[Ysabella J]

Hey everyone!

I know this is mainly a forum for dog nutrition but I am branching out looking for information. I will try to make this as short as possible. About a month ago, Reese (our 4 & a half year old Golden) was outside playing with a stick and came back to me crying. I examined her mouth and didn’t find anything. For the next few days she was very sore when opening her mouth too wide. Took her to the vet and they sedated her and checked her mouth and did X-rays with everything returning normal. She was put on meloxicam and the doctor warned me about MMM. She quickly got better and wasn’t as sore but I noticed she still wouldn’t open her mouth all the way when yawning and seemed to be careful when picking up balls. Another vet said it could be TMJ and to continue the nsaid for another week. Other than not being able to fully yawn, she seemed to be completely fine. Eating fine, no drool, no whining, etc. I talked to the vet and they recommended sending out the 2M antibody test and starting prednisone. I did some of my own research and decided to get a 2nd opinion from the holistic vet first. Only thing is, she was booked out 3 weeks. In the meantime, we were careful with her jaw. No bones or chewing and no ball playing. She didn’t get any worse and I once again only noticed her yawn being off. Fast forward, Reese had her initial appointment last week and the doctor there agreed with MMM. Said the muscles around her jaw bone felt almost non-existing. She also commented on how her cheek muscles looked like they were slightly sunken in. We sent out the 2M antibody test and it came back as a borderline antibody titer and they recommend a muscle biopsy to confirm. Vet agrees with me that since her symptoms aren’t terrible that we will wait to do this since it is an invasive procedure. The holistic vet decided to put her on chinese herbs and supplements. We are also doing acupuncture weekly (for now). She said at this point since her only symptom seems to be her yawning and muscle atrophy that we don’t need to put her on prednisone, or NSAIDs. If it gets worse, we may have to. I will do anything before turning to the steroids. We are reluctant that we caught it before it progressed but doc says no vaccines or toxins that can trigger a reaction since it’s an auto immune disease. We already had been feeding partially raw and Orijen kibble which we will continue to do. She has had two acupuncture sessions and has been on the supplements for one week and I haven’t noticed improvement, but she’s also not doing worse. Anyone have any recommendations or have been through this? I read it is common in the breed but I had never heard of this disease until now. Any advice is much appreciated from me and my girl. Thanks from the both of us!

[Dina Kouveliotes]

So far so good feeding Petcurean Now Fresh Large Breed. I think Orijen has been free of controversy except for an issue exporting to Australia, but that was a unique situation. Ideally I’d love to feed fresh food, but I won’t feed raw (disgusts me, not the dog) and cooking a balanced meal for a dog is somewhat challenging. So I supplement the kibble with fresh foods as a compromise.

[Bev A]

Well the tones really didn’t do much or maybe they did depending on the point of view. I sent a message to Caru, whom I am told makes a wonderful dog food that no dog ever turns down. But it is very expensive. So I sent an email to them and they willingly sent me a couple samples. Well, there is a first for everything because Bitty refused to touch it. I mixed the Science Diet KD with goats milk and gave that to her in a syringe every couple hours. She is just ornery. I went to give her some medication, her phenobarb, and she got down in front of me, that little butt up in the air and her tail wagging. Every time I got close she took off, barking, and ran to another area. I finally cornered her to give her meds. But she was having a grand time so that is why I knew she was just being stubborn. I did pick up a can of Tripe, thinking I was wasting money again but by golly she ate it this morning!!So maybe the tones worked or maybe she was just hungry enough to eat finally. We will see how it goes. Still waiting on the supplements to come in.

[Kristine V]

Hi all,

Thank you all for your support and suggestions. Koji’s symptoms started early September. We noticed he was looking a little skinny and suddenly he started throwing up before eating, after eating, eating grass etc. On evening of day 3 and throwing up, we took him to his vet. They gave him a shot to help with the nausea. The last time he had seen his vet was in June for his last puppy shots. From June to September he had not gained any weight. His symptoms were slowly creeping on. That night at the vets office, they did x-rays and said there was no visible foreign object but there was lots of gas and thickening of his small intestines associated with inflammation. Our vet then referred us to a specialist, Internal Medicine doctor. Ultrasound was done, which pretty much revealed the same as the x-ray. From this point on, he just got worse. He was put on so many medications, had every blood test done, and everything pointed toward Inflammartory Bowel Disease.

THE BIG PROBLEM: Koji is eating, however, due to whatever is going on in his small intstines, is NOT ALLOWING ANY NUTRIENTS to be absorbed in his body. Hence the continued weight loss. Last week alone he lost 3 pounds within 4 days. He went from 81lbs and is now down to 74lbs. So I’m sure as your reading this, you can see our desperation and dilemma. NOTHING is working. His new vet, who did the NutriScan food sensitivity test and is currently treating Koji, is as baffled as we are. No matter what we feed him, no matter waht supplements we have given him or how often he eats, his body is just not absorbing any nutrients. We tried the Holistic approach along with Western Medicine and NO SUCCESS. Trust me when I say this, we have exhausted every non surgical option to help our boy. I am his voice and his advocate and no matter the cost, we are not giving up on him. I have called so many specialist BEGGING to have a new set of eyes review his medical records and NOT ONE specialist was willing to review them without paying $180.00 and having to bring Koji in for an appointment. I work in the medical field and peer case reviews are done all the time. Why in the hell can’t a group of specialist do the same.

So this is where we are….our baby is in pain, has no life in him, no excitement, no mommy kisses or cuddles. He doesn’t want to be bothered. My husband and I knew the steriods would make him feel like this and we told ourselves we have to suck it up seeing him like this and pray for a damn miracle that the steriods kick in internally and we see progress. Sadly, nothing has changed except him getting skinnier. On the positive, we had his protein levels checkedthis past Tuesday and they are perfect. Meaning he is not in immediate life threathening danger. Meaning we have a little more time to give the steriods a good 2 weeks of waiting and see what happens. There is no worse heart ripping pain than seeing him suffer like this. So as you can imagine, as much as we truly DO NOT want him going through open abdominal surgery, we have no other choice. It’s a major surgery and not one to be taken lightly. The risks associated with this surgery are very high and we could very well loose him. But in our hearts, we feel we are slowly loosing him now. So what’s a parent to do? Risk the surgery and know we will get an exact diagnosis, or do nothing and we end up having to cross him over the rainbow bridge? It’s tuff ya’ll. A very crappy situation to be in. For all we know, and the IM doctor said herself, he could have a piece of plastic or some small object in his intestine that she wasn’t able to see on ultrasound. I can go on and on but in the end, nothing we are doing is working and he isn’t getting any better and I just want a miracle and want my baby back! 🙁

I would like to post his picture so you all can see my beautiful boy but I don’t know how to upload a picture on here as my profile picture.

[Bev A]

Well I picked up Bitty’s test results and the Creatinine level is a little high. It is 1.6. I wonder if that makes a difference in what I give her in the supplements.

[anonymously]

I am not aware of any foods or supplements that would make a difference….however, have you considered cataract surgery for your pet? Click on link for full article: https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/cataracts-and-your-pet/

What are the alternatives to cataract surgery?
Cataract surgery is an elective procedure. Dogs with impaired vision, or even complete blindness in both eyes, adapt very well and can continue to be a happy, healthy, integral member of your family.

[Diane P]

I have an 11 year old female Boston Terrier. She has Cataracts in both eyes. Other than supplements that I have purchased online, I was wondering if there is a specific diet that might be helpful in reducing the severity of the Cataracts? She has been on a Grain Free diet for years now. Her weight is perfect, coat is glossy…but the Cataracts and associated blindness are causing depression (for both of us). Any suggestions?

• This topic was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Diane P.

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Ryan Y:
I’m new to raw feeding so I will stick to quoting the tried and true veterans of the field, but I do know that you have to be careful balancing phosphorous and calcium ratios as well as avoiding too much Vitamin A (often found in liver and fibrous carbohydrates like pumpkin). An older post in this forum written by Hound Dog Mom on the topic of Raw Feeding has a wonderful recipe she’s come up with (and also tested against AAFCO standards) that seems easy to make and is balanced as a full vitamin and mineral mix. Reminder that these are vitamins and minerals in their dietary form and not their tablet or pill form if that makes sense. I’ll post it here for you as I’ve copied it for my own use and don’t have time to hunt around for the original post!

Hound Dog Mom’s Whole Food Multi-Vitamin/Mineral Supplement (for her large dogs):

4 oz kelp powder
4 oz alfalfa powder
4 oz wheatgrass powder
4 oz spirulina powder
4 oz chlorella powder
4 oz bee pollen powder
4 oz turmeric powder
2 oz garlic powder

I know she also uses apple cider vinegar, cod liver oil, Himalayan crystal salt, calcium citrate, coconut oil and various mixed tocopherols tocotrienols in her dogs’ diet, but these would vary with dog size, age, weight and of course the other food items being fed at the time. Again, if you look through the forums, you should be able to find some of her outstanding dietary advice.

[Ruth Anne G]

UPDATE! So my puppy is doing much better. The medicine helped a lot with the diarrhea. He no longer has it. He’s off of his antibiotics (to prevent upper respiratory infection). He is almost potty trained but still has a few accidents. So i consulted with my vet and a friend and I ended up making my own dog food. He’s been eating it for about 4 days now and he loves it. I add a supplement with it but the recipe i used is great for him. His energy is higher and he doesn’t have dandruff nor does he scratch and bite at his feet or fur anymore. He’s doing so much better and he seems happier. He got his deworm and vaccine on Monday. He cried all the way to the shelter poor thing. (He gets car anxiety)

Other than that he’s doing a lot better and he’s enjoying his new home. Thank you all for the advice. I look forward to asking other questions if need be later on. Thanks a lot!

[Ryan Y]

So I’m super worried about giving too much or too little.

We do an occasional veggie mix of blended greens, carrots, and bananas. Just whatever seems fun I guess.

Liver occasionally. Gizzards occasionally.

The supplements I use are salmon oil, Pet Kelp Joint and Bone formula, and Nature’s Logic all food fortifier. Today was the first time I’ve used both together.

I’ll give eggs and the shell occasionally. And just even got a bone meal powder supplement. bone occasionally. My dog has a chipped tooth…so yeah. Totally different topic there. Yes she’s seen a vet lol

I guess what I’m asking, is if anyone knows I’m doing too much or too little of a certain nutrient.

Natures logic says if I do the usual 80/10/10 split it should do the rest and make everything “complete”

Does anyone have anything else to recommend to make things “complete” other than like the Honest Kitchen haha

Here is a link to Nature’s Logic

And here’s Pet Kelp

[Michelle H]

I would like to see a review of this by Dog Food Advisor too!

My 13 year old Shih Tzu has allergies to a whole slew of things (chicken, turkey, sweet potato, potato, venison, beef, alfalfa, dust, ragweed pollen, grass, possibly lamb….ugh). This has made feeding her particularly challenging. We had resorted to buying ground raw quail or rabbit from a local “pet food deli”. But it is a 45 minute drive each way; which results in us choosing to buy a LOT of food and freezer storage for it. It also results in us adding supplements and “safe” veggies without knowing if we’re getting the ratios right, etc.

SO….I was pleasantly surprised when I saw Cocolicious Wild Caught Salmon & Pork by Party Animal. I bought a case from Chewy and she has been eating for about 2 weeks. She likes it (but she generally likes most food) and so far I don’t see any allergy reactions. (Hooray!)

How does one request a review from the editor?

[Jenn H]

Ah puppies & diarrhea. There’s a million causes.
Given that he’s been having to adjust to new environments in his short life I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that it’s just stress/excitement.
To help him symptomatically make sure the rice you give him is white rice. Brown can be more difficult to digest. When you make the rice save the water it’s boiled in and pour it over food and/or give it to drink.
Pumpkin is a great help in relieving diarrhea. 1 tsp/10 #s.
I have also had great luck with probiotics. An easy 1 to get a hold of is Nutri-vet Food Transition. It’s at Petco & comes in packets or tabs. It’s not expensive. Works great.
Then there’s my all time favorite thing and that’s raw goat milk.
When giving probios or goat milk wait 2 hrs before or 4 hrs after meals if on an antibiotic.
If you think he has a chicken allergy you can try giving him organic ground beef w/ the least amt of fat you can get. Boil it like you would the chicken.
I usually get i/d cans when my dogs need to be on a bland diet. It’s a prescription food. But it makes me feel better to add the rice, chicken/beef to supplement the food because then I know it’s balanced. This is obviously a diet that isn’t meant to be fed for too long. Especially with a growing pup.
Ask the vet to hold off on vaccines until his immune system isn’t busy fighting something else or he’s less stressed. Also I personally prefer to spread out vaccines at least 2 wks apart. I don’t do combos. (Except the parvo. It only comes that way.) It’s easier on the immune system and if there’s a reaction I can know which was the cause. And I only do the core vaxx. Understand that I am not an anti-vaxxer. Just not an over-vaxxer. It took me 30+ yrs of raising dogs and other animals to figure out that they don’t need a lot of the stuff we shoot them up with. And the difference between vaccinating and immunization. And what the shots do when an animal isn’t in optimal health at the time they receive them.
Sometimes dogs lick their paws because they have a fungus. That’s not always a sign of allergies. So if eliminating chicken doesn’t help, try looking into that.
Good luck with your new puppy. Congratulations!

[Jenn H]

Everything I have learned about diet for dogs w/ cancer is high protein, low carbs. Not the easiest foods to find and/or afford (if on a tight budget).
Whenever I’ve had dogs with cancer I head right to the integrated vet. He’s great at mixing & matching treatments, diets, supplements, etc using holistic (not necessarily homeopathic) and convential medicine. If you can find a good vet like that it’s worth a try.
Some vet hospitals also have nutritionists that do consults. For a fee of course.
I’m really into raw goat milk. Check out the Primal or Answers site for info on its benefits.
Good luck & good health to your dogs. I hope they all stay healthy & have long wonderful lives. I feel for you.

[C4D]

Hi Ruth Anne G,

You could try a different protein source other than chicken, there are many. At this point, before the vet check, anything that he will eat and stop the diarrhea is fine. He might have a chicken intolerance, but until the parasite check comes out clean, you just won’t know. Make sure that the vet sends it out to a lab, vs an inhouse fecal float. That’s the best way (and it still has it’s flaws) to find possible parasite infection. I’ve been through those before and it’s not pretty.

Caesar’s puppy is really not a great deal, there are many others that are priced the same or better with far better ingredients. Susan is absolutely right about the ingredients. Here are the ingredients I found on Caesar’s website. It actually contains an unidentified meat by product, chicken, and unidentified animal liver before the lamb, so it might be more stress diarrhea than chicken issue:

Ingredients: MEAT BY-PRODUCT, SUFFICIENT WATER FOR PROCESSING, CHICKEN, ANIMAL LIVER, LAMB, RICE, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCTS, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SODIUM TRIPOLYPHOSHPHATE, FISH OIL, CARRAGEENAN, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, DRIED YAM, ADDED COLOR, XANTHAN GUM, MAGNESIUM PROTEINATE, NATURAL FLAVOR, SALT, ERYTHORBIC ACID, DL-METHIONINE, GUAR GUM, SUGAR, ZINC SULFATE, VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, BIOTIN, POTASSIUM IODIDE, COPPER SULFATE, YELLOW #6, SODIUM NITRITE (FOR COLOR RETENTION), D-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, YELLOW #5, MANGANESE SULFATE, THIAMINE MONONITRATE (VITAMIN B1), VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT

Let us know how he does at the vet and we will be more than happy to help. I agree with Anonymously on possibly holding off on the vaccines until the diarrhea is contolled, but your vet can decide. I would personally give it a few days, but that’s IMO! 🙂

Red, kibble soaked in water is just kibble soaked in water. The only thing that’s similar with wet food is there is more water in it than dry kibble. It is still a highly processed product, even more processed than canned. The water is better than dry, but canned or fresh is still less processed and better than kibble.

[Shawna]

I do agree, at some points in the progression of an illness (especially a chronic one) we simply have to do what we have to do to keep the pup / person comfortable and symptoms manageable… 🙂

I forgot about the liver and kidney questions but did mean to respond to that. Thanks for the reminder…. I ABSOLUTELY WOULD recommend giving both liver and kidney but not as a whole food, especially not in later stages of kidney disease. Instead I would (and did) use therapeutic amounts of whole food supplemental liver and kidney — specifically Standard Process Canine Kidney Support and Standard Process Canine Hepatic Support. Both of these supplements will have a far greater overall impact than just feeding liver or kidneys. Both will act much more readily as an “oral tolerant” than the organ itself due to how the product is made (specifically the protomorphogens). 🙂 The supplements also have less phosphorus than the whole organ.

[C4D]

Hi Shawna,

Yes, you did give me some food for thought and more research! 🙂

I did go back and read that portion of the article again. She did say that it didn’t work for her dog. I did find articles stating that famotidine can cause inappetance in some. In my case it seemed to help and I used it on an “as needed” basis. We are going back over 4+ years when I was doing the initial research. My vet recommended the famotidine (when we were in the later stage) and I found it on many sites as well the dogaware site. I was using almost every natural supplement recommended on the dogaware site as well as both mirtazapine and b complex vitamins, alternately, to help increase appetite in the later stage. They did seem to work. This is another one of the dogaware links that include the use of famotidine:

http://dogaware.com/health/kidneynattie.html

I understand your point that it might only be masking the sypmtoms, but in the case of CKD in an older dog, I think it might be helpful, particularly if there would be nothing done otherwise. I’m aware of the peppermint oil and ginger extracts and agree that this is quite helpful. I did find that apple cider vinegar can be used, but it seems to have mixed results, depending on the problem, on some sites such as livestrong. I found that sodium bicarbonate could be added to the Sub-Q fluids to combat the acidosis, but this was on a more traditional kidney site (the merck manual).

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/urinary_system/noninfectious_diseases_of_the_urinary_system_in_small_animals/renal_dysfunction_in_small_animals.html

Since in the traditional sites they are mentioning the metabolic acidosis as part of the kidney problem, are they the holistic vets disagreeing with this? I understand your point that indigestion, not necessarily related to kidney disease, can be related to insufficient acid production.

On another note, what do you think of the OP’s recent question regarding giving liver and kidney a few times a week?

[Helen G]

Thank you. I went to my local dog store and asked about NutriSource. They didn’t have it in stock and I had just enough Fromm’s to begin transitioning him to something else. The owner recommended Nature’s Variety limited ingredient diet and he seems to be doing well with it…so far (still in the transition stages).
With regard to overfeeding, I followed the guidelines on the LBP Fromm’s bag and reduced it a bit because I supplement kibble with about an ounce of ground beef and an ounce of turkey for dinner. Vet thinks he looks healthy. We believe he might have had a grandparent that had some mastiff which might (if we’re right) explain his size. Is there another way to determine the proper amount of food?
I really appreciated your reply!
Thank you for your help.

[Vicky T]

P.S. He is not on any prescription food and wouldn’t eat it if he was
The vet did not recommend anything other than the sub q saline treatments.
When I asked him if there was any meds he could prescribe he said yes but that none would help that much, so we’re kind of on our own helping our little guy feel comfortable.

Prior to being diagnosed he was on a high quality grain free kibble (wetted with water) mixed with a grain free canned dog food but he started refusing to eat that so I’ve been feeding him people food like eggs, cottage cheese, canned salmon and mackerel, chicken and venison. He also likes cooked and raw carrots.
I have some dog probiotics I’ve been giving him and the supplement he’s on is:
Pet Wellbeing Kidney Support Gold…just something I found on the internet.

I will have to look into the homemade kidney disease diet ASAP.

[Jenn H]

I have no poblem with vegetarian diets for dogs (that are nutritionally balanced of course). I had a dog that couldn’t breakdown animal proteins. (If there were enzymes available for it then I would’ve given him that instead). He was a vegetarian. But still got his protein from eggs. Which is a food that has the highest biological value. Eventually it was realized that a lot of dogs were having difficulty with the most common meats in dog foods because of the sources & inbreeding of the animals, etc. He did fine with kangaroo & rabbit.
Anyway, vegetarian and vegan diet are NOT the same thing. Dogs have been close companions of humans for 45,000 yrs. You bet they have evolved. They are more omnivorous than ever and actually do best on a diet of plants, grains and MEATS. While they can adapt to a WELL-BALANCED vegan diet, they do best with a diet of animal fats & proteins.
Vegetarian & vegan diets require adding synthetic amino acids. Dogs cannot produce these very important elements themselves. Make sure none of that is sourced from China.
If you go to certain parts of the world you will see lots of dogs on the streets surviving on whatever they find. While that shows they can adapt, I wouldn’t exactly say they are thriving.
As for the dogs that have lived well into their 20s on vegan diets I don’t believe they aren’t getting appropriate proteins somewhere. I would bet they eat other animals. Mice, birds, whatever they hunt unknowingly to their people.
The cattle dog you mentioned admittedly wasn’t vegetarian. But I also have to say that I doubt Guiness followed that dog through its whole life. Who’s to say it was 29? Were they able to prove it by means other than a birth certificate? I couldn’t find any other means used to prove the ages of the oldest dogs. It appears they were (assuming their ages were real) the exceptions. Miracles really.
We all want our dogs to live as long as us with the best quality of life. Sometimes that means not anthropromorphizing them, doing/feeding things that are disgusting to us, but necessary to them. Or making difficult choices that will break our hearts, but will relieve them of pain. They are dogs. They are not humans. We have a great responsibility & are privileged to provide them with everything they depend on.
I only want what is best for anyone’s animals.
It is incredibly selfish to insist that your dog should be vegan because you are. Even if you supplement appropriately it isn’t the same as getting nutrients from the right food source. “Let your food be your medicine.”
I understand some dogs need to be vegetarians for health reasons. I have been there when other options weren’t available until later in his life. As soon as I discovered other choices I tried them. Because he was a dog. I didn’t love feeding him kangaroo or rabbit (we have rabbit pets. His best friend was a rabbit.) But he didn’t know he was eating cute animals. He only knew & cared that he was eating and not feeling bad afterward.
I should mention that I have only ever had GSDs my entire life. None of them that I raised developed arthritis or hd. Others I have adopted/fostered improved almost instantly once given an appropriate diet & exercise for that individual dog. Right now I have 3 dogs and 5 different foods because all of them need different things at the moment.
My point is just do what is best for the dog. Don’t push your beliefs on them. They don’t care. Feed them meat products. Even if it’s just eggs and raw goat milk. But make sure they get a balanced diet. If they live to be 20+ that’s awesome if they are healthy, happy, pain-free. If they live to be a happy & loved 10 year old without any suffering, then you’ve done your job.
Their time with us flies by. Enjoy them fully. Love them completely.

[Shawna]

Hi Courtney,

So sorry, I just now saw your reply to me!!

Yes, I believe Dori is quite satisfied with the support and dietary advice she received from Dr. Wynn. Dori is a raw feeder and feeds pre-made complete and balanced diets so I’m not exactly sure what involvement Dr. Wynn had. Maybe just consult versus diet formulation? I can ask Dori to comment.

A nutritionist, whether credentialed or not, holds no value to me if they don’t have a deeper understanding of how “healthy foods” (like canola oil) 🙂 can be damaging. I want someone willing to think outside the box versus someone to just spout out recipes that simply meet all the nutrient requirements. I’m not sure all the people I listed can do that but I have more faith in them then some others I’ve seen (especially Drs. Becker and Royal). The problem with this is that you might have to spend more on more supplements but, in my opinion, in the long run it pays off with better health. An example if needing canola for it’s Linoleic acid — hemp seed oil would be an alternative having 54 to 57% LA (Dr. Becker recommends hemp seed in her recipe book when feeding a beef diet). Another option, and my personal choice, would be pumpkin seed oil. It contains approximately 64% LA. In addition to that it is high in vitamin E and in chlorophyll which is quite health promoting. It’s likely that a source of Omega 3 would need to be added in higher amounts with these two than with canola but that is definitely doable for most.

There are nutritionists that can formulate a complete and balanced diet and then their are folks that can formulate a complete and balanced diet while doing so with foods that not only meet nutritional needs but also promote optimal health. But I’m sure you understand that as you are trying to get a more personalized, healthier diet. 🙂

I think this article written by a human dietitian explains the problem quite well
“A DIETITIAN’S TRAINING AND ROUTINE

Providing Medical Nutrition Therapy in a nursing home requires credentials as a registered dietitian with the American Dietetic Association’s (ADA) Commission on Dietetic Registration. Training is extensive. In most cases it requires a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college, an internship of nine months to a year working within a clinical setting, and passing a comprehensive exam.

During my clinical training as a dietitian, I was not taught holistic nutrition principles. I did not learn the benefits of herbs, or of the importance of whole foods, probiotics, enzymes, or organically grown foods to good health. I did not learn to use vitamin and mineral supplementation to overcome illness or disease. I did not understand that poor nutrition is probably the cause of most disease and poor health conditions in the first place. I had no idea that we require cholesterol and saturated fat to be well. I did not learn that the nutritional value of grass-fed beef was superior to grain-fed beef, or of the importance of iodine coupled with the avoidance of bromine for proper thyroid function, and so on.

I was taught we should eat less fat and more grain products. I was led to believe that pharmaceutical therapy was necessary and that nutrition made little or no impact in treating an already established condition. My continuing education hours were offered free by the pharmaceutical industry. During these classes I was taught about their “new and improved” Ensure and other products they were promoting.” – See more at: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/health-issues/a-dietitians-experience-in-the-nursing-home/#sthash.SWFcZ0Bo.dpuf

It’s often more about what you know than what (or even where) you were taught.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[Cathy F]

Hello

My son thinks nothing about spending £40-£50 on a 15kg-17kg sack top end dry food for is dogs. I have always feed my dogs pedigree chum. But since i was given one of my son’s dogs puppy’s it got me thinking about the nutrition and supplements more.

I’m feed up of reading reviews some saying the product is good only to read on another website the product is rubbish.

Budgeting between £15-£20 for a 15kg-17kg sack. What makes would fit into this area in regards getting the best quality ingredients for your buck?

Thanks

[M M]

@Olga, thank you for your detailed response! I already pressure cook big pots of beans and eat lots of vegetables so it should be pretty simple for me to get in the habit of putting the rest of it together in a big batch as you do. I will try the lentils, too! I already have most of these ingredients although most of the supplements (especially the Nupro, Green Mush, and DE) are new to me.

I agree that eating the carcass of a factory-farmed animal is not healthy. I also do not think processed food is healthy. I am a long-time vegetarian but bought into the “dogs need meat” dogma when we adopted our girl. Our vet swears that dogs don’t need or miss the meat (as if kibble even resembles meat), which is comforting as a lot of other folks clearly think I’m a dog abuser for feeding her veg food. I know of at least 7 other dogs who have done very well with the V-dog with or without home cooked supplement.

A few more questions (and I understand if you do not have time to answer all these):

How did you figure out how much to feed and the ratio of your ingredients? I am concerned I may accidentally under- or overdose on the calorie and protein/fat content.

Do you feed any kibble at all or just the home-cooked food? If so, what kind? As I said, ours loves her kibble but words cannot express how much our dog adores her beans and greens mix.

What kind of biscuits do you feed?

What brand of digestive enzymes/probiotic/prebiotic do you like?

Do you mash the food or just let it cook down in the stew? Our dog really does not chew unless I give her something long like an apple slice or carrot stick. She has a powerful jaw but her teeth seem to meet only in one place on each side due to her strong underbite. She has some rubber toys from Westpaw which she loves to chew and tug but her breath is pretty bad if I don’t add liquid chlorphyll to at least one of her meals.

Are there any veggies you know of that are off limits due to toxicity (e.g., raisins, onions, garlic)?

Thank you again for helping us to improve our dog’s diet. I am going to start using your method this weekend and have saved your post to make sure I explore all of the ideas you gave as seasons change.

[Olga M]

Since my buddies are big, and in the interest of time, I make a big pot of food and freeze it in daily portions. when I serve them, I include whatever fresh veggies I am having that day as well. I’ll give you a list of some of the ingredients that I use.

For protein – lentils, chickpeas, and black or red beans.
Grains – quinoa, whole oats, brown rice, and barley. However, I don’t add them all the time.
Veggies – pumpkin, sweet potato, carrot, zucchini, squash, peas, green beans, kelp, kale, spinach, broccoli, cauliflower.
Fruits – apple, blueberries, coconut, mango and watermelon.
Herbs – lemongrass (my dogs will graze on it), oregano, turmeric and parsley.
Oils – Coconut, safflower, flax
Supplements – Nupro joint and immunity support, Nutritional yeast, Green Mush (Green Mush and kelp is supposed to be easily absorbable and contains thousands of phytonutrients, protein, and amino acids), L-Canitine, food grade diatomaceous earth, and digestive enzymes (prebiotics and probiotics)

I cook in a big pot of water whatever beans I am using. I use lentils a lot because they love them. If I am using a grain, I’ll add it also. Once they are soft, I add the chopped harder vegetables like the pumpkin, sweet potato, etc. Once they are softened, I add the shredded softer vegetables, e.g., zucchini, kelp, yellow squash, peas, peeled apples, etc. I cook that for a few minutes, then take the pot off the stove and add the chopped leafy greens, 1 clove of finely minced garlic, oregano, lemongrass, and turmeric. I have a garden, so the herbs and many of the vegetables are fresh picked.

I cool down the food by adding ice before adding the oils and supplements.
I add coconut, safflower and flax oil; some Nupro, nutritional yeast, diatomaceous earth, and green mush. The digestive enzymes I sprinkle on their food when I serve them. Occasionally, I’ll ad a capsule of L-Carnitine in their bowl when I serve their food.

I make enough for at least 6 days, and most of the things they eat (except for the Nupro), I also eat. They devour the veggie stew I make, although the Mastiff will eat anything that is not tied down. LOL

It is my belief that eating the carcass of an animal that has been tortured in captivity their entire life, is not healthy for anyone. Also, the food you make will be healthier than any packaged food, and you can always start by adding some of your food to the kibble. Remember though, that if you are giving them soft food to give them things to chew to keep their pearly whites in good shape. Mine love biscuits, balls, toys, antlers, tug ropes, etc.

Thanks for asking about vegetarian food for dogs, I was beginning to think that I had grown a third eye.

[M M]

@Olga, what did/do you feed your vegetarian dog? Do you give any vitamin or taurine supplement?

We use V-dog kibble and she adores it enough for us to use it as training treats, but she goes NUTS over blended beans and broccoli so I would like to home cook for her more. Our dog cannot have milk due to food allergies, but she just loves all the veggies and low-sugar fruits she can get.

I will likely check out a new cookbook called Healthy Happy Pooch with recipes for home-cooked meals, but I would also love to hear what someone with your experience feeds your dogs as you clearly have had great results. We’re happy V-dog exists, but processed kibble in any form doesn’t strike me as an ideal long-term diet.

Thank you for sharing your story. Our dog is thriving on her veggie diet (vet and staff always remark how nice it is to see a healthy dog of her breed), but it has been only a year.

[Dawn A]

Hello!
I am pretty new to raw feeding, and although I have done (what seems like) extensive research on the topic, I still have a few questions. Our pup is 12 weeks this Saturday and we started him on raw at 6 weeks. We tried a handful of proteins including chicken, beef, pork and turkey, as well as eggs and goat’s milk to begin with, although the last two we only fed a few times before finding that it tended to result in runny stools. More recently we have been feeding about 18-20oz. per day of chicken (we took a whole chicken and quartered I, partitioning it into daily allotments that we freeze immediately, then partially thaw before feeding) and occasional liver, gizzards and hearts and all has been well…until about two days ago. He’s not acting sick (so much energy!) and eats with gusto, but his stools are getting looser. He will have one solid in the morning, then the rest will be runny to completely liquid. Among possible solutions I have read are removing the skin (we haven’t yet, but will be trying that over the next couple of days) and adding more bone (currently we are supplementing with extra chicken breast meat, but are considering legs instead for the bone…plus he loves them!). Any ideas or feedback would be great! Thank you in advance!

[Shawna]

Hi Vicky T,

My Chihuahua mix had kidney disease from birth and lived to just shy of nine years of age. The most important thing I can say about kidney disease is DON’T feed a kibble diet — even prescription kibble. If you want to stick with prescription, Science Diet has some nice canned products that they recently came out with. One is beef based and the other is chicken based. If you are interested in feeding homemade, Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart has a nice recipe on her blog page. Dr. Smart gives a recipe for “early to moderate” and for “late stage” kidney disease. http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

Many, if not most, vets have not yet heard about (or understand if they did hear) the importance of probiotics and certain prebiotics (aka fermentable fibers) for kidney patients. These two supplements help to re-route BUN from the dog’s blood to the colon. This helps pup feel better and allows for a bit higher protein diet. The Merck Vet Manual has a nice blurb about it if your or your vet might be interested. They write “In addition, feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

The fermentable fiber I found to be the most helpful with my Audrey was a human product called “Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber”. It is no longer made but the fiber used, acacia fiber, is also sold by NOW brand. The probiotic I used is also a human product called “Garden of Life Primal Defense”. I gave the products together with Audrey’s meal whenever she seemed depressed, down or not feeling well. Audrey at a HIGH protein diet her whole except the last couple months and then I added some canned KD to her diet.

If Audrey had symptoms of nausea (which was rare until the very end) I would add a drop or two of peppermint essential oil (therapeutic grade only) or ginger extract (from health food store). Now vet Dr. Melissa Shelton has a line of essential oils for animals that are wonderful. I tried her GI Goe product when I had eaten something that wasn’t agreeing with me and it helped TREMENDOUSLY.. I put a dot of the oil on my finger and rubbed it on my tongue. Helped almost immediately.

Having a purified source of high quality drinking water always available is a great idea. Also giving Evian (or another high calcium, lower sodium mineral water) has been shown to help kd patients too.

The one supplement that I gave my Audrey from the day of diagnosis to the day she passed was Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a whole food supplement that can help prevent damage to the kidneys from inflammation. I HIGHLY recommend it.

I also really really like Answer’s Raw Goat Milk for kd dogs. It can often be found in pet boutique stores.

I found my local vets (two regular vets and one holistic vet (that I otherwise LOVE)) to be almost useless when it came to diet (or anything else natural that could be helpful with kidney disease).. I hope your vet is much more helpful!!!

Do take a look at the link that C4D posted (dogaware). That site was HUGELY helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what to do with Audrey right after diagnosis.

Good luck to you and thanks to C4D for the kind words!!!!

[C4D]

Hi Vicky T,

I have been through this with one of my older dogs a few years ago. I strongly recommend you ask your vet about the BalanceIt website. They can create a homemade recipe for you based on your dog’s kidney (bun/creatinine) levels. There are also a couple of very good sites which I found very helpful in dealing with CRF. One is dogaware which has a ton of information regarding diet and supplements. Here’s the link:

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html

Another helpful site is a bit older but still loaded with information. It’s on Facebook and is called CRF Dogs. It’s exact name on FB is: CRF Dogs (Chronic Renal / Kidney Failure). for some reason, disqus never links the FB pages. Both sites are loaded with homemade diets that worked well for my dog. He was in CRF for almost a year and was not the ulitmate reason we had to put him down.

Wet food is the best thing you can do and the key is not necessarily to restrict protein, but to bind the phosphorus. You would do this with calcium and do this in various ways. Epakitin is a nutritional supplement that helps to bind the phosphorus. You can check with your vet on dosage. My vet gave me some to try. There are also many foods listed on those sites that are moderate in phosphorus levels. Green Tripe (without added minerals and vitamins) and cooked egg white are 2 proteins that are kidney friendly.

The subQ’s are essential to keep the kidney flushed from toxins. You may also need to use famotidine (generic Pepcid AC) to help with the acid that occurs and causes nausea as the disease progresses. Again, your vet should be able to help you with all of this information. Shawna is a frequent poster that has a lot more experience in dealing with Kidney Failure in a young dog, but has a wealth of information.

Good Luck!

[anonymously]

The sub q fluids every day or every other day treatments are similar to dialysis, regarding what they accomplish. What does that tell you. Keep him comfortable for as long as you can, but be realistic. I would not give him supplements or make any diet changes to the prescription food, unless a vet that has examined him approves.

[Vicky T]

Our 15 year old Chihuahua was recently diagnosed with mid stage kidney failure. Obviously he’s an old dog but he’s still eating and happy. As long as his quality of life is good we will treat him. Its been 2 weeks since his diagnosis and he has perked after being on antibiotics (incase he had an infection) and we have been giving him 350 ml saline solution sub q daily, now cut back to every other day which we will have to give him indefinitely. We are also giving him a natural supplement product for dogs with kidney failure. If anybody here has been through this with your dog any advise appreciated.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Tom-
Sorry to hear about the troubles with your pup. My dogs also have struggled with sensitive stomachs. Have you tried any digestive supplements at all? I’ve used Gastriplex by Thorne, Vetri-Pro BD by Vetri-Science, Perfect Form by The Honest Kitchen. I think Perfect Form is the best, but it does have a strong odor which may turn off your dog. You can read about these and other issues at http://www.dogaware.com and click on the digestive disorders tab. I have had the best luck with Victor and Whole Earth Farms kibble. I also add a little commercial frozen raw, tripe or egg to their meals to bump up the nutritional value with no digestive upset.

I agree with Susan, that you might want to explore a different brand of Rx food such as, Royal Canin if you want to continue with that route. Good luck!

[anonymously]

I would talk to your vet about postponing any further vaccinations at this time.
http://www.thedogplace.org/VACCINES/Rabies-exemption-form-states-2012.asp
Note: The labels on rabies vaccines state that they are for “the vaccination of healthy cats, dogs…” There are medical conditions for which vaccination can jeopardize the life or well-being of an animal.

I would also reevaluate what you are using for flea/tick and heartworm prevention, for obvious reasons. When did the pruritus start?

I would keep her diet simple. No supplements or over the counter meds that have not been recommended by a veterinarian that has examined her.

If it was my dog, I would make an appointment with a dermatologist.
The best choice would be to see a board-certified veterinary dermatologist, if one is available near you (here is a list: http://www.acvd.org/).

Per the search engine here /forums/search/allergies/

[Sam D]

Hi, All –
My sweet pup has been diagnosed with severe left hip dysplasia and mild right hip dysplasia. We passed on the option for a triple pelvic osteotomy as when he was diagnosed we had about 2 weeks until he was considered too old for it, and even then, they would have only done it on his right hip as the left was too far gone.

We’ve opted for rehab and medical intervention over surgical at this time, knowing that in the future, he will have to have a total hip replacement. Hopefully we can put that off for a few more years.

My question is about food. He currently gets a rotation of Instinct Raw, Acana Pacifica (salmon) and Honest Kitchen. We are giving him supplements like Welactin fish oil and Dasuquin (glucosamine chondroitin w/ MSM)

Anyone here have a dog with hip/joint issues? What have you used? What has helped?

[anonymously]

I reread your post, I only suggested looking up allergies because I thought you implied your dog had them…..when you mentioned an otc allergy med.

I would refrain from giving this dog any supplements or over the counter meds unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined him.
It really sounds like his problems are related to an injury he may have obtained during that accident, especially if that is when his symptoms started.
It’s important to get him examined and diagnosed by a vet, he sounds uncomfortable, some dogs are stoic and try to hide it when they are in pain.

[C4D]

Crystal C,

You really do need to take the dog to a vet ASAP!!! Gulping and crazy eyes sounds like he might be choking or gulping for air!!! It sounds like he might have a damaged trachea. This could result in some serious problems including difficulty breathing and swallowing. This is definitely a situation that needs a vet diagnosis rather than supplements, especially since it started after an incident involving injury. Please rule out any medical problems!

[DogFoodie]

An excerpt from “Fats Chance,” written by Steve Brown in the December of 2012 issue of Whole Dog Journal; and what I think is one of the best articles that discusses fats, rancidity, and supplementing with Omegas:

“I think the best choice is to feed naturally preserved foods that meet freshness guidelines (described in detail below) and that do not contain fish, fish oil, or DHA; then add fresh, high-quality fish or krill oils or sardines yourself.”

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html

Coconut oil is neither an Omega 3 nor an Omega 6 fat, it’s a medium chain trigylceride.

[C4D]

Hi Kevin R,

I give my dogs both coconut oil and fish oil. Fish oil is the common source of Omega 3, Poultry and eggs are a common source of Omega 6 and Coconut oil is a common source of medium chain fatty acids. They all have a useful purpose in the diet. I use fish oil to supplement my arthritic dog (but the others get some too) as it’s an anti-inflammatory, along with all of the other great properties.

Here are some links to help explain all of the various Omegas:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/85285-coconut-oil-omega3/

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_9/features/Fish-Oil-Supplements-For-Dogs_20600-1.html

http://www.dogaware.com/articles/suppsoils.html

Red is correct regarding kibble. The long storage and oxydation after opening the bag are likely to destroy the EPA & DHA in the fish oil in dry dog food.

[anonymously]

I seriously hope you will take your dog to the vet as soon as possible, he may have obtained some type of internal injury due to the accident you described, that only an x-ray would reveal.
I think it would be money well spent, rather than buying supplements and over the counter meds (not prescribed by a vet) that may not help and may cause more harm.
And trying various different brands of food, his issues may have nothing to do with the food.
Use the search engine here, look up allergies. I would trust a vet that has examined my dog. My dogs enjoy going to the vet.
Best of luck.

[InkedMarie]

Shipping should be free. Chewy, PetFlow and Wag all offer free shipping with a minimal purchase. All carry all kinds of dog related items as well (supplements, toys, chews etc) in case you’re a little short. Chewy is my first recommendation because they have the best return policy and excellent customer service.

Foods I like are Farmina, Dr Tim’s, Annamaet, Nature’s Logic. You’ll have to check out ingredients.

[InkedMarie]

I’ve tried a number of supplements etc and the only thing that works is picking it up when they go. I’d do this even one didn’;t eat it; how else do you see possible works, diarrhea, white stool (for us raw feeders) if you don’t pick up?

[SaltiDawg]

Jeffry S,

Supplements to deter your dog from eating other critters’ poop?

How do you get the deer and the neighbor’s cats to eat the supplement?

[Jeffrey S]

As far as I know, my puppy (six-month-old Pyrenees mix) doesn’t eat his own, but is anxious to eat just about any other kind of poop he encounters, including that of other dogs. Anyone have success with supplements or other methods?

[anonymously]

The only thing that worked for my dogs that had developed this nasty habit was to follow them around, when they had a bowel movement, scoop/discard immediately.
Out of sight, out of mind. After a while they stop turning around to look for it, lol.

Also, if you are feeding 1 or 2 measured meals per day, you will learn the dog’s pattern and will be able to predict when he will have a bowel movement and avoid surprise eliminations.
In other words don’t free feed, and don’t give them the opportunity to be alone with their feces. Some dogs outgrow it, but often it is something you will always have to keep a eye on.
I have never tried any supplements for coprophagia, the price deterred me and the fact that they look like chemical junk? Also, you would have to give them to every dog in your household, plus I have heard that they don’t work.

PS: Has the vet ruled out medical issues? Good article here : http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/coprophagia-eating-feces (excerpt below)
Medical Problems to Rule Out
Starvation, Malnutrition or Malabsorption Disorders
If your dog isn’t getting sufficient food or isn’t able to digest the nutrition in his food, he may resort to coprophagia as a way to supplement his diet. Before doing anything else, it’s important to have your dog thoroughly examined by a veterinarian to rule out medical problems that could cause coprophagia.

[Jeffrey S]

Anyone tried supplements for preventing a dog from eating poop? Any of them work? I’ve read that organ meats help, and there are freeze-dried supplements offered. Also, I’ve read that certain enzymes help. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Kevin R:
I recently downloaded a book of home cooked recipes by Susan Lauten, PhD. It includes grain inclusive and grain free adult maintenance recipes using human vitamins that are fully balanced to AAFCO requirements and NRC recommendations.

She lists the sites where you can purchase the vitamins. Some I have purchased from drug or health food stores in the past. I made one recipe to use as an unbalanced topper to try out since I don’t have the supplements on hand. My dog enjoyed it very much. There are also a few treat recipes included:
http://petnutritionconsulting.com/susan-lauten-phd/
http://backtobasicspetcare.com/

I currently use Balance IT Carnivore blend for making a few balanced home cooked meals per week. Their site has a free recipe generator and the fresh foods can easily be found at your grocery store. Very simple directions and easy to make:
https://secure.balanceit.com/index.php

[Ptcbass]

Wow, I went to lunch and come back to lots of great info. Yes Shawna I also believe food is medicine. I went 2 years without healthcare and have successfully treated health issues with health food and supplements (Ginger, turmeric, cinnamon and ginseng).

Anonymously – The prednisone come weeks before and then tiny stones were present (small enough to pass). Then she was on the prescription food for one week and developed acute pancreatitis. That is what killed her. The prednisone I am sure didn’t help her immune system and have read it can cause stones and isn’t good for the pancreas. Just a horrible situation all the way around and especially knowing that if I didn’t take her to the vet at all and just kept treating her myself with “healthy” stuff then she would more than likely still be with me today.

My other dog is a little over weight and gains easily. She is 9 years old, has a history of crystals and UTI’s and has a short nose and has trouble breathing sometimes so I can’t exercise her like I would like to. She is still otherwise healthy and still likes to play (what time she isn’t eating or sleeping LOL!).

I am looking into
Horizon Amicus Small & Mini Breed Senior & Weight Management Grain-Free Dry Dog Food and Annamaet Grain-Free Lean Low Fat Formula Dry Dog Food.

I like the Natures Logic but it isn’t grain free and has higher fat content (except for the fish). The calories are still ok thought which I really don’t get but have moved on.

Thanks again! This has been super hard and have never had to experience anything like this with any of my dogs in the past. Also, in the same week my mother in law had a stroke. Now I just want to help get her healthy and do what I can for my other furbaby.
Thanks for the support here!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Ptcbass.

[Debra F]

I am beginning to think my two-year-old black lab pit mix has a potato allergy. She has one ear that gets very dirty and smelly. She has been on Back to Basics Lamb and Potato as her main dry food (I supplement with other flavors). As we all know by now B2B is going to stop producing dog food by the end of the year so I have been researching other quality, limited ingredient foods. It is nearly impossible to find a dry food that does not contain potatoes.

Additionally, I believe she has a problem with berries. When we first got her we put her on Blue Wilderness grain-free which contained berries. She had very back digestive problems so we then switched her to B2B.

Has anyone had issues with both potatoes and berries? I am not putting my dogs on a raw diet so please do not suggest this.

Thanks!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Bethany-

Here is a link that I use when my dogs’ have digestive upset:

http://www.dogaware.com/health/digestive.html#diarrhea

I mentioned some supplements that I used to heal tummies earlier that I learned about on this site. I find that pro-pectalin works really well for diarrhea. But, I want to caution you that if your new dog does have parasites or worms that are causing the diarrhea, stopping them from pooping is not good for them. They need to get rid of the “bugs”.

However, I’m sure it also has a lot to do with not eating properly for a month and the dog food is new to him upsetting the tummy.

BD mentioned Eagle Pack above. I have fed that as well and had good results. It is just not as available in my area and I forget about it.

Have you had any progress yet?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Bethany-
I regularly feed my male golden labs Victor kibble. I have fed both the grain free joint health and the healthy weight formula. I think it is one of the best values you can buy. And…my dogs breath do not stink! I also rotate with Whole Earth Farms kibble with various toppers.

My dogs had a rough start due to multiple bouts of giardia and coccidia and have sensitive stomachs now. They do well with these foods. I have used Perfect Form, Gastriplex and Vetri-Pro BD supplements to help heal their tummies.

I’m sure glad you are rescuing that poor pup. Good luck!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by crazy4cats.

[corgwnmom]

Actually, ActiFlex 4000 sounds like a really good one. I like that it has Glucosamine SULFATE vs. HCI. Did you end up using this product and what are your thoughts on it? I have a corgi so I would image he would need about 1/2tsp for the first week and then 1/4tsp following. He tore his ACL and will be having surgery this week so I am looking for joint supplements other than the Dasuquin given by the vet.

Any advice is appreciated!

[corgwnmom]

Did you ever find an answer to this? I’m curious about different supplements (glucosamin/MSM/Chondroitin). One of my corgis will be having surgery on his ACL this week.