[naynay]

I was at Walmart the other day and noticed that pure balance added a grain free dry food and from what I could see from the ingredient list it looks like its pretty good but there is no review on it are you currently working on a review for it?

[murphy625]

Great….one last question…I think I’ll try the kibble of Pure Balance, a small bag…and a can (the cans are so large..), then find a decent raw, or dehydrated food, to alternate…any suggestions? I guess I’ll get bones at the butcher..I love this site!
J

[Hound Dog Mom]

What is your budget? Unfortunately – while healthier, as Patty pointed out – most dry food alternatives (dehydrated, freeze-dried, canned and raw) are much more expensive than dry dog food. If it’s not possible to feed an entirely raw, dehydrated, freeze-dried or canned diet you can “top” the kibble with these foods or alternate (i.e. raw for breakfast and dry for dinner). Healthy leftovers like lean meat, steamed veggies, eggs or plain yogurt are also a cheap way to dress up kibble and boost the species-appropriateness – just keep the addition of unbalanced toppers to 20% or less of the meal. Unfortunately dehydrated, freeze-dried and commercial raw foods would probably be off the table for someone on a budget but there are some quality budget friendly canned foods. Walmart sells a food called Pure Balance which is rated 5 stars and costs $1 per can, Tractor Supply sells a food called 4Health which is rated 4.5 stars and costs $0.99 per can and Costco sells a canned food called Kirkland Cuts & Gravy which costs $0.79 per can. Home cooked and homemade raw can be done fairly cheaply – but homemade diets do take some research. I agree with Patty about the lack of dental benefits with dry food as well – it’s just a myth that dry food cleans the teeth. The only way to assure dental health is to brush your dog’s teeth regularly or have regular dental cleanings at your vet. Raw bones can aid in dental health to a certain degree, but they’re no substitution for teeth brushing.

[Hound Dog Mom]

The only pre-mixes I know of that are potato free are Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance, Birkdale Pet Mix, Better in the Raw and Balance It. There’s also My Natural K9 and Wysong’s Call of the Wild but they both contain chicken and if I recall correctly he’s sensitive to chicken?

[pugmomsandy]

Start with something like AvoDerm Revolving Menu. It’s single protein and “medium” protein. Other “medium” foods are Nutrisource grain free Heartland Select and Seafood Select or PureVita. If budget is not an issue, check out The Honest Kitchen Zeal. It’s grain free, potato free and single protein (fish) but “high” protein or Sojo’s grain free or Natural Balance LID (both single protein, low protein). I would just recommend a simple ingredient food for a few weeks to see if it helps. If she does ok with that type of food, then slowly add a different food and watch for reactions. Also give probiotics. This will help seed the gut with beneficial organisms for better digestion and less gas. Herbsmith has an herbal allergy formula and quercetin is for allergies too. She can always work her way up to a 5 star food. Some dogs just can’t do it right off the bat.

[DogFoodie]

HDM’s list is really meant for large breed puppies, for whom you need to control the Calcium.

The great thing is, you’ve have lots more options now that your pups are older. : )

A couple of brands I’d suggest you also check into would be NutriSource and Earthborn Holistics. They both go just outside of your price range though. I use and like them both, a lot. A brand I’ve never used, but continue to hear great things about and it’s know to be a very budget friendly food is Victor. Oh, and actually, there’s also Rachael Ray Zero Grain Nutrish that you can pick up at Wal-Mart that’s also a good budget friendly choice along with Wal-Mart’s new Ol’ Roy Pure Balance products.

[Whitney]

Thanks for the info Betsy. I will ask the Vet and then look into it. That was very helpful! And April, I thought about that last night and was gonna look again today. I had looked before but then changed my mind because I thought I could deal with the “inconvenience” of driving 45 min. one way. Well I own a diesel truck and I am a homeschool Mom so we don’t have the extra money in the budget to drive to get dog food. Hence the Tractor Supply 4Health brand.I am trying to get Cal. level info on that. They are doing very well on the grain free as far as tummy goes but I am at Wal Mart more than I am Tractor Supply. That is why I wanted to try Pure Balance. They don’t list the Cal. on the bag either BUT I found a phone number. Oh, and what about the Phosphorus? Someone said that there should be certain levels of that along with Cal.? Just wondering.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Whitney –

I’m not sure if the calcium levels in 4Health Grain-Free or Pure Balance are okay or not – I didn’t look into these foods because they’re only rated 3.5 stars and therefore didn’t meet the criteria of my list. So if you want to feed these I would suggest contacting the companies to obtain the calcium levels. If she’s still a pup and already experiencing pain I would discuss this with your vet – while it could be an injury it is likely Pano or severe HD (it would have to be pretty severe for the dog to be showing symptoms at such a young age). I would recommend supplementing with some natural anti-inflammatories such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric (curcumin), bromelain, omega 3’s, tart cherry, or white willow and/or high doses of omega 3’s. Now may also be a good time to start a joint maintenance supplement such as glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hyaluronic acid, green lipped mussel and/or esterified fatty acids. I’d also suggest avoiding grains entirely as grains are inflammatory.

[Whitney]

Hi there! I have a Mastiff mix and I have been feeding 4 health grain free because the regular gave everyone gas. She has been doing fine but I want to switch to something more readily available. I bought Pure Balance today, the chicken formula. I was wondering if you think it’s still ok her being a large breed puppy and all? I know, or at least I think that I remember, that you said I should feed her an adult food so she doesn’t grow so fast and have joint issues. Just want you opinion 🙂 And she is having some aches and pains on occasion, in her hips. Should I give her some joint juice or something. Doggie aspirin?? Thank you!

[InkedMarie]

You’ll have much better luck if you can shop at a pet store or online. If you have to shop at a grocery store, look for Nutrisca. If at Walmart, Pure Balance. Be careful, you have a young dog that will end up very picky if you don’t stop this now. Put down food, leave it down for 15 min. Pick up what is not eaten, dog gets nothing else til the next eal.

[Mom2Cavs]

Of the ones you mentioned I like Core, but I would think it’s the most expensive of the lot. Nutrisource is a decent priced food for the quality, imho. I personally would not feed any thing from Natura (Innova) due to the recalls for salmonella they’ve been having lately, and especially if you have kids that play a lot with the dogs. Taste of the Wild is a popular food, even my daughter and son-in-law feed it, but it is made by Diamond and they have poor recall history. My daughter’s dog has never had a problem with it, though. She also feeds the brand to her cats. Tractor Supply, if there’s one near you, has a great grain free food that’s made by Ainsworth….their grain inclusive is also made by Diamond. It’s their private brand called 4Health. The largest bag runs around 36.00 for 28 lbs. or more. Their canned food is only .99 a can. Great bargain, imho. But, of the three you mentioned I would use Core or Nutrisource (NS is cheaper than Core). There are also other affordable foods out there, if you have access to them. Some can be ordered online and delivered right to your door with little or no shipping costs, as well. Wal Mart has a newer food called Pure Balance that others say is good and inexpensive. Rachel Ray has a food, also available at Wal Mart, called Zero Grains that’s not bad. Fromm has a Classic line that’s less expensive. Merrick has Whole Earth Farms. I’m using Holistic Select and it’s not that bad of a price, either, especially for the grain inclusive. Anyway, I hope I haven’t muddied the waters. If I were you, I would look at the 4-5 star foods on this site and check them out for price and availability. It is also not bad idea to pick a few and try them out or rotate the brands to give your dog some variety. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi soccermom7 –

Do not add Preference to a balanced kibble. Preference is designed for the addition of boneless meat. Meat is high in phosphorus but has negligible amounts of calcium (dogs need calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio) therefore pre-mixes such as Preference are very high in calcium to compensation for the addition of meat, kibble already has a balanced C:P ratio so adding Preference would potentially throw it off. Additionally, if anything you should be adding more meat to kibble not fruits and vegetables – kibble is too high in plant matter as it is.

As far as a kibble replacement for THK – there is not kibble replacement. The Honest Kitchen is a minimally processed food and about as close to a raw natural or home cooked diet as you can get with feeding commercial food. THK even has some enzymes still intact. Kibble is highly processed. I can understand wanting to cut costs because THK is pricey (I used to feed it) but, unfortunately, going to kibble is going to be a huge decrease in quality.

My recommendations would be to consider a homemade diet (raw or cooked, whatever you’re more comfortable with). There are many books available with balanced recipes. Homemade diets can be done very cheaply. When I was feeding two of my bloodhounds THK I was spending over $500 per month. I’m now feeding them a homemade raw diet, which is even healthier than THK, and spending just under $200 per month. You may want to check out Grandma Lucy’s – it’s another dehydrated type food similar to THK and is a bit more reasonably priced. Another option would be to feed kibble for one meal and THK for the other or to “top” the kibble with some rehydrated THK. You could also look into canned foods – many canned foods are expensive however there are some really reasonably priced quality canned foods available. Pure Balance (available at Walmart) it is rated 5 stars and costs between $1 and $1.25 per can. Costco sells Kirkland Cuts in Gravy which is rated 5 stars for $0.79 per can. 4Health which is rated 4.5 stars is available at Tractor Supply for $0.99 per can. If you added an enzyme supplement to one of these foods it would be nearly as good as THK and much better than kibble. If you do find that you need to go with an entirely kibble diet, I’d pick a 5 star kibble, rotate brands often for variety and add some fresh foods whenever possible (leftover meat, eggs, yogurt, tinned sardines, etc.).

[pugmomsandy]

ProPac and Pure Balance and Victor are budget friendly as is Whole Earth Farms. It’s (Whole Earth Farms) $39 for a 30 or 35 lb bag. Nutrisource grain inclusive line is also budget friendly and they might have a buy 10 get one free offer. I’m not sure.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you can get Whole Earth Farms canned food it’s made by Merrick, rated 5 stars and a lot cheaper than their original line – I generally see it priced around $1.60 per can. Walmart also has a new line of food called Pure Balance that’s rated 5 stars – the grain-inclusive varieties are $1 per can and the grain-free 95% meat is $1.25 per can.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hey Woodcutter –

I would go for it if your dogs seem to be doing well on it. Looks like a great deal for a quality food. Some other reasonably priced quality foods to give you more options are Pure Balance – Dr. Mike just rated their canned foods 5 stars and they’re available at Walmart the grain-inclusive is $1 per can and the 95% meat is $1.25 per can, Cosco carries Kirkland Cuts & Gravy which is $0.79 per can and rated 5 stars and Tractor Supply carries 4Health for $0.99 per can which is rated 4.5 stars.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sandnmila –

You don’t want to use Preference with a grind. Preference is designed to be used with boneless meat to balance the calcium to phosphorus ratio and if you add it to a grind (which contains bone and already has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio) you will throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio. You also wouldn’t want to give Preference and a multivitamin – Preference essentially is a multivitamin (+ fruits and veggies). If you’re feeding grinds I would recommend cooking and pureeing your own fruits and veggies (cheapest) or buying baby food blends (I do this when I’m lazy, I buy the pouched fruit and veggie only blends such as Peter Rabbit Organics, Sprout, Earth’s Best and Ella’s Kitchen).

How often are you feeding grinds? If the grinds are 50% or less of Mila’s diet and the other portion is a balanced commercial food you’d be fine just giving her the grind plus a whole food supplement (such as the Nature’s Logic All Food Fortifier that Sandy mentioned) and forgoing a multi. I only recommend adding a multi if someone is feeding a predominantly homemade diet and doesn’t know how to or doesn’t want to take the time to properly balance the diet using whole foods.

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI corrielainedd –

Wow, a Saint Berdoodle. I’d never heard of such a dog but I just googled it – pretty neat! Growing large and giant breed puppies need controlled levels of calcium as excess calcium has been linked to developmental orthopedic disease. When puppies are very young they are unable to regulate calcium absorption, they gain this ability around the age of 8 months. So I would say, given the fact that your pup is already 8 months old and through the most rapid phase of growth there’s really no reason to start watching calcium levels now. I would just suggest focusing on getting him on some high quality foods that fall within your budget. Look for a food approved for growth or all life stages – there’s no reason to go with a large breed puppy specific formula. Your adult dog can eat the same food – just be sure to adjust portions accordingly because growth and all life stages foods tend to be more calorie dense. Professional is a decent food for a good price, however it’s manufactured by Diamond who has frequent recalls. Some reasonably priced grain-free foods that you may want to check out: Victor, Earthborn, Hi-Tek Naturals Grain-Free, NutriSource, 4Health (sold at Tractor Supply), Pure Balance Grain-Free (sold at Walmart), Rachel Ray Zero Grain, Authority Grain-Free (sold at Petsmart). Some foods with grains that are budget friendly: Victor, Hi-Tek Naturals, Whole Earth Farms, Pure Balance, Fromm Classics, Healthwise, NutriSource and Natural Life. The only thing I would tell you to be aware of when looking for a cheaper grain-free food is that, unfortunately, many budget friendly grain-free foods are actually worse than grain-inclusive foods at a similar price point. Grain-free doesn’t necessarily mean better and many companies just replace the grains with white potatoes, tapioca or peas which doesn’t make a superior product. Try to maximize protein. I ‘d also recommend picking a few foods and rotating rather than sticking to only one.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi CharlieBrown –

It’s great that you’re looking to switch your pup to a better food 🙂

Victor is budget friendly and has very small kibble. Fromm Classics are reasonably priced – I’ve never used the classics but I know their 4 Star and Gold lines both have small kibbles so I’d assume the classics would as well. NutriSource has a small/medium breed puppy formula that is small and pretty cheap. That’s all I can recall off the top of my head for small kibble and reasonable price. I’m sure Sandy will know some more.

For canned food I’d recommend checking out either Pure Balance (available at Walmart), 4Health (available at Tractor Supply) or Kirkland Cuts & Gravy (available at Costco) – all are $1 or less for a large can and rate 4 stars or higher.

If you want to give him something healthy to chew on that’s also cheap, I’d recommend picking up some raw bones from the butcher. Bully sticks, pig ears and dried tracheas (from quality sources) are healthy chews too but they can be pricey.

[Hound Dog Mom]

While high lipase levels don’t always indicate pancreatitis – when they’re that high (3X the normal or greater) it usually is an indication of pancreatitis. By “latent” I’m assuming that the vet is saying it’s underlying chronic pancreatitis that hasn’t flared up yet. Your vet didn’t give you any dietary recommendations – such as a certain level of fat to shoot for? I wouldn’t say you need to quit feeding raw but you should closely monitor his fat intake. The fat levels should be very low (I’d say around 10%) – which can be difficult to find in a raw diet. The OC Raw Fish & Produce formula is pretty low in fat at 12% and the Goat & Produce is only 9%. Another option would be to purchase some lean meat (heart, poultry gizzards, 96% lean ground beef or turkey, whitefish, etc.) and add it to a pre-mix to create a balanced raw meal that is also low in fat. There are some dehydrated foods with low fat levels as well if this is something you’d be open to – The Honest Kitchen’s Zeal (9%), Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance Chicken (9%), Sojo’s Turkey Complete (8%), Sojo’s Beef Complete (8%), Addiction’s Perfect Summer Brushtail (10%), Addiction’s Outback Kangaroo Feast (8%), Addiction’s Steakhouse Beef & Zucchini (8%), Addiction’s Fig’licious Venison Feast (10%). If you aren’t familiar with “dehdyrated foods” – they’re essentially a raw diet that has had the moisture removed, you add water let it stand for a few minutes and it rehydrates to a similar consistency of fresh raw. Dehydrated foods aren’t truly in a “raw” state after the dehydration process (the meats are generally heated to a high enough temperature to kill bacteria) but they are much less processed than kibble and probably the next best thing to raw. I would definitely keep him on digestive enzymes (make sure it contains lipase) and probiotics. I would also recommend supplementing with a pancreas glandular. You may also want to talk with your vet about whether or not your dog could benefit from some additional fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K) and, if yes, in what amounts – when a dog isn’t metabolizing fat properly (such as with pancreatitis) they may not be absorbing adequate amounts of these vitamins. I know some other here have had dogs with pancreatitis so hopefully they’ll have more to contribute. Good luck.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[mah4angel]

Yes! I do believe that we are always reunited with those we love; animal and human. Whether it be in Heaven or in another lifetime, whatever you happen to believe in ^_^

There’s a whole forum topic dedicated to raw dog food menus here: /forums/topic/menus/. I’m totally no raw dog food genie haha and you can see all of my ramblings and questions on there and my current future recipe is the last comment on the thread hehe. I don’t have everything I need to actually feed him his raw diet yet so that’s why I’m not feeding him 100% raw as of yet but I will be soon!

Here is a thread for help with starting a dog on raw dog food: /forums/topic/help-with-starting-my-dog-on-a-raw-diet/ BUT it will take a few months to transition her all the way up the ladder to raw food, so I wouldn’t be super worried about it quite yet 😀 I think the most important thing is to just get her off of Science Diet food. And if you have any of the Science Diet left, PLEASE donate it to a local shelter! I know that Science Diet is not at all optimal for our wonderful furry friends but shelters need all that they can get 🙂

I also wanted to add something that I forgot to my original comment, which is to start feeding raw meaty bones and organ meat (livers, hearts, etc.) when she is fully transitioned to DNA (or another freeze or air-dried raw). RMB’s as we call them are GREAT for dental health! And it’ll be a great introduction to real, raw meat. Pork necks, chicken necks, ox tails, chicken backs, chicken feet, pork feet, etc. are all RMB’s (as opposed to recreational bones like thigh bones, etc.) that are recommended. And the organ meats will supply extra nutrients. Just make sure to freeze them for two weeks just to be on the safe side 🙂

RMB’s and organs (and any table scraps, etc.) should make up no more than 20% of her daily diet (because it will throw off the balance supplied in the pre-made food), so you’ll want to give her maybe one pork neck one day and maybe one chicken heart the next day, and so on and so forth. BUT like I said, this is all a long way off so I wouldn’t focus too much on this portion of the feeding.

In reality, the longest transition time will more than likely be right now, switching from Science Diet to whatever 4-star GRAIN-FREE food (totally forgot to mention that the four-star food should be grain-free) you choose, whether it be Nature’s Domain or something else. This is because her tummy isn’t used to the lack of grains. It’s almost like a detox process. So, that transition will most likely take the longest to complete; probably a month or so.

This is why adding fiber (with things like pureed pumpkin, hemp, chia, and flax seed, etc.) and probiotics/digestive enzymes (with things like yogurt, etc.) is important because it helps to nourish the balance of good and bad bacteria in the gut as well as balancing out any other digestive problems.

I’m trying to pack in a lot of information into one comment so that you won’t have to do too too much fishing for information. It’s stressful, I know! The most important thing is to just pull the trigger and do it. I second-guessed myself and I waited until I felt I had found the perfect food, but no food is 100% perfect. There is no supplementing a wolf’s primitive diet with just one food, try as we might hehe ^_^

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi londoncalling1996 –

That’s too bad your store didn’t carry any of the foods. 🙁 If you’re not opposed to online ordering there are many sites that sell a wider variety of foods than you could find in a store and they also typically have lower prices – most also offer free shipping with no weight limit when you spend a certain amount of money (usually orders over $49). I’d recommend checking out wag.com, chewy.com, petflow.com and naturalk9supplies.com. Also the new lists should give you many additional options to choose from.

I definitely feel that, if it’s financially feasible, non-dry foods should be fed as a sole diet or at least in addition to kibble. Dry food is actually the worst thing to feed a dog – however to to budget and time constraints it, understandably, comprises the bulk of most dog’s diets. I urge you to check out this article Dr. Marty Goldstein (one of my all time favorite veterinarians) posted on his blog, it ranks the different types of food from best to worst: drmarty.com/what-should-i-feed-my-pet-for-best-health/

If you add wet food you should count account for this in her daily food intake – just monitor her weight and if she’s gaining too much start feeding a little less. One of my all time favorite wet food toppers (especially for large breed puppies) is Tripett. I like Tripett for several reasons: 1) high protein/moderate fat/low carbohydrate (ideal); 2) it has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but very low amounts of each, so it can effectively be used to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio in any food fed to a large breed puppy without the risk of throwing off the balance and 3) dogs go absolutely nuts for it (people hate it – if you feed it you’ll see why – but they love it). The only thing I want to note with Tripett is that it’s not a complete and balanced food (it’s just canned green tripe) so if you do feed it make sure it doesn’t exceed 20% of the meal or you could throw off the nutritional balance. Some other more balanced canned foods that I like that could account for over 20% of the meal are: ZiwiPeak, Addiction, Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Merrick. Dr. Mike has a great compilation of high quality canned foods over on the review site as well. If you’re looking for a quality yet budget friendly canned food (canned food can be quite pricey, especially when feeding a large breed puppy) I’d recommend checking out 4Health (available at Tractor Supply, $0.99 per can), Pure Balance (available at Walmart, $1 per can), Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (available at Costco, $0.79 per can), Whole Earth Farms (available at many online retailers about $1.50 per can) – these foods are all 4 – 5 star quality. Some other toppers you could use are dehdyrated foods (i.e. The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.) – these foods are about the same consistency as a stew type canned food when rehydrated, a balanced frozen or freeze-dried commercial raw food (freeze-dried rehydrates to canned food consistency) or fresh toppers such as sardines, eggs, plain yogurt or left over lean meat or steam veggies from your dinner.

Digestive aids aren’t necessary, but many feel they’re beneficial. Many of the regulars here supplement with probiotics and enzymes. I don’t supplement with either because my dogs eat a raw diet (naturally occurring enzymes) and consume raw green tripe (rich in enzymes and probiotics) and kefir (rich in probiotics) on a regular basis. If feeding cooked food only (like kibble and canned) I do feel that enzymes and probiotics can provide benefit.

[pugmomsandy]

So far Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance and Sojo’s Complete, Nature’s Variety LID, some of the Natural Balance LIDs. I’m sure there’s more. Be back later…

[pugmomsandy]

There’s only a few foods that are really limited ingredient. For kibble there is Natural Balance LID, and Nature’s Variety Instinct LID. Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance and The Honest Kitchen Zeal are single protein and it doesn’t have a large number of ingredients. I would suggest adding a probiotic and digestive enzyme to the foods.

[Hound Dog Mom]

4Health canned (4.5 stars) is $0.99 per can at Tractor Supply. Pure Balance canned (hasn’t been rated yet but I’d guess 4 or 4.5 stars) is $1 per can at Walmart. ‘Ol Roy Healthy Mix Tubs (3.5 stars) are I believe $1.30 at Walmart. Variety canned foods and Natural Life canned foods (both 4 stars) are generally around $1.50 per can.

Some dry foods that are reasonably priced: 4Health, Pure Balance, Native Performance, Healthwise, Pro Pac, Eagle Pack, Victor (all 4-5 stars and under $50 for the largest bag).

[Hound Dog Mom]

As long as the homemade portion is 20% or less of the meal you don’t need to worry about balancing it. If you plan on feeding more than 20% of his diet as homemade food you’ll need to balance the recipe. Add a variety of fresh cooked and pureed vegetables , pureed fruit (don’t go overboard, fruit is high in carbohydrates) and fresh minced herbs (parsley, cilantro, etc.). To balance the fats in the turkey add 1 tsp. flax or chia oil or 1 tbs. ground flax or chia seeds (provides essential fatty acids without contributing to the level of linoleic acid which is already high in poultry) per pound of turkey. For dogs with cancer the recommended dosage of fish oil is the amount that provides 300 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 10 lbs. of body weight – so for your dog you’d be aiming for around 1,200 mg. combined EPA and DHA daily (most fish oil capsules have around 300 mg. combined EPA and DHA). If you’re feeding predominantly homemade, I would recommend making one of the capsules a vitamin a and d rich quality cod liver oil (I like Carlson’s brand). I would definitely feed eggs once or twice a week – cage free are best as they’re higher in omega 3’s and vitamins such as d and e. I would supplement with around 100 IU vitamin e daily (could give a higher dosage 2 – 3 times a week). You want to add 1 ground eggshell per pound of meat to balance the calcium to phosphorus ratio. I’d also add a whole food supplement comprised of nutrient rich “superfoods” – you can buy pre-made supplement’s (such as Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier, Dr. Harvey’s E-mune Boost, Wysong’s Wild Things, etc.) or make your own. I make my own, I buy bulk ingredients from human supplement stores – the current blend I’m feeding is 1 part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen. Whole food supplements will help supply vital trace nutrients. Lastly, I would recommend switching up protein sources often. Is there a reason you’re looking at feeding only turkey? If your dog doesn’t have any sensitivities it’s best to feed a variety of poultry and red meats (if you’re feeding red meat use hemp seeds/oil instead of flax or chia).

[Mom2Cavs]

I use Wellness Pure Rewards, but I use the Turkey and the Turkey/Salmon jerky. Two of mine have issues. Laverne gets colitis and Lucy has a tumor on her bladder. Hazel is fine. All three dogs love and do fine eating these treats. In fact, with the Natural Balance merger with Del Monte I’m switching them all over to Wellness Simple Salmon & Pot. as their base kibble. I also top with various canned foods. I use Wellness biscuits, too….the Lamb grain free and the Whitefish.

[pugmomsandy]

Angels6121,

Look up these foods or brands and look through their different varieties:

Canine Caviar GF
EVO cans
Fresh is Best dehydrated
Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance freeze dried
Great Life GF
Honest Kitchen Zeal dehydrated
Hound and Gatos canned
Merrick 96% canned
Natural Balance LID dry
Nature’s Logic canned and dry
Only Natural Pet Easy Raw and MaxxMeat dehydrated
Pioneer Naturals GF
Sojo’s Complete dehydrated
Smack dehydrated
Tuscan Natural Simply Pure dry
Weruva Marbella Paella
Wellness Simple canned
Wellness cans – duck, turkey, venison, whitefish

[soho]

Hi ashylynn,

Since your dogs have been on commercial dog foods their whole lives I would not just switch them to raw. Dog’s digestive systems adjust to whatever type of food (raw, cooked, kibbled, canned, etc) that they are eating. In your case your dogs may have a hard time with the added bacteria present in raw due to the fact that the pH of their stomachs is not acid enough at the moment. Some dogs also do not like the taste of raw after all those years (or 13 months) of eating cooked foods. Lastly without knowing the state of your dog’s immune systems it can be pretty risky switching from kibble or canned to raw.

A home cooked diet of at least 75% meat and 20 to 25% non-starchy fruits and vegetables would be a great step up for your dogs without the added risks of raw. You could then gradually start cooking their food less and less and see how they do. If everything goes well they could eventually be eating a diet consisting of raw meats and pureed fruits and vegetables.

If you go the homemade route don’t forget to add calcium if they are not consuming raw meaty bones and a good multivitamin to balance out their diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Some that weren’t mentioned: Pro Pac, Eagle Pack (available in 50 lb. breeder bags), Pure Balance (available at Walmart), Healthwise, Native Performance. All rated 3.5 – 5 stars and all <$1.25 per lb.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi cashmyhorse –

If home cooking for your dog is something you’re willing to do and can afford, I strongly feel that a balanced homemade diet utilizing fresh, low glycemic ingredients would be the best option for your dog.

Here is some information on diet and diabetes:

dogaware.com/articles/wdjdiabetesdiets.html

As far as balancing the diet, there is a company called “Balance IT” that has vitamin/mineral supplements designed to balance a homemade diet. There is a recipe generator on their website in which you can enter information about your dog, including any health issues such as diabetes, and a recipe will be created to suit your dog’s needs – check it out at balanceit.com. There are also some pre-mixes with low glycemic ingredients that would be suitable for a dog with diabetes – The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance and Birkdale Petmix. With the “Balance IT” supplements and pre-mixes generally all you need to add is meat and water, all the vitamins the dog needs are in the mix. If you want to feed a completely made from scratch diet, invest in a good book with recipes that conform to AAFCO nutrient standards. My favorite book is “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. Another great book is “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker. Dog Aware has some great tips on homemade diets as well.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dolphina13 –

Oftentimes when dogs are having issues on low quality foods (such as Pedigree, Beneful, ‘Ol Roy, etc.), simply switching to a food free of corn, wheat, soy and dyes can solve the problem. I’m not sure exactly what you’re “budget” is but the cheapest options I know of would be Pure Balance (sold at Walmart) the chicken variety is $31.88 for 30 lbs. and the lamb variety is is $39.88 for 30 lbs and 4Health (sold at Tractor Supply) runs between $31.99 and $36.99 for a 35 lb. bag. I know a lot of people that have had success with lamb and rice based foods for sensitive dogs. But, like Melissa said, it’s trial and error – every dog is different.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi rdpalmer –

I can’t say for sure that the food is the issue, but I can say that Purina Healthy Morsels is an extremely low quality product. Have you read the review? The food contains several “red flag” ingredients and has only received a 1 star rating. There’s nothing “healthy” about those morsels. I would highly recommend you switch to a better quality food. There are several 3 and 4 star foods that won’t break the bank – Pure Balance, NutriSource, Fromm Classics, 4Health, Diamond Naturals, Chicken Soup, Whole Earth Farms, Healthwise, Eagle Pack, Pro Pac, Professional, Premium Edge, etc. Most of these foods are under $45 for the largest bag (~30 – 40 lbs.). The glucosamine is good for the dog with joint issues – you may also want to add chondroitin and MSM in addition to a natural anti-inflammatory like Boswellia or Turmeric. I would not recommend giving your dogs vitamins, balanced commercial foods contain all the vitamins and minerals your dogs need – more is not necessary better as many vitamins and minerals can be toxic when consumed in excess. Changing to a better quality food may help the issues, if not you’ll need to discuss the options with your veterinarian.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi August –

I like Tripett for a canned topper for large breed puppies – it’s pure canned green tripe (so it’s only for a topper, not a balanced meal). Green tripe naturally has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but it has a very low concentration of both minerals. However, if you’re only using a small amount of canned food as a topper I wouldn’t worry about the calcium levels.

It’s really tough to recommend an amount to feed as energy requirements can vary drastically from dog to dog. The feeding guide on the bag would be a good place to start but keep in mind it’s only a starting point. Some dogs will need much more than what’s recommended on the feeding guide and others will need much less. You’ll need to assess your pup’s weight regularly and adjust his portions accordingly to ensure he maintains optimum body condition. He’ll be growing quickly and for the first 8 months or so you’ll find that you’ll need to adjust portions frequently.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

You only want to use one calcium supplement. You can stick with one or rotate every so often. I’ve actually never used bone meal as a calcium source, but the thing to keep in mind if you want to use bone meal is that it contains both calcium AND phosphorus so you’ll have to add more bone meal than you would a pure calcium supplement (such as calcium citrate) to get the ratio in balance. Most bone meal has a 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio but it can vary by brand. Dr. Pitcairn’s book “Natural Health for Dogs and Cats” contains a guide guide for balancing recipes with bone meal, I’m sure there are a lot of websites out there that explain it as well. If you’re using a pure calcium supplement, the general rule is about 800 mg. per 1 lb. muscle meat and 1,000 mg. per 1 lb. organ meat – as long as you follow that general rule the end result should be balanced. Sometimes slightly more or less can be used depending on the type of meat – i.e.) fattier meats will be lower in phosphorus and thus require less calcium than leaner meats. In my boneless beef recipe above, after the nutrient analysis I found that I only needed 1,400 mg. calcium to get the ratio where I wanted it. The tripe didn’t require any calcium as tripe naturally has a balanced C:P ratio, 85% lean is a little fattier and contains less phosphorus than extra lean meat and my offal blend contains trachea and gullet which only have slightly more phosphorus than calcium. There really wasn’t any reason behind my choosing calcium citrate other than it was available in powder form – I prefer to use powdered supplements when possible. You could certainly use another calcium supplement such as eggshell calcium, calcium lactate, etc. Just make sure the supplement contains ONLY calcium – some add other vitamins and minerals which, if not accounted for, could over-supplement your dog’s meal. I’ve heard that certain calcium supplements are better assimilated than others, but I really wouldn’t worry too much about what type you’re using as long as you’re getting the amount right.

[Hound Dog Mom]

The dogs are moving through the venison supply quickly so I’ve formulated their next menu. I’ve always fed my dogs so much variety and their yearly blood work has always come back normal, so I’ve never been overly concerned about nutrient profiles. This time however, I decided to actually take the time to run a full nutrient analysis on their new menu. What a headache! It took me a few days of slaving over the calculator, however I’m happy to say their menu exceeds the AAFCO nutrient profile for all life stages. My main focus for this menu was cutting costs, while maximizing nutrition and variety. Because I know this menu is “complete and balanced” and there’s a lot of variety, along with the fact that this will slice about $100 of the monthly food bill – I’ll probably be sticking with this menu for awhile. Breakfasts are divided into three equal portions (one portion for each dog) and dinners are what I would feed to each dog individually.

Mondays/Wednesdays/Fridays

Breakfast:

Makes 3 Servings:
1 lb. Ground Beef
1 lb. Green Beef Tripe
1 lb. Beef Offal Mix (Heart, Liver, Kidney, Spleen, Lungs, Trachea, Gullet)
3 eggs
3.75 oz. Tin Sardines Packed in Water
1 C. Kefir
16 oz. Frozen Broccoli, Cauliflower, Carrot Mix*
1 Bunch Fresh Parsley, Minced
2 tbs. Whole Food Supplement**
2 tbs. Ground Hemp Seed
2 tbs. Ground Sprouted Sunflower Seeds
1 tbs. Coconut Oil
1 tbs. Apple Cider Vinegar with Mother
1/4 tsp. Himalayan Crystal Salt
3,000 mg. Cod Liver Oil
1,400 mg. Calcium Citrate
1,500 mg. Fruit Concentrate (Blueberry, Cherry, Orange, Strawberry, Raspberry, Cranberry)
1,050 mg. mg. Raw Multiple Glandular (Liver, Brain, Stomach, Kidney, Heart, Spleen, Pancreas, Duodenum, Thyroid, Thymus, Adrenal, Parotid, Pituitary)
600 IU Mixed Tocopherols and Tocotrienols

Dinner:
2 Turkey Necks (approx. 12 – 16 oz.)
6 oz. Turkey Hearts

Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday

Breakfast:

Makes 3 Servings:
12 oz. Skin-On Chicken Necks, ground
12 oz. Chicken Gizzards, ground
12 oz. Chicken Hearts, ground
12 oz. Chicken Livers, ground
10 oz. Frozen Spinach*
10 oz. Frozen Butternut Squash*
8 oz. Canned Oysters
1 C. Kefir
2 tbs. Whole Food Supplement**
2 tbs. Milled Flaxseed
2 tbs. Sprouted Pumpkin Seeds
5 Cloves Garlic, minced
1 tbs. Coconut Oil
1 tbs. Apple Cider Vinegar with Mother
1/4 tsp. Himalayan Crystal Salt
3,000 mg. Cod Liver Oil
1,500 mg. Fruit Concentrate (Blueberry, Cherry, Orange, Strawberry, Raspberry, Cranberry)
1,440 mg. Colostrum
600 IU Mixed Tocopherols and Tocotrienols

Dinner:
Pork Neck (approx. 20 oz.)

Sundays

FAST: 1 C. Broth (made with THK’s Ice Pups) with Animals’ Apawthecary Detox Tincture morning and night.

*All vegetables are cooked and pureed.
**Whole Food Supplement: 1 part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass, 1 part bee pollen powder.

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/NutrientAnalysis_zps9f3e4b46.png

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,
So here is the chicken dinner ingredients:
Big Country Chicken Dinner
Ingredients
Ground chicken with bone, beef liver, fruit and vegetable puree. Garlic and kelp.
A complete and balanced meal choice. Protein-max 16%. Fat-min 12%. Moisture-62%. Fibre-2.6%
The chicken dinner has the highest fat, the rest are not over 10%. Of course I don’t really know how to convert it to dry matter basis, I did see how on here but I think my calculation was way off, lol!
Other than the fish I don’t see any fish oil added, would you say to add in the krill oil? I think they want you to feed the fish dinner every now and again, but they use cod, haddock or sole.
I guess I will hold off the joint supplement, do rmb’s help supply glucosamine and chrondroitin? He is getting his first chicken wing for his evening meal! I am so excited, I showed it to him and he wanted to take it so I think he will like the true raw diet! But he is still young with no issues so far, so since he is getting it naturally I think he will be good for now!
Thanks for all your help HDM! He is at me right now for his chicken wing!
And I like your schedule for vaccinating, I think I personally would feel better if he got his one year shots, and then I might titer him at 2 and go from there.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Also should add – “Pure Balance,” the new food sold at Walmart, has a lamb and rice formula that’s rated 3 1/2 stars and costs $39 for a 30 lb. bag.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Marmaduke –

Are you cooking the fruit/veggie mix? Dogs don’t produce cellulase (the enzyme required to digest the cellulose in the plant material) so fruits/vegetables should be cooked and pureed in order to break down the cellulose. There’s no trick to preparing green tripe, you jut feed it. Tripe has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1:1 so you can feed as much as you want. I think feeding your chicken mix as one meal and tripe as the other would be a good idea.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi mbigdogs –

I feel your pain! I have three bloodhounds – my male is 110 lbs., my adult female is 70 lbs. and my 6 1/2 month old female puppy is pushing 60 lbs and they eat like horses. I feed a homemade raw diet, I order all my food in bulk 300 lb. shipments from a wholesaler that supplies restaurants and grocery stores – I save a significant amount of money this way. Pre-made raw, dehydrated foods and canned foods would pretty much be out of the question – way too cost prohibitive with multiple large dogs. If you want to go the kibble route, some quality cost effective choices would be Merrick’s Whole Earth Farms (4 stars), Pure Balance (3 1/2 stars), Eagle Pack (4 stars), NutriSource (4 stars), Fromm’s Classics Line (3 1/2 stars), Hi-Tek Naturals (3 1/2 stars), Victor (4 stars) and Healthwise (4 stars). All of these foods are in the $35-$40 range for a large bag (usually 30-40 lbs.).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DrYattz –

You really can’t give a healthy dog too much protein. Most of the Solid Gold formulas (aside from Barking at the Moon) are actually low in protein, so I doubt that was the issue. My dogs eat a raw diet with 45%-55% protein at each meal – about twice as much protein as is in most kibbles. As far as worrying about availability I’d recommend you get your dogs used to rotating foods. Switching between brands and protein sources is MUCH healthier than feeding the same food day in and day out. Once you get your dogs used to it you shouldn’t even have to transition between foods. Before I switched to raw when my oldest was on kibble I got a new brand of food with a new protein source every 2-3 weeks and a rotated canned food toppers daily – he had no digestive issues. All three of my dogs now eat raw and get something different at each meal – no issues here either. The Ol Roy Pure Balance looks like a decent budget friendly food, it’s low in protein and fat though so it’s a good thing you’re adding the chicken.

[DrYattz]

We have three hounds: Annabelle (a golden retriever), Nellie (a black lab/beagle), and Sophie (who looks like an albino brittany spaniel). After years of struggling to feed them all well, we began giving them a mix of chicken (boiled, shredded leg meat) and dry food. The dry food remains the issue: Solid Gold (too high protein?) made their stools green and slimey, and IAMS Healthy Naturals appears to be provoking an allergic reaction in Sophie. She spends hours licking and chewing her paws and her butt, and the fur under her tail is now a deep brown color. (The other dogs appear to be doing quite well.)

One issue is our lifestyle: we travel a great deal, generally with the dogs. It has happened several times that we find ourselves running out of dogfood in a remote corner of Georgia or Virginia. The availability of the chicken is never a problem, but certain dry foods can be impossible to find. So, we switched to the Iams because we could get it at WalMart or Kroger fairly easily. Yes, we could be better organized and order large stocks of something less readily available, but the convenience of grabbing a bag of dry food in St. Simons (rather than driving two hours to Savannah) is difficult to give up.

We are looking at Ol Roy Pure Balance Lamb and Brown Rice. But we wonder if, with lots of protein and fat coming from the chicken we give them twice a day, if we shouldn’t consider something else. Any guidance would be appreciated.

[soho]

Hi Safarisam

These recommendations are just my opinion and I am NOT a vet. This is just what I would do if I were in your situation. I would try to find a holistic or integrative vet to be part of your healthcare team in dealing with your dogs diet and his diabetes!

There are many many options for your pom. Since you mentioned you would love to make his food here is one option. Buy ground turkey, ground beef and chicken breasts from your local supermarkets. Buy some frozen vegetables, no onions or starchy veggies like potatoes and no grains. His diet should be at least 80% meat and no more then 20% vegetables.

You can steam the veggies and then mash them up or you can puree them in a blender or food processor without cooking them. The idea is to make the veggies easier to digest since dogs don’t process veggies that well. The meats can be lightly cooked using low heat. I would be cautious about giving raw food to your dog at this point because it is hard for anyone to judge the condition of his immune system and the damage that has been done from the diabetes. A good immune system is necessary to handle the bacteria from raw food.

Since there are no bones in this diet a calcium supplement is necessary. If it is made for dogs it will have the dosages on the label. A multivitamin is also necessary because it is difficult for the home prepared diet to be complete and balanced without adding vitamins and minerals. Again if it is made for dogs the dosage will be on the label. I would also add some digestive enzymes and some sardines for their omega 3 content. The sardines would be part of the 80% meat portion of the diet. additional toppers like green tripe and organ meats can be rotated in the 80% part of the diet. Toppers should be no more then 20% of the total diet.

This is a start and there are many more options than the one I have given. A good book for you to help with your dogs diet would be see spot live longer by Steve Brown.

I wish you and your pomeranian the very best!

[Toxed2loss]

Hey Labman,
You didn’t say what you were feeding, in your post above. Not sure if you’ve posted that somewhere else on the site, but it is important. Your dog’s food is the foundation of her health.

Back before I knew better, I fed really bad dog food to my beloved pointer cross, Morgan. Ol’ Roy, I’m ashamed to say. I was just flat out ignorant!! When she was 12 she slept most of the time, she barely moved, just like yours. Well, my husband decided he needed a new bird dog, so he went out and bought a highly trained purebred, 3 yr old field registered pointer. The owner had health issues and he made it a condition of the sale to feed “high quality” food. Well, he knew more than us, but not as much as he should of, too. He was feeding Iams lamb & rice. A whole lot better than Ol’ Roy!!! So we put both dogs on the better food. Dang!!!! But after a few weeks that dog got up one day and followed my husband 1/4 mile out to the back fence. He turned around and saw her there, wagging her tail and was so worried he carried her (60 lbs) in his arms all the way back to the house. She was lively and healthier for 2-3 more years.

Fast forward to what I know now, feeding your dog THE BEST nutrition makes all the difference! (That’s not Iams!) its balanced raw. If you don’t want to, or can’t, feed raw, then a 5 star meat based kibble. Brother’s Complete is my best pick of kibbles. Hound Dog Mom has posted a lot of recipes and information on raw feeding under that thread, and I’d encourage you to check it out if raw is the way you’d like to go. Shawna is the best resource for nutritional information. Mike P & JohnandChristo rock for feeding kibble plus toppers! Dogs should be living 20-30 years. They were 80 years ago. But that was when they weren’t being feed corn & wheat based dog food. They also weren’t routinely exposed to toxins from flea & tick pesticides, worm pesticides, heavy metals poisoning in vaccines and being over vaccinated… Reducing the environmental toxins will improve your pups health, too! Supplements are just supplements. They can help a little, but they work best synergistically with optimal nutrition.

[Hound Dog Mom]

weimlove –

It’s great that Shadow loved the raw fish – but be careful about which types of fish you feed raw. Salmon, trout and steelhead that are caught in the Pacific can carry “salmon poisoning.” If you want to feed any of these types of fish from this region they should be frozen for a least 2 weeks to kill the parasite.

I make my own wholefood multivitamin/mineral. I order my ingredients from starwest-botanicals.com. I mix equal parts: kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, bee pollen, turmeric and garlic powder. You can do this if you want or if you want to make it simpler you can just mix equal parts kelp and alfalfa and that should be plenty. I’d give a dog the size of yours about 1 1/2 tsp. per day. You’ll need to supplement with vitamin e, for a dog the size of yours I’d give 200 i.u. daily or 400 i.u. every other day. Any vitamin e for humans will do, but I order mine from vitacost – I use the “Vitamin E & Tocotrienol Complex” because it has all 4 tocopherols and all 4 tocotrienols (most vitamin e supplements just contain alpha tocopherol). For fish oil I’m currently using Iceland Pure Sardine & Anchovy blend and Carlson cod liver oil, but any quality fish oils will do (I like buying in liquid form so I can mix it in with the food, but you could certainly get capsules if your dog will eat them). This is optional, but I do give my dogs coconut oil every other day and a plant-based omega 3-6-9 on the opposite days as the coconut oil.

I’d love to make you a menu plan, but because I don’t know exactly which cuts of meat will be available to you it’ll be more like a “template”. I’ll give some options and just use what you can get. One of my dogs – Gertie – is an active 70 lb. 2 year old as well so I’ll give you measurements based on what I would feed her. Obviously metabolisms vary from dog to dog so if you find this is too much or too little food feel free to reduce or increase the amounts, just keep everything proportionate. I’m also not sure how many times a day you feed, but I’ll assume you feed two meals a day.

Breakfast:
-5 mornings per week feed 12 oz. boneless red muscle meat (beef, lamb, buffalo, etc. – can use lean ground, chunks, heart, tripe, or some combination of these). 2 mornings per week feed 6 oz. liver and 6 oz. of another organ or any combination of other organs (kidney, spleen, lungs, pancreas, brain, etc.)
-1/2 C. cooked & pureed vegetables (whichever vegetables you want, can add fruit a couple times per week).
-Optional: 1/4 C. cottage cheese, kefir, plain yogurt or goat’s milk (can do this every day or a few days a week)
-1 1/2 tsp. whole food supplement (like a kelp-alfalfa blend or my homemade blend)
-1 tsp. fish oil (alternate between a fish body oil and cod liver oil)
-Optional: 1/2 tsp. coconut oil or a plant-based omega oil (like flax or evening primrose)
-Once or twice a week: 1 tsp ground pumpkin seeds, pecans, almonds or sunflower seeds
-3/4 tsp. ground egg shell (cheap source of calcium, leave eggshells out to dry then put them through a coffee grinder the next day) or 600-750 mg. of a calcium supplement of your choice (if your butcher sells meat/bone grinds for large animals like beef you could certainly use these and omit the calcium, but most butchers don’t have the equipment to grind heavy bones, so the calcium will have to be added separately)
-200 i.u. vitamin e (or 400 i.u. every other day)

*You can feed this same meal for breakfast daily, just rotate in new protein sources, switch up the extras (cottage cheese, yogurt, nuts and seeds, etc.) and feed a variety of vegetables and fruits.

Dinner (I often alternate between these two dinners for my dogs):
-Chicken back or leg quarter
-8 oz. Gizzards or hearts or boneless chicken (ground or chunks)
-Whole egg with shell
OR
-2 Turkey necks (about 6 oz. each)
-8 oz. Turkey hearts or gizzards or boneless turkey (ground or chunks)

Remember the more variety you can feed the better! Feed as many different protein sources as you can, using as many types of organs as possible, different vegetables and different fats. Each meal doesn’t have to supply every possible vitamin and mineral your dog needs, but over time the diet should balance. So the more variety you can feed the wider variety of nutrients your dog will get.

[Hound Dog Mom]

weimlove –

I would say that if you shop smart, homemade is without a doubt the cheapest route to go. I actually invested in some freezers – I bought one new and got two used off craig’s list – and order in bulk 300 lb. shipments. I get all my meat from a supplier that supplies grocery stores and restaurants, they’ll supply dog kennels too but have a 300 lb. minimum. For me it was worth it, my dog’s are large and eat a lot anyways so it really only takes me about 8 weeks to go through my 300 lb. order and the prices are so much cheaper than what I’d have to pay at the grocery store. If raw is something you really want to get into and continue it may be worth considering something like this – since you only have one dog you could even see if there’s someone else in your area interested in raw and you could go in on orders together to reach the minimum order quantity. I’m sure it’d be possible to find a wholesale distributor like this in most areas. Butchers are great too, if you can find an independently owned butcher (rather than a big chain grocery store) they’d probably be more willing to cater to your needs for certain cuts of meat as well – meaning you could probably get them to save things like kidneys, lungs, etc. etc. that usually get thrown out. Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore are two other great places to get supplies (they have very reasonable prices and shipping prices) – they sell whole ground animals and also hard to find items like certain organs and green tripe. In generally boneless meat costs a lot more than bone-in meat, which is what I think makes the pre-mixes pricey – you have to use all boneless meat then pay for the pre-mix on top of it. A final suggestion for keeping costs low would be that when you’re feeding boneless meat (you’ll have to feed some of course to balance out the phosphorus in the RMBs) go with things like gizzards, hearts and green tripe – I know these things sound a lot less desirable to a person but they’re quality protein for dogs and supply a lot more nutrients than things like boneless skinless chicken breast and extra lean ground beef and they’re way cheaper.

As for supplements to add, assuming you’re feeding a balanced mixture of 80% muscle meat, 10% organ meat and 10% bone I’d recommend adding vitamin e (200 i.u. or so a day or 400 i.u. every few days should be plenty for a dog the size of yours), greens (some variety of kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, etc. rotate if you want). I like to give cod liver oil every other day to ensure my dogs are getting enough vitamin d – use this sparingly though as most varieties have excessive levels of vitamin a, I use Carlson brand because it has the lowest amount of vitamin a and I give a sardine/anchovy oil blend on the opposite days that I give cod liver oil. Dairy is optional, I do find that it stretches out the food a bit though and cuts the cost and I like giving kefir a few times a week for probiotics. I think it’s beneficial to give ground nuts or seeds once or twice a week – every once in a while I just throw some pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds or pecans in the coffee grinder and give each dog about a tsp.

Concerning vegetables, many don’t feel that they’re necessary. Vegetables aren’t part of a dog’s natural diet and I do agree that as long as everything else I described above is provided that they probably aren’t necessary, but I do strongly feel that when they’re provided in small quantities they can be a beneficial addition to the dog’s diet. They provide a lot of antioxidants and with all the chemicals our dogs are exposed to in this day and age antioxidants can help the immune system a great deal. The important thing is that they need to be lightly cooked and pureed – dogs don’t produce the enzyme necessary to break down the cellulose in the cell walls of the plant matter, so cooking and pureeing in a sense “pre-digests” the veggies so that the dog can obtain the nutrients. I’d avoid any starchy vegetables (like potatoes and peas) and onion (toxic to dogs). Some of my favorites to use are are spinach, celery, carrots, kale, broccoli, collard greens, mustard greens, squash, pumpkin, etc. Fruit isn’t necessary either, but I think a small amount of berries or apple once or twice a week is healthy.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Blue Corgi –

No, the ingredients aren’t just made up. Knowing how to balance a homemade diet is VERY important. Feeding an unbalanced diet can result in some serious health issues if the unbalanced diet is fed long term. It’s wonderful that you’re interested in feeding your dogs a homemade diet – I STRONGLY feel that when done correctly a homemade diet is the healthiest thing for a dog.

Ingredients you use will differ slightly based on whether you’re planning on feeding raw or cooked. But with either diet the most important thing is getting the correct calcium to phosphorus ratio. The ratio of calcium to phosphorus needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1. To achieve this when feeding a raw diet with bone you will want to feed 80% boneless muscle meat, 10% organ meat and 10% bone and for cooked diets or raw diets without bone you want to feed 90% boneless muscle meat, 10% organ meat and add 800-1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat and organ fed. Green tripe is a rare exception to this rule as green tripe naturally has a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. You should feed an even mixture of red meat and poultry – don’t feed predominately one or the other as they have different types of fats. I give my dogs red meat in the a.m. and poultry in the p.m. As far as being “exact every time” – you don’t have to be exact every time but you do need to be exact over time. This means, if you decide you want to feed a meal that’s 20% organ meat at breakfast you can just feed a meal without organ meat at dinner – this would still balance out to your dog getting 10% organ meat in its diet. Balance over time.

You should feed around 80% meat – the other 20% can be vegetables, fruits, extras and supplements. All veggies should be cooked and pureed as dogs don’t produce the enzyme cellulase to breakdown the cellulose in raw veggies – cooking and pureeing in a sense “pre-digests” the veggies so the dog can derive some nutrients from them. Extras are optional and would include things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc.

For supplements I would recommend adding a form of animal-based omega 3’s (fish body oil or an oily fish such as sardines), vitamin e and super-foods (kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, etc.). I also give my dogs Carlson cod liver oil every other day for some extra vitamin d (cod liver oil should be limited though as it’s very high in vitamin a, I feed Carlson because it has the lowest vitamin a levels). You can add a multi-vitamin if you wish but if you’re feeding a wide variety of foods and adding the supplements I mentioned I don’t think it would be necessary. If you’re feeding a cooked diet you may want to consider supplementing with enzymes. If you don’t feed kefir, yogurt and/or green tripe on a regular basis you may also want to consider a probiotic supplement a few days of the week.

Lastly – keep this in mind because it’s critical when feeding a homemade diet – variety! Feed many different protein sources, many different types of organs, different fruits, veggies and extras and rotate different supplements into the mix every once in awhile. This will help to ensure that over time your dogs get all the nutrients they need.

Another option to make things easier – if you don’t feel comfortable making food from scratch yet – would be to use a premix. With a premix you generally just add meat and water – the mix contains all the fruits, veggies and supplements your dog needs. Some good premixes are The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Sojo’s, Urban Wolf, Birkdale Petmix and Dr. Harvey’s.

I would recommend checking out dogaware.com – there’s a lot of good information on homemade diets there. I would also recommend reading Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” If you check out the “menu” topic on the raw thread I’ve posted my dogs’ menu so you can get an idea of what a balanced diet should look like.

I hope that helps. Feel free to post any questions! Quite a few of us here feed homemade food and can help you out. 🙂