I have to but I’ve been able to find RMBs and green tripe locally and with Thanksgiving just around the corner turkey necks and hearts will be easier to get.

[FreeholdHound]

I think I’ve found NL Beef kibble about 20min away, but not the Sardine formula, I will have to call and see if they will possibly order some. I’ve also found a raw food supplier very close to me – not the biggest menu selection, but there are a few things I’m interested in (when I have room). Have him on the “call” list too.

[SandyandMila]

Nice!

[theBCnut]

FreeholdHound

I just wanted to let you know what my experience was with feeding raw a protein that my dog couldn’t handle in kibble. Micah can’t handle chicken in kibble, but I was able to give him raw chicken without seeing any signs that it was bothering him. That is untill about a month later. I gave chichen every 3 or so days, and after a month his hair started to get dry and greasy again. I never saw any of his usual signs, just the very gradual coat change. To test my theory that it was a minor reaction to the chicken, I took him completely off chicken again and his coat again went back to normal. So watch for subtle signs of coat change as well as the usual signs of intolerance.

[FreeholdHound]

Thank you I will. For now I’m testing the turkey necks. He’s tolerated chicken feet for quite a while now. It’s the bones I’m most interested in for his teeth. Since he’s eating kibble/ raw I don’t feel any real urge to push it . He loves his beef, lamb, pork & sardines. I’ve given him bits of chicken now & again but I don’t do it frequently. Maybe for Thansgiving he’ll have some turkey 🙂

[InkedMarie]

Freehold: I just looked, it’s a testimonial on the Natures Logic website!

My Boone can’t have chicken as a protein but I’m going to try one of the NL that has chicken somethingorother, see if it brings on ear issues. There’s brewers yeast in something, unsure if that’ll set him off but going to try. He does great on turkey stuff.

[FreeholdHound]

Good luck- I’m trying to locate the Sardine for my next bag. If not then I’ll try the Lamb. I didn’t know they published emails – I hope I used spellcheck !!

[theBCnut]

OMGoodness!! I just about have to use spellcheck to write my own name and it doesn’t help that autocorrect wants to switch it out for Party. LOL!!

[InkedMarie]

I think the NL sardine is one of two mid size bags online, good price & free shipping. Natural K 9 or omething along that line.

[InkedMarie]

Freehold: go to the NL site, look at online places for natural k9 or similar. Saw the sardine there.

[FreeholdHound]

Will do – checked Wag Chewy & Amazon earlier

[FreeholdHound]

Inkedmarie : Found it! Glad I can get the mid size bag — I’ve learned my lesson w/large bags until I know if it will work

[InkedMarie]

Glad you did! If Boone can eat it,then I can buy a large bag. I didn’t really think about food turning rancid til I found DFA. I always bought the largest bag since it was the best bang for the buck. I know better now (don’t have room to freeze it)

[FreeholdHound]

Yep. Plus no sooner would I convince myself that I had found “The One” and order a big bag – Harry would start to react to it. Luckily what I couldn’t return I could donate when Superstorm Sandy hit.

[SandyandMila]

I’m going to start feeding turkey necks with hearts today. I already portioned them out but I’m starting to think I may have done it wrong. How much hearts in oz. should I feed with an 8 oz. turkey neck, is 4 oz. too much? How much with a 10 oz. neck? Thanks

[theBCnut]

You portioned it fine. It’s half again of straight meat, so 8 oz of RMB gets 4 oz of meat added, 10 oz of RMB gets 5 oz of meat added. And you can be off by a little one way and then a little the other way next time.

[SandyandMila]

Great, thanks! I fed it to her (had to feed dinner earlier because of work) and she did great. I turned away for a minute to wash some dishes and when I turned back around she was licking the bowl clean. If I do hearts and gizzards, would I be adding less oz.?

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by SandyandMila.

[theBCnut]

Hearts and gizzards both count as meat, so the same amount combined.

[FreeholdHound]

So I was perusing the Hare Today site again (this may become an obsession) and I noticed the Green Tripe Strips & the Beef Gullet Strips. Sounds like good chew options (frozen) for Harry. Anyone order these?

[patvl246]

OK, excuse my ignorance, but what does &amp mean

[theBCnut]

Freehold, no, I haven’t ordered them yet, but I have been thinking about it too.

patvl246, it’s a html computer code to say “Put an ampersand in this spot”

[FreeholdHound]

Not a clue lol

[theBCnut]

We were posting at the exact same time!

[DogFoodie]

Good Morning guys!

I have a Hare Today question for you all. : )

Although I wish I didn’t have to (because of the cost and inconvenience), I’m thinking that I should switch my Golden boy, Sam, to all raw. Sam has developed another ear infection while eating a kibble he’s always done great on before. In addition to the infection in his right ear, he has a weepy right eye and what appears to be a pano flare up in his right front leg. I thought it seemed very coincidental that everything was happening on the right side of his body – so I really can’t say these symptoms are all food related; but, these are his only symptoms. His coat is beautiful, no paw licking, no scratching, no smell, etc. I really wanted to do kibble and have amassed a giant stash of it that I’ve spent hundreds of dollars on, much of which is going to end up being donated or given away to friends. : ( I’m taking Sam to the holistic vet tomorrow to see if there’s something more going on and suspect she’ll also encourage me to do raw full time.

So, yesterday, I exchanged a few emails with Tracy at Hare Today who was very helpful. I’d like to try their products to eliminate carbohydrates as much as possible. I’m starting Sam back on Darwin’s today and want to get a Hare Today order ready so that I receive it before I run out of the Darwin’s.

I initially wanted to use the grinds all the time, but Tracy said that not every meal needed to include bone and organs. She also suggested a boneless meal for the second meal of the day when I give Sam a turkey neck as one of his two meals. I need to keep the process as utterly simple as possible. I don’t want to have more than one kind of product thawing at a time because I know I’ll end up with waste that I’ll throw out if I do that. I have more time in the evening, but mornings are very hectic in that I have to have everyone out of the house and be on my way to work by 7:15 AM.

So, what would you guys suggest as the absolutely easiest “menu” option for feeding Hare Today exclusively? Between Sam and my Cavalier, Bella, they’ll be eating just under two pounds total per day. They’ll continue to get chicken and turkey necks several times per week. The only protein they don’t do well on is duck.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[beaglemom]

Freehold – I often browse Hare Today’s website every other day… frequently every day. lol. I just got an order yesterday but am already planning the next. I love looking too!

Betsy – excellent question, and I can’t wait to read the responses. Sorry I’m no help, but I’m in a similar boat as you where I think one of my dogs needs to go on full raw pretty soon due to allergy issues. It’s interesting Tracy said grinds aren’t necessary all the time because isn’t that what Darwin’s basically is? Unless Tracy’s have more bone than Darwin’s… not sure, but glad you asked this nonetheless.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Betsy –

What do you mean by menu option from Hare Today? Are you looking for suggestions as to which grinds to get or what you should add to the grinds?

[theBCnut]

Hi Betsy

When you get it all worked out, feed the 2 lbs a day and then fast as appropriate to control calories. Or you can refreeze the little bit each day that you don’t use and periodically turn all the little bits into a meal.

[InkedMarie]

Betsy: is it humid where you are? Boone has been fine, ear wise, for years, til this year. Now, he’s had an ongoing ear infection, bacteria & yeast. Pretty sure it’s from the humidity.

Good luck on the raw! Steve ometimes has to feed the dogs & he thinks Hare is a pain, lol. It’s easier to flip a Darwin’s into the bowl.

[DogFoodie]

Hi guys!

HDM, what I mean by “menu” is, what should I order. LOL! I’ve been studying the website and am worried about keeping things complete and balanced and my overwhelming need to keep the process as simple as possible. My head is spinning….

Tracy suggested, based on what I said I’d like to feed them, was that I feed two to four boneless meals per week to balance the bone as I was asking her about using all whole carcass grinds all the time. She suggested filling up a 50 pound box rather than trying to order enough for a specific period of time and she was definitely right.

So, here’s what I have in my shopping cart:

12 x 1 lb. Ground Chicken / Bone / Organs
12 x 1 lb. Ground Turkey / Bone / Organs
12 x 1 lb. Ground Beef / Organs/ Tripe and Bones
14 x 1 lb. Ground Green Tripe with Spleen (Beef) (our two to four boneless meals each week)

What do you think of this?

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by DogFoodie.

[DogFoodie]

Hey Marie,

I was definitely thinking that Sam’s ear could be environmental and yes, it’s been very humid lately. I fell asleep last night while I was starting to post this whole thing and believe it’s there where I had mentioned that I almost felt that a total switch to raw might be jumping the gun. I like to do some raw, but really do not want to have to do it full time.

[Hound Dog Mom]

It looks like good protein variety. What were you planning on adding to it? If you want to make sure things are balanced but keep the processes as simple as possible I’d suggest just adding a multivitamin daily and mixing in some tinned sardines or fish oil a few times a week.

[InkedMarie]

I’m sticking with some Darwin’s, canned, kibble and dehydrated. Will have to be good enough!

[SandyandMila]

Speaking of boneless meals, I wanted to ask a question. Would the meat (ground beef and turkey) be at the same ratio 2:1 with organs/tripe as it is with a RMB or is it more equal amount 1lb:1lb? I’ve only used ground beef with Preference so far and added tripe as an “extra” like with the cottage cheese and coconut/fish oils and wanted to maybe add some organ meat. Should I just add the organ meat as extra as well or add it ground and portion it out with the meat (2/3 cup)? Thanks 🙂

[DogFoodie]

Thanks Patty!

That sounds like a good idea. I get a little wiggy about my raw foods sometimes. I’ll have it thawing and then suddenly look in the fridge and wonder to myself, “Now just exactly how long has this stuff be in here?” I do the same thing with human food.

[DogFoodie]

OK HDM, gotcha.

I already have plenty of krill oil and sardines on hand so I can start that ASAP. That order that I mentioned is just the initial to get me started. I’ll probably vary the proteins with each order sticking primarily with red meats. In order for me to follow through with this it has to be very simple and have some structure… otherwise, it’ll never stick.

Is there a particular multivitamin supplement you’d suggest?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sandy –

I’m not quite sure exactly what you’re asking. Are you wondering if you can add organ meat to Preference? If so, you certainly could – although I wouldn’t do it too often. Organ meat really shouldn’t be more than 10% of the diet and Preference should have all the nutrients added to account for the organ meat. It would definitely be fine to add in a little bit of organ meat once or twice a week though. Organ meat is very high in phosphorus, even higher than boneless meat. 1 oz. of beef liver has 108 mg. phosphorus and 1 oz. 85% lean ground beef has 48 mg. phosphorus (just to give you an idea). So less organ meat would be needed to balance the calcium to phosphorus ratio of an RMB meal versus boneless muscle meat.

[DogFoodie]

Just mentioning…, the reason why I thought I’d go with Hare Today (rather than Darwin’s which would be much easier to me) is because there are no added fruits and veggies. Another thing Tracy mentioned was that Sam probably shouldn’t have any root vegetables. I mentioned that he had done well on Horizon Legacy, but she pointed out that even the apples and carrots in that could be problematic. Probably the only potential problem ingredient in the Darwin’s would be carrots and I have no reason to believe that carrots are a problem for Sam.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Betsy –

Any human multivitamin would be fine, just look for one with very little or no calcium.

I’ve taken this one myself, it’s a bit pricier but the human serving size is 6 capsules so it would be easy to portion out – probably one or two for Bella and 4 or 5 for Sam.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/new-chapter-tiny-tabs-whole-food-multivitamin-192-tabs

Something basic such as these would work as well.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/twinlab-daily-one-180-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/country-life-daily-total-one-maxi-sorb-60-veg-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/carlson-super-2-daily-180-sgels

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/solgar-formula-vm-75-180-tabs

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[SandyandMila]

Oh ok, that makes sense. Tripe is ok though right it doesn’t throw off anything? She has it 3 times a week with beef meal as an “extra” whether it be with the Preference, Primal, or Bravo blend. Or is that too often for tripe?

[InkedMarie]

Betsy, it kind of depends what kind of raw you want to feed, prey model with just meat/bone or a barf type of diet. I have a group on fb that is strictly prey model. They know what variety I feed, while they don’t agree with it, they respect my choice.

Tracy may be right about the veggies; if I could afford to feed Boone just Hare stuff, I’d be curious to see if the paw licking stopped.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Tripe naturally has a balanced 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio – it’s the only boneless meat that does. Feeding tripe three times a week is perfectly fine. My Gertie and Mabel currently get raw green tripe three days were week and when Gertie was a puppy and on THK she got a can of Tripett daily.

[SandyandMila]

They sure do love it! Adding organ meat to RMBs is ok though right?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Definitely.

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