[puppypiles]

If you’re interested in making your own food or dehydrating it, I suggest looking at http://www.dogaware.com/articles/newsdiet.html#recipestudy. It’s an article about the research and nutrient deficiencies in homemade diets, and links to where you can get supplementation.

I also agree with Akari in that feeding a purely raw (especially PMR) is easy if your calculations are correct. The very basic rule of thumb with dogs is 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs, with 5% of that being liver, and the other 5% being another secreting organ, such as kidneys or pancreas.

[Akari_32]

It’s very easy to ensure your dog gets a proper diet on a raw diet. You just have to do the calculations right. Better yet, each and every meal does not have to completely balanced. The concept is to balance over time. I makes life much simpler. For example, if I were to balance each and every meal for my 7.8 pound dog, he would get less than one half of an ounce of bone at every meal. He’d totally choke on that (not the brightest of creatures)! Instead, he gets a decent sized chicken bone a few days a week.

Also, I feel it’s hard to ensure they are getting everything by using veggies rather than organs. Dogs to not fully digest plant matter, even when it’s cooked and puréed, but they do digest the organs, which is where they get all of their neccessary vitamins and minerals.

(Most) Dogs are perfectly capable of handling “questionable” meat. Their stomach acid has such a low ph that not much can survive in there. I know many raw feeders up north bring carcasses into their yards and let their dogs eat off of it until all eatable parts are gone. There is where knowing your dog comes in, and knowing what they can handle and what they like.

The only down side I find to making up raw meals for my dog and cat is the freezer space. We do not have the room available for even a small freezer, so the humans and animals share a freezer. This isn’t a problem with most people, though.

The problem with what you are suggesting is that your idea is really not that much better than kibble. Dogs to not need rice, or pumpkin, or any veggies. Sure many dogs like these things, but they are of little value as far as nutrition goes. If you were to just dehydrate meat and organs, that would be different. So long as bones were also offered, that is. Bones are neccessary because they provide glucosamine and calcium, among other things. They can be replaced with bone meal, egg shell, or a calcium suppliment, but then you loose the added “work out” and teeth cleaning benefit when the dog chews them. Also, unpreserved dehydrated meat does go bad, and would need to frozen and used from the fridge. So there’s still that.

It is an interesting idea, you just aren’t quite looking at the whole picture. 🙂

[a c]

Hello,
I have been reading this forums for a while now. It really convinced me to start feeding my i dog raw and I thank all of you for that.
Right now Im trying to find a nice superfood mix. I came across this and was wondering what people think about it. I didn’t come across any ingredients which are harmful. It is called pHresh Greens Raw Alkalizing Superfood. http://shop.phreshproducts.com/phresh-greens-1-month-supply/
The diet I feed my dog looks like this. He is a male, 55lb 9 month old pit mix.
AM – 1lb chicken grind
PM – 1lb chicken grind
– 1/2lb of tripe and eggs every 2-3 days
– Carlson cod liver oil, 1 pill every 2 days
– Carlson salmon oil, 1 pill every day
– Coconut oil, 4-5 teaspoon every day
– apple cider vinegar, 1 garlic clove 2-3 times a week.
I am trying to find good superfood mix and also to supplement with some probiotics, either kefir or yoghurt. I can get them both from the farmers market. Would that be necessary or any store-bought will be just fine?
Thank you

[SdianeM M]

Last week was my first time posting since I was just about to take the plunge and begin my pup on a new way of feeding. Yes, I was a bit apprehensive about this change, but with everything I have read, I knew this was the answer to her yeast issues.
I came across a raw food manufactured in Norcross, GA called AllProvide … Being the apprehensive person I am (and after having something horrible happen to my pup before Sadie), I am very protective and cautious. I called this company to ask questions in regards to their food, I expected to hear from customer service and hear the same chat that lacks the personal touch — was I ever surprised when I was able to speak with one of the owners of the company! Not only did he answer all my questions, but he even emailed me with a list of medications that he has tried with his dog. Wow! I could not believe it!
The rest of the weekend I researched and tried to find reviews, etc. When I called them back in regards to reviews, they offered to send me a free sample of their food. Another Wow moment — who does this in this day and time?
I happened to find two other ladies that wanted to try the food too, so we all went into this at the same time and wanted to compare our findings. This is what I have found: from the very first feeding my Sadie started sleeping all night, her yeast issues are clearing up – they are very minimal right now, and she has lost that musty smell! She absolutely loves the food — she has gone from a dog that would pick and eat her kibbles, to a dog that is downright greedy and in love with her food.
I spoke to both of the other ladies who happen to have smaller pups than Sadie, but both have reported that their picky eaters are now anxiously waiting in the kitchen for their food. All have accepted the food very easily, with minimal problems. One had a touch of diarrhea, but the lady was able to overcome the problem very easy.
Yesterday I spoke with Dr. Judy Morgan, DVM – Holistic Vet in regards to Sadie, and explained to her the new diet that I have placed Sadie on. Dr. Morgan has authored a book on making dog food and dog nutrition, but she did tell me that 1/2 of her clients are on the home cooked meals, while the other 1/2 is on a commercial raw food. She said how she recommends 3 different companies to her clients for the raw … I told her about All Provide, and while we were talking she pulled up their website and studied it. She was very impressed with what she saw, and was even more impressed with their prices. At the end of our conversation she told me that she was going to start recommending this company to her patients. That, my people, meant a whole lot to me — I highly respect Dr. Judy Morgan’s decisions.
There are several ways to offset the cost of the food on their website: you can join and earn reward discounts by liking their page, sharing their page, etc. You can also earn discounts by recommending it to your friends … if you recommend the food and they give your name when placing an order, you each get a $10 discount … pretty cool!
I would like to ask that if you decide to try this company that you please consider giving my name as the person that referred you … my 53 lb. fur baby and I would really appreciate it. Looks like Sadie is trying to work overtime on ways to make me feel sorry for her and feed her more! Just put in my name: Diane Miller
Here’s the website for All Provide — http://www.allprovide.com

[SdianeM M]

Last week was my first time posting since I was just about to take the plunge and begin my pup on a new way of feeding. Yes, I was a bit apprehensive about this change, but with everything I have read, I knew this was the answer to her yeast issues.
I came across a raw food manufactured in Norcross, GA called AllProvide … Being the apprehensive person I am (and after having something horrible happen to my pup before Sadie), I am very protective and cautious. I called this company to ask questions in regards to their food, I expected to hear from customer service and hear the same chat that lacks the personal touch — was I ever surprised when I was able to speak with one of the owners of the company! Not only did he answer all my questions, but he even emailed me with a list of medications that he has tried with his dog. Wow! I could not believe it!
The rest of the weekend I researched and tried to find reviews, etc. When I called them back in regards to reviews, they offered to send me a free sample of their food. Another Wow moment — who does this in this day and time?
I happened to find two other ladies that wanted to try the food too, so we all went into this at the same time and wanted to compare our findings. This is what I have found: from the very first feeding my Sadie started sleeping all night, her yeast issues are clearing up – they are very minimal right now, and she has lost that musty smell! She absolutely loves the food — she has gone from a dog that would pick and eat her kibbles, to a dog that is downright greedy and in love with her food.
I spoke to both of the other ladies who happen to have smaller pups than Sadie, but both have reported that their picky eaters are now anxiously waiting in the kitchen for their food. All have accepted the food very easily, with minimal problems. One had a touch of diarrhea, but the lady was able to overcome the problem very easy.
Yesterday I spoke with Dr. Judy Morgan, DVM – Holistic Vet in regards to Sadie, and explained to her the new diet that I have placed Sadie on. Dr. Morgan has authored a book on making dog food and dog nutrition, but she did tell me that 1/2 of her clients are on the home cooked meals, while the other 1/2 is on a commercial raw food. She said how she recommends 3 different companies to her clients for the raw … I told her about All Provide, and while we were talking she pulled up their website and studied it. She was very impressed with what she saw, and was even more impressed with their prices. At the end of our conversation she told me that she was going to start recommending this company to her patients. That, my people, meant a whole lot to me — I highly respect Dr. Judy Morgan’s decisions.
There are several ways to offset the cost of the food on their website: you can join and earn reward discounts by liking their page, sharing their page, etc. You can also earn discounts by recommending it to your friends … if you recommend the food and they give your name when placing an order, you each get a $10 discount … pretty cool!
I would like to ask that if you decide to try this company that you please consider giving my name as the person that referred you … my 53 lb. fur baby and I would really appreciate it. Looks like Sadie is trying to work overtime on ways to make me feel sorry for her and feed her more! Just put in my name: Diane Miller
Here’s the website for All Provide — http://www.allprovide.com

[SdianeM M]

Last week was my first time posting since I was just about to take the plunge and begin my pup on a new way of feeding. Yes, I was a bit apprehensive about this change, but with everything I have read, I knew this was the answer to her yeast issues.

I came across a raw food manufactured in Norcross, GA called AllProvide … Being the apprehensive person I am (and after having something horrible happen to my pup before Sadie), I am very protective and cautious. I called this company to ask questions in regards to their food, I expected to hear from customer service and hear the same chat that lacks the personal touch — was I ever surprised when I was able to speak with one of the owners of the company! Not only did he answer all my questions, but he even emailed me with a list of medications that he has tried with his dog. Wow! I could not believe it!

The rest of the weekend I researched and tried to find reviews, etc. When I called them back in regards to reviews, they offered to send me a free sample of their food. Another Wow moment — who does this in this day and time?

I happened to find two other ladies that wanted to try the food too, so we all went into this at the same time and wanted to compare our findings. This is what I have found: from the very first feeding my Sadie started sleeping all night, her yeast issues are clearing up – they are very minimal right now, and she has lost that musty smell! She absolutely loves the food — she has gone from a dog that would pick and eat her kibbles, to a dog that is downright greedy and in love with her food.

I spoke to both of the other ladies who happen to have smaller pups than Sadie, but both have reported that their picky eaters are now anxiously waiting in the kitchen for their food. All have accepted the food very easily, with minimal problems. One had a touch of diarrhea, but the lady was able to overcome the problem very easy.

Yesterday I spoke with Dr. Judy Morgan, DVM – Holistic Vet in regards to Sadie, and explained to her the new diet that I have placed Sadie on. Dr. Morgan has authored a book on making dog food and dog nutrition, but she did tell me that 1/2 of her clients are on the home cooked meals, while the other 1/2 is on a commercial raw food. She said how she recommends 3 different companies to her clients for the raw … I told her about All Provide, and while we were talking she pulled up their website and studied it. She was very impressed with what she saw, and was even more impressed with their prices. At the end of our conversation she told me that she was going to start recommending this company to her patients. That, my people, meant a whole lot to me — I highly respect Dr. Judy Morgan’s decisions.

There are several ways to offset the cost of the food on their website: you can join and earn reward discounts by liking their page, sharing their page, etc. You can also earn discounts by recommending it to your friends … if you recommend the food and they give your name when placing an order, you each get a $10 discount … pretty cool!

I would like to ask that if you decide to try this company that you please consider giving my name as the person that referred you … my 53 lb. fur baby and I would really appreciate it. Looks like Sadie is trying to work overtime on ways to make me feel sorry for her and feed her more! Just put in my name: Diane Miller

Here’s the website for All Provide — http://www.allprovide.com

[Abe A]

First I want to thank Mike for setting up this site. Great job! We have a 1 year old puppy who is healthy. We have been feeding her Blue Wilderness product and she recently stopped eating two meals a day and going to 1 meal a day. We switch per the recommendation of friends, a local pet store, and the vet said…try a raw meat diet.

We purchased Orijen Adult Food Kibble and then Stella and Chewy raw food. WOW!!!!! she devoured the food over the past three days.

Questions:

1.) We are thinking about transitioning her to Raw meat diet. Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

2.) Is it ok to give her a combo kibble/raw meat in the morning meal and then a full raw meat dinner? Frankly, I do not think she even cares about the dry kibble food. She wants the meat.

Thank you,

Abe

[Mike A]

Hi everybody, my name is Mike and Im an owner of a almost 3 year old Boxer. I’ve come here for advise on how to deal with pancreatitis.

So, as I mentioned before I have a Boxer named Kolbie and shes 3 years old and weighs in about 65 pounds. She has had an issue with an upset tummy, arched up back, drueling, and wont eat from time to time the past year or so. It always seemed to clear up by days end so we never thought too much of it and it didnt happen very often. As of late, the instances increased and she has since been diagnosed with pancreatitis. We were feeding her Taste of the Wild, and Mother Hubbard peanut butter flavored treats. We would also put peanut butter in her kong for her as an extra treat also and this was a daily thing. I would also give her marrow bones to chew on and have since learned the marrow is high in fat.
She has been on Purina HA now for almost 6 weeks as prescribed by our vet and we have cut out all the extra stuff and the pancreatitis episodes have stopped. I have been adding boiled chicken and rice to the food to make it more appetizing for her. I have noticed since being on the food she has lost about 3 pounds, her coat has dulled and she seems to be shedding more. I would like to get her off this food and back to a better diet but I have no idea where to start. A raw diet is not possible for me to do on a daily basis so I would like to feed her a high quality kibble and I dont mind adding boiled chicken and rice to it if thats a good thing to do.
I was going to put her back on TOTW and nix all the other fatty stuff but after reading the bad reviews from forum members I am reluctant. So I guess what I am getting at is I need some help to choose a quality food and treat to keep my pup healthy and happy.
Thanks for reading and I’ll be happy for any advise and suggestions.

[puppypiles]

I know raw and canned are more species appropriate, and I want to continue feeding him this way. It is however hard for me to feed him a can at 7am, and not be home until 8pm. If he’s tired of that flavor, the can of food has sat out for 13 hrs, and that’s 13 hrs that he hasn’t eaten. Plus who can have a social life when they have to be home every morning and every night on the dot to give him food? I want to give him the option of being able to eat when he needs to, and not have to schedule everything around canned diet.

As far as cost goes, he is the pickiest gosh darn cat in the whole universe, and one can he might have loved 3 days ago no sits uneaten. He has actually been diagnosed with anorexia by 2 separate, excellent vets, and has a standing prescription of mirtazapine, an appetite stimulant.

[puppypiles]

My cat has been on an all wet and raw diet since he was about 8 months old, and he’s nearly 3. He’s the picture of health, very svelte, and the vets just love him.

However, I am interested in adding some dry food into his diet. This is for several reasons.

Firstly, it’s a cost issue. Feeding high quality wet and raw foods (Weruva, Natural Balance, Earthborn, Rad Cat, Feline Naturals) is pretty pricey, and dry food, even the highest quality, is significantly cheaper per pound.

Secondly, I work in retail and work long hours (50+ a week). When you’re only feeding wet foods, it’s difficult to leave some out as it will go bad. I’d like to give him the option of having SOMETHING there if he gets hungry.

I realize the diet I’m feeding him now is a good one and dry food is not as good for a cat as wet and raw. My intention is to find a food he likes so it can be used in an emergency, and up to 25% of his current diet.

When he was younger and eating some dry, he ate California Natural Grain Free chicken. I haven’t tried that again, but I did try some Orijen red meat, which he totally snubbed. He also hates all things fish, and only eats canned/raw foods with poultry, lamb, or beef.

[Dori]

In my opinion, and that’s all it is, I would change their food. They’ve been on this particular food for a long enough time that you know they are not losing weight. Feeding them at the low end (25% below their intake plus on the low side) could cause health issues of another sort. Recommended guide lines of manufactured dog foods will mean that more or a little less, they will get their nutritional needs from that food given the approx. amount they recommend. If you are always given them less then or at the lowest end of recommendation could possibly lead to nutritional deficiencies.

My suggestion would be go find a 4 or 5 star rated quality food from a reputable company with a moderate to high protein, moderate fat and low carbs and I wouldn’t feed any of the foods on THE list. I checked almost all of those foods earlier today and they are all low in fat and high in carbs.

I may have mentioned that I have three toy breed dogs that I keep on the lean side. I feed them all commercial raw diets. I rotate proteins and brands. Commercial raw dog foods are all very high protein, high fat and low carbs. I don’t have to adjust the amount of food that I feed them going from one to the other commercial raw food because they are all accustomed to high protein and fat diets with low carbs. As a matter of fact there are times that I will feed them more than their normal amounts to get a little more weight on them. My feeding method for them is that I feed them between 2.5% and 3% of their body weight. I bought a cheap digital kitchen scale on Amazon. I think it’s a more precise way of knowing that you’re feeding them the correct amount of food each of them needs. I’ve never liked measuring dry kibble (when I used to feed it to them over three years ago) because not all dry foods are the same exact size so that the cup size will always vary somewhat in the amount your feeding them.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Linda:
I am always on the lookout for average to low fat commercial raw foods. I find most recipes too high in fat. Good or bad fat it’s in there and I want the majority of my dog’s calories to be from protein not fat. Here’s an article on fat in commercial raw foods:
/choosing-dog-food/raw-dog-food-fat/

From my list I only have one food that may fit your needs Primal Frozen Venison. On a dry matter basis using the numbers from their site it is about 16% fat. Their Frozen Rabbit recipe is also low fat (17% DMB), but you mentioned rabbit might not agree with your dog.

You might consider making your own raw if you are unable to find a suitable commercial diet. Here is a list of books for making raw and home cooked diets:
http://www.dogaware.com/diet/bookreviews.html

Since your dog is not too thrilled eating TOTW kibble maybe try another brand or have you ever thought about supplementing with canned instead? Here are some low-fat canned foods I feed Wellness Core Weight Management, Innova Large Breed Sr., and Weruva’s Marbella Paella, Paw Lickin’ Chicken, and Bed and Breakfast recipes. On Weruva’s site they list their nutrition information in dry matter basis. Other low-fat canned foods I want to try are Fromm’s Four Star Shredded Chic or Beef and Petsmart’s Simply Nourish bisque or stew foods.

Feeding a balanced diet is important, however if my dog had a health issue it would definitely be priority for me. Regarding Sojos foods and mixes there have been comments posted on DFA about the vegetables coming out of their dog as they went in and lack of info on their labels. Some posters suggested grinding the mix before feeding it. You can do a search for comments on Sojos here’s one thread:
/forums/topic/sojo-premix/

Concerns have also been posted about The Honest Kitchen foods and mixes. Posters have commented on digestibility issues, label accuracy, feeding recommendations, and questionable information provided by customer service and the owner of the company. Check out the comment sections on the review side for more info:
/dog-food-reviews/honest-kitchen-grain-free/
/dog-food-reviews/honest-kitchen-dog-food/

Good luck!

[DogFoodie]

Hi Joanne,

I’m not a Merrick fan, but know others who do who haven’t had issues. Personally, I chose not to use their products.

You can only get Timberwolf via mail order and that might be inconvenient for your sister. I once ordered some samples of Timberwolf and was disappointed that the samples I bought were so close to expiring and that the ingredients were different that those listed on the website. Maybe I bought my samples in between the updating of the website or something. Either way, I chose not to use it further.

Personally, if one of my dogs had ever had a seizure, I’d avoid rosemary at all costs. There is enough evidence to support that it can cause seizures in those dogs that are seizure prone.

Like I said before over on the review side, I’ve always like Canine Caviar. They’re in the process of changing some recipes. So, if you go that route, I’d make sure to look at the new foods and be sure that’s what you’re using because the old formulas will no longer be available soon.

Will your sister be feeding a rotational diet? I feed both of my dogs a rotational diet of all kinds of kibble, canned, dehydrated, raw and fresh, whole foods. That’s one of the ways I satisfy my passion for trying all those great foods that are available out there! Plus, it provides a more complete nutritional profile and limits exposure to less desirable ingredients – especially ingredients like carb sources; ie: grains, potatoes, peas and other legumes.

Edit: I was just recalling that I believe Timberwolf may be available in some retail outlets. I live in the Chicago area and have never seen it in a store near me.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by DogFoodie.

[Susan]

Hi, I don’t know many American raw diets… Barf has their Kangaroo 3% fat, 11% dry matter (kibble) that’s low in fat & a new one has just come out called Barf lite or Honest Kitchen ZEAL is suppose to be good.. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/zeal

[Dori]

In all seriousness I would start feeding your dog a commercial raw diet. Also if she continues to vomit, diarrhea and not eat during the weekend you need to start administering plain, non flavored Pedialite which you can buy over the counter at any pharmacy or grocery store in the baby/infant aisles. Also purchase a syringe. If she won’t drink it, then start administering small amounts, maybe 3cc’s at intervals. You need to keep her electrolytes in check. Make sure it’s plain unflavored so that it doesn’t contain any sugars.

[Linda M]

I have a 14 y/o bRat Terrier whose has been on Stella & Chewy’s frozen patties since late last summer. Since switching her to raw, her Trygycerides have been rising, but I was alarmed when they doubled on her last blood panel (they are now at 2200). The rest of her blood panel is normal, aside from an elevated Liver ALP (now at 174…but that is down from 600 about 4 years ago, thanks to a daily dose of Denamarin).

Her weight fluctuates between 18 and 20 pounds. She is sedentary for the most part (sleeps most of the day while we are working), but otherwise has tons of energy and always happy to go for walks (thankful that Chicago weather is finally breaking and we can get some exercise again).

She has always had a heart murmur (around a Grade 2 for most of her life)…about 3 years ago we were told it was a 3 borderline 4…last summer she started coughing and the vet told us her murmur was a 4 borderline 5 and she was in the early stages of Congestive Heart Failure. She was put on a daily dose of Enalapril (2.5mg twice per day) and Vetmedin (5 mg. per day split into two doses). That was also when we switched her to a raw diet, and within weeks her cough disappeared. That was last September…at her visit this past week, she no longer shows any signs of CHF and her murmur is now at a 2 borderline 3…the vet is shocked and amazed that her murmur has improved and told us that he wouldn’t believe us if hadn’t seen it for himself…he says murmurs NEVER improve. He is skeptical of the raw food, however, I attribute her improvement to the change in diet more than anything (not to say the meds haven’t helped…I have no doubt they have).

This is a dog who shed like crazy until switching her to Raw – now she barely loses any hair and her coat is thick and shiny. The muscle mass along her spine was deteriorating (you could see her pointy spine bones sticking up along her back) and she was developing spondylosis…with a “clicking” sound that you could also feel along her spine. After a month on raw, her bones no longer protruded through her back and now she can once again race up & down the stairs and on the furniture (to my dismay)…the clicking is gone. Raw had done wonders for her health, and I’m sold on it being the best for her.

She is, however, sensitive to birds…no chicken, duck, pheasant or we start dealing with itching along her lips and paws that quickly devolves into infections. We have been rotating her on beef, venison, lamb & rabbit (tho I have my concerns about the rabbit being an issue with her lip…so lately I’ve avoided feeding it to her).

She is fed strictly 2 1/2 small patties of Stella & Chewy’s twice per day, 12 hrs apart…and her only treats are carrot chips. I keep a bag of Taste of the Wild Lamb on hand…I leave handfuls of them in her bowl to eat at her leisure if she get’s hungry between meals, but she rarely touches it (unless I’m late with a feeding).

Because of her high triglycerides, my vet would like to get her onto a lower fat diet. He suggested kibbles & prescription kibbles…but I will not go down that road again…Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein nearly brought her to the brink of a malnourished death prior to Raw…no way I will go back.

So…any suggestions on how to lower the fat content while still keeping her on raw and not feeding any “crap” foods?

My working theory is to use SOJOS grain-free fruit & veggie mix (the kind you rehydrate with water) and combine that with 1 Stella & Chewys patty per day (half 1.5 oz patty at each feeding). I am having a difficult time working out how much of each to feed her while keeping the fat under 15%, the protein and fiber in a higher range, and the calorie amounts appropriate for her size/age & slower-pace lifestyle. Would love to see all of her blood panel numbers in the normal range at her next test…not just for her sake, but to prove to the vet how beneficial this raw diet has been.

ANY suggestions or help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

• This topic was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Linda M.
• This topic was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Linda M.

[Dori]

Riley and Molly. If she is your only dog then there is no reason why you could not afford to feed her a good quality commercial raw diet. I have a Maltese, a Maltipoo and a Yorkipoo. They have all been on a rotation of commercial raw diets for the past three years and all are doing phenomenally well. A toy or small breed dog does not need a different diet or food than a regular dog other than a large breed dog puppy that needs less calcium in its growing years.

[Chrissy L]

Hello,
I have a 3yr 120lb Great Dane and a 4yr 8lb Chihuahua, I am wanting to wade into raw feeding instead of jumping headlong, because I’m not sure my dane will like it. He is a bit picky but he has started eating non-food items so the vet said he is lacking something in his diet. I do have access to a butcher, but not game meat. And I dont know what bones are ok for one dog and not the other. I also would rather not feed commercial if possible, I am a stay at home mom and so I have the time to put into whatever prep is needed.

Thanks

[Akari_32]

The problem with feeding a cat dog food is that dog food typically lacks taurine, which is essential for cats. And the problem with feeding chunked canned foods is that they are very (*very*) high in carbs. Carbs are hard on a cats system, because they aren’t meant to digest them, and they take a lot of water for their bodies to break down. Not to mention, they are the cause of tartar build up on the teeth, with out regular brushing. I do include some chunky style canned foods in my cats rotation, yes, but they do not make any significant portion of his diet.

I’m actually finding a raw diet is cheaper than even using coupons to get super good deals on premium brands. With raw, you want to use lots of dark and red meats and hearts because they are high in fat and taurine. Dark meat chicken is cheap, usually about $1 a pound, pork is around $2.50 a pound, and many cuts go on fantastic sales for $1 a pound. Large pieces of meat and chicken bone are great for dental health. He also eats much less on raw than canned. On canned he normally gets about 9 oz. On raw, he eats 6 oz.

[Akari_32]

Guys. I was looking back through the thread, and it’s been a year since I brought Kitty home!! :O this calls for celebration! I think I’ll get him lamb for his next raw meal :3

Speaking of raw, I’ve got an order of 8oz Reditainers on the way from Amazon! Right now, he’s getting 6oz of canned and 6oz of raw, rotating days. He’ll get either Fancy Feast, Wellness Duos or Wellness Sliced/Minced/Cubed (2x 3oz cans) one day, a 5.5oz can of Friskies Special Diet (randomly replaced with Newmans Own, and a couple other brands) another day, 6oz of balanced raw the next, and then another 5.5oz can the next day, and then it starts all over again. I opted to pull the better brands (Halo Vigor, Halo Impulse, and Natures Variety) out and save them for if I ever go away and whoever watches him cannot do raw. There’s probably 8 cans, none of them expiring until sometime in 2016 (I wrote all the expiration dates down on the tops of the cans). Once the rest of the canned is gone, he will be on 100% raw! I’ve got something like 50 days of canned left, so it’ll be a while, but I’m very happy with his coat and teeth improvements with raw only being a few times a week 🙂 Can’t wait till I’ve used all the canned up 😀

[Dori]

I should first inform you Jennifer that I am a commercial raw feeder so I wouldn’t cook, warm up or microwave any food I’m feeding my three dogs. But as Sandy has stated, and she would know better than I would, if bones are truly finely ground up then I guess you could cook them or warm them up in your microwave which is basically cooking them. That, to me, basically negates the reason for feeding a commercial or home raw diet.

I didn’t see the mention of AAFCO though I’m glad you did. I found their site a bit time consuming and not particularly easy to get around. I do have a problem in that their food is as inexpensive as it is and that shipping is free. Though I live in Georgia, not anywhere near their manufacturing plant, they say than can FedX my orders free of charge over night. As I said earlier, something just seems off to me but I’m not sure what. I’m going to call the company tomorrow and get some answers to some questions I have and I’ll post back here.

It also concerned me where it was mentioned the amount of fat in the calorie count. I really do need a review of this food from Dr. Mike and his team before I would ever feed it to my dogs.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

I’ve never heard of Allprovide Raw. Think I’ll wait until Dr. Mike and his team review the food and what thoughts they have, if any, on the company itself. I would be interested if, indeed, it is on DFA’s list of foods to be reviewed. I’ll wait.

Aquariangt: There’s no mention of GA on the site and also no mention of AAFCO either. Not that I don’t have foods in rotation that aren’t AAFCO compliant I just find it odd that they don’t even allude to it. I can’t, with comfort, feed a diet that at bare minimum doesn’t have a GA anywhere on the site unless we’re all missing it. Like you said, weirds me out too. Something seems off to me, obviously I could be wrong.

Jennifer H: Please give us an update once you’ve received the food and have fed it for a while. Thanks much!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[Jennifer H]

Wow I really love the ingredients in that food. I think it looks really good, but I’d like to know the dry matter % of fat to make sure they aren’t getting most of their meat from fatty cuttings.

I don’t like that it’s in 1lb pouches, as that could be a pain to portion for smaller dogs, but that probably cuts costs for them.

The site kind of sucks though, and I’m having difficulty estimating shipping (it keeps telling me free, which I know can’t be right. Also 50% off your first order holy smokes!)

I have no issue feeding vegetables to my dog so long as they are properly processed. Personally I think farmed meats lack some nutrition, and that it can be quite difficult to fully balance a diet with just meat/bone.

I feed my dog a homemade raw diet, but he’s so small (12lbs) it can be difficult to balance. I’m considering switching to a rotational commercial raw diet with a few RMBs a week.

Would love more info on this product 🙂

[Dori]

Hi John. Just saw your post here and I’d like to reply and help if I can.

Nope, it wasn’t me that suggested that you keep your dogs on the same protein. That’s totally against what I do or would recommend. I may not have explained things correctly. What I had said is that I would suggest that you find a few different (proteins) that your dogs do well on and rotate within the brand if, in fact, there are different proteins in that brand that you can feed. Also find other brands with proteins you dogs do well on and rotate within all the brands all the proteins that your dogs can eat. Rotate proteins and brands. It is never, in my opinion and the way I feed, a good idea to keep a dog long term on any one protein and on any one brand.

I can’t comment on the Acana line or any dry food as I’ve mentioned before. My allergy, intolerant girl can actually eat Nature’s Logic kibble but only the dry and only the sardine formula and only in my way of rotating which is often.

Other foods I thought you might want to consider to add into their diets are Nature’s Variety Instinct Freeze Dried Lamb (doesn’t contain any poultry, fowl, or beef)

Nature’s Variety Limited Instinct Kibble Rabbit or Lamb.

Stella and Chewy’s Freeze Dried. They have a rabbit, a lamb and also a venison formula. None of which contain beef or fowl of any sort.

I think adding freeze dried to their diets in rotation would be a little more cost effective with the kibbles you’ll be feeding because this way, at least, they’ll be getting some of the benefits of raw on occasion. The other is that if freeze dried is too expensive as their entire diet in rotation you might consider rotating through the freeze dried foods that I mentioned and use them just as their treats. You’ll be sure they’re getting healthy treats and they’ll benefit health wise and you don’t have to worry about what’s in the commercial “treats” which usually contain something dogs with food intolerances have issues with. I hope this has helped. Sorry, but I hadn’t realized that you were on the road 9 months of the year. Hopefully when you stationary from time to time if your room has a fridge with small freezer you may be able to just buy small bags of raw frozen to add into their diets. Nature’s Variety Instinct is sold in most, if not all, Petco and Petsmarts and they seem to be everywhere in the country. I love that you travel with your dogs and that they are a priority in our lives. Yes, we are all rather companion animal obsessed (or most of us are) and we like it that way. So, never fear, you’re not in the minority in the world of dogs and your wanting to do the very best you can for them. I’m pretty sure it would be a safe bet that most of us dog obsessed people on this site feed our dogs healthier diets that we do ourselves and our families. I’ve been known to do a McDonald’s drive thru from time to time for myself and my husband yet would rather die than feed my dogs any low quality garbage dog food. They become our children and, as such, we commit ourselves to their health and welfare. As typical parents, we usually put ourselves last. In my opinion that’s a good thing. They can’t choose what they eat, we do it for them so we should try to do the best for them. It’s the least we can do for them when you consider all they give us in return.

[John P]

Update: First, I want to thank everyone again for your thorough, prompt, and caring responses. I’ve tried to browse the forum to see if I could help anyone as you’ve helped me. So far, I haven’t found any topic that I feel I am qualified to give an educated opinion, but I will check back regularly.

Back to Iggy and Bella – I have had the luxury of feeding a mostly raw diet in this “detox” or “transition” phase only because this is the off-season for my business. In a few weeks, my dogs and I will begin our regular business road trips across the country (I could fly, but I would never crate my dogs in the cargo bay unless absolutely necessary). I travel with my dogs because I don’t want to be without them for extended periods of time, and I know most boarders won’t (and often can’t) provide the love, care, and attention that my dogs get from me (and that I feel they need and deserve). I tell you all this only because our transient lifestyle for nine months out of the year necessitates a dry dog food/kibble. That is why I have taken all of your excellent advice and focused my research and attention on dry dog foods.

Right now, I have found three highly rated dry dog foods with three distinct proteins that I plan to begin introducing into their diets. Here they are:
• Acana Singles Pork and Butternut Squash Dry Dog Food
•. Acana Singles Lamb and Apple Dry Dog Food
•. Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Rabbit Meal Dry Dog Food

Ideally, I would like to add at least one more food with at least one more single distinct protein to keep in the rotation, although I’m having trouble sorting through all the options to find anything suitable. I know both Iggy and Bella tolerate venison because they did well on the small bag of the Sweet Potato and Venison dog food I bought from that hack brand when I was desperate to switch and couldn’t find anything better at my local PetCo. They also do well with the raw venison that I get from my dad and brothers (they are hunters and have freezers full of the stuff). However, I can’t find any highly-rated venison food that isn’t fortified with fowl or beef (or both). If someone could give me a suggestion on a single-protein venison food, I would greatly appreciate it. Considering they will be getting this food in a rotation with other highly recommended foods, I think it would be acceptable for this venison food to have a lower protein count (correct me if I’m wrong – I’m just guessing). Alternatively, if you know of another protein that is not fowl, fish, beef, bison, or the proteins listed above, I could really use that help too. I’m afraid if one or more of these options don’t work out, which is quite possible, I’ll be going back to the drawing board and coming back begging for more help. Haha!

I believe it was Dori who suggested (or possibly impied) that I should at least consider using multiple foods with the same protein for the sake of variety if I am unable to find a suitable number of distinct proteins. If I must go that route, suggestions on single-protein dry dog foods (or, I suppose, dry dog foods with a mix of these proteins, although I find that highly doubtable) that I should try within these limits would also be very helpful, especially as I prepare logs and attempt to rule out sensitivities that might not be protein-related.

I have some excellent news, too! I have found a locally-owned pet store that is only an hour’s drive from my house. Their prices are significantly cheaper than sites like Chewy and Wag. Per 25-pound bag of premium dog food brands like Acana, I can save an average of $20 to $25. Also, they offered to order any food they don’t carry with no minimum quantities per order and no special order fee. They staff is friendly, knowledgeable, and extremely helpful. They even told me about this website before I had a chance to tell them that this is where I had done my research. I’ll never give PetCo or PetsMart my business again!

Thank you again. I am glad that I joined this online family of pet lovers. Among my friends and family, my dedication to my pets is often derided as obsessive, and my investment in their health is deemed wasteful. This community understands the relationship I have with Iggy and Bella, and I would go so far as to say that you encourage it. I look forward to hearing any additional help that any of you might have to offer, and I especially look forward to contributing my experiences to help others in the future.

[Akari_32]

I’ve never even heard of that brand. Just looked it up, and what concerns me is how cheap it is. Makes me wonder how they source their meat. Could be 4D meat, or something like that. Seems a bit strange for a premade raw diet to be so inexpensive. However, they could just have a really good relationship with local farms and ranches. Who knows for sure, with out actually contacting them and asking where they source their meat from.

That said, dogs don’t need veggies in their diets. They simply lack the ability to fully digest plant matter. It’s not very expensive at all to do a home made, balanced, prey model diet, of 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver, and 5% other organs. Pretty comparable to the price of a good kibble, and usually a bit cheaper when there are good deals. I use the Raw Dog app for iPhone to help me calculate it all, however, I do not balance every since day like the app does, but over a few days. The dog I’m feeding is so small it would be nearly impossible to give him such a small amount of bone and organ every day lol

Raw helped my yeasty dog a lot. Unfortunately, a good deal of his allergies are environmental as well, so he is not 100%, but is still doing much better on raw than he was on any kibble I ever tried him on. The thing with yeast is you don’t want to give it any fuel, which is carbs. Carbs are found in veggies and plant products, which Allprovide has. It’s best to just make your own diet if your dog have yeast problems. There are several groups on FaceBook that are really great resources for beginners, such as Raw Feeding Community, Prey Model Raw (PMR) for Dogs, and Raw Feeding FRIENDS. You should definitely check them out 🙂

[SdianeM M]

I have been researching a lot and it sounds as though a raw diet would help my pup with yeast issues.

The owner of Allprovide dog food graciously sent me out a sample of his food that he is selling that can be served raw or cooked.

Has anyone looked into this food? The owner mentioned that his product is on the list to be tested by Dog Advisor; however, it will take some time.

[Laura C]

hey Laurel…I’ve learned alot in my research of seizures. Besides rosemary…dogs with seizures need not only grain free, but also low carb, which includes ALL potatoes. A raw diet is best for these dogs…Dr. karen Becker (google her) has a lot of info regarding raw. As far as commercial food, a good one is Orijen Regional Red…it is high protein, moderate fat and low carb.

Shoot me an email if you have more questions…I have a hard time coming to this site with my work hours.

[email protected]

[aquariangt]

Welcome to DFA! First and very foremost, I want to see puppy pictures ASAP

Wellness and Nature’s Variety are personally the only foods that you listed that I would feed. As far as price goes, the Nature’s Variety Instinct will be cheaper than the raw boost as well, but still all are less than Orijen. Acana is more reasonable.

Where are you shopping? From the list you posted, I’d guess PetSmart or PetCo? Wellness CORE and NVI are the two best brands there probably, though at Petsmart they also have Nulo which is nice, and Simply Nourish Source-which I’ve used but I’ve heard a few things about some of their storage issues lately, its been a while since i’ve used that at all. There is also Freshet and Nature’s Variety Raw there if you were interested in going that direction however, Champion foods would probably be cheaper.

Now, on to other stores:

Fromm Gold Puppy i like a lot, and they just came out with Fromm Gold Grain Free. Fromm 4Star Grain Free is also suitable for all life stages-my most recommended and favorite brand.

Earthborn’s Grain Free line is all life stages and I like that a lot as well.

Go! Has a nice puppy food as well. Victor as well. There are many others that are great, just a few i like.

I would start with getting a bag of pro plan, whichever the breeder is on. Feed at least a week if not two of just that, don’t mix anything. Let the puppy get acclimated to your house and you. After a few weeks, start mixing in something new. After that, transition to yet another brand/protein. With puppies, if you start them on a rotational diet, they will be able to transition cold turkey in not too long, which is great, as a rotational diet is the best way to go.

[Akari_32]

I’m just glad that Dweezle eats less than half of what dogs his size are supposed to eat! Haley eats about “right,” but only because she has such a high metabolism, which I’m guessing is because she was never spayed. It’s finally slowing down, I think, though, considering she was just putting on weight while on a diet food LOL (Wellness Healthy Weight). She’s never been a big eater anyways, so the less food I can feed her, the better her tummy feels.

Wow, your guys eat less than Bentley and the cat do… LOL Bentley gets 3.5-4 oz a day, and the cat gets 6 oz on the days he gets raw.

Yeah, I mix it all rather evenly for them. If they were younger and hadn’t grown up on Dog Chow for 9 years before I finally was able to take full control of their diet, I’d just go through the small bags a brand at a time, since I only pick up a few bags of each at a time anyways. But I don’t want to switch them around more than every couple weeks, so I just mix up a big batch of various foods, and give them a couple days transition, with their old food on top of the new food.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Nate-
The good news is that Struvite crystals are dissolvable. The other types are not. The bad news is that Hill’s Science diet has been proven to dissolve them. The Hill’s s/d is to be fed only short term to dissolve them and the c/d can be fed long term to prevent them. My cat had Struvite crystals as well and I wish that I had fed the Hill’s when I suspected a problem. It may have saved him from a blockage.

While that is much less likely to happen to a dog, they still may be painful for him because they are sharp little suckers. You want to feed as much moisture as possible to flush them out, so getting the fountain was a great start. I would also try to feed as much canned or raw food as possible. Dry kibble is not the best option.
Another helpful bit advice that I’ve learned is that feeding smaller meals more often per day helps to keep the pH more steady. I now feed him 3 times per day. Also try to keep the dog’s stress level as low as possible. I think that was one of my cat’s biggest issues. We had a lot of changes in our household. Our son moved home, we stopped kenneling the dogs in the house, his litter boxes got moved and to top it off, I switched brands of litter! Does your dog have anxiety or had some changes lately? Did you have a urinalysis because you suspected something or was it routine?
After my episode, I would definitely follow the vet’s advice and use the Hill’s to dissolve the crystals and then go from there. After using it for a month, Casper’s crystals are gone, there is no blood or infection. It has been four months now and I am slowly weaning him off the prescription food. But I still feed mostly canned. His ordeal almost killed him so I’m being very careful!
So in conclusion, 1. Dissolve the crystals with the Rx food 2. Moisture, moisture, and more moisture, 3. Small frequent meals and 4. Reduce stress as much as possible. Then maybe you can start to use those supplements rather than the yucky food. And I do agree it seems yucky, but it did work for my cat who is lucky to be alive! Anyway, you will get other ideas as well. But that is my two cents. Good luck!

[Dori]

Hi Melissa.

I don’t know the sizes of your dogs so I don’t know if it would be cost prohibitive for you but I have three toy dogs and I feed them all commercial raw food diets. Twice a day. I also rotate commercial raw foods and they have not missed a meal in the three years that I have been feeding them commercial raw foods. Just a thought.

[Dori]

Hi John. Firstly I just wanted to post about Marie’s suggestions. She want be upset with me as she’s a friend of mine and is fabulous at helping others with their canines.

California Naturals does have a Kangaroo grain free but the protein is incredibly low. 21 % to AAFCO standards.

Natures Logic Rabbit contains turkey meal, chicken fat, chicken liver, dried egg product and egg shells (for calcium).

Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance (their grain free line) is freeze dried food. Their foods that do not have any poultry or beef are: Rabbit, Goat and Lamb. (Be forewarned…fairly large poops on Grandma Lucy’s but it does have a good reputation with a lot of feeders).

On to the questions you just asked of me. Since you are already feeding your dogs a raw diet, transitioning to a commercial raw diet will be very easy for you and your dogs if, in fact, that is the route you want to take. Transitioning to raw is much simpler and quicker especially with dogs that are already eating raw. Also because you already feed grain free that will make it a bit easier as their guts are in better and healthier conditions than dogs fed their entire lives on foods that contain massive amounts of carbs and lower quality foods. Now, I’m assuming at this point that the only known allergens are poultry and beef. I would stay away from any and all poultry (all fowl….anything with feathers). Since you say that Bella reacted violently to Bison after only a few hours you’ll be able to tell fairly quickly if a new food is going to bother her. Typically when I first started out with rotation feeding I could tell within 3 days how Katie was doing on it. If she was going to have loose stools or vomitting, scratching, gas, bad breath and everything else that goes along with food sensitivities it would happen fairly quickly so I stopped feeding that food and went on to the next. In your case I would probably tell you to start with one food and if they do well on it then feed only that food for two or three months just to give their guts a bit more healing time and “detoxing” as it’s called. At that time you will already have bought the next food you want to try within that brand if there is another protein without any allergens that your dogs may have. If that brand doesn’t, then move on to the next brand. If all goes well I would then feed that food and start looking for the next protein within that brand you want to try. Every time you are done with one bag you move on to the next. Every time with a different protein within the same brand. Keep a detailed list of the foods you have tried and what, if any, reactions they had. Once you’ve exhausted the different proteins in your first brand then you move on to the next brand and start rotating through their proteins that your dogs can eat. Then you move on to the next brand. Before you know it you may be able to have 4 or 5 foods that your dogs can eat and do well on. You can then continue to rotate within these brands and proteins every time you have to buy a bag of food. You can then start rotating with the different foods you have in the freezer every day, every couple of days, every meal as I do, whatever. I rotate as often as I do because Katie can’t tolerate anything for more than a meal or two. She probably can at this point but since I’ve been doing it this way for so long and they’re all just fine with it and because I wouldn’t eat the same thing for breakfast and dinner I figure why should they. I also can’t afford for her to become allergic to anything more than she already is. In rotating foods if some ingredient bothers her a little or there is a pro-inflammatory ingredient in the food (which I try my best to avoid but not always possible) then she’s only getting it for one meal. Rotating foods for all dogs is, in my opinion, the healthiest way to feed canines but especially for canines with food intolerances.

Please keep in mind that the log (list) is very very important. In keeping a list it will also better inform you if your dog is having an issue with the protein or is it another ingredient in the food. If you feed rabbit and Bella has issues with it and then you move on to goat and the same thing happens, then you have to compare the ingredient labels of both those foods and see what other ingredients do both foods have in common other than the protein. When starting to gather foods for dogs with allergies it’s easy to assume that it’s the labeled protein in the food and keep moving from food to food thinking your dog is intolerant of every single protein. Typically that’s not the case. It’s that we forgot that they could be allergic or intolerant of any other ingredient in the foods. So it’s important…..keep a log of foods you feed and the ingredients in the foods. You can print out the ingredient list from their web sites or you can take a picture of the ingredient label on the bag itself for reference purposes.

“Toppers” by the way is just a term that’s used meaning anything that you would put on top of the food you already have in their bowl. I would suggest you not use any of them at all until you have some foods that you can easily feed to your dogs with no allergy symptoms. You’ll confuse the issue if you start adding other things. You won’t know which or what is causing the symptoms. I do add things to my dogs foods but I did not in the beginning. Had to find the foods first. Then started adding little things to see what the affect would be.

Plain Kefir (you can buy it in grocery stores) acts like plain yogurt in that it contains friendly “probiotic” bacteria that helps the gut. I will add here that my allergy girl, Katie, cannot have kefir, yogurt or cheese. Actually I’ve yet to find a probiotic that doesn’t contain something (yeast, or whatever) that she doesn’t have issues with. She’s too intolerant of them and the craziness starts all over again. Not saying that your dogs will react, but owners of dogs with food sensitivities have to be very careful of every single thing that eat. Their immune systems are pretty much in a weakened state especially until their immune system improves on better foods, less toxins and carbs to deal with. 70% of the immune system is in the gut.

Allergy symptoms can be skin issues and/or digestive issues as is the case with Katie. Once I cleared up all her food issues her digestive and skin issues all disappeared.

Once on line please check out all pro-inflammatory foods, fruits and veggies. Allergies are an inflammatory based issue so you need to avoid those foods as best you can. It’s not always easy to eliminate each and every single one but do your best to avoid as much as possible. That’s also a good reason for rotation. If one of your foods does have pro-inflammatory ingredients your dog will not be getting them for too long a time.

If you find, eventually, that your dogs are not allergic to sardines then you can give them sardines packed in water with no salt added (canned in the grocery store) two or three times a week (as a “topper”) on top or mixed in with the food in their bowls. Sardines are an excellent form of Omega 3 which most foods are lacking. Most foods have plenty of Omega 6’s and not enough Omega 3’s to balance them out. That is true most especially in kibble foods. On the days that I don’t give my dogs sardines I keep a bottle refrigerated of Nature’s Logic Sardine oil. Oils go rancid fairly quickly so it’s best kept refrigerated and also says it on the bottle I believe. Anyway, once I’ve put their meals in their bowls, and on the days I don’t add sardines, I splash a little of the sardine oil on top of their food in their bowls and promptly put the bottle back in fridge and immediately give the dogs their bowls of food. I believe the oil has the dosing on the bottle. Please do not give your dogs salmon oil as we already know that they had issues with the salmon food. Also, salmon and tuna have the most amount of mercury in them due to their long lives. I don’t feed either because of those reasons. Sardines and krill have the least as they have very short lives and very short digestive tracks.

Just for your info I realize that I didn’t tell you what type of dogs I have or anything other than Katie’s allergies. So, Hannah (my avatar) is my 15 1/2 year old Maltese. Katie is my 5 1/2 year old Maltipoo and Lola is my 5 1/2 year old Yorkipoo.

One more thing. I no longer have my dogs vaccinated. I do the titers on the core vaccines. Rabies vaccine in my area is only required every three years. Though recently I’ve learned that the county I live in will accept rabies titers. Very few counties in the country are on board with titers for rabies. I don’t believe that any dog should be vaccinated unnecessarily. Dogs with allergies shouldn’t be vaccinated. Of course, I am in favor of doing all the initial puppy vaccinations spaced out as they should be. Each vaccine should be done separately and not the three in one type. It’s too much of an overload on their systems. After those initially puppy shots which, if memory serves me, ends when they are about a year old. After that having your vet do titers to check their antibodies to the core illnesses will let you know when and if they have to be vaccinated again.

[Jon h]

I think the reason you are receiving so much negativity is you are seeming to conform to a lot of the stereotypes of vegetarian feeders (ie: lack of knowledge of canine nutrition, lack of canine medical knowledge, lack any sort of formal nutritional training and yet propose that they know more than their vet and people with PhDs in the field canine nutrition). Vegetarian diets should only be imposed on a dog if there are medical reasons to do so (ie: some sort of allergy) and I personally haven’t read any cases of dogs allergic to all meat sources so I highly doubt that is a legitimate argument in your case. Now if you are switching your dog to a vegetarian diet because of your own moral reasoning or some ill founded notion that vegetarian diets are healthier than diets that include meat then I would strongly reconsider being a dog owner.

Lets take a quick look at your arguments. First (in regards to your dog being obese before), a dog becoming obese is almost always the direct result of an owner not properly managing their dogs caloric intake to activity level ratio. Not because meat was magically making their dog fat. Switching to vegetarian meals most likely significantly reduced the dog’s caloric intake therefore attributing their obesity to meat is a really poor argument. Second, in regards to your dog always being sick. If their sickness was food related your dog may have had an allergy you were not aware of and switching to a vegetarian diet eliminated that allergen. Saying that this means that vegetarian diets are better than diets that include meat is a poor founded conclusion from your observations.

Third (and this one really concerns me), no… coconut water is not some magic fluid that will cure all ailments, to draw the conclusion that coconut water is such a strong medicinal product that it cured your dog overnight is logic I’d expect to see on late night infomercials, not from someone who claims to know more than their vet about canine medicine.

I understand that this doesn’t directly answer the question you originally asked but I am a strong proponent of making medical and nutritional decisions using science and always in the best interest of your dog (even if it goes against something you believe in).

Some of things you’ve said really concern me. At the end of the day if you can’t have a science based discussion with your vet on why you chose a vegetarian diet for your dog then that should be a flashing red light for you that you haven’t done the proper research and don’t have the knowledge/qualification to be making such a drastic change to your dogs nutrition source….

[Naturella]

Hey, Joe, if you’re even still here. Although I entirely second Melissaandcrew’s statement of fact that dogs are carnivores, I just want to throw my 2 cents in there.

First off, PERSONALLY, I would not feed a dog a vegetarian diet. That being said, I also believe that if something “ain’t broke”, it doesn’t need fixing. So if your dogs are doing fine on a vegetarian diet, then hey, it is what seems to work for them… THAT being said, this may be just temporary. Because I don’t feel that a vegetarian diet is species-appropriate (as Melissaandcrew said, herbivores need to eat plant matter, not meat, and it is the total opposite with carnivores, but the same idea), I would not lie to your vet because should an issue arise, it may well be the diet’s fault. If you were feeding, say, balanced raw meat-based diet and your vet did not approve of that, I would probably choose to respectfully not discuss my dog’s nutrition with the vet. But because I see the diet that you feed as deficient in the main thing dogs need – animal protein source in their diet – I would probably put it out there, and as long as your dogs remain healthy, I would respectfully defend it to the vet as a choice of their diet. But definitely disclose it, because there is a risk of the dogs becoming unhealthy down the way should they continue to eat species-inappropriate food.

And we do not mean to bash anyone – on the contrary – I believe that we all do what we perceive as best for our companions. But we can always learn from each other, and we can all do better. Hope this helps.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Naturella.

[dana i]

Hi! I’ve been reading this forum all day today, but am overwhelmed by all the choices. I’d really love to hear people’s actual experiences and thoughts– what is on paper does not always match what makes the dogs happy and healthy.

I have two lab mix dogs– both rescues.
Diesel is a 1 year old Lab/Shephard mix who has allergies. 65# dog
Dudley is a 1 1/2 year old lab/Greyhound mix who has gas issues when he eats ANYTHING other than the current food… (even treats) 83# dog

They were both given horrible diets before they came to me.
I have them on Science Diet Lamb and Rice Large Breed formula.

At the time, it’s the ONLY thing that I found that helped Diesel’s allergy symptoms (they are completely gone on this food but when I try anything else it comes back) and Dudley’s gas is now a very rare thing on this food.

However, reading it seems that people don’t like this one and that there may be better out there… And the fact that when I went to buy it today I found it went up in price AGAIN. uugh. Maybe now is a good time to switch…

I want what is best for them, with budget kinda on the mind at the same time.

Right now, it takes us 11 days to go through a 33 pound bag of Science Diet Lamb and Rice large breed formula dry food and used to cost us around $45 a bag but did just go up to about $50.

I’d really love to get them something better. Maybe something that also makes their poop a little smaller too? (I know–wishful thinking? LOL)

Any suggestions based on the gas/allergies?
I priced raw diet– which I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to do, but it’s way out of our price range from what I am reading.

I CAN and will supplement a little bit of our cooked food on top (If I can avoid the gas and allergy issues– that will take a little experimenting)….

I have a feed store 1 mile from my house that sells some food but he’s kinda expensive on some items. I also live near Petco, Petsmart and have Amazon prime… I live in Texas, suburb of Dallas if that helps.

Any thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated!

[Pam P]

I know this isn’t food related, but it seems your dog has some serious issues and it might not be all due to food. Pet healthcare is a lot like traditional healthcare or sickness care (as I call it)….it’s big business. Dogs are way over vaccinated, and traditional vaccines have mercury, formaldehyde and other toxic substances that can affect a dog’s health over time. Metal toxicity is a serious issue as they aren’t eliminated from the body. They are stored in the organs and joints. The core vaccines are usually good for life. A titer test can determine the antibody levels. A holistic vet uses vaccines that have no mercury or heavy metals. My holistic vet detoxifies the dog immediately after giving a vaccination. If a dog does need the 3 core vaccines, he does them in 2-3 week intervals so the dog isn’t overloaded all at once. That’s why it’s not a bad idea to do the kefir diet for 30 days or more to detoxify the dog and get all the junk out of their system, and then gradually get them back on a very clean, healthy food. I still give our Mastiff all the oils I mentioned previously; just no kibble or meat. I also give her a tsp of organic turmeric at each feeding. Turmeric is a powerful anti-inflammatory, and there is obviously some serious inflammation going on with your dog. I mix it with the kefir and she downs it. I start with a small amount and build to a tsp each meal. Just like with humans, a detox diet can make them feel worse before they get better; as all the toxins are being released and coming out of the body, the dog can appear worse for a while. I detoxified the Mastiff gradually starting with Nature’s Logic, then raw, then kefir. She’s a senior dog so didn’t want to overload her system. The kidneys and liver are the detoxifying organs so didn’t want to take a chance to overload them. Just some more suggestions.

[deja]

We have a dog recently diagnosed with epilepsy and I’m on the search for a new food because I suspect the one she’s on now contains these preservatives (a prescription Science Diet food). I’ve been finding it very difficult to find definitive information on whether foods use BHA/BHT/Ethoxyquin. I figured people on this website might have more experience/information.

Do you know of dog foods that the company has stated do not contain BHA, BHT, or Ethoxyquin? Either on their websites or through response to email inquiries.

Personally I’m also looking for non-raw food that does not contain rosemary (not easy to find!), and is also not too high in fat (less than 17% preferably). But I think I can narrow those down myself more easily, so I’m mostly looking for help with the preservatives. So far Life’s Abundance is the only one I’ve found that also meets my other requirements. Natural Balance says no BHA/BHT/ethoxyquin as well on their rolled food and some treats, but I can’t find comments on any of their other food.

[Pam P]

I feed my dog Answers fermented raw food and kefir. My son’s Mastiff mix had such itchy skin she had to go on antibiotics for a wound she scratched raw that wouldn’t heal. I started her for one month on Nature’s Logic Sardine. Nature’s Logic is one of a very few that doesn’t use synthetic vitamins and minerals. The synthetic vitamins and minerals come mostly from industrial waste such as coal tar for one. They aren’t good for humans and they aren’t good for pets. She started detoxifying on Nature’s Logic. Then I put her on Answers Fermented Raw food for a month. The itching became less. Now she is on only Kefir for a month and her itching has just about stopped. The kefir is a detox diet. She hasn’t lost weight. Her energy is 300% higher. I’ll see how she does after another 2 weeks to see if we gradually get her back on food or keep her on kefir for another 2 weeks. The key is to clean and detoxify the system and then to make sure the immune system is strengthened. Allergies are an immune system issue. I also give my dogs organic extra virgin coconut oil, sardine oil, pumpkin seed oil, and royal jelly. Royal jelly is excellent for the skin and coat. Its what the queen bee is fed. I learned that from an owner of champion show dogs. I have also given them canned sardines. Frozen sardines can be purchased in bulk online. They have small bones which are loaded with calcium. If I was going to feed kibble, I would lean towards Nature’s Logic or one that doesn’t use synthetic vitamins and minerals. They are a little lower on the meat, so I would add gizzards and some raw meat to it, preferably a balanced frozen meat. There are several to chose from….Nature’s Logic, Primal, Instinct, and others. I hope this gives you some ideas.

[Dori]

Hi John P. First let me say that I’m a commercial raw feeder grain free foods so I’m not going to really be of much help with kibble. I do know that a lot of people on this site consider Acana and Orijen made by Champion to be a quality company. The only kibble that, on rare occasions, I have put in rotation is Nature’s Logic Kibble but only the Sardine. All others contain either some sort of beef or poultry (eggs). One of my dogs has many many food intolerances and sensitivities. The list is quite long so I won’t bore you as they don’t pertain to your dog. But she is highly intolerant of all things poultry which includes all fowl. Below is a partial list of what I feed my three dogs and they all do very well on them, I’ve left out any of the beef that I feed because your dog has an intolerance to beef. I feed all my dogs the same food because of my allergy girl, Katie. I feed a rotational diet so here goes.

OC Raw: Fish & Produce Patties, Lamb Patties, Rabbit Patties, Goat Patties

Primal Raw Formulas and/or Primal Pronto Formulas: Venison Patties, Rabbit Patties

Vital Essentials Raw: Fish Patties, Rabbit Patties

Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw: Venison (also contains lamb), Rabbit (also contains pork)

Stella & Chewy’s Raw: Venison, Lamb, Rabbit
I’m not a great fan of Stella & Chewy’s but will feed it if I’m in a pinch.

Natures Logic Kibble: Sardine (It contains millet which is a pseudo-grain. Katie can’t tolerate grains but for some reason the millet in Nature’s Logic doesn’t seem to bother her. Could be because I feed it so infrequently and never for more than one meal every so often.

I’m an advocate of rotational feeding for my three dogs so I rotate their food pretty much with every meal and don’t feed them the same protein without a three day break in between. It’s the only way I can get around Katie’s food issues. Dogs with allergies should also avoid corn, white potatoes, rice (all), soy. They are all pro-inflammatory so you’re basically feeding the allergies and making things worse. You need to feed non-inflammatory foods and ingredients as best you can. It’s pretty difficult to avoid every single thing all the time but it helps a great deal to do your best.

Hope some of this has helped. I’m sure someone else will chime in soon to help with kibble feeding.

Oops! Don’t forget about checking to see what’s in the treats you give your dogs. For treats I only give pieces of fruits (no grapes) and veggies. No seeds or pits with the fruit please (toxic), I also peel apples and cucumbers. I don’t feed any commercial treats due to grains and too many recalls for my liking. Too many pesticides used on both. Good Luck and if I can answer any questions please ask.

I just wanted to mention that the only fish that Katie cannot eat is salmon. All other fish foods she’s fine with but is very sensitive to salmon.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[John P]

My four-year-old Wheaten Terrier (wheatable really – dominant wheaten mix) has serious allergies, skin issues, and food sensitives to most grains and several proteins. He started on a poultry-based food (Organix) but became sensitive after two years. After trial-and-error and an allergy test, we switched to a fish-based food (Natural Mix). However, recently he has become sensitive to it. I am desperate to find a food with a new protein. It breaks my heart to watch him itch and scratch all day. My vet is wonderful, but beyond sending me to this site, she is as desperate as I am.

Right now, I’m feeding him a raw diet consisting mainly of quality meat leftovers I buy from the butcher (pork and venison, mainly), but I can’t afford to do that much longer. I subscribed to the Editor’s Choice, but almost every food is poultry-based or enriched with poultry meals. I noticed Acana foods might have some alternative proteins (such as pork). Does anyone have experience with them?

I know he is definitely allergic to most red meats, including beef and bison. The poultry-based food he ate contained turkey and chicken. The fish-based food he ate contained salmon. He has never had any issues with pork or venison. I am wondering if someone might have experience with a dog who became intolerant of one poultry protein but could tolerate another (say I could try switching him to duck or pheasant)?

Otherwise, do any of you have favorite foods containing pork, venison, rabbit, or lamb? Do you have any other protein recommendations? Do you have any other suggestions period?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your time.

Best,

John

[Susan]

I think Laleah should give the limited ingredient Natural Balance a go, it may just work for her little dog….Why I mentioned IBD as its a inflammatory disease like skin allergies…sometimes dogs will have both illnesses like Patch has, once your fix their diet you fix everything..
Some dogs that have skin problems the NB Kangaroo & Potatoes or the Duck & Rabbit limited ingredients works great for their dogs & clears their skin problems up, just cause it has low protein it gets a lower star rating…… Every dog is different with their skin problems, what works for your dog will not work for my dog (Raw)….. Patch does not eat NB he can’t eat potatoes gets real bad Colitis…
I’m sick of Marie always having a go at my post, she has done it for 2 year now, I’ve had enough…..if I see something that I don’t agree with or a mistake or what ever, I just MIND my own business & move on….maybe take your dogs out for a nice long walk & smell the beautiful flowers….
Have a nice day…

[Dori]

Weezerweeks. Freeze dried that I have fed and will continue with in rotation with commercial raw diets are Primal, Vital Essentials, Natures Variety, Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance. Fair warning though…Grandma Lucy’s seems to produce larger stools. I think it has more fiber than the others, also I can’t discern any ingredients in their poop for that food. The girls do really well on all these freeze dried foods. I’ve tried others but I didn’t care for them. The girls ate them but, then again, they’ll eat everything. The only food Hannah has ever turned down in her entire life and just would not eat was Dr. Harvey’s Oracle Tripe. Which was funny because she loves their tripe treats. She liked the tripe bits (treats) in the food but not the food itself.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Sandra,
Why the correlation between what you cooked and the vomiting? Could have been a virus the poodle got from walking and sniffing something, maybe because of the age his/her system is changing,and possibly something in your home cooked meal doesn’t agree with him/her anymore. Is the poodle off the meds? You say he still feels bad,all day only after meals?
If after meals you mast have to go bland very bland boiled beef with a cooked sweet potato or plain canned pumpkin NOT THE PIE FILLING. If inflammation is brewing stay away from boiled rice. Please don’t get me started on vets and nutrition, if your daughter goes back i guarantee it will be suggested a veterinary diet be purchased.
I know my older fur-kid went through the same thing in Dec started throwing up every day after eating she can’t tolerate kibble anymore started her on the honest kitchen dehydrated food and commercial raw -big difference so far.
It’s all a process of elimination and that sad to say means no treats either until you can get to the bottom of the problem,BLAND BLAND for a few weeks then slowly very slowly introduce 1 thing at a time. Kibble may be to hard on the puppy’s system.

[Susan]

Hi sounds like your girl has IBD, I read on a link now I cant find it, it said you shouldn’t give dogs enzymes especially if they have a healthy gut, there 2 types of enzymes the plant enzymes or Porcine enzymes….I’d stop the kibble, my boy has IBD & has so many problems with kibbles, just finished trying another kibble & he was sooooo ill, bad acid reflux, now has a real sore throat from the acid reflux, vet wants him on just Turkey breast mince mix in 1 raw egg, then I make about 4 loaves & put on a baking tray & bake 20mins…just for 4-6 weeks to give his stomach a rest, I freeze section & also boil sweet potato boil pumkin & freeze, I boil some Quinoa as its gluten free,….he has stop scatching & his red paws have gone & the red under his chin has gone… I’m finding Patch needs a gluten free diet & has real bad food allergies that has caused his IBD & Colitis when he eats something that he’s allergic too, he has his bloody poos cause the food is irritating his bowel..look up gluten free & low residue foods & stick with those foods also don’t rotate too many foods as you wont know what is causing the itchy skin….
I have found foods that agrees with him & give for breakfast & dinner & something else that agrees with him for lunch & a late dinner, he has 4 small meals thru the day, we found this works best for Patch. also use Malaseb medicated shampoo I found to be the best…. Patch does not take any heartworm meds, he cant take any worm meds only Milbemax all wormer every 6months & I dread the day its due he eats grass the next day & feels sick all day but doesnt have diarrhea on the Milbemax, vet said its very mild, Patch can not use Advantage flea spot on… only Frontline plus, as Frontline only penetrates 2 layers of the skin, where other flea spot ons penetrate thru into their blood, Patch nilly died from Advantage…you name it Patch cannot take it, its all to do with his IBD…..
So I have learnt LESS IS BEST….

[Susan]

Hi again, here’s a link for a grainfree gluten free diets
http://www.holvet.net/raw_pet_diet.html

[Susan]

Hi, do you have the time to cook, I have Patch on Turkey Breast mince 1 kilo mix in 1 raw egg then I get a baking tray & make about 4 turkey loaf put in the oven & its ready in 20mins, then I cool & freeze, I also boil sweet potatoes & pumkin & freeze, I put in a blender & blend… to 1 cup I add 1 spoon no fat greek yogurt, Patch has stopped his scratching & red paws & red chin have all gone & he’s only been on the turkey breast mix for 1 week.. vet said to feed this diet 4- 6 weeks until I can find something that will agree with him, she said it wont hurt that its not balanced, its only for 1 month……now I’m looking at a brand called “Sunday Pets” its a New Zealand brand biscuits they look like a weet bix, but are smaller bits that u break in half, they are for dogs with skin problems & for dogs that don’t chew their kibble & gulp… I got a sample & Patch went nuts when he smelt the biscuits.. I’m trying the Deliganics cause they have only 5% fat, Patch needs a low fat diet cause of his stomach problems…
http://www.sundaypets.com/tasty-holistic-grain-free

[james y]

Hello newb here looking for a little info.

First a little background
My 9 month old pitbull, maple has recently been having problems. She undoubtedly had worms and was scratching alot and losing hair. At first i was feeding her purina dog chow and she was doing fine. Then the wife brought home pedigree and thats when the hair loss started. So i instantly thought the dog had mange and began treating her for it. I also read that a raw diet would boost the immune system so i did that too. I fed her venison mostly, with raw eggs and gave her vitamins everyday. She cleared up and we started back with the unused portion of pedigree. Well she broke out in hives!

Ok so the dog is allergic to dog food…just my luck. A vet friend told me to try bil-jac frozen food so i did for a couple weeks. She was doing great on it! we got rid of the worms and shes putting on wieght and her coat is awesome! Although the frozen food isnt very convenient so i just googled best grain free dog food and found this site. I came across a name i recognized “blue buffalo” and this very site said it wss a five star food. So i purchased 20 pounds of the grain free wilderness red meat puppy food. It was pretty pricey, as a matter of fact i figure i could buy hamburger for $3 a pound but its so much easier than having to refrigerate or prepare raw food.

2 days into feeding and she seems to be doing just fine. I dont monitor poo, so i cant say anything about it.

Anyhow now im seeing all this bad stuff on the web about blue dog food….and something about a lawsuit with purina?? Is there any truth to these claims about the food hurting dogs or is it maybe a bunch of hired posters or something? If the stuff wasnt $60 a bag i would just throw it out and go back to the biljac.

[crazy4cats]

I was going by this that was posted in the Whole Dog Journal:
Here are my sardine recommendations for adult dogs. Feed twice this much to puppies and pregnant or lactating females.

Dog’s 3.75-oz can
Weight sardines
5 lbs 1/4 can per week
15 lbs 1/2 can per week
25 lbs 5/8 can per week
50 lbs 1 can per week
100 lbs 1 3/4 cans per week

A 3.75-ounce can of sardines has about 200 calories, so reduce the amount of dry food given on “sardine days” accordingly. Rule of thumb: One can of sardines in water has about the same number of calories as ½ cup of most dog foods.

You can substitute canned wild Alaska pink salmon (the bones are edible), oysters (a great source of zinc, especially important for pregnant and lactating females), and other fresh, frozen, or canned wild ocean fish for sardines. Pacific oysters are probably better than Gulf of Mexico oysters, especially after the BP oil spill in 2010, and safer than canned oysters from China. Never feed raw salmon or trout, especially Pacific salmon, because it may contain a bacterium that can kill dogs.
But…. now, I’ve pulled up my ABC diet and it does show two cans per week. So how about 1 1/2! LOL!

Here is the link to the whole dog journal: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html

Either way, it is great that you are considering adding them to your dog’s food. Good luck!

[pugmomsandy]

I’m fortunate enough to have 3 dogs and no UTI’s the past 7 years. I feed a high moisture diet (raw and canned), never just plain dry kibble. I also give a bladder supplement with cranberry and d-mannose (and other herbs) and I give probiotics. I also used to monitor my dogs’ urine pH using home pH test strips. Hopefully someone who’s actually dealt with UTI’s will give some input.

http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/bladder-health-for-pets/

https://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/struvites-crystals-urinary-tract-infections-treatment-and-diet/

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/10/22/these-3-things-may-indicate-your-pet-has-a-bladder-problem.aspx

http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html