Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition

Dog Food Advisor Forums Diet and Health Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition

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  • #22534 Report Abuse
    Hershy
    Participant

    Extremely valid point, Patty!
    I shouldn’t be so hard on them. I guess if they didn’t push certain foods as “best” for your dog (when I know it isn’t true), I wouldn’t have such a hard time with it. But you’re right about how it would take many, many years. Although if I were a Vet, I would want to keep learning, especially about nutrition, knowing that Any living creature IS only as good as what it eats. At least choose a species to focus on, whatever it is, know what I mean?

    #22535 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi Duke the Boxer –

    I really don’t use any other forums – but maybe some other will be able to recommend some. Not a forum, but one good resource would be your breed’s parent club – often breed clubs’ websites have some great information pertaining specifically to that breed and the health problems they are pre-disposed to. Many breeds also have forums dedicated to them. I’ve never come across a bloodhound forum (unfortunately) but boxers are a much more common breed so I’d be willing to bet there’s a boxer forum out there.

    #22536 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    Karen Pryor is a good resource, so is Susan Garret. Not sure if they have forums, but hdm is right in that most all breeds have forums who may be better help.

    #22537 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    Hdm, I just did a google search for bloodhound owners forum and found quite a few forums dedicated to bloodhounds. Not sure what I’d be looking for, but it looks like there’s some out there.

    #22538 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Yeah but he stuff that comes up is just topic areas in general dog discussion forums and there isn’t much there. I wish I could find something along the lines of germanshepherds(dot)com or lab-retriever(dot)net, etc.

    Found a couple of good ones for boxers:

    boxerworld(dot)com and boxerforums(dot)com

    #22539 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    Ahh, got it.

    #22540 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Hi Hersy

    I agree, once a vet decides they are going to go large, or small animal, I wish they would get into nutrition, realizing that good food will have their patients around a lot longer. But for the most part, the vets that I worked with thought they were doing pretty good. They fell for Hill’s pitch, hook, line, and sinker. I don’t understand how they can believe they are qualified to feed their on children, if they don’t believe the average person is capable of figuring out what is good for their dog. I wish when it comes to nutrition, that they would just send people to nutritionists or at least suggest that the owner do some research. Admittedly, some people are just happy to have their vet make the decision for them, but we aren’t all like that.

    #22541 Report Abuse
    avamom
    Participant

    Hi, I am new to this forum. I have been referencing DFA since I first put down the deposit on my English mastiff puppy. She is will be 7 months old this week and we have had a time. I was feeding Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy for the first 5 months. She had a rash and I thought it might be a food allergy she was on flea meds and I never saw any. It wasn’t horrible but it was constant. I took her off thinking maybe it was the chicken and put her on Natural Choice Sweet Potato and Venison. It got much worse within a week. Got to looking at ingredients and realized there were sweet potatoes in the BBWP as well. Tried Natural Choice Venison and Potato better but still not gone (this one had carrots). We discovered a beta carotene or at least an orange vegetable allergy. Took her off everything and cooked her rice or potatoes and ground venison for a month. She got too lean and even though she was getting a multi vitamin I was concerned about proper nutrition. Help! What can I feed her that is good for her overall health and proper growth, but that does not cause allergic reactions.

    #22551 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    Ok! Back from the vet!

    I was seriously not impressed with the care we got from the one I’d been bringing family pets to since I was six, so we went elsewhere. That seriously miffed me. They’d been great with all our other pets, but then I brought in my little guy at 14 weeks (!) and I think the vet just had it out for him because he’s seen as a bully breed. Vets shouldn’t be breedist, methinks, because they see good and bad examples of all breeds, big and small, bad rep or not. Off my soapbox, though. She wouldn’t believe me when I said he had tapeworms and even brought in a sample with the segment clearly sitting right on top, among other things. I talked to her about giardia and she’s like, no he doesn’t have it, without testing and seemed quite reluctant upon my insistence of it.

    SO! New vet, recommended from a friend, who also happens to be a vet tech there, which was wonderful. They were going to run the EPI and fecal pathogen test, but the vet did a wellness check on him and his body condition, activity level, and personality were all awesome, so we’re starting first with a diet change. She said the funny color stools were because the last vet’s response to my saying “please help, diarrhea for a month now” was just to throw antibiotics at him that did nothing, so his gut is all sort of out of whack. The did a wellness check, fecal float, coccidia and giardia tests, and a few other things I don’t remember off the top of my head.

    We’re trying a royal canin RX GI food (ewewew, I cringe at the ingredient list!) for two weeks. So for two weeks, all he’s allowed to ingest is the GI food, and boiled chicken as training treats. She wants to keep him on the Fortiflora (because she’s used to it) just for now, but when I asked her about the 15 strain supplement you told me about, she was all for it. We went for the abrupt change because his gut is so messed up, and once he’s stable we’re going to slowly transition him to raw. I love that I found a vet that is all for raw and can’t wait to help me swap to it!!! She seems amazing, and I love her team. 🙂 If, though, the 2 week seriously limited diet does nothing, though, then he gets to go through a gauntlet of testing. She’s almost completely certain, though, that it’s dietary and not anything seriously wrong, which helps me breathe easier.

    Although I’m not a fan of the GI food ingredients and fortiflora, I’m ok with it for now, just to get him sorted. I want to give this vet a chance to try what she knows before I just go “Ew, no.” and be the brat that asks for help but won’t accept what’s given as help. That and because she wants to start working him toward raw asap. Who knows. We’ll see where it goes.

    Not sure I’m gonna be able to deal with the puppy eyes when he doesn’t get to have his dried trachea…or bully sticks… or duck feeties…. o.o Haha!

    #22552 Report Abuse
    InkedMarie
    Member

    Glad you hada positive vet visit!

    #22556 Report Abuse
    Hershy
    Participant

    Hi, Patty,
    Thanks for your post. Well said about the topic of Vets and animal nutrition…always room for improvement, right?…by me, too! I definitely plan to do a much better job feeding my “kids” a delicious and healthy diet.

    HI, HDM & Patty,
    And looks like I may get a second chance with my Charlotte girl. I am thankful that Charlotte’s cancer screen came back negative yesterday evening, but Vet held back saying there was none, in that she said she sampled only a small portion, so could still be early stages. I’ll take that, and look at it as another chance to do a better job with her. If she has it, at least it is very early.
    Thanks, HDM and Patty, for encouraging me to go ahead with the test. Of course I needed to know. Not sure what I was thinking.
    Now, moving forward with her new diet, mostly raw. I will start with her, and slowly add the other 3. Although I have already transitioned all to 4 & 5 star kibble. I top my puppy, Crystal’s, Nutri-Source Lg. Breed puppy food with Merrik Grain Free Tripe, and the 3 big dogs have been getting Pro Balance Canned as a topper.
    I can’t thank you all enough for this education I continue to receive. How I nourish my dogs will keep improving, and I will definitely keep in touch with this forum.
    Will soon add the raw food forum to my list of preferred reading : )
    Patty, hope your dog’s result was at least as good.
    Thanks, again!

    #22570 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I’m glad you went ahead. Doesn’t it feel like a weight off to have that behind you instead of hanging over you!! I probably won’t hear for another week on mine, but keep thinking good thoughts.

    #22574 Report Abuse
    Hershy
    Participant

    It really does, especially since it was better news than I feared!
    I will keep on hoping and praying for the best for yours, too, Patty.
    Thank you!

    #22593 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    Thanks, InkedMarie. 🙂

    Sending good thoughts your way, Patty!
    Hershy – hooray for second chances! Wishing for best of luck for you and Charlotte!

    #22629 Report Abuse
    Hershy
    Participant

    Thank you, EHubbman! : )

    #22632 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi avamom –

    I would recommend feeding a food of the list of appropriate large and giant breed puppy foods posted here. Blue Buffalo Wilderness and Nutro Natural Choice are not appropriate foods for a growing giant breed puppy such as a Mastiff. The Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Turkey formula or the rabbit formula might be a good food to try. Sometimes with sensitive dogs it’s trial and error until you figure out which foods are causing the issues.

    #22634 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hey Hersy – So glad to hear Charlotte is cancer free! 🙂

    #22637 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Patty, I must have missed where you were having a cancer test on Angel. Was it the histiocytoma? I hope everything goes well! I’ll be praying for you!

    #22638 Report Abuse
    Hershy
    Participant

    Thanks, HDM. I am happy and relieved!:))

    #22647 Report Abuse
    avamom
    Participant

    Thank you Hound Dog Mom! I will check out the ingredients on those!

    #22651 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Hi HDM

    Yeah, it was the histiocytoma. It kept right on growing, and since it was right over the veins and arteries in her front leg, I didn’t want to let it get too big before we went ahead and removed it. Good thing too, because it had some suspicious spots in it. They were going to wait to send it to pathology until the vet in the practice who is their expert got back in town,which was Monday, so I should hear any day now.

    #22654 Report Abuse

    Hey hdm I know this is off topic but can you recomend a good small treat for training my little one? 🙂 the treats I’m using now are only 1 1/2 calorie per soft kibble. Pet botanics is the name of the brand.

    #22656 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    These are good training treats: http://charleebear.com/

    Pattyvaughn: good luck, I’ll hold good thoughts…

    #22657 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    My favorite training treats are ZiwiPeak food, Vital Essential’s freeze-dried nibblets and Nature’s Variety Instinct freeze-dried raw (in the nuggets). I like to use complete and balanced foods for treats whenever possible and the dogs seem to really like these foods.

    #22658 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Thanks for the good thoughts and especially the prayers everyone.

    My favorite treats and my dogs too are the freeze dried foods, lots of meat and not much else, very little processing.

    #22661 Report Abuse

    I was trying to looking for something that wasnt too many colories as I’m still training him to walk on a leash and to potty on the grass and not the outside tile; which isn’t a huge deal but I want him to know where is the place to poop. Haha. Back to the training treats I was reading maybe something like baby carrots? I took him to the vet today and he is 22 pounds at close to 16 weeks old. I got a fecal test done and nothing came up. He looks healthy, the ribs are barely visible but honestly I rather keep him a littler slimmer before he gets neutered so he will gain not as much weight. He is still getting the proper food portions and today I just started rotating in wellness core.

    #22662 Report Abuse
    Hershy
    Participant

    You are MOST welcome, Patty. Hope to hear great news soon!

    #22666 Report Abuse
    InkedMarie
    Member

    I like Buddy Biscuit itty bittys or teeny treats

    #22667 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    My little guy personally likes Zuke’s Mini Naturals.

    #22668 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Training treats should be very high value – so something meaty. I wouldn’t do vegetables. As long as the treat is small it shouldn’t add a significant amount of calories. You could also do something like cook a boneless, skinless chicken breast into cubes.

    #22671 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Hi hdm, pattyvaughn, and all the other wonderful contributors and questioners,

    I’ve been reading and re-reading various posts in this informative forum topic. I’m love to have a way to print the topic and pull out all the info into a single document. May have to work on that

    Anyway I will soon have my new puppy, a Shiloh Shepherd. We’ve always had GSDs, the last several we’re rescues but we went thru a breeder this time and I want to do everything possible to raise a healthy happy dog. My husband said I need grandkids based on how excited I am about this pup true but none of the kids are even remotely ready to be parents so….

    Finally my questions. My breeder recommends a supplement called The Missing Link. Is anyone familiar with it? Thoughts, concerns? And I plan to feed raw or a combination of raw and kibble but l need to know if there’s a nutritional difference between freeze-dried and frozen. In other words are the ones on the list referring to frozen only or either?

    Sending positive thoughts to pattyvaughn and anyone else awaiting test results.

    #22685 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi shilohsue –

    I’m familiar with Missing Link. Looking at their puppy supplement (assuming that’s what you’d be using) there’s nothing in it that should pose a problem however I’m personally not impressed with their line of supplements – there are much better supplements out there. The biggest issue that I have with their supplements is that they all contain molasses – in other words sugar, it also only has on strain of probiotics which isn’t going to be of much benefit. Some supplements I’d recommend:

    WellyTails Puppy Smart Start (I used this for one of my dogs until she was 6 months old) it contains colostrum, marine algae and microencapsulated fish oil which provide DHA and EPA, 6 strains of probiotics, 7 digestive enzymes, antioxidants and whole foods.

    Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier which is completely whole food based and contains 5 strains of probiotics and 4 enzymes.

    Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies and Young Dogs which is an herb and whole food based supplement.

    Frozen foods would be a better choice than freeze-dried foods because they’re less processed and they’re much cheaper to feed.

    #22775 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Thanks very much, hdm. I will check out the supplements you mentioned.

    #22776 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    I’m having trouble finding any raw brands locally except Primal and Stella and Chewy’s. I’m in St. Louis, MO. Does anyone know where I can find K9 Kraving or some of the other raw brands either locally or online? AlphaDogSpecialties.com carries K9 but can’t ship the frozen and they’re in Maryland. And is it recommended to rotate raw brands or is that more important with kibble?

    #22779 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    *waves* another St. Louisan! I don’t know any other brands around here other than Primal and Stella’s, presonally. I know mypetcarnivore delivers around the STL area, and a lot of the raw feeds around here go through ross wells, too.

    There’s a group on facebook:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/metrostlouisrawfeeders/338119236322492/?notif_t=group_activity

    (I hope that links shows up) and they might be a good resource for you!

    #22782 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    Thanks for the link EHubbman, and the tip on mypetcarnivore! I will check them out.

    #22783 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    I second MPC – great stuff. I wish I was in their delivery zone. I order from them sometimes but usually end up going with Hare Today because Hare Today is closer and has cheaper shipping to NY. I highly recommend MPC’s green tripe supermix and their ground lamb supreme. Just keep in mind MPC only sells meat/bone/organ “grinds”, tripe, offal, RMBs, etc. – this is not complete and balanced raw and if it’s going to make up a significant portion of your pup’s diet you’ll need to learn how to properly balance it.

    #22864 Report Abuse
    kobe
    Participant

    HI,

    I am a new member and need advice on my bernese mountain dog pup in NYC
    unfortunately, he was sent to me from he west coast with giardia intestinal infection–the good news is that after multiple courses of metronidazole and fenbendazole,i think this parasite is gone—the pup is 5 months old this week–i am starting to slowly transition him off the Hills I AND D—i was recommended the natures variety-large breed puppy kibble which i have been adding slowly—–BUT THE COMMENTS I HAVE READ ON THIS FOOD AND COMPANY ON THIS WEBSITE HAVE NOT BEEN THAT POSITIVE!!!

    I KNOW I NEED to limit the calcium but i am confused by what i should be feeding him—regular kibble vs raw food vs ziwipeak?

    any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!

    #22865 Report Abuse
    kobe
    Participant

    any specific brands would also be helpful

    #22867 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi Kobe –

    I think Nature’s Variety has fairly positive comments overall. I personally feel it’s one of the best kibbles available. The Instinct LID Turkey, Instince Rabbit, Prairie Puppy and Prairie Large Breed Puppy are all appropriate for large breed puppies. Ziwipeak is a wonderful food, however I wouldn’t recommend feeding it to a large breed puppy due to its high calcium levels. Raw is preferable to kibble if you can afford it. If you scroll back a few pages there’s a link to a pdf file which lists appropriate foods.

    #22871 Report Abuse
    kobe
    Participant

    THANKS HDM,

    I CANT FIND WHAT PAGE THE LINK IS ON–CAN YOU LET ME KNOW SO I CAN READ IT
    LASTLY,WHAT BRAND OF RAW FOOD,IF ANY WOULD YOU SUGGEST FOR A 5 MONTH OLD BERNESE PUP?

    hound dog mom–if you have 60 seconds-call me at my cell 9177166149 as i finger type- quite slowly–i can get my thoughts out much quicker talking than finger typing–i guarantee i will keep it one minute or less

    thanks again,
    craig
    kobe’s dad

    #22878 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    I believe the link is currently around page 15. There are several brands of raw food on the list.

    #22899 Report Abuse
    cramfrominbobin
    Participant

    I am a new puppy owner, 2 black lab mixes about 4 months old. I never knew there was so much to learn about puppy nutrition, this forum has been fantastic! I’m incredibly sorry if this is a repeat, I’ve read through so many of the topics I think I’ve just confused myself..

    First off, I’d like to thank Hound Dog Mom for the great list you put together. It has been really helpful. Now to my question – I would like to start rotating their food and was wondering if these 3 would be good to switch between. They are currently on Wellness Core Puppy and I was thinking about adding Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit Meal and Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast to the rotation. Does this sound ok?

    Thanks so much!!
    Mary

    #22904 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    Hi, I’ve been absent for a bit….from commenting, always reading! A brand I never hear mentioned or recommended here is Nutrisca. Any thoughts? I got a trial size bag from PetFlow and was under the impression that it is an excellent food, yet it never pops up in these discussions…

    #22905 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I have reservations about the company that makes Nutrisca, so I won’t feed it. I don’t trust them to do the right thing in the event of a recall.

    #22907 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Hi Mary

    That sounds like the start of a nice rotation. If you end up being anything like the rest of us, our dogs love getting something new so much that we tend to keep trying new food after new food. Three would never do anymore. Have fun!

    #22914 Report Abuse
    kobe
    Participant

    TO HDMOM,

    Three quick questions for you–since my bernese puppy has just now recovered from giardia-total of 3 recurrences—is it a bad thing now to switch his kibble-since i am ALREADY slowly transitioning from HILLS I AND D TO natures variety Prairie large breed puppy kibble? I AM CONCERNED TO MUCH CHANGE TOO QUICKLY MAY THROW OFF HIS BOWEL FUNCTION AGAIN–
    eventually ,i would like to try one of the EARTBORN KIBBLES-do you think that the earthborn puppy formula kibble is good for a large puppy breed?it isnt labeled as large puppy food—————-lastly, whicj EARTHBORN preparation you you recommend for a large breed puppy? i am concerned about my pup used to kibble with grain in that i dont know how his system will react to possible grain-free food!!
    i value your experience and knowledge given my dog”s history with giardia– if you recommend EARTHBORN over NATURES VARIETY large greed puppy formula—then how long should i wait before changing the kibble and which form of EARTHBORN kibble would you recommend for my 5 month old bernese puppy?
    in tems of EARTHBORN WET FOOD-it is a stew–should i avoid a stew for the pup–one store employee believes that stews are more likely to cause diarrhea–Do you recommend EARTHBORN stew for my pup as a small add on to his kibble?

    sorry for picking your brain but i trust your judgement over the local store sales people and even local veterinarians!!

    thanks so much,
    Kobe’s dad

    #22920 Report Abuse
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi HDM,

    I am starting my Golden/Aussie mix on a supplement and I wanted to ask your opinion. I saw your post about recommending Wellytails, Nature’s Logic, and Dr. Harvey’s, but I will need to order them since they are not available locally. I saw a supplement at my local pet store called LM Farms Nutrition Booster. Do you know if this supplement would be a good one to use? Thank you for all your time and help!

    #22947 Report Abuse
    Sue’s Zoo
    Member

    As much as I would love to feed all RAW, my puppy (and the next one we plan to get this fall) would end up costing about $800 a month on Primal when they’re only half grown!! That’s based on Primal’s feeding calculator on their webpage.

    50lb puppy eating anything but beef requires a minimum of 14lbs/week (beef is 10lb/week). Best pricing is at PetFoodDirect averages approximately $40/6lb bag. So about $100/week! And that’s for one dog that’s only half grown.

    Am I calculating something incorrectly??

    Definitely will have to combine with kibble. But then I am totally confused about how much to feed! Please help!!

    #22951 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Primal is an expensive way to go. Why don’t you look at getting some grinds from Hare Today or My Pet Carnivore and just giving about a half or quarter pound a day of raw mixed in with their kibble. Their grinds have good calcium:phosphorus ratios, so you don’t need to worry about that and as long as the grinds don’t make up a huge protion of their daily food, that is the only thing you need to worry about the balance on. That way they can have some of the benefits of raw without quite so much expense.

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