[Bobby dog]

Hi Jakes mom:
Then you will really appreciate the download if you, like me, are not looking to dive into a full or partial raw diet. Commercial raws are expensive for both cats and dogs. My hypothyroid kitty likes NV medallions, but won’t eat it regularily. The cost of feeding all five cats commercial raw is something I could not afford.

I would rather prepare my own raw diet rather than use a commercial if I were to feed it anyway. I have been researching them and I need to gain more knowledge about the needed protein/fat/vitamin levels for dogs and cats to be sure I don’t over or under supplement and cause health problems. It is going to take much more time for me to research a raw diet to do it right and time is limited for me right now.

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog, Jake likes beef liver. I have not found beef heart yet but he’s eaten everything else so I’m hopeful.
I thought the usda site was very helpful. I was surprised that they mentioned raw food, would have expected it to be food that people usually eat, but I searched “calories raw chicken” and it came up. It’s the usda nutritional database if you look for it. You can search a category like poultry or type in a specific like chicken.
No time to check the ABC thing yet. We have 3 techs out on sick leave right now so I’m working a lot of extra hours. Sounds interesting,tho. Just what I need as I really don’t think I’ll go completely raw. Can’t afford the complete raw like Darwin’s and don’t want to get involved in buying supplements and trying to concoct a healthy combo. Will count on good quality dog food to supply the specifics and add in some raw. Certainly a bit of heart or liver is a better treat than most of those things in the store!

[Suburban Gal]

As for the ingredients of Greenies being bad for dogs, just took at the ingredients for their competitors:

Nutri Dent dental chews:
Wheat Starch, Glycerin, Powdered Cellulose, Lecithin, Natural Flavor, Chlorophyll, Parsley & Soy Flour. Vitamins: Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin B-6, Folic Acid, Vitamin A. Vitamin E, Biotin, Choline, Inositol & PABA. Minerals: Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Chloride, Zinc Oxide, Copper Oxide, Manganese Oxide & Sodium Molybdate. Omega Fatty Acids: Omega-3 Fatty Acid & Omega-6 Fatty Acid.

Milk Bone brushing chews:
Rice, Modified Food Starch, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Water, Propylene Glycol, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Bone Phosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Gelatin, Animal Digest, Phosphoric Acid, Potassium Sorbate (Used As A Preservative), Smoke Flavor, Titanium Dioxide (Color), Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Yellow 6, Yellow 5, BHA (Used As A Preservative).

If you look closely enough, some of the same ingredients in Greenies are ALSO used in that of their competitor’s dental chews.

I took the liberty of checking the ingredients of Zuke’s Z-Bones. While the ingredients looked a lot better than the ingredients in Greenies, Nutri Dent and the like, I still think something like Zinc Propionate can’t be very good. Heck, I don’t even know what that is! (Would someone care to enlighten me?)

To be quite honest, it’s better to give your dog something than nothing at all and, as expensive as dental chews are, at least someone is making a good effort even if it’s not as good as Zuke’s Z-Bones.

I can’t wait for Zuke’s Z-Bones to receive the VOHC® Seal of Acceptance. IMHO, that means a little more to me as a pet owner.

[weezerweeks]

I just started my yorkie on the springtime joint supplement and the fresh factors. He had just finished a bottle of the Mercola joint chews,which I love. I noticed he has a lot of gas today,something he never has. The switching of joint chews and adding fresh factor is the only thing I’ve done different today. Do you think it could be these? I will wait and see what kind of stool he has tonight on our walk. Hope it’s not loose.I wanted to rotate his supplements because BC nut says she does and I think she’s pretty smart along with some others of you on here. Thanks

• This topic was modified 4 years ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[weezerweeks]

I have a yorkie and he loves to eat. I did have him on kibble but I have discovered that canned is better so now he’s on just canned with supplements. Yorkies are usually small and don’t eat much if they like canned and freeze dried why do u want them on kibble?

[Shasta220]

It seems like I have heard around here that allergy tests are usually very inaccurate. You can take the same dog in for a test three different times and have each result differ. I’d try an elimination diet for a while, using these suspect foods (usually done by a home made simple diet and adding one suspect allergen at a time to see if a reaction occurs).

It’ll take a while for an elimination diet, but that’s about the only way you can tell for sure.

I don’t know too many foods’ ingredient lists. Seems like Victor uses Sorghoum instead of rice/barley as the carb source. I know a home made/raw diet is tricky to do, but it might be easier if you could possibly grind the meat/supplements and portion out daily meals in the freezer? Then when you take her to the pet sitter, you can just give her a container. This might be a possibility at least until you could find a food that works well 🙂

Also agree with aquariangt, there will probably be no easily accessible kibble that avoids all those ingredients (assuming that she really /does/ react to them all), so canned may be a better option since it’s much easier to avoid problem ingredients.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shasta220.

[jakes mom]

Not ready, even close, to going all raw so I want to keep feeding the kibble to make sure all the bases are covered as far as nutrition. Don’t want to get involved in adding all kinds of supplements, etc. I’m thinking of the raw as healthy treats, not meals, at this point. I am in awe of the knowledge on the raw food forum!

[Bobby dog]

C4c:
I just dug up this article, couldn’t find where I saved it earlier. Just a little more info on K3:

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-only-approved-vitamin-k-supplement-in-pet-food/

Off the top of my head Rachael Ray includes K3 in alot of her recipes but not Zero Grain, the tubs, or the two chicken wet foods. Purina adds it to most dog & cat food (wet & dry); I have found a few of their canned dog foods w/o it. Nature’s Recipe includes it in most of their recipes for cats & dogs and some of the Soulistic cat food contains it. Basically, pet foods considered lower to mid-tier quality might include K3 in their recipes.

Just another ingredient to add to the list of undesireables and another reason a rotation diet makes sense.

[Anne R]

Thank you for the advice Sandy and Amy – I am going boggle-eyed from researching possible foods for both Millie and Fonzie at this point! I will check out your suggestions though. I am also wondering if there is a supplement that would help prevent Millie from getting pancreatitis again??

[pugmomsandy]

I like to use different products. Right now I’m using Springtime supplements but I have Actiflex 4000 (horse version) and cetyl myristoleate and krill oil to use in rotation. You can give supplements all year that maintain joint health. For increased activity, you can also give the supplements that have an increased amount of anti-inflammatories/herbals that also help relieve pain/discomfort. Since she already eats some raw food, you can let her have a chicken foot or some raw trachea a couple times a week for the cartilage to maintain joint health.

This Actiflex 4000 dosing came from a raw feeding group: 50-75 pounds: 1 ½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days, ¾ tsp. daily maintenance dose

[Bobby dog]

Hey C4c:
K3 can be listed several ways, one way is Menadione sodium bisulfate complex. It is one ingredient that is a pet peeve of mine (among others). A few years ago in one of my anatomy classes my Professor discussed K3 and I guess it just stuck in my head. Here’s some good info about it being included in pet food recipes (they explain it better than I ever could). There are many other sites that have info too, but probably the dogfoodproject IMO explains it a little more in depth and keeps it simple.

/choosing-dog-food/menadione-in-dog-food/
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

My cats do eat some food with K3 in their rotation; Purina being one of them. If I could get them to eat better quality canned food all the time I would, but they are stubborn and we all know you can end up with terrible health problems if you starve a cat. One of the reasons I researched the food ingredients for my “grocery store list” of pet food. If they are going to be addicted to Purina, the least I can do is find the best recipes out of all of their lines.

I do feel bad about kibble ingredients, but not near as bad when I first found this site. I feel I am making more informed decisions about the quality of kibble I am feeding and now it is only half of Bobby’s diet and the cats are only getting at most 1/8 C /day of kibble. So as Jakes mom wrote, “when you know better, you do better.”

Come on the raw journey with us!! lol At least I have Bobby the garbage disposal when my raw selections don’t go over well with the cats. Me and him will be finishing up the Kefir. lol

Also, on that Little Big Cat site I found an article about probiotics for cats. My kitty is starting to turn his nose up to Kefir. So I am researching what human probiotics I can supplement him with, nice site. 🙂

[Ysabella J]

Hello all!

I have followed this forum for some time now but this is my first official post! Yay! Okay, so I am trying to do some research on Joint Supplements and Omega 3 fatty acids to give my 2 year old Golden Retriever (almost 3 on May 25th). We have her on a wonderful diet that consists of Orijen kibble and Merrick canned food for breakfast, a raw meaty marrow bone or a stuffed kong for a snack and a raw Stella & Chewy’s patty for dinner. Her diet does wonders for her health and we learned much about it from this website. As she gets older, I would like to put her on joint supplement. I notice from time to time her joints will pop when she gets up or stretches. We do live in an area that has all 4 seasons and in the winters it gets well below zero. Now that it is springtime we really enjoy taking her out for very long, extensive hikes. She loves to run and swim during our hikes and I would like to have her on some type of anti-inflammatory (omega-3’s?) and a joint supplement. Now I have been doing a ton of research but that just creates a million questions:

First and foremost – Should we give her joint supplements/anti-inflammatories year round? Or do we only give them on days when she will be more active than normal?

Secondly – Which joint/anti-inflammatory would you recommend? I have done research and am seriously considering the Wholistic Pet Organics product line. Has anyone used this and would they recommend it? http://www.thewholisticpet.com/products/canine-product-line/joint-support.html/ Also, does anyone give their pet krill oil vs. salmon oil for omega 3’s?

Thirdly – I am a big fan of holistic medicine and don’t usually like big brand dog medication distributors. Is there anything we can do for her joints, besides swimming and keeping her lean, that will help without any supplement?

And last but not least – if you do recommend a supplement and it’s human grade, what dosage would I give my 65 pound girl?

Thanks so much in advance for your help, I greatly appreciate it!

• This topic was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Ysabella J.
• This topic was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Ysabella J.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m not sure about being too high protein, possibly….but it could be anything in the food. I have a Cavalier senior that had symptoms like your dog. Adding a good probiotic/enzyme supplement and feeding a good sized biscuit before bedtime helped her. She is not eating a senior food or grain free, atm, and she’s doing great. I do rotate and I just switched the dogs from Victor to Annamaet Encore. I do also add canned toppers and the probiotics mixed with a little water at each meal. They get a Wellness biscuit at bedtime.

[patvl246]

Our 3 year old English Mastiff (235 Pounds) has been on a raw diet all his life. We love him dearly and wouldn’t change a thing. I wonder how some of the raw feeders are doing with the expense of raw. We use Darwins, Hare Today, a local provider in NJ called Big Dog (Dehydrated Food) and we’ll buy chicken and some organ meat from our supermarket. Our guy eats 4 to 5 pounds a day, even a 4 pound daily diet is over $10 a day. How do you guys do it?? Do you supplement with canned or kibble, is the diet homemade?? HELP

[Naturella]

Gotcha. I will feed my dogs the same too one day unless the next one has any specific issues. I just looked at Farmina and really like their GF fish and lamb formulas – I am sad that the wild boar one has chicken as a supplement – you know, in case a dog is allergic to chicken, they can’t have the wild boar either. But anyway – that one is kind of expensive, so I will feed it one day when I can afford it, lol.

And great job on the supplements! Bruno gets just about the same too, and he loves his veggies too!

You could maybe check out Victor – locally, I find the 40-lb bags of grain-inclusive for $38.99 – so, about $1/lb when you apply tax and stuff. And it’s a decent food. Online it seems to be more than $1/lb though, which is odd, but oh well. I am lucky to live close to 2 pet boutiques, and Petland, Petco, and Petsmart, AND Costco are all within 15min of me… The pet boutiques have better deals on sales though, it seems. I may ask them to see if they can get me the Farmina for less… I will look for a coupon for it too! 😀

[Dori]

Hi Aleksandra. I’m in the Vinings area of Atlanta. My dogs have been on Sentinel for years and years. I’ve never had an issue with Sentinel or I guess I should say none of the dogs have ever had issues with Sentinel. Dogs that have since passed from old age, etc were on Sentinel also. Just remember all dogs react differently to meds, supplements just as they do to different foods. One thing I would advise is to not give Sentinel the same week that your dog gets his vaccinations. Give Sentinel either a week before or after his yearly vaccines. In Bruno’s case if he were my dog I would have vet give him his vaccinations this year and if you want to do titers testing next year you can if you want to. Just remember that titer testing cannot tell you how much immunity he has to any given illness. With his vaccines, if you wish, you can space his rabies and the others a week apart so he’s not being assaulted with all the vaccines at once.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[Carl L]

Great discussion.

Coming full circle: We love the idea of homecooking. I will pick up Hilary’s book from the vet this week.

But if the cost of home ingredients and the supplement per month for a 60 lb, high energy our young dog – like Bunny B – turns out to be much more expensive that getting a high quality “cooked frozen” which is complete and balanced, it seems silly not to consider it.

Buddy’s Kitchen is in Ontario, and it is sold by Global Pet Foods as “Nature’s Harvest”. We could do this for under $200 a month ($6.70 a day). There is also Rayne Cooked Frozen, but I don’t have a price yet.

If Bunny B’s estimate of $16 a day is even close for a Hilary Diet, it is completely out of whack. I would be freezing some of the home cooking anyway. Could home cooking be THAT much better than a quality cooked frozen at two or three times the price?!

Maybe it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Maybe some home cooking and some commercial frozen.

[Carolyn P]

Hi Carl L:

I feed my pack of Chi’s twice a day, and they each get approximately 100 grams twice a day.

The 700 ml jar of supplement lasts me just over a month. I cook weekly.

I haven’t ever added up the cost of using Hilary’s, perhaps I should one day. But the cost didn’t really matter to me if it meant my dogs were healthy, which in turn meant fewer trips to the Vet. After spending a year in emergency clinics with the sickly one, I didn’t think twice about the cost to feed, I only knew I was never going to feed commercial again.

I started her on Orijen and it nearly killed her, too high in protein. The Wellness, then Taste of the Wild, the ONLY thing that righter her ills was Hilary’s. I feed R12 for the most part with a transitioning recipe thrown in periodically just for a change.

My one chi is a chubby wee thing with a heart condition, so she gets an entirely different diet altogether (still Hilary’s).

I swear by it. As long as I’m able, I’ll be homecooking.

[KPC]

Hello, all!

I recently aquired a pup (Kaiser) & am feeding 4Health puppy formula. My adult dog (Jinx) is on the 4Health Salmon & Potato currently.

I was wondering if there was a distinct advantage of feeding formulated for puppies food over adult, or all stages. The caloric count is about 20 higher on the pup formula. I entered all the ingredients into a spreadsheet & there was only one notable difference (besides the different meat products) which was Chondroitin Sulfate, for joint support apparently.

So, the question is, should I keep feeding puppy formula or perhaps add supplements or vitamins to an adult formula for him?

(His mother is 50lbs, father unknown; just for a size/growth reference)

Thanks, all!

[Steve K]

HDM
What do you think about glucosamine and chondroitin supplements for a giant breed puppy?

[Carl L]

Hey BunnyB, thanks for the reply.

Holy smokers. $16 a day? Really?? I hope you have a 240 pound dog. Then I can do it for $4 a day for our 60 pound guy. I had no idea homemade would be so expensive. We just got the idea about Hilary’s recipes from our vet. I had not costed it. The supplement alone is almost as expensive as a quality kibble.

We are not convinced yet to go raw. But we feel we should try to better than kibble. If the cost for home cooked is as you say, I wonder about one of the 5-star, “lightly-cooked” frozen, commercial foods. Surely it could be done for less than $16 a day, without the hours of cooking time.

Appreciate the reply from someone that has “been there, done that”.

[Susan]

You said that ur dogs itch none stop, you must start with an elimination diet, I started one about 1 month ago as my boy has Pancreatitis & enviornment allergies we dont know if he has food allergies that’s why I’d say the vet suggested an elimination diet, The vet said the first month just feed boil chicken but I knew my boy could eat boil chicken so I added cooked pumkin, then when I saw he wasnt scratching or rubbing his tummy on my beautiful white rug the next week I added sweet potato within 2 days Patch was rubbing on my carpet so I stopped the sweet potato & know he cant have sweet potato or a kibble with sweet potato…. then I added pasta another NO it made him itch then I read dogs with skin problems like yeast & bacteria shouldnt eat carbohydrates, potatos, sweet potatos etc, then I added half a boiled egg & he’s been good, Im thinking of adding broccoli next.. Im reading Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs by Lew Olson PhD she has help me understand alot of things & this group its a easy book to read & very easy recipes, she explains what foods aren’t good & what foods are good for certain illness, like Skin problems & what causes ur dog to itch, Pancreatitis Diabetes, Gastro problems, feeding senior dogs, getting a pup onto raw etc, she has cooked recipes & what supplements to add.. in the elimination diet you cannot give any treats nothing, just that one food for 2 weeks then 2 foods so on.. you must cook all vegetables so they are fully cooked, she even suggest to pulped vegetables as dogs digestive system weren’t meant to eat vegies, here’s one of her recipes for Skin allergies a Low Glycemic regular fats Diet..this is for a 50 pound dog to be divide into two or more smaller meals per day.
8 ounces 1 cup regular fat ground beef
2 ounces 1/4 cup beef liver or kidney
2 eggs scrambled or boiled
4 ounces 1/2 cup steamed or boiled broccoli
4 ounces 1/2 cup cooked yellow crookneck squash
4 ounces 1/2 cup whole milk yogurt
Serve meat cooked or raw combined with cooked vegetables eggs & yogurt if serving meat cooked wait until meat & eggs have cooled before stirring in the yogurt…..
What I do is I cook once a fornight & freeze everything except the egg then put in fridge the night before to thaw for next day…

[Bunny B]

Carl L – I also have used Hilary’s Complete and Balanced

I have a high energy 2 year old dog and she burns lots of calories. I found I had to feed WAY more than the recommended amount than what Hilary says in her book. The supplements were $79 CDN for the big bottle and lasted me about 1 1/2 mo. It was costing me $16 a day and 3 hrs a night in the kitchen. I chose to do this anyhow because I have heard the benefits of real food for a dog and had seen the results on other peoples dogs. I did this for 5 months when I couldn’t stand the time and money anymore! I still strongly believe in real food, and that the real food has to be complete and balanced. Then I happened across NRG dehydrated food. This was the next best thing to home cooked. It cost me about $10 a day. And only 1 min in the kitchen!! She did fabulously on this for 7 months. Then she developed what I a, convinced of an allergy to grain so I put her on Natures Variety raw frozen. Which I just love, all the benefits of real food all ready made for me!

But now I am spending about $14 a day with Natures Variety and was thinking I should go back to Hilary’s…although I am a raw believer now on certain meats, but she says lots of her recipes (specific ones) can be fed raw. I happened across your post tonight out of coincidence!

I have to say Hilary’s seems to be great but I do NOT recommend her recipes that contain tomatoes or tomato sauce if your dog has a sensitive stomach or is susceptible to acid reflux. And if you are trying to find Safflower oil you may have to go to a health food store, it should be next to the olive oil. Alternately if you can’t find that I called and she actually picked up the phone which I thought was weird but she said you can use sunflower oil. And I find it hard finding cod liver oil, again I found this in a health food store. And the easiest way to pulse veggies is in a magic bullet btw.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Bunny B.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Bunny B.

[Naturella]

Sarah, true, I was looking at the BB Wilderness Senior Red Meat formula, which has lower protein and lower phosphorus than the Senior Chicken formula. The Red Meat one has the same phosphorus as the Holistic Select Senior. And I see about the protein. I supplement with raw and canned every once in a while, so Bruno’s protein amounts vary a bit, but he seems to be okay with it.

Also, keep us posted on how Holistic Select goes for your dogs. I would get a smaller bag first, to see if they would even eat it, and if there are any digestive issues with it before I go for the bigger bag.

[LexiDog]

She’s a 37 pound lab mix. We did the DNA test and it said that she has stafford shire terrier and rat terrier too but is probably at least 70% lab. She is black with a little bit of white with short fine hair. She is 2 years old.

I know Primal has a Turkey & Sardine formula I could try and increase the amount of coconut oil a little.

Someone said that they give their dogs the brewers yeast tabs…Would that help with her coat? I don’t know.. I’m not really into giving her too many supplements and what not.

[Naturella]

Several, actually! You could really help us out by letting us know her breed, age, weight, and maybe hair length.

Also, I know fish oil is another supplement widely used by forumers to help with skin and coat issues. So are canned (or raw) sardines. Coconut oil is a great supplement, I use it myself, but you may need to adjust the amount depending on her weight. Fish-based foods are also known to help skin/coat issues.

As for my Rat Terrier mix (13lbs), I give him a teaspoon of coconut oil every other day, a canned sardine once a week, a bath every 2 weeks, and I “condition” him while he is still somewhat damp with a mix of coconut, olive, and sunflower oils, in which there are vitamins A, D, and E dissolved. So I rub that on his coat, trying to reach the skin until he doesn’t feel greasy and it makes him super soft and shiny. Also, he is currently on a fish-based food, so that will probably be good, but he has no particular issues to begin with. I did think he was excessively dandruffy when I brushed him, but that was supposed to be normal as I elevated all his dead skin by brushing him. Otherwise I don’t see any flakes.

Excess dandruff may be due to an allergy or something too, or just be how your dog is – sometimes, even all measurements do not quite help resolve the dandruff issue.

Hope others chime in with more advice or corrections of anything I may have misspoken about! 🙂

[Carl L]

Hello Carolyn,

If you are still checking in, could you help?

I just found out about Hilary’s book and supplement, and we are considering it. We have a young Lab, and not three chihuahua’s, but I am concerned about the expense of the supplement – which would be in addition to the cost of the good, wholesome ingredients in the recipes.

On her website, I think I read that one bottle of supplement would last about a month for a 40 pound dog. Does that sound about right to you? (I have no idea how much 3 chihuahua’s weigh, ha, ha!).

Thanks,
Carl

[Bobby dog]

Would I need to add a taurine supplement if I was just feeding something raw once or twice a week at most?

[DogFoodie]

Nature’s Logic makes a whole food supplement called All Food Fortifier that contains taurine.

[theBCnut]

Hi jakes mom

You freeze things that might have parasites, They are killed by freezing. Bacteria are not. I always freeze pork, wild game, and fish.

Hi Bobby dog

Other than shooting for an approximation of a whole animal, the thing to remember with cats is their need for taurine in their diet. Taurine is water soluable, so when you freeze meat then defrost it, it is important for the cat to get the fluids that seperate out, because it may have taurine in it. Hare Today has a supplement to add to meat and bone, but I always buy whole prey grinds for my cats, because they don’t like the supplements. I also tried Darwin’s cat food, but mine didn’t like the texture.

[llynns]

My dog has also had Pancreatitis. At the same time as the pancreatitis, he spent several days in the ER with Gastroenteritis. We fed him a bland diet for 3-4 weeks. In addition to the Pancreatitis issues, he is also allergic to white potatoes. I slowly (very slowly) transitioned him over to Horizon Legacy Grain Free, Salmon. In addition to the food change I started him on digestive enzymes. He’s currently on Wholistic Pet Canine Complete. I think the combination of the food change and the supplement addition is what really worked. I don’t know that just changing the food would have given me the same results as also adding the enzymes and probiotics. I could not advise on the diabetes….I have no experience with that. Good luck on your search.

[[email protected]]

Hi Wanda,
After almost a year I have helped Jasmine with a hypoallergenic diet (Royal Canin Potato/Venison. One of the causes can be a food allergy, and it turned out to be chicken which is in a lot of dogfoods. She LOVES the food and it is possible that is an issue with your dog, but I only found out by starting a novel diet which she never had. She is still on metrodonizol and Ursodial but doing very wedll on the combo. I found that probiotics and most supplements were contrary to her disease. I also believe she is allergic to fish so fish oil also throws her off. I can almot guarantee he will love the food!
Best wishes,

Karen

[CattleCait]

Background info: I have two dogs, Jessie (6yo, F, ACD) and Gus (9yo, M, ACD x Beagle). Both were adult rescues, Jess has shown many symptoms of canine PTSD, several of which have waned over the past year that I’ve had her.

I recently picked up extra shifts at work, which seems to be taking a toll on Jessie emotionally. Usually these shifts only consist of 4-5 hours, but I have been working more doubles which means I’m gone from 10am-7:30pm. During the day Gus and Jess are either in their outdoor dog run (very large) with a dog house and a few toys. If the weather is bad, they stay inside and upstairs because I am living at home (college) and my mother sells baked goods, so the dogs can’t be near the food we sell. My siblings are home in the afternoons, and my sister lets them out and plays a bit with them when she gets home from school.

Jess has gone off of her feed – she gets Nature’s Logic for breakfast and dinner and a raw chicken neck with her dinner. Lately she’s been refusing her kibble and eats only the necks. She has also gained a lot of weight, which leads me to believe she’s been much less active during the day than usual. When I get home, we used to play wrestle a bit, but she doesn’t want to do that anymore either. She won’t play with Gus either, so now he’s just a ball of wired up energy when I get home.

Any suggestions as to how I can help her feel better? I can’t drop hours at work or she’ll have to start hunting for her own food. I have a couple of puzzle toys for her, one of which I leave out during the day because it doesn’t have any loose pieces, but she quit playing with it. I’ve been thinking of getting some stuffable Kong-like toys. Any ideas? Herbal supplements? Games or exercises?

[crazy4cats]

I have never dealt with that issue as my current and past dogs will eat anything at anytime! I hesitate to make any suggestions due to your pup’s health conditions. I’m not sure if you have checked this out, but on the review side of this site, there is a list of excellent low fat foods. Just click on best dog foods and it will bring up different categories of foods, including low fat. It is my understanding that with diabetes, that kibble is not the best form of food to feed. Canned, dehydrated, cooked or raw is best. I hope someone that can help will jump in. But, I’m not sure that anyone can predict which food your dog will like and for how long. LOL! I feed my dogs with digestive issues Victor grain free mixed with canned, eggs, or sardines or fresh pet select. I also give a digestive and probiotic supplements. I hope you find something that makes your pup better. Good luck!

[Carolyn P]

Great homemade diet is Hilary’s Complete and Balanced.

Have been feeding it to my pack of Chihuahua’s for 3 years now.

It’s a recipe book and a supplement. Lots of variety including recipes for dogs with health concerns.

[Carolyn P]

I homecook for my dogs and use a supplement called Hilary’s Complete and Balanced.

Available at Vet’s, it comes with a recipe book, and the supplement.

I have been feeding my pack of chihuahua’s this for 3 years now and they are all in great health.

I had a sickly little one 2 years ago – and the Hilary’s turned her around – no more crystals in her urine, her liver issues cleared up.

I highly recommend it.

[pugmomsandy]

Just because a dog is “senior” doesn’t mean it has these problems. All those problems can potentially happen at any age. I’ve fostered many dogs under 5 (even as young as 1 yr) with joint/eye/digestion/ear issues and have needed hip/knee surgeries and prescription eye and ear drops. A healthy senior can eat regular food (adult, maintenance and all life stages, puppy food). I have a 14 yr old with no active health issues. He is blind and deaf which he was already when I got him last year at 13. He is not on any medications and eats the same foods as all the other foster dogs I have. I use 3.5-4.5 star kibble and top it off with 5 star canned foods which is normally at least 43% protein. He even gets some raw food which I usually make without any plant matter. The dogs get joint supplements and vitamins, antioxidants, supergreen supplements and fish oil. My personal dogs don’t get chemical pesticides which has been linked to some cancers nor do they get unnecessary vaccines. You might want to research “over vaccination”. Try looking up Dogs4dogs dot com, b-naturals dot com, wholedogjournal dot com, dogsnaturallymagazine dot com. These are just a few of the sites pertaining to more “natural” care of dogs. If one of my dogs had late stage kidney disease, at that point I would change the diet, but I wouldn’t change the diet just because they’re a senior in general. Some things possibly connected to cancer is chemical laden commercial kibble, vaccines, the constant application of poisonous pesticides (heartworm and flea/tick meds, fertilizers), even air pollution.

http://dogs4dogs.com/

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Tina –

Not all senior dogs have these problems you mention. If your dog does have any of these problems, you can supplement the feed. For example, if your dog has joint problems you may consider supplementing with omega 3’s, glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, etc. If your dog has digestion problems you may wish to add probiotics, enzymes, additional fiber, etc.

[Bette W]

I own a natural/holistic pet food store, and the best results we have had for yeast problems was a combination of Canine Caviar dog food and N’zymes supplement. N’zymes is available either as a treat or sprouted granules which are added to the pet’s food.

[Naturella]

Tabitha, good points – I don’t think it’s the nutrition because I try to supplement Bruno’s kibble diet with RMBs and raw eggs, sardines, coconut oil, yoghurt/kefir, pumpkin, flax seeds, and the occasional dog-friendly fruit/veggie bits, as well as canned food.

Now, the boredom might be it. Both the hubs and I go to school full time and work part-time, so poor guy sometimes only gets 30min-1hr walks instead of a good playtime in the dog park or good training session. We have 2 brain-stimulating doggie board games that we need to whip out more often… so that could definitely be part of it. Even with my busy schedule I try to take him to the dog park at least 2-3 times/week, weather and time permitting, but when I injured my back last Sunday I wasn’t able to take him out at all thi s week. BUT, I also try to play chase with him for 15-30min in the evenings, but I can definitely look into more options… thanks for some suggestions, Carlyn! 🙂

[Cotons mom]

what is a good source to find out about milk thistle, SAMe and other supplements?

[Alexia M]

Hi everyone!
My 5 year old Akita/Pit mix went from 91 lbs to 76 lbs in 10 months by increasing exercise, switching to Wellness Core Reduced Fat, and counting her daily caloric intake. She is now at her ideal weight and I was wondering if I should switch her to kibble that is no longer low fat. I asked my vet, but he said he recommends she stay on a low fat kibble. The reason I want to switch her back to regular kibble is because though she has lost weight, her energy level is pretty low. I know that fats are an energy source so I thought that might help. Also, about 24 hours ago she started chattering her teeth periodically. I have a vet dentist appointment on Monday, but was wondering if it could be from a nutrient deficiency. I currently supplement her feed with fish oil and Cosequin DS plus MSM daily. Do you think switching her back to a “normal” fat kibble will benefit her overall health? Thank you for your help!

[Shawna]

You and I remember that conversation slightly differently aimee..

My entire “initial” comment was
“I imagine they would have to eat a lot of thyroids to overdose on iodine that way.? Additionally, if there were truly a risk of hyperthyroid and raw diets I am certain Dr. Dodds would be one of the first to recommend against them.

I don’t think even one of the raw diets I feed contains any thyroid (or gullet). The supplements I use do but not the foods.” /dog-food-reviews/natures-logic-dog-food-dry/#comment-1204301377

Shortly after I posted (this is only a portion of the post)
“Dr. Dodds actually does have an article regarding this study..

“Dr. Peterson’s “Bottom Line”:
In man, community-wide outbreaks of “hamburger thyrotoxicosis,” resulting from inadvertent consumption of ground beef contaminated with bovine thyroid gland, have been previously reported (3,4). These outbreaks resulted in the banning of “gullet trimming,” in which meat in the neck region of slaughtered animals is ground into hamburger……

…..In the dogs of this report, it is obvious that the correct balance was not maintained and a very large amount of raw thyroid gland tissue ended up in their raw meat diet. As is the case with the exogenous L-T4, these natural thyroid hormones are not destroyed by gastric acid and can then be absorbed, leading to high concentration of circulating T4
and clinical sign of hyperthyroidism.” http://drjeandoddspethealthres…” /dog-food-reviews/natures-logic-dog-food-dry/#comment-1204382360

[Susan]

Just found the page Lew olson says, much of the time the problem can be tracted back to carbohydrates, When dogs digest grains, reserves of important bacteria in ur dogs intestines become depleted, causing essential vitamins like vitamin B & K to be passed with the faces, When a dogs eats another dogs stool he may be trying to get back the bacteria & enzymes that are missing in his diet…Carbohydrates are more difficult to digest & may pass thru the dogs system only partially digested this may also make stools more tempting to ur dog. ..So what can u do? add digestive enzyems, beneficical bacteria & a B complex vitamin to the dogs diet may help curb his drive to eat stools, Reducing or eliminating carbs can also produce smaller less “appetizing” stools in which the food is more completely digested. A diet of raw meat & bones on the other hand, produces smaller, drier, & less smelly stools.The fewer grains ur dog eats the more benficial enzymes & bacteria remain avialable to ensure stools are well-formed & almost odorless. Unripe Pineapple & papayas are rich in the enzyems ur dog needs to break down proteins, & the bromelain in pineapple can also help with inflammation & the uptake of other supplements.
If ur dog is on a grain free kibble it may have potatoes which are carbohydrates…. This book ‘Raw & Nutual Nutrition for dogs’ is an excellent read Im learning so much, explaining heaps of health problems & what to feed ur dog.. good easy recipes Raw or cooked..

[InkedMarie]

Dori,
We aren’t sure. He started with ear infections, again, a year ago. We honestly have no idea what started them back up, after being free of them for almost seven years. I didn’t want him on raw again, simply due to money but after being fine on NB lid sweet potato & fish, he got another one. My holistic vet suggested stopping all supplements & said since his ear infections were yeast, she worried about fruits & veggies (sugar can feed yeast). So, back to ground raw for him.

[Dori]

Nectarmom. James gave me quite a bit of his time. Never actually suggested I started ordering and actually wants me to show all the info to Hannah’s vet and get her ok before ordering anything. He also gave me the names of three holistic vets and suggested I make appt. for Hannah with holistic vet and get their opinion, again, before deciding what food and supplements to use. No, I would never simply call a food company rep. and take their word for their product and then order it. But, thanks for your advice.

Marie. As always, thank you. What kind of issues does Boone have with fruits/veggies? Is it both fruits and veggies or either or? What type of allergic issues? Don’t you just wish they could speak and tell us what their feeling? Somebody needs to work on that!! LOL! If only!

[Dori]

Caroline. Thank you so much for posting. Good luck on Saturday when you re-test. I’ll be praying for you and your dog. I’m also praying that it was some supplement, or too many different supplements that have taxed or toxed her liver. Anyway I’m trying to cover the basis and, thank God, though Hannah’s vet is not a holistic vet, she seems to be taking the same steps that Dr. Becker and other’s that I’ve been researching since I found out the results on Monday. Just Monday?? It seems like longer than that. Anyway, more testing tomorrow and I’m hoping like your dog, after a month or so leaving any and all supplements out that except for the milk thistle and the Denamarin that things will get back to normal levels. If it’s not something worse than I can only assume it’s a supplement or too many that I’ve given. I have an auto immune illness and tons of allergies myself since about 1997 everything is fragrance free and dye free in my home. No candles burning, no fragrance sprays for bathrooms, nothing at all. Backyard has no lawn, all flower beds, so no week killers or anything like that.

Funny that you should mention Darwin’s prescription diet. I spoke with James at Darwin’s this afternoon for quite a while about Hannah and what’s going on. I’ve printed out all the forms, nutritional analysis, etc. on the LS diet. He’s given me his direct line to give to Hannah’s vet and also said he’d gladly send the vet some samples if she wants to see the food herself. I told James I will not put her on any food the vet sells, Hills, SD, Royal Canin, whatever. Not after all the good she has derived from her present diet. I refuse to put her on crap diets for the remainder of her life regardless of how long or short it may be. Anyhow, he was so great and made me feel so much better. I have really been a totally wreck since Monday morning when the vet called with Hannah’s liver levels skyrocketing and out of control. After my conversation with him it was the first time all week that I felt like I could take a deep breath and actually breathe.

Oh, and more great news. He gave me the name and phone numbers of three holistic/integral vets that he knew personally and from different conferences in my area. So it was a win win conversation.

Thanks again for your post. I don’t feel quite so alone. I’ll be thinking of you on Saturday and will post everyone along the way about Hannah and next testing of x-ray and ultra sound and Cushing’s test.

Everyone here has been keeping me a little saner and a lot less weepy. Thanks everyone from the bottom of my heart I love you all.

[Shawna]

Okay, friend in California — let’s call her T.. T rotates (you know me and rotation) between the Preference and Steve’s and adds raw antelope, buffalo, beef etc. These are all no bone in commercial products she gets from a local puppy boutique in her area.

The premix she was using (that he dog was reacting to) is called NDF2. Just realized it has wheat brand and germ too. For some reason I was just remember the oats??? http://www.volharddognutrition.com/natural-diet-foundation-2/natural-diet-foundation-2.html She had heard about the diet on a Yahoo group and a premix was appealing to her so she could rotate the meat. But she wasn’t rotating the NDF at all.

She feeds raw green tripe once a week, fasts the dogs once a week and makes her own kefir using raw milk and kefir grains (it is legal to buy raw milk in California). She feeds a REALLY good diet. After reading a previous post about some of the other symptoms you are seeing in Hannah however, I highly doubt the elevated liver values are due to detoxing like was the case in T’s dog.

If it ends up being the liver you might want to look in to Dr. Dodds liver diet using white fish and potato. White fish creates less ammonia which in turn is less stressful for the liver as it is the liver that has to convert the ammonia to urea. There are also supplements that can be considered — such as Sam-e and milk thistle in therapeutic doses, Standard Process Hepatic Support and so on. I have a contact at SP that can help with product recommendations if wanting to go that route.

You might want to also consider a phone consult with a nutritionist or a holistic vet once you have an official diagnosis. Treating cushings will be somewhat different than treating liver cancer. Mary Straus, Dr. Becker, Dr. Dodds, Naturopathic Vets Dr. Jeannie Thomason or Kim Bloomer, Dr. Peter Dobias, Dr. Christina Chambreau, Dr. Martin Goldstein, Dr. Barbara Royal (Darwins) etc might be some to consider speaking with. Jacqueline at Answer’s might have suggestions for diet or vets to speak with too? I could contact her on your behalf. I’m guessing you’ve already determined the diet for cushings can be high protein, lower fat/purines and carb.

Dr. Becker has several video/articles on cushings if that is the diagnosis or if you want to get info early before a definitive diagnosis. She talks about typical and a-typical cushings as well as causes (she, and others, feel early spaying can cause a-typical as an example) and dietary prevention (which you were doing by feeding lower carb, moisture rich.

[theBCnut]

Annamaet is first on any list because the list is alphabetical, not to say that Annamaet isn’t a good food, because it is. You might get a better response to your question if you posted it under a topic about arthritis instead of one about allergies though. With arthritis, grain free is a good idea because grains are known to be inflamatory. A good joint supplement with hyaluronic acid in it would definitely be in order. And finally, make sure that you keep any extra weight off of her. Oh, one more thing, slick floors are hard on joints.

Mel, I must be more cat than I thought. I know when I’ve been rubbed the wrong way. Good thing you aren’t in charge of the universe.

[Aleksandra S]

I have a mini St. Bernard (cocker spaniel/St. Bernard mix, 5th generation). She is 8 months old and I am feeding her Royal Canin Medium Puppy Chiot, with Science Diet puppy canned food 1/2 half a day. She has developed a limp over past 2 months. We just got radiologist’s reading and they think that it could be fragmented coronoid process with arthritis. I don’t know what her therapy will be yet, but I think it’s too early for her to have arthritis. I want to switch her to gluten free food and I am considering your current number 1 – grain free Annamaet. Is it appropriate for a puppy? Any wet food combo you would recommend? Any supplements?
Thank you!