[pitlove]

Hi Jack-

What kind of puppy is it?

[pitlove]

Hi Ally-

Lets back up here for a second before we start assuming an 18 week old puppy has food allergies or a food intolerance. I see a very clear reason for why he is likely having stool issues. You brought him home at 8 weeks old and changed his food instantly and then have subsequently changed his food several more times since then.

It is ALWAYS recommended when getting a puppy to keep them on the same food the breeder had them on for 3-4 weeks. This gives your puppy time to adjust to his new home and environment without the stress of also having his food changed. Find out what they were feeding him at the kennel (NO it does not matter what food it is or if you approve of it or not) and put him back on that. Then slowly after 3-4 weeks or normal stool switch him to an appropriate large breed puppy food. Regular Purina Pro Plan large breed puppy would be my suggestion.

[pitlove]

Hi Nadine-

Regarding your concerns about Copper sulfate. Who is the source dishing out this information? And what are their credentials? Are there peer reviewed papers published about this “issue”? Have studies been done? What proof, real proof is there of this? Those are the questions I’d be asking. Anyone can write a blog and have an opinion on the internet. I see misinformation posted on this site and Facebook etc all the time.

[pitlove]

Amy-

Nature’s Variety is not a bad choice. They staff a world renowed veterinary nutritionist Dr. Susan Wynn. She formulates their products and is apart of their nutrition counsel. They are not a big enough company to conduct research and do many feeding trials, but her contribution is important. Hope your pup does well on it!

[pitlove]

@Susan

Just so you are aware, California Naturals has been discontinued by Mars.

[pitlove]

Hi Misti-

If you are truly concerned that your dog might have a food allergy, the first place to start is with an elimination trial. This will be the best way to spend your money.

You will need to discuss this with your vet, but what you would do is get a prescription from her/him for a hydrolyzed protein theraputic diet. She can eat that food and only that food for usually about 3 months. No treats, no flavored meds, no table scraps, nothing.

These foods are extremely different from over the counter limited ingredient foods on several levels. One, the companies sterilize the machines that are processing the food before they run the hydrolyzed protein diet each and every time. This makes certain that the food is not being contaminated with other proteins. Secondly the hydrolyzation of the proteins makes it so that the immune system can not react to the food at all. This is not the same for OTC limited ingredient foods.

This is going to be the best route to take instead of purchasing LID foods from a pet store.

[pitlove]

Unfortunetly, being a breeder doesn’t mean you understand how to feed the pups you are producing correctly, no matter how many years you’ve been doing it. And not many pet store workers are truly knowledgable about nutrition. They mainly learn about what the trends are in pet foods and learn the marketing claims and roll with that to sell a product.

The ingredient list as it reads out on the back of the bag, tells you next to nothing about the quality of the food. It tells you what should be in the food, but not the quality of the raw materials used to make the food. Focus on the company is far more important.

When I choose a pet food for a large breed puppy, several things are important to me. I want a company that conducts their own research, I want a company that staffs vet nutritionists, I want a company with strict manufacturing protocols, and I want a company that does feeding trials. Those companies are going to be the companies most people think are “terrible”. My number one choice for a large breed puppy food will always be Purina Pro Plan. Purina dedicates millions of dollars every year researching large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition.

After that would be Hill’s or Royal Canin, but if someone were to be truly against one of those companies, I would say Fromm, NutriSource or Precise.

[pitlove]

Hi Amy-

Since most Labs will reach over 50lbs at mature weight they are considered a large breed puppy. This means that for optimal growth they need to be on a food specially for a large breed puppy. Merrick puppy food is not designed for the growth of large breed puppies, so I would say it is a blessing in disguise that he will not eat it.

Developmental orthopedic disorders do not develop due to high levels of protein in the food. This is a myth that was laid to rest some 20 years ago. What we do know now is that excessive dietary calcium and over nutrition (fat puppy) along with genetics are the leasing causes of common bone growth issues.

The challenge with finding a large breed puppy food is that not all of the companies “large breed puppy” foods meet the criteria for what a food for a growing LBP should be. Many are in excess of calcium. This means you must call or email the company and ask for a nutrient analysis of the food and double check it against the calcium calculator on this site.

[pitlove]

Hi Jessica-

If you are referring to HoundDogMoms list of appropriate large breed puppy foods, I caution you that due to her being in Vet school it had not been updated in many years. Recipes change in that time and I encourage you to make sure that the numbers you looked up for the calcium/Phos are falling within the recently updated AAFCO guidelines for large breed puppies. This may mean contacting the company directly or asking your Fromm rep for a nutrient analysis of the formula you are using.

[pitlove]

Her post was something she saw on Facebook that was likely an isolated incident due to poor storage on the owners fault. I’ve been using Pro Plan for almost 2 years with no issues. Never found bugs or anything. I think you will be very happy with Pro Plan.

Make sure you do a proper 7-10 day transition to the new food at minimum though.

[pitlove]

Kim-

I’m so sorry I did not see your comment sooner. Not sure if you’ll be back to this thread, but I’m so glad to here your success with Pro Plan. I was the same as you believing what I was told about it being a poor quality food, but my dogs health tells me otherwise. It will be 2 years for our household on Pro Plan come the end of Jan, and I’d honestly never feed another brand and never will.

[pitlove]

Hi Nacho-

I do not think that the regular Wellness Puppy formula would have caused him to lose weight. I also would not stress too much over under a lb lost in a week. Use the Purina Body Condition System to evaluate his weight as he grows and ask the breeder/your vet what the proper growth markers for this breed is. Each Golden Retriever will be different but there is a still a breed standard.

Wellness is not a bad food, but yes it is expensive. Can take a look at Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy, Fromm Gold Large Breed Puppy, or NutriSource Large Breed Puppy to see if any of those fit your price range better. I will share with you that my number once choice out of the ones I listed will be Pro Plan because of the dedication to large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition research Purina has done.

[pitlove]

Glad you mentioned the Fromm Gold line. I do prefer that line to their Grain Free lines personally. I like Precise. I’ve seen a giant breed and small breed dog grow on it. No issues with the giant breed and hes 4 now (Great Dane). Best of luck with whatever product you choose.

[pitlove]

Hi Karen-

Firstly let me just say I’m so happy your pup survived that episode. A lot do not.

It sounds like you have an amazing resource on hand being that you’re working with a nutritionist at one of the vet schools. The small frequent meals are likely going to have to continue for life and ensuring that she is on a diet that is highly digestible is key. If the Z/D is still causing diarrhea, have you told your vet and the nutritionist about this? She may need to go to another Hills formula or perhaps even to another brand of therapeutic food.

Royal Canin might be one to ask about. They have a lot of formulas in the vet diet lines and are very strict about ingredient quality and manufacturing.

[pitlove]

Eek yeah I’m not a fan of life’s abundance. I’m surprised there was not some clause in the contract stipulating that you needed to feed that food for the life span of the dog or the contract was void.

Precise Holistic Complete Large and Giant breed puppy is 3.5% Max fiber. I also am not a big fan of grain free for puppies. I notice a lot of folks have similar issues as you when feeding grain free foods to puppies.

[pitlove]

Hi Rick-

The fiber on this food is high, very high in my opinion as it is 6%. That could be part of the reason you are noticing his poop is soft. I like Fromm in general but this may not be the most appropriate food for him. What was the breeder feeding? Perhaps it would be best to keep him on what they feed.

[pitlove]

Hi Jason-

Flip your bag of dog food over and look for the AAFCO statement of nutritional adequacy. If it says it is a complete and balanced food, there is no need to supplement your dogs diet. Supplementation could actually be counter productive if he is already eating a complete and balanced food.

Petdiets.com would be the best place for you to get information about pet nutrition as the site is run by board certified vet nutritionists.

[pitlove]

haleycookie-

I’m sure you’ve figured out by now that we are going to ask for links to credible research (published papers, studies, peer reviewed articles etc) when such statements are presented like “kidney disease is on the rise in cats..” “cats dying from kidney failure more than any other illness” “that is because of garbage kibble people are told to buy”. Whats interesting is, you likely can’t produce any of this information because studies done in cats are few and far between. Why do you think we can’t easily diagnose and treat heartworm disease in cats even though some 50% or more of the cat population (indoor and outdoor) are HW+? So I’ll ask you then, where do you get your information from? It doesn’t seem to have any basis besides someones opinion you’ve likely read on facebook etc.

[pitlove]

So sorry for your loss Tammi. My boyfriend’s parents lost a Rottweiler to e.coli poisoning. I’ll never understand why people say dogs are not affected by those types of pathogens.

[pitlove]

Hi a c-

I’ve been using Bravecto on both my dogs for a couple years now. Not a single issue here. We switched from Nexgard once we figured out my AmStaffs allergy issues and after we found out he was predisposed to seizures Bravecto was still recommended to me by his vet as one of the safe products he could have. I do firmly believe in the safety and efficacy of the product and would recommend it to you.

Consumer reviews on products make it challenging to properly assess the product because they are often bias. The reviewer assumes that the most recent thing changed in the dogs environment or daily routine is at fault for the problem, not realizing that’s not always the case.

I also think your comment about a “dog with fleas and ticks is better than a dead dog” is note worthy. I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. Fleas and ticks carry and transmit multiple fatal diseases, not to mention, with heavy infestations can cause anemia. Don’t forget about flea bite dermatitis as well.

[pitlove]

Hi GSDsForever-
You mentioned California Natural as a suggestion to the OP. I wanted to let you know Mars has discontinued both Cal Nat and EVO lines of dog food. Once supplies run out the OP would no longer be able to purchase this product if she chose it.

[pitlove]

Dharlee-

I’m glad you and your boy are feeling better. It is such great news to hear that. I’m sure Aimee is tired of the compliments by now, but shes very much as responsible for my boys well being as my vet is. Many of her posts changed my mind the way they did for you. She certainly has a way with words 😛

I’m sure you and your pup will both sleep much better tonight!

[pitlove]

Hi Deborah M-

If you have concerns about Royal Canin Ultamino, I would encourage you to do 2 things. One would be to contact RC themselves and see if you can talk to one of their nutritionists about your concerns and two, to go on petdiets.com under the “Ask the Nutritionist” section and ask Dr. Remillard about Ultamino and see what she says. Hopefully this will help you feel more comfortable.

Also, have you already put your dog on Ultamino? If so, how is he doing? Let your dog be the one to tell you what food is best for him, not ratings or reviews on the internet.

[pitlove]

Hi Tonia-

Your Iggy may benefit from a home cooked diet formulated specifically for all her health concerns by a board certified vet nutritionist. This way you know for sure what’s going into her diet and that she won’t have a reaction and using the services of a specialist allows the diet to be balanced correctly. That and home prepared meals may be more enticing to her.

Petdiets.com or BalanceIt.com are the 2 sites I would recommend. That or getting a referral from another doctor to a nutritionist.

[pitlove]

Blue Buffalo has a vet diet now, but idk if that’s the one they are talking about.

[pitlove]

Hi organic n-

Home made diets for kidney patients are great, however it’s important to make sure they are formulated correctly for a kidney patient in particular and what stage they are in. Unfortunately none of us here could help with that.

My suggestion (I understand you don’t want to hear this but it’s the only suggestion anyone should be giving you) is to use the services of either petdiets.com or Balance it.com and have one of their vet nutritionists formulate an appropriate diet for your dog. They will obtain the records from your vet and create a diet based on the specific diagnosis.

[pitlove]

I read the website and have talked to plenty of Hill’s reps being in the veterinary medicine field, but thank you for your opinion.

[pitlove]

Sorry Robin, my comment was directed at Susan. It’s clear that you are following your vets advice. Glad Toto is making progress.

[pitlove]

The S/D is what the dog should be on for DISSOLVING the stones. C/D is meant for prevention of crystals. This is the problem with people thinking prescription foods don’t do anything or all have the same purpose. They do not all have the same purpose…S/D and C/D do 2 completely different things.

[pitlove]

Lol sounds like my dogs on ProPlan!

Good they were up front about making Authority. Always a good sign.

[pitlove]

C4c, I am honestly not that familiar with American Pet Nutrition. I did see from their site that they make a variety of foods, mostly grocery store brands. I did not see Authority on their site either, so I did not know they made that.

I dont think they have been involved in any recalls or at least none I’m aware of.

[pitlove]

Hi

We carry this where I work now. I would say it’s similar to taste of the wild if I had to compare it to any other brands. We have the large bag size priced at $49.99 same as how we price taste of the wild. The company that manufactures the food is called American Pet Nutrition.

I wouldn’t say this food has any special qualities other than the price bring good. It’s a pretty typical grain free food.

[pitlove]

And what about a flea bite allergy? It only takes one bite from a flea you never see (whether they are on prevention or not) to cause a full body reaction.

[pitlove]

Hi-

Just for clarification, does the puppy still have worms? I was not able to tell based on your post if it did or did not. The way I read it she still did. If that is the case, food change is not going to help.

[pitlove]

Hi Ivy-

I didn’t see this mentioned anywhere, but has fleas or flea bite dermatitis been ruled out?

[pitlove]

Hi Chris-

I understand about the finances etc. Would be a huge undertaking, but I thought I’d suggest it anyway, since you never know someones situation.

As for Science Diet, I do understand that people do not like the brand, but Perfect Weight has gone through clinical trials, so I did include it because I have heard good things about it. I also no longer use an ingredient list to judge the quality of a food, since it tells you very little. I look more at the company, and Hill’s as a company passes for me.

[pitlove]

Hi Chris-

Could building her a large enclosure where she does not have access to forage items be a possiblity? Letting her out only when you are spending time with her in the yard.

As for food suggestions, I’ve used a brand called Country Naturals with success for my senior Lab and have heard good things about Annamaet Lean and also Science Diet Perfect Weight. Only thing with Country Naturals is it is not available online.

I also like Susan’s suggestion of green beans, but would add those to an actual senior diet, which TOTW is not.

[pitlove]

Hi a c-

I don’t think it’s true at all that humans can always eat variety and not get upset stomach. I can eat variety if its food I’m used to eating, but if I go eat something new my stomach gets upset depending on what it is.

As far as wild canids and wolves, do we really know their stool habits and how their diet affects them? We know they are scavengers, going without food sometimes for a week, eating whatever is available to them. Our domestic pets thankfully have more reliable food sources. Just as wild dogs and wolves have had to adapt to their environment so to have the domestic dog.

[pitlove]

Hi Susan-
In order to understand why a small dog and a giant breed receive the same dosage for vaccines, you must first understand that there are weight based drugs and there are non weight based drugs and then you must also understand therapeutic index which is the comparison of the amount of therapeutic agent that causes the therapeutic effect to the amount that causes toxicity. For rabies and all other vaccines the therapeutic index is 1ml and they are not weight based drugs.

That is why a small breed and a giant breed receive the same dose. Hope this helps!

[pitlove]

Thanks for the heads up. No issues with our food at home though.

[pitlove]

Hi Jessica-

Depending on the breed, a puppy will reach an adult at different ages. Small and medium sized dogs when fully grown can transition to adult food at 1 year, toy breeds can often switch earlier at 9 months, large dogs over 50lbs at mature weight is about 18 months and for giant breeds some say to keep them on a puppy formula until 24 months.

If he was already lean and fit before switching to raw and has now lost more weight, you may be under feeding him. I am all for a lean, conditioned dog, but you can go overboard. Any idea what Leo’s projected adult weight will be with that combo of breeds?

[pitlove]

Hi Aimee,

As I’m sure you know, there is not a single chew on the market safe enough to give to a dog and walk away. Also the individual chewing habits of the dog plays a major role. Normally I would be inclined to agree with you, but this time I have to say I don’t. It was irresponsible for this women to buy an undersized chew for a dog of that size, not to mention it being a brachycephalic breed as well, and then turn her back to him while taking a 90 minute conference call. We can’t say what would have happened had she purchased the 7in or the 11in chew and watched her dog while he chewed it because that is not what happened. Would he still be alive? Maybe, maybe not as you suggested. But common sense would tell me not to give a small chew like that to either of my dogs, so either she had no common sense or was trying to save money or both.

Is there some fault on the company here? Yes, maybe. But simply saying the owner has no blame in this is simply promoting more events like this to occur.

[pitlove]

Hi a c
Regardless of what Earth animal chews are made of the incident with the dog dying is 100% owner error. This women bought a 4 in chew for a 125 lb French Mastiff, took a 90 minute conference call and had her back turned away from him. The chew got lodged in his throat and never made it to his stomach, so raw hide or not doesn’t matter.

Susan Thixon once again took a horrible story and ran with it blaming the company instead of the irresponsible owner trying to save money buying a treat far too small for their dog.

[pitlove]

Hi Robyn-

The breeder should have recommended the pup to stay on the current food for 3-4 weeks before switching to another brand. While we do our best to make them feel comfortable and welcome in the home, they can experience stress from a new change of environment which can lead to GI upset as you are experiencing.

Once you have had the pup for 3-4 weeks you can begin a slow transition over 7-10 days to the new food. 75% old food 25% new food for the first few days then 50-50 for the next few days, then 75 new food, 25 old food until the pup is on 100% new food. A 50-50 transition 4 days having the pup is way too much too fast for a young stomach!

Hope this helps

[pitlove]

I guess my dogs are unforunate as well. Being in the veterinary medicine field and hearing all the surgeons at an emergency clinic talk about the things (including bones) they have had to pull out of dogs stomachs, I would never in my right mind give my dog any type of bone. I brush my dogs teeth for oral health.

Comparing your dog to a wolf is old and tired rhetoric. Wolves have a short lifespan in the wild and do not eat an optimal diet. We do not know the mortality rate of wild wolves or other canid species that consume bone due to blockage or intestinal perforation.

[pitlove]

Hi Tyla-

Yes there are other differences. Foods designed for maintenance can not support the dietary needs of a growing puppy. Vitamin and mineral levels will be different, calories, protein, fat etc.

[pitlove]

Thank you for clearing that up Aimee! Looks as though that is a very comprehensive list of foods to choose from. All of them commercially available.

Lori I see you’re looking into a food on that list. Hopefully it satisfies everything needed for your dogs health. Best of luck!

[pitlove]

Hi Lori-

I second everything that Aimee said. It is a myth that carbs feed yeast.

Also this might seem silly, but have you asked the MedVet Cardio doctor what food he would recommend?

[pitlove]

This is a question for your vet. Insulin is not something you want to buy from just anywhere. If the efficacy of the product due to the source is unknown, this can mean the difference between life and death for the dog.

Talk with your vet about cost concerns and find out if they have a solution for you.

[pitlove]

Hi again Tyla-

One thing I want to say it’s that I’m not against grain free foods or anything, I just simply don’t hold them on a pedestal the way others do and I also don’t believe that dogs “can’t” digest or have no need for grains because their anatomy and physiology tells us differently.

Each ingredient in dog food is a mere vessel for the more important nutrients. Each nutrient has its own % of digestibility and then all the ingredients together must form a cohesive food that digests well and can be metabolized by the body. The body doesn’t care if it’s nutrients comes from peas, rice, corn or potato so long as it can use the nutrients provided to it.

It sounds like you want to move away from grain free but are nervous like I was because all you hear in media is how bad grains are for dogs. I’ll say, marketing wise grain free really has been successful. But to me the implication that grain free is superior is just that, a clever marketing tactic. There is no science or even logic behind that.

[Author]

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