[CockalierMom]

I guess it’s an acquired taste like buttermilk (my brother does not like the plain either). In my older years now, I prefer tangy and tart. I have tried the strawberry, blueberry, and peach. The strawberry also has quite a tang so not sure if you would like it, The blueberry and peach are not quite so tangy-my store does not carry any of the other flavors.

[weezerweeks]

Cockaliermom this is the kefir I also use. My yorkie loves it but how in the world do you drink it. I tried it and it taste horrible. I probably could drink the strawberry but I give him the plain.

[Lisa R]

I have a Chi, 10 yrs old who was diagnosed with Cushings in May. On Vetoryl. Symptoms of excessive water drinking and peeing continued, as well as a large appetite. I read that dry food is the worst food for Cushings dogs so I switched to a raw food which was highly recommended. He wouldn’t eat it raw, so I cooked it. He loved it for months and I saw his symptoms subside – he can sleep through the night and not have to go out to pee – most nights. Unfortunately, now won’t touch the cooked raw. So I’m looking for the next best thing. I’m going to look at Dr Judy’s site – thanks Susan. And I’m excited to see there’s a Cushing’s FB group! I need help.

[jen N]

I have been giving my pet probiotics, I mix it with coconut oil. Personally I prefer a homeopathic and natural approach to my own health and try and do the same for my chow/retriever. We haven’t had any issues. I don’t see why there would be a drawback.

[aimee]

Hi Joseph,
When I was a teen I saw a dog choke to death on a large bone. As an adult my friend’s dog suffered a serious abdomen infection because a raw bone shard penetrated the intestine. As Susan said it is normal for dogs to gulp their food but note she also said she doesn’t give her dog certain things because she recognizes it as not safe.

You’ll have to decide what your comfort level is. Death from bone is natural but not what I’d choose for my dog.

[Susan]

Hi Cody,
start doing your own research so your puppy has a good start to her life, follow “Rodney Habib” on his facebook page https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib & watch his new free 5 part video’s “The Truth About Pet Cancer” scroll down Rodney’s F/B page & find Episode 2 & 3 & WATCH these episoes PLEASE so your pup has the best start to her life, also feed 4 smaller meals a day “Canidae” has their All Life Stages, Large Breed Puppy Duck Meal formula, or Turkey Meal Brown rice Wet & Dry formula’s.
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products scroll down a bit look to your right for
“View All” then click on Pages 5 & 9 for Large Breed Puppy Forumla’s & later when your pup is 6 months old start adding fresh healthy foods to her diet & rotate between different kibble brands so she isnt eating the same food 24/7, Pitbulls Staffys are prone to food sensitivities & skin allergies so get her use to a variety of foods & this strengthen her Immune System, just make sure if she is going to be fed a dry kibble her whole life you rotate kibbles but after watching Rodney Habib video’s Im pretty sure you’ll be looking for healthier food instead of feeding dry processed kibble, I only feed dry Kibble cause my boy didn’t have the best start in his life & now has IBD & cant eat a raw/cooked diet..

[jodi s]

thank you guys so much for posting about these chews. I thought it was too good to be true. OMG I am a mess my dog ate one this a.m. we never ever feed rawhide. I paid $8.50 for a 4 inch one. I bought 8 of them thinking they were great. I thought it seemed weird too that they were so hard if they used only gelatin, etc. Is there anything we/I can do re: the company. How can they get away with this 🙁 thanks

[Susan]

Hi
Atlas & Cockalier Mom as well,

I follow “Rodney Habib” https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib on his face book page, Dr Karen Becker & Rodney have been traveling all over the world speaking & interviewing Dr’s Vets, Scientists etc like Dr Steve Marsden, Dr Marty Goldstein, Dr Jean Dobbs, Dr Richard Patton, Dr John Robb, Dr Ian Billinghurst, Dr Gregory Ogilive, DR Karen Becker, Dr Erin Bannink, Dr Joseph Mercola, Dr Tim Spector & many more & Rodney & Ty Bollinger have put together a 5 part video’s free so we all can learn how to have a healthy dog the way nature intended them to be, click on Rodneys link above then scroll down his page & look for “The Truth About Pet Cancer” Episode 2, “Hidden Hazards & Causes” get a cuppa sit back & watch, then watch Episode 3 Raw Diet vs Kibble, Episode 4 “Heal & Repair” has just been put on Rodneys F/B page.
“Steve Brown” is also good to follow when it comes to healthy feeding & what to add to your dogs diet, when Steve Brown was asked, if he had to add just 1 ingredient what would he add to balance the diet & he said “Mussels” they’re cheap & very healthy, Mussels have Manganese, Iodine, Fats, Vitamin D, EPA, DHA, Glucosamine, Chondrotoitin get some Freezed Dried Green Lipped Mussels I buy “K-9 Natural” New Zealand Brand, Patch gets 2 Mussels a day around 11am, yes he does do a few smelly farts after he eats te Mussels but so far pooo’s have stayed the same firm & I know Mussels are very healthy for his skin, coat & his joints, he’s nilly 9yrs old in Novemeber, Steve also said to add 1 spoon of Salmon & a pinch of kelp to their diets….
Dr John Robb & Jean Dobbs are really good Dr’s watch their interviews about Vaccinations in “The Truth About Cancer” Episode 2, we all want answers why are our pets dying so young from cancer & other diseases, back 20-30 yrs ago this wasn’t happening cause we weren’t putting all these flea tick poisons on or in their bodies or feeding dry processed kibble, we feed table scaps what we ate, we didn’t over vaccinate, I only remember my mum going to the old drunk vet up the road when the cats needed desexing or putting down, she’s carried them in small round leather bag & bring them back & burry them in the back yard.
When watching these video’s get a writing pad to jot things down quickly, in Episode 3 when Ty Bollinger who is also doing these Episode with Rodney Ty talks about what he uses for Flea products, after watching this section of the video you will think twice before using any poison flea products, Ty said he gets “Orange Oil”, “Lemon Oil” & “Grapefruit Oil” he gets a little 99c spray bottle adds a few squirts of all 3 oils then add some water shakes & spray Atlas for Fleas & Ticks instead of giving him any poison flea products, Mike Adams said he uses “Cedar Oil” for fleas & Ticks especially if your dogs swims, the Cedar Oil doesn’t wash off, Dr Eward Group uses “Diatomaseous Earth” for worms & heartworm adds once a week to 1 of the meals “do NOT give him any of these new Flea Chews or tablets” they change the dogs blood, so think about it a tick has just bitten your dog & the Tick dies straight away, this poison is in their blood running & pumping thru their body going thru our dogs organs now that wouldn’t be healthy for the dogs. Bravecto should be taken off the shelves its the worst flean product & cause its new we dont have any real research yet about long term side effects, the Poisons in Bravecto stays in a dogs body heaps longer then the 3 months it states on Bravecto, vets have taken blood tests from very sick dog after they had been given Barvecto Chew & became very ill & 9mths later these sick dogs still had the poisons that are in Bravecto still in their system…
There’s not much research when it comes to our dogs & cats especially food & diet, most of the research is done by the big companies like Hills but in Australia our vets & some of our pet food companies tell us pet owners if you feed kibble also add raw meaty bones to the dogs or cats diet at least once or twice a week, we have one brand kibble called “Stay Loyal” made by brothers & they tells their customers to fast your dog 1 day a week Sunday & feed raw meathy bones instead of a kibble meal thru the week, this is what all pet food companies should be doing being honest with pet owners but it wont happen in America…
I hope you both enjoy watching Rodney & Ty Bollingers video’s there’s a lot to sink in so maybe watch the video’s a few times, the sad part is we have sick pets & cant do alot of the things like feed the Raw Diet but we still can add healthy foods to their diets, in 1 yr time when Atlas is an Adult & gut has healed, Atlas might be able to chew on a nice raw meaty bone & have no problems at all later on, he’s lucky he has you helping heal & fix his intestinal problem now in the beginning while he’s still a pup, so chances are his intestinal tract will slowly heal & then just avoid the foods he’s sensitive too, where Patches old owners we think he had a few owners cause of his name “Patch” he didnt know or answer to Patch when I get him thru rescue & he was micro chipped at 3months old all details DOB were on his M/C paper work, patches first owner must of given him up to someone else cause he would of answered to Patch, his owners mustnt of bothered when he had diarrhea or did real sloppy poo’s & just kept feeding him them same diet that was causing all his intestinal problems ..When I move I’m re introducing Patch onto raw again, I’m trying 1 last time, he’s getting a Crocodile meaty bone for his 9th birthday, he always pulls me to the fridge section & looks at the raw Crocodile & Kangaroo meaty bones….
We can stop using the flea tick products, I don’t use any flea/tick, allwormers or no Heartworm products, Patch always became real ill after I’d use any flea/tick products & his vet said NO to all the new flea/tick chews & tablets, the Fleas dont seem to jump on him, he doesnt seem to get any fleas only 1 Summer the fleas at the Park were bad we had had heaps of rain & a few fleas would jump up on his legs but he’d tell me straight away, he’d stop walking & look to where the flea was on his body & I’d squeeze inbetween nails & kill them, I dont use allwormers or Heart wormers either I dont live in a bad Heartworm area ask your vet he’ll know if your living in a high heartworm area, the only flea product Patches vet said to use & doesn’t go thru to the dogs blood is “Frontline Plus” Spot On & Frontline Spray, the rest all go into the dogs blood, that’s another thing try & find a GOOD vet, there’s some bodgee vets around & some really good vets like Rodney’s video’s they do heaps more studying after they have become vets & learn heap more about diet, nutrition, poisons, vaccines etc did you know a vet isnt taught how to prevent your dog from getting sick or cancer the vet is just taught how to treat the dying dog who already has cancer or is already sick, that’s sad I think…..
I’ve seen a lot of different vets over the years thru rescue, you have vets that love giving the dogs drugs & dont bother working out why this is happening with teh dog etc but lately the vets I’m seeing thru the pounds that are younger & learning now have an different approach then the more older cranky vets, so I hoping thats going to be a good thing for the future of our pets….

[RAFFAELLO]

Dear Mike,
I got a beautiful Samoyed from the best breeder in Russia, and the breeder recommended to feed him with an excellent recipe of homemade cook foods, as he doesn’t eat anything raw or even rare.
She also recommended BELCANDO lamb and rice for puppies and to never use any preparations containing chicken.
BELCANDO is manufactured in Germany, and the breeder told me she had much better results with it than with ORIJEN.
At this moment I am feeding him with ORIJEN for adults because ORIJEN large puppies contains chicken and gives him horrible diarrhea.
I am very interested to know more about BELCANDO because it’s cheaper than Champion Foods as it’s manufactured in Germany meaning there are no import duties. On the contrary, ORIJEN comes from Canada that is not part of the European Union.
I live in Barcelona, Spain.
Here, I cannot get most of your 5 stars recommendations.
Could you rate BELCANDO?

[haleycookie]

A raw diet is a very good diet for some dogs. If you have an Instagram check out flynnandace.eats. She has it private because of hateful fear mongering ppl such as anon above but just request and she’ll usually accept a few days later. She has four dogs on a raw whole prey diet. She mainly videos her two working breed shepherds on a whole prey diet. They eat whole rabbits sometimes. She’s had all four of her dogs on whole prey for a long time with only positive effects. Bones aren’t a scary thing if you feed the right kind. There are many accounts I follow that do whole prey raw diets and none of them had had any issues at all.

[Susan]

Hi Joseph,
its fine what Roar is doing, I have a English Staffy (in my photo) Patch & he’s a chomper all gone in under 1 minute this is how some dogs eat & it’s normal I’ve been told, in the wild they dont have all day to eat their kill they eat it as quick as they catch it before another wild dog comes along, same as our wild Dingoes in Australia they are fast eaters aswell…
My Boxer female would have her meaty raw bone all day & slowly eat it same as her weekly treat pig nose or pig ear, she’d take around 2 days slowly chewing but my Staffy Patch its gone & he’s looking for more, I can’t give Patch the pig ears or nose no more, he chews chews & swollows the pig nose, so instead he gets “Kangaroo Tendons” its the strong Achillies Tendon in the back of the Kangaroos strong back legs. Kangaroo Tendons are excellent for chompers & breeds like Staffys/Pit Bulls…High in Protein, High in Omega 3 Allergen free, no additives or preservitives…

Are you on facebook Joseph? go onto “Rodney Habib” F/B page he has finally made his video’s after traveling around the world doing research this last year, link below.
“The Truth about Pet Cancer” Episode 2 & 3 you’ll have to scroll down his page a bit for Episode 2 both video’s go for about 35-40mins, after watching you are going to be very happy you have changed your dogs onto a raw BARF diet, its the best thing you’ve done for them feeding a BARF diet & raw meaty bones it’s what their ment to eat…..

It’s great you’ve got Luna all better, it just shows us raw works it’s what Dogs & Cats are ment to eat not this over processed dry crap they call healthy kibble, watch episode 3, it shows the University of Helsinki did a 15 yrs study & they proved raw is better to fed our dogs. https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib

[Joseph S]

I was looking at a $2500 (after spending $800) estimate for a vet bill to save my sweetheart Luna. I did a weekends worth of research and decided to put my dogs on a BARF diet. A month and a half later Luna is about 100% better. And all 3 of my dogs are acting about 200% happier. But I have a question about my pitbull Roar, when I feed them bones Luna and Precious chew on them for about an hour. But Roar chomps his bone down in about 2 minutes. There doesn’t seem to be any negative effects, only a little sad as he looks at Luna and Precious while they chew on their bones. My question is, could him chewing up the bones so fast potentially be unhealthy?

[Nadine H]

To update my message, since I’ve been adding the Precise into the proplan my two danes have had a major amount of gas and very soft stool. I’ve decided to stick with the proplan focus that they’ve done so well on. They do get raw apple every day and I’m adding fresh veggies also so I feel like they’re getting a vitamin/mineral boost.

[poodaddy]

Hi Virginia D and others. Here is our story on this specific issue of dog gas. I hope it reveals some aspects of the nutrition side. First, the advice about exercise can be 50%+ of a solution with any dog since all dogs are to some degree “athletes” that NEED exercise; exercise is not just cardiovascular but also depending on the breed can resolve many other issues that do not “seem” to be related, such as anal gland functionality. Now, I am neither a vet, nor a certified anything, but I have been a field dog handler and student of canine performance for a very long time, now using some skills to start my understanding of canine nutrition science.

Before my current two cockapoos, I had a yellow lab raised from birth as a field dog (and household pet). He lived a long healthy life and I want to share with you and others on this posting, the experimenting I did with my yellow lab AND recently (less than a year ago) with my two cockapoos. I decided to figure out in both cases (my yellow lab diet) and the two poos diets, what would happen to their digestive tract, specifically in the generation of gas, if I kept all other factors as constant as possible. What I did was figure out what percentage of their diet was protein from their kibble and then I moved them into a kibble/raw diet and stabilized the protein at 50% for a while. We raised the protein percentage in about 5% increments starting at 50% until noticeable gas started, then we leveled off to ensure it was constant. Then I increased it more until just shy of 80% and the gas creation (making sure all other things were held constant) was amazing (from a biological view). I had some old notes from my yellow lab days that I needed to convince myself of with the two poos and the results compared favorably. The nutritionist readers will have LOTS of variables that contribute to this and I would probably agree with them all, such as some combinations of foods work together to control the chemical processing in a digestive tract. For this little experiment we did, we simply wanted to know how did our dogs’ digestive tracts react to protein percentage (period) nothing more sophisticated. And we found that percentage for our specific cases that correlated for one yellow lab and two cockapoos. That result was when we reached 80% protein % from raw meat where raw boneless chicken was 60% and raw red meat was 30%+ (the remainder of protein was from other non-meat ingredients), the gas production increased rapidly.

For the testing period, and menu stablization, we used these macro goals: Protein 60%, Carbohydrate 20%, Fat 20% and then increased the protein using boneless chicken until gas started and then continued increasing it to see if there was more production and there was a correlation. By the way, body builders and most human athletes have a similar issue with protein in their diets.

So, the other comments made about overeating are on solid ground if feeding a yellow lab from kibble where the lab will eat whatever amount is placed in front of them. My reading suggests that some canines will eat low protein foods until they get the protein they need which some authors suggest that this contributes to canine obesity. The point is, some of the comments above are right on in that there may be a correlation with your lab and the amount of bulk he/she is intaking compared to feeding times and exercise.

For this post though, I wanted to share with you that for one small item in a controlled environment, we proved that changing one item (protein % using raw chicken as the variable in an otherwise balanced diet), caused the onset of gas and continued to increase as the protein % increased. Here is the makeup of the most recent raw diet our two dogs are on. These ingredients are part of an integrated nutrition model that is in development. This the first time I have shared this data but it is nearing time to engage the nutritionist forum posters. I am providing this data primarily so you know the above is not some quacked out post. This was a real experiment and perhaps the results and posts will help you (and others) where gas is an issue. All numbers are in grams weight.

Raw Chicken heart 1252
Raw Chicken liver 765
Raw Chicken gizzard 2106
Raw Chicken Marrow 315
Organ 10.8% by weight

Raw Eye Round Roast 6000
Raw Whole chicken”fryer”/deskin/grd bone 16200
Whole XL eggs 2232
Raw Bottom Round 2000
Muscle meat 64.3% by weight

Shredded Carrot 500
Raw Zucchini 484
Boiled Sweet Potato 3500
Raw NAPA Cabbage 953
Boiled Raw Edamame 800
Boiled Green Beans 1000
Raw Butternut squash 459
Raw Whole Apple 921
Raw Baby Spinach 400
Kelp Powder 100
Yellow Squash 423
Vegitable/Fruit 23.2% by weight

Coconut Oil 600
Oil Supplement 1.5% by weight

Sea Calcium 65
Macromineral Supplement 0.16% by weight

Notes:
1. The Sea Calcium is used to force the CA:P ratio to 1.2 in this menu.
2. This made 60 days of food each for two dogs, one at 13.5 LBs and one at 15.5 LBs.
3. The menu planned cost for food was $0.94 per day per dog.
4. The final results after shopping with same %s design was $1.10 per day per dog.
5. Energy analysis resulted in 306 g per day and 339 g per day for each dog.
6. Custom MER factor used as 1.4 (based on iterations over 6 months of menus).
7. 1,260 g contribution by weight due to bone.
8. 2.5% contribution on the organ side due to chicken marrow, based on my own experiments.
9. Energy required per day: 381 Cal for 13.5 LBs and 423 Cal for the 15.5 LBs poos.

Results of this menu are outstanding in all measured areas. Am in the process of peeling back “supplements and vitamins” for what they really are or aren’t. Hope this detail helps you or others. More to come from our quest for canine nutrition knowledge and practical applications.

[CockalierMom]

No, I don’t think soaking or anything could bring the jerky back to the same state as fresh cooked chicken. Once the moisture is pulled out it changes the structure of the meat, like the difference between raw and cooked meat and jerky goes even further than cooked. If nothing else is working out for training, maybe you could just use small bites of the chicken you cook and try dipping the LID treats in the cooked chicken liquid.

At this point, you need to concentrate on getting the bacteria built up in his gut so he will be able to digest more. As I mentioned before, feeding kefir with food will aid more in digestion and as Susan stated maybe 3 or 4 tablespoons a day. You might try adding just a little banana-it would give the bacteria something to feed on. I just don’t think the LID food alone provides enough soluble fiber to get the gut healthy based on what I saw with my girls. I know NB has tweaked their formulas since I was feeding it and they may have added more soluble fiber.

[Ginger F]

Has anyone tried this? (Honestly Bare dog foods). My dog is the pickiest eater in the world. I mix chicken or some other raw or freeze dried mix with everything he eats and typically use one of the Acana products but he is picking out the good stuff and leaving the Acana. it’s way too expensive to waste. I tried Honestly Bare and he actually will even eat it alone (which has never happened). It only has 24% protein and then other natural ingredients but I haven’t seen any reviews. I figure with the natural meat he gets added he is getting a fairly high protein meal but didn’t know if it was healthy. Here is a link to their products.

• This topic was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Ginger F.

[InkedMarie]

I’m not positive but I believe white & sweet are two different potatoes, in dog foods.

With his allergies, you need grainfree. If you got him tested (was it blood or saliva), if you have to, use a food with one of the ingredients that are on the low end. I have a dog with suspected food sensitivities and/or allergies but raw solved the problem for us.

[jella]

My husband and I wouldn’t even know where to start to make a high quality raw diet. I mentioned it to him but he said that he would rather purchase it instead. I see there is 5100 types of dog foods and over 400 companies so we thought at least there might be many suggestions.

[Brian G]

Sounds like you may have better luck and peace of mind feeding a raw food diet. Dog food companies change ingredients all the time and sometimes the food has ingredients that aren’t listed on the bag.
Best of Luck

[poodaddy]

I would like to offer some personal insight into this but in no way intend to suggest that any comments above are “wrong”; I just want to provide a view into the prism of how a licensed professional may look at advising consumers. As a preamble, if a selected food works for the dog, and if that dog is in good health, i.e. not suffering from symptoms of improper diet such as excessive anal gland secretion, inconsistent stools, on-set of periodontal issues, skin issues, weight control variations, lethargy, where symptoms are not backed by medical testing, etc, then great.

But, …. as a licensed professional in a different industry, I can tell you the reason why any licensed professional will not advocate to a consumer for doing something that requires a certain threshold level of knowledge to implement it. It is one of professional LIABILITY. I become more and more convinced every day the reason veterinarians recommend a scientifically-balanced commercially manufactured diet is the liability for the vet to suggest anything else is unlimited – period. For example, I would not “recommend a person go build their own wing on a house” or “recommend a person change their food intake to a personal menu” but I would recommend a set of plans designed/sealed by others and or hiring a licensed individual to do the design work and I would recommend an industry professional be consulted before recommending something as vague as “raw diets are good so go do it”. That would invite a level of criticism that licensed professionals are not insured against.

Raw diet is primarily a matter of nutrition science and design; if I were a vet, my initial position would advise a non-professional against a raw diet as a matter of practice. We peeled this back on the pet food manufacturing side with the consultants or nutrition experts internal the manufacturers (which is where the liability is for commercial dog food) and found that our Vet “switched” to become supportive of a raw food diet when our nutrition data was presented and was customized to our dogs and when when combined with a Vet’s prescriptions to treat ailments that now are gone and there is scientific data to back it. It should not surprise anyone reading this post, that our Vet could not say “stop doing that when problems vanished.” The vet knew we had crossed over a threshold and were not coming back. This may surprise you but I would never recommend to anyone to just go do a raw food diet after what I have learned, unless, (1) using another professional’s complete diet with the data to back it up and or (2) doing it yourself … which is a huge commitment to an entirely new level of commitment to control the input data, measure the output data to know with certainty (=/- say ~3%) of what the data is showing.

I hope this provides a more full picture of the why a vet would not “openly advocate to consumers” to go do something that would most likely be FAR worse than buying commercially prepared and manufacturer-backed balanced dog food.

[poodaddy]

Ahhh, it is the weekend again and time to post good stuff. A lot of the above sounds soooo familiar with our situation for our both dogs, plus we had many other simultaneous symptoms occurring with our dogs, inconsistent stools, anal gland flare-ups, tooth/gum issues, we had been “fighting” the symptoms for so long it seemed we were destined for either living with it or changing the outcome. We were at the 4-year mark with our two cockapoos and I had enough of the personal ignorance and following everyone’s prescriptions including our Vet’s. So,… the long road on research and learning began (and it still continues), discussions with our Vet at a far more informed level (or at least the level I could study to), lots of webinars listened to given by licensed Vets with pet nutrition specializations, and reading reading reading. Talking to senior GOV nutritionists including the USDA, talking with pet consultant business owners, etc – you get the idea now that this was a lot of figuring out stuff that I could find in one condensed place. The secret we eventually (over an intense investigation period of months) came to was that we needed to take charge of the food data and get it done (science-based input = good results/output). The bottom-line in our case is that until we went to a complete raw food diet (this means really knowing first-hand what we were doing), we were destined on a course of mediocrity or worse and chasing symptoms which I (we) had enough of. The addition of ground bones and connective tissue with the raw diet addressed many issues (but that is just the beginning of the solutions). The experience, learning, demystification of misinformation, disinformation, and anecdotal information that is “out there” is staggering. This whole experience of ours is one that is very enriching and I am on a quest to tell everyone I can about the lessons learned, the solutions put into practice, the observations and iterations to make tweeks to the raw diet, etc needed to take control. On the money side, we have avoided thousands of dollars and or lots of worrisome situations with our two dogs. Because cost comes up regularly, our food cost ranges from an average of $1.00-$1.25 per dog per day (13.5 lb and 15.5 lb) not including time to plan, design, iterate, shop, prepare, manufacture, bag, clean up. And our Vet just smiles at us when we go in for the check-ups and tells us congratulations, you have broken some barriers of ignorance and have the data to back up your “program”. So, we are on the quest to get this project done and share the nutrition model (and all that goes into it) with those who want or need to start where we are and not have to recreate it. The model is in the final phase of designing the menu analysis section for supplements needed (or not needed) but it is based on nutrition data. Disclaimer: the model does not address any aspect of diet for treating diagnosed disease(s). The model is about proper diet and maximizing probability of prevention of problems that can be avoided by applying nutrition science.

[poodaddy]

Weston Pro Series #22 – for us this was the right balance of price for performance. We make 60 days of food for two dogs at one time, i.e., bones and all. Also important is the food processor for the non-meat portions of the menu.

Did my own comparative analysis of meat grinder specifications, price, company longevity, number of units in circulation, performance, risk, warranty, reviews, and then made the decision based on best value for us. For about a month prior, we used lesser capacity, lesser capable food processor devices when starting to mess with raw food augmentation of dry food, then when we were comfortable with raw food preparation in its entirety, and we committed, the decision was made. After 6-7 months of complete raw food preparation, we are convinced we made the right choice. The only reason we did not step up to the #32 was our volume did not call for it, otherwise if I were making raw food for friends or commercially, the decision would be for a more robust unit. As far as Weston, we love its sturdiness, and I really like its engineering/design. Anyone going 100% raw food preparation, which in our case includes the entire chicken or and bone-in red meat products (pork chops etc), a grinder that handles the bone, gristle, etc with ease is the key. Getting in the middle of a 10-hour production process the size we now do once every two months, and having a grinder break, is not a good thought. My wife cannot lift the Weston #22 from the pantry where we store it and onto the kitchen counter-top so be forewarned, good quality grinders (designed to handle bone, are heavy units).

[a c]

I have been adding raw zucchini and yellow squash to their diet. They don’t care for raw broccoli. I tried broil baby kale and then cutting it up today, and they have no problem with it. I just love to give them some fresh veggies. I haven’t try okra. The only time I use okra is in the gumbo.

My 10 years old girl had pancreatitis once earlier this year after we gave her some leftover bbq. She really like it, but not her tummy. She end up getting IV therapy for 3 days, the metronidazole, and Science Diet ID.

Our vet recommended Purina One Smartblend Healthy Weight as maintenance, but it’s nothing but carbs. I tried Horizon Amicus Senior, but the calories are a little too high. I am now trying Annemaet reduced fat. Both are grain free. I will see how it goes. Ideally, I want to mix rotate a couple kibbles. I also add a little wet food or something we eat as the topper.

[Susan]

Hi Charles,
are you using a medicated shampoo like “Malaseb Medicated shampoo” ? the Malaseb shampoo kills the yeast on skin & paws & can be used daily, also puts moisture back into the skin paws etc, my boy gets the same yeasty paws, skin ears etc Malaseb is excellent ask vet or sold on Amazon, my boy has food sensitivities & seasonal environment allergies, the 2 normally go together, I did food elimintaion diet & worked out what foods he’s sensitive too. Have you looked into feeding a RAW diet?? alot of these dogs do heaps better when the kibble is stopped & feed either freeze dried raw or pre made raw diet…

A really good facebook group to join that has a Dermatologist “Karen Helton Rhodes” is calleed “Dog Issues. Allergies & other information Support Group” Karen also runs her own site called “Canine Skin Solutions”
Another thing I use is creams every night I check Patches paws, around his mouth & the white fur above this left eye & if it looks red & is itchy I apply Hydrocortisone 1% cream that Patches vet recommend I use, I also get a cotten tip & put the Hydrocortisone cream inbetween his paws & pads, then when he wakes in the morning his paws skin around mouth is all clear & pink not red then I use “Sudocrem” its for Dermatitis, Eczema, Nappy Rash, Pressure Sores, the Sudocrem acts as a barrier & protects the skin & paws from environment allergies, it’s excellent, if you live America look on Amazon & Ebay….

These’s a new drug made by the same makers that make awful Aqopuel, it’s called “Cytopoint” injections, works in a different way to how Apoquel works
Cytopoint injections blocks the receptors where Apoquel blocks the reaction from the allergen receptors, Apoquel doesn’t work on yeast problems. There’s suppose to be less to no side effects & people are saying Cytopoint is the new mircale drug & they have itch free dog now… if you join the Dog Issues, Allergies & Other Information Support group you can learn more, a few people use the Cytopoint injection thru Spring & Summer months then stop thru the cooler months when the evironment allergies arent bad.

I have found giving weekly baths using the creams & a diet high in Omega 3 fatty acids I’m keeping Patches allergies under control & make sure he’s not eating any foods he’s senstivie too I also rotate his foods so he’s not eating the same diet 24/7, I found Patch started to react more when he just ate the same kibble 24/7 especially with his IBD,
my boy also has IBD brought on from food senstivities….
I feed “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & look at “Canidae” Pure formulas the Pure Sea & Pure Sky is suppose to be really good for dogs with Allergies its high in Omega 3 fatty acids, I rotate & feed the Canidae Pure Wild Boar cause the fat & protein is a bit lower then the Pure Sea, Patch does well on Lamb, Pork & Kangaroo, feed him some chicken & he starts itching within 20mins & carrots make his ears itch then yeasty smell ears..
There’s Dr B’s Barf Kangaroo Raw, its Australian but its sold in America you could do 1 meal raw the other meal kibble.. put the cream on those paws & watch them stop itching..

[poodaddy]

The below was a response to a thread created in the “Trolls and Spam” area of this forum. It was loosely related to a perception that a raw dog food model may be a homeopathic method. So the response below was generated. I thought those of you interested in this raw food thread may also be interested in the below response to anan101.

October 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm
#105078

@anon101

I think this new thread and discussion is probably suited for a different area of the web site, since I think this area is for Reporting Trolls and Spam. If you can let me know where to jump to, we can do that. Perhaps there will be others interested in the “homeopathic” thread, which I have no perspective on, am ignorant about, do not have time to get into at this time, and is unrelated to anything I am doing.

After visiting the link you sent and there appears to be some confusion about what I am doing versus your area(s) of interest. My area of focus has zero to do with homeopathic interests in any way. I am developing a Nutrition Model (computer application) that is based on the latest canine nutrition design criteria I can find, every variable I can find and understand that professional canine nutritionists use for the planning, designing and implementing of “raw dog food”. I am on a quest to demystify the subject using my mathematical, Excel, and research skills to (eventually) open the world of raw dog food menu development and analysis to ANYONE interested in the subject.

In a separate area of interest, I have been cataloging as a test group of two (my dogs) the Vet-identified issues they had one year ago versus the Vet-confirmed mitigation or elimination of those issues as a result of recorded actions I have taken – most of which are raw dog food preparation since March 2017. This will be the subject of personally authored technical articles (for the future due to time constraints).

In short, my project addresses the ingredients, metrics, and nutrition stats associated with self-manufacturing “Raw Dog Food” vs buying “Commercially Mass-Produced Dog Food”. It is a very interesting subject that is also very detailed, analytical, and inter-related with post-feeding data capture such as weekly weigh-ins, trends of grams of food per batch, and documenting observed changes that can be correlated with a raw food diet.

I am already addressing much of this elsewhere on this DogFoodAdvisor forum. Perhaps you would like to participate or not. My next action is the nutrition analysis of KevinB’s post in Jan 2017 asking for comments on his menu. I am testing the veracity of my model (in progress) against his menu and will report out the micronutrition and vitamin information from the model (in a week or so).

I am not selling raw dog food preparation to anyone. In fact, I am cataloging the level of effort, skills, process, equipment, hygiene, and so on, of everything related to raw dog food preparation at home. I am a scientist, an engineer, and businessman addressing solutions to disinformation, misinformation, fog of lack of information, and or professional greed that keeps information from everyday people who need to know how to address their questions and resolve them for themselves related to raw dog food. This will be my contribution this year.

[Charles B]

We have a foster Golden Retreiver, that we just recently adopted.

He came to us in the June timeframe with a skin infection, and ear infections. Yeast present on his skin and ears.

He came to us on Kirkland Signature Chicken dogfood. We switched him cold turkey to Fromm Salmon as our other dog was on it (and they only gave us 4 cups of his old food.) We got put on an anti fungal medication, ear rinsing, ear drops, a powder for his tummy, and some cleaning wipes for 3 weeks. At the end he was all cleared up. We continued to work on his diet as it was still an apparent issued. We tried Fromm Weight Management (fish) and had awful results. He was horrifically itchy to the point of gnawing and needing a cone. We tried Pro Plan Skin Sensitivity Salmon and had an improvement, but it did not settle with his GI. We had an alergy shot and tried several different allergy meds. No luck. We got Apoquel – this worked, and after being on it for a month we backed off. During this time when we backed off, we did more diet adjusting.

Finally we tried Zignature Kangaroo – bingo. Perfect. Minor itches, no digging at his face, chewing his groin etc. Also tried Zignature Venison – ok”ish”, when we got to the end of the bag we were itching.

On the 1st of the month we give our dogs their nexguard. On the 3rd of the month we took him to the vet for licking his rear left foot toe #2-3 raw. Had a bacterial infection near the nail (we had assumed it was a foot injury that he licked over over 1-2 days.) He got an antibiotic, cleaning wipes, and powder.

On the last day of the month we gave him nexguard again and guess what… we are back to a “sick foot” again. So we think we might be allergic to something in the pill and are looking at other options.

But going back to the vet on the 2nd of the month, he shows he has yeast on his paw, and he has started digging at his face again.

I really dont want to put him back on Apoquel until we get his skin issues figured out again.

SO now we are on the Zignature Kangaroo, cleaning the foot daily, and the vet is offering another round of anti-fungal meds.

What else can we do?

[Susan H]

Thanks, Lew.

I just left the local holistic pet food store. They sell Orijen, and other top quality foods. She said all their line is 5 star rated by Dog Food Advisor. I was happy to hear that.

She told me that out of all the dog food manufactured in the USA, that Orijen has the highest standards. That was good to know.

She recommended that I keep the pup on what she was on for at least 2 weeks until she is settled in with us. Also, the vet gave her a worm pill yesterday that was likely too strong, and she’s been throwing up since last evening. I purchased some raw goat’s milk to help settle her tummy. I may decide to change to a holistic vet that is farther away, but maybe more up to date on natural alternatives as well as conventional.

I’m sort of leaning toward Stella and Chewy’s raw, and am going to search in the forum for experiences with that.

[poodaddy]

I think this new thread and discussion is probably suited for a different area of the web site, since I think this area is for Reporting Trolls and Spam. If you can let me know where to jump to, we can do that. Perhaps there will be others interested in the “homeopathic” thread, which I have no perspective on, am ignorant about, do not have time to get into at this time, and is unrelated to anything I am doing.

After visiting the link you sent and there appears to be some confusion about what I am doing versus your area(s) of interest. My area of focus has zero to do with homeopathic interests in any way. I am developing a Nutrition Model (computer application) that is based on the latest canine nutrition design criteria I can find, every variable I can find and understand that professional canine nutritionists use for the planning, designing and implementing of “raw dog food”. I am on a quest to demystify the subject using my mathematical, Excel, and research skills to (eventually) open the world of raw dog food menu development and analysis to ANYONE interested in the subject.

In a separate area of interest, I have been cataloging as a test group of two (my dogs) the Vet-identified issues they had one year ago versus the Vet-confirmed mitigation or elimination of those issues as a result of recorded actions I have taken – most of which are raw dog food preparation since March 2017. This will be the subject of personally authored technical articles (for the future due to time constraints).

In short, my project addresses the ingredients, metrics, and nutrition stats associated with self-manufacturing “Raw Dog Food” vs buying “Commercially Mass-Produced Dog Food”. It is a very interesting subject that is also very detailed, analytical, and inter-related with post-feeding data capture such as weekly weigh-ins, trends of grams of food per batch, and documenting observed changes that can be correlated with a raw food diet.

I am already addressing much of this elsewhere on this DogFoodAdvisor forum. Perhaps you would like to participate or not. My next action is the nutrition analysis of KevinB’s post in Jan 2017 asking for comments on his menu. I am testing the veracity of my model (in progress) against his menu and will report out the micronutrition and vitamin information from the model (in a week or so).

I am not selling raw dog food preparation to anyone. In fact, I am cataloging the level of effort, skills, process, equipment, hygiene, and so on, of everything related to raw dog food preparation at home. I am a scientist, an engineer, and businessman addressing solutions to disinformation, misinformation, fog of lack of information, and or professional greed that keeps information from everyday people who need to know how to address their questions and resolve them for themselves related to raw dog food. This will be my contribution this year.

[anonymous]

Are you familiar with skeptvet? http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

Science-based veterinary medicine. I understand if you are not interested.

I don’t care to try raw ever again with any pets of mine.

But, that’s okay. See, we can agree to disagree 🙂

[poodaddy]

@ anon101

Yup, your advice is good. I am seeing some interesting communications behavior from people, particularly since I have not been an internet surfer or forum person. It is possible this forum may not be the place for my interests, but it may end up being a good place to converse about the project I am doing or peripheral subjects that arise. I know there some very knowledgeable people I have already met and who provided links that have moved my project forward (sources of data that professional consultants would not even give me), so that is a good thing. My interests are primarily science of the model and industry-leading sources of the data to move the model toward a fact-based objective system that can function as the start of the raw food nutrition planning AND be a source of in-progress implementation of a customized raw dog food menu. I am using the model as an analytical tool to evaluate a menu posted in the homemade section and that should be an interesting dialog once I have the nutrition data researched. If people get weird (unprofessional), I will follow your advice and ignore them.

[poodaddy]

Going to run this through my model and report what it looks like. Will report out as soon as I collect the nutrient data for Kevin B’s menu. My model DB has raw ingredients and is not set up for what Kevin B is doing, i.e. cooking dis and dat but will be an interesting exercise to see what pops out of the program.

[aimee]

I understand your point from a dog owner education standpoint but personally I just can’t bring myself to blame her.. it was a tragic event.

As for the company… something isn’t right here. Size aside if the chew that led to that dogs death tests out as rawhide ( I thought i read the actual chew was being tested) I think she has a valid court case.

[Susan]

Hi Poodaddy,
Welcome to DFA, I really enjoyed your story, the same thing happened with my cat Jeremy he was 10yrs old & his breath was awful, his teeth were full of tarter from eating wet tin food & dry kibble & a cooked food (what I ate) Jeremy loved his food & made daily visits to a few neigbours places, same time everyday for 14 yrs, he was a Main Coon, a beautiful big cat, he was the same height as my English Staffy Patch, his vet said we can clean his teeth & it will cost $460 & if any teeth need removing it will be an extra $50 per tooth, plus he will need a blood test before we can give him any anaesthetic cause he’s 10yrs old or you can start giving him chicken necks, vet said I’ve seen really good results giving cats chicken necks, so naturally I pick the safe & natural way to clean his teeth & I started giving him meaty chicken necks & chciken wings he loved them & the tarter started to come off his teeth & no more smelly breath, I just wish I fed him a raw diet earlier, poor Jeremy passed away age 14, then Patch became real sick again with his IBD vet didn’t know what was wrong, his diet hadn’t changed but he was having a bad IBD flare, STRESS he was really depressed since Jeremy had been PTS, so the best thing to do was adopt a new cat so off we went to the RSPCA, they knew we were coming & had a few cats waiting to met Patch, Patch picked this scrawny, skinny 5 month old street kitten with a bent tail, a bent ear & had had bad ear mites & was still being treated for really bad ear infection caused by the ear mites infestation, I said to Patch look there’s a beautiful looking ginger boy he’s friendly he’s a kitten he’s NOT SICK, but Patch really liked this little scrawny kitten & she really took to Patch, they both really liked each other straight away… As the days passed Patch got better & was like a young pup playing, running, giving his balls to this kitten, the kitten “Indy” washes him at night before bed & now she thinks she is a dog not a cat cause she has been brought up by a dog, Indy is feed a raw diet she eats everything & loves her freeze Dried Green Lipped Mussels every day…..

….”Steve Brown” when asked if you had to pick just 1 food to add to your dog bowl of fresh food to make it better, what would it be, Steve said Mussels… they’re cheap, they have Iodine, Manganese, Omega 3, DHA, EPA, Vitamin-D, alot of raw foods are short of Iodine, fats & Vitamin-D so add 1-2 mussels a day, also add 1 tablespoon of Salmon & a pinch of Kelp…Follow “Rodney Habib” on facebook. https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib

Rodney & Ty Bollinger interview medical professionals & cancer scientists to find the truth about PET CANCER & their new documentry “The Truth About Pet Cancer” is finally being released 17th October 2017….. Best thing you’ve done is put your dogs on a raw diet.. when I move into my house 1-2 months I’m re trying Patch on a raw diet again this time no enzymes or probiotics & I’ll see if it works out this time, I hate feeding him dry processed kibble & he see’s Indy getting raw meal, it breaks my heart…

[anonymous]

Vitamin C strikes (out) again

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/things-holistic-vets-say-about-cancer-that-should-make-pet-owners-run-the-other-way/ (excerpts out of context below, click on link for full article and comments) Nothing is being sold. Science-based veterinary medicine.

Things Holistic Vets Say About Cancer that Should Make Pet Owners Run the Other Way
Posted on July 5, 2016 by skeptvet
Cancer is a common and frightening disease, and many pet owners will have to face making decisions about cancer care for their pets at some point. While there are many therapies that can improve quality of life for a veterinary cancer patient, extend life, and even cure cancer in some cases, the painful reality is that there is much we don’t know about cancer. Often, cancer will be life limiting despite the best care possible.
This unpleasant reality leads many to seek alternative therapies for their pets with cancer. Unfortunately, those alternatives are almost never proven to be safe or effective, and many, such as homeopathy, are unquestionably nonsense. Yet despite the lack of evidence to support many alternative cancer treatments, and the evidence that shows some such treatments can cause real harm, some vets will try to frighten and mislead pet owners into avoiding scientific medical therapies and grasping at the various straws they offer, from homeopathy to acupuncture, from supplements and magical diets to outright magic such as so-called “energy medicine.”

“In the face of the ubiquitous unreliable information from holistic vets such as these, it can be hard to sort out which information is truly useful. Here are some resources that are a good bit more trustworthy”.
Veterinary Cancer Society (This group also has a tool for finding a board-certified veterinary cancer specialist.) Here are some of the links the VCS recommends:
ACVIM Foundation
American Animal Hospital Association Healthy Pets
American Association of Feline Practitioners
American College of Veterinary Radiology
Animal Cancer Center at CSU
Animal Cancer Foundation
Animal Clinical Investigation, LLC
Boo Radley Foundation
Brazilian Society of Veterinary Oncology
C3O: Center of Clinical Comparative Oncology
Canine Health Foundation
Cornell’s College of Veterinary Medicine “Consultant”
ESVONC (European Society of Veterinary Oncology)
Magic Bullet Fund
Perseus Foundation
PubMed
QuitDay.org
Morris Animal Foundation
The National Cancer Institute
UC Davis Comparative Cancer Center
University of Pennsylvania’s “Oncolink”
Vaccine Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force
Veterinary Center for Clinical Trials at the University of California-Davis
Veterinary Society of Surgical Oncology
The Veterinary Cancer Center

[pitlove]

Hi Jessica-

Depending on the breed, a puppy will reach an adult at different ages. Small and medium sized dogs when fully grown can transition to adult food at 1 year, toy breeds can often switch earlier at 9 months, large dogs over 50lbs at mature weight is about 18 months and for giant breeds some say to keep them on a puppy formula until 24 months.

If he was already lean and fit before switching to raw and has now lost more weight, you may be under feeding him. I am all for a lean, conditioned dog, but you can go overboard. Any idea what Leo’s projected adult weight will be with that combo of breeds?

[MATT C]

Wow! That sounds like quite the project and quite the commitment. Since my wife is now working more hours (away from the home) we decided that this was not going to be the right time to transition Jasper’s diet. We’ll be looking for a time when I will be home for a stretch to deal with any digestive “issues”.

On a separate note, one of the major revelations regarding his gut issues came about a few weeks ago. We finally realized that his “flare-ups” (as we call them) have been coming a 4-5 days after his heart worm meds. So in an effort to reduce the number of things changing we are keeping his diet the same and we will omit this medicine. With luck, making this change will prevent his issues and eventually allow us to transition him to a natural diet.

We also found a fairly local raw food provider. Fortunately, we have a retailer in our area.

http://abbyschoice.com/home.html

This product (along with some supplement) will be fairly high on my list when looking at raw options 🙂

[poodaddy]

Ahhh … what a juicy topic and it seems full of emotion – perhaps a story of multiple parts which will eventually be relevant to chewing bones will help others – gotta love real life stories. Context – Not a Vet or a Licensed Dog whatever but have been training dogs from basic obedience to field trials (for about 40+ years of studying mostly working with many breeds in dog training clubs – some of the best times in my life – some of the most diverse professionals who were in those clubs – try it if you don’t do it). Was finished with years of shelties and open jumping and wanted a gun dog and to be active in a gun club in upstate PA. So studied up on it, and got an awesome yellow lab, bred for hunting, waited a year for him from a professional duck hunter, and was soooo excited when the day came for me to drive 10 hours to pick him up at 7 weeks old (1995 in Pennsylvania). Carefully trained the puppy to six months in puppy obedience (of course) with the understanding this was going to be a gun dog and of course our favorite home companion too! This big strong consistent smart yeller was amazing in the field under the tutelage of a retiring yellow lab female for upland game and an unreal black for water dog training. Yes, …. for those who do not know, gun dogs in high end clubs mostly learn from retiring master gun dogs and the owners learn from the professional handlers. That dog grew up able to chew, crush, devour anything with jaws and teeth that were bred to handle it (and snapping the neck of a really big furious goose when needed). Teeth were shiny white, never came close to breaking a tooth that I could see, no periodontal disease, healthy male lab, as loving as could be around children/people, but was a focused working dog in the field with an unbelievable level of hearing, great sight and instincts that made me a better person, hunter and handler. Fast forward, many years later, we were suffering from the loss of this companion and we get two pups (14 lb at maturity) cockapoos because I am done with hair in the house and I want a canine companion in my office with me in my 12-15 hour days as a business owner. After the poo male’s first broken adult tooth from meaty bone chewing and the female’s bowel issues from eating “stuff” not even close to bone fragments, and a couple vet visits, gone was bone chewing other than VERY careful observed knawing on some softer meaty bones that are more trouble than they are worth due to the messiness – but the poos love them nonetheless. We were driven to address the anal gland secretion issues, the normal onset of periodontal disease at the 4 year mark and scale build up, bad breath, …

* We learned something REMARKABLE after our vet informed us we must make an appointment for two dogs to be anesthetized and get their teeth cleaned (expensive situation that carried some risk). Early in this year 2017, for different reasons, I embarked on a journey of raw food self-education primarily for anal gland issues and my growing nervousness of kibble, my reading about how commercial dog food is prepared, and my ignorance of what is in it (we were feeding them Blue Buffalo Company products) which may be high quality but I did not trust any kibble and the dogs were finicky with any kibble diet. Since March 2017, their diet (100% raw) has apparently changed their body chemistry so dramatically that the scale on their teeth started “slowly dissolving” after about 6 weeks. Their breath changed in about a week or two for the better. I could rake the scale off with the slightest pressure from a fingernail after a month. The follow on vet visit since then resulted in “anal gland secretion problem resolved” – saved $60/visit/60 days gone due to firm stools from ground bone in the raw diet, “periodontal disease problem – $1600/both dogs resolved” due to (1) the change in digestive chemistry according to our vet with my research concluding the same, (2) and combined with once a week brushing to keep removing the scale, “all digestive issues of periodic loose stools or strange eating habits – resolved as they love the raw food diet we manufacture. So, what is the relevance? The risks of raw meaty bones with a dog directly correlate to the breed, size, and situation. At least this is the conclusion from our real life experience, backed up by concurrence with our vet, and it is consistent with our friends’ experiences who have smaller poo-hybrids versus those with labs. Who is learning? The human for certain … and both the human and dog are benefiting. Booya for education, trial and error, doing things for the love of the dog, and persistence!

[poodaddy]

Hi Matt, ditto all the above. I am very new to forums in general (about two weeks ago) and noticed your post. First, one cannot over-research raw feeding – not possible in my opinion. It is a tremendous subject that I have been reading about and developing an Excel application for since March of this year. Started our two canine companions on a raw food diet on 18 Mar 2017 and have been refining it every month since; it is a Sunday morning labor of love I guess. So, … if you are into model development, raw food manufacturing AND applying the science/data that will produce a balanced and healthy diet, let me know. I could certainly use some collaboration since every “consultant” I reached out to seemed to run away from the project I guess thinking it was a threat which of course is silly in my view. Am about 90% with the model and nearing the output that will highlight the deficiencies of each micronutrient and vitamin against the daily standard needed for balanced and healthy meals. It is a lot more effort than I originally thought and that does not even address the actual work involved in menu prep, shopping, preparation, and cleanup for a 60-day supply of food for two dogs. The model also captures level of effort in hours, and price/cost of the menu. Manufacturing the food is a giant production operation that is a LOT OF WORK but we are passionate about the results it has achieved for our two cockapoos not to mention the vet bills avoided. Lots learned and a lot more to go.

[poodaddy]

Excellent. Exactly what I was looking for and what my raw model needs. Thank you!

[aimee]

Pitlove,

I understand why people lay blame at the owners feet but I’m reluctant to. It was a small size chew but a 11 inch chew could have resulted in the same problem. The dog given a larger chew could have sheared off a shorter portion and swallowed. That is Brooke handles linear chews which is why they are not an option for her.

I also agree that Thixton has a history of not letting facts get in the way of a good story and jumps to conclusions.

Does it matter if the chew was hide? I think it plays a role here. I could see someone assuming that a chew made of those ingredients would break apart from jaw pressure from such a large dog, more like giving your dog a large biscuit whereas that assumption likely wouldn’t be made with hide.

a.c.
I paid 5.99 for 4 inch piece of No Hide and 1.18 for a similar sized rawhide. So yes people are paying a premium for this product.

[Jessica S]

Hi everyone!

The Basic Question: At what age does a puppy become an adult?

New to the forum, and new to raw feeding. I have really enjoyed browsing this forum – what a wealth of information! I transitioned my Pit Bull/Red Heeler/Rottweiler pup Leo to the raw diet about 3 weeks ago. He is SO into it..no surprise there, as he loves any and all food.

Leo is 11 months old. I’ve been feeding him based on the adult guidelines (2-3% of weight), but it occurred to me last week that maybe I should be feeding based on puppy guidelines (more like 10% of weight).

He looks very healthy – trim and fit. It does look as though he may have lost some weight since he made the transition to raw, but he still looks great.

What’s the consensus? Should I up his feeding amount a few percentages?

[a c]

After losing my 10 years old to lymphoma earlier this year, I really started to take a close look at the dog food. I have been feeding them primarily Hill’s Science Diet since they were puppies because that’s what vet has recommended.

I went to a local pet store, I was told Orijen is the best out there in addition to the raw diet. I bought Origen and small bags of Stella and Chewy, Primal, and Honest Kitchen to try. My the other 10 year old end up with pancreatitis. She was put on IV therapy, metronidazole, and Science Diet ID can food. Then, I was told to put her on low fat Purina One Smartblend Weight management kibbles.

It has been a struggle to find low fat, good ingredients, and no/low toxin dog food. It shouldn’t be this hard.

[a c]

I understand.

However, if I pay over $1 for each piece of No Hide chews, I expect there is no rawhide. Otheise, I can pay $10 or less for 50 rawhides.

Company has been dishonest and misleading the consumers.

[pitlove]

Hi a c
Regardless of what Earth animal chews are made of the incident with the dog dying is 100% owner error. This women bought a 4 in chew for a 125 lb French Mastiff, took a 90 minute conference call and had her back turned away from him. The chew got lodged in his throat and never made it to his stomach, so raw hide or not doesn’t matter.

Susan Thixon once again took a horrible story and ran with it blaming the company instead of the irresponsible owner trying to save money buying a treat far too small for their dog.

[Bobby dog]

Hello Atlas:
My pup was on an Rx food for a month for digestive issues. I transitioned her back to her regular diet with no issues.

I have used Rx diets for my cats as well. I made the mistake of taking one of them off early. His health issue returned not to mention he had to endure more visits to the Vet.

For training maybe single ingredient freeze dried treats would be an option. Some I feed are Nature’s Variety, Stella & Chewie, Grandma Lucy, Vital Essentials, Primal, and Stewarts.

If food is an issue you can never know for sure if an OTC food is free from a protein your dog might react to. OTC foods, even LID or sensitive recipes, might be similar in ingredients to Rx foods, however they are not guaranteed to be free of proteins not listed on the bag as Rx foods are. Completely breaking down the equipment and sanitizing after each batch of food to prevent cross contamination is costly and time consuming. This along with other procedures adds to the price of Rx foods. Here’s an article on the subject:
https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/150515a.aspx

If an elimination diet is ever recommended for your pup keep in mind you can also go the homemade route; your Vet would be able to advise you on a recipe. Some articles explaining elimination diets, food intolerances, and allergies:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=2499

You can find these articles on “DVM360” the links won’t post just copy and paste the titles in their search:
“The finer points of food elimination trials: A veterinary nutritionist’s take”
“Choosing the right elimination diet for food allergic cases”

I suggest keeping an open mind. I found this site several years ago because my dog had terrible skin and coat issues. I assumed it was his diet, not the case. He’s all healed up and the only maintenance he needs is weekly baths (monthly in the winter) with a shampoo that has specific ingredients, nothing else, just baths. I did move onto other food choices, however I feed him everything under the sun with no issues. Kibble, canned, commercial raw, balanced homemade, grains, grain free, fruits, veggies, common meat proteins, I don’t even transition to new foods. Good luck! 😉

[Susan]

Hi,
I posted a post the other day but it’s not here now??.. Yes go back to just feeding the Natural Balance kibble, what meat protein is in the NB formula he’s eating??
When I rescued Patch he had just turned 4yrs old, I didn’t know what he could eat & what he couldn’t eat & in the end that’s why his 4th vet put him on another vet diet that finally worked & firmed up poos but caused itchy smelly yeasty paws & skin, cause he cant eat Chicken his stomach & bowel is OK eating chicken but he gest Yeasty itchy paw & skin & carrots cause yeasty, itchy, smelly ears, you know Atlas does well on the Natural Balance formula & you know he can eat Chicken & Potatoes so that’s a pretty good start, so he Defently has food intolerances, if his gut was un healthy then he’d be like Patch was when I first rescued him, no matter what he ate he do OK poo’s then he was doing poos with jelly on them or like a condom over the poo (Food Sensitivities), then he was doing sloppy yellow poos (S.I.B.O) that smelt awful, that’s how a “GOOD” vet knows if the dog has either S.I.B.O, IBD, EPI, Food Intolerances…..when their poos are yellow it’s their small bowel that’s not working properly…Patches new vet said lets try the vet diet Eukanuba Intestinal low residue formula it wasthe only vet diet Patchhadn’t tried & finally he was doing smaller firm poo’s & only 2 or 3 poos a day then his vet wanted him to stay on the Eukanuba Intestinal vet diet for 9-12months to let his stomach & bowel heal as he probably has been doing sloppy awful poos most of his life, that’s why he ended up at a pound I’d say, his owner just didnt care, probably when Patch was Atlas age his owner didnt bother trying to work out what was wrong with him & just kept feeding him ingredients he was sensitive too & that has now caused IBD one of Patches vet said…..

I would just feed the Natural Balance for 1 month NO Kefir as this could have caused the
in-balance in his stomach & bowel, S.I.B.O, this is why you only add 1 new food or supplement at 1 time maybe every 1-2 weeks then you know 100% it’s the new food or supplement you’ve added to diet causing sloppy/diarrhea poo’s…
Look at the ingredient list in the “Kirkland Nature’s Domain” I would start doing an Elimination Food Diet start adding peas to his cooked meal start off slowly under 1/4 of a cup for 2 days then increase the amount of peas if he doesn’t have sloppy poos diarrhea in the 2 weeks chances are he can eat peas, then I would stop the peas & start adding boiled peeled Sweet Potato also for treats start making jerky treats, you know he can eat chicken so make Chicken Jerky, if he can eat sweet potato make sweet potato jerky as well or I was making Pork & beef rissoles, I was buying very lean grounded pork mince or beef mince adding 1 whisked egg & 1 teaspoon chopped parsley mixing all together & making small Pork rissoles balls or making separate beef rissoles, I’d foil lined a baking tray & bake them in the oven, they only took about 10 mins on 1 side then half way I would drain any fat & water & turn the rissoles over then cook another 10mins after you cool the rissoles I freeze, then break up a few rissoles & give as treats or I mashed a few rissole balls with some boiled sweet potato for lunch….
It does take time doing an elimination food diet but in the end you will know 100% what he can & cant eat…

The only other thing you can do is if you see a vet ask the vet can he write you a repeat script for some “Metronidazole” a few months worth to keep at home so if Atlas becomes unwell again or when you start introducing a new kibble you put Atlas on the Metronidazole tablets for 2 weeks while intoducing the new kibble, a few dogs in the Canine IBD group see IBD Specialist & this is what their vet specialist has told them to do, same as Patch in the end I had to so I could change his vet diet, I couldn’t handle him smelly & scratching from the chicken in the vet diet, I’d start him on a new kibble he’d be doing really well, good poos then around 2 & 1/2 months later his poos went yuk & soft again, the vet didn’t know what was wrong was his gut bacteria going out of balance too much bad bacteria again?? vet couldnt work out what was happening was it food sensitivities/intolerances as they can take anywhere from 1 day to react up to 6 weeks to start reacting, but this was 2 months later, this is why your better off starting an elimination food trial & start with adding the ingredients in the Kirkland Turkey & Sweet Potato formula or a kibble you want to feed, I’d start with adding boiled Peas, then Sweet Potatoes, blueberries as treats add to his cooked meal & see how he goes, it will be 3 steps forward 2 steps backwards in the beginning, so make sure you keep a diary, I always look back on Patches diarys when I need to rememeber something……
Patch was doing really really well most of 2016 while eating the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble & having a cooked meal Pork Rissoles & sweet potatoes he was drinking heaps of water maybe 2-3 times a week, vet did all these test they showed nothing was wrong, so vet said it could be pain related so I had introduced “Canidae Pure Wild Boar” then he started whinging after 2months of introducing the Canidae, his poos were bigger & softer on the Canidae in the beginning but got better as the weeks went by plus he was eating TOTW for his bigger meals breakfast & 1st dinner, Canidae was givin for Lunch & a second dinner the Canidae were smaller meals, he was geeting his pain right side Stomach/Pancreas area I thought the Canidae was too high in Kcals it was over 400 Kcals per cup this has happened before with another kibble so I started to introduced a new kibble Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Digestion Lamb then his poos went real sloppy again & smelly he had been eating the same kibbles all Spring & Summer TOTW Canidae no poo problems until the I added the Purina Digestion, Sensitive Stomach cause Patches pain right side, Patches American vet Sue had recommendd I try Purina months before so this is why I tried the Purina, the vet Sue blammed environment allergies & said his immune system has gone into over drive from his allergies & he’s reacting but I think it was more from when I started to add Purina Sensitive Stomach kibble to his diet it had Barley in it, I dont think he does well when the kibble has barley in it or he had an imbalance in the bowel S.I.B.O & they get abnormal amounts bacterica accumulate in the small bowel making their poos go yuk again, something he was eating put his gut/bowel floria out of wack again & causes too much bad bacteria then he starts doing very sloppy poos again, that’s what happens with Small Intestinal Bowel Overgrowth (S.I.B.O) it happens in young dogs, they can’t put on any weight they stop growing, maybe Atlas has a few Intestinal problems, he has his Food Sensitivities & he might get SIBO as well & the Kefir set off the SIBO again, Metronidazole gets rid of the S.I.B.O & then the gut/bowel is balanced again…..

It’s very hard working out your dog what agrees with him & what doesn’t, I’ve learnt more thru people in canine IBD groups who have been thru all this, there’s a good small F/B group called ” Irritable Bowel Disease & G.I Related Diseases In Dogs UK” group on Face Book, the Amercan Canine IBD group the lady who runs it just pops in & tells everyone to go & see your vet & the poor people have been & seen their vets & they still have no answers what’s wrong with their por dog, I’m noticing over the years there’s a few bad vets in America, I dont think a vet in America has to study as long as an Australian or UK vet does?? cause Patches vet Sue is American & she said when she came to Australia in the late 80’s she had to do another 2 years study to work as a vet in Australia & also in Australia vets have to follow up with yearly courses… Patches really good 2nd vet Simon he did Patches Endoscope & Biopsies, he’s very busy & very hard to see he’s always operating etc he knows heaps about the stomach/bowel, he’s the vet that isnt really into giving dogs PRObiotics to dogs, he said there’s no real scientific proof about PRObiotic work in dogs, but if you think your seeing an improvement he said then give Patch the Probiotics but make sure it’s a dog probiotic that are stored in the fridge, “Protexin Soluble”, I said Probiotics seem to make Patch feel sick, he starts his mouth licking & swollowing but only some days this would happen, then Simon said when it comes to PREbiotics he said yes he has found Prebiotics did help & work on some of the dogs he’s treated… I never saw any real improvement with Patch but I did when he was on “NAS, Digestavite Plus” Powder, its a dog prebiotic with vitamins that balances raw or cooked meals he was eating, I went thru a Naturopath with Patchto put him on a raw diet in te end before I found the TOTW & Canidae kibbles, his vet referred Patch to a Holistic Vet but shewas very expensive $180 a hour, so I saw a Animal Naturopath Nutritionist instead, she cost $60 a hour, she makes the “Natural Animal Solutions” products, the Digestavite Plus Powder has Glutimine, Inulin, Spinach leaf powder, Parsley leaf, Beetroot powder, Broccoli, Green Tea, Grapeseed extract, Ginger, Slipperly Elm, Stem Bark, Milk Thistle, Acacia Powder, then Vitamin B1, B2 B3, B5 B12,D3, Patches poos were beautiful & firm when he has the Digestavite Plus Pawder over his cooked & raw meals….
You can ask the vet about weekly Vitamin B12 injections, the B12 really helps dogs that keep having diarrhea slopping poos..
Just see how Atlas goes just eating the Natural Balance for 1 month then introduce 1 new food to his diet nothing else. Good-Luck he’s your special boy.. I’m rescueing another dog soon, Patch is turning 9yrs old, 20th November…I’m going to make sure she does NOT have any Allergies or Stomach/Bowel problems. sorry about the long posts but there’s too much information to leave out..

[a c]

Aimee,

I get emails from Truthaboutpetfood.com Their email from 7/27, 2017 stated that a PHD leather chemist said that” No-hide chew is absolutely rawhide split material”.

A dog has died from the treat stuck in the dog’s throat.

I used to buy No-hide chews. Not anymore.

[Jeff S]

So I have a 14 week old Australian Labradoodle puppy who I was possibly transitioning to raw or at least mostly raw—want to keep some kibble to make it easier for travel and friends watching her. Anyway started transitioning her to Raw about a week ago. Have been using a sample pack from Darwin’s as well as some Primal Raw frozen–both chicken. She seems to be doing generally ok, although it seems that for about 1/2-1 hour after she eats, she gets very hyper–sometimes running in big circles with her tail between her legs and/or being very restless. Spoke with Darwins’ but they said they haven’t heard of this. has anyone experienced this? So far I have been only giving her commercial raw, except for yesterday when I gave her a piece of raw turkey wing (which she enjoyed and chewed up pretty well). Yesterday about 3 hours after eating the turkey wing she did regurgitate with much of the turkey looking undigested (she re-ate it). She then seemed fine. After playing for a bit and taking a nap she seemed very hungry so gave her a handful of kibble (Acana). About another 2-3 hours after, she threw up agin–mostly partially digested kibble. She was good the rest of the night (slept through until morning). Fed her kibble this morning and she was good most of the day. Fed her some more raw (Darwins chicken at lunch) got a bit hyper again but was good most of the rest of the day until after dinner–which was some more Darwins and a bit of Allprovide. Again shortly after eating she got very hyper, racing around the yard picking up sticks, etc.

So, is this normal? Am I transitioning her too quickly? is the hyper ness possibly an upset stomach (she sometimes seems to run and sit quickly–once and a while dragging her butt a bit (has been dewormed plus saw a tapeworm before i stated the raw and she was dewormed for that as well).

Also, since we’ve had her she has been a bit itchy/biting around the base of her tail and back legs, although the vet could not find any fleas and didn’t think it should be any more worms. Since starting the raw nothing has really changed with the itching (I realize it is kind of soon to expect any change in that–just bringing it up in case it’s a sign of something else).

Anyway, anyone have any thoughts. Not while I’m writing this, she has been panting a bit heavily and looked like she was going to vomit again although nothing happened.

Thanks

Jeff

[Susan]

Hi Anand.
I just click on your “Drools Focus” link & it looks pretty good, it tells you how much raw protein is in the food 40%, normally pet foods never write how much meat protein % is in their formula cause of the plant proteins like Chickpeas, Lentils they also up the protein %…. People don’t reliese ingredient list are written when the ingredients are raw, so after ingredients are cooked they move into different positions on the ingredient list…
Just make sure you rotate between a few different brands that have different meat proteins & ingredients so your boy eats different ingredients & he’s not just eating the same brand 24/7, rotating kibbles & foods strengthens the immune system & reduces the risk of allergies & other symptoms developing later on, also some kibble/brands are very high in toxins as we are learning, there’s no testing in pet foods for toxins…. Google “Toxins & Contaminates in Pet Foods”.

[Anand B]

I have a 2 month old lab. Ever since i got her i have been researching dog food. I used to think Pedigree being popular must be great. Turns out its one of the worst. Intitially i got Royal Canin Maxi Puppy but on reading that its not much better i switched to a local brand Drools and their premium range (Focus) as their ingredients look pretty good. Since its not reviewed here would like opinion about it.

Ingredients: Drools Focus Puppy
Raw Material:- Real Chicken(>40%), Whole Dried Eggs, Long Grain Rice, Oatmeal, Flax Seed Oil, Sunflower Oil, Fish Oil, lecithin, salt, Beet Pulp. Vitamins:- Vit A: 22000 IU, Vit D3: 1500 IU, Vit E: 250 Mg, Vit C: 150 Mg, B1: 8 Mg, B2: 22 Mg, B6: 11 Mg, Choline: 2500 mg, folic acid- 2 Mg,Beta-carotene-50mg and Others: Natural Antioxidants (Rosemary Extract),L Cranitine, Probiotics and Prebiotics,Essential Amino Acid , Organic mineral.