Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition

Dog Food Advisor Forums Diet and Health Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition

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  • #19731 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi gsdmommy89 –

    I think the new formulation for Orijen Large Breed Puppy should be okay. For some reason Orijen’s website isn’t working for me right now but I believe the minimum and maximum put it at right around the 3.5 g./1,000 kcal. level (maybe slightly lower than 3.5 g. basing the calculation on the min and slightly more basing it on the max).

    The Earthborn Primitive Natural formula is too high in calcium but I believe Meadow Feast and Coastal Catch are okay if you’d be interested in either of those formulas. The calorie content for the Earthborn Primitive Naturals is 3,800 kcal. per kg. of food or approximately 445 kcal. per cup.

    The calcium levels in Nutrisca are too high: 1.7105% for the chicken formula, 2.2294% for the salmon formula and 2.1516% for the lamb formula.

    I really like Nature’s Variety Instinct and they do have two formulas with appropriate calcium levels – the Rabbit Meal formula and the Limited Ingredient Turkey Meal formula.

    All of the Merrick formulas are too high in calcium to the best of my knowledge. When I last emailed Merrick they had just reformulated their grain-free line and did not yet have the lab results back with the nutrient values but I was told the calcium levels were expected to be roughly the same as in the old formulas and all the values in the old formulas were around 2.0%.

    I think Orijen would be a great food to try, I think it’s one of the better dry foods available. The best recommendation I could make would be to find several quality foods that are high in animal-based protein and rotate through them. It’s also a good idea to mix in canned or fresh foods if possible – this will boost the protein levels and provide some less processed food for your pup. In my opinion it’s very important that dogs get variety and have some fresh foods incorporated into their meals occasionally. Once your pup is around 8 months old and through the rapid growth phase, I wouldn’t worry so much about calcium but when the pup is young and growing rapidly it’s important. So some of the foods you mentioned (Nutrisca, Earthborn Primitive Naturals, Merrick, etc.) would be fine to try later on but I’d wait until the pup is at least 8 months old.

    Good luck 🙂

    #19739 Report Abuse
    Saireah
    Member

    * Starbright:
    You are most welcome! I wish you the best of luck!
    And I’ve been trying to save money on treats and wanted something healthier for Quinn with her joints, so a few “healthy” suggestions are baby carrots, dehydrated fruit (we use our food dehydrator and make a bunch of apples and bananas when they’re getting a little soft for our taste or if we forget they were in the fridge drawer), and homemade treats (there’s some great peanut butter and pumpkin ones out there). Quinn loooooves apples (no seeds or core!) in any form and sometimes I sprinkle some cinnamon on them. They’re cheap and good for her. Try carrots for sure!
    Also: we subscribe to a few monthly dog subscription boxes that gives us all of our treats — mainly because it feels like Christmas when I open up the boxes. 😉

    #19745 Report Abuse
    starbright26
    Participant

    I love the idea of baby carrots and dehydrated fruit!! Good for everybody! We’ll definitely give that a try! Thanks again!!

    #19746 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    One of my go to favorites is:

    fill marrow bones with applesauce and freeze. they love them! I do a tray of 3 or 4 at a time and then always have them ready for a treat that’s both healthy and keeps ’em busy 🙂

    #19759 Report Abuse
    acs379
    Participant

    Hello!

    I just found this site today, and I’m really appreciative of all the helpful information posted on here (especially Hound Dog Mom!). I read a few of the articles you posted, including the one discussing nutritional risks to large-breed puppies. One thing I found in that article that I feel hasn’t been discussed in these forums–at least from what I can find–is the fat percentage. The article stated that the food chosen should have a fat percentage less than 15-16%. I was looking into the foods that are recommended frequently on this forum–especially Nature’s Variety Instinct and Orijen–and though they have great stats on calcium, calcium-phosphorous ratio, protein, and energy, their minimum fat percentages exceed the 15-16% recommended value. I would really appreciate any help/clarification!

    #19773 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi acs379 –

    This is a wonderful point to bring up! I’ll try to explain it as best I can.

    The two main nutritional risks to large breed puppies are excess calcium consumption (or an unbalanced calcium to phosphorus ratio) and excess energy consumption (too many calories leading to rapid weight gain).

    The reason most formulas targeted towards large breed puppies and recommended for large breed puppies tend to be lower in fat has to do with the excess energy consumption risk factor. Protein and carbohydrates both have approximately 4 kcal. per gram while fat has over twice this much at about 9 kcal. per gram. So as you can see, fat is much more calorically dense than protein or carbohydrates and, as a result, foods that are higher in fat tend to be more calorically-dense as well. It is easier for a puppy (or any dog) to consume too much energy (calories) when eating a more calorically-dense food and this would ultimately result in undesired weight gain and, as we know, undesired weight gain in large and giant breed puppies can contribute to the development of orthopedic disease. This is why when feeding a more calorically-dense, or as some would say “rich”, food it is necessary to strictly control portions.

    As you can see fat – per se – is not a risk factor for developmental orthopedic disease, excess calories are. It’s very possible to feed a puppy (or any dog) a food that is higher and fat and not have the dog gain unwanted pounds – this is done through portion control. So if, for example, a puppy is eating a food with 20% fat that has 500 kcal. per cup the puppy will obviously need less of this food (to compensate for the high caloric-density) than of a food with 12% fat and 350 kcal. per cup.

    All of my puppies have eaten higher fat foods. Gertie ate a combination of The Honest Kitchen and grain-free canned foods until she was 8 months old with fat levels in excess of 20%. Mabel ate a homemade raw diet from the time she came home at 8 weeks with fat levels in the 30% – 40% range. I keep track of the calories my dogs are consuming, so my pups are fed the amount of calories that keeps them in optimal body condition. This means that when eating fattier more calorie-dense meals they get a smaller portion than when they’re eating leaner less calorie-dense meals.

    In summary, it’s not the fat that contributes to developmental orthopedic disease it’s the excess calories that fat provides. As long as portion sizes are monitored and the pup isn’t allowed to gain weight too quickly fat levels won’t pose an issue.

    I hope that helps clear things up!

    #19790 Report Abuse
    acs379
    Participant

    Hound Dog Mom, thank you for being so thorough in your answer! It clears things up quite a bit; the article discussed briefly that the fat percentage should be at a lower level but did not go into specifics as for the health implications of excess fat. I just wanted to confirm that there was nothing about excess fat SPECIFICALLY that would cause health issues (i.e. like excess calcium). I’m thinking I can start with Nature’s Variety Instinct and Orijen, because they both have good nutritional stats, good ingredients from what I understand, and seem to be used with success by other owners who have posted. If you have any other suggestions for foods, please let me know! I was planning on supplementing with fresh food (i.e. hardboiled eggs, yogurt) and canned food (i.e. tripe) as well as digestive enzymes to help aid in the digestion of the dry food.

    I do have a few follow-up questions. Here’s my situation: I’m getting a German Shepherd puppy in a few weeks (yay!). It’s coming from a well-known breeder, who made some nutritional suggestions based on years of experience with multiple vets. They suggest, “Puppies from 8 weeks to 1 year should be fed Science Diet Maintenance, fresh meat, yogurt, and boiled eggs.” However, Science Diet Maintenance has extremely LOW ratings on this site, as well as negative reviews from other posters on this site. This really concerns me, and I’m curious as to why they would make that particular suggestion.

    In addition, they make suggestions for vitamins as well: 1,000 mg Vitamin C a day and a multi-vitamin and a B complex capsule once a day. In the research I did, the only supplements mentioned were calcium and Vitamin D. Do you see any issue with giving the suggested 3 vitamins?

    Thanks so much for your help! You’ve provided so much valuable information and have also had to guide further research for me.

    #19807 Report Abuse
    gsdmommy89
    Member

    Thank you HDM for all the info. Will definitely go with Orijen first. I will also definitely come back with more questions. You are so knowledgeable!!

    #19815 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    No problem gsdmommy, glad I was able to help. 🙂

    #19816 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi acs379 –

    Nope, there’s nothing specific about excess fat that will cause developmental issues. Many veterinarians and breeders just tend to recommend lower fat foods because they generally have a lower calorie count per cup and they feel that it will be less likely that the dog will consume too many calories. However, as long as portion sizes are controlled it doesn’t pose an issue. My experience with my hounds has actually been that I have difficulty keeping weight on them – they tend to be on the thin side if anything, so for me it’s been really important to use more calorie-dense foods.

    First off I would like to say that it is wonderful that your breeder is recommending the inclusion of fresh foods. Many breeders and veterinarians don’t recognize the importance of fresh foods. Fresh meat, plain yogurt and eggs are wonderful additions to dry kibble – they boost the protein levels and the species appropriateness. Adding eggs and boneless meat will also help to reduce the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the food as they’re high in phosphorus but low in calcium. Just be sure to keep the unbalanced extras to approximately 20% or less of the meal or you could skew the calcium to phosphorus ratio too much and potentially throw off the balance of the other nutrients in the food. Canned foods and dehydrated foods make great toppers too, if feeding a balanced canned or dehydrated food with appropriate calcium levels you can add as much as you want, if feeding a food with higher calcium levels or an unbalanced canned topper follow the 20% rule. Tripe makes an excellent topper – especially for large and giant breed puppies, the reason being that tripe has has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (1:1) but very low concentrations of both minerals (only about 0.3% if I recall correctly). So feeding tripe will dilute the overall calcium levels without the risk of throwing of the c:p ratio. When Gertie was a pup she ate THK and I generally fed her 4 C. THK + 1 can Tripett (canned green tripe) daily (and some fresh additions like eggs, plain yogurt and tinned sardines a few times a week). Mabel started right off on raw and ate raw green tripe as about 25% of her diet for the first 6 months to keep her calcium levels low. Another benefit to tripe (if you can get it raw) is that it’s loaded with probiotics and digestive enzymes.

    I generally recommend not supplementing with vitamins (unless per veterinarian recommendation) for those feeding a balanced commercial food, however vitamin c and vitamin b are water soluble vitamins so they are not harmful in excess, if you wanted to add them it shouldn’t cause any problems. The problems arise with certain minerals and fat soluble vitamins as these can be harmful when consumed in excess. Because balanced commercial foods already contain vitamins and minerals adding additional vitamins (fat soluble) and certain minerals could potentially result in toxicity. I would definitely not supplement with vitamin d or calcium – vitamin d is a fat soluble vitamin and adding calcium would likely throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and high levels of calcium are what need to be avoided for large and giant breed puppies.

    Now onto discussing the Science Diet Adult Maintenance recommendation. I see many breeders recommend putting large breed puppies directly onto an adult maintenance food and this is extremely poor advice (imo) and often based on faulty logic. The reason breeders typically recommend adult foods is because adult foods tend to be lower in fat and calories than puppy foods – from the previous discussion we know that this isn’t an issue as long as portions are controlled. Feeding a puppy a food designated for adult maintenance puts the puppy at risk of not getting enough fat, protein or certain vitamins and minerals. SD is extremely low in protein – to be honest I wouldn’t even feel comfortable feeding a food that low in protein to an adult dog, let alone a growing puppy. I don’t ever recommend feeding foods with less than 30% protein (for adults or puppies) and the SD only has 24.5% protein. Also, if you go to SD’s website and read the product description for the adult maintenance food you’ll notice they state “Not recommended for puppies, pregnant or lactating dogs” – this is because dogs in their growth phase or in the stressful phase of pregnancy or lactation need high levels of protein, higher levels of fat and higher levels of certain vitamins and minerals. I personally wouldn’t ever feed or recommend any Science Diet Products. I would recommend checking out some 4 or 5 star foods with appropriate calcium levels. It’s also better if you rotate foods, don’t stick with just one – dogs need variety. I’d say at a bare minimum have three go to brands (preferably made by different companies and with different protein sources) and rotate through them. Rotational feeding has benefits including fostering a diverse population of gut flora, mitigating the short comings of feeding any one single food (no food is perfect) and providing alternatives in the event of a recall or formula change.

    #19854 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    So I’ve seen this touched on, but need a little more in the way of specifics. In varying your dog’s food, which I’ve never done before, I’ve seen many say that they even rotate after every bag. Following some suggestions I’ve read here, I’ve gotten some samples from companies, and bought trial size bags of some premium foods (HINT* – petflow.com often offers trial size bags for a limited time of premium dog food for anywhere from $1 – $5 depending on the size). So I now have a 5lb bag of Nutrisca Chicken and Chickpea and 5lbs of Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost. Any suggestions on how best to incorporate a small quantity like these into a rotation?

    #19855 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    Also, how do you get a picture onto your name 🙂
    I can’t find it anywhere on update profile!

    #19861 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi Sully’s Mom –

    To get an avatar go to gravatar(dot)com.

    Many people have different methods of rotational feeding. Some switch foods a few times a year, some switch after every bag, some have multiple foods at one time and switch with every meal and others stick with the same food and only rotate toppers (I personally don’t feel the rotating toppers only is the best method).

    When I used to feed kibble I got a new brand with a different protein source after each bag and I always had a variety of canned and fresh food toppers on hand and rotated toppers daily. So for example my dog would get a lamb based kibble made by Brand X and after that bag was gone I’d get a chicken based kibble from Brand Y, etc. – all the while rotating canned toppers daily. Now that my dogs eat a homemade raw diet I’m able to feed them something completely different at each meal.

    You really can rotate as often as you want – there’s no such thing as too much variety. Get a rotation plan going that works works for you and your dog. You could mix the trial bags you got in with the kibble you’re currently feeding or few a few meals of only the trial food until the bag is gone. Initially you may need to so slow transitions to get your dog accustomed to variety, however after a few switches you should be able to go from food to food without doing a gradual transition. I generally recommend, at the very least, having three go to foods (preferably from different manufacturers and with different protein sources).

    #19870 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Hi Sully’s Mom

    A year ago, I wasn’t rotating foods either. I had a dog with a sensitive stomach and changing foods always upset everything with her. I had another that was super picky, only eating about every third meal. When I started rotating, I started by adding canned or fresh toppers, just 20% or less of each meal. I would use the same topper for a few days then change it. That got my picky dog eating some better and it got my sensitive dog read for a food change. It always took a month to change foods completely with the sensitive dog, but I committed to doing it. As soon as I got her used to one food, I started the transition to the next. It took about 3 transitions before I realized that she could transition faster without stomach upset, so I started transitioning every 2 weeks. Now she gets a different food every meal, and I also feed some raw with never an upset stomach. And my picky dog is excited to eat, never misses a meal, and always licks his bowl clean. So when I say I had a dog with a sensitive stomach and I had a picky dog, it’s because they aren’t either of those things anymore. I have four different kibbles open at any given time, but with 3 athletic dogs I go through them pretty fast. And I feed a wide variety of raw proteins.

    #19877 Report Abuse
    InkedMarie
    Member

    Hey patty,
    For you and others who rotate kibbles & have more than one bag open, what size d you buy?

    #19884 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I buy 25 lbs bags. I go through about 50 lbs a month, more in the winter, so a bag will never be open for more than 2 months. We’re under a/c at all times, but even so, I’m fixing to go down to 3 bags at a time instead of 4 for the summer. I take a weeks worth of food out of the bag and roll the top down tight and clip it to keep air flow to a minimum. I also keep an eye out on the Brothers site for when they are selling 5 five lbs bags for the same price as a 25 lbs bag and take advantage of that.

    #19944 Report Abuse
    acs379
    Participant

    Hey Hound Dog Mom,

    As always, thank you SO much for all the information! I can’t tell you how much your responses have helped, and I feel much more prepared now. I went to a local store yesterday that sells only top brands and knew exactly what I was looking for. I got a few sample bags of The Honest Kitchen and they’re ordering me samples of Orijen and Nature’s Variety Instinct as well. They also sell the canned green tripe and a variety of freeze-fried/dehydrated foods so I think I’ll be good to go! Again, if I haven’t said it enough already, a million thanks!

    Also, thank you Sully’s Mom for the tip on the sample bags at Pet Flow! I was checking out their site because they seem to have pretty good prices and ship for free over $49. I’ll definitely look for the sample sizes!

    #19946 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    You’re welcome! In general, if you’re buying bags of dog food regularly, I find http://www.chewy.com to be less expensive than PetFlow, but I like PetFlow for the odd items. We got a box delivered yesterday with some trial sizes!

    #19947 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    PS: I just re-read your post and it was Nature’s Variety Instinct that I got samples of from PetFlow 🙂

    #19948 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    Another question – my little guy is 3 months old and loves to chew on shed antlers here and there. We were laying around last night and instead of just chewing on his antler (not breaking pieces off) like he typically does, I looked up and he had eaten about a 1 inch section of it. Antler, marrow, and all.

    In regards to calcium content, should I hold off on letting him have antlers until after he’s fully grown since he now wants to eat them? (he’s a spanish mastiff).

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 1 month ago by EHubbman.
    #19950 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    WOW – he actually at that much of an antler at three months old? Those things are rock hard. If he’s that powerful of a chewer I would be more concerned about him breaking teeth than the calcium content. The calcium content is very high though – ~24%.

    #19956 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    I know! That’s why I wasn’t expecting him to actually eat it! Typically he just sort of gnaws on it and a few shavings come off here and there. I looked up from my book to find antler chips and tiny bits of marrow all over the footer of my bed and he was just happily chewing away! He’s a great chewer with his food and treats, so i wasn’t worried about that, but I just was like “whoaaa calcium buddy” and just gave him something else to chew on.

    Thanks so much for the great info. I think we’ll hold off on antlers for now.

    I’m trying to find a food that he’ll eat. He was on TOTW and slowly just stopped eating it.
    A friend noted that he’ll eat when he’s hungry, so I left him with his food while I was at work, and in a day and a half he had only eaten 1/4 c of food, even with coaxing. He’d eat anything else I gave him, had no change in stool, and wasn’t vomiting, just wouldn’t eat. So I got a few different sample bags to switch him over, so he picked out all the new food (NV Instinct – Rabbit) and left all the TOTW in the bowl. He was OBSESSED with the NV for about a day, now he’s doing the same thing he did with the TOTW. Any help or ideas?

    His activity level is the same, he’s drinking lots of water, his stools are normal with nothing odd in them, he’s pottying fine, he’s not vomiting, his ears are clear and his eyes are a little gunky (have been since I got him), but it’s just regular eye boogies, no off color discharge. He’s growing quickly and I’m just getting concerned as I want to get him all the calories and nutrition he needs.

    EDIT: we went to the vet on Monday for puppy checkup (he was still eating regularly so I didn’t think to note it, just thought he didn’t like the TOTW) and his fecal came back just fine, as did his physical.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 1 month ago by EHubbman.
    #19968 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Have you tried mixing canned food with his dry? This can usually pique the appetite of picky dogs. For a dog like him that looses interest in foods so quickly a rotation diet may be a good idea – if you bought smaller bags you could keep 2 or 3 different foods on hand and switch between every meal, maybe this would keep him interested.

    #19983 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    I was going to run out tonight and get some cans as well as a different recipe of food. It’s hard finding kibble I feel comfortable feeding him, and I unfortunately don’t think I’ve got the budget to go raw. Bah.

    #20009 Report Abuse
    InkedMarie
    Member

    Patty, if you see good dels on Brothers, please let me know. If I hadn’t just ordered Zeal, I’d be buying some Brothers

    #20013 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Canned food can get pricey too. If you’re on a budget and you’ve got a Tractor Supply near you they sell 4Health canned (rated 4.5 stars) for $0.99 per can. There are three grain-free varieties (chicken, beef and turkey stew) and also three grain-inclusive varieties (chicken and rice, lamb and rice and fish and potato).

    #20015 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    you rock!! Thank you so much for all of your help.

    #20019 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    No problem, glad I could help! 🙂

    #20025 Report Abuse
    Saireah
    Member

    Interesting – Pet Flow includes samples with your order? I was going to go with Chewy over Pet Flow because it’s about $3/$4 cheaper, but… am intrigued by samples!

    #20026 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I think they are talking about Pet Flows trial size offers.

    #20027 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    No, they were sample/trial sizes – they were for sale , not free 🙂

    In general, Chewy is the better choice for full size bags!

    #20028 Report Abuse
    Saireah
    Member

    Oh. Whoops! Misunderstood. 🙂 Thanks!

    #20134 Report Abuse
    Sully’sMom
    Member

    HDM, do you know if there is a thread somewhere in the forum on Bloat? Thought there must be, but having trouble finding it..

    Thanks!

    #20139 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    Day 3 on mixing in some canned food and he is LOVING it. 🙂 I’ve never seen the boy eat so voraciously!

    We’re doing NV Instinct Rabbit Kibble right now, going to get a bag of the LID Turkey when he runs out of this. Then I’ve got a few different varieties of canned that I just add a decent size tablespoon of to his kibble and mix it in. Right now I’m just using NV Instinct cans until I get Cal/Phos numbers back from Hound and Gatos. At which point, we may try mixing in some of those as well. I’m rotating the canned recipes every meal to keep him interested (So far, so good!).

    (Side note: Apparently in Sept 2013 H&G’s is releasing a line of grain-free kibbles, so I’m interested to see what those will be about!)

    I talked to a friend about going partial raw/full raw and she said it’s not quite as expensive as I’d think, so we’re looking into that as well.

    Thanks again for your help! I don’t think I would be near as confident with our food choices had I not found this thread and all the great help you have given!

    #20141 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi Sully’s Mom –

    I’m almost certain there is a thread on bloat – although off the top of my head I have no idea what topic area it was under. Sorry 🙁

    #20142 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi EHubbam –

    Glad he’s enjoying his food with the canned!

    Raw can be done cheaply or it can be done very expensively. I’ve gotten VERY savvy at cutting costs over the years and am now feeding all three of my hounds for ~$350 per month (not too shabby when you consider I’m going through around 200 lbs. of meat a month + fruits/veggies and other extras like eggs and kefir + supplements). Homemade is MUCH cheaper – I get all my meat from a wholesale supplier that supplies local restaurants and grocery stores (truck come right to my house, I order ~300 lbs. per shipment) and I order my supplements from Swanson’s (low cost human supplements).

    #20150 Report Abuse
    EHubbman
    Participant

    That’s awesome. 🙂 I’ll have to look into wholesalers around my area.

    How do you make sure with raw that you’re giving a puppy everything they need in a balanced way?
    That would be my main concern were I to go full raw with him.

    #20154 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    I’ve been feeding raw for a few years so I have a good feel for balancing – I know what foods contain which nutrients, how much bone to feed, how much organ meat, which types of fats to add, etc. I started off using recipe books, but for the most part I now formulate my own menus. A lot of it is just variety. Each meal doesn’t have to be balanced but if you feed a variety of healthy and species-appropriate foods the nutrients should balance over time. Just like with people – each meal we eat isn’t completely balanced but we eat a variety of foods. I actually have several of my menus posted under the “Recommended Raw Food Menus” topic on the raw thread if you want to check them out. Towards the end I actually have a couple that I ran a full nutrient analysis on – just for kicks – and they conform to the AAFCO nutrient profile for all life stages.

    #20158 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I think we discussed bloat in detail right before the forum opened, so it is on one of the reviews.

    #20346 Report Abuse
    Newfs
    Member

    Hello Hound Dog Mom and all remaining Members 🙂
    I am here new, for the last few days I read this forum and I found here many interesting and useful information 🙂
    I would like to ask for the help in the selection of the fodder for mine 3,5 the monthly newfoundland pup.
    Unfortunately the most recommended feed by you is in Poland inaccessible or they are in cosmic prices.
    I consider following fodders, the most of them contains unfortunately cereals: Fromm Family Gold http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/large-breed-puppy-gold or Enova ( http://www.penner.ee/index.php? http://www.enovapetfood.com/default.aspx?mid=18456 page=138&action=show_product_details&product_id=508&group_id=45 or http://www.e-karma.pl/product-pol-750-ENOVA-Breeders-Bag-Grain-Free-Simple-20-kg.html ) or Husse Valp Maxi http://www.husse.co.uk/dog-food-products/dry-food-for-dogs/?product=110 or Canidae ( in Poland are accessible: All Life Stage Formula, CANIDAE Grain Free Pure Elements: chicken, turkey, lamb, ocean fish)
    Possibly: Nutra Gold http://www.nutragold.com/products/which_formula/dogs/large_breed_puppy/ or Hills ( http://www.hillspet.com/products/ha-canine-puppy-large-breed-healthy-advantage-dry-dry.html or http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-canine-puppy-large-breed-dry.html or http://www.hillspet.co.uk/en-gb/products/nb-canine-natures-best-puppy-large-breed-giant-dry.html )
    What do you advise to me ?
    I greet

    #20374 Report Abuse
    gsdmommy89
    Member

    Hey there HDM, me again!!

    so I was reading up on Earthborn Holistic and you recommended the Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast formulas. I like them both, but I was wondering about the Puppy Vantage formula. Although not grain free, I like the ingredients and it seems the calcium isn’t high. What do you think?

    #20394 Report Abuse
    Newfs
    Member

    I also thinking about Earthborn Holistic, but unfortunately currently in Poland Pro Pac is not available and it is not known when it will supply :/

    #20399 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    HDM recommended only those 2 Earthborn formula because their calcium levels where in the right range.

    #20532 Report Abuse
    Newfs
    Member

    Hello,
    I know that I asked tough questions, but if someone could answer me ?
    Please !

    #20536 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    Hi Newfs
    Sorry HDM has been out for a few days and she is the best at large breed questions. If you have Earthborn available to you, then Coastal Catch and Meadow Feast are both good for large breed puppies. If you have Nature’s Variety Instinct, the Rabbit and the Limited Ingredient Turkey are both good.

    #20546 Report Abuse
    sbrooker
    Participant

    Hi Hound Dog Mom

    I have a 5 month old Rhodesian Ridgeback. He has been fed Natures Variety Instict Raw Boost Chicken dry kibble since he could eat solid food. Is this item not on your list because it contains too much Calcium? He really enjoys his food, but I have noticed his stools are sometimes very runny. I attributed this at first to him eating grass and such, but am now wondering if his stomach is reacting to something in his food? Should I consider switching to the Natures Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Turkey that you have listed in your low calcium document?

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 1 month ago by sbrooker.
    #20551 Report Abuse
    theBCnut
    Member

    I’m not HDM, but yes, the chicken formula has too much calcium. You should consider changing to the LID Turkey or the Rabbit. Don’t bother with the Raw Boost, there isn’t enough of it in there to matter.

    There are a number of reasons the stools could be runny. First, get a fresh sample to the vet to rule out parasites. Then consider adding a digestive supplement that has both probiotics and enzymes in it to his meals. You probably won’t have to add it long term, but some people do.

    #20574 Report Abuse
    Boerboel Daddy
    Participant

    Hi

    I’m not sure if you have answered a similar question before as i haven’t read through the entire thread.. but here it goes

    I have a 2,5 yr old Boerboel ( South African Breed similar to a English Mastiff) who has just mated a week ago. I am currently feeding Eathborn Primitive natural (2.4% Calcium). I will natural feed the pups one of the other Eathborn Foods you have already recommended due to the lower calcium content… (thanks for that info by the way)
    .Other articles I’ve read warned against feeding too high levels of calcium to pregnant dogs and recommend switching to a puppy food of a quality dog food. (it had something to do with the contraction of the Uterus)

    Finally the Question…: can I keep her on Earthborn Primitive natural (2.4% calcium) or should I switch to another Earthborn product (1.2 – 1.3% calcium) until after she has given birth and continue with primitive natural then?
    also if I give her a calcium ascorbate supplement, does this affect the amount of calcium in the diet?

    Any advice give will be appreciated, My girl Jordan and I thank you in advance

    #20578 Report Abuse
    Hound Dog Mom
    Participant

    Hi Boerboel Daddy –

    Calcium Ascorbate does contain calcium – so I’d go easy on it. Personally, I’d put mom on whatever food the pups will be weaned onto. This will make feeding easier once they’re born. It’s kind of difficult to separate pups and mom for different separate feedings.

    #20786 Report Abuse
    sbrooker
    Participant

    Thanks for your answer Pattyvaughn. We are now in the process of switching him over to the Rabbit formula.

    What types of probiotics are best? I am new to this so I don’t know any brands or where to get them. I live in Canada and none of the local stores seems to carry any.

    Thanks

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