[muddy little mutt]

Okay thanks :)..I really think it’s environmental because she had a flare up after playing around outside. She has dry skin in the winter but no itching. I’ve been changing up her food so I don’t think it’s a food allergy.

[LoveMyFurBabies]

Patty, thank you very much for the links! I have spent a lot of time looking over everything and I think I will give Fromm a try….using dry and wet food. Perhaps I can get freeze-dried occasionally to give them some variation. As you said, it is expensive. Thanks again!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Have you tried mixing canned food with his dry? This can usually pique the appetite of picky dogs. For a dog like him that looses interest in foods so quickly a rotation diet may be a good idea – if you bought smaller bags you could keep 2 or 3 different foods on hand and switch between every meal, maybe this would keep him interested.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi acs379 –

Nope, there’s nothing specific about excess fat that will cause developmental issues. Many veterinarians and breeders just tend to recommend lower fat foods because they generally have a lower calorie count per cup and they feel that it will be less likely that the dog will consume too many calories. However, as long as portion sizes are controlled it doesn’t pose an issue. My experience with my hounds has actually been that I have difficulty keeping weight on them – they tend to be on the thin side if anything, so for me it’s been really important to use more calorie-dense foods.

First off I would like to say that it is wonderful that your breeder is recommending the inclusion of fresh foods. Many breeders and veterinarians don’t recognize the importance of fresh foods. Fresh meat, plain yogurt and eggs are wonderful additions to dry kibble – they boost the protein levels and the species appropriateness. Adding eggs and boneless meat will also help to reduce the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the food as they’re high in phosphorus but low in calcium. Just be sure to keep the unbalanced extras to approximately 20% or less of the meal or you could skew the calcium to phosphorus ratio too much and potentially throw off the balance of the other nutrients in the food. Canned foods and dehydrated foods make great toppers too, if feeding a balanced canned or dehydrated food with appropriate calcium levels you can add as much as you want, if feeding a food with higher calcium levels or an unbalanced canned topper follow the 20% rule. Tripe makes an excellent topper – especially for large and giant breed puppies, the reason being that tripe has has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (1:1) but very low concentrations of both minerals (only about 0.3% if I recall correctly). So feeding tripe will dilute the overall calcium levels without the risk of throwing of the c:p ratio. When Gertie was a pup she ate THK and I generally fed her 4 C. THK + 1 can Tripett (canned green tripe) daily (and some fresh additions like eggs, plain yogurt and tinned sardines a few times a week). Mabel started right off on raw and ate raw green tripe as about 25% of her diet for the first 6 months to keep her calcium levels low. Another benefit to tripe (if you can get it raw) is that it’s loaded with probiotics and digestive enzymes.

I generally recommend not supplementing with vitamins (unless per veterinarian recommendation) for those feeding a balanced commercial food, however vitamin c and vitamin b are water soluble vitamins so they are not harmful in excess, if you wanted to add them it shouldn’t cause any problems. The problems arise with certain minerals and fat soluble vitamins as these can be harmful when consumed in excess. Because balanced commercial foods already contain vitamins and minerals adding additional vitamins (fat soluble) and certain minerals could potentially result in toxicity. I would definitely not supplement with vitamin d or calcium – vitamin d is a fat soluble vitamin and adding calcium would likely throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and high levels of calcium are what need to be avoided for large and giant breed puppies.

Now onto discussing the Science Diet Adult Maintenance recommendation. I see many breeders recommend putting large breed puppies directly onto an adult maintenance food and this is extremely poor advice (imo) and often based on faulty logic. The reason breeders typically recommend adult foods is because adult foods tend to be lower in fat and calories than puppy foods – from the previous discussion we know that this isn’t an issue as long as portions are controlled. Feeding a puppy a food designated for adult maintenance puts the puppy at risk of not getting enough fat, protein or certain vitamins and minerals. SD is extremely low in protein – to be honest I wouldn’t even feel comfortable feeding a food that low in protein to an adult dog, let alone a growing puppy. I don’t ever recommend feeding foods with less than 30% protein (for adults or puppies) and the SD only has 24.5% protein. Also, if you go to SD’s website and read the product description for the adult maintenance food you’ll notice they state “Not recommended for puppies, pregnant or lactating dogs” – this is because dogs in their growth phase or in the stressful phase of pregnancy or lactation need high levels of protein, higher levels of fat and higher levels of certain vitamins and minerals. I personally wouldn’t ever feed or recommend any Science Diet Products. I would recommend checking out some 4 or 5 star foods with appropriate calcium levels. It’s also better if you rotate foods, don’t stick with just one – dogs need variety. I’d say at a bare minimum have three go to brands (preferably made by different companies and with different protein sources) and rotate through them. Rotational feeding has benefits including fostering a diverse population of gut flora, mitigating the short comings of feeding any one single food (no food is perfect) and providing alternatives in the event of a recall or formula change.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[acs379]

Hound Dog Mom, thank you for being so thorough in your answer! It clears things up quite a bit; the article discussed briefly that the fat percentage should be at a lower level but did not go into specifics as for the health implications of excess fat. I just wanted to confirm that there was nothing about excess fat SPECIFICALLY that would cause health issues (i.e. like excess calcium). I’m thinking I can start with Nature’s Variety Instinct and Orijen, because they both have good nutritional stats, good ingredients from what I understand, and seem to be used with success by other owners who have posted. If you have any other suggestions for foods, please let me know! I was planning on supplementing with fresh food (i.e. hardboiled eggs, yogurt) and canned food (i.e. tripe) as well as digestive enzymes to help aid in the digestion of the dry food.

I do have a few follow-up questions. Here’s my situation: I’m getting a German Shepherd puppy in a few weeks (yay!). It’s coming from a well-known breeder, who made some nutritional suggestions based on years of experience with multiple vets. They suggest, “Puppies from 8 weeks to 1 year should be fed Science Diet Maintenance, fresh meat, yogurt, and boiled eggs.” However, Science Diet Maintenance has extremely LOW ratings on this site, as well as negative reviews from other posters on this site. This really concerns me, and I’m curious as to why they would make that particular suggestion.

In addition, they make suggestions for vitamins as well: 1,000 mg Vitamin C a day and a multi-vitamin and a B complex capsule once a day. In the research I did, the only supplements mentioned were calcium and Vitamin D. Do you see any issue with giving the suggested 3 vitamins?

Thanks so much for your help! You’ve provided so much valuable information and have also had to guide further research for me.

[pugmomsandy]

I put it on the list. It’s a long list! Wish it were gluten free though.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve never heard of it but it looks like a pretty good food. I’d say 4 1/2 or 5 stars. I would suggest finding out a bit more about the company and where it’s manufactured before feeding it.

[somebodysme]

That yellow discharge could be infection and that smells nasty too. It really to me sounds like food allergies. The allergies start at the feet. I saw it explained why but of course I can’t remember now…like that’s where dogs sweat so that’s where the toxins come out? I actually had two vets tell me it was most likely food allergies and to try something without grains and without chicken. My vet had to give her an antibiotic shot for the infection in her paws…it was that bad. To me it smelled like stinky cheese…kind of like cheetoes or parmesan cheese which I thought was yeast. I just think it’s best to go at least to the vet so they can tell you if it’s yeast or not and if there’s infection…it won’t heal up without antibiotic. At least if it’s not yeast, you won’t have that to worry with. My vet suggested a venison or duck limited ingredient food and also said that fish would be ok too. If it’s yeast…one of the few dry kibbles I’ve seen that is supposed to be ok for yeast is Nutrisca. I would definitely stay away from chicken until you figure it out. My dogs symptoms were swollen infected paws, itching bald spots in various places on her body, watering eyes, pink inside to ears with some brown discharge and itching in them, just a whole lot of scratching going on all over but mostly the paws. She was having to wear a cone because she was chewing her paws. I really wasted a lot of time trying to self diagnose because believe me I am so anti-doctor it’s ridiculous. HA! If the vet tells you it’s food allergies, you do not have to buy their dog food! When I made a face at the suggestion of IAMS RX…my vet suggested a venison or duck grain free food of my liking…HAHAHA! But she had to have a shot to clear the paw infection! Believe me, I am kicking myself for not taking her to the vet sooner! It would have saved us both a lot of pain and suffering!

[starbright26]

Well thats the assumption I was going on as well but their website has several varieties of grain-free dry foods listed…?? I love the idea of this if their grain-free line is up to par with the rest of their products.. I do not want to blindly try a new food though.

[LoveMyFurBabies]

Hi all,

I am completely overwhelmed with all this information, but so grateful to have discovered this website! I HAVE to make a change in my dogs’ food. My 7 year old Husky started having diarrhea last week and vomited one day. I took him to the vet Monday, who said she noticed bad bacteria in his stool and prescribed an antibiotic. Today (Wednesday) I see another recall for Innova (salmonella), which is what my husky eats, so I called the vet to ask is this could have been the cause of his symptoms. She said yes and prescribed another med.
Obviously, I’m done with Innova. I was thinking about switching to Fromm, but I really want to do what is best for my dogs. I recently moved to the middle of nowhere, where the only place to buy dog food is Walmart. No way.
What I’m thinking of doing is ordering Fromm dry food online, and topping it with some canned foods — I can get different flavors to keep them happy and that won’t upset their tummies, right? (I have two dogs – the husky and a shepherd mix approx 50 lbs.) I was also thinking of adding in carrots…should I clean them and feed raw or cook them first? The yogurt sounds like a good idea, too. Would it be better to purchase dehydrated or freeze-dried food and top that with some fresh goodies? I have never heard of being able to purchase dehydrated/freeze-dried food so that’s a totally new concept to me.
Thank you so much for any thoughts or input. I want my dogs to live the longest healthiest life possible.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi gsdmommy89 –

I think the new formulation for Orijen Large Breed Puppy should be okay. For some reason Orijen’s website isn’t working for me right now but I believe the minimum and maximum put it at right around the 3.5 g./1,000 kcal. level (maybe slightly lower than 3.5 g. basing the calculation on the min and slightly more basing it on the max).

The Earthborn Primitive Natural formula is too high in calcium but I believe Meadow Feast and Coastal Catch are okay if you’d be interested in either of those formulas. The calorie content for the Earthborn Primitive Naturals is 3,800 kcal. per kg. of food or approximately 445 kcal. per cup.

The calcium levels in Nutrisca are too high: 1.7105% for the chicken formula, 2.2294% for the salmon formula and 2.1516% for the lamb formula.

I really like Nature’s Variety Instinct and they do have two formulas with appropriate calcium levels – the Rabbit Meal formula and the Limited Ingredient Turkey Meal formula.

All of the Merrick formulas are too high in calcium to the best of my knowledge. When I last emailed Merrick they had just reformulated their grain-free line and did not yet have the lab results back with the nutrient values but I was told the calcium levels were expected to be roughly the same as in the old formulas and all the values in the old formulas were around 2.0%.

I think Orijen would be a great food to try, I think it’s one of the better dry foods available. The best recommendation I could make would be to find several quality foods that are high in animal-based protein and rotate through them. It’s also a good idea to mix in canned or fresh foods if possible – this will boost the protein levels and provide some less processed food for your pup. In my opinion it’s very important that dogs get variety and have some fresh foods incorporated into their meals occasionally. Once your pup is around 8 months old and through the rapid growth phase, I wouldn’t worry so much about calcium but when the pup is young and growing rapidly it’s important. So some of the foods you mentioned (Nutrisca, Earthborn Primitive Naturals, Merrick, etc.) would be fine to try later on but I’d wait until the pup is at least 8 months old.

Good luck 🙂

[cinner00]

I posted earlier accidentally as a reply. Still learning the forum. I am looking for a new dry food for my 12yr old Golden Lab who now has arthritis. He’s a big boy and he also has a sensitive stomach now. I can’t have anything that will put on pounds. He is not very active any more. Although our new pup has put a pep in his step. I need him to stick around for as long as possible. He is on a vet recommended glucosamine suppliment.

[sincitydevildogs]

Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about Maximum Bully dry dog food. Their website is http://www.maximumbully.com, or http://www.elitek9nutrition.com. I can’t find a review on here yet (I know they’re extremely new with a small distribution area and a very focused market). Just wondering if anyone knows anything about it or has tried it yet, or if there are plans for a review of it anytime soon. Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi yevincent –

I realize Fromm is rated 4 stars. Fromm was just recently downgraded to 4 stars (thank god – I could never understand why that food was rated 5 stars!) but at the time I made the list the entire line was rated 5 stars. I have not yet had a chance to go in and change it. Within the next month I plan on updating this list and also making a list of grain-inclusive foods. I’m just strapped for time at the moment.

The calculation for the Wellness CORE was based on the actual calcium level sent to me by the company. I emailed them and asked for the average calcium level in the Wellness CORE Puppy Food based on their product analysis results.

I have the email saved and this was their response to me:

Dear Lydia,

Thank you for taking the time to write about Wellness CORE Puppy dry dog food.

This formula contains approximately 1.23% calcium.

Thanks again for contacting us.

Alyssa Martin
Representative
Consumer Affairs

000299852A

You’re basing your calculation on the max listed on their website. Companies will often list minimums and maximums that are quite a bit higher or lower than the actual amount in the food to allow for a margin of error. I chose to make the list based on average levels rather than maximums or minimums.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If I called a company and the customer service representative told me that they didn’t know the fat content of their food I would not be feeding the food. I also would not feed a food if the company didn’t respond to my emails. The protein and fat levels for both the formulas you mentioned are listed on the Vital Essentials website though. The Rabbit formula has 50% protein and 27% fat (dry matter) and the turkey has 45% protein and 41% fat (dry matter basis).

[Jolie_Gizmo]

I only do the “free eating” because they maybe eat 3-4 pieces at a time. Is that really bad? I have tried to separate them in the past and all they did was bark (not the talking bark), cry excessively, and not eat. I am afraid that they will starve themselves that is why I started just keeping food down. I must really not be a good pet owner. 🙁

I am looking into Nutrisca and Wellness dry dog food.

Jolie and Gizmo start acting out of character when they are separated, I haven’t been able to separate them since she (Gizmo) was born, he (Jolie) would take more care of the litter of puppies than the momma did.

I am sorry for this breakdown I just feel as if I have let my dogs down and I feel horrible for doing it to them.

[yevincent]

Hi, it is me again. Since I have a labrador puppy, I am looking for wet food (canned) with low calcium. I have found most formulas of wellness and Nature’s Variety Instinct have low calcium (less than 3.5g/kcal). I also know Hound Dog Mom made a list of recommanded dry food which contains low calcium (I know the list is a lot of work and love! Thnaks! Hound Dog Mom!). I wonder if someone can share advice or a list of WET food with low calcium (these food also should be 4 or 5 star grade here).
Any suggestion will be appreciate. You all have a great day!

[cinner00]

I have narrowed down the food to 3 based on availability and pricing for our needs. The following are the ones I’m looking at. The appear on the 4 star food list and also a top 10 list. I was wondering if anyone has a strong opinion or experience to help me narrow done my list for my large breed pup.
Innova Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food
Wellness Super5Mix Large Breed Puppy Health Puppy Food
Solid Gold Wolf Cub Large Breed Puppy Dog Food

[cinner00]

I have narrowed down the food to 3 based on availability and pricing for our needs. The following are the ones I’m looking at. The appear on the 4 star food list and also a top 10 list. I was wondering if anyone has a strong opinion or experience to help me narrow done my list for my large breed pup.

Innova Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food
Wellness Super5Mix Large Breed Puppy Health Puppy Food
Solid Gold Wolf Cub Large Breed Puppy Dog Food

[pugmomsandy]

Several folks “bump up” their dry foods with fresh toppers like meat or fish or eggs and a few veggies. I feed Sojo’s Complete dog right now but just bought the cat version that has 30% protein. I still add a high protein topper whether it’s canned meat or fresh meat or egg or high protein kibble like Epigen. I make my own homemade raw food so I add in a spoon or two of that as well.

[sotodog]

So I rescued a dog 2 months ago. He, Zeus, is about 38-40 lbs and about 1 year old and DNA says mutt (1/4 Amstaff, 1/8 boxer, 1/8 bulldog, 1/8 keeshound, 3/8 mutt). Zeus was a stray and came in the shelter at 18 lbs and gained about 10 lbs in the 2 weeks he was there. When we rescued him he was being fed Science Diet and we continued for a bag and did 1 small bag of Rachael Ray Nutrish 6. He checked out as being healthy, no shedding or itching at all but some dandruff. There was a vet visit where he had dropped a few lbs so vet told us to double food but when I switched to 100% Wellness Super5Mix for puppy it was clear I had to cut back (soft poops and farting). Now I am finishing Wellness and I just bought a bag of Blue Buffalo Adult fish and sweet potato. We have had Zeus for about 2 months and now he is scratching and shedding like crazy but no dandruff. So how can I tell if the food is causing the scratching and shedding or whether it is environmental? Unfortunately, I can’t place the exact timeline of when the shedding started and dog food changes were. We were feeding too much for several weeks I would say so could that cause these problems? It seems that as I’ve improved the quality of the food, his shedding and itching have worsened. Also, how concerned do I need to be to transition dog foods as it seems to be what is recommended? I had read that quite a few dogs have difficulties with chicken? Is that really a concern because it is the easiest protein to find. I have to say that I am not interested in raw food but would consider a canned and dry combo. I would love any advice/suggestions you have.

[robyn.douglas]

I have a question similar in nature about 3 star dehydrated vs 5 star dry. I am currently feeding Sojos Grain Free Fruit and Vegetable Mix to my two youngest dogs. Currently there is no review for that Sojos product, but there is one for the Complete Formula, which I actually do rotate in. The way the review reads, the food is great and has great ingredients, the only problem noted is that it is under the ideal amount of protein. I am actually using the Sojos, but instead of adding the 1/4 cup of meat indicated on the package, I am actually adding in just shy of the amount of raw meat that I would be if I was feeding them only raw (3% of their body weight…they are very active). To me, this is a great way to bump up the Sojos as a 3 star food, closer to what would be considered a 5 star in my mind. Has anyone else considered this?

[winifred]

My comment on DinoVite: do not purchase this supplement without speaking with your vet first. My dog has had skin problems for the past few years, and my vet treats her with prednisone and other allergy medications. I feed her very high quality food. My husband heard Dinovite advertised on the radio and we decided to try it. After 2 days of giving her the supplement according to the instructions on the box, she had a horrible allergic reaction. Her eyes swelled up and she developed hives all over her body. She vomited repeatedly. We had to treat her with Benadryl and Prednisone to control the inflammation. The company is refunding my money, but none of my shipping charges. Not only do I have to pay to ship the product back to them for my refund, but they won’t credit my original shipping charges. The representative on the phone expressed no concern about my situation. I would never purchase from this company again.

[HealthyMenuPetFood]

Hello! I’m so very sorry to hear about the health issues your babies are experiencing. I am an independent field rep for Life’s Abundance. We offer an outstanding food + supplement program that may be exactly what you are looking for. Our veterinarian formulated Healthy & Holistic dry or wet foods along with our Agility Supplement will get your babies feeling better & back to optimal health.

Good joint health is crucial to your companion animal’s wellbeing. The ability to walk, run and jump represents a large part of your dog’s unique ability to express emotion. Unfortunately, aching and stiff joints are just as much a part of aging for dogs as it is for humans. In fact, there are an estimated 68 million dogs experiencing hip and joint challenges – that’s nearly 60% of the canine population!

At present, there are several hip and joint formulas marketed for companion animals. Unfortunately, most of these products treat the joint as an isolated goal; it is for this reason that they do not work as well as they could. Our Agility Supplement is a holistic formula, which means that it takes into account the needs of the whole body, including all the parts that work with the joints.

This formula helps maintain healthy joint cartilage and connective tissue, and to aid in the production of healthy synovial fluid, which lubricates the joints. Learn more about our Agility Supplement as well as Life’s Abundance Premium Health Foods here: http://tinyurl.com/LAagility

Life’s Abundance Premium Health Foods & treat samples can be ordered here: http://www.tinyurl.com/LAsamples

[Hound Dog Mom]

I used the USDA nutrient database and Self Nutrition Data – a few of the ingredients I couldn’t find on these databases (like some of the supplements) and had to do a bit of digging on the internet to find an analysis. Then I just converted everything to a dry matter basis and weighted all the nutrients based on the amount of the ingredient in the recipe. Very tedious and time consuming. If you can find any free software for analyzing recipes let me know!

[Anonymous]

HDM, thanks for the response. Is there anything wrong with feeding her a grain dog food like Innova?

Also she is very itchy a lot of the time. She scratches and gnaws on her fur/ skin retry often. Her skin does look a little dry but I’m worried it has something to do with a food allergy. She doesn’t strip her fur or anything but there is a spot on her head where she scratches that she is starting to lose spots of fur. It’s not too bad yet but worries me. Any advice?

[LolaPalooza]

Good afternoon all!

This website is a huge source of information!!! Kudos to all who contribute!

I am currently researching a suitable replacement for Hill’s® Prescription Diet c/d® Canine Urinary Tract Health dry dog food. I have a 4.5 year old beagle who is on it due to her tendency to develop crystals in her urine. I tried switching her to the same product my other dogs are eating, Acana Wild Prairie, but she developed issues within a couple months. So far, I’ve learnt that a low phosphorus and low sodium is the main differences and I’m having a problem finding something suitable. The best I have found is the Kirkland’s Senior with a phos level of 0.7 (c/d is 0.59) but no sodium info.

Does anyone have any other recommendations? I hate the ingredients in c/d and I want her to get onto better food than this stuff!

Thanks for your help!!

[Mom2Cavs]

I just wanted to add that I’m feeding 4Health grain free and imho the kibble size is what I consider kinda large. In fact, Laverne (my smallest Cavalier at 18lbs.) has some trouble eating it dry, but not with canned added. Pugmomsandy…..my local TSC doesn’t sell Amicus (wish they did). I also love Merrick Thanksgiving Day Dinner canned food for my crew. I do wish they wouldn’t have added Carageenan in all their formulas now, but I don’t feed the food solely so I’m not too worried.

[WrigleysMom]

Wrigley is a 6 month old yellow labrador and he is our baby!! After 6 months of taking the little guy to a “traditional” Vet for his stomach issues (we got him at 7 weeks old and he had coccidia from the breeder), we were tired of the constant prescription of steroids, antibiotics and pro-biotics. This little guy has been on some sort of medication since birth. I was fed up with this approach and took him to a holistic vet. She said that his internal terrain was compromised from all the meds, and recommended a RAW diet immediately (along with four supplements- two to aide with the transition). We did a cold turkey switch from his Canidae Grain Free Lamb and Bison to Natures Variety Beef RAW patties. Along with his supplements and a homemade “veggie mash” (spinach, goji berries, cucumbers, carrots and celery) Wrigley loved his new food for the first two days. Now at day three, he won’t eat anything and has been waking up at 4am vomiting a mucus-like bile. I’m reading online that dogs can experience detox symptoms when switching to raw food, especially dogs who have been on steroids or antibiotics (like Wrigley). But he’s never missed a meal and I’m worried about him. My husband wants to take him to the traditional vet, but we know he’ll just go back to antibiotics and want to put him back on dry kibble. After researching RAW diets, I really believe in the nutritional value and have already seen an improvement in my dogs bowls. Has anyone had any experience with “detox” symptoms like this? I’ve been up since 4am with our puppy and crying hysterically! Feeding him brown rice and chicken broth now, hoping he can keep that down.

[annaandmaxlovequincy1]

This is all new to me! I have a pomapoo puppy, 10 months old. Started him on science diet puppy, but switched to buffalo blue a couple months ago after researching nutrition info. He loved it! A week into the new bag he started feeling sick, threw up a couple times and diarrhea . Cleared by the vet..,he’s been eating chicken and rice…but I can’t get him to tolerate the dry food (increased gradually) now. Any suggestions for a different food? Not sure what to do.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hmurray – The calcium levels are much too high in Eagle Pack Large/Giant Breed Puppy formula dry dog food for me to feel comfortable recommending it. Based on their stated minimum the calcium level is 4.3 grams per 1,000 kcal. and the actual level is likely a bit higher than that. You should be looking for a food with no more than 3.5 grams of calcium per 1,000 kcal. In the past I have used the Power Adult formula for my adult dog and I thought it was a great quality food for the price, I still frequently recommend Eagle Pack. I just wouldn’t feed it to a large or giant breed puppy.

[AnnieluvsPoms]

thank you hound dog mom and pugmomsandy. i wish i knew why it started in the first place. 2 of our dogs are fine and Loki just can’t seem to get his stools back to normal. I don’t know what it is. He was on this prescription stuff that’s made by purina (from the vet) but that didn’t seem to help get his stools back to normal. Now I’m only feeding him boiled chicken and rice. I’m worried about him not getting enough nutrients though with just feeding him boiled chicken and rice. I decided to go with Holistic Select for digestive health as the dry food I am going to try once his stools improve (hoping they improve!). He was seen by the vet and other things were ruled out; however, he has not been tested for allergies.

[hmurray]

Hound Dog Mom – What are your thoughts on Eagle Pack’s Large/Giant breed dry puppy food
for an english mastiff puppy or any other giant breed?

[yevincent]

Thanks, hound dog mom!!! you are a life safer!-dog saver?;)
I know tripe is good food, but here is what I concern: if I mix dry food and trpe in meals, like 50% and 50%, my dog can definetely have enough calorie, but he may need more Vitamins and Minerals?(the 50% from tripe has more protein, but less other content) Like you said, “Green tripe is high in protein and naturally has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but contains very low levels of each (only about 0.3% calcium on a dry matter basis if I recall correctly). ” Will my dog get less calcium and develop some health issue?
thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi yevincent –

Yes – calcium needs to be converted to a dry matter basis for wet foods due to the high moisture content. Calculating calcium levels on a kcal. basis (versus percent of weight basis) is the most accurate way to evaluate the appropriateness of foods as it accounts for varying caloric densities between different foods. For a large breed puppy you’d want to feed a food with 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. or less. I’ll walk you through the calculation. Let’s say the food comes in a standard 13.2 oz. can, has 400 kcal. per can and the company tells you there is 0.3% calcium on an as-fed basis.

1) Convert 13.2 oz. to grams (easier to perform calculations using grams): (13.2 oz.)(28 grams/1 oz.) = ~397 g.

2) Calculate how many grams of calcium are in the can of food: (397 g.)(0.003) = 1.19 g. calcium per can.

3) Calculate how many grams of calcium per 1,000 kcal.: (1.19 g. calcium per can)/(400 kcal. per can) = 0.00298 g. calcium per kcal. (0.00298 g. calcium per kcal.)(1,000 kcal.) = ~2.98 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal.

————————————

If you wanted the calcium level on a percent basis:

1) 100% – % Moisture = % Dry Matter
2) [(As Fed Calcium %)/(% Dry Matter)] X 100%

BTW – I’d highly recommend Tripett as a canned topper for large breed puppies. It’s not a complete and balanced food as it’s green tripe only but it makes a great topper if you’re feeding a balanced kibble. Green tripe is high in protein and naturally has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but contains very low levels of each (only about 0.3% calcium on a dry matter basis if I recall correctly). The best part is dogs go nuts for it.

[yevincent]

Hi, I became a new dog lover today! I have a 3 months old lab, and he is doing great on his dry food. I am also looking for good wet food as topping. Because lab is a large breed, I would like to buy wet food with low calcium, but many wet foods don’t show how much calcium is. I just e-mail some companies, and they told me the data. BUT, what I get is something like 0.3%. I guess I should do some calculation on it? Most wet food has 75% water, so I should do: 0.3%/25%=1.2%. Am I doing right?
Thanks for any help!

[laney.delaney]

Raw food might be much more “real” tasting and satisfying to them, plus, nothing’s better! I don’t blame them being picky about dry food, even the best ingredients turned into a kibble can’t be nearly as awesome as a hunk of meat.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Response #2:

Hi marty0203 –

Calcium and phosphorus levels really only affect the joint health of large and giant breed dogs during the growth phase. By the time a large or giant breed dog reaches two years of age it is either dysplastic or not dysplastic. For all dogs, calcium and phosphorus levels should be in balance with one another (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is really only a concern for those making homemade food, balanced commercial foods will have a proper ratio of calcium to phosphorus.

I strongly feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is best for most dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <20% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food I would search for one with no less than 30% protein.

I feel it’s important to feed a variety of foods. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched to a new brand at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding at least 3 quality foods (preferable different brands with different protein sources) and switching every so often. If you can mix in canned or fresh food occasionally this is great too and canned and fresh foods are much more species-appropriate than dry food. Patty had a wonderful suggestion with recommending you check out online retailers. I live in a small area with a limited selection of quality pet products as well and, for this reason, do the majority of my shopping online. In addition to the sites she suggested, some others you may want to check out are wag.com, doggiefood.com and naturalk9supplies.com.

Some supplements that promote joint health are glucosmaine, chondroitin, MSM, esterified fatty acids (such as cetyl myristoleate) and hyaluronic acid. Some who foods supplements that promote joint health are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, eggshell membrane, shark cartilage and velvet antler. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, gullet and chicken feet) and naturally rich in joint health promoting compounds such as chondroitin. Turmeric, tart cherry, boswellia, yucca, white willow, bromelian and high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.) all help to manage pain and inflammation. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic issues, a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement would be fine for maintenance. If your dogs have any symptoms of pain and inflammation you may want to consider a combination of some of the joint health supplements listed in addition to one of the natural anti-inflammatories.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marty –

Calcium and phosphorus levels are really only a concern for joint health during the growth phase. Once large/giant breed dogs reach two years of age their joints are fully developed and at this point they’re either dysplastic or not dysplastic. Calcium and phosphorus levels obviously need to be in balance with each other (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is true for all dogs, not just large/giant breeds, and isn’t a concern as long as you’re feeding a balanced commercial food (where balancing C:P ratios come into play are with homemade diets). I personally feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is healthiest and most species-appropriate for healthy dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <15% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food, I would search for one with no less than 30% protein. I also would not limit yourself to only one brand – variety is important. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched brands and protein sources at the end of every bag and I added different canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding a minimum of three foods your dogs can eat (preferably different brands with different protein sources). Patty had a wonderful suggestion with online ordering if selection is limited where you live – some other sites that have a big selection and offer free shipping in addition to the two she posted are Wag.com, Doggiefood.com and NaturalK9Supplies.com. There are several supplements you can give your dogs that help to promote joint health and/or have anti-inflammatory properties. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic conditions or arthritis a basic glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM supplement would be fine to start off with. Some other supplements good for joint maintenance are hyaluronic acid and esterfied fatty acids (like cetyl myristoleate). Some whole food supplements that are beneficial for the joints are eggshell membrane, velvet elk antler, sea cucumber, green lipped mussel and shark cartilage. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, chicken feet and gullets) are very rich in naturally occurring chondroitin. For dogs experiencing pain/arthritis some natural anti-inflammatories include high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.), turmeric, boswellia, tart cherry, yucca, bromelian and white willow. Generally human supplements are cheaper and higher quality than supplements marketed to dogs, adjust the dosage accordingly (a good rule of thumb is a 25 lb. dog would get about 1/4 of the recommended human dose, 1/2 the human dose for a 50 lb. dog, 3/4 the human dose for a 75 lb. dog and full human dose for dogs >100 lbs.). Also – as you may already know – the most important factor to maintaining healthy joints and staving off arthritis in large and giant breed dogs is maintaining a healthy body weight, it’s very important that large/giant breeds don’t become overweight as this adds a lot of stress to the joints.

[marty0203]

I have recently adopted a 2-3 year old English mastiff and I currently have a 5 year old great dane/lab mix. Both dogs are over 100 lbs and I am currently looking for the best dry dog food to feed both of them. My head is spinning after trying to figure out how much calcium, phosphorus and other minerals are ideal for joint health, in addition to the correct amount of protein and fat. If anyone could give me a few suggestions, I would greatly appreciate your help. Also, if it helps, I live in Wyoming and sometimes the selection can be limited, which is why I need a few options. 🙂 Thanks!

[theBCnut]

I think you are right, she has more than one thing going on. Even on the correct dose, I still am prone to tummy trouble, dry skin, etc. but to a much lesser degree than before, so I assume the same holds true for dogs. But I think that is just a facet of what is going on with her.

I don’t always like suggesting tough love, but I think to get a handle on what is causing her issues, you need to pick a food and stick with it. I know you said she vomits if she doesn’t eat, but you also said she is overweight. So this is what I suggest; get either the LID turkey or lamb or some other LID food that doesn’t have chicken or beef and feed that, with no toppers. Also find, make, whatever treats out of the same protein source. A couple times a day, do a little training so you can give her some of her treats, enough for her to have something on her stomach, not enough to be a replacement meal. Offer her her kibble twice a day for 15 minutes then pick it up and put it away. When she has been on one food for a few weeks re evaluate how her skin is doing and decide if you need to try a different protein source to make things better. If you could get probiotic and digestive enzymes into her it would be for the best. The goal is to get her skin calmed down enough that you can start switching to other protein sources and actually tell when something bothers her.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi sctigergirl81 –

The above post was not inaccurate based on the most current and accepted research available on the topic or large and giant breed growth as it relates to nutrition. There is no correlation between protein levels and developmental orthopedic disease – this was actually proved in a study done on Great Danes that was published in the Journal of Nutrition. Unfortunately the link you posted contains a lot of inaccurate information that has is not backed by research – namely implying that protein affects growth and that large/giant breed puppies should not eat a food designated for growth or all life stages. I urge you to read the links posted at the beginning of this thread – all written by veterinarians, veterinary nutritionists or studies published in peer reviewed clinical nutrition journals. There’s a lot of inaccurate information floating around about proper nutrition for large and giant breed puppies so it’s crucial to do your research and rely only on reputable sources.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[giabuford]

I have a ten year old boxer. Until very recently she had been eating Wellness can food along with vet prescribed dry food. She refused to eat. Nothing physically wrong with her, bloodwork etc fine. She will only eat low quality food now, ugh. Any suggestions

[donnajprout@aol.com]

Our field ESS is approximately 45 days pregnant (6 weeks). Her normal weight I 48 lbs – very active dog. She was getting 2 cups of Merrick Grain Free Chicken-Sweet Potato dry split between AM and PM. We have upped it to 3 cups a day this past week She is getting very hungry and I know I have to increase her intake.

What is the difference between Kcal and calories? According to vet textbooks she should be eating about 1800kcal calories a day at this stage, and up to 3300 kcal at time of whelping

This is her (our) first litter so we need all the answers we can get

[sctigergirl81]

I’m sorry, but the above post is inaccurate. Great Danes are giant breed, not large – and this may seem like a small discrepancy, but not when it comes to feeding a great dane puppy. I am a great dane owner myself, and it is paramount to feed the correct percentage to a great dane puppy or you will have huge health problems down the road, and perhaps very soon. The link below maps out exactly how you should feed a great dane. Hope this helps!

http://www.all-about-great-danes.com/feeding-great-danes.html

[hmurray]

HDM – What are your thoughts on Eagle Pack’s Large/Giant breed dry puppy food? Are the calcium and phosphorus levels appropriate for an english mastiff puppy or any other giant breed?

[pugmomsandy]

What breed or weight? What do you consider low fat? Kibble or dry or mixed? Have you seen the Suggested Low Fat Foods list?

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Pawz]

Does anyone know of a decent dry dog food with low fiber and low fat?
The vast amount of dog brands has me overwhelmed and cross-eyed.
please help. I have a dog with EPI this is vital to his recovery and survival.
Also, it needs to be of good quality not super expensive and not super cheap.
Any suggestions?

Low Fiber/Low Fat

[niveus]

This has me very worried, I started feeding my dogs royal canin last fall I had just had a litter of puppies and put them on it. Just recently I’ve noticed they have been getting diarrhea frequently, nothing else has changed yesterday I made home made food for them and mixed it with the dry food and have already seen a improvement. I’m going to the vet on saturday to have their feces tested to make sure there isn’t something else going on, but besides a couple dog shows they havn’t even been anywhere else. Have you both stopped feeding the royal canin?

[shelties mom]

Nutrition deficiencies and sensitive stomach develop are usually due to eating the same dry food for months and years. Raw, high moisture food is best. There are commercial raw prepared food you can purchase if you don’t want to make your own at home.

I highly recommend the DVD ‘Functional, Fresh, Fast food for our furry friends’ by Dr. Karen Becker

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/07/21/13-pet-foods-ranked-from-great-to-disastrous.aspx

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/09/14/false-beliefs-in-pet-care-for-aging-pets.aspx