[Patricia V]

Hello,

I am new to this so not sure how this works but I am hoping someone can help me. My dog just died a couple of days ago and I have a strong suspicion it is due to the prescription food that was given to him. I read consumer reviews online on consumeraffairs.com and a lot of people recently were having same issues w/ their Science Diet prescription food as well. To the best of my knowledge, there hasn’t been a recall on their food yet – most complaints were very recent – within the last month or so.. and so interested in finding out if anyone here has had any bad experiences w/ their food products? If I were to get it tested, any ideas on what to test for? I did a little research, and there are so many different varieties of things that could be tested and I need to narrow it down a bit. My dog died of liver failure and other than being a little underweight he was the happiest pup ever just 2 weeks ago. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. I want to find out if this food was the cause of my pup’s death and make sure this company pays for what they have done.

[Luisa P]

I have done so much ready and I am exhausted!! Bottom line is, I wish I could just cook fresh food for my Dalmatian but realistically I know I can’t. All the information online is overwhelming because some sites do talk about fresh food, but then you need to add vitamins, etc. to make sure they are getting a balanced meal. My biggest challenge is that not only do I feed my Dalmatian, but I have 7 other dogs. So to make fresh food every day is not realistic for me. So I decided to meet in the middle. I am currently giving
one of the highly recommended grain free formulas from this website, but I give 1 cup less and then I supplement that with fresh homemade food. The biggest thing that I have learned from the Dalmatian diet is that you need to make sure you float their food with water. If your water source is high in minerals, then I would use distilled. I am attaching something important that I have found and do follow with my daly.

Traffic light system:
Green Light Purines – These foods are virtually Purine free they can be fed as often as you like and to stone forming dogs. Food stuffs
Whole grain yeast free bread
Whole grain yeast free cereals
Most vegetables (see high purine exceptions below) Not onions or Garlic.
Fruits (some fruits are toxic to dogs see list below)
Nuts (except Macadamia nuts)
Peanut Butter
Pasta
Eggs
Cheese
Yellow light Purines – The following foods are considered to contain a moderate level of purines and are acceptable in diets for stone-forming dog breeds. Most or even all of your Dalmatian’s protein sources should come from this list as opposed to the “Red Light” purines listed in the next section Most Poultry including Chicken and Turkey
Fish and Shellfish (see exceptions below)
Lamb
Pork
Beef
Oats and Oatmeal

Red light Purines – The following foods contain the highest levels of purines and should be avoided as much as possible to help prevent stone formation: Kidneys
Hearts
Brains
Liver
Sweetbreads
Venison
Duck
Goose
Sardines
Mackerel
Muscles
Scallops
Cauliflower
Spinach
Peas
Mushrooms
Legumes (kidney beans, lentils)
Yeast (including brewers yeast)
Gravy

If you have a FB account, you could join a private group called Dalmatian Addiction, there are a lot of great people there who share great info and pictures of their dogs.

[Madelon H]

Susan – thanks once again for the helpful information. I have read that article and several others – lol!! When I looked back at my EPI log I had noted each time he was given the Droncit (always with his supper) he would wake in the middle of the night shaking his head horribly and scratching his ears and they would be red and gooey – then he’d vomit bile – it would be over in about 24 hours – which according to the vet is how long the Droncit stays in their system. He never had a problem until the Droncit but then again he was given Droncit after his EPI diagnosis and at the same time switching foods. Interesting about Tylan having the same effectiveness no matter the dose. I just want to start all over – like I said get him off of everything and then do one thing at a time. The worms came back as two types of fly larvae – a plant based fly and botfly- the vet wasn’t able to talk to the Parasitology department as they were closed but said from talking to them before she thinks they are passing through him alive because of his compromised system whereas in a healthy dog they would likely die before being passed. I have a fenced in yard – plenty of room to run but I can see everything and since he was diagnosed and I began looking at every poop he now won’t go outside unless your with him – hoping he gets over that before winter – I hate cold weather!! As for the “leave it”. I have used that command for many years with my dogs – doc knows it but doesn’t always follow it – lol!! He’s so smart – he knows when I’m gloved up with bag and shovel after he’s pooped that I’m scooping and he will then find me piles of bunny poop – its hard to find bunny poop but I’m getting pretty good at it – scooped five piles this am :). So as far as diet with the yeast – before EPI he was on RC GSD puppy – hydrolysed yeast and rice – ingredients appear to be on the low carb/low sugar side of things – the TOTW I put him on after diagnosis was definitely not – potatoes, sweet potatoes. What I was recently trying to switch him to Natures Logic is very low carb low natural sugar – it had millet and some dried fruits and veggies but all appeared to be on the low sugar side and at that time was when we got the infection diagnosis. SO I’m not sending the bags back (two aren’t opened) because I want to use the rx food for a few months get some normal poop going again let his system get over everything and rebalance itself and then see where we are at. I didn’t do the shots of B12 – the vet didn’t believe in it – his B12 was at 406 so I ordered the Trinfac-b from wonderlab – he gets 3 capsules a day. I haven’t re-tested the levels yet as we are going to have the entire EPI panel run again because the breeder doesn’t believe he’s EPI because at 3mos when he was tested it was normal – I’m writing a 6 page letter to send when we have him re-tested because I want her to inform the other litter mates that there’s a possibility of this happening to them at some point and not to mate the two dogs again – they were mated earlier this year prior to me notifying her. I tried to join the Facebook page yesterday it kept saying pending – I’ll have to check again to see if I was accepted. I would like to get him neutered this winter – have you heard of any problems with that after being diagnosed EPI?

[Madelon H]

Hey Susan – well I have been on a roller coaster ride with Doc for sure!! After all of your information and my own researching I reached out to Nature’s Logic – I really liked that the founder of the company immediately emailed me himself and without me going into detail about EPI and SIBO he said Doc needed a diet low carb/low natural sugar diet which their food is. The bags say 5% fiber but Dog Food Advisor put it at 4% and the company says it’s between 3-5% but the bag has to have the “max”. So I tried the chicken – he did okay, then i tried sardine (noticed a lot of acid reflux) and we are trying the rabbit now. My vet said to give a food 2 full weeks before deciding if it works or not – I haven’t been doing that 🙁 During this time I was finally able to take a poop sample in with the “worm” – the other vet at the practice who i like much better said she finally saw it and it’s DEFINITELY not tapeworm – which is great but unfortunately Doc had been given 4 doses of Droncit and I believe he’s allergic to Droncit – immediately after getting it his ears flare up and he becomes really itchy and vomits bile. SO of course I feel horrible – she said it looks like fly larvae – we are stumped about him passing live fly larvae – we sent it out for testing and are awaiting the results. What i’ve read online I believe it’s called pseudomyiasis – I think he’s getting it from eating rabbit poop or grass where flies have deposited their eggs and the eggs have hatched and Doc eats it – he LOVES rabbit poop. Anyway, I realized he was passing live larvae I took him in for a full rectal exam and through once over – I asked her to check his ear (I had been asking the other vet but he never did) – came back positive 4 out of 4 for yeast, bacteria and rod in the left ear and 1 out of 4 for yeast in the right ear and he has a yeast infection between his toes. We are not sure if this is from the Droncit or the Tylan that he’s been on or if he could be allergic to yeast altogether. After his first bout of SIBO as a puppy he was put on Royal Canin LF Gastro kibble and did fine then switched to Royal Canin Large Breed Puppy Developmental (rx) then switched to Royal Canin GSD Puppy – he did GREAT. SO, I’m thinking the yeast infections he currently has is from the Droncit. We’ve given him a bath with medicated shampoo for his yeasty paws but he is still itchy on his body – his ears are doing much better and his paws but still itchy on the body – not sure if that’s food related or environmental. SO I decided to go back to what worked last time and I bought the RC Gastro kibble and am going to mix that with the rabbit food and get him completely on the RC Gastro and wean off the Tylan (he’s been on it for 60 days). Then I’m going to keep him on the RC Gastro for with a probiotic (doesn’t appear there is any in the kibble) for a month or two and let his insides settle down then I’m thinking about trying the RC GSD Adult (when I read the description it talks about low fermentable foods, etc – it actually sounds like a good food – fiber is a bit high but if it works it works) – I’ve spent hundreds in dog foods that I have sitting half eaten or unopen altogether at this point and am tired of dealing with it and feeling badly for poor Doc.

[Kat]

I am interested in hearing about this product as well. Had to run to HEB for emergency dog food for the morning time. I had gotten off work late and was unable to make it to the specialty store where I normally go for my dog’s food, which closes early. I knew I wouldn’t find much at the grocery store but I crossed my fingers. I found Heritage Ranch (I only needed some for the morning, so I bought the canned kind). Reading the label.. it didn’t sound all to bad. At least compared to all the others that said “meat meal” as first ingredient. I’m certainly not looking to switch my dog food over to this, but I am quite curious about it.

[Kimberly W]

Hi all,

I have a puppy-mill Boston Terrier female named Lexie. I got her at 1 year old and she was in bad shape – demodex mange being one of the issues. We got rid of the mange, but she itches almost constantly still ….. especially mid-back and butt. Her tail has a spot where she’s rubbed all the hair off and now it’s like a callous there. I’ve tried all different proteins (even ground raw venison!) and grain-free foods, allergic injections, prednisone ….. even trying an immuno-therapy serum for common Florida allergens. She’s currently on Apoquel at $2 per DAY ….. it does help, but she still itches. I liked the idea of the Dinovite supplement + the raw diet they promote and switched her over VERY slowly. My first box of Dinovite lasted over 60 days. Lexie has a very touchy tummy and I didn’t want her to get sick. She seemed to do okay with the supplement and the diet, but we noticed that only the Apoquel made her scratch less. And by no means did the scratching stop ….. :/

So, into the 2nd box of Dinovite, Lexie started spitting up after eating. This had happened all along, but just once in awhile – now she was doing it after almost every meal. And it wasn’t RIGHT AFTER she ate, it was hours afterwards. Like we were sleeping at 3am and she’d vomit in the bed with us. And it was always GREEN. Like she was just spitting up just the Dinovite. We weaned her back onto the white fish based kibble she’d been on (that we were sure didn’t make her sick) and just put the Dinovite in that – thinking we’d eliminate the chance that it was the raw food. She STILL would vomit only green stuff.

I’m at my wits end here. I hate thinking she’s miserable. We have really tried a ton of stuff, but I think something in the Dinovite is making her sick. I’m wondering if all the time she was on the raw diet, it was moving the toxins from the crappy food she was fed (before I got her) OUT of her body and then, the grain (sorghum) in the Dinovite finally made her sick????

I wish I could post a picture – she looks SO good – hair is all grown in from where the demodex had her bald, so glossy she shines in the sun ….. everyone comments on how beautiful she is ….. but she itches. Almost all the time. Doesn’t lick her paws and her skin doesn’t smell at all, her ears are pretty pink inside ….. no yeast that I can see manifesting itself on her body anywhere. When I scratch her back where you can obviously tell it itches the MOST, there is some dandruff that comes out. She has no fleas and I’ve washed her with DermaBenss shampoo – as suggested by my vet – for the flaking skin ….. but when that didn’t work, I used a soap-free emu oil shampoo that’s FOR DRY SKIN and that didn’t help either.

This is what a meal looks like for Lexie:

1/2 cup of white fish based kibble – NO GRAINS (no corn, wheat or soy)
3 pumps of Yummy Chummies salmon oil
baked sweet potato or canned pumpkin
2 capsules of food enzymes (opened and sprinkled on the food)
Drs. Foster and Smith adult vitamin
vitamin E capsule – 400IU
***Also, before bed, I’m giving Lexie 2 capsules of bifidophilus, to help repopulate the good bacteria in her intestines.***
***We only use one kind of treats – Yummy Chummies Grain Free treats made with 95% salmon + potato and pea flour.***

The food we are using scores a 3.5 star on the food advisory list and I’m willing to buy her a 5 star food, but am not sure that food is her only issue. Does anyone have ANY suggestions for me? I’d be very grateful for any ideas that I haven’t already explored. Another supplement? A different shampoo? Anything I haven’t thought of or don’t know how to look for? I’ve even wondered if the itching is just a HABIT and maybe she doesn’t know how to stop ….. :/

Thanks for any thoughts!!!!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Kimberly W.

[Pitlove]

Honestly and this is just MY opinion, but I don’t feel there is a huge difference between grain free and grain inclusive. Any type of carbohydrate in a dry kibble is extra ingredients that are only there to bind the food together. AAFCO does not even recognize carbohydrates as a required nutrient for dogs because they can thrive without them. There is only one dry kibble on the market that is close to what a dog would intake carbohydrate wise if it were wild and that is Wysong Epigen 90, as it reads 4% carbs on a dry matter basis.

It really becomes a matter of personal preference. I usually end up feeding grain free because like aquariangt said, grain free foods have a tendency to be higher in protein. However, if you don’t see a whole meat or meat meal within the first three ingredients, you can almost bet your money the protein is coming mainly from plant sources. So do not be deceived by a high protein % if the foods ingredient panel reads something like this for the first few ingredients; Chicken, Peas, Sweet Potatoe, Pea Flour. You have Chicken listed first and thats great, but chicken is 80% water and that moisture is cooked out of the chicken when it becomes extrued into dog kibble. So that means the majority of the food is actually the next 3 ingredients. I’ve seen a lot of grain-free kibbles like this. Even one of my favorite companies- Fromm- is guilty of this.

[Susan]

Hi I’d say it’s the ingredients in the Purina dog chow, making her yeasty & has the yeasty ears, there has to be other cheap kibbles that have better ingredients then the Purina dog chow that cost maybe an extra $5 a bag, I’ve read on this site a few people feeding Racheal Ray Nutrish or Victor grain free, they are suppose to be good & cost less….I always recommend the “California Natural Lamb & Rice” large bites, it has only 4 ingredients & helps dogs with skin problems that need a limited ingredient kibble… but I don’t know how much the California Natural cost http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products/1181

With cooking it works out dearer I have found & you need to balance the diet or she will have other health problems….I buy extra lean beef mince & add cooked boiled broccoli, celery, carrot & quiona & put in a cup to get the 1 cup size & make little meat loaves & bake in oven & then freeze them all in seal lock bags, stay away from starchy veggetables like potatoes, peas etc, green veggies are the best for yeast problems, even if you feed say kibble for breakfast & the cooked meal for dinner, so that way she is getting less of the kibble also tin Sardines in spring water are cheap, I buy 3 tins of sardines in spring water for $2 at the supermarket & mix some sardines thru her kibble, I feed the Purina Supercoat wet tin Lamb & veggies casserole tin food for breakfast, I live in Australia, I think the ingredients may be different to the American Purina, the Purina Lamb & Veggie casserole is the only wet tin food that my dog doesn’t regurgitate back up or have diarrhea on..

also Malaseb medicated shampoo, the Malaseb kills the bacteria on the skin & ears, even if you buy a cheaper antibacterial shampoo to bath her weekly in, I’ve read someone saying Walmart sell a good antibacterial shampoo for dogs, I don’t know the name, just look for antibacterial shampoo…
The new shampoo & weekly baths & change part of the diet will really help her, even if you just change 1 meal, then see how she is doing, you may not need to see a vet if it all clears up…my boy yeast problem went away within 3 days of changing his food & baths in the Malaseb medicated shampoo, he didn’t get his itchy ears & skin back….

You may not have much money but I bet your dogs don’t care & would rather live with you then a new owner who has money especially having bull breeds they are sooooo loyal & never forget…..I rescued my boy over 2 & 1/2 years ago & he still runs up to men in work clothes when he sees them on our walks, so he hasn’t forgotten his old owner…I wish he would forget lol

[Melissa S]

My pitbull, Ktulu, is having really bad skin problems. Just recently her right ear also became crusty and irritated on the inside. This has happened before to both of her ears, once. We cleaned them out with Keto (we have a prescription from the vet) and it never returned. Until now. She’s also always had skin issues on her stomach and flanks.

It’s gotten incredibly worse and her skin has become darkly pigmented, has lost hair, and I know she’s miserable. She smells like dog. Not like yeast or cheese or stinky feet. Another thing to keep in mind is that because of our living situation, the dogs must stay outside at all times. (Yeah, I know. I hate it, but this isn’t my house and we can’t afford to move to our own)

We haven’t taken her to the vet for this, because I’m afraid they’re going to try and do all kinds of unnecessary tests and give us drugs that won’t work or try to get us to buy Hills Science Diet (which I’m not a fan of at all). Although, I’m thinking that I will, just to see if they’ll take cultures and help us determine if this is a yeast issue (I think it is, along with allergies).

Now, that’s not really my issue. My issue is my partner thinks what we feed our dogs is just fine (Purina Dog Chow-please don’t judge us!). I’ve never liked it, but with our limited budget and our dogs liking it, I thought that it was okay for the time being. Well, the time being has passed and I can’t take it anymore. I’m even considering giving the dogs to people who can properly take care of them (ie. have more money).

If I were to start with a homemade diet, where do I actually start? How expensive is it really going to be? How do I make sure my dogs are getting all the required nutrients? Do you think this is the best route to go considering her skin issues?

I was looking into already prepared raw and freeze-dried, but with how large both of my dogs are, it’s out of the question regarding costs. Also, I want to make sure that I can pinpoint any food allergies as well, and so many of these commercially prepared foods have tons of ingredients.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Sharen R]

Thanks so much Gina for writing me. Nemo doesnt eat any fatty foods..see when we got him, we were told that he is genetically prone to being obese, with Nemo, if you put an entire can of wet food in front of him he would eat the whole thing. He’s not a dog that you can leave food in the bowl and he will get it when its time to eat, he will just eat it all right there..the Wet food that he is on is ID, its for dogs with sensitive stomachs so that is what he eats..he used to be able to eat a while back a tiny piece of steak or a small amount of bread but no more, he will have nothing but wet food from now on, no dry food, maybe the dry food irritates his stomach not sure, he would be on it for three weeks(A mix of dry and wet food) and then the problem would start again so we just leave him on wet food, as long as he feels good and is hungry throughout the day and feeling good that is what matters. We also take him for a walk everyday(Today we couldnt were too busy) but the Vet said that walking is good for the body and good for the pancreas so we have been doing that everyday, he poops normally, just want him to be healthy and happy and eat his food everyday so his pancreas can heal and he can go back to eating what he used to(Three times per day)

[Susan]

Hi Wifsie, when I rescued my boy about 2 years ago he had the same swallowing & swallowing & worse at night & what I’ve learnt is too LOWER the FAT & protein in the kibble & kibble makes it worse, I’m finding low fat cooked meals seem to be the best & low fat wet tin foods 3% fat & under for wet tin foods, the fat% is different in wet tin food to the fat % in kibbles…
I buy extra lean beef ground mince or the lean turkey breast mince & add broccoli, celery, carrot & quiona that I’ve already boiled made into a meatloaf & baked in oven, I feed wet food for breakfast & soften kibble for lunch & wet for dinner sometimes kibble, you could change it around & feed kibble for breakfast & wet tin or cooked meal for dinner & see if there’s a difference… the fat in the Taste Of the Wild is high, when it says min fat add another 2% for max %…..
if you do soak the kibble in water make sure you fully drain all the water, squeeze the soft kibble while in the bowl, then I put thru a blender for 3-5 sec, the kibble should fluff up & separate, not be a ball of gluggy glue kibble, it means you soaked the kibble in water too long if its a gluggy ball, some kibbles when soaked only take about 30-60mins & are soft, I’ve found kibbles with rice are better & digest easier then kibbles with potatoes, sweet potatoes.. I’ve just read that water can make acid reflux worse if water is left in with the kibble in bowl, something about the Ph levels in the stomach rising & making more stomach acid (Hydrochloric acid)…. if you still want to feed a kibble & see if he gets better on another brand, look for a lower protein around 24% & lower fat around 10% & a limited ingredient kibble, so less problems of 1 ingredient giving him acid reflux…like us some people can eat tomatoes, garlic, raw onions etc & are fine, when I eat acidy foods, I get bad acid reflux…. I look for a kibbles with rice without tomato pomace & all those added ingredients, I’m going to try the “EarthBorn Holistic Ocean Fusion” next I running out of kibbles to try, I’m worried cause the fat % is 12% min so max will be around 14% http://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/us/dog_formulas/
I have found when I feed a low fat 10-12% fat & higher protein 30% kibble, Patch had his bad swallowing & swallowing again… you may have to try a few different kibbles to find the right one…. “The Honest Kitchen Zeal” is suppose to be very good for dogs with stomach & skin problem…. http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/zeal fat is 8.50% but the protein is higher at 35.50%…. there’s a lot of really good kibbles & wet tin foods in America so google around before deciding & make sure its money back guaranteed….I just say my boy wont eat it, when I start saying he gets acid reflux or sloopy poos the lady just looks at me weird…..I feel embarrassed when returning foods..

If after you change her diet a few times to a lower fat, lower protein & if she is still swallowing & eating grass, ask vet can you have an Endoscope & Biopsies done on the stomach & make sure the biopsies are done, After changing my boys diet & giving ant-acid meds, Patch was still having his acid reflux on & off waking up about 11pm & was bad in morning about 10am after eating, so the Vet did a Endoscope & Biopsies & found Helicobacter-Pylori often found in shelter-pound dogs…. also what I do when I see Patch swallowing & eating grass & uncomfortable, I give him about 4ml liquid Mylanta in a syringe, some people use Pepto Bismol but we don’t have Pepto in Australia..it gives instant relief, please keep us updated on your girl & what worked for your new girl…..

[Pitlove]

“And it’s pretty bizarre to see in one paragraph a complaint that I don’t provide scientific evidence, then a suggestion such evidence doesn’t matter anyway since “science changes,” and then an argument that good evidence concerning raw diets is impractical anyway so we should all just rely on anecdotes. Since you clearly don’t think science matters, it’s pretty hypocritical (and, of course, factually incorrect) to complain that I don’t provide any scientific evidence.”

Science is constantly changing and as a DVM I’m certain you were taught that in your classes. If not maybe consider going back and take a more up to date biology class. It was discussed frequently in all of my biology and psychology classes. Also I am a firm believer in science and I do not like to 100% give into an idea if I can not see any tangable evidence of the success or failure of an idea or practice. I simply said (and this is true) that it is impossible to do a feeding trial on ANY type of dog food be it kibble, canned, raw whatever long enough to 100% know the long term effects of feeding that food for years of a dogs life. And I did not say that anecdotes should be the only thing considered, I said that they need to be factored in and taken into account regardless of there lack of data based science BECAUSE feeding trials can not accurately show long term effects of feeding a certain diet to a dog.

If you are going to respond to something I say, please read what I wrote more carefully next time.

[SkeptVet]

Wow! It appears to be impossible for some here to disagree with someone else without being abusive and outright lying about them. Apart from being dishonest and gratuitously mean, it doesn’t really help answer the OP’s question, so it’s just snarking to make yourselves feel better.

For the record-
1. I’m not “extremely against raw diets.” I think the arguments made in favor of them range from complete nonsense to reasonable but unproven. The bottom line is that such diets might or might not have health benefits but no one has yet done the research to prove it, and all the armchair theorizing and anecdotes in the world won’t substitute for that.

And while the benefits are unproven, some of the risks are known. They are small, and not a reason to avoid raw diets if some benefits do turn out to show up in scientific studies some day, but there’s no reason to take even small risks when the only evidence is guesswork.

So I am skeptical of raw diets, but like anyone who understands how science works I proportion my judgments to the evidence, and since the evidence is almost non-existent I don’t make definitive judgments for or against the practice.

2. As for the UTI mentioned in the OP, I am not aware of any evidence that suggests raw diets increase the risk of UTIs. Sure, they expose pets to additional bacterial pathogens, but most of the common UTI organisms are already ubiquitous, and it seems unlikely that a few more would make a huge difference.

3. I won’t bother responding to the vapid and silly personal stuff, but anyone who actually reads my articles on raw diets will see plenty of links to original research studies.

And it’s pretty bizarre to see in one paragraph a complaint that I don’t provide scientific evidence, then a suggestion such evidence doesn’t matter anyway since “science changes,” and then an argument that good evidence concerning raw diets is impractical anyway so we should all just rely on anecdotes. Since you clearly don’t think science matters, it’s pretty hypocritical (and, of course, factually incorrect) to complain that I don’t provide any scientific evidence.

Bottom line is that I doubt the diet has anything to do with the UTI problems in this case, and I cannot understand why adults can’t discuss and debate these sorts of issues without all of the hyperbole and personal abuse. Even if you don’t like my opinions, try to cite them accurately.

[M Y]

Pugs carry a genetic disorder called PDE (Pug Dog Encephalitis) The main symptoms of which are seizures. It’s very common in pugs. It effects them at any age and can either come on slowly over time or instantly without any warnings. You may want to check into that as the cause of the dogs seizures and not the treats. I have not seen any recalls on canine carry outs. Mostly just people guessing thats what it may be and a lot of fake info about the treats floating around that has been proven to be incorrect but freaks everyone out after they read it. The main fake info floating around is that it has antifreeze in it (ethelene glycol) but there is none of that in it. There is however propylene glycol which is used in human food & dog foods and a ton of items we & our pets eat which is safe for consumption by us & our furry dog kids. It is not used in cat foods though. Check into PDE as the cause for the seizures.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by M Y.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by M Y.

[Leslie J]

We have two collies, who weigh approx. 70 pounds each. We did the switchover to Zignature Trout and Salmon about 2 months ago from Fromm’s Duck/Sweet Potato. They love the Zignature! This is our first experience with grain free and from what I have read, I thought there would be less dog poop with being on grain free. We’ve seen the opposite with Zignature. Good solid poop, but alot more of it. My concern is that they aren’t digesting it properly, although I know it is a high fiber food. They also have lots a about 4 pounds since the switchover, but I attributed that to going grain free. I’ve been feeding them 3 cups throughout the day, even though I’m feeding more than what the guidelines recommend. I just don’t want them to lose any more weight and I would like to keep them on the Zignature. Has anyone else experienced this? Is it true that I can expect a weight loss after going grain free? I really don’t want them to lose anymore weight. They are both at a good weight now. I’m also giving them canned pumpkin for good digestion. They love that too!! Thanks so much!!

[Brianna D]

Hi! I’ve got a 1 year and 6 month old husky German Shepard mix. Sadly, he’s only 35 lbs due to health issues with his pancreas where he isn’t absorbing enough nutrients. I was going to switch him to blue buffalo food ($$$$$$$) but then someone mentioned I try a raw food diet to help with his digestive issues (food allergies & lack of nutrients, etc) I’ve been doing research for the past 3 days trying to figure out where to start and I’m still lost.

Someone told me they just feed their husky raw chicken & steak and steamed veggies. Everything else I’m reading online is saying organs and stuff like that. I want to make sure I’m doing this right and I’d love to see some weight gain within the next 30 days. Also, I see raw food lists and all of them have multiple different things like chicken backs and grass fed beef 1 whole egg. Is that how much you feed in one day?

Any information would help! I’ve read the measuring chart but unfortunately can’t find my food scale to measure. I’ll probably buy a new one but right now, I’m feeling very overwhelmed and could use some help! Thanks 🙂

[Sharen R]

Hi everyone new here to the forums. We have an 11 year old Pomeranian(basically he’s 90 percent Pomeranian, the rest is mixed with other breeds) named Nemo..he has had Pancreatitis about 3 times in his lifetime but this time it seems to be a little different. See, about a month ago, Nemo would have issues where he would wake up in the morning not wanting to eat(Which for Nemo means something isnt right this dog is obsessed with food) so the vet(Not giving him a pancreatitis blood test) suggested he take Flagyl, so we would give him Flagyl in the morning and he ate normally, no problems, but we know how Flagyl isnt good to take for a long period of time can cause neurological problems so the Vet prescribed him a pro biotic for his stomach thinking that was the cause of his problems, that night he had runny poo and the next day puked three times so rushed him to vet and he was diagnosed with pancreatitis(From the pro biotic that he took) since then he has improved greatly he gets a tablespoon every 2 hrs of his wet food(He eats ID wet food for dogs with a sensitive stomach) for two days we gave him 2 tablespoons every two hours and yesterday morning he was fine, got up and ate, but then his second meal he didnt watn to eat, had already pooped in the morning and three hours later pooped again. Maybe we were overfeeding him, then after he went for a walk and came back he was better, we gave him a cerenia just in case and is now back to his old self but on 1 tablespoon every 2 hours..what I worry about is maybe his pancreas will never bounce back so he can go back to what he used to be able to eat(Three times a day wet food) what do you all think, any advice? We worry about the lil guy he is such a good boy when he feels good he feels GOOD but when he doesnt you can tell, except for yesterday even though he didnt want any food(For about an hour) he still looked fine
Any help would be greatly appreciated thank you!

[Dori]

He could just be eating too quickly. Are we talking about your Yorkie (avatar picture)? If so, I would first try one of the bowls that are made to slow down their eating they are available in various sizes and you can buy them pretty much everywhere. Elevating bowls for toy breeds are not always recommended as I’ve read in the past that it interferes with their trachea which are already fragile to begin with and also possibly musculoskeletal issues. Let me find the article and I’ll come back and post it here. But anyway, my thought is he/she is eating too quickly and gulping air as he eats. Toy breeds aren’t usually chewers, they like to inhale their food and lots of air at the same time.

[Jennifer R]

I have a 1 year old blue nose “Bo” and same issues, I have tried changing foods, benedryl, Zertec, and nothing worked. There is a new drug on the market that works WONDERS called Apoquel but there is production issues with it being new th vet frequently runs out and my dog has to suffer all over again. Fish oil helps as far as what I have read in many different forums. But if you can get the Apoqeul your dog will be like a whole new dog, no bumps, no itching, and back to normal. I am praying they will straighten it out soon, he had been off it for only a month and old symptoms are right back again :(. Good luck everyone!

[Bobby dog]

Hi aaron s:
There are several reasons reviews can change over time. One possible reason is that the animal protein content in the individual recipe may have changed between reviews.

Not sure what date you are questioning. The original review for this specific Diamond line was posted on DFA 01/05/2010, the last update was on 04/10/2014. Are these the dates you are referring too?

Check out the FAQ section, specifically “How We Rate Dog Food” on the review side. Hopefully all your questions will be answered after you read it:

/frequently-asked-questions/rate-dog-food/

[Susan]

Hi, after Patch finished his triple therapy antibiotics Metronidazole, Amoxicillin & Zantac last December for his Helicobacter-Pylori 2-3 days after stopping his meds, I saw a tape worm on his black bum, I looked & thought is that a tape worm then the next afternoon the same another tapeworm, they look like rice but cause it was Christmas eve the vet was closed that sells his Milbemax all wormer, Patch can’t take any other all-wormers they make him ill, vomiting & pooing blood, I rung the 24 hr vets & they didn’t have the Milbemax they had another all-wormer, so I had to wait till the holidays were over to worm him…I told his vet at the time & he said, yes he often see’s tapeworms in dogs after they have been on antibiotics but he didn’t say why, he just said tapeworms won’t hurt him, I’d prefer no worms…. so the next time he had too take the Metronidazole again, I wormed him first then started the Metronidazole the next day & when he was finished taking the Metronidazole, I kept looking at his bum after he’d poo to see if I could see any more tape worms & I couldn’t….the thing is Patch doesn’t have fleas, the fleas don’t stay on him & jump back off him, the cat did have fleas at the time & Patch doesn’t kill wild prey mice, rats, rabbits, etc…

There’s several species of Tapeworms Dipylidium Caninum from fleas & Teania & Echinococcus species from mice, rats, rabbits, squirrels, deer & sheep…you have to wash all bedding everything he sleeps on.. Does Doc eat wild prey?

I was giving Patch probiotics Protexin Soluble but it was expensive $60 for 1 month, so I found another dog probiotic Vetafarm at the pet shop with the same ingredients for $20 but I don’t think the Vetafarm was as good as the Protexin & I stopped giving probiotics to him then about 3 months ago I saw a Animal Naturopath cause I wanted to put Patch on a raw diet & she sent out human live probiotic capsules that were dairy & gluten free, I had to open the capsule & put only half a capsule on the raw meal, Patches itchy smelly skin & red paws all went away within 3 days of being on the raw diet, the only problem he was regurgitating the raw, water was coming up into his mouth about 3 hours after eating the raw & he hadn’t drank any water after breakfast & he was swallowing & swallowing it, this water came out of his mouth one day while we were shopping & went all down my shopping bag, that’s when I seen it was water & a few little bits of blended veggies thru the water, I think the enzymes were breaking down the raw meat too quickly, so I had to stop the raw cause he was getting acid reflux & a sore throat but I was shattered & so was Patch, he loved his raw Kangaroo, so I started to cook extra lean beef mince & the same, he was regurgitating the cooked meal as well….. the thing is he doesn’t regurgitate wet tin food if its chunky or soaked kibble put thru a blender, so I started looking for wet tin foods but I couldn’t find a low fat, low fiber wet tin food in the Pet Shops, Wellness has their Core grain free reduced fat but the fiber is 3%, so that will be too high when converted to dry matter, so I tried the Hills & Royal Canine low fat vet diets but they all have boiled rice & boiled rice goes thru Patch (diarrhea) the corn or something in the vet wet diets was making him itch & smell again, so about 2 weeks ago I went to the Supermarket & I started to read all the ingredients, fat & fiber in all the wet tin foods & I bought a 700g tin of Purina Supercoat Homestyle casserole Lamb Veggies & Pasta, the Purina seemed to have the best ingredients fish oil, vitamins & minerals, the fat was 4%, fiber-1%max, I also bought another brand that was duck the smaller foiled wet tin food, it had only 2% fat, we tried the duck first at night his last feed he loved it but poo wasn’t as good as they are now on the Lamb Casserole…. I would need 10-12 small foil tins of the duck a day & it works out too expensive to feed…
I also started him on the Royal Canine Intestinal low fat kibble about 2 weeks before, cause when I went to buy his regular Hypoallergenic, gluten, dairy, sugar & potato free kibble “Salmon & Sardines with brown rice & green veggies” it had a Gold sticker saying “New Improved Omega 3,6, & 9 formula” so I looked & all the ingredients were still the same, so I bought the bag of kibble but the new kibbles were smaller & black & felt real greasy, even when I soaked the kibble in water, I could feel the greasiness & Patch was getting his real bad acid reflux again, so I stopped the Meals For Mutts kibble & I gave the R/C low fat Kibble ago… but he has spewed up the R/C Low Fat kibble a few times that’s then I thought I’ll give the wet tin food a go again, I’m feeding the Purina Lamb Casserole for breakfast, for lunch & dinner the R/C low fat kibble & the Purina Lamb Casserole for his last small dinner & he doing the best poos ever.. so today I’m going to just try feeding the Purina Casserole all day & see how he goes & see if he start to get his yeasty smell again, I take out the beans & wholemeal pasta & throw it away & I’ve been adding a little bit of boiled sweet potatos & some boiled chicken, I have a freezer full of cooked foods for him that he regurgitates when feed by themselves, so I’m going to add them with the Lamb casserole tin food & see how he goes… I really think the kibble is causing all his problems with Helicobacter, S.I.B.O, acid reflux & nausea..

With soluble & insoluble fibers you need to work out how Doc goes, if you have ever tried the Hills Z/d kibble, Hills I/d Gastro or the Hills W/d all these kibbles have more insoluble fiber, the Hills Z/d was making Patch do 1 big cow paddy poo in the morning, his poo was just slop & he started to smell real bad with yeast on the Hills Z/d kibble probably the Corn Starch, so Patch doesn’t do well on insoluble fiber, he does better poos on soluble fiber but soluble fiber sits in the stomach longer, where insoluble fiber passes the stomach into the small bowel, so I don’t know is that a good thing for S.I.B.O probably not…

If you can try & get Doc on wet food or raw is the best, a lean protein, like Rabbit, Chicken, Turkey, Kangaroo these are all low in fat… I never added any bone in the begining, the Naturopath said no bone or organ meat yet cause of his IBD… maybe give him his kibble for dinner & try the wet tin or raw for breakfast but I never mixed the 2 together Raw & kibble or wet tin & kibble…. I thought it will just sit in his stomach & something will happen, it always does with him lol… another thing try 1 new thing at a time so if anything happens you will know what is causing what..

[Pitlove]

Nice updates guys!

C4C- Glad they are liking the new litter box and the WEF! Praying they don’t change WEF either as thats exactly what my little girl is on and she’s very happy with it right now.

JM- Oh no! Sorry to hear about Jake. So thankful we really don’t have skunks around here, cuz my boy would be the first to get hit! However, I’m glad to see you haven’t completely given up on the raw. Keep at it girl!

I guess my update is I’m convinced that Dani can not have beef now. I gave her a sample of Primal Beef & Salmon freeze dried raw for a little treat and she threw up instantly. It definitely has nothing to do with the quality of the food. So that’s it, I’m staying away from anything beef for her.

She is on Whole Earth Farms like C4C’s kitties, so I’m in the same boat with the whole Purina thing. I’m keeping her to just one food now with different proteins since I find her poop is a lot better when she’s on one food.

Also, did anyone see the new Purely FF food they came out with? No by-products etc? I was reading reviews for it and apparently it replaced their FF Appetizers line (which I’m assuming had by-products) and people are pissed lol. They want the old formula back.

[Pitlove]

Wow, really sorry to hear that all that didn’t work out. During the time that I was fighting with my dog for him to eat I tried a lot of ways of preparing his food. First I tried kibble on the bottom of the bowl with some canned on top- that didn’t work. Then I tried using my hands and mixing the kibble and canned together- didn’t work either he hated it. Then I tried feeding the kibble first and his reward for eating the kibble was a little canned- that kinda worked but there were times where he still didn’t eat. So, I thought to myself that maybe he has an issue with the texture that these combinations created so I tried canned on the bottom of the bowl with dry on top- he ate it, no issue at all! I’ve continued to do that for a long time until we stumbled on Nature’s Logic and he was willing to eat it without canned at all! Now he loves food so much that I can use canned food as a topper again and have his dry on the bottom and it saves me money and he eats no issue.

Really glad your husband is willing to let you try homecooked meals though. Thats great. Another thing to look into would be a commercial raw company like Darwin’s, so you don’t have to worry about the food being complete and balanced because it already is. With Darwin’s they do autoshipping, but you can cancel or change the order at any time and they start you off with a starter pack for 14.95$ including the shipping. If you want to go the way of making your own meals, I would highly recommend working with a veterinary nutritionist to come up with meals that would be complete and balanced. It can risk your dogs health if you feed an unbalanced raw/homecooked diet even more so than feeding a low quality kibble.

[Madelon H]

Susan – thanks. I belong to the EPI4DOGS.COM group – they are awesome! Did/does your dog have EPI? I know they say you don’t have to have a low fat diet for EPI anymore – BUT here’s my thinking based on my personal experience. Doc, my GSD, was diagnosed at 3 months old with SIBO but not EPI (pancreas just had not completely atrophied at that time) – they did the cTLI test then and TLI was 16 B12 was 800+ Folate >24 – he had the chronic diarrhea with pale foul smelling cow patties – so he was on metronidazole and put on the Royal Canin Gastro Low Fat Dry Kibble – after 2 1/2 months all was well and I transitioned him to Royal Canin GSD Puppy – he was great – got to 95lbs until March 2015 when he started losing weight – no diarrhea – finally he had lost about 10lbs and despite my telling my vet something was wrong he said he was fine – then he started diarrhea and eating poop – I demanded another cTLI test – positive for EPI and SIBO – TLI < .4; B12 400; Folate >24. He was put on the can RC Gastro – WAY to expensive – once we started enzymes and B12 with Intrinsic Factor I switched him to TOTW Pacific Stream – poops got better but not consistent – then DESPITE being on flea/tick and heartworm meds his entire life he got tapeworms and coccidia (he had coccidia really bad as a pup) – he’s also been very itchy lately. SO my thinking after doing much research is that although they say you don’t need to restrict fat for an EPI dog I’m thinking you may need to restrict fat for SIBO – thoughts? The RC Gastro dry kibble is 5% fat and 3.6% fiber. I’m not opposed to prescription diet food if nothing else will work but I’m $4000 into this disease already and was hoping to find a comparable OTC food that won’t break my bank. I was looking at Natural Balance Limited Ingredient food that has 10% fat – do you think that it’s worth trying? I was also wondering about mixing canned food and kibble food since it appears most can food has less fat than the kibble?
Thanks so much!

[Eileen S]

I religiously read ingredient lists on pet foods and treats. I’ve tried keeping up with home cooking, but really, supplementation is all I’m good for. My most recent ingredient debacle is finding stuff WITHOUT Rosemary! No oil or herbal inclusion as it can set off more seizures in a dog already suffering from seizures! More pet products are going to Rosemary as a preservative. They were using Vitamin E & Tocopherols & I’m not all that thrilled with canola oils as the fat content. But I do digress. It is hard on my vision to squint the print at the stores & see all the ingredients. Sometimes I still miss things, come home in better light only to find the suspect ingredients after buying a product I cannot use. On line, the frequency of not listing ALL ingredients is rampant. Then there is the problem of finding the parent company and the actual manufacturing location of the parent company for the products. Take for instance the Whimzees or Whimz people, Paragon Products. My dogs love the chewies. But every listing of their products has them made in Holland. They are then distributed from Wilmington, DE, the UK, Holland, or other places. Distribution: what exactly does that mean? The ingredients listed on my box look fine, none of the additives I have to currently watch for. Who is Paragon Pet Products? I stopped feeding grains when wheat was the big issue in that decision when China added melamine to make wheat cheaper by the ton. And oh by the way, kill off animals (dogs primarily) and their own people, who ate products with that in it. Then what did we do with the tainted dog food? Rumor has it we gave it to our cattle! One, cattle don’t need meat by products. Two, that puts the melamine into our food chain, doesn’t it? I could really use a filter that would work on with a search engine on food ingredients. I may be wishing for the impossible. Because, as I have experienced, same company has a range of treats for example. Depending on the flavor or consistency (hard versus soft) any will have rosemary as a preservative and several will not , as least not have it listed. So what is a pet parent to do?

[crazy4cats]

Pitlove-
You’re welcome! Yes, I always have it in fridge for two days. I feed them fresh foods or frozen raw on their kibble for the afternoon meal and canned for morning meals. I have kept it just fine for three days when I forget there is already one open in the fridge with no issues. Lol! Shoot, sometimes my human family eats left overs that are in there much longer than that! You’ll get your routine figured out.

[Kona]

Hi all. I have been transitioning my dog (11 years old) to raw food over the past month. I have been feeding raw for breakfast and kibble at dinner, mainly because of the costs. However, she’s doing so well on the raw I’ve decided to suck it up and go completely raw (if it means I have to eat out less then that’s what I have to do). I have her on AllProvide turkey and beef. I have a couple questions and was hoping some of the more experienced raw feeders could help:

1) AllProvide packages in 16oz pouches. According to her “ideal” weight (she’s 75 lbs now but I’d like to see her down to 68-70 lbs) the food chart says she should have 22 oz per day. I’d like to keep her on one pouch per day. Any ideas on how I can supplement the additional 6 oz? I feed raw goat’s milk so there are some calories there. She also gets a few “treats” – cucumbers, sweet potato biscuits, but maybe only 100-150 calories. I bought some grass-fed beef organs – liver, kidney, heart. Should I add some of this to her food (AllProvide already includes these though in the food so I wasn’t sure if that would be too much)? Anything else I can add to reach her 22 oz?

2) She seems to digest it too quickly, which on one hand is good since i know she’s digesting it better than kibble but the problem is by late afternoon she will throw up a little bile (ever since she was a puppy this happens whenever her stomach is empty for too long). I’ve been having to put a little kibble in her kong when i leave for work to prevent this. I’d hate to keep adding kibble to her diet since I’ll be going completely raw. Anything I can add or suggestions?

Thanks!

[Jonathan S]

There are lots of great recipes out there… here’s a great video I found on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o_IOwiCN2I What these people do for their pups is amazing. I don’t have quite that capacity.

Most experts will tell you to feed raw separate from kibble because of the time it takes to digest (kibble burns faster than raw). I found with my dogs when I feed the raw separate from the kibble, they get very sick… one of my pups vomited within two hours of me feeding straight raw. I went back to serving raw at the same time as kibble and they were right as rain… I think the raw was just too rich for them.

I don’t see anything wrong with just feeding ground meat, but remember that there are other nutrients they need that they won’t get there alone. Just look at the ingredients on this website and where dogfoodadvisor.com praises 5 star foods for their good ingredients, and more importantly WHY they praise them. Personally, since getting on this site I’ve been reading reviews and where possible I’ve been including those beneficial ingredients in my mix. Currently my recipe is 2 lbs ground rabbit with bone(expensive!), 2lbs ground chicken or turkey, 1 pound ground lamb, 1.5 pounds chicken hearts/gizzards, 1 pound of reconstituted dehydrated lamb green tripe, 4 raw eggs, 2 cups of blueberries, two apples shredded, three carrots, some small peas, half a mango, mix of greens (I use Green Juju or the local equivalent), hemp seed hearts, pumpkin puree, coconut oil, turmeric. I also play around with some other additives like Firm Up just to see how they perform. Anything not already ground goes through the food processor to break it up for the pups to digest. That recipe gets me approximately 20 x 12oz containers which is enough for 10 days for both my dogs. No, it’s not cheap.

I like feeding half raw to half kibble because the kibble gives me a safety net in case I’m missing some vital piece of nutrition. As I continue to refine my mix, I’m hoping to change to 75% raw to 25% kibble. Going to wait until after their next vet visit to make sure I’m on the right track.

You can do it cheaper than I do. Just find the things your dog likes (apple slices, carrots, blueberries) and throw them in their with the meat… see how he does. The best recommendations for portion size I have seen is 2 – 4% of the dog’s body weight in raw per day if you’re feeding 100% raw. If you’re going to do half and half, cut the amount of kibble you’re feeding in half, then cut the amount of recommended raw in half. For me, that comes out to 1 cup of raw and 1 cup of kibble per day, per dog. I feed them twice a day.

Also, don’t feed raw raw if your dog is a grazer… they need to finish it when you put it out. Don’t want raw meat sitting around!

[losul]

Hi Red. I do think it’s important to use caution with these things. Even if a vet were to give instructions to give antacids/inhibitors to my dog (or even a Doctor to me) on any kind of regular basis, I would be asking questions and investigating, is it acid reflux? what is causing it, how do I get to he root of the problem, and not just treat symptoms, what could/would be the consequences, could it actually be caused by low stomach acid, etc..
———–
Hi Sue, I’m sorry couldn’t respond sooner, my time is limited lately, and having internet troubles on top of that.. I don’t find much about lymphocytic gastritis in dogs, or at least searching those 2 particular words alone. In humans, “Lymphocytic gastritis is a rare gastritis primarily diagnosed by the surgical pathologist. There is a peculiar infiltration of benign lymphocytes into the glands and surface mucosa. It may be associated with celiac disease and Helicobacter infection of the stomach. There are case reports of clearing of the disease by treatment for Helicobacter infection in the stomach.”

http://www.thedoctorsdoctor.com/diseases/stomach_lymphocytic_gastritis.htm

In dogs, most of the hits I came up as canine lymphocytic-plasmacytic gastroenteritis and is still of unknown causes(idiopathic). “Canine lymphocytic-plasmacytic gastroenteritis(LP) is one disease in a group of idiopathic, chronic intestinal diseases collectively termed inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), and is considered to be the most common cause of chronic vomiting and diarrhea in dogs. LP gastroenteritis is characterized by a diffuse infiltration of lymnphocytes and plasma cells into the lamina propria of the stomach and/or the small intestine resulting in diffuse mucosal inflammation. Lymphocytic-plasmacytic is the most prevalent form of IBD.”

https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/2007/Fall/clpg.html

Kind of a side note, and really just a curiosity, I found this study to be of interest, specially the apparent surprising resolution of the disease state, after all the numerous testing and therapies failed, and when the client was finally discouraged by no improvements, stopped all of it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082873/

The “fundic region” would be the upper main portion of the stomach and should generally be much less acidic, especially at the beginninh process of digestion than the the lower portions. I think that would likely be why Patch’s diagnosis comments read that Helicobacter was usually more prominent in the fundic (less acidic) region.

“•The fundus, which is the main upper portion of the stomach. Fundus means
“enlargement” and refers to the rounded enlarged area at the top of the stomach.
Food gets ground, mixed, and held in the fundus. It is in the fundus that enzymatic
digestion takes place, assuming there are live enzymes present with your meals (or
if you are using digestive enzyme supplements). Although stomach acid will be
released into the fundus, IT IS ONLY AT ABOUT 30% CONCENTRATION and will not affect
enzymatic digestion. After about 40-60 minutes in the fundus, the chyme will move
on into the body of the stomach.”

“•The body, which is the large middle section of the stomach. It is a primary area
of digestion, and it is here that hydrochloric acid and pepsin begin to work full
bore, and at levels sufficient to stop most enzymatic digestion.

•The antrum, which is the last part of the stomach before the pylorus, the gate
which prevents food from entering the intestine before its time. Actually, the
major portion of digestion takes place in the antrum as food is held a long time
and parceled out to the duodenum in a very slow, methodical manner. Incidentally,
antrum means cave and pylorus means gatekeeper.”

Your Stomach, Part 1

I think there’s some REALLY good articles/summaries on that site, especially
pertaining to human digestive/gastric systems, but most of it would be relevant to dogs
also. He does deal with alternatives/naturapathic/holistic, and does also sell
supplements, I don’t necessarily agree with all he says, but I think it’s one of
the most comprehensive, complete, and easiest to understand articles/primers on
digestion I’ve seen.here is the article “your stomach, part 3” , which may most
pertain, especially to the significant importance of acid in digestion/health, but
be sure to read all parts 1,2,3. and the overview on digestion also. In fact most of the whole digestion series is a good read.

Your Stomach, Part 3

http://jonbarron.org/article/overview-digestive-system#.Va1zwGd0w5s

Digestive System

I’m not sure where the “water” would be coming from after Patch ate his raw. Not
excessive saliva? Did you add water to the raw food? Adding water would dilute his
acid production. I’m not sure if you are saying that he threw up the raw or just
water? The enzymes i think should be even more important/purposeful on cooked
foods more so than raw. What kind of enzymes are they? Just go very slow on them at first. I would think Patch’s bio-fauna is much out of whack, and needs to be re-established with good bacteria. He may have mineral/vitamin deficiencies also. I was a little surprised that tha naturpath wanted to immediately switch Patch to raw. I would be a little hesitant to go full force raw right away, knowing Patch’s condition, which is why it’s important to be upfront with the
naturopath as much as possible. Has the naturpath seen Patch, or was it just a
consult? Is it Lew Olson?

If it were me, I would take just baby steps, but I’d give the Naturpath’s advice a
fair shot, and keep her/him informed. Not make too many changes all at once, or
expect too much all at once. Build up very slowly on everything, the probiotics,
the enzymes, the cooked or raw foods.Has Patch been weaned off antacids since the
Helicobacter treatment and fairly stable most of the time with what he’s eating
now? Can you try to introduce just a snack size meal of cooked along with
appropriate small portion enzymes or maybe later raw in between those regular
meals, and just very gradually increasing while decreasing the regular? I’m not
familiar with Roo meat, how easy to digest, how much fat, saurated fats, etc. I
think in the U.S. it’s thought that lean chicken is one of the easiest proteins to
digest, along with well cooked white rice. Vets often advise this temporarily for
gastric distress (provided they don’t have a sensitivity to chicken) and it works
for many dogs. I’ve heard you say that Patch and grounded rice don’t get along? I
don’t understand what you mmean by grounded. In the U.S. white rice is milled and
has the husk, bran and germ removed, leaving virtually only the starchy interior,
it’s usually then “enriched” with some vitamins/minerals. Should be fairly easy to
digest by most dogs. Eventually though I would want to get him off all that starch,
and get him on a more balanced diet. Are you giving him any vitamins/minerals at
all?

On another note, there are a couple of U.S. vets now using fecal matter transplants
for dogs, from only verified healthy donor dogs of course. For humans, it’s
catching on a bit more now, even in a few hospitals, with very promising results from persistent or recurrent IBD, SIBO, colitis, that is usually caused by
persistent, pathogenic, and resistant overgrowths/infections.

Sue, Maybe Patch can’t be completely cured, but I believe with the determination
you’ve shown and continue to show, he WILL get better. There’s alot of people
rooting for you and Patch, I know that I’m one of those!

P.S. I might not be able to write back for a while again.

———————
Hi weezerweeks, y/w.

I understand your concerns with Bailey. Best wishes for his best health!

Let us know how the vet visit goes.

[zcRiley]

I’m truly sorry to hear about your loss. There are no words that could ever make it right but the memories will.

I’m sure you already know, canine acid reflux most often happens after your pet has eaten a meal that is very high in fat or eats too much and his/her stomach is very full (gee, sounds like me). Lesser known causes would be a post surgery symptom or hiatal hernia at birth. Could any of these pertain to Bailey? Did your vet perform an esophagoscopy? I apologize if you’ve posted details before and I didn’t read it.

I think focusing on the cause of Bailey’s irritated esophagus/stomach will overshadow the controversial Sorbitol, in which subsequently, the pup doesn’t need. If the symptoms came back after it was administered that week, it wouldn’t matter how much longer you could have given it.

[Susan]

Hi Iosul, if Patch was your dog what would you do? When Patch had Endoscope & biopsies done last December 2014 the Diagnosis said “Moderate to chronic Lymphocytic Gastritis with associated spiral bacteria infection”.. her comment was “Helicobacter are controversial pathogens in dogs & cats being present in asymptomatic animals. Where there is significant pathology in combination with characteristic clinical signs they may be significant. It is more common to see larger numbers of them in the fundic region of the stomach. This could also be a manifestation of MORE EXTENSIVE inflammatory bowel disease..

The live Probiotics the Naturopath wanted him to take make him feel sick they’re gluten &
dairy free & are kept in the fridge I read that some probiotics can make you feel sick, the Naturopath said we need to fix his gut to get his stomach pH back to 1 again but Patch
kept regurgitating the raw diet water would come back up into his mouth & he would swallow & swallow it.. how I know it was water that was coming up is he went to look in my shopping bag to see what a lady had given me & he did his regurgitating all down the side of my bag, it just happens & he hadn’t drank any water only ate his kangaroo & 2 spoons of blended veggies about 3 hours after eating the raw for breakfast, then I thought maybe the enzymes broke the raw down too quick so I tried without the enzymes & Patch felt sick & was eating grass, like the Naturopath said would happen, I asked her what will the enzymes do she said stop any nausea & help stop any bowel rumbling & diarrhea….so I stopped the raw diet enzymes & probiotic & put him back on his kibble & started to cook but he regurgitated the cooked food as well & I never gave enzymes or probiotic, the thing is he doesn’t regurgitate soaked kibble or wet tin foods, then I thought could there be too much protein in the raw & cooked diet & he cant handle all that meat Kangaroo or beef.. where the wet tin food only has 7% (30%) protein.. the kibble he’s eating has about 22% protein.. I don’t know I cant work out how to fix him…. I will photo copy the link you posted… I need to find out how to make his gut healthy again.. I’ve tried low fat greek yogurt he started his licking & licking his mouth & wanted grass..
Lew Olson said give him L-Glutamine & cabbage juice to help with the nausea..

My vet said we may never fix this problem, at least he’s not in the condition he was in when you rescued him, I said, I suppose but I want him healthy & pain free 🙁

[losul]

Weezerweeks, please use much caution about giving a dog human antacids/PPI’s/ acid , especially for any prolonged length of time, beyond occasional usage, without carefully regulated dosage, without guidance from a good vet, and without knowing the actual cause of acid reflux symptoms, if that’s even what it is (acid reflux). As said above, hypochlorhydria can cause the exact same symptoms. I cringe every time I hear of someone self medicating., and it could be creating worse problems, especially in the longer term, if the cause is low stomach acid, or even if the problem does not originate from excessive acid production.. Even, if the underlying cause were to be excessive acid production, if you cut a pill that was designed for a 160lb human in quarters and give to a 10 lb dog, that dosage seems way too much anyway. It’s too easy to intuitively assume these sort of symptoms (reflux or indigestion) stems from excessive stomach acid. It could be excess stomach acid production or refluxing for numerous reasons, but I feel that way too often it may be caused by just the opposite, probably both in dogs as in humans. If antacids are given to a dog in wrong dosage or if the dog really suffers from low stomach acid and antacids are given, it could lead to achlorydria (no stomach acid)…

I spent a great deal of time studying on this over the last year and a half or so, the “acid” reflux, GERD, hypochlorydria, achloridia, hyperchlorydria, digestion problems, etc. and how it relates to overall health/disease. It’s a complicated issue, and I’m absolutely no medical pro at all, but I think I’ve learned some good info on the subject. Good health really begins in the first part of digestion, the stomach, IMO. Most of the info available pertains to humans, but should apply to dogs as well. I’ve been wanting to write about this again for awhile now….It’s been high on my to do list… I really sympathize and feel with the folks and their dogs, the helplessness feeling and distressed feelings such as on forum threads like “dog gulping and swallowing”, and of course with Sue and her dog Patch, and anyone else’s also.

Sue, I think you’re finally probably on the right track now with your thinking, and on the right path with consulting with the Naturopath vet, I hope you continue with that. I hope you are also up front with her/him about Patch’s extensive past antacid usage, also the extensive antibiotics usage. H. Pylori thrives in lower stomach acid and will in fact even help create a less acidic atmosphere for itself via it’s large production of urease, which metabolizes in the stomach to ammonia and neutralizes stomach acid. The H pylori can also damage the mucous and the parietal cells in the stomach, which produce the hydrochloric acid and pepsin in the stomach. It does become necessary to use the antacids along with the antibiotic therapy to eradicate the h pylori. I thought this odd at first, but it turns out, I found that H. Pylori does needs hydrochloric acid in it’s metabolism, so to limit stomach acid during eradication makes sense. And of course antacids become necessary to allow time for ulcers or damaged esophagus, etc. to heal. I think you already said that Patch didn’t have ulcers or damage to his esophagus? Actually H. Pylori is very rare in the stomachs of dogs as I understand it, but other helicobacter species are more common and may be a normal inhabitant of a canine stomach.

I don’t believe there are any good tests on a dog to find out about stomach acid production. There’s a good test for humans, the Heidelburg PH capsule test, minimally invasive, although it’s not a mainstream or well known diagnostic tool, (nope most doctors will just prescribe an antacid) and it can also even measure PH in the small and large intestine.. I called them sometime back and asked if there was any in use for dogs, which I already doubted, I was told no, but that she would bring it up at the next company meeting. Humans can do some limited self testing to a certain extent, which I won’t get into, but can’t really do that with dogs, as they can’t tell exactly what they are feeling at the moment.

I’ve got whole lots of links bookmarked on this subject, when I can get to them and when I get time. For now, there’s a pretty good summary of digestion/disease issues just from the Heidelberg Medical site. I would read ALL the “learn more” topics (on the right side), including hypochlorhydria, allergies, diabetes, gastritis, asthma, dumping syndrome, hyperchlorydria, achlorydria, the medications, PPI’s, H2’s GERD, antibiotics, pyloric insufficiency, etc. Please read them all.

http://phcapsule.com/digestion/gerd-reflux/

[SkeptVet]

So if we are believers in raw diets, we should ignore most vets’ opinions on nutrition since they don’t know anything about it (and yet, somehow, we do know about nutrition even without any formal education, presumably because we’ve read some articles on the internet or some books on the subject). This includes ignoring the vast majority of board-certified veterinary nutritionists, who agree that there is no evidence supporting the claims for raw diets. They don’t know much about nutrition even though it is their specialty.(Oh, right, they are either deceived or lying because they are all pawns/shills for the pet food industry.) Yet, if a vet recommends raw then we should listen to them because obviously they do know about nutrition since they agree with us and so must be both well-informed and completely without bias or outside influences.

What this kind of discussion suggests is that the real issue is not how much vets know about nutrition but simply that we are looking only for sources of information that agree with what we already believe. The same applies to asking a “holistic vet” about vaccines. There is no reason to think such vets are better informed or know more about immunology than any others, but they must be a more reliable source of information because they agree with what you already believe.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but all opinions can be fairly and equally ignored if they don’t come with supporting evidence. And discussions about the evidence are more productive than discussions about opinions because they are less likely to degenerate into personalized and pointless debate. So far, there hasn’t been much discussion in this thread about specifics or evidence, mostly just opinion and “credentials.”

I tried to respond specifically and with evidence concerning the particular statements that “vets don’t know anything about nutrition” and that certain microorganisms in raw meat can’t be harmful to dogs. That shouldn’t be taken to mean anything more or less than what I said on those specific issues. For the record, I don’t know if raw diets have any health benefits compared with cooked fresh diets or commercial diets, and I don’t believe anyone else does either because there is no specific scientific evidence to answer that question. there are lots of theoretical arguments in both directions, and of course the usual persuasive yet utterly unreliable anecdotes, but not real data. I tend to suspect the ultimate answer will be that there is no benefit, but that’s just another opinion until there is real evidence.

[michael s]

Thanks aquariagt… This canine nutrition forum is terrible with respect to searching. I’ll try to find the thread manually and leave a comment there if I have questions.

I happen to be reading Linda Case’s “Dog Food Logic” this week, which is up to date. I know what you mean about skeptvet, but strangely enough he recommends the book. Patricia McConnell also recommends it. The book’s recommendation for LGP is only 300-350 cal/cup, and she does say it’s more about calories and calcium, but I’m finding it difficult (so far) to find so few calories in a puppy food …

… The research continues …

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by michael s. Reason: Spelling

[aquariangt]

Kibble will only get you so far in training, you definitely want some value. Protein isn’t really the issue when it comes to LGP, its kind of old research. If you go to the canine nutrition forums, there is an excellent thread on this very topic, if you read the first few pages of links, Hound Dog Mom has done excellent in getting some really current research in there (she has Bloodhounds). Page 35 or so has a list of acceptable LGP foods, and it’s really more about the calcium

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by aquariangt.

[Pitlove]

Hi Carlos- Congrats on your move! I just moved out of New England to the south myself last year and it has been a nice change. Hope you and your family are enjoying your new home!

To answer your question, since your boy is getting up there in age you are definitely going to want to provide him with a high protein diet if you have not being doing so already. Contemporary research (even Purina’s website says this!) shows that senior dogs have an increased need for protein, unlike what was previously thought.

Variety is the spice of life for humans and dogs alike. I’m sure you would not want to eat the same old food day in day out your whole life and your dog probably wouldn’t want to either! So yes, changing brands or even just proteins can keep your dog healthy and provide him with a nice variety in his diet. Most of us on here have a few brands that we keep in a rotational diet that we change to every bag. I’m limiting my dogs brands for the moment because he has skin problems I need to address, but I’m still trying to find 2-3 foods that have wide ranges of proteins to rotate with. Both cats and dogs also benefit from a moisture rich diet, which kibble lacks.

If your cats were free fed and ate a food high in carbs that could have contributed or even caused the diabetes. I’ve always had overweight cats, however my current cat and my dog are both very healthy weights.However, I know your cats are a moot point.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.

[Jonathan S]

I’m not an expert, but I have been feeding my pups raw for a few months, so take this as you will. I think it will depend on if you’re planning to feed commercial raw, or make your own. The steps I would take (making my own) are…

1. Transition the pup to a quality kibble that you’re comfortable with and watch for any reactions to different protein sources.
2. Talk to your vet. If your vet is pro raw diet you will get good direction from them. If your vet is anti-raw, you will need to either seek another vet if you are committed to this, or stop talking about food to your vet.
3. Do research. There is a TON of good information out there. It can be daunting, and some of it will scare you, but do it anyway. Look on YouTube for Dr. Karen Becker. Lot’s of good info from her.
4. Don’t back down. People will try to tell you you’re doing the wrong thing. Don’t let them frighten you off.
5. Make a plan. In your research be sure to pay attention to the side effects of going raw and of changing food. Sometimes they can scare you and send you off to your vet or make you stop feeding raw, when really it’s just a natural adjustment reaction, or a reaction to the type of protein or amount of fat you’re using. Know what you can expect to see and be ready to react accordingly. Remember, when you stop feeding raw because of a stool problem or the such, it’s like you have to start over again.
6. Experiment. Begin adding raw into your pup’s diet and see how they react. Do they take the food well? Do they seem to like it? Start adding other ingredients and see how they react. Try to add the ingredients one at a time or you will have trouble figuring out which one, if any causes a problem.
7. Once you have a successful recipe, or more than one successful recipe, start replacing the kibble with the raw… go 25% raw to 75% kibble until the pup stabilizes, then go 50% raw to 50% kibble.
8. Watch your pup’s collar size, and keep tabs on their weight. You don’t want them too skinny or too fat. Hopefully you will have a pro-raw vet that can help guide you.

For myself I’m sticking to 50% raw 50% kibble just to make sure I don’t miss something important in their nutrition. My mix is pretty good, but a good quality kibble can be a nice safety net. I’m hoping to get to the point where I can do 75% raw and 25% kibble, but I want to refine my process more before I go there.

I hope this helps!

[ELIZABETH M]

That’s okay InkedMarie, I am talking about the company fresh fetch pet food.talking I have been ordering from them for a long time and and now I can’t re order from them it says its closed for maintenance and the above conversations were all talking about the same company so I thought that maybe somebody knew what was going on.
I’m new to posting on here, so I don’t know if I even posted to the same conversation thread.

[Pitlove]

“Purines are found in high concentration in meat and meat products, especially internal organs such as liver and kidney. In general, plant-based diets are low in purines. Examples of high-purine sources include: sweetbreads, anchovies, sardines, liver, beef kidneys, brains, meat extracts (e.g., Oxo, Bovril), herring, mackerel, scallops, game meats, beer (from the yeast) and gravy.

A moderate amount of purine is also contained in beef, pork, poultry, other fish and seafood, asparagus, cauliflower, spinach, mushrooms, green peas, lentils, dried peas, beans, oatmeal, wheat bran, wheat germ, and hawthorn.

Higher levels of meat and seafood consumption are associated with an increased risk of gout, whereas a higher level of consumption of dairy products is associated with a decreased risk. Moderate intake of purine-rich vegetables or protein is not associated with an increased risk of gout.”

I guess this is why your vet is recommending vegetarian? I wasn’t aware of this about dalmations, but it sounds as though they literally can’t eat anything but plant based proteins.

What food are you feeding now?

[Mana A]

Thanks InkedMarie and Crazy4cats for the quick reply!

I looked through the first 20 or so pages of the thread but there are 87 pages! LOL. Anyway, if you are referring to the list compiled by HoundDogMom, yes I did see it but that list includes only grain free foods and Fromm’s large breed puppy is not grain free.

Would love to hear your input. And If HoundDogMom can help I would live to hear her input as well.

Belinda, I live in Denver too! Also, I want to clear something up. I believe that as long as the calcium:phos ratio is between 1.1:1 and 1.5:1 you should be fine. I don’t think it matters if it’s puppy food or adult food as long as that ratio is appropriate. Do you all agree with that?

Thank you so much for all of the expertise!!

[Alex Z]

Hey guys,

First, thanks in advance for any help.

My wife and I have been struggling to find a good food for our 3 year old lab. He has always been very sensitive to different foods, but in the past two years his allergies (itchy paws, runny eyes, ear infections, anal glands) really seemed to have gotten worse so we’ve tried several different food trials to attempt to find a food that worked for him.

We’ve already tried the following foods with no luck:
Blue Buffalo Basics Turkey & Potato
Merrick Whitefish
Wellness Core Whitefish
Zignature Duck
Wellness Complete Health Whitefish & Sweet Potato

Granted, with a few of these he got significantly worse and we did not finish a full 3-6 month trial, generally quitting after the first bag so I am not opposed to revisiting any food above as we did not know how to properly run a food trial at the time. He is an 85lbs lab, but has maintained a very healthy weight through all of this (he’s very tall).

He has been on the Wellness Complete Health Whitefish & Sweet Potato for about 3-4 months now, supplemented with probiotics and pure pumpkin as his stool was VERY loose.

I just had him in for a checkup at our vet, and they recommended trying out Hill’s Prescription Diet d/d Duck & Potato, or Royal Canin’s Veterinary Vegetarian diet. I am a little hesitant to go with either of these diets, cost set aside. Are there any other food’s you would recommend trying first? Or do you guys think one of the prescription diet is needed?

Again, any help is greatly appreciated!

[Susan]

Hi my boy suffers from acid reflux, two years I’ve been battling with new diets, ant acid meds etc & this is what I have found..
You are better of leaving him on the Pepcid instead of stopping & re starting it again, the burning acid can burn their throat, esophagus & even cause ulcers if he hasn’t already got an ulcer..the Pepcid will relieve his discomfort…
Slipperly Elm Powder is suppose to be good google how to make a slurry paste..Slippery Elm coats the throat, stomach & stops nausea, you can add about 1/4 teaspoon slippery elm powder to their meals…I’ve never tried adding with meals, I was going to try if this new diet doesn’t work.. I’ve ordered the Royal Canine Intestinal low fat kibble as much as I hate vet diets, I’ve run out of kibbles & wet tin foods.. I live Australia & low fat diets are very hard to find the weight loss diets are low in fat & are higher in fiber & you need to avoid high fiber diets I’ve read..
I add about 1/2 teaspoon of the Slippery Elm Powder in a glass & add boiling water & stir till I have a thick paste but not too thick, I put about 3mls in a syringe when it cooled…this seem to help Patch but I hate giving him any meds, herbs, supplements..
I had him on Zantac as the Zantac doesn’t interfere with the bowel like other ant acids do.. now I give liquid Mylanta 3mls in a syringe, I make about 2 syringes up & leave in the fridge, the cool Mylanta soothes the throat & stomach…
I give 3mls Mylanta at 6am 1/2-1 hour before breakfast then if I see Patch unwell or feeling sick thru the day I give another 3ml Mylanta…it taste yuk but he lets me give it to him, so it must make him feel better normally he runs when he has to take tablets & see the syringe with water but with the Mylanta he doesn’t run away..I have found the Mylanta relieves Patches acid instantly..

You need to book your boy in for an Endoscope & Biopsies to see what is happening…blood test will not show if there’s anything wrong with his stomach only his pancreas, has he had the blood test for his Pancreas? All Patches blood test came back good & he had all the symptoms of Pancreatitis again..so Patch had Endoscope & Biopsies last December his stomach looked good the vet said, no ulcers or any scaring from old ulcers, lucky he had the biopsies as well, they found the Helicobacter-Pylori infection, he was given the triple therapy antibiotics & Zantac for 3 weeks but as soon as the course was finished he had his real bad acid reflux again, so vet said keep him on the Zantac twice a day every 12 hours which I did for about 1 month then I stopped his Zantac to see if his acid reflux came back, I changed his diet again to a lower protein.. & was just giving the 1/3 Zantac 150mg tablet every morning 6 am 30mins-1 hour before food & I stopped the night Zantac & he seemed OK & if he did wake thru the night licking lips, I give Mylanta..

I cant find a real low fat wet tin food only the Royal Canine Intestinal Low Fat or the Hills I/d Low Fat GI Restore they have boiled rice & Patch can’t eat boiled rice it gives him diarrhea, he can have grounded rice in kibbles, so I soak Patches kibble & drain all the water real well when the kibble is swollen then put thru a blender & its like wet tin food but has the low fat & low protein 8%-fat & 22%-protein.. I also cook Extra lean beef ground mince made into little rissoles balls, I also buy kangaroo mince for a change & blend a carrot broccoli & celery & add with the mince & bake in the oven & hardly any fat comes out of the extra lean beef or Kangaroo mince..

I would cook then freeze little meals, a low fat meat with blended green veggies, broccoli, celery, beans, kale etc or another wet tin food where the fat is 2% & under….The Wellness Stews are 4%-fat so when converted to dry matter (Kibble) its 16.2% fat, that’s pretty high in fat… & put him back on the Pepcid if it works for him, some of the Wellness Stews have potatoes or sweet potatoes, I was looking for another recipe last night for acid reflux & it said stay away from starchy veggies, Potatoes, Legumes & sweet Potatoes & give Pumkin, Squash, Rutabaga Turnip instead.. here’s the link… http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/acid-reflex-gerd-in-dogs-cats-natural.html
I’ve read Kale is good, it has Chlorophyll what is found in grass, it settles their stomach & digestive upsets.. so I’m going to try adding some blended kale to his rissoles as well..

[Cheryl F]

I just was able to contact a local butcher who supplies USDA meats for human consumption. They are also offering quite a number of items that I already feed my dogs, that I have to pay shipping/packaging for and has greatly increased the costs for me. Being able to buy fresh meat from a local butcher means that not only am I getting very good quality food, but also that I’m not being charged for additional packaging or shipping is a huge bonus. We will now be able to trim our monthly costs for feeding our animals (4 medium sized dogs) from $500./month to about $200-250./month.

For the specialty grinds such as green tripe, trachea and gullet, chicken w/organ meat, beef w/organ meat – i will still purchase from online shops.

By having a local butcher means that I can control how much food i have to store by not needing to order in bulk to offset shipping charges, and having a readily available stock local that I can drive to replenish my supply.

Sharon B – my vet’s office has several vets employed there. When I was on a business trip my husband took our puppy in for routine puppy care exam and the vet tried to scare my husband about ecoli and salmonella with the raw diet. Fact is, humans get those issues a LOT more than dogs can. Their stomachs are stronger than ours and we are more susceptible than them. Employing good hygiene and common sense is a must when handling any meat – whether it be for human or canine consumption. None of my dogs have ever gotten salmonella or ecoli from raw diet and i have ‘collectively’ been feeding this way for about 12 years.

Hope that helps.

Cheryl

[sharon b]

Inked Marie, sorry, I am in Windham NH, and Vincent, and the other Gentleman, can’t see your name, I can’t get a list of prices either. Website still being built, If you could e-mail or forward, I would greatly be appreciated @ [email protected].
Has anyone ever had a dog get really sick, or die from salmonella or e-coli? I read a thread where a man lost his 9 $ 1/2 y/o dog. I have a weak immune system and although I will glove up, I am a little concerned. Also mentioned on a thread for advice on my raw diet, For those of you that do your own grinding, how? Do you have a special grinder? My pup is going to be 150+ pounds, so this is not going to be inexpensive, but I know it’s the best for him. just trying to find the most economical way. What about hormones in store meat, does that concern anyone, or do commercial companies avoid them, or do we not know. Darwin’s did list a grass fed price list. Sorry, so many questions from the newbie.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by sharon b.

[sharon b]

I also am more confused than ever. I have another thread going on starting to feed large breeds raw. Also not only concerned about the pathogen’s that I would think if buying commercially would be at minimal risk, I would think that dogs in general would have the enzymes in their GI systems (that humans do not) to kill these serious bacteria?? But I read one article where a man lost his 9 & 1/2 y/o dog after twice taking him to the vet and the e-coli didn’t come up on routine test’s because they don’t test the GI tract.
Also of concern to me is I myself have a very weak immune system, but want what is best for my dogs, so could wear gloves, but what about where they walk, lick, one is a drooler??? Can’t control all aspects of it just with gloves. Think I will also get this book on my kindle.

[Susan]

Hi Pitlove, your vet is on the right track about the potatoes high starch diet, but she hasn’t explain it properly, I would try a hypoallergenic limited ingredient kibble without potatoes, peas, lentils, sweet potatoes etc cause what she has been eating has caused the yeasty paws, also Malaseb medicated shampoo is excellent for this.. bathed every 5-7 days, I was putting the Malaseb just on Patches paws in a empty bath & leaving it on for 5mins then rinsing off the Malaseb kills the bacteria & really helped..
here’s a link to Karen Helton Rhodes face book group called “Canine Skin Solutions group” https://www.facebook.com/groups/1563654607200747/
here is the link explaining overgrowth Malassezia from food allergies (CARF) read #4, it will explain things more..
http://www.healthyskin4dogs.com/blog/2015/6/21/why-does-my-dog-stink-7-facts-about-dog-odor-you-need-to-know
I found as soon as I put Patch on a raw elimination diet, the red paws, smelly feet, went away…this is the diet Patch was put on you need to scroll down & click on Skin Allergy diet & just pick 1 protein 2-3-veggies & 1-2- fruits, I picked broccoli, celery, carrot & apple all peeled then cut up then put thru a mini processer ..1 cup of meat & 2 spoons of the blended veggie/fruit mix.. I had to add digestive enzyme, probiotic & digestaVite Plus to balance the diet but the Naturopath said he would be Ok without the DigestaVite Plus for 1-2 months while we were doing the elimination raw diet, I wasn’t adding no organ meat yet or no bone cause of his IBD.. with yeast you need to feed green veggies, broccoli, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Celery etc & stay away from the starchy veggies if you decide to feed a raw diet … http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html

[Jarrett D]

Hello,

First of all, I want to thank everyone for their contributions to this forum. I’ve read through a ton of the pages and it’s been very informative.

My wife and I got a Husky/Malamute mix, Nisa, and she is now 11 months old. Currently, she is about 70 pounds, and still growing. We’ve fed her Canidae, Merrick, and Nature’s Variety. She seems to do very well with all dog foods, but I’ve been bred to change my dogs food every 2-3 months. This leads to one of two questions:

When should I stop feeding Nisa Large Breed Puppy food?

After she is no longer in the Large Breed Puppy category, is there another list or forum that discusses Large Breed Adult Nutrition, or can she continue to eat Large Breed Puppy?

Thank you in advance!

Enjoy the holiday and be safe!

[Susan]

Hi Jen, I know what your going thru, for 2 years my boy has the same gulping fits, swollowing & swallowing, he had Endoscope & biopsies done, last December, biopsies found Moderate to chronic Lymphocytic gastritis with associated spiral bacteria infection..(Heliocobacter-Pylori) vet was surprised that his stomach had no ulcers or scaring from old ulcers & the stomach look really good, vet couldn’t get into the small bowel cause his lower pylori spincter was close & the only way to get more answers was to have Patch cut open & have more biopsies on small bowel to see what is happening, I said NO, I cant do that to him cut him open & then do what, we already have tried all the medications…. I thought once he takes all the meds for his Helicobacter & & a diet change (Vet Diet Royal Canin Gluten free Duck & Tapioca) everything will be great… when the meds were finished, he started his has swallowing & swallowing attacks again, more when he eats cooked foods or raw diet, he starts regurgitating & water comes up & then he swollows & swollows the water…I think his esophageal spincter isn’t closing properly.. I have it, its called non ulcer dyspepsia, vet said he has acid reflux & he was put on Losec cause the Zantac or Pepcid wasn’t working no more…
You know how you said he’s on the Hills Z/d so we know its not the food PLEASE PLEASE try another food, my boy didn’t get better on the Hills Z/d…..a few other people I know from a Face Book group said their dogs also didn’t do well on the Hills Z/d vet diets…. at first we thought he was doing better cause Z/d has more insoluble fiber, so it moves thru the stomach quicker, then diets with more soluble fiber but now when I look back it was probably the Ant-Acid meds that stopped his swallowing & swallowing attacks….also low fat diets help…look for a new diet that’s limited ingredient, novel protein & 1 carb “California Natural” has hypoallergenic diets, their Lamb & Rice has just 4 ingredients, http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products & see if you see any improvement & try a different ant acid maybe Zantac if you don’t want to use a Pump Proton Inhibitor (Losec or Somac) I found Somac to be better as it didn’t affect the bowel like Losec did …You keep saying you know its not the food but have you tried any other diets, I would be trying a new diet before trying any medications, I’ve learnt along the way that food seem to work the best & supplements… Lew Olson has a great face book group called K9 Nutrition & she helps & answers all post…..

Finally after Patch not getting better up & down some nights with these swallowing attacks, …I feed a Hypoallergenic gluten dairy sugar FREE Salmon & Sardine kibble that’s is 10% fat that I soak in water till its soft then drain all water very well then put thru a mini processer blender for a few seconds it comes out like wet tin food & what a difference it has made I’m not being woken up thru the night ….its not 100% we still have the odd swallowing attack (acid reflux) sometimes cause I’ve been introducing new foods to the diet, I just give 3 ml liquid Mylanta & the Mylanta seems to help & stops the swallowing & swallowing attacks….
Sometimes you need to do things yourself as vets aren’t real good with nutrition & dog foods they stick with their vet diets & think they’re great, I tried them all, Hills being the worst as it caused bad skin problems & they use chicken even though the chicken is broken down some dogs still pick up that it was once a chicken & have a reaction with the Z/d diet.. join this Face Book group, there’s a few dogs that have these swallowing attacks aswell “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disorder group” Good-Luck

[Christie]

Hi everyone.

I have a 6 year old American Bulldog Mix and a 6 month old Catahoula mix. I’ve been going back and forth trying to find a quality food brand to feed them. Right now they eat Castor & Pollux Organix Adult and Organix Puppy. And they share a can of Castor & Pollux wet food once a day.

Both Petco and Petsmart have essentially rid themselves of the brand. And while I can buy online, I’m essentially looking for a food that I can feed them both.

Both Merrick Grain Free (rated on here at 5 stars) and Whole Earth Farms (rated here at 4 stars) offer dry and wet All Life Stages foods. I know Merrick owns WEF. Is there a big difference in quality between the two? There’s an approximate $15 difference in price between them and I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth it. Or it WEF is a decent brand.

My dogs aren’t happy with the C&P food. Before that they were on Ideal Balance dry (which they also didn’t want to eat). I’ve spent a lot of time transitioning from one brand to the next and I’m hoping that Merrick (or WEF) will be a quality food they will look forward to eating. I know that big brands fill their foods with ingredients dogs love to eat and sometimes it’s harder to get a dog to adapt to a higher grade food.

My mother recently adopted a puppy and the shelter gave her a bag of Purina Smart One Puppy. She gobbles it up and won’t eat anything else. I’ve already schooled her on their questionable ingredients. I fed a small amount to my very picky eating puppy and I was not surprised to find the bowl empty 1 minute later and that she was literally licking it clean. It would be easy to feed her that (my vet recommends Purina Pro Plan and says he feeds his dogs that). But I know what’s in the bag and I’ve already attempted to feed my large dog their Pro Plan Large Breed dry a year ago on the vet’s suggestion, only to find nasty meal worms crawling around inside the storage container I had the food in and my dog’s food bowl (I know this has more to do with packaging/shipping than production, but still. I’ve since read up on the brand and am not impressed.

Merrick seems to be a decent brand of food. And on paper WEF seems just as good. Both are readily available at my local Petco and online. But it Merrick brand worth the extra $15/bag over WEF?

• This topic was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Christie.

[Jen r]

Hi Everyone, I have a 4 and 1/2 year old Boxer (Rex) who started doing this 3 months ago and even after meds would not stop. It would be about a 3 hour panic of licking and swallowing and I took him to the vet and they thought it was just an upset stomach. He was given an injection of Cerenia (the best nausea medicine made for dogs) but he episode was pretty much done by the time we got to the vet. We decided to do an endoscopy right away and found he had pretty severe inflammation of his duodenum which is the first part of the intestines right below the stomach. The GI guy was surprised with the presentation of him gulping with this inflammation being lower down in the GI Tract. He thought there would be severe esophageal disease but it was clear. We also did allergy testing to see if food was causing this. He had some bad milk and some meat allergies so he was put on prescription food called “Z/D” which is hydrolyzed food meaning that it doesn’t need to be broken down much so it is great for allergies. This is very pricey stuff. (thank god we have insurance on this boy!) He was also put on a GI steroid called budesonide to decrease the duodenum inflammation. He went through multiple blood tests checking for pancreatitis which was ruled out. He did ok for about 2 months. He had one time when he started to lick and I immediately gave him a Pepcid and it stopped. Then after the 2 month time he started up with the episodes to the 10th degree. He would panic and they would last longer and longer. I am a pharmacist so I spoke with my vet about what meds to give when these happened and we tried a concoction of things and nothing seemed to help much. They make a cerenia in tablet form so I thought once I had that then life would be great but even that didn’t work. Each time it happens I would give the cerenia, a simethicone (gas x), and Pepcid. In 2 hours it didn’t do anything, (if this was normal nausea these things would definitely work, this is why we know it is not stomach related). We ended up going to an internal medicine specialist and she did ultrasounds and said everything looked normal but also gave me a barium liquid to completely coat his stomach. She told me that she had another boxer in the same boat as us and she thinks it is something called Limbic Seizures. I guess they are a seizure that isn’t your typical thing. There is no loss of consciousness or shaking so no one would ever think of it. It occurs in the Limbic area of the brain which controls emotions and other things. If it happens it causes a spasming of the salavatory glands and this is causing them to lick their lips to swallow it back down. When doing this they suck air in too and if they throw up, it is usually very foamy in appearance. At the time when he got this we found out he had a bad UTI at the time so we waited until the urinary infection was gone thinking that maybe this was kicked up from the infection he was fighting. The specialist wanted to start the seizure meds right away but I wanted to make sure we ruled out other things first since some of the meds for seizures can cause more damage and need to always do follow up lab work for liver damage and other things. She said it was ok to wait but she didn’t think it would get better. The infection has been cleared for 2 weeks now. We also added lansoprazole (prevacid) to his daily meds and three times a day metoclopramide (an pro-motility med to keep his belly going well). We had 9 good days so we were hoping it was working and then had a bad episode but the barium seemed to help after about an hour of giving it. Then he had 4 good days and then yesterday had it start at 12pm to 2:30 again giving the cerenia, simethicone and Pepcid first, waiting an hour and then giving the barium. Barium coats everything so you can’t give meds after as they won’t be absorbed. It stopped at 2:30 but at 4:30 had a 20 minute bout that stopped on its own and then again from 6:45 to 1am. I am exhausted from this and feel so bad for him has he is in such a panic and I feel I can’t help him anymore. So we know it isn’t food things since he is on that diet to rule out any of the food issues. if it were just upset stomach the cerenia would work like a charm but doesn’t at all! So today I am trying to get a hold of the specialist and tell her she was right that we need to start the seizure meds. I should have listened earlier but with the other infection going on I didn’t want to put him on something that could hurt him without knowing. Now that is the next step. I think people don’t ever think Seizures as it doesn’t look like it but with reading all these forums with people having no other answers it seems like this is more common than I thought and people aren’t getting the right diagnosis’s from their vets as the vets don’t even see the 2 correlating. I will keep you posted as time goes on and if the meds cure him…..if so it would be a miracle!!!! Thanks for listening!