[Linda M]

I have a 14 y/o bRat Terrier whose has been on Stella & Chewy’s frozen patties since late last summer. Since switching her to raw, her Trygycerides have been rising, but I was alarmed when they doubled on her last blood panel (they are now at 2200). The rest of her blood panel is normal, aside from an elevated Liver ALP (now at 174…but that is down from 600 about 4 years ago, thanks to a daily dose of Denamarin).

Her weight fluctuates between 18 and 20 pounds. She is sedentary for the most part (sleeps most of the day while we are working), but otherwise has tons of energy and always happy to go for walks (thankful that Chicago weather is finally breaking and we can get some exercise again).

She has always had a heart murmur (around a Grade 2 for most of her life)…about 3 years ago we were told it was a 3 borderline 4…last summer she started coughing and the vet told us her murmur was a 4 borderline 5 and she was in the early stages of Congestive Heart Failure. She was put on a daily dose of Enalapril (2.5mg twice per day) and Vetmedin (5 mg. per day split into two doses). That was also when we switched her to a raw diet, and within weeks her cough disappeared. That was last September…at her visit this past week, she no longer shows any signs of CHF and her murmur is now at a 2 borderline 3…the vet is shocked and amazed that her murmur has improved and told us that he wouldn’t believe us if hadn’t seen it for himself…he says murmurs NEVER improve. He is skeptical of the raw food, however, I attribute her improvement to the change in diet more than anything (not to say the meds haven’t helped…I have no doubt they have).

This is a dog who shed like crazy until switching her to Raw – now she barely loses any hair and her coat is thick and shiny. The muscle mass along her spine was deteriorating (you could see her pointy spine bones sticking up along her back) and she was developing spondylosis…with a “clicking” sound that you could also feel along her spine. After a month on raw, her bones no longer protruded through her back and now she can once again race up & down the stairs and on the furniture (to my dismay)…the clicking is gone. Raw had done wonders for her health, and I’m sold on it being the best for her.

She is, however, sensitive to birds…no chicken, duck, pheasant or we start dealing with itching along her lips and paws that quickly devolves into infections. We have been rotating her on beef, venison, lamb & rabbit (tho I have my concerns about the rabbit being an issue with her lip…so lately I’ve avoided feeding it to her).

She is fed strictly 2 1/2 small patties of Stella & Chewy’s twice per day, 12 hrs apart…and her only treats are carrot chips. I keep a bag of Taste of the Wild Lamb on hand…I leave handfuls of them in her bowl to eat at her leisure if she get’s hungry between meals, but she rarely touches it (unless I’m late with a feeding).

Because of her high triglycerides, my vet would like to get her onto a lower fat diet. He suggested kibbles & prescription kibbles…but I will not go down that road again…Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein nearly brought her to the brink of a malnourished death prior to Raw…no way I will go back.

So…any suggestions on how to lower the fat content while still keeping her on raw and not feeding any “crap” foods?

My working theory is to use SOJOS grain-free fruit & veggie mix (the kind you rehydrate with water) and combine that with 1 Stella & Chewys patty per day (half 1.5 oz patty at each feeding). I am having a difficult time working out how much of each to feed her while keeping the fat under 15%, the protein and fiber in a higher range, and the calorie amounts appropriate for her size/age & slower-pace lifestyle. Would love to see all of her blood panel numbers in the normal range at her next test…not just for her sake, but to prove to the vet how beneficial this raw diet has been.

ANY suggestions or help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

• This topic was modified 11 years ago by Linda M.
• This topic was modified 11 years ago by Linda M.

[Dori]

Riley and Molly. If she is your only dog then there is no reason why you could not afford to feed her a good quality commercial raw diet. I have a Maltese, a Maltipoo and a Yorkipoo. They have all been on a rotation of commercial raw diets for the past three years and all are doing phenomenally well. A toy or small breed dog does not need a different diet or food than a regular dog other than a large breed dog puppy that needs less calcium in its growing years.

[Chrissy L]

Hello,
I have a 3yr 120lb Great Dane and a 4yr 8lb Chihuahua, I am wanting to wade into raw feeding instead of jumping headlong, because I’m not sure my dane will like it. He is a bit picky but he has started eating non-food items so the vet said he is lacking something in his diet. I do have access to a butcher, but not game meat. And I dont know what bones are ok for one dog and not the other. I also would rather not feed commercial if possible, I am a stay at home mom and so I have the time to put into whatever prep is needed.

Thanks

[Akari_32]

The problem with feeding a cat dog food is that dog food typically lacks taurine, which is essential for cats. And the problem with feeding chunked canned foods is that they are very (*very*) high in carbs. Carbs are hard on a cats system, because they aren’t meant to digest them, and they take a lot of water for their bodies to break down. Not to mention, they are the cause of tartar build up on the teeth, with out regular brushing. I do include some chunky style canned foods in my cats rotation, yes, but they do not make any significant portion of his diet.

I’m actually finding a raw diet is cheaper than even using coupons to get super good deals on premium brands. With raw, you want to use lots of dark and red meats and hearts because they are high in fat and taurine. Dark meat chicken is cheap, usually about $1 a pound, pork is around $2.50 a pound, and many cuts go on fantastic sales for $1 a pound. Large pieces of meat and chicken bone are great for dental health. He also eats much less on raw than canned. On canned he normally gets about 9 oz. On raw, he eats 6 oz.

[Akari_32]

Guys. I was looking back through the thread, and it’s been a year since I brought Kitty home!! :O this calls for celebration! I think I’ll get him lamb for his next raw meal :3

Speaking of raw, I’ve got an order of 8oz Reditainers on the way from Amazon! Right now, he’s getting 6oz of canned and 6oz of raw, rotating days. He’ll get either Fancy Feast, Wellness Duos or Wellness Sliced/Minced/Cubed (2x 3oz cans) one day, a 5.5oz can of Friskies Special Diet (randomly replaced with Newmans Own, and a couple other brands) another day, 6oz of balanced raw the next, and then another 5.5oz can the next day, and then it starts all over again. I opted to pull the better brands (Halo Vigor, Halo Impulse, and Natures Variety) out and save them for if I ever go away and whoever watches him cannot do raw. There’s probably 8 cans, none of them expiring until sometime in 2016 (I wrote all the expiration dates down on the tops of the cans). Once the rest of the canned is gone, he will be on 100% raw! I’ve got something like 50 days of canned left, so it’ll be a while, but I’m very happy with his coat and teeth improvements with raw only being a few times a week 🙂 Can’t wait till I’ve used all the canned up 😀

[Dori]

I should first inform you Jennifer that I am a commercial raw feeder so I wouldn’t cook, warm up or microwave any food I’m feeding my three dogs. But as Sandy has stated, and she would know better than I would, if bones are truly finely ground up then I guess you could cook them or warm them up in your microwave which is basically cooking them. That, to me, basically negates the reason for feeding a commercial or home raw diet.

I didn’t see the mention of AAFCO though I’m glad you did. I found their site a bit time consuming and not particularly easy to get around. I do have a problem in that their food is as inexpensive as it is and that shipping is free. Though I live in Georgia, not anywhere near their manufacturing plant, they say than can FedX my orders free of charge over night. As I said earlier, something just seems off to me but I’m not sure what. I’m going to call the company tomorrow and get some answers to some questions I have and I’ll post back here.

It also concerned me where it was mentioned the amount of fat in the calorie count. I really do need a review of this food from Dr. Mike and his team before I would ever feed it to my dogs.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.

[Dori]

I’ve never heard of Allprovide Raw. Think I’ll wait until Dr. Mike and his team review the food and what thoughts they have, if any, on the company itself. I would be interested if, indeed, it is on DFA’s list of foods to be reviewed. I’ll wait.

Aquariangt: There’s no mention of GA on the site and also no mention of AAFCO either. Not that I don’t have foods in rotation that aren’t AAFCO compliant I just find it odd that they don’t even allude to it. I can’t, with comfort, feed a diet that at bare minimum doesn’t have a GA anywhere on the site unless we’re all missing it. Like you said, weirds me out too. Something seems off to me, obviously I could be wrong.

Jennifer H: Please give us an update once you’ve received the food and have fed it for a while. Thanks much!

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.

[Jennifer H]

Wow I really love the ingredients in that food. I think it looks really good, but I’d like to know the dry matter % of fat to make sure they aren’t getting most of their meat from fatty cuttings.

I don’t like that it’s in 1lb pouches, as that could be a pain to portion for smaller dogs, but that probably cuts costs for them.

The site kind of sucks though, and I’m having difficulty estimating shipping (it keeps telling me free, which I know can’t be right. Also 50% off your first order holy smokes!)

I have no issue feeding vegetables to my dog so long as they are properly processed. Personally I think farmed meats lack some nutrition, and that it can be quite difficult to fully balance a diet with just meat/bone.

I feed my dog a homemade raw diet, but he’s so small (12lbs) it can be difficult to balance. I’m considering switching to a rotational commercial raw diet with a few RMBs a week.

Would love more info on this product 🙂

[Dori]

Hi John. Just saw your post here and I’d like to reply and help if I can.

Nope, it wasn’t me that suggested that you keep your dogs on the same protein. That’s totally against what I do or would recommend. I may not have explained things correctly. What I had said is that I would suggest that you find a few different (proteins) that your dogs do well on and rotate within the brand if, in fact, there are different proteins in that brand that you can feed. Also find other brands with proteins you dogs do well on and rotate within all the brands all the proteins that your dogs can eat. Rotate proteins and brands. It is never, in my opinion and the way I feed, a good idea to keep a dog long term on any one protein and on any one brand.

I can’t comment on the Acana line or any dry food as I’ve mentioned before. My allergy, intolerant girl can actually eat Nature’s Logic kibble but only the dry and only the sardine formula and only in my way of rotating which is often.

Other foods I thought you might want to consider to add into their diets are Nature’s Variety Instinct Freeze Dried Lamb (doesn’t contain any poultry, fowl, or beef)

Nature’s Variety Limited Instinct Kibble Rabbit or Lamb.

Stella and Chewy’s Freeze Dried. They have a rabbit, a lamb and also a venison formula. None of which contain beef or fowl of any sort.

I think adding freeze dried to their diets in rotation would be a little more cost effective with the kibbles you’ll be feeding because this way, at least, they’ll be getting some of the benefits of raw on occasion. The other is that if freeze dried is too expensive as their entire diet in rotation you might consider rotating through the freeze dried foods that I mentioned and use them just as their treats. You’ll be sure they’re getting healthy treats and they’ll benefit health wise and you don’t have to worry about what’s in the commercial “treats” which usually contain something dogs with food intolerances have issues with. I hope this has helped. Sorry, but I hadn’t realized that you were on the road 9 months of the year. Hopefully when you stationary from time to time if your room has a fridge with small freezer you may be able to just buy small bags of raw frozen to add into their diets. Nature’s Variety Instinct is sold in most, if not all, Petco and Petsmarts and they seem to be everywhere in the country. I love that you travel with your dogs and that they are a priority in our lives. Yes, we are all rather companion animal obsessed (or most of us are) and we like it that way. So, never fear, you’re not in the minority in the world of dogs and your wanting to do the very best you can for them. I’m pretty sure it would be a safe bet that most of us dog obsessed people on this site feed our dogs healthier diets that we do ourselves and our families. I’ve been known to do a McDonald’s drive thru from time to time for myself and my husband yet would rather die than feed my dogs any low quality garbage dog food. They become our children and, as such, we commit ourselves to their health and welfare. As typical parents, we usually put ourselves last. In my opinion that’s a good thing. They can’t choose what they eat, we do it for them so we should try to do the best for them. It’s the least we can do for them when you consider all they give us in return.

[John P]

Update: First, I want to thank everyone again for your thorough, prompt, and caring responses. I’ve tried to browse the forum to see if I could help anyone as you’ve helped me. So far, I haven’t found any topic that I feel I am qualified to give an educated opinion, but I will check back regularly.

Back to Iggy and Bella – I have had the luxury of feeding a mostly raw diet in this “detox” or “transition” phase only because this is the off-season for my business. In a few weeks, my dogs and I will begin our regular business road trips across the country (I could fly, but I would never crate my dogs in the cargo bay unless absolutely necessary). I travel with my dogs because I don’t want to be without them for extended periods of time, and I know most boarders won’t (and often can’t) provide the love, care, and attention that my dogs get from me (and that I feel they need and deserve). I tell you all this only because our transient lifestyle for nine months out of the year necessitates a dry dog food/kibble. That is why I have taken all of your excellent advice and focused my research and attention on dry dog foods.

Right now, I have found three highly rated dry dog foods with three distinct proteins that I plan to begin introducing into their diets. Here they are:
• Acana Singles Pork and Butternut Squash Dry Dog Food
•. Acana Singles Lamb and Apple Dry Dog Food
•. Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Rabbit Meal Dry Dog Food

Ideally, I would like to add at least one more food with at least one more single distinct protein to keep in the rotation, although I’m having trouble sorting through all the options to find anything suitable. I know both Iggy and Bella tolerate venison because they did well on the small bag of the Sweet Potato and Venison dog food I bought from that hack brand when I was desperate to switch and couldn’t find anything better at my local PetCo. They also do well with the raw venison that I get from my dad and brothers (they are hunters and have freezers full of the stuff). However, I can’t find any highly-rated venison food that isn’t fortified with fowl or beef (or both). If someone could give me a suggestion on a single-protein venison food, I would greatly appreciate it. Considering they will be getting this food in a rotation with other highly recommended foods, I think it would be acceptable for this venison food to have a lower protein count (correct me if I’m wrong – I’m just guessing). Alternatively, if you know of another protein that is not fowl, fish, beef, bison, or the proteins listed above, I could really use that help too. I’m afraid if one or more of these options don’t work out, which is quite possible, I’ll be going back to the drawing board and coming back begging for more help. Haha!

I believe it was Dori who suggested (or possibly impied) that I should at least consider using multiple foods with the same protein for the sake of variety if I am unable to find a suitable number of distinct proteins. If I must go that route, suggestions on single-protein dry dog foods (or, I suppose, dry dog foods with a mix of these proteins, although I find that highly doubtable) that I should try within these limits would also be very helpful, especially as I prepare logs and attempt to rule out sensitivities that might not be protein-related.

I have some excellent news, too! I have found a locally-owned pet store that is only an hour’s drive from my house. Their prices are significantly cheaper than sites like Chewy and Wag. Per 25-pound bag of premium dog food brands like Acana, I can save an average of $20 to $25. Also, they offered to order any food they don’t carry with no minimum quantities per order and no special order fee. They staff is friendly, knowledgeable, and extremely helpful. They even told me about this website before I had a chance to tell them that this is where I had done my research. I’ll never give PetCo or PetsMart my business again!

Thank you again. I am glad that I joined this online family of pet lovers. Among my friends and family, my dedication to my pets is often derided as obsessive, and my investment in their health is deemed wasteful. This community understands the relationship I have with Iggy and Bella, and I would go so far as to say that you encourage it. I look forward to hearing any additional help that any of you might have to offer, and I especially look forward to contributing my experiences to help others in the future.

[Akari_32]

I’ve never even heard of that brand. Just looked it up, and what concerns me is how cheap it is. Makes me wonder how they source their meat. Could be 4D meat, or something like that. Seems a bit strange for a premade raw diet to be so inexpensive. However, they could just have a really good relationship with local farms and ranches. Who knows for sure, with out actually contacting them and asking where they source their meat from.

That said, dogs don’t need veggies in their diets. They simply lack the ability to fully digest plant matter. It’s not very expensive at all to do a home made, balanced, prey model diet, of 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other organs. Pretty comparable to the price of a good kibble, and usually a bit cheaper when there are good deals. I use the Raw Dog app for iPhone to help me calculate it all, however, I do not balance every since day like the app does, but over a few days. The dog I’m feeding is so small it would be nearly impossible to give him such a small amount of bone and organ every day lol

Raw helped my yeasty dog a lot. Unfortunately, a good deal of his allergies are environmental as well, so he is not 100%, but is still doing much better on raw than he was on any kibble I ever tried him on. The thing with yeast is you don’t want to give it any fuel, which is carbs. Carbs are found in veggies and plant products, which Allprovide has. It’s best to just make your own diet if your dog have yeast problems. There are several groups on FaceBook that are really great resources for beginners, such as Raw Feeding Community, Prey Model Raw (PMR) for Dogs, and Raw Feeding FRIENDS. You should definitely check them out 🙂

[SdianeM M]

I have been researching a lot and it sounds as though a raw diet would help my pup with yeast issues.

The owner of Allprovide dog food graciously sent me out a sample of his food that he is selling that can be served raw or cooked.

Has anyone looked into this food? The owner mentioned that his product is on the list to be tested by Dog Advisor; however, it will take some time.

[Laura C]

hey Laurel…I’ve learned alot in my research of seizures. Besides rosemary…dogs with seizures need not only grain free, but also low carb, which includes ALL potatoes. A raw diet is best for these dogs…Dr. karen Becker (google her) has a lot of info regarding raw. As far as commercial food, a good one is Orijen Regional Red…it is high protein, moderate fat and low carb.

Shoot me an email if you have more questions…I have a hard time coming to this site with my work hours.

Laura.conover@cardinalhealth.com

[aquariangt]

Welcome to DFA! First and very foremost, I want to see puppy pictures ASAP

Wellness and Nature’s Variety are personally the only foods that you listed that I would feed. As far as price goes, the Nature’s Variety Instinct will be cheaper than the raw boost as well, but still all are less than Orijen. Acana is more reasonable.

Where are you shopping? From the list you posted, I’d guess PetSmart or PetCo? Wellness CORE and NVI are the two best brands there probably, though at Petsmart they also have Nulo which is nice, and Simply Nourish Source-which I’ve used but I’ve heard a few things about some of their storage issues lately, its been a while since i’ve used that at all. There is also Freshet and Nature’s Variety Raw there if you were interested in going that direction however, Champion foods would probably be cheaper.

Now, on to other stores:

Fromm Gold Puppy i like a lot, and they just came out with Fromm Gold Grain Free. Fromm 4Star Grain Free is also suitable for all life stages-my most recommended and favorite brand.

Earthborn’s Grain Free line is all life stages and I like that a lot as well.

Go! Has a nice puppy food as well. Victor as well. There are many others that are great, just a few i like.

I would start with getting a bag of pro plan, whichever the breeder is on. Feed at least a week if not two of just that, don’t mix anything. Let the puppy get acclimated to your house and you. After a few weeks, start mixing in something new. After that, transition to yet another brand/protein. With puppies, if you start them on a rotational diet, they will be able to transition cold turkey in not too long, which is great, as a rotational diet is the best way to go.

[Akari_32]

I’m just glad that Dweezle eats less than half of what dogs his size are supposed to eat! Haley eats about “right,” but only because she has such a high metabolism, which I’m guessing is because she was never spayed. It’s finally slowing down, I think, though, considering she was just putting on weight while on a diet food LOL (Wellness Healthy Weight). She’s never been a big eater anyways, so the less food I can feed her, the better her tummy feels.

Wow, your guys eat less than Bentley and the cat do… LOL Bentley gets 3.5-4 oz a day, and the cat gets 6 oz on the days he gets raw.

Yeah, I mix it all rather evenly for them. If they were younger and hadn’t grown up on Dog Chow for 9 years before I finally was able to take full control of their diet, I’d just go through the small bags a brand at a time, since I only pick up a few bags of each at a time anyways. But I don’t want to switch them around more than every couple weeks, so I just mix up a big batch of various foods, and give them a couple days transition, with their old food on top of the new food.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Nate-
The good news is that Struvite crystals are dissolvable. The other types are not. The bad news is that Hill’s Science diet has been proven to dissolve them. The Hill’s s/d is to be fed only short term to dissolve them and the c/d can be fed long term to prevent them. My cat had Struvite crystals as well and I wish that I had fed the Hill’s when I suspected a problem. It may have saved him from a blockage.

While that is much less likely to happen to a dog, they still may be painful for him because they are sharp little suckers. You want to feed as much moisture as possible to flush them out, so getting the fountain was a great start. I would also try to feed as much canned or raw food as possible. Dry kibble is not the best option.
Another helpful bit advice that I’ve learned is that feeding smaller meals more often per day helps to keep the pH more steady. I now feed him 3 times per day. Also try to keep the dog’s stress level as low as possible. I think that was one of my cat’s biggest issues. We had a lot of changes in our household. Our son moved home, we stopped kenneling the dogs in the house, his litter boxes got moved and to top it off, I switched brands of litter! Does your dog have anxiety or had some changes lately? Did you have a urinalysis because you suspected something or was it routine?
After my episode, I would definitely follow the vet’s advice and use the Hill’s to dissolve the crystals and then go from there. After using it for a month, Casper’s crystals are gone, there is no blood or infection. It has been four months now and I am slowly weaning him off the prescription food. But I still feed mostly canned. His ordeal almost killed him so I’m being very careful!
So in conclusion, 1. Dissolve the crystals with the Rx food 2. Moisture, moisture, and more moisture, 3. Small frequent meals and 4. Reduce stress as much as possible. Then maybe you can start to use those supplements rather than the yucky food. And I do agree it seems yucky, but it did work for my cat who is lucky to be alive! Anyway, you will get other ideas as well. But that is my two cents. Good luck!

[Dori]

Hi Melissa.

I don’t know the sizes of your dogs so I don’t know if it would be cost prohibitive for you but I have three toy dogs and I feed them all commercial raw food diets. Twice a day. I also rotate commercial raw foods and they have not missed a meal in the three years that I have been feeding them commercial raw foods. Just a thought.

[Dori]

Hi John. Firstly I just wanted to post about Marie’s suggestions. She want be upset with me as she’s a friend of mine and is fabulous at helping others with their canines.

California Naturals does have a Kangaroo grain free but the protein is incredibly low. 21 % to AAFCO standards.

Natures Logic Rabbit contains turkey meal, chicken fat, chicken liver, dried egg product and egg shells (for calcium).

Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance (their grain free line) is freeze dried food. Their foods that do not have any poultry or beef are: Rabbit, Goat and Lamb. (Be forewarned…fairly large poops on Grandma Lucy’s but it does have a good reputation with a lot of feeders).

On to the questions you just asked of me. Since you are already feeding your dogs a raw diet, transitioning to a commercial raw diet will be very easy for you and your dogs if, in fact, that is the route you want to take. Transitioning to raw is much simpler and quicker especially with dogs that are already eating raw. Also because you already feed grain free that will make it a bit easier as their guts are in better and healthier conditions than dogs fed their entire lives on foods that contain massive amounts of carbs and lower quality foods. Now, I’m assuming at this point that the only known allergens are poultry and beef. I would stay away from any and all poultry (all fowl….anything with feathers). Since you say that Bella reacted violently to Bison after only a few hours you’ll be able to tell fairly quickly if a new food is going to bother her. Typically when I first started out with rotation feeding I could tell within 3 days how Katie was doing on it. If she was going to have loose stools or vomitting, scratching, gas, bad breath and everything else that goes along with food sensitivities it would happen fairly quickly so I stopped feeding that food and went on to the next. In your case I would probably tell you to start with one food and if they do well on it then feed only that food for two or three months just to give their guts a bit more healing time and “detoxing” as it’s called. At that time you will already have bought the next food you want to try within that brand if there is another protein without any allergens that your dogs may have. If that brand doesn’t, then move on to the next brand. If all goes well I would then feed that food and start looking for the next protein within that brand you want to try. Every time you are done with one bag you move on to the next. Every time with a different protein within the same brand. Keep a detailed list of the foods you have tried and what, if any, reactions they had. Once you’ve exhausted the different proteins in your first brand then you move on to the next brand and start rotating through their proteins that your dogs can eat. Then you move on to the next brand. Before you know it you may be able to have 4 or 5 foods that your dogs can eat and do well on. You can then continue to rotate within these brands and proteins every time you have to buy a bag of food. You can then start rotating with the different foods you have in the freezer every day, every couple of days, every meal as I do, whatever. I rotate as often as I do because Katie can’t tolerate anything for more than a meal or two. She probably can at this point but since I’ve been doing it this way for so long and they’re all just fine with it and because I wouldn’t eat the same thing for breakfast and dinner I figure why should they. I also can’t afford for her to become allergic to anything more than she already is. In rotating foods if some ingredient bothers her a little or there is a pro-inflammatory ingredient in the food (which I try my best to avoid but not always possible) then she’s only getting it for one meal. Rotating foods for all dogs is, in my opinion, the healthiest way to feed canines but especially for canines with food intolerances.

Please keep in mind that the log (list) is very very important. In keeping a list it will also better inform you if your dog is having an issue with the protein or is it another ingredient in the food. If you feed rabbit and Bella has issues with it and then you move on to goat and the same thing happens, then you have to compare the ingredient labels of both those foods and see what other ingredients do both foods have in common other than the protein. When starting to gather foods for dogs with allergies it’s easy to assume that it’s the labeled protein in the food and keep moving from food to food thinking your dog is intolerant of every single protein. Typically that’s not the case. It’s that we forgot that they could be allergic or intolerant of any other ingredient in the foods. So it’s important…..keep a log of foods you feed and the ingredients in the foods. You can print out the ingredient list from their web sites or you can take a picture of the ingredient label on the bag itself for reference purposes.

“Toppers” by the way is just a term that’s used meaning anything that you would put on top of the food you already have in their bowl. I would suggest you not use any of them at all until you have some foods that you can easily feed to your dogs with no allergy symptoms. You’ll confuse the issue if you start adding other things. You won’t know which or what is causing the symptoms. I do add things to my dogs foods but I did not in the beginning. Had to find the foods first. Then started adding little things to see what the affect would be.

Plain Kefir (you can buy it in grocery stores) acts like plain yogurt in that it contains friendly “probiotic” bacteria that helps the gut. I will add here that my allergy girl, Katie, cannot have kefir, yogurt or cheese. Actually I’ve yet to find a probiotic that doesn’t contain something (yeast, or whatever) that she doesn’t have issues with. She’s too intolerant of them and the craziness starts all over again. Not saying that your dogs will react, but owners of dogs with food sensitivities have to be very careful of every single thing that eat. Their immune systems are pretty much in a weakened state especially until their immune system improves on better foods, less toxins and carbs to deal with. 70% of the immune system is in the gut.

Allergy symptoms can be skin issues and/or digestive issues as is the case with Katie. Once I cleared up all her food issues her digestive and skin issues all disappeared.

Once on line please check out all pro-inflammatory foods, fruits and veggies. Allergies are an inflammatory based issue so you need to avoid those foods as best you can. It’s not always easy to eliminate each and every single one but do your best to avoid as much as possible. That’s also a good reason for rotation. If one of your foods does have pro-inflammatory ingredients your dog will not be getting them for too long a time.

If you find, eventually, that your dogs are not allergic to sardines then you can give them sardines packed in water with no salt added (canned in the grocery store) two or three times a week (as a “topper”) on top or mixed in with the food in their bowls. Sardines are an excellent form of Omega 3 which most foods are lacking. Most foods have plenty of Omega 6’s and not enough Omega 3’s to balance them out. That is true most especially in kibble foods. On the days that I don’t give my dogs sardines I keep a bottle refrigerated of Nature’s Logic Sardine oil. Oils go rancid fairly quickly so it’s best kept refrigerated and also says it on the bottle I believe. Anyway, once I’ve put their meals in their bowls, and on the days I don’t add sardines, I splash a little of the sardine oil on top of their food in their bowls and promptly put the bottle back in fridge and immediately give the dogs their bowls of food. I believe the oil has the dosing on the bottle. Please do not give your dogs salmon oil as we already know that they had issues with the salmon food. Also, salmon and tuna have the most amount of mercury in them due to their long lives. I don’t feed either because of those reasons. Sardines and krill have the least as they have very short lives and very short digestive tracks.

Just for your info I realize that I didn’t tell you what type of dogs I have or anything other than Katie’s allergies. So, Hannah (my avatar) is my 15 1/2 year old Maltese. Katie is my 5 1/2 year old Maltipoo and Lola is my 5 1/2 year old Yorkipoo.

One more thing. I no longer have my dogs vaccinated. I do the titers on the core vaccines. Rabies vaccine in my area is only required every three years. Though recently I’ve learned that the county I live in will accept rabies titers. Very few counties in the country are on board with titers for rabies. I don’t believe that any dog should be vaccinated unnecessarily. Dogs with allergies shouldn’t be vaccinated. Of course, I am in favor of doing all the initial puppy vaccinations spaced out as they should be. Each vaccine should be done separately and not the three in one type. It’s too much of an overload on their systems. After those initially puppy shots which, if memory serves me, ends when they are about a year old. After that having your vet do titers to check their antibodies to the core illnesses will let you know when and if they have to be vaccinated again.

[Jon h]

I think the reason you are receiving so much negativity is you are seeming to conform to a lot of the stereotypes of vegetarian feeders (ie: lack of knowledge of canine nutrition, lack of canine medical knowledge, lack any sort of formal nutritional training and yet propose that they know more than their vet and people with PhDs in the field canine nutrition). Vegetarian diets should only be imposed on a dog if there are medical reasons to do so (ie: some sort of allergy) and I personally haven’t read any cases of dogs allergic to all meat sources so I highly doubt that is a legitimate argument in your case. Now if you are switching your dog to a vegetarian diet because of your own moral reasoning or some ill founded notion that vegetarian diets are healthier than diets that include meat then I would strongly reconsider being a dog owner.

Lets take a quick look at your arguments. First (in regards to your dog being obese before), a dog becoming obese is almost always the direct result of an owner not properly managing their dogs caloric intake to activity level ratio. Not because meat was magically making their dog fat. Switching to vegetarian meals most likely significantly reduced the dog’s caloric intake therefore attributing their obesity to meat is a really poor argument. Second, in regards to your dog always being sick. If their sickness was food related your dog may have had an allergy you were not aware of and switching to a vegetarian diet eliminated that allergen. Saying that this means that vegetarian diets are better than diets that include meat is a poor founded conclusion from your observations.

Third (and this one really concerns me), no… coconut water is not some magic fluid that will cure all ailments, to draw the conclusion that coconut water is such a strong medicinal product that it cured your dog overnight is logic I’d expect to see on late night infomercials, not from someone who claims to know more than their vet about canine medicine.

I understand that this doesn’t directly answer the question you originally asked but I am a strong proponent of making medical and nutritional decisions using science and always in the best interest of your dog (even if it goes against something you believe in).

Some of things you’ve said really concern me. At the end of the day if you can’t have a science based discussion with your vet on why you chose a vegetarian diet for your dog then that should be a flashing red light for you that you haven’t done the proper research and don’t have the knowledge/qualification to be making such a drastic change to your dogs nutrition source….

[Naturella]

Hey, Joe, if you’re even still here. Although I entirely second Melissaandcrew’s statement of fact that dogs are carnivores, I just want to throw my 2 cents in there.

First off, PERSONALLY, I would not feed a dog a vegetarian diet. That being said, I also believe that if something “ain’t broke”, it doesn’t need fixing. So if your dogs are doing fine on a vegetarian diet, then hey, it is what seems to work for them… THAT being said, this may be just temporary. Because I don’t feel that a vegetarian diet is species-appropriate (as Melissaandcrew said, herbivores need to eat plant matter, not meat, and it is the total opposite with carnivores, but the same idea), I would not lie to your vet because should an issue arise, it may well be the diet’s fault. If you were feeding, say, balanced raw meat-based diet and your vet did not approve of that, I would probably choose to respectfully not discuss my dog’s nutrition with the vet. But because I see the diet that you feed as deficient in the main thing dogs need – animal protein source in their diet – I would probably put it out there, and as long as your dogs remain healthy, I would respectfully defend it to the vet as a choice of their diet. But definitely disclose it, because there is a risk of the dogs becoming unhealthy down the way should they continue to eat species-inappropriate food.

And we do not mean to bash anyone – on the contrary – I believe that we all do what we perceive as best for our companions. But we can always learn from each other, and we can all do better. Hope this helps.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by Naturella.

[dana i]

Hi! I’ve been reading this forum all day today, but am overwhelmed by all the choices. I’d really love to hear people’s actual experiences and thoughts– what is on paper does not always match what makes the dogs happy and healthy.

I have two lab mix dogs– both rescues.
Diesel is a 1 year old Lab/Shephard mix who has allergies. 65# dog
Dudley is a 1 1/2 year old lab/Greyhound mix who has gas issues when he eats ANYTHING other than the current food… (even treats) 83# dog

They were both given horrible diets before they came to me.
I have them on Science Diet Lamb and Rice Large Breed formula.

At the time, it’s the ONLY thing that I found that helped Diesel’s allergy symptoms (they are completely gone on this food but when I try anything else it comes back) and Dudley’s gas is now a very rare thing on this food.

However, reading it seems that people don’t like this one and that there may be better out there… And the fact that when I went to buy it today I found it went up in price AGAIN. uugh. Maybe now is a good time to switch…

I want what is best for them, with budget kinda on the mind at the same time.

Right now, it takes us 11 days to go through a 33 pound bag of Science Diet Lamb and Rice large breed formula dry food and used to cost us around $45 a bag but did just go up to about $50.

I’d really love to get them something better. Maybe something that also makes their poop a little smaller too? (I know–wishful thinking? LOL)

Any suggestions based on the gas/allergies?
I priced raw diet– which I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to do, but it’s way out of our price range from what I am reading.

I CAN and will supplement a little bit of our cooked food on top (If I can avoid the gas and allergy issues– that will take a little experimenting)….

I have a feed store 1 mile from my house that sells some food but he’s kinda expensive on some items. I also live near Petco, Petsmart and have Amazon prime… I live in Texas, suburb of Dallas if that helps.

Any thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated!

[Pam P]

I know this isn’t food related, but it seems your dog has some serious issues and it might not be all due to food. Pet healthcare is a lot like traditional healthcare or sickness care (as I call it)….it’s big business. Dogs are way over vaccinated, and traditional vaccines have mercury, formaldehyde and other toxic substances that can affect a dog’s health over time. Metal toxicity is a serious issue as they aren’t eliminated from the body. They are stored in the organs and joints. The core vaccines are usually good for life. A titer test can determine the antibody levels. A holistic vet uses vaccines that have no mercury or heavy metals. My holistic vet detoxifies the dog immediately after giving a vaccination. If a dog does need the 3 core vaccines, he does them in 2-3 week intervals so the dog isn’t overloaded all at once. That’s why it’s not a bad idea to do the kefir diet for 30 days or more to detoxify the dog and get all the junk out of their system, and then gradually get them back on a very clean, healthy food. I still give our Mastiff all the oils I mentioned previously; just no kibble or meat. I also give her a tsp of organic turmeric at each feeding. Turmeric is a powerful anti-inflammatory, and there is obviously some serious inflammation going on with your dog. I mix it with the kefir and she downs it. I start with a small amount and build to a tsp each meal. Just like with humans, a detox diet can make them feel worse before they get better; as all the toxins are being released and coming out of the body, the dog can appear worse for a while. I detoxified the Mastiff gradually starting with Nature’s Logic, then raw, then kefir. She’s a senior dog so didn’t want to overload her system. The kidneys and liver are the detoxifying organs so didn’t want to take a chance to overload them. Just some more suggestions.

[deja]

We have a dog recently diagnosed with epilepsy and I’m on the search for a new food because I suspect the one she’s on now contains these preservatives (a prescription Science Diet food). I’ve been finding it very difficult to find definitive information on whether foods use BHA/BHT/Ethoxyquin. I figured people on this website might have more experience/information.

Do you know of dog foods that the company has stated do not contain BHA, BHT, or Ethoxyquin? Either on their websites or through response to email inquiries.

Personally I’m also looking for non-raw food that does not contain rosemary (not easy to find!), and is also not too high in fat (less than 17% preferably). But I think I can narrow those down myself more easily, so I’m mostly looking for help with the preservatives. So far Life’s Abundance is the only one I’ve found that also meets my other requirements. Natural Balance says no BHA/BHT/ethoxyquin as well on their rolled food and some treats, but I can’t find comments on any of their other food.

[Pam P]

I feed my dog Answers fermented raw food and kefir. My son’s Mastiff mix had such itchy skin she had to go on antibiotics for a wound she scratched raw that wouldn’t heal. I started her for one month on Nature’s Logic Sardine. Nature’s Logic is one of a very few that doesn’t use synthetic vitamins and minerals. The synthetic vitamins and minerals come mostly from industrial waste such as coal tar for one. They aren’t good for humans and they aren’t good for pets. She started detoxifying on Nature’s Logic. Then I put her on Answers Fermented Raw food for a month. The itching became less. Now she is on only Kefir for a month and her itching has just about stopped. The kefir is a detox diet. She hasn’t lost weight. Her energy is 300% higher. I’ll see how she does after another 2 weeks to see if we gradually get her back on food or keep her on kefir for another 2 weeks. The key is to clean and detoxify the system and then to make sure the immune system is strengthened. Allergies are an immune system issue. I also give my dogs organic extra virgin coconut oil, sardine oil, pumpkin seed oil, and royal jelly. Royal jelly is excellent for the skin and coat. Its what the queen bee is fed. I learned that from an owner of champion show dogs. I have also given them canned sardines. Frozen sardines can be purchased in bulk online. They have small bones which are loaded with calcium. If I was going to feed kibble, I would lean towards Nature’s Logic or one that doesn’t use synthetic vitamins and minerals. They are a little lower on the meat, so I would add gizzards and some raw meat to it, preferably a balanced frozen meat. There are several to chose from….Nature’s Logic, Primal, Instinct, and others. I hope this gives you some ideas.

[Dori]

Hi John P. First let me say that I’m a commercial raw feeder grain free foods so I’m not going to really be of much help with kibble. I do know that a lot of people on this site consider Acana and Orijen made by Champion to be a quality company. The only kibble that, on rare occasions, I have put in rotation is Nature’s Logic Kibble but only the Sardine. All others contain either some sort of beef or poultry (eggs). One of my dogs has many many food intolerances and sensitivities. The list is quite long so I won’t bore you as they don’t pertain to your dog. But she is highly intolerant of all things poultry which includes all fowl. Below is a partial list of what I feed my three dogs and they all do very well on them, I’ve left out any of the beef that I feed because your dog has an intolerance to beef. I feed all my dogs the same food because of my allergy girl, Katie. I feed a rotational diet so here goes.

OC Raw: Fish & Produce Patties, Lamb Patties, Rabbit Patties, Goat Patties

Primal Raw Formulas and/or Primal Pronto Formulas: Venison Patties, Rabbit Patties

Vital Essentials Raw: Fish Patties, Rabbit Patties

Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw: Venison (also contains lamb), Rabbit (also contains pork)

Stella & Chewy’s Raw: Venison, Lamb, Rabbit
I’m not a great fan of Stella & Chewy’s but will feed it if I’m in a pinch.

Natures Logic Kibble: Sardine (It contains millet which is a pseudo-grain. Katie can’t tolerate grains but for some reason the millet in Nature’s Logic doesn’t seem to bother her. Could be because I feed it so infrequently and never for more than one meal every so often.

I’m an advocate of rotational feeding for my three dogs so I rotate their food pretty much with every meal and don’t feed them the same protein without a three day break in between. It’s the only way I can get around Katie’s food issues. Dogs with allergies should also avoid corn, white potatoes, rice (all), soy. They are all pro-inflammatory so you’re basically feeding the allergies and making things worse. You need to feed non-inflammatory foods and ingredients as best you can. It’s pretty difficult to avoid every single thing all the time but it helps a great deal to do your best.

Hope some of this has helped. I’m sure someone else will chime in soon to help with kibble feeding.

Oops! Don’t forget about checking to see what’s in the treats you give your dogs. For treats I only give pieces of fruits (no grapes) and veggies. No seeds or pits with the fruit please (toxic), I also peel apples and cucumbers. I don’t feed any commercial treats due to grains and too many recalls for my liking. Too many pesticides used on both. Good Luck and if I can answer any questions please ask.

I just wanted to mention that the only fish that Katie cannot eat is salmon. All other fish foods she’s fine with but is very sensitive to salmon.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by Dori.

[John P]

My four-year-old Wheaten Terrier (wheatable really – dominant wheaten mix) has serious allergies, skin issues, and food sensitives to most grains and several proteins. He started on a poultry-based food (Organix) but became sensitive after two years. After trial-and-error and an allergy test, we switched to a fish-based food (Natural Mix). However, recently he has become sensitive to it. I am desperate to find a food with a new protein. It breaks my heart to watch him itch and scratch all day. My vet is wonderful, but beyond sending me to this site, she is as desperate as I am.

Right now, I’m feeding him a raw diet consisting mainly of quality meat leftovers I buy from the butcher (pork and venison, mainly), but I can’t afford to do that much longer. I subscribed to the Editor’s Choice, but almost every food is poultry-based or enriched with poultry meals. I noticed Acana foods might have some alternative proteins (such as pork). Does anyone have experience with them?

I know he is definitely allergic to most red meats, including beef and bison. The poultry-based food he ate contained turkey and chicken. The fish-based food he ate contained salmon. He has never had any issues with pork or venison. I am wondering if someone might have experience with a dog who became intolerant of one poultry protein but could tolerate another (say I could try switching him to duck or pheasant)?

Otherwise, do any of you have favorite foods containing pork, venison, rabbit, or lamb? Do you have any other protein recommendations? Do you have any other suggestions period?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.

Best,

John

[Susan]

I think Laleah should give the limited ingredient Natural Balance a go, it may just work for her little dog….Why I mentioned IBD as its a inflammatory disease like skin allergies…sometimes dogs will have both illnesses like Patch has, once your fix their diet you fix everything..
Some dogs that have skin problems the NB Kangaroo & Potatoes or the Duck & Rabbit limited ingredients works great for their dogs & clears their skin problems up, just cause it has low protein it gets a lower star rating…… Every dog is different with their skin problems, what works for your dog will not work for my dog (Raw)….. Patch does not eat NB he can’t eat potatoes gets real bad Colitis…
I’m sick of Marie always having a go at my post, she has done it for 2 year now, I’ve had enough…..if I see something that I don’t agree with or a mistake or what ever, I just MIND my own business & move on….maybe take your dogs out for a nice long walk & smell the beautiful flowers….
Have a nice day…

[Dori]

Weezerweeks. Freeze dried that I have fed and will continue with in rotation with commercial raw diets are Primal, Vital Essentials, Natures Variety, Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance. Fair warning though…Grandma Lucy’s seems to produce larger stools. I think it has more fiber than the others, also I can’t discern any ingredients in their poop for that food. The girls do really well on all these freeze dried foods. I’ve tried others but I didn’t care for them. The girls ate them but, then again, they’ll eat everything. The only food Hannah has ever turned down in her entire life and just would not eat was Dr. Harvey’s Oracle Tripe. Which was funny because she loves their tripe treats. She liked the tripe bits (treats) in the food but not the food itself.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Sandra,
Why the correlation between what you cooked and the vomiting? Could have been a virus the poodle got from walking and sniffing something, maybe because of the age his/her system is changing,and possibly something in your home cooked meal doesn’t agree with him/her anymore. Is the poodle off the meds? You say he still feels bad,all day only after meals?
If after meals you mast have to go bland very bland boiled beef with a cooked sweet potato or plain canned pumpkin NOT THE PIE FILLING. If inflammation is brewing stay away from boiled rice. Please don’t get me started on vets and nutrition, if your daughter goes back i guarantee it will be suggested a veterinary diet be purchased.
I know my older fur-kid went through the same thing in Dec started throwing up every day after eating she can’t tolerate kibble anymore started her on the honest kitchen dehydrated food and commercial raw -big difference so far.
It’s all a process of elimination and that sad to say means no treats either until you can get to the bottom of the problem,BLAND BLAND for a few weeks then slowly very slowly introduce 1 thing at a time. Kibble may be to hard on the puppy’s system.

[Susan]

Hi sounds like your girl has IBD, I read on a link now I cant find it, it said you shouldn’t give dogs enzymes especially if they have a healthy gut, there 2 types of enzymes the plant enzymes or Porcine enzymes….I’d stop the kibble, my boy has IBD & has so many problems with kibbles, just finished trying another kibble & he was sooooo ill, bad acid reflux, now has a real sore throat from the acid reflux, vet wants him on just Turkey breast mince mix in 1 raw egg, then I make about 4 loaves & put on a baking tray & bake 20mins…just for 4-6 weeks to give his stomach a rest, I freeze section & also boil sweet potato boil pumkin & freeze, I boil some Quinoa as its gluten free,….he has stop scatching & his red paws have gone & the red under his chin has gone… I’m finding Patch needs a gluten free diet & has real bad food allergies that has caused his IBD & Colitis when he eats something that he’s allergic too, he has his bloody poos cause the food is irritating his bowel..look up gluten free & low residue foods & stick with those foods also don’t rotate too many foods as you wont know what is causing the itchy skin….
I have found foods that agrees with him & give for breakfast & dinner & something else that agrees with him for lunch & a late dinner, he has 4 small meals thru the day, we found this works best for Patch. also use Malaseb medicated shampoo I found to be the best…. Patch does not take any heartworm meds, he cant take any worm meds only Milbemax all wormer every 6months & I dread the day its due he eats grass the next day & feels sick all day but doesnt have diarrhea on the Milbemax, vet said its very mild, Patch can not use Advantage flea spot on… only Frontline plus, as Frontline only penetrates 2 layers of the skin, where other flea spot ons penetrate thru into their blood, Patch nilly died from Advantage…you name it Patch cannot take it, its all to do with his IBD…..
So I have learnt LESS IS BEST….

[Susan]

Hi again, here’s a link for a grainfree gluten free diets
http://www.holvet.net/raw_pet_diet.html

[Susan]

Hi, do you have the time to cook, I have Patch on Turkey Breast mince 1 kilo mix in 1 raw egg then I get a baking tray & make about 4 turkey loaf put in the oven & its ready in 20mins, then I cool & freeze, I also boil sweet potatoes & pumkin & freeze, I put in a blender & blend… to 1 cup I add 1 spoon no fat greek yogurt, Patch has stopped his scratching & red paws & red chin have all gone & he’s only been on the turkey breast mix for 1 week.. vet said to feed this diet 4- 6 weeks until I can find something that will agree with him, she said it wont hurt that its not balanced, its only for 1 month……now I’m looking at a brand called “Sunday Pets” its a New Zealand brand biscuits they look like a weet bix, but are smaller bits that u break in half, they are for dogs with skin problems & for dogs that don’t chew their kibble & gulp… I got a sample & Patch went nuts when he smelt the biscuits.. I’m trying the Deliganics cause they have only 5% fat, Patch needs a low fat diet cause of his stomach problems…
http://www.sundaypets.com/tasty-holistic-grain-free

[james y]

Hello newb here looking for a little info.

First a little background
My 9 month old pitbull, maple has recently been having problems. She undoubtedly had worms and was scratching alot and losing hair. At first i was feeding her purina dog chow and she was doing fine. Then the wife brought home pedigree and thats when the hair loss started. So i instantly thought the dog had mange and began treating her for it. I also read that a raw diet would boost the immune system so i did that too. I fed her venison mostly, with raw eggs and gave her vitamins everyday. She cleared up and we started back with the unused portion of pedigree. Well she broke out in hives!

Ok so the dog is allergic to dog food…just my luck. A vet friend told me to try bil-jac frozen food so i did for a couple weeks. She was doing great on it! we got rid of the worms and shes putting on wieght and her coat is awesome! Although the frozen food isnt very convenient so i just googled best grain free dog food and found this site. I came across a name i recognized “blue buffalo” and this very site said it wss a five star food. So i purchased 20 pounds of the grain free wilderness red meat puppy food. It was pretty pricey, as a matter of fact i figure i could buy hamburger for $3 a pound but its so much easier than having to refrigerate or prepare raw food.

2 days into feeding and she seems to be doing just fine. I dont monitor poo, so i cant say anything about it.

Anyhow now im seeing all this bad stuff on the web about blue dog food….and something about a lawsuit with purina?? Is there any truth to these claims about the food hurting dogs or is it maybe a bunch of hired posters or something? If the stuff wasnt $60 a bag i would just throw it out and go back to the biljac.

[crazy4cats]

I was going by this that was posted in the Whole Dog Journal:
Here are my sardine recommendations for adult dogs. Feed twice this much to puppies and pregnant or lactating females.

Dog’s 3.75-oz can
Weight sardines
5 lbs 1/4 can per week
15 lbs 1/2 can per week
25 lbs 5/8 can per week
50 lbs 1 can per week
100 lbs 1 3/4 cans per week

A 3.75-ounce can of sardines has about 200 calories, so reduce the amount of dry food given on “sardine days” accordingly. Rule of thumb: One can of sardines in water has about the same number of calories as ½ cup of most dog foods.

You can substitute canned wild Alaska pink salmon (the bones are edible), oysters (a great source of zinc, especially important for pregnant and lactating females), and other fresh, frozen, or canned wild ocean fish for sardines. Pacific oysters are probably better than Gulf of Mexico oysters, especially after the BP oil spill in 2010, and safer than canned oysters from China. Never feed raw salmon or trout, especially Pacific salmon, because it may contain a bacterium that can kill dogs.
But…. now, I’ve pulled up my ABC diet and it does show two cans per week. So how about 1 1/2! LOL!

Here is the link to the whole dog journal: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html

Either way, it is great that you are considering adding them to your dog’s food. Good luck!

[pugmomsandy]

I’m fortunate enough to have 3 dogs and no UTI’s the past 7 years. I feed a high moisture diet (raw and canned), never just plain dry kibble. I also give a bladder supplement with cranberry and d-mannose (and other herbs) and I give probiotics. I also used to monitor my dogs’ urine pH using home pH test strips. Hopefully someone who’s actually dealt with UTI’s will give some input.

http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/bladder-health-for-pets/

https://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/struvites-crystals-urinary-tract-infections-treatment-and-diet/

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/10/22/these-3-things-may-indicate-your-pet-has-a-bladder-problem.aspx

http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html

[Aspen A]

Lovx3, I am with Steve’s Real Food, a raw pet food company. The Atwater figures are not particularly helpful, and you will always want to compare dog foods using a dry matter comparison. The reason for this is that as different products contain different moisture levels, it can skew the results. Usually pet food companies will use the at water comparison because they want their numbers to look better, so you need to ask them for the dry matter comparison. It sounds like Naturella is doing a great job, and I can give a second opinion in favor of much of what she/he said. I would also recommend that you consider going to a raw diet, as it is much more in line with how your dog is genetically designed to process food. Adding water and mixing with canned is a great start, and definitely better on your dog’s intestines and ability to digest kibble than just giving straight dry, but raw is best!

[Aspen A]

Hi, Carol, I am with Steve’s Real Food (a raw pet food company, so you have full disclosure). I just looked up the Miracle Dog food, but I am not seeing enough specifics about which grains and minerals are in it to speak to whether they are the best fit for your pet. If you are worried about the nutrition balance you may want to go to a frozen raw food, there are some great ones out there (Steve’s included) that do the math and nutrition for you, including the fat content, etc. Pork and beef are going to be higher in fat, if you are wanting low fat sticking to chicken and turkey is going to be best. What is wrong with your dog’s pancrease? Is it pancreatitis? Natural Dog Health Remedies.com (no affiliation) recommends Milk Thistle, Yarrow Root, Echinacea, dandelion, and probiotics, if that helps. I would not recommend switching them to dry food. It is so much harder on the stomach, and harder to digest, it makes them more thirsty, etc. If you are looking to improve their diet I would definitely recommend going to a more raw diet rather than a dry diet, that is just a step back, in my opinion.

[Aspen A]

Hi, Weezerweeks, I am with Steve’s Real Food (for full disclosure). It sounds like you have some great customer service going on with Dr. Harvey. If you are worried about how much water your pup is drinking you may want to look into a completely raw diet. The whole point of freeze dried foods is that they remove all the water from the diet so it can preserve well, which does mean your dog will drink more when using it. Diets that are straight, raw meat are the best for your pup and have enough water in them naturally that dogs actually tend to drink less, not more. You will want to ask about the mineral content, the percentage of sodium, and then compare it to the other foods in your rotation to see if there is a difference.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

HI Dori,
So glad to hear from you and overjoyed all is well with your husband. Couldn’t ask for better news.
Well here at schnauzerville we are dealing with something that worries me and I am reaching out to all.
My pepper the almost 12 y.o. is going into a semi-heat if that is possible -no bleeding but (excuse me all for being so descriptive) her vagina looks swollen I am so fearful of pyometra, what are the signs ,how do i know, should I take her to the vet?? Eating, drinking ,walking aok.
Millie has stopped her bleeding after 3 weeks ,she is still swollen . My first foray with females -Pepper was never spayed her horrible original guardians treated her badly, never took her to a vet, at her advanced age spaying is not an option with her other health issues.
Any advice Dori
i am so worried about my angel Pepper
as for THK yes we are keeping it in and even with the grain free protein inclusive line I still notice pieces of undigested veggies, emailed them they never replied.
We are about to finish the natures variety instinct raw duck a bit hit with pepper and Millie,
Next I think I will try either the primal turkey and sardine or the OCraw-we really are becoming the adventurous schnauzers here at schnauzerville.
Take care & Dori so happy again to hear the good news!! Celebrate

We are on diets here lunch is various cooked veggies Millies face is a riot but she is way too heavy at 16 lbs

• This reply was modified 11 years, 1 month ago by Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie.

[Dori]

Aimee.
Sorry, I must learn to thoroughly read original posts. I sometimes skim read and I just focused on the part of the dog having stones. I thought he was asking for help with a diet for a dog that has or had stones.

Tom. I agree with you completely on the ingredients in the foods that vets prescribe. I understand that there may be some animals out there that will benefit from them but I’ve had many dogs in my life and have never come across one of them needing one of those diets. Not to say that I haven’t been asked by vets to feed one or another of them through the years. I just politely let them know that I appreciate their advice and I’ll think about it. This vet that I’ve had for 13 years knows that I feed commercial raw diets so none of the vets in the practice or the techs ask me anymore what I feed my dogs. Dr. Susan Wynn is a nutritionist that has seen my 15 1/2 year old Maltese when she was diagnosed with very high liver levels, then a tumor in her bladder and then a mass on the lobe of one of her lungs. All those were discovered early last Spring. At that point Dr. Wynn suggested that I put Hannah on Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Diet because it is HPP and if Hannah’s immune system was working hard with all that was going on with her she didn’t want her to be exposed to any unnecessary bacteria. I feed a rotational diet with all three of my dogs and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Food was already in their diets. I continued to keep with my rotational feeding of commercial raw foods as I have for the last three years. Some are HPP and some are not. Actually most are not. Typically poultry is what is put under HPP and I don’t feed any poultry because one of my girls is highly intolerant of all fowl. I also don’t feed white potatoes or any night shade plants because they are pro inflammatory. April will be a year that she was diagnosed. To the delight of all, she remains asymptomatic to bladder or lung cancer. Her liver levels are back down in the normal range. (The elevated liver levels were discovered in last Spring’s blood work during her annual physical which is what started the initial visit to Georgia Veterinary Specialists where Dr. Wynn practices and was one of her doctors). I did add a few supplements to Hannah’s diet manufactured by Standard Process. She is regularly monitored and her blood work comes back normal. Her titers are all really good also. Her vet and I decided last year that due to the cancer only titers will be done for her for the rest of her life which I pray is for many many more years. Hannah is the picture in my avatar that was taken last year.

[aimee]

Hi Tom,

My perspective is a bit different so I’ll share it with you. On one hand I think that veterinarians have a duty to inform. If you are feeding your dog a raw diet they have to inform you of risk of pathogens. If they don’t they can be open for a malpractice suit if someone gets ill and it is traced back to the dog’s raw diet.
Your dog has formed stones in the past. I see it as a duty to inform you that the diet you are feeding has not been shown to reduce uric acid stone formation whereas U/D has.
As Dals age the risk of stone formation decreases, you can find common ground by monitoring urine to hit the target parameters to prevent uric acid stone recurrence.

Why do vets recommend Hills? Is it lack of nutrition knowledge? I don’t see that as the reason because I have found that it is those with the most education that also recommend Hills. Stepping away from dogs and vets for a minute, I found that PhD nutritionists selecting commercial diets to feed to valuable zoo animals often choose Hills. At the major zoo near me I saw that Hills was being fed. I asked why and was told it was because of the consistency of formulation and high bioavailability of nutrients.

Veterinary nutritionists also recommend Hills and the general practiioner will look to the specialists in their respective fields when seeking guidance with their cases. Dr. Wynn, a holistic practiioner who is so passionate about proper nutrition that she went on to be board certified in nutrition, recommends Hills.

It really isn’t about lack of knowledge, it is about using a different value system by which foods are evaluated. As for myself, I use Hills products, my choice, based on the things that are important to me when deciding what to use to nourish my dog.

I agree that vets do not get a lot of nutritional training. Just as they don’t get a lot of trading in cardiology or dentistry or radiology etc etc etc.. Yet I’ve yet to hear someone say “I don’t have my vet listen to my dog’s heart because he only had a few lectures on cardiology in vet school”. Certainly how much education any one vet will have will vary with the school form which he/she graduated and also with their own interests. Six of the seven vets where I take my pets did not have any nutritional education from
Hills etc. They had a PhD for general nutrition and then DVM faculty for clinical nutrition. Thry did get a free copy of Small Animal Clinicl Nutriton but no direct contact. The seventh said that they were “lunch and learns” put on by Hills and after the presentation faculty together with the students critiqued the information given to them. These were not a formal part of her nutritional training. Of the seven vets, five different schools were represented and years of graduation varied from 1972 to 2011. Different schools will have different programs, but this idea that students are taught by and brainwashed by company reps I’ve found not to be true.

Do Vets get kickbacks? No but as when selling any product they charge you more then what they paid for it.

[Bobby dog]

BC:
Just curious, are these the fat %’s that you try to meet for the raw diet you feed your dogs?

[Akari_32]

So I emailed Purina asking about how many cups were in a 32 pound of food, and they sent me back this crap:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/23D1FB01-EF17-422D-9861-AD88E5B14EC9_zpsqh3ok8t9.png

“Specific formula” my butt! I’ll figure it out myself, thanks. I was just being lazy… Lol

Mountainhound, when you have a dog with a list of health problems as long as Ginger has, including extremely poor dental health, let me know how raw works out. I’m 100% for raw feeding, two of my pets are raw fed, in fact, but it’s not the only answer to every situation. The best of the best, when it comes down to diet, is simply what works best for each dog. Ginger can’t handle the fat content in raw, and the bacterial content would wreak havoc on her already infected mouth and poorly adapted digestive system. I’ve spent enough nights washing dog beds, thank you very much.

[lovemypuppy]

Thanks everyone for all the good information!

First let me say, I’m in my late 30’s and this is the first dog I’ve owned, lived with, or cared for. Not trying to use that as an excuse, it is what it is, but I’m definitely having a steep learning curve, and unfortunately it’s at the expense of my pup 🙁

I don’t know she has a food allergy or any type of allergy, but given her breed (Boston Terrier), finickiness, weight loss, red eyes, tear stains, brittle and dry fur, dry itchy skin, missing fur on her hind legs and behind her ears, and a few small scabs from scratching, I felt like it made sense to try to switch to raw with minimal ingredients in hopes of improving her overall health and identifying any potential allergens.

Unfortunately, I didn’t come to this conclusion until after giving her WAY TOO MANY different types of animal proteins (kibble, wet, freeze dried, toppers, etc.) while trying to find a food (and training treat) she’d settle on. I’m sure it didn’t help that she also went through quite a few different foods with the breeder when she was having a hard time weaning.

At this point, I’m not sure it would be possible for me to pinpoint a specific food that might be causing her skin and fur issues. The animal proteins she’s had the most of are chicken, beef, and turkey. Also, most of her symptoms were present before I started switching her food around and giving her novel animal proteins. So, if I had to take a guess, I would say she is having a hard time with turkey, chicken, and maybe lentils (they gave her horrid gas, anyway).

At this point, she’s been on the commercial raw for about a week and I’m seeing dramatic improvement. She still has tear stains, but I imagine that will take time (to grow out) and diligence on my end (wiping her face). She has gained weight and filled out, her coat is not nearly as dry (even shiny towards her back/spine) and her skin flaking and itchiness has lessened.

Given her overall improvement, I’m not inclined to switch her food yet again, especially if I can just stick with this for 10 weeks and see where she is at then (and if need be do more of a true elimination diet). I will stop the catfish skins (bummer) and try to find some type of low fat duck chew. I have sweet potato chews but she doesn’t really like them … they seem to crumble up and are more crunchy than chewy. Maybe if that’s her only choice though, she’ll learn to enjoy them 🙂

@DogFoodie, have you looked at Nordic Naturals Pet Collection? They use pharmaceutical grade, molecularly distilled fish oil, using sardine and anchovy oil or cod liver oil. Their pet line is pretty much the same as their human line with the exception of tocopherols as the preservative rather than rosemary extract. Just a thought.

If you read all of this, you rock! Sorry it’s so long and again thanks to all for offering your valuable insight!

[lovemypuppy]

Thanks, that make sense to avoid the animal protein sources across the board, from food to chews and everything in between. I guess I was secretly hoping that wasn’t the case.

Right now, I’m feeding a commercial raw diet that contains salmon oil and duck as the only animal protein sources.

For chews, I’m giving catfish skins (Beams) but not sure if that is OK since catfish is a different type of fish than salmon.

[lovemypuppy]

I switched my 11 week puppy about a week ago to a raw commercial diet. I wanted to avoid giving kibble and raw in the same meal since they digest at considerably different rates. Instead, I planned on making 1 out of 4 daily meals raw, and then slowly working up to 4 out of 4 meals being raw when the transition was complete. This didn’t end up working for us because as soon as she got her first taste of raw, she refused to eat even a single kibble. Despite a fast transition, or lack there of, she did very well with no GI upset. I did give canned pureed pumpkin for a few days to help prevent any potential GI upset.

[lovemypuppy]

I switched my puppy at 10 weeks to a commercial raw diet. She’s been on it for only a week but already appears healthier. I chose Primal Formulas because there are 8 different formula options, it’s convenient (pre-portioned into 1 ounce nuggets), it is rated for all life stages with a calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1.2:1, and the ingredient list is commendable, IMO, with all veggies being organic and the addition of fish oil, apple cider vinegar, and coconut oil. The only supplements that are added are zinc, copper, and selenium – the rest is all food derived.

[mountainhound]

Rice is not a part of a raw diet, a lot of people do the prey model style because its easier, no grinding or blending veggies (most dogs dont need veggies)
Look info facebook groups and also this website which is a good starting guide to feeding raw, or you can always get some premade from a petstore like bravo, primal or vital essentials. http://puppybutt.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/9/2/7692088/beginners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.4.1.pdf

[mountainhound]

Interesting results. Have you beef feeding whole prey including bones? ground raw won’t clean teeth or improve breath since they are not crunching on bone. I’ve never heard of a dog becoming aggressive on a raw diet either. Sometimes they go through a detox period of about 2-3 months which can create mood variations, so thats always a possibility.

[mountainhound]

I would never feed any prescription food to a dog with joint issues, the bulk of those ingredients are highly inflammatory and will cause more harm than good. Feed a good quality raw diet (even premade raw will probably be cheaper than Hills), raw food contains natural sources of glucosamine/chondroitin from ground up cartilage. Lack of carbs will help with inflammation and pain reduction. You can also give her treats like tracheas and duck feet since those are good sources of glucosamine. I’ve had good results with a supplement called Liquid Health, its tasteless and easy to mix with ground raw food.