[Jo D]

Hi all,
I have 3 Minaiture Schnauzers, all of whom are rescues. One of them, Bandit, was rescued from a local shelter in 2012. He was an owner surrender, and the shelter was told that he was about 10 years old. So, we’re presuming his age now as of November 2015, is about 13-1/2 years old. In October, 2015, he was diagnosed with Oral Melanosarcoma. A small mass was removed from his upper left gum, and as of now, it does not appear to have metastasized past his gum. In June of 2012, He was also diagnosed with having Struvite bladder stones, and has been on the Royal Canin SO diet (dry) ever since that time. I have opted not to do any type of treatments on him (radiation, surgery, etc) for the cancer, but I do want to put him on some type of “cancer diet”. I have been searching the internet, and haven’t really come up with anything that I can try on him (and even my other 2 Miniature Schnauzers) that would work for him since he also has bladder stones. Does anyone know of a good diet to try on Bandit? Of course, my vet, and even the oncologist, said to just keep him on the SO, but I have a feeling that might be part of what has caused his cancer in the first place. Any advice would be appreciated!

[Susan]

Hi Jo, don’t keep him on any kibble if they have cancer or had cancer, too many carbs in a kibble, he needs a well balanced high fat, high protein diet, low in carbs under 25% carbs..
With Bandit Struvite Crystals did he have an Ultra Scan to see that they have all dissolved & gone? My boy also a rescue was put on Royal Canine S/O Urinary wet tin & kibble, kibble for breakfast & wet in for dinner, just for 6 weeks to dissolve the crystal then he had Ultra Scan & all his crystal were gone, vet said stop feeding the Royal Canine S/O & feed a healthy diet..

[Jo D]

Hi Susan,
He had surgery in 2012 (just after we adopted him) to have the bladder stones removed, but we just discovered last month that he has them again. Not as bad as in 2012, but they are definitely back. Can the stones even be dissolved? I’m going crazy trying to figure out a diet for him since he has cancer AND stones! ugh!!

[anonymously]

Did you check the search engine here, example: /forums/search/bladder+stones/ See some of my posts.

[Jenn H]

Everything I have learned about diet for dogs w/ cancer is high protein, low carbs. Not the easiest foods to find and/or afford (if on a tight budget).
Whenever I’ve had dogs with cancer I head right to the integrated vet. He’s great at mixing & matching treatments, diets, supplements, etc using holistic (not necessarily homeopathic) and convential medicine. If you can find a good vet like that it’s worth a try.
Some vet hospitals also have nutritionists that do consults. For a fee of course.
I’m really into raw goat milk. Check out the Primal or Answers site for info on its benefits.
Good luck & good health to your dogs. I hope they all stay healthy & have long wonderful lives. I feel for you.

[Susan]

Hi Jo, was Bandit on the Royal Canine S/O since 2012 after he had the first lot of Struvite Crystals removed???
Patches Struvite Crystals all dissolved when he ate the Royal Canine S/O Urinary wet & dry for just 6 weeks…….there must be something in the Royal Canine S/O Urinary kibble & wet tin food that breaks down the crystals & they wee the broken down crystals out…. I never kept Patch on the Royal Canine S/O Urinary after his crystals were dissolved…
I would feed the Royal Canine S/O wet tin food instead of the kibble for 6 weeks & that will dissolve the crystals he has then try & find a healthier diet for Bandit…..there are
healthier diets then the Royal Canine S/O vet diet….. Have you thought of contacting an Nutritionist to prepare a diet for Bandit? normally the Oncologist refers you to a Nutritionist….

[Jo D]

I’m going to see if there are any vets in my area who specialize in diets specific for certain conditions (holistic, whatever), to see if they can help. I talked to my vet again today, and she really couldn’t offer me any good info.

[Jo D]

I first need to clarify, that he actually was diagnosed with calcium oxalate stones, and NOT struvite stones. But yes, he has been on the Royal Canin SO ever since his surgery in 2012. I have started him on the canned SO, to go along with some of the dry SO for now, until I can figure out what to do. If he had the stones, and not the cancer, or if he had cancer and not the stones, this wouldn’t be such a difficult issue to handle. The problem is, I can feed him a great diet for the cancer, but end up making his bladder stones worse. The oncologist did not refer me to a nutritionist. Actually, none of the vets I’ve seen for Bandit have said anything about a nutritionist.

[anonymously]

I would focus on bladder stone prevention, from what you have said the cancer issues are in remission. Continue with the prescription diet and ask your vet if you can add something tasty to it. Best of luck.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jo D-
The RC S/O diet should only be prescribed for struvite crystals. It helps acidify his urine which helps dissolve the crystals. If he has calcium oxalate crystals, he would need a diet that makes the urine more alkaline to help stop the formation of anymore. My understanding is that they cannot be dissolved, but may be able to flushed out with a lot of moisture added to the diet.

You have your hands full. Good luck!

Edit: I’m sorry, I think I may be incorrect about the RC s/o. It actually may be for both struvite and oxalate crystals. I’ts the Hill’s c/d that acidifies the urine. I think the s/o neutralizes the ph levels and salt is added to promote thirst encouraging the dog to drink more and flush the crystals out. Either way, it is best to add as much moisture to your dog’s diet to rid of either type of crystal.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by crazy4cats.

[anonymously]

If the dog has not had a recurrence of bladder stones since 2012, he is doing very well. Whatever treatment he is getting appears to be working, diet and all. Continue to work with your vet.
Of course, water, water and more water added to the diet, frequent bathroom breaks help, big time.

[Jo D]

I’m getting him to drink more water, and have also ordered a self-watering/purifying system for him too, since he seems to like to drink water more if it’s coming out of a faucet.

To clarify: He had surgery for stones in 2012, but it was discovered last month that he has stones again. Also, his cancer is not in remission. He was diagnosed with cancer last month as well, and we have opted not to do any traditional treatments on him, such as surgery, radiation, etc. That’s why I was looking for a good diet that would help boost his immune system to fight against the cancer, yet not upset his bladder stones.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Jo D:
Perhaps discuss with your Vet(s) that you would like to consult with a Vet nutritionist. They may have one to recommend that they work with.

ACVN directory:
http://www.acvn.org/directory/

Here are some nutrition services from various Vet schools:
http://www.aavn.org/nutrition-resources.pml

Here’s some info from the U of M Urolith Center that may be helpful:
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/depts/minnesotaurolithcenter/recommendations/home.html

[Susan]

Hi are you on face Book there’s a group called ” Canine Nutrition and Natural Health” run by Cat Lane, she is a Canine Nutritionist & Chartered Herbalist, if you join her F/B group, post a post asking for HELP & she normally will suggest a few things to feed & where to start , she does consults over the phone & emails, I think the email consults are cheaper…. Cat Lane has a web page as well with helpful information called http://www.thepossiblecanine.com

Start feeding healthy foods, no more kibble, cancer loves sugar carbs & processed proteins, also look at what treats your giving… feed healthy foods that fight cancer….. Curcumin has been scientifically proven to fight cancer. Probiotics are also the key as studies show that these beneficial bacteria exhibit anticancer activity…. here’s the link… http://www.dogster.com/lifestlye/dog-cancer-treatment

[Jenn H]

I just read something today from Dr. Becker regarding Royal Canin and the ingredient changes since being sold to Mars.
The article she sites is a couple yrs old, but it’s likely relevant still. It’s so disappointing the quality of the brand seems to have plummeted. While it doesn’t appear that S/O has the following ingredients, I think anyone feeding RC will want to be on high alert to possible changes.
They now include in their recipe:
-hydrolyzed poultry by-products aggregate (feather meal)
-soy
-worm meal
Always check new bags/can of Royal Canin before feeding in case that particular recipe has been made with the new ingredients.

[Jo D]

Thanks everyone for all of the great info! I will certainly check out all of the links you all have shared. I will also check out the ingredients in S/O now. That just sounds awful!!

[Jenn H]

Don’t panic. I don’t think the awful ingredients are in S/O. Just want you to be aware there may be changes and to check each new bag.

[Author]

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