[crazy4cats]

Here is the latest from the FDA on the ongoing investigation into the ever increasing number of dogs and cats being diagnosed with Dilated Cardiomyopathy due to their diet:
https://www.petfoodindustry.com/articles/7887-fda-asks-pet-food-industry-for-dcm-related-information?fbclid=IwAR009PEbLG3fX4AIBKgKh0jEAkbr5_rUHdz6O2D8-75f2NKwKA05fU4VUe8#.XGgfFjOgs88.facebook
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Home » FDA asks pet food industry for DCM-related information
PET FOOD NEWS / PET FOOD INGREDIENTS / PET FOOD SAFETY
DCM-dog-foods-FDA
Debbie Phillips-Donaldson
BY DEBBIE PHILLIPS-DONALDSON ON FEBRUARY 14, 2019
FDA asks pet food industry for DCM-related information
FDA needs pet food producers to report on any changes in ingredients, processing or formulation.
3K
In its ongoing investigation into atypical cases of canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) possibly related to grain-free pet food ingredients, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is asking the industry for information related to changes in ingredients, processing or formulation.

David Edwards, Ph.D., an officer with FDA’s Center for Veterinary Medicine (CVM)’s Office of Surveillance and Compliance, presented an updated on the agency’s DCM investigation during the American Feed Industry Association’s 12th Annual Pet Food Conference, held February 12 in conjunction with the International Production and Processing Expo in Atlanta, Georgia, USA.

What FDA needs from pet food industry
Specifically, Edwards said, CVM needs information from pet food producers relative to the timeframe when most of the new cases of DCM were reported over the past few years, but mainly during 2018. He asked for input on changes in ingredients used, sourcing of ingredients, processing or formulation.

He also asked that pet food companies, academic programs and organizations such as the Pet Food Institute continue their own investigations on any potential issues with formulas and ingredients possibly related to this DCM situation.

Wide range of dogs reported among DCM cases
Through November 30, 2018, CVM had recorded 290 cases of DCM involving 325 dogs (plus a few cats) and 74 pet deaths, Edwards reported. The cases occurred from 2014 through 2018, but most were in 2018. He also presented demographic information showing a wide range of affected pets. For example, the most frequently reported dog breed was Golden Retrievers, with 61 dogs affected, while another 27 were mixed-breed and 25 were Labrador Retrievers. Other breeds with numbers in the double digits included Great Danes at 16 and Australian Shepherds at 11; Edwards listed 15 other breeds with three to nine dogs affected each.

Related to the variety of breeds affected, the dogs’ weight ranged from 8 to 212 pounds, with a mean of 68 pounds. They ranged in age from 0.42 to 16 years, with a mean of 6.5 years; 59 percent were male, 41 percent female.

Among the cats affected, ages ranged from 0.4 to 12 years; the mean was 5.5 years old. Their weight ranged from 7 to 13 pounds, with a mean of 11 pounds. The cats were 60 percent male, 40 percent female.

Dog foods and ingredients in DCM reports
Edwards also presented data on the types of dog foods and their ingredients in the reported DCM cases. The foods were predominantly dry (269 of the reports), with four raw and one each of wet and semi-moist. In 14 reports, multiple formulations were named; in five others, the foods were unknown.

Then Edwards provided a deeper dive into the formulations and ingredients for 196 of the reports, in which the affected dogs were fed a single, primary dog food:

About 90 percent of the diets were labeled grain free;
Of the other 10 percent of the foods, some were labeled vegan or vegetarian, while some contained brown rice;
A large proportion of the foods contained peas or lentils high on the ingredients list. In fact, peas appeared in 180 of the dog foods named in these 196 reports and lentils in 104 of the foods. Other ingredients presented by Edwards included potatoes, in 63 of the diets, plus sweet potatoes and chickpeas, each in 55 of the diets.
Edwards said that, before FDA issued its alert about these cases of DCM in July 2018, the agency had investigated for contaminants such as metals or improper levels of minerals and other nutrients in the cases reported to date. After the alert came out, FDA then bought some of the products named in the reports and tested them specifically for those same factors, among other things. All the tests before and after the alert were negative.

FDA is continuing its investigation, working with scientists and nutritionists in the Veterinary Laboratory and Investigation Response Network (Vet-LIRN), and also with veterinary cardiologists. The investigation has included nutritional and amino acid analyses of the foods reported and complete health histories of many of the dogs, Edwards said.

[anonymous]

I hope that you find this site helpful
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=large+breed+puppy+food

Also, find a vet that you like and trust go in for routine checkups, an initial evaluation.
Go from there.

[Js10052]

Hey,

I just adopted a “puppy” from a rescue. We aren’t exactly sure the breed, he is a lab mix but we don’t know what he is all mixed with. And they estimated him around a year old. Now that he is home, he seems to have a lot of puppy traits and did gain 5 pounds in about two weeks, so we aren’t sure how old he is. The shelter told us that we could switch him to adult food after he finished the mix of adult and puppy that they sent him home with. I have been researching online and it seems that dogs, especially large breed should be on puppy food for longer. So now I am completely confused what I should be looking for for him. Because I had to get food I got a bag that was highly recommended for labs, but I don’t like it that much and want to switch it, but I don’t know if I should be doing puppy food, a mix of puppy and adult or what I should be doing.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!

[Christie B]

Hi Susan,

Thanks for the recipes. I’d prefer to make my own toppers and put my crockpot to use. If I don’t put anything on their kibble and leave it out, they’ll eventually get hungry enough to eat it. Today, I really confused them. I was running late to work so I put a whole large carrot in each bowl as both a “topper” and a daytime “treat” and I just peeked in on them 2 hours later on my petcam and neither bowl has been touched yet.

I bet by the time I get home later tonight, there will be carrot bits all over my carpet.

I used to boil (which I’ve been told time and time again kills the nutrients) skinless, boneless chicken thighs, but my big guy has food intolerance. I find a food that’s 5 star rated, and they hate it and refuse to eat it. I go back to my least favorite Blue Buffalo kibble and they gobble it right up. So I decide not to fight it, because there are worse foods out there. And both dogs devoured it up , no toppers needed. I was amazed. I went through a bag of Chicken. But I wanted something senior or large breed for my 10 year old, and they have a Senior Large Breed but it’s chicken and if I stay too long with one protein, issues arise. So I tried their Large Breed Adult Lamb and their regular Adult lamb. Dogs loved it for a few days, but then didn’t show much interest. Had to add a topper. Now not even through 1/4 of the bag, the itching starts. It’s a big bag. Is it the lamb? Ugh. It’s a never ending cycle of trial and error. I’m watching him for the next few days to see if it’s a fluke.

If it’s not and I have to switch him to another food, maybe fish this time, how terrible would it be to feed my smaller dog the large breed bag of lamb so I don’t waste it all? She’s about 45-50 lbs. (though she should probably be 35-40 at ideal weight).

Any brand have a senior large breed fish kibble? The BB senior and large breed guaranteed analysis % were similar, I just went with the large breed for the extra chondroitin and glucosamine

[Christie B]

Are there advantages, other than price, in feeding dry kibble over wet food? I’m not trying to debate commercial feeding vs. raw. More like Brand A kibble formula vs Brand A wet food.

If I understand correctly, on average, wet/canned food has more protein, more fat and less carbs than its kibble counterpart. /choosing-dog-food/canned-or-dry-dog-food/

I know a lot of people, myself included, mix a small amount of wet food in with kibble to make it palatable for picky eaters. And I’m going over my current pet food shopping list: adult kibble for 1 dog, senior or large breed adult for my other dog, canned food as a topper for both, wet food for adult cat w/ history of urinary blockage, and dry food for cat 2 who flat out refuses to eat wet food. I also use shredded chicken thighs, canned salmon and sardines as toppers.

The worst is the days when I mix in a topper (could be the same can that I used the meal before that the dogs loved) and the dogs are now not interested and I’m left with half eaten mixed kibble that has to be tossed. Or even better, when my smaller dog licks the topper off of the kibble, eats a few pieces of kibble once the bowl is cleaned of the topper and then abandons the bowl.

The average kibble feeding guideline for my 120 lb. dog is 5-6 cups of kibble a day. And I know those values are high and my vet even told me to aim for about half of that if I add some wet food as a topper. My dog seems happy with 1.5 cups twice daily.

But looking at the same brand’s wet food product, it says” Feed ½ to 1 can for every 10 lbs. of body weight per day. That’s 6-12 cans of food! And since wet food is higher in fat, isn’t that even more unhealthy?

The price alone is crazy. How do people with 100+ lb. dogs feed wet without going broke? Or do you just feed kibble?

• This topic was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Christie B.

[Susan]

Hi,
I was feeding TOTW my boy did really well with his IBD & Allergies then about 15months ago my boy went down hill, I dont know if it was the food but he stopped eating TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb his favorite & Patch eats “everything” then finally after feeding “Wellness Core Large Breed Adult” Patch finally started to get better & was his happy self again, you dont need to feed much, its high protein, low/med-fat & is low in
carbs good for losing weight Kcals are 345 Kcals per cup, also is high in Glucosamine
Patch is 10yrs old acted like a pup on Wellness Core Large Breed Adult…
Wellness have a few different formula’s with grains with out grains with both..
Here’s Wellness site – – https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food

Canidae is another good brand…
Canidae – https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
Canidae Pure Meadow Senior” on page 4 is really good…

[crazy4cats]

Hi Midama-
Congratulations on your new pup. Definitely make sure that you choose a puppy food formulated especially for a large breed puppy. They need certain calcium percentages. It’s very important for their joints. Keep the puppy as lean as possible and limit the exercise. I would get rid of the Taste of the Wild and feed either Purina, Royal Canin, Hill’s, Eukanuba, or Iams. They all meet the WSAVA guidelines for choosing a good dog food.

Currently, I feed my dogs Purina kibble with mostly Purina canned. But also mix in either eggs, fresh chicken or sardines a few days a week as well. The unbalanced toppers and treats should be no more than 10 to 15 percent of their total diet. I feed mostly weight management kibble that is 350 calories or less per cup. My dogs are also chubby lab mixes!

My cats get Royal Canin because they are the royalty of the house! 😊❤️

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Christie B]

Hi madima,

I have a 120 lb. 10 year old American Bulldog mix and 4 year old 45-50 lb. Catahoula mix. Like your two dogs, they have different nutritional needs. I’ve tried to find a food that both can eat (since they literally will investigate each other’s food bowls during feeding time).

My senior dog had had issues with chicken and it’s really hard to find a Large breed Senior formula that doesn’t use chicken. And the ones that do are grain free and tend to use lentils or chickpeas in the first 5 ingredients and my dog winds up with stomach issues when he eats food with those ingredients. He did okay on CANIDAE Grain-Free PURE Meadow Senior Formula for a while.

I haven’t had a puppy in a while so I can’t recommend any large breed puppy formulas.

As for toppers, I rotate between canned salmon or sardines, eggs, boiled boneless chicken thighs or sometimes canned dog food [type that’s 96% *insert protein form*] when it’s on sale… not too much of it because I’m trying get these guys to lose some lbs. I used to buy Stella & Chewy’a meal mixers or Instinct Rawboost mixers, but they were just too expensive in the long run.

[madima]

Hello! I have a 7-8 year old Golden mix (he could be older, but they said he was 3 or 4 when we got him) who is around 75lbs, but needs to lose some weight. I also recently adopted a Great Pyrenees/hound or pointer mix large breed puppy. He is 3 1/2 months old and 35lbs.
I have been feeding my older dog Taste of The Wild for a year or two now, and recently found out the things going on with the brand. I also currently have the puppy on the puppy formula, though I’m looking to change them both to something else.
I’m sort of looking for full suggestions about feeding both of them, whether that be brands, supplements or toppers. I’m willing to top with natural things (vegetables, fruit, some meat, oil, etc.) or canned food, which I top my older dog’s food with for dinner. I have a feeling he has so orthopedic issues, which we’re going to the vet for tomorrow.
I know the puppy needs a certain amount of calcium; not too much, not too little. I’m also aware my senior needs extra protein. I’m planning on asking about his diet when I go to the vet, but I wanted some advice on some dry food, wet food and toppers/supplements for both dogs. I’m not very educated when it comes to dog nutrition. I would appreciate any suggestions or advice. Thanks in advance! 🙂

[Patricia A]

I think the freeze dried version of raw is always more expensive . Frozen raw is probably the way to go with large breed dogs. I find Primal is great and also use Stella’s. Primal has Pronto frozen bags which has small round shape that is scoopable.I have small breeds so I do the freeze dried. I also stick to the 5* proteins/flavors on the reviews here. I believe these are higher protein vs fat to avoid pancreatitis. Bixbi rawbble is excellent also. Much lower in fat in all proteins/flavors. I find them expensive so I give as treats.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[Amir H]

Thanks for the reply.

I do know about the DCM issue and grain-free. That’s why i chose Fromm large breed puppy (it has 4 stars on dogfood advisor). I am worried about switching to a grain-free diet a bit as well but most high quality kibbles are grain free these days (Fromm is really an exception). Here are some other thoughts I had:

1- Orijen is great in terms of ingredients but their last lawsuit is keeping me away from Orijen and Acana. I totally know that the lawsuit could be baseless but I want to be safe.

2- I’m adding Primal nuggets and stella & chewy freeze dried to Fromm kibble as topper every day. So that’s a route I can continue. My dog eats 3 cups of Fromm food and the toppers I put are about 0.4 cups. So, at least I know I’m getting some freeze dried food and some other nutritions to her.

3- I’ve also considered going completely freeze dried (buy Stella & Chewy). It’d be expensive but it still fits my budget. I just don’t want to make the transition while she’s still a puppy. I’ll do that when I’m transitioning her to adult food.

It’s kind of sad that all good quality foods are grain-free these days.

[Patricia A]

Kind of at a loss to advise. My dogs were on Fromm for years until they just stopped eating it. I was relieved to find this site at that time because I was getting overwhelmed with choices at my pet supply store. So I used advisor reviews and ratings as a starting point which led me to Stella’s baked kibble. I was already using some Stella’s meal toppers on the Fromm.
I looked at ratings for Fromm Gold large breed adult and he only gives it 3.5 stars. Stella’s gets full 5. Of course a monkey wrench has been thrown in to add worry. I finally found a diet for my two that I felt good about feeding and that they BOTH ate enthusiastically and had no tummy troubles with.
Stella’s kibble has a lot of legumes high up on ingredients list. Don’t know if your aware of the controversy concerning grain free kibble and heart disease (DCM).I’ve written to them and they assure me and others who are concerned on their f/b page that they’re kibble is safe. I really like their ingredients and that it is baked at lower temperatures for better nutrition. Also high protein and low carbs. I stopped feeding the kibble but went back recently and only get the chicken recipe. Beliefs are that the cause, among many other possibilities might be exotic proteins WITH the legumes. Anyway the kibble is only a very small portion of their diet. I use Primal freeze dried and the Stella’s freeze dried also. I have Chihuahuas and not really one of the breeds most susceptible to the DCM but still concerned. Hope this helps.
Just want to add that since Stella’s kibble is so expensive possibly it’s mostly only being fed to small breeds. Most of the cases I believe are Goldens and larger breeds who are fed the grain free diets with high legumes.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Patricia A.

[Amir H]

Hi all,
I have a standard Poodle puppy (7 months old). She’s about 32 pounds know. I’m not sure if she’s gonna be above 50 lbs. To be safe I’m feeding her large breed puppy food. She’s been on Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy for a few months now and she’s doing good (I have to add some freeze dried toppers to her food to keep her interested).

I’m thinking of rotating her food to something else just to make sure she’s getting all the necessary the necessary nutrition. I’m thinking of switching her to Stella and Chewy Raw Coated Kibble for Puppies: https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/raw-coated-kibble/puppy-chicken-recipe
I know that Stella and Chewy kibble is higher price, but it’s within my budget.

I wanted to know if this is a good decision or not? Should I just stay on Fromm or for the next 3 months switch her to something else for the sake of rotation.

[Christie B]

I’ve been on a crazy food journey with my dog. When I first adopted him 9 years ago, the kill shelter that I got him from tole me that he was full grown (40 pounds). That was far from the truth as he’s currently 120 pounds. My vet suggested Purina Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy for two years, followed by Pro Plan Large Breed Adult. My dog always had issues though with loose stools and itchy skin/biting paws/ear infections. I transitioned him to Blue Buffalo Large Breed Fish kibble and he did really well. Then I read about grain free and how it was so much better, so I came to this site to find the best foods. I read all these comments regarding Blue Buffalo and quickly started to look at their ” 5 star rated grain free” foods.

I’ve tried them all.

I’ve given each of them at least 6 months with proper transitioning. I always had issues. I’d go to the vet, he’d tell me to go off of the grain free and go back to Purina. But I can read the bag myself and it doesn’t look healthy at all. Blood results were normal. I’ve tried different proteins (chicken seemed to cause more issues). TOTW, Nutro, Instinct, Merrick, Solid Gold, Fromms, the list goes long.

I can’t even say that it has anything to do with grain free. Only, he’s been off it for a few months now and he’s eating right, has firm stools, and no skin issues. I’m at a loss. I explicitly chose foods from the 5 star list and now his food is rated 3.5 stars and he’s doing well, but I feel guilty giving him something perceived as ‘not good’.

@Patti_S – I do like the 96% single protein canned foods. I rotate using them as a topper with some canned salmon.

[Christie B]

@susan, I walked through Petco and looked at practically every bag of food they had. All the large breed formulas were chicken based. Almost all of the senior formulas were chicken based. The only one I could find is Nutro lamb based senior food.

What kind of issues did your dog have with Nutro brand?

And would you choose a large breed formula over a senior formula?

Petco’s resident “food expert” asked what I was looking for when I went there the other day. I told him that I’m trying to transition away from chicken for the next rotation. They didn’t have a senior formula that wasn’t chicken based, but he showed me a Merrick bag that was high in protein and had 1200 mg/kg Glucosamine and 1200 mg/kg Chondroitin. I bought a small bag, just to see. I mixed a tiny bit in with their regular food. Neither dogs were interested at all, but eventually ate some of it. They literally turned away from the open bag.

But the gas was bad afterwards…both of them. So bad. I think it was too rich. Most of the “senior” formula labels had proteins at around 22-26% and fat at 10-12%. Merrick’s was 38% protein, 17% fat. I liked that it had the Glucosamine and Chondroitin, but I think the fat content was too high.

I’m not even going to bother continuing with it.

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
Wellness Core, Wellness Simple & Wellness Complete Health & Canidae have all been the same shape, size, colour & smell, I havent had a change yet with these brands…
I did get different kibble size, smell & colour with TOTW, Earthborn Holistic & a few Australian brands & Patches did his smelly farts & had soft poos for 5-7 days then he was back to normal after 1 week….

Say you get another Holistic Select Lamb kibble bag & the kibbles are small aswell??
Have you taken photo & send to Holistic Select & ask why has the kibble size changed?? is this how the kibble will be?? I think they do the small small kibble size so small breeds can also eat those formula’s aswell, alot of small dog owners whinge when the kibble size is big, Wellness Core Large Breed Adult Kibbles size is big the Wellness Simple is just a little bit smaller, I like the med/large triangle size kibble cause Patch chews them, the small kibbles are suppose to be easier to digest……
I’d ring Chewy back & ask has your order gone out can you change it & get a different brand food Vonn wasnt really keen on the Holistic Select in the beginning & he might do better on another kibble?? I had to try heaps of different brands till I finally found a few brands that agree with Patch & I liked them aswell lol..

[Susan]

Hi Pat,
Sorry for what has happened 🙁
if you can afford it I’d cook meals or feed 1 cooked meal & the other meal feed a freeze dried dog food that has human grade ingredients, I’d stay away from dry kibbles & wet can dog foods…
Take back the 3 bags of TOTW food & get your money back..if pet shop wont refund then contact TOTW..
also here’s link for FDA to report a problem.
https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/ReportaProblem/ucm182403.htm

Ask vet to do full blood test see if liver is OK ??

My Patch was doing really well on TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb from 2015-2017 then 2017-Nov he started to go down hill & refused to eat his TOTW Lamb kibble, Patch NEVER refuses food, thats when I knew something was wrong.
I blammed the TOTW Lamb kibble he was eating had made him very ill being a Diamond product he didnt get better after I stopped teh TOTW kibble so in January 2018 he had endoscope & biopsies done & he has LES – his Lower Esophageal Sphincter flap doesnt close properly this was causing bad acid reflux washing back up & was burning his wind pipe & esophagus were both red & inflammmed but I still think TOTW made him ill aswell, his liver results weren’t good, I’d say a few things were happening cause he does have IBD & Skin Allergies but we are what we eat & he was eating the same dry food I wasnt rotating & feeding any other foods like I normally do….

Never feed the same brand of pet food month after month, year after year, this is when health problems can start to happen…
Now I rotate his foods again, I change between 3 different brands now & try & add as much fresh food as possible in his diet.. When I started feeding him “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult dry & “Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato he started to get better, he hasnt become ill again..but it took a while for him to get well again

There’s a company that test/studies for toxins, heavy metals & contaminates they test
the best selling Pet Foods in America, these dog foods are tested in an accredited analytical chemistry laboratory for 130 harmful environmental and industrial contaminants and toxins. Results are published as Product Ratings.
I cant post the link as DFA, DFA doesn’t believe in this testing & blocks the link, different batches of Dog/Cat wet, dry & treats get tested every 3-4 months these are all “new different batches” that are being tested everytime, certain brands of pet foods keep coming back time & time again very high in toxins, heavy metals & contaminates &

TOTW High Prairie adult formula & TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon have been on the 1 star – high toxins, heavy metals & contaminate list for nilly 2yrs now cause they have poison ingredients in them… 🙁

Google, heavy metals, toxins in dry dog foods,
so you can see all the 5 -1 star foods –

Here’s C L P first 13 x 5 star dry dog foods that tested very well, if you cant find the dry food site C L P I’m talking about.
Thats if you want to continue feeding a dog food..

* Buckley Liberty Freeze-Dried Beef Recipe Dry Dog Food
* Buckley Grain Free Liberty With Lamb Dry Dog Food
* Buckley Liberty Freeze-Dried Chicken Recipe Dry Dog Food
* Buckley Liberty Grain Free with Chicken Dry Dog Food
* Canisource Grand Cru All Life Stages Turkey Formula Dehydrated Raw Dry Dog Food
* CaniSource Grand Cru All Life Stages Pork and Lamb Formula Dehydrated Raw Dry Dog Food
* CaniSource Grand Cru All Life Stages Red Meat Formula Dehydrated Raw Dry Dog Food
* BIXBI Rawbble Freeze-Dried Dry Dog Food Duck Recipe
* BIXBI Rawbble Freeze-Dried Dry Dog Food Chicken Recipe
* BIXBI Rawbble Freeze-Dried Dry Dog Food Salmon & Chicken Recipe
* BIXBI Rawbble Dry Dog Food Lamb Recipe
* I and Love and You Grain Free Naked Essentials With Lamb + Bison Dry Dog Foo
* I and Love and You Grain Free Naked Essentials With Chicken + Duck Dry Dog Food

[Pat W]

I just wanted to post an update on my issues with TOTW. After feeding this product for 2 years I started having issues with refusal to eat and vomiting. It began when I started switching my adult dogs from TOTW High Prairie puppy to TOTW High Prairie adult formula. (I feed everyone the puppy formula during breeding cycles so I don’t have to worry about who is supposed to get what food.) As I switched our adult dogs over to the adult formula they started having issues. It started with one dog, then 2, and by the second or third day I had 3 vomiting immediately after eating and several others refusing their food. I immediately switched all of them back to the puppy formula and the issues resolved. But as soon as I started a new bag of TOTW puppy everyone was getting sick again. Desperate, after getting recommendations from other breeders, I did an abrupt switch to Merrick. Gastric issues in most of my dogs immediately resolved, however, we had one older dog who continued to have problems, refusing to eat and experiencing gastric discomfort. I treated her with charcoal, turmeric/curcumin, and symethicone. She appeared to be improving and I fed her some boiled chicken and organic grown rice in chicken broth. She appeared to rally for a day or so- even took her for a walk, and then she stopped eating and went rapidly downhill. One of my other dogs had taken a little over two days to begin eating again after I switched her to Merrick, so I figured she would come around after a couple of days. Today, the third day of her not eating, I was planning on bringing her to the vet to see if there was something else they could do for her, but before we could get ready to go she passed away.
I don’t know what is going on with TOTW, but something must have happened. I was very happy with them for 2 years, now I have 3 large bags of TOTW I will not feed and a dead dog.

[Christie B]

@Susan Thanks for the advise. So far so good with his mobility. He still runs around and is pretty agile for a 10 year old large breed. I worry mostly about his front right leg, which is bowlegged. It doesn’t cause him any pain to stand or walk on it and he runs fine. I give him a senior Mobility Bites and Turmeric Curcumin supplements by zesty paws as a preventative.
The Mobility bites have 450mg of glucosamine HCL, 100mg of chondroitin sulfate and 5mg of hyaluronic acid per chew and he takes 3 per day.

My dog get sick whenever lentils or chickpeas are in the first few ingredients, so it’s hard finding a food that works (that he’ll actually eat). It was the biggest reasons I switched to Blue Buffalo. Most of the grain free recipes have chickpeas or lentil as a main ingredient.

I guess I could always try to feed the two dogs in two different rooms, but every single time they leave like 1/4 of their food and then sniff around and eat each other’s.

I’m trying to rotate proteins because we start to have issues once we stay on one too long. We’re just about done with chicken and I see the Pure Meadow lists chicken as the first ingredient.

I literally walked through Petsmart on Friday and read every label. So many grain free formulas listed lentils or chickpeas within the top four ingredients and when I found one that listed something like sweet potatoes, the main protein was chicken.

I was hoping to find something like lamb or duck. I know Merrick makes High Protein formulas, but I’ve heard some not so nice things about the brand. It rates good on this site. And I thought Merrick was going to run it’s operation independently from Nestle Purina. But I could be wrong. The internet is filled with conflicting stories. But at this point, if the food is decent and it’s working for the dogs, I should give it a try, right?

I hear horror stories about Blue Buffalo and Merrick on this site. I’d love to find a food that can be found in a local store like Petco or Petsmart (I live near both).

[Sanne]

Lots of great advice in Susan’s post. Though if your dog has arthritis I would not rely on any food for glucosamine support. They are just not high enough to make any substantial difference. For example, in the Core Large Breed formula, the amount of food my bigger dog would eat of that brand would supply her around 300mg of glucosamine. Her vet recommends closer to 1000mg for her size. My dog would have to eat over a kg of that food just to meet her recommended amount daily lol. Best to use a supplement to add it if your dog needs it.

On a side note, only thing I found to help my older dog’s aches and pains is CBD oil. Good stuff.

[Susan]

Hi
I prefer to feed diet for age of my dog, a pup eats puppy formula, an adult 1-7 eats an adult formula & a senior dog eats a senior food, senior food have all the supplements for aging dogs joint, bones etc & have lower fat, higher protein, well it depends which brand you feed, I like “Canidae Pure Meadow” Senior formula, its high in Omega 3 fatty acid, has Glucosamine but its not as high as the Wellness Core Large breed Adult formula, Ive found the the Large Breed formula’s are higher in Glucosamine & Chondroitin then most senior foods.. I was going to try Wellness Core Senior but it has Lentils Patch gets diarrhea from lentils & bad wind pain, gas farts..
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-meadow-dry-formula

I dont know if your 10 year old American Bulldog Pit mix has Arthritis, he probably does??
Have you tried “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult Grain Free dry kibble?
it’s low Kcals-346kcals per cup, high Protein-34%min, low/med fat -13%max
Carbs-30% scroll down to “Nutrient Profiles”
then click on the “GET THE PDF” link it will give you all the max “Dry Matter Basis %”
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed

My boy 10yr old Staffy – 40lbs suffers with IBD, Food & Environment Allergies & he has this 3-4cm bone thing growing out of his left hip bone, vets said they have never seen anything like it, the vet said he was probably born with it…
anyway around age 9 he started running on 3 legs, letting his left back leg to hang while running, then last year in December – January he went down hill with his IBD then in March he was really sick with his stomach he had bad acid reflux, I started introducing Wellness Core Large Breed adult formula, it had the right fat%, Low Kcals, low carbs & high protein % also was high in Glucosamine was not less than 750 mg/kg
Chondroitin Sulfate was not less than 250 mg/kg…
After 3weeks of eating the Wellness Core everythng got better his stomach his acid reflux stopped 🙂 his back leg, he stop running on 3 legs, he ran on all 4 legs & started acting like a young pup again… His vet, the Pet Shop man, everyone couldnt believe what a big difference after eating the Wellness Core Large Breed Adult formula had made.

Now I rotate his dry foods, between Canidae Pure Meadow Senior, Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato formula & an Australian made brand Frontier Pets Freeze Dried for lunch,
cause Patch became so unwell in Dec -2017-Jan-2018 after eating TOTW & Nutro, I’ve kept feeding Patch his Wellness Core Large breed formula for 8-9 months never rotated with any other dry kibbles except at lunch time he gets a small wet meal, then Summer came & so did Patches environment allergies bad so I thought I’ll rotate & change his dry food to Wellness Simple Turkey & potato formula cause he did so well on the Wellness Core also the Wellness Simple is formulated for Skin problems & is high in Omega 3 fatty acids…
About 2-3 weeks after I stopped feeding his Wellness Core Large Breed formula & was feeding him just the Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato formula, his IBD = firm poos & his Skin & coat was beautiful & shinney, he stopped alot of his scratching & being itchy from allergies, I also bath him twice a week or weekly depends on how itchy he gets, baths wash off all the allergens off his skin & paws, BUT he started running on 3 legs again 🙁

The Wellness Core Large Breed is higher Glucosamine & Chondroitin Sulfate it must of really helped with his arthritis in his lower back pain….So I bought the Glucosamine Chrondroitin, Vitamin C & Maganese Powder to add to his dry meal, I couldnt workout teh dose as it wasnt like the tablets dose + it taste AWFUL yuk I couldnt drink it, it says to add to fruit juice, its yuk no way Patch will take it.. so I quickly put him back to 1/2 Wellness Core Large Breed kibble & Wellness Simple kibble, now he’s getting “Cartrophen Vet Injections” he gets 1 weekly injection for 1 month then you stop, today was his last injection, Cartrophen Vet has really helped his lower back pain the thing is he’s a nut & he jumps up to say hello to visitors & this is when he hurts his lower back more..

You need a diet HIGH in Omega 3 fatty acid not high in Omega 6 fatty acid, Omega 3 is anti-inflammatory & tooo much Omega 6 is no good for inflammatory problems, Omega 6 is an inflammatory….
The body needs a healthy balance of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. Excess consumption of omega-6s can trigger the body to produce pro-inflammatory chemicals.

When a dog diet is not balanced properly & is too low in Omega 3 & way to high in Omega 6 alot of dry/wet can foods aren’t balanced properly, this can cause skin problems with dogs…. Omega 3 should be nilly 1/2 of what the Omega 6% says..
Wellness Simple is excellent for dogs who have Skin/Stomach problems
Omega 3 Fatty Acids-1.13%, the Omega 6 Fatty Acids-2.30% max %.
Click on the PDF page
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/simple-limited-ingredient-turkey-potato-recipe

Instead of adding 2 tble spoons of wet can food start adding some Tin Salmon in spring water, drain the spring water, put salmon in small air tight container put in fridge..
Omega-3 fatty acids are found in salmon, sardines, eggs, almonds, and other anti-inflammatory foods. Add 1-2 spoons of tin Salmon or Sardines to each meal..
Sardines can be a bit rich for some dogs I have to feed the Salmon + swet potat instead with Patch..

What I do when changing to a new dry formula same formula, first I check is it the same Use By Date, same Batch?? then I put 1/2 new kibble & 1/2 old kibble in an air tight container & mix thru, my boy use to be very sensitive but now since rotating between a few different brands he does really well, his immune system has become heaps stronger..

Boil Sweet Potato pieces & freeze them in those clip lock sandwich bags, Sweet Potato freezes & thaws really well, I put 1 frozen piece Sweet Potato in the micro wave 15-25sec etc then I mash teh Sweeet potato piece on a plate & let Patch lick it off..
Sweet Potato & Potato firm poo up & is excellent when dog has upset stomach/bowel, start adding 2 spoons of Sweet Potato & Salmon with dry kibble, its healthier & cheaper then wet can foods..

[Tammie W]

I have been feeding Diamond Hi Energy for about 2 years. All of a sudden my female dobie had 2 small litters, 1 was 5 and 2nd was 4. prior to diamond she had large litters 11 and 12. I also noticed her heat cycle changed, like a month early or late. I started researching and i did find that it could be a low sperm or low estrogen count due to an E deficiency which i already was supplementing that along with a good vitamin supplement. So then my other female i pulled out of the pen so she would not breed her 1st heat. A few days later she started her heat, 3 wks later i put her back out in the pen. almost a month after she looked like she was coming into heat again, So started watching daily, a week later she has a pup. I am stumped at this point as she only had one. A singleton birth. I am still trying to figure out how she got pregnant, like a devine intervention. lol. So then i tried researching again, nothing that made sense. so i researched singleton births and then the phytoestrogens came up. I am so pissed at Diamond right now as their delivery guy was really pushing for breeders to use their food. Giving discounts. Which dont get me wrong Diamond is a good food. IF YOU’RE NOT BREEDING and free choicing. These phytoestrogens are screwing with the reproductive system. I free choice so my dogs were getting slammed with this crap. I wrote Diamond about it and never got a response. I lost well over $30,000 over this escapade of theirs. WHY ARE THEY PUTTING ESTROGEN IN OUR DOGS FOOD NOW.?? Well i think i can figure that out. They are trying to put breeders out of business, as they are pushing for you to adopt. We wouldnt have to adopt or cause shelters to fill up if people would keep their promise to give their animals a forever home.
Anyway the pea’s they are putting in the dog food are natural contraceptives.
In the instance of phytoestrogens, they mimic or interfere with estrogen produced in the body by binding to estrogen receptors. This could lead to delaying puberty and infertility.
check this link out.

https://www.tumblr.com/drjeandoddspethealthresource/140578288096/phytoestrogens-dog-cat

I have returned back to the basic’s. Purina, never had any issue’s with purina products

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Tammie W. Reason: forgot a statement

[Sanne]

Usually a large breed formula is only truly necessary for a growing large breed puppy. The calcium and phosphorus levels are usually balanced better in large breed puppy food, ensuring proper growth. Not sure about the guidelines for adults though, never had huge dogs

Studies have shown that senior dogs need more protein per kg of body weight than an average adult dog, up to 50% more. Senior dogs on low protein foods had weaker muscles and more muscle tearing. There is no beneficial reason to lower a healthy senior dog’s protein intake.

As a general rule of thumb, my vet tends to recommend around 2g of protein per kg of body weight for a healthy adult dog and 3g of protein per kg for a healthy senior

[InkedMarie]

I can’t comment about the large breed or not but senior dogs need more protein, not less.

[Christie B]

@InkedMarie, I’m not exactly a fan of BB myself, but it seems to be the one brand that causes the least issues with my dog.

Over the past 10 years I’ve tried many of the brands recommended from this site: Wellness, Merrick, TOTW, Canidae, Acana, Instinct, Whole Earth Farms, Nulo…

Blue Buffalo is the only one they seem to want to eat. It drives me a bit crazy. But considering my vet keeps pushing Purina Pro Plan, BB seems like a step up from that.

My big guy isn’t overweight but losing a few pounds couldn’t hurt. The rep was saying that Adult formula has more protein than Senior food and as dogs age they require less protein. And since he’s over 100 pounds, he should be on a large breed formula.

[Christie B]

I have two dogs, a 10 year old American Bulldog Pit mix (115 lbs.) and a 4 year old Catahoula mix (40 lbs).

Both dogs are currently eating Blue Buffalo Adult dry, mixed with approx 2 tablespoons of BB wet, twice a day.

No matter what brand I buy or which protein formula I choose, if I run out of a large bag and buy another of the same formula, one of the dogs (usually the big one) starts to either have digestive issues or skin issues.

It was suggested to try to rotate the protein formula, which is what I intend to do once the current bag is almost done.

My question though is more about Mature vs Adult. I ran into a Blue Buffalo rep at the store last week and he asked the ages and sizes of my dogs. He recommended the regular Adult formula for my Catahoula, but said my American Bulldog mix should be on Mature Large Breed formula.

My dogs have a habit of eating from each others’ bowls when I feed them. If it was that important, I could watch them and discourage them from doing it.

But was the rep giving me sound advice or trying to get me to buy twice as much food?

[Susan]

Hi,
Have a look at limited ingredient formula’s if you think it might be food sensitivities, best off feeding a single meat protein & 1-2 carbs…
I rotate between 2-3 “different brands” that agree with my boy, I dont feed the same brand 24/7, year after year, if something is wrong with a certain brand of dog food, heavy metals, toxins, contaminates etc then that’s all your dog is eating 24/7 causing health problems down teh track…
Join this f/b group “Dog Allergies, Issues & Other Information Support Group” on face book
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DogAllergiesIssuesandOtherInformationSupporGroup/
Dogs who have thyriod problems normally suffer skin problems aswell so it might have nothing to with diet? But I’d still change his food brand, sounds like he has been eating Kirklands for a while, feed him a variety of different foods, chicken & turkey seem to be the cleanest meats when pet foods were tested for heavy metals toxins & contaminates.

I feed “Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato & “Wellness Core” Large breed Adult. my boy suffers with IBD & Environment Allergies.
Here’s Wellness Simple formula’s look to your right & you’ll see the different Simple limited ingredient formula’s to choose from…
Here’s Wellness Simple Healthy Weight LID formula.
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/simple-limited-ingredient-healthy-weight

I also rotate & feed “Canidae Pure” formula’s, Canidae “Pure” formula’s has limited ingredients.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
Scroll down a bit & look to your right & you’ll see all the pages of Canidae formula’s
VIEW ALL << 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 >>
I feed the Canidae Pure Wild Boar & Canidae Pure Meadow Senior formula..

I would stay away from all fish pet foods, some can be very high in heavy metals, contaminates & toxins….
The “First Mate” Chicken Meal & Blueberrries formula looks good & it’s Legume free, the rest of the First Mate formula’s are high in fiber -7%….

Limited Ingredient Chicken Meal with Blueberries Formula

[InkedMarie]

Kyle,
Did you read the large breed puppy thread in the diet and health forum?

[Susan]

Hi Margie,
Did you try the Hills I/d Low Fat Rice, Vegetable, Chicken Stew, wet small can food?? the ingredients are OK & are easy digestable ingredients…. the dry Hills I/d Low Fat kibble wasnt the best…
There’s also “Royal Canine Low Fat Intestinal” Wet Can no chicken, its pork & smells pretty good but the omega oils are very high, my boy gets acid reflux from vet diet wet can foods.
https://www.hillspet.com.au/dog-food/pd-id-low-fat-canine-rice-vegetable-and-chicken-stew-canned

I feed Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato to my boy who has IBD, Wellness is a pretty good brand, Patch normally reacts to dry foods after he eats same food for 2-3 months, he hasnt reacted to Wellness Core Large Breed or Wellness Simple Turkey,
also “Canidae Pure Meadow Senior” is very good, has everything for aging dogs, its 10.80% max fat…
There’s “Artemis Fresh Mix” Weight Management/Senior its 6%- fat, 3-4% fiber but it has grains, my boy was doing sloppy Mr whippy poos on Artemis, I’m pretty sure he cant eat barley, it causes sloppy yellow poos…
There’s also “Annamaet Lean” kibble alot of dogs who have Pancreatitis do well on Annamaet Lean…
Have you joined “Canine Pancreatitis Support group” look in their “Files” Pancreas Low Fat dog foods pdf.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/

[Susan]

Hi Joanne,
is this the Holistic Select Lamb Meal & Rice formula he’s eating?
https://www.holisticselect.com.au/dog/adult-health-lamb-meal-recipe
its the only Holistic Select formula that has Lamb…
Holistic Select have changed all their formula’s, they have stopped making a few of their grain formula’s & made them grain free now, but they’re high in Legumes…

Purina, Hills & Royal Canine spray their dry foods right at the end of being made, this makes the kibble more tasty & smell delicious so the dog eats them, where Holitic Select spray their probiotics & Vonn probably not use to this smell, in time he’s get use to the weird smell…
I’d buy either tin tuna or tin Salmon in spring water, I drain the spring water out then I put fish in container, I mix in some boil sweet potato pieces mash & mix & feed for lunch, I have to mix in Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM joint powder now with Patches meal for his hip.. 🙁
I bet he’ll love the Holistic Select Lamb kibbles or another dry food that he won’t eat, after you add the tuna or salmom, the tuna or salmon is very small so after you mash he fish it sticks to the kibbles, so when he goes to lick the fish up he licks up the whole kibbles….

There’s the Holistic Select Large/Giant Breed Adult formula, I like it cause it has Pork Meal in it, alot of dry dog foods are adding Fish Meal further down te ingredient list, I prefer Pork Meal + Patch does really well on Pork…
These are the Ingredients in Holitsic Select Large/Giant Breed Formula no Barley.
Chicken Meal, Rice, Oatmeal, Oats, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Pork Meal, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Flaxseed, Pumpkin, Cranberries, Apples, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Papayas, Choline Chloride, Blueberries, Pomegranates, Vitamin E
https://www.holisticselect.com.au/dog/large-giant-breed-adult-health.

Wellness have a new “grain” dry kibble called Wellness “Healthy Balance”
I bought a small bag of the “Healthy Balance Adult Chicken” formula cause it has Pork Meal 2nd ingredient..
Chicken Meal, Pork Meal, Brown Rice, Oatmeal, Barley, Rice, Peas, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Brewers Dried Yeast, Ground Flaxseed, Dried Tomato Pomace, Salmon Oil,
I didn’t see the word “BARLEY” aaaarrrrrrrhhhhhh, I just saw “NEW”, Pork Meal & Cheap lol
Patch loves it, I have to add 1/3 cup new & mix with 3/4 cup Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato formula to keep his poos firm & to stop him scratching himself after he eats the Wellness Healthy balance kibble, he’s definitely sensitive to Barley, he started his bum surfing on the carpet again, lucky I only got the small bag..

Scroll down the “Healthy Balance” is down the bottom
https://wellnesspetfood.com.au/dog-wellness/dry-recipes/
these are the only Wellness products we get now, Wellness is only sold thru Pet Barn no one else sells Wellness so Pet Barn must have some deal with Wellness..

Have you tried any new Chicken formula’s again?
there’s so many dry foods that have Chicken that would probably agree with him, there’s “Eagle Pack” Large/Giant Breed formula & Lamb Meal & Brown Rice looks good but Eagle Pack uses barley…
http://www.eaglepack.com/product-orignal-dog.aspx?product=83#.XCgzC_ZuI5s

I would try a chicken formula again it was probably something wrong with the Purina Pro Plan or an ingredient didn’t agree with him or he might have just been unwell at that time & had problems with the chicken Pro Plan formula?..

[Susan]

Hi Heather,

“Canidae Pure Meadow” senior but its grain free, its high protein 28-30%
low fat-10.80%, Low Carbs…
Why dont you want to feed grain free?? not all grain free foods are bad & involved in the Low taurine in some dogs??..

Patch has a square left hip socket, vets have never seen anything like this, they said he would have been born with it & would of had Arthritis from a pup, he started running on 3 legs about 1 year ago age 9yrs old….
Then I started to feed him
“Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult, its high in Protein-38%max, low/med-Fat-13% & high in Glucosamine/Chondroitin, low Carbs -30%, he stopped running on 3 legs..
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed
Then I rotate & feed “Canidae Pure Meadow” Senior,
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-meadow-dry-formula

Canidae Senior is pretty good, it has 3 meat proteins 1st, 2nd & 3rd ingredients like the Wellness Core then a carb Sweet potatoes…

Canidae ALS Platinum Senior has grains
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-platinum-dry-formula

Wellness has their “Wellness Complete Health Senior” grain formula but Patch cant eat barley gets diarrhea also this Wellness formula is high in carbs over 50%… I want to keep off the weight off his joints..

Look at “Farmina”

His Vet said we can give “Cartrophen Vet” Injections, they are given weekly for 4 weeks
this way no NSAID drugs are being taken & causing stomach problems/ulcers….
Patch has IBD & suffers with Acid Reflux so he cant take no meds for Arthritis..

Dosage and Usage

[Susan]

Hi Vanessa,

My boy has IBD & Seasonal Environment Allergies..
Have a look at dry food that has Sweet Potatoes & Potato seem to help dogs when they have diarrhea/sloppy poos & stomach related probems…
Look at

“Canidae Pure Wild Boar” Page 3
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

“Canidae Under The Sun” Large Breed is low in Kcals per cup 328Kcals per cup.
UTS is on Canidae’s first page.

“Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed

“Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/simple-dogs

Wellness Core Large Breed Adult really help my boy when he went down hill with his Allergies causing a bad IBD flare about 1 yr ago, its low Kcals 346 per cup

My boy is eating Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato kibble at the moment, it’s Summer here & the Wellness Simple is for skin & stomach problems & has 1 single meat protein & has limited carbs, the Wellness Simple Turkey Protein % is 26min% -28max%,
lower protein then the Wellness Core formula’s.

Wellness has “Nutrient Profiles PDF” you can see the proper max % fat, protein, fiber, carbs, ingredients etc…

I’d try one of the Wellness Simple formula’s.
Wellness have a palability money back guarantee so if he wont eat it take back & exchange.. Wellness smells pretty good & my cat pinches Patches Wellness Kibbles & she wont eat her meal now the little bugger..

Or look at Raw – Stella & Chewy Patties or Raw Freeze Dried Kibble its like kibble he will lose weight eating a raw diet & might be more interested in his food..
Just stay 14% & under for fat, low carbs & low kcals per cup for weight ..

Start adding Tin Salmon or tin Tuna in Olive Oil, add 2 spoons to his meals, this will encourage him to eat, dogs normally love fishy foods & the Olive Oil will help with his constipation also boil some Pumkin or Sweet Potato pieces freeze them & take them out of freezer as needed they freeze & thaw very well, I put 1 piece of Sweet Potato in micro wave 5-8sec…Pumkin & Sweet Potato settle stomach..

I wonder if he’s getting “acid reflux” 2am?? This is the time acid reflux starts early hours of the morning with dogs, have you tried Zantac or Famotidine a acid reducer? given twice a day 20-30mins before he eats a meal? ask vet can you try it might make him more comfortable thru the night & could be why he’s not keen on eating food he gets bad acid reflux afterwards??
Labs normally LOVE their food… I’d stop the Coconut Oil as Omega oils can cause acid reflux.

[anonymous]

What were the results of his latest annual vet exam? How long ago? Labs within normal limits? Does the dog have a diagnosis regarding gastrointestinal problems?
What did the vet advise?

“but I’m certainly not opposed to another medical check-up. We have a bag of Science Diet Gastro that the vet gave us when we have issues and he does well on it, but I doubt that’s a long-term food”

Some dogs do stay on a prescription food for the rest of their lives.
I would defer to your vet, after all, no one here has examined your dog.

At age 5 a large breed is close to being a senior. Please go see your vet. Further diagnostic testing may be indicated.

[Anonymous]

You’ve fed other dogs raw before right? It’s the same deal but twice the amount per body weight until a year/year and a half. What type of dog is it? With large breed puppies it can be more difficult as you have to make sure you’re giving them the correct calcium phosphorus ratios until atleast 2 years old.

[sara h]

I have a 1 year old husky who is a picky eater with a sensitive stomach. He barely eats his pro plan focus puppy (yesterday he ate maybe a few bites of dog food and today maybe a cup). i can feel his ribs and hip bones pretty easily. i tried changing it to eukanuba LB puppy and it upset his stomach (and he didn’t seem to like it much). fromm also cause vomiting in about 12 hours. i’ve tried mixing in my other dog’s adult food (crave, victor) and he just picks at it. i add vegetable oil and broth to his food but that doesn’t help either. what’s odd is for the first 1-2 months i had him, he ate his food super quick.

is there a large breed puppy wet food i could try mixing in? any recommendations on other brands of food to try?

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by sara h.

[Arlene L]

Thanks for posting your list of recommended foods for large breed puppies.
I have included 6 Healthiest Human Foods for Dog‎s here, could you please check this? is it any wrong or incorrect?
https://www.rabbitgoo.com/blog/6-healthiest-human-foods-you-could-feed-your-dog/

• This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by Arlene L.

[Susan]

Read the lastest Study “observational study” its not a complete study, you need years & years or research too do a complete study.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0209112&fbclid=IwAR31QNTyUhrXpuy8P0zs-yC81yJ7jnyUgtYuXZrIdBYxLwuq0R2JXecY2ck#sec008

Rodney Habibs
“Conclusions from the Study”

Certain diets and diet characteristics were associated with the development of taurine deficiency. Taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy in golden retrievers is likely multifactorial, including a combination of dietary, metabolic, and genetic factors.”

Researchers have no idea what is causing the sudden surge of DCM and according to the Pet Food Industry, it could be 5 years until someone figures it out.

The post is to not call out brands, but to be aware, informed, and make better decisions with each study that is being published and by “doing your own research”. – Rodney Habib

Rodney goes on to write,
Finally, no truer words spoken than this:

“The point of the study should have been to point out we have a serious problem with the “Complete and Balanced” claim on pet food labels. The study does prove Complete and Balanced pet foods were absolutely not ‘Complete’ for the dogs in this study (and many, many more dogs not in this study with low taurine blood levels and diagnosed with diet-related DCM).” – Susan Thixton

Rodney Habib also owns a Golden Retriever Sammy, Rodney post everything he finds straight away on his on his f/b page.
https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib

Here’s link below you can see all the brands used in the study data:

DCM Study Misses the Big Picture

in link above you will read-
AAFCO feeding trials require NO final taurine level blood work of dogs that ‘passed’ the feeding trial. In other words, a pet food certified by AAFCO feeding trials provides absolutely no guarantee the diet would NOT result in low taurine for dogs consuming it (leading to heart disease).
The point of the study should have been to point out we have a serious problem with all Complete and Balanced claims on pet food labels. The study does prove Complete and Balanced pet foods were absolutely not ‘Complete’ for the dogs in this study (and many, many more dogs not in this study with low taurine blood levels and diagnosed with diet-related DCM).
Study authors should have contacted AAFCO and requested discussions to truly fix this serious problem. I’ve not read or heard any mention of study authors attempting to ‘fix’ the problem.
Study authors should be at every AAFCO meeting. Every single veterinary nutritionist should be present at every AAFCO meeting and advocate for improved Nutrient Profiles and feeding trial requirements.

Below is a paragragh from “Taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy in golden retrievers fed commercial diets” Study

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0209112&fbclid=IwAR31QNTyUhrXpuy8P0zs-yC81yJ7jnyUgtYuXZrIdBYxLwuq0R2JXecY2ck#sec008

The nutritional adequacy statement for each diet was assessed to determine if there was a complete and balanced claim and if so, the method of substantiation for the claim (formulation or feeding trials) per the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) [32]. If diets did not undergo a feeding trial, but the pet food label claimed the diet was formulated to meet AAFCO guidelines, it was determined whether or not this was confirmed via formulations or analysis of the finished product based on the World Small Animal Veterinary Association (WSAVA) recommendations [33]. Research included a comprehensive evaluation of the pet food bag, the manufacturer’s website, and phone communications with representatives from both the supplier and manufacturer when available.
The ingredient list for each diet were recorded and assessed. Whether or not the diet was advertised as grain-free was recorded, and diets were considered to have legumes (peas or pea components, lentils, beans, or chickpeas) as a primary ingredient if included in the first five listed ingredients.

Diets that met AAFCO guidelines were not balanced properly, also they are concentrating
on G/F BEG Diets that have
legumes (peas or pea components, lentils, beans, or chickpeas) in the the first 5 ingredients,
again NO potatoes or sweet potato were mentioned..

Grain free diets were fine until these BEG diets came out around 2015-2016
BEG G/F Diets have Limited Ingreddients & are lower in meat proteins & higher in Legume plant proteins. When you read the Protein % its high & you think your dog is getting a high meat protein but he isnt he’s getting a high Plant protein diet & it looks like these legumes are blocking the dog from absorbing taurine in his diet causing low taurine for some dogs but not all dogs…

Not all Grain Free diets are bad, the Grain Free diets that have Potato & Sweet Potatoes & are balanced properly are fine same as the Grain Free Potato Vet Diets they are fine & have been good for years with NO low Taurine problems..

So if you have a dog who has IBD, Food Sensitivities/Allergies who can not eat grain in their diet or doesn’t do too well on grain diets, & you dont know what to do either ask your vet can you put your dog on a G/F Vet Diet or look for grain free diet that has potato or sweet potato G/F Diets that are high in meat proteins that have 2-3 meat proteins in the 1st, 2nd & 3rd ingredients & check is the diet balanced properly, look for brands like Wellness who post
“Nutrient Profiles” on their site with every single formula.
The Nutrient Profile for this product is also available for download. GET THE PDF
& you can see the whole NUTRIENT PROFILE for the food your feeding or thinking of feeding.
Here’s the AAFCO NUTRIENT PROFILE FOR CANINE MAINTENANCE for Wellness Core Large Breed adult formula. There’s also a Core Small Breed formula.. another good brand is “Farmina Vet Life” if your dog isnt do too well on a grain diet & has bad diarrhea. https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/sites/default/files/media/documents/CORE%20Dog%20Large%20Breed%20Q3%202018.pdf

Stick with dog food brands where they show the whole Nutrient Profile for that formula or email the pet food company & ask for the full Nutrient Profile for this product, if they will not email Nutrient Profile then look for another brand..

[Susan]

Hi Justin,
Feed a large Breed Puppy formula as they are formulated for growing large breed puppies bones, you dont want their bones growing too quickly..

“Dog Food Advisor” has a section on Large Breed Puppies..
whats best to feed, a good read.. /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

I like “Wellness” dog foods
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-puppy-large-breed-puppy

& “Canidae” dog foods.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-large-breed-turkey-meal-brown-rice-dry-formula

Wellness has been around over 100yrs so I’d say they’d know what they are doing when it comes to dogs & cats..
Make sure you add fresh meaty bone & fresh ingredients aswell to his meal so he gets a variety of foods & use to eating a few different foods….. this is when dogs end up with food sensitivities cause when they were pups they only ate the 1 dry food & never had a variety of foods, this strengthens their immune system (Stomach) & gets them use to different ingredients….

[anonymous]

These two look good to me.

https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-large-breed-puppy-gold-food-for-dogs

https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-focus-puppy-large/dp/52425

For science based veterinary medicine go here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/nutrition-in-large-breed-puppies/
You can use the search engine at that site to look up “nutrition” for more informative articles.
I have found the site very helpful. Good luck with your puppy.

[Justin L]

We are welcoming a female puppy Samoyed soon, and I just wanted an opinion on whether to feed her Large Breed Puppy food or regular puppy food. The parents are 54 Lbs (mom) and 60 Lbs (dad). From what I seen that is right around the cusp of Large breed and Medium breed.

Also would like to know any dog foods that you guys recommend. I was about to go with Orijen but noticed that their is a lawsuit filed in California, but its hard to tell what is noise or truly factual. For reference I am located in Canada which may affect the choice of foods. Thanks all in advance for your time.

[Susan]

Hi,

Look at

*Canidae Grain Free PURE Ancestral Red Meat Formula
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-red-meat-formula-with-lamb-goat-wild-boar/

* Earthborn Holistics – grain free
https://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/dog-food-formulas

* Wellness Core

It’s ashame you can’t have Chicken are you 100% sure Dog cant eat chicken done proper elimination diet?..
I feed “Wellness Core Large Breed” Adult formula.
Its high in protein-38.14%’max, Fiber-5.99%max
scroll down to “Nutrient Profiles” then click on “Get The PDF” it shows the proper % of Protein, Fat, Fiber, Carbs etc look at “Dry Matter Basis”
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed

[Susan]

Spy Car wrote:

@Jill b,
all kibbles are essentially cereal-based foods. This type of dog food did not exist prior to WWII. In the aftermath of the war, dog food manufacturers discovered they could use the same extrusion machinery they used to produce human breakfast cereals to make nuggets for dog food. But to make the product shelf-stable and extrudable required using high percentages of starches.

Your vet is quite correct on the negative effects of extra weight on Goldens. No dog does well with extra weight, but Goldens are particularly likely to become obese and to suffer with muscular and joint issues as a result. Goldens ought to be lean. I see many Goldens in my life and to see one carrying the optimal weight is extraordinarily rare. The results of this obesity is clear when one sees the large number of Goldens that are crippled by ACL tears, bad hips, muscle tears, and other dehabilitating issues.

It is very sad to see. And unnecessary.

Most of the problem stems from high-carb low-protein low-fat diets.

Feeding a dog carbs as a primary energy source will do two very bad things. One, it will almost certainly lead to obesity. Two, carb-metabolism actively undermines a dog’s stamina. Carb-heavy diets turn normally active breeds (like Goldens) into couch potatoes, as carbohydrate burning does not provide a steady and sustained release of energy to the dog, rather it is a boon-and-bust.

When dogs are fed a high fat (high-protein) diet, fat-metabolism proves a dog with almost unlimited energy supplies. Aerobic capacity soars.

A Golden Retriever should be an athletic and vital beast. Not a couch potato that sleeps all day with a perhaps 20-minute window of activity. Such a lifestyle will seriously harm a Golden and all one needs to do is look around at the condition of most Goldens in this country.

I have a Vizsla, another sporting breed. Over the past 4.5 years (since 8 weeks) I’ve fed him a balance PMR style raw diet to eliminate carbohydrates from his diet. The results have been stellar. He’s very lean, highly energetic (while calm), has muscles on top of muscles, clean teeth, and is the picture of health. Last year I met a raw-fed Golden. I was amazed (but not entirely surprised) to see an ultra-fit, lean, muscular Golden Retriever who was tireless and free of the almost universal warning signs of impending injuries.

I know many people are not up to feeding a raw diet. If that’s the case look for food with the highest possible percentages of protein and fat and the least amount of carbohydrates. With high-calorie rations one needs to feed far less food (a positive on many levels).

Since dogs metabolize fats brilliantly they are more active and tend to drop body fat (so long as they are not overfed). Activity and sufficient protein will keep the dog’s muscular development strong which reduces stress on joints and tendons.

Goldens, like Labs, are particularly vulnerable to the negative consequences of high-carb kibble diets. Your vet is spot on here. Taking off weight is extraordinarily difficult when one feeds a high percentage of non-essential carbohydrates. Restricting amounts when the rations are already low in protein and fat means that essential items are reduced in the diet to maintain a place for empty calories that undermine vitality.

Some of the formulas discussed here would virtually guarantee major health consequences in your dogs future. That’s the unvarnished truth.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Bill

[haleycookie]

First is the 4health food you have her on a puppy formula? Second, at 40 lbs at only 4 months she sounds like she’s going to be a large breed dog so a large breed puppy food would be best. I always recommend wellness core puppy or wellness complete health large breed puppy. If she’s just big for her age instinct raw boost puppy is good for medium dog breeds.
As for the cooking chicken and rice, I wouldn’t do that. At least don’t make it anymore than a treat. Chicken and rice isn’t a balanced meal and shouldn’t make up more than 10% of the puppies diet. A canned food like Merrick, instinct, wellness core would be acceptable and good quality and properly balanced for a dog. If you plan to make the canned more than 10% of the diet then a puppy canned food would be necessary for proper nutrition.

[Susan]

Hi,
How many pounds should Minnie be when she is fully grown, what breed is she??
My boy is an English Staffordshire Bull Terrier he is 18kgs = 40lbs, I only feed him around 2 & 1/2 cups when its his “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult formula – 346Kcals per cup kibble a day + cooked lunch + 1-2 Freeze dried Mussels or when he eats “Canidae Pure Wild” 454Kcals per cup I feed 1 & 1/2 cups kibble a day + cooked lunch or “Canidae Pure Meadow” – 409Kcals per cup, he gets around 1 & 1/2 – 2 cups kibble a day + something different for lunch + Green Lipped Mussels 1-2 a day.

Read the Kcals per cupthe kibble formula you’re feeding it’s probably on bag of kibble or online on the 4Health site or email 4Health for any information & work out how many Kcals a day she should be eating & add cooked food on top, I know Patch should be eating around 1000Kcals a day but I feed a bit under now cause he’s a senior & yes add fresh ingredents to her kibble or separate as a meal, this will help put on weight..
kibble swells up in the stomach makes you feel fuller so best to feed 3-4 smaller meals a day 7am, 12pm, 5pm 8pm so if you have a large breed dog best to feed a large breed kibble, they are formulated for large breed puppy or Adult large dog intestinal tract, (Bloat)
My dog has IBD & does really well on a large breed kibble, the Kcals are lower 346kcals, the higher the Kcals the more dense is the kibble & they dont need to eat as much kibble…

So maybe look for a higher Kcal per cup kibble? “Canidae” is higher in Kcals over 400Kcals so she only needs about 3-4 cups a day depending on formula?.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

The “Canidae All Life Stages Multi-protein” Formula is 468Kcals per cup your dog would only need 2-4 cups a day when a Puppy then when she’s a Adult she’s needs less around 2 cups per day depending on her breed??
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-dry-formula/

Cook – boiled potato or boil sweet potato pieces cool then freeze Sweet Potato freezes really well & thaws good & quickly or I put in micro wave 15sec to thaw, today for lunch I feed Patch 2 pieces of Sweet Potato mixed/mashed with cooked 2 scrambled eggs, I cooked egg in a non stick frying pan, I buy tin Salmon in spring water drain the water & add sweet potato, I feed 4-5 smaller meals a day you can buy a kibble machine that lets out the kibble amount you want thru the day, I give 1/2 a cup at certain times thru the day…
Raw meaty bone would be excellent & gives her something to do all day chewing on a meaty bone from a butcher…
Here’s 2 different Canine Calculator links it gives you a ruff idea how much dry kibble you should be feeding..

https://petsci.co.uk/canine-calorie-calculator/ or

http://www.german-shepherd-lore.com/dog-food-calculator.html

[Susan]

Hi Jane,
I feed “Wellness Core” Large Breed Adult to my English Staffy its very high in Glucosamine,
he is 10yrs old & has a square left hip socket & was running on 3 legs & he’d lift his back left leg up while he ran, but after eating the Wellness Core L/B for 1 month he has stopped running on 3 legs, he isnt as stiff in the morning like he use to be, like a young pup again & the Wellness has helped with his IBD aswell, Wellness also make a Wellness Core Small Breed, Wellness Core Senior but I dont think the Glucosamine is as high as the Wellness Core Large Breed formula is – 750 mg/kg & Chondroitin Sulfate- 250 mg/kg.. Wellness have their PDF under “Nutrient Profiles” it tells you everything, percentage etc in their kibbles, if a formula doesn’t have the PDF just send email to Wellness & ask them your question, I think the Small Breed Formula doesnt have the PDF I’ve emailed Wellness & told them they said it was getting added…
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed
I know you can buy the human grade Glucosamine & Chonroitin & add to their meals, I use to give my boxer years ago, also give 1 x Krill Oil capsule daily with 1 of there meals or buy the tin sardines in spring water & add 1/4 of a can daily to 1 of their meals..
Green Lipped Mussels, I buy the Freeze Dried, Green Lipped Mussels & give Patch 1-2 mussels a day as a treat, depends how big they’re, the cat loves them aswell

When Patch had Xray last year the vet sugested he gets “Cartrohen Vet” weekly injection they get the injection for 4 weeks, its cheap $20-$25 per injection & the vet nurse does it cause Patch has IBD he cant take alot of medications cause of his stomach & NSAID drugs can cause stomach ulcers, my neighbour was getting the Cartrophen Vet injections for his 17yr old Jack Russel & gee what a differences it made..

Cartrophen Vet is given by injection to treat degenerative joint disease or arthritis in dogs. It has been found that it provides relief from pain, stiffness and lameness as effectively as the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs commonly used in veterinary medicine.

Follow “Steve Brown” & “Rodney Habib” on their facebook pages & “Planet Paws”
also
Join this f/b group it’s new, run by Dr Karen Becker, Rodney Habib & Susan Garrett
they have some really good healthy balance raw recipes, Golden Paste, frozen Coconut Oil treats etc, just becareful with Coconut Oil & Tumeric or Curcumin can cause upset stomach add small amounts at first.
I like foods high in Omega 3, Salmon- add 1-2 spoons to meal, Sardines-1/4 tin daily, Almonds-3 a day, Green lipped mussels-2mussels.. Google foods high in Omega 3 fatty acids.
Here’s their Group
“Life with Dogs and Cats – Health, Training & Research”
https://www.facebook.com/groups/lifewithdogsandcats/?ref=direct

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jill B-
I’m glad you are taking the advice to avoid grain free foods. Golden Retrievers seem to be more prone to heart issues. You don’t have to be a scientist. You just need to trust brands that are formulated by scientists with degrees in veterinary nutrition. Believe it or not, most aren’t. I switched my dogs to a Purina ProPlan large breed recipe. Other brands that fit this category are: Royal Canin, Eukanuba, Iams, and Hills. The cardiologist from UCDavis that is leading a research team feeds his Golden Royal Canin. It’s a bit expensive for me as I have multiple pets. Best wishes!

[Susan]

Hi,

How’s his bum?? did you apply a cold press, lay him on his side & relax him, apply & hold a few cold baby wipes on his bum for a few mins, then apply some Bepanthen soothing baby cream..
or get some Betadine & soak a few tissues in Antiseptic Betadine solution & hold on his bum for a few mintues & watch he doesnt lick, the Betadine will relieve his itch & reddness..

The food has to agree with your boy, what you like & think is good, these ingredients may not work aswell for your boy, or what might work for 1 person dog may not work for your boy & when a food doesn’t agree with someones dog they normally post bad things about that brand of food & its not the brand of food that’s bad, 90% of the time it’s the person dog who’s sensitive to an ingredient lol..

He seems to be having problems with Purina, time to move onto another brand, you normally know within 1 month if a food is going to work for the dog…

“Victor” has their Select Lamb Meal & Brown Rice.
alot of people say good things about Victor, the “Victor Select Chicken Meal & Brown Rice” formula has the best ingredients out of all the Select formula’s & it has no Oatmeal or Barley, look for LID formula’s that have no Oats or Barley, no ingredients that are in his Purina formula..Maybe no Lamb aswell??
Can he eat Beef, Pork, Chicken?

I’d try the Victor Select Chicken Meal & Brown Rice it has Lamb Meal in it aswell. Chicken formula’s seem to have more meat & better ingredients.
https://victorpetfood.com/products/chicken-meal-brown-rice-formula

“Nutro Wholesome Essentials” Large Breed Adult Farm Raised Chicken
The LID Lamb & Rice formula worked for Patch, years ago, he was doing small firm poos only 1 or 2 poos a day. It only haa about 3-4 ingredients

“Farmina” Lamb & Blueberry Adult Medium
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop/dog-food/n&d-ancestral-grain-canine/120-lamb-&-blueberry-adult-medium.html

“Eagle Pack” Large/Giant breed Adult.
http://www.eaglepack.com/product-orignal-dog.aspx?product=85#.XAH-hvZuI5s

“Pro Pac Ultimates” Lamb Meal & Rice.
Made by Earthborn Holistic
https://www.propacultimates.com/dog-food/lamb-meal-brown-rice-formula/

“Sportmix Wholesome” Large Breed Adult.
Made By Earthborn Holistic
alot of people have good results if their dog has sensitive stomach/blowel..
https://www.sportmix.com/dog-food/wholesomes/wholesomes-large-breed-chicken-meal-rice-formula/

“Holistic Select” Lamb Meal & Rice
but I think Holistic Select has way too many ingredients & probiotics, too many ingredients is opening the door for more reactions your boy might have & you wont know which ingredient it is..

You can always return the kibble or you might “find” a formula that agrees with him??
You wont know until you try, maybe look at a Chicken Formula, I wonder if he’s reacting to the lamb but there’s not much lamb in the Purina formula he’s eating, its seems to have more Oatmeal & Barley then Lamb, this is probably the problem??
His bum would be painful & sore so they lick & the more they lick & lick the same spot their tongue strips their skin..
I had a cat years ago, he had a small sore, probably was a Hot Spot, he licked it that much I had to take him to the vet to be stitched up, he made the sore triple the size..

I came home from shopping last week & Mr Patch had licked & licked his back paw inbetween his toes, he could not walk for 2 days limping on 3 legs & had to wear a shoe on his sore paw, the nut gave himself a red ulcer from licking in the same spot for 1 hour… Grass Allergies

[crazy4cats]

You’re welcome. I also originally switched to Fromm, but now have made the switch to Purina ProPlan. I have recently learned that Fromm does not meet WSAVA guidelines and falls more under the Boutique category. Having large golden retriever/lab mix dogs, I am not taking any chances at all. Their breed seems to be more at risk.

The brands that I know of that meet the guidelines are: Royal Canin, Purina, Hills, and Eukanuba. Also, have learned that you absolutely cannot judge a food by its ingredient label.

[Susan]

Hi Kyle,
I’ll bump up yor post.

What did you end up feeding your pup?
I just had a looked at the Farmina N&D Ancestral Grain Canine, Lamb & Blueberry Puppy medium & maxi formula, the Calcium -1.30%; Phosphorus-0.90%…
https://www.farmina.com/us/eshop/dog-food/n&d-ancestral-grain-canine/401-lamb-&-blueberry-puppy-medium-&-maxi.html

The N&D Pumpkin Grain-Free Canine Lamb & Blueberry Puppy Medium & Maxi formula you post about has had the guaranteed analysis for Calcium & Phosphorus taken down, I cant find it… Maybe your right the calcium is too high.
Pit love knows more about growing large breed puppies..

[Kyle D]

I contacted Farmina and or their Pumpkin Puppy dog food that are stating calcium of 1.8% and phosphorus of 1.4% at maximum. This seems awfully out of line for a large breed puppy. Which they said this meets guidelines and is suitable for a large breed. Can I get some more insight into this? Im concerned about the calcium.