[Tyrionthebiscuit]

Pancreatitis is aggravated by high fat diets but usually has an underlying cause like hypothyroidism. Cat foods can be tiny in size compared to dog food. That would be a concern to me especially for a larger dog. The price of cat food is also quite steep.

Have you looked at Instinct?

[J S]

Please describe…..Pancreatitis is mainly caused by fatty diets….If the cat food has no more fat than say dog foods such as Orijen why would the dog get Pancreatitis? There are very high quality cat foods with great ingredients, high protein and fat levels on the same level as the most expensive dog foods on the market at a cheaper price.

[anonymous]

One word: Pancreatitis.

[anonymous]

There is a possibility that your dog’s symptoms have absolutely nothing to do with his diet.
I would check back with your vet if symptoms continue. Diagnostic testing may be needed to get to the cause. Was lab work done? Pancreatitis ruled out?

Hope this helps:
http://www.vetstreet.com/care/gastroenteritis-vomiting-and-diarrhea-in-dogs-and-cats

[Susan]

@ Joanne, vet diets are great, but when a dog has acid reflux these vet diets are VERY high in omega oils, especially the R/C intestinal Low Fat wet can food…these oils can make acid reflux worse, I have to get paper towels & dab the R/C loaf dry before feeding it & remove all the oil first or Patch has a gulping swollowing attack, same as a few other dogs who are in Pancreatitis & IBD groups same happens with them….. Hills doesn’t seem to add as much omega oils in their I/d Digestive Care range…
Better to feed fresh lean ingredients when dog has stomach problems, home made meals are better as you are adding your own ingredients….

@ Ruth
for 2-3 days feed lean home cooked meals no vet diet, then next 2-3 days just fed vet diet, see what days she doesnt want to vomit or feels nausous…With 20mg Omeprazole given once a day you will see result in 1-2 weeks as long as diet is agreeing with her??

[Susan]

Hi Dee,
Have you looked at the Hills I/d Digestive Care Stress Rice Vegetables & Chicken Stew small wet can.
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-canine-stress-rice-vegetable-and-chicken-stew-canned
Hills I/d Digestive Care Restore Rice Vegetables & Chicken Stew in a biger can & both have better ingredients then the I/d Loaf style wet formula’s..
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-low-fat-canine-rice-vegetable-and-chicken-stew-canned
Stay on vet diet just till your little man is stable, also join the Canine Pancreatitis Support Group on Face Book,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
Look in their “Files” Pancreas Low Fat dog foods.pdf, scroll down a bit for all the wet foods next to them is their fat converted to DM but again contact Pet Food companies for max fat% in DM as these formula’s may have changed since this was posted & fat has increased.

Whenever you buy a wet can food from a pet shop or online always contact the Pet Food Company & ask them for their max fat% conversion to Dry Matter….5%min when converted to DM can be 20%min fat to 26%max fat.. you need under 3%max in fat, Vet diets are 1.7% you’ll never find a pet shop food this low, so maybe best to look at teh Low Fat formula’s Ive posted & cooked lean chicken & turkey best with some boiled sweet potato for his other meal also cottage cheese is really good aswell..
Dr Judy Morgan DMV is good to follow on f/b, look at her Video’s “Pancreatitis Diet” & “IBD Diet” easy to make balanced meals, then freeze some small meal & have the vet diets stews for his other meals…
I feed 4-5 meals a day with Patch, smaller meals is easier to digest & less work on the Pancreas also these I/D vet diets are for Urinary health problems aswell, I’d email Hills & have a Vet Nutritionist call you back, they will be able to help you with which vet formula will be best for your little man health problems, then tell your vet Hills said blar blar vet diet is best to feed for now… the I/d stews have better ingredients & are made for dogs who don’t want to eat..

[Susan]

Hi Dee,
please be careful with pet shop wet can/tin food, 5%Min is not max fat% & when you convert to dry matter 5%min fat can be 20%min up to 26% max fat, so before you buy any Pet Shop wet foods you will not get one as low as a vet diet at 1.7%-fat, also make sure you email the Pet food companies & ask them for max fat DM conversion……

Are you on face Book join the “Canine Pancreatitis Support Group”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
go to their “Files” scroll down to “Pancreas Low Fat dog foods.pdf” & click on link
then once your on the Pancreas Low Fat dog foods.pdf, scroll down & you will see the low fat wet can foods brands that are sold at pet shops, they have the fat % conversion next to them but I would still contact the Pet Food companies & ask what is the max fat% converted to DM in these formulas, the fat may have change since the Low Fat list was done??

Dr Judy Morgan DVM is also very good to follow on F/B, look at her Video’s she has a “Pancreatitis Diet” & a “IBD Diet” easy to cook recipes..
If you can it’s best to cook & freeze small meals & feed the wet can vet diets just till your dog is 100% better…
Look at
* Hills I/d Digestive Care Low Fat Restore, Rice & Vegetables & chicken Stew.
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-low-fat-canine-rice-vegetable-and-chicken-stew-canned,
The I/d formula’s are also for Urinary health problems aswell but contact Hills by email & get one of their Vet Nutritionist to call you back & they will help you with any questions you may have..
* Hills, Digestive Care, Stress Low Fat Rice, Vegetables Chicken Stew. https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-canine-stress-rice-vegetable-and-chicken-stew-canned
The I/d Stews have better ingredients, then the Hills I/d Low Fat loaf style wet can food..
When your dog is better then maybe look at feeding a low fat pet shop wet can foods that’s on the Pancreatitis Group list or post a post asking people what they are feeding their babies…..

[Dee D]

I have a 12 yr old male chihuahua with pancreatitis with severe pain and loss of weight and additionally he also has a problem with leaking urine. I really hope when I get the pancreatitis under control permanently, this issue will go away too like member Kay stated she experienced. I have him currently on the Hills I/D low fat maintenance the Vet had on hand but I am questioning whether my dog will get enough protein in his diet and being this should be the major part of a canines diet, it worries me because that supports their muscle mass. I did the DM calculation for this canned food (stated 5%) to determine the DM protein percentage and it’s only 22% DM plus the first 2 ingredients are water and rice including Cellulose which can be saw dust. It does have an egg and liver organs it in but I hardly think this is quality RX food for a sick animal at the high price they command. Very despairing how the world works. I’ve looked at the brand Wellness Core Grain free which has 5% min crude fat on the can (15% DM which is consider medium amount) but has 11% stated protein (50% DM) now that’s more like it and the source ingredients read high quality including Omega 3 which is great for inflammation. Still not cheap but at least you’re getting something for your money. This maybe to much fat during an initial attack but long term I like it much better for my dog. I also have wondered like an earlier member posted, if supplementing digestive Enzymes would help since pancreatitis by nature means the enzymes produced are not processing correctly to the intestines to digest and absorb the nutrients from the food as it is broken down so it just goes through their GI tract out the other end and this could contribute to over all poor health and lost weight. FYI, Enzymes should be given with food to work for this purpose. My vet is saying no too. I have learned eggs are the #1 excellent source of protein at 100% but for my dog I will remove the yolk and just give him the white portion which has no fat content but better to add cooked to avoid possible Somalia. I just gave my dog a a little of the white of a hard boiled egg and he loved it and I just bought a dog digestive enzyme supplement, so wish me luck!

[Susan]

Hi Nate,

Yes Annamaet Lean kibble is VERY high in legumes, high carb diet..

People recommend to feed a low-protein diet for a dog with pancreatitis. However this is not correct. By decreasing protein in diet then the carbohydrate content increases which is the greatest aggravating factor of pancreatitis in dogs in the first place, or increase the fat, which is no good considering the illness..
I was feeding Patch a low protein around 25%, low fat diet then realised the carbs were so high & my dog always had his stomach/pancreas pain, whinging crying, wanting me to rub his pancreas area, at least once a week but since he’s been eating “Wellness Core” Large Breed formula, that is high protein around 34%, low/med fat-13% Carbs-30% he’s been doing really well & he has not had 1 whinging episode in 7 months where he wants me to rub his pancreas, then he has to be put on Metronidazole when Pancreas/stomach pain doesn’t go away after 2 days….He can’t take Predisone/steriods..

Here’s
**Wellness Core Raw Rev Turkey Dehydrated its low in fat 10%
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-rawrev-healthy-weight-100-raw-turkey

** Wellness Core 100% Turkey- 10% fat
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-100-freeze-dried-turkey
Here’s the Whole Wellness Core range… click on the Chicken & Turkey formula’s they’re lowest in fat..
You could fed 1 of their meal the Hills I/d formula & for dinner they have a meal thats higher protein, lower fat & lower carbs, take baby steps & see how your dogs do eating the Higher protein meal, meat protein is easier to digest then a bowl of carbs…

The Honest Kitchen has a few new formula’s
HOPE –
% Protein-25.0
% Fat-7.2
% Fiber-6.0
% Moisture-8.0
*Per dry cup.
THK- Kindley – Grain Free Fat is 10% Fiber is 8.5%
THK- Preference – Grain Free fat-10.5% Fiber -8%
THK- Verve – Organic Beef- Fat-8.5% Fiber-5.8%
THK- Zeal – Grain Free- Fat-8.5 fiber 5.8%
the fiber % is higher in some of the Honest Kitchen formula’s over 6%….

Here’s The Honest Kitchen range- https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/meals

Are you on Face Book here’s the “Canine Pancreatitis Support group” link
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
Join group then post a post asking what are people feeding their dogs, I know there’s a few people who feed low fat, premade raw diets, so they may know of a freeze dried/Dehydrated brands you can feed that are low in fat.
also look in the “files”
there’s “A recipe for home-cooked food”
there’s “Pancreas Low Fat dog foods.pdf”

[Nate D]

I have 2 Dachsunds. Both have had pancreas issues in the past. One has cushings and may have cancer. I have been feeding both of them Hills I/D Low Fat Natural dry food, but want them off of the kibble.
I have tried The Honest Kitchen Fish, but dont care for the garlic in it. It also seems to be to high in protein for them causing gas and upset stomach even with small amounts. I was hoping to use it because people rant and rave about it for their dogs who have had pancreatitis and/or cancer.

I have been looking for something else. Either dehydrated, frozen, patties, fresh, etc.. and am having a hard time finding anything low in fat.
Anyone know of any?

I know I can do homemade, but have no idea what complete supplements I need. I would however prefer already made.

[Susan]

Hi Ryan,
is your boy on any medications for Arthritis pain, as these can cause stomach problems, ulcers etc?
You have to be careful you do “not” want to confuse your vet….
When a dog has a seizure they don’t respond while having a seizure, their body/muscles are all tense & tight, there’s no mouth licking or gulping they do not respond….
This is awful to watch but this is a dog having a seizure
the dog does not lick or swollow like when a dog has bad acid that has come up into the dogs mouth…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzZ-IgD7HXs

Yes, all vet diets are very high in omega oils, the Hills Z/D & Royal Canine Hypoallergenic skin wet & dry vet diet formula’s are VERY high in Omega oils for skin & can upset their stomach, Patch can NOT eat any vet diets or normal premium kibbles for his skin problems, most of the vet diets give him bad acid reflux especially when he eats a fish kibble, even the Intestinal Health vet diets wet & dry give him bad acid reflux 🙁 ….
After trying nilly all the vet diets, I finally worked it out, his acid reflux was from all the omega oils & I saw Dr Judy Morgan “Pacreactitis Again” video, Judy talks about her 16-17yr old dog who suffers with Pancreatitis & other health problems, she worked out her dog can NOT have any fish oils, the same thing happens acid reflux or a Pancreas flare…
I stick with dry foods that have Canola oil, Sunflower/vegetable oil or Flaxseed, Patch ends up licking & swollowing like you said around 1hr after eating these high omega oil foods & high carb foods, especially when you see a fish oil, flaxseed, corn oil, within the first 5 ingredients….
I feed tin pink salmon in spring water drain water add 1/2 boiled sweet potatoes, salmon isn’t as oily like Sardines are..your dog would like that as a small meal, see how he goes…

When I see Patch starting to do his swolling, licking mouth, or doing his weird mouth thing, this is when I give him 1/2 a ant acid quick eze berry chew & tell him chew chew & he chews the quick eze chew, then 20mins later he seems heaps better, they’re not that expensive at supermarket you can get the plain white quick eze lollie, there’s another ant acid chew/lollie a few people in the Pancreatis support f/b group use for their dogs when they’re having a licking swolling attack from bad acid reflux, they use Rennie tabs, I’d give one of these a try next time you see him starting to have an attack, probably will work better then the Sucarafate, the Sucarafate didn’t really help Patch, he wanted to eat grass after I gave him his Sucarafate slurry…
Something better then the Sucarafate tablets is Slippery Elm Powder, it stops nausea, acid reflux helps with stomach problems..
Get 1 teaspoon of the Slipery elm powder put in cup, boil the jug & slowley add boiling water to the slipery elm powder in a cup & stir till you have a thick slurry, put 1 teaspoon of the Slippery Elm Slurry on a plate to cool then see if your dog will lick it up, Patch licked it up once then didn’t again, so I had to get a 20ml syringe & pull up 5ml & give 20mins before he eats, then cover the cup with foil & put in fridge, it turns into a jelly slurry & need to be heated, takeout about 1 spoon put in the microwave or I just add some boiling water to about 1 spoon that you’ve taken out of the cup then when its can be pulled up into a syringe just use 5mls…

You still have to make sure what they’re eating isn’t too high in fat or omega oils & ingredients agree with your dog… Have you looked at the Rice dry formula’s?
It has taken me 5yrs to work out Patch..

His Sphincter flap from stomach to esophagus mighten be closing properly & the acid is washing back up into throat & mouth, you’ll need something stronger to settle this, if the Sucarafate isnt helping him… so he doesn’t end up with a sore throat & burnt wind pipe like Patch ended up with, he may have an Ulcer?? Ulcers happen cause of too much acid, you need ant acid blocker meds to stop the acid burning the ulcer & it can heal…

Sometimes no matter what Patch eats he just has a few bad days, sometimes it all starts again when I feed a wet can/sachet or the low fat vet diet for lunch, so I avoid the wet foods for a 3-5 days & just feed 4-5 small kibble meals…

With a dry food look for 10%-15%max-fat, sometimes a food will be 14.5% fat, that why I say 15% max fat, the lower the fat & protein & the higher the carbs, so you have to find a dry kibble that works for your dog..
Wet foods arent low enough that are sold at Pet Shops, you ned under 3%max fat in a wet foods, best to email the pet food companies ask what the fat when converted to dry matter fat & the MAX fat % you’ll have shock, some wet foods are high…

I have found the Large Breed formula’s work best for Patch, as they arent too high in carbs or fat, the protein is over 26% & seems to help reduce his acid reflux…. I stay around-13%-fat & 34%-protein.

Have you tried any of the Purina One formula’s a few people say their dog does well on Purina One formula’s here’s, but I looked & some are 16%, 17%, 18 % in fat, so way too high in fat for your boy, this Purina One formula large breed formula looks good, the fat is 13%, protein-26%, fiber is 4.5% the fiber is not too high & the carbs are about 40% carbs-
these ingredients are like the Intestinal Health vet diets minus the high Omega Oils….
https://www.purinaone.com/dogs/products/dry-dog-food/smartblend-large-breed-adult
or if you find a good brand you like just have a look at their large breed formula ingredients & fat protein %..

Most small breed dog foods are higher in fat & higher in Kcals per cup, so avoid all small dog foods.. Have you looked at Senior foods? they normally are lower in fat around 10-12% fat & higher protein…
With his skin, I know Patches skin would itch with some of those ingredients in Purina One BUT Patches vet always tells me, we fix his stomach problems first then we’ll deal with his skin problems, in the mean time continue his weekly baths to relieve his itch & use baby creams to relieve any itchy red skin….

Have you looked at the Nulo Grain Free Style Weight management formula.
MedalSeries High-Protein Kibble weight management chicken & sweet potato recipe
Just becareful with fish dog foods the Nulo Cod & Lentil formula didn’t do well & came back High in Metals & Process Contaminates in this last testings…
Most of the Nulo fish formula’s the Puppy & Small breed also came back high in metals & contaminates but they have good ingredient quality….just got a bad fish supplier 🙁

This will not go away over night, it takes time to find the right dry food, the right ant acid meds, the right routine & feed more smaller meals a day instead of just the 2 bigger meals a day..
I know your head is probably spinning with all the info, but there might be something I do for Patch that might also help your boy, all the things that have helped Patch & alot of other dogs…
By the way what is his name??

[Ana C]

Hi Susan,

Any suggestions on low fat senior dog food for my schnauzer with pancreatitis history? They currently are taking Annamaet Grain Free Lean Recuced Fat kibbles. I also add some chicken, vegetables, salmon oil, and sometimes sardines in the water to the kibbles.

Thank you in the advance!

[Susan]

Hi Hope,
Here’s the wet & dry list of the Diabetic pet shop & online pet foods for diabetic dogs..
Scroll down list to the wet foods, your boy might enjoy wet foods more then the dry dog foods or rotate his foods, feed dry for breakfast & wet for lunch & dinner….

file:///C:/Users/sue66/OneDrive/Documents/Low%20Fat%20Pancreatitis%20
foods.pdf
I think you’ll have to type in link..

If you join the “Canine Diabetes Support & other Information” face book group, look in their file’s this food list is in their files & may have been up dated, more pet foods added….

[Carrie R]

Last weekend, my 8 year old schnoodle became very ill. We rushed to the vet and pancreatitis was the diagnosis. She spent two full days getting IV fluids at the very and upon return home on Wednesday, she began slowly eating and drinking on her own again and back to her peppy self. Her bowel movements are back to normal as well. I just Freaked out bc she vomited a very small amount. Am I over Reacting? Just worried sick about her . I know It takes time for them to fully recover but I am Not sure if I am Over reacting

[Patricia A]

I also have the same question with the fat in raw primal vs. the freeze dried of the same protein. I love the freeze dried but have a chubby Chi that needs less fat. Although I keep reading that it’s not the fat but the carbs which cause weight gain. Pancreatitis is a problem though for some dogs with high fat.
Written on Primal’s website it states that once rehydrated Nutritionally, a raw nugget is the same as a freeze-dried nugget when rehydrated or consumed with water! Does that mean the fat is the same as the raw?
Hope someone can explain about raw vs freeze dried with the same recipe.
I was under the impression that once hydrated the fat in the freeze dried would be the SAME as the raw?

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Patricia A.

[Susan]

Hi EM,
I’d see a vet, he might have Pancreatitis, Acid reflux, he needs blood test done, something is wrong for him, normally when food causes pain, acid reflux etc they become fussy & picky eaters as food has caused pain or a problem in the past & since dogs can’t talk & tell us whats wrong we have to some how work out what is wrong & causing pain…
Have you tried cooking a lean white meat turkey breast or chicken breast & boil some sweet potato, peeled & cut sweet potatoes into small bite size pieces. Sweet potato pieces freeze very well & thaw quickly in micowave 10sec or leave frozen sweet potato pieces on beach top for 30mins or put in fridge the night before…. reduce fat in diet if feeding any dry kibbles or any wet can foods..
Wet can foods are higher in fat then a dry kibble fat%…. so if you see say 5%min-fat on a wet can of food then that needs to be converted to dry matter fat (Kibble) & when you convert 5%min fat thats around 20%min to 25% max fat if it were a dry kibble, so 5%min is pretty high, you need get a wet can food under 3%max- fat & 78%-moisture for a wet can food bought from pet shop/supermarket.. hat will be under 10%ax -fat..

Best to buy the wet can food from a vet, buy a vet diet for Intestinal health as they are made to be low in fat… under 10% in fat
thats what I do, I buy the Hills & Royal Canine Low Fat wet can foods as the fat in these vet diets for stomach pancreas are lower in fat..
There’s “Hills I/d Digestive Care” Low Fat, Rice, Vegetable & Chicken Stew, your dog will probably eat this, it smells really good the fat is 9.5% max, the fat has been converted
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-low-fat-canine-rice-vegetable-and-chicken-stew-canned
Hills have converted the fat in all their Hills vet formula’s on the Hills site.
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-id-low-fat-canine-canned
Look at Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat, 2.5% max fat has not converted yet when converted the fat is 7-8% fat..
https://www.royalcanin.com/products/royal-canin-veterinary-diet-canine-gastrointestinal-low-fat-canned-dog-food-13.6-oz-24-cans-case-/47071
When a dog is ill they do prefer a wet food just becareful with the fat% as he might have Pancreatitis & need under 10% fat… they vomit have nausea & dont want to eat & get pain around their right side rib cage, dogs are their worst enermy as they are so good at hiding their pain…
I’d see a vet & get blood tests done, if you need to check stomach the only way to test a dogs stomach/digestive tract is Endoscope + Biopsies, Endoscope the vet can see into the stomach thru camera & the biopsoes can tell the vet whats wrong. Endoscope isn’t painful they go to vet practice in morning & are home by 3pm & allowed to eat a small meal, there’s no pain but it will cost around $800 AU that’s Australian $, so it will cost less for American vet, probably $400, you’ll get some answers if blood test came back OK…
or ask vet can you try an acid reducer-Pepcid (Famotidine) given 30mins before a meal twice a day or an Acid blocker- Prilosec (Omeprazole) 20mg given once a day in morning doesn’t need to be given on an empty stomach..
Best try either one for 5-10 days & see if there’s any improvement with him not wanting to eat..this will be the cheapest to do & see results….

[Karen G]

Thank you both for your replies.
A visit to vet yesterday revealed the Beagle’s kidney issue has advanced and we have to make a hard choice. Leaning towards spoiling her with filet mignon and ice cream before saying goodbye.
Pomeranian has acute pancreatitis so bland diet for a week (poor little guy).
Poodle is doing great, up 6lbs since last month and yet body fat content is great so she’ll stay on what she’s been in for now.
Thank again!

[Becca]

Lyme vaccine can also cause siezures, also oral or spot on flea meds. Also one of the anti seizure meds cause pancreatitis.

[Becca]

Lyme vaccine can also cause siezures, also oral or spot on flea meds. Also one of the anti seizure meds cause pancreatitis.

[Becca]

One of the anti seizure meds cause pancreatitis.

[Jamy R]

I have a rescue Blk Mouth Cur/ Lab 5 or 6 year old mix. She came to me with severe runs. The humane society had said they were giving her Blue Buffalo lamb and rice so we bought that. She didn’t like that. She did have worms. We went to the vet and they gave her antibiotics and worming meds. Feeding was always a problem till we mixed well cooked and drained ground beef, peas and green beans with sweet potato and mostly dog food. Dish by Rachel Ray… She always had terrible itching so we went to a new vet. She gave us pills for itching and asked about other things. We live in the woods so she also was given a lyme vaccine. She wasn’t drinking enough water that day. Two days later she had a seizure. My first thought was an issue with the vaccination or the anti-itch. We went back and many dollars later for labs, and iv for fluids, test for epilepsy. The only thing we found was very high amylase and lipase. DX was pancreatitis We put her on Hills special diet and day two she loves the food but is also on an antiseizure for this 4th of July weekend. I am hoping we can get the pancreatitis under control. Has it ever caused seizures that you know?

[aimee]

Hi Spycar,

Guess you just didn’t look deep enough if you only found one controversial study reporting salivary amylase in the dog. But as I said really I find it immaterial. Dogs don’t retain food in their mouths for long periods of time there would be no selective pressure to maintain it. It just seems silly to me that people trot out the dogs don’t have salivary amylase as a line in the sand type of thing as some studies report dogs have it and not all omnivores do.

In regards to New World monkeys, who do not make salivary amylase, in the herbivore, omnivore, carnivore scheme they are classified as omnivores. It could be said that frugivore is a type of omnivore which is how wkipedia defines it “A frugivore /fruːdʒɪvɔːr/ is a fruit eater. It can be any type of herbivore or omnivore where fruit is a preferred food type.”

But if you want to separate out the different feeding patterns than this descriptions should suit you better. This taken from an overview of the group “Diets also vary widely; some species are nearly completely folivorous (eating a diet of leaves), some are frugivores, and some are omnivores” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK232186/

Overfeeding any macronutrient leads to obesity.

Unfortunately your understanding of the pathophysiology of pancreatitis is incorrect. You wrote “excessive amylase destroys tissue in the pancreas.” Amylase breaks down bonds in starch.. starch is only found in plants. Amylase can not destroy the pancreas because the pancreas is not made of starch.

Dogs don’t become deconditioned via diet. High fat diets support stamina because the cells are filled with fat, the fuel is readily available. If you are going for intensity (anaerobic)that is where carb comes in. Sled dogs, endurance, low intensity exercise do best with high fat diets. Sprinters.. do best with a diet that contains a fairly significant amount of carb.

The activities that most people do with their dogs don’t fall into either extreme, racing greyhound vs endurance sled dog, and a balance of carb and fat is probably best. Dogs are very flexible in their requirements.

P.S. Tooth crowns will be cleaner with chewing activity but oral health(periodontal disease) was found not to be different between dogs and cats eating a natural diet vs a commercial food

[aimee]

Hi Spycar,

I thought we should look at some of the statements you made

You wrote: “Dogs were not shaped by evolution to consume carbohydrates. That’s a fact.”

Actually no… it is not a fact. this is why dogs are classified as omnivores. Now I know you’ll disagree with that fact. So let’s consult an entity which you trust .. the NRC. you wrote “…National Research Council of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences. The NRC is the world’s recognized leading authority on canine nutrition.” pg 6 Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats NRC ” Cats originate from a family comprised only of strict carnivores (Felidae), whereas dogs are omnivorous.”

Dogs are absolutely set up to consume carbohydrate. They have sweet receptors in their tongues. Hypercarnivores lack sweet receptors. There is no evolutionary pressure as hyper carnivores are not selecting and eating plant material. On the other hand sweet receptors are very functional and advantage to plant eaters. Sweet plant are generally safe to eat.

Next you wrote “Dogs have no capacity to produce salivary amylase (the enzyme necessary to digest starches/sugars/carbohydrates) all omnivores possess.”

Three parts to this statement “Dogs have no capacity to produce salivary amylase” But yet if you follow the literature salivary amylase is reported in the dog. And like humans the degree found is variable. So either the papers reporting it are wrong or the papers that report it doesn’t exist are wrong or maybe they are both right and depends on who you sample and how you sample. Really though it would be of little benefit as dogs don’t keep food in their mouths a long time before swallowing so it is rather immaterial if they have it or not

Part 2 “(the enzyme necessary to digest starches/sugars/carbohydrates).. Amylase is only important for starch digestion. Simple sugars are handled differently.

Part 3 “all omnivores possess. Where did you get this information from? Certainly not the scientific literature. Some omnivores have salivary amylase and some do not. Monkeys are omnivores. Old world monkeys have salivary amylase, New World Monkeys do not.

You wrote “Dogs, in a trait that is unevenly distributed in the population, have acquired a capacity to produce amylase in their pancreas.” Goodness you make it sound like dog’s can barely squeak out a bit of amylase. They can easily make gobs of amylase. My past dog lost ~ 90 % of her pancreas and yet had no problems with digesting a high starch diet.

You wrote “But producing pancreatic amylase is not the optimal or normal condition for dogs and –as mentioned–the capacity is highly variable.” Where do you get this “not optimal or normal” from? Please cite peer reviewed sources.

You wrote ” To take a marginal capacity (that is a dog’s ability to produce enough pancreatic amylase) a push it to the maximum by feeding dogs highly unnatural carbohydrate-rich cereal-based diets puts tremendous strain on that organ. It is an assault on the pancreas. It sets up a dog to be sick. Often the precipitating event that leads to pancreatitis is the consumption (by a sickened dog) of a high-fat meal that it is unaccustomed to eating. This happens because the pancreas becomes conditioned to spilling the “wrong” digestive enzymes to metabolize fat and in the confusion, those “wrong” enzymes instead attack the tissues of the pancreas causing damage…..etc

That simply is a fantasmical story conjured up by people with an agenda. Cite some peer reviewed papers that support this.. The pancreas has tremendous capacity for enzyme production and makes no sense to say that making lipase is a walk in the park but making amylase is “stressful” What would the mechanism be?

Enzymes become confused?? Really?? Enzymes are very specific in what they can do.

The rest of your “pancreas” story is more of the same..

Let’s revisit your recognized authority on canine nutrition the NRC .. again you wrote “The NRC is the world’s recognized leading authority on canine nutrition.” If carbohydrates are as awful for dog as you claim they are certainly that information would be published by the “world’s recognized leading authority on canine nutrition”. Yet it is no where to be found
in the 30 + odd pages on the digestibility and use of carbohydrates in the 2006 edition of Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats. There is no safe upper limit imposed by NRC on the incorporation of carbohydrate in canine diets ..but there is for fat

Maybe a clue can be found in looking at their recommended levels for fat. Does the NRC recommend high fat levels for dogs? Actually no they do not. The NRC recommended amount of fat for an adult dog at maintenance ( as opposed to reproduction or growth) is 13.8 grams/1000kcals. Assuming 8.5 kcals/gram that is 117 kcals from fat for every 1000 kcals fed or 11.7% fat calories, far below what you recommend.

Recommended amount of protein is 25 grams/1000 kcals, 3.5 X 25 =87.5grams/1000kcals or 8.7% protein calories. 11.7% recommended fat calories +8.7% protein calories =20.4% That leave a lot of room for a lot of carbohydrate : )

Dogs are very flexible.

As you recognize the NRC as “the world’s recognized leading authority on canine nutrition.” and I don’t disagree with you there, I’d advise you to pick up a copy of “Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats” and read it!

[Spy Car]

Ryan, would you consider a short-term trial boiling up some lean chicken and perhaps either lean beef heart and/or lean pork (like tenderloin) and a small amount of liver and kidney (5% of each)?

Then adding 1/2 teaspoon of finely ground eggshell to the cooled mix to maintain a calcium/phosphorus mineral balance. No rice.

Has the vet given any suggestion there is an emergent problem with pancreatitis or other good reasons for restricting fats? I would not make a decision on a new kibble without that knowledge. Otherwise, I’ve expressed my strong preference for a high-protein/high-fat diet over a high-carb option, all things being equal.

Have you spoken with the vet about checking for hypothyroidism and diabetes? These can whack out triglyceride levels.

I’m sorry you and your dog are suffering so much. You are an obviously conscientious owner. Sorry to see you in such a tough spot.

Best,

Bill

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Spy Car.

[Spy Car]

@Ryan, your dog is likely sedentary as a direct result of being fed a high-carb ration.

That is to say, high carb diets directly reduce stamina and vitality. Such dogs will show very poor aerobic capacity when tested on treadmills and their VO2 Max scores are tested. The food actually de-conditions the dogs.

A study was done on such dogs. Overweight couch potato types who were fed high-carb diets. The VO2 max scores were terrible. The same dogs were shifted to a high-protein/high-fat diet. When re-tested after a time on this diet (with no other changes in lifestyle) the VO2 Max score soared to nearly the same levels as highly conditioned dogs, based on that dietary change alone.

The reason is that dogs have an amazingly efficient capacity to metabolize fat for sustained energy. It is the food they thrive on. In contrast, a dog fed a high-carb diet will have a brief period of energy and then a bust where it crashes and sleeps.

Sadly, I think too many dog owners like the effect of “tranquilizing” their dogs through bad diets, sorry to say. Those de-conditioning diets lead to ill health on a variety of levels.

Dogs with stamina and vitality have those things in direct relationship with their diets. The increased metabolic activity helps keep such dogs trim and well-muscled.

I’m very happy to hear about the good test results! Definitely work with the vet to ensure there is no contraindicating condition for moving to a higher fat diet (like emerging pancreatitis), but overall it is a much healthier option for dogs.

Your dog certainly can (and should) eat like a sled dog, it just requires much less food. You’d see a big increase in vitality and health.

When dogs are fed junk food all the consequences, from obesity, to bad lipid profiles, to bad skin, bad teeth, to stressed organs, follows.

proper nutrition is not for sled dogs and sporting dogs alone. The falsehood that is is is one of the most damaging untruths in canine nutrition (or should we say malnutrition) and is the reason so many dogs suffer needlessly from ill health.

Again, congrats on the good test results!

Bill

[Spy Car]

@aimee, labeling the obvious as “propaganda” and horse manure is….

Dogs were not shaped by evolution to consume carbohydrates. That’s a fact.

Dogs have no capacity to produce salivary amylase (the enzyme necessary to digest starches/sugars/carbohydrates) all omnivores possess. When omnivores chew plant matter those salivary enzymes start working to digest the food.

This doesn’t/can’t happen with dogs, as they lack the capacity.

Dogs, in a trait that is unevenly distributed in the population, have acquired a capacity to produce amylase in their pancreas. This aided them, as opposed to their wolf species-mates (who have less capacity) in surviving as opportunistic carnivores in a relationship with humans.

But producing pancreatic amylase is not the optimal or normal condition for dogs and –as mentioned–the capacity is highly variable.

To take a marginal capacity (that is a dog’s ability to produce enough pancreatic amylase) a push it to the maximum by feeding dogs highly unnatural carbohydrate-rich cereal-based diets puts tremendous strain on that organ. It is an assault on the pancreas. It sets up a dog to be sick.

Often the precipitating event that leads to pancreatitis is the consumption (by a sickened dog) of a high-fat meal that it is unaccustomed to eating. This happens because the pancreas becomes conditioned to spilling the “wrong” digestive enzymes to metabolize fat and in the confusion, those “wrong” enzymes instead attack the tissues of the pancreas causing damage.

Fat gets “blamed” for pancreatitis and the stressed and ill effects of a high-carb diet in sickening the pancreas is ignored. Dogs who eat a high-fat diet as a matter of course (and as intended my nature) do not work their pancreases overtime. Nor do they confuse the pancreas with which digestive enzymes to release. As a result, pancreatitis is very rare among those dogs and not-at-all uncommon in dogs fed high-carb kibble diets.

The pancreas has two functions.

One is to release digestive enzymes, and high-carb diets clearly undermine pancreatic health through a demand for excessive levels of pancreatic enzymes and causing a predisposition for pancreatitis.

The other is to regulate blood sugars. Again, an unnatural high-carb causes wild swings in a bogs blood sugar levels. Boom and bust. The pancreas has to work overtime in an attempt to control for a diet that isn’t species appropriate. This also takes a toll on pancreatic health.

Such a diet sets up a dog for pancreatic problems.

In contrast, fat metabolism keeps a dog’s blood sugars extremely even. They produce steady glucose supplies easily and on demand in a slow and steady fashion that places no strain on the pancreas. This promotes good pancreatic health.

So with both pancreatic functions, the “endocrine function” that regulates blood sugars) and the “exocrine function” (that produces digestive enzymes) fat metabolism works with nature to promote pancreatic health and high vitality.

In contrast, a high-carb diet taxes the pancreas by requiring it to produce excessive (and wholly unnatural) amounts of pancreatic amylase due to feeding a modern processed cereal-based food. Then the stress on the pancreas is compounded on the exocrine by the wild ride of trying to control blood sugars.

Those assaults on pancreatic health set up high-carb eating dogs to be sick. Not “propaganda,” but an honest evaluation of dog physiology. The junk-food diet is at the root of the problem. That’s what happens when species inappropriate food is marketed for dogs.

Bill

[aimee]

Spycar,

I call horse manure on this “The same unhealthful high carb diets can stress the pancreas (by causing an unnatural demand on pancreatic amylase) and that can be a factor in dog’s developing pancreatitis.”

Not a single shred of of evidence for this. Propaganda! I expect better from you!

Ryan,
I’m glad she made it too.. She dies many years ago at the age of nearly 14. She always had a high glucose after that incident, but not so high as to need insulin. A large part of her pancreas was destroyed. She lived out her life on a high carb low fat diet and didn’t have any more troubles.

[Spy Car]

Ryan, do you have a fasting triglyceride result back yet?

I was under the impression the re-test results were not back yet, yes/no?

I’d work with your vet to rule out obvious issues like hypothyroidism or diabetes before jumping to a conclusion that your dog has pancreatic issues.

The same unhealthful high carb diets can stress the pancreas (by causing an unnatural demand on pancreatic amylase) and that can be a factor in dog’s developing pancreatitis. If the dog does have signs of pancreatitis then a high-fat diet would be counter-indicated. It’s a bad cycle.

One thing I think we can all agree on is work with the vet to know what’s actually going on.

Bill

[aimee]

Ryan,
When a dog eats fat the triglyceride level in the blood increases, and then it clears. In normal dogs the triglyceride level really shouldn’t exceed 500 and then it falls back to a “resting” level. Your dog’s triglyceride level was over 2000 Blood triglyceride levels over 1400 are associated with pancreatitis.

My dog had fat metabolism problems and it sounds like your dog also might have this problem. Please talk to your vet. These are not normal dogs .. they can not tolerate fat levels that other dogs can. She nearly died after one meal of 20% fat content. She got into the cat food. Though I knew she had problems with triglycerides and the only thing that kept them in check was a low fat diet I didn’t recognize how life threatening a single high fat meal could be. A single meal and she had necrotizing pancreatitis. She was taken into surgery and the Dr called and told me that there was only a small portion of her pancreas that wasn’t black and dead. He didn’t think she would survive.. her belly swollen with fluid from sterile peritonitis…she was in critical care for days on end. I visited every day thinking it would be her last. bloody fluid draining from her abdomen.. it was awful somehow she lived. It was over 2 months before she had her full strength back.

For dogs that have fat metabolism abnormalities the fat percentage in the diet should be significantly lower than what it was in the diet being fed when the high triglyceride blood level was identified.

Your dog’s level was 2081, a normal dog even after eating a high fat meal shouldn’t exceed 500. Does it make sense to feed a high fat diet to a dog that may be missing key enzymes needed to metabolize fat? Again normal less than 500 … your dog 2081.

Here is an article on the problem https://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/the-benefit-of-low-fat-pet-food-in-dogs-with-gi-disease/

Best of luck

[aimee]

Hi Ryan,

Triglycerides over 2000 yikes! I have some experience with this problem. When triglycerides are this high they can result in a variety of problems. Intestinal discomfort, vomiting, diarrhea, behavior abnormalities, seizures and pancreatitis have all been reported. This is serious stuff! It makes me wonder if the intermittent pain your dog is having is in any way related to abdominal discomfort from high triglycerides.

From what I gather you temporally put your dog on a chicken and rice diet and then the triglycerides were normal. So the good news is that it appears diet responsive. Chicken breast and rice is a low fat diet if that is what you were feeding. To know how much you need to feed you’d feed an equivalent calories to the former diet. Rice is ~200 kcal /cup for steamed white rice and chicken breast is about 120 kcals for 100 grams

What you absolutely do not want to do is follow the well meaning but misguided recommendation from spycar to feed a high fat diet (20% was rec,) low carb diet! This would be a recipe for disaster ..literally.

If a secondary cause (for example hormonal problems) is found and treated than feeding a low fat diet may not be needed. But feeding a low fat diet is the foundation of treatment of primary hypertriglyceridemia.
It looks like your vet is on top of this by recommending a low fat diet. If your dog doesn’t like the first commercial low fat ask for a different one. You’ll need a diet significantly lower in fat than the one your dog was on when the high level was found. Work with your vet.. this is a serious problem!

Some dogs can use commercial diets usually low fat vet diets but others need to work with a nutritionist for ultra low fat diet. Balance it dot com has some semi customized recipes if you need to go that route.

[Patricia A]

I have been feeding my Chihuahuas Primal and Stella Chewy’s as a topper. The advisor listed both of these as his choices for his 2018 top choice food list and as being 5*. I was also looking into Vital Essentials and Wysong . Vital essentials has high protein low carbs but AVERAGE fat. Wysong freeze dried has actually BELOW average fat with the high protein and low carbs. Is there a strong benefit to having the above average fat in raw such as in the Primal and Stella’s.Why wouldn’t the raw commercial company strive for their product to be high protein average fat and low carbs. Wouldn’t MOST dogs do better being that some dogs are prone to pancreatitis . Also a good many dogs are overweight or are more sedentary during the winter months. So again..what IS the benefit of the higher fat since these foods have such a high ratings. Is it possible that the company is stating low fat when it’s not? Thank you . Hope I’m making sense with my questions.

• This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.
• This topic was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Patricia A.

[Susan]

Hi Ryan,
if your cooking Chicken & Rice start adding some veggies, broccoli, carrot etc & start balancing 1 of his meals a day or over the week add things that will balance his diet over 1 week, in Australia we have “NAS Digestiavite Plus Powder” I had to mix thru Patches cooked or raw meal was just 1/2 a teaspoon & it didnt smell of vitamins, it smelt nice like spinach & kale its green powder & has everything to balance a dogs diet…..
Take back the Hills 1/d dry kibble, I would of gotten him the wet Hills Digestive Care I/d Chicken, Vegetables & Rice wet can food, it smells really good, its balanced & formulated for a few health problems, sounds like your dog doesn’t like dry kibble, I wouldn’t flare up his Allergies, I’ve been feeding Patch Chicken since March, the Wellness Core Large Breed formula cause the fat is low/medium, protein % is med/high & carbs are low & Kcals are 345 per cup & Patch does well on it BUT now he has red paws, red around his mouth, he cant eat too much Chicken, the chicken agrees with his IBD/Stomach but not his skin… Have you tried “Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato ? I buying a bag tomorrow, my cat even likes the Wellness kibbles but she wouldnt eat te TOTW kibble also teh Wellness is palabity money back guaranteed…you have to read thru all the Wellness formula’s ingredients for no lentils, the Natural Balance Potato & Duck or Sweet Potato & Fish doesnt have lentils or chickpeas or Probiotics…
Ive read that Probiotics die by the time we get the kibble or once exposed to heat?? I dont know if this is correct..

Tin Salmon & Sardines in Spring Water or Olive Oil will help balance his diet, Sardines are very healthy, Sardines have vitamins minerals, Omega 3 are very healthy, just read salt % & buy brand with the lowest salt %, add 2 spoons to 1 of his meals a day, also crush up 1 egg shell a day & add to 1 of his cooked meal for calcium…
I often buy tin salmon in spring water, for making sandwiched the smaller cans, I drain all the spring water & add a few pieces of boiled sweet potatoes, 1/2 salmon & 1/2 boiled sweet potato & mix & give only 1/2 for a meal & the other 1/2 the next day… dogs love fresh fish..
I’d look at “Judy Morgan DVM” face book page, look at her videos & “Pancreatitis Diet” her “IBD Diet” she has easy to make cooked balanced meals, you just put everything in a Slow Cooker, then freeze meals, probably healthier then feeding dry kibbles…
Your dog is smart & he can smell the off meat in the dry kibble or he can smell the vitamins & omega oils in the vet diets something is turning him off…

[Susan]

Hi Ryan,
do you have the money to see a animal nutritionist? & get a balanced cooked diet, join a few Facebook groups “K-9Kitchen” run by Monica Segal, Monica does balanced diets for health problems….
there’s “K-9 Nutrition” group run by Lew Olson…
also “Judy Morgan DVM” look at her videos on her F/B page she has a few home made balanced easy to make meals…

When a dog is shaking its normally PAIN related, aso having diarrhea he probably was having intestinal pain could it have been Pancreas? did vet do blood test for Pancreatitis? also your dog might have IBD, my boy has IBD & he shakes when he has his stomach pain, I thought he was having Pancreatitis attacks cause he gets all the symptoms & he was shaking really bad, but blood test have always come back all good, no pancreatitis & the vet just says its his IBD, its stomach pain….
So I have excepted he doesnt have Pancreatitis & its his IBD causing him pain after he has eaten something it has caused him bad pain, he does lift one of his front paws & wants me to rub his stomach/pancres area when he gets this pain & shakes….
What was he eating when this was happening? was it a high fiber diet??
Dogs have a short Digestive Tract, so they do better eating low fiber or no fiber at all my vet told me, how are his poos since starting the Hills I/d Digestive Care formula, are his poos firm, cause the Hills I/d Digestive Care formula’s are lower in fiber ??
Try the Hills I/d low fat digestive care wet can food, I feed the Hills I/d Chicken,Vegetables & Rice wet can formula, it has less rice, No Fish Oil & has 14.9%-fat, I have to pick out all the boiled rice but Patch loves it for lunch & the cat gets all his rice & gravy she loves it.
Hills have improve their vet diets & brought out some really nice wet can stews…

Just ask your vet if you want to try a certain vet formula you think has OK ingredients & might agree with your boy.. I’d stick with the vet diets, they are balanced properly & made for certain health problems, some vet diets will help a few different health problems if you read “Key Benefits, look at
Hill’s® Prescription Diet® w/d® Canine Vegetable & Chicken Stew it’s for a few health problems, maybe talk with your vet about trying the Hills W/d formula??
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-wd-canine-vegetable-and-chicken-stew-canned#accordion-content-054167331-2

Have you tried “Natural Balance” LTD Potato & Duck formula the fat is low-10% & fiber-3%, but you have to remember when the protein% & fat % is lower the Carbs are higher this is when weight gain happens if they are couch potatoes & dont excercise daily, The Natural Balance limited ingredient formula’s have all different ingredients so make sure you look at the ingredient list…
I would be feeding 3 small meals a day, same time every day, I’d feed 1-2 meals cooked meal or vet diet wet can food & the other meal the dry kibble… I feed 4-5 meals a day but my dog weighs 40lbs
https://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dog-formulas/special-category-limited-ingredient-diets

Here’s N/B Small Breed Potato & Duck, it has no probiotics
https://www.chewy.com/natural-balance-lid-limited/dp/36763

There’s Hills Prescription Weight Loss vet diet?? Ive heard dogs have very good results with this HIlls weight loss vet diet formula, Hills have brought out their
Hill’s® Prescription Diet® Metabolic Natural Canine
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-metabolic-natural-canine-dry

There’s Hill’s™ Prescription Diet™ Metabolic + Mobility Canine formula its lower in carbs-36%, the fat is a bit higher-14.6% in fat, probably from from all the omega oils for joint health, https://www.hillspet.com.au/dog-food/pd-metabolic-canine-dry

*Metabolic + Mobility Canine has clinically proven nutrition to improve mobility in as little as 21 days AND reduce body weight by 13% in 60 days.

*Hill’s® Prescription Diet® Metabolic Canine Lamb Meal & Rice Formula
https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-metabolic-canine-lamb-meal-and-rice-formula-dry#accordion-content-054167331-2

There’s Hills Prescription Diet™ Metabolic Canine Vegetable & Beef Stew or
Hill’s™ Prescription Diet™ Metabolic + Mobility Canine Vegetable & Tuna Stew
ingredients look good & no cooking, no balancing cooked diet.
Here’s all Hills Weight Loss formula’s
https://www.hillspet.com/search?_BRAND=pd&_CONDITION=weightCondition&_SPECIES=dog

BUT 1 thing all of Hills Weight Loss formula’s are high in fiber, if your dog does OK with higher fiber & doesn’t get any pain or sloppy poos eating high fiber then try feeding the wet can foods, wet food is easier to digest then hard kibble….

I have found when a dog becomes picky with its food they normally have stomach problems & food has caused them pain so they become very fussy & when a certain food has caused them pain they will refuse to eat that food, so best to stop feeding whatever it is & read ingredients, read fiber %, the Kcals per cup??
Try & work out what is causing pain ….
Good-Luck

[Susan]

Hi Marjorie,
when I got my rescued dog that afternoon while he was doing a wee he was weeing blood, I quickly rung the rescue lady & she said contact our vet, the vet said we’ll do Ultra Scan while he’s being desexed on Monday, after he was desexed, the vet rung me & said he has Urinary Crystals probably from being used as a breeding dog he has caught an infection, I said what happens now? the vet said, he needs to be on a vet diet for 6 weeks & eat no other foods, no treats, nothing or the crystal wont dissolve properly, when I went to picked him up she gave me a cartoon of the Royal Canine S/O Urinary cans x 12 cans & a bag of the Royal Canine S/O Urinary dry kibble & said feed the dry R/C S/O kibble for breakfast & for dinner feed him 1/2 a can of the R/C S/O wet can food, then she said, I’m given him cartoon of the wet can food so he has variety just incase he wont eat the dry S/O kibble, then she booked him to come back in 7 weeks for another Ultra Scan to see if all his crystal had dissolved, 7 weeks later we went back to see vet, he had his Ultra Scan & no more crystals, they had all disovled, the vet said now put him back on normal food & thats when my nightmare started, Patch had IBD & while he was eating the Royal Canine S/O wet & dry food it was agreeing with him & he didnt have any reactions to ingredients…

The only thing about the Hills & Royal Canine vet diets for Urinary problems is the fat, it’s a bit high, so if your girl has Pancreatitis make sure you tell the vet about the higher fat in these vet diets, the fat in the wet can food is around 17-18% the dry kibble is 17%max
Not recommended for (contraindications):
Chronic renal failure, metabolic acidosis
Heart failure
Pancreatitis or history of pancreatitis
Hyperlipidaemia
In conjunction with the use of urine-acidifying drugs
Pregnancy
Lactation
Growth

Feeding a vet diet for 2 months will work out cheaper then if your girl gets a blockage & needs an operation, it will be more expensive, I dont think she needs to be on the Urinary vet diet for 6 months ?? Patches crystals all dissolved within 6 weeks & he had a lot of crystals, they look like big rock salts…

I ended up contacting a Naturopath Jaqueline Rudan for Patches IBD
Here’s a Acidifying Diet, Urinary Crystals Diet, it gives you an idea about ingredients to feed after her crystals have dissolved with the vet diet, its a raw diet but it can be cooked as long as there’s no cooked bone…
http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/Shop/2016/03/15/acidifying-diet-urinary-crystals/

[a c]

James P. Thank you for sharing. I also feed Wellness Core Grain Free Reduced fat. I mix it with Annamaet Grain Free Lean Reduced fat. I believed both are rated with 5 stars by dogfoodadvisor.com. I think Wellness Core is slight higher in protein and fiber, but I like the fact that it is available at local pet stores.

I made a mistake and feed commercial raw last year, after everyone told me raw is the best, to my 10 years old girls. That triggered pancreatitis to one girl. She was put on Science Diet ID wet food by our vet. I still have a few Science Diet ID cans on hand. That’s my to go food when she doesn’t act right.

I also add some fresh vegetable and the meat that we have for dinner to the kibbles, and sometimes a spoon full of wet food as topper.

My two 11 years old’s annual check up is coming up. Do your miniature schnauzers have any schnauzer bumps?

[Susan]

@ Taylor

you are not a vet, not all dogs might have the health problems your dog or my dog has BUT
Eileen needs to try everything first, diet change, ant acid med & speak with her vet & do the proper testing before putting any dog on dangerous drugs…
a few people that have posted on this DFA post, have confirmed their dogs do have IBD as I see their posts in the IBD & Pancreatitis F/B canine groups….

Your dog may not of had stomach problems but more dogs do end up with stomach problems then Epilepsy seizures.. It’s up to a vet to diagnose these dogs not you…

[James P]

a c
For years we fed Blue Buffalo Life Protection Formula Small Breed Chicken and Rice mixed with Blue Buffalo Freedom Grain Free Small Breed Chicken Recipe. We had a few upset stomachs here and there, but no pancreatitis, which too much fat in miniature schnauzers diet causes. Then we screwed up and started adding some off brand canned food I had found cheap, just because we wanted them to have a little something special. The canned food apparently had too much fat and gave one of my girls pancreatitis.

Once we got her cured I wanted to significantly drop the fat in their diet just so she would not have any repeats as I am afraid that once they have pancreatitis, they are prone to it. We now still feed the Blue Buffalo Life Protection Formula Small Breed Chicken and Rice, but now mix it with Wellness Core Grain Free Reduced Fat. The Wellness Core Reduced Fat is a well rated food and I would feel comfortable feeding it alone if I had to.

I have read that sometimes Grain Free foods can have too much protein and cause kidney problems. That is another reason why I feed a combination of a grain free food with a light grain/vegetable food. Our oldest schnauzers will turn 13 this year and we did their blood work last fall. Their levels were all great with no problems at all.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by James P.

[Eileen H]

Hi Fanette,
Sorry to hear you are having so many issues. Unfortunately I know how you feel. My dog (Dolce who is 5) was diagnosed with pancreatitis/IBD about 2 years ago. My Vet put him on Royal Canin Gastrointestinal food which is low fat/higher protein and probiotics. He was doing great on that diet. However about 3 months ago his tests came back and he has kidney disease. Also because his kidneys weren’t functioning properly his blood pressure was high so he is on medication for that which has helped lower it significantly. Have you had that checked? We switched him to a low protein diet which is higher in fat and he couldn’t tolerate the fat. So we mixed in white rice and a very small piece of chicken (1 tsp). We ended up having to put him back on the gastrointestinal food and antibiotics to get his pancreatitis under control. Once that is better we are going to try Hills G/D prescription food to see if he can tolerate the fat content. If he can’t I’m not sure what else to do. There is the Balanceit Diet that we considered but it is all supplements which I don’t know much about.

I’d love to hear other people’s thoughts/comments if they have had similar issues with their
dogs.

Thanks!

[Susan]

Hi Baileys Mom,
Join this face book group, link below, 2 Dermatologist frequent this group + 1 of the Admins dog suffers with Yeast, her dog is allergic to her own yeast, it’s rare but it happens… https://www.facebook.com/groups/240043826044760/
As they age their allergies get worse… Are you seeing a Dermatologist?

My boy also gets yeasty paws, red around mouth & yeasty smelly skin but only when he eats certain ingredients he is sensitive too & when he walks on grass & wet grass..
He suffers with Food Sensitivities, Seasonal Environment Allergies & IBD, this last Summer has been his WORST Summer he has ever had in the 5 yrs I’ve owned him.
I live Australia & we did not have a Autunm this year, it went from hot Summer straight to cold Winter, my vet also said she is seeing heaps more dogs suffering with Environment Allergies last Summer 2017-2018….. Cause of climate change & our Summers are getting hotter & hotter, animals, plants etc are all suffering…

Make sure when you cook or do a raw diet it’s balanced properly & is high in Omega 3 oils, as Omega 3 is Neutral anti-inflammatory. Here’s “Balance It” site, https://secure.balanceit.com/

*also have you tried “Rayne Canada” vet diets? http://www.raynecanada.ca/canine-diets/
Ranye has Kangaroo, Crocodile & Rabbit formula’s, ingredients in Rayne formula’s seem a bit better
….also did you try the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb that’s what Patch ended up doing really good on for 2 yrs then he became very unwell last Novemeber after I moved he stopped eating his TOTW… listen to your dog if he doesnt want to eat something, dont feed it, return the food & get a refund….We have just had a heap of dogs die & get Megaesophagus in Australia from the Advance Dermocare formula.. Test that were done found very high in toxins, everyone is still waiting for test results…the poor Police dogs are feed the Advance Dermocare or Advance dog foods..
Patch never did well on the Australian prescription vet diets for his skin, they would clear up his skin problem but not his red paws & then he’d start reacting with his IBD cause the fat was too high.. One good thing the Skin Vet Diets are very high in Omega oils, but this upset Patches stomach, he gets bad acid reflux, I wonder if that’s why Bailey is feeling yuk & miserable..being a Shih Tzu mix, they can suffer from Pancreatitis, so be careful with high fat diets, we don’t realise cause we just want them to stop their itching & scratching it drives me nuts so imagine the poor dog feeling so itchy 24/7..

I use “Sudocrem” on Patches paws & around his mouth & anywhereon his skin that’s red, Sudocem is a anti-fungal, anti-bacterial healing cream for Dermatitis, Eczema, Nappy Rash, Pressure Sores, I apply every night before bed so he has a good sleep & in morning on his paws before he goes outside for his walk, the Sudocrem is a thick cream & also protects their skin & paws from allergens.

Also “Canine Skin Solutions” on FaceBook is Dr Karen Helton Rhodes, DVM, DACVD & Dr Terri Bonenberger, DVM, DACVD both are Veterinary Dermatologists. Good site with true information..
https://www.facebook.com/CanineSkinSolutionsInc/

* Here’s their “Facts & Myths about Yeast Dematitis in dog”s..
http://www.healthyskin4dogs.com/blog/2015/9/8/facts-myths-about-yeast-dermatitis-in-dogs

There’s alot of bad information on the internet about why dogs get yeasty, smelly, itchy skin, ears, paws etc potaoes, high carb starchy foods, high sugar diets are suppose to cause yeasty smelly dogs….Not true… its only when your dog is sensitive to certain ingredients they will get yeasty itchy smelly skin, ears, paws…. Patch can’t eat rice, oats, barley, tapioca causes red itchy paws & smelly yeasty skin, bad farts sloppy poos & carrots cause very itchy ears & he shakes & shakes his head/ears..

The only way 100% to find out what foods Bailey is sensitive too is to start a food elimination diet BUT cause he probably has environment allergies as well it’s hard cause you might feed him say rice & then he starts scratching 20mins after he has eaten the rice or new ingredient your testing but he might be re acting to tree or flower pollen from outside in garden?, so I always recommend you do your food elimination diet is the cooler months, Winter when allergens aren’t as high, as they are in Spring & Summer months…
Patch is at his worst every March just when Summer has finished also keep a diary & you will work out what months seem to be the worst for Bailey. Patches vet said she sees Patch every March when his IBD flares up really bad cause his immune system goes into over drive & Patches IBD flare up really bad also high potency Vitamin C is good, also probiotic to strengthen the immune system… Prednisone is a bandaid as soon as you stop giving the Prednisone the itchy skin all comes back…. have you tried Cytopoint injections yet? this is why it’s best to join the “Dog Allergies, Issues & other information support group” right up the top is their link…

[Susan]

Hi Black,

Change vet, are you in a another country?
its “not” normal for your dog to be vomiting, what colour is the vomit?
is it white & frothy, yellow, blood? take photo & see a new vet…

Start to cook a very lean white meat, either chicken, turkey or pork, NO fatty meats & boil some potato or boil sweet potato, sweet potato soothes the stomach also pumkin is good as well add 1 spoon boiled pumkin… add 1/2 boiled meat & 1/2 potato & feed 3-4 smaller meals a day, no large meals….
Might be Pancreatitis????

[pitlove]

Hi Brianne-

While we have textbooks that list out symptoms a dog should have given a particular disease, our dogs don’t follow the textbook and can present in ways other than what they “should” present as. For instance, if a dog had cancer you would think their bloodwork would be completely off the wall crazy, but I’ve seen perfect bloodwork with dogs that are known cancer patients.

When you run bloodwork and the value exceeds what the computer can read it does not matter what the number is, it still means it is too high. His diagnosis would not change if it was 2,000 or 4,000. There is a normal range for amylase and lipase levels and his were well out of the normal range. If he is doing well on the current diet, he needs to remain on that diet until those levels have come back to a normal range. Then you can explore another food.

Also, intermittent vomitting is not normal at all. I see clients daily that believe it is normal for their dog to vomit on occassion and as long as it is not frequent they are fine. This is not the case. Once you get the pancreatitis under control I would consider moving away from Blue Buffalo. It is not a very good company or product in general and it’s clear your dog actually was not doing well on it (picky behavior, vomitting).

[Susan]

Hi Brianne,
My boy has IBD, he gets bad acid reflux & gets Pancreas/stomach pain lifts his right paw up whinges & wants me to rub around his stomach & Pancreas area, we have done the blood test & Ultra scan for Pancreatitis & everything comes back OK his Gastro vet says its his IBD, its his stomach….
If your dog isnt really interested in his Blue Bufflo kibble change it & find a kibble or low fat wet can or Freeze Dried raw kibble to feed him, I have found I need to rotate between a few foods that agree with him, they must be low/medium fat around 10%min to 14% max in fat, Protein over 25% & Carbs under 30% & fiber under 4%..
A dogs digestive tract is short & ment to digest a raw meaty diet not these processed dry kibbles, this is why I think so many dogs are having stomach & bowel problems……

My boy loves the Hills I/d Chicken & Vegetable Stew wet can food & the Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat wet can food I just get a paper towel & pat down & dry all the oil from the Royal Canin low fat wet food, Why I buy teh Vet Diet Wet can foods cause the fat is low where pet shop went can foods are higher in fat…
Patch gets his acid when a food has fish/salmon oils, he does well on Canola & sunflower oils…
Have you tried an ant acid reducer like Pepcid or Zantac ? you give 30mins before 2 of his main meals a day, my boy is on an ant acid blocker now he started off on Omeprazole (Prilosec) took it for 2 yrs then around December last year I moved & Patch went down hill really bad, I asked his vet can he do another Endoscope + Biopsies you must ask for the Biopsies so the vet knows what is really happening in stomach, my Patches Sphincter flap isn’t closing & the acid is coming up his esophagus into his mouth & went back down into his wind pipe this probably why he became so unwell the beginning of the year, I nilly put him to sleep he just gave up it was awful to watch, also his Helicobacter-Pylori were come back & he had Gastritis stomach…so he was put on 21 day triple therapy meds Metronidazole Amoxcillin & Prilosec given every 12 hours with a full meal, then after the 21 days I continued giving just 1 x 20 Prilosec tablet of a morning for his acid reflux & to keep his Helicotor away, it lives in their stomach walks & loves sugary carbs (kibble)
In the end I had to stop any wet foods cause they kept coming up into hois mouth causing bad acid reflux, I found Wellness Core Large Breed dry kibble & he’s doing really well now, he’s acting like a puppy, he isnt a large breed dog he’s an English Staffordshire Terrier, the Wellness Core Large Breed formula is low/med Fat-13%, Protein-35%, Carbs-31% low in Kcals per cup -345Kcals per cup & is high in Omega 3 & has Glusomine & Chondroitin helping his joints & bones he’s 9ys old & it has no chickpeas or lentils…

I’d change his diet, if you can cook 1-2 of his meals a lean white meat with boiled sweet potatoes, sweet potato freezes really well & feed his other 2 meals the Wellness Core large Breed formula, try & feed 3-4 smaller meals a day, I feed him at 7am, 9am-1/2 cup kibble both times 12pm-wet can food or cooked food or his freeze dried raw food & 5pm -1/2 cup kibble & 8pm-1/3 kibble, & try an ant acid reducer first either the Pepcid (Famotidine) or Zantac (Ranitidine) 30 mins before 2 of his main meals, if they dont really help him then ask vet about trying Omeprazole (Prilosec) 20mg best given first thing of the morning just wait about 20mins then feed him but you dont really dont have to wait before feeding him as Prilosec is a Protein Pump Inhibitor (PPI) sends a msg to the brain not to make as much Hydrochloric acid in the stomach, where the Zantac & Pepcid works differently & I found didnt really help Patch… You will see results within 2-3 days after using the Omeprazole..
Sometimes I also give Patch either 5ml liquid Mylanta or 1/2 a Quick-eze chew when he has vomited up acid these line his throat & eosphagus & make him feel better…

[Brianne H]

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum, but I wanted to see if anyone has experienced something similar with their dog;

(I have read the other Pancreatitis posts, but my Dog’s symptoms are a bit different.)

So my Dog, Koumpi, is a 6 year old Maltipoo. We got him when he was a puppy, and he had been eating Blue Buffalo food pretty much since we got him, with no issues (at least as far as we were aware). He was always active, but never a big eater; we would give him his food in the morning, and he would sort of pick at it through out the day, but by end of day he would usually have finished it. He’s always had very good physicals, with no red flags for anything, and he weighs 15lbs, which the vet said was perfect.

This march 2018, he went in for his annual physical. The physical portion was good, she said his weight was good (still the same) and everything looked and felt good. We did the blood panel, as we do every year, just to make sure everything is as it should be, but his amylase and lipase enzymes were very high. The vet said he had Pancreatitis, and asked about whether we’d noticed any vomiting, diarrhea, or him refusing to eat. I did tell her that over the last year (or maybe less) he would have intermittent vomiting, like maybe 1ce every few weeks, a very small amount of bile (like a tbsp.), usually at night when he was in his crate. He was still eating as he normally did, still acting the same…the infrequency of the vomiting, and being such a small amount never raised a red flag for me that something was wrong.

She suggested we start by putting him on the Hills low fat prescription I/d diet and re-test his enzyme level in 6 weeks. We did this, and his enzyme level did come down, but was still high at 1800. What we don’t know, was how high exactly it was in the first place, since their cut off level is 2000…it may have been just over 2000, or 4000…we just don’t know. The vet suggested we keep him on this diet, since it *is* doing something, and also give him SAMe (Denosyl 225mg) to act as an anti-inflammatory which will hopefully alleviate any of that if that is what is happening internally, as well as to increase his appetite.

He has been on Denosyl for about 11 days, and I have noticed it has not improved his appetite whatsoever. He does seem to get a burst of energy mid-day/evening, and wants to play a lot with his toys, but other than that, I am not seeing any difference in him.

I guess my issue is, I am not 100% convinced he has Pancreatitis at all…he has no swelling/distention in his abdomen, he is not exhibiting any clinical signs of pain, he’s active, and eating…just eating small amounts throughout the day vs eating it all in 1 sitting. his stools are normal, no diarrhea. He’s also not thrown up AT ALL on the Hill’s diet…

Does anyone know, that has dealt with elevated enzyme levels in their dogs, how long does it typically take for those levels to go back into normal range?

We don’t want to put him through any sort of a scan, as those have their own risks, and where there is no physical indications (swelling or pain in the abdomen), and all other blood work was normal – and we don’t want to medicate him if he truly doesn’t need it, though I would be willing to try Pepcid AC 5mg/day to see if there is any improvement in his eating.

Does anyone have any similar experiences? What worked best for your Dog? Was it Pancreatitis, or just Acid Reflux (GERD)??

[a c]

My 11 years old miniature schnauzer had pancreatitis last year. My vet put her on Science Diet ID wet food for 2 weeks and told me to put her on Purina One Smartblend Healthy Weight formula.

I have switched her to Annamaet GF Lean fat for the past year with pretty good result. I am actually trying Wellness Core GF reduced fat now for the rotation and easyier access. I also add a little fresh vegetables, meat or sardine, digestive enzyme, and water to the kibbles. I keep a few cans of Science Diet ID cans on hand. If it looks like she is not eating or drinking, that’s my to-go food.

If you are looking for 13-15% protein and fat under 11%, that means 74-76% of carbs?

[Susan]

Hi Stacie,
are you on facebook? join the “Canine Pancreatitis Support Group” post a post asking what people are feeding their dogs that isnt a vet diet?
Try & avoid some of the weight loss/management dry kibbles as they might be lower in fat but some are very high in fiber, over 5%, high fiber diets aren’t really good for dogs with Pancreatitis it’s more work on the pancreas & stomach…
I dont know if you will find a pet shop food that is low in Protein 13-15% & low in fat aswell???….

Have a look at “Artemis Fresh Mix” Weight Mangement/Senior formula, the fat is 6%, the Protein is 20% & the fiber is low at 3%…it’s always sold out in Australia, I know Artemis is American made… Good – Luck

[Stacie S]

I’m in a predicament!

Salem, my 13 year old Shiba Inu, had an attack of pancreatitis about a month ago. He apparently had the start of renal insufficiency prior to the pancreatitis attack.
He now has to be put on a special diet with protein 13-15% and fat under 11%. There are prescription diets but I can’t afford them.
Does anyone have any ideas?

[Lisa D]

Hi I know this is a long time ago, but I have a dog that has potential IBD, pancreatitis, and acid reflux, not sure what she is allergic to, we are in the trial and error time of trying to figure everything out, I would love Susans recipes of homecooked meals, can someone provide those, I am unable to see her email or blog site?

thanks
Lisa
[email protected]

[a c]

Patricia,

I believed Stella and Chewy’s freeze dried has very high fat(over 30% in dry matter) content. I was feeding my 10 years old Stella and Chewy’s and Primal freeze dried last year and she end up with pancreatitis.

Do a search on low fat dog food on dogfoodadvisor.com. They have many 5* and 4.5* low fat kibbles and wet food that you many want to try.

[a c]

Hey,

Can you please recommend any meat base, low fat, and non grain free kibbles with at least 4* for senior dogs with pancreatitis history? I am looking for something with less peas, chickpeas, lentils…

They are currently on a plant base, grain free, and 5* kibbles as a base. I want to rotate them with another brand.

Thank you in advance!

[a c]

Kim,

I have two 11 years old miniature schnauzers. While they are not overweight, one did have one episode of pancreatitis last year. I has switched them both to a low fat kibbles. Both miniature schnauzer and yorkie are prone to pancreatitis.

I am using Annemaet grain free lean low fat kibbles as the base at the moment and add warm water, some fresh vegetables, some fresh meat from our meal/can sardines in spring water/freshpet as topper. Annemaet is a 5* food according to DFA.

I am also looking for another kibbles to rotate.