[“Blue”]

Hi Corey,
I can relate to your calorie content puzzlement, since I too had the same puzzlement when I started reading this website last summer. I was hoping the calorie content would be included when the Editor’s Choice ratings came online, but alas, it’s not. (Sorry if I seem disappointed, I am.)

The subject of this thread is about Quantity so I am not addressing the stomach issues, especially since I’ve been most curious about this for some time and get other opinions/thoughts on the subject.

How do you reconcile which food to buy? Find a food(s) Dr. Mike gives 3-5 stars, that you are comfortable buying, feed your dog and watch his weight. Adjust servings accordingly. It does require you use a measuring cup, not a plain scoop or empty soup can as I have done at times.

Food for thought: (pun intended)
Dog food is sold by the pound and fed by the cup. It’s hard to compare those 2 factors. And to complicate it further, the dog food mfg’rs don’t seem to agree on how much to feed, calorie wise.

DFA Calorie Calculator says my dog needs 1230 calories per day. On their websites, Fromm Adult Gold claims 408 calories/cup. Orijen Adult claims 478, so that extrapolates to Fromm recommending 1428 cals./day and Orijen recommending 1003 for my 55 lb. dog. That’s a huge difference between the two, with Fromm over ~20% and Orijen under ~20% of the DFA calculator.

To show the recommended feeding amounts another way,
Food—-Mfgr Cups—DFA Calc Cups
Fromm—3.5———-3.0
Orijen—-2.1———-2.5

You just have to go with the quantity that keeps appropriate weight on your dog. I like this chart for reference. http://media.marketwire.com/attachments/200802/MOD-402887_weight-chart1.jpg

If you want to compare prices of dog food, I think it’s better to compare cups fed per dollar rather than dollar per pound of the bag. Those looking to maximize economy might be more interested in a high calorie/low cost 3-star kibble over a lower calorie 5-star kibble, but it really isn’t that simple as you can see. (And I haven’t even mentioned protein, carbs, vitamins, etc.!) FWIW, I actually measured Fromm Adult Gold to be 4 cups per pound and Orijen Adult to be 3.2 cups per pound. Both claim 10% max moisture so Orijen would seem to be a much more dense food based on recommended serving size, but you may not be getting enough calories.

Sorry if this post rambled and got scattered, a million possibilities exist to feed you dog and I haven’t figured it out yet either, although “Blue” seems to be enjoying and doing well with the mix of 3-5 star rated foods I buy, per Dr. Mike’s rating system. 🙂

[USA]

Hi Mary C

The highest quality dog food would be one you made yourself using lean pasture raised meats and wild caught fish, fresh organic vegetables and a few supplements.

In commercial dog foods I would rate them as follows:
Raw
Dehydrated
Canned
Kibble

One of the issues with a very low carbohydrate food for dogs is the fat content. Most commercial foods with low carbs are high in fat, some are really high. If your dog doesn’t have any other health issues he or she might do fine with a high fat, high protein, low carb diet. If your dog has other issues such as pacreatitis a high fat diet might not work as well.

I strongly believe that with a diabetic dog the number one priority is to limit carbs as much as you can. After all, diabetes is a failure of the bodies ability to regulate and metabolize ALL carbohydrates and injected insulin cannot currently duplicate the bodies own production of insulin. Diabetes CAN be controlled with the proper diet, the proper insulin regimen and home testing of blood glucose.

So please tell me a little bit about your dog:
How old
Current food and amounts fed and at what times in relation to insulin injections
Current insulin regimen, what type, how often
Current blood sugar readings
Overall health and any issues besides diabetes

Once you develop a routine that works for you and your pup things get easier! Give your pup a hug for me!!!

[Mary C]

What is the best dog food on the market for dogs suffering from diabetes? (Quality human grade organic protein and low carbohydrates.)

[RescueDaneMom]

When our rottie had cancer I used The Honest Kitchen Embark, Thrive, and Preference. I also used Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance. Both foods are dehydrated. We also used low carb kibbles such has Horizon Legacy, Pulsar, Orijen, and Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural. I would also make homecooked food too for variety. He had lymphoma and battled it with chemo for 10 months.

[weezerweeks]

My yorkie use to get crystals all the time. I switched him to canned food that was low in carbs and even added extra water to it. We have not had any since. Lots of water is important. I would definitely switch to canned food.

[Susan]

With the Elimination diet you must only give the 1 food for at least 2 weeks, my vet said 1 month, but I saw Patches reaction within 2-3 days after giving sweet potatoes, you cannot give any ather foods, nothing else, no treats, no oils nothing, then if ur dog isnt scratching or has diarrhea then you add another food like rice or I added pumkin, its very hard & takes time, Ive stopped at the Chicken, pumkin, boiled egg, bannana, But if u can afford the Holistic Select this is an excellent kibble the Anchovy, Sardine & Salmon, meal for scratching & itchy skin, its the best seller at our Pet Barn with the itchy dogs, I cant use that flavour as my boy has Pancreatitis so Ive got Patch on the Senior, Holistic Select cause the fat is low 10%..then when his itch clears up, Holistic Select has Duck Meal, Lamb & Rice meal & Chicken & rice they also have a grainfree turkey & lentils. you can rotate feeds so when 1 bag has finished buy him a new flavour & see how he goes the Duck kibble is just duck as the protein so is the lamb meal so if ur dog does have any food allergies but its rare for dogs to have food allergis only 5% of dogs, but stay away from the high carbs potatoe, sweet potato, rice is OK its a low Gi carb its a good carb.. it gets complacated, so Ive been just sticking with the Holistic Select & Patches Vet Pescription kibble as he has a few health problems & he’s been doing good with his skin, stomach & bowels, I dont want to push it…Good-Luck hope Chance is looking beautiful & shinning in a month, you watch his fur after being on a good premium food..he’ll shine…

[losul]

Julie, I think the total weight of the diet you are giving ( about 9, 10 ounces or so) should be pretty much in line for reducing weight for a dog that should weigh about 24 lbs., barring some sort of metabolism issue and I don’t think the problem is from a few low-carb veggies. I would suspect your dogs diet is disproportionally very high in fat (skin) and bone (bone marrow also has high fat content), especially the chicken wings, which are mostly skin and bone. I would feed more lean meats (skinless chicken breasts and/or thighs) with any other visible fat removed) and less bone. Some lean red meat instead of only chicken would also balance the fats better.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by losul.

[Susan]

Hi, what foods do you feed Chance, I put Patch on an elimination diet about 2 months ago cause of his itchy skin & red sore paws inbetween his toes & itchy ears… Patch has seasonal allergies around Summer & Autumn at his worst, when I started doing Patches elimination diet he was doing good then as soon as I added sweet potato with his boiled chicken breast 2 days later his ears started to itch & I had to use his Dermotic ear drops, excellent product clears his ears up straight away, so I stopped the sweet potato & he stop ripping at his ears.. Ive read you need to choose foods with low Gi carbs for itchy skin problems helps to keep the sugar levels constant…stay away from kibbles with potatos, sweet potatos, peas found in a few grain free kibbles…Have you tried a good fish based kibble…Holistic Select has Anchovy Sardines & Salmon meal, this kibble helped my friend Staffy, he had terrible red itchy skin when he was 9months old, she tried vet pescription diet kibble, then she tried the Wellness complete health the whitefish with sweet potato recipe & it didnt help, then she tried the Holistic Select Anchovy,Sardines & Salmon meal & now Bronson has beautiful itch free skin, she also mixes a couple of tin sardines in spring water with his kibble..but not all dogs are the same, you can only try & see if you see any change… look for a low carb diet with fish as the protein & see if things improve…

[Gina R]

Hi! I am not new to Dog Food Advisor but am a new member. I have a JRT mix who is 9. He had what was to be a wart on the inside of his left ear (for about a year)- my vet tried to freeze it off but all it did was bleed for about four hours. He ran a few tests and it was found that it was a mast cell tumor. It eventually fell off (looks great), I took him to the best oncologist who gave me a couple options. Chemo or take the ear off. Also, I was luck as the cancer had not spread to any parts of his body. I chose chemo – which the first treatment almost wiped him out! The oncologist said he’s in the 2% of dogs who have such a bad reaction. Well, after 3 weeks he is back to eating, running, playing and telling me off when I get home late as he is hungry! I’ve opted to not finish the chemo or have the ear removed as it would go beyond the ear. I will be taking my angle to a holistic vet soon. I have read a lot and it seems that a diet of decent protein, good fat and low carbs is the way to go – not to mention no red meat. I have him and my other 3 dogs on Weruva, Ziwipeak, Wysong. I mix it up and they all do fine. Has anyone out there had/have an angel who has cancer or someone out there who is knowledgeable and can recommend a good food. I use to home cook for them but it got to be too much as I work a lot.

Thank you all and many blessings!

[Lisa D]

I cook my Yorkie’s food everyday. For breakfast it is a combo of scrambled egg with low carb vegies like green beans, cauliflower, bean sprouts, kale, celery……whatever is in the frig. For dinner it is some sort of fish…canned salmon, sometimes fresh salmon, tilipia and again with a low carb vegie medley. I used to feed him carrots, sweet potatoes but now I am buying into the NO SUGAR. I bathe him in the Malapet shampoo which does not require a doctors prescription. I spray him with white vinegar mixed with water, rinse him in it and I try to stay away from ACV because I think it might have a sugar property. Next I am researching for his immune system. Best of luck to you!

[Christina E]

I have a miniature schnauzer who was just diagnosed with bladder stones. The vet of course prescribed her to change her diet and eat Royal Canin s/o to try to dissolve the stones. I read the ingredients. Meat isn’t even listed first and it has corn in it. I’ve been researching online and it appears the best diet is a moisture rich food, so more likely canned food, grain free, low carb and potato (starch) free. I have been feeding her Nature’s Variety grain free and recently switched to Merrick b/c I didn’t like that Nature’s Variety adds tapioca, but Merrick uses sweet potatoes. Can anyone recommend a good canned food to help prevent the recurrence of struvite stones?

[USA]

I agree with Betsy. For a dog with cancer who is not already eating a raw diet and doing well on it I would not want to add the additional bacterial load that comes with raw food. A lot of healthy dogs do very well on a raw diet and this is something worth trying in dogs who are not fighting cancer or other serious illnesses.

Kibble is highly processed and the way it is made and the ingredients that it uses are the furthest from a NATURAL diet for a canine that you can feed your dog. The fact that kibble is a dry food adds additional stress to a dog’s kidneys and liver.

If a homemade lightly cooked diet is not an option a high quality low carb canned food would be much more beneficial for all dogs than kibble but especially for a dog dealing with a serious illness.

[LexiDog]

If you are not into making a homemade food (I am not at this moment but may later consider it), you can try commerical raw dog food. Stella & Chewys and Primal are wonderful. Those are what I feed my dog.

Kibble – Dogswell Live Free has a low glycemic impact becuase they use peas and chickpeas for their starch. Compared to Science Diets W/D (Glucose Management formula) which has 51% carbs, Live Free looks pretty good. Their canned food is supposed to be even lower in carbs.

I just emailed them to find out their carb & ash content. Below is what they replied with:
Carbs
LIVE FREE Puppy Chicken 21%
LIVE FREE Adult Chicken 23%
LIVE FREE Senior Chicken 24%
LIVE FREE Adult Lamb 21%
LIVE FREE Adult Salmon 22%
LIVE FREE Adult Turkey 22%

Ash
LiveFree Puppy Chicken 7.8%
LiveFree Adult Chicken 7.7%
LiveFree Senior Chicken 8.8%
LiveFree Adult Lamb 8.7%
LiveFree Adult Salmon 8.7%
LiveFree Adult Turkey 9.7%

Hope this helps!

[USA]

Hi Tina L,

Demodectic Mange is definitely related to the immune system. It is believed that all dogs have the mites but they are kept in check by a healthy immune system. Your dog may have a late blooming immune system or there may be other things going on.

I would recommend you feed him the best food you can. Take a look at the 5 star foods on the review part of this website. Try to stay below 25% carbs which is still a lot but it is hard to find dry foods with less carbs. Canned foods can be found with less carbs and if you are able to feed a large dog only canned food then that would be a good option. If you want to look a little deeper into the quality of the foods you might want to join the Editors Choice section here. There is a yearly fee but it goes more in depth into the dog food companies on the list. The better his diet, they better he will do with everything life throws at him.

The pills for the itching might have been a prednisone type drug which stops itching by SUPPRESSING the immune system! This is counter productive to BUILDING up the immune system to control the mites that cause Demodectic Mange!

I agree with you on limiting vaccines, flea control and any other toxic meds although at some point if his mange becomes wide spread and he is in constant distress you might have to seek the least toxic alternative. I would suggest you supplement his diet with digestive enzymes to make sure he is absorbing all the nutrients in his food, probiotics to help strengthen his immune system, omega 3’s to help with inflammation and turmeric as an antioxidant.

Good Luck with your pup!!!

[USA]

Hi Leslie

Would you consider making your Jack a homemade diet? If he has no food allergies or intolerances a homemade diet using chicken, beef, turkey, fish, pork and other meats would be beneficial for your pup. You would use lean meats, 10% fat or less. Lightly cook the meats. Add about 20% non-starchy pureed veggies and fruits. Occasionally add some organs and sardines.

Supplement with Omega 3 oils, digestive enzymes, probiotics and a vitamin mineral mix like Steve Brown’s See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mixes and you have the basics of an economical, highly nutritious, species appropriate low carb diet that would help your precious pup do the best he can!! Turmeric is an excellent supplement for dogs with cancer. Slight adjustments to the diet with fiber would depend on the needs of your dog.

This is not that hard to learn and there are plenty of people here to help you along the way! I wish you and your pup the BEST!!!

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Leslie,

Your welcome. On a dry matter basis, Embark is 38% carbs and Love is 37%. You could definitely achieve even lower carbs by using the Preference and adding meat at a 2:1 ratio (2 cups meat to 1 cup Preference). The ONP Max Meat has 26% carbs on a DM basis. You could certainly try it and see if he does any better on it.

I don’t want to hijack this thread to talk about a cancer diet (because there is SO much information on it). If you want we can start a new thread or you can email me at ccapobianco85(at)gmail(dot)com.

-Caroline

[Leslie R]

Caroline, thank you. I have been feeding Buster Embark & Love. Wasn’t sure if they were low enough in carbs. I add sardines or eggs, sometimes chicken. I only give him protein treats. I got an email from Only Natural Pets ( I think thats the name) for their air dried food. The dogfoodadvisor list has this food at 25 % carbs & HK embark higher..can’t remember the exact number. Do you think I should change? I also add salmon oil, tumeric and a probiotic. We’ve only had him 1 month & it’s killing me. I’ve known him for 6 years as he belonged to my friend who passed away..her husband didn’t want him. Any advice is truly appreciated. Thanks for your help.Leslie

[RescueDaneMom]

leslie, I’m on my lunch break so I don’t have much time to write as much as I want. My family’s rottweitler battled lymphoma for 10 months with chemo treatments. I fed him THK Embark and Preference. When using Preference, I only gave him cooked protein. No raw for compromised immune systems. I also fed some low carb kibbles (Horizon Legacy and Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural) as well as homecooked food. Please let me know if you need more info. I’d be glad to share our experience if it can help someone else.
-Caroline

[Leslie R]

Can anyone recommend a food that is significantly lower in carbs? My recently adopted Jack Russell mix was diagnosed with prostate cancer & I want to do what I can for him. Thanks for your help.

[Leslie R]

What’s your opinion on kibble vs dehydrated food? And does anyone know of a very low carb food for a cancer diet. . Other than rx diet, of course.

[theBCnut]

If it’s kibble, it’s “dead” protein, so you have to make up your mind why you are feeding protein from kibble at all. For me, keeping it low carb is more important, so I prefer meals and I add fresh “live” meats.

[LexiDog]

W/D is a low fat glucose management dog food by SD that is supposed to be for diabetic dogs. The ingredients are: Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Lactic Acid, Caramel color, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Flaxseed, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C) , Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, L-Carnitine, Iodized Salt, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, L-Threonine, Beta-Carotene, Phosphoric Acid, Natural Flavors.

[theBCnut]

I’ve never heard of going carb free for demodex, but demodex is an immune issue, so I guess I can see it. Most foods that are high in antioxidants are not carb free, even whole foods. Good luck. I hope you can find what you are looking for, but I haven’t heard of one single nutritionally complete food that was carb free, even among raw foods, and they have the lowest carbs.

[Susan]

There’s the low Gylcemic diets that they still can have, that have rice, oats.. Rice & oats are good carbohyrates…..I started looking into all this & it does ur head in lol… Google “low gylcemic diets for dogs” when I googled it, Acana, Merrick, Nutriscia & Orijen came up..I think Diabetic foods are low gylcemic..

[Tina]

My dog has democratic mange and all the articles that I’be looked up have said no or low carbohydrates.

[Susan]

My boy was just diagnosed 2 months ago, I boil chicken breast, boil butternut pumkin & a boiled egg..I shread the chicken breast & mash it all together, I get enough chicken breast & pumkin for 1 fortnight & cook it all then freeze little meals..I just give the cook meal for breakfast & his kibble at night, Ive read that kibble isnt good for dogs with Pancreatitis, ur better off with a real low fat wet food, its easier to digest, I cook cause Im in Australia & the wet food fat % isnt low enough in fat, the lowest I can get is 3% fat, thats the Wellness senior…it needs to be around 1% fat, U’ll have to learn how to convert wet fat % into dry matter its easy, My vet also said when on a kibble fat% has to be under 10% fat, he said, he likes it to be 8% fat, alot of senior foods are low in fat but. You say she has a slight meat allergy that makes her itch, you sure its not carbohydrates, Carbohyrates make dogs itch, my boy cant have potatos or sweet potatos, he goes nuts scratching & his ears start to itch as well….Im sure other people on here will have some really good low fat foods..

[DogLuv]

Is there anything on the list that is also low carb?

[aquariangt]

My understanding is that high protein has very little to do with weight gain in dogs-though some of the others that are more knowledgeable may be able to expand on that more. You’re really looking for lower fat when it comes to that, yes? Dogs gain energy off protein, better than they do off carbs, so a diabetic dog for example would want a high protein, low fat, low carb diet

[Susan]

Hi, I’d called it a “sensitive tummy” make sure the fat % is low, I found when my boy had his gurling bowel (Colitis) the vet said lower his fat & said he had Colitis..Patch was getting me up around 4-5am about every 10 days wanting to go outside & eat grass, when I first got him over 1 year ago, I’d hear his bowels rumbling from the next room, since Ive cut out the chicken necks & kept him on his Vet prescription diet ‘Eukanuba Intestianal’ that has only 10% crude fat, we haven’t had any rumbling & gurling since December, Thank-God..Ive also found when his tummy bowel was rumbling, Id make him toast eat 2 pieces of dry toast with fish paste lightly spread no butter, you could use cottage cheese something that doesnt have fat in it, the toast seemed to stop his rumbling & we could go back to bed…but watch the Crude Fat % in his kibble, no treats or things that have too much fat, also I keep his food the same & if I give him anything new I do it of a morning not of a night. I give him his Eukanuba Intestinal for his dinner so I wont get woken up with his little gurgle motor running….lol oh with the scratching stay away from kibbles & foods that are high carbohydrate, no potatoes, sweet potatos etc…maybe ur better of doing an elimination diet, like Im doing at the moment..also my boy is on a good probiotic for his stomach I feel this has also helped him…

[weezerweeks]

I have had my yorkie on canned foods for several months. He does great on the wellness stews but the merrick gives him gas. Last night I started him on the Go chicken,turkey and trout stew and he was up half the night with gas. I’ve been trying to give him abone average protein,near average fat and below average carbs. I think I’ m going to try near average protein,fat and carbs. Does anyone have any suggestions. He also did okay on the weruva Marbella.I boiled chicken breast and cooked rice with carrots this morning.he’s been good so far.any canned foods beside the wellness stews that would work. I hate to use the same food.

[Susan]

I rescued my boy just over 1 year ago & he too has bowel, tummy & skin problems..For some reason corn must bind them more, Patch is on vet prescrition Eukanuba Intestinal since last August when vets said he has IBD, it has corn also, I found the Eukanuba heaps better then Hills & Royal Canin … His skin stopped being itchy, no more diarrhea, the Hills & Royal Canin never helped him…This Janurary I’ve been slowing adding different foods & different kibbles but so slowly but Ive been cooking the chicken breast boiling it cause of the fat.. also I found that the Nutro natural choice & Holistic Select have been good kibbles with his diarrhea…he also gulps, so Im too scared to give any bones, I dont want to push my luck as he’s pretty stable at the moment, I also have read that raw & kibble is no good but if you give at different times it should be OK, I give cooked for breakfast then do kibble for lunch & dinner, that way he’s getting all his vitamins from his kibbles .. Last year my vet said NO to raw especially when I was giving chicken necks, he said to me, they’re are just bones & fat would you eat bones & fat, I said no….so now I cook chicken breast, pumkin & freeze cause 2 months ago I found out that Patch has Pancreatitis poor thing, last year vets were trying this kibble trying that kibble & all along he needed a low fat kibble we thought it was the fiber being to high but it was the fat % that was too high…
I think for some reason they seem more special when they have been rescued, they have had it tough & are survivors…You’ll work it all out but it does become confusing…. just stay away from the carbohydrates with his skin problems, no potatos or sweet potatos in kibbles..

[Naturella]

Amy, here is an excerpt from Dr. Tim’s Website:
“Why Dr. Tim’s?

Our chicken meal is antibiotic free with no added hormones.
Dogs and cats flourish on meat based proteins; our proteins are 87% animal derived.
Our omega 3 fatty acids are mainly of ocean fish origin; ocean-derived omega 3 fatty acids are more effective with dogs and cats than plant-derived omega 3 fatty acids.
Dr. Tim’s protein, fat and carbohydrate ingredients are of North American origin – always.
Our starch digestibility is 95%.
Low ash proteins assure the highest grade of protein is used to benefit your pet.
Externally applied probiotics and prebiotics in the diet help your pet’s gastro-intestinal tract healthy – the start of your pet’s immune system.
Kinesis All Life Stages and Pursuit Active Dog formulas are appropriate for large breed puppies and large breed adult dogs.
To ensure safety, each batch is tested for salmonella and not released until a confirmed, negative result.”

If you visit the website, you can learn about all individual ingredients as well, and see how they apply to the dog’s nutritional needs. Also, he uses a lot of meat meals, but they are much richer in protein than is fresh meat alone. And not everything is dried – the chicken liver and porcine plasma are not dried, and a lot of the vegetables aren’t either. Plus what HoundDogMom said about their customer service.

I have fed Dr. Tim’s Kinesis grain Free in my rotation and I am pretty happy with it. I would feed it again, or even the Momentum or Pursuit formulas as they are meat-heavy regardless that they have grains, and luckily for me, I don’t think my little guy is allergic to grains, as his diet has always been about 75-80% or more grain-free, mixed with a grain-inclusive kibble and he has done fine.

So it really is up to you. It is a good, affordable 5-star kibble in my opinion.

[Akari_32]

I don’t really know what I’m looking for exactly. Just as low carbs as possible plus high protein and no/extremely low fish. I know the higher the protein, the less carbs it’ll have (basically).

I did see the Merrick Bistro whatever. Looks alright. It’s expensive, though, so it’s on the maybe list :p

[Susan]

You’ll start to see a difference within 3 weeks with their skin but I believe you must also treat the outside with weekly baths with a real good oatmeal base shampoo + conditioner, I found that Malaseb medicated shampoo to be the best & I use Blackmores PAW (Pure Animal Wellbeing) Nutriderm Replenshing conditioner.. I lighty rinse off as you can leave the conditioner on to moisturise their skin .. as soon as I see Patch really scratching I bath him but since using Paw Nutriderm conditioner as well as the Malaseb shampoo Patch hasnt needed his weekly bath…
Oh Shasta I wanted to ask you do you have a good biscuit or treat recipe that’s low fat & no carbs, a limited ingredient biscuit, Im trying to put some weight on Patch as he has Pancreatitis, its hard to keep his weight steady, he’s only 16 kilos, he use to be 19-20kilos, I like my Staffys to look chunky like a little nugget, people say he looks good but I see his rib bones, he needs to gain 2-3 kilos & its so hard when he has to have a low fat diet & low carbs cause of his itch…Thank-You..

[Bobby dog]

Jakes mom:
Glad everything is okay, sulking is good! Jake is a chicken back eating machine!! 😉 Bobby didn’t want to go outside today for a walk because it is cold, rainy, and windy. He said he is much too delicate for this weather! lol

Akari:
I think you have a tall order to fill. I was just tooling around the Internet to check out GF, no fish, low carb dry cat food and I don’t think there are any; well there are a few. The few I found with the lowest carbs are California Nat’l, EVO, Solid Gold (forget which one), and some Vet formulas.

They aren’t the most budget friendly, but they might not break the bank either with a reduced feeding schedule.

What carb % are you looking for? You might have to change your criteria a little bit in regards to fish and carb %’s.

[Akari_32]

Bobby, if you wouldn’t mind, I’d love that list! It seems like every dry food I find that has high protein and low carbs has fish in it. Is it too much to ask for a good food with no fish?? D:

And thanks for the link! That does the same thing as this:

http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

Only you have to actually do the math, right?

I looked at the Wellness CORE foods again, and they all have fish, or seem too carby. I’m pretty limited to whatever company puts out coupons, but I’m open to ideas. Earthborn is like gold, here, so I’m good on that LOL I’ll look at Merick and around on websites and see what I find.

[Bobby dog]

I looked at the chicken & turkey Simply Nourish Source and EVO Turkey & Chicken Formula. Before I realized EVO lists carbs on their website I did my own calculations and came up with 10% carbs, they list max carbs of 12%; I wasn’t too far off. lol If I did my calculations right, Nourish has approximately 24% carbs. I believe your main concern is carbs and EVO wins for lower carbs. EVO has 10% more protein, 2% more fat, and 3% less fiber (good or bad depending on Kitty). EVO contains some fish, Herring is the 6th ingredient and Salmon meal is the 8th ingredient. EVO also contains a prebiotic (chicory root) and probiotics and Nourish just chicory root.
First five ingredients:
~ EVO – turkey, chicken, chicken meal, tapioca starch & chicken fat
50% protein, 22% fat, 2.5% fiber
~ Nourish – chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, dried potatoes & dried peas
40% protein, 18% fat, 5.5% fiber
I would say EVO is a better recipe, but Simply Nourish is nothing to sneeze at! Not sure, other than carbs, what you look for in dry cat food, but this is pretty much what I take into consideration for kibble. That’s my critique of the two! 😉

[Bobby dog]

Surburban Gal:
Thanks for sharing your cat food recs with us. All of us cat lovers appreciate it! 🙂

Sharon:
Please, no bragging about your proximity to Trader Joe’s!! lol

I agree with C4c, if diarrea and vomiting have been an on-going issue in the past and he is vomitting again for unknown reasons, I would take him to the Vet for a check-up & bloodwork. I just recently had both of my oldest cats in for bloodwork, fecal exams & urinalysis’. One is the hyperthyroid kitty the other has no issues, but it was time for his wellness visit. Both cats’ tests came back perfect so that was a big relief.

Only one of my cats will eat Halo and he leaves all the vegetables in the dish, too funny. None of them are too keen for Core canned foods; they prefer Wellness GF canned. They only go for EVO canned once in a while. It must be nice to be that picky and get away with it! 😉

Me and C4c are big fans of catinfo.org, that is our go to cat site!

No one should feel bad (I don’t) for feeding any brand of canned foods regardless of their financial status. As Dr. Pierson states on her website, she would recommend a canned food over feeding kibbles.

Unfortunately, cats tell us what they will eat. I know it is taking longer than I want to change my cats’ diet, but we have made great strides since September. The important part is to learn how to read labels so better choices can be made in regards to what our pets eat. Each grocery store brand/flavor I feed has a few undesirable ingredients, but are low in carbs to keep the UTI’s away, have a named meat as the 1st ingredient, most don’t have added colors, and all are void of grains, glutens, and starches. Who knows, I may always have to rotate in what I call “grocery store” canned foods, maybe not; time and my cats will tell! 😉

C4c:
I really don’t appreciate you bragging about your new TJ’s! lol I do have an Aldi’s near me but I know for a fact it is not anywhere near a TJ’s shopping experience. I read somewhere, and this may just be an Internet rumor, that when Aldi’s and TJ’s split apart in Germany and each later came to the U.S. that they made an agreement that each company will only build in certain states. If that is true, I may never have a TJ’s close by. 🙁 I guess I will have to I buy the popcorn when I eventually make it there!!

AKari:
I will have to check out those foods later tonight, but do you have to choose between them or is one of them going to be purchased soon? Both are pretty good from what I remember! Also, this may be a stupid question so please forgive me in adavance, are we talking dog or cat food?

[Bobby dog]

Sharon:
You never know, the new food might have upset his tummy. He is so lucky to be adopted by you at 10 years old!!!!

I agree the dyes and artificial flavorings are terrible in Purina canned cat foods. Fancy Feast Classic Turkey varieties & Kitten Whitefish, Pro Plan Finesse Chic & Liver & Friskies Poultry Platter don’t contain added color. Purina One and Sheba do, but I still include it in their rotation to keep them eating. I only have a few “grocery store” flavors to choose from once you limit it to low carbs, meat as the 1st ingredient, no starches, glutens, wheat, corn, or soy, and little to no fish. I wish they never got addicted to Purina, oh well. They have a much better diet now that I have more knowledge about pet food quality.

Trader Joe’s is on my list to try. The only TJ’s near me is about 20 miles away and right now I don’t travel in that direction. More than likely I will be this summer so I am going to try it out. If nothing else, I can mix it with better food to help with the budget if they aren’t too keen on it; and I can’t wait to shop there anyway!! I also want to try their dog food, Bench & Field I think is the name. 🙂

[arwyru24]

Akari32- I have heard really really good things about the Simply Nourish food in terms of quality for the money. The Core Indoor is definitely higher in carbs than the regular Core, I was trying to cut down on calories, I think the indoor has 390/cup vs over 500 for the regular Core. I have heard too, that fish can be addicting to cats, but I have never personally experienced that with my cats. (not to say there isn’t truth to it) Actually only one of the cats I have had will eat really fishy food, poultry has always been the preferred protein source for my cats. There are sooooo many cat foods from high end to low that contain nothing but fish, whereas the turkey/salmon(this has chicken and herring in it) and chicken/herring wellness aren’t really fish based foods but, contain fish, and I know salmon isn’t as much of a concern as a lot of other fish is. I also regularly feed fish free varieties, so I am not too worried about the fish part. I don’t feed beef one of my cats doesn’t tolerate it well. I am also not overly worried about fat content, as cats process animal fat pretty well, it isn’t high up there on my list of concerns. The friskies and fancy feast and ONE can be very addicting though in my experience. My cats LOVE friskies and fancy feast and ONE, I am sure they would be happy to eat nothing but them(and then throw up all over my apartment) all the added artificial flavors make them super palatable and then more natural food just doesn’t look so good. Also, the coloring is a real problem for me, because it gets barfed up and stains the carpet, in addition to the obvious health related concerns with it. I think the Friskies Special Diet Ocean fish doesn’t have coloring in it, and the Friskies Indoor Chicken didn’t look like it did either if I am remembering correctly, I think that was one of the better ones. Wheat gluten has a HUGE link to hyper thyroid in cats, as I am SURE you already are aware to avoid it.

Bobby dog- I soooooo hear you about getting sick of throwing away expensive food, sometimes it can be aggravating, and my cats too get bored. I (or should I say my cats) really like the Merrick Before Grain but they don’t make that anymore, and I haven’t tried the bistro ones. the cat shelter I used to volunteer at used to feed their diabetic cats fancy feast classic wet food only, as all of the fancy feast classics are grain free, but I just hate the dyes. And the thing with friskies is that there is so much added water, and the actual pate is smaller that I have found that 1 5.5oz can of a high quality pate like wellness feeds like at least 1.5 cans of friskies if not more. Have you guys ever tried Trader Joes canned cat food? If your cats can tolerate rice and you dont mind fish inclusive (I cant remember if the turkey and giblets one has fish in it too, but the chicken turkey and rice dies) it is a really great deal and worth it to include in your rotation. I can’t feed it because of the sensitive one, but I used to rotate it in, because its only 69 cents a 5.5oz can here. My cats definitely didn’t love it though. Cats are really funny and fickle though and you really have to feed what works. My cats did really like Chicken Soup For the Soul and it used to be in my rotation because it is very reasonably priced, even though I would really like to stay away from Diamond.
Crazy4cats- I do refrigerate, but I have to microwave it for 10-15 seconds to bring it up to room temp before I serve it, and also, if its been in the fridge for more than 24 hours they don’t eat it. If it is cool and dry in my apartment and its only a few hours between feedings then sometimes I just use a plastic can cover and leave it out on my counter so that it is a non issue.
My older, sensitive system cat Aaron all of the sudden has not been able to keep his food down today, I am not sure what is going on. The other one isn’t sick in the least, no sign of diahrrea or even gas, they both have appetities, and I am using cans from the same cases I have been feeding from since the beginning of the month, so I don’t think its the food. This guy can be really immuno-suppressed, he has pretty severe stomatitis and as soon as I can get the money together I am going to have to get a full mouth extraction for him but that is sooo pricey. I adopted him at 10 years old, and he came to me with this problem, which the shelter vet/medical team didn’t catch (no one did until I took him to my vet). So I dont know whats going on but I am going to have to bring him into the vet if this continues tomorrow.

So great to hear from all of you, and very nice to chat! What a friendly, welcoming community! Its a real pleasure. 🙂

[Bobby dog]

Hi Sharon:
That is so funny your cats did not like the Wellness indoor, mine didn’t either! That has been the only dry food they wouldn’t eat since I changed how I fed them back in September. I gave it a try because it didn’t have fish meal and indoor formulas typically have a little more fiber which my kitties needed at the time, oh well. For dry I feed Wellness GF Turkey & Duck, Merrick GF chicken, and Innova Nature’s Table GF. I probably will not feed Innova after Mars completes the buyout. So I am going to try another dry cat food soon to add to their rotation.

I use Wellness canned also, but I have to continually rotate because they get bored with food. I use Friskees poultry platter, Wellness, Merrick, Evo, 4Health, Blue, Tiki Cat, Against the Grain, and Soulistic regularily. I just added a few flavors of Pro Plan, One, Fancy Feast and Sheba. I got tired of them snubbing their noses at expensive cat food so I am giving in to some grocery store foods that don’t have fish (or contain a little), wheat, corn, or soy and are low in carbs. Innova sent me some coupons for canned food and my cats liked it so I will add that to my rotation as well.

Jump over to the coupon thread Akari started for coupons and sales info! It’s under the “off topic forums.”

Akari:
Let us know how Kitty does on the yeast! 🙂

[Akari_32]

We love to hear about what others do well with! I’ve heard the biggest problem with most of the expensive brands is that they are high in fat, which is why I don’t have much if a beef with the three flavors of Friskies I picked out.

My guy doesn’t seem to like the Wellness Grain Free (purple cans) very much, but he eats them anyways lol It’s a good thing he likes to eat! I personally try and stay away from fish because it’s said to be addictive and can also cause hyperthyroidism in cats. He gets it maybe once a week because some of the Wellness has it in it. For how good of a deal I got on those, I figured it wouldn’t hurt if I spaced it out with other flavors and brands.

I managed to get Simply Nourish Source dry food for $5 for the 3 pound bag, and I mix it straight into his canned. He gets just a little more than a 1/3 cup Source, and then half the recommended feeding of whatever canned I’m giving him. For canned I have the grain free Wellness, Friskies Special Diet (Beef, and Chicken and something….), and Sheba. I also have a few stray cans of etc here and there that I snagged a good deal on. I’m pretty opportunist on what I buy, provided it’s low carb (I like to stay under 2%, but less than 5-10% is fine), and low-ish in fat. If I’m just buying a few cans I don’t really care, but if I’m stocking up, it has to meet my standards.

I do want to try the Wellness Core dry, but I’m concerned at how much carbs I has. Even the Source is a bit high for me, at an estimated 10%, but since it’s only half his diet, and I add water to his food at each feeding, and monitor his litter box habits, I’m ok with it lol My friend has fed it to her cat, and she did great on it. Then again, that cat pushes their 60 pound pit bull out of the way for water, and I can’t hardly even get mine to consider his fancy $30 fountain. I also want to try dry EVO again, but I guess it’s high in fat? Idk lol

Canned really does break the bank! $5 in just canned (with or with coupons, depending on what you can find on sale to match) can only last me a few days to a week! I have to feed all my animals (god, that’s a long list LOL) on $10 a week, and I don’t feed anything I’m not fully comfortable with. Thankfully I’m always on top of sales and coupons, and can usually stock on months worth of dog and cat food for my monthly $40. I did allow my self to slip up and buy a 40lb bag of NutriSource Super Performance for $40. Only because I had been doing so good on other food deals and had been wanting to try it forever lol

[Suburban Gal]

As for the ingredients of Greenies being bad for dogs, just took at the ingredients for their competitors:

Nutri Dent dental chews:
Wheat Starch, Glycerin, Powdered Cellulose, Lecithin, Natural Flavor, Chlorophyll, Parsley & Soy Flour. Vitamins: Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B-6, Folic Acid, Vitamin A. Vitamin E, Biotin, Choline, Inositol & PABA. Minerals: Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Copper Oxide, Manganese Oxide & Sodium Molybdate. Omega Fatty Acids: Omega-3 Fatty Acid & Omega-6 Fatty Acid.

Milk Bone brushing chews:
Rice, Modified Food Starch, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Water, Propylene Glycol, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Bone Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Gelatin, Animal Digest, Phosphoric Acid, Potassium Sorbate (Used As A Preservative), Smoke Flavor, Titanium Dioxide (Color), Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Yellow 6, Yellow 5, BHA (Used As A Preservative).

If you look closely enough, some of the same ingredients in Greenies are ALSO used in that of their competitor’s dental chews.

I took the liberty of checking the ingredients of Zuke’s Z-Bones. While the ingredients looked a lot better than the ingredients in Greenies, Nutri Dent and the like, I still think something like Zinc Propionate can’t be very good. Heck, I don’t even know what that is! (Would someone care to enlighten me?)

To be quite honest, it’s better to give your dog something than nothing at all and, as expensive as dental chews are, at least someone is making a good effort even if it’s not as good as Zuke’s Z-Bones.

I can’t wait for Zuke’s Z-Bones to receive the VOHC® Seal of Acceptance. IMHO, that means a little more to me as a pet owner.

[Susan]

Since Ive had Patch on his 1 cup of boiled chicken breast & a bit of pumkin & half an egg for breakfast he’s lost more weight this last month, he also has his 2 cups of kibble later thru the day the kibble is only 10% fat & 22% protein & 1.75% fiber, If I add more kibble it just bloats him & he seems uncomfortable, so what other low fat low carbs foods can I give him to gain some weight he only weights 16kilo.. he was between 18-20kilo this time last year but he was on a high fat hypoallergenic kibble that made him very ill, Now Ive learnt he has Chronic Pancreatitis he has to be on a low fat diet…oh, he also has IBD so I cant give him any cheese..Ive been giving him some banana…he also doesnt have no treats, I just use his kibble as a treat..there has to be a food that would gain some weight thats low in fat..

[Susan]

I do it sort of the same way..I think you taught me Hound dog but I was so confused at first, then I understood….
I takeaway 100% – Moisture% say moisture on tin is 78% then I takeaway 100-78= 22 thats the dry matter =22% then look on can what’s the fat, say 5% I then get the calculater & devide, I put 5 that’s the fat on tin then devide by 22 then I press the % on the calculater & u’ll get 22.727272 so the fat is about 22%..even if u just put 5 devided by 22 I still get the 0.22.727272 there’s just a 0 in front does that make sense.. I cant find a tin food that’s low enough in fat only the vet prescription diets, so I boil chicken breast & I boil pumkin that way I know what he’s eating the only problem Im having my boy has lost weight & I dont know what to feed him that doesnt have much fat & doesnt have much carbs as he gets itchy, maybe I’ll add some rice, I added pasta but he started to itch….

[Stacy L]

I’m using the Royal Canin lowfat GI food – ridiculously low fat only 5%. There’s nothing on the commercial market that even comes close. I switched her to Wellness Core Weight Management to see if she could tolerate a little higher fat and also add in a bit more protein, six weeks later her triglycerides were up and her pancreatic enzyme levels had also gone back up. So, back to the drawing board.

I hate the idea of putting her on canned food because she’s a schnauzer and canned food makes a huge mess on her doggie beard, but I guess that may be a way I need to go.

Thanks all.

Oh – “paltry protein” means “small amounts of protein”. I didn’t like having so many carbs going through my girl in relation to protein.

[Susan]

You said that ur dogs itch none stop, you must start with an elimination diet, I started one about 1 month ago as my boy has Pancreatitis & enviornment allergies we dont know if he has food allergies that’s why I’d say the vet suggested an elimination diet, The vet said the first month just feed boil chicken but I knew my boy could eat boil chicken so I added cooked pumkin, then when I saw he wasnt scratching or rubbing his tummy on my beautiful white rug the next week I added sweet potato within 2 days Patch was rubbing on my carpet so I stopped the sweet potato & know he cant have sweet potato or a kibble with sweet potato…. then I added pasta another NO it made him itch then I read dogs with skin problems like yeast & bacteria shouldnt eat carbohydrates, potatos, sweet potatos etc, then I added half a boiled egg & he’s been good, Im thinking of adding broccoli next.. Im reading Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs by Lew Olson PhD she has help me understand alot of things & this group its a easy book to read & very easy recipes, she explains what foods aren’t good & what foods are good for certain illness, like Skin problems & what causes ur dog to itch, Pancreatitis Diabetes, Gastro problems, feeding senior dogs, getting a pup onto raw etc, she has cooked recipes & what supplements to add.. in the elimination diet you cannot give any treats nothing, just that one food for 2 weeks then 2 foods so on.. you must cook all vegetables so they are fully cooked, she even suggest to pulped vegetables as dogs digestive system weren’t meant to eat vegies, here’s one of her recipes for Skin allergies a Low Glycemic regular fats Diet..this is for a 50 pound dog to be divide into two or more smaller meals per day.
8 ounces 1 cup regular fat ground beef
2 ounces 1/4 cup beef liver or kidney
2 eggs scrambled or boiled
4 ounces 1/2 cup steamed or boiled broccoli
4 ounces 1/2 cup cooked yellow crookneck squash
4 ounces 1/2 cup whole milk yogurt
Serve meat cooked or raw combined with cooked vegetables eggs & yogurt if serving meat cooked wait until meat & eggs have cooled before stirring in the yogurt…..
What I do is I cook once a fornight & freeze everything except the egg then put in fridge the night before to thaw for next day…

[neezerfan]

I’ve had my rescue dog for about 5 weeks now. His vet exam was excellent, bloodwork, fecal, urinalysis, dental all good. Vet said he needs to gain weight. He was 12 lbs 5 weeks ago, should be 13-14. So I used the dog food calculator on this site and have been feeding him enough calories for a highly active 13 lb dog plus giving lots of treats. I weighed him yesterday, 11 lbs! I realize it’s a different scale so could be some discrepancy so I’m going to the vet this week to weigh him there, but I’m trying to get him to gain and he ends up losing? WTH? He is very active, he’s a jumper, pacer and runs a lot with my other dog. My current rotation is Farmina kibble (it’s a winner!), Darwin’s, NV Instinct frozen raw, Whole Earth Farms, Nature’s Logic and By Nature canned. I know Darwin’s can be a little on the lower calorie side so I’m making allowances for that. His poops are a much bigger volume than my other dog’s are. My poor guy is so skinny! His ribs are prominent.
My plan is to order Abady’s granular to add into his food, maybe make some satin balls when I get the time. But here’s my question: do you think he’s more likely to gain if I add in more carbs? What he’s getting now is high protein, do you think that’s just not working for him for the weight gain. If more carbs are the answer, I’d rather give him home prepared additions to his food.
TIA for any advice!

[Bobby dog]

Hello All:
Happy Easter to all who celebrate!! 🙂 Does anyone know who cans Chicken Soup, Natural Balance, or TOTW? You both (C4c & Jakes mom) mention you feed them and I have not tried those yet.

C4c:
Love the Easter photos, they are precious!
I think the Pro Plan and One are overpriced as well, but if you catch a sale or have coupons the prices are okay. Their ingredients are a little better than Friskies and my cats certainly eat it like it’s Friskies. Gives me a few more choices for their rotation.

There are several lines under Pro Plan, One, Fancy Feast, and Sheba. I chose the recipes below based on having a named meat as the first ingredient, ingredients, and low carbohydrate content; no recipes contain wheat, corn, soy, glutens, or starches. Of course Friskies Poultry Platter is listed! 🙂 I have fed everything listed except the Pro Plan Savor and Focus lines, and my cats loved it all. I listed the undesirable ingredients included in each brand or noted if a recipe did not include them. Most of the Purina lines contain fish; Sheba doesn’t unless it is in the name of the flavor. Here’s my “grocery store” list of cat food:
Pro Plan –
• Finesse – K3, artificial flavors, meat by-products
• Chic & Liver Entree Classic
• Savor – K3, artificial flavors, fish, meat by-products:
• Beef & Carrots Entrée Classic
• Chic & Spinach Entrée Classic
• Salmon & Wild Rice Entrée Classic
• Turkey & Veg Entrée Classic
• Focus – K3, artificial flavor, fish, meat by-products, added color:
• Chic & Beef Entrée Classic
• Kitten Chic & Liver Entrée Classic

One – K3, artificial flavor, fish, meat by-products, poultry by-products, added color, corn oil, sodium nitrate
• Classic Turkey (no fish)
• Classic Beef
• Classic Chic

Fancy Feast – K3, artificial flavors, meat-by products, poultry by-products, added color, and fish
• Turkey and Giblets Feast Classic (no added poultry by-products or color)
• Tender Liver & Chicken Feast Classic (no added color or fish)
• Kitten Tender Turkey Feast (no added poultry by-products or fish)
• Fish & Shrimp Feast Flaked (no added poultry/meat by-products or color and contains sodium nitrate)
• Kitten Tender Ocean Whitefish Feast (no poultry by-products)

Friskies – K3, meat-by products, poultry by-products, artificial flavors, and fish
• Poultry Platter

Sheba – K3, meat by-products, poultry by-products, added color, Sodium Tripolyphosphate
• Beef entrée
• Beef & Chicken entrée
• Chicken entrée
• Chicken & Liver entrée
• Cod & Shrimp entrée
• Salmon entrée
• Salmon & Shrimp entrée
• Turkey entrée

[USA]

Hi Guys and Gals

A few years ago when it became clear that there was a problem with the Chinese Jerky I started to make my own jerky treats. I use only free-range chicken for my chicken jerky and wild caught fish for my fish jerkies. My treats have only one ingredient, meat fish or poultry. I use fresh meats from local supermarkets like Whole Foods so all of my treats are human edible. I gently dehydrate the meats to make jerky. I vary the drying times so I can make a more chewy treat or a crunchy treat.

Since dogs are designed to eat a diet high in meat and low in carbs plus they absolutely love jerky treats I wish you guys would make your dog’s treats with more meat and less carbs. You don’t need to use flour or a lot of starches if you make jerky type treats. You can use whole meats, fruits and vegetables or you can grind up mixtures of meat and veggies or fruits and dehydrate them. You can make them in an oven at the lowest temperature or you can use a dehydrator. Veggies and fruits will add antioxidants and vitamins while meat will supply the needed protein and fat.

Even though I call them treats the jerky I make is designed for a carnivore like a dog and since dogs absolutely love meat based treats it is a win win situation!