[Sharon Buchanan]

BernerdAd ~
Just wanted to ditto Patty’s recommendation on pumpkin. It isn’t something I care to eat, but I keep a single can in my pantry just in case. When I have to open it up, another can goes on the grocery list.

Lablubber ~
I can’t remember if I read anywhere the age of your Lab. There’s a number of articles that HDM posted at the very beginning of this topic that address the correct percentage of calcium for large breed puppies. The figures vary somewhat, I chose to take the advice of Dr. Baker and keep Mystery’s calcium nearer to .80 percent. (My Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever – healthy adult weight will be about 85 pounds.)

I hadn’t found this forum when I was researching food so I ended up creating my own chart. I looked at calcium percentage as well as ingredients. I wasn’t going to feed junk (by-products, un-named meat meals, synthetic supplements, controversial ingredients – canola oil for one), no matter what the calcium percentage was. But I also wasn’t going to feed what I thought was the best kibble (no preservatives, no grains), if the calcium was higher than I believed it should be. I would have like to have been feeding Mystery Orijen or Acana but their calcium max for LBP is 1.5%. Though they say they try to keep it to the minimum 1%, they’d be okay feeding my dog nearly twice what he should’ve gotten. In the end, I chose Innova LBP kibble.

A simple explanation of the problem with too much calcium is, that a LBP less than six months old does not have the ability to process excess calcium properly. Too much calcium gets deposited on the outside of the bones which then causes bone disease. Again, this is the simple explanation – try reading all the articles HDM posted, some of them are a little more technical, but you’ll learn a lot from them. And don’t expect your vet to be familiar with the LBP study or any of the reports from that study. My vet said he wasn’t sure if he’d read any of them when I first mentioned diet concerns – and tried to make me feel like I couldn’t possibly know what I was talking about.

Back to the age of your Lab. Once a puppy has reached six months of age, he is able to process calcium better but even afterward, calcium still needs to be lower than what a small or medium size puppy can handle. I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP kibble just last month when he was 9 months old. To address your concern regarding transitioning foods, when Mystery’s Innova got down to the last pound, I added a pound of Orjen to it. When that was gone a few days later, it was all Orijen.

As far as expense goes, I considered Innova to be an average priced kibble – compared to Purina, Iams, Science Diet, or any other junk food. Orijen, on the other hand is going to cost more but is worth it – as far as kibble goes. Innova did have a recall last year at the time that I was feeding it to Mystery. I was forced to switch him over to Wellness – the next lowest calcium percentage, but I cringed at every meal because chicken meal is their third ingredient rather than first, and they use Sodium Selenite instead of Selenium Yeast. It looks like Innova has changed their LBP recipe – I don’t know what I’d do now if my only option to feed was kibble to a LBP.

BTW, when Innova had their recall, I had no choice but to switch Mystery to Wellness – without any transition. And my cats have never needed transitioning as I’ve upgraded their food. Obviously, common sense must rule if you see a problem cropping up because of the change.

I have to agree with Patty on Blue. In addition to their minimum calcium percentage being too high, they have three grains in their top five ingredients, they add chicken FLAVOR (why do they need flavoring?), sodium selenite and caramel which is used to make you, the purchaser feel good about the color of their garbage, as if your dog thinks caramel colored food tastes better than beige food. I also don’t like seeing oil of rosemary so high on their ingredient list since we had a Golden that had seizures (if your dog doesn’t have seizures rosemary oil/extract might not be a problem).

In retrospect, I should have started feeding Mystery raw when we first brought him home at 10 weeks instead of waiting until now when he is 10 months old. You will absolutely learn much here at dogfoodadvisor and especially in the forums. I would also suggest, if you have to continue feeding kibble, go to truthaboutpetfood.com and sign up for her free newsletter. She’s also on Facebook if you prefer. I will say though, that I credit Susan Thixton (truthaboutpetfood), with my decision to pursue a raw diet. Of course, it was here at the forums that I received the most encouragement to switch.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[USA]

Hi Molzy

There will always be a risk in feeding a dog raw meaty bones. No one can guarantee you that a bone will never cause harm to your dog. Raw feeders want to feed their dog a similar diet to what wolves eat in the wild, believing it is the most natural and species appropriate.

One thing that I think is often overlooked is that when wolves consume bones they also consume the fur of the animal they are eating. The bone usually comes out the other end of the wolf wrapped in fur. The fur protects the inside of the wolf from being damaged as the bone makes its way through its digestive system.

For the gulping you could try feeding a large piece of frozen meat. The piece should be bigger than your dog’s head. This makes it almost impossible for your dog to just gulp down. Being frozen also makes it difficult to just swallow and could encourage your dog to chew. As long as you are able to take the piece away from your dog before it becomes small enough to swallow or when your dog has eaten enough, a frozen piece of meat larger than your dog’s head is an option.

Another option is raw boneless meat. This method has no danger of your dog being injured from bones. In this method you would have to add a calcium supplement to replace the calcium in the bones.

Reading a book like See Spot Live Longer (more geared to the beginner) or Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet (a little more advanced) both by Steve Brown will help you in preparing nutritionally balanced home prepared raw or cooked meals for your dogs.

I am not a fan of using a metal vice grips or a metal tube to stop your dog from gulping. I am worried that your dog might injure himself by chomping down on them or by trying to swallow the vice grips.

Good Luck with Quincy and LoJack!!!!

[BernerdAd]

Need Advice on solving a loose stool, sometimes Diarrehria problem that is NOT being caused by intestinal infection.

My dog is 20week old Bernese Mountain Dog – About 3 weeks ago he an attach of diarrheria – Up to this time he had been regular like clockwork and normal stools since he was 8wks old. He is being feed Blue Mountain Freedom (Grain Free Chicken ALS)

So I took him to the vet who put him on metronidazole 250mg 2x a day and a probiotic supplement. his stool sample came up negative. For food we switched to rice and boiled chicken breast –. Diarrhea cleared up but he still had loose stools – Vet then prescribed IAMs intestinal pro puppy version PLUS another round of metronidazole and probiotics — For things to get somewhat normal (stools normally shaped but like sausage) I have to fed 2/3 Iams and 1/3 Blue Mt Freedom. Now every time I start moving to 1/2 or 1/3 Iams and 2/3 Blue Mt – he stool gets softer.

Now I am thinking I need to try changing out his dog food and want to switch to Canine Caviar Open Sky — I wrote to them about their reccomendation to immediately transition to their food and not do it gradually — they wrote back saying ”

So I am looking for some help about how to problem solve this situation. I like our vet a lot but since the diarrhea is intermittent and he only has loose stools he feels it will just sort itself out.

[Shasta220]

I know this is a dog forum, but my older girl, Maddy, has been quite thin lately. She has free choice of Chicken Soup dry, and I recently added Natural Balance canned. Now she only eats 1-2tbsp canned and won’t eat any dry. She acts perfectly normal and is checked out healthy

Are there any super high-calorie supplements or canned foods I can give her?

[grover]

I started this thread wondering about other’s experiences with Dino Vite. My dog had routine ear infections at the time. I did tried Dino Vite for several weeks. Never finished the initial container though. Got off the path I guess. No bad reactions to report. I am guessing Grover outgrew his issues. He is just past 3 1/2 yrs now. No ear infections since my initial posting nor pad licking. So, can’t say the supplement helped him any but it certainly didn’t hurt either. Just keeping the course with his grain free diet. Was Taste of the Wild and now it is Earthborn. Mike

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sharon,

Dr. Frick had good general information but she doesn’t have a dog and isn’t doing it so not much in the way of practical advice. She did add a few supplements because one of my pups, Loki, has pulmonary stenosis so she gave some things to help his heart. She is looking over the actual meal plans and going to provide recommendations. She thought it all looked very good (I brought in a few of HDM’s meal plans from early in the Feeding Raw topic. She did say that it would be better to customize the herb and fruit supplements based on what each dog needs. And we discussed ways to do that. I’m going to take all the actual ones I use in and go over them with her next week.

I signed up for the Dogs Naturally conference. Thanks so much for providing that info. I’m looking forward to it and wish it was sooner! Not sure where you live. I placed my first order thru MyPetCarnivore.com. They make deliveries to various areas once a month, plus you can get orders delivered UPS but only when desperate as shipping for that type of delivery is expensive. I also found another place called rawpaws.org. They also run deliveries to several areas but I think both of these are primarily midwest US. Another frequently mentioned on this site is hare-today.com I haven’t looked into their shipping fees etc. I know they do ship fedex and UPS but no idea what it costs. I’ve also been able to find chicken backs and gizzards at Whole Foods; gizzards, liver, turkey necks at a local grocery store.

I will go through more of my info from Dr. Frick once I’ve had some time to digest and after we go over some specific diets etc next week.

[Shasta220]

@Ajchavis, I don’t give her whole birds… We don’t have the resources for it. Instead? We slice the skin/meat off of a chicken leg, then put it in the food processor with some liver/heart, and let her eat the whole bone. Goodness she is a picky cat!!! If I add any supplement powder to the mush, she refuses. If I add too much liver, she refuses. Why did we start raw with her? Ever since we rescued her (5wk old), she refused to eat ANY type of cat food. Canned, bagged, frozen, kibble, you name it – she hates it.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks Sharon, Patty and all research from HDM! It’s so good to have someone near the same point with feeding raw etc. It’s such a challenge! Can’t wait to check out the raw roundup internet conference. Thanks so much for sharing that. I too have used some frozen raw (Primal…and yes it’s VERY expensive) and will continue that when things are crazy here or I’m on vacation etc. but I really want to do the more natural whole raw most of the time.

I actually made the jump last week. Primarily because I found a specialist vet in our area that is holistic and does nutrition counseling for raw etc and figured I couldn’t do much harm in a week. I have an appointment with her tomorrow so I decided to start with some of HDMs raw diets from the beginning of the thread. (Wow!! A LOT of work!) But I’m convinced this vet can provide support because she helped so much with our GSD several years ago. He was such an awesome GSD but somewhere between 7 and 8 years old he started showing signs of DM (degenerative myelopathy). Our traditional vet gave us 6 months max with him but a friend recommended Dr. Ava Frick so we took Baron to see her. Thanks to Dr. Frick and stim therapy, acupuncture and natural supplements we were blessed to have a full 18 QUALITY months with our boy. So I checked with her and found that she does do nutrition counseling etc.

Both pups are going to see her tomorrow so we can discuss raw diets and the best way for them to get the best nutrition possible. All our dogs, other than Baron, died from some form of cancer affecting the digestive organs. Can’t help but feel that diet was the primary factor. So I’m determined to do anything in my power to provide these pups with quality food and life.

Have to say I’ve been overwhelmed a lot during the last week but I’m glad I started ahead of time. So many more questions to ask from a much more ‘real world’ vantage point! The younger pup is barely over 4 months but does pretty good with chicken backs. I will relax with it much more in the next 3 to 4 weeks as she gain her adult teeth. She just worries me with the way she attacks her food! The older male (all of 7 months) is more mellow in many ways and will lay on his rug with a turkey neck or chicken back and take time to enjoy it. But I have to say it’s a lot like watching my kids eat a meal I’ve prepared. Very fulfilling 🙂

BTW, we have all hardwood floors so I have struggled with feeding spots and found that the one that works best for me (us) is a large machine washable rug per dog covered with a large bath sheet (towel). The rug keeps the towel in place and most of the time I can just wash the towels and re-use. The rug beneath only needs an occasional wash.

I will post what I hear from Dr. Frick after the visit tomorrow. And I will also include some of the challenges I’ve hit over the last week along with any suggestions to help address them.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue’s Zoo ~

I am a nanobyte of information away from going raw. I spent two months researching the best kibble to buy for my Golden puppy and now I’ve spent another eight months researching the best way to feed my growing boy and have come to the conclusion that raw is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am also concerned about balancing not only calcium and phosphorus but everything else, protein, veggies, supplements.

Being at a similar point in the raw decision as you (everyone makes it out to be no big deal but it is intimidating nevertheless), the best I can offer is to share a few things I’ve learned along the way and hope it’s helpful.

Having had a Golden that required double-hip surgery before she was two, proper bone growth was a huge concern for me. If you’ve been to the LBP nutrition forum (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-33156), you’ve probably already read some of the suggestions that Hound Dog Mom posted at the beginning of the thread. If you haven’t, do – It would’ve saved me a lot of research time if I’d found the forum ten months ago. Although I waded through the technical jargon in many of the articles, I found the article by Baker most useful and objective. Now that Mystery is 10 months old, I’m allowing more calcium in his diet than Baker’s recommended .8%. I’ve changed his kibble to one with a higher calcium content (from Innova to Orijen), and have started giving him an occasional RMB and raw egg (yeah, puppy steps).

I can’t speak to whether a puppy should eat raw bones until their adult teeth are in except to say that when I asked my breeder about food choices, I was told he starts giving his puppies chicken backs at six months.

As far as balanced nutrition goes, I’ve considered “balanced” frozen raw brands but they really are expensive and there’s much debate as to whether they’re safe. I’ve read so much conflicting, contradictory and even argumentative information that I have to take a few days off research just to clear my head. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get my Mystery off kibble.

That said, I did find an Internet conference (what will they think of next), on feeding raw that is hosted by Dogs Naturally Magazine. You can find more information here: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-roundup/. It isn’t until the end of the month but I’ve already registered and am hopeful to glean that last nanobyte of information so that Mystery will be eating only raw in March.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sully’sMom ~

My Mystery started life with a dandruff problem. At 10 weeks, when we got him, he was flaking all over the place. A trip to the vet to find out if he had bug problems turned up negative but the vet gave me an Omega supplement. A month later the condition was worse. I emailed the breeder and asked if any litter mates were having problems. They weren’t, and he suggested adding Canola oil to Mystery’s food. Nope – we don’t add anything that has been linked to cancer.

Finally, I came across an article in Dogs Naturally Magazine that said coconut oil was good for any number of issues, including skin problems. Further research indicated I should start with 1/4 teaspoon per 10 pounds to Mystery’s food. It was mentioned that adding coconut oil might cause a bit of diarrhea initially so I only added it to his morning food.

A month later and I stopped finding dead skin in and around his crate every morning and the only difference in his stools was that they were consistently normal – neither hard nor too soft. He’s been getting about a tablespoon (since the oil is solid I just eyeball it using a regular spoon), every morning for three months now. He’s still clear and his coat is sooooo soft.

I can’t speak to allergies but from everything I’ve read, it can’t hurt to add coconut oil to Sully’s diet.

The best oil is going to be organic, extra-virgin, cold-pressed. I found mine at Sam’s. Hope it helps!

[Lablubber]

Hi it’s me again..

I have almost completely finished transitioning over from the food my breeder had my pup on to Blue Chicken and Rice Large Breed Puppy Food with nothing but good results. I have taken a little over a month and 4 days to accomplish that in and his stool are solid and no stomach issues…. Right now I am at 80 % transition 80% BLue/20% Purina Puppy Chow Lg. Breed Food. Right now I am also adding a teaspoon of coconut oil, a teaspoon of ground flaxseed and some fish oil, about 1000mg.

I am not using any toppers except at night for his supper meal and that is canned Blue Puupy Food about a 1/5th to 1/4th of a can. And his coat is shiny and he seems to be doing very well on it…

But for me where my problem arises is from me reading and listening to all of you guys….I almost feel like if I am not alternating out a bunch of different foods and using different kinds of toppers and adding numerous supplements to his food, then it makes me feel like I am shortchanging my dog???

And please believe me….. I have not spared any expense on my part that I know of concerning him and I really do not want to do the raw diet because I have had too many people I know who have had their dogs, get serious bacterial infections from it and some have even died from sluffing off their intestinal lining and dying of anemia before they could be saved by IV feeding and a harsh round of antibiotics.

So for me….This particular dog is just way too valuable for me to ever chance that and believe me I am not here to make any enemies by saying that but I just want you know my logic behind what I am doing with him so far. But then I also have to say this as well and something that I have found out in life myself and some wise words of wisdom and that is this…. Just because someone does something different or feels differently about another idea or approach to your particular way of doing things….Doesn’t neccessarily make them wrong….It just makes them different…! There i said it…My sermon for the day….

So anyway I took painstakingly long with my Labrador Retriever pup after listening to all of you guys and even forsaking what my vet said and changed over to a food that I read about and researched over for many hours and also a food that I had access to, to buy very readily, that I didn’t have to worry about ever running out of even where some of the online food stood the chance of having weather related delays in shipping, that it would not be running. And so I chose a food that I have seen proven to do well with my friend’s large breed dogs. And then I made a just a very few additions to the food, just to make me feel better.

I did as all of you said ion here and I cut out the milk replacer that I had always feed my pups for the first six months of their lives and longer is I saw the need to do so and I did thatimmediately. So anyway…He appears to be doing extremely well. Although he had to have several surgeries yesterday because he had a slight hernia that had to be repaired from a overzealous Lab mother licking him over and over all the time and never letting his navel ever truly heal up right. The he also had a dewclaw removed that either regrew or was missed by the breeder’s vet originally and he also had a place on his leg that had been cut while he was young at the breeder’s kennel that did not grow back right and so my vet did a little cosmetic repair there as well while he was out at no charge and she also micro-chipped him as well while he was out due to the fact that she hates to stick such a big needles in pups at that age if she can help it and so she prefers to have them out at the time of insertion and so she did that procedure as well..

So needless to say, my little fellow was exceptionally glad to see me when he I cam to pick him up….. He came home though like the walking wounded with a front leg dewclaw removed, a back leg, scar tissue repair, a hernia repair and a microchip inserted just at his shoulders along with an antibotic shot just above it, wearing an Elizabethen (sp.) collar to boot, so he was not a very happy puppy last night…. And today he is wired to a tee at work with me here today, needless to say.

So now for the advice part part….. Is the extra stuff I add to his food….The tsp. of coconut oil, the fish oil (which will be changed over to Krill oil when it gets here) and a teaspoon of ground flaxseed meal added to his food twice a day… Does all of that sound good to the ones in the know on here to be adding to his food or is that an over-kill???

Then on the medical part or at least the vaccination part of his regime…. He has had 3 series of shots so far… And I plan on having one more done just to be on the safe side, although my vet. says the 3 completes his regime. Plus he still has his Rabies shot coming up as well…. So does that suffice for his puppy shots being complete or is there anything more I need to be checking into???

I have read quite a few vets who did not reccomend them getting coronavirus or leptospirosis shots anymore(As well as my own vet feels the same way). But for me…Jess will be competing in AKC and UKC Hunter Retriever Trials and therefore he will be around a whole lot of other dogs in close proximity, so I just want to make sure that I have all of my bases covered with him as far as shots, intranasal and any other immunizations that he might need.

I am going to look into get his Lyme and Botedella vaccinations as well, but what is you guys thoughts on a working retriever and his vaccination requirements???

So that is about it today and I know i write very long but I figure if I don’t know, I never will without asking… So thank you for your patience…

Lablubber

[Sully’sMom]

I just mistakenly posted this under a potato grain free forum…this is where I intended to go (that’s what I get for rushing while I’m at work!):

Hi all, I’ve been silent for a while. I did pose this question on a forum under Supplements, but thought I’d come back to my reliable group and post it here as well, as there’s always so much invaluable help and not sure if all the same parties participate in the different forums. Thank you for your indulgence:

Sully (1 yr, 7 mo yellow lab) has recently been diagnosed with allergies, most specifically to dust and storage mites (there are others, but these are the biggies). If anyone remembers us, we’ve been dealing with this for awhile, so this is actually a welcome finding – at least now we can proceed with some action! I was reading an article in the Nov 2013 issue of Whole Dog Journal about the wonders of coconut oil, and I thought this might help. Can anyone offer opinions/advice? Recommendations? It seems from the picture accompanying the article that there is no shortage of product options!

Appreciate any help I can get, as I’d like allergy resorts to be a last resort, not a first. Thank you!

[kcarter137]

I am working on adding more veggies. She usually eats whatever I veggies I have with dinner also. She also steals the carrots from my horses. I am working on finding suppliers for various other meat sources. My vet was less then helpful, he referred me to balanceit.com. They want $100 to analyze what your feeding and then make a supplement for you. I am going off the amount that is recommended in Dr Beckers book, Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats.
The Hound and Gatos canned food sounds good but there isn’t a retailer close to me, but I can always order it online.

[gman]

Ordered the special two boxes from the manufacturer and used it sparingly on two small Cavaliers. Just opened the second box and low and behold worm casings flew out when I picked up the scoop. Sealed it back up and called the manufacturer and was told it was over 90 days so no warranty. Told them I fed smaller amount and that was the reason for the time frame. Was told I should have frozen the second box, I told the customer service rep that wasn’t on the box as an instruction ,and she said to freeze it now that would kill the worms and we could use it! Just what a dog owner wants to do feed their dogs a supplement with frozen worms. When asked if that was all they would do she said yes sorry, we can’t help you. Won’t be a customer any longer, so watch out for the worms.

[theBCnut]

That’s the one. I use my horse joint supplements on my dogs too. My horse didn’t like the taste of that one though. Your dogs would use just the littlest pinch of it. I also use Cortaflex, also a horse supplement.

[theBCnut]

Hi dchassett

I don’t know how much help I’ll be, but I’ll try. I believe the leg trembling could be because she is losing muscle mass in her rear legs. I’ve seen that in dogs with spinal arthritis and degenerative disc disease. As they lose muscle, their remaining muscle fatigues faster. I think there is probably not much you can do about it, except to make sure that she gets regular walks and consistant gentle exercise. As far as the joint supplement, Dasuquin is the one vets recommend because it’s made by the makers of Cosequin, and cosequin actually has some research behind them. I have always had the best results with supplements containing MSM and HA. I have many times bought MSM seperately because I wanted to try a supplement that didn’t have it. The one that I have had the absolute best results with was called Joint Armor.

[Dori]

Hi Patty,
I have a 14 year old Maltese. She has two degenerated discs mid spine and has begun to have back legs tremble. Sometimes both at the same time, some times only one at a time. Never both at the same time and it doesn’t happen all the time either. The vet said it’s something called white dog syndrome. I’ve done tons of research on line and it does not appear to me that that’s what she is suffering from. White dog syndrome makes the entire body tremble. Anyway, she doesn’t appear to be in the least bit of pain. Vet gave me a prescription for Rimadyl but that didn’t make any difference in her whatsoever. So, I’m hoping you can give me some guidance. She’s been on Glucosamine Chondritin for a few years (degenerative discs). Is there a particular brand you have tried that seems to have better results. I know all dogs as with humans respond differently to supplements but the vet has her taking Dasaquin with MSM. I’ve got a feeling it’s probably the one that all vets prescribe, kinda like a Hills Diet deal. Also, how much should be be taking daily. She weighs 8 lbs. My girls are all on Primal Pronto diet with fresh veggies and fruits. I’m trying desperately to do everything I can for her and have her live a longer healthier life. She saved my life when my son passed away 7 years ago so I need to do for her what she has done for me. Thank you!

[Kmsharp]

I’ve had shih tzus for 30 years and have tried all diets (we eat organic ourselves). Watch out for yeast if problems with dry skin or itching, may be also related to stomach issues. It looks like you can find lots of foods with high ratings here. We sometimes cook for our dogs – ground turkey, oatmeal, some veggies, olive oil. Make a large batch & freeze some – we do this to use all organic products. My dogs also do fine on a high quality dry food & wet food mix. I mix it up, add a bit of eggs when we eat them. One dog was allergic to beef. With a small dog like a shih tzu it’s easy to give them bits of healthy (fish, meat, sweet potato, cheese) leftovers too as a supplement (though some people never spoil their dogs like this!)

Good luck – these are fabulous, loyal, loving dogs!

[Shasta220]

Alright, thank you. I will just have to experiment with her 🙂 I think her current supplement has MSN, maybe one other thing…but I really can’t remember.

[Queenichi Says COOK]

Sorry I may have missed the thread, are you home cooking your dogs food? Or is he on a commercial diet? Just wondered why you wanted a supplement?

[theBCnut]

You may find with the other ingredients that you can get by with less. My experience is with horses, but MSM made everything more effective and HA did more for my horse than any other supplement.

[Shasta220]

Thanks, Patty. Right now, she’s already on a basic joint supplement (I forgot to mention that)… It actually has 650mg G, maybe 200mg C. in it, but I think she needs some more, so I may keep her on a full tsp daily.

[Shasta220]

We are looking around for ActiFlex 4000 for our dogs right now. It’s the only economical joint supplement that we can find so far… At $30-40 for 32oz (aka 64tbsp or 192tsp), I figured it’s better than $20 for a 15-20 day supply.

Anyway, how many mg of glucosamine should Cassy get? She’s a 12y.o. Labrador/GSD, weighing about 65lb.

Here’s the supplemental values of an ounce (2tbsp) of Actiflex:
Glucosamine Sulfate 8,000 mg.
Chondroitin Sulfate 4,000 mg.
Type II Collagen 3,000 mg.
MSM 3,000 mg.
Ester C (Ascorbic Acid) 1,000 mg.
Yucca 150 mg.
Hyaluronic Acid (HA) 125 mg.

One tsp has about 1,333mg glucosamine, so half as much chondroitin, etc. I think I’ve read somewhere that the suggested dosage for a dog her size would be 1/2tsp (1tsp for first week)… That’d be about 666mg glucosamine. Is that a good amount for her, or could she handle more?

There /is/ glucosamine/chondroitin in her food, but she gets barely 100mg of g and 15-20 of c, so it doesn’t do anything for her.

Thanks for the help! I’m really not looking for suggestions about a better supplement out there, because this is the only thing so far that will work with my wallet, as I’m an unemployed teenager who pays for all of Cassy’s extra supplements. I’m just wondering about proper dosage and what the max amount of glucosamine a senior 65lb pooch can get.

[theBCnut]

Not all fish oils have too much vit A, cod liver oil is known for that. Vit E is used to stablize many fish oils so you should check yours first, especially tubes and pumps.

The dosage for vit E is
<25lbs 50-100IU/day
25-50lbs 100-200IU/day
50-75lbs 200-300IU/day
75-100lbs 300-400IU/day
>100lbs 400IU/day

Older fish oils will have used up the Vit E used to stabilize it, so that’s why using capsules is usually recommended, but either way always make sure your fish oil is fresh.

The other thing to keep in mind is that there are actually 8 different vit Es, most supplements only have the 4 tocopherols. NOW Foods has a Gamma E complex that actually has all 8 Es in it.

[minit]

my 13 yr old, 20 lb jrt gets Swanson’s 500mg krill oil daily in addition to a slew of heart meds & 50mg Quinogel Ubiquinol (CoQ10). I didn’t know long term fish oil supplementation could create a vit A surplus…. how much E should be added to balance this? i used to add E as well, but he seemed to particularly dislike the E capsule no matter how well i hid it…

[minit]

my 20lb, 13 yr old JRT suffers from mitral valve disease & an enlarged heart. He was eating Nature’s Variety Instinct dry until about 6 months ago when he started to lose his appetite. Switched to Instinct canned over the next few months until he stopped eating that as well. Have always hesitated changing his food too rapidly because of diarrhea & resulting anal gland issues, but have just taken the plunge & bought a variety of super premium wet foods in the hope of just keeping him interested. Added Swanson’s Dr.Langer’s 15 strain probiotics to his cocktail of drugs & supplements. He looks good & is gaining back a little weight, but the diarrhea, gas & noisy gut are worse. To put things in perspective, he’s outlived his life expectancy by 2 years since his heart disease was discovered. Every day we have is a gift at this point. He doesn’t seem to be able to keep large meals down (perhaps because his heart is so enlarged it reduces the capacity of his stomach) so I feed him 3 small meals a day. He likes canned pumpkin, but it doesn’t seem to help much w/ the diarrhea & I worry that he’s not getting enough protein & fat if I add too much to his small meals… I think I’m going to have to give up on the variety of canned foods & go back to just one for as long as he’ll eat it to stave off the diarrhea. What’s my best bet for high protein/fat yet not going to make his digestive issues worse?

[kcarter137]

I have a 1 1/2 year old 13 lbs chihuahua mix. She has a long story and I need help so here it is. She has been plagued with various ailments since we acquired her. After a couple months of raw feet and hairless patches on her body I took her to see an allergist/dermatologist. We did a food elimination diet and determined she was severely allergic to chicken, rice, and wheat; somewhat allergic to eggs, dairy, and fish in higher quantities. She has been eating cooked pork, 5-10% cooked liver, 15-20% pureed sweet potatoes with skin on, 15-20% raw beef, and every other day she gets half a sardine or canned salmon. She eats no bone but I supplement with calcium. She takes a glucosamine/chondroitin/msn supplement because she has bad knees. We recently started her on a wild salmon oil because my vet said she needed it also. He also told me that she’s not eating a balanced diet so she also needs a multivitamin. So I ordered one from b-naturals. I don’t know what else I can do for balance her diet out. My other half says we cannot feed her raw or bones. Help, please and thanks in advance!!

[Shasta220]

Thank you for the advice. I’m not sure how I’ll phrase it to him, as I really don’t want to come across as basically calling him a bad/uneducated owner for feeding his dogs that, because he’s one of the best dog owners I know!

I will probably end up just sending him the link to this site, and say how surprised I am about how high (or low) quality some foods are….maybe he’d get curious and check his food out.

I’m definitely going to ignore the canned food for now. Honestly, it’d be incredible if he kept them on Alpo canned, but switched them to a 3-4star dry food. I think one of his biggest issues is the fact that he probably doesn’t really want to make time to go to a feed store for better food (Walmart and grocery stores are all we have around here other than the feed stores that sell dogfood – PetCo/Smart/Costco are 50+mi)

Any extra moral support would be great though, because this guy is…well, he’s more like a second grandfather to me than anything, so there’s a high amount of respect to get through.

I’ve already told him about a great deal on joint supplements, I told him the cost on this is about 1/4 what we were paying on regular supplements. He said he’ll probably do it when they start showing signs of joint problems – they’re 7y.o. Now, so it’s really the perfect time to get em started /before/ the signs come. I just told him I’m getting my 6yr boy on it… Trying to avoid saying, in any form, that I know everything about dog health (because I DEFINITELY don’t)

Thanks again guys, I will keep you posted on any updates, that’s for sure!

[A.Sandy]

Supplements are not recommended if you are already feeding a complete balanced meal because it will cause an unbalance of nutrients instead. and cod liver is actually the oil you have to avoid giving the most because of the high level of vitamin A in will cause liver toxicity ,and finally calcium can cause deficiencies in bones as well. so careful, careful, careful!

-Ana pet nutrition expert/ advisor
@pupfacts
pupcatnutrition.com

[martinkopf]

Hello,
I feed my dogs Darwin’s in the morning and a home cooked meal in the evening (recipes from “Feed your best friend better”). I am wondering if I need to add supplements to the home cooked meal, and if so what do you recommend? I did just order some cod liver oil and “Animal Essentials Natural Seaweed Calcium” will these be all I need along with the variety of home cooked recipes and the Darwin’s RAW?

[Weimcrime]

It kind of just went away on its own. I think the bath might have disturbed flakes on his skin. I am switching his food completely tomorrow, I’ll see if the dandruff continues. I work at a pet boutique, so getting supplements shouldn’t be a problem. Thank you for all your suggestions, guys!

[Cotons mom]

My coton puppies have pink/red stained fur under their eyes. They don’t have eye infections. I have them on grain free fod and use only filtered water. My vet said that there is a product call Angel Eyes but that it has an antibiotic in it so I want to stay away from that. Can anyone suggest anything that could be causing this that I’m doing wrong or suggest a product/wipes that I could use to help with this staining?

Also can I use probiotics for humans as a supplement for my pups? Any suggestions on a good brand?

[theBCnut]

I like it!! They don’t go into detail about how much of this or that is in their diets, but if you are rotating, that wouldn’t bother me at all. I like how they do the even and odd month supplements.

[pugmomsandy]

You can add Abady granular food to her current diet. It has between 700-800 calories per cup. Regarding the current diet of meat, rice and veggies, do you give a calcium supplement and include some fat source like fish oil or a multivitamin of some kind? There are also some kibbles that are higher in calories, around 500 or so per cup. Look for Timberwolf Platinum or other food marketed for performance dogs or puppies. They tend to be higher in calories and fat and protein.

[banchara]

I took in a puppy who I found scared and swollen in my back yard. No one claimed her, so she is part of our pack now. It seemed she had been on the road long enough for her paws to be raw and her whole body was swollen. As the swelling went down, we realized she was not going to be as big as we originally thought, but she is probably just under a year and weighs around 40 lbs.

She actually looks VERY much like Pattyvaughn’s profile pic…(btw, Pattyvaughn, are you originally from KC, KS)

She is quite skinny and despite being fed 24oz homemade (50% protein, 25% rice, 25% veggies) food per day. Her hip bones are still prominant, her spine is easily felt, and the back half her ribs are visible (well, you know what I mean). I have no idea what her target size will be, so I’m not sure if I need to up her food even more, or possibly supplement with kibble.

The other piece of the puzzle is that she nearly died from rodenticide poisoning in November and had to be kept completely quiet for about a month. I’m wondering if some of her skinny is due to lack of muscle tone from that period. She loves to run and bound, her fur is nice and shiny. The vet says she is healthy, otherwise.

Any guidance is appreciated!

[USA]

Hi GizmoMom,

The reason fish have Omega 3’s is because they eat algae that is high in Omega 3’s. There are now Omega 3 supplements made from Algae. Search online for omega 3 algae oil and go from there. It is the same forms of Omega 3 (EPA and DHA) as the different fish oils so it will be well absorbed and it is not from fish!

Coconut oil is good for it’s antifungal qualities and dogs usually like the taste of it. I think that EPA and DHA Omega 3’s are the best supplement for a dogs skin, coat and brain as well as having anti-inflammatory and anti-depressant effects. Coconut oi is a great supplement for a dog with yeasty fungally skin.

Omega 6’s like Olive and other Vegetable oils are usually plentiful in a dog’s diet, so as long as you rotate Meats, Fish, Poultry, Veggies and Fruits you should be fine in the Omega 6 category.

Good Luck!!!

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz Lover,

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake around 8-10 months old. To play is really safe you could wait until 1 year.

Read this for an understanding of what “all life stages” means: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

Essentially you can feed an “all life stages” food to a puppy because it is approved for growth and reproduction as well as adult maintenance. A lot of the labels on foods (ie large breed puppy, large breed adult, senior, etc) is just marketing. If pet food companies really knew what they were doing in formulating dog foods, there would be a lot more “large breed puppy” foods on the list. If I were you, I would not get caught up on the label. You don’t have to feed a food specifically for a large breed puppy or large breed adult. You need to make sure it is approved by AAFCO for growth and reproduction (aka puppy food) or all life stages.

I had to google FCP surgery. This was done to correct elbow dysplasia? As far as supplements go, I have heard the same. You don’t want to give supplements until they are done growing. I think you’d be safe starting them at 1 year. Does your vet have an opinion on this? I think you are ok with giving the salmon oil as long as you account for the calories that it adds. How much you feed will depend on the body condition of your dog. It is hard to say how much his metabolism will slow down. I would just watch his form and if he looks like he’s getting chunky, cut back on the food. If he starts to look too skinny, increase his food. Refer to the body condition chart in the Dr. Becker article I posted previously. I keep my dog lean because he is older and has arthritis. It is much easier on the joints.

Bottom line- if I were you I would continue to feed a food on HDM’s list and hold off on additional supplements until 1 year or per your vet’s instructions. I hope that is helpful to you.

[Jazz Lover]

Hi RDM

Still a few Qs. It’s not clear if I should stay on a lg breed puppy (9mo male lab – who had recent surgery for FCP)? Or move to All Stages (& how can all stages be ok for lg breed? Confusing!) I’m not seeing any lg breed adult food on the list.
Unfortunately Jazz was neutered at time of surgery. How much less do I give? It’s my understanding you need to give less if dog was neutered do to slower metabolism from neutering.
I’ve heard conflicting info on supplements. Jazz is now taking Grizzly Salmon oil w/ meals. Concerning other supps, I’ve read you want to wait until they have fully developed before giving other supps b/c you don’t want to disturb what is developing naturally.
BTW, I love all info I’ve seen from Dr Becker.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Ferrari4204,

I’m not too far from you in NW Indiana. I feed a variety of foods including commercial raw and I also came across a local product that I’ve found very interesting and gaining some popularity locally. I haven’t tried it myself yet and need to do a little bit more research into the product. Problem is, they don’t have a website and basically do all of their business locally, through word of mouth. When I was wanting more information about their products, I called the business and left a voice mail. The owner promptly returned my call, but unfortunately I missed his and haven’t made an effort to connect with him since. I was impressed how quickly he called me back and his responsiveness to my call.

My local product is called J.J. Fuds. I remember when I was a kid and JJ Fuds was a local butcher shop with a master sausage maker at the helm. Who knew there was such a thing as a master sausage maker, but there is. From what I understand, the family has over 100 years of sausage makers and their fine German craftsmanship has been passed down for generations. Kinda cool ~ artisan products are special.

My local operation is still owned by the same family. They prepare their raw dog foods in a USDA inspected facility and all of their raw meat and bones are USDA inspected product as well.

So, small local business, no advertising and no shipping. I have found a couple of websites that’ll ship the product, but am guessing they must also be local and their prices are higher plus the added shipping cost makes it pretty expensive. The company seems to be fine with their local niche market.

It’s very affordable and half the price of other commercial raw diets. The manufacturer delivers the product himself to some local pet food stores and groomers straight from their processing facility.

So, I haven’t tried my local product yet; but, now that you reminded me, I’m putting it back on my to-do list. : )

Here’s a sample ingredient list from JJ Fuds Tender Beef Chunks Dinner:

Ingredients:
Beef, Beef organ meat (Heart, Liver, Kidney, Tripe), Fresh Whole Eggs, carrots, Celery, Sweet potato, Flax Seed, Cranberries, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Suppliment, Vitamin B-12 Suppliment, Niacin, Iron Sulfate, Vitamin A, Acetate, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Monoitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Sodium Selenite

[losul]

I don’t use many supplements at all, not on any kind of regular basis anyway. The vetri-science probiotic chew was one that I have used though. Still have about 1/4 a bag or so after over a year.

One reason i chose that brand at the time was because they have or had the National Animal Supplement Council seal and logo on them. But i don’t know, maybe that was a just a false sense of security.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Caroline,

I actually recently purchased this same product myself. I liked the idea of a whole food supplement and wanted one that included Taurine. I got it for a great price on Chewy.com. it’s a powder form and easily mixes into dry food, to which I add water. I can’t speak to the results yet because I just started using it this past weekend, but I have confidence in Nature’s Logic.

[enny]

I am the original poster and as to any update there is none so far. As you can imagine ConsumerLab.com has to test hundreds of products from different manufacturers and pet products are not their priority. They do update but it usually takes quite a long time. One of the products that passed muster was the Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM combo from Nutramax Labs for joint relief for horses and canines. Pet Tabs Original Formula Vitamin-Mineral Supplement for dogs dist. by Virbac AH Inc. was the only multi. that passed. That’s about all I know at this time.

[Jazz Lover]

I’m confused about which (age group) food to give our 9mo male black lab… should we continue feeding large breed puppy, or switch to an All Stages or simply and adult dog food now?

Jazz is recovering from surgery for elbow dysplasia w FCP. It sounds like there joints fully develop by age 2, but my vet said an adult food is good at age 6-10 mos.

Additionally, has anyone had good results from any specific supplements for similar concerns and age lab and are further in recovery?

Thank you

[theBCnut]

First of all, did you read the first few pages of this thread? Did you check out the links? The idea that protein causes problems was bad science and ignorance, so don’t worry about that.
Here is Hound Dog Mom’s latest list of foods that have the appropriate amount of calcium for large breed dogs.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
You have to sign up to view it, but it’s very worthwhile. Take the list with you to the pet boutiques around where you live and see what is available. DO NOT marry any one food, rotate foods. Do a search on the review side on diet rotation to learn more.

Keep your puppy thin, not just not fat, but thin. Less weight is less stress on joints.

Find a joint supplement with hyaluronic acid in it. That’s what the body needs to make repairs to joints. And consider feeding him a raw turkey neck once or twice a week, they naturally have good stuff for joints in them, since them have a lot of cartilage in them.

If you have bare floors, consider using throw or area rugs at least until he is grown. They think slip and falls can be a big factor in joint damage for puppies. And finally, no stairs for as long as possible. When he has to do stairs, make sure he does them at a walk.

[Bracha]

Hello,
I am new to this site (it was recommended by our pet shop owner). We live in Australia and thus spend a bit of time outdoors; bush and beach – lucky us. I have a very healthy German Shepard (as endorsed by my vet and every man that sees her walking the street – she has a large fan club, small town). She is de-sexed, large frame, straight back, 41Kg, 4 year 6 mnth. She has been with me since a puppy, 9 weeks. I initially fed her two different brands, but from about 2 months old she has been fed Dry Holistic Large Breed puppy than transitioned over to Holistic adult large breed. She thrives on it. Currently we are trying the Holistic Grain free large breed food and so far (2 weeks) all is well; her stools are a great shape, smell good and regular. Personally this is the only way to tell if your dog is responding to their feed in a positive way, check the pool daily!
I appreciate everyone has a budget, but am in total agreement with other members 4+ stars is the way to go.
I am currently researching the Raw diet option and will consider this diet. But the dry food is convenient. It is supplemented with 100 grams, human grade beef mince. I would be interested to hear members view on this combination of beef with dry turkey based feed; do they think it is self defeating? Enjoy reading the comments from like minded dedicated dog owners. Thanks

[Shasta220]

I was following the “Joint Health” thread, and some people started talking about Actiflex.

Right now, I’m paying about $20/month for our senior lab’s joint supplements (I don’t remember what the brand name is, I think it’s just a store-brand…), and we could easily spend more and give her extra, as her hips need the help. She also has GSD in her, so that sure didn’t seem to help her joints!

Anyway, I found online that Actiflex is 30-40$ for 32oz…(did the calculations, figured it would last our lab 6-8mo) I REALLY want to try it out, as 5$ monthly is a lot nicer sounding than $20+ monthly. But I don’t want to try it and find out it doesn’t work, then be stuck with it.

How well does it seem to work for you guys?

[FreeholdHound]

DaneMom: your mix sounds great & I’m saving it. Harry doesn’t show any need for joint supplements at the moment so I can’t say if it’s working or not – it’s just not coming out the other end so to speak. As a retired racing Greyhound who’ll be 5 in the Spring I thought I’d start giving him a little xtra help.

[RescueDaneMom]

GizmoMom,

I have been using THK for 5 years now. My dog has larger stools when eating THK and raw then when eating 100% raw. I believe it’s because of the vegetables and high fiber. I also think this is good for some dogs. The feeding guidelines for Preference say you can add a fat supplement such as salmon, flax, or coconut oil which will add calories. You could also contact THK. I’ve heard their customer service is really good.

[RescueDaneMom]

Freehold, the liquid supplements sit ok with Max but they don’t work. I also tried Corta-flx (the powder) which was recommended by Patty. It worked ok for Max but not any better than the glucosamine/MSM/chondroitin mix I make. I buy the 1500mg glucosamine hcl tablets, 1500mg MSM tablets, and 600mg chondroitin sulfate capsules from Swanson’s. He gets 3 of each per day for a total of 4500mg glucosamine, 4500mg MSM, and 1800mg chondroitin. So far this has worked the best for him (keep in mind he is 150lbs and almost 8 years old). I remember looking at the mobility essentials but it wouldn’t work for Max. Max only responds to glucosamine hcl not glucosamine sulfate. I’m glad it seems to be working for Harry!

Shasta220, I hope Actiflex works for your lab. It didn’t work for my Dane but all dogs respond differently. Good luck!

[FreeholdHound]

I gave up on the liquid supplements – was definately not sitting well with Harry. While placing order with Swanson I added a bottle of the Mobility Essentials into my cart, and it seems to be agreeing with him. I open 1 over his food 2x’s a day & he doesn’t notice. I think I should be giving him a larger dose at 80 lbs – probably 3 caps/day, but wanted to ease into it.