[Susan]

My boy was eating the neighbours cat poo, I was going to put a muzzle on him when he went outside as it was making him ill… I saw a Dog Behavourist & she told me to make sure everytime I was outside I watched him & teach him the words “LEAVE IT”… its easy to teach ‘leave it’ u get a 1 little treat or 1 of his kibbles & put it under ur foot when the dog smells it & goes near the treat u say ‘LEAVE IT’ when the dogs leaves the threat u wait then reward him with the treat thats under ur shoe, that way he cant quickly grab the treat under ur shoe, then when he seems to understand the word LEAVE IT u leave the treat next to ur foot or nearby on floor, same let dog see treat, if he goes to eat it say ‘NO, LEAVE IT’ then when he’s has left the treat wait then give him the treat, once they have learnt the word LEAVE IT when you see them about to eat something yuk u can say leave it. Now my boy leaves poo or any food in the street on our walks…But I did change his food he was always hungry, once he was put on another kibble & I increased to 3 cups the poo eating did stop, Im reading a really good book called ‘Raw & Natural Nutrition for dogs’ by Lew Olson PhD, she explained why some dogs eat poo, now I cant find the page about why & how to fix the problem but I remember her saying their poo isnt digested properly, unprocessed food & the dog can smell food not poop, & dog eats it, Ive read elsewhere to add some pineapple to the dogs food to stop poo eating but I dont know if it works..I’m busy at the moment but tonight I’ll speed read back thru the begining if her book & try to find what Lew Olson says, I remember thinking, she’s was right & that it made sense when I locked back on why my dog was doing it, I look thru her book later,

[Steven M]

I have not tried Divovite yet. I have 2 year old Bullmastiff that has been on Taste of the Wild/Bison pretty much since I rescued him (had him on Blue for about a month, the foster had him on a raw diet for a month and I have no idea what he was eating before)…He seems to be having food allergies, but can’t tie it down to one thing that he is allergic to. When he stays at the sitter’s for more than a day, he comes home licking and rashy. The first time it was small red bumps everywhere including his ears, eyes and jowls…The second time it was hot spots and the dry flaky bumps that others have talked about on this thread. Both times the vet prescribed antibiotics. The first time, he got a steroid shot and some eye and ear cream too…the second time I had to go to the vet twice and the second time he prescribed a second antibiotic and a steroid boosted antihistamine…and said that I could give my dog up to 15 Benadryl a day for the rest of his life. I agree with all of you that think that meds for life is ridiculous. I don’t think I want to go raw with his diet either. I am willing to try Dinovite, it isn’t that expensive for a 90 day supply (for my 120lb bully, $1 per day)…

I want to add this though- those concerned about diatamaceous earth need to do more research on it. I’ve used it several times all by itself to kill fleas. Non-food quality is used in pool and hot tub filters, food quality is used by farmers in their livestock foods to help fight intestinal parasites because it is actually crushed shells and corals and it cuts the parasites skin and causes them to dehydrate. Many sites will recommend it all by itself as a treatment to your pet’s coat to fight fleas and you can add it to food by itself for the same reasons farmers use it. I’ve never heard it being referred to as a “binder.” And to the post talking about the ingredients to the solvents and poisons including H2O, RIGHT ON man!!!! People are so worried about “chemicals” they can’t pronounce, but most people would not have any issues eating an egg…well you know eggs are chemicals and if you looked at the chemical make-up of an all natural egg, you wouldn’t be able to pronounce them either (Ovalbumin, Conalbumin, Ovamucoid, Ovomucin, Lysozyme, Avidin, Ovoglobulin, Ovoinhibitor) and that is just for the whites of the eggs….

[Austin L]

I’ve been a long time reader but thought I’d see if I could get some advice from the knowledgeable people on this board. Our 11 month old hound/boxer mix has recently (past 1-2 months) started eating poop. At first we didn’t even notice as he’d do it when running around on his own in the backyard. But then he had a few bouts of day long vomiting after we caught him doing it. When we keep him away from the poop it’s fine and he doesn’t have vomiting problems. We’ll have my fiance’s parents dog-sit him sometimes when we’re out of town and he’s gotten into poop there as well followed by vomiting. As soon as he vomits we limit him to chicken with yogurt and rice to help calm his stomach for the next few days.

He’s a VORACIOUS eater and as soon as he finishes eating he’s searching for more food. He’s 60 lbs and we feed him 4 cups a day (feeding twice daily) of high quality grain free food. We’ve rotated between Wellness Core Wild Game, Orijen Adult, Wellness Core Original, and Merrick Duck and Sweet Potato. We feed him in a bowl designed to help slow him down as well. We also just finished a regimen of probiotics that we purchased about 2-3 months ago to help with loose stools, which worked wonders.

What I’m wondering is if we need to possibly switch him to a food with grain in it. He never ever seems full and will run out and eat poop right after he finished his meal if he’s allowed. Also, should we try a digestive enzyme as well? Any suggestions would be great we just want to find something that we can stick with to help him. Thanks!

EDIT: Also I forgot to mention he’s always had issues with fairly constant anal gland secretions. Nothing huge, just little bit every couple of days.

• This topic was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Austin L.

[Sarah Y]

Besides protein differences, are there are other differences in senior versus adult food?

I have two senior beagles…both are within normal weight range but it’s a struggle. They get some excercise with a 15-20 minute walk in the morning and a 30-45 minute walk in the evening…every day (unless it’s pouring down rain). My 10 year old, 22 lb beagle was just diagnosed with a luxating patella. I was shocked as all her vet checks have never shown this problem. The vet said it’s possible it was undetected due to muscle mass and as they get older they lose muscle mass.

They eat Wellness senior dog food because the 10 year old had some abnormal kidney values a couple of times and her urine specific gravity can be low at times due to how much water she drinks (she has always been that way). So I chose wellness for the low phosphorus level (.75). The vet thinks she may have some renal deficiences so her take is to be cautious and keep an eye on it.

I was considering a change to blue wilderness senior as it’s grain free and higher in protein. The red meat formula has .7 phosphorus and the regular senior has .9. Any thoughts on this? As fo rmy other beagle, she’s 37 lbs and her only health issue is an autoimmune disease that affects her nails. Oh and the 10 year old recently had full anal glands. Just though I would mention that.

If you would prefer I start another thread, just let me know. Thank you…

[Nancy C]

Interesting. I’m the one with the now 20 month old GSD with the afternoon loose stools who had been doing beautifully on TOW High Prairie (5 stars) until I transitioned to Origen and Acana. Simultaneous to that I was giving him some Bully Sticks from “BEST BULLY STICKS” (an internet site). I had studied Bully Sticks and the way these were made sounded the best. The small company in Virginia appears to be very conscientious about producing a quality and safe product. They are aware of potential problems re Bully Sticks and say they have implemented some techniques that ensure safety. I had ordered inch thick ones. Have been wondering if he got a particular bacteria from those sticks that contributed to this inflammatory bowel condition he is now in. Our weather was bad during Feb when this started and I gave him one every other day to help tide us all over until our bad weather cleared up. At first I had put them in my deep freeze bec I had read that that would kill any unknown bacteria. Then I stopped doing that. Nice weather is here and I do not plan to give him anymore of those. May freeze the remaining ones all summer in prep for winter. He DID enjoy chewing on them and I do not blame this company. I think they are very committed to producing a sound product. They have an interesting video on their web site.

[Shawna]

Okay, friend in California — let’s call her T.. T rotates (you know me and rotation) between the Preference and Steve’s and adds raw antelope, buffalo, beef etc. These are all no bone in commercial products she gets from a local puppy boutique in her area.

The premix she was using (that he dog was reacting to) is called NDF2. Just realized it has wheat brand and germ too. For some reason I was just remember the oats??? http://www.volharddognutrition.com/natural-diet-foundation-2/natural-diet-foundation-2.html She had heard about the diet on a Yahoo group and a premix was appealing to her so she could rotate the meat. But she wasn’t rotating the NDF at all.

She feeds raw green tripe once a week, fasts the dogs once a week and makes her own kefir using raw milk and kefir grains (it is legal to buy raw milk in California). She feeds a REALLY good diet. After reading a previous post about some of the other symptoms you are seeing in Hannah however, I highly doubt the elevated liver values are due to detoxing like was the case in T’s dog.

If it ends up being the liver you might want to look in to Dr. Dodds liver diet using white fish and potato. White fish creates less ammonia which in turn is less stressful for the liver as it is the liver that has to convert the ammonia to urea. There are also supplements that can be considered — such as Sam-e and milk thistle in therapeutic doses, Standard Process Hepatic Support and so on. I have a contact at SP that can help with product recommendations if wanting to go that route.

You might want to also consider a phone consult with a nutritionist or a holistic vet once you have an official diagnosis. Treating cushings will be somewhat different than treating liver cancer. Mary Straus, Dr. Becker, Dr. Dodds, Naturopathic Vets Dr. Jeannie Thomason or Kim Bloomer, Dr. Peter Dobias, Dr. Christina Chambreau, Dr. Martin Goldstein, Dr. Barbara Royal (Darwins) etc might be some to consider speaking with. Jacqueline at Answer’s might have suggestions for diet or vets to speak with too? I could contact her on your behalf. I’m guessing you’ve already determined the diet for cushings can be high protein, lower fat/purines and carb.

Dr. Becker has several video/articles on cushings if that is the diagnosis or if you want to get info early before a definitive diagnosis. She talks about typical and a-typical cushings as well as causes (she, and others, feel early spaying can cause a-typical as an example) and dietary prevention (which you were doing by feeding lower carb, moisture rich.

[Shawna]

Hi Dori,

One of the key differences between holistic practitioners (truly holistic that is) and allopathic practitioners is that the holistic ones see a change (even if still in normal ranges) as a possible “sign” that something might be going on. Rather than dismissing a mildly high liver enzyme they would treat it even if no sympotms are present. Dr. Becker refers to this as the “grey area”. If you think about it, it makes sense. The body doesn’t just become ill one day. The kidneys lose function before symptoms are seen. The liver is quite stressed before liver enzymes become abnormal. Cancer has already taken a foothold when cancer is usually diagnosed. I love how Certified Clinical Nutritionist Radhia Gleis describes it “you wait till the horse is out of the barn, you wait till there’s symptoms and on a scale from zero to one hundred, a hundred being absolute perfect health and zero being death, we don’t start to really experience sympotms until we’re at about 30. So 60% of the vital energy of the body is diminished and then all of the sudden the body is knocking on the door saying there’s something seriously wrong. At that point pathology has set in or disease is already set in and the horse is already out of the barn.” She says “Our job is to catch you when you are in a biochemical imbalance, and restore that balance before disease and symptoms starts to manifest.” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMiBuAWvDB0

Holistically speaking, symptoms are an expression of disease, or imbalance in the body, that has been present but not addressed.

That doesn’t change anything you are dealing with now but I kinda wanted to address how truly holistic practitioners look at and treat versus how allopathic practitioners handle things. Cyndi, if you are reading this, I’m still available to talk but the last few weekends got away from me. I WILL make myself available this weekend any time if you want (well any time after 10:00 am Central time that is). 🙂 You have my number, just call when it is convenient for you…. Dori the offer is open to you as well if you ever want to email or talk..

Starting another post to address you questions as this one is long already…

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.

[Mike Sagman]

The answer to most of your questions about how we manage the EC list can be found about midway down the Editor’s Choice FAQ page.

The answer to the question about why brands are sometimes removed from the list follows:

“Members should not be surprised to see some changes to our Editor’s Choice list as new information is discovered or brought to our attention.

“So, in the spirit of keeping the list short enough to be useful to our readers, we may sometimes be compelled to remove one good company to make room for others under consideration.

“Of course, there are many reasons a particular brand may or may not be included. And these reasons are typically subtle.

“In any case, to ensure our freedom to make these opinion-based adjustments freely and as needed, we must reserve the right to keep some of the rationale we use to make these decisions private.”

Hope this helps.

[Bobby dog]

Yeah, I was just thinking about that, is it possible he likes my dog more than he likes me? lol. What about leftovers for me? He does adore Bobby and he’s one of Bobby’s favorite people; he has four favorites. Every morning he trots over to his house and returns with a bisquit. I am lucky to live next door to a neighbor that loves Bobby probably almost as much as I do. My mother was ill and hospitalized for five days just before New Year’s eve this year. I called him from the hospital late in the evening to ask if he could feed and let Bobby out because I didn’t know when or if I would be getting home. He didn’t hesitate to say yes and even kept him at his house until I got home.

I like his litter box designs. Some of the openings looked narrow and long to me, but I understand his thought behind the opening shapes. I think I like the size of the opening on catinfo’s better (it’s worked well for my cats). But, his are good to keep in mind because you never know when a design might need to be tweeked for some reason. I also like leaving the top rim of the box intact (catinfos design). My thought would be for better support to keep the box square. Idk Also, I know on catinfo she mentions different theories on where you might want to put an opening (long or short side). I put the opening on the short side of the first box because of where I was putting it and it hasn’t caused any problems, such as litter getting scattered. On the second one I put the opening on the long side. My cats don’t seem to have a preference. I really feel they are just in awe of all the space they have inside. They actually look more interested in using the litter box. lol It’s funny to watch them the first few times because they almost seem overwhelmed by all the possibilities of where they can dig their hole.

I am going to look into the mats he suggested. I just put an old car mat outside of the one in the basement.

I also checked out the prices of the litter he suggested, the chicken layer feed, very interesting. I can still get clumping unscented TSC litter a few pennies cheaper/lbs, but I might give it a try this summer on the porch just to see how it works. I already planned on trying corn pellets from TSC as litter; it is 40 lbs/$7.00. I started using corn pellets for my horses this winter. I don’t use stalls but during inclimate weather they do urinate in a specific spot in their run-in. I previously used wood shavings which was a pain because I couldn’t put it in the regular manure pile. The people that pick up my manure for composting won’t take it if there is anything other than straw, hay, or manure in it.

Later on tonight I am going to look at the website again to see what other info I can find. It looks like a handy site. Thanks again. Oh, and the tote box from Wal-Mart is a Sterilite and was $20, maybe a little more. So, if your Wal-Mart doesn’t have it, maybe you can track one down from their website.

[banditsmom]

I’m just about certain, enough so I won’t feed it to my dogs. I’ve seen the same comments on 4 other forums Itchmo, Catster, Chihuahua People and Yorkie talk. I also found it on Truth about Pet Food Petsumer Report from Feb 2013. It said that the canned foods are made at Evangers and the dry foods in Georgia. I only fed Evangers once and my dogs didn’t like it and I didn’t like the rusty cans.
I’m a newbie and knew nothing about Evangers until I read this forum so I decided to look up what I could. I looked up Performance Pet and they own Canine Cattle a company that makes dog & cat food. Performance Pet makes Spring Naturals that was just reviewed and got 4 stars.
I found the comments in 4 different places plus in the Petsumer report. Although there is no factual material to back up the comments they sound reliable and they are repeated more than once.
I also read that the CC Facebook page admits this and names some other companies, Party Animal, Weruva, Addiction & another I forget that use Evangers. I wish I could remember where I saw this but didn’t mark it and I’ve searched and now of course I can’t find it. I am also probably the only one in Mass. who is not on Facebook so I couldn’t look it up.
I feed Weruva so I was not too happy and I called them. They said their Kobe line was manufactured there but that’s all. I also found that same exact info on Itchmo.
Other companies mentioned in my reading were Dave’s , Addiction, Wysong Au Jus, Party Animal, Wild Calling, Great Life and Holistic Select. The info on Holistic Select and Dave’s was from 2010 so things may have changed. I called Dave’s but they said they didn’t give that info out but they denied it. I also called Addiction because I feed that also and they said that their NZ line was manufactured in NZ but the others were manufactured at Evangers.they said they send someone to supervise the whole process. This is exactly what was said on one of the forums.
So, I believe the stuff about CC but I am going to call them and I will let you know what they say. Is it possible for one plant to manufacture all these foods and what is with the rusty cans? Some of the Dave’s cans in our pet store here have the same rust but I haven’t seen it on the Addiction or Weruva cans I’ve bought.

[theBCnut]

High protein does not cause liver problems or high liver levels, but after there is already a liver problem, the liver has a harder time dealing with as much protein. The high levels could be from something else, they could be a temporary increase due to some insult to her liver, like a toxic exposure, they could be because of some other disease process all together. You just can’t know yet. You may have to start adding carbs to her diet to reduce the protein levels, but you may need to do nothing at all, you just don’t know yet. If it turns out that she really is having liver issues, have your vet get you a recipe for a homemade diet for her. It will still be way better than anything you could buy.

She is much more likely to have come in contact with something on walks or whatever like that, than for the supplements that you gave her to have caused a problem. Unfortunately, this could be age, it could be longterm exposure to heartworm prevention, it could be from pesticides, even ones your neighbors used years ago, you may never know and liver problems can literally take a lifetime to pop up.

And yes, I do mean that most vets just feel, look, and listen to dogs at their yearly and never run blood work until there is already a known problem, so they never have normals to compare to.

Dori, at 14 1/2 years old, you would never want to treat her for heartworms and she would never have enough of them to have a serious case, so the first thing I would do would be to never give her another dose. BTW, when was her last dose in relation to when she had the blood work done? That alone could explain the elevated levels.

[Dori]

Ok Patty. So your basically telling me to calm down and wait and I could be freaking out thinking there’s nothing that will be able to help but that in actuality if it is the liver then there will be some things I can do to reverse the situation? Damn, sorry Patty, I now realize I am babbling. I’ve been checking the protein levels of all the raws that I feed and, of course, they are much higher than kibble but I don’t want to put her on kibble. I also took a look at protein levels for the Nzymes and I’ve had her on two other supplements that I had forgotten about from Ark Naturals Grey Muzzle line. One for cognitive and one for heart health. I just thought since she was older she might need some heart health and, also, due to her age I couldn’t really tell whether she sometimes seemed a little more out of things because of losing some hearing to old age or cognitive skills were being affected due to age. Everything has added protein. Could all that contribute to high liver levels. I should have left well enough alone and just fed her the raw with her glucosamine and not added other stuff. I have been giving them all milk thistle but since it comes in capsules I was dividing one capsule among the three dogs. Should I have been giving each one capsule? It just looked like so much. I should have posted that question. I know we all talked about milk thistle when losul’s Turbo was diagnosed with HW but I don’t think it was ever discussed as to how much or I just missed that part. I’m kicking myself right now thinking of all the things I may have done wrong. Like I said, other than hypothyroid Hannah has never ever had any health issues.

What do you mean it’s rare for vets to do yearly bloodwork? If they don’t then what’s the point of the yearly physical? Why would I take them then? I could look and feel them as well, actually, better than she can? Hmmmm? I should have insisted on a 6 month bloodwork instead of yearly. I read something about that somewhere that when dogs get older they should go every six months instead of yearly but she didn’t think it was necessary in the least because Hannah’s always been so healthy. And here I go rambling and babbling.

[theBCnut]

Somewhere there is a thread about bloat, but I don’t know where it’s hiding, but the take away is that they really don’t know what causes bloat. Every time they think they have a cause, they try to cause bloat and find that whatever they were testing doesn’t cause bloat. The current thinking is that there is no one reason that animals bloat, but that there may be several factors that have to be present at the same time to cause bloat. I can tell you that raw fed dogs are not known for bloating and they recieve a high fat diet compared to kibble fed dogs, so it can’t just be fat. Same with dogs fed canned foods.

They say that for bloat prone dogs that you should not feed a food with citric acid in it because this can cause gas build up in the stomach. And they also say to wet the food well before feeding it to allow it to absorb all the water that it can. And don’t allow your dog to drink water after eating, especially if fed a dry meal. I would always add digestive enzymes to any kibble being fed to a bloat prone dog, but I would strive to feed a more natural diet to these dogs.

[InkedMarie]

Tina, for your Golden & Corgi, getting weight off them is of the utmost importance, for their joints. I used Wellness Core Reduced fat with great success. While I have not used it, others have had luck with Annamaet Lean (this may need to be ordered as it’s not as widely available). Both can benefit from salmon oil added to their diet. You can use human form or buy those available online or at pet stores for dogs (I use human). Are they getting a supplement for their joints?

For the cocker & mixed breed, I’ve read that people use Nutri Source with good luck for dogs with sensitive stomachs.

I know nothing about colitis but hopefully someone else can answer. Its possible the foods I listed won’t work. If I was you, with dogs with issues, I’d consult a holistic vet who would be able to advise you on dogs with their issues and probably offer a non vet food. You could go to DogAware.com and contact Mary Strauss from there or Lew Olsen at b-Naturals.com.

Both of them could give you some advice. Good luck!

[Akari_32]

I already do get the food and she pays. And the likely good of her having time to pick food up between estimates and permits is very slim. There’s no help needed in that department. You all are the ones that feel there is. That’s not my problem. My problem was wanting to know how Pet Botanics compared to Pure Balance. What’s available is what’s available. If he can only eat one food, then so be it. Thousands of dogs do it. Moms going to do what it is she’s going to do, and she’s not going to change it till she has to (ie, I move out). Case closed.

[Dori]

Definitely rotate within the same brand but you need to find at least two other brands and rotate brands as well as proteins with all brands. A lot of people seem to have some problems with their dogs on BB. Remember, not every food is for every dog. Once you’ve done the complete transition to Merrick and his stools are fully formed then you can experiment with different proteins within the same brand, then begin to experiment with a different brand that has ingredients that your dog does well on. Slowly transition. Once that’s done and you’ve fed all the proteins on that brand, you’ll be in search of a third brand. Switching up within the brand is good so that you dog isn’t always eating the same protein and can possibly develop an intolerance to that protein. It’s also important to switch brands because even though the ingredients may be similar to the Merrick or whatever else you find, the proportions of proteins, fats, carbs, minerals, vitamins, essentially everything will be a little or a lot different from brand to brand so this way you can insure that your dog is getting a good balance. Also rotating is really very good in case there is a sudden recall in a brand you can immediately switch your dog off that food onto one that he’s already accustomed to. The more you rotate your dogs meals the easier you can move from food to food. Much much healthier for your dog. Healthy dogs will tolerate illnesses and minor recalls much better than an unhealthy dog. Hope I’ve answered your question and not babbled too much. Gotta go. Today is dog grooming at my house. I’ve done two of the girls, I’ve just got one to go. I’ll check in later.

[Nancy C]

YES I want to know too. Have a 20 month old GSD. My vet does not like deer antlers and anything else hard which includes BONES because they can easily crack a tooth and then you REALLY have a problem. I was surprised but she said if I saw some of the problems she sees due to cracked teeth I would agree with her. Rawhide is not digested so I do not give them to my dogs. Greenies are supposedly VERY BAD- plus our GSD chewed the XL ones in one minute. I found the website BESTBULLYSTICKS.com and they seem to have good ones. Go read that site. They explain WHY theirs are better. I ordered some and he LOVES THEM and a 12 inch takes him about 30 min. I take it from him after 15 min. I put them in the freezer a few days, thinking it will help with ANY bacteria left on the sticks. THe company says there is no bacteria due to their processing, but you never know. When this dog started getting runny stools I quit giving them to him because it COULD be bacteria in the stick that he cannot deal with. Now I’m dealing with runny stools. I also bought him a VARSITY BALL which is at Amazon and on the net. They are expensive but honestly this is more entertaining than a chew toy could ever be. Watch the videos of dogs playing with that toy. Plus, it wears him out. He cannot get enough of it. You might consider spending your chew toy money on this great entertainment. Good luck.

[T]

Have you tried feeding him any of the canned foods (Nature’s Variety Instinct, Merrick, etc.), fresh commercial foods (FreshPet, Just Food For Dogs, etc.), or considered cooking for him (Just Food for Dogs is a good option if you need a recipe)? Digestive enzymes may help as well as some alternative therapies such as herbs, acupuncture, food therapy, etc.

Westies are sort of known for exactly these sort of issues you’re describing. As they get older, it can definitely be even more of a challenge to figure out.

I’m a holistic veterinarian in Phoenix. If you were in my town, I would evaluate all of his symptoms, habits and preferences to try to identify imbalances. Then I’d use acupuncture, Chinese herbs and food therapy to help balance him. If you’re interested in this sort of veterinary care, you could check if there is a vet near you who knows about TCVM here: http://tcvm.com/Resources/FindaTCVMPractitioner.aspx

If you would like to read my articles about pet food, here is a link: http://naturalalternativesvet.com/category/blog/food-therapy-for-pets/

Good luck!
Tabitha

[Mary W]

Hi!
Thank you all. I know he is hungry and I’m a pharmacist with some medical knowledge and I know this u/d is high in grain, low in protein-therefore, he will eat his body’s own protein when he is hungry-he is NOT getting enough, I agree. I am just afraid to go back to the Wellness which he did so well on before the stone-main ingredient is chicken (protein). ALL I’ve read on the web is contradictory regarding oxalate stones (which require surgery).Some say acidic is bad, some say alkaline is bad-most say protein is bad etc. VERY CONFUSING. I will ask my vet about grain free but they clearly are not experts on nutrition as one of you wisely pointed out. I DID find a number of ‘veterinary’ site that provides nutritional counseling for dogs to your own vet.CAN ANYONE recommend one or have any knowledge of these places? You and your vet submit details to the nutritionists and they reccommend…if ANYONE has any knowledge on these places, please let me know and we will try that next-my vet is great but has no clue as to diets… Thank you ALL so much for taking the time…my dog should be well nourished and a healthy weight-just have to find the safest way to do that-I will increase food in the meantime.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kim B –

Great points! Freeze-dried and human-grade foods are wonderful – you’ll find some on the Editor’s Choice list. However some of the goals in constructing this list was to compile a collection of foods which would meet our reader’s needs in terms of availability and convenience among other things – you can read more about the selection guidelines here: /choosing-dog-food/brand-guidelines/. The majority of dog owners feed kibble as either the main component of their dogs’ diet – it’s often readily available, it’s convenient and it’s more cost effective than most “alternative” foods – so we felt inclined to include various brands of kibble as the bulk of the report. After thorough investigation we feel that all of these companies we have included which produce kibble provide a superior product as opposed to other companies producing kibble.

Concerning white potato, due to the nature of kibble manufacturing all kibbles require a starch component to act as a binder. There are pro’s and con’s to any binder (be it a grain, legume, potato, etc.). White potato provides a viable option for many dogs that are unable to consume grains due to allergies or intolerances. Concerns about particular ingredients are a great reason for all pet owners to investigate diet rotation – /frequently-asked-questions/diet-rotation-for-dogs/.

[theBCnut]

No, they aren’t East or West brands, you just either have to read more here or find exactly the right store or order online dog food. Most of these brands aren’t available anywhere within 100 miles of me, but I am aware that they exist and where I can get them online.

Great Life hasn’t had a recall because when they had an incident that should have resulted in a recall, they very quietly did a product withdrawal instead, so if you weren’t paying attention to your brand at exactly the right time, you wouldn’t even know that there might potentially be a problem with your food. I wouldn’t buy from a company that does that, because I know they wouldn’t inform me or anyone else of real issues. No trust.

[Shasta220]

I’m really sorry about this. It’s especially tough with the little guys, because they can’t afford to lose weight – and I’m guessing he has the proper slim build already, no extra pudge to him?

What do you feed him? Back before I knew about dog nutrition, my parents only wanted the cheapest, so my poor baby got stuck with grocery store foods. I kept telling mom to /at least/ get Dog Chow (believe it or not, it was good compared to these foods), because he would starve himself for 3-4 days at a time. When he did eat, he’d only eat 1/2 scoop instead of 1-2 scoops. After enough begging, I finally did some research and found a 3 star food we could move to without breaking the bank. He didn’t have a problem at all ever since then. Now he’s on a 4star food, and I think he’s our best eater. Slowest one, yes, but he loves his food!

I’d agree, usually loss of appetite can signal some serious health problems, even oral problems. He might not be eating because it hurts something in his mouth or his tummy.

Since he seems to love drinking, I wonder if you could sneak some supplemental additives in there to get at least some nutrition into him?

[Shasta220]

I think the reason is because they can also go to they can easily get to a store for something that /is/ made by Hartz. Spreading the word via internet doesn’t seem to help, as (sorry for being rude) people are idiots. They can’t decipher truth from lies – they see a story that’s obviously fake, and believe it. They see one that is just as obviously real, and they disbelieve it.

Sorry for random vent: but they once laughed and disbelieved a picture that I posted of Shasta and me when he was a puppy. It was because he did something called changing colors and growing up – pretty common with a /lot/ of dogs/breeds. I even added a pic of him and me at 6mo (in the transition period) and they still laughed and cussed me out for having a different dog. Smh.

Ah, here’s that pic: believe it or not, he’s got little-to-no GSD in him. That coloration comes from his hound, he was the only black/tan pup in the litter (others were tricolor, gray, or black)

[Mom2Cavs]

When I went back and read my post I got a belly laugh when I read “I’m currently eating….” LOL!!! I meant, of course, I’m currently FEEDING. I’m sorry I didn’t put what I’m feeding. I usually do. I do rotate kibble every now and then. I use Fromm Salmon a la Veg, Annamaet, Dr. Tim’s (though I probably won’t use it as much, Laverne didn’t do as well with it), Victor (what I’m feeding now), and I just bought a bag of Precise Sensicare at a phenomenal price so that will go in there somewhere. I also top with canned food and mostly use Wellness now. I use their 95% and stews. I will put other brands in there occasionally.

[Brandy R]

Thanks theBCnut,
I tried it and they all did wonderful my 10 month old 30# Beagle wasn’t sure what to do at first and he is usually my gulper! It took him a minute but he figured it out and chomped it down chewing the entire time. I am extremely excited to be getting my dogs on the raw diet. I can already tell just the chewing is going to help their teeth tremendously:) i’ll be back here watching and learning more vital info and maybe more questions. Hopefully one day be able to answer a question or two…lol

[Shawna]

🙂 Glad your vet discussed quality over percent!! If interested the reason quality is so important is — proteins digest down to amino acids. The amino acids are absorbed by the body. The better the quality of the protein, the more amino acids are used by the body for new cell growth etc. Poorer quality proteins are not used on a cellular level as well. If not used by the body they become waste material (or BUN) for the kidneys to have to filter. So the highest quality proteins are going to supply more of what the body needs on a cellular level while leaving less for kidneys to have to deal with. The higher the quality of protein, the more can be fed.

Heat and processing damages some amino acids (like lysine) and that is why kibbles have lower quality proteins even if using the very same protein source as used in a raw food. Since THK low heat dehydrates their proteins it is likely that very few, if any, amino acids are lost to heat. Egg is the gold standard of quality (or bioavailability). I rehydrate my HK (I use Preference with raw meats) with and egg and water. Adding the egg shell in as well will keep the calcium to phos in balance. There’s a lot of other little tips and tricks.. If you are interested in more info after reading Mary’s site, I can steer you in the direction of a few others.

Standard Process products “technically” are only supposed to be sold through health care providers. Those purchased online are not guaranteed by the company. Someone could sell really old product which in time will lose it’s therapeutic value as the products are made from foods and herbs. My holistic vet carries SP products as does several M.D.’s in my area (including mine) and many chiropractors also carry the product. IF you are interested in using but can not find a reliable source just let me know. I can get you in contact with my source at the company.

I’m familiar with Herbsmith (they make great products) but have not seen their probiotics.

[Shasta220]

Dori, I entirely respect your opinion. I thank you very much for standing up for it as well. There are cases where I don’t think a harness would work – like a large dog who’s been spoiled for a bit too long. That dog already knows he’s stronger than me, and he’s gonna drag me around if I put a harness on him. Yes, I was in that situation. I was asked to work with a 100lb Rottie/GSD who was a freight train. I attempted the harness with him, got down to the end of the road (opposite end I was aiming for), reached up to hold his collar, and bring him back to the house to reassess. I ended up using just a flat collar on him since I had nothing else. Within a day, he was doing a great loose-lead heel on my cue.

I definitely avoid the pinch/chokers whenever I can (I saw a gruesome pinch collar once….it was basically a leather slip collar. It only had 5 little double-spikes, but they were literally like sharpened nails! They weren’t that classic round blunt at all. I was disgusted to see it!). If I went collar-less for a big coo-coo dog, then I’d probably go with a head collar (yes, I’d let the dog get used to it….I hate seeing people who just throw one on the dog and immediately start pulling/scolding) or I might try one of those front-clip harnesses.

The only reason why I don’t use a harness on my well-trained boy is because I’ve already engrained in his mind that when the harness goes on, he’s allowed (and encouraged) to pull. Quite useful when I’m going up a hill though!

It’s also wonderful that you have the determination to teach a perfect heel (or at least somewhat at your side/loose leash) to your dogs with a harness 😉 we need more trainers like that out in this world.

I’ve also seen some AWESOME methods to teach a show-stopping heel. The best part? The trainer didn’t even start with a leash, OR the dog at his side. He started by teaching it to keep it’s front paws on a target and pivot it’s hips around. Sounds pretty unrelated to heel, right? I’ll have to show you the video if I ever find it….it’s so cool!

[Shasta220]

I would just like to give all of you awesome members a huge shout-out.

I am NOT a person who likes arguments, drama, debating, and disagreeance. I believe that everybody is entitled to their own opinion. As long as you can back it up by results, experience, and/or research, then I will not bash you and force my opinion down your throat, simply because I don’t like what you think.

Everyone on here is so kind and respectful. Even if y’all don’t agree with something, you very seldom directly say “you’re wrong. I’m right. Blah blah blah!” And even when you guys are /truly/ right on something (e.g. If the topic is “I love Hills Science”), you still aren’t mean or hurtful, simply informative with articles, recalls, past experiences, etc.

I’ve not been on many forums due to idiots, drama, and everyone wanting to argue with EVERYTHING I say (literally, if I would say “my favorite color is teal” I’d prob get a mob of people scolding me for it). The few forums I have been on, I left in a real hurry for those reasons. This is the only forum that I’m happy to jump on, read responses, and write my own replies, knowing that I’m not going to get chewed out for saying my thoughts.

Even on touchy subjects revolving around training, you guys say what you think/have experienced, but are never trying to lift yourselves up by tearing someone else down.

Again, congrats. You all rock….youz guys are like my dog-crazy family! =D also, I really hope I’m living up to what I just said…if I ever come across as being “mean”, please let me know and I will try to either apologize, or reword what I said. Misunderstandings are one of the biggest reasons for internet drama, y’know. Hah!

[Shasta220]

Aimee, appreciate your reply (thanks for not putting down Cesar…). Sounds like a very interesting book for sure, I’ll look into that. I guess I forgot to describe his classes better:

First class was more like doggie boot camp. The trainer is very very strict and corrective, she makes the dogs /really/ work for an award. I will not put her down, I have a huge amount of respect for what she does. I even did my other dog in her class (he was already a pro, but needed to brush up around a distractive situation like that) and he passed with flying colors and a wagging tail. There were about 20 other students though, so it just doesn’t work for a reactive dog like Loki.

Current class: only a couple weeks into it (it’s a 5wk course), but it’s much better for Loki. It’s positive reinforcement (personally I don’t think it’s working for the other people, as they are trying to always hold the treat in sight of the dog as a bribe rather than a reward) There are only 5-7 other dogs, and there is an extra room for Loki to go in. The wall is low enough for me to see and him to hear/smell, but he can get out of sight. Gradually, we leave the door open and let him come out bit by bit. If he has a freak-attack, we simply go back I the little room, take a deep positive breath, and go back out when calm. Since he already knows his obedience quite well from doggie boot-camp (first class), we work mainly on the cue for “watch me”. I was so dang proud of him when he maintained eye contact even when a dog barked at him (just one time. But hey! When I adopted him, he would have been freaking if a dog was laying down calmly across the room!)

[aimee]

Anxitane is the brand name of the supplement the trainer is referring to. L Theanine is the active ingredient. It is in blends of other supplements as well at lower levels than in the Anxitane. Anxitane is my preferred product and I have seen it help facilitate behavior modification.

Desensitization and counterconditioning of dogs with profound anxiety is a process whereby attention to detail and keeping the dog below threshold is important. I know as I own such a dog. I don’t like to ever see reactive dogs on neck collars. Initially I used a head collar and/or front attachment harness. The most frequent mistake made is putting the dog in situations that he/she is not ready for. This takes time… a lot of time and realistic goals.

General obedience classes may be inappropriate for your dog as many dogs are over threshold, Feisty Fido classes where the ratio of trainer to student is often one to one and they use screening between dogs to keep them under threshold until they are ready for contact can be helpful

You might want to buy Patricia McConnells book Feitsy Fido which is an excellent resource. If you are not familiar with BAT it is a useful technique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WrseJPY09k

Working with a board certified vet behaviorist, a CAAB or a vet interested in behavior would be an excellent idea check here http://avsabonline.org/resources/find-consult

or hook up with a Karen Pryor trainer which you can find here: https://www.karenpryoracademy.com/find-a-trainer?source=kpctnavbar

[Susan]

My boys gulping started last December, finally Im working out what the problem is, its stomach acid reflux coming into his throat.. he manly was having it early hours of the morning 1am-6am, Ive found kibbles high in fat made him worst, At 8.30pm I give him a dry biscuit a human biscuit then Ive been giving him Zantac (Ranitidine) similar to Pepcid (Famotidine)…at 9pm, I wake him up & give him 1 third of a Zantac, this has helped so much.. I read ur post Bunny how ur giving Sulcrate (Carafate) this must be giving on an empty stomach 1 hour before foods as it coats the stomach & if there’s food in their stomach it will just coat the food, ur better off giving Pepcid or Zantac as this helps settle their acid after they have eaten, the meals before bed make sure they are very low in fats as fats cause stomach acid, I also try to have my dog sleeping with his head higher then his bottom, so he’s sleeping like a human with a small pillow under the head, this way the acid can’t wash into their mouths causing the burning in their throats, everything that u’d do for a human with GERDs, I do for my Patch… Its funny I suffer from GERDs & now Ive rescued a dog with the Gerds….

[Mac T]

I am a veterinarian and feed Blue Ridge Beef products to my 3 Boxers and have recommended it to many other folks. I have used it for 3 years and find it to be of excellent and consistent quality. I have never observed charcoal in the product. Before I started using the food I had emailed the company and found their responses professional and timely. The dogs I feed it to are healthy and do extremely well fed BRB products exclusively. I am a breeder and also do a lot of obedience work with my dogs and credit their excellent health and performance to this food. I rarely find in necessary to supplement, as I feel most supplements are sold and used based on marketing and perception rather than medical/scientific fact. I have no affiliation to the company whatsoever, wish I did so I could get a discount though 🙂 Are there other raw foods that you can use, certainly-there are many, are BRB products worth feeding your dog, IME yes. I like BRB products due to quality, consistency, affordability, variety, and convenience. I prefer feeding a ground product instead of so-called prey model-just a personal choice. I have a lot of first hand experience feeding their products and I like them. One thing about internet info is that some times folks bad mouth something they have never used and that can be unfair. I have no vested interest in convincing anyone to use BRB, but I thought some actual first hand experiences about the products might help those considering them. I have no inside info about the company so I can not address some of the issues raised in this thread about their ownership or business connections, I just have experience actually using the products. I will be glad to attempt to answer any questions or inquiries about my dogs.

[Case]

Is there unfavorable information about this brand? I’ve read mixed reviews but have used Canidae without any issues.

[jakes mom]

just started grain free canned trying to help one of my cats with chronic ear infections. All 5 of my cats absolutely loved Wellness turkey formula, but none liked the chicken flavor.
As far as dental health, I read somewhere that giving them a bit of meat to gnaw on helps scrape off some plaque/tarter. Anybody have experience or opinion on that? I’m a little nervous about giving them raw meat altho I know there’s a lot of raw food fans out there.

[michelle e]

Hi I am not sure where to post this. We have an adopted Chiweenie that is 7 mo old now and 5.5 lbs up from 4.5 when we got him in Dec 2013. He is very finicky and getting him to eat is becoming a game. Anyway, he will eat Stella & chewys chicken if the cat is sitting waiting to gobble it up, but I dont know if he needs a kibble too. He will eat a couple pieces of Blue puppy kibble and will gobble up tbe Blue cat crunchies if he can sneak to get them. Is there a puppy kibble that Iis as tasty as the cat crunchies? I would like to find a kibble he likes as much as that. Already tried The honest kitchen, Wellness, Artemis, and the petsmart brand I forget the name now. Likes cooked chicken but I dont give him that often and peanut butter is his fav treat flavor…. oh forgot to say he likes the Stella and chewys salmon and cod treats too. Wish there was a daily food thst was so tasty. Thank you for suggestions.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

First, I hope more people will chime in here with helpful advice. Now, to get to your questions as best I can.

It looks like your family is adding a lot of new members to the family. How great for all of them to be able to grow up and play together – and be fed raw. Looks like you’ll have your own little support group!

1. From all my reading on forums and Facebook, finding green tripe can be tricky. Some places ban the sale of it directly to consumers while others seem to be able to get it locally. I’m currently getting mine from MyPetCarnivore.com. I’m hoping that when I find someone who will sell direct, that they’ll also be able to provide the tripe. You’ll just have to ask and if they can’t, perhaps they’ll know where to get it.

2. Sure, you can grind necks. They aren’t terribly meaty, but they’ll grind easily enough. You should be able to start giving them whole when your pup gets a bit older. Chicken necks are tiny and I give them whole to my seven month old cat. I’ve been giving whole duck and turkey necks to Mystery since I started raw, he was 10 months at the time – he’s getting a turkey neck as part of his dinner tonight.

Different nutritionists/homeopathic vets will have various opinions on what, when, how and why to feed certain ingredients. I tend to lean toward Kymythy’s advice at the moment. She raises Newfies and feeds them raw as early as four weeks. The proof is in the health of her pups and adults.

3. I’m still not feeding veggies or “super” greens. Not a “purist” or anything but I wanted to first be sure I was feeding correctly the balance of meat/bone/organs and then get a blood panel or hair sample analysis – I’ll be scheduling that next week. Mystery’s only issues are a skin flaking problem – solved with coconut oil, and motion sickness – I’m still working on that and hoping he’ll grow out of it. So, until I get an analysis that says he needs more of this or that, I’m holding off on supplementing. I do give Mystery garlic for natural pest control and I also supplement with curcumen and vitamin C because Goldens have a high cancer mortality rate. I know a lot of people use “super” this and that as well as create their own veggie mashes. I would lean toward making my own purees since I believe nutrition from the source is best.

4. Most fruits have a lot of sugar in them. I would avoid most or feed them judiciously. I’ll share a banana with Mystery from time to time as well as give him apple slices, but not as a regular part of his diet. Here’s a basic chart that lists not only veggies and fruits that are toxic to pets but also plants as well as symptoms to watch for: http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/toxic.htm. And of course, you’ll find other sites that list fewer or additional foods.

5. Ah, SWEET potatoes. I haven’t read anything that shows a good reason to add most starches. That includes potatoes, peas, some beans. Many of these veggies convert starches to sugar when cooked. I used to give a tablespoon of pumpkin when our Sunset would have loose stools, but Mystery has had no problems there – and especially not since going raw.

6. I must defer to Kymythy on adding anything at all to an eight week old puppy’s diet. If you’re balancing 80/10/10 your calcium/phosphorus ratio is in perfect sync. Adding anything may not only increase the amount of calcium but may throw off that balance. Mess with that ratio and excess calcium can be deposited on the outside of the bones causing a number of issues. We had no idea that there was an issue with LBPs and calcium when we got Sunset 11 years ago. Before she was two, she required double-hip surgery. We got her from a backyard breeder (another ignorant move on our part), didn’t know much about hip scores and fed her what surely is on the one- or two-star lists here at DFA. I’ve been ultra focused on calcium since before I got Mystery.

An excerpt from Kymythy’s book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
By the time the young are ready to go to their new homes, they should be eating whole necks and regular meals with all the extras, and you may discontinue the enzymes and probiotics (although they may help counteract the digestive stress a youngster endures when going to a new home). Youngsters may be fed three times per day from eight weeks until four to six months old, then twice daily from four to six months old until one year of age, and once daily after one year of age. Giant breeds of dogs may need to be fed twice daily occasionally during growth spurts from one to three years of age. Either feed two complete meals or one complete and one of meaty bones (bones with ample meat) only. Observe your pet and adjust amounts accordingly. Do not feed so much that the stomach becomes overly extended. Do not let your pet become obese. A very thin layer of fat over the ribs is healthy, but too much weight puts extra stress on growing bones, joints, and hearts. A healthy wild animal is a lean animal. If your pet needs to lose weight, reduce its food intake. If it needs to gain weight, increase its food. Keep in mind that growing youngsters will eat more per pound of body weight than adult animals.

Schultze, Kymythy (1999-10-01). Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats (p. 67). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Note the information on probiotics and enzymes is directed toward breeders who feed and wean pups to raw. If your puppy has been weaned to kibble, you might want to add some kefir to his diet for a time.

7. See #6, but I will take a look at the three products you mentioned for future use. I am not trying to discourage the use of any supplementation, just use caution and be sure you’re feeding only what is essential and beneficial.

8. I’m assuming you’re referring to the products in question 6 and maybe 7, not 8. LOL! I couldn’t find a guaranteed analysis of the Urban Wolf Balancer so I would be very wary of adding it. They do provide a recipe that uses their products with an analysis and it looks good. If you feel a strong need to supplement… Questions regarding their recipe ingredients might include, where do they get their fish oil from; is it guaranteed not to contain any toxins; if you use “canned” fish, do the cans contain BPA; if natural ingredients are better, why so many dried/powdered ingredients in their mixes? This is the hard part for me – giving my money to companies that sell premixes and toppers when I can just hit the market for fresh ingredients.

9. When you’re deciding on recipes, remember that your eight week old puppy is capable of handling chunks of raw meats, organs and bones. Even if he’s been weaned onto kibble before you get him, there should be no need to transition him as he hasn’t developed an addiction to the sugars and starches yet. I’d been feeding my kitten a kibble diet for about five months when I decided to transition the cats. Since he’d been stealing raw food from the dog, I went straight to raw with him and he jumped all over it, including chicken necks and other appropriately sized bones. I feed grinds only when the weather’s so bad that I can’t even put Mystery on the screened deck, usually when it’s too cold. The cats get fed in the tiled bathroom since they don’t feel the need to drag food all over the place – yet!

Any time you freeze or cook food, you’re going to lose a bit of nutritional value. Most of us have large freezers because we buy in bulk so frozen it is. Be sure you thaw foods and try to bring them to room temp before feeding. As Alpha in my house, I pull food from the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter until I’ve finished my coffee – then they get to eat. I know some people feed frozen foods but I wouldn’t do that to a puppy. Ever get brain freeze from drinking a shake too fast? Imagine a puppy’s digestive system trying to warm up frozen meat. There may be other opinions out there on this, but I would definitely feed three times a day for the first six months and then move to twice a day until he’s at least a year old. You should be feeding him 10% of his current weight until that exceeds 2-3% of his target weight.

I love Mercola. There is a chart floating around that shows who is fighting GMO labeling and who is supporting it in WA. I use it when I go shopping and yes, some of the products I’ve purchased in the past come from companies fighting WA. Let me know if you can’t find it. I get that having to label a product 50 different ways could put a hardship on business so I would support a federal label that is nothing less than FULL disclosure. That said, I don’t trust the FDA or any other governmental agency to have my best interest at heart. I’m a big fan of personal responsibility. The government assumes I’m ignorant…, I believe it’s a choice. (Whoops, gone political.)

I’m glad you were able to find a farm so quickly to meet your raw needs. Don’t forget to pick up chicken feet, green tripe, testicles, heart, kidneys… Go for goat and rabbit as well as chicken, turkey and beef. Something that I would have gotten wrong is differentiating between what are considered organs and what is not.

Organs: Liver (5% of the diet), kidneys, spleen, brain, thymus gland, panaceas and testicles (the other 5%)

Not organs: Heart, Gizzard, Tongue, lung, trachea, green tripe (all considered as part of the 80%).

Another site for learning more about feeding raw is here: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=116. It’s a culling of articles from a variety of sources.

I better turn my attention to the vacuum and washer now or I’m going to be overrun by tumblefurs. I look forward to seeing you on Facebook soon.

[MastiffLove]

Thank you very much for your help RDM and yes i meant question 7….so if i recap i can mix the meat(s) fruits and boiled veggies and freeze and once thawed out add the supplements before serving.

Thank you theBCnut for that info! there’s actually alot of em in my area, i will make some phone calls! 🙂

should i grind the tripe like the meat or have it coarse grind to get Zeus to chew on it to get some teeth brushing going on? From what i read its a chewy type of organ?

Sorry for all those questions but i wanna make this right (still have a long way to g but i’m working on it) and have a healthy family member! 😛

[DogFoodie]

Hi Jan,

I’m so glad you responded! I knew I recalled that you weren’t pleased with Merrick and while I mis-stated it had caused GI upset, I now recall that it was more of a QC issue after reading your post.

I definitely believe that a product has to pass the sleep test. If my gut instinct causes me angst and worry, I won’t use it. I really have to feel confident in products that I choose. So, I think I’ll continue to take a pass on Merrick.

I”ve also tried Victor and unfortunately, it didn’t work for Sam. We tried the GF ALS formula in the red bag. It worked fine for Bella, but Sam doesn’t seem to do well on foods with lots of fruits and veggies, which it had. I would however, recommend it to others. It was great to find a fish free food though! There are plenty of other products; ie: Merrick, that the entire product line contains either fish or fish meal that I’d love him to try, but can’t. I also bought a bag of Victor Lamb Meal & Brown Rice, which is closer to a more limited ingredient food and its also fish free. I’m going to try that after he finished what he’s eating now, which is Canine Caviar.

[Arlosmom]

Hello, I’m looking for some advice and hope to find help here. I’ve read through the wealth of info on LBP nutrition here – thank you to all contributors! I just picked up our new Boxer pup (expected to top out at approx. 80lbs or so based on parents) and have had him home for just a couple days shy of 1 week. He is 9 weeks tomorrow. The breeder had the pups on Fromm Gold puppy supplementing with rice, beef, sardines, yogurt, pumpkin. Upon bringing him home, I thought I’d keep him on the food for a couple of weeks and the same regime. I have added toppers of Wellness and Trippet – just a spoonful. I planned on switching to Large Breed puppy Fromm and also wanted to pick another food from HDM’s list. I discovered yesterday that he is knuckling over – more pronounced on his left front than right but both seem to be effected. What I think it might be as that upon getting him home I instituted 2-3 very short walks each day (5-10 minutes max.) I have 3 other dogs so he has also engaged in play and my floors and the ground outside that he is on are all hard surfaces. I thought I should discontinue the walks immediately and have done so. Any advice is welcome – should I change foods right away? Information is conflicting – I’ve read that when this happens protein should be reduced and vit. C introduced?? Do you think the short walks contributed/caused this?? I can send pics as well but would need direction on how/where to post. THANK YOU in advance.

[theBCnut]

Yikes!! I screwed that up. I wasn’t talking about Darwin’s at all in that second paragraph. I was saying that in the Editor’s Choice FAQs it says that renewal will be automatic each year if you don’t specifically cancel your membership. I didn’t see that mentioned anywhere before I signed up. It doesn’t matter, except that I never would have known if I hadn’t read the FAQs and I like knowing things like that before I sign up for things.

[Cyndi]

HDM, that’s where I found that info. When I click on Edit your membership, at the bottom it says Subscription start date is Sept. 27, 2013. I just signed up today. Someplace else I read that I have been a member since April 2013, or something like that, which is when I signed up on DFA.

Can anyone else check their subscription start date and see when it says?

[Haywood U]

Thanks. With all the recalls and other things going wrong with things we give our pets (treats and toys), I just get worried. I read some of those things where the dogs stop eating because the food is causing problems, but eventually the dog is going to get hungry and eat. Then I look and see the other dog is eating the same food and no issues…but each dog is different. Of course the kicker was seeing her have no problems eating the same exact food from the other dog’s bowl.

I do sort of rotate food out – we buy several different brands and mix the food.

Previous dogs were always fed the “bad” food – Alpo, Ol Roy, KnB. All lived to 12-15 years and never had any vet tell me they were anything other than healthy. Somehow we managed to miss all the food recalls.

The new dog was quickly transitioned from Hill’s (rescue shelter said that is what they used, but she never seemed interested, always ran to the other dog’s food), to Puppy Chow, to finally forcing me to renew my Costco membership to get Kirkland.

So now it’s basically a 40lb bag of Kirkland and a 20lb bag of other stuff and mix it up in a 2:1 ratio (good to “bad”). Used to be out of financial necessity, but now it’s basically just for the variety. I guess we could just as easily mix up the Kirkland Chicken with the Kirkland Lamb and get the same results, but it’s also nice to know that if we ever run out, or are out of town, we can just run to the closest Walmart and grab a bag of food.

I’d like to stick with the twice a day feeding – seems to work the best for the older dog, and no need to upset the routine. I know I wouldn’t want to have to eat my entire daily food in one sitting and have it all sitting my system trying to digest.

[Naturella]

Bruno (my Rat Terrier Mix) has been doing the same recently – my guess is that he’s getting bored with the current food and is ready for a change. Lucky for him, I am beginning the switch Thursday or so. He has been on this food for about/over 3 months or so. He wouldn’t eat all day, and then eat about the whole amount he was supposed to eat split into 3 feedings, almost all at once.

As Patty said, try a rotation, and keep the food away for a while, then reintroduce. I have been mixing a little bit of canned in Bruno’s along with other additives for other reasons besides general health, and he loves it when there is a little something extra special in his bowl in addition to the same old kibble and eats his portion just fine. This helps me keep him at 3 meals a day.

[Akari_32]

He’s approached me several times again tonight! He tends to hang around for a minute or two, then go off a short distance (like the back of the couch behind my head), and keep “guard” or watch the dog. He’s also hitting off a bit better with Bentley. He likes the dog from a distance best (hey, even I don’t blame him for that LOL), but tonight the cat was starting games with him. Annoying games. Like, flat-out-sprint-across-the-house-and-see-if-the-dog-can-catch-him games. Omg I was ready to kill them both LOL

Anyways, I made room in the dog food cabinet for all this cat food. Before I started, I pulled out two bags of food to make room for the cans, went into the kitchen for a minute, and came back out to this…

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/3019261A-8FC0-40F7-BCE2-E9981B2546A9_zpshqvhkfxd.jpg

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/E1BA8B04-AD9E-4F98-A609-FBF141BE380F_zps5ztpaqhj.jpg

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/2A46772B-40BA-4DE5-890C-83F400CFB78C_zpsl9lecxr5.jpg

I guess the dogs have a new item on their menu LOL

Anyways, I sorted out all the cat food so that he gets Friskies Special Diet every other day to every two days. There’s too many to spread it out more than that, but it should be ok, I think. Here’s my stash:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/5040055C-2DCF-4C23-B06C-15605A8EA106_zpshzqnomrz.jpg

That can of Pedigree (sshhhhhhhhh), that’s it. Everything behind that is cat food. I could have stacked more, but I was trying to keep daily portions as separate as possible. This cat is set for a while, that’s for sure! Lol

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Akari_32.

[Haywood U]

Having an issue with my dog – we feed her in her crate (2 dogs, so feed them separate), and very often she will not touch the food, skipping meals altogether.

She hasn’t been sick, stools look normal, and energy levels are normal.

At first we thought she just didn’t like to eat in the crate, or was worried about not being able to get out to relieve herself, but this is the same routine we’ve had since we got her.

Routine is always the same – they go outside for 20-30 min morning romp. We bring them back inside, and into crate with bowl of food for 15-20 min. Back out for more romp time while we get ready for work – usually 30-45 min depending on the weather, then back inside.

Funny thing is, she will eat the same exact food if we put it in the other dog’s bowl – as if she’s sneaking it and doing something naughty.

Would love for that to be the answer, but we can’t crate the older dog (he’s too big, too old, and too stubborn), and we don’t want to deal with baby gates to keep him from eating again. And quite frankly I’m not going to pamper her – this is the same routine we’ve had since we got her a year ago.

She just had her check-up and everything was normal and healthy.

Sometimes I will take the food bowl out when I put her back in the crate, and other times will just leave it for her. Many times my wife will come home and the food is still there.

Should I be worried, or is this just a sign of her not being hungry?

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

YAAY for you, more so for your dog!!! In addition to Dr. Becker’s book, get Kymythy’s book too. Amazon has it on Kindle so you can start using it right away.

If you’re going to go raw, I’d just go for it. Pups aren’t addicted to kibble the way adult dogs who’ve been raised on it are. There will be no need for a transition period. When I decided to transition Mystery to raw, I thought I’d feed raw in the morning and kibble at dinner. A couple days later it occurred to me, if he’s eating the raw in the morning, why not just feed raw for dinner too? I pitched the kibble. So far, I haven’t had any problem feeding Mystery any kind of meat. Unless there’s something inherently wrong with your pup (what’s his name?), everything should be considered fair game (NPI), just keep an eye on him as you introduce new food. Supplementation should be done on an as needed basis.

Since he’s a pup, keep it as simple as possible. I fretted over all sorts of stuff – for no good reason. Mystery’s first few meals consisted of an organic whole chicken that I brought home and cut up myself. It was about five pounds and lasted two days. The liver, neck and gizzards were included so he got those as well. You’ll hear a lot about “balancing over time”. This simply means that you’re to feed 80% muscle, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organs (the balance) over a period of a few days or so. You don’t have to make sure every meal is balanced, just perhaps the week’s meals are.

Mystery’s first couple of weeks weren’t entirely balanced at all while I was trying to locate sources of raw food. When I finally made the decision to go raw, I knew I didn’t want a bunch of frozen patties and chubs. I wanted to feed whole slabs of meat. I’m still working out local sources for purchasing a half a cow here, 20 chicken there, some rabbit… A number of folks here suggested a company that ships whole foods so I started there but the shipping is expensive which is why everyone needs local sources. Do some Google searches for raw food co-ops in your area.

The cost for raw food is definitely more expensive than cheap kibble, however, the tradeoff is that you won’t have as many vet bills to pay because your dog will have an awesome immune system. You will learn though, to shop for deals, look for co-ops, find a friend to share a cow – yeah, you might want to start looking for a freezer so you can spend less by purchasing in bulk.

I could go on, but I’m going to suggest a few more places you will find helpful. One is the LBP raw thread (just two pages), where you’ll find some newbie questions answered: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/. I would also point you to Facebook, something I had no use for until our eighth grandchild was born – okay, the kids kept beating me up about joining, but I now use my page mostly for raw nutrition exchanges with others who are likeminded. There are a number of raw feeding groups – search “raw feeding”. Some are better than others. Search for me – I’m currently using the same image of Mystery for Facebook that I use here, and I’ll share my opinion on which I like and which I don’t. I’ll also check with some Canadian “friends” to see if they’re near you and can help you resource food.

What I’m sharing with you is nothing more than what I have gleaned from forum members here, a weekend-long webinar on raw feeding featuring holistic vets and nutritionists, and folks who attended the conference that have been feeding anywhere from a few months to over 30 years. Just wanted to be clear that I’m still new at this too. And if folks who’ve been feeding raw for 30 years still feel like they can learn something new, I’m happy to be in their company. The raw community is amazing!

[MastiffLove]

Sharon,

Thanks again for your reply!

After talking about all the dog food kibbles and other food types we can give to our puppy and reading and watching videos on http://healthypets.mercola.com/ (thanks HDM) me and my wife decided that we will go raw! It might end up being more costly in the end but at least we will know for sure what is precisely in his dog food and we can have a better control on his diet plus it just makes sense to feed him that way …you don’t find kibbles in the wild!

I’ve ordered Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats Cookbook, Probiotics, Krill Oil and Spirugreen Superfood, that way i’ll have everything on hand for whatever needs our dog has. (just mentioning what i bought so far, still more to come for a complete diet like Coconut Oil and such).

I am currently researching for a meat manufacturer that provides food stores to get the best price, luckily for me there are several in my area.

We have bought the breeders kibble (1st Choice Large pup) for the first 3 weeks, then i was thinking of switching him to Orijen (i know the calcium lvl is a bit high) for the next 2 weeks to get him on a better kibble. Then mix Orijen and Raw to finally end up to only raw.

Should i switch 1st Choice and mix it with raw after the first 3 weeks and increase the raw dosage and skip Orijen entirely?…i don’t know, it would be a faster way to get him on a better and proper food balance but he would be on 1st Choice longer and honestly i really dislike the ingredient in that kibble.

[Olivia R]

Akari_32…I just wanted to clear something up. I am the breeder with Mazer Klaver and the thread you found on the pit bull chat happens to be a breeder in California not me : ) I know both the breeder and the buyer and I had nothing to do with that situation. If you read a bit further on the pit bull forum you can see that there is a different breeder listed.

[Shasta220]

Thanks for the help, guys! Ah, yes, Dori. Drives me nuts to see everyone say that kibble cleans teeth. I mean, yeah, it’s probably better than canned, but it still gives gross buildup – if it didn’t, then my dog wouldn’t have lost a tooth! I’d love to do raw, but resources and wallet just don’t allow it.

I’ll definitely check into those brands recommended. Good to know that I’m not the only one who thinks water additives do virtually nothing. The best breath-freshener for my super picky dog (he is DISGUSTED by ANY tooth products, he’s way too smart to fall for that “chicken” flavor, or “flavorless” stuff lol!), was to smash coconut oil into the edge of a bowl and let him lick it off. That way it’d eventually spread all through his mouth; if I’d just let him chew/gulp it down, it wouldn’t have time to get everywhere.

For sure, next time I get a puppy (not seeing that for another 5-10yrs at least), oral hygiene will start right away. My rescue guy has naaasty teeth with strange brown tartar/stains that won’t come off regardless of brushing/scraping. His personality/energy makes him seem about 3y.o., but those teeth look almost as bad as a 7-8y.o. dog…dang I wish I could know about his past LOL!

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~
Don’t try adding too much to the kibble you feed. All those toppers add to nutrients already in whatever kibble you decide to feed, including perhaps calcium/phosphorus – which should be your primary concern until your Mastiff is at least six to twelve months old. Not saying you shouldn’t add anything, just be mindful of what they’re adding to the diet.

When feeding kibble, it’s unlikely that you’re going to find the perfect food for a large breed puppy. When I brought Mystery home, I’d already done several months of research on food. Although I would have preferred grain-free, I couldn’t find it with an acceptable calcium percentage. I put him on Innova LBP (which has since changed their formula and I’m not sure I’d recommend it now but it’s still better than Pro Plan, Science Diet, Iams and others). I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP when he was about nine months old and able to process excess calcium properly. Orijen will tell you that they shoot for their minimum percentage but as long as they think their maximum is acceptable (and they do hide behind the AAFCO guidelines), I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it in those early months.

Mystery is now a year old and has been on a raw diet for about two months. We’ve transitioned two more Goldens in Korea with my husband and I’m working on four cats (the kitten didn’t need transitioning). If I were to get another puppy today, she’d go straight to raw where calcium/phosphorus is perfectly balanced among protein and organs in a whole-prey diet. And still I don’t add a lot to his diet. He gets coconut oil because of a skin condition, vitamin C and curcumen because of the high cancer mortality in Goldens (though the raw diet and minimalist vaccine schedule will help that as well), and garlic for pest control. I haven’t started adding any fruits & vegetables as I’m still researching their benefits (or lack thereof).

Good to see your note about not feeding RC!