[scottNY]

To SadieGirlsMom, I am so sorry to hear Sadie is suffering. She is very lucky to have you, though.

I have a 7-month old pit mix rescue and although he doesn’t have those issues, he is a very picky eater and I have been told that is somewhat typical of pits. I regularly add shredded cheese, green bell peppers or carrots to his food just to get him to pay attention to it. It hasn’t mattered what brand or flavors I have given him – he just seems to be picky. I will say, though, he is more likely to eat after a walk then before. [Make sure you don’t feed her right after strenuous exercise, though!]

There are quite a few other pits at the dog park we go to regularly and we always swap stories. A few things we all seem to agree on are that pits do better with a good, grain-free food. [Since at 7-months my puppy is already at 60 lbs, I just switched to one of HoundDogMom’s 5-start large breed recommended foods.] At the first sign of any stomach issues, we also mix in varying amounts of cooked, plain white rice, depending on how severe the issue. If it is really bad, we just use rice, some shredded, boiled, unseasoned chicken breast and some no-sodium chicken broth added for flavor and smell. I also have been giving my puppy a probiotic daily since he was 2-months old. He also gets a good, canine multivitamin. At the advice of others on this forum I intend to add enzymes and likely green food supplements.

Once you get the right food and the probiotic in her, hopefully the problems will begin to fade. I also found the grain-free food helped the stools and the gas tremendously.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Patty on human omega 3 supplements versus pet omega 3 supplements. I just wanted to point out that omega 3 supplements are not something you want to look for a bargain on. Even most human fish oils have been found to be rancid by the time they’re sold. If you splurge on any of your supplements let it be omega 3’s. I’d recommend Carlson brand or Nordic Naturals (I use Carlson).

[scottNY]

Thanks, Patty. A few follow-up questions for you and/or others:

1 – Can you recommend any good, not too expensive Omega-3 products? I know human supplements are often cheaper, but not necessarily okay for a dog.
2 – I just ordered a coconut oil I use on my skin in the winter time. It is edible, so I assume that will be fine to give my puppy a little here and there.
3 – Again, can you recommend any good, not too expensive “green food” products?
4 – Same as above. I would appreciate suggestions.
5 – As I said in my post, I ordered the Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic I read about here and he starts it tomorrow. Can I open it and give it every other day? Is every day too much?

Thanks Patty!

[scottNY]

Hi all and thanks for all the info. I am a little overwhelmed, but hopefully my “summary” question will help others.

I am the proud parent of a 7 month, 60 lb pit mix puppy who came from a rescue. After following this thread, I have just switched his food from TOTW grain-free puppy to the 5-star Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit. Thanks, HDM, for the Recommended Large Breed Puppy Foods spreadsheet. It was a wonderful tool!

Now here is where I am confused. I am trying to not go overboard on supplements [limited income] but want to make sure my puppy grows in to a very happy and healthy dog. Now that he is eating five star food, what else does he need? He already takes the Vetri-Science Laboratories Chicken Canine Plus Supplement for Pets, which he loves. He will also be taking the Vetri-Science Glyco-Flex for joints since when he plays and jumps very rough, he sometimes limps a little for a few hours – better safe than sorry. I want to make sure his joints have what they need as he grows.

Also, since following this thread [or a similar one here] I ordered the Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, which amazon.com will deliver today and he will begin it today. So here are my questions, although comments on what I wrote previously are more than welcome, too!

1. With the Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, does he get one capsule daily? Open and sprinkled on food or closed?

2. How important is coconut oil? If I give it to him, how often and how much per day?

3. My puppy now eats the recommended grain-free Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit, along with occasional pieces of allowed fruits and vegetables twice daily.
A. Does he need an enzyme?
B. I see several people commenting on the Swanson enzyme for humans. I certainly like the cost and I know it is a quality product. Should I get him that, too?
C. If so, again, how much and how often? Is it fine to take out of the capsule if he won’t swallow the capsule?

Thanks in advance HDM and others. I am trying to find that elusive middle ground and I appreciate all your help!

[sfranklin]

I am trying to figure out where to start with the whole homemade food idea. My dogs itch non-stop and I really believe it is from their commercial dog food. Any suggestions on supplements to make sure I have a balanced diet? I saw on Amazon something called Wizpet dog food supplement, I haven’t been able to find anything about it. If anyone could point me in the right direction as to where I can find out more information on supplements that would be wonderful. I am leaning towards the cooked dog food, my dogs now love all raw veggies and fruit (the ones they are allowed to have) so that I don’t have a problem with, I just don’t know if I can do the raw food personally, I may be a little squeamish. Could I do cooked (rare) protein and then raw everything else? I have been reading so much on here I think I am in information overload and am lost as to where to start. Thanks for your time!

[Anonymous]

I am passing along some sites I found quite helpful about dogs with cancer. As a note (to my previous post) I want to add that a dog on chemo is recmd to have supplements… the 1st link has lists of such… which I skipped/not aware of at the time. I am posting this before the links so it is NOT missed…
http://www.themagicbulletfund.org/NeedtoKnow.shtml
http://www.helpyourdogfightcancer.com/GetReady.shtml
http://www.acfoundation.org/faq/cancer-nutrition.php
LilyPearl (lab) was extremely sick with a rare cancer (jejunal ganglioneuroma), had tumors removed and did well for 10mths, now as posted previously having probs. Would say too that if you do the chemo routine, make sure your dog has a cancer that chemo helps… it does not help all. Unfortunately, my specialty vet missed what type of tumor LilyPearl actually had until after rounds of chemo when I opted for a smear… should have done a smear BEFORE starting chemo. Cancer loves carbs… I chose to feed Evo Turkey & Chicken… very low in carbs and great food. I know it has been recalled but my dogs never had probs with it…
Good luck to you and your sweetie…

[TmMura13]

Also keep in mind that I live in Florida and I’m surrounded my national pet store retailers. There are very few small speciality pet store retailers around. Also I would prefer not to order online unless it is supplements.

[casey]

I have a 12 year old boxer/pit mix. I have had her since she was a 6 week old tiny, runty rescue. She has always maintained an deal body weight for her, of 60 lbs. She has never had a sensitive stomach or issues with food and has eaten all kinds of different higher quality brands of kibble and canned. She has no known health concerns (other than several small lipomas on her chest and neck and one very large one on the right side of her neck. It was removed when she was about 8 years old, but since it was down in her shoulder muscle the Dr. was not able to get all of it and it slowly came back over the course of the next year and has since continued to grow slowly. It does not bother her at all and since her first surgery was so invasive her Dr. does not want to remove it again unless it starts causing her problems.) She has definitely slowed down quite a bit in the past year or so and wants to mostly sleep. She will run around in the back yard with our 2 year old doodle every morning and evening and has a blast, but only has about 20 minutes or so in her and is done. Her last vet checkup was great, her blood work was wonderful and she had no signs of arthritis or hip problems. But I have noticed she seems a little less stable on her feet lately and will occasionally fall up or down the deck stairs, but maybe this is just normal for her age ? (like when older people get weaker and more frail) I was wondering if a senior dog food and joint supplements might be better for her? I was not sure about the senior food since she is in no way over weight. Her coat has gotten a bit dull lately too. Just wondering what I can do to help my old girl age gracefully.

[gidget406]

I recently switched my 6 year old bulldog to natural balance (limited ingredient diet) sweet potato and chicken. It’s been a few months and since then his facial fold has gotten infected, his ears are bothering him, he’s constantly licking his feet and I just noticed that his chin is getting irritated and red. He’s also been eating grass every night consistently for the past week and not throwing up. His poops are regular but it seems like he’s drinking much more water. He just seems like a giant itchy ball of infection and I feel so bad for him. I need advice on what dry food has worked for sensitive dogs with allergies. What brands work? What ingredients should I be looking for? Does he need supplements?

[Mom2Cavs]

One of my Cavaliers (in my avatar pic, Laverne) has anal gland problems off and on. I attribute it to allergies with her. I have taken her, all the dogs, off all poultry. She is now eating for kibble Holistic Select grain free. It is a poultry free, fish based kibble with a pretty decent fiber content at around 6% max, I believe. It does have potatoes, but they don’t seem to be a problem with my dogs. I do top with canned foods and have been keeping them poultry free, as well. So far, I’ve been using Wellness for the majority….95% Salmon or Beef or Lamb, Beef Stew, and Simple Salmon or Lamb. This seems to be working. She hasn’t had any issues since I switched to doing this. I was using Zignature kibble, and will probably keep it in the rotation. I just bought some Big Dog Natural dehydrated raw in beef flavor that I plan on trying in the mix. I also add probiotics and enzymes to my dogs’ food. There are lots of them recommended on this site. Currently, I’m using Wholistic Pet Digest all Plus (or something like that lol!). This is all I do, no other supplements atm. Oh…I almost forgot, I do give a biscuit at night before bedtime. I’ve been using Wellness Lamb grain free or Whitefish (not grain free). Any soft treats given, usually during therapy dog visits, are Wellness Pure Rewards beef. As you can see, I like Wellness hahahaha. 🙂 I’m not saying this regimen would work for your dog, but to think about allergies….perhaps do away with chicken and definitely grains. Go from there. I’ve been battling this with Laverne for awhile now and I feel I finally have a handle on it.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 3 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[JLezinsky]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,

We have been wanting to switch our pup to a raw food diet for a while now. We have been doing tons of reading on this forum and research and decided to start with a pre-made raw mix while we figured out how to add more from scratch.

Last weekend at our local pet store the owners of Sirius Raw Dog Food (a small company from Ruby, NY) were out front talking about their product. I was wondering if anyone has heard or more importantly used their food? We decided to give it a try and start or 8 month old Catahoula (40 lbs) on it. We switched her cold turkey without any problem, in fact she went crazy for it. However, the more I read on this form the more excited I get about making good food for her, but at the same time the more overwhelming this starts to seem. Our biggest concern right now is that she is getting the proper nutrition and the correct amounts of food. Sirius told us that she will be good with 2% her body weight, about 1lb a day. And that everything she needs is in the food. We started giving her ½ lb twice a day. It has only been a few days and it is hard to tell if she’s hungry or just wants more because it is so good. Yesterday we increased her feeding to ¾ lb twice a day. Since she is only 8 months should she be giving her more than 2-3%? Sirius told us that she was considered an adolescent. I just want to get your opinion.

Also, should we be using any additional supplements while we stay on the Sirius pre-made mix? Should we be concerned about the calcium while on this?

I figured this was the best place to get answers. I appreciate any help you can give us.

Thanks,
Jon

There is not a lot of information on their site so I attached the nutritional info. that they had emailed to me. They have a few blends, a chicken, a beef, a turkey.

beef blend….Ingredients: Beef, Chicken Bones, Beef Heart, Beef Liver, Sweet Potato, Carrots, Zucchini, Romaine Lettuce, Spinach, Cilantro, Parsley, Ginger Root, Garlic
Guaranteed analysis: crude protein, min 16.00%; crude fat, min 14.00%, crude fiber, max 00.30%; moisture, max 64.00%

http://www.siriusrawdogfood.com

[somebodysme]

OH yes, sounds just exactly like my dog with allergies too. She’s a “lab mix”…AKA no one knows!

The vet did the same thing. What I did was go with a limited ingredient diet. I have her on Nature’s Variety LID Turkey which is doing an adequate job of keeping it under control. Remember that everything he consumes can contribute, not just their dog food. Treats and rawhide etc. even vitamins and supplements. People food…it can all cause problems.

Really the antiboitics help heal it up but then it just will come right back because they are killing the dog’s immune system.

I chose the NV food because it had the least amount of ingredients and not potatoes of any kind. I don’t even want her on sweet potatoes either.

Does he stink like strong cheese? If so that is yeast too so you don’t want a food with too many carbs or it will get worse. You’d also want to give a probiotic.

Just out of curiosity, what are you feeding him now?

[Bill Rogan]

Hello!!! Beagleowner? Hope you feel better than before because your dog is gradually progressed.

You should bring diversification in you dog food menu. You should ensure that the diet you feed meets your dog’s requirements. It’s important that the diet you feed your dog is “complete and balanced,” meaning it meets all of your dog’s nutritional needs. It is not important, however, that every meal would be completed and balanced, unless you feed the same meal every day with little or no variation.

Following are the guidelines for feeding a raw or cooked homemade diet to get a healthy dog. No single type of food, such as chicken, should ever make up more than half the diet.

You should keep the followings in your consideration while cooking your dog food. Proper balanced dog food includes:

Meat and other Animal Products:

Raw meaty bones (optional)
Boneless meat
Fish
Organs
Eggs
Dairy

Fruits and Vegetables:

Starchy vegetables
Leafy green and other non-starchy vegetables
Fruits
Grains

Supplements:

Calcium
Oils
Fish oil
Cod liver oil
Plant Oils

Other Vitamins and Minerals:

Vitamin E
Iodine
Green blends

Hopefully you be benefited. Best of luck of you with your beloved dog.

[theBCnut]

Shawna is having trouble logging on here so I’m passing on her response.

The diet should be geared specifically to the stage of the disease (aka the BUN and Creatinine values). Protein only needs to be restricted in the later stages of the disease. Restricting too early can cause more harm than good. Nutritionist Mary Straus gives values of protein and phosphorus for each of the stages of the disease on her website as well as some canned foods that would be appropriate. She also gives some dehydrated options which would be a good choice, in my opinion, for your pup. http://www.dogaware.com/health…

I wasn’t really impressed with Azodyl. I use a high quality probiotic and a prebiotic called Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber for nitrogen trapping. Works REALLY well for Audrey.

I mentioned some other supplements and foods I use for Audrey in this link if interested 🙂 /… Hope the link works. If not, it’s on the “Off topic” page.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your fur baby!!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Overweight dogs do tend to be more likely to develop lipomas. As Patty stated, there are several theories as to why they form. I believe it’s likely a combination of numerous factors such as diet, weight, genetics, vaccine history and environmental toxins. I’ve heard good things about the use of turmeric (or curcumin), bromelain, inositol and IP-6 for dogs with lipomas. It may also be wise to start using some general immune boosting supplements such as colostrum, probiotics, glutathione, vitamin c, astralagus, medicinal mushrooms, etc. etc.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Wait are you feeding a homemade diet or canned? I wouldn’t give a multi with a balanced food – I’d do something like the Nature’s Logic. For homemade food, if not balancing with whole foods, I’d use a multi.

[theBCnut]

These were the ones that HDM thought would be good.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/new-chapter-tiny-tabs-whole-food-multivitamin-192-tabs

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/twinlab-daily-one-180-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/country-life-daily-total-one-maxi-sorb-60-veg-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/carlson-super-2-daily-180-sgels

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/solgar-formula-vm-75-180-tabs

[theBCnut]

Yes, that’s one of the ones that HDM likes. She also suggested 3 from Swansons that were low calcium and whole food based.

[weezerweeks]

Is nature’s logic all food fortifier the same thing as it’s whole food supplement that HDM was talking about? Any other suggestions patty aught?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom –

The pouched baby foods are fine. I actually use them when I’m short on time. I like Plum Organics, Peter Rabbit Organics, Earth’s Best and Happy Baby. 1 tbs. should be plenty for a small dog – when I give it to my girls I split the pouch between the two of them (they’re 68 – 75 lbs.). Only give the calcium when you’re feeding boneless meat – at the rate of 800 – 1,000 mg. per pound of boneless muscle meat or 1,400 – 1,600 mg. per pound of organ meat. Swanson’s has several wheat grass products available – this is what I use in my green blend: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/starwest-botanicals-wheat-grass-powder-organic-1-lb-pkg . For flax I would suggest adding 1 tbs. per pound of meat, if you can get sprouted that’s better. I order this from Swanson’s: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/navitas-naturals-sprouted-flax-powder-8-oz-pkg . For the Tripett I would suggest mixing in 1 – 2 tbs. with his meal. I’m glad you like Swanson’s – I’m obsessed. I go nuts every time I order from them – I just got a huge box of supplements in for myself! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Nupro isn’t a bad supplement however I wouldn’t discontinue the fish oil. The omega 3’s in Nupro come from flaxseed. Plant-based omega 3’s (with the exception of algae and yeast derived omega 3’s) are in the form of alpha linolenic acid (ALA) which is a short-chain omega 3. In order to be utilized by the body the short-chain omega 3’s need to be converted into long chain omega 3’s – docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). The conversion process from short-chain to long-chain is very inefficient – I’ve read some sources that state the conversion rate is less then 5%. Animal sources of omega 3’s (cage free eggs and fatty fish or fish oil) and omega 3’s derived from algae or yeast are already in the form of DHA and EPA and don’t need to be converted. Nupro also, unfortunately, only contains 1 strain of probiotic – lactobacillus acidophilus. I do the like inclusion of whole foods in Nupro though. Personally, I think you could do better and likely for cheaper. I would suggest picking either a high quality fish oil or feeding tinned sardines, a multi-strain probiotic (Swanson’s sells some very high quality, reasonably priced probiotic supplements check out https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-probiotics-dr-stephen-langers-ultimate-15-strain-probiotic-fos-60-veg-caps or https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-soil-based-organisms-90-caps) and mixing up a “super food” supplement. I purchase ingredients in 1 lb. bags from Swanson’s and mix them myself, I store them in giant jars in the fridge. Doing it this way is so much cheaper per pound than pre-blended supplements and it allows you to customize the ingredients. The current blend I’m using is 1 part spirulina, 1 part kelp, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen. I do switch up ingredients occasionally for variety.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Hound Dog Mom, thats ok I have to wait on his supplements anyways! Thank you for suggesting Swanson’s I love them! Everything is so easy to find and pretty cheap! Plus the shipping to Canada is very reasonable.
Im glad you like my recipe! I will make sure to add in the liver and other organs, I was thinking I would give the raw glandular every other day, or do you think it should be every day? I found a baby food organic, its banana, sweet potato and blueberry puree, then concentrated lemon juice and absorbic acid. No artificial flavours or colours, BPA free package, they have many other fruits, vegetables single and combos. Would this be ok to use? Is the tablespoon enough? And the clacium citrate, I was wondering if I should only give it every 3 out of 4 days since the rmb (on the 5th day)will have bone in it? For the green supplement I really wanted to add in wheatgrass but I didnt find any on swansons, so I went with spirulina instead. For the flax meal how much/when should I give him? Oh and the tripett, how much of that would I give him? I can get the canned easily.
Sorry for all the questions, but I am very excited! I am finally doing it! When I really looked into the balancing it wasn’t too bad, but it did take me awhile! I do like feeding the ziwipeak in the am so I have some reassurance he is getting what he needs!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi pacer1978 –

The product you linked to contains green tea extract which would contain caffeine. In my experience most human green supplements (unfortunately) contain green tea extract. I make my own green supplement – I buy lb. packages of things like spirulina, wheat grass, alfalfa, kelp, chlorella, etc. and mix them. You can use as may or as few ingredients as you want, it’s cheaper than buying pre-mixed supplements as well.

[somebodysme]

bullterriermom, I haven’t had allergy testing done yet, we are just trying elimination and I’m hoping to find a good food. I put her back on NV LID the Turkey one and she is actually doing good on it and the feet are slowly but surely healing all up. Her rash on her back has magically healed up out of the blue. I really can’t help but think it was demodex and just getting healthy and taking supplements and vitamins have healed up up. I really do not know what caused her feet to flare up.

As far as diagnosis, it was just the vet that told me all her rashes and hair loss and scratching was most likely food allergies and he made some suggestions. It was just up to me to research a good food to start with. He wanted to put her on Iams.

I understand is quite pricey to have accurate allergy testing done though.

[pugmomsandy]

If you went back to kibble and still offered some raw for a couple meals that would still be better than no raw. As far a supplements go, kibbles are “complete and balanced” but I still give additional fish oil, super green foods, probiotics.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Unfortunately I had all my bookmarks wiped out but there was someone who posted a link to a study that was done of many top pet probiotic brands and it was found that many didn’t have the number of cfu’s that the package claimed or as many strains as was claimed. I’d be careful with pet products. I personally just give my dogs kefir every day and raw green tripe a few days a week rather than spending money on supplements.

[Shihtzumom20]

switched up the whole food supplement a bit, now its spirulina powder, turmeric powder and alfalfa leaf powder, I ordered all my supplements from swansons and really liked it! I hope they get it shipped ok! I should get it in a couple weeks and then can start feeding raw!

[Shihtzumom20]

Hello Everyone,
So I have decided to take the plunge and make homemade raw for Dawsons pm meal! He will still get ziwipeak in the morning, for a couple reasons one its convenient mornings tend to be pretty busy! And I like their quality of meats so I think it is important Dawson gets it. He is getting the lamb variety so I think I will mostly use chicken for his dinner, but I may switch it up for beef every now and again as a treat.
Here is what my menu looks like, HDM could you take time to check how balanced it is I would greatly appreciate it!
So every am Dawson gets ziwipeak air-dried lamb. 1 ounce
pm- (3 ounces totatl) 90%-95% lean ground chicken, 200mg calcium citrate, ¼ tsp Carlson Cod Liver Oil, ½ capsule vitamin E, ½ tsp of organic wheatgrass powder+ organic kelp powder+ organic turmeric powder (mixed together in equal parts), Raw multiple Glandular supplement
*NOTE* Every 4 days Dawson consumes 1 pound of meat. On the 5th day he will get an rmb, either chicken wing with no skin (want to keep the fat fairly minimal) or beef/pork rib equaling three ounces.
Every pm meal for supplements he will get his (minimal lol) whole food supplement, and the calcium citrate but NOT on rmb night. Only 2x per week he will get 1/2 capsule vit E, and twice every 4 days he will get 1/4 tsp Carlson cod Liver oil.
I wasnt sure if I should include some liver/organ in his meal since he gets the ziwipeak in the morning and it has organs, I was hoping the raw glandular supplement would take care of that? I was also unsure what I should get for the chicken, I dont want a lot of fat since Shih tzu’s are prone to obesity and we are heading into fall/winter lol! I decided to use the cod liver oil for his vitamin d for now till I get used to it, but then I may try to give more variety using keifer, raw eggs etc.
I also want to add canned trippett, and 1/4 tin of sardines in the four day period. I think by using both the cod liver oil and sardines he would meet his omega 3 requirements and not need krill oil. But if thats wrong I will get the krill oil too! I want to take it anyways so I will have it on hand. I cant access the canned tripett website today. My computer wont let me into it, could you tell me how much and when I should I add it in?
Well how did I do? Please let me know if anything is in excess, missing or unnecessary!

[InkedMarie]

Human supplements are much more regulated than animal ones.

[weezerweeks]

I was adding raw fruits and veggies when he was in dry but his PH was8.5 with crystals so I switched to canned and the vet told me not to add to this. His PH is still 8.5 but no crystals.should I try whole food supplements? I want his PH to get lower!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Synthetic supplements (vitamins/minerals) aren’t necessary when feeding a balanced commercial food however things like probiotics, enzymes, essential fatty acids and super foods are always beneficial. I would give coconut oil at the rate of up to 1/2 tsp. per 10 lbs. (you can give less as well). Nature’s Logic makes one of my favorite pre-made whole food supplements, it contains several supper foods (such as kelp and alfalfa) in addition to nutrient-dense fruits and vegetables and probiotics and enzymes. I actually make my own super food supplements, I find it’s cheaper this way. I buy the ingredients I want in large packages from Swanson Vitamins or Starwest Botanicals and combine them. I generally do something like equal parts kelp, spirulina, wheatgrass, alfalfa and bee pollen but I’ll sometimes substitute other ingredients for variety such as chlorella, barley grass, tart cherry, etc. If you use a pre-mixed whole food supplement designed for dogs there will be dosing instructions on the package. For my homemade supplement I usually do around 2 tsp. per dog (my dogs are 68 – 75 lbs.). There’s generally little concern with “overdosing” when feeding whole food supplements – especially if using a variety of ingredients in small doses.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[theBCnut]

Superfoods are things like kelp, alfalfa, berries. They have nutrients that are not required to be added back to dog food and in fact they are utilized on such a small scale that they aren’t sure how much of what is needed. They are also full of antioxidants.

[weezerweeks]

What is a dose of super foods?He has elevated lipase so I’m using the digestive enzyme from mercola that u suggested weeks ago. I also use Nordic natural fish oil everyday.His crystals are gone since I switched to canned an I even add extra water. Water is the key to sturvites.

[theBCnut]

Are you seeing any problems? I would add a dose of superfoods, and fresh fish oils.

[weezerweeks]

I have a 5 yr. old yorkie. He’s on canned merrick dog food. My vet says he doesn’t need anything added to his food but I disagree(wish there was a holistic vet near me)I give him fish oil,digestive enzyme because of high lipase,probiotic. I have been reading about coconut oil. Would he benefit from this? What supplements in ur opinion should I give him and how often. I know his food has some supplements but don’t know if they have enough. My vet says when u add to his food it changes the nutritional value. Advice please. U people know more than my vet about nutrition.

[theBCnut]

I started out using Mercola products and I really like them, but I am having as good results on Swansons, and I really like keeping a little of my money in my pocket. There isn’t anything in enzymes and probiotics that should be a problem for dogs. You do have to be careful with green supplements though. Many of the human ones have green tea or some other caffeine containing ingredient, which is a no no for dogs.

[pacer1978]

It seems that both of you recommended Swanson’s brand for Probiotic and Enzymes. I’m also thinking of trying a green food of some sort. I guess I’m still a little concerned with going to human supplements since I know there are some ingredients out there that are toxic to pets and I don’t know all of them. If I add the three below supplements, these should be helpful, correct? I can finish up the Dasuquin and Nordic Naturals supplements (designed for pets) before trying the below options. What are your thoughts? Also, if they have been on Dasuquin and it seems to agree with them (no joint issues), should I just keep them on that? The only issue is cost…they are fairly expensive to give to my three dogs. Thanks again!!

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-spirulina-il-4-natural-blue-green-algae-6-phycocyanin-500-mg-180-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm-500-400-200-mg-240-tabs

[KatB]

Hi!
So, have been reading a lot about dog foods and various kinds, as well as dietary supplements for my two fur babies. I am looking for some help and suggestions from others who may be experiencing similar issues. So a little background first…..

I have two labs, a male yellow that is 6 going on 7, and a female black who is 4 going on 5. They are pretty healthy I am happy to say! My boy the yellow though, has sensitive skin and has been an itchy boy for most of his life. This past year, he was bitten by something in the back yard that gave him hives and an allergic reaction, treated by benedryl. He has also developed a skin infection on the underside of his chin twice this year. Baby girl the black does not have the skin problems he seems to have, however she got a a bacterial infection on her tummy twice this year. They have been on Kumpi, and have always loved it. Due to the skin issues and infections that they both suffered this year, and also due to the high caloric count that Kumpi has, I decided to try something else.

So we switched to Blue Wilderness, the chicken formula. We are on the 2nd bag now. They love the taste and eat it just fine. After reading about the high protein diet, and taking into consideration the skin issues, I also just started adding probiotics (Probiotic Miracle) and Celavin Omega 3 Oil. Am starting with smaller doses…..today is the 2nd day they have gotten a full 1/4 tsp. of the probiotic, and they also got a 1/4 tsp. of the oil. So far haven’t noticed anything different, but also no ill effects.

What I am noticing in the yard though…..loose and very fragrant (and not in a good way!) stools. I am hoping that the probiotics will start to kick in and help with that, but am wondering if there is an average time frame to start noticing a difference? They also seemed a tad gassy for awhile, that seems to have subsided, but probably still a bit too early to tell. Their stools are also not consistently loose…..some look pretty good, but not as firm as I would like to see. I would also like to find a food that might reduce the amount of stools that I am seeing. I read somewhere recently, may have been here, that a lady had her dog on a food and routine that has resulted in one stool per day…..wow! While I don’t necessarily expect that kind of result, it does seem like they are pooping a lot.

This whole subject of best food(s) to feed is mind boggling to me….so many variables. A dear friend who is very health conscious, both for herself and her dogs, feeds hers Natural Balance (Dick Patten). But since they have now been sold to Del Monte, I have some real concerns that the good reputation they have built for their foods will soon go the way of many foods that have been bought out by large corporations. I am not necessarily ready to give up on Blue Wilderness, but am also reading that perhaps a potato free food may be a better choice. Sweet potato would be ok I think, from what I have read, but “regular” white potatoes can be an allergent.

So looking for some good advice on what to do here…..hang in and see if the probiotics start to kick in and do their job, or keep looking for a food that I can be confident is safe for them, and might help my itchy boy be more comfortable. The probiotic jar is such a small amount for the price…..I am willing to spend on my babies, that’s for sure! But it would be nice to find a food where I could potentially limit the supplements. That may be the ideal world. Would love suggestions on more cost effective probiotics and if I’m on the right track!

Any and all comments and suggestions welcome! I know that there are a lot of you who have done tons of research more than I have, and am hoping to get some shared knowledge that might help.

Thank you in advance and I look forward to hearing your comments! It is very much appreciated.

KatB….dog mom!

[pacer1978]

Also, just out of curiosity..I hear that some vitamins/supplements don’t absorb as they should and aren’t high quality. I purchased the 15 strain brand that was recommended from Swanson’s and then read afterward in a review somewhere that it only had 3 billion of the bacteria versus some other high number that it should be. How can you tell a quality brand from another? What makes Swanson’s recommendable?

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi HDM, was recommended this product on a fb group and was wondering what you thought of it!
http://www.naturalcanine.com/green_power.html
I really like the looks of the see spot live longer dinner mix, I want to feed raw in the pm, am is ziwipeak air dried, and this may be just what I need! I liked urban wolf, but I want to stay away from potatoes, they make Dawsons eyes really watery! And I believe you are one that is OK with grocery store meats? Its all I can get right now, not too much in the ways of organics around here, but it is better than commercially made foods?… I was thinking of doing Nature’s Variety raw again, but have been on the fence…
I also am going to add in turmeric and some krill oil for supplements, he does love sardines, if he ate a can a week could I cut out the krill oil? A can drained is 80 grams. Or switch between krill and sardines if that would be helpful?
Have you ever heard of omega-alpha products, used some for my horse, and saw they had pet products I am mainly interested the probiotics and enzymes:
http://omegaalpha.ca/en/product/114/Probiotic_8_Plus_trade/
If you liked it, I thought it may be an option for Canadians!

[SandyandMila]

beaglemom: I know! On that group they practically scold you for asking questions. It seems a lot if dog parents need help because their dogs are getting ill on raw, well maybe if they’re being instructed to feed it the right way (with organ meat, tripe, veggies/fruits, supplements) they wouldn’t be getting sick. I just started switching to raw a little over a month ago after getting Mila spayed and vaccinated. Her skin and coat really took a hit by the weakening of her immune system. I joined that group in hopes of getting some help, finding suppliers, maybe shared recipes. I officially left that group the other day. People on here are so helpful. They take time out of there busy lives to help educate us on proper nutrition for our dogs, they’re not rude even when others have been rude to them. A lot of us newbies have no clue what to do or where to start they help us to point us in the right direction. Mila’s skin and coat is starting to look a lot better and she’s long, lean, and muscular and I know it’s because of their help. Mila begs for her food now (just had her first raw dressed rabbit this morning) , she never did that before with commercial food, and that was some of the best stuff out there. So I’m very pleased. Which Nature’s Logic do you use? I only feed kibble one meal a week and am trying Annamaet right now and will probably switch to Nature’s Logic when the bag is done.

[beaglemom]

SandyandMila/HDM… haha I just had to comment on this (though I know it was awhile ago). HDM you must never have joined the “rawfeeding” yahoo group! They are “interesting” to say the least… I definitely come here first but here’s the lessons this list wants you to believe: dogs need zero supplements, ever; all dogs need to eat is meat meat meat (and a little bone and a little organs); bones don’t clean teeth, tearing at meat chunks does; necks of any sort have no place in the diet unless attached to the animal; ground meat is evil; veggies and fruits are evil; tripe is useless. LOL. I will join the “thank goodness i found this site” crowd and also to tie in to the topic of this thread, I am expecting my first Hare Today order on Wednesday and can’t wait!!! (And it includes duck necks!!!) 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Patty you’ve got me figured out – lol!

Pacer –

When feeding any cooked food, such as kibble, I recommend supplementing with enzymes. Raw foods naturally contain enzymes however these enzymes are destroyed during the cooking process. For a healthy dog it would be fine to give enzymes at half the recommended dose. Unless there is a certain health issue, I don’t believe dogs fed raw foods need supplemental enzymes.

I believe all dogs should receive probiotics. For a healthy dog, giving a probiotic supplement or feeding a serving or plain yogurt, kefir or raw tripe two or three times a week should be adequate to maintain a healthy and diverse population of microflora in the gut. My dogs get raw green tripe three days per week and a little bit of plain kefir several times per week. For dogs with certain health issues (particularly digestive issues or systemic candidiasis) it may be advisable to give supplemental probiotics daily.

As Patty pointed out, eating grass doesn’t always mean there’s a nutritional issue – it’s actually a fairly normal behavior. You could certainly try adding a green supplement to see if it helps and even if it doesn’t help green supplements are a healthy source of whole food trace nutrients.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Supplements (especially herbal and whole foods supplements) aren’t something students learn about in veterinary technology or veterinary medicine classes. It’s just something I research on my own. It seems most veterinarians would rather prescribe antibiotics or steroids than to try and get to the root of the problem – which more often than not is correlated with poor nutrition. I don’t believe it’s a money thing, I just don’t think most vets know the alternatives. The big corporate food companies and pharmaceutical companies have a lot of power and it extends into the veterinary classroom. Check out Dr. Karen Becker’s website healthypets(dot)mercola(dot)com – I’m a big fan of hers and her website has a lot of great information. I also really like Dr. Goldstein – he has a wonderful book called “The Nature of Animal Healing.”

[pacer1978]

P.S- Are you learning all of this in veterinarian school in regards to the supplements and what supplement/herbs help what issues? I’m wondering why veterinarians don’t suggest these types of supplements for our dogs..especially the cheaper alternative with the human supplements. It seems like all they want to do is give them shots to “clear” things up, only for the allergy/rash to return. Do you think it is because of the money?

[losul]

LOL

I’ve sampled a couple of dog foods, but I definitely have my limits. I could never, ever become a kibble kruncher. I have however tasted most parrot pellets and nuts/seed though before we feed, and by experiences, I’m glad I do so.

On the supplements, human or not, as limited as we use them, and especially with having very loose regulations, to put it lightly, I personally rarely ever use any pill, tablet or capsule, preferring to rely on senses like taste, smell, and sight. Take fish oil for example. If you swallow gel caps of it, how would you know if it might be rancid until you begin to belch vile tastes and odors? And in the case of enteric coated caps you won’t even get any warning at all. It’s also really hard to determine the actual source, process, etc. used.

Anyone that is a regular sunflower seed eater, especially with the hull on, has probably had the opportunity to taste what complete rancidity/spoilage is like. One bad seed chewed can put out such a horrible taste, it can seem like hours to get the taste out, even with thorough rinsing and brushing.

Btw, I forgot. dulse sprinkled into chili just before serving is also especially tasty, IMO, you can still use cheddar cheese as a topping also 🙂 . Not me, but some people eat whole dried dulse like other folks would potato chips.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve heard up to 1 tsp. per 20 lbs., as Patty stated. It is a maximum dose though – you don’t have to give that much and can certainly give less if fat and/or calories are a concern. My girls (one slightly under 70 lbs. and the other slightly over 70 lbs.) get 1 tbs. each per day.

That actually sounds like a well rounded supplement regimen to me – definitely not overboard. If you’re looking to cut costs on the joint supplements I’d highly recommend checking out Swanson’s. There are so many different supplements to choose from all at a reasonable price. For a senior dog with joint issues you’d want to be sure to include something with joint maintenance properties and also anti-inflammatory properties. Glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hyaluronic acid, esterified fatty acids (such as celadrin), green lipped mussel, sea cucumber, shark cartilage and velvet antler all support the maintenance of joints. Turmeric (or curcumin), boswellia, bromelain, tart cherry, yucca, microlactin, omega 3’s, devil’s claw and white willow all have natural anti-inflammatory properties. You can try some combinations until you find what works. Swanson’s does sell a supplement called “Mobility Essentials” which contains glucosamine, MSM, boswellia, bromelain, chondroitin, white willow, curcumin, devil’s claw, quercetin, sea cucumber and yucca – at $10.99 for 180 caps (a 60 lb. dog would need 3 – 4 caps per day and a 40 lb. dog would need 2 – 3 caps per day) it’s a bargain and I know people who have success with it for both human and animal use. I used NOW Foods brand Celadrin + MSM ($16.49 for 120 caps) for my senior before he died.

No, I’m not a vet. I’m currently working towards my bachelor’s in veterinary technology and canine nutrition is my main area of interest. As of now I plan on applying to vet school after I get my vet tech degree – not sure if it will happen or not, I’ll just have to see how everything pans out.

[theBCnut]

If your dogs are on something that they are not reacting to, you should be able to tell very quickly if something you are adding is messing with them. At the first sign of hot skin, itchiness, eye or ear discharge assume it isn’t working and immediately go back to what was working. Note how long it took for you to be able to tell and what signs you saw first. Then after things go back to normal again, if you want to test if it was your imagination or not, you can try again and watch for the same or more reaction to appear again. I can tell my dogs is feeling moist and hot within 6 hours of giving him something that doesn’t agree with him, but my husband can’t tell the difference. Good luck.

[Pugsonraw]

Anyone have any advice on transitioning allergy prone dogs to new supplements? My experience has been that I will try a new whole food supplement, joint product, enzyme or probiotic and within days my dogs are a hot itchy mess. I try to change only one thing at a time to try to test drive a product.

Needless to say, I’ve tried a lot of products. Not sure on how long to wait before deciding if a product is working or adding to their allergies.

Looking for some feedback…..thanks, Dawn

[pacer1978]

Hope you all don’t mind me asking one more question. If I give my dogs Nordic Naturals Omega Fish Oils and Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, do I still need to give them Dasuquin/Cosuquin? Wouldn’t both oils help with joints or am I wrong? I just don’t want to be spending money where I don’t have to if there isn’t more of a benefit or “over-supplement”.

Also, is it OK to give all the dosages in the mornings? I sometimes get home late since I take evening classes and that means my husband has to feed the dogs. I know he won’t keep up on giving them the supplements adequately and giving it to them in the mornings is the only way I can ensure they are getting everything.
Thanks again!