[Melissaandcrew]

Btw Erin-Check out Dogaware.com for the articles on pancreatitis. Interestingly enough, it states that research has shown that LOW PROTEIN diets can PREDISPOSE dogs to pancreatitis. I love the dog aware site-lots of info on diets for many health conditions, feeding raw etc.

[Melissaandcrew]

Hi Sue-

I think you have misunderstood my post. As a mini schnauzer owner of well over 25 yrs, I am well aware of schnauzers, pancreatitis, and hyperlipidemia. I have never had a schnauzer who has needed restricted protein due to either of those conditions. I am not sure what you are referencing(study perhaps) that says dogs with chronic pancreatitis require lower protein, and I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Fat must be watched for schnauzers in general, and yes, its more important with those that have had a previous flare up, but levels of ANYTHING tolerated vary widely from dog to dog.

My dogs routinely live to be 16 plus years of age, so no, I have not “gotten lucky”. Its skill and knowledge, and access to state of the art vet care that they live so long. Its pretty ballsy to comment about someone else’s dog’s medical condition and what “might have occurred” without knowing the full facts of the dog. In Meg’s case, she had lupus as well as pancreatitis, which flared up when company would let her get ANYTHING even slightly fatty/greasy-ie meat trimmings, chips etc. One small item of forbidden food, and it was off and running. And yet, all blood work was COMPLETELY normal in between. Please do not think to lecture me on how I possibly could have prevented my deceased dogs medical condition. For the record, she died of LYMPHOMA with a 2 yr quality filled life after diagnosis which is typically unheard of.

Erin-I would not feed a food so low as 22 percent protein. Owning so many of our own schnauzers over the years, as well as dealing with pancreatitis dogs in the vet hospital I worked at, as well as running a rescue specializing in schnauzers, I can only tell you what works for us and the dogs in our care. IF protein were an issue, all my dogs would now be dead as they eat primarily a raw diet, as well as kibble that are all over 33% protein. My oldest are 14,14,15 and 16 yrs. All alive, healthy with perfectly normal blood work confirmed with recent testing. Take all the info every one offers, consult your vet and make a decision that you are comfortable with since you know your dog best. Good luck!

[Bobby dog]

Hi Liz:
I like Wellness products; both my dog and cats do very well on both their kibble and canned.

She might be a picky eater, but I wouldn’t be concerned with the kibble she likes. Many picky eaters will not eat anything consistently which in turn affects their health. Knowing she has a food she eats consistently and does well on will gives you an opportunity to look for other foods she might like to add to her menu.

You have listed several kibbles that you have tried and one you are looking at. If I had a picky eater I would reduce the amount of kibble and add a topper to each meal to hopefully entice them to eat other foods. I don’t have a picky eater, but I believe in using a topper for each meal to reduce the amount of kibble I feed and add a more healthy species appropriate food to his diet.

Check out Freshpet; my dog loves this food. It is a cooked food that is refrigerated and sold in plastic wrapped tubes (slice and serve) or pouches (small, soft kibble form). Many pet and grocery store chains carry it. It is rated very well on DFA:
/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-vital-complete-meals/
/dog-food-reviews/vital-dog-food/
/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-select-slice-serve/
/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-select-roasted-meals/

I feed a rotational diet of kibble topped with, commercial freeze dried/dehydrated/frozen raw, canned, or lightly cooked fresh meats for each meal. I change the animal protein, carb source, and brand of kibble every month; toppers every day or two. Rotational feeding also ensures my dog will have no issues switching foods when a dog food recipe inevitably changes; they always do. I can just move onto a food he has done well on in the past if any digestive issues occur. Good luck with your pup!

[Kritterlady]

4FootedFoodie, thank you for the update. The person I talked to from corporate told me they have taken over the facilities due to the rapid growth of the product while building their own facilities. This would qualify as a copacker though they are making only food for Blue Buffalo according to their standards. That being said, I feed 80% raw and 20% rotation diet between several of the 5 star brands Blue Wilderness included. It’s easily accessible at Petsmart and petcos in my area and the price is within reach.

[pugmomsandy]

http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html

http://www.thewholedog.org/artcookedfood.html

“Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs” by Lew Olsen

“The BARF Diet” by Dr Billinghurst

“Raw Meaty Bones” and “Work Wonders Feed Your Dog Raw Meaty Bones” by Dr Tom Lonsdale

“Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr Karen Becker/Beth Taylor has easy recipes and includes puppies.

[InkedMarie]

Since frenchies are known for allergies, a raw diet would be perfect!

[pugmomsandy]

Try chicken feet or pork ribs or calf ribs. GreenTripe dot com sells calf ribs. Lamb chops have soft bones too but are a bit costly. Some dogs who are on raw diets and eat RMB still get plaque buildup. Could just be genetics. I’ve also heard from other raw feeders that only feed ground raw that their dogs teeth stay clean. The raw enzymes in the food help to keep the teeth clean.

[tracy z]

I have a 9lbs toy poodle who just started on a raw diet. I give him raw chicken necks for his source of raw meaty bones. However, if I don’t cut them into smaller pieces (small enough to fit in his mouth but he would still have to chew on it) then he would refuse to eat them. He would just nibble on it and then drop it on the floor and stare at me. Would this still give him the dental benefit he needs from chewing on the bones? Or should I leave them un-cut and just let him work it?

Also, other than chicken necks, what are other good raw meaty bones I can give him that’s appropriate for his size?

Thanks!

[Sandra R]

I have a two months old french bulldog and I’m feeding her for now Acana for puppies. For now she is doing Ok, but I would like to know about your opinion about rotation diet and how to do it
And if i can give her a raw diet or should I wait until she is an adult? What is the best dry food for French bulldog puppies?
Thank you so much for your help.

[Akari_32]

I decided to use the Applaws as a full meal, rather than throwing a tub in here and there. So I went out and bought 24 cans of Friskies Special Diet and Senior Diet (my previously scoped out flavors however many pages back). I tried to get away with not having to buy more cat food, but there was too much Applaws for me to feel comfortable with not adding more food that was balanced. So my 26 days of food turned into 40 days of food after the Friskies and Applaws was added lol You guys should have seen all that cat food sprawled across the floor as I tried to fit everything evenly into my rotation.

He’s on a 10 day rotation (not including different flavors):

Ideal Balance or Sheba
Applaws
Wellness
Authority Flaked Turkey
Friskies
Wellness
Applaws
Friskies
Authority Flaked Turkey
Friskies

Because of stacking difficulties with the Applaws tubs and Sheba and Ideal Balance 3 oz cans, I couldn’t really spread the Friskies out as much as I would have liked, but as soon as Wellness goes on sale again (which shouldn’t be long, I would think), I’ll be buying more, so it’ll do for now. The cats fed, and that’s all that matters lol

[Akari_32]

Oh, so I had an idea! When I’m feeding Bentley a meal with a bone, but I also want to feed the mix (since a lot of the chicken I portioned out has bone in it), what if I made the mix in a little bit of fat free, plain yogurt? Extra protein, probiotics, gets enough mix to keep his diet balanced. And every other week or so I could do the same in a raw egg? What do you guys think?

[Melissaandcrew]

Hi Erin- I just googled the dry food you feed, and on line it says it is only 12% fat..which is very low and should be fine. When giving beef or chicken, if not feeding raw. be sure to BOIL it, then drain well./.use 95% lean beef. My crew has less problems with beef when it is fed raw, but that is them. Eggs should be hard boiled, and my schnauzers get 1/2 of large egg each. no more than 2 twice a week. Anything more, and stomach issues. I do give them low fat shredded cheese on occasion, but more often I give them a dash of low fat kefir, or low fat/fat free yogurt. If it were my dog, I would feed a bland diet for a week, and then start the dry back..slowly over a week. . No “additives/toppers” for a few weeks. I am betting the cheese just built up her triglycerides and it was a matter of time.

[Erin R]

We haven’t introduced anything new to her, food wise, and i don’t give her pig ears or bones or rawhide or anything edible like that. The only thing she OCCASIONALLY gets with her kibble is chicken, beef, boiled egg, etc. I’ve never given her wet food. I have been sprinkling shredded cheese on her breakfast (i’ve been doing that for a while now) so she would eat before i go into work… but i guess cheese isn’t good for pancreatitis so she won’t be getting that any more!

But she was in to the vet about two weeks ago for a mild back sprain. Then when she recovered from that, her annual vaccinations. So i guess that was pretty stressful and could have upset her stomach? Thats the only thing we can think of, anyway, plus maybe the cheese and her being part Schnauzer.

Her current food is 15% fat, should i try to find a lower fat kibble? I am hesitant to talk to the vet about food/diet because i’ve only ever been suggested things like Science Diet, Royal Canin, and foods with grains/corn despite telling them of grain/corn allergy. She does have a follow up appointment on Friday so i guess i can ask, then, but i want other opinions and maybe some suggestions on foods to look into.

Thanks!

PS – i never knew that Schnauzers where prone to pancreatitis. Now i do.

[Oceans11]

I have posted under this topic before but haven’t found anything that works. My one year old Malagasy Coton De Tulear is a picky eater. I have tried Basic Instinct Raw, Fresh Pet, various 5 star canned foods including Tripett, Orijen dry puppy kibble., Fromm Gold kibble, Blue Wilderness. What he will eat on a consistent basis is rotisserie chicken which probably isn’t healthy. We have tried giving him raw ground round and raw steak. All he wants to do is bury it. I have supplements that I try to give him hidden in his food but one whiff and he walks away (supplements: Angel Eyes, Grizzly Salmon Oil, probiotic, and Vitamin supplement). I am concerned that he is not getting any of these supplements or more importantly a nutritious diet. Because he doesn’t eat much on a routine basis, we have all too often shared what we are eating. I don’t believe he is underweight. I would appreciate any suggestions and/or advice anyone could share. Thanks much!

[Michael B]

Vital Essentials has no website and I can’t find any information about how it is handled or the origin of its products. I am beginning to not trust the company and will switch raw diet brands to Stella & Chewy’s.

[Dawn R]

Hi Terri,
I’ve got two pugs (brindle and fawn) that are 5 and 6 years old and have suffered from both food allergies/sensitivities and seasonal items for years. I’m had them on raw diets for the past 3 to 4 years and fed kibble prior to that. I’ve tried just about every medicated shampoo, supplements, probiotics/enzymes and testing that is out there including taking them to a vet dermatologist. In the early years the boys had been on antibiotics and steroids until I decided to pursue a more holistic program with them. The most informative testing that I did that helped get me started down the right path was with a company called Glacier Peak Hollistics. They have a Healthy Dog Sensitivity Assessment that costs $80.00 which is a hair and saliva test. You submit hair back to them as well as swabs and it gives you a really extensive report back. You get results back fairly quick and then can make decisions on food proteins you should eliminate from their diet, or allergies to ingredients. I’ve done the more traditional IgE and IGg testing on them and paid close to $250.00 for testing and the results didn’t come close to the holistic testing.

[InkedMarie]

Barbara: that’s easy! Feed a raw diet, a canned diet or, if you must feed dry, add canned and warm water to the dry.

[Dori]

LOL Cyndi. I was going to jump in on the amount of food you first mentioned. When I first read your post I thought. That’s a heck of a lot of food. That can’t possibly be right. Then GizmoMom jumped in.

Akari. From all that I know about pork, you absolutely have to freeze it a minimum of 2 weeks (longer probably better) to rid it of any parasites. Very important. Even if you buy it frozen at the store you still need to freeze it at home because you have no idea how long they froze the pork. I’ve got a 5 lb. Yorkipoo, a 6 lb. Maltipoo and a 7 lb. Maltese. They each get 1/4 cup of raw diet twice a day. Two to three times a week I split a small can (grocery store tuna fish aisle) of sardines in water to their meals. I don’t give them eggs because my Maltipoo is intolerant to any and all things poultry. On days that I do not give them sardines added to their meal I give them once a day a little squirt of Sardine Oil which I keep in the refrigerator on top of their meal. I use Nature’s Logic. I like the company and trust them. I also give them two or three times a week once a day only maybe about 1/8 tsp. (maybe a little less) of coconut oil. I just put it on their food and they eat it. I don’t give them more than that with the coconut oil because their poops will immediately get kind of soft, dark and gooey (sp?). Sorry for that poop description but that’s the only way I know of explaining it. Just in case it happens to you. I don’t think any of my gals digest the coconut oil too well. I have to say that sometimes weeks go by that I don’t bother with the coconut oil. I don’t see that it helps them one way or the other. I have tried the coconut chips that are sold but they come out looking exactly the same way they went in. White coconut chips in and out.

Oh! I forgot to mention that I feed commercial raw diets. I don’t feed any poultry whatsoever. Remember no bones that contain marrow. Way to fatty is the marrow. Beef ribs with a bit of meat (not a lot) are fine. If he actually eats the bone then you don’t need to also feed the meal. If he just chews the bone for entertainment value then, yes, feed the meal. Mine just think they’re toys. Will chew for a bit and then leave them laying around. The only dehydrated food that I feed (haven’t for a while) is The Honest Kitchen Zeal. The Zeal formula is because Katie (Maltipoo is intolerant of all things poultry. I don’t feed anything with potatoes in it. I had to stop feeding THK because of the alfalfa (again, Katie’s issues with alfalfa). They have started producing the Zeal without the alfalfa but are still trying to clear out their old stock and also their old boxes. Until their web site ingredient list does not include the alfalfa and the boxes do not say alfalfa then I’ll wait them out. I will go back to the Zeal at that time. OK. Sorry for such a long post. Anything else I can help with just ask, if not me, then someone else. Hey also I’ve been thinking for the longest time that you should change your name to The Coupon Lady or just Coupon Lady. Anyway anytime I see your name I always think…Oh? It’s the coupon lady. LOL!

[Akari_32]

As some of you guys may know, my moms dog Bentley, a 7 pound jack russell/maltese mix, has a terrible time with yeast infections on his skin, mainly his back half, and all four paws. I finally decided it wasn’t a food allergy, but a seasonal allergy (and every season in FL is allergy season) after trying nearly every dry food on the shelf here, and put him on By Nature 95% canned, which we have to order online every three weeks. And even then, he needs a whole can (he is extremely active and has a high metabolism), but we manage to get by with 3/4 of a can one day, and then 1/4 of a can the next with 1/4 cup (dry measured) of a THK grain free complete mix, and that keeps his weight up well enough. If I didn’t happen to have a couple sample boxes of THK, I don’t know what I’d do! Anyway, his fur is growing back, he’s overall much better, but I still feel like he needs a bit more of a better diet to push his recovery into the right direction.

I’m wanting to do a pre-mix, and have it narrowed down to Urban Wolf and See Spot Live Longer. But I have issues with both. My only issue with UW is the price! I coupon for my dog food, and there is definitely some major sticker shock going on there. I need to know how much food the whole bag would make, and about how long it would last him before I can really pick this one or not. Then theres SSLL. The price is great, as just $17 a 1lb bag. Each bag claims to make 26lb of food, but there are no feeding guidelines or preparation instructions on the website! And the owner of the site doesn’t seem to have all his ducks in a row, either, from what I hear. But the priiiiiice! Its so affordable sounding! I’d love to hear your all’s thoughts on these mixes, and I’d also like to know of any other low carb, and no/minimal sweet potato and carrot mixes out there (Grandma Lucy’s and Sojo’s are out– not high enough calories).

I was also wondering, at his size, how often, and how much, should I offer eggs and sardines? And what brand of sardines do you guys use?

As for proteins, pork and chicken are very high up on the contenders list. Ground pork is just $2.49 a pound, and most pieces of chicken are $1.99 a pound and less. What are your guy’s thoughts on pork as a decent chunk of the dogs diet? I hear such mixed things about pork in general for dogs, but he sure does love a good country rib! And about the chicken, I hear many people like to use dark meat chicken because of the fat content. This sounds great to me because its *cheap*, thighs in particular being just $1.49 a pound. Is this correct? He can certainly use any extra fat he can get (him and cat are running around the house like lunatics right now, even!).

I also want you guys to ok my “staple” meat choices:
Chicken Thighs
Chicken Gizzards
Chicken Livers
Chicken Necks
Chicken Backs
Chicken Wings
Turkey Livers
Turkey Gizzards
Turkey Necks
Turkey Backs
Turkey Wings
Beef Heart
Beef Liver
Country Ribs
Ground Pork

There are more, but I can’t think of them. And then I will also throw in whatever’s on a good sale at the time. Beef is expensive, so it’ll be mostly turkey, chicken, pork (given what ever you guys say about the pork) and beef parts. He doesn’t like fish, so thats not going to be anything I’ll force on him, other than the occasional sardine for his skin and coat. And I know liver shouldn’t be a very large part of the diet. They aren’t sold in very big packages, anyways lol (and some pre-mixes call for them?)

My last question for now, when I want to offer a protein with bone in it (RMB), could I feed him the pre-mix prepared with no meat (separated out during prep before meat is added), and then give him the RMB? Or could I just give the RMB as the meal and forget the pre-mix (but how often can I do that?)? Or I could remove all the meat from the bone, and give him just the bone as a munchy treat. Given his mushy diet, I would really like to make sure he gets enough to chew on. My plan is to make his meals for one to two weeks ahead on a weekend, and then freeze them all in a planned out sort of manner, and mark out his meals by day. That way I can make sure he gets the right amount of sardines and egg, and gets a good rotation of meat.

That’ll do for now, i think. I’m just in the planning stages, so I’m open to any suggestions, change in plans, tips, whatever. Thanks! 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

The reasons for adding a quality canned food: add moisture to the diet, quality canned foods have a good amount of protein since they don’t need carbohydrate binders like kibble, it’s easier to digest since it’s not hard and dry like kibble, they don’t have preservatives in them, and it’s easy to mix in powdered supplements. Canned foods are more species-appropriate than dry pellets.

Drawbacks: softer stool sometimes and the canned foods usually don’t include probiotics. They might have prebiotics like inulin/chicory root.

You don’t have to stick with the same brand of wet as you are using dry. Use various brands and feed a rotaional diet.

[aquariangt]

Those allergy tests can be sketchy. If you got another one run then you would most likely get different results. I second the suggestion of an elimination diet, and use small bags and try out some LIDs to figure out what’s working. Or homemade/raw

[DogFoodie]

I’m not quite sure how I feel about those test results.

For example, in the green column it lists “fish,” herring/anchovy and salmon, but in the red column it lists “fish meal,” ocean whitefish and tuna as well as salmon oil.

I’d be curious to know how you did the elimination diet and what you foods you fed. Did any of them work?

I know how frustrating ear issues are and getting the food intolerances figured out can be even more frustrating. I know it wouldn’t stop the cycle and obviously, you’re doing the right thing trying to figure out the cause, but have you tried Zymox to keep it at bay somewhat? Works like magic.

I think I’d also try raw if I were you. I’m fortunate that I could find a couple of kibbles that worked and I do have to top them to keep mine interested because raw was going to be too cost prohibitive for me as I use commercial raw foods. I didn’t see whole ground turkey at My Pet Carnivore, but you might find another protein you could use: https://mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?lang=en

[Stewart]

One of my dogs does the Preference and loves it but he loves everything. He has IBD, allergies, and is sensitive to bone found in all the frozen raw commercial diets. This brand really works for us. He tried almost all the flavors(before we allergy tested) and he does best with the Preference w/ raw meat or Zeal.

I think THK is a great food for dogs that are sensitive or picky. But I dont feel like the complete diets are that much better compared to a good kibble….I mean if I had a dog that had no issues,was completely healthy, wasnt picky and I couldn’t afford a balanced homemade I dont think I would give him a commercial dehydrated food w/steamed meats over a good kibble. They are both cooked (yes you save a bit of nutrients).To me the cost doesn’t seem worth it. Saying that I do love the pre-mix with raw meat because it works for my sensitive guy.

Maybe make your own food like before but get a good balanced recipe!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Stewart.

[DogFoodie]

What about The Honest Kitchen’s new base mix Kindly, to which, you add your own fresh meat? THK actually has six grain free recipes now. I’ve tried Farmina and liked it ~ I found it to be budget friendly as well. Nature’s Logic isn’t grain free as it contains the pseudo grain, millet; but, it’s a great food.

If you haven’t already, you could take a look at Susan Thixton’s site. There are several companies that have signed her “Pledge.” “The Pledge” is a manufacturer’s statement of quality and origin of ingredients. I cannot say for certain (without going through each brand on the list) that all of those who have signed The Pledge are China Free; however, there is a specific column on the document where the manufacturer must indicate whether or not China is the country of origin for each ingredient. There aren’t a lot of foods on the list. There aren’t many kibbles. Some of the foods are frozen, raw diets that can only be shipped to certain locations, etc.; but, it’s a place to start and if nothing else, it’s interesting.

This link is to The Pledge, specifically: http://associationfortruthinpetfood.com/the-pledge/

Here’s another link to Susan’s regular site: http://truthaboutpetfood.com/

[Eric H]

Wow! Vigorous conversation!
I must say, I am never surprised by how passionate pet lovers are about their information and beliefs; I know we ALL strive to do the best we can for our beloved animals and any suggestion by anyone that we might not be doing it “perfectly” can be difficult to digest (pun-in-context intended…) I am confident we are all doing the best we can, which should always include being receptive to the input of others – not as insult or criticism, but as another option we may choose to consider and discard or adopt as we feel appropriate.

So having said that, thank you for the raft of input!!
LabsRawesome – Dehydrated fat free meats – I will look into that some more. You prompted some pretty animated discussion on that topic, I will check it out and see if it could apply to Otis.
somebodysme – Otis gets the following exercise: 1h walk/day, plus combination of some or all of: extended backyard ball chasing (loves chasing/returning a ball), repeated toy chasing inside including up/down stairs at times. He always seems satisfied and tired at the end of any of these, so we are hopeful he is getting enough of a total workout on a daily/weekly basis. Smaller treats is another option – at the moment he gets enough to let him chew for a few minutes (iei 1 baby carrot, 1 small flower stalk of cauliflower). Very food motivated, and would eat treats continuously until he passed out I think, regardless of size! ha.
Dori – High Carbs, yes we had no idea of the sugar/carb contents of *veggies* (foreign concept, thinking veggies were harmless as many human diet plans allow “unlimited fruits / veggies”. “oosp.” We got a USDA list of some 1,000 different foods, catalogued them by Sugar, Cal, and Fat and found a new short-list of options which include many of what you suggested, thanks! We will start by substituting his sweet potato with turnip for example and cutting back on carrots (still good for teeth…just less of them). Otis gets strictly 2 small formal meals per day, total 1cup per day + treats.
sue66b – Pancreatitis, IBD, and skin issues? Ouch! Poor guy. Our Otis had significant skin issues also (like crutsy awful human eczema patches) but disappeared when we switched foods! Very rare small flare-ups (likely from external contact sources) are treated with some polysporin ointment for 1 or 2 days and it goes away. Banana and rice cakes! Bananas might work but sugar is higher than the short-list I will be trying for now (12.2g/100g USDA), might try use banana as an occasional option. Tuna might be another option – I only scanned veggies and fruit, so I don’t have the tuna numbers, I will look that up, thanks!
aimee – Yes, we really thought we’d lose him before we found a safe diet…it was a pretty stressful time back then!! Your history suggestion is good, I think we’ll try to take note of just how many “treats” he is getting compared to 10% intake – when they are small bites you forget what they add up to over the day.

Thanks everyone for their contributions and continued pet-passion!
-e

[USA]

Hi aimee

You wrote:

“Experimentally compounds that mimic the hormone CCK result in pancreatitis. In these studies high amounts are given.”

From the book you referenced: “Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 2012”. Caps added by me:

“EXPERIMENTAL PANCREATITIS can be initiated by HYPERSTIMULATION with CCK ANALOGS (Morita et al. 1998; Saluja et al. 2007), BUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE MECHANISMS IN SPONTANEOUS DISEASE IS UNKNOWN.”

The book says they used CCK ANALOGS, NOT CCK and that HYPERSTIMULATION was induced. This is different than the CCK released during a high protein and/or high fat meal eaten by a dog! And the book also says “THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE MECHANISMS IN SPONTANEOUS DISEASE IS UNKNOWN.” So the book admits that they don’t know the importance of their findings for dogs who get pancreatitis in the real world and not from hyperstimulation of the pancreas with CCK analogs in the lab!

You also wrote:

“The most potent dietary stimulation of CCK is fat. Protein though also stimulates CCK release.”

What the book actually says is: (caps added by me)

In dogs, fatty acids (Sun et al. 1992), amino acids, and peptides stimulate CCK release, BUT INTACT PROTEINS DO NOT (Meyer and Kelly 1976).

What are the intact proteins the book references? Are they the proteins in a raw or lightly cooked fresh homemade diet of lean meats, poultry and fish?

[Susan]

THANK-YOU Aimee, my vet did exlpained why Patch cant have liver treats, but I was so stressed at the time & cant remember that day too well, yes Patch can’t have a high protein diet either..Aimee what are you feeding ur dog that has Pancreatitis, I’m running out of foods to try for breakfast…I thought I had found the Tuna & pumkin for his breakfast, he’s been on the tuna since June & was doing real well but now he’s having his pain again & whinging after his breakfast these last 2 weeks…if I give him his kibble for breakfast or boiled chicken breast & pumkin he has his pain, I dont know what to give for breakfast no more, Maybe Patch just cant eat breakfast, he seems fine after eating kibble for lunch & dinner…I was going to try Rolled oats..Vet did want me to try Prednisone but I’ve been trying everthing possible before I try him on the Steriods.. Patch also has bad stomach reflux & acid always burping after eating & I thought the steroids will make things worse….Ive read on the Yahoo group “Dogpancreatitis” a few dogs are doing really well on the Vet prescription diet Royal Canin Low Fat kibble as the fat% is 7%….. Patch is on Vet Diet Eukanuba Intestinal its 10% fat & about 1 month ago I started introducing the Wellness Simple Duck & Oatmeal kibble the fat is 11.98%, I’m adding 1/2 the Simple & 1/2 the Intestinal for lunch & dinner at the moment, maybe that has started Patches pain again…. I dont know no more…its an awful disease…
Eric if your reading, did you ever give Otis any cooked meats, I read that the raw didnt work, my vet said NO RAW, thats was 1 thing I can remember Lol….I mite look up the Hills I/d GI restore, I bet we dont have that one in Australia alot of the Hills foods were cut back

[aimee]

Hi Dori and LabsRawsome,

Experimentally compounds that mimic the hormone CCK result in pancreatitis. In these studies high amounts are given. The most potent dietary stimulation of CCK is fat. Protein though also stimulates CCK release.

From the table in Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 2012 on foods to avoid with chronic pancreatitis “Dry meat treats ( jerky)” The text also cautions against feeding diets very high in protein to patients with a history of pancreatitis.

Hope this helps explain why Patch doesn’t do well with jerky treats.

[Michelle D]

Wow, I totally meant Darwin’s. Should have reread better.
I will definitely talk to my vet about taking him off raw. I was just wondering because Darwin’s has a kidney diet now. Thanks

[Michelle D]

I am interested in getting this raw diet. I have a few dogs and one has kidney issues. They offer a prescription section. Is this a high quality raw food ? Any issues or concerns.

[Eric H]

Hello – Long time lurker to this fantastic site and forum members, finally time to post and ask for input!

Our 10 second intros:
The Pooch: “Otis,” 25+lb, 7yr old happy active male neutered mini-Schnoodle (14.5″ withers) unfortunately with severe pancreas issues and epilepsy (controlled by daily phenobarbital).

The current food: 1/2c x 2 per day = 1 cup / day of Hills I/D GI Restore – the ONLY food we have found, after trying MANY options including raw and alternative pancreas-safe home-brews, which doesn’t send him to the hospital for 24-48hrs at $500+ a crack. Ouch. We actually thought he would die before we found something he could eat. This is the *only* food so far which has kept him out of the hospital >1yr and counting! [knock on wood]. Note this is about HALF his recommended amount, as we were previously already trying to keep his weight down – it isn’t working!

The current treats: Carrots and Cauliflower (can’t eat fat, remember?), Watermelon, dried sweet-potato/yam slices. He gets his pill (twice a day) in a small cube of cooked sweet potato which works out to 1 full sweet potato per week. That’s about it.

Ok. So.
The reason for interrupting you all!
He is currently a little pork-chop pushing 26 lbs and should be closer to 20-25ish despite eating the above “low fat” diet (so he doesn’t die from pancreatitis) and ZERO extras other than a large contingent of veggies and his beloved sweet-potato. Then I lurk on this site to try to figure out why he is still gaining so much weight… CARBS + SUGARS!? Oh fer cryin out loud! Carrots, one of his favourites, high in carbs. Who knew.

So the question is: What the heck do I feed the poor guy so he doesn’t die from either pancreatitis or complications of being overweight!

The current plan: Get a list of low-carb low-sugar veggies and try to stay low on both for his “treats,” as the food itself “ain’t broke so don’t touch it,” as any guesswork in that department could have serious complications.

Thoughts?
Thanks!
-e

[corky b]

Hi All,
My 9 yrs old border collie was just diagnosed with DI which apparently is a very rare thing. Med school are $700 per month. No way I can do that. Changing up her diet to reduce the sodium. Just bought raw frozen beef and small bag of sojourn mix. At this point I’m so confused at t he whole raw thing. What’s the best most economical way to get her a good low sodium diet? Anyone know?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Akari-
According to Steve Brown (SSLL), it is the egg whites that can interfere with the body’s ability to absorb the biotin in the yolks if not lightly cooked. But that is only if feeding many raw eggs or feeding more whites than yolks. He recommends lightly cooking while keeping yolks in tact. Dogs Naturally magazine recommends feeding them raw to avoid ruining the good stuff in the egg whites. They say that there is enough Biotin in the diet to not worry about it. So, who knows? You just have to go with your gut on this one! 🙂 But you are right, you’d probably only want to feed a dog that small one every other week or so.
How is the hunt for the perfect premix going?

[Bobby dog]

Hey Akari:
I hope your mom appreciates your dedication to Bentley!

I second C4c’s vote for eggs. Although I initially used them to help with the healing process, Bobby still gets one poached egg a week; he won’t eat raw egg anymore. His skin and coat is in great shape.

I haven’t posted the ink info yet because I have forgotten where I put the files with the info on my computer. I think I will just post the info that my Professor relayed to me to use as a guide when buying generic cartridges from memory; that could be scary. lol

I was just working on my pet food grocery list and saw your post in my e-mail. You would be proud, I have a $5 off entire purchase that expires tomorrow and a free dog toy with $15 purchase coupon (and various others) I don’t want to waste so I thought I better get organized.

There are some Pro Plan recipes that seem to only come in the 5.5 oz. the rest are regular size cans; or at least I haven’t seen them in larger cans, but I haven’t really looked.

THK was okay, but I don’t think I will purchase any of their products at this time. Bobby liked them the first few feedings, now not so much. There was also a fabulous pro/con discussion regarding the food on one of the THK reviews that was very interesting! I don’t really have any comment on their pre-mix because I haven’t looked at it and I don’t know of anybody who has fed it.

I really have not done any in-depth research on making food for Bobby. I would try to feed lean, organic meat if I was making his meals, but never looked any further as to what type of proteins would be best for him. At this time if I were to purchase a pre-mix it would probably be See Spot Live Longer or Urban Wolf. I think C4c just purchased SSLL so you will be able to get a first hand review if you are interested. I don’t have the time to research the subject properly so I bookmarked some sites when I do. Here’s a link to some pre-mix info:

http://dogaware.com/diet/dogfoodmixes.html

[Akari_32]

Just a little update 🙂

Hair is growing back pretty well, and he’s starting to keep on weight. I think I’ve finally balanced his diet out in a way that has him eating minimally, while still getting the calories he needs.

I’m having trouble finding the Pro Plan I want. I have a few more places to check though. Apparently, they are 5.5 oz cans? Does that sound like what you get, Bobby Dog? And I have some more looking in to for the Nutro Ultra.

I was thinking of getting him a pre-mix, like THK’s new ones, and using pork for the protein. It’s cheap, but it’s still raw. But I’ve heard some different things about how digestible pork is and isn’t, so I’d like to see what you guys have to say about that first.

[WestCoastGSD]

Since starting a premixed raw diet that is complete and balanced, my dogs not only have no gas to speak of, but their poop literally does not stink, unless you jammed it in your face of course. Stools are smaller and much firmer due to the fact that your dog’s body is able to absorb more of the nutrients in his food, therefore less waste. I am feeding multiple dogs and not a single soft stool since we made the switch, and feeding time is a madhouse as they are very excited and the food disappears rapidly. As a kibble feeder for over 20 years and someone who doesn’t even like to deal with raw meat, I finally decided to sacrifice my own squeamishness for the betterment of my dogs and am so happy to say it was well worth it! PS big yellow rubber kitchen gloves are a key ingredient in feeding a raw diet, that much I will tell you LOL!!

[WestCoastGSD]

Mike, Well it’s disappointing you are unable to put Common Sense Dog Food on your list due to the missing AAFCO labeling, but I do understand you have your rules. It is truly a great food and if you speak to the developer of the food she can probably tell you why she hasn’t done the AAFCO labeling. I know she does not really market the food at all beyond her website and her own personal clients. As the Southern California distributor now for this food I truly hope it gets to be more well known for how great it is for all life stages as it is a complete and balanced diet and has been proven over many years of feeding trials with multiple generations of dogs and over 350 litters of puppies, x-raying for joint development issues etc in the dogs that were raised on it, which is more than can be said for most “complete” raw diets out there, commercial pet foods, and for those that haphazardly try to come up with their own raw food formulation for their dogs. For years I steered my clients away from a raw diet for their growing puppies because I did not know of a good complete and correctly balanced raw diet until I found Common Sense. I didn’t want them running into developmental issues with their puppies because they were lacking in something essential, or overdoing it as both can cause harm. All this being said I understand your site has it’s rules, but if the day ever comes I would love to see Common Sense Raw Dog Food added to your list of Editor’s Choice foods. Thanks for your time. ~ Barbara DiBernardo

[matt n]

I suggest looking through the thread the others are suggesting. That’s what I’ve had to do with the absence of response to my own questions.

I might be wrong but these are the conclusions I’ve drawn for what to feed my puppy (poodle/GR mix).

A raw food diet is probably the “best”…if you have unlimited funds. For myself, I tried to find a balance of affordability, healthiness, and convenience. As a result I’ve narrowed it down to these dry foods…

Annamaet Grain-Free Aqualuk
Annamaet Grain-Free Salcha Poulet
Dr. Tim’s Kinesis
Dr. Tim’s Kinesis Grain-Free
Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch
Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast
Nature’s Variety Instinct
Victor Select
Wellness CORE Grain-Free Puppy

I’ll eventually try all of these and see which my puppy does best on. If that’s too much trial and error for you, I’d go with Dr. Tim’s Kinesis.

As far as I can tell, grain free vs grain inclusive usually only matters if your pup has issues with grains or if you’re into the “fads.”

But once again this is just my observations from perusing the forums.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by matt n.

[Bobby dog]

You are welcome and congrats on your good fortune!! At least you have a few places/foods to look at if you are ever in a pinch again!

Victor is recommended often on DFA. I have only fed a few samples of Victor to my dog which he loved. No one sells it by me so if it ever becomes available locally, I will be feeding it as part of my rotation. I feed some commercial raw as toppers and feed the ABC diet weekly and I believe your dogs will enjoy the variety. Good luck with your pups!!

[Dori]

Hi Kristin. I switched all three of my girls a bit over two years ago due to all the issues that Katie was having. At that point while I researched dog foods and her issues on line I was fortunate to come across the Dog Food Advisor and as I have mentioned more times than I can count my girls and I will be eternally grateful to Dr. Mike. Unfortunately it was Dr. Mikes loss of Penny that set him on his quest to find a better dog food his canine and we have all benefited from it. I still grieve for him, his family, and, of course, Penny. Anyone of us that has lost a dog or any other pet understands his plight. He actually did something about it that has benefited so many of us and our pets.

Anyway, your question to me, specifically, was what am I feeding Katie. I feed all three of my little girls the same exact food because I don’t want to take a chance that my “delicate flower Katie” gets into anything other than what seems to work for her. I mostly feed commercial raw foods: Primal Formulas, Answers Detailed, Stella & Chewy’s Raw Food, Darwin’s (on line delivery and auto-delivery only), Natures Variety Instinct Raw, Vital Essentials Raw. I rotate their foods between these are probably other raw foods also. I do add at times proteins that I’m preparing for my husband and myself. I add either Natures Logic Sardine oil, or canned sardine’s in water two or three times a week. On the days that I split a can of sardines in water amongst the three of them I omit the sardine oil (kept refrigerated-important to keep oils refrigerated), I add a little coconut oil to their meals once a day every day. I also give them as snacks organic fruits, veggies. I do not feed any commercial treats whatsoever. To many recalls, too many issues with gmo ingredients, too many ingredients not disclosed from China. Katie has too many food intolerances for me to feed any commercial treats. Most are bound by oatmeal, barley, or some such grain. I choose not to do that. We adopted her at the age of 9 weeks old. She was the runt of her litter and was going to be “euthanized”. Friends told me about her knowing what a complete SUCKER I am. I need to have that tattooed on my forehead. She has food and environmental issues. She has had many dental issues and at the age of 8 months old she had a severe luxating patella issue that was severe enough that she had to have surgery, water treadmill therapy, etc. etc. With all her issues she is the mushy gushiest lovey dog I have ever come across in my 65 years of age. You get what you give. The reason for my reply to you initially is that I truly believe that you have to pay it forward in this life. Some people read and study the science, I have always learned and lived from experience. Not saying that the science is wrong or that anyone that wants to go that way is wrong, not at all. It’s everyone’s choice. I choose experience. I know that Katie was a mess, completely a mess when I got her at 9 weeks. She is a fabulous dog and a real happy camper at this point. She loves everyone and everyone loves her. Anyway, Kristin C. That’s my experience with Katie. I have also thanked Dr. Mike, Sandy S., and HDM as well as anyone and everyone here on DFA for their kindness, knowledge, and love of animals. MY other two dogs that have had no issues concerning diet whatsoever, Hannah my 15 year old Maltese, and Lola my 5 year old Yorkipoo but have benefited exponentially from everyone here on DFA. That’s what I’ve learned from my fellow posters and that’s what I’ve tried to “pay it forward”. Gotta go now. My husband is yearning for some “Cold Stone” ice cream. He has macular degeneration and can no longer drive so I reap the benefits from his ice cream urges. Hot Fudge sundae for me. I hear it calling my name.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

Hi Aimee. I have read that brief before when I was having so many issues with Katie. As far as the other parts of my reply to Kristin C., I stated that it was in my humble opinion. I didn’t state it as a fact, only my years of experience with Katie. I do believe Kristin’s dogs vet is mistaken when he told her he did not believe the issue was diet related. I do believe it’s diet related. I had similar issue with one of my dogs and I explained how I solved the problem.

I don’t want this to wind up some long drawn out debate. Again I stated it was my opinion, not anyone else’s just mine and my experiences with a dog who suffers from food intolerances and allergies. Just passing Katie’s experience along.

[aimee]

Hi Dori,

Perhaps this can help you understand why a vet may choose to put a dog with an unknown skin eruption/rash on antibiotics. http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/sites/default/files/8.27.pdf

This is a diagnostic tree for skin eruptions written by a board certified veterinary dermatologist. Note that the first diagnostic steps all converge on doing an antibiotic trial. The response to antibiotics is then used to guide further tests and help rule in/rule out other causes. Certainly we don’t have all the information involved in the vets decision to use antibiotic but I wouldn’t fault this vet in any way for choosing to recommend them.

Also the OP said the vet did not think it was diet ( I saw you posted you think it is “IMHO your vet is mistaken. It is the diet” not sure that is what you meant to say) but recommended a nutritional consult. In my mind this is a very reasonable recommendation. The vet herself/himself doesn’t have the databases, time, nor expertise to ensure this dog’s needs are being met. In that case it is reasonable to recommend the owner to consult with someone who can evaluate well. There are some ACVN that will balance raw diets for their clients. The difficulty comes in that many food item used by raw feeders do not have nutrient profiles established for them.

[Dori]

Hi Kristen. My dog Katie (5 year old Maltipoo) used to get underarm rash also, sometimes it would look more like a grayish area also. It went away after a couple of weeks when I put her on raw diet eliminating all grains, soy, corn, white potatoes and most especially chicken, turkey, duck, quail. In other words all fowl was removed from her diet. She and my other two dogs have been on raw food diet for a little over two years. Katie has never gotten the underarm rash again. IMHO your vet is mistaken. It is the diet. I would definitely NOT spend the money on any nutritionist that does not believe in raw feeding. I figured all this out with Katie through years of trial and error. I would take away any and all grains and definitely switch out all poultry for a couple of weeks and see what happens. Never give antibiotics for allergies or an undiagnosed issue. Most traditional vets in my experience are very quick to hand out antibiotics. The only reason I would go along with giving any of my dogs antibiotics is if it was a true diagnosed issue that was an infection that needed antibiotics and that the antibiotic was specific for whatever the infection was. That was a really bad call on the part of your vet.

C4C. I think if it was laundry detergent or something on the lawn or on the property it would not be just an underarm rash, it would be on the paws, belly and other areas, don’t you think? Anyway, it’s just my opinion for whatever it’s worth.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Kristin C-
I am not a knowledgeable raw feeder by any means. However, it sounds like you are doing an amazing job! I can’t even imagine the work you put in to feeding your lucky dog! I was wondering how long your dog has been on the meds and if there has been any improvement? It seems a little early to stop what you are doing and change things up to do a nutrition consult. The rash at this point could be anything. It could be something from the grass that she came in contact with. Or, even a reaction to a new laundry soap or something. Hopefully, the problem goes away and doesn’t reoccur. If it turns in to an ongoing issue, then I think maybe a diet change should be something to think about to try and pinpoint the offending ingredient. Of course, your vet most definitely knows A LOT more than me. Good luck and keep up the good work with your pup!

[Bobby dog]

Hey guys
It’s a very, very, very rainy day here, Bobby is not happy.

Akari:
Glad you’re back!! I will post cartridge info later when I can get to my saved info for it. 🙂

Love the bowls and the pics too!!! Alec looks happy to have someone to bother.

C4c:
So jealous of your TJ’s. I have to drive so far to get to one, 🙁 but I will be going by one in the fall as you know so we can compare notes about shopping there! TJ’s is on Dr. Pierson’s list (and my Vet’s list too). I looked at reviews on YouTube and various other sites. I couldn’t find ingredient or analysis info anywhere on TJ’s website. I remember it has rice and fish in some or all recipes. It reminded me of a CSFCLS or BB quality. I am definitely going to try some out. Most reviews I read commented that it was decent quality and budget friendly to add to a rotation.

FYI for all you cat lovers, you know how I love a good PDF download. On Little Big Cat Dr. Hofve’s updated book “What Cats Should Eat” is on sale for $4.97, regularly $8.99 until 8/15. Her approved list of cat food is included which was just updated last month. The list even includes some dry, although as you know she discourages feeding dry food. Also on the approved list are commercial raw (dehydrated, freeze dried, frozen etc), foods that need supplements, treats, toppers, meal supplements, foods considered but not approved, foods that were approved and why they are no longer approved.

I haven’t had a chance to read it, just downloaded it yesterday, but the list I was happy with. I can comment that some of the foods she lists are not an option for me because of the manufacturers, but nevertheless I am glad I purchased the book because there are plently of foods listed. Some chapter topics are dry diets, wet diets, nutrition related diseases, alternative diets, and making your cat’s food at home; it’s 62 pages. Here’s the link to the bookstore on her website if you’re interested: http://www.littlebigcat.com/bookstore/

[Kristin C]

Recently took our 1 year old to the vet for an underarm rash. They gave her antibiotics and allergen pills for 2 weeks but did not identify the problem. The vet does not believe it is diet related, however she recommended we start feeding her 75% from one source and get a nutrition consult from Tufts. I feed both my dogs a combination of commercial raw (30%) homemade raw (50%) and a small amount of Orijen kibble (15%) plus raw meaty bones 1x per week. The raw is a variety of chicken, beef, duck and turkey. I did a lot of research working up to their current diet and am confused with the varying opinions out there, and now worried about the balanced nutrition. They are both energetic, glowing, and their stools are consistently as they should be. My concern with Tufts is they don’t seem to advocate raw diets and I don’t want to switch them to that much kibble. I can feed both dogs different proteins at every meal, and different brands, and they have no problems I believe because it is all high quality food. I am looking for some dialogue here from a knowledgeable raw feeder to get an opinion on my approach.

[aquariangt]

There is a sticky on one of the pages under Help and Feedback that gives directions on how to create an avatar. it’s done offsite through a website called gravatar

Graham is my name! I don’t feed raw-I do use HK and like it-but a lot of people here seem to use Steve Brown’s books as a guideline to a full on homemade diet. You can download them on Amazon or order the books there as well. From my understanding, completely homemade the most important thing is balancing, so hopefully someone like Sandy or HDM that already does this will chime in

Good luck

[Ann P]

Please don’t wait until you have scientific “proof” to sounds the alarms about the health hazards of Canola oil! You won’t easily find them–especially in relation to dogs. Unfortunately, in the scientific community–to the chagrin of many ethical scientists, money rules! Mary Enig, Ph.D, is a leading authority on lipids and was one of the first scientists to raise serious concerns about the health effects of trans-fatty acids and she was academically black-balled for it. The the power of the vegetable oil lobby did her in–at least for a time. Dr. Enig is a co-author of a cookbook entitled, “Nourishing Traditions”. In a section about fats, this is what is written about Canola oil:
“Canola Oil contains 5 percent saturated fat, 57 percent oleic acid, 23 percent omega-6 and 10-15 percent omega 3. The newest oil on the market, canola oil was developed from the rape seed, a member of the mustard family. Rape see is considered unsuited to human consumption because it contains a long-chain fatty acid called erucic acid, which under some circumstances is associated with fibrotic heart lesions. Canola oil was bred to contain little if any erucic acid and has drawn the attention of nutritionists because of its high oleic-acid content. But there are some indications that canola oil presents dangers of its own. It has a high sulphur content and goes rancid easily. Baked goods made with canola oil develop mold very quickly. During the deodorizing process, the omega-3 fatty acids of processed canola oil are transformed into TRANS fatty acids, similar to those in margarine and possibly more dangerous. A recent study indicates that “heart healthy” canola oil actually creates a deficiency of vitamin E, a vitamin required for a healthy cardiovascular system. Other studies indicate that even low erucic-acid canola oil causes heart lesions particularly when the diet is also low in saturated fat.” Here are the three studies cited (I don’t know how to italicize here–so it’s not in proper form):

Sauer, FD, et al, Nutrition Research, 1997, 17:2:259-269

Kramer, J K G, et al, Lip1982, 17:372-382;

Trenholm, H L, et al, Canadian Institute Food Science Technology Journal, 1979, 12:189-193

Between my roommate and myself, there are four dogs in our household. We have been tight on money so took pains to find the least expensive dog food of reasonable quality and grain-free for our dogs. We were directed to a new dog food that had Canola oil listed as its fourth ingredient. Our two oldest dogs got extremely sick on it (with vomiting, diarrhea and extreme lethargy) and the younger ones started getting loose stools and eating a lot of grass. Yes, yes! I know, “correlation is not causation”! But I will no longer gamble my dogs’ health on Canola oil. I may just have to get a third job! Here is an article that also cites a few studies:

http://breathing.com/articles/canola-oil.htm

It is assumed that dried dog food can be stored at room temperature. Knowing how fragile canola oil is when it comes to rancidity, just imagine how rancid it is in these dried dog foods! Please revisit the canola oil debate and warn your readers!

[DogFoodie]

I hate to say this, but I recall calling Earthborn when my Golden was a little pup and the gentleman that I spoke with told me the Calcium in the Primitive Naturals was too high for a LBP in growth phase. I don’t mind single source amino acids at all, after all, it’s why you rotate in the first place.

What stores do you have locally, Petco, PetSmart, TSC? Have you tried the Victor product locator to see if you might have that at a local feed store. No pet boutiques? You could try cooking or a simple raw diet for a few days if you needed to while you wait for an order to arrive. You could even run to Wal-Mart and feed some Pure Balance canned for a few days in a pinch.

I’d go for the Meadow Feast of all those you mentioned. I would never use a Blue Buffalo product.

[Naturella]

Amen, Kritterlady! This is basically what happened to us when we got Bruno. He was dropped off with no food, so we loaded him in the car and rushed to PetSmart where we looked around a bit (our roommate was feeding Science Diet at the time, thank goodness he finally switched to Nulo Medal Series), and we were pondering upon also feeding SD, but we spoke to a store associate and she recommended Nutro Natural Choice Small Breed Puppy (4.5 stars on DFA, but I didn’t know this at the time) – she talked about the unique shape of the kibbles and how they are meant to strengthen puppy jaws but are small enough for our little guy. We got a small bag of that, Bruno loved it, it was all good. But then I kept seeing Blue Wilderness commercials, so in a month we got him a small bag of that. He also loved it and I noticed increased shine on his coat. We bought a bigger bag and for the next 3-4 months he was on Blue, but when researching it I found DFA, and began learning tons and tons about dog nutrition. I am so happy I steered clear of SD and now Bruno is on a rotational dry diet (4-5 stars only) with canned or THK as a topper, and additives like yoghurt/kefir, coconut oil, canned sardines, flax seed meal and pumpkin every once in a while, and RMBs and raw egg once a week each. He looks fantastic, coat feels great, and I really believe that had it not been for Blue Buffalo Wilderness and me researching it, I may not have found this amazing website and learned so much. I plan to use it again in the future as Bruno seemed to have no problems on it, but it will be a while – so many other foods to try before that! 🙂