My 6 year old dalmatian was just at the vet for bladder stone formation. The vet is now pushing for a prescription food, likely hills u/d or vegetarian, and I want alternatives. Feeding either of these low protein and full of filler foods goes against everything I’ve ever learned about dog dog foods. If you aren’t aware, dalmatians need food low in purines. Help?
- This topic was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Linda G.
“Purines are found in high concentration in meat and meat products, especially internal organs such as liver and kidney. In general, plant-based diets are low in purines. Examples of high-purine sources include: sweetbreads, anchovies, sardines, liver, beef kidneys, brains, meat extracts (e.g., Oxo, Bovril), herring, mackerel, scallops, game meats, beer (from the yeast) and gravy.
A moderate amount of purine is also contained in beef, pork, poultry, other fish and seafood, asparagus, cauliflower, spinach, mushrooms, green peas, lentils, dried peas, beans, oatmeal, wheat bran, wheat germ, and hawthorn.
Higher levels of meat and seafood consumption are associated with an increased risk of gout, whereas a higher level of consumption of dairy products is associated with a decreased risk. Moderate intake of purine-rich vegetables or protein is not associated with an increased risk of gout.”
I guess this is why your vet is recommending vegetarian? I wasn’t aware of this about dalmations, but it sounds as though they literally can’t eat anything but plant based proteins.
What food are you feeding now?
Currently he is on Kirkland’s nature’s domain turkey meal and sweet potato. Previously he was on the salmon version.
Bladder stones are serious and can lead to a like threatening urethra blockage that requires emergency surgery.
I would feed only what your vet recommends, does he have a nutritionist he works with or can refer you to? In case you want to try homemade.
Wysong also has a prescription food http://www.wysong.net/veterinarian/ Ask your vet if it’s an option, if you like the ingredients.
Consider consulting a specialist for more treatment options including diet choices.
In the meantime I would feed the prescription food, cooperate with testing and evaluate the results and go from there.
PS: check out Urate Urolithiasis http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/small_animal/nutrition/client_info_sheets/uroliths.cfm
Also I have found the blogs at this site helpful, in fact I found the above link there http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2014/02/nutrition-resources-for-pet-owners/
“Bladder stones are serious and can lead to a life threatening urethra blockage that requires emergency surgery”.
life threatening, not like threatening (spelling correction)
He does not work with a nutritionist and openly admitted to not knowing much on the subject. He said he based thus decision off old medical journals he had to find. He is not well versed in dalmatian diet so he recommended I do my own research and and speak to more knowledgeable than he is.
I know stones are serious since I just had to rush him to the emergency vet myself. I plan on doing the best I can for him. I was hoping to find a more more natural, premium, or grain free food that will fit the right criteria. Obviously if there is no such thing than I will feed the prescriptionC4DMember
Unfortunately, Dalmations are one breed that has a tendency to form stones. If you feed a fresher diet as opposed to dry kibble, it will help in keeping fluid in the system to flush out the stones. Of course you still have to watch the purines. Most of the dalmation breeders recommend poultry, eggs and cheese as it’s lowest in the purines. Many seem to recommend distilled water also.
Here are a couple of links that might help you out:
I don’t use Flint River Ranch food, and it only gets an average rating on this site, so I’m not sure of the food, but the site has some interesting information:
There are several dalmation sites if you google that offer some good information. Good luck with it!Skye GMember
feed a mostly vegetable based diet w/ some(less than you think) poultry or certain types (only certain types) of fish.C4DMember
Skye G, the only problem with a vegetarian diet is that many of the holistic vets found that it caused muscle waste. It truly must be carefully balanced to provide the correct nutrition for a dog.
On a side not, my husband actually had bladder stones. He did change his diet which included limiting caffeine products and drinking more fluids. He hasn’t had a recurrence in over 20 years. I’m not saying that it cured it, but I really think providing more fresh food to a dog, as opposed to dry kibble, could possibly help. This would increase the overall moisture in a dog’s system, helping to flush out the minerals that are forming.PitloveMember
Definitely need to find a nutritionist to help you. It sounds like the combination of the breed and the stones is going to make this very complicated. You can certainly feed the prescription diet for a short while to at least break the stones up, but I would definitely consult a nutritionist for a long term feeding plan to prevent the stones but keep with low purines.
I spoke with a nutritionist and he recommended canine caviar chicken and pearl millet or blue Ridge raw chicken…thoughts?crazy4catsParticipant
Since the vet has your pup on the Hill’s u/d formula, im assuming they are oxalate stones. Is this correct? If yes, they cannot be dissolved and either need to be surgically removed or flushed out. I’m sure you prefer the second choice! Red is absolutely correct. You need to get as much moisture in his system as possible. Whether it be canned, homemade, raw, or dehydrated food. I would try to avoid kibble as much as possible and make sure to add water to it if you do feed it. Plenty of bathroom breaks are important too.
Sounds like you have your hands full. I wish you luck!
- This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by crazy4cats.
Whatever you decide to feed him, add water (a lot, not a little) 4 small meals per day instead of 2 regular meals.
Frequent bathroom breaks, keep the bladder flushed. That is what has worked for my dog that had emergency surgery 4 years ago.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Anonymous.
We are not sure of the type of stone because the analysis has not come back yet. I have always float his dry food in water to up his water intake and has fresh water at all times. His bladder has been flushed already and the vet is not recommending surgery because the stones are the size of cat litter. I was curious if those are good food suggestions since I’m not very familiar of eitherweezerweeksParticipant
If they are sturvite they can be flushed out but if oxalate they have to surgically removed. They need water,water,water!
I am not familiar with the foods you mentioned, I would go with the prescription food recommended by the veterinarian that is treating your dog. I thought the article below made sense. Hope this helps.
By Beth White, Melody Kennels
We generically recommend for most Dalmatians foods with the protein source of chicken and turkey, with protein levels in the range of 20-24%. No one food is good for all dogs, but with this range it should cover most dogs. Rather than the protein level, the source of the protein is what is important. Chicken and turkey are the lowest in purines.
If a Dalmatian has urinary problems then it usually means that he can’t break down purines in his diet. Beef is highest in purines so we recommend the other protein sources. We also suggest that Dalmatians (again, most dogs) be fed scraps as a healthy addition to their “balanced” diet. It is interesting to note that all foods, from Walmart’s Old Roy to the most expensive foods on the market state “nutritionally complete” or “balanced”. Ever wonder why pet foods are considered balanced but human food isn’t?
Scraps help make the dog’s diet more complete. One of the worst things that has happened to modern pets is modern dog food….but that is another story. When we used to slop the hogs and slop the dogs, we didn’t have hip dysplasia or many of the other more modern structural problems. Our convenient dog foods are an improvement in many ways, but they are not complete or balanced. Scraps are also “tasty” and fun for the dog.
Veterinarians began recommending not feeding human food when the average pet was found to be too fat., Moving from the farm to the city and from work to retirement caused many pets to loose their shape. Feeding too many scraps isn’t good if it adds weight to dog, but there are just too many nutrients that go down the drain or in the trash that are helpful and useful to our pets. Modern dog foods are not always the best source of nutrients (from a source of diseased livestock possibly, etc.). The foods are also shipped long distances and sit on the shelf sometimes for months, are exposed to heat, etc. All this contributes to reduction in the quality and quantity of nutrients within the food fed to our pets.
There is a growing movement of feeding dogs raw diets, with great health results. For more information, search for Bones and Raw Food diet (BARF), or authors Billingshurst or Pitcairn, who have excellent books on the subject, on the web. Another great resource for dog owners is The Whole Dog Journal. Call 1-800-829-9165 for a trial copy.
Some dogs (Dalmatians included) can’t tolerate ethoxyquin. It is best to feed a food without this preservative. Dalmatians (all dogs even) should always be fed with water added to their food. It need not be soaked, but served like milk on a bowl of cereal. Ask yourself why we add milk to a bowl of grain. It is easier to eat that way. But, with a Dalmatian, there is the added benefit of the dog taking in a larger quantity of water than normal (in order to get to his food) and he flushes his kidneys twice a day. This is good for the kidneys.
All dogs should be fed twice a day. Fortunately, most people have gotten away from feeding only once a day. Livestock is fed twice a day and we eat three times. Once a day simply isn’t enough. We don’t recommend free feeding because it isn’t practical if water is added to the food. If not eaten immediately, it becomes soggy and then either spoils or is wasted. Besides, food exposed to the air loses more of its nutritional potency.
When a Dalmatian has urinary stones the old method, prior to modern commercial kidney diets, was to feed rice and vegetables (cooked with oil, bacon grease, salt, herbs of all sorts for flavor, etc.). Cottage cheese can also be added. Commercial kidney foods are fine, but they are usually not very palatable and often expensive.
Rice and vegetables are healthy and any Dalmatian can live on them and look great. Nothing gets fat on rice! When I prepared this diet for a dog that I once kept, I cooked the rice with various types of oils (Olive, safflower, corn, etc.) and threw in whatever herbs and seasonings I had on the shelf. I also added potatoes, green beans, and many other vegetables. The rice concoction was quite tasty and I usually sampled it too! A vitamin/mineral supplement was also added.
Dogs fed rice and vegetables usually hold their weight quite well. The owner, however, must remember to feed more than he would feed commercial dog food. The good thing is that most dogs actually love rice and vegetables, when herbs and spices and oils are added during cooking. Most of the time this method only requires cooking twice a week. Cook large batches and refrigerate what isn’t fed. Warm cold rice concoction and water in the microwave slowly. When traveling, obviously, it would be better to take commercial kidney foods.
For non-chronic stone formers, but dogs with gravel or sediment in need of veterinary treatment, it is always best to follow your veterinarians advice. But, once the urine has attained a normal pH, attempt to start the dog back onto a quality commercial food. Often a dog’s system has been corrected and by feeding low purines and lots of water, he can return to commercial foods. Make sure that the food is WELL WATERED.
Above is an excerpt, for complete article go to the link provided. http://dalmatianrescue.org/info/feeding.htmPamela SMember
I haven’t read everyone elses posts. But my Bernese (1 year old) had crystals and vet suspected probably stones. Ever since I went to vet they were pushing science dietl. I feed top rated foods from this site and from Whole Dog Journal. I also feed a different brand every day so they have variety. (vet absolutely hates that!) So as soon as vet said crystals need to feed special diet ie Royal Cain or Science Diet. I did research, I immediately added a two to one ratio of water to food (two cups water to one cup kibble) and stated giving cranberry vitamin gels. Went in next week, no crystals, no stones. I am not saying that it worked that She is doing great!
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