[EmilyAnn]

Great, thanks for all of the advice! I love this place 😉 I’ve had a lot of success with making the kefir for myself – my boyfriend won’t touch it, but it has totally helped my stomach. I got my kefir grains off Craigslist over a year ago – I just strain them, drink what I’ve strained, pour new milk back over them, and put them back in the cupboard for 24-48 hours. I’m actually severely lactose intolerant and it doesn’t bother me a bit. It has a lot more good-bacterial strains than yogurt, which is what makes me want to give it to my dog and cat. Also (I just looked this up so I could quote it): according to kefir.net, “Yogurt contains transient beneficial bacteria that keep the digestive system clean and provide food for the friendly bacteria that reside there. But kefir can actually colonize the intestinal tract, a feat that yogurt cannot match.” I’m nervous about experimenting on the animals, considering I’m in the process of getting them used to their new food (thanks to the help of this site!) but I’m sure they’ll love it. I’m gonna colonize their little intestinal tracts 😉 Patty, I’ve never made the Amish friendship cakes I’ve always wanted to!), but I brew kombucha (fermented tea) – talk about a nasty science experiment!! I started all of this back when I was eating raw – SO hard to do, but I never felt better in my whole life when I wasn’t eating anything cooked. Reading about how people feed their dogs raw food makes so much sense to me. I’d love to get there one day.

[SummerRainAussies]

I was looking at the Carlson brand. I read an article that new studies are saying that fish oil can cause prostate cancer in men.. Do you think their would be any of the same risk in a in-tact male dog?

Also I was wondering if it was there is a pill/powder for all the needed vitamins and minerals that i could give that makes the calcium and phosphate levels correct and whatnot. At least until I have the portions of the meat down.
It feels less overwhelming if I could learn in it two phases. LOL

[dog34747]

I have an 8 year old male, retired racing greyhound with a very sensitive stomach and allergies. He’s had severe ear infections, nasal congestion, compulsive licking and digestive problems. He is also hyper allergic to flea bites, with them even turning in to mini staph infections at each bite. Over the past 3 1/2 years I have tried nearly every brand on the market from Purina on up to Orijen. If it’s sold anywhere between the specialty boutique shops and PetsMart, I have probably tried it. I’ve tried grain-in, grain-free, corn-free, soy-free, gluten-free, chicken-free… etc. etc. I have tried chicken, turkey, fish, lamb, beef, bison, and I think one even had ostrich or something. Basically I’ve tried everything. I have even tried the high-end frozen raw diet food, he just simply won’t touch it. He does not appear to be allergic to chicken specifically, I’ve tried poultry based foods and foods with absolutely no poultry of any kind and the result is the same.

Every single grain-free food causes, horrendous breath, loose stool and severe gas. No amount of pumpkin, yogurt, supplement pro-biotics or pre-biotics seems to fix it, sometimes those relieve things for a day or two but never permanently. It seems directly linked to the percent of protein, above a certain point and these issues start. He seems ok around 22% but usually anything in that range is not grain-free.

The grain-in foods (and treats) increase his nasal congestion (like a kid sucking the snot in vs. blowing his nose, not the same as a reverse sneeze) and the obsessive licking, and they also exacerbates the ear infections. He has had the ear infections recurring, or perhaps even continually but low level, since I got him. He was on a grain-in food when I got him and I immediately switched to grain-free but the ear never fully cleared up even on grain-free. The ear is finally cleared up (for now) after lots of meds though I’m worried his diet will bring it back.

I have tried some raw foods and veggies but they seem to pass through him without even being digested at all.

Any kind of food with potato as a major ingredient seems to act as an immediate diuretic, causing him to be constantly thirsty, panting and drinking and therefore needing to go out 7+ per day every few hours and even having accidents in the house which otherwise he has never had before. This includes all those limited ingredient foods because they all seems to be potato based.

The only time I have had any luck with a food is with Iams Sensitive Naturals Ocean Fish. Yes, I know it doesn’t rank highly and many people here are against it, but it was literally the only food that stopped the breath/stool/gas problems in their tracks, nearly overnight. I’ve heard others say they had similar good luck with Iams and attribute it to the beet pulp, not sure if that’s really true but I can say it worked for my dog. He went about eating it with no digestive issues for 9 months or so but the silent ear infection got worse and worse and the nasal issues got worse. Then we tried Eukanuba Wild Salmon/Rice and the ear/nasal continued to get worse and the licking started. The only benefit to the Eukanuba was his coat was suddenly full, fluffy and soft and the traditional greyhound bald spots were even filling in. I was bothered by the increase in allergies so I’ve gone back to looking for something else.

So I’ve since re-tried several other grain-free foods and the Biljac Sensitive formula, all produce the same old problems. Re-tried a limited potato food, same problem.

I’d like to note he has been tested repeatedly for worms, giardia, heartworms, etc. and all negative. He has had bloodwork taken regularly and it is all absolutely perfect, including thyroid. His teeth have been cleaned by the vet recently and are good. He has absolutely no medical issues outside of the allergies and stomach sensitivities. Also, several vets and others suggested giving him claritan or benedryl to relieve the nasal and skin related reactions but it seems to do nothing for him.

I’m sorry this post is so long, thanks for reading all of it, I was trying to give the full background so folks know what I’ve already tried on this great food adventure. I’m looking for any suggestions, advice, testimonials, whatever on food and treats. I’m willing to try any food to get him to be comfortable, as long as it doesn’t require a second mortgage to pay for it. Thanks in advance!

[ebk]

Hound Dog Mom,

Do you have any info on Wellness Pets canned dog food? I use their grain free Beef and Lamb. I sent a message to them a few weeks ago asking about sourcing and if they still outsource their production and, if so, to whom. I read somewhere that they said they no longer outsource to Diamon. The dogs seem to enjoy it and it smells good. BTW, you and InkedMarie were spot on re Evangers. I opened one of the cans and YUCK!

Thanks,

ebk

[losul]

Hy Cyndi!

By now you have maybe already looked it up. I don’t see any serious problem with what you did. In fact I sometimes do the same with small quantitities to be used fairly quickly. Sometimes it’s just not very feasible to do any other way. I guess I mostly just used the opportunity to plug Steve’s book again, lol. While I don’t consider it to be the absolute gospel, I do think he gives a solid foundation to start, so I highly reccomend to folks thinking about starting a raw and/or fresh diet, balancing foods, and/or improving a dogs processed food diet with minimum effort, along with other good tips and advice, and interesting tidbits like gross inaccuracies of professional laboratory analysis testing.

The only thing he hypothesizes about about mixing in vegetables with ground meats before freezing, is that it can further degrade nutrients in the meats and shortens the shelf life because of additional ice crystal formation further damaging the cell walls and making even more exposed to oxidizing agents. It could be a consideration if prepping and freezing for longer periods, or for commercial raw foods that already contain veggies. He says to insist on knowing the production date and then determine yourself the quality shelf life, not just on some of the manufacturers proclaimed 12 month expiration date.

Other things about frozen storage;

for frozen at constant 0 degress, ground meats and whole poultry giblets, USDA only determines to be considered quality that they are used in 3 to 4 months. Whole meats, roasts, poultry, etc., up to 1 year.

Once frozen, and especially ground meats and fish, or especially those with delicate polyunsturated fats, oxidation, degradation, enzyme activity, etc continues, albeit at a slower pace. Ice crystals also grow steadily, increasing damage to cell walls.

I’ve tried to get one friend interested in feeding her (health problems)dogs better, and I had left the book for her to read. She will still have nothing to do with raw, but I thought I had some of it sinking in until visiting recently I saw she again had a large bag of kibble standing wide open in her too warm laundry room. I scolded her carefully(again), closed the bag and brought it in, went and got my book and insisted She read right then and there the section on kibble storage.

I’m convinced that many of todays illnesses are caused by rancidity, nutrient degradation, molds and mycotoxins, and infestatations, from kibble stored too long or under inadequate conditions, especially with the move away from toxic, but more effective, chemical preservatives, and the move towards more delicate fats, and presumably much less toxic, but also much less efficient natural preservatives. I currently feed only about 25% kibble, majority raw, and the rest canned. Probably in the near future I will go to 100% or near, home prepped raw.

[ILoveDogs]

Where do you get the supplements? Are they available online? I’d also read that giving cranberry, Vit C and probiotics can help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi soccermom7 –

Do not add Preference to a balanced kibble. Preference is designed for the addition of boneless meat. Meat is high in phosphorus but has negligible amounts of calcium (dogs need calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio) therefore pre-mixes such as Preference are very high in calcium to compensation for the addition of meat, kibble already has a balanced C:P ratio so adding Preference would potentially throw it off. Additionally, if anything you should be adding more meat to kibble not fruits and vegetables – kibble is too high in plant matter as it is.

As far as a kibble replacement for THK – there is not kibble replacement. The Honest Kitchen is a minimally processed food and about as close to a raw natural or home cooked diet as you can get with feeding commercial food. THK even has some enzymes still intact. Kibble is highly processed. I can understand wanting to cut costs because THK is pricey (I used to feed it) but, unfortunately, going to kibble is going to be a huge decrease in quality.

My recommendations would be to consider a homemade diet (raw or cooked, whatever you’re more comfortable with). There are many books available with balanced recipes. Homemade diets can be done very cheaply. When I was feeding two of my bloodhounds THK I was spending over $500 per month. I’m now feeding them a homemade raw diet, which is even healthier than THK, and spending just under $200 per month. You may want to check out Grandma Lucy’s – it’s another dehydrated type food similar to THK and is a bit more reasonably priced. Another option would be to feed kibble for one meal and THK for the other or to “top” the kibble with some rehydrated THK. You could also look into canned foods – many canned foods are expensive however there are some really reasonably priced quality canned foods available. Pure Balance (available at Walmart) it is rated 5 stars and costs between $1 and $1.25 per can. Costco sells Kirkland Cuts in Gravy which is rated 5 stars for $0.79 per can. 4Health which is rated 4.5 stars is available at Tractor Supply for $0.99 per can. If you added an enzyme supplement to one of these foods it would be nearly as good as THK and much better than kibble. If you do find that you need to go with an entirely kibble diet, I’d pick a 5 star kibble, rotate brands often for variety and add some fresh foods whenever possible (leftover meat, eggs, yogurt, tinned sardines, etc.).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shilohsure –

Pre-made raw food is very expensive and Primal is probably the most expensive brand of all. Pre-made raw really is financially impractical for large breed dogs and multi-dog households. If you want to feed raw I’d highly recommend researching homemade raw and learning to make your own. Homemade raw is higher quality than pre-made raw and it’s much cheaper. I’m currently spending under $200 per month to feed my two girls raw – they’re both around 70 lbs. and they each eat about 2 lbs. of meat/bone/organ + extras (eggs, kefir, veggies, supplements, etc.) per day. If you go to the raw food forum there’s a thread with recommended menus, you can check out what I feed my girls there. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a great book for beginners getting started on homemade raw.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[theBCnut]

Try rotating for the gut health of your dog. Feeding the same food all the time supports a limited number of types of probiotics. Feeding a good rotational diet will support more different strains, and probiotics in the gut are a major part of the digestive system.

Also usually within a brand their vitamin/mineral premix usually is the same, so anywhere where that brand has slightly too much or too little of something, your dog will always get that amount. By rotating to different brands you can even out those highs and lows.

Dogs definitely taste the differences in foods. They are are much more sensitive than we are to flavor and I know that mine appriciate a change. One of my dogs would only eat about every day and a half even though I offered food twice a day or when he was smaller 3 times a day. He grew up thinking that feeding time was blah, and he would only eat the absolute minimum. When I read about rotational feeding, I thought it sounded like a great idea for my dog with a sensitive stomach, but it turned out best for my picky dog. He has not missed a single meal in almost a year and a half.

BTW, my sensitve tummy dog doesn’t have a sensitive tummy anymore either! It’s all good!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by theBCnut.

[bigjake]

Hello again,Yes Food allergies, Our Jake is a pure white American bulldog. I planned on taking him to vet for testing..if I can find one that takes payments! We have been feeding him diamond foods, all flavors…still itchy, then went to their new beef grain free, more itchy..now were on taste of wild prairie mix and hes scratching worse than ever..The more we spend the more he scratches. I have read a lot in here and thinking we may need to switch to fish a veggies. I have saved a half dozen of old dog food bags to start goin thru ingredient lists!

[BluesMom]

I have been confused on this for a while. My dog is on Acana Lamb and Apple. He is 45 pounds and I have been giving him 1 1/2 cups a day. The bag says feed 2 cups a day for an active dog, which I consider him active, but he was having diarrhea. With the feeding reduction he is doing much better.

However, now he will have small, solid stool and then at the end there will be like a big drop of diarrhea. After this bag of food I will probably switch to Nutrisource, but as for now, I am wondering.. what causes this? The big drop is not bloody and does not have mucus and other than that he seems fine… good appetite, water intake…

What would be the cause of this? Anything other than the food? He never did well on Acana Grain-Frees so I thought this might be better with less protein and ingredients. He does well on Nutro Vension LID and Natural Balance LID but I want to feed him better than those.

Also, I have been reading a lot that Acana and Origen are “too rich for my dog”. What exactly does that mean? I don’t understand how a good quality food can be too rich… will the dog eventually adjust? I would just love to keep my dog on these brands but he always seems to have some sort of poop issue….

Hopefully this all makes sense. I seem to get more and more confused the more I read.. haha
Oh, and he is also on a probiotic, up to date on shots, and never gets people food…
Thanks to whoever attempts this answer!

[SandyandMila]

I thought I read somewhere on here someone had mentioned Puritan’s Pride Green Source but not sure where. Would think product be a multi/whole food/ green supplement all in one? I had seen this at a local natural food store and remembered someone mention it in here. When should it be used (homemade raw, commercial raw, kibble/canned). How much, would it be half the adult amount? If I get Natures Logic all-food fortifier, would I use it in conjunction with Green Source or alternate with it. I’m still confused with supplementing and when to give which.

[chartoll]

Oh, I thougt fresh meat was far better than canned food…. how knows what they put in there?
Yes, ofcourse you can read the table of contents, but for a “no-specialist” it sounds strange to buy fabricated foor in place of “real” food (meat)…

I’ve also been giving Duck’s Chicken and Energique as deepfrozen “fresh” meat when I had a litter

[Honeybeesmom1]

Thanks HDM, I have my list ready for order.
Honey went to vet and he believes he has Perineal Hernia. It wasn’t swollen while there…and wants
me to bring him back anytime that I see it swollen. He’s only seen this 4 times in 20 yrs.
I’m to give Miralax as a stool softener.

From what I’ve read – said most common in unneutered males ( Honey is fixed) and never mentioned Chihuahua’s, but Boston Terriers, Collies, Boxers & Pekingese.
Said it could require surgery…but he doesn’t do it. Makes me nervous as I don’t trust anyone else.
Any info. anyone can give…I appreciate.
I’ll know more – when I take him back so he can better look while it’s swollen.

[Hound Dog Mom]

EHubbman –

If you decide to go the strict prey model route be very careful. Most strict prey model diets are deficient in key nutrients unless synthetic supplements are added – there’s a reason why there are no meat/bone/organ grinds that conform to AAFCO standards (to my knowledge), they’re all labeled for intermittent or supplemental feeding only. The thing is, it’s not very difficult to conform to the AAFCO nutrient profiles either. Also if you’re visiting prey model forums take everything you read with a grain of salt – there is a lot of misinformation thrown around on these forums. As someone just starting out I would strongly recommend picking up a copy of “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown and “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Karen Becker. I also second everything Patty posted concerning the importance of antioxidants.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[pacer1978]

Thank you all for your suggestions. The problem that I have is finding these foods are not always easy. I also did think of purchasing online, but the shipping charges are crazy! I haven’t had any luck finding Fromm or some of the others you suggested or it seems the bags are so small for the cost. I also looked into Holistic Health. I read a lot about them and was pretty set on trying them out. But, again..can’t find it anywhere but online and including the shipping charges, it pushed the price of a bag to almost $100.

[ebk]

So, here’s where I am on my EVO replacement journey. Interesting that, if you go to their web site, they do a great job of identifying where their ingredients are sourced from. It’s actually quite impressive. However, the fact remains that a number of pet owners have noted observed differences between their old EVO and new EVO foods, in addition to the reactions from their pets. If it comes back, great. If not, many of us have already found alternatives. I’ve tried the Merrick Texas beef variety. Seemed like a very good food, but the kibble was small. So small, that my dogs would only be able to chew a small percentage of the kibbles and then just swallow the rest. I tried the Now Fresh Large Breed Adult dry food. Nice sized kibble, even bigger than EVO’s large kibble, and the dogs seem to enjoy it and what comes out the other end is well formed.

To complicate matters, my Malamute is a very picky eater. Her food tends to sit until she gets around to it or until my Lab eats it. The Malamute actually lost 15 lbs on her last visit to the vet, coming down to 110. The Lab is the alpha of the two and thinks all the food belongs to her. So, I have started to use canned food to add to the dry to stimulate the appetite of the Malamute, in order for her to get a full meal and keep my lab from getting heavier than she already is.

I have purchased a variety of canned foods: Fromm. Evanger’s Against the Grain, Merrick beef, Wellness Beef, Wellness Lamb. They seem to be enthusiastic about all of them so far (haven’t tried the Evanger’s yet). Interesting that you seem to have to dig a little harder to get to the bottom line on the canned foods. Some of them, dry foods as well, are outsourced to other suppliers. The companies don’t reveal who makes it for them. We tend to only find out when there is a recall, e.g., Diamond. I sent a message to Wellness, who used Diamond at one time, asking them if they outsource any of their food production to them. I also asked where their canned food ingredients came from. It’s been 1 1/2 weeks with no response.

So, with very loose controls over the pet food industry, the bottom line is caveat emptor. It is in forums like this that we can share with one another and get to the facts. Hopefully, with enough public pressure, the pet food industry will become more transparent and we won’t have to dig so much. Unfortunately, there are many people (majority?) in the world only do the right thing when they must. For those who do the right thing, only because it is the right thing to do, I salute them.

Sorry for the babbling and TMI. Thanks again for all of your help and advice!

[pacer1978]

Hello,
Hoping a few people out there can give me suggestions. I’ve been reading forums now for what seems like 2 weeks and still undecided. I have three dogs: 2 Weimaraners (12 yrs and 4 yrs old) and one mix (guessing on her age since she is a “rescue”) of maybe 10. All are female. With a few occurrences of allergies (I feel it is more airborne..grasses, pollen, dust/dander more than food related), they are pretty healthy. However, I believe in feeding good quality dog food since they are your kids. I was feeding them Nature’s Variety, both Prairie and Instinct formulas. Since Petco has a lack of protein (mainly beef and chicken, which I try not to give them since they say that is the most common protein used), I considered switching brands. I found Nature’s Domain (Kirkland’s brand), but realized Dog Food Advisor downgraded the brand to 3 stars. Can anyone suggest a reasonably affordable food (since I’m feeding three!), that doesn’t lack on quality (looking for at least 4-5 stars), AND processed by a manufacturer that has limited food recalls? I am currently trying out Sold Gold, but realized they are processed by Diamond and I don’t quite trust them since the many recalls I’ve read. Sorry for the long post…and thanks in advance!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi EHubbman –

It’s all pretty confusing when you start out isn’t it?

I would like to start out by saying I strongly disagree with those that say supplements aren’t necessary for a raw diet. The thing is, if a dog was eating whole wild prey daily this may be true but that’s not practical in real life. It would be next to impossible to feed an actual prey model diet so people approximate it by feeding ratios of muscle meat, organ meat and bone (80:10:10) that mimic the ratios found in a whole prey animal. While this is a good estimate of the dog’s natural diet, it’s not going to provide all the nutrients a dog needs for various reasons: 1) Your dog isn’t getting the whole animal. When a dog eats prey in the wild it eats everything – all the organs, the glands, the brain, eyeballs, fur, feathers, sinew, some intestines and intestinal content, it even picks up some dirt of the ground where it’s eating. 2) Commercially raised meat such as what is available to us in the supermarket is not as mineral dense as wild prey. 3) Domestic dogs are bombarded with toxins on a daily basis that their wild relatives aren’t – i.e.) flea treatments, heart worm treatments, vaccines, exhaust fumes, cleaning chemicals, etc. etc. – and for this reason benefit from additional antioxidants in their diet that are provides through fruits, vegetables and whole super foods.

You do not need to supplement with enzymes when feeding a raw diet. Raw food contains enzymes. These enzymes are destroyed when the food is cooked and this is why kibble and canned foods should be supplemented with enzymes. Probiotic supplements are also a waste of money unless you have a dog with serious digestive issues. Feeding green tripe and/or plain yogurt and/or kefir at least a few times a week will maintain a healthy population of gut flora in a healthy dog.

You will need to add supplemental omega 3’s. You can do this by adding a quality fish body oil, cage free eggs or feeding a fatty fish such as sardines. If you want to feed sardines the recommend servings are (based on 3.75 oz. tin): 5 lbs. 1/4 tin, 15 lbs. 1/2 tin, 25 lbs. 5/8 tin, 50 lbs. 1 tin, 100 lbs. 1 3/4 tin – per week. If giving fish oil you want to add enough to provide about 100 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 10 lbs. of body weight. While the majority of a dog’s omega 3’s should come from animal sources, some plant based omega 3’s can be beneficial as well. If you’re feeding predominantly poultry, flax should be given to balance the fats and if you’re feeding predominantly red meat hemp seed should be given to balance the fats. My dogs get a cage free egg 3 days per week, Carlson brand salmon oil complete (with astaxanthin) daily and I also give small amounts of sprouted flax, sprouted chia, etc. If not supplementing with vitamin d, you should give cod liver oil as well. Carlson makes the highest quality cod liver oil – my girls each get 1 capsule of Carlson Super Cod Liver Oil daily which provides 250 IU vitamin d. If giving fish oil it’s very important not to skimp on quality – fish oil is one supplement you don’t want to find a bargain on. The cheaper brands are often rancid at purchase and don’t contain enough antioxidants to prevent oxidation. Coconut oil, as Patty pointed out, is comprised of MCT’s. Coconut oil can be given in addition to (but not instead of) omega 3’s. Coconut oil has antibacterial and antifungal properties. You can give up to 1/2 tsp. per 10 lbs. of body weight daily. My girls get coconut oil daily, I find it’s a healthy way to increase the fat level of their meals.

As Sandy pointed out, vitamin e is also necessary to add – this is especially important when supplementing with omega 3’s as vitamin e prevents the delicate fats from oxidizing in the body. For dogs <25 add 50 – 100 IU per day, 25 – 50 lbs. 100 – 200 IU per day, 50 – 75 lbs. 200 – 300 IU per day, 75 – 100 lbs. 300 – 400 IU per day, >100 lbs. 400 IU per day. I use NOW Foods Gamma E Complex – it has all 8 tocopherols and tocotrienols.

Other supplements my dogs get:

-A homemade super food mix. I generally use 1 part kelp, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part spirulina, 1 part wheat grass and 1 part bee pollen although I’ll sometimes sub in a different ingredient for variety. I buy most of my ingredients from Swanson or Starwest Botanicals in 1 lb. bags. This provides vital trace nutrients to the diet. I’d recommend about 1 tsp per 25 – 30 lbs. (roughly) for a supplement such as this.

-I give my dogs colostrum 3 days per week. Colostrum is high in immunoglobulins which helps strengthen the immune system.

-They get a glandular 3 days per week (opposite the colostrum). I use Natural Sources Raw Multiple.

If you read through the raw menu section I have my dog’s full menus (with supplements) posted.

I prefer to balance my dog’s diets using whole foods versus adding synthetic supplements. The nutrients from whole foods are more efficiently assimilated by the body and contain all the necessary co-factors for optimal absorption and utilization. There’s also a much lower chance of overdosing on nutrients when using whole foods.

If you have any more questions don’t be afraid to ask. 🙂

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Sussieque]

Dear ORENC26,

RE: Diarrhea in Puppies

I also recently got a Cavalier King Charles puppy. She had the same problem with diarrhea (really bad). When I first got her @ 9 weeks old, the previous owner was feeding her Purina Special Blend (i think).

Anyways, we had rain here for over a week straight. Poor baby had to do her business in the rain and walk on the wet grass. I took her to the vet for her second vaccination and was told that she had a Yeast infection (in her ears which also gets in their digestive system) The vet gave me an anti-fungal med., an ear med. (Zymox is better) and a stool hardener. You can use Imodium Advance. ONLY 1/4 tablet daily and for just a 2 days!!! (go by weight of dog) Brandi was 5 lbs. then.

She (Brandi) got a little better but still had some diarrhea problems. I researched the internet and spoke with the vet & a local breeder.

They all suggested to feed her Boiled Chicken (white meat to start) with cooked white rice, mixed with some 100% Pumpkin. I fed this to her for 2 weeks. (note: adding a good vitamin may help but check the ingredients carefully!). After feeding Brandi the Chicken-rice combo for 2-3 weeks I wanted to get her back on a dry (kibble) puppy food. I chose “Orijen” Brand 80/20 Puppy dry food. Available at most Pet Stores and online.

I mixed it 50/50 with the Orijen and Purina One Beyond (White Meat Chicken & Whole Barley flavor) and 1 heaping Tablespoon of 100% Pumpkin. (NOT the pumpkin pie filling!!!) I introduced this mixture over 10 days (see the internet on how to do this). On the 10th. day she was eating just the dry kibble food with the pumpkin. At this point I added a Probiotic (you can pick up at pet stores – capsule form and read how much to add per day – goes by weight). Come to find out that the Orijen 80/20 puppy dry food has natural Pre & Pro Biotics (for GOOD bacteria for their digestive system) in their puppy food.

DIARRHEA IS COMPLETELY GONE!!!!! Thank God!

I still give her the Orijen and the Purina One Beyond with pumpkin (she is 3.5 months old now) Still NO diarrhea. : ) HAPPY MOMMY HERE.

I think I will switch to Acana Brand – Wild Prairie dry kibble soon because it is a bit less expensive and made by the same company. Plus it has less of a high protein content. Below are their websites:

Orijen: http://www.orijen.ca/
Acana: http://www.acana.com/products/regionals/wild-prairie/

These pet foods are made in Canada with only natural products (Grain Free). They have their own Processing Plant and process ONLY their dog and cat foods. BTW – My cats love their 6 Fish Dry Cat Food.

These foods are a bit more than your cheaper store-bought brands but worth getting rid of the diarrhea for good. Plus knowing she is healthy, happy and growing as she should be.

Hope this helps and good luck with your new baby cavalier. Precious, aren’t they? ; )
Sussieque

[theBCnut]

WOW!! That is a lot of questions. Some of them HDM is the best source for answers, but I can tackle a few.

Probiotics are the good micro-organisms in the gut and they are a huge part of the immune system, because they compete with bad micro-organisms and thereby keep their numbers small. They are naturally occurring in tripe.

Prebiotics are food for probiotics, they are fibers that the probiotics love, they aren’t all created equal though, some prebiotics feed the bad stuff just as well as the good.

Enzymes carry nutrients where they need to go in the body and aid in digestion. There are already enzymes in raw meat, but in processing for kibble they are destroyed. Dogs make enzymes, but some do not make enough, because they were made to get them out of their food. And the body adjusts enzyme production to match the diet, so if a dog was getting a high carb, low protein diet for a long time, it may take a while for its body to get used to the different need for enzymes when the diet is changed. Digestive enzymes are the ones that are specific to digestion.

Spirulina is a blue green algae that is chockful of micronutrients, which are all the little things that a body probably needs, but science hasn’t determined how much of what or what for, so dog food companies don’t have to add them back into the food.

Fish oil, fish body oil are sources of omega 3s and need to be fresh so putting it in a bag of kibble may not be a good thing. Krill are little shrimp, otherwise the same applies to fish oil. Krill oil is supposed to be better. It has some of those micronutritents in it and a higher level of quality omega 3s.

As for why some say use them, don’t use them etc. There are what I consider raw food purists, that don’t feed anything except whole carcass raw prey. Period. They believe that since that is how wolves evolved, that is what you should feed dogs. Then there are those that recognize that we don’t live in that world anymore. That the world we do live in has pollution and food animals that were not raised as prefectly as we could want and therefore are lacking some of those things that if we lived in a perfect world they would have. They feed antioxidant rich foods to help rid the body of toxins and other foods to help make up for the perceived lack in the prey animals. And then there is every shade in between.

My fingers hurt, someone else will have to provide more. Or I will later.

[Hershy]

Hi, Patty,
Thanks for your post. Well said about the topic of Vets and animal nutrition…always room for improvement, right?…by me, too! I definitely plan to do a much better job feeding my “kids” a delicious and healthy diet.

HI, HDM & Patty,
And looks like I may get a second chance with my Charlotte girl. I am thankful that Charlotte’s cancer screen came back negative yesterday evening, but Vet held back saying there was none, in that she said she sampled only a small portion, so could still be early stages. I’ll take that, and look at it as another chance to do a better job with her. If she has it, at least it is very early.
Thanks, HDM and Patty, for encouraging me to go ahead with the test. Of course I needed to know. Not sure what I was thinking.
Now, moving forward with her new diet, mostly raw. I will start with her, and slowly add the other 3. Although I have already transitioned all to 4 & 5 star kibble. I top my puppy, Crystal’s, Nutri-Source Lg. Breed puppy food with Merrik Grain Free Tripe, and the 3 big dogs have been getting Pro Balance Canned as a topper.
I can’t thank you all enough for this education I continue to receive. How I nourish my dogs will keep improving, and I will definitely keep in touch with this forum.
Will soon add the raw food forum to my list of preferred reading : )
Patty, hope your dog’s result was at least as good.
Thanks, again!

[Cyndi]

Hi everyone! I guess, by reading this thread, my question is for Hound Dog Mom, or should I say “Hot” Dog Mom! Lol! Sorry! I will never do that again, lol!

Anyways, I am driving to New Jersey next week with Bailey. It’s a 7 hour drive. I have a cooler for her food. My question is, I’m wondering if, in 7 hours, if her food will thaw out, and does it matter if it does and if I can just refreeze it once I get to where I’m going? I have like 4 ice packs and I will get some regular ice to cover her food once it’s in the cooler, so I don’t know if stuff will completely thaw or not, but I would imagine it’s ok to refreeze the stuff.

Another question, for anyone that has traveled with their dog that is raw fed, is there any problems that you ran into or anything that might help me in knowing ahead of time, so I can prevent it from happening to me? Like, maybe you forgot something, or didn’t use enough ice, or in my case I’m wondering how I’m going to make sure her dinner is thawed enough to eat, cuz she’ll be eating on the road…

Any help/tips anyone can give me would be GREATLY appreciated!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Is Mila eating a homemade diet or commercial diet? (Sorry I’m drawing a blank here – I know you were trying raw but I can’t remember if you switched her completely to homemade raw or are just supplementing a commercial food with raw). If you’re feeding predominantly a commercially prepared balanced food (be it raw, kibble, etc.) I personally feel Mila would benefit much more from a whole food based supplement as opposed to a supplement such as this which consists of mostly synthetic vitamins and minerals (for more details on the benefits of whole food supplementation you can read the post I just made to sharkie on the large breed puppy thread). If she’s eating homemade food and you were planning on using this as a vitamin/mineral supplement, it’s not going to supply adequate levels of vitamin e or manganese (I don’t think I see managanese?) and I still feel that a whole food based supplement should be given in conjunction with a multivitamin/mineral. Sorry if any of this is repeated information or was already discussed, my brain isn’t all here today and I’m forgetting who I’ve talked to, what was said by who, etc. lol

[Woodcutter]

Hi HDM. On the front label it reads: made with real chicken and goes on with Chelated minerals for better absorption. Sounds good so far, next line is “good omega 6 to 3 ratio”
bran & flaxseed….product of USA
on the back;:Chicken, chicken broth, beef liver, beef lung, ocean fish, oat bran, tomato paste, flaxseed flour, and after this is a bunch of elements & vitamins and minerals

their guaranteed analysis:
crude protien(min)….9%
crude fat(min)………..6%
crude fiber(max)…….1.5%
moisture(max)……….78%
It goes on to say it meets nutrition levels of AAFCO for all stages of a dogs life.
So this food doesn’t look all that bad really and it made me wonder why it’s at Big Lots. I have bought other canned food from them and after checking here I was too leery to feed it and got rid of it. I think it was Harmony Farms. or some such. It looks as though it would rate at least a 4, maybe a 5 but I just don’t know if there have been any problems with the maker.

[Cyndi]

You are totally right Marie!! I am SO very thankful I found this site. I had ended up on a couple other ones before here, and some of the info I was reading on them, contradicted things I had read in many other places. I also tried to ask a question on a forum and, more or less, got “yelled” at for asking an off topic question. A few days later I ended up here and the rest, as they say, is history, lol! As you can see I never left!

I have an “on topic” statement. I ordered Bailey a whole prey quail today. I’ll be honest, I’m a little nervous about it. Not for Bailey, but for me, lol! Hopefully I don’t pull it out of the box and think ‘Awwww, the poor bird. I can’t feed this to my dog!’. Lol! I will just have to keep in my head that Bailey will love it, and it’s good for her and it’s something new and different and it’s her dinner! Lol! Wish me luck! 🙂

[k9cancer]

theres a lot of info on what to feed a puppy here on the forum. search calcium levels in the forum. You wi get a list of recommended foods based o calcium levels

The thread PugMom suggested is a GREAT one, and helped me figure out what to feed my Presa Canario pup (mastiff).
What you’ll find in the thread is that the protein content for large breeds is not nearly as important as the calcium and phosphorous levels. Hound Dog Mom put together a great list of 4 and 5 star grain free foods for large breed pups.

[Hound Dog Mom]

HI corrielainedd –

Wow, a Saint Berdoodle. I’d never heard of such a dog but I just googled it – pretty neat! Growing large and giant breed puppies need controlled levels of calcium as excess calcium has been linked to developmental orthopedic disease. When puppies are very young they are unable to regulate calcium absorption, they gain this ability around the age of 8 months. So I would say, given the fact that your pup is already 8 months old and through the most rapid phase of growth there’s really no reason to start watching calcium levels now. I would just suggest focusing on getting him on some high quality foods that fall within your budget. Look for a food approved for growth or all life stages – there’s no reason to go with a large breed puppy specific formula. Your adult dog can eat the same food – just be sure to adjust portions accordingly because growth and all life stages foods tend to be more calorie dense. Professional is a decent food for a good price, however it’s manufactured by Diamond who has frequent recalls. Some reasonably priced grain-free foods that you may want to check out: Victor, Earthborn, Hi-Tek Naturals Grain-Free, NutriSource, 4Health (sold at Tractor Supply), Pure Balance Grain-Free (sold at Walmart), Rachel Ray Zero Grain, Authority Grain-Free (sold at Petsmart). Some foods with grains that are budget friendly: Victor, Hi-Tek Naturals, Whole Earth Farms, Pure Balance, Fromm Classics, Healthwise, NutriSource and Natural Life. The only thing I would tell you to be aware of when looking for a cheaper grain-free food is that, unfortunately, many budget friendly grain-free foods are actually worse than grain-inclusive foods at a similar price point. Grain-free doesn’t necessarily mean better and many companies just replace the grains with white potatoes, tapioca or peas which doesn’t make a superior product. Try to maximize protein. I ‘d also recommend picking a few foods and rotating rather than sticking to only one.

[Shawna]

Hi Lagotto,

We noticed (at the breeders) that she had excessive drinking and urination, as compared to her 5 siblings, when she was about 6 weeks old. She came to live with me when she was 9 weeks old. At about 4 weeks old she started failing to thrive — because she had a collapsing trachea and couldn’t get enough milk from her mommy. So the breeder put her on raw goat milk and egg whites, syringe fed every 2 to 4 hours, til she could eat on her own. She was weaned onto raw food — mainly hamburger, eggs, raw milk etc.

When she came to me I was making a home made raw diet for my current dogs and she went on that same diet. At her vet visit I told her holistic vet she urinated/drank a lot but her vet poo poo’d my concern and said puppies drink and therefore urinate more. She has bright eyes, she’s very smart, good coat quality etc. She’s a healthy puppy… In looking back I’m actually thankful that happened. Audrey continued on the homemade raw diet til her one year checkup where her bloodwork showed high bun and creatinine. I started tweaking her diet and would take her in every three months for additional bloodwork to see what the tweaking was doing. Turns out, the diet I had been feeding her all along was the best for her with one exception. To the diet I added a “prebiotic” and probiotics to help lower her BUN. Works like a charm..

Audrey continued on the homemade diet for several years but then I got too busy to keep up with homemade exclusively so I started incorporating commercial raw diets — Bravo as an example. Became busier yet and moved exclusively to commercial raw — Bravo, Darwins, Answers (recently started) and premixes like The Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve’s Premix with raw meats.. Audrey turned 7 years old the end of June and is still going strong. I have NOT lowered her protein. I have not lowered her phosphorus or made any other changes than adding prebiotic/probiotic and supplements. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense probiotic and Fiber35’s Sprinkle Fiber as the prebiotic. A really good prebiotic, made specifically for dogs, can be found on Dr. Mercola’s website under the “Pets” link and then under “Products”.

I would NOT regularly feed her kibble if I was paid to do so. In my opinion, kibble will cause a much earlier death in a kidney disease dog.. Kibble is a POOR QUALITY food for kd dogs/cats—even the best kibbles on the market… At the very least, feed a canned diet. If you can, feed raw or lightly cooked. I also don’t feed Audrey any grains. IF you are going to feed grains it needs to be either sushi rice (aka glutinous rice) or cream of wheat (or farina). These two grains are low phosphorus. All other grains have higher phosphorus and don’t add anything to the diet that can’t be found in a more species appropriate food.

You also want to feed higher fat foods — ditch the lean ground beef.. Feed the highest fat foods you can get (unless she is showing signs of pancreatitis). Fat adds calories without phosphorus—adding organic coconut oil is a good idea too. Protein is NOT damaging to the kidneys and only needs to be reduced to prevent symptoms of uremia in the later stages of the disease — such as vomiting or depression. Audrey has NEVER to date ate low protein.

Let her have ALL the water she wants. Audrey used to sleep in the water bowl when it was empty — she was that obsessed with water and, I’m guessing, desperately trying to tell me she needed some. She started this, sleeping in water dish, at the breeders. I kept potty pads ALL over the house for her. I was lucky in that she used them. During the night I keep her in a 4 foot by 4 foot enclosure we made (for our foster puppies). It was made out of wood and plastic chicken wire. I had her water bowl, her kennel, a blanket outside the kennel and a potty pad with LOTS of newspapers under it — she would fill a potty pad to the point of leaking during the night. As she got older she was able to hold it. Since about three months of age she has slept with me in my bed at nights.

Darwins now has a kidney diet.. I haven’t seen it yet but I do think it is worth checking out. Urban Wolf has a premix designed for kd dogs that can be added to raw or home cooked meats. And I think Grandma Lucy’s has a lower phosphorus premix that is also suitable for dogs needing their phos lowered..

Also consider adding a whole food B and C vitamin to the diet. These two vitamins are “water soluble” and because of the excessive urination can become depleted if not supplemented. I use Standard Process Cataplex B and C. I also give Audrey a whole food multi as a precaution. I use Standard Process Catalyn. Standard Process also makes a whole food supplement specifically for dogs with kidney disease. It’s called Canine Renal Support — I HIGHLY recommend using it. I also give liver support also by Standard Process — Canine Hepatic Support. The liver can become overstressed in a kd dog.

I HIGHLY recommend only using reverse osmosis or distilled along with a mineral water like Evian. Mineral waters (only those lower in sodium) have shown some positive benefits to kidney patients.

Also try to eliminate as many chemical toxins from your house as possible. I was already living in a relatively toxin free environment but I had to eliminate my Swiffer mop, candles ets. These have chemicals in them that the kidneys have to filter — putting an extra strain on them OR adding to the blood poisoning when the kidneys can’t filter as well. DO NOT use flea/tick or heartworm meds on her. And DO NOT vaccinate her. Audrey has only had one set of shots (given by the breeder before I got her) and has NEVER had a rabies shot. She was diagnosed before getting the shot and I was able to get a lifelong exemption for her in my state.

As mentioned, Audrey turned 7 last month and is not on any medications (no phosphorus binders, no sub-q fluids etc) just the supplements.

I don’t use it but I know others that have had positive results with the herbal tinctures from Five Leaf Pharmacy. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/ I would NOT follow their diet though… 🙂 http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

I would also highly recommend reading the material on Mary Straus’ dog aware website. This is the site where I got most of my knowledge / as well as courage to continue feeding Audrey a high protein raw diet. She has some EXCELLENT info on the site — when to feed low protein, when to lower phosphorus and how much (phosphorus is an essential mineral – lowering it too much too early can have unintended consequences), which foods are lower in phosphorus etc. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

Your puppy can still have a fantastic quality of life.. Learn as much as you can, stay positive and enjoy her fully!!!!!

If you ever want to chat offsite, I can be reached at shawnadfaemail @ yahoo. com (take out the spaces–they are included here to prevent robot spammers from sending me junk mail).. 🙂

[mah4angel]

Hello all!

I’ll admit to being woefully ignorant and making bad and uniformed decisions for my Louie plenty of times (i.e. thinking that raw would be bad for him, thinking that kibble is better for cleaning teeth, etc.), but I’m afraid that choosing Banfield and their Optimum Wellness Plan might have been the worst decision yet…

I just feel that they make up for the savings in office visits, etc. by hiking up the prices for every single other thing NOT covered on the plan. For instance, I’ve been wanting to get Louie neutered. It would cost me about $400 at Banfield to get him neutered. OUCH. They’re also more expensive for typical grooming. A nail grind costs about $5 more at Banfield than at the ADJOINING Pet Smart Grooming salon, same with anal gland expression, etc.

I had Louie on a HW preventative from another vet (Quadriguard) which they had never heard of. Fine, that is 100% a-okay. There are so many HW pills out there, I’m sure, and I’m sure there’s just no way that you’d know the names and properties of every single one of them. BUT they clearly never looked it up or asked me to take it in so they could see what it was/what it covered. There are wormers in Quadriguard already but they kept having me give him wormers (after him testing negative for heartworms). They also kept asking me if I wanted to put him on a HW preventative even though I’d told every single one of the vet techs and both of the vets that I already have him protected.

I’ve read a lot recently about how people find Banfield as a corporation to be sub-par as far as veterinary work is concerned and that they’re quite money-grubbing and a total rip-off. I’m starting to see a little bit of this in them but I DO like my vet and Louie seems to really like her. She’s very kind, approachable, and seems to have her heart in the right place. I don’t know, though, that she’s technically great at her job, purely from a medical standpoint. I really don’t know that I know how to tell, though… she does seem to be more than willing and ready to hand out medications (free or not) for Louie and I don’t know that I like that.

Do any of you have good or bad experiences with Banfield? I just can’t help but notice that reviews by their customers are simply overwhelmingly bad. I don’t know, maybe I’m just being paranoid and seeing things that aren’t there because of the negativity from others.

I’d love to hear your feedback! I’m trying to find a holistic vet, but it’s proving to be kind of a pain in the butt (my dog gets incredibly carsick so commuting to the vet is a hard one-whereas PetSmart is within walking distance from my house). Thanks guys!

[ShihTzuOwner]

To start things off, I am a first time puppy/dog owner so I’m a rookie but I’m getting the handle of my 2 month old Shih Tzu.

My puppy was eating Purina Puppy Chow [GARBAGE] before he became mine and I knew that the food was just not healthy seeing as how a large bag was just $8 at Walmart. So I Googled around and found out that Blue Buffalo’s Puppy Food as seen below….

was an excellent alternative. Grain-Free, No Preservatives, generally much better then most dry puppy food selections out there.

As a first time puppy owner, I did make the mistake of switching the food in just one day and suffered the dreaded diarrhea problem but some white rice with chicken relieved it and I did the whole 50/50, 75/25, 100/0 new to old dog food trick.

My MAIN problem and I do not know whether it’s the food I’m giving him, is that he itches ALOT. He always scratches near his ears and his neck constantly. Now, I didn’t keep him on the Purina Puppy Chow long enough for me to find out if the issue was also relevant with that dog food as well or JUST Blue Buffalo. I took him to the vet and his ears were fine. There appears to be no flea problem so my only conclusion was that it could POSSIBLY be the food.

So I wanted to know if there are any recommendations you guys can give me based on the age and breed of the puppy and his troublesome itch. I heard Blue Buffalo has a Basics Formula but the review it got on this site [which I trust] makes me hesitant to buy that alternative. I’ve heard of Orijen but that seems to be too much of a high protein formula for such a young pup and for Shih Tzu’s.

[Honeybeesmom1]

Hi everyone.

I noticed about a week ago a lump on the left side of Honeybees butt…about the size of a gumball.
It keeps going away and coming back. At times it’s more soft and other times more hard.
I’ve read a little about anal glands and cysts but how do I know which one it is?
Does he need to see a vet in order to determine what it is? I have no idea what to think of it.
His vet is more of meds than natural…so I’m asking here first.

Also…I’m making my first purchase of Darwins! I’m excited as I’ve read good things here about it.
Honey is only 5 lbs. I can afford to feed him Darwins twice a day..and the others once per day.
What feeding would be best for him? Raw once or twice daily?
He’s the sensitive one that’s allergic to fleas, grass and pollen.
So I’m thinking raw twice daily?
Thanks! :0)

[theBCnut]

First, read the whole thread on Large and Giant Puppy Nutrition. Next, Swanson’s has cheap but good probiotics that you can order online. Look for Dr Stephen Langers probiotics and while your there get some digestive enzymes to use until this issue is sorted out. Finally, ask your vet to send a stool sample to the lab for analysis, they catch things that your vet may have no way of finding. Good Luck!!

[Anonymous]

I have just had similar experiences as that on page 2 of the thread where Swissy Mix talks about her Bernese/Greater Swiss mix throwing up on Taste of the Wild puppy food. I have an almost 8 month old Bernese male who is right around 80 lbs. We got him at 8 weeks old and started him on Blue Buffalo and then as I researched how to feed larger breed dogs, I decided to switch him to TOTW. They have puppy formulas now that are 1.4% calcium / 1.0% phosphorus, which I thought was in line with what he needed. I’ve been alternating between the 2 varieties now for around 4 or 5 months without any issues.

As of the last 3 days though, Walter has also thrown up his food 3 separate times right after eating. I tend to think it is because the kibble is too small for him and he’s not chewing like he needs to. The end result of his vomiting makes it clear that he doesn’t need to bother chewing his food. I tried feeding him in a larger, more shallow bowl so he can’t inhale and we have stopped feeding him right after he comes in the house and is all hot. I thought the problem might be a combination of being too hot, eating too fast, not chewing enough. However, this morning right after he woke up he did it, so I guess it is either just the not chewing issue or the food itself. I don’t think it is a puppy issue, because he seems perfectly fine otherwise.

So my questions are as follows:

1. Does anyone know of a good food that has larger bites and still stays in the recommended ranges of cal/phosphorus? I guess it may have to be an all life stage or adult formula. I hate to be a stickler on price, but I feel like I’m already spending a lot on what he is on to make sure his food is higher quality, so I’d like to stay in line with TOTW, which is about $50 / 30 lb. bag.

2. How do you tell proper weight of a dog as hairy as a BMD? His weight is right in line with what he’s always averaged (about 10 lbs. / month), but he has such long, wavy hair, it struggle to tell if I’m feeding him enough or too much. I’ve been staying within the guidelines recommended on the bag, but it’s kind of hard to tell for sure. Any tips?

3. Any suggestions for getting him to slow down on his eating? He doesn’t have to compete with any other dogs, so there’s really no need for him to eat like he does.

[pugmomsandy]

Be sure that your using recipes for making a nutritionally complete food. Feeding an unbalanced homemade food is worse than feeding kibble as it will be nutritionally deficient in certain vitamins, minerals, trace elements and omega fatty acids that are required for a healthy dog.

/choosing-dog-food/karen-becker-best-worst-dog-food/

There are many recipe books available. And also DogAware.com has a homemade diet section. Nature’s Logic has a food supplement and there is also Missing Link.

I use “Real Foods for Healthy Dogs and Cats” 3rd Edition by Becker/Shaw. Another good read is “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown.

[LindaW]

Stupid question from me, but I’m a senior–hey, what can I say? To find the large breed puppy thread, do I look under “forums”? I couldn’t find it there.

[Hershy]

I also love this thread!
But I’m glad I’m not the only person here who remains a little (or a lot) confused. LOL!
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU, AGAIN, HOUND DOG MOM, FOR THE GREAT LIST!!!

What a lot of time you spent for us all compiling this vital information…I spent a lot of time reading the back of bags in Southern Ag and others, trying to figure out my choice for Crystal, my 13 week old (precious) labrador pup, and still don’t have a choice. But now with the list, at least I can decide from those. I really do appreciate it!
I like Chewy.com as well, if they carry the food…or Petflow, depending on which carries the food I decide on…pretty certain it won’t be local. Victor Pro All Life Stages for my big dogs is local.
Did I say, “I love this thread!”…I have learned so much. And to think of the foods I fed before I thought I knew what I was doing… I’m so glad I know better now. I love my sweet Charlotte, Jake, Bella, Jazz, and little Crystal!! They are all such good kids!
I wish they would teach nutrition in Veterinary school. Seems all the vets think Science Diet is a healthy food. I just wonder why something so basic is missing??
Thanks, again, HDM, and all !!
Londa

[Hershy]

I also love this thread!
But I’m glad I’m not the only person here who remains a little (or a lot) confused. LOL!
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU, AGAIN, HOUND DOG MOM, FOR THE GREAT LIST!!!

What a lot of time you spent for us all compiling this vital information…I spent a lot of time reading the back of bags in Southern Ag and others, trying to figure out my choice for Crystal, my 13 week old (precious) labrador pup, and still don’t have a choice. But now with the list, at least I can decide from those. I really do appreciate it!
I like Chewy.com as well, if they carry the food…or Petflow, depending on which carries the food I decide on…pretty certain it won’t be local. Victor Pro All Life Stages for my big dogs is local.
Did I say, “I love this thread!”…I have learned so much. And to think of the foods I fed before I thought I knew what I was doing… I’m so glad I know better now. I love my sweet Charlotte, Jake, Bella, Jazz, and little Crystal!! They are all such good kids!
Thanks, again, HDM, and all !!
Londa

[Flossie]

Thanks, everyone. I’ll definitely check out your suggestions, BetsyGreer!

InkedMarie, I think I’m aiming for anything less than .3% dry matter sodium content (or around 50-80mg per 100 kcal); my vet hasn’t actually said he needs to go on a low-sodium diet, but so much of what I’ve read about CHF advocates controlling sodium intake and I thought it would be a good idea to at least be aware of it. Of course, it’s confusing; some of the companies I’ve contacted have given me a percentage “as fed” instead of the dry matter content (which I only just learned is the percentage I should be looking out for). I don’t want to severely restrict him yet, just make sure his food isn’t high in sodium.

I’ll admit that I’m not as concerned about Diamond as a lot of people here, since I feed all 3 of my dogs 4Health right now (I just discovered that the dry food is made by Diamond). And I think that eventually I could probably find anecdotal evidence against every brand, since I doubt one exists that hasn’t ever had a complaint. Ideally, though, I’d love to find a brand with no history of recalls that strikes the right balance of good nutritional profile, affordability, availability, and lower sodium content–but I realize that might be a pipe dream.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Goldenlover,

Patty & HDM offered some great suggestions to make your current food more palatable, but it sounds like you’re also interested in finding a quality food that is still affordable and appeals to your dog.

Have you taken a look at this list of 5 Star Dry Foods: /dog-food-reviews/dry/5-star/?

Or this list of Best Foods (which includes 4 and 5 Star Foods): /best-dog-foods/best-dry-dog-foods/

Yes, Nature’s Domain from Kirkland is inexpensive and many of those on these lists aren’t, but there are still some that are affordable ~ probably many are still more than Kirkland’s ND. Also, ND is grain free and Rachael Ray Nutrish is grain inclusive and both of these lists include both grain free and inclusive formulations. One thing I’m not thrilled with the ND about is that it’s made by Diamond, which if you’re not already aware, has a horrible history of recalls and their handling of same. I don’t do any Diamond products and know there are others who feel the same.

If you like the Rachael Ray Nutrish product, you might also try the RR Zero Grain Nutrish, that’s a four star product, but it’s a bit more expensive than the RR Nutrish. Other more affordable foods you might want to check into are 4Health Grain Free (available at TSC), Victor, NutriSource, Earthborn Holistics, Dr. Tim’s, Fromm, Hi-Tek, Nutrisca, Pro Pac and Whole Earth Farms. Nature’s Logic is a bit more expensive, but a really great product.

Lots of foods have “loyalty” programs, like NutriSource for example, buy 12 and get one free. You can go to the NutriSource website and enter a contest to win a free bag of food and if you don’t win (I’m still trying) you’ll at least get a two dollar coupon emailed to you. Rachael Ray always has coupons available for the Zero Grain Nutrish on the website. Also, some online retails outlets will offer a discount for auto-ship orders, but you still have the ability to change shipping frequency and add or change items.

Five stars are great, so are four stars when your dog loves the food and does great on it!

[Flossie]

I have another thread about looking for sodium content on 4Health, which my dog with CHF currently eats. I’ve considered switching, though, and I’ve contacted all three of these companies, who have been really helpful and forthcoming with their sodium info. All three have varieties with a low sodium content.

But even though they have good official reviews on this site, the comments on the reviews have me worried. Apparently a lot of dogs on Canidae have suddenly experienced digestive issues, some people don’t like Blue for various reasons, and Nutro might have had a formula change.

I guess I can rule out the Canidae since there are quite a few posts about issues with it (has anyone reported this to the company?), but I’m not sure how to choose between Blue and Nutro. Does anybody have any further info about them, or another perspective on the issues people might have with them?

I think I’m just overwhelmed–it seems impossible to find a food that has a good nutritional profile, doesn’t have any issues with quality control, has readily available info about sodium, AND is easy to find and not ridiculously expensive. Does a food that fits all those requirements actually exist?

[Nir_g5]

Hello ,
I have a four years old alaskan malamute male.
The dog is generally very healthy.weighting 62 pounds.
I feed him once a day.
The dog is active.
I always tried to upgrade his food quality .
But every time, when i got to point of homemade diet
it has been failed.
I read dr.becker’s and beth’s book,so i have the
knowledge.

The story goes like this :when feeding dry grained food like
canine caviar
and the stools are fine ,but eating dry foods with no grains
causes loose stools.
On the other hand,when feeding grain free canned food
and the stools are fine.
But when i made homemade diet raw or cooked with
grains or grains free and the stools are loose .

Here is the story from the last 3 days:

On Monday evening, i fed him peal millet canine caviar with
water which soften the food .
Result :fine stools

On Tuesday evening :small amount of home made cooked diet : 230 grams of cooked chicken breast ,100 cooked chicken liver ,100 gram of green pepper ,60 grams of carrot.caloric value:660

Result:the end of the stool was
loose with black color (maybe of the liver).

On Wednesday evening:grained home made diet : 280 grams of cooked chicken breast ,100 cooked chicken liver ,100 gram of green pepper ,100 grams of carrot,150 grams of cooked whole brown rice .cloric value :880

What do you think? what is best way to feed my dog ?
What are the possible reasons for these results ?

Thanks
Nir

[Sully’sMom]

Ok, here goes, Hound Dog Mom, InkedMarie, Pattyvaughn and anyone else 🙂

Sully is now 13 mos; he has been fed FrommGoldLargeBreedPuppy. I’ve been reading this wonderful forum, learning alot, and planning on transitioning him out of puppy and to……

I’ve taken what I’ve learned here, done some of my own research and decided on feeding a rotational diet of grain-free, and I’ve narrowed the brands down to:

1. ) Fromm Four Star – the most expensive of what I’ve narrowed down to, but I have a free bag of Surf & Turf waiting to be opened, so this will be our first transition. They do offer a frequent bag reward program on this brand at Chewy, so we’ll see if we continue.
2.) Earthborn – most likely the Primitive Natural
3.) Merrick – something other than the chicken, since the Earthborn Primitive Natural is turkey and chicken
4.) Dr Tim’s – I like everything I read about the company, including the price, but their grain free is only in one formula and is chicken based. Was hoping for another different protein base to round out the above.
5.) Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost – we went through some trial bags, and I like the premise but I think it will end up being cost prohibitive.

So, I’m thinking that after we use the Fromm Surf and Turf bag that we have, I thought my rotation will be either Fromm, Earthborn, Merrick OR Earthborn, Merrick, Dr. Tim’s. Either way, here’s where I’m stuck:

Among these four brands/varieties, the Protein Percentages range from a low of 28 (Fromm) to a high of 38% (The Earthborn Primitive and all of the Merrick). The Kcals vary from a low of 408 (Fromm) to a high of 460 (three of the Merrick varieties). Am I supposed to try to keep the protein % AND Kcals consistent among the rotation?

I feel like I’m at the finish line but can’t cross, lol! Help?

[polyxen]

I’m about to get a 2nd Vizsla here, my first one was grown on a low quality food, full of grain, rice, meal etc etc… stools were really really really softs if not liquid… but that’s what my breeder uses so I let her on that.
I use Acana Pacifica right now for my Vizsla and wow … she’s athletic, hard dry stools once a day, eat 2cup a day .. I think it’s a really good dog food for that kind of dog.

I wanted to know if the Orijen puppy was suitable for this king of puppy, with all I’ve read on calcium, protein level etc… !

Need advice please !

Thanks !

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Please Pass the Calgon –

Unfortunately, many pet store employees aren’t very well versed in nutrition – especially those that work at the big box stores such as Petsmart and Petco. I know it’s all a lot to take in and and can be a little overwhelming. If you’re a new large breed puppy owner I think the articles I posted links to at the beginning of this thread would be a great place to start researching. As far as calcium – you want to control calcium levels until the puppy is at least 8 months old. High protein is preferable, I personally prefer foods to contain at least 30% protein. I would say that raw would be the best option, followed by canned or dehydrated and then kibble. Feel free to ask any questions if they come up – either here in the forums or on the review section of the site. There are many knowledgeable posters here just waiting to help.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Patty that there’s no book that will tell you everything – I personally like to read many books and articles and take bits and pieces that I like from each and implement them into my feeding plan. However, if I had to pick an overall favorite book it would be “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. It’s an especially great book for those new to homemade diets.

[NicoBoxer]

Hello – I am new here, although I’ve lurked on the DFA site at those threads. This could be long, so bear with me. We rescued a 3-year old boxer last year who had “allergies.” We have two vets, a conventional one, and a holistic one, to whom we travel three hours each way when he needs to see her. We started taking Nico to her when all we were getting from conventional vets was Pred, then antibiotics or antifungals for secondary infections. You know the drill. Since transitioning Nico to a raw diet with supplements (enzymes, probiotics, a Chinese herb formula, and other herbs) Nico has done much better. His coat has improved, he itches much less (almost not at all in the winter). He’s still been on 5 mg of pred every other day, however, and vets agree that this is OK.
That said, we’ve done a few blood work ups on him and each time, all seemed normal except his Lipase. It was through the roof; it has “come down” to something like 4,000 when the high end is something like 1,600. I could be slightly off on that last number. We ultimately decided to do a separate draw and send that blood to a lab at Texas A&M. My husband just heard back form our conventional vet and she said she “got an earful” from the folks in Texas. I am beside myself. They are calling it something like latent pancreatitus or something like that. Has anyone ever heard of this? He has no symptoms that we can see. Every so often he has a soft or mucousy stool but otherwise he is fine and that is only occasional. I’m wondering if anyone has heard anything about this and if so, what is recommended to feed him? He loves his OC Raw turkey and rabbit. We HATE the idea of giving him kibble. And we worry that all the work we’ve done to ease his itchiness will be for naught. Thanks for listening if you’re still with me. Any thoughts would be most appreciated!
Sharon

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Nosh –

I read the recent article about the study released on the UC Davis press release page and I have a lot of questions about this study and issues with the findings. For anyone who wants to read the original press release: news(dot)ucdavis(dot)edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10666. Also, I’m going to apologize ahead of time because this is going to get kind of “ranty” (not toward you, but toward the study and subsequent articles).

1) I would like to see these “200 recipes” they analyzed. Where were they coming from? I know some were formulated by veterinarians, but what about the rest? I’ve come across many recipes on websites, in forums, even published in books by unqualified individuals that are horribly unbalanced. In fact, I recently came across a commercially prepared cooked food being sold as “complete and balanced” that only contained meat and no calcium!

2) They reported that even some of the recipes formulated by veterinarians had a least one deficiency. What does this tell us about the nutrition-related education that vets receive? That it’s inadequate! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to feed a person and it shouldn’t take one to feed a dog either. It’s not that complicated.

3) This study is not taking into consideration the main philosophy of homemade diets: Balance over time. Is each meal that you eat 100% balanced with every vitamin, mineral and amino acid your body requires? Does each meal you eat have the ideal fat to protein to carbohydrate ratio? What about the ideal omega 3 to omega 6 ratio? I doubt it! People eat varied diets, for this reason we receive all the nutrients we need by eating a variety of healthy foods. People that eat a varied healthy don’t don’t require synthetic vitamin/mineral supplements and, in fact, it is advised not to take multivitamins unless absolutely necessary as synthetic vitamins are linked to a myriad of health issues. Why should a dog’s diet be any different? Most people that feed homemade diets don’t worry about making each meal 100% balanced – they feed a variety of fresh and species-appropriate foods and over the course of a few days or a week everything balances out (as with people) and the dog receives all the nutrients it needs. Yes, there does need to be some basic understanding of a dog’s nutrient requirements, however variety is the most important thing.

I can say this – I have fed my dogs a homemade diet for about two years now. I don’t use any synthetic vitamins and minerals. My dogs are healthier than ever. I had bloodwork done on two of my dogs after they had been on homemade for about 6 months to test for nutrient deficiencies and they had none. I have ran a full nutrient analysis on some of my recipes using the USDA’s nutrient database and found that my recipes exceed the AAFCO’s nutrient requirements for growth and reproduction (the more stringent of the two nutrient requirements). For those that don’t have the knowledge to create a balanced homemade diet from scratch, there are several pre-mixes on the market designed to make a homemade diet complete and balanced. My favorite is “See Spot Liver Longer Dinner Mix.”

This study and press release is nothing short of a scare tactic designed to steer pet owners toward commercial foods. They could very well have chosen numerous obviously unbalanced recipes from questionable sources for the study. The problem here is the vets, not homemade food. They need to become educated in how to instruct their clients to make balanced and healthy homemade meals for their animals. To have that level of education and not able to make a balanced meal for a dog is inexcusable and just plain sad. They recommend that only recipes formulated by veterinary nutritionists are used. Really? Do mothers need to spend 8 years in college and then do a nutritional residency before being able to feed their child? What a joke.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Jessica1]

Hi H.D.M,
Thank you so much for all the information, it has really helped me. It’s great to know that rotating grain & non grain is acceptable and won’t cause problems. Thank you also for the information on the teeth and kibble, what you are saying makes perfect sense. I just never thought much to question the vet.
I just took our “little” rescue, Takoda in for his 2nd DHLPP & Bord. and the vet thinks they were wrong about his age and may only be 8 – 9 weeks and is already 16lbs, he is not overweight but he is solid. This leads me to my next two questions. (which I see Londoncalling is asking too) When you use the can food as a topper I don’t want to overfeed him or underfeed, how do I determine the amount to use as the topper and the amount of dry? The package on the Organix for his age & weight reads 2 ¾ – 4 cups (which I think is a big difference) I’m not currently at this point yet as I am still transitioning him over from the Pedigree, he should be on full Organix in the next day or so. (yesterday his stool was soft, today I was at ¾ mix and he got the runs).
If you’re adding a can topper is there a good guideline to use on how much kibble and how much topper. I just don’t want to over or under do it.
Even with the guidelines on the bag, I am not quite sure what would be the correct amount for him, and his size.
He has never gulped his food and sometimes doesn’t seem very interested in it until “he” is ready to eat. When I first gave him the Organix he seemed to love it, and tried to pick out just those pieces, now I’m not sure. Now he seems to only eat it because he is hungry not because he is enjoying it. (But, he never gulped the pedigree either).
The 2nd part of my question; should I only use a grain inclusive topper when using grain inclusive foods? Rotating from grain to non grain I know you said would be okay but I wasn’t sure if actually mixing grain with non grain topper would cause a problem. My main reason for asking, Organix doesn’t have a puppy formula and I’ve heard good things about the Wellness puppy can food, but it’s a non grain, and I am not sure what would be a good “grain” large breed puppy can food.
Thanks again!

[mah4angel]

Yes! I do believe that we are always reunited with those we love; animal and human. Whether it be in Heaven or in another lifetime, whatever you happen to believe in ^_^

There’s a whole forum topic dedicated to raw dog food menus here: /forums/topic/menus/. I’m totally no raw dog food genie haha and you can see all of my ramblings and questions on there and my current future recipe is the last comment on the thread hehe. I don’t have everything I need to actually feed him his raw diet yet so that’s why I’m not feeding him 100% raw as of yet but I will be soon!

Here is a thread for help with starting a dog on raw dog food: /forums/topic/help-with-starting-my-dog-on-a-raw-diet/ BUT it will take a few months to transition her all the way up the ladder to raw food, so I wouldn’t be super worried about it quite yet 😀 I think the most important thing is to just get her off of Science Diet food. And if you have any of the Science Diet left, PLEASE donate it to a local shelter! I know that Science Diet is not at all optimal for our wonderful furry friends but shelters need all that they can get 🙂

I also wanted to add something that I forgot to my original comment, which is to start feeding raw meaty bones and organ meat (livers, hearts, etc.) when she is fully transitioned to DNA (or another freeze or air-dried raw). RMB’s as we call them are GREAT for dental health! And it’ll be a great introduction to real, raw meat. Pork necks, chicken necks, ox tails, chicken backs, chicken feet, pork feet, etc. are all RMB’s (as opposed to recreational bones like thigh bones, etc.) that are recommended. And the organ meats will supply extra nutrients. Just make sure to freeze them for two weeks just to be on the safe side 🙂

RMB’s and organs (and any table scraps, etc.) should make up no more than 20% of her daily diet (because it will throw off the balance supplied in the pre-made food), so you’ll want to give her maybe one pork neck one day and maybe one chicken heart the next day, and so on and so forth. BUT like I said, this is all a long way off so I wouldn’t focus too much on this portion of the feeding.

In reality, the longest transition time will more than likely be right now, switching from Science Diet to whatever 4-star GRAIN-FREE food (totally forgot to mention that the four-star food should be grain-free) you choose, whether it be Nature’s Domain or something else. This is because her tummy isn’t used to the lack of grains. It’s almost like a detox process. So, that transition will most likely take the longest to complete; probably a month or so.

This is why adding fiber (with things like pureed pumpkin, hemp, chia, and flax seed, etc.) and probiotics/digestive enzymes (with things like yogurt, etc.) is important because it helps to nourish the balance of good and bad bacteria in the gut as well as balancing out any other digestive problems.

I’m trying to pack in a lot of information into one comment so that you won’t have to do too too much fishing for information. It’s stressful, I know! The most important thing is to just pull the trigger and do it. I second-guessed myself and I waited until I felt I had found the perfect food, but no food is 100% perfect. There is no supplementing a wolf’s primitive diet with just one food, try as we might hehe ^_^